Latest / The Bull Brotherhood / The Good, the Bad and the Growth: The Evolution of a Quality Bull (feat. Mr. Mocha)

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The Good, the Bad and the Growth: The Evolution of a Quality Bull (feat. Mr. Mocha) · The Bull Brotherhood

• 0:00
  This podcast contains explicit adult content
• 0:03
  mature themes and candid conversations about
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  sex dominance power exchange and ethical non
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  -monogamy It is intended for audiences 18 and
• 0:16
  over only listener discretion is advised The
• 0:20
  views expressed by our guests are theirs alone
• 0:23
  and do not necessarily reflect the views or values
• 0:26
  of the hosts producers, or affiliated brands.
• 0:30
  The Bull Brotherhood podcast is for educational,
• 0:34
  entertainment, and empowerment purposes only.
• 0:37
  Nothing in this podcast should be interpreted
• 0:39
  as legal advice, medical guidance, or psychological
• 0:44
  counseling. We speak from experience, not credentials.
• 0:48
  Always practice consent, respect the boundaries
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  of others, and follow local laws. If you're not
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  comfortable with Frank talk about sex, kink dominance
• 0:59
  or emotional power this probably isn't the show
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  for you but if you're ready to step into your
• 1:05
  masculine edge and embrace a lifestyle that demands
• 1:08
  mastery welcome to the brotherhood welcome to
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  the bull brotherhood podcast where we talk power
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  pleasure and the art of dominance in ethical
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  non -monogamy this is not your average lifestyle
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  podcast this is for men who lead men who master,
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  and men who leave a lasting impression. If you're
• 1:31
  here, you're not just curious. You're ready to
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  elevate. So to all the bulls, hot wives, stags,
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  and open -minded explorers, we see you. Let's
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  go. Good evening and welcome to another informative
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  episode of the Bull Brotherhood podcast. I'm
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  the Sigma male himself, Mr. Brian Morgan. One
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  third of this lovely podcast along with my beautiful,
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  beautiful partner and his wife, the lovely Siren.
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  Say hello. Hello. And, of course, my nephew and
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  partner in crime, my perpetual student, as he
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  is called, Socrates. What's good? What's good,
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  y 'all? All right, all right. Ladies and gentlemen,
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  we have a very, very special guest tonight. And
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  I do mean when I say very special. I can't tell
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  you just how much this brother means to me. All
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  right? Yeah, we just recently met, to tell you
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  the truth. I mean, I knew who he was from previous
• 3:00
  Splash Mokas, but he and I are really, as he
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  would say, we are each other's doppelganger.
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  We really are. You know him from his very, very
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  informative podcast known as the Old Faces Podcast,
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  along with his lovely, lovely wife, Mrs. Moka.
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  But I call him Dark Gable because that's what
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  he is, all right? About 220 pounds full of damn
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  just chocolate, you know what I mean? The women
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  love him, all right? Muscle on muscle on muscle.
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  Exactly. He's the women's pet, the men's regret,
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  all right? Man of steel with sex appeal. That's
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  all there is to it. Ladies and gentlemen, I introduce
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  to you Mr. Mocha. What's going on, Dan, everybody?
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  Hey, I keep telling you, you keep overselling
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  me, people are going to get mad at you. Hey,
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  man. You keep overselling the product, man. Come
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  on. Hey, man. Hey, man. I just call it like I
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  see it, baby. That's all it is to it. What's
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  good with my brother from another mother? You
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  all right? Hey, I appreciate you guys having
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  me on. I'm excited. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely,
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  man. This is just the first of, you know, the
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  brothers, the true brothers from the brotherhood.
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  You know, we take it off with you. Of course,
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  you know, we're going to hit down south in Florida
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  to Mr. Velvet himself and then take it on back
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  up north, you know, of course, where Michael's
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  safe. But here again, man, it is a pleasure to
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  have you up here tonight. And we... we're just
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  gonna kick it i mean we're gonna kick it and
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  then ask you some questions um after after you
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  you know give us a a description of of like how
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  you got into this life you know where you're
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  from you know just et cetera et cetera now actually
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  come and kick it off oh man you putting that
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  you putting it all on me i'm just saying man
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  just just let the people know you know where
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  you're from you know what i'm saying how long
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  you been in this life you know what this life
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  means to you etc etc but all right so i'm originally
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  originally from upstate new york um i've been
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  the lifestyle since i was 23 i am i'll be 47
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  in a few weeks um man look at me i mean what's
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  got me into lifestyle i mean My introduction
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  to the lifestyle was actually a co -worker. I
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  mean, obviously, I had been promiscuous, but
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  what got me into the lifestyle was a co -worker.
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  Somebody I had worked with for a while. Really
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  good friends. His wife, you know, back then,
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  I think she was probably in her early 40s. fucking
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  gorgeous woman you know everybody that you know
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  that was a wife that everybody looked at but
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  you you didn't want to be disrespectful to your
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  buddy you know we'd go out and things like that
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  and um one night we were all out drinking and
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  he just just dropped it on me you know and i
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  was you know i have i want i've been more than
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  the fucker anyway so you know it's the opportunity
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  And I did it, and I was obviously, you know,
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  nervous, but I did it, and then they put me into
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  their circle. And it just so happened that the
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  circle of people that they introduced me to was
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  more of a hot wife circle. that the circle they
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  introduced me to and it was a very I mean they
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  were they were obviously you know now now I can
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  I say this but to me at that time they were all
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  older people but they were all my age now so
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  I guess I qualify as the older people but they
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  were all you know they were all older they were
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  all you know affluent they you know there was
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  just it was just a cool happy drama free environment
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  look as drama free as through my eyes at that
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  time i didn't have the experience to recognize
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  drama and it just seemed like a fun awesome group
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  and that yeah that was kind of that was my introduction
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  to it that the hot wife experience where you
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  had a lot of you know husbands who were super
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  cool and like oh yeah Fuck my life. I'm like,
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  okay, I will. You know, that was my introduction
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  to the lifestyle. It's amazing how. Go ahead.
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  Go ahead. Yeah. Mr. Mocha. So I want to get a
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  little deeper into that. So you, what was your
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  thoughts the next day or the few days after that?
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  Like what was going through your head? Like,
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  Oh, this is the shit right here. Like. I'm about
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  to jump in. Or were you, like, trying to process,
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  like, what the fuck just happened? Like, what
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  were you thinking? Oh, so actually, I was just,
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  I was on cloud nine. Good answer, brother. Anything
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  less would have been. Yeah, I was. I was on cloud
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  nine. In fact, my buddy had to tell me to calm
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  down because, you know, we went out like a week
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  later, we went out and, you know, me, him and
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  his wife. And I'm thinking like, I didn't know.
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  I didn't know. I speak today with information,
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  but at that time I didn't know there was a such
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  thing as hot wiping. All I knew is they said
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  they were swingers. He didn't specify hot wiping.
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  And I thought that it just meant that, oh, you
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  guys can fuck whoever you want, and now I can
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  look at hot women, you know, in front of you
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  and your wife and point out, you know, hot women.
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  So we're out. I think it was lunch. I think,
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  yeah, we were out for lunch because we worked
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  together, and she would always because the gym
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  was right across the street from where we worked
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  at. And he was like, hey, let's go to lunch.
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  So we, three of us went to lunch. And this really
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  attractive woman walked by and I was like, hey,
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  look at that. And then we went back to work.
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  He was like, bro, you can't do that. He was like,
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  that's outside the rules. I'm like, oh, what?
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  You're not allowed to look at? He was like, well,
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  he was like, that's complicated. But, you know,
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  she's the only one who we focus our attention
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  on. And I'm like, cool. You know, I don't know
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  the rules. You got to educate me. So, you know,
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  he explained their rules to me after that. But,
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  yeah, I was excited. And I didn't want to assume
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  that it was going to happen again. But, you know,
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  not only did it happen again, but they introduced
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  me to friends. So it was great. When they asked
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  you to go to lunch, though, that was the green
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  light. That was the green light for you. You
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  may not have realized it, but. They had already
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  gone back to the house, and hell, they had already
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  discussed you anyway. They had discussed you
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  for a long time before he finally approached
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  you. It's amazing how our stories are kind of
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  similar. You know, me meeting Sylvia Garrett
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  like I did, and, you know, she introducing me
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  to her, you know, friends. and they were all
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  like just like yours you know affluent and then
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  you know making money etc etc i didn't know what
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  the hell was going on all i know is i'm meeting
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  you know folks that damn i've seen this person
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  before you know they're on the they're on the
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  news channel and all that stuff but they i mean
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  they had already they had already given you the
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  green light mocha They'd already given you green
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  light. But you were just like me. You were 23.
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  I was 26. All I know was that I had this beautiful
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  damn woman. And, you know, I'm giving permission
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  to them, you know, to fuck. And the terminology,
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  hot wiping and all that stuff like that, it was
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  the same, I guess, the same here as it was overseas.
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  You know, we didn't have the term then, you know.
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  We didn't have to turn. All I knew was damn swinging.
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  That was it. But I knew that this wasn't swinging
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  because the husband didn't, you know, had no
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  desire to, you know, to have sex with anybody.
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  He was just happy that, you know, I had the wife.
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  So that's amazing. But when did you realize or
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  did it become? Was she just, like, a plaything
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  to you, or did you guys really develop, you know,
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  a great, like, relationship, or what? I mean,
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  how far did it go before Mocha said, okay, I'm
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  a bull now? You know what I'm saying? When you
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  realized you were, like... The bull concept came
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  far, far down the road. Okay. As far as then,
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  the thing was, they were my friends before we
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  did it. And because of the people we worked around,
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  you know, he took a big risk even approaching
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  me with it because we worked around some loudmouth
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  savages that would, had they found out, you know,
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  they would have roasted them. So he took a big
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  risk, and it was our friendship. So, you know,
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  they were, it was kind of, it was, they did it
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  the way I like. He was, they were always really
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  cool. They were never thirsty. The friendship
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  remained the friendship because he made it very
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  clear, here's the deal. We are only this way.
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  Even if we're out in public, we still follow.
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  old rules only time we do anything extra is when
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  we're behind closed doors so if somebody walks
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  past our table they should never know even the
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  night that i played with them the first time
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  and we left the bar together that was a whole
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  bunch of people from work and the way he got
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  us out of there the way the way we left they
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  no one ever knew so you know he started to really
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  develop the protocol You know, so that's why
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  even now if I'm out with a couple, you know,
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  I am very, I'm very much a gentleman in public.
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  In public, unless you give me the green light
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  to be anything more than just, you know, your
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  husband's friend, I don't do anything else. So
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  that relationship was just really cool. I mean,
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  that was a great, great relationship. They connect
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  me with a lot of good people. And, you know,
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  we were good. We were close until they moved
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  out of state. You know, so that was and even
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  we still will occasionally reach out to each
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  other on Facebook. Outstanding. Outstanding.
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  You made an impression. You made an impression.
