Latest / 2nd City Gridiron / '85 at 40: Dan Pompei discusses the greatness of the '85 Bears

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'85 at 40: Dan Pompei discusses the greatness of the '85 Bears · 2nd City Gridiron

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome in Bears fans.
• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is eighty five at forty.
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a special single season series that second city gridiron is kicking off today.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very excited to be a part of this series.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to see a lot of me on this series.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're also going to see a lot of Jeff Burkis.
• 0:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to see a lot of Lester Willfong.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are the old heads of second city gridiron.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we know
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: probably too much there is to know about the nineteen eighty five Chicago bears.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to have this series is going to go throughout this season all the way into the playoffs and it's going to be celebrating the nineteen eighty five Chicago bears.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're at the forty year anniversary of this super ball team.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Probably really the last opportunity we're going to have to really celebrate this team when you get to the fiftyth anniversary stuff.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It starts to get a little too far away.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're probably a little too far away now, but that's okay because this team was something special to the city of Chicago and really the NFL as a whole and look.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I understand the rhetoric of the eighty-five bears has grown a little tires, especially for younger bears fans, especially for bears fans that didn't experience this team.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll be honest, I'm at about the youngest age.
• 1:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm forty seven years old.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm at about the youngest age.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: of someone who could remember this team and experience this team.
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: My family had season tickets.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was able to go to multiple games that season.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was able to go to the Washington game.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bears won that one forty five the ten.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was at the NFC championship game against the Rams with the Bears one twenty four nothing and I was fortunate enough.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was at Super Bowl, twenty, we had end zone seats really low to the field like third, fourth, fifth row.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was in the end zone where William Perry plunged in for that.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: What became a controversial touchdown years later when we realized the situation with Walter Peyton and how much it meant him to getting a touchdown and Mike Dick could getting caught up in the moment.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But let's talk about this team for a little bit and what we're going to do.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So throughout this season, we're going to have guests on.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: to celebrate the nineteen eighty five bears will do some media people we're going to do a lot of former players who were on this team maybe we'll do some opponents we're going to we're going to look at this team any which way we can and celebrate this team about how good this team was and how they were a dominant team for their era and could not exist in another era i mean yes this team could have existed in earlier years this team can exist in twenty twenty five
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: The rules have changed.
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Things that the bears did are wildly illegal now.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: The bears punished quarterbacks, punished quarterbacks for four quarters for sixteen regular season games and three playoff games.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what they did.
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: The amount of roughing the past or penalties they would have now doesn't mean the bears were dirty.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were playing within the rules as they were constructed in nineteen eighty five.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this is just not a brand of football that exists on today's field.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the Luther Burden block in preseason against a Marhamlin ever was like, oh, look at the pop he had on that.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: That that's how this defense hit players every play multiple players per play.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was just that kind of attacking field.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you go on YouTube and watch some of the Wilbur Marshall hits on quarterbacks from a blitzing linebacker.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was an
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely brutal brutal sport.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is not the same sport that we see now.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that was a big aspect of this eighty five bears was that brutal aggressiveness that that they had that junkyard dog mentality that they embraced.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were barking at offenses across the league.
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: especially during the cold weather.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: There was something that they embraced, that was part of who they were as a team.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what made them unique.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't just that it was the personalities.
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was Walter Payton who was, you know,
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: one of the best players in the sport and a top two or three player, him, Joe Montana, best non quarterback, our view may hammer Lawrence Taylor in the sport.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Peyton still looked at his one of maybe the top five players in NFL history.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jim McMahon, a massive personality, and he's going to come up throughout this podcast series, McMahon, because his statistics and it sounds like a cliche thing, oh, back in my day, this player was, you don't know how good this player was.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: For Jim McMan, it's really, you don't know how good this player was.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like Walter Peyton, you see the career statistics, you see the MVP, you see the things that backup how great he was.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously I'm not putting McMan in Peyton's category, but McMan was a fantastic quarterback.
