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Peacock's 'Devil in Disguise - John Wayne Gacy' · Murder Files Unsealed

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Deep Dive. We the place you come
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to make sense of all those sources, digging deep to
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pull out the key insights you really need. Today we
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are diving into a really dark chapter of American crime.
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We're talking about John Wayne Gacy, also known of course
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as the Killer Clown. He murdered at least thirty three
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young men and boys. This was in the Chicago suburbs,
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mostly between nineteen seventy two and seventy eight.
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Speaker 2: A truly horrifying figure.
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Speaker 1: But we're not just here to list the terrible facts.
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Our sources today are actually centered around a new Peacock
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limited series. It's called Devil in Disguise John Wayne Gacy, Right.
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Speaker 2: It just premiered October twenty twenty.
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Speaker 1: Five, and the buzz around it. The reason we're digging
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in is that critics are saying it's trying to do
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something well different with true crime.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, trying to shift the focus.
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Speaker 1: Exactly away from, you know, glorifying the killer, which is
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a criticism you hear a lot these days. Instead, this
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series seems very focused on remembering the victims, the family's grief,
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and also really hitting hard on the systemic failures the
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prejudices kind of let Gaysey get away with it for so.
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Speaker 2: Long the societal context.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so our mission here is to unpack how this
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show pulls that off. How does it create what the
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sources are calling this rumbling, low level suspense while also
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being what they term a refreshing corrective to all the
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sensationalism we sometimes see in this genre.
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Speaker 2: Well, I think to really get why the show works,
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you first have to grasp the sheer audacity of Gaysey's disguise,
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his duplicity. His six year reign of terror wasn't some
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shadowy thing happening on the fringes. He was right there
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suburban Chicago, and he was hiding in plain sight behind
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this really carefully built image of respectability.
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Speaker 1: He owned a business, right, PDM Contractors.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. PDM Contractors are pretty successful remodeling and painting business,
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and the sources really highlight this. The business itself was key. Well,
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it's the perfect setup for him. He could hire young
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guys often, you know, maybe runaways or just looking for
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quick cash work, pay him cash, bring them right into
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his orbit, his house without really raising eyebrows. Yeah, and
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on top of being this seemingly successful local business man,
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he was involved. He was active in the community.
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Speaker 1: That's the clown part, right, Pogo the clown, that's.
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Speaker 2: Part of it. Yeah, volunteering at kids hospitals, parties, but
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also you know, rubbing shoulders with local politicians. He was connected.
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Speaker 1: So he wasn't just hiding. He was performing. He was
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integrated into the community fabric exactly.
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Speaker 2: That's the word integrated, and that whole performance, that persona.
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It completely masked the reality diagnosed psychopath, zero remorse, And
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the series apparently gets this. The sources say it understands
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the real horror isn't just the clown makeup, which, by
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the way, they deliberately hold back into late in the show.
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Oh interesting, Yeah, the focus is on Gaysey, the contractor, Gaysey,
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the friendly neighbor, Gaysey, the guy involved in local politics.
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The terrifying banality of his evil.
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Speaker 1: And the scale of that evil. It's just staggering when
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you think.
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Speaker 2: About it, it really is. We're talking minimum thirty three
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murders confirmed.
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Speaker 1: And the details where they found them.
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Speaker 2: Yes, sickeningly physical. Twenty nine of his victims were buried
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right there in the crawl space beneath his own home,
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eighty two thirteen West Summerdale Avenue.
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Speaker 1: It's under the floorboards, cramped.
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Speaker 2: Humid space, and the rest he apparently disposed of in
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the Deplaines River.
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Speaker 1: The logistics of that managing twenty nine bodies under your
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house for years, it speaks.
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Speaker 2: To a level of I don't know, calculated organization, sustained deception. Yeah,
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it's beyond comprehension for most people. It's a level of
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evil that's rare, even among serial killers.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's pivot to this new approach the series
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is taking, because the sources are really framing Devil in
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Disguise as like an intentional response to where true crime.
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Speaker 2: Is right now right, a counter narrative, and you know, for.
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Speaker 1: Anyone following the genre, it's blown up obviously. But with
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that comes well some pretty valid criticism. I mean, you
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remember the reaction to Netflix's Monster series, especially the Dahmer season.
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, huge backlash.
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Speaker 1: People were saying it was too graphics, spent too much time,
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almost humilizing Dahmer, making him a sort of dark pop culture.