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  You made the impression on that one. The impression
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  was all hers. I heard that. I heard that. She
• 15:23
  sounded like she was gorgeous and shit the way
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  you damn talking. She sounded like she was drop
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  dead beautiful. Oh, man. Man. Wow. Socrates Siren,
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  are you there? Yes, sir. I think he's taking
• 15:40
  a little nap over there. I know, right? I know
• 15:43
  y 'all want to jump in. What if my mouth was
• 15:44
  busy? You don't know. We do. Carry on. While
• 15:49
  I'm listening, you never know. No. Exactly. Exactly.
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  Why would I interrupt that? Ain't nothing wrong
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  with that, by all means. I like to keep the mystery
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  alive. By all means. You know I got a thousand
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  questions. I know you do. Go ahead. So, the introduction
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  part. Do you did they ever relate to you what
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  they were saying to their friends? That's because
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  that's always the most interesting thing is like
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  when you're referring me, what are you saying?
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  You know, and that's always intrigued me. So
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  do you know what were they saying about Mr. Mocha
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  to be like, yeah, he's a good time. I think you
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  should, you know, check that out. Well, so so
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  actually the next time. A few weeks after the
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  first time we played, they said, hey, we want
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  you to come to this party with us. So that was
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  my first lifestyle house party. And they didn't
• 16:54
  say what it was. And I didn't, I was hoping it
• 16:57
  was what it was. But, you know, I'm just, this
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  is something that ladies may not understand,
• 17:03
  but every dude knows this feeling where you're
• 17:06
  like. I hope this thing, I hope it's going to
• 17:09
  happen. I hope my dick's going to wind up in
• 17:11
  the mouth, but I'm not going to get super excited
• 17:13
  because as soon as I say, as soon as I act like
• 17:16
  I'm happy about it, I'm going to fuck it up.
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  So I just got there, walking to the house, huge
• 17:23
  house, mansion, beautiful house. And I'm in this
• 17:27
  house and I'm like, the lady's a real skimpy
• 17:29
  dress, but you know, I'm not going to assume
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  everybody's being extra friendly. I'm not going
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  to assume we go down to the basement. and to
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  the bar, and there's naked, there's topless women,
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  and I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah, this is what it
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  is. And my heart was pounding out of my chest,
• 17:47
  and I was trying to act like I was cool. Like,
• 17:50
  yeah, that ain't nothing. I'm good. I mean, I
• 17:54
  do this. This is just a Tuesday to me. But I
• 17:57
  was terrified. And that was them introducing
• 18:01
  me to their. their friend group. Now, obviously,
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  you know, now knowing what I know now, that means
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  that they would have already had a conversation.
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  They would have already shown pictures of me.
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  They would have already, you know, had a conversation,
• 18:15
  told him, Hey, I'm bringing a single black dude
• 18:17
  to a party. He's a good guy. And then the, the
• 18:23
  reception I got once I got there, you know, Oh,
• 18:27
  this is him type thing. Like, Oh, okay. So. Going
• 18:32
  back and looking at it, I understand a lot of
• 18:34
  things that were happening. But at the time,
• 18:36
  there was no understanding of this. All I knew
• 18:39
  is these are my friends. They wanted me to come
• 18:42
  to a party with them. They trusted me. I went
• 18:45
  there. Me and my 23 -year -old dick, we laid
• 18:49
  down the law. And then after that, you know.
• 18:55
  Is that the name of your penis? I got pulled
• 18:59
  off. That's the name of your penis. No, I refer
• 19:03
  to my penis. My penis. No, no. His name is The
• 19:08
  Precious. The Precious. That's his name. The
• 19:12
  Precious. The Precious. Next time I talk to your
• 19:17
  wife, next time I talk to your wife, I'm going
• 19:19
  to tell her. I'm going to mention that and be
• 19:22
  like, how's The Precious? What's funny is a friend
• 19:28
  of mine named, okay. I'm going on topic. So one
• 19:32
  of my boys I always party with, he's the one,
• 19:37
  and he was like picking on me, and he was like,
• 19:40
  man, what are you doing to these chicks? From
• 19:42
  now on, you need to call your dick the precious.
• 19:45
  And so he started cracking jokes, but I'd never
• 19:48
  seen the movie, so I had no idea what the fuck
• 19:50
  he was talking about. I thought he was talking
• 19:52
  about the movie Precious with the big girl. So
• 19:57
  I'm like, he was like. You've never seen Lord
• 20:00
  of the Rings? Or something like that. So that's
• 20:04
  not why I'd have seen that movie for the first
• 20:06
  time. Just to see what the fuck The Precious
• 20:08
  was. And I laughed. I laughed for so long because...
• 20:12
  So unfortunately, you know, me and my young,
• 20:17
  uncouth mind, I was having... He knew like two,
• 20:24
  three of the women at the time that I was having
• 20:25
  sex with. And he was like, dude, they're going
• 20:29
  crazy. What are you doing? And so that's how
• 20:31
  we became the Precious. That was the joke behind
• 20:37
  that. At least there's a good story. Not old.
• 20:44
  It was no longer the Precious. Now I refer to
• 20:46
  it as the little fella. Yes. Socrates calls his
• 20:50
  micropenis. There you go. That way, you know,
• 20:56
  anything above that is a pleasant surprise. Hey,
• 21:01
  I want them to look at my mind, too. I have interesting
• 21:04
  things to say. I'm just with you for the money.
• 21:08
  I'm okay with that. Question for you, my brother.
• 21:17
  What was the evolution of Mr. Mocha? from age
• 21:25
  23 to now. How have you, I already know, I can
• 21:31
  already picture a stud, a height at age 23. I
• 21:36
  can already picture that. You know what I mean?
• 21:38
  But what was, what has been the evolution? How
• 21:41
  have you changed over the years? And what has
• 21:46
  made you become that quality bull that... we
• 21:53
  wish everybody would be, that we wish all the
• 21:55
  brothers would be. Yeah, I wouldn't do it. That's
• 22:03
  a decade's worth of good, bad, ugly, and growth.
• 22:12
  Man, from 23, you know, it was a lot happened
• 22:17
  from the first time that I stepped into the lifestyle
• 22:22
  because when you first get into it you're stumbling
• 22:26
  you're you're kind of stumbling through the dark
• 22:28
  you you you learn you usually learn what the
• 22:36
  people who brought you into it teach you so fortunately
• 22:39
  my introduction was a very positive environment
• 22:42
  um which is probably why i why I stayed in the
• 22:49
  lifestyle and I was so intrigued because it was
• 22:51
  positive. But, man, there was a lot of bumps
• 22:55
  along the way trying to figure out, you know,
• 22:58
  how are you supposed to talk to somebody's wife?
• 23:01
  You know, how do you, the understanding that,
• 23:05
  dude, it's so much. I can't even, I don't even
• 23:09
  know where to start. Goodness gracious. Fucking,
• 23:13
  it's like going from a tadpole to a... You know
• 23:18
  to a frog give me this is huge so many changes,
• 23:22
  you know as you move through it the not knowing
• 23:25
  to starting to learn to Knowing how to deal with
• 23:29
  couples knowing how to deal with wives knowing
• 23:33
  how to deal with husband learning that You have
• 23:37
  to if you want to be successful you have to have
• 23:40
  the ability to pay attention listening is a skill
• 23:44
  and Not just hearing words, but listening to
• 23:50
  what's being said underneath. Say that again.
• 23:55
  Say that again for the viewers, because you just
• 23:57
  knocked that shit out of the park. Say that again
• 24:00
  just in case our listeners didn't hear it. You
• 24:05
  know what I mean? Because that was a home run
• 24:07
  right there. Listening is such a skill. People
• 24:11
  say things, but they're hidden messages that
• 24:15
  are embedded in what they say. You're looking
• 24:18
  at the facial expressions, how they behave. Whenever
• 24:25
  I deal with couples, I now put together like
• 24:31
  almost a grid. And, you know, in Socrates' language,
• 24:37
  my grid, the person they are when I'm online,
• 24:42
  the person they are when we're in public. The
• 24:46
  people they are when I speak to them individually.
• 24:50
  The face they show me when they're together.
• 24:54
  The energy that I see when I first start making
• 24:59
  physical contact. You know, how is she behaving?
• 25:04
  How is he behaving during sex? And what kind
• 25:08
  of energy I have after sex? And then after they
• 25:12
  processed it, what kind of energy do I have?
• 25:15
  on the phone when we communicate later. All those
• 25:20
  things, it helps me paint a picture of them as
• 25:25
  individuals, them as a couple, how secure they
• 25:30
  are, how far along in their lifestyle journey
• 25:33
  they are, how much are they on the same page
• 25:40
  or not on the same page. All of these things
• 25:44
  are skills that I've had to learn because not
• 25:48
  learning these things have created issues where
• 25:52
  you have problem with the husband's problem with
• 25:57
  the wife, them having problems together. The
• 26:02
  thing that I hate the most is being the guy,
• 26:05
  the person who's on the outside of the relationship.
• 26:09
  The experiences that I've had where... The husband
• 26:13
  lies or the wife lies, and then they realize
• 26:19
  that they're lying, but then they don't want
• 26:21
  to blame each other, so then it's my fault. How
• 26:24
  do I keep that from happening? There's so much
• 26:30
  stuff when you're saying going from starting
• 26:34
  off to being a quality bull. When I tell people
• 26:37
  that I've learned a lot of hard lessons, I think
• 26:40
  people... I gloss over it, so they gloss over
• 26:44
  it. But I've learned a lot of hard lessons because
• 26:48
  my nature is one extreme to the other. So when
• 26:51
  I get it, when I got into the lifestyle, like
• 26:54
  I was full steam ahead. The lifestyle was my
• 26:58
  recreation. Fuck vacation. That was my vacation.
• 27:02
  That was, I mean, that was my fun on the weekends,
• 27:05
  throughout the weekdays. All that I wanted to
• 27:08
  do was fuck. I didn't give a shit about nothing
• 27:10
  else. You know, if it was work, family, or fucking.
• 27:14
  That was it. So, like, I really dove into the
• 27:18
  lifestyle, you know, head first into the ocean.
• 27:22
  And so. No, dick first into the ocean. I coughed
• 27:27
  up a lot of seawater in the process. I got a
• 27:31
  question, Mr. Mocha. You, when you look at people
• 27:37
  who, like, I love the fact that. You know that
• 27:40
  he talks about the evolution of people. That's
• 27:44
  his focus. And I understand why. So when you
• 27:47
  look at the evolution of people, they. Every
• 27:51
  time they come to a challenge or a success, there's
• 27:55
  a process in their brain that makes them end
• 27:59
  up in a better position later. So what I want
• 28:03
  to know is when you ran into that again. OK,
• 28:06
  yeah. So. What I've noticed about people who
• 28:09
  evolve to the level that Brian Morgan's talking
• 28:14
  about is that every time they come up to a challenge,
• 28:17
  like you talked about the couple that lied, the
• 28:20
  wife is lying, and the husband's lying, they
• 28:22
  find out they're both lying, so then they blame
• 28:25
  you. Let's say that challenge. Or, you know,
• 28:28
  jealousy or any other issues that you come across
• 28:31
  in the lifestyle. What I notice is that people
• 28:34
  that evolve have a certain mindset. at at that
• 28:38
  challenge they think of those challenges in a
• 28:41
  different way than those that don't evolve so
• 28:44
  i want to know what your thought process is when
• 28:46
  you have a challenge are you looking at it like
• 28:49
  okay this is a challenge how do i overcome this
• 28:51
  has it ever you know get you to the point where
• 28:54
  you're like man i want to be out of this or makes
• 28:56
  you want to give up or what do you do what goes
• 28:58
  on in the mind of mr mocha when he's challenged
• 29:01
  to get better at something I think when it came
• 29:11
  to lifestyle stuff and situations in the lifestyle,
• 29:17
  my mindset is I want to understand. It's a relationship.
