Latest / Brett Keane and Eve Show / Brett Keane and Brother Maverick LIVE: Muslim Apologists Can’t Defend the Qur’an—Call the Show!

Transcript

Brett Keane and Brother Maverick LIVE: Muslim Apologists Can’t Defend the Qur’an—Call the Show! · Brett Keane and Eve Show

0:08
the sky, gazing far into the night, I raised my hand to the
0:16
fire. But it's no use 'cause you can't
0:20
stop it from shining through. It's true, baby.
0:21
Let the light shine through. If you.
0:23
Believe it's true, baby, won't you let the light?
2:24
gazing far. The answer The night I raise my
2:29
hand to the fire. But it's no use 'cause you can't
2:34
stop it from shining through. It's true, but it let.
2:36
The light shines through if you believe it's true, but it won't.
2:48
Let the light it shines. Through.
3:53
What's going on Ladies and gentlemen, thank you guys so
3:55
much for joining today's live stream.
3:57
Oh my gosh, I forgot to fix my camera y'all I forgot to fix my
4:00
camera. I'm so sorry.
4:00
Give me a second Let me open up. Let me open up the live
4:04
controller. Oh man, you.
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That's why. That's why instead of minimizing
4:08
instead of closing out minimal oh y'all just looking at my
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light. Ain't that crazy, Ain't that
4:12
crazy Hold on. Let me see if this works now.
4:15
Hey, don't worry now. Uh oh.
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Connect the device with a type C cable to start.
4:20
What you talking about Willis? Hold on.
4:34
OK, guys, I'm hoping that that's going to do something.
4:35
Here, let me go to my Insta 360 camera one.
4:39
Let's go to the camera 1 scene. Oh my goodness.
4:43
OK, here we go. Oh my goodness.
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The camera's not working at all. Hold on.
4:56
Give me a second. Guys, I'm so sorry.
4:59
I don't know why this camera, it updated today and now it's
5:01
acting crazy. It's not even responding.
5:04
Preview already occupied by another program.
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Yeah, I know AI tracking will turn that on, but I'm using the
5:12
it's not even powered on. That's the crazy part.
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MS3 Insta 360 here. Let's deactivate it and then
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activate it. There we are.
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OK. Looks like he's awake.
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There we go. Hey, guys.
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AI is not perfect. AI is not perfect.
5:31
I will tell you guys that right now.
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From the book of Mika, chapter 6, verse 8.
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What do we got? He has shown you, old man, What
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is good? Let me lower his music a little
5:41
bit. Yeah, That's good, man.
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That's good. That's good.
5:45
That's good He has shown you, old man, what is good and what
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does the Lord require of you to act justly and to love mercy and
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to walk humbly with your God. Now, what does brother Phil Weir
5:56
had to say about that? What are the thoughts on today's
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verse? Well, it says that sometimes we
6:02
need God to make what He wants from us plain and simple to
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understand. I need to handle those around me
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justly, practicing patience and dealing with others in fairness
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without partiality and treating them as I would like to be
6:17
treated. I also need to practice mercy,
6:20
blessing others in need with what they don't deserve but so
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greatly need. I need to walk humbly with my
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ABBA Father, knowing that without His grace and help I
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will fall short and I will fail every single time.
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That every single time. That's compliments of Brother
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Maverick, because I can tell you time and time again I fail every
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single time. I need to act justly and to love
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mercy and to walk humbly with my God.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that you need the same.
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Here's the prayer, guys. If you want to pray with me,
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please pray with me. Did my camera freeze?
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Is my camera frozen? My goodness gracious.
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All right. It looks frozen on on OBS
6:56
Studio. What is going on with the
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cameras today? What?
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No, no, no. For the stream one, because
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there's different. There are different cameras.
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That's why. So this would be probably camera
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one. Let's see.
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Yeah, it's frozen. OK, let's deactivate it and
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activate it because these things are driving me absolutely insane
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today, guys. Oh my goodness.
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What are they doing? Top right?
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Yeah, but that was for a different camera set.
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OK, there we go. OK, we're good.
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We're back, guys. We're back.
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Yeah, that's dude I got I got so many cameras.
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So the the camera I did an update for was the Insta 360 and
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then the one that's acting up right now is connected to the
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streaming PC, which is a Logitech Brio.
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We're back. We're back guys, no big deal, no
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big deal. All right here's the prayer
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guys. Father, please make of me what
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you will as you fashion me. Please bless me as I seek to be
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a person of justice, mercy and humility.
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I know you identify yourself as the I am known by your righteous
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character, gracious compassion and faithful, loving kindness in
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Jesus name and through the power of the Holy Spirit, I seek to
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become more like you. I am thankful for Mika who made
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clear that this begins with me acting justly, loving mercy, and
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walking humbly with you. Please help as I depend on your
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grace and the power of the Holy Spirit to do just that.
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In Jesus, holy and precious and beautiful name, we pray and all
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peoples, all God's people say Amen and Amen and Amen.
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Oh my goodness gracious, hold on a second, where?
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Where you at? Hold on run the breath.
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They don't see you. They don't see you on the shorts
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one. They see you here.
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Oh my gosh and I froze again man, this is crazy.
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This is crazy Terry hold on. This is crazy work that this
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thing keeps on Yep this this thing is like I don't know guys.
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I I know I know I know the enemy does not want us doing this.
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I know he doesn't, but at the end of the day, he's not going
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to stop us. You know what we're going to do
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we're going to stop. We will fix what we got to fix
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and we're going to keep moving. Let me catch up on chat while we
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are fixing Hello brother maverick and my fellow brother
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said hello brother Mike, welcome, welcome, welcome,
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welcome, hello godsness. Welcome to the chat guys ignore
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the blue screen. I'm just trying to reactivate
9:14
this camera. There it is there it is there.
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It is. Now what I wanted to do guys was
9:20
but not only fix that was yo-yo man, how's it going?
9:24
What up Slurpee type? Yup, guys, I'm going to keep,
9:27
I'm going to keep manual check of the prayer requests because I
9:29
never got to get that thing working again.
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And I had like literally six other things I was trying to do.
9:34
It's frozen over. Yeah, I fixed it up.
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I fixed it up. I don't know why, guys, I moved
9:38
the cameras a little bit because they were too high looking down
9:40
and looked weird. I didn't want anybody looking
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down at me like, like, it was just a weird angle.
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So I changed them up. Prayer requests received.
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Who? Who, who did a prayer?
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I was going to say that. Damn, cameras are having a sick
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day. Yeah, no kidding, right.
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Hello, a Christian. Welcome.
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Welcome. Somebody did a prayer request,
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and I don't know where it's at. Oh, you're testing for prayer.
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OK, Mike. Oh, thank God.
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All right. I was like, man, I was scared.
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OK, now video ninja guest here. Let me open up and fix that
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because I know it's somebody else.
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I just need this. OK, so we're going to copy that
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link. Let's go in here.
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It looks exactly the same. Why am I not seeing Brother
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Mike? Oh, I think I just OK, I might
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have just yeah, I'm not seeing it at all.
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Can you believe that? Right.
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I know that's that's that's not yeah, I'm talking about on the
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shorts. Not not on here.
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This is fine. Like you guys can see here.
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We're good to go. But I'm talking about on the
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YouTube shorts live. The link has not changed unless
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I'm just crazy, unless unless I have to.
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You know what let me just delete it.
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I guess delete it and add it again.
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But that's that's insane. What OK here.
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That's and that's on sources Sources.
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It's not working here either Video ninja guest.
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Let's let's fix that up. Yeah, you're not you're not that
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so that you're looking at a different, different St. you're
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looking at the horizontal St. type error and chat.
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Yeah, we got that. All right, So here, let's delete
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this. We don't need you guest.
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Let's add it again. Browser source.
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Give me like a less than a minute guys new and we're going
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to call we're going to put the source in there and we'll do
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1920 by 1080. I don't know why it's the the
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thing didn't change or maybe it didn't need to refresh.
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Who knows? OK, that's not it.
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That is not it. Create a group using over your
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Oh, so it would probably help if I wasn't stupid and use the
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right link, right guys, that that would probably help.
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Here we go. Let's see if that works.
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There we go. OK, I was worried for a second
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there guys, because holy goodness gracious, I was like,
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yo, so behind the scenes guys, I was trying to be a good host and
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like, you know, try to make sure that you guys had like high
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quality and all this other stuff.
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But obviously it actually was causing problems.
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And brother Brett called me on the phone and he was like, yo,
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Maverick, your stuff's all jacked up, bro.
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And I was like, what you talking about, man?
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He was like, yo, yeah, you got to look at that stuff.
