Latest / Nonprofit411 Podcast / Don’t Say No For Your Donors, Explore Planned Giving with Chris McGown | Nonprofit411 Podcast

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Don’t Say No For Your Donors, Explore Planned Giving with Chris McGown | Nonprofit411 Podcast · Nonprofit411 Podcast

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Hello and welcome to Nonprofit 411, where we dive into resources and strategies that help nonprofits not just survive, but truly thrive.
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I'm Sarah Barton, your host and fundraising advocate.
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Hello, thank you for joining us this week at Nonprofit 411.
I'm your host, Sarah Barton, and I'm joined today with Chris McGowan.
And I didn't ask you your title.
It's one of the things I usually do before we start recording.
So you'll have to introduce yourself.
I apologize.
for that oversight.
Not a problem at all.
As you said, my name is Chris McGowan.
I am the I'm a co founder and principal at Peak 9860, a firm that does fractional plan, fractional plan giving for nonprofits.
Thank you.
And I going to ask you more about that, but before we do that, I want to have a fun warmup question.
So pick a number between one and 10.
Three.
What is your favorite book and why does it resonate with you? Ooh my favorite book is, well, setting aside the Bible would be the slight edge by Jeff Olson.
And I love it because it helped, it helps me realize that what I do, every action, Is either as he puts it, either, it's either a simple act of discipline or simple error in judgment and those compound over time, but no one action, generally speaking, no one action is life changing.
It's how that complies with the time.
And so the slight edge is making sure those decisions, those small decisions are decisions you want to make in the right direction.
So it's a, it's a great book to help you.
It's nothing earth shattering in it, but what it does, it puts it all together in a way that really resonated, made sense with me.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, I think that having systems in place and, you know, being intentional are so important.
Since the pandemic, I actually had to reevaluate my own systems and I have beside me, I don't know if I, it doesn't show up in the zoom, but I have a notebook.
I had to start, I had to go back to analog.
And so that was really interesting to me.
I very much wanted to go back to analog.
I love the idea of it and I just can't.
I can't pull it off.
I've tried.
I have, I don't know, probably 12 journals partially filled of, you know, to do's and all that kind of stuff.
And I love the concept.
I just can't pull it off.
Yeah.
I have to say I'm a hybrid model.
So my calendar, I, it doesn't go in a journal.
My calendar is definitely electronic.
I manage like eight calendars, you know, but I have a rolling to do list and that was really life changing for me where I make my to do list.
And then at the end of the week, I actually evaluate whether or not the items on the to do list.
need to continue to be on the to do list and I'll rewrite them in the new week.
So that has been something really important to me, but taking notes, analog and having a way for me to be able to reference back to them, you know, on meetings like this, I just wrote down the slight edge is something that I might want to refer back to.
I have just found it nice, but I do, I do find since the pandemic, I've had to relearn how to balance analog and digital.
in my life, not just, you know, not just in my work, but we, we kind of swung towards a lot of digital and I needed to cut that out.
I needed to get back towards having a nice balance between analog and digital.
So thanks for that share.
Yep.
So tell us a little bit about your work and your background so that we can, you know, become familiar with.
What you love and what you offer to the world.
Sure.
Sure.
So I started in fundraising like everybody I think started accidentally in fundraising My undergrad degree is in education and I just graduated college and a friend of mine said hey I'm starting this after school program.
Do you want to come run it? And I said, yes.
And so I went to go move there to go run the program.
And as we're unloading the truck, literally moving trucks still in the driveway, he goes, well, the good news is I've got your salary for the first month.
And so, I learned very quickly that I needed to go out and fundraise, not just run the program.
And I learned that I was actually quite good at it, and I enjoyed it a lot more than I enjoyed the program side of it.
While I was doing that, it was with a fairly large non profit, and they had Thanksgiving directors that came in, Out of town came in and the local team set up the meetings and, and, and told the local story, but the hired guns who knew the technical knowledge and did that, and I did that with the, I was that local contact with that, you know, that hired gun on Plaingiving and we hit it off and he really liked my work.
And he said, listen, I'm leaving.
I'm moving over here.
The very first thing they want me to do is build a team.
Do you want to join? And I said, yes, yes, I do.
And so, I moved with him and well, not with him, but I moved.
And started my, my journey in plan giving and fell in love with the intimacy of the relationship with the donors.