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Speaker 2: Figure, glorifying the killer. Essentially. That was the core complaint.
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Speaker 1: Exactly, And Devil in Disguise, created by Patrick McManus, seems
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like it was built specifically to push back against that trend.
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Speaker 2: The sources suggest it's engineered as an antidote. Yeah, they
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talk about a deliberate and restrained approach.
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Speaker 1: Restrained what does that mean in practice though, when you're
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dealing with Gaysey, Well.
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Speaker 2: It seems to mean favoring emotional depth, the impact of
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the crimes, and building suspense that way, rather than relying on,
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you know, explicit violence or gore. Oka critics are calling
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it things like a tasteful, considered take, even a refreshing
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corrective to the genre's obsession with the killer's psychology.
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Speaker 1: So it's shifting the central question fundamentally.
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Speaker 2: Instead of why did Gaysey do it? It's asking what
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did these acts cost? What was the ripple effect of
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the loss?
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Speaker 1: The human costs?
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Speaker 2: Exactly? The aim, according to the creators, isn't shock value
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or titillation. It's to evoke inconsolable sadness.
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Speaker 1: Wow, that's a heavy goal for a TV show.
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Speaker 2: It is, and the narrative focus is really locked onto
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the victims and the quote profound grief of their families.
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That loss is the story.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I get the intention and it sounds laudable, but
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let me push back a little. Is there a risk here?
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You know, for a show to land, especially in this genre,
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sometimes you need to show the darkness. Right, are the
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sources saying it might be too restrained? Maybe it pulls
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punches on the historical reality, the sheer brutality for the
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sake of taste, because sometimes you need the graphic truth
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to grasp the full horror.
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Speaker 2: That's a really important question and a valid concern, I think.
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But the way the sources describe it, the restraint isn't
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achieved by just like censoring the awful parts, Okay, It's
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more about how they structure the narrative. They use this
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unique structure to keep the viewer from getting well stuck
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in Gaysey's perspective or dwelling too much on the procedural
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details of the killings themselves.
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Speaker 1: How does that structure work?
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Speaker 2: It's described as trifurcated. Across the eight episodes, you're following
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three timelines woven together, nonlinear.
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Speaker 1: Okay, three threads. What are they?
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Speaker 2: So? One is the present day or well present day
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then nineteen seventy eight police investigation, you know, the boots
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on the ground procedural stuff, right. The second timeline covers
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the courtroom drama that happened later after the discovery, the
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legal battles gotcha, and the third uses flashbacks. Now, some
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of these flashbacks do explore Gaycy's psychology, but apparently only
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to show his manipulation tactics.
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Speaker 1: Not to like explain him away with childhood trauma exactly.
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Speaker 2: And more importantly, many of those flashbacks are dedicated entirely
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to the victims, showing their lives before gay sy Ah.
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Speaker 1: Okay, So, by cutting between the seventy eight investigation, the
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later trial, and these victim focused flashback.
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Speaker 2: Right, Gaysey never gets to dominate the name arrative. You're
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constantly being pulled away from him, forced to confront the
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consequences or remember the person who was lost.
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Speaker 1: That sounds structurally interesting. It keeps the focus shifting.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's described as a dynamic, maybe even intentionally fragmented
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viewing experience. It's designed to prioritize memory and disruption over
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just following the killer's.
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Speaker 1: Arc and the casting Michael Churnis as gacy. How does
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that fit the restraint.
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Speaker 2: Well, the sources say Churnis is chilling, but the emphasis
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isn't on him being monstrous or overtly creepy. All the time. Okay,
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he's primarily portrayed as the contractor, the manipulative but on
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the surface successful businessman, which arguably makes it more horrifying.
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Speaker 1: Because it's more real, more mundane.
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Speaker 2: Exactly, the evil wasn't some cartoon villain. It was wearing
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applausible everyday disguise.
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Speaker 1: And this focus on remembrance, it goes right down to
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episode titles.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a powerful detail. The sources mentioned they actually
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name some episodes after specific victims. Wow. And visually they
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incorporate real photos, real footage of the victims into the show.
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Speaker 1: That must be incredibly jarring in a good way.
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Speaker 2: Maybe, I think that's the intent to constantly remind you
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these weren't just characters in a story. These were real people,
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real lives, real families, real futures destroyed. It aims to
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elevate it beyond typical true crime towards something more like
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a memorial.