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So I went up and I there it was. So let's paste it here so that I
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can have it and the other one too, so that when we were
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starting recording. Sorry about that guys.
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Thank you guys for being patient.
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I would like for there's GOD TV radio.
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I got scared I was like it's taking forever.
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It was taking forever all right so we're going to go ahead and
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go down, go down, go down, go down and we're 10 looking good
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looking good GOD TV radio looking good bro, as always
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looking sexy looking sexy dog. You know what I'm saying looking
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looking like sex appeal. All right, cool.
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All right, guys, You know what I mean.
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You got. Yeah, Make sure you got the
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stuff right. Oh, this is where it wasn't
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working. Browser, man, This is.
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I'm just not going to catch a break today, am I?
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At existing source. We'll do browser two.
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OK, There we go. There we go.
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It's there. It's there.
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And then we just go down. Boom, boom, boom.
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That should be good. That's good.
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All right, guys. So we did the prayer of the day.
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I am so sorry, guys. I spent God knows how much time
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getting ready and still there were things that were acting
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funky, which I wouldn't have known anyway.
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So you know what guys? Let's what I want to do is while
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we're waiting, the today's theme is very simple.
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Muslim apologists cannot actually defend the Quran,
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right? And, and the reason I bring this
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up, it was, it was actually Brett Keene who who gave me this
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inspiration. And the reason why he gave me
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this inspiration guys, is because I noticed that he said
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something about atheists that is equally true about Muslims.
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They are so afraid to defend their, their farce of a book
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known as the Quran that they actually can't do it.
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That's why they try so hard to only talk about the Bible.
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They only want to talk about the Bible for only for one simple
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reason. Guys, we have somebody else in
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the chat in the do We have somebody else here?
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Is somebody else in the room? I don't think so.
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Oh, oh, Oh, yeah. OK.
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Yeah. It would help if I, OK, I had
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opened it down here to get the link.
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That's why I got scared. I was like, who else is in here?
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So the only reason they do that guys, is because they feel like
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if they keep Christians talking about the Bible, then they don't
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have to talk about the Quran. But that's our fault because we
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let them get away with that garbage.
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Like here's the thing. Why are we talking about the
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Bible which has withstood the time a Right.
15:18
It has withstood the test of time.
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It is withstood time. It is withstood philosophy.
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It has withstood contradiction. It is withstood anything that
15:27
you can think of, anything that people have have tried to throw
15:30
at it, the Bible has survived it.
15:32
The Quran, however, is not discussed anywhere near as much
15:37
as the Bible is. And it makes you wonder why they
15:39
want to discuss the Trinity. They want to discuss the Bible.
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They want to try to throw out their little, their little fake
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contradictions that they say the Bible has and hope to God that
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you don't have an answer. But they refuse to discuss the
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farce that is the Quran. And it was, again, Brother Brett
15:55
Keene who actually brought that to my attention and, and, and
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said, as atheists, we practice to keep Christians on their
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heels. And we want to keep Christians
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on their heels because they know that they cannot defend the
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supposed morality that they feel like they have on their own
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without God. And those are philosophical
16:15
conversations that they look like clowns always trying to
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defend, even more so with Muslims, right?
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Because they want to say that they have the Quran.
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They want to say that the Quran of this word of God.
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They want to say that the Bible has contradictions.
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They want to say that the Bible has been corrupted.
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But not a single one ever has evidence ever, not ever has
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evidence of this nonsense that they try to spiel about the
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Bible, right? Brother Brett, can you tell me
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more about that, about how when you were an atheist, it was like
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you didn't want to have to field certain questions.
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So instead what you did was you trained yourself to try to keep
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Christians on their heels by barraging them as questions so
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that they could never get to trying to build a narrative, A
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narrative back against you. Is that like pretty accurate?
17:46
Correct. Yeah, so it looks like we
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already have a couple of spineless Muslims in the chat
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who are not coming into the chat.
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And I think it hilarious that they're talking garbage in the
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chat but won't come in the chat. Now don't listen.
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If you guys have an opinion on it, you have an opinion on it,
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No problem. But I promise you that if you
18:08
come in here, I'm going to slam whatever lies it is that you're
18:11
trying to tell. Like look at this guy, literally
18:13
Quran dated to the prophet in Birmingham.
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And I already have debunked that many, many times on this channel
18:21
right now. Crossing with that live forward
18:24
slash call If you think that you're going to be the first one
18:28
ever to disprove biblical history.
18:30
So you said that the Quran is perfect that I want to find who
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it was that said that that was Kaya Fayaz who said cringe.
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We talk about the Bible only to Christians to show them how
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ridiculous it is to believe in the Bible.
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The Quran is perfect. So let me get this straight.
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You criticize the Bible to Christians because you don't
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believe in it, yet you turn around and claim that the Quran
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is perfect without applying that same scrutiny to your own book.
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That is not argumentation. That is selective bias dressed
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up as arrogance. If we're going to have an honest
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conversation, let's hold both texts of the same standard, OK?
19:03
The Quran is perfect Based on what?
19:05
Contradictions. The Quran contradicts itself on
19:08
basic theology. For example in the Quran chapter
19:11
4 verse 157 says Jesus was not crucified but the Quran in
19:15
Chapter 9 verse 33 says has Jesus saying peace is on me the
19:19
day I was born, the day I die, and the day I shall be raised
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alive. That's a crucifixion prophecy
19:24
and you want to talk about preservation?
19:26
Muslims claim all the time that the that the Quran has never
19:30
been changed. Then why do the 10 accepted
19:33
kitaat readings differ in wording, grammar, and sometimes
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entire theological meaning? Period.
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Right. This isn't recitation style,
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it's variance in context. Now we can talk about scientific
19:45
errors as well. The Quran 86 in chapter 86
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versus 6 and seven. It says man is created from a
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fluid that emerges from between the backbone and the ribs.
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That's biological nonsense, right?
19:58
Then you mock Christians for believe in the Bible, yet your
20:00
own belief is blind. You don't test your own
20:03
scriptures. You don't ask hard questions
20:05
about how Uthman burned every Quran variance in the 7th
20:08
century. And if you want to go ahead and
20:10
verify that your own books, your own writing say that and Sahi al
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Bukhari, 660-1510, 661-5510, you avoid the fact that early
20:20
companions of Muhammad like Ibn Masood rejected parts of the
20:23
Quran as compiled by Uthman. And you know why Christians
20:26
believe in the Bible? Because it's rooted in history,
20:29
fulfilled prophecy and eyewitness testimony.
20:31
It had over 40 authors across 3 continents for over 1500 years,
20:35
all unified in the message. It has fulfilled prophecies like
20:38
the ones in Isaiah chapter 53 and Daniel Chapter 9 which point
20:42
directly to Jesus Christ. And archaeology confirms
20:45
biblical sites such as the Book of Kings, empires, and even
20:49
specific names like Pontius Pilate.
20:51
And you can actually see the pilot stone that was discovered
20:53
in 1961. So the final word behind such an
20:56
idiotic comment is that if you're so confident the Bible is
20:59
ridiculous and the Quran is perfect, why are you only
21:01
attacking the Bible in front of Christians instead of defending
21:04
your own text and right in front of other people?
21:06
And we'll be honest, it's because you don't apply equal
21:09
scrutiny. Because deep down you know that
21:11
the Bible can stand the fire and your book can't even stand its
21:15
own conception. So please, if you want to
21:18
discuss that more, please call in cross unit dot live forward
21:21
slash call, cross unit dot live forward slash call, please.
21:28
What's up? Hold on.
21:36
Muted. All right, Go ahead.
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Yeah, it was muted on the mixer. Go ahead.
21:39
I forgot to unmute it. You're good now.
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Unfortunately, everything I said earlier.
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Go ahead. You, you repeat it, man.
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That's good. That's that's good television.
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You go ahead, brother. Say what you got to say.
21:48
All right, so basically I had stated earlier that Muslims and
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atheists tend to like to be the aggressor in debates where they
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put the Bible on trial and interrogate the Christian
21:59
repeatedly. Christians need to learn how to
22:02
take the position of being the aggressor and go after their
22:06
world views. Atheists will melt within 10
22:09
minutes if you go after their world view because they have no
22:12
foundation. Muslims will try to be dishonest
22:15
about what their book actually says.
22:17
About 15 minutes they go down if you take them to task there.
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You go Amen, Amen. And that's exactly why we have
22:24
people in the chat who will not type into their browser of
22:27
choice or click the link. Cross unit dot live forward
22:30
slash call, cross unit dot live cross unit, all one word dot
22:34
live forward slash call. Come in here and prove that the
22:37
Quran is perfect. Now, I don't want you.