Yeah, yeah.
You have the transaction donors who just want, you know, the wording and there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm no problem at all, but with so much of it, the, the relationship with the donor is so intimate.
And you, you know, you know, their family, you know, their family stories, you know, the trials and tribulations, you know what they're trying to accomplish, fix or avoid with their planning.
And it's just so amazing.
I absolutely loved it.
And as I progressed and I, you know, moved in a position where I had a team of people, then I moved up and again, where I had a team of people that were over major and, and planned, and, and as I got away from that, I became less and less content in my work.
And so when I finally retired after nearly a little over 30 years in, in fundraising, most of it in.
I wanted to get back to plan giving.
And so I started training, plan giving, teaching people how to do plan giving.
And I think, I think I was successful.
And I think I had a really good message and a model, but what I was finding is the tyranny of the urgent.
Prevented them from using what they knew, right? So it wasn't a lack of knowledge.
It was just simply a matter of, I've got to make sure there's payroll covered and, and, or, or I gotta make sure I meet this goal.
And plan giving was never part of that conversation.
And so a few friends of mine and I, cause as you might imagine, it's a, it's a fairly small community of people who do plan, you know, so we, we all kind of, we're saying, you know, We feel bad.
We're doing our job.
We're doing, I think we're doing a good job at it, but it's wasted.
Like we're wasting the charity's money.
We're wasting our time, wasting their time.
And so we said, well, what if we do do it for them? And so we explore this idea of what would it look like? We actually moved into the nonprofit space to help them do it to actually be their turnkey plan giving solution.
And there are a couple of models out there that do it already.
One of the things that set us apart that I was emphatic about, and none of them disagreed with me was that.
We would always be representative of the charity rather than represented by the charity.
So the difference is with some groups that are out there, they will take the cherry's money.
Then go talk to their donors and do a phenomenal job.
Right.
They only share back with the nonprofit where the charity says they can.
And so the vast majority of the time, the cherry doesn't know what happened.
They don't know whether or not they received a gift.
And.
We didn't want that.
We wanted the relationship to remain with the nonprofit.
And so we, when we go out there, you know, we're, we have the same conversations, but they understand we're there from the charity and those notes make it into the charity CRM.
So they know what's going on.
So that if I get hit by the bus yesterday.
The relationship can continue, right? But so that they know what's going on with their donors, right? Ultimately our goal as an organization is to not be with any nonprofit longer than five years.
We believe that we do our job within five years.
They'll be at a point where they can hire a full time plan giving person.
And that's not us.
That's not what we want to do.
That's not what, you know, and so.
We know we've got to put all those foundations in place so that when the next person comes in, it's ready for them.
So that's what we're doing now.
And so we, we work with small to midsize nonprofits to do their turnkey plan giving program.
Yeah.
We still do the DIY and we still do the do it.
With us, but most of our folks and what we enjoy most is doing it for them.
They hire us.
We come alongside of them.
We, we, we attend their staff meetings.
We attend board meetings or committee meetings, whatever it is they want us to do, but we're meeting with their donors.
We're helping them put together the marketing plan.
We're implementing the marketing plan.
All the things that plan give you direct do.
We just do it for them on a fractional basis until they're ready to hire someone full time.
Oh, I think there's so many, there's a lot in that unpack and just to, you know, one, I mean, starting at the very beginning.
So you fell in love with fundraising really quickly.
What, what about it did you love in the very earliest part? What did you love? Oh, what I loved was the immediate visualization of success.
So I had done sales type work.
In college, I did some work with at the time they called it janitorial supplies.
They don't call it that anymore.
But right.
So, you know, going to business and there was, I was effective at it, but it wasn't.
But with this, I could see immediately that both sides of the equation lit up at the wind, right? The donor was excited.
The nonprofit was excited and I got My salary paid the next month, I said, it's a win, win win.
And it was really amazing to see.
I don't, I don't remember anybody being excited that I sold them toilet cleaner.
Yeah, right.
The, the toilet wasn't excited.
That business wasn't excited.
Even the business I worked for wasn't really excited.
Right.
And, and it certainly didn't do anything for me except feed my belly, which was great.
But in non, with fundraising.
Everybody seemed to be excited about the completion, even the one giving up the money, right? It was that joy they felt was so foreign to me that I just fell in love with it.
And I've, and that's been my driver ever since.