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Speaker 1: And this whole approach, a focus on victims, the restraint,
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the structure. It seems like it really crystallizes around the
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event that finally brought Gaysey.
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Speaker 2: Down absolutely, the disappearance of Rob Pieaste, his last known victim.
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Speaker 1: The series doesn't start chronologically with the first murder.
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Speaker 2: No, it starts right there at the end of Gacy's run,
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the moment his world starts to unravel December eleventh, nineteen
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seventy eight.
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Speaker 1: And the sources really zero in on the specifics of
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that day.
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Speaker 2: They do. Rob Pieaste played by Riker Balloon in the show,
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he was just fifteen, a typical suburban.
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Speaker 1: Kid working an after school job.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, anison pharmacy into planes. And the detail that hits
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hard is why he was working that shift. Why trying
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to earn money to buy Christmas presents for his family.
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Speaker 1: Oh man, that just grounds it, immediately establishes the innocence completely.
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Speaker 2: And then Gasey walks in under the guise of legitimate business,
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talking to the pharmacy owner about a remodeling job.
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Speaker 1: The contractor persona again always.
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Speaker 2: And he offers Rob the possibility of a better paying
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summer job. So Rob steps outside to talk to him
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for a minute.
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Speaker 1: And his mother was waiting.
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Speaker 2: His mother, Elizabeth Peast played by Marin Ireland. She was
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right there waiting in the car. Oh god, and Rob's
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last words to her. The sources say, we're basically just
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wait a few minutes, just a few minutes, and those
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few minutes stretched, the sources say over twenty minutes, twenty
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agonizing minutes of waiting in that car before panic really
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set in for Elizabeth.
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Speaker 1: I can't even imagine.
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Speaker 2: And Ireland's performance apparently captures that raw maternal desperation. That
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feeling became the catalyst because this time, unlike with previous
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missing persons reports potentially linked to.
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Speaker 1: Gacy, this time someone listened.
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Speaker 2: This time, someone listened that specific, relatable agony of a
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mother waiting in a car that made the difference.
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Speaker 1: That single detail, the mother in the car, the clock
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taking path, those few minutes. It feels like such a
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powerful way to make the abstract horror of thirty three
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murders feel specific unbearable.
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Speaker 2: It really is. It's structurally very smart, and her desperation
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turned into immediate action.
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Speaker 1: She went straight to the police.
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Speaker 2: The Peaeces went to the Plain's police station that same night,
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filed a missing person's report.
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Speaker 1: And this is where Lieutenant Cosenzac comes in.
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Speaker 2: Right, Joseph Cosenzac, played by James Badgdale, and crucially, unlike
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maybe some officers dealing with earlier potentially related disappearances, Cozensac
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took it seriously. He didn't dismiss it. He saw a
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suburban teenager missing under suspicious circumstances, and he acted that
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immediate concern was apparently absent before.
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Speaker 1: So petis disappearance was the thread that finally unraveled everything,
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the breakthrough they'd needed for six years.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it finally gave the police a solid lead they
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could pursue relentlessly, focusing sustained attention on Gaysey in a
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way that just hadn't happened with the earlier victims, many
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of whom were more.
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Speaker 1: Marginalized, and that led to surveillance.
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Speaker 2: Intense surveillance, apparently a very tense, dangerous cat and mouse
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game between the police and Gaysey wow which eventually gave
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them enough probable cause to get the search warrant for
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his house and the crawl space and the crawl space.
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The excavation well, the sources call it a nightmarish collection
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of bodies. It brought Geese's whole world crashing down gruesomely,
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instantly confirmed cousin Sach's instincts and the Pias family's worst fears.
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Speaker 1: And Geesy himself even then trying to control the story.
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What did he claim about Rob Peaste.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, typical Gaysey manipulation. In his confession, he admitted luring
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Rob Holmes, strangling him, dumping the body in the river. Okay,
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but he tried to frame Peace as somehow different and outlier,
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claimed Rob didn't fit his usual pattern of victims who
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supposedly demanded more money or threatened.
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Speaker 1: To expose him, trying to blame the victims even after
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murdering though right to.
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Speaker 2: The end it's disgusting. Rob Peace's body tragically was found
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weeks later in the Illinois river, identified through dental records.
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Speaker 1: And the series doesn't just end the Peace's story there
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with the discovery, and this.