• 29:28
  The only difference is the type of relationship.
• 29:31
  And as a person, I want whatever I'm trying to
• 29:41
  give off is what I want to give off. So if I
• 29:45
  don't have bad intentions, I don't want you to
• 29:47
  take it that way. So if, if I'm going into situations
• 29:54
  in the beginning where things didn't go right,
• 30:00
  I would just kind of figure out what, what did
• 30:03
  I do wrong? Because oftentimes, And, you know,
• 30:07
  for many years, I would get pissed off, and I
• 30:11
  wouldn't say anything because that's, it is what
• 30:14
  it is. I would just cut people off who I felt
• 30:16
  were being stupid, you know. But later on, I
• 30:22
  started saying, okay, how can I set myself up
• 30:30
  for success? We've talked about many times the
• 30:35
  way I am when it comes to websites and things
• 30:38
  like that. I will miss out on a lot of couples
• 30:42
  because there's certain behaviors that I won't
• 30:46
  tolerate. And I won't tolerate those behaviors
• 30:51
  simply because 8 out of 10 times that behavior
• 30:56
  leaves down this road. Now, of course, there's
• 30:59
  going to be 2 out of 10 times where it doesn't,
• 31:01
  but... It's not worth it. It's not worth it.
• 31:06
  When I talk about behaviors and how people respond,
• 31:12
  I'm talking about how the people I've interacted
• 31:14
  respond to certain types of things. So I know
• 31:18
  I love being in a lifestyle, and I also enjoyed
• 31:21
  with lifestyle couples, I wanted to make long
• 31:27
  -term friendships. Even when you first started
• 31:32
  in the lifestyle, you were thinking that way?
• 31:34
  Like, long -term friendships with these people?
• 31:38
  Well, no, no. No, let me phrase that. I wanted
• 31:50
  to have consistent fuck partners. I get it. All
• 31:57
  right. The truth comes out. To me, in the lifestyle,
• 31:59
  friendship. Friendships are always, friendships
• 32:05
  are not necessary. But I have found that I've
• 32:10
  gotten my best friendships through the lifestyle.
• 32:13
  Through the lifestyle, yeah. I consider you my
• 32:16
  best friend. I met you at a convention. Yep.
• 32:20
  Yeah, exactly. You know, so, but when I'm talking
• 32:25
  about what, you know, when we're talking about
• 32:27
  people who I'm playing with, so. We could fuck
• 32:32
  and just fuck. And whatever our arrangement is,
• 32:36
  I wanted that to be clear. If you say, hey, I
• 32:41
  just want you to fuck my wife and don't talk
• 32:43
  to her, cool. If you say, all right, I want you
• 32:48
  to fuck my wife and treat her like a boyfriend,
• 32:52
  like you're her boyfriend, cool. So I was always
• 32:56
  trying to figure out, okay, what do we want?
• 32:58
  But early on, I didn't get that from both the
• 33:03
  husband and the wife, and I didn't know how to
• 33:08
  kind of create this triangle where I was communicating
• 33:12
  with him, communicating with her, communicating
• 33:14
  with them. You know, I'd run into trouble because
• 33:18
  I would just take one person's word. You know,
• 33:21
  I remember a husband like, oh, yeah, you know,
• 33:24
  she just wants you to pound her. And I'm like,
• 33:27
  I'm not really a pounder. Oh, no, she loves that.
• 33:30
  So I go in and I start pounding, and she's like,
• 33:34
  okay, you're hurting me. And I stop, and he's
• 33:38
  like, no, no, keep going. And I'm like, whoa,
• 33:41
  whoa, no. And so what would happen early on when
• 33:46
  stuff like that would happen, I was conflicted.
• 33:50
  So what would wind up happening is my dick would
• 33:52
  start getting soft. So now you both lose because.
• 33:59
  She don't want this. You are, you want this.
• 34:05
  And now because you two are in conflict, I can't
• 34:09
  focus on the job at hand. So I got to limp it.
• 34:12
  So my goal is always. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go
• 34:17
  ahead. What age? I was going to ask, I was going
• 34:25
  to ask Mocha, what age were you? when you started
• 34:29
  to like like see these things like see that okay
• 34:33
  the husband wants one thing i'm doing what he
• 34:36
  wants but i can see that it's you know the wife
• 34:39
  is not comfortable with this you know what age
• 34:42
  were you then were you still 23 then or had you
• 34:45
  was this a couple of years so i that I stuck
• 34:52
  pretty tight in that particular circle because
• 34:55
  I was a big circle of people. And at the time,
• 34:59
  I was a massage therapist. So what they would
• 35:04
  always do is give each other gift certificates,
• 35:08
  massage gift certificates for me to come in.
• 35:11
  It was a whole thing, which was like an inside
• 35:15
  joke. Hey, that's some shit. You're a massage
• 35:19
  therapist and me with personal training. That
• 35:22
  boy, I swear to God, we are like, God damn. I
• 35:26
  mean, that's what I did. You know, massage therapy,
• 35:29
  personal training, and nutrition. Those are my
• 35:31
  three. So that would be, that was the thing.
• 35:35
  So I was in that group. I mean, that was a group
• 35:37
  of probably, I don't know, 15, 16 wives. Damn
• 35:45
  right. So that, you know, going through that.
• 35:48
  So I probably worked in that circle for about
• 35:51
  two years within the lifestyle. So in that circle,
• 35:56
  it was, I really didn't get that because I was
• 36:03
  kind of the, they were careful what they would
• 36:10
  say around me. for the simple fact that they
• 36:13
  all knew that I was playing with their friends
• 36:15
  and things like that. So that was like happy
• 36:18
  land for me before I ventured out. So it was
• 36:21
  probably a couple years later when I started
• 36:24
  playing outside of that circle and started realizing
• 36:31
  that everybody wasn't like them. And like, okay,
• 36:36
  well, everybody's not like these guys. And that's
• 36:42
  when I started having issues because I just kind
• 36:45
  of went into it like, okay, whatever you guys
• 36:49
  say is what you mean. Because a lot of times
• 36:52
  couples will put this united front on like, oh,
• 36:54
  yeah, yeah, we're good. No, you're not good.
• 36:57
  But, you know, that's what we find out. You know,
• 37:01
  you start finding out later on down the road.
• 37:03
  So that was how, I mean, I stuck with the hot
• 37:06
  wifing and I didn't even get into the cuckolding
• 37:09
  until. oh my goodness cuckolding was it was probably
• 37:18
  i don't know maybe like 27 later on it was i
• 37:28
  was it was swinging for a good amount of time
• 37:31
  and hot wifing And my first real, like, obviously,
• 37:36
  like, now looking back, I realize that I was
• 37:38
  dealing with some cuckold couples, but it wasn't
• 37:41
  presented like that. The first cuckold experience
• 37:45
  I had was just kind of surprised me. Like, boom.
• 37:50
  You know, she starts talking shit to her husband
• 37:53
  while I'm fucking her, and I'm thinking he's
• 37:56
  about to double pump drop kick this chick in
• 37:59
  the face. I'm like, she's talking dirty. I'm
• 38:07
  like, God damn. You know, like, I'm like, should
• 38:11
  I get out of the way? And then, you know, he's,
• 38:13
  oh, I'm so sorry, honey. And he sits down and,
• 38:15
  you know, he's talking about, oh, this is a game.
• 38:18
  And then I'm like, wait, does she think she's
• 38:20
  going to talk to me like this? Let me go ahead
• 38:22
  and rearrange her guts. We know that that won't
• 38:28
  be allowed here. So, yeah, there's just so many
• 38:33
  stages to it. It's like trying to describe an
• 38:39
  encyclopedia. It's so much. But I think we drilled
• 38:44
  it down. I like the fact that you start off with,
• 38:48
  where am I going wrong? And even though sometimes
• 38:51
  you're not doing anything wrong, is that accountability?
• 38:55
  where Brian Morgan kicks in and he's talking
• 38:58
  about quality bulls. You know, you can debate
• 39:00
  on what that means, but I think there's some
• 39:02
  generalities that we can all agree on. And accountability
• 39:06
  first is one of them to me. Like, I don't think
• 39:09
  you get to evolve without that. You know what
• 39:11
  I'm saying? Absolutely. As I said one time before,
• 39:18
  every encounter that you have, you learn something.
• 39:25
  And again, that's a part of the evolution. And
• 39:30
  you are supposed to, to our younger boys out
• 39:34
  there that might be listening or listening in
• 39:36
  the future, you are supposed to have fuck -ups.
• 39:41
  That is how you learn. That's how you learn.
• 39:45
  You're supposed to have fuck -ups. If you were
• 39:48
  damn just perfect at 23 and 26 years old, then
• 39:54
  it would get boring very, very quickly, in my
• 39:57
  opinion. But because you do, like Mocha said,
• 40:02
  you learn. I mean, he learned. He evolved with
• 40:06
  every encounter that he had, sounds like. And
• 40:10
  then he was able to finally put together that
• 40:13
  equation that worked for him. And he did do that
• 40:17
  over time. That made him what he is now. I'm
• 40:25
  still learning. I'm still learning. Exactly.
• 40:28
  Exactly. As am I. I'm still learning. You know,
• 40:36
  man. I'm still learning. As a dude, my biggest
• 40:41
  nemesis is my dick. You know, my dick is my my
• 40:46
  dick is my biggest adversary. You know, when
• 40:51
  you start realizing like, hey, this This situation
• 40:55
  is not a good idea. You know, I know that based
• 40:59
  upon the behavior of this woman, this wife, this
• 41:04
  husband, this couple, I need to stop fucking
• 41:07
  her, but damn, she's finding the pussy so good.
• 41:09
  I'm going to try one more time. You know, your
• 41:13
  dick is always, you know, your dick is always
• 41:17
  like the devil on both shoulders. That's what
• 41:22
  daddy said, boy. That little head will ruin you.
• 41:27
  That little head will get you sometime, man.
• 41:31
  You cannot think. As he would say, boy, you ain't
• 41:36
  got good sense when that little head is talking
• 41:39
  like that. You ain't got good sense. And he's
• 41:42
  right. He is absolutely right. That's absolutely
• 41:45
  correct. Absolutely correct. Been there, done
• 41:49
  that. Still, like I said, my old ass, I'm still
• 41:52
  having, you know what I mean? Even though I've
• 41:55
  calmed down a whole lot, but I'm still, still
• 41:58
  struggling with that shit sometimes. Yeah. You
• 42:02
  know, just making, making the good decision.