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: When healthy, this guy was a top ten, top twelve quarterback in the league, which is what you want.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: The problem was Jim McMan couldn't stay on the field.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jim McMahon was eleven and oh in nineteen eighty five is the bears uh... you know bears quarter eleven and one but uh... no eleven and oh yeah it was eleven and all because four star that game in the McMahon came in against the dolphins he was eleven and i was a starter and yet he still missed five games because that was the issue McMahon couldn't stand the field partially because of how he played he just lowered his head and slammed his body around
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But what was the most fascinating thing to me about this team?
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was the personalities that made it on the defensive side of the ball?
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we can talk about, man, and we can talk about Peyton and how key this offense was.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mike Dick Garrandy, offense and buddy Ryan, ran the defense.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the personalities on the defensive side of the ball.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Otis Otis Wilson, a huge personality, the front four, every one of them was a huge personality, Richard Dent, Dan Hampton, Steve Michael William Perry, of course, a rookie in nineteen eighty five, you know, a phenomenon, once Dick could put him in the backfield and had some fun with him there.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this eighty five bearish team was just something special.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: It just resonated with the city.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It resonated nationally with the league.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Super Bowl shuffle of course comes out in November.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: In late November, they put that out.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how confident this team was about what they were going to be able to accomplish.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: on the football field and what they did accomplish they go fifteen and one course the loss of the Miami Dolphins on Monday night football and we'll get into that again as this series progresses I think that money night game was interesting because you hear a lot now as documentaries have come out about Mike Dick and buddy Ryan being on opposite you know sides of an argument Mike Dick a wanting buddy Ryan to go to a nickel
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Add that that was not as popular to do back then, especially, you know, buddy Ryan wanted to stick to his guns and run his defense.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mike Dicka wanted him to protect against the past better buddy Ryan wouldn't do it.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dan Reno of course, torches them.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: They score thirty eight points.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the one black eye on this team that kept them from going undefeated.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, the dolphins get knocked off by the Patriots in the AFC Championship game.
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the Chicago Bears really wanted to see the Miami Dolphins in that Super Bowl.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: They wanted their revenge.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: They wanted to be like, that was not us.
• 7:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was a blip on the radar.
• 7:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is us and they wanted to beat the Snot out of the Miami Dolphins.
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't get that chance.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So instead, they settled on
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely embarrassing the New England Patriots.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Patriots couldn't move the football all season.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: All game won.
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've had negative yards at halftime.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Only touchdown came that their field all came after Walter Peyton fumble.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: They went three and out, but we're able, they were in field goal range and we're able to kick a kick three points there.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the touchdown came in garbage time in the fourth quarter.
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: There was absolutely nothing that offenses can do against the eighty-five bears.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And out of every stat about the eighty-five bears, the one that stands out to me the most, the one that I love the most is this one.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it is, when you look at the playoffs, the bears, of course, beat the Giants to anyone, nothing, the Rams, twenty-four, nothing, and forty-six to ten in the Super Bowl against the Patriots.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: just looking at defense and special teams.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sean Gale returned a muffed kick from Sean Landetta, a punt for a touchdown in the divisional game.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Will remarshall picked up an Eric Dickerson fumble, returned it about fifty yards for a touchdown in the NFC championship game.
• 8:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Reggie Phillips, little known corner back after was in for Leslie Frazier, after Frazier went down with the knee injury in the Super Bowl, gets a pick six,
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: gets the six points there.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: They also had a safety in the super bowl as well.
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how they ended up with forty six points, five touchdowns, three field goals.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, be safety.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's their forty six points.
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when you look at that, you look at a team that's the defense and the special teams scored twenty three points in the playoffs and only allowed ten.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So forget the offense, the defense itself.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: One, every single one of those football games on their own.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're twenty three to ten.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: An absolutely mind blowing statistic, especially when you consider that the three points were on a three and out after a fumble and the touchdown from the Patriots came an absolutely mop up time where if the starters were still out there, they wouldn't have scored.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: In essence, the defense, the starting defense pitched a shutout for three straight games.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were an absolutely dominant football team.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we can talk about, you know, they had a stretch in the three game stretch against Dallas, Atlanta, and Detroit.