I love the missions I work for.
I won't work for organization where I don't allow the mission.
But truly it's the donors.
It's seeing that joy that keeps me coming back and pushing at it.
I think you make a great point.
So, so I've been in fundraising since college too.
I actually graduated.
My first job was with the university to write grants.
And I worked in every area of development except for plan giving, actually plan giving and major gifts.
I didn't work in those two areas.
But you know, many people are afraid of fundraising, but I think the point that you just hit on was that when you share the opportunity and it's aligned with the person that you're speaking with and they become a donor, it is a very exciting thing for them because I like to say fundraising is Identifying a need in the world and saying, Hey, I know one solution.
Would you like to join arms with me? Right? That's that's all fundraising is.
It's really fun.
Friend raising.
It is what I, when I taught staff, I said, we're in the relationship business, but we're intentional.
In our relationship, it's a relationship with a purpose and the purpose is the mission, but the relationship is always about the donor.
It's about what they need, what they want.
So we, we, we talk about what they want to accomplish, fix or avoid, right? With their giving.
That's what it is.
And when we can match what the mission does with what they want to accomplish, fix or avoid, we have a victory every time.
And we have to be able to say, This isn't right for donor A.
This doesn't, this doesn't ring Susie's bell.
We need to go talk to Janet, right? And, and, and understand that, and there's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong with Susie not caring about sending kids to camp.
They care, she cares about making sure they have food on the table.
There's nothing wrong with that.
We just have to acknowledge that and know that presenting it to Susie's a waste of our time, energy, and hurts our relationship.
We're presenting it to Janet is exactly what she wants because she remembers going to camp and all the great joys, memories she had of that time and being able to give that to other kids is exactly what she wants is knowing the donor and matching it with that particular cause and not being upset when they don't want to give to.
Generic things or things that don't resonate with them.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's, I think this is great.
I think this is a great, great conversation.
So you said you want to match, you want to find out what the donor wants to accomplish, fix, or avoid.
So I think that's a great formula.
Anyone listening, jot that down.
Like you want to remember that that's a great formula for, you know, I think about, I mean, for me as a mom, I have three children.
I think about making dinner, right? I always say that dinner is phenomenal.
It only has to happen once so they can like it, hate it or whatever, and we don't ever have to do it again.
But.
But, you know, over time, I know that one of my kids doesn't prefer to have mushrooms in their food.
The other one doesn't prefer to have peppers in their food.
And so I'm not going to.
Focus on a meal.
If, if I want to have a special dinner for Abby, I'm not going to put mushrooms in it because I love Abby.
And I know that she doesn't particularly like mushrooms.
It's, you know, but I kind of think it's the same thing when we think about building that relationship.
And if we can reframe fundraising in some of these other ways for individuals who are a little more timid or reserved about fundraising, it can help them recognize like, your strength of, excuse me, loving people and serving people.
That's what we do in fundraising.
We love people and we serve people in fundraising and knowing what they love and being able to find those alignments is what we do because we do care about them, right? We do care about the individuals.
Yeah, when I talk to executive directors who don't, I'm not a fundraiser.
I want to do fundraising, blah, blah, you know, first of all, they're wrong, but set that aside.
I, I will tell them, I can, you know, I can make you a pretty good fundraiser without ever having to ask for money.
And that's how you position the story.
So that they align with that without ever having to say, will you support me? I can give them all the tools to build the story where the donor's going to want to make the gift.
Now, I don't believe it's going to be as big of a gift as it would have been if they would have asked.
I believe that with all of my heart, but at least we're moving forward, right? Until we can give them to the next step to see that kind of success and to see if they've never seen the joy of a donor who's fulfilled what they want to accomplish, fix, or avoid through that mission.
Once they see that a lot of times that light clicks and they go, Oh yeah.
Okay.
So this isn't fundraising.
This is furthering our mission for them and for us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and I love the idea of helping them.
I mean, there's so many great things out here in the nonprofit sector that I didn't know about until I learned till I met that nonprofit that loves that thing.
Right.
And so I think oftentimes we.
make a lot of assumptions about community members and about people in general and what they're going to like and dislike based on what our knowledge or feelings are, but the truth is They may have never heard about the problem, let alone.
I thought about whether or not there needs to be a solution for that problem.
Right.
And so our opportunity is that we get to share with them both.