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Speaker 2: Seems key to its approach. It keeps following Elizabeth Peat's
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experience after the arrest, her grief, her ongoing torment. Yeah,
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the sources mentioned the show depicting her bureaucratic struggle, just
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waiting for official confirmation even after the bodies were found,
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and just that endless internal question why wasn't my son
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found sooner? Why him? Ireland's performance is meant to carry
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that inconsolable sadness the creators talked about right through the
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whole series.
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Speaker 1: Okay, So focusing on the Pilist family and the awful
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reality that it took his specific disappearance to finally trigger
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serious action. That leads directly into what seems like the
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shows biggest critique.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, the systemic failures. Why was Gaysey allowed to operate
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for so long?
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Speaker 1: It wasn't just him being clever, right, The system itself
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played a role, a huge.
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Speaker 2: Role, and the show apparently digs into this deeply.
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Speaker 1: Let's look at his methods first. How did he actually
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lure these victims?
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Speaker 2: Primarily using his business PDM contractors. He'd target young man teenagers,
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often those who were maybe a bit vulnerable, runaways, guys
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looking for.
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Speaker 1: Quick work, offering jobs or cash.
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Speaker 2: Exactly promises of employment. It gave him a plausible reason
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to get them alone off and back at his house,
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and once there it was sexual assault, torture and ultimately strangulation.
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Speaker 1: And the authorities they had chances to stop him earlier.
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Speaker 2: That's one of the most infuriating parts. Yes, Gaysey was
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in some unknown entity.
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Speaker 1: He had or record the Iowa conviction.
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Speaker 2: Right, a sodomy conviction back in nineteen sixty eight in Iowa.
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He served time for that, but when he got out
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and moved back to the Chicago area that history. It
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just didn't seem to register as a major red flag
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for local law enforcement. Wow their complaints over the years,
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survivors who escaped him, families reporting suspicious encounters, but these
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were often dismissed, not taken seriously.
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Speaker 1: Why why were they dismissed? This seems central.
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Speaker 2: This is where the show apparently makes its sharpest critique,
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pointing directly at the societal blind spots of the nineteen seventies,
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specifically widespread homophobia and a general indifference towards certain groups.
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Speaker 1: Okay explain that.
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Speaker 2: The series argues that many of the reports about missing
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young men potentially connected to gaycy were ignored or just
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you know, put on the back burner by police because
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the victims were perceived as gay, or they were labeled
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simply as runaways, or in a really callous way, dismissed
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as male prostitutes.
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Speaker 1: So because of who they were perceived to be, their
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lives were seen as less important, less worthy of investigation.
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Speaker 2: That's the brutal implication. Society, including law enforcement at the time,
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essentially viewed these individuals through a judgmental, moralizing lens. You
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were young, maybe transient, maybe suspected of being gay. Your
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disappearance just didn't trigger the same level of alarm or
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resources as say a kid like Rob Peace from a
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good suburban family.
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Speaker 1: That is just staggering. It basically gave Gaysey operational immunity.
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Speaker 2: That's exactly what the sources suggest. The show argues this
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societal indifference, fueled by homophobia and class prejudice, created a
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vacuum allowed Gaysey's respectable contractor facade to hold up because
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the people he was praying on were considered low priority.
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It's a devastating indictment of the era.
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Speaker 1: And just imagine being one of those families. Your son vanishes,
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You go to the police and you're essentially told, oh,
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he probably just ran off.
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Speaker 2: Or worse, unimaginable pain. And the series seems determined to
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counteract that historical and difference.
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Speaker 1: How by humanizing the victim deeply through those flashbacks we mentioned,
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giving them identities beyond just being Gaysey's victims.
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Speaker 2: The sources mention specific examples like Gregory Godzig, who was
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he a seventeen year old kid who actually worked for
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Ace's company PDM, And the chilling detail is he was
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apparently forced to dig his own grave under Gaysey's orders.
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Speaker 1: Oh my God.
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Speaker 2: Another victim highlighted is John Sundick. The show takes time
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to explore, you know, what were their dreams, what was
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school like? Who are their families? What futures did they lose?
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It's about reclaiming their humanity and.
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Speaker 1: The survivor's stories must be crucial here too. They prove
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the pattern existed long before peace.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely vital. The series includes accounts from people who escaped Casey.
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Jeffrey Rignoll is mentioned brutally tortured, but he survived, and
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Rignold actually became an activist later speaking out against Gaysey.
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His story underscores that the trauma wasn't just historical, it
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was ongoing right. And there's another survivor mentioned, David Bolton.
