Latest / Built by People / The Unexpected Power of Personal Branding in B2B Industry Growth
Transcript
- speaker-0: Hello, and welcome to Built by People, a DFL podcast that delivers some topical industry insight with a hint of fun, chatting about all things highway infrastructure in the built environment. I'm your host, Richard Jackson. Let's get straight into it. Hi guys, I'm delighted to have Amelia Bateman-Wood of the Social Climate Agency, who is managing director and founder of the said agency. Now, me and Amelia go way back. We've been working together for, I want to say, five years maybe. And I'm really excited to bring our first external guest on and to start talking about all things marketing, personal brand, business brand, anything and everything on her career so far and how she flipped from employee to employer. So straight over to you, Amelia, how you feeling? speaker-1: Yeah, I'm all good. you very much. This is my first time on a podcast. I was on a radio show the other day, but obviously you listened to that. Yep. Which was kind of like a podcast, but a little bit different. was 9pm at night, bit more relaxed. Now I'm in an office environment. When I'm behind the cameras, wherever you are, I feel a lot more comfortable, but now I'm here. I'm like, okay, actually it is a bit difficult. speaker-0: You'll be absolutely fine. Thank you. you will be pleased to know that that was your audition when you did that. Yes. And you passed with flying colors. And I was like, Amelia, I need to get you on this podcast. Amazing. So I guess let's start. Why don't you introduce us to you, your business and a bridge version, if you like, of how you got to where you are today. speaker-1: Yeah, so as Rich said, I am Amelia Bateman Wood and I actually set up the social climber, it's called the Social Climber Agency, but I go by Social Climber just because it's a lot nicer, ⁓ in 2020, so during COVID, ⁓ which probably shouldn't have done because I was working for someone at the time and I was furloughed and I just got a little bit bored. So decided to set up an agency because why not? ⁓ I was working internally at a financial company at the time, so it wasn't like a competition thing or anything. ⁓ And then tried to get some clients and did during that time, which was crazy, because obviously financially in terms of 2020, businesses weren't exactly thriving. And then back to the day job after the pandemic and went back to agency life, had a couple more jobs since then. and then sort of things happened and now I'm here. speaker-0: ⁓ I think that's really interesting where you talk about that you just took the plunge. ⁓ I think as with anything, if anything I've learned in business, you can sit there and procrastinate about perfection. But progress is a key thing. You just have to jump in and get on with it. speaker-1: That is my, that's been my motto forever. think it was, is it Richard Branson that said it? That said, just say yes and figure out how to do it later. Yeah. Something like that. And I've always said that, rightly or wrongly, I've always said it. speaker-0: You know his story of how he set up Virgin. speaker-1: Yes, I listened to... speaker-0: Is it the same podcast we listen to? speaker-1: I listened to the book, the audio it was, I was very much like, this is just amazing. Like how the hell has he got to this, where he is now. And, you know, I don't know about Richard Branson as a guy, you what, what, what's going on, but his business story is like unbelievable. speaker-0: But it's so simple with the airline. wanted to fly, I'll say name drop, BA won't care, wanted to BA. They couldn't put the flight on. So he just made a few phone calls, worked out how to charter a plane and then sold it. And look where Virgin Atlantic is now. It's crazy, but it shows every business starts somewhere. And it's great to see, like I say, me and you started, we were working, you were employed at an agency that we were working with. You've helped DFL through the ages with loads of content. speaker-1: kids in the pool. speaker-0: We grew and did a lot of our own marketing. Then we came up with this bonkers podcast idea and I was like, I know exactly the person that can help. I'm trying to think how did that phone call come about? I know it was a coffee and you were like, that actually sounds like a good idea. I was like, let's go. speaker-1: You phoned me, don't know what day it was, let's say it was a Tuesday morning and I saw on my mobile, it just said Richard Jackson. And I was like, what on earth does he want? ⁓ Picked up and you said, I've got a bit of a mad idea. Do want to meet for coffee? And I was like, yeah, perfect. Let's do it. And we met and you said, I want to start a podcast. And like you said, I actually thought that's a great idea because of all the stuff that, which we will touch upon because of all the stuff that you do online anyway. getting yourself out there, trying to advocate for the rest of your company to do that for themselves as well. I was like, well, yeah, podcast makes perfect sense for you to interview either people internally or people externally. And here we are. speaker-0: And one of the questions I was really intrigued at in terms of your journey is how's that transition been from employee to employer, so to speak, where it's all on you? Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Like that. It does feel like that. Yeah. I mean, I'm lucky in a way because I don't have people yet on the books permanently. So I work with a lot of freelancers at the moment, but I will eventually build out a little bit more. ⁓ but still even that, think it's more for me, it's less about the responsibility of, you know, making sure that people can pay their mortgages, et cetera. It's more about being firm. So I'm not a very firm person. I'm not very. Don't know what the word is, but I, I'm a people pleaser. So if someone does something wrong, I'll be like, that's okay. No worries. Let's just move on. Whereas this is now a point where say you come to me and you say, need X. I personally can't do it, but I know my freelancer can. So I go, that's fine. We'll sort it out. We, as in social climate, we'll sort it out. I get the freelancer to do it. They come back with something that I'm not happy with. It's that conversation that has taken. pretty much, this has been almost two years, it's that conversation that I'm just now getting better at being like, I don't like this, can you revisit? And being firm but fair, and it's teaching me what I will be like as an employer at some point. speaker-0: And one of the things is really interesting because we've seen a massive growth and the business strategically looks at AI and how AI can help us from a engineering perspective. One thing's clearly obvious to me when we're using LinkedIn and other social media platforms, AI to create... say fake images, they're not. It's ⁓ AI imagery and videography and stuff like that. What are your thoughts on that in the marketing sector? Because I'm going to come straight out and say it, like everyone's doing it. And I keep saying to our engineering teams and stuff like that, AI is here. It is a great tool, but I don't think it will ever replace authenticity. And I think authenticity shines through on anything. It surprises me with the kids when they go, well, that's AI, that's AI and stuff like that. But as a marketing perspective, what are your thoughts on AI and how do you see that evolving? speaker-1: AI is great. some, I mean, marketers at the start, I think we all panicked a little bit because of what it can do. You could ask it to give you a 12 month marketing strategy and it will. But whether or not it works for your business, whether or not it can then ever change with you as well and actually be something that can be implemented because it's very nice. It's like getting a workout from AI is going, I need a five week program, I work out three times a week at the gym, give me, give me this program. They can give you the program, but then if you, what are you going to do? Do you, are you going to take yourself to the gym? Are you going to do it? Are you going to turn up and be accountable for it? It's kind of obviously different things, but it's kind of the same way you actually then need to do the things that it's told you to do. So that's kind of one area of it, the imagery and the post-creation and that side of things. I think that there's a place to get started. So I use it as if I'm struggling when my brain's all over the place and I'm not sure how to get an idea down on writing. Instead of getting it to produce the whole post for me, I'll just say, this is what I want to say. Can you sort of give me a loose structure? And then I'll write it from there. Same with images. So a client, I think it was a few weeks ago, they were like, we're going to an event. We're giving this away. We need like a poster. that's going to sit on our event, blah, blah. Gave me all the information. And my mind, it was like the afternoon, but they needed it by the next morning. And I was like, what do I want this to look like? So I went on to, plaud, I think it was, and I said, this is the information. How should I design it? It told me how to do it. And then I went away and designed it. I didn't ask it to produce me a poster, which it could have done. Once again, making sure that everything is. appropriate for brand guidelines because you might give them a hex code or whatever a color say this is our color and it might just be an offshoot of it. And then every time someone around the company does that, it changes your whole brand. So I do think that there's a place for it. I think that people can work at least one and a half times more than they ever could do before. So the, need for hiring is smaller. However, it hasn't replaced marketers and you having your own voice as well. speaker-0: Yeah, I think I totally agree with you. At first I used it and I was all in on it. It was doing everything for me. And then you quickly realize it can't, it just doesn't quite get it. If that makes sense. And the best way I describe it now, particularly from a marketing function, sorry, is a creative assistant. Yes. It can assist you in doing things, give you ideas. can put your bullet points down. It starts to evolve something. But one thing again, hopefully it's not giving away trade secrets on this. I think it's more algorithms. We talk about LinkedIn now. people kind of know I'm on LinkedIn quite a bit. It always strikes me how, and I might just be overthinking this, but on LinkedIn, if you use AI generated content, it seems to know, is that a thing? Can it read metadata and stuff like that or image data? speaker-1: I think it probably can. That's not verbatim, so don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure that it will, it's more about quality content. So it will filter the same with any sort of social platform or advertising platform. It knows quality content and it normally gets that via the interaction with said content. I think, and if you're spitting out so much AI generated content over a period of time, the engagement on it will be lower. ⁓ the relevance to your page and what you're putting out will be less because you're just kind of spilling rubbish essentially, or things that if I always think as well, sorry, I'm completely going off tangent, but basically I think it will penalize you in the, the long run just because of engagement. But I, my rule of thumb is if you can't then go into a meeting the next day and someone asks you about that topic and you can relay it as well as you've just posted about it. Don't post it just because of authenticity and you just