And, and I really you know, in, I do grant writing and I do grant writing training, and I always say it has to be part of a bigger strategy.
And the reason is the whole strategy is.
communicating out our mission, helping our community know we need this because I believe sustainability, true sustainability, the Georgia health, I think it's called the Georgia health framework.
They have a great definition of sustainability and it's where the community values so much what you do that they want to support it and make sure that it continues in their community.
And I love that.
I'm like, that's great.
Because People don't know, they don't know what the problems are and they don't know what the solutions are.
And that's one problem.
The other problem that I've encountered is donors who think they understand the problem and have it wrong.
And that is, we really see that a lot inside the homeless sector.
You know, people have a, an idea of what causes or why people are homeless.
And all you've got to do is watch pop culture to see the get a job, your bum kind of references.
And those are out there, not because they're so far out, but because they're so cliche.
People will have that, you know, that concept of, you know, what, or that they're all mentally ill or they're all you know, there are plenty of jobs, go get a job.
Whoa.
It's nowhere near as easy as they are.
So helping re educate and redefine the language can be a real challenge as well.
But that, that's a much broader conversation, but you're absolutely right.
Being able to articulate that message and then help them see a solution.
That they didn't know was even possible is really, really telling.
And so I'm going to pivot and I know you will, and I'm sorry, but one of the things we love to be able to do is to help donors see that possibility through their planned gifts.
So the idea of, of helping them say, okay, so you give a thousand dollars a year to this nonprofit.
And that's an amazing gift.
Sooner or later, you're not going to be able to make that thousand dollar gift.
Let's talk about how you can endow that.
So that every year that nonprofit gets at least 1, 000 out of it.
And so helping them see a potential that they never would have imagined.
That is a very reasonable number.
It was about 24, 000 for most nonprofits to endow gift.
If they can afford 1, 000 outright, they can guaranteedly afford a 25, 000 gift through their estate.
So helping them see possibilities that they never even imagined is one of the greatest tools we love to use with Planned Giving to open their eyes about what it means to leave that legacy for that nonprofit.
Yeah, I'm so glad you pivoted because I was actually just about to because I was like, yes.
Okay.
So now that we've talked about the donors in that relationship.
So if tell, tell the listeners a little bit about why plan giving is different than collecting, you know, a reg of a yearly gift.
You kind of touched on it there, but you know, what are some amazing things that you've seen out of plan giving and why it matters.
I don't differently than perhaps a one time gift or, you know, even an ongoing gift.
So I'll give you, I'll give you my top three and then we go deeper if you want.
So number one is when a donor has made a plant gift, it is the greatest expression of love and respect.
They're listing your nonprofit in the same legal and financial documents that they did their spouse, their children, and their grandchildren.
It just, I there, what, what higher level can there be? So that's number one is it's, it is such an expression of love and respect that it is just humbling that a donor would do that.
So that's number one.
Number two is what it does for the relationship between the organization and the non, the organization and the donor.
Moving forward.
One of the concerns we hear all the time is, well, I don't want to talk about plan giving because I don't want to impact my annual giving numbers.
And that I, and I can understand that concern.
I really can.
I don't want to hurt this year for the hope of a gift in 10 years.
Right.
But what we know hands down that not only does it not hurt annual giving, it improves annual giving.
So the average.
multi year donors.
So only looking at multi year donors, that's who our plan giving pool is anyway.
So not the first years, the average nonprofit has about a 37 percent churn rate in multi year donors.
So about 37 percent of the time, your longterm donors are going to leave you for whatever reason.
Once they made a plan gift, the churn rate is nearly zero.
It is higher than 99 percent retention rate.
Wow, we're plan giving donors.
So that's number one.
So if they've made the emotional commitment to your organization to support you through there in the future, they want to make darn sure you're there when it's time.
So they're going to continue to support you and About 60 percent of the time they're in, they're giving increases.
So they were giving 1, 000 this year.
Next year, they may give 1200 to 1500.
You'll see the number increase about 60 percent of the time, which for the average nonprofit is less than 20 percent that they see donors.
So they serve 100 gift.
The chances of that being anything other than 100 gift for the rest of the life of the donor is next to none.
Right.
But we see that.
So those are my top three that if I was going to squeeze a fourth in.
It's that plain giving truly is possible for donors of any size, whereas major gifts can only be donors.
You can make a major gift, right? That's just by definition.