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He says Gaysey assaulted him way back in nineteen fifty
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six as a child.
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Speaker 1: Nineteen fifty six, so Gaysey was predatory for decades before
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the main killing spree.
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Speaker 2: Decades. Bolton says he still deals with PTSD thinks about
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it every single day. That testimony completely adds the idea
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that Gaysey's violence was confined to just those six years
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in the seventies.
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Speaker 1: Which makes the systemic failure. Even more profound, the endless
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waiting for answers for so many families.
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Speaker 2: It's the ultimate tragedy. And it didn't end with Gaysey's rest.
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For many victims, especially the earlier ones, reports might not
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have even been filed properly. Their disappearances just didn't make ways.
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Speaker 1: Like Timothy McCoy, Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Gasey's first known kill in nineteen seventy two. His family
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they had to wait fourteen years, fourteen years before his
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remains were finally identified. That waiting, that uncertainty is a
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specific kind of torture.
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Speaker 1: And even now it's not over for everyone.
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Speaker 2: No, that's maybe the most haunting part. Five victims, five
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young men pulled from that crawl space, remain unidentified to
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this day.
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Speaker 1: Where are they.
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Speaker 2: Buried in cemeteries near Chicago. Their markers just read.
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Speaker 1: We remembered, we remembered God.
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Speaker 2: It's the lasting price of that indifference, And the sources
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talk about the trauma having these ever widening ripples. It
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affected the whole community, the investigators who had to deal
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with the scene, even Gaysey's own children. They completely cut
18:05
ties with him after the conviction. The destruction just spread
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outwards far beyond the thirty three lives he took directly.
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So once you understand that backdrop of systemic failure, the
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courtroom section of the series takes on a different light.
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It's less about did he do it? That was never
18:20
really in doubt after the cross.
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Speaker 1: Space discovery, right guilt was obvious.
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Speaker 2: Becomes more about the the theater of justice I guess,
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uh huh accountability, and this courtroom drama forms a major
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part of that trifurcated structure we.
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Speaker 1: Talked about who are the key legal players the show
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focuses on.
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Speaker 2: Well, alongside Eltinge Cosenzach, you have Detective Raphael Tovar played
18:42
by Gabriel Luna, really pushing the investigation forward. And then
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Chris Sullivan plays the prosecutor, Bill Kunkle.
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Speaker 1: Kunkle had the job of presenting this horror to a jury,
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and a man's task.
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Speaker 2: How do you even begin to convey the scale of
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thirty three murders in a coherent, legally compelling way.
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Speaker 1: A Gaysey himself, he wasn't exactly a quiet defendant, was he?
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Speaker 2: Far from it? Michael Angerano plays Sam Amarante, Gaysey's defense lawyer,
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and the sources describe Emarante's main struggle as trying to
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silence his own chatty client.
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Speaker 1: Yasey wanted the spotlight.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely he seemed to relish the attention. His defense strategy
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centered on an insanity plea.
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Speaker 1: Claiming multiple personalities. The killer clown persona took over.
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Speaker 2: Basically Yeah, arguing he wasn't responsible because of a fractured psyche.
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But Gaysey himself kept undermining that defense wow by talking
19:31
constantly to the press in court, contradicting his own lawyer,
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trying to manipulate everyone, sometimes even trying to portray himself
19:38
as a victim of circumstance. It was a performance.
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Speaker 1: So how did the prosecution counter that?
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Speaker 2: Cuncle's team took a very direct approach. They didn't get
19:46
bogged down trying to unravel Gaysey's mind. They focused on
19:49
the facts, the methodical organization required for the crimes, the
19:54
planning exactly using his business to lure victims, the disposal
19:58
of the bodies. I argued this showed clear planning, clear
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understanding of right and wrong, total duplicity, not the actions
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of someone lost in his psychotic break. It dismantled the
20:10
insanity defense piece by piece.
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Speaker 1: And the show depicts this legal battle while sticking to
20:14
its restraint no.
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Speaker 2: Courtroom Gore seems so relying on dialogue implication, the tension
20:20
of the legal arguments themselves, using that three time line
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structure to keep building suspense without needing graphic depictions.
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Speaker 1: The final legal chapter, of course, was his execution nineteen ninety.
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Speaker 2: Four by lethal injection. Yes, closed the book legally, but
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the sources make a really interesting point point about closure.
20:37
What's that The series apparently highlights that even at the
20:40
very end, the victim's families were denied something. They weren't
20:43
given the option to witness the execution.