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: They won those three games by a combined score of a hundred and eight to three.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can talk about what Walter Payton was able to accomplish on as a running back at his age.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: truly phenomenal.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think nine, one hundred yard games in a row for Walter Peyton that season.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can talk about the leadership of Jim McMan.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can talk about Mike Dick and Buddy Ryan as coaches.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many aspects of this team we can talk about, but the dominance that this team had in the playoffs is what really separates it.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Make no mistake about it.
• 9:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Other teams have won fifteen games and won a Super Bowl.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But to win games in the fashion that they did in the postseason, not against bad teams against playoff,
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: However, teams, they absolutely throttle them, embarrass them, show them that they had no business being on the field with them.
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's that postseason dominance where, and again, it's an impossible question.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to ask this to a lot of people throughout this series.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is this eighty-five bears the greatest single season team of all time?
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's important to say single season because you can look at what Bill Bellachek and Tom Brady accomplished over the years.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can look at what the steel curtain did in the seventies.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can look at Lombardi in the sixties with the Packers.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can look at these great teams over the years, even Luckman and Hallis in the forties.
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can look at them and say these were great teams and they had more success over four, five, six, seven years than the, nineteen, eighty Chicago Bears.
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But for one single season.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: The eighty-five bears to me is the greatest single-season team in NFL history.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: At the Patriots, because the Patriots had that kind of dominance.
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Had they beaten the Giants, had Brady beaten the Giants in that Super Bowl.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's your argument.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: They would have gone undefeated.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's your argument for the greatest single-season team of all time, but they didn't get it done.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: The bears got it done, and that's what separates them.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: For my money, the greatest single season team in NFL history.
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to take a quick break.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when we come back, we are going to be joined by Chicago Bears historian and longtime writer Dan Pompeii of the athletic.
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to kick this series off.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Bears, eighty-five at forty.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bill Zimmerman will be right back.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the first episode of eighty five at forty.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Bill Zimmerman.
• 11:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's no better person to start this off with than a longtime Chicago Bears writer.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's been in part of the Chicago Media Landscape for many years.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: He knows this team.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: He knows Chicago Bears history inside and out.
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is Dan Pompeii of the athletic.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he joins me now.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dan Bill Zimmerman.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to eighty five at forty.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's good to be with you, Bill, good to be talking about the eighty-five bears as we've been doing for the last forty years.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a story that never gets old and it's always fun to talk about.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it really is because there's just something about this team and I know the city of Chicago love this team dearly and we'll get into that a little bit and maybe the rhetoric has grown a little tiresome for some of the younger fans, mostly because there's been such little success since nineteen eighty-five to twenty twenty- twenty-five, but you know, I was a kid when this team
• 12:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: was was a huge deal and I love this team posters on the wall, you know, everything.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there was something about this team that kids and the city just really gravitated towards, I don't know if it was the defensive dominance, if it was the personality, if it was guys like Walter Peyton and Jim McMan on offense, what was it for you that made this team?
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like this is the only team that's one, fifteen games in NFL history.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: What was it about this team that just said it apart?
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now it was kind of the perfect storm.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that in my lifetime I've ever seen another NFL team or or even sports team quite like it that capture the imagination of so many people.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, as you mentioned, it had star quality obviously with some of the greatest players of all time Hall of Famers left and right.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It had a coach who kind of embraced
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: that the whole idea of showmanship and let his players show their personalities and had fun with it.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, he's a Hall of Famer himself and a great former Chicago bear.
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You had a cutting edge scheme that really left a lot of offenses unable to cope with it in many ways.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you had just great players in every position.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So much personality throughout the team.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: The team came along at a time.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think when there was a lot of exposure that wasn't there previously, you know, it was kind of like the advent of the age where you had sports talk radio and ESPN and some of these other things and the media was growing and we were starting to get to know
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: athletes in a way that we didn't previously.