If they can't do it, then they can't do it.
But our mantra has been what we teach, what we preach both to the nonprofits into the donors is if you have two cents, Two pennies to rub together.
It's not just only your right, but it's your obligation to determine where those two cents go.
Don't burn your family making a decision and don't rely on the state to make the decision for you.
Take the action, make the decision.
If it's our nonprofit, great.
But regardless, make that decision.
And so it's possible for donors of all sizes to have that kind of intimate relationship that isn't possible with other giving avenues, just because just the sheer volume of donors are possible.
Let's think about, sorry.
I was, I was really intently listening.
So you, you said.
Plan giving is doable for donors of any size, any size.
I really like that.
So, and when we speak about plan giving, typically that is a gift.
Is it, is it always typically from like a life insurance, like a life insurance beneficiary style or educate me on that? Like, tell me.
So there is no, there is no common definition of plan giving.
There's actually a wide variety of definitions.
So what I'm going to talk about are gifts that are made today, but not received by the nonprofit till the future.
So the number one gift type 80 something percent of all planned gifts or gifts by will.
In fact, that's the language we will teach nonprofits to use when talking about plan giving.
Now, you know, when you're trying to do a donor, you never going to use the term plan giving.
It's a foreign concept and you find me a donor.
Rap.
Who doesn't think they're planning to make a gift, I'll find you a donor that doesn't care about you.
Right? So the term plan giving doesn't mean anything.
So we always teach, talk about gifts through will, regardless of where the gift evolves, everybody needs a will.
Most people understand what a will is, or at least think they do.
And it's easier for people to grasp.
So number one, number two is, as far as, as volume of gifts go wills number two is gifts of life insurance.
So that is a few different ways that happens in cooling, more complex, like.
Wealth replacement trust through life insurance, but the, the most common are listening as a beneficiary of an IRA of a, of a life insurance policy and, or transferring ownership of a paid up policy, but the most common is just listening as a beneficiary in some shape or form.
And then.
Your IRA your retirement assets listing as a beneficiary in that.
And what we say is the last two donors can do on their own.
They don't have to talk to anybody.
They can log in their IRA account and make the addition.
They make the change.
They're well for wills, a lot of attorneys will do consoles for will they created without any costs.
Or a very minimal cost.
And so even just doing a console that includes is pretty simple with that.
And so there's, there's lots of minutia that goes in behind that, that we talk about from a marketing standpoint and how to present it and where to put it in your will or on your website and all that kind of stuff, but always lead with gift by will, it's the number one tool.
It's the thing everybody can explain.
And if they understand what a charitable remainder trust is.
They certainly understand where the will is and they know it's got to get there one day or another.
And so it's, it's a very easy conversation to start with.
Yeah.
I like that gifts by will.
I think that that is definitely terminology that, you know, it just is really understandable for anyone if they're really new to plan giving, whether they're at the foundation or whether they're a community member who you're a potential donor.
Right.
Right.
Oh, I really liked that.
I think one of the, I recently went to a plan giving event that my financial advisor hosted.
It was phenomenal.
And one of the things I really valued when they talked about plan giving was just how kind it is to be able to help people understand the ways in which we can benefit our community.
You know, after we're gone in those areas that we absolutely love.
And the two, the two planned gifts speakers actually.
They just, they spoke with such generosity towards individuals who had left legacies, you know, and they both spoke actually, it was ironic.
They had not planned this, but they both spoke of their favorite, their favorite donor to their foundation.
Cause they were both from community foundations had given gifts in the early 1900s and they were really passionate.
One was really passionate about women and children.
And the other one was really passionate about.
Women's health, I think.
So it just happened to be that in this circumstance, both of the donors had similar passions, but two completely different organizations.
And that more than a hundred years later, those gifts still make positive impacts on women's lives and children's lives.
And I think That really framed it for me on when we speak of legacy, how having a planned gift can leave a legacy and that if you are super passionate about something today and you can continue to be passionate, you can continue to invest in that passion when you're gone.
And I just absolutely love the generosity that they spoke with about it.
And I think that For our listeners who may be new to plan giving or who don't have plan giving as part of their fundraising strategy.
It is really exciting to be able to think about it like that, right? That this is, this is a legacy.
So do you only work primarily with the elderly? That's the, that's the thought that comes to mind.
Is this something that where we target the elderly? No I don't.