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Now here are the rules. We're going to go over the
22:43
rules, guys, because I'm going to tell you what chatter babies,
22:46
What's going to end up happening is you're going to have another
22:48
Muslim in here who's going to start crying like Habibi did and
22:52
every other Muslim who's gotten spanked live in front of a live
22:55
studio audience. And they're going to whine and
22:58
say that I'm talking over them and I'm not being fair and blah,
23:01
blah, blah, blah, blah. So here are the rules.
23:04
When you call in, I'm going to say them once and I'm going to
23:06
say them once only. When you call into the show, you
23:09
state your claim and you make your opening statement and it
23:12
better be based on evidence and facts and whatever else it is.
23:15
You have the names of scholars, their credentials, I don't care
23:17
what it is, it just better be backed by something.
23:20
You mute your mic when you've completed your statement or I'll
23:22
mute it for you. Wait until the host has compiled
23:26
his rebuttal before has completed his rebuttal before
23:29
unmuting yourself. Compiled and completed before
23:31
unmuting yourself. During any and all counter
23:34
rebuttals, present them with facts and evidence or you will
23:37
be kicked. If you present an opinion and no
23:40
facts, you will be given one more chance and then you will be
23:42
removed. Maintain a respectful demeanor
23:45
at all times regardless of your stance.
23:46
This is the part that I have the hardest time with atheist and
23:50
with Muslims. These are the 2 because it
23:52
doesn't seem to click and and I'm going to tell you why it
23:54
doesn't click because you guys know you have no evidence to try
23:58
to counter man the Bible right? So I'm going to say it again
24:01
during any and all kind of rebuttals, present them with
24:04
facts and evidence or you will be kicked.
24:07
All right. So when you say, for example,
24:10
the lie, the Bible has been corrupted and we can prove that
24:14
with this manuscript that we have, we can prove that with the
24:17
study from this scholar. If you say that we know the
24:20
Bible's been corrupted and then you move on.
24:22
I'm a pull the, the, the Kevin Hart on you.
24:24
Wait a minute, wait a minute. We know we're not going to just
24:27
speed past that. Like you didn't just say what
24:28
you just said, right? That's exactly what I'm going to
24:31
do to you. And I'm going to stop you from
24:32
talking until you have evidence to provide.
24:35
If you present an opinion in no facts, you will be given one
24:37
more chance. Then you will be removed.
24:39
That's it. And that's all guys.
24:40
That's not difficult if you can't understand it.
24:42
I understand that you're used to thinking that you have morality
24:45
without God, or I understand that you think that the Koran is
24:48
a true word of God. But if you think those things,
24:50
then the fact of the matter is that you are further gone than
24:53
we thought. And I get it.
24:55
Basic instruction is beyond you because you're just used to
24:57
being talked at and believing whatever you want.
24:59
But when it comes down to it, you better be ready to come with
25:01
the Thunder in here. Now, while we are doing that, I
25:06
want to bring up what brother Brett Keene.
25:09
I I had it, it was on rumble, Dang it.
25:11
And I closed it out because I was doing something else, trying
25:13
to fix something. But that's OK.
25:14
That's why I got the text app. I'm so glad that my text
25:17
massages are linked. That way I can just go back and
25:20
I will click the link that he gave me because it was a link
25:24
where brother Brett was on a rumble call.
25:28
Well, not on a rumble call. He was on his rumble channel and
25:30
he called in to atheist Matt Dillahunty, who didn't like a
25:34
whole lot of what Mr. Brett was talking about.
25:36
So while we waiting for Muslims to come in and just stop
25:40
chatting in the chat. Thank you guys for raising my
25:41
analytics, but I'm not going to debate you in the comment
25:43
section. Bring your bring your spineless
25:46
self in here. Try to defend that farce that is
25:48
not God's word called the Quran. Otherwise you, you're, you're
25:51
wasting your breath. Nobody's paying attention to
25:53
you, right? So go ahead, keep trying to
25:56
bring in whatever it is that you want, but you're going to lose.
26:00
All right, guys. So we're going to go ahead and
26:02
you will still hear Brother Brett's voice, but we're going
26:04
to look at a different scene here.
26:05
We're going to look at the game scene here.
26:07
This is Brett Keene calls #atheist Matt Dillahunty.
26:12
Guys, we are going now. And for all through all
26:15
transparency, Brett, when you sent this to me, I didn't want
26:18
to watch it. I didn't watch it.
26:20
I wanted to watch it with you and I didn't want to ruin any of
26:23
the surprises because like any laughs or anything like that, I
26:26
want them to be like genuine and first time.
26:28
I am reacting to this video to the first time same as you guys
26:32
are OK guys have. The time for me.
26:34
So we're going to go back a little bit to 0 seconds, guys.
26:39
This is brother Brett Keene of GOD TV Radio calling into the
26:43
show. And it was atheist Matt
26:45
Dillahunty, who we know to be a homosexual man.
26:48
And Aran Rah. Was it Aran Rah?
26:53
No, it was Matt's, one of his boyfriend girlfriend things.
26:58
And a couple. Other atheist I got I got to
27:00
warn you though, because of your audience.
27:03
Matt lost his his his net on this so that's OK foul.
27:07
Words. That's OK.
27:08
He that's, that's that is par for the course for him.
27:11
He is a petulant child who doesn't like the truth.
27:13
That's OK. There's everybody that is an
27:15
adult here. My, my streams are 18 and over.
27:17
I'm not the one swearing. If, if, if we're going to expose
27:20
atheism for the petulant tantrum that it is, then that's only
27:22
going to be perpetuated through this conversation.
27:25
So you good with me playing, playing, pressing the play
27:27
button or? You rock'n'roll.
27:30
Let's. Get it.
27:31
Let's get it, baby. Let's get it.
27:33
Still waiting. Cross unit dot live forward
27:34
slash call. You can argue in the comment
27:36
section all you want, or you can have a backbone and try to
27:38
defend that farce of a Quran. Let's go cross unit dot live
27:41
forward slash call. Still waiting.
27:42
Still waiting. Missouri Brett, you're on.
27:49
Hey, how you doing? I hope you guys are having a
27:51
nice Christmas, Yeah. Thank you a good Sunday.
27:57
Well, I I do have a couple questions if you guys have the
28:00
time for me. One of the first questions I
28:06
have is I used to be a former atheist myself.
28:09
I think some of you might actually Remember Me being one
28:13
of the first to come to social media and make videos and all
28:17
that. I spent a great deal of time
28:20
listening to atheists. I've got a lot of friends who
28:22
are non believers and I discovered that on YouTube a lot
28:26
of them say I'm happy, I'm fine with being an atheist, I don't
28:31
need God, I don't need the Bible.
28:33
But when they're in private with people, they say things like I'm
28:37
suicidal, I'm unhappy, I have a lot of psychological issues
28:42
because of abuse or tragedies that have happened in my life.
28:46
And it's really correlated with my concept or belief and a
28:49
higher power in the universe. And I was wondering why do you
28:52
think it is that non believers act one way on video but in
28:58
private with people that they trust or respect they'll say
29:02
things like this. Why?
29:03
Why the double face for? I can honestly say, guys, that I
29:07
don't see Matt Dillahunty's face, right?
29:09
Right. We're only a minute and 22 in,
29:11
and I can already see him rolling his eyes because the
29:15
minute and I know Matt Dillahunty well enough to know
29:18
that the minute that Brett said I used to be an atheist, he's
29:22
already pissed off because he cannot stand that anyone who
29:27
would ever have shared his worldview would dare to believe
29:31
in what he thinks is something so ridiculous.
29:33
So I'm going to continue on. Hey, Brett, so when you were an
29:36
atheist, you didn't learn how to make an honest argument, right?
29:40
I've made plenty of arguments. How come AC?
29:43
Who's this talking right now, Brett?
29:48
Hello. I'm sorry, I was listening on
29:52
the outside the broadcast because I can't hear it in here.
29:54
And you're good. How?
29:55
Who is this talking right now? If it's the first person that
29:59
answered, yeah, they are. They are not somebody who's like
30:03
real big. Matt Dillahunty's obviously the
30:06
big player, right? This was just the Co host he had
30:09
with him at the time. OK, so it's this isn't even Matt
30:11
Dillahunty. So the the person who is already
30:14
accusing you of being intellectually dishonest is not
30:16
even the one you called in to speak to.
30:19
You know, but Matt is there. You'll hear him in the
30:21
background. So I'm going to let this clown
30:24
get through whatever, whatever talking points he has, and then
30:26
we'll, we'll, we'll see what Matt has to say.
30:28
He is do this one way what not How come there's a group of
30:32
people? How come some people do this?
30:34
I love this categorical. How come atheists do this one?
30:39
Where is this this why the double face from atheist?