look like a bit of a... speaker-0: My hot take is the hyphen. speaker-1: Yeah, the M-dash. Is that cool? It's called an M-dash. And the only reason I know that is because I work with a very good copywriter who you do know as well. Okay. And I work with two actually. They're both very, very good. If anyone ever needs a copywriter. Now you're busy again. Yeah. No, they are actually very, good. But they get really annoyed because, so we write a lot of social posts for our clients and they don't use AI. They create obviously the copy themselves, but I've never noticed them before until they've become an AI thing. But there are certain situations where an ⁓ dash is obviously needed. That's why it's around. they'll the post over to the client and the client will go, this is AI. And they're like, it's not. And they can literally just take that out, replace it with something else. And the client's like, yeah, yeah, great. And so, but that is definitely a giveaway. Emojis is also a big giveaway. You know, it like bullet points or like that's, that's a very big giveaway. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah I didn't know that. I love putting a light bulb in. speaker-1: I think light bulb works and for your industry. And then always look out for the CTAs because it's all the, me know, like, you let me know what you think. And yeah, that works in some settings, but try and mix up your call to action so that it's not just sounding like AI. speaker-0: Cheesy AI should Exactly, yeah. I hope you're enjoying the show so far. Our goal with this is to build something for the whole industry to feel a part of. So please don't forget to like and subscribe and drop a comment with any thoughts or suggestions for future episodes. We're a world of AI and everything that's coming. You can't beat that human interaction, can you? You talk about the copy and stuff like that. And I think one of the things we're seeing, and again, what we're trying to create and promote from the podcast, is building personal brand. back in... what 10, 15 years ago, I would say personal brand wasn't really a thing unless it was in hardcore social media circles, know, like influencer type. But it seems over the past five years that this line between professional brand and personal brand, but there is no line. I don't think is. I think it is just one thing and it's how you uniquely merge your personal brand with a professional brand. Now as a business, we sit there and I really struggle with that because I want my guys to build a personal brand. live with them forever. But sometimes that gets intrinsically linked to the business brand and it's how you can couple and uncouple them. What are your thoughts on all that? speaker-1: I think that building a personal brand is the best thing that you could ever do for the business that you work in, but also your future career, because you can change that. So if you left DFL tomorrow and you went and started something else or worked somewhere else, yes, people might for a bit link you with DFL, but it would move on quite quickly because they're following you. And I think that when I speak to And to be honest, a lot of salespeople, which I think is wild that salespeople don't want to build their personal. And when I say build your personal brand, I mean it as in like, know that you're building it. These, everyone has a personal brand, whether you know it or not. Your personal brand is what other people think of you when they walk into a room, when you chat to them, how you make them feel all of it is part of it. So why not put a bit of effort into that? And how I always think about it, especially for salespeople, business development or founders is I. Look at like my mom, for example, and I'll speak to my mom and she goes, ⁓ I saw, I dunno, insert X celebrity here has bought out a new clothing line with insert clothing company here. And I really like their stuff. So I think I'm going to buy it. And I'm like, there's no, if that was released by anyone else, she wouldn't look twice at it. But because she likes that person that's endorsing it, that's all of a sudden become of interest with her. Link that into your business. And it's like, well, this just makes perfect sense because even if it's not clothing and it's a bit more boring and service-based, bringing a little bit of trust into that, people liking you because they're seeing your face on social media, they're trusting you because you're speaking sense and you've got a bit of knowledge on it, they're going to purchase from you rather than someone that's not trying to grow that, if that makes sense. speaker-0: Yeah, it makes total sense because it amazes me, like I say, I'm here doing what I do in the exterior lighting industry, this, that, the other, and a lot of what I do is talking to clients and building relationships and stuff like that. And as a consultancy in engineering, maybe I'm totally off the mark, but you don't see people promoting their brand like this. We've been talking about it on other... ⁓ What's the word? Other little projects that we've got going forward where I want to get the personality across. I want to get the people across. We've got great people in DFL and it's like, how can we bring their personal brands out? it strikes me. think it's that generational thing. Cause I, we sit there and in, in the highway electrical sector, we're a very middle age sector that has done the normal. And I do panic sometimes when I do stuff like this and people are going, what are you doing, Rich? Why are you doing it? And a lot of the content. doesn't land with some people. And I think that's a really important thing. ⁓ I spoke to the guys, obviously you saw the previous podcast we did on the Lamp Academy and stuff like that. It's just taking a moment to speak to them and say, not everyone's going to like or