That is the, that is the primary group, right? If depending on how you define elderly, because you're now you're talking about my age.
generation.
But but yeah, it is that is, but the average person who will include a charity in their state plans makes that first decision at about age 45.
So yes here's the, here's the morbid stat and it's a fun one to think about from a, from a giddy sort of way.
The average person passes away within six months of their most recent will update.
Oh, no.
So now they could, there could be 35 iterations between the first one and the last one.
But what that tells you is the donors knew they needed to make sure what they wanted to do is up to date, right? So normally it's some some life event happened.
That's number one reason why Donors reach out to nonprofits about plan giving is a life event.
Someone passed away, either a loved one or a friend.
They retired they sold a business.
They're starting to get to the requirement of a distribution.
There's some life event that's triggering, reaching out to the owner and saying, I now I'm curious about that, which is why we talk about marketing.
We talk about very broad, very persistent communication, but to answer your question, no, it isn't just the elderly, but that is our primary one.
We also work with professional advisors.
Snoop kind of helped them because I know when I went through law school, it was a very small amount of information about charitable giving.
So helping them understand.
That what the donors want you to do isn't, you know, legal, immoral or ineffective, it can, can really help us move that ball forward.
And so, yeah, no, not totally.
And I don't just talk about death all day, which is what my wife is convinced I do.
She thinks I just talk about people dying all day long.
And I don't, in fact, we almost never talk about it.
What we talk about is how their legacy is going to be remembered in the community.
Through the mission, whether their name is or not, is irrelevant to most of our guns.
The vast majority don't care if their name is.
What they care about is what they cared about will continue to persist.
And I'm so grateful for all of those who have gone before us, who have left Legacy Gifts because You know, there's so many phenomenal things in our communities as a result of that.
And I, I grew up in the Pittsburgh area.
And so, you know, Andrew Carnegie obviously was a huge philanthropist in the area, and there are still gifts that his funds give in the community.
And they've been able to fund research of all sorts and libraries and all kinds of amazing things.
And I want that for future generations.
I want that for my, my children.
I want that for my grandchildren, whom I have not yet met because my kids are not, you know, having children yet, you know, so, but I want them to experience it.
You know, I want them to experience these wonderful things.
And for those who struggle with challenges, There are, you know, there's challenges I've experienced in my life, and I think, oh, it would have been so nice if there could have been an opportunity for help and so that's what that's where our nonprofits bridge right our nonprofits bridge those things that our community members need, and that would make their life better.
easier and reduce suffering.
I, that has been a month, you know, on top of my suffering and, and we have donors who care about the very same thing.
That's why they're contributing to us in first place, right? They're not, they're contributing to our mission, not.
This other mission over here, there's nothing wrong.
That other mission just isn't where the heart is.
So denying the donor, the opportunity of ensuring the mission moving forward is just wrong.
And that's what happens when we don't talk to our donors about plan giving is here's what I'll tell you.
The average donor supports 12 other organizations during their life.
One of those 12, if not more, are talking to your donors about plan giving.
And we don't want the donors to think, and they do sadly think, well, this charity, my charity, didn't talk to me about it, so they must not do that, or they're not set up to accept or whatever, and then go and make their plans and don't include your organization, which they may have loved even more, because they assume that since you didn't say anything, they're going to You're not, you're not interested or you're not able to accept that kind of gifts because they just, the level of sophistication isn't there and they're, they not taking upon themselves to reach out and say, Hey, I'm doing my will.
What's the right wording.
Some do, but a far larger number just assumes if you didn't bring it up.
Either not either able to or interested in that kind of gift.
And that's just because our donors, they're getting the messaging.
I promise you when you talk about it, it will not be the first time they were mentioned, especially if they graduated college, right? Almost every college out there has a very robust plan giving program.
You know, my mother who did not.
Yes, she did graduate high school, but certainly didn't graduate college, right? She has been reached out to by three of my schools that I attended and and the two my brother attended As hey your child attended here.
Don't you want to make a gift? So they're reaching out to the parents, you know Darn, well, they're hitting the alumni.
So don't be the one left With a donor wondering, don't deny your donors the opportunity to impact the mission they truly care about, because you were afraid to say something wrong, or you're afraid that they might ask you a question you don't know the answer to.
Yeah, I think that's probably where a lot of people find themselves.
They just don't know, like they don't know enough to be able to introduce it.