• 42:06
  And, you know, to go back to what I was saying,
• 42:08
  to me, I think that it comes down to your personal
• 42:12
  nature. I'm one of those people that no matter
• 42:15
  what goes wrong, the first person I look at is
• 42:17
  me. What could I have done better? Because, don't
• 42:22
  get me wrong, I'm definitely going to blame those
• 42:24
  motherfuckers at some point. But somebody can
• 42:27
  be wrong, but I can also try to figure out how
• 42:29
  to avoid getting myself into a situation again.
• 42:32
  So for me, I'm always trying to figure out how
• 42:36
  to avoid a particular type of situation. Now,
• 42:40
  when it comes to education, I pay very close
• 42:45
  attention to behaviors. How do people act? It
• 42:50
  took years, and this is embarrassing to say,
• 42:53
  it took years in the lifestyle for me to accept
• 42:57
  and understand that, you know, when I was a single
• 43:01
  guy in the lifestyle that I had the same rights
• 43:03
  that couples had, that I didn't have to answer
• 43:09
  for the behavior of other single guys because
• 43:12
  I didn't ask couples to answer for the behavior
• 43:15
  of other couples. Your wife is not my fucking
• 43:21
  queen, and I don't have to treat her like that.
• 43:24
  I can treat her with the same respect that she
• 43:27
  treats me with, and she doesn't get more respect
• 43:30
  than I get, and you don't get more respect than
• 43:31
  I get. Anything that is asked of me, I have the
• 43:39
  right to expect from you when it comes to respect.
• 43:44
  That was the thing that took me a long time to
• 43:47
  come around to. lifestyle because, you know,
• 43:51
  once I stepped out of that circle and started
• 43:53
  trying to go to clubs and other parties, I went
• 43:57
  from going to parties where everyone knew who
• 44:00
  I was to trying to get introduced to new groups
• 44:03
  and new parties. And they treat, you know, everybody
• 44:06
  treats single guys like they had the plague,
• 44:09
  but everybody's still trying to suck your dick
• 44:11
  when nobody's looking, you know? So it was kind
• 44:13
  of like, you know, you're huge. Everybody acts
• 44:18
  like they hate single guys. I don't. Well, you
• 44:23
  don't. Well, you don't. I never understand that.
• 44:29
  Well, I mean, the expectation that people put
• 44:33
  on single guys and, you know, my wife is my queen.
• 44:39
  My wife ain't nobody else's queen. You know what
• 44:42
  I'm saying? I respect any guy who comes and plays
• 44:46
  with my wife, but once again, that's because
• 44:48
  of my experiences. I roll out the red carpet
• 44:51
  for any guy who my wife plays with. I make sure
• 44:55
  when he comes to my home, he's comfortable, and
• 44:58
  my aura makes him comfortable. I make sure that
• 45:02
  I know that I can be intimidating. I know that
• 45:06
  if they've never met me, I do my best to let
• 45:09
  you know, hey, I appreciate you coming through.
• 45:12
  I'm going to give you all the tips that I can
• 45:14
  give you. You know, feel comfortable, feel safe,
• 45:18
  blah, blah, blah. I make him feel comfortable.
• 45:21
  The things that people have said to me throughout
• 45:23
  the years where motherfuckers say, oh, well,
• 45:25
  you lucky that you get to fuck my wife. Like,
• 45:29
  I don't say the dickhead shit that I want to
• 45:31
  say, but I'm thinking, like, why the fuck am
• 45:34
  I lucky? Like, is she, like, like, what am I?
• 45:41
  she's used to fucking your four -inch dick. And
• 45:44
  I'm the lucky one? Get the fuck out of here.
• 45:46
  She's lucky, but I don't come across with that
• 45:48
  attitude. You know, and so, but it took years
• 45:52
  for me to finally have the mentality where it's
• 45:55
  like, oh, no, I can expect the same level of
• 46:02
  respect that I get. Mr. Michael, what do you
• 46:05
  say? That was also a big thing. What do you say?
• 46:10
  Like if somebody does say that, like if you end
• 46:14
  up, you know, in the room with a couple or, you
• 46:17
  know, she goes away to the bathroom and he says
• 46:19
  that, man, you lucky to get to play with my wife.
• 46:22
  And you know, let me tell you, like, what do
• 46:24
  you say? I mean, like verbally, I know what we
• 46:27
  say in our heads. Laugh just like that. Laugh
• 46:33
  just like that because you know damn well what
• 46:37
  you. what you know that you could say, especially
• 46:40
  when you got laid down. You know what I'm saying?
• 46:43
  And then curl the toes and all that shit. You
• 46:46
  can say that before I fuck her. You can't say
• 46:48
  that after I fuck her. Here's the thing. It's
• 46:54
  different. It's how it's said. When it's me and
• 46:59
  my husband talking about the wife. And we're
• 47:03
  just having fun banter about her. Oh, dude, you're
• 47:06
  so lucky about to get a fucker. Fucker, she's
• 47:08
  so wet and ready. I'm cool with that. Like, because,
• 47:12
  oh, I appreciate you sharing this pussy. I appreciate
• 47:16
  you sharing that energy. I appreciate the fact
• 47:19
  that, you know, you invited me out. You and your
• 47:23
  wife invited me out. You guys got me dinner and
• 47:25
  drinks. You got a great hotel room. And I'm going
• 47:28
  to go up there and give her. my very best. I
• 47:32
  want to blow her fucking mind. And in the meantime,
• 47:34
  with him and I bantering back and forth and talking
• 47:37
  about her and flirting with her and kind of doing
• 47:41
  that interaction between the husband and the
• 47:45
  bull, where it's this, I'm giving him that energy
• 47:52
  that he wants and I'm sharing, helping him bask
• 47:56
  in the glow that she's about to receive. That's
• 48:00
  different. But to have someone say, look, dude,
• 48:04
  you should be lucky I'm letting you fuck my wife.
• 48:06
  So, you know, if you can't come over this weekend,
• 48:09
  we'll just fucking find somebody else. At that
• 48:12
  point, I just say, well, you know something?
• 48:16
  You don't have to call me anymore. And the few
• 48:19
  times that's happened, it's... You know, some
• 48:27
  guy, you know, husband trying to be tough because,
• 48:29
  yeah, your wife is attractive. But, look, she
• 48:34
  likes me as much as I like her. And clearly you
• 48:38
  got a whole bunch of guys who are just like me
• 48:40
  who are fucking her just the way I do. So get
• 48:42
  one of them motherfuckers to fuck her so you
• 48:44
  can talk to her crazy. So now when she's calling
• 48:47
  me and asking me, hey, did I do something to
• 48:49
  offend you? No, you didn't do anything to offend
• 48:51
  me. But if you talk to your husband, he'll explain
• 48:53
  to you our last conversation. You know what I'm
• 48:56
  saying? Because I know my worth. You know what
• 49:02
  I'm saying? Like, I know statistically speaking
• 49:04
  what I provide. But when I first got into it,
• 49:09
  because I was compensating for all the horror
• 49:13
  stories I heard about all the single guys, and
• 49:17
  then I finally realized, no, dude, there are
• 49:21
  a whole bunch of horror stories about single
• 49:23
  guys. There's not a whole bunch of horror stories.
• 49:28
  I've done this exercise. Everybody talks about
• 49:33
  how bad single guys are. One in ten people can
• 49:36
  say they've had a bad experience. And when I
• 49:40
  say bad experience, I'm not talking about bad
• 49:42
  sex. I'm not talking about bad body odor. I'm
• 49:45
  not talking about the guy is fucking weird. I'm
• 49:50
  not talking about some unattractive single guy
• 49:52
  in the club who tried to talk to you. and said
• 49:55
  to you exactly what the attractive guy would
• 49:57
  have said, and you just sucked the attractive
• 49:58
  guy's dick. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking
• 50:01
  about how many times have you ever had a single
• 50:03
  guy who was just downright disrespectful? That's
• 50:06
  one intent. But everything else gets grouped
• 50:10
  into that. But it took me years to understand
• 50:13
  that. And so I was like extra cautious and compensating.
• 50:17
  And now I'm like, I'm not doing backflips. I'm
• 50:23
  going to give you. Whatever you give me. That's
• 50:27
  it. Well said. Well said. We haven't heard from
• 50:39
  the queen bee of our podcast tonight. The lovely
• 50:46
  siren. Siren, what's on your mind, babe? I'm
• 50:49
  just listening. Just soaking it in. You're just
• 50:53
  listening? It's been a long day today, so I'm
• 50:57
  just quietly absorbing the information, taking
• 51:02
  it in and interjecting it in there. I just wanted
• 51:05
  to say about that, the single guys, that's kind
• 51:07
  of one of my, it's a little burr under my saddle
• 51:10
  ever since I've been in the lifestyle. Socrates
• 51:14
  and I travel a lot, and just visiting the different
• 51:17
  places that, you know, on a prime night, they
• 51:20
  won't allow any single guys in. And I just...
• 51:23
  I haven't had that many bad interactions, and
• 51:26
  I know other people have, but I'm just like,
• 51:29
  maybe we can set up a night for all of us women
• 51:31
  that want the single guys, and then the couples
• 51:35
  can hang out on their night, and then the rest
• 51:38
  of us can have the single guys come to us. Would
• 51:41
  that work? Can we spread the word on that? You
• 51:46
  should ask your friends. You know, but you gotta
• 51:49
  ask them randomly don't don't challenge them
• 51:52
  because then they'll make some shit up Ask them
• 51:54
  like what was their worst single guy interaction,
• 51:56
  right? Mm -hmm. And then when they tell you what's
• 52:00
  your worst two single guy interaction, right?
• 52:02
  And then if they tell you two that are bad and
• 52:06
  then so how many single guys have you played
• 52:08
  with if they've had played with like 200 single
• 52:11
  dudes and that too bad like to actually like
• 52:15
  bad situations Because I can tell you this, we
• 52:20
  get way more disrespect from couples than we
• 52:24
  do from single guys. Always. Like we've always
• 52:29
  got more, had more, more like weird situations
• 52:34
  where couples, you know, cancel or, or just are
• 52:39
  no call, no show, or, you know, the single guy,
• 52:45
  I know you've had this. You talk to a couple
• 52:48
  online. They reach out to you. You talk to them.
• 52:52
  Then they just go silent. And then three months
• 52:55
  later, like 12 o 'clock in the morning, they
• 52:58
  message you like, hey, she's ready to come fuck.
• 53:01
  Are you up? Are you up? It's like the lifestyle
• 53:06
  booty call. One o 'clock in the morning. I ain't
• 53:11
  heard from you in two damn months. And you're
• 53:13
  going to hit me up. Are you up? Can you come
• 53:16
  over? Oh, Lord. So many times. Yes. So many times.