understand what you're doing and why you're doing it, but you have to understand why you're doing it. And everything we're doing here is that authenticity that people can say, I know Rich, I've seen him talk. I know he talks on that subject, this subject, whatever. And I think I found it really important. know we were talking and I was like, who should I bring on? Who should I bring on? the epiphany. sat there, you're looking me in the face, it's Amelia that we're all these podcasts with and stuff like that. In terms of personal brand, where do people start? speaker-1: I was going to sort of open this out to you to be fair because in my opinion, and I want to get your take on it, I put myself off of filming anything, uploading anything, posting on LinkedIn for ages because I was worried about what everyone was going to think of me. And it wasn't even necessarily business people, it was my friends. I was worried about my friends finding something or all clients of mine and being like, God, like, you know, if she thinks she's an influencer or whatever. And as soon as I've pressed publish on any singular piece of content that I've ever put out, A, I've never regretted it because I've obviously done it for a reason. And B, as soon as I press publish, I forget about it. And then when people start interacting, you get the dopamine from it, know, selfish or whatever the word is point of view. But then you're like, ⁓ okay, this is actually hitting people and I can have a conversation about this. And then you just forget about all the shame and embarrassment of it. when that's kind of like say what I want to spin to you when you started because you started you've been doing this a long time in terms of on LinkedIn and you've been posting videos as I think as long as I've known you. speaker-0: That's perception a little bit. Because I only made a conscious effort to start posting more video content in 2026. ⁓ speaker-1: No, maybe I've just seen a lot this year and I've been like, Oh, yeah, always does it. speaker-0: I've always been posting on LinkedIn and that's because I can see the value in it. ⁓ It's very hard. It goes back to that blurred line between professional brand and personal brand. I panic and think, should I, shouldn't I post? And for a long time I let it, that fear overrule anything I did. But then I soon realized and said to myself and was honest with myself. If I believe in it, posting it, if it's, let's get it right. I don't think I can post anything too controversial when it comes to lighting and stuff like that. Well, maybe I can. There's a challenge, but if you're doing it from a good place and if it goes wrong, you're willing to learn from it and improve from it and change from it, this, that, the other, then I really don't think you can go wrong. But the big thing for me was I would be on LinkedIn all the time and you'd see the picture. ⁓ I shouldn't be too harsh or you wouldn't even see a picture. You would just see the text. And how quickly do you flick through that text and it's not landing, it's not getting interaction. And like it or not, the whole reason we're doing this is to get them to stop on the post to click more or slide on the carousel. There's a slight side to that. Obviously I'm on Instagram. You know me on Instagram. I'm running mad. Everyone in the industry knows I'm running mad, but you see trends that come through from there and you can see that video content is a massive trend. People's time is short now. People do not want to an essay on something unless they're getting deeper meaningful content that's educating them. They don't want to read an essay. So what's the quickest way to get your point across or your personality cross? Talk. Crack on and speaker-1: Exactly. So easy. speaker-0: I still hate it. I will let you go through these reels and find the right clip. But you know, we've been recording all morning and there's elements where I go, ⁓ my God, I've got that totally wrong or I've totally messed this up. But that's me. It is what it is. And I do think I want all the younger guys and girls within DFL to build their brand. But I do think there's a, I call it seasons, but as you get older, now I'm older. What matters changes. you you can see it all over TikTok. I don't go near TikTok. I've slowly see little bits of TikTok, but people, the younger generations are posting on TikTok around hobbies and know, how to's this, that, the other. That's, I'm, you know, trying to promote business and stuff like that. So I'm a bit more relaxed. It's less how I look. but I'm me, I'm not, I've got to a stage in life where I'm like, take me as I am. Exactly. And that's hard, I totally get that because there's young people growing up and they're looking to start a career, a house, relationships and It's a lot. There's a lot going on and like I say, I'm fortunate that I can just sit there and enjoy it for what it is. It can flop and the hardest thing is half of it does flop. speaker-1: It does. speaker-0: Algorithms will always promote the good stuff and suppress the not so good stuff. it's just to keep going. speaker-1: And I think we can take note of the younger generation because I, I was chatting to my friend the other day and she was, and I just FYI, I do not agree with this at all. think that this is horrendous, but it's just interesting as to where, where we are going is she said that I think most people in her son's class and her son is 10 have a YouTube channel and they're actively upload to YouTube. Okay. Imagine once again, do not agree with that, but They have no, like they're just like, ⁓ yeah, this is what I want to do. So I'm going to just post. Why don't we all think like 10 year olds and just go, I want to get my, get myself out there, whether it be business or whatever. I'm just going to film a bit. And I will say that as well. Like