30:43
Yeah, there's plenty of people in lots of different categories
30:46
who are not going to go public with their private concerns,
30:49
people's personal mental health issues and troubles and trials.
30:52
Of course, that's more likely to be discussed with friends than
30:55
just with us. I can tell you this, I am not
30:57
now nor have I ever been suicidal.
31:00
I did not. I was not wronged in any way.
31:02
And I'm happy to answer almost any question about my life.
31:05
But if you're going to call in and be, oh, I used to be an
31:08
atheist. And why do you think atheists
31:10
are like this? Well, I want to know why you
31:12
used to be an atheist, why you're not anymore, and why when
31:15
you're asking this question, did you frame this the way Jimmy
31:17
pointed out that, oh, why do atheists do this?
31:19
You don't think Christians do this?
31:21
You don't think Mormons do this? You don't think Jews?
31:23
I mean, Mormons are probably some of the worst of it because
31:26
they have a church encouraging them to put a good face on
31:29
things public. Well, the reason why I bring it
31:33
up is it's something that's been going on for the last 20 years.
31:36
According to stats, atheists have quadrupled the amount of
31:40
suicide rate as well as substance abuse over any group
31:44
out there. It's been going on for.
31:47
Are you capable of actually addressing the issue honestly?
31:51
Yeah, I'm asking why do you think the stats are that
31:53
atheists had they just a massive amount of suicide rate and
31:57
substance abuse? Oh, OK.
32:01
Now you've had a such distribution in it too.
32:04
Go ahead, Ben. Well, well, my.
32:06
Question is like how did you, how did you relate the the
32:10
depression and and mental health issues to the lack of belief
32:14
when at least in my experience, any issues that I've had with
32:17
that have been related to human beings doing things to other
32:21
human beings. So how is that related to the
32:24
belief or lack of lack thereof, and not caused by something else
32:30
that is, you know, more mundane? Well, just earlier today I did
32:34
my own live show on GOD TV Radio and I had atheist on there and
32:39
they did exactly the same thing except for one of them.
32:42
He was very, very honest. Now it took a little while but
32:45
some of them started admitting because of their parenting.
32:48
Well, mute. Mute Brett's dishonest fucking
32:52
ass. Don't you dare, Sir.
32:54
Pretend that they all did the same thing, but one of them was
32:57
honest. Go fuck yourself.
32:58
They were. So.
33:01
This is This is Matt Dillahunty guys.
33:04
This is the man who that the one who just told Brett to go F
33:08
himself is Matt Dillahunty. The one who ran away like a
33:12
sniveling girl when Andrew Wilson exposed that he was in a
33:17
relationship with a biological male and therefore that's why he
33:22
cared so much about Mike Johnson and the supposed anti homosexual
33:26
laws that weren't actually in existence.
33:28
But he was sitting there crying and playing the victim.
33:31
So the minute that now mind you, I want you guys to realize that
33:35
Matt Dillahunty more than likely didn't hear Brett King's show
33:39
right? So how the hell would he know
33:42
what happened there? He's now he's immediately
33:44
calling him dishonest because he feels, subjectively, that Brett
33:48
is being dishonest, but he has no way to verify that.
33:51
He didn't go back to listen to the show.
33:52
He didn't read the transcript. Am I?
33:54
Am I right, brother Brett? He didn't read OK.
33:58
So now he is again. These are the people that you
34:01
guys, as atheists, think are intellectual.
34:04
The man who opened his fat mouth and didn't even bother to look
34:08
back at Brett's show and say, is this what really happened?
34:11
Now, a real true intellect would have said, I didn't see the
34:14
show. I don't know if they're really
34:15
atheist. He could have went any other
34:17
direction but the way he did. But the first thing he did was
34:19
start crying like a girl and tell the guy to mute Brett
34:22
because he didn't like that atheism was being exposed for
34:25
the garbage that it is. Which is exactly why I'm so
34:28
happy to expose Islam for what it is, a lie.
34:31
And I still have yet to get a caller in here.
34:33
This is why we were doing a review of the video.
34:35
A joyous, happy attitude. They're playing.
34:37
Yeah, You're going to notice as I'm talking, they're going to
34:40
continue to try to dodge and they're going to continue to try
34:44
to take it into a biblical God topic, right?
34:46
But notice how I just kind of ignore that and keep going along
34:50
my way? Right, Yeah.
34:53
You know, I I'm seeing a lot of Muslims in the chat.
34:56
I am seeing a lot of Muslims in the chat.
34:57
I see Muslim Raisin head. I see I think ducks.
35:02
I at the end of the day, you guys are all in the chat, but
35:05
none of you have the cojones to call into the show cross unit
35:09
dot live forward slash call. Well, I assure you, I will blast
35:13
that garbage called the Quran in front of your face and I will re
35:17
and I will make sure that I upload the conversation for the
35:19
entire world to see. And I'm going to tell you why it
35:21
irritates the hell out of me because I'm sick of you guys and
35:25
Ali Dawa and Libiano and everybody else talking in their
35:29
echo chambers thinking that they have figured out how to to deny
35:34
the divinity of Christ and how they can deny the Trinity and
35:37
how they can try to deny the credibility of the Bible.
35:40
But none of those cowards, including none of the ones in my
35:43
chat today, have the intestinal fortitude to to type cross unit
35:48
dot live forward slash call and call the show and say here I
35:51
will show you and prove to you that the Bible is corrupted.
35:54
Here I will show you and prove to you that the Koran is
35:56
perfect. Now mind you, don't be like the
35:58
guy who called the other day who said that he knows 150,000% that
36:02
there's only one Koran. As I showed on my screen that
36:05
there was several different Korans that have several textual
36:07
variants that have several different spellings that have
36:09
several different meanings, that have different covers, right,
36:12
that are used in different parts of the world.
36:14
And yet the Quran is perfect. There's no such thing as a
36:17
different Quran, mind you. They'll try to use that very
36:19
same argument for the Bible, which has different translations
36:22
and no different versions. But they think in their mind
36:25
because they're too intellectually dishonest to
36:27
understand that there's a difference between a translation
36:29
and the difference between a version, which the Quran does
36:32
have. Why do you think they don't want
36:34
to talk about that? Why do you think not a single
36:36
one of them has had the bolas to call into my show?
36:40
Don't make me. Do you guys like I did that
36:42
socialist the other day on Brett stream?
36:43
We'll talk about that, we can talk about that.
36:45
Y'all want to talk about that? We can talk about it.
36:47
We'll talk about that. Here, Matt.
36:48
Weren't honest. Prove that.
36:50
You call it honest by personally attacking someone when I've been
36:54
nothing but respectful and just pointing out the facts.
36:57
No Sir, no Sir, you're a fucking.
37:00
You have not been respectful. The point that I made, if you'd
37:03
have listened, was why did you frame it as if the people who
37:06
fit your narrative were being honest and the others weren't?
37:11
Matt, we're talking about stats and actual facts.
37:14
You sound like you're getting very angry.
37:16
I don't hear the joy in you. All right, look.
37:20
Here, finally somebody with a Muslim name who said something
37:23
honest in the chat. You ready for this brother
37:24
Brett? There are more than 200 plus
37:27
different Arabic Qurans in the history of Islam.
37:30
Amen. Finally, somebody's being
37:31
honest. Somebody's being honest.
37:34
There are so many different Qurans that actually have
37:36
different versions with different meanings, with
37:38
different stories, and they cannot, they cannot do that for
37:41
the Bible. This is why they only want to
37:43
talk about the Bible because they know that they will get
37:45
slammed trying to defend their Quranic lies.
37:49
I love it, I love it, I love it. Thank you so much, man.
37:51
We're going to get back to Matt Dillahunty and his petulant
37:53
tantrum. I'm talking fucking disgusting
37:56
lying. I've muted you.
37:58
I'm going to raise this one more time.
38:00
Why would you, in talking about what happened on your show,
38:05
claim that the atheists who talked about their depression or
38:10
issues or suicidal tendencies were the only ones who were
38:14
honest? Why would you frame it muting
38:18
you now? You're I heard a beep noise.
38:21
Did you say you finally unmuted me?
38:25
Yeah, because I, like I said before, I've talked to these
38:28
people in private. It's a different story.
38:31
But some of them, whenever they get on their cameras, they
38:34
pretend as though everything's great and wonderful.
38:37
But the stats do not show that. But am I on like a different
38:42
planet? Because I'm pretty sure this is
38:44
a universal experience, that when you are around people in
38:47
public, you act one way, you put on a front, and then when you're
38:51
in private you are more inclined to divulge the personal things
38:56
you're going through. This is universal across the
38:58
human experience. This is not an atheism.