• 53:23
  Yes. Yes. We make it a policy at our house. That's
• 53:26
  a standard issue. Yeah, we don't cancel on people
• 53:29
  unless we are ill. You know, unless we are ill
• 53:35
  or we're just like. something turned with the
• 53:38
  vibe really hard strong you know hardcore but
• 53:40
  we just try to be really honest with people and
• 53:42
  not ghost them because there is so many situations
• 53:45
  like that and it's just annoying it's just like
• 53:47
  just communicate but i know people are afraid
• 53:50
  and all that good stuff but even when i was single
• 53:54
  before the lifestyle i just made that a policy
• 53:56
  like I would not, that's, that's why I'm married
• 53:59
  to Socrates now is because I didn't cancel that
• 54:02
  night because I wanted to, because I was really
• 54:05
  tired, but I was like, no, this is my policy
• 54:09
  with myself that if a man has the courage, you
• 54:12
  know, and asked me out and makes a plan, then
• 54:14
  I show up unless I'm, I'm really, really sick.
• 54:18
  So it's serving me well to, to be married to
• 54:21
  him now. And then also, you know, in the lifestyle
• 54:23
  we do that, you know, as a couple or individuals,
• 54:26
  it's like, Just really, you know, give a cancellation
• 54:30
  fee or something. I don't know. There should
• 54:33
  be. I say something. No. Okay. No, no, no. I'll
• 54:36
  tell you another thing. So we have had the problem
• 54:40
  with single women and the no -show cancellation.
• 54:44
  This one bitch, I'm about like, hey, you got
• 54:47
  to put down a security deposit before you're
• 54:49
  going to make another appointment with my husband.
• 54:52
  and waste more of my time putting you on the
• 54:54
  schedule as the slut secretary. I got a cancellation
• 54:56
  fee now. So next time be credit card, $100 deposit,
• 55:00
  non -refundable. Show up. Hey, listen. But I
• 55:07
  don't think we've had any dudes. We haven't had
• 55:10
  any dudes cancel. Single women are the roughest.
• 55:13
  Yeah, tell me about it. And that's why I don't
• 55:17
  deal with the unicorns. that was a rule that
• 55:21
  was a rule that uh that my handler uh she she
• 55:25
  was very adamant about when i was out there doing
• 55:27
  the escort thing if it's a it's a single if it's
• 55:30
  a single unless she really knew her unless she
• 55:35
  really really knew her and could you know vouch
• 55:37
  for her it wouldn't happen she was like they
• 55:40
  were not being like do that crazy she said she
• 55:43
  said women are women are foolish they're absolutely
• 55:46
  folks you know she was like i know what you see
• 55:48
  that Yeah, we have a lot of good ones. We have
• 55:53
  about to say, hey, no, no, no. Ladies, listeners,
• 55:58
  soccer teases down. I don't care if you're unicorn.
• 56:01
  Call me up. No problem. I'm letting my I'm letting
• 56:04
  my brothers over here speak their piece. And
• 56:07
  these guys are wise sages that I listen to. But
• 56:11
  I'm telling you right now, I ain't figured that
• 56:12
  out yet. Unicorns, holler at your boy. Thank
• 56:15
  you very much. Yeah, just remember that you have
• 56:19
  to go through a siren for the actual dick appointment,
• 56:21
  so I just want you to show up. Because you know
• 56:25
  when you don't show up, then I got to suck his
• 56:28
  dick twice as hard and twice as long. You know,
• 56:31
  ladies, I need some help. So, you know, if you're
• 56:34
  going to make the appointment, do it. Just show
• 56:36
  up. I'm not scary. I won't be there with, like,
• 56:39
  a pitchfork or anything. I'll probably sprinkle
• 56:42
  the rose petals myself. Light the candles for
• 56:46
  you. Please. And then plus, whenever he does
• 56:50
  have one, I usually go shopping. So that's a
• 56:55
  whole other thing. But yeah, some expensive pussy
• 56:58
  going on around here. Anyways, I just took that
• 57:03
  over on the single guy thing. I hear you. I got
• 57:07
  a question for everybody right now. and we go
• 57:10
  around the room um starting with starting with
• 57:14
  mocha and then socrates and then siren where
• 57:18
  where do you all think this lifestyle is going
• 57:23
  now in the future where is it headed and the
• 57:28
  reason i say this is because uh okay let me please
• 57:32
  let me finish when when this when this first
• 57:34
  came about in hot wiping or even swinging first
• 57:38
  came about it was so underground correct okay
• 57:41
  okay all right now here again here comes that
• 57:47
  word evolution it is now so so and i think about
• 57:52
  the the these ladies that i that i had at my
• 57:56
  other job that when we talked about you know
• 57:59
  the world that i live in you know the life that
• 58:03
  i live and they were so down so damn like, please
• 58:08
  tell us about all about it. You know what I mean?
• 58:12
  In the past, you couldn't have got those ladies
• 58:15
  to damn open their fucking mouth and ask me the
• 58:17
  questions that they were asking me or to like,
• 58:20
  be like, or to say, damn, I wish I had a husband
• 58:24
  like that. Or how can I approach my husband with
• 58:27
  an idea like that? You know what I mean? That's,
• 58:29
  that's, that's going from underground to above
• 58:33
  ground. So what I'm trying to say is, where do
• 58:37
  you guys think this life is going in the future?
• 58:42
  And, you know, here again, I hate the word lifestyle.
• 58:44
  Where do you think this life is going? I mean,
• 58:47
  where? I look at Splash. I look at the couples
• 58:52
  at Splash. You have a lot of couples now who
• 58:55
  are just like, fuck it. You know what I mean?
• 58:58
  This is who the fuck we are. You know, we don't.
• 59:01
  We don't. go back home and, you know, to the
• 59:05
  vanilla. This is who the hell we are. And we
• 59:07
  still have the ones who are still, you know,
• 59:10
  we do our thing here. When we leave here, we
• 59:12
  turn back into that other couple. But in my experience
• 59:18
  going around different places, I have met a lot
• 59:22
  of people and a lot of couples that are just
• 59:25
  like, you know, we aren't going to be vanilla
• 59:30
  anymore. This is who we are. Family might know.
• 59:35
  Some people might know. Colleagues might know,
• 59:38
  et cetera, et cetera. But we don't give a fuck.
• 59:41
  So that's why I'm asking. What do you guys think
• 59:43
  this world is called? I think that it's like
• 59:49
  everything else is perspective, right? And I'll
• 59:52
  say it like this. Until I was introduced to that
• 59:57
  world or this world. I was skating around it
• 1:00:03
  all day and never knew it was there. And once
• 1:00:09
  I was introduced to cuckolding, I started looking
• 1:00:12
  up information on it, and it was all over the
• 1:00:15
  fucking place. I think this lifestyle is... It's
• 1:00:23
  not going to change. The fact of the matter is...
• 1:00:30
  It's the same, and it's not there until you start
• 1:00:34
  looking for it. When you start looking for it,
• 1:00:37
  all of a sudden you realize, holy shit, this
• 1:00:39
  is all over the place. You know, when you talk
• 1:00:42
  to, I've got, we've got friends who are, well,
• 1:00:45
  I mean, hell, the couple who I first started
• 1:00:47
  with, now they're in their 60s. You know, I mean,
• 1:00:52
  they're late 60s. And they had a whole world
• 1:00:57
  that was going on. very actively that i had no
• 1:01:02
  idea existed so i don't i don't believe that
• 1:01:06
  it's so much that it's out there in everybody's
• 1:01:10
  face but it's kind of like when as soon as you
• 1:01:13
  start looking all of a sudden it's kind of like
• 1:01:16
  as soon as you buy a car You didn't realize that
• 1:01:19
  every time you blink, there's that same car.
• 1:01:22
  Like, holy shit, how many of these fucking cars
• 1:01:24
  own the home? That's how lifestyle is. Like,
• 1:01:26
  you know, before you get into lifestyle, you
• 1:01:29
  know, that's just some shit you kind of hear
• 1:01:30
  about on TV or some weird ass, you know, reality
• 1:01:34
  TV show. And then you get into it and it's like,
• 1:01:37
  holy shit, I think the neighbors are swingers.
• 1:01:39
  You know, so I don't see there being. I kind
• 1:01:46
  of think that everything is the same. Nothing's
• 1:01:49
  changed. It's just, you know, we see it everywhere,
• 1:01:52
  and it can't hide from us anymore. The blinders
• 1:01:56
  are on for us. But most of the world still has
• 1:01:59
  the blinders on. Good answer. Damn good answer.
• 1:02:04
  Socrates, Siren, or the both of y 'all together?
• 1:02:08
  Mine's going to be... I don't know. Mine's going
• 1:02:10
  to be long and complicated. So I don't know if
• 1:02:14
  Siren wants to go first. Mine was, so go ahead.
• 1:02:19
  Yeah, I'll be the happy little caboose at the
• 1:02:22
  end. Okay. So before I say what I'm saying to
• 1:02:27
  our listeners, I'm going to be the biggest hypocrite
• 1:02:29
  in the room for this. But I'm just going to stand
• 1:02:33
  ten toes down with it. And the reason why I say
• 1:02:38
  that is because By the time this episode comes
• 1:02:41
  out, we will do our best to be on TikTok, Instagram,
• 1:02:48
  Facebook, YouTube. I plan to market this as heavily
• 1:02:53
  as possible. And so I say that, and I disagree
• 1:03:02
  with Mr. Mocha. I think a tide has changed, and
• 1:03:06
  I don't like it, actually. I want our community
• 1:03:10
  to grow in numbers and lessen in attention. And
• 1:03:20
  I think there's a better word for attention,
• 1:03:22
  but maybe, I don't know, the public knowing about
• 1:03:29
  us. And here's why I say that. There's three
• 1:03:31
  reasons why I say a tide has changed. The first
• 1:03:36
  one is the biggest one and the most recent one,
• 1:03:39
  Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. That's one. The
• 1:03:43
  second was a sling. So I used to work for Dish
• 1:03:48
  Network. And they have what's called a sling
• 1:03:54
  thing. So it's like an online cable or Internet
• 1:03:58
  cable. And one of their campaigns for like a
• 1:04:03
  year was slingers. And the whole premise of their
• 1:04:07
  campaign was that these dudes that look like
• 1:04:09
  the 1960s, overly, like, outwitted swingers,
• 1:04:15
  and it was like a whole commercial series on
• 1:04:19
  it. And then the third thing was Lisa Ling did
• 1:04:24
  a show on... Naughty in New Orleans. Naughty
• 1:04:29
  in New Orleans. And to this day, like, my...
• 1:04:34
  My barber brought it up and called it the upside
• 1:04:37
  down people, upside down pineapple people. And
• 1:04:40
  I was just, I was acting like, you know, I was
• 1:04:43
  like, I don't know anything about it. And I was
• 1:04:45
  just asking questions like I normally do. And
• 1:04:47
  this dude literally thought that swingers have
• 1:04:51
  a real pineapple hanging outside the door and
• 1:04:54
  any rando can just knock on the door and then
• 1:04:56
  get it on. That's what I thought. Yeah. So. I
• 1:05:00
  think it's going to grow in both categories,
• 1:05:04
  which I obviously like being in this community.