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Speaker 1: Really why not?
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Speaker 2: The reasons might have been bureaucratic or policy based at
20:49
the time, but the effect, according to the show's perspective,
20:53
was to deny them that final public moment of whatever
20:58
witnessing it might have provided closure, perhaps accountability.
21:02
Speaker 1: So another kind of unresolved justice even in death.
21:06
Speaker 2: That seems to be the point the show makes, that
21:08
single act of execution couldn't just erase decades of pain,
21:12
waiting and systemic neglect.
21:14
Speaker 1: That's a powerful note to end on, legally speaking, and
21:17
it ties back to the show's bigger mission right Moving
21:19
beyond the sensationalism.
21:21
Speaker 2: Definitely. It pulls the focus away from the pop culture
21:23
monster Gasey became, because let's face it, the killer clown thing.
21:27
Speaker 1: It became iconic anywise, Stephen kingsit exactly.
21:31
Speaker 2: Gasey fed into that archetype of corrupted innocence, the monster
21:34
hiding behind a smile. He became the ultimate boogeyman.
21:37
Speaker 1: But the series argues that's missing the point.
21:39
Speaker 2: It actively tries to deconstruct that myth. It keeps reminding
21:43
you Casey wasn't some supernatural entity lurking in the shadows.
21:47
He was a man, a manipulative, highly organized predator who
21:51
used a very common disguise, community involvement, business success to
21:56
hide unimaginable evil.
21:58
Speaker 1: The mundane disguise is the horror.
22:00
Speaker 2: That's the horror the show wants you to confront. It
22:03
shifts the focus from the pop culture myth back to
22:05
the painful human memory.
22:07
Speaker 1: And it doesn't just leave it at memory. It moves
22:08
into advocacy.
22:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is really interesting. This series doesn't end with
22:12
say Gasey's final moments. It ends with a tribute to
22:16
the victims, a roll call, a solemn roll call, yes,
22:19
and then crucially, a call.
22:20
Speaker 1: To action, what kind of action?
22:22
Speaker 2: It actually directs viewers to resources like the Cook County
22:25
Sheriff's website that are still working to identify those remaining
22:29
five unidentified victims.
22:30
Speaker 1: Wow, so it's actively trying to help close those cases.
22:33
Speaker 2: It transforms the true crime narrative from just recounting horror
22:37
into a functional appeal for ongoing justice. It pushes the
22:41
genre towards a kind of civic responsibility, acknowledging the story
22:44
isn't truly over.
22:45
Speaker 1: Okay. So, taking all this in, the restraint, the focus
22:49
on victims, the critique of the system, the call to action,
22:53
what's the big takeaway here? For us, for you the
22:56
listener trying to make sense of true crime?
22:59
Speaker 2: I think the takeaway is that restraint, when it's done
23:02
thoughtfully like this seems to be, isn't about hiding the truth.
23:06
It's about focusing it. Devil in Disguise uses the true
23:10
crime framework not just to shock or exploit, but to
23:14
really force an examination, an examination of the human cost yes,
23:18
but also critically of the societal complicity.
23:21
Speaker 1: The homophobia, the dismissal of certain.
23:23
Speaker 2: Lives, exactly the prejudices that essentially gave Gaysey cover for years.
23:27
The real learning, maybe is realizing that the devil in
23:29
disguise wasn't just Gaysey himself. He was also woven into
23:32
the fabric of the society that failed to see him
23:34
or failed to look for him because of who his
23:36
victims were perceived to be.
23:38
Speaker 1: That difference is critical, and the show bringing us back
23:41
again and again to Elizabeth Peacet in that car. It
23:44
makes you think, maybe the best measure of success for
23:46
analyzing true crime isn't how deeply we get inside the
23:50
killer's head. Maybe it's how well we remember the specifics,
23:53
those fragile human details, like those twenty minutes, like those
23:57
twenty agonizing minutes Elizabeth Peace waited, the moment ones that
24:00
represent innocence being shattered, trust being broken. So here's the
24:04
thought we want to leave you with today. As we
24:07
look around at our own world, with all its information,
24:09
its divisions, What societal blind spot, what systemic indifference towards
24:14
a particular group may be one that feels marginalized or invisible.
24:18
What might be allowing the next crisis, the next predator,
24:21
the next gaycy, to operate right now under our noses.
24:25
While we think we're paying attention, keep digging