39:00
Thing Yeah, Brett just learning about social performance and
39:03
it's blowing his mind. Well, it's not just that.
39:05
It's according to stats. Although there are Christians
39:09
who have committed suicide more. Fucking time without explaining
39:12
where they're coming from or what.
39:14
Even when you said or the. Brett, can you hear the video
39:17
now on Video Ninja? The stats aren't.
39:21
The stats aren't. Atheists are more private.
39:24
Brother Brett, you still there? Lolo, Your mic is muted.
39:31
Brett. Yo.
39:32
Brett. OK, that makes sense.
39:34
But if you say you have a stat that you've been so far
39:36
unsighted, But whatever, that suggests that atheists and non
39:41
believers have a tendency to participate in suicidality or
39:44
depression or whatever else. We can engage.
39:47
With that, without it having a single thing to do.
39:50
And This is why I know, I know what your motivations are here.
39:54
You can you hear my voice though?
39:56
On the broadcast, I can and your voice.
39:58
OK, I just want to make sure. Yeah, no, because I changed it
40:00
to try to see if you could hear the video, but for some reason
40:02
Video Ninja is acting stupid, so we'll fix that at another time.
40:05
I know your motivations are to bring in this concept that you
40:09
will be more miserable after being a non believer and then
40:12
that should somehow suggest because there would be a God
40:15
bringing you some kind of joy if you were a believer.
40:17
We all know that that's the implicit fucking argument here.
40:20
And I have Matt brought up Mormonism.
40:22
I have something to share with you.
40:23
My days as a believer were my most miserable the the times I
40:28
was the most suicidal and attempted suicide was my days as
40:32
a believer because I so could not exist as the person I
40:37
actually am comfortably within a group of believers who believe
40:41
many things about my identity make me.
40:44
So I, so I want to stop it right there.
40:45
I want to stop it right there because that's easily one of the
40:48
most pathetic things that I've ever heard in my life.
40:51
And I want you guys to notice what he said there.
40:53
I, as a believer, wanted for to unalive myself, right?
40:59
I as a believer wanted to unalive myself because I could
41:03
not exist in the identity that I had, right?
41:07
I could not exist in the identity that I had because
41:12
essentially God does not tolerate the things that I
41:15
wanted to do. So instead of repenting and
41:20
saying, hey, you know what, I will submit to God and the
41:23
authority of God. I am going to now just stop
41:26
believing so that I can continue to March in pride parades and do
41:30
what I want to do because that's my God.
41:34
This is exactly what Jesus Christ meant when he said the
41:37
road to destruction is broad and many are on it and the road that
41:41
leads to my Father's Kingdom is extremely narrow and very few
41:44
are on it. So this clown thinks that
41:47
because he used to be a believer and then decided to stop being a
41:51
believer because his sin was more important to him, he was
41:55
just as guilty as the early Israelites worshipping the
41:58
golden calf because it was more important for them to have an
42:02
idol than it was for them to submit to the authority of
42:06
Yahweh. That is the difference, right?
42:09
So these atheist clowns who try to sit there and tell you guys
42:13
that I used to be a believer yet, well, guess what?
42:16
You used to be supposedly A believer and then you stopped.
42:18
The fact that you were able to be overpowered more by sin, by
42:22
the sin of whatever gluttony, addiction, homosexuality,
42:25
whatever it is, means that you never really were a believer.
42:28
I'm sorry, I, I, I am one of those people that I know that
42:31
once you're saved, you are actually saved because once you
42:33
are saved, there is nothing in the world that will actually
42:36
convince you that it is more desirable than actually being
42:39
consumed by the Holy Spirit. So this garbage about Oh well, I
42:42
wanted to underline myself when I was a believer, right?
42:44
No, you're basically a petulant little girl who doesn't like the
42:47
fact that God doesn't tolerate the crap that you want to do.
42:50
So you're like one of those little, little rebellious
42:53
idiotic teenagers that leaves their parents house because they
42:55
don't like the rules. Guess what?
42:57
Nobody gives a damn. Jesus said a long time ago that
42:59
people were going to do that. You, you guys act like you're
43:02
doing something new, right? Atheists act like they're doing
43:05
something revolutionary. You're not.
43:08
You're not. You're not, You're not Sorry,
43:10
sorry. Stop it.
43:11
Stop, Just stop. I'm continuing on with the video
43:14
now. Me essentially pathetic and
43:16
filthy and everything else. So it's if you want to engage on
43:21
the actual argument of even if this stat is true still would
43:25
not indicate whether or not God exists or not.
43:27
And by the way, we would then also get to talk about society's
43:31
part and all of that because as a non believer, I have been
43:35
ostracized more than as a queer person.
43:39
And we know that queer people often have a higher rate of
43:42
depression and suicidality because their communities turn
43:46
on them because they they experience from religious
43:50
fucking people that ostracization that that you're a
43:55
piece of shit. So let me answer the question
43:58
for you, Brett. The reason why people in
44:00
communities become depressed after they lose faith is
44:04
assholes like you. So it's my fault why the the
44:09
majority of atheists are suicidal depressed?
44:12
Oh my God. Specifically on everyone.
44:16
It sounds like victim virtue to me a little bit there.
44:20
You're blaming other people for your own issues sounds.
44:23
Like to you, I'm going to give you exactly, I'm going to give
44:25
you exactly one more chance to have an honest conversation
44:28
because I'm happy to tell you that yes, there are people who
44:31
are atheists who are suffering and some of them aren't going to
44:36
talk about it. And the reason is because there
44:38
are different social boundaries with which people are
44:40
comfortable with. And atheists, as a maligned
44:44
minority, we don't have the support networks installed in
44:48
place. We don't have the mountain of
44:50
privilege that religions have. We don't have any of that.
44:53
And so at this time of year when people are going to visit their
44:57
families, because that's what people do frequently around
44:59
Christmas, if you're the only atheist there and everybody else
45:03
is talking about Jesus this and church that and Jesus this and
45:06
church that, and talking about political views and things that
45:12
set these people aside in a different bucket.
45:14
Of course you're going to be. Hold on a second, Brett.
45:16
I want to address a comment that I just saw, which is probably
45:19
literally the most disingenuous thing I've ever seen in my life.
45:22
Duck says that Matt Dillahunty and I want you to address this
45:26
comment directly, OK, Brother Brett.
45:28
He says that Matt Dillahunty is a very nice guy and speaks very
45:32
kindly. If people come being honest and
45:35
not intending to say that their opinion is global, I'm going to
45:39
let you take that one. No, he doesn't.
45:42
He calls people mentally ill. He says that religious people
45:45
are delusional. He says that people have brain
45:47
damage. You believe in all that and I
45:50
heard not an atheist but a religious friend of mine
45:54
actually talked to him on that topic and he goes well if you're
45:58
mentally ill for being religious, what does that make
46:00
you mad since you claim to have been a minister at some point?
46:03
Which he never was. And he got the same treatment,
46:07
the whole FU blah blah blah. Yeah.
46:09
So I mean, it is what it is. Matt Dillahunty is not nice.
46:13
And Mr. Brother Maverick was absolutely correct.
46:17
Matt Dillahunty threw in threw God under the bus along with
46:21
religion because he wanted to proceed with his homosexuality.
46:25
Period. And to and to address your
46:27
second comment, Ducks, you said Matt doesn't start his streams
46:30
by saying all Muslims, all atheists, all homosexuals, as
46:32
this host does. Yeah.
46:33
See, the thing about it is, Doug, that is that is an appeal
46:36
to a fallacy right off the bat, because right off the bat, it is
46:39
my job to make sure that people, that I make disciples of all
46:43
nations. You know who said that?
46:45
Jesus Christ. So when you try to make these
46:47
insinuations that I, that Matt Dillahunty is, is more morally
46:51
correct than I am, you're welcome to your opinion.
46:53
But at the end of the day, I'm following the commands of Jesus
46:56
Christ. And nowhere, nowhere in
46:58
Scripture does it say that I am obligated to respect other
47:02
religions, religions. Actually, the Bible says quite
47:04
the opposite, that you shall not worship other idols, that you
47:06
shall not worship or participate in the traditions of Pagan
47:10
religions or anything like that. So I if you don't like it,
47:13
that's fine. But here at the end of the day,
47:15
you're talking about Matt Dillahunty and how much you love
47:17
him. But you're not on his stream,
47:18
you're on mine. You're constantly in my streams,
47:21
you're constantly in my chat. And I appreciate you because
47:25
you're sitting there and you're, and you're shooting my analytics
47:27
through the roof, but you're critical of what I'm doing.
47:29
But never once have you had the intestinal fortitude to type in
47:32
cross unit dot live forward slash call and come in and have
47:35
a real conversation about it. You've had plenty of Muslims who
47:37
I love speaking to, plenty of atheists who I love speaking to.