• 1:05:07
  It's going to grow in people. But I also think
• 1:05:11
  because of a fourth, actually, a fourth thing,
• 1:05:15
  and maybe this is the point that Mr. Mocha might
• 1:05:18
  be making, so I'll concede this. I see a lot
• 1:05:21
  of new. tiktok and youtube podcasters out there
• 1:05:26
  talking about this and maybe that's where it's
• 1:05:29
  like okay what mr mocha is talking about is the
• 1:05:32
  reticular activating system so whenever your
• 1:05:34
  brain starts focusing on something it sees it
• 1:05:36
  everywhere so that one is probably just me because
• 1:05:39
  i'm i pretty much follow a lot of them and the
• 1:05:42
  algorithm is just feeding it to me but i don't
• 1:05:45
  think it's going to be good and here's where
• 1:05:47
  i think it's going I don't think it's going to
• 1:05:49
  be good because I also do notice what the vanilla
• 1:05:51
  world is saying about us. And the biggest trend
• 1:05:53
  that I've been following is that they associate
• 1:05:56
  us with P. Diddy. Like a swingers party has I've
• 1:06:03
  heard vanilla and nobody knows I'm a lifestyle.
• 1:06:06
  I've heard vanilla people just random twice.
• 1:06:09
  And I thought it was crazy. One was the post
• 1:06:11
  office. Talk about. You know, what P Diddy does
• 1:06:17
  is the same as what swingers do. And I find that
• 1:06:22
  comical. Yeah. And I've seen it a lot on TikTok,
• 1:06:25
  but I'm on TikTok a lot. But and then secondly,
• 1:06:27
  I'll say that I'll say that I think with politically
• 1:06:32
  us moving more conservative, I don't think it's
• 1:06:37
  going to be viewed as cool, even though most.
• 1:06:40
  statistically most swingers in the swinger category
• 1:06:44
  and not the poly category are conservative. I
• 1:06:47
  don't think it's going in the right direction.
• 1:06:49
  And I don't think the attention we're getting,
• 1:06:52
  because when you watch Secret Lives, they just
• 1:06:55
  put up there all the hashtags, hot wife, swinger,
• 1:06:57
  all of them, cuckold. They put it all up there
• 1:06:59
  real fast. And I'm like, these people did like
• 1:07:02
  three things on the show. And it's even debatable
• 1:07:06
  if they did any kind of real... Ethical non -monogamy
• 1:07:10
  stuff. It's not even a main part of it. It's
• 1:07:13
  mentioned like a few times. And the only reason
• 1:07:15
  why they got a show is because they talked about
• 1:07:17
  the swinger stuff. But they were really kind
• 1:07:21
  of just big Mormon TikTokers. And then that blew
• 1:07:24
  them up. So it's like, I think it's going to
• 1:07:28
  have negative repercussions. I think there's
• 1:07:32
  already a state, I think, in the Northwest that's
• 1:07:36
  now made it illegal. to be an ethical nominee?
• 1:07:39
  We lost you for a second there. Oh. Yeah. Oh,
• 1:07:46
  okay. I said, the last part I said was, there's
• 1:07:52
  even a state in the northeast that's now made
• 1:07:55
  swinging illegal. And so, I don't see a good
• 1:08:00
  trend. And like I said, I'm being a hypocrite
• 1:08:04
  because I'm on a market. the hell out of this
• 1:08:07
  show because i believe in it and siren and siren
• 1:08:09
  show and any other ones but you know that's that's
• 1:08:14
  really just because i'm like well you can either
• 1:08:16
  you know i used to be a surfer and i'm like you
• 1:08:19
  can either ride the wave and try to survive it
• 1:08:21
  in or you can try to be under it and i'm just
• 1:08:26
  riding it but i don't think it's going in a good
• 1:08:28
  direction it's so interesting because in in a
• 1:08:32
  lot of situations i'm the negative sorter And
• 1:08:35
  then you were just a negative sorter here with
• 1:08:37
  this situation. And I feel like really excited,
• 1:08:42
  actually, and hopeful. And if we had fuck you
• 1:08:46
  money, I would already be like posting on Facebook.
• 1:08:49
  Like, here is my ex account. And, you know, whatever.
• 1:08:54
  Here's my podcast. Here's everything. And if
• 1:08:56
  you don't like it, fuck you. But. I'm following
• 1:09:00
  my husband and his leadership and his vision
• 1:09:03
  and, you know, slow rolling that, but I would,
• 1:09:05
  I'd be out already. I'm, I'm tired of it, you
• 1:09:07
  know? So for a while there, it was like anybody
• 1:09:11
  that did a personal service for me, like massage
• 1:09:14
  or anything else, I would tell them all about
• 1:09:16
  it. And my husband was like, can you please like
• 1:09:19
  slow down a little bit? I'm trying to get that
• 1:09:21
  fuck you money. And then you can tell everybody
• 1:09:23
  that you want to. I think eventually, you know,
• 1:09:26
  because, you know, my my daughter who's in her
• 1:09:29
  20s knows and she could care less. Her few of
• 1:09:32
  her friends know they're like, whatever. They
• 1:09:35
  don't even talk about it. It's just we also live
• 1:09:37
  in the same state who a friend of ours just said
• 1:09:41
  another friend of hers lost her job off of the
• 1:09:44
  rumor that she was one. And we're not also going
• 1:09:47
  to mention that somebody didn't show up to our
• 1:09:49
  wedding because of it. So it is not like, don't
• 1:09:53
  get me wrong, I love this lifestyle. It introduced
• 1:09:55
  me to some of my best friends. And we have businesses
• 1:09:59
  and we have based on this community. I love it.
• 1:10:02
  But I'm not. But I think you're saying what I
• 1:10:07
  was saying. You're saying exactly what I was
• 1:10:11
  saying, that shit start changing. 20 years ago,
• 1:10:14
  you'd have lost your job if you found out you
• 1:10:16
  were a swinger. I mean, swinging will always
• 1:10:19
  have a certain type of negative connotation on
• 1:10:23
  it because you have so many people out there
• 1:10:25
  who want to keep it a secret. Yeah, they want
• 1:10:30
  to keep it a secret. In my opinion, going according
• 1:10:36
  to what you just said, If it was going in the
• 1:10:41
  direction that I think that you say it's going
• 1:10:43
  in, that means you start having states saying,
• 1:10:48
  hey, don't worry about the swinging. In my opinion,
• 1:10:51
  I think that, you know, you can be part of the
• 1:10:54
  LGBTQ community, no problem. But people still
• 1:11:01
  look down on lifestylers and swingers and people
• 1:11:04
  who are in ethical, non -monogamous relationships.
• 1:11:08
  Because there are so many people who are in positions
• 1:11:11
  of power who understand the importance of keeping
• 1:11:14
  that side of their life secret. And so, yeah,
• 1:11:17
  I definitely think that there's a lot of people
• 1:11:20
  who just not want this to become something that's
• 1:11:24
  bigger than it is. And the fact of the matter
• 1:11:27
  is, yeah, for us, our eyes are open to this particular
• 1:11:31
  thing. But it's kind of like you're saying...
• 1:11:36
  All of a sudden, there's 50, you know, a thousand
• 1:11:42
  new shows and a thousand new places to access
• 1:11:45
  the lifestyle information. That's true. But there's
• 1:11:48
  a million other things that are being thrown
• 1:11:51
  out there when it comes to all the other things
• 1:11:55
  that we are told to accept and that's being pushed
• 1:11:59
  onto the community that still keeps the LS community.
• 1:12:05
  at the same level you know what i'm saying so
• 1:12:07
  to me because i talked to i mean i talk to people
• 1:12:11
  every day who they're not they they've heard
• 1:12:17
  about it but they don't know anything about it
• 1:12:19
  but now as soon as they start researching they're
• 1:12:21
  like holy you could find this i mean i remember
• 1:12:23
  i mean one of the i mean you can go back to the
• 1:12:26
  70s and find swingers clubs there's been swingers
• 1:12:29
  clubs popping since the 70s swinging period.
• 1:12:36
  But you say swinging back further than that,
• 1:12:41
  and then we're only talking about U .S. We're
• 1:12:43
  not even talking about European stuff. And then
• 1:12:45
  when we just talk about the concept of sex and
• 1:12:48
  things like that, let's start looking at history.
• 1:12:52
  We can take this all the way back to fucking
• 1:12:53
  Rome if we want to. So the same people who are
• 1:12:58
  interested in it, those are the people who are
• 1:13:01
  going to dive into it. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:13:04
  You know, the chicks that are interested in getting
• 1:13:07
  fisted, they can find fisting material everywhere.
• 1:13:10
  You know what I'm saying? The chicks that are,
• 1:13:13
  you know, the people that are interested in anal,
• 1:13:15
  you can find anal everywhere. But once you start
• 1:13:17
  finally looking for it, it's like, man, a lot
• 1:13:20
  more people like that than I thought. Anything
• 1:13:22
  that you look at, you're going to realize that
• 1:13:24
  you're a cross -section of the world. So anything
• 1:13:28
  that you can think of. You can find a million
• 1:13:31
  people who think the same shit. You know what
• 1:13:34
  I'm saying? And now with social media being what
• 1:13:37
  it is, there's a lot more access to people who
• 1:13:40
  have the same viewpoints you have. That's why
• 1:13:43
  our political situation is so fucked up because
• 1:13:45
  everybody can find somebody with their exact
• 1:13:48
  same opinion. Sex is the same. Well, I just want
• 1:13:53
  to talk about it because I have a large group
• 1:13:55
  of friends that I've told. You know, that are
• 1:14:00
  vanilla, that are just like, oh, yeah, that seems
• 1:14:02
  like something you'd be into. And then they feel
• 1:14:04
  free to ask questions. And even if they don't
• 1:14:07
  want to participate now, it's just like a normal
• 1:14:09
  topic to them. They're like, oh, yeah, we just
• 1:14:11
  talk about it every month at Ladies Bunko. We
• 1:14:13
  just talk about it, you know, and then they ask
• 1:14:16
  questions and that's my opportunity to educate
• 1:14:18
  them. So I'm not saying, you know, I just I just
• 1:14:24
  think we're going to be another letter. eventually
• 1:14:26
  just like you know however many years ago being
• 1:14:29
  gay was like such a big deal and now it's just
• 1:14:33
  pretty much like everybody's you know knows someone
• 1:14:35
  who's gay trans or anything else so my mindset
• 1:14:39
  is to think that if I have anything to do with
• 1:14:42
  it, you know, in my small little pool of the
• 1:14:45
  world, I just want, and that's what the goal
• 1:14:47
  of my podcast is too, is just to get people to
• 1:14:50
  normalize, especially women just talking about
• 1:14:53
  their sexuality and talking about their sexual
• 1:14:56
  journey. Because then when they get to the siren
• 1:15:00
  after dark portion and they find out what's on
• 1:15:03
  that side of it, you know, I'm trying to lead
• 1:15:05
  them into that to find out the information. You
• 1:15:08
  know, it's not just about like them being curious
• 1:15:11
  and looking for it. It's like some of the women,
• 1:15:13
  you know, at Bunko, they're like, oh, what is
• 1:15:16
  that all about? And then, you know, yeah, some
• 1:15:18
  of them have some pretty twisted things, you
• 1:15:22
  know, about what swing might be or what the lifestyle
• 1:15:25
  is all about. But I just love the opportunity
• 1:15:27
  to be able to educate them. And since they already
• 1:15:32
  respect me as a person, I don't feel like. You
• 1:15:36
  know, I haven't really had I can't think of anybody
• 1:15:38
  that has negatively replied, you know, or they
• 1:15:42
  were damn good at hiding it, you know. So obviously,
• 1:15:46
  I don't know all their internal thoughts and
• 1:15:47
  feelings, but it doesn't seem to have changed
• 1:15:50
  too many of my relationships and friendships,
• 1:15:53
  you know, except like my husband mentioned the
• 1:15:56
  one person, you know, that called and said they
• 1:15:58
  weren't coming to our wedding because of it.