you say, if you mess up, mess up, just put your iPhone out, start filming and figure it out from there. If you mess up, just keep going, keep going. All of the clips that I ever have lost. a lot longer than what you see at the end, because you've just got to take out a load of fluff. But it's much better, like you say, than writing just a long piece of text that, and as well, sorry to flit here, but like you saying about running, I find it interesting when people do, I know that like your Instagram is different to your LinkedIn, however, everyone in the industry knows you like running and that is also an amazing thing to utilize is your hobbies and a little bit of like peep behind the curtain. I'm not saying, you know, we don't need to know your wife's name and how many kids you've got and where exactly where you live in the world. It's like, just give a little bit of your personality. And because you are like running obsessed, that makes perfect sense. And then if you walk into a meeting or there's a run club at the event that you're going to soon, they'll instantly think of you. They've got, ⁓ running rich. And even me, I've like throughout the years, there's been certain things where I'm like, ⁓ I wonder if Richard's doing that, you know? And it sounds silly, but it's just another way in. even if you do videos talking about something not related to business. speaker-0: I, from my perspective, if there's a number, there's a couple of things we spoke about there. Yeah. From my perspective, if there's a number one hack I would give anyone, and I am not a marketing guru, is don't be afraid to give a little bit of yourself. Yes. Don't be plastic. We go, hello, my name is Richard. Yeah. And the reason I say that is because I can think off the top of my head, there's two or three. really influential relationships I've got in business that started through a comment about running. Because they were talking about on a social media platform, you know, really proud of myself, I've just done this. And I said, I love doing that. And they're like, oh, that's amazing. Next time we're at an event, let's do this or the other. you have to bring something different to the room. And I'm not saying from a shock perspective, but if I walk into a room, and tell everyone we're a design consultancy. They've met 10 lighting design consultancies before. I can sit and tell them that we're the best lighting design consultancy because our vision is all about quality, competency. They've heard all that before, but if I start talking to them and ask a question that gets their personality out a little bit, it really starts to deliver to another level of how you can speak to people. speaker-1: Exactly. It opens it out to them because like you say, if you're scrolling through, let's say LinkedIn again, and you're seeing boring things, hi, I'm Richard, this is, we're DFL. Like this morning, once again, it's related to running, but I like running as well. A client of mine has just done a marathon. So she posted to say, you know, pictures of me. And it was literally like, I've run a marathon, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Normally people would link it to some sort of business. I'm not going to do that. I'm just super proud of myself. And everyone's like, that stopped me in my tracks because it wasn't just, I'm at a conference this week and we're doing this. speaker-0: And I think, again, as we bring it back to LinkedIn, and if there's any value in terms of, if anyone is watching this in terms of how they can progress, the hardest thing is you will talk business technical content and you'll be like, I know this, that the other, DFL do this, that the other, that personal post will be the one that gets the most traction. Exactly. And there'll be people that sit there and go, this is LinkedIn, you shouldn't be talking about personal stuff. But this is just where the lines are blurred. I think it's across a number of platforms and it's really, it's it's tricky to navigate. I think, again, I was chatting to one of the guys the other day. I feel a bit self inflated saying this. I get a lot of interaction or likes and this, that, other, but you have to put that and it comes back to the marketing funnel that I have about, I'm not going to go into numbers. I have a lot of followers, say, that then transcends down into a lot of likes and then a few comments. And these guys that come to me go, I'm rich, I've just posted this. but no one's liked it. It's like, don't be downhearted by that at the start of it, because you're working with a few hundred followers and that's going to transcend into one or two. speaker-1: And the algorithm is not used to you posting yet. And I've only started posting on LinkedIn recently because I was sort of like, I've better practice what I preach. And the first few posts got absolutely nothing. But even now, weeks later, because of once again, the way that the algorithm works, I've been getting likes on posts that I posted a couple of months ago. And I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. But it's because LinkedIn is going, ⁓ actually I'll regurgitate it because she's obviously been consistent and... been getting engagements. So this didn't do that well because we didn't push it out enough. Let's sort of recycle that and try again. And you will see it build, but it's about compounding and you can't, you're never going to get success overnight. So. speaker-0: That's the hardest thing. One of the big frames I always use is progress, not perfection. You've just got to keep ticking away it, ticking along, seeing what you can do, seeing what you can achieve. Thanks for listening. As we've mentioned, we're keen for this to become a podcast for the whole industry. So please, feedback is welcome. Also, don't forget to like and subscribe if you want to hear more.