47:40
And we might not agree, but at least they had the intestinal
47:42
fortitude to go ahead and type in the, the, the link or, or tap
47:46
the hyperlink right there and, and YouTube live or type in
47:48
cross unit dot live forward slash call because I know that
47:50
the link is, is flattening YouTube shorts, but it's right
47:53
there. It's right there.
47:53
Look, I have it right there on both.
47:55
I have I have multiple platforms who are live on YouTube live.
47:58
We're live on YouTube Shorts live, we're live on TikTok.
48:00
We're live on trouble. We're live on Rumble.
48:02
We're live on any one of those platforms and never once duck
48:05
have you come in except try to make idiotic comments that
48:07
literally everybody just blows off right off the bat.
48:09
I don't know what you think you're doing, but at the end of
48:11
the day, here's the problem with you.
48:13
I think that in your subconscious, you know that
48:15
Jesus Christ is the truth, the way in the life.
48:17
I think that you know that Jesus is the only way to have it, and
48:21
it pisses you off because instead of actually believing
48:24
that you would rather just continue on to do what you're
48:26
doing. But at the end of the day, you
48:27
can't hide from the truth forever, my brother.
48:29
When you close your eyes for the last time, you will not be able
48:31
to escape the truth. At the end of the day, you will
48:34
not be able to do what it is that you think you can do.
48:37
I know you think you're smart, I know you think you're clever,
48:39
but you're not either one of those things.
48:41
Because if you think that you can hide from the Messiah, the
48:43
fact of the matter is I am more of a kind of person who leads
48:46
towards the role of a disciplinarian.
48:48
And if you think for one second that I'm going to let you come
48:50
in here talking nonsense about the Messiah and that it's going
48:53
to go unpunished, then you are sorely mistaken.
48:59
I know, I know that no matter how badly Matt Dillahunty looks
49:03
in this, a brainwashed cult member like Duck Out There is
49:06
going to go along with it no matter what.
49:09
Notice in my speech, I don't raise my voice at these men,
49:13
right? Yeah.
49:14
I don't even bring up homosexuality or the fact that
49:17
the guy admits he's a queer. I didn't even bring that up #2 I
49:21
didn't cuss anybody. I didn't call names ever.
49:25
I was in a relaxed voice. I can talk to you right now.
49:29
They just didn't like the fact that they have quadruple stats
49:32
globally, the highest suicide rate on the planet, and they
49:36
don't like the fact that substance abuse is their major
49:39
problem as well. But it makes sense because they
49:42
don't have a manual or a Bible or something that instructs them
49:46
to not defile their temple, right?
49:50
And you know what, Duck you said what did you say?
49:52
No, we talked about physics. And that was because I didn't
49:55
know your entire plan is to be a bully.
49:57
And now I know you're OK with bigoted beliefs as well because
50:00
of a dusty old book written by no one.
50:02
Well, if it was written by no one, then I don't understand how
50:04
we have it #1 But let's let's talk about that word that you
50:07
guys love to throw around all so loosely without actually knowing
50:10
what it is. A bigot is someone who is
50:12
intolerant towards people who hold different opinions,
50:14
beliefs, or lifestyles than their own, and especially in
50:18
areas like religion, race, politics, or culture.
50:20
To be clear, a bigot is not someone who just disagrees with
50:24
others. That's completely normal.
50:25
A bigot is someone who refuses to tolerate the existence of
50:28
differing views and often reacts with hatred or unfair treatment.
50:32
Now, here's the problem with you, Duck.
50:34
You think that because I'm a Christian, I am intolerant of
50:37
other people. I have many people that I know.
50:40
And as far as my colleagues, as far as my family, as far as my
50:42
friends who don't agree with me, I know people who are not
50:45
Christian. I know people who are atheist.
50:47
I have family members who are homosexual.
50:50
And we all love each other very much and have lots of great
50:52
conversations. And I don't make any one of
50:54
those people feel like I am intolerant of them.
50:57
So if you're going to use a word, at least know what it
50:58
means, right? Because you guys are the very
51:01
same people who use the word bigot will say, well, love is
51:03
love. Well, let me explain something
51:05
to you about love. Love in and of itself is not
51:08
just a chemical reaction in your brain.
51:09
It's not butterflies that you feel in your stomach.
51:11
Love is an action, right? And I have used this example so
51:15
many times on my stream and I will continue to use this
51:17
example. I love my son, I love my
51:20
daughters, I love my wife. If I see my son doing something
51:24
stupid, I am not going to sit there and say that's OK, I'm
51:28
gonna just let him keep doing it because I love him and I don't
51:30
want him to be mad at me. And I'm going to say something
51:33
very clearly and I'm even going to lower my voice so you guys
51:35
can hear clearly, so that I can enunciate clearly.
51:38
I don't give a damn who gets mad at me because I tell them that
51:43
what they're doing is wrong, especially if what I am telling
51:45
them is wrong has come from the Messiah, has come from the
51:48
Christ, has come from the sacrificial lamb.
51:50
If the man who said that marriage is between a man and a
51:53
woman is the man who said it, and then shed his blood so that
51:56
I can be readopted into the presence of the Father, and by
52:00
being consumed by the Holy Spirit, rest assured, you duck,
52:06
or anybody else, I could not quantify less how much I care
52:11
about what you say. I am going to go by what the man
52:14
said. I'm not going to go by what you
52:15
said. The Bible is backed by countless
52:18
instances of archaeology, historical documents, eyewitness
52:22
testimony, geology, and any number of things.
52:25
So this day, it's exactly why Muslims and atheists cannot
52:28
stand that there is so much that people want to say about the
52:31
Bible. And we have so much evidence
52:33
that buries you that you want to try to sidestep it, right?
52:36
So you can say whatever you want at the end of the day, duck.
52:38
But you can call me hateful. You can call me bigoted.
52:40
I don't give a damn. Because it's it, would I?
52:43
I regard your comments about that the same way that I regard
52:46
one of my children who get upset because I stopped them from
52:49
doing something dumb because I love them.
52:52
If I didn't love you, I wouldn't be here.
52:54
Do you understand how much easier it would be for me to
52:56
just be sitting on here and playing Gears of War or playing
52:59
Borderlands 2 and ignoring it and letting anybody do whatever
53:02
the hell they want and, and, and spend eternity where you are
53:05
going to be cast unto the darkness and where there is
53:07
weeping and gnashing of teeth? My Messiah said, go forth and
53:10
make disciples of the world. Go forth and tell the world
53:14
about me. So I'm doing it not because I
53:16
want to. My personality is not such that
53:19
I like people. I'm going to be very honest with
53:21
every single one of you. I don't like people.
53:23
I don't. If it was up to me, the only
53:25
people I would ever talk to are the people in my family, and I
53:27
would never speak to anybody ever again.
53:29
But that's not what Jesus wants me to do.
53:31
So that's not why I'm doing. That is not what I'm doing.
53:34
Sorry. So you can call me a bigot, you
53:35
can call me whatever you want, but at the end of the day, it's
53:38
just your little scapegoat. It's your little way of crying
53:40
because you don't like that I'm telling you the truth.
53:42
Now, we do have a guest. I think Nirv is here.
53:44
Nirv, can you hear me? Hello.
53:47
Hello. What's going on, my brother?
53:48
How you doing? Everything's fine.
53:50
What about you? Good man.
53:51
So what's going on today? Nothing much.
53:54
I just saw you on that. You were live, right?
53:57
Yeah. You're asking for people to come
53:59
up and there wasn't anyone coming up, so I decided to come.
54:01
Up. All right, what's up, man?
54:02
So what's your what is your contention?
54:04
The title for today. You already see it, right?
54:09
Yes. OK, So what?
54:10
Are you about just kind of thinking Quran called the show?
54:15
Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to defend it, right.
54:19
So please go ahead, yeah. Yeah.
54:21
So if you, if you have like any, any questions, I'll try to give
54:25
my opinion. OK.
54:26
I'm not an expert of course, but I'll I'll give my opinion.
54:30
OK so you want me to start off with basically why I believe in
54:34
knowing my heart that the Quran is not the word of God?
54:37
Yeah, OK. All right, So what I'm going to
54:39
do then is I'm going to open my debate briefs right away and I'm
54:43
going to go to the Quran right here.
54:46
So we'll open it up with PDF. Now the first thing guys, I'm
54:50
going to, what I'm going to do is I'm going to read a couple
54:53
lines near and then I will stop to have you address them because
54:56
I think that's fair. If you want me to stop, just
54:58
tell me stop to clarify something and I will clarify
55:00
something. Brother Mike, what's up, man?
55:02
You're in the chat. What's going on, brother?