• 1:16:00
  But, you know, that was more carne asada tacos
• 1:16:02
  for me. Well, I was really upset about it, actually.
• 1:16:07
  It's a longtime friend that did this. But, you
• 1:16:10
  know, some will and some won't, you know? But
• 1:16:13
  I just, I want to be myself. And I've waited
• 1:16:16
  a long time to be myself. Well, let me say this.
• 1:16:19
  Let me say this. That's just one, you know, idiot
• 1:16:26
  that just doesn't get it, all right? And you're
• 1:16:32
  going to have people like that? You're going
• 1:16:35
  to have people like that, and, you know, so be
• 1:16:39
  it. Let them live their life. Yeah. Period. And
• 1:16:43
  they're missing out. They're missing out. Exactly.
• 1:16:46
  Exactly. I know in my situation, when I decided
• 1:16:51
  to be myself, and if you ask me, or if I hear
• 1:16:56
  somebody talking about it, and you ask me something,
• 1:16:58
  and I start to talk, and I start to, I didn't
• 1:17:01
  realize it, but I start to. educate them on this
• 1:17:06
  life and how this life has really benefited so
• 1:17:09
  many couples positively in their relationship
• 1:17:13
  and in their marriage. And I tell them that it's
• 1:17:19
  not about me. They're just trying to have sex.
• 1:17:22
  I was like, I am actually bending in and helping
• 1:17:28
  these other couples. And I tell them when I go
• 1:17:31
  to these events. i meet some of the happiest
• 1:17:34
  married couples in the freaking world um and
• 1:17:40
  after i talk to them like that you know such
• 1:17:42
  as the ladies um that i talk to they they start
• 1:17:45
  to get it you know i mean like and like mocha
• 1:17:48
  said they start doing their research and they
• 1:17:50
  realize you know my god this this is a whole
• 1:17:54
  nother world and i'm intrigued by it you know
• 1:17:58
  um And it's a damn shame that so many, that so
• 1:18:07
  many, and here I am talking about these vanilla
• 1:18:11
  husbands now, because the wives, they want to
• 1:18:13
  go back and down and talk about shit. They want
• 1:18:15
  to bring it up to them. But these, a lot of these
• 1:18:18
  husbands, here again, they are just, depending
• 1:18:23
  on where you come from, like here I am down here
• 1:18:25
  in the South, they just don't, you know. Don't
• 1:18:29
  get it. They just don't get it. And it's a shame.
• 1:18:35
  It really is a shame. I think that I'm 50 -50
• 1:18:40
  on this. I think there's a part of me that thinks
• 1:18:44
  a percentage of people and of couples will, you
• 1:18:51
  know, come out and just, you know, live this
• 1:18:54
  life and take it further. And then I think there's
• 1:18:57
  another 50 % of me that is kind of like maybe
• 1:19:02
  Socrates and, you know, they're just not going
• 1:19:06
  to happen. Why, I don't know, because what are
• 1:19:13
  you doing wrong? You know, when I ask the question,
• 1:19:16
  what am I doing wrong? They can't give me a fucking
• 1:19:22
  answer. Yeah, we're not hurting anyone. Do y
• 1:19:25
  'all understand what I'm talking about? You know
• 1:19:27
  what I'm saying? We ain't hurting a damn. We're
• 1:19:28
  not hurting anyone. We're not hurting anyone.
• 1:19:32
  Nobody. Everybody is understanding and knows
• 1:19:38
  what the other one is doing. Everybody's talking
• 1:19:41
  about it. You know what I mean? Open -minded,
• 1:19:45
  open communication, no lying, no cheating, no
• 1:19:49
  nothing. Right. So how are we hurting somebody?
• 1:19:54
  You know? We're hurting somebody. So that's where
• 1:19:59
  I stand. Oh, and last but not least, my baby
• 1:20:02
  girl in the last week or two has had a couple
• 1:20:08
  of conversations with some ladies that she knows.
• 1:20:11
  And I guess they got the vibe from her in conversation.
• 1:20:17
  So they asked her, you know, like... In other
• 1:20:23
  words, you know, what's your life like? What
• 1:20:26
  are you into? So she told him. She told him about,
• 1:20:30
  you know, having a husband and a boyfriend. And
• 1:20:34
  it turned into, she said, two of the greatest
• 1:20:36
  conversations that she has ever had with two
• 1:20:40
  women. And the women were like, oh, my freaking
• 1:20:43
  God. That is absolutely, after she explained
• 1:20:46
  everything to them, that's absolutely wonderful.
• 1:20:50
  Wonderful, quote unquote, I wish I had that.
• 1:20:52
  Yeah, I've had a lot of positivity talking to
• 1:20:56
  other women. Yeah, she just had one of those
• 1:20:59
  conversations today when she got a massage. She
• 1:21:04
  couldn't wait to call me and let me know, baby,
• 1:21:08
  guess what just happened? You know, her masseuse,
• 1:21:12
  they sat there and talked after the massage was
• 1:21:16
  over with. And she had a great conversation with
• 1:21:19
  her. Great conversation. So don't sit here and
• 1:21:24
  tell me that people don't want to know about
• 1:21:29
  this life. Don't tell me they're not curious.
• 1:21:32
  Don't tell me they're not, you know, a lot of
• 1:21:35
  people, a lot of people, y 'all, wish or want
• 1:21:39
  to be a part of the world that we live and love
• 1:21:43
  on a daily basis. They do. They really do. I'm
• 1:21:51
  here again. It's up for the four of us, along
• 1:21:55
  with the other members, to educate. Educate,
• 1:21:59
  educate, educate, educate. Facts. You know, don't,
• 1:22:03
  I mean, when you hear somebody talking about
• 1:22:07
  it, and they may, you know, ask you something
• 1:22:10
  about it or whatever, God damn it, tell them.
• 1:22:13
  Don't ask me no shit. I tell people right, I
• 1:22:15
  tell people quick. Don't ask me something you
• 1:22:18
  don't. You ask the right dude, okay? You ask
• 1:22:23
  the right guy. Because I'm going to tell you.
• 1:22:26
  I'm going to tell you. I don't shy away from
• 1:22:28
  anything. I don't. This is who I am. This is
• 1:22:31
  it, you know? And I just hope that this grows.
• 1:22:43
  I really do. I hope that this grows. And obviously
• 1:22:46
  it is because, you know, you're having these,
• 1:22:49
  you know, Lisa Lane and all these other TV shows,
• 1:22:54
  et cetera, et cetera. So I think it's going to
• 1:22:58
  grow. I think it's going to grow. And I'm so
• 1:23:04
  glad to be a part of it. And I'm so glad to have
• 1:23:08
  my family right here with me here again in this
• 1:23:11
  evolution of growth. I'm with it. I agree with
• 1:23:19
  what you said. I definitely think everybody's
• 1:23:21
  interested in it. Everyone is interested in anything.
• 1:23:27
  There's very few people who are not interested
• 1:23:30
  in certain things. Now, don't get me wrong. People
• 1:23:33
  go, oh my God, I can't believe you do that while
• 1:23:38
  they're watching. Look at that. I can't believe
• 1:23:40
  you're letting somebody do this to your wife.
• 1:23:44
  But they're going to ask you questions. They
• 1:23:46
  want to know about all the stuff that they're
• 1:23:48
  pretending like they're not interested in. So
• 1:23:50
  I definitely think that people want to know.
• 1:23:51
  But I also think that a whole lot more people
• 1:23:57
  than not want to keep it secret. We are a part
• 1:24:02
  of a 1 % of, we're 1 % of the 1 % of people in
• 1:24:10
  their lifestyle. and that one percent is the
• 1:24:12
  people who are actually open out there advocating
• 1:24:15
  happy to talk about happy to interact happy to
• 1:24:19
  engage but most people you know are very very
• 1:24:23
  cautious they want this to be private they don't
• 1:24:25
  want people to know what they're doing you know
• 1:24:27
  so that's what i mean when i say the the direction
• 1:24:32
  of this particular lifestyle no matter what it's
• 1:24:37
  going to be the same as it's always been for
• 1:24:39
  the simple fact that We are a very small part
• 1:24:43
  of a very, very small community when we compare
• 1:24:48
  it to the rest of the world that are interested
• 1:24:53
  in sharing our stories and hearing people. So
• 1:24:58
  the amount of people that's going to listen to
• 1:25:01
  us will far, far, far exceed the amount of people
• 1:25:05
  who will admit to joining in. and our debauchery.
• 1:25:09
  A lot more than people will listen. But, you
• 1:25:13
  know, only a small percentage of those people
• 1:25:15
  are going to be brave enough to even speak about
• 1:25:18
  it. You know, the beauty about the internet is
• 1:25:21
  those people who are scared, now they can go
• 1:25:23
  and privacy their own home and look up podcasts
• 1:25:27
  and look up information and look at a lot of
• 1:25:30
  these bullshit ass shows that don't even... shows
• 1:25:34
  lifestyle and swinging or hot wiping or cuckolding
• 1:25:37
  in the right light. But, you know, it's still
• 1:25:39
  fantasy to people. You know, so that's why when
• 1:25:42
  I say I think that it's going to kind of stay
• 1:25:47
  on the same trajectory, I think lots of people
• 1:25:53
  will continue getting into lifestyle because
• 1:25:55
  there are a lot more people in the lifestyle.
• 1:25:57
  For whatever number you think there is, there's
• 1:25:59
  a whole lot more who are very, very discreet.
• 1:26:03
  You know, and that's just how they're happy being.
• 1:26:05
  Most lifestylers don't want to be put on. They
• 1:26:09
  don't want a letter. They don't want nobody to
• 1:26:12
  know that they're a part of anything. Just leave
• 1:26:14
  us in the shadows. You know, let my wife go suck
• 1:26:19
  some dick. You know, I don't want nobody to know
• 1:26:24
  about them. Pretend like, oh, my God, your wife
• 1:26:26
  sucks dick. You fucking weirdo. Honey, make sure
• 1:26:30
  you're not sucking the same dick that she's sucking.
• 1:26:34
  You know what I'm saying? Like, that's how it
• 1:26:35
  really works. You know, it's still a secret society.