So if a person wants to learn about more about plan giving, what are your recommendations? So there's a on our website on the resources page.
There's actually a free training.
It's about an hour long training.
I'm playing any one on one.
Just kind of what is it? What does it look like? What does it mean? We talk a little bit about marketing the two different.
We, we, we, we teach a hybrid.
marketing model.
One is those you're intentionally going after.
I know I want to go talk to Jane, right? That's a very small number compared to the far broader marketing where you're encouraging them to raise their hand so that now you know who to go talk to regardless of their giving size.
So that would be a great resource.
There's plenty of information out there just simply Googling, but so it's not what we do.
Do, but I'm more than happy.
So what I'll tell you, and I'll tell your listeners, I can teach any professional fundraiser to do plan giving an hour and a half.
I promise you, if you are, if you're a professional fundraiser, I can teach you plan giving an hour and a half, 92 percent of the time, you don't need anybody else.
Because those are the gifts you will get by will give life insurance.
Keep firing.
It's 92 percent of all playing gifts.
The other 8 percent we just teach you how to answer the questions.
You don't have to know the four tiered distribution of general manor unit trust.
You have to know What is a charity's part and who's your backup? Who's your lifeline? When a donor asks the question, because if you go into a meeting and you know who to call, cause I, as a fundraiser, I was asked lots of questions I didn't know the answers to, right? So I had to say, that's a great question.
I'm not sure.
Let me get back to you.
Plaguing is no different.
Well, you know, I really want to include you.
I want to do a charitable gift annuity.
Is that something you do? That's a great question.
I don't know off the top of my head.
Let me get an answer for you and get back to you.
Right.
And then you call your lifeline.
What is this? What the heck are they talking about? You know? Yeah.
So it is, there's, the industry has done a phenomenal job promoting the smoke and mirrors and mystery of plan giving.
They really have.
Us plan giving professionals love that.
And we love to talk about that one gift that was very, very complex and they are out there, but it's, it's just rare.
It's 8 percent of the time.
It's something other than the big three you could do with no training.
Yeah, we always like to talk about the unicorns, but it is good to know that generally we're not working with unicorns.
So, all right, so I will post to peak 9860.
How did you get the 9860? Can I ask? So I formed that company years ago.
And so when we agree, I said, well, I've got this company name and they will get let's just use that.
So 9860 is the altitude of McGowan Peak in the Sawtooth Mountains of Idaho.
And my name McGowan is unusual in its spelling.
It's almost always has an A or E in it.
And so when I saw McGowan Peak without an A or E, I fell in love with it.
And so it's altitude is 9, 860 feet, and so it's peak 9860, and we're at the pinnacle of it so that's kind of where that came about.
Yeah.
Well, that's good to know.
Maybe the listeners will remember that, but, you know, I'll put a link for sure to your resources.
Yeah, I promise you, we've had more than one conversation about whether or not we want to change NAM, and I said, well, let's just give it some time.
Yeah.
I just changed my name so I can tell you I was profuse solutions, which I absolutely love because I do believe that there are profuse solutions to any problem when it comes to fundraising.
But but again, yeah, you know, it was so long and people always wondered about it so I did change my name.
It's a lot of work.
So if you don't have to do it, don't worry.
Well, when we go down that path again, I'll bring you into the conversation.
You can tell them the pros and cons.
Yeah.
So, okay.
So that's where they can get more information or training.
Now you're a, you're a fractional plan giver, which means that they can hire you, like you said, kind of part time, you know, for their organization.
I'm assuming if they want something like that, they can reach out to you and learn more.
Yep.
Be happy to on the website as well.
You'll see what our pricing model is.
What we say on the site, but I'll tell you as well, the pricing isn't fixed.
It's a starting point.
No, no nonprofits, the same.
None of our nonprofits have the same agreement or the same expectations.
Everybody we work with has a particular need.
And so we just match it.
We just give you an idea on the website.
Kind of what to expect from a pricing standpoint, being, Oh, they're not, you want us to help you or you want us to do it.
What does it gonna look like? What it actually will be will vary based on what it is.
You're actually wanting us to do the size and all that kind of stuff.
Speaking of size, the other thing you'll find the resources are calculators.
If you want to get an idea about what is your, what are the potential for plain giving based on my.
My database, there are calculators in there.
One's pretty simple.