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it just had so many things going for it that made it a phenomenon that was unlike anything I think that had ever been and probably has never been since.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think what's interesting about this team when you actually look at the makeup of the roster is you've got one of the I would think most people would say consensus stories top five players in NFL history in Walter Peyton running the football and what he was able to do to help with ball control.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: and at that age, it's not like he was twenty six years old.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was in his early thirties at that point.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you had this, but the team is known for its defense and then relentless pressure of the quarterback.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I find that interesting.
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like usually if a team's known for a great offense, it's that quarterback or that running back that's associated with it.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying that Dent and Hampton and Singletarian, these guys weren't known names, but I think it's interesting that this, at eighty five bears defense is what you think about, but at the same time,
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: you have a player like Walter Payton running the football on the other side.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think a couple of things that worked here.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, the defense was not only a great defense.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was probably my opinion that the best defense of the modern era and really left opposing offenses and quarterbacks without any answers and how to attack it.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the offense made the defense even better.
• 16:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: The bears offense, I should say.
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Walter Peyton because it was very complimentary.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: The ball control style that they played and able to defendors to stay fresh.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this was in the days before they were rotating past rushers.
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So those guys were on the field, dense and hampton and Michael Perry.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Heart and state also rotated in there a lot.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they weren't coming on and off the field like they do nowadays.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they were playing a lot of snaps.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they were unable to be fresh and relatively healthy because the offense took the load off.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was not only Walter, it was a great offensive line too.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they've got one Hall of Famer and Jim Covert.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It should have another and Jay Hillgumberg.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it really was a special unit of blockers.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you had Jim McMahon who really orchestrated the whole thing offensively.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it was just
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: the perfect quarterback and leader for that unit.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let me start on the defensive side of the ball.
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to start with a really basic question, just as kind of a ground setting question here, because I think a lot of younger fans, they know about all the sacks and everything that the eighty-five bears generated.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But what was the forty-six defense?
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we talk about schemes and everything nowadays.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't talk about it as much then.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: What was Buddy Ryan's forty-six defense?
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was basically a way of overloading
• 17:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: blocking schemes, so they had no answer for some of the past rosters, and they also were able to blitz in creative ways, send different people at different times, and keep quarterbacks guessing as to who was coming, really keep offensive lineman guessing too, because if they committed one way, they were likely to leave a gap open that someone else could exploit, and
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was, it was a scheme that buddy really started to use with great success in Minnesota when he was the defensive line coach there and Neil Armstrong was the defensive coordinator under buddy Grant and Neil came here as a head coach brought buddy.
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: As his defensive coordinator and that's when he started to use the forty six he called it the forty six because that was the number of it dug plank war right and you know it it dug of course wasn't around for the eighty five bears but you know he was around spirit because.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: his jersey number was the name of that great defense and you know Hampton was such a key to that forty-six defense because he would line up in the middle of the field on on the center and you know one guy couldn't block him so they had to they had to often commit more than one blocker to Hampton
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh... which now really left them vulnerable uh... to to a ablitzing lineback or notice Wilson Wilbur Marshall uh... whoever it was and you know you said guys who could win one on one battles on top of all that i mean he had a scheme really help but they almost didn't need a scheme i mean Richard dent you know do you really need uh... any help to get him free he could defeat almost any offensive tackle he went against
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and let's talk about the defensive line a little bit further because you brought up Dan Hampton and I know it's crazy to say this about a Hall of Fame player, but I almost feel like Dan Hampton is underrated because I just felt like he was such a dominant player had such a ability.
• 19:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: He could rush from the inside, rush from the outside.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You could line him up all across that defensive front.
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Something that, and you correct me if I'm wrong, that I don't think a lot of defense of coaches did as much then.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: We see it a lot more today.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, you know, you hear that, oh, we'll single Terry was the guy in the middle of that defense and Wilber Marshall noticed Wilson with the blitzing and dent coming off the edge.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like, you know, Mongo was the spirit of the defense.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like Hampton's name is brought up quite as much when you can, I think, really argue that he was the best player on that defense.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you definitely can argue that.
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, there are some statistics that I don't have handy, but that I researched many years ago when he was a Hall of Fame candidate that will tell you the bears, you know, he missed a lot of time over
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: the years with different knee injuries.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And whenever he missed time, they weren't anywhere near as effective defensively or really as an entire team as they were with him and there.