55:05
Brother Mike, can you hear me? Don't think you can hear us.
55:10
Oh yeah. I I I muted I muted my mic and I
55:12
was trying to look in the vertical stream Brother Muslim
55:18
Raisin head. OK, He said he got blocked
55:22
blocked from there. I don't know.
55:23
I went up on the YouTube shorts live and I and I went through
55:29
and I looked and it didn't say, you know, hide user or anything
55:32
like that. It just it still said the same
55:33
thing, but it didn't say unhide or anything like that.
55:35
But he basically made-up a new name and asked me if I could go
55:39
to, you know, somehow unblock him if it shows on your side.
55:44
But he said that he got blocked and he had to make up a new name
55:47
to come back into the show. I haven't blocked anyone.
55:49
I know if you didn't, I know. If you say you didn't, I know
55:51
you didn't. So I'm not sure what to say.
55:54
Yeah. You guys wouldn't happen to have
55:56
a blacklist on your YouTube thing, would you?
55:59
No, I haven't blocked. I mean the guy who I'm talking
56:01
about would had to have been blocked during this stream
56:03
because he was talking earlier in the stream.
56:06
Yeah, and and he and he was talking earlier and you called
56:09
him out, right? He is.
56:11
His name has Muslim in it, but he is born again Christian.
56:15
Oh, you know what? You know what?
56:17
What is a is it was it Muslim Raisin head or whatever?
56:21
Yes. OK, so you know what?
56:23
Sometimes if YouTube catches or they think that you're putting
56:26
like a racial slur in your name, they'll they'll they'll boot you
56:29
because it wasn't me. OK.
56:31
Yeah. So it might have been something
56:33
that somebody tapped on. Or if somebody reported him,
56:36
they might they might have just pulled him out.
56:37
I have no idea because it wasn't me.
56:39
And you guys know I'll be the first one to tell you if I had
56:40
to block somebody. Yeah, that is true.
56:43
YouTube has an AI that will get rid of this thing that it
56:46
considers offensive. Yeah, because this thing said
56:48
Muslim Raisin head or something like that, and so that's
56:50
probably why he got booted. Yeah, and, and he basically
56:55
commented to me saying like, hey, I got blocked or whatever
56:58
on it. Can you build talk to brother
57:00
Maverick? And I told him I'd call you up
57:01
and let you know what was going on in this chat.
57:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, it wasn't me.
57:05
That I'm doing it. Yeah, it wasn't me.
57:07
Yeah, but I. See that?
57:08
I'm not basically lying about it.
57:09
I'm calling and talking to you so he understands.
57:11
What's going on in that? I have no idea.
57:14
Yeah, no, it wasn't us. So I don't know, brother, maybe
57:16
maybe just be more careful with your naming of your profile,
57:19
because it definitely wasn't me. And brother Mike is the only
57:21
other one here who would actually be blocking people.
57:24
Yeah. And he didn't say anything dumb,
57:26
so it wouldn't have been that like like any of my family
57:28
monitoring in the background. I all my family are mods but
57:31
they won't they wouldn't have banned him because he's been
57:35
he's been basically telling the truth.
57:36
So I don't see what he would have gotten bad for.
57:38
And he and. And he's, he's been very
57:39
respectful and very, very great in the in the chat.
57:43
And I basically kind of called you out by like, no, no, he's
57:46
not part of like the actual Muslims.
57:49
I know he has Muslims in his name, but he is a born and grand
57:51
Christian. And I wanted to say like, hey,
57:53
brother, chill out on brother Raisin.
57:55
He's a good dude. No, yeah, I saw what he was
57:57
saying. It wasn't me.
57:58
No, it wasn't me. I'm listen.
57:59
And before God wasn't me, guys, I didn't ban anybody.
58:01
I haven't banned anybody today and usually, and guys, I can't
58:04
even think of the last time I actually banned somebody because
58:06
usually Mike is here and he's very good at, at, at sifting
58:10
through all the nonsense because I'm so busy with conversation
58:12
that whoever is saying something ridiculous will get banned and
58:15
it won't be me. I haven't banned anybody in
58:17
months. So definitely wasn't me.
58:19
I'm sorry about that, brother. But yeah, man, I, I, I'm 90%
58:22
sure it was your name. That's the only thing it could
58:24
have been, honestly. So, so he yeah, Brother Raising
58:29
basically changed his name so he's now Brother Gabs.
58:33
Yeah, all good man. Yeah, he's all good.
58:35
He's welcome here for sure. No, but I didn't boot him.
58:37
So yeah, some probably just look into or tell him to check his
58:40
e-mail also, because if he gets banned by YouTube, they'll tell
58:43
him why they will e-mail him and say hey, they'll whatever e-mail
58:47
he used for that account, tell him that yeah, he he would have
58:50
definitely, definitely gotten an e-mail from them.
58:52
If not, tell him to keep checking because they'll let him
58:54
know why he got banned. OK, Yeah, All right.
58:57
Well, he's still. Chatting him right?
58:58
Good. Seeing you too, brother Brett.
59:00
But yeah, he's still in chess, so he he could be able to hear
59:02
hear you. So yeah, for sure he'll most
59:05
likely check his e-mail to be able to see why his name account
59:09
got banned and why he had to get a new one.
59:11
So I'll let you guys add it. Thanks bro, appreciate it.
59:14
So back to brother Nirv. Here's here's the reality of it,
59:18
my brother. The myth versus the reality.
59:21
The claim of perfect preservation.
59:22
Because I know that's a huge thing.
59:24
You are a gentleman from Morocco, correct?
59:27
You are a Muslim man from Morocco.
59:28
I remember you. I like you a lot.
59:30
So the it's called this, this document is called myth versus
59:33
reality. And my my documents here is
59:35
titled how the Quran was corrupted hadiths and historical
59:40
sources. OK, so point #1 says myth versus
59:43
reality. The claim of perfect
59:44
preservation, the Islamic claim is that the Quran, the Quran is
59:49
the unchanged word of Allah. The reality is that even early
59:53
Islamic sources contradict this claim.
59:56
So it's not like we're saying that these were the early church
59:58
fathers or or early atheistic sources or non believers or
1:00:02
anybody else. These were actually sources from
1:00:04
within the Islamic community itself.
1:00:06
Right point #2 talks about Khalifa Utman burning of the
1:00:10
Qurans. Sahih al Bukhari 4987 says
1:00:14
Uthman ordered all non standardized copies to be burned
1:00:18
after creating a standard version.
1:00:21
Now why did Khalif Utman do this?
1:00:23
Well in Sahih Muslim 818 a as an Adam, it says that conflicting
1:00:28
recitation caused disputes among Muslim people.
1:00:32
Muhammad himself said that the Quran came in seven aruf in
1:00:37
seven modes right? But the uth but Uthman
1:00:41
standardization removed the aruf Ivana B Dawoods Khatib al Mosif.
1:00:47
Uthman enforced the Kirash dialect and destroyed the
1:00:50
others, which was censorship and not preservation right?
1:00:55
So I'll stop there because that was already like 4 points.
1:00:58
Are you able to address any of that AM?
1:01:02
I able to address whether the Quran has been perfectly
1:01:06
preserved, right? Yes.
1:01:07
Oh yeah. So if if we go back to its
1:01:10
origins, right, Saudi Arabia was mainly like an oral, you know,
1:01:14
they had an oral tradition for mostly everything, right?
1:01:16
So when the Quran was first revealed, it was just oral,
1:01:20
right? And they would they would, you
1:01:22
know, put it into writing with whatever they have, right?
1:01:25
So skin, bones, parchments and and and so forth, right.
1:01:29
So they, they did have like written Qurans, right?
1:01:34
But some of them were still different on the recitation,
1:01:37
right? Because while you might use a
1:01:39
different dialect, right, the meaning is still there.
1:01:43
So you might find textual variants and diacritical
1:01:47
variants, but the same message is still there.
1:01:54
So, OK, so, So what are you? So are you essentially conceding
1:02:01
that there are different currents?
1:02:03
Yeah, I I wouldn't call it perfectly preserved.
1:02:06
OK, because you do understand that one of the main
1:02:10
foundational claims of Islam is that there's only one Quran and
1:02:14
it is perfectly preserved. That's what you're saying,
1:02:16
right? OK, so here's the thing.
1:02:18
The the Quran was perfectly preserved because it was oral.
1:02:22
Now here's the problem with that.
1:02:23
Or or orality is not a safeguard against corruption, right?
1:02:28
It's actually a huge risk factor and oral transmission is not
1:02:32
infallible and even Islamic tradition admits that entire
1:02:36
verses were forgotten or completely eliminated.