And I just know how many donors I have.
And another one gets into more detail about the long time donor volunteers, I guess, to really give you a real hone in on what the real potential is for plain giving inside of your list.
So, it's a really long time and lots of nonprofits of a whole bunch of different sectors to really put together.
What are those numbers look like? And what do they mean? No, it's not perfect, but no, no one is, but it gives you a really good idea.
And we've been very pleasantly surprised when we sat down and played with it.
It's matching what we're seeing in results with our clients, so That's awesome.
So then any nonprofit can go see, you know, if they're ready.
Yep.
If they're ready to add planned giving and they're exploring that, they can kind of see what the potential impact could be.
So that's really exciting.
Thank you for sharing that.
And so before we, before we log off is there any one piece of advice that you really want to share with the listeners and you want them to remember after they listen to this, the one piece they walk away go thinking about and remembering? Yes.
You can do it.
Plan giving is not complicated.
92 percent of the time, just start talking to your donors broadly about leaving a legacy through a gift through your will.
It's don't do anything special.
Don't go buy marketing material.
Don't go buy the brochures.
Just stick a little blurb in your newsletter, stick it in a Facebook post.
Don't.
Don't do anything special.
Just add it to what you're already doing and you will be amazed how many donors raise their hand and say, I want to learn more.
Oh, that's great piece of advice.
It's so simple.
And you know, we don't know what our donors want until we ask them.
So if you follow me on, on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn, you'll see frequently have a hashtag.
Don't say no for your donors.
And that's what happens when we don't ask, right? If we don't ask, we're essentially saying no for our donor.
No, not every donor is going to want to leave a plane gift.
You know, less than 70 percent of Americans will have a will at the time they die at the time of their death.
So it's not for everybody, but let's not make that decision for them.
You talk about it and let them say, yes, I'm interested in go learn more that and go and talk to him about it.
And I, I know we're running out of time, but I just want to, one of the questions we get all the time is, well, how do I move from a major gift conversation to a plan giving conversation? What does that look like? And I'll tell, I tell them and I'll tell you and I'll tell the listeners, this is what I would do.
And this is what I did dozens and dozens.
If not hundreds of times as I'm leaving my donor meeting, right? I've had coffee or tea or Sanka.
God forbid if I ever drink another cup of Sanka.
And as I'm staying, cause they always walk you to the door, right? They walk you right to their door and you're shaking hands or you're hugging you and you smell like old lady perfume.
And as you're leaving, you say.
Listen, in the future, I would love to come back and talk to you about how you can make a gift through your will, if that's okay.
Don't wait for a yes and no, shake your hand and leave.
If you wait for a yes and no, or you pause, which is what we do, we do, you know, the golden silence is vital for fundraising, but not here.
Here is we're just planting the seed and I'm not going to bring it up the next time unless I have a rough relationship or I'm going to wait two or three visits for I bring it back up again.
All I want to do is plant the seed so that when I do bring it up, they're like, you know, I've been waiting for you to say something.
That's my idea.
That's great.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
And you know, you said something just real briefly.
You said 70 percent of Americans don't have a will.
And that's such a valuable gift to give a person just to have them think about doing a will, you know, if you are service oriented, I think that just saying, Hey, have you ever considered, you know, putting something in your will and helping them think about doing a will is such a gift, because that's a gift.
So, natural estate planning week is coming up here two weeks.
And so, you know, some of our clients were talking to me about how do we, how do we talk to them without ever asking for a gift about the importance of making those plans? What does it mean to your family if you don't make those plans, right? What you're giving them an unfair burden.
You're increasing costs for a lot of, for a lot of them.
It's just, it's, it's just morally wrong not to take that action.
And so helping them see that importance.
And then, oh, by the way, if you're having to do it, you want to include us.
Great.
Just stressing the importance of doing it is a great message, a great value add for your donors.
Yes.
Thank you for the work that you do.
I, it's so clear that you're very passionate about it.
And I love that because you know, like I said, when we started so many times, we're afraid of asking, but this is really, it's clear that it has added so much to your life as much as well as to the donor's lives.
And it just thrills you.
So I thank you.
Thank you for joining us today and to our listeners.
I want to thank you also for joining us.
We look forward to visiting with you again next week with our next podcast.
So see you then.
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Nonprofit 411.
I hope you found today's conversation as insightful and inspiring as I did.
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