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he was really, he was a key to the whole thing.
• 20:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was just a great player.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: As you said, versatile, you know, he played outside, he played inside.
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was just a record.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wrecked offences.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it all started with him really.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, but still many, that doesn't detract from, you know, my color or single tear or head thinner will be marshal or Wilson, you know, any of the guys up front and then certainly, you know, they were getting the job done in the back end as well.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, they had it, they had everything in space.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that secondary I think is interesting because when you're bringing the pressure like that, obviously, you're not, you know, and it wasn't as prolific of a passing, you know, league in in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in,
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: talk about those guys as much.
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Buddy Ryan really had to trust them that he, they could stay sticky in their coverage.
• 21:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, the idea was they'd get to the quarterback before they guys had a chance to get open, but you really still had to trust that secondary.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You did, you know, Fraser in particular was really an outstanding player.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think had he stayed healthy, you know, that was really
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: for all purposes of the end of his career with a super ball when he blew out his knee.
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: He had said healthy.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he would have been recognized as one of the league's best cornerbacks because he, you know, he came out of nowhere.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was not one of these guys who came into the league in the first round or anything like that, but ended up developing into a really, really fine football player that enabled the bears, as you said, to leave him isolated against really good receivers.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, as you say, Richardson, you know, he did his job too for the most part.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was a little more up and down, never, never quite as consistent as Fraser.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, they did enough to get the job done, and certainly they had a lot of help from Gary Fensick and Dave Dorerson, and then, you know, and even in subsequent years when they got Todd Bellback in previous years, he was a big factor as well.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let me ask you one more micro question and then a couple couple big pictures here before I let you go and the one is about Jim McMahon and I know you brought him up and in one of your earlier answers and to me when if you just bring up Jim McMahon statistics you sit there and go, that's enough in quarter
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: back.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you just see it just no different than anyone else.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you watch Jim McMahon play, there was something about him.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: This, he knew how to command an offense.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: He knew how to rise to the occasion.
• 23:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of clutch moments in the fourth quarter, not just that season, but throughout his career.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, the injuries
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: played a huge factor in that.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, I think that's a huge factor in eighty-six and eighty-seven, you know, where this team didn't, you know, continue to potentially win more super bowls was the health of the quarterback and thus lead guys like Doug Flutey and Mike Tomz, that can guys like that at the quarterback position.
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what was it for you watching Jim McMahon play?
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was this guy one of the top ten twelve quarterbacks of his era?
• 24:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or was it more of the pedestrian statistics if you look at his career statistics?
• 24:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because like the one thing that stands out to me, and yes, this was a defensive orient at team and all that.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about that.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: His win loss percentage and I know quarterback wins isn't really a stat, but his win loss percentage in in the mid-eighties when he was on the field.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: The bears record was astronomically good.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I think the thing about him was instinct, feel ability to adjust.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was off the charts as good as anybody I've ever seen.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he didn't have the physical ability that a lot of quarterback's had.
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as you said, he couldn't stay healthy.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think if he had stayed healthy, the bears would have won at least two more super balls.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, he couldn't stay on the field and that cost him and it cost them.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a source of a lot of discontentment over the years too.
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, look,
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: If Caleb Williams had Jim McMahon's field for the game, you put him straight in the hole thing.
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's how special all of that was.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to me, that's really what makes the quarterback.
• 25:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And those kinds of things, the ability to kind of grasp the game at the proper moment, the
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: knowing when a guy is going to break, understanding what a defensive coordinator is trying to do to you, you know, all of those things.
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: He had like a sixth sense and it was really what made him special and what made that offense work.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I just looked it up from eighty four to eighty eight.
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jim McMahon's record when he was on the field and he started a game thirty six and five, which is just an absolutely insane record.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let me ask you just two more here Dan and the first one is heading into the season because I don't think that's something we think about too much.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: We think about afterwards and and and everything this team accomplished winning the Super Bowl of course.