• 1:26:39
  You know what I'm saying? People still want that,
• 1:26:41
  you know, that discretion. You know, even when
• 1:26:47
  I'm looking on websites, I still have people
• 1:26:50
  say to me, hey, I'm looking for discretion. Cool.
• 1:26:54
  I mean, I'm perfectly fine with that. Like, I'm
• 1:26:56
  not going to be yelling your name from the...
• 1:26:59
  I fuck Jeannie. I fuck Jeannie. I'm not going
• 1:27:03
  to do that. I'm going to keep my mouth shut so
• 1:27:05
  I can have some more. Yeah. We never talk about
• 1:27:10
  our play partners, but I talk about myself to
• 1:27:15
  my friends. I'll tell stories, but we're very
• 1:27:18
  discreet in that stuff. I just like to talk about
• 1:27:22
  it. I love the lifestyle. I love being in it
• 1:27:26
  and with it. And it's like talking about it.
• 1:27:29
  That's why these podcasts are so fun too. So.
• 1:27:32
  Yeah, I'm just free. I'm just free with my shit.
• 1:27:35
  I'm free with it. You know, I'm like you all
• 1:27:37
  know, I'm not bringing in my, my partners, you
• 1:27:40
  know, my play partners. No, it is about their
• 1:27:44
  discretion. But if you're asking me, you know,
• 1:27:46
  how things are in the lifestyle, what's a typical,
• 1:27:49
  like, you know, if you meet somebody, how does
• 1:27:52
  that go? Then I'm going to tell you, I'm going
• 1:27:55
  to tell you. And then most of the time, they're
• 1:27:58
  like, okay, I didn't know that it was like that.
• 1:28:00
  You know what I mean? They just think you just
• 1:28:02
  meet somebody, pull your dick out, go fuck, this,
• 1:28:05
  that, da, da, da. No, they don't realize that,
• 1:28:08
  okay, the bull, I'm a bull who gets tested every
• 1:28:11
  30 days. You know, I'm a bull that when you meet
• 1:28:15
  me, I impeccable, you know, hygiene, impeccable
• 1:28:18
  manners. If I tell you I'm going to be at your
• 1:28:21
  house at 3 o 'clock, at 5 till 3. The car is
• 1:28:26
  pulling in the driveway, okay? There's a certain
• 1:28:28
  sequence of events that I go through. They don't
• 1:28:31
  realize that. They don't realize that. They don't
• 1:28:35
  realize that couples sit down and talk amongst
• 1:28:38
  themselves openly and honestly. No, they're not
• 1:28:41
  trying to hurt the other one, okay? They're being
• 1:28:44
  honest. This is what I wish that we could do
• 1:28:47
  together, or this is what I fantasize about,
• 1:28:50
  you know, et cetera, et cetera. So there's so
• 1:28:54
  much, there's so much more than just all of the
• 1:28:57
  negative bullshit that's put on television and,
• 1:29:00
  you know, so much more, so much more. Well, I
• 1:29:05
  just want one. Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. I thought
• 1:29:08
  you were finished. No, no, no, no, no. I'm done.
• 1:29:10
  Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was going to say,
• 1:29:12
  I want to get, I want to bring, you know, Mr.
• 1:29:15
  Mocha back on here. We need to do a number. a
• 1:29:18
  part two because I think we only got to age 27.
• 1:29:23
  We even got to Mrs. Mocha. You know, all of his
• 1:29:29
  escapades in the city he lives in. So I think
• 1:29:35
  we should do a part two for sure. Definitely.
• 1:29:40
  Definitely has to be a part two. You just say
• 1:29:42
  when. It ain't like the three of us don't talk
• 1:29:45
  all the time. Right, every day. I know, right?
• 1:29:51
  I know, I know. Definitely has been, this has
• 1:29:55
  been real. I've enjoyed it so much. And there's
• 1:30:00
  thunder going on in the background. And here
• 1:30:04
  again, man, I don't know, I don't know what to
• 1:30:09
  say, but you guys have... bought me out of a
• 1:30:13
  shell. He really has. He bought me out of a shell
• 1:30:15
  and it's just, it's getting better and better.
• 1:30:19
  I mean, it really is getting better and better
• 1:30:21
  because I have been the president and CEO of
• 1:30:24
  MeFi Me Incorporated for so damn long. And, you
• 1:30:28
  know, it just feels good, man, to have some true,
• 1:30:32
  some true friends and some true friends who I
• 1:30:36
  call family. I love y 'all. I do. Love y 'all
• 1:30:41
  to death. Love y 'all to death. Love y 'all to
• 1:30:45
  death. To the people out there listening, this
• 1:30:49
  is just the beginning. This is just the beginning.
• 1:30:53
  Just the beginning of this beautiful journey
• 1:30:57
  of all the family. We're going to bring this
• 1:31:01
  shit raw, unfiltered, uncensored, teaching, mentoring,
• 1:31:08
  and Getting everybody used to what this life
• 1:31:14
  is all about. Well, Mr. Mocha, you want to...
• 1:31:16
  Hey, I appreciate you having me on. Hey, man.
• 1:31:20
  Like I said, just the start of many, brother.
• 1:31:22
  Just the start of many. Mr. Mocha, let them know
• 1:31:26
  where they can find you at, bro. So you can find
• 1:31:29
  me and my wife on the O -Faces, O -F -A -C -E
• 1:31:34
  -Z podcast, and you can find us wherever you
• 1:31:37
  get your podcasts. My wife is the star of the
• 1:31:43
  show with her antics. And on the podcast, on
• 1:31:47
  Old Faces, you'll hear all of these people on
• 1:31:51
  that because they're family. So we talk to them
• 1:31:53
  all the time. We get on there. And, I mean, honestly,
• 1:31:57
  I think that we've always said. 90 % of the conversations
• 1:32:02
  that we have off air, we get through them like,
• 1:32:04
  man, we should have recorded that. So we're going
• 1:32:07
  to start getting together and recording our random
• 1:32:13
  thoughts. That's a new segment that I'm going
• 1:32:18
  to create where it's literally just random thoughts
• 1:32:20
  that we get on and we just throw things out there
• 1:32:25
  because you guys will see, especially as your
• 1:32:28
  platform begins to develop. you get a lot of
• 1:32:31
  people who just throw random things at you, random
• 1:32:33
  questions, random thoughts, and then you're like,
• 1:32:35
  wow, who can I call and throw this at? You know,
• 1:32:38
  a lot of times, you know, I'll call and, you
• 1:32:41
  know, throw stuff at the Sigma male or Socrates
• 1:32:47
  or Mike, you know, so next time I get something,
• 1:32:51
  next time somebody throws something at me, I'll...
• 1:32:55
  You can check out the Old Faces podcast while
• 1:32:57
  I hot potato it to one of the films. True, true,
• 1:33:04
  true. True. Oh, man. Suck it to you, Simon. Y
• 1:33:09
  'all got anything to say before we close this
• 1:33:12
  one out, I guess? My lovely wife, you want to
• 1:33:14
  go first? I just feel privileged to just be a
• 1:33:17
  little bit of feminine energy in this space.
• 1:33:21
  I've enjoyed you fellas. And I always enjoy the
• 1:33:23
  podcast. I said, I may go in a little, a little
• 1:33:26
  tired after a long day, but I always just feel
• 1:33:30
  like my spirit is renewed and refreshed after,
• 1:33:32
  after sitting and talking to you guys and listening.
• 1:33:36
  I love it. Thank you guys. Thank you, sir. Yeah.
• 1:33:42
  So really quick, let me make this quick. I consider
• 1:33:48
  Mr. Mocha one of my best friends. Like, this
• 1:33:50
  guy, you know, I'll take a bullet for this man.
• 1:33:53
  Like, this brother showed me what being a part
• 1:33:58
  of a brotherhood really means. And I have to
• 1:34:02
  thank him. I love you back, man. I appreciate
• 1:34:04
  that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have to thank my
• 1:34:08
  wife. Because if it wasn't for her insisting
• 1:34:12
  on... on black dick and i and i there's two things
• 1:34:17
  she made me do first she made me um look up you
• 1:34:22
  know conventions or you know uh hotel takeovers
• 1:34:27
  that have some brothers that and i was like okay
• 1:34:29
  there's two i know about we ended up at splash
• 1:34:31
  mocha then secondly she saw um you know dark
• 1:34:36
  gable over here the man of steel and she's like
• 1:34:40
  well i'm gonna get this i want to get you gotta
• 1:34:43
  start you gotta start you gotta start making
• 1:34:45
  people think this they're gonna see me like what
• 1:34:47
  the fuck is wrong these guys and um she said
• 1:34:53
  she said talk to him for me daddy and i you know
• 1:34:57
  i wrote up to him and then you know i found a
• 1:35:01
  friend you know i found somebody that elevates
• 1:35:05
  me and challenges me and, you know, holds me
• 1:35:08
  accountable, but at the same time loves the shit
• 1:35:10
  out of me. So I just want to say, you know, you
• 1:35:13
  guys check his podcast out and you learn so much.
• 1:35:17
  I listened to it before I met him. I didn't even
• 1:35:19
  realize that was him. And then, you know, I'm
• 1:35:23
  just so excited about what all of us have in
• 1:35:25
  store for the future. I appreciate it. Absolutely.
• 1:35:30
  A wealth of knowledge, ladies and gentlemen.
• 1:35:33
  he has a wealth of knowledge all right um my
• 1:35:38
  brother from another mother uh he's a gentleman
• 1:35:41
  he's a family man um and i don't know what to
• 1:35:45
  say about this that's my dog that's all it is
• 1:35:49
  to it he is my dog he really is and uh again
• 1:35:54
  love you love you like love you man i'm bad just
• 1:35:57
  that's it just like you know you're in you're
• 1:36:01
  in socrates um You guys don't know what you mean
• 1:36:04
  to me. You really don't. Yeah, we do. We mean
• 1:36:08
  the same thing to each other. We know. We know.
• 1:36:12
  All right. All right. As much time we spend talking
• 1:36:16
  to each other, we know. Yeah. Yeah, we do. We
• 1:36:20
  do. We damn sure do. We damn sure do. And like
• 1:36:23
  I said, it's just getting better, man. Just getting
• 1:36:25
  better. You know? And I guess on that note, if
• 1:36:30
  everybody said what they have said, We'll go
• 1:36:33
  ahead and close it out. As usual, ladies and
• 1:36:36
  gentlemen, thank you. Thank you so much for being
• 1:36:40
  a part of another exciting and wonderful and
• 1:36:44
  informative podcast, The Bull Brotherhood. And
• 1:36:48
  a special shout out to our special guest, Mr.
• 1:36:53
  Mocha. I'm the Sigma Male, B. Morgan. And for
• 1:36:58
  Socrates and Siren. We just give a shout out
• 1:37:02
  to all the brothers out there, all of our bulls,
• 1:37:05
  saying good night. And, of course, to all of
• 1:37:09
  my hard wives, good morning. Auf Wiedersehen.
• 1:37:15
  Bye -bye. Good night.