• 26:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But heading into the season the season before they'd gone ten and six to solid record, but they did make it to the NFC championship game before the Niners ousted them in that game.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: What were the expectations for this team going in?
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like did people consider this as Super Bowl contended and people think this is just more of a maybe a playoff team?
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like where was this team in kind of a national landscape in August of nineteen eighty five?
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were very high expectations for the bears.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot of enthusiasm for the team.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you looked at what they did in the eighty-four and kind of what their character was, what their mental makeup was, their determination.
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were at the point when a lot of their young players were coming into their own.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was very obvious.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: They had that
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: great draft class of nineteen eighty three one of the great draft classes in their history really any history you know with Jim covert willy galt and mark boards Richard Dent Tom player you know these guys were all just kind of start to feel it in eighty five and it was it was very evident and they were joining you know guys who are already kind of established stars like Hampton and
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: and Walter Payton and Michael and Fensick.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it was the perfect time for that team to be as good as it could ever be.
• 27:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And let me ask you with this, because I think this is the one thing that is really, really special about this team.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it gets, it's the postseason run.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, they beat the Giants, twenty-one nothing, Rams, twenty-four nothing, Patriots, forty-six to ten.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, when you add everything up, and you have a total of ninety-one to ten, you're talking about absolutely dominating, playoff, caliber, football teams.
• 28:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But taking the offensive performance aside,
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: The defense and special teams.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I forget field goals.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just talking about the Sean Gale will call it a punt return against the Giants.
• 28:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the defense itself had the Sean Gale score, had Wilbur Marshall score against the Rams, had the Reggie Phillips pick six in the Super Bowl with a safety as well.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: The defense outscored their opponents
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: twenty free to ten and that seven points was a garbage touched on in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: The dominance of this defense that they were outscoring their opponents in every game is one of the most insane stats that I think will just never be duplicated and I think that that dominance of that postseason run to me is where when you sit there and say greatest teams of all time and people's all you can't compare eras and you got the
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: steel curtain and you got the Montana Niners and Brady Patriots and all that.
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: But a run like the Bears had in that postseason is something that I think really separates this team and puts their mark as potentially the greatest single season team of all time.
• 29:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's great point.
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the team really peaked at the right time.
• 29:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: It probably was helped to that peak by what happened on that Monday night in Miami because I think they needed a good slap in the face and they got one by Dan Moreno that night and you know, it helped them kind of
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: redirect their course, refocus, and start that march to where they just kept getting better and better and better.
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if the Super Bowl wasn't the last game, if they played a seventeen game season back then or whatever, and they kept going, I mean, they might have gotten better, better, better.
• 29:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was just how it was going.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they stayed healthy, which obviously doesn't always happen.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was a key.
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think they really
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there was no stopping them and everybody knew it.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They certainly knew it.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you got to the point where you almost felt sorry for the team they had to play.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you really did with the punishment that defense laid out.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the great, you know, just quick answer.
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the greatest single season team of all time in your eyes?
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, I think
• 30:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a tough question.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's an impossible question.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's an impossible question, but I mean, I haven't seen one that was more dominant than them, for sure.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, they did everything very well.
• 30:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as you said earlier, they weren't a great passing team, but most teams weren't those days.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously the
• 30:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: the dolphins that I just mentioned were kind of on the verge of becoming one.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there were some teams that were ahead of others in that regard and the bears were not one of them.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, you couldn't do everything anyway.
• 31:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's only so many ways to go at it.
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they did enough in so many phases to consider them as dominant.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is it any team I've ever seen?
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there you go.
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is Dan Pompe from the athletic long time Chicago sports writer and really Chicago sports is story and especially with the Chicago Bears.
• 31:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dan, thanks for so much time.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Really appreciate you helping me kick off this series, eighty five and forty.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Enjoy the season here.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this this bear seemed forty years later can make some noise.
• 31:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll finally get something else to talk about besides eighty five bears, right?
• 31:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 31:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much Dan.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, there it is, Dan Pompeii, eighty-five and forty bills.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Zimmerman, thanks so much.
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you next time.
• 31:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bear down.