1:02:39
Sahi Muslim book 5 Hadith 2286 records Muhammad saying and
1:02:44
quote. I used to recite a Sarah equal
1:02:47
in length to Sarat but I have forgotten it again.
1:02:52
I'm going to say that guys because it is the guys that you
1:02:54
guys look at as a prophet who said this.
1:02:57
So I want you guys to listen to this and understand the
1:02:59
implications of what I am saying.
1:03:01
I used to recite a Surah equal in length to Surat Bora ah, but
1:03:07
I have forgotten it. Even more direct is Sahi al
1:03:12
Bukhari 5039, which shows Muhammad allowed seven different
1:03:16
modes or a roof of recitation. That immediately opens the door
1:03:21
to variant versions. And not just pronunciation, but
1:03:25
word choices and even verse structure in it in and of
1:03:28
itself. Now you also said that written
1:03:30
versions were the same in message but different in
1:03:34
dialect, which unfortunately I'm sure near is what you've been
1:03:37
taught. But what they're teaching you is
1:03:39
extremely misleading and I'm going to explain why.
1:03:43
Dialects didn't just mean accents, they included word
1:03:47
substitutions, grammatical shifts, and even missing or
1:03:50
added phrases. The Sanaa manuscript from Yemen
1:03:54
that was discovered in the 1970s, which is one of the
1:03:56
oldest Qurans ever found, contains corrections,
1:04:00
insertions, and textual differences that are not
1:04:02
explained away by simple dialect I.
1:04:06
Also, Uthman's standardization of the 7th century proves that
1:04:10
there was a massive variation. If everything was the same, then
1:04:13
why did Khalif Utman have to burn competing courtesies?
1:04:17
And you can consult sources Al Bukhari 4987 and Islamic
1:04:21
historical sources like Al Tabari.
1:04:23
And let's not pretend guys. OK for this is for everybody to
1:04:27
understand. We cannot pretend that this
1:04:29
wasn't controversial. Abin Masood, who was a top
1:04:32
reciter and personally trained by Muhammad himself, refused to
1:04:36
accept Khalif Utman's version and rejected several surahs that
1:04:40
were not Quranic. And if you want to reference
1:04:43
that, guys, you can look at, you can look at what is called Iban
1:04:46
ABI dwads, Akitab al Mashif that exactly like that.
1:04:50
As a matter of fact, here I will go ahead because I have it here
1:04:53
in my debate brief. I'm going to copy that and I'm
1:04:55
going to put it in the chat so that you guys can don't take my
1:04:59
word for it, copy and paste that into Google and research that
1:05:02
for yourself. Now my brother Nirv who I love
1:05:05
very much, who is a very very intelligent man and is one of
1:05:09
the only ones I respect who actually comes here and is able
1:05:11
to to try to defend his beliefs. He also said that the message is
1:05:15
still the same. But here's the thing about that.
1:05:18
When you say that, it reminds me of the same excuse that Mormons
1:05:22
use when the Book of Mormon gets edited.
1:05:24
If the Quran is unchanged, then there should be 0 variance
1:05:28
period. It's not unlike when when
1:05:30
Muslims try to attack the Bible and say that the Bible has
1:05:33
different versions, but the Bible does not have different
1:05:35
versions. The Bible has different
1:05:36
translations. When you actually translate from
1:05:39
language to language to language, it still says the same
1:05:41
thing regardless. And it's been translated to
1:05:43
thousands of languages and still says the same thing.
1:05:46
The message is still exactly the same right?
1:05:49
There should be 0 variants of the Quran but that's completely
1:05:52
false and I have shown that on the stream many times.
1:05:54
We know from Islamic scholars like Arthur Jeffrey and modern
1:05:58
works like the 10 kitaat of the Quran that there are hundreds of
1:06:02
differences across the kitaat. Some change the meaning for
1:06:05
example. And Surat 2184 has both a ransom
1:06:10
feeding a poor person and a ransom feeding poor people.
1:06:14
Surat chapter 21 verse 4 varies between he said and I said.
1:06:18
Now if it's supposed to be God speaking then why does one
1:06:21
referring to third person and talking about someone?
1:06:23
And why is 1 speaking in the first person talking about
1:06:25
themself? It makes absolutely no sense.
1:06:28
So the bottom line to that guys is that no matter how you slice
1:06:30
it right, oral tradition, dialectal excuse or recitation
1:06:35
spin, the evidence shows corruption.
1:06:37
Give me one second guys. Because my TikTok is saying that
1:06:39
I'm inactive for some reason I don't understand.
1:06:42
That was actually happening to another Christian stream I saw.
1:06:44
The evidence of the Quran shows corruption regardless guys, it
1:06:48
shows variation and it shows revision since its conception,
1:06:51
since the entire scandal happened between Khalif Utman
1:06:54
and his colleagues. Now here's the thing about that.
1:06:57
If Christians had to burn gospels and eliminate competing
1:07:00
versions, Muslims would call it a fabrication all day long, and
1:07:03
rightfully so. And that's exactly what Uthman
1:07:06
did with the Quran. So unfortunately, my brother,
1:07:09
the Quran is not perfectly preserved.
1:07:11
It was edited, it was standardized and policied into a
1:07:15
single version centuries after the Prophet.
1:07:18
That is not divine preservation. That is man made revisionism.
1:07:22
And I think that it's very sad that so many people are not
1:07:27
aware of this. So you go ahead.
1:07:29
Oh, I think because we've already spoken on a couple of,
1:07:32
you know, I don't really follow. Hadith, right?
1:07:35
Yes, that's fine. Yeah, I'm, I'm a Quran only
1:07:37
Muslim, right? And from the Quran, the only
1:07:40
thing I can really pull away from it that shows me that the
1:07:43
Quran was written like perfectly preserved.
1:07:47
You can't really get it from the Quran only, right, unless you
1:07:50
say, oh, it's perfectly preserved because the Quran says
1:07:52
so that's just you're just going to go in circles, right?
1:07:55
So the only thing that really shows me that the Quran was that
1:07:58
he's written in the same dialect as the the prophets, right, Is
1:08:03
in a verse, I think Surat al Baqar, right?
1:08:05
There's something written as a salawat and a zecawat.
1:08:09
So it's simpler, right? But it, it's read or recited in
1:08:14
singular, right? Yeah.
1:08:18
So there's a variation in, in, in, in, in the, in the text.
1:08:23
And you know, it varies from from how you recite it.
1:08:26
So that's the only thing I can really gather from the Quran
1:08:28
that showed that it was at least compiled in, in a, in the same
1:08:33
dialect as the prophets, right? For me to be able to hold that
1:08:37
the Quran is perfectly preserved if I also deny Hadid and it's
1:08:41
not possible for me. So I have to concede on this
1:08:43
point completely. OK, yeah.
1:08:46
And you know what, the one thing I do want to tell you near is
1:08:48
that I find it interesting that you don't believe in what the
1:08:53
hadith talk about and and you've admitted that you're a Quran
1:08:57
only Muslim. And it's not, it's make no
1:08:59
mistake, this is not the first time I've heard this.
1:09:01
I have heard a handful of Muslims say that they are Quran
1:09:04
only Muslims. But so you reject the hadiths,
1:09:07
right? You don't think that anything
1:09:08
they're saying is true? Or is is that your position?
1:09:11
No, there's a possibility for some hadith to be correct,
1:09:15
right? There may have been sayings of
1:09:17
the prophets in there, like authentic sayings, but I don't
1:09:21
trust their rating system right when they go from.
1:09:25
Strong. To variation, weak narration and
1:09:28
then authentic, right? I don't believe in that, right?
1:09:31
Because there's various authentic that go directly
1:09:35
against the. Koran, correct, Which only goes
1:09:38
to show the contradictions of the Koran claiming to be the
1:09:42
word of God. Which is exactly why we say, we
1:09:44
say because you do understand that you're top Muslim
1:09:48
apologists use the hadith to try to prove the points that they
1:09:52
try to conveniently prove selectively, right?
1:09:56
So I, I find it interesting, I find it interesting that there
1:10:01
are Muslims who are hadith who, who love the hadith and then
1:10:05
that there are Muslims who only look at the Quran.
1:10:07
Because as far as I know, the historical sources that document
1:10:12
how the Quran was compiled, collected and canonized are the
1:10:15
Hadith, right? But then Muslims will turn
1:10:18
around and try to argue for the Quran's perfect preservation
1:10:20
using we don't know what then. Because if you're trying to say
1:10:24
that it, it was perfect preservation using linguistic
1:10:27
quirks in the same way that the Quran doesn't admit that they
1:10:30
provide external verification. So the, the, the hadees are
1:10:34
essentially what the Muslim apologists have said are the
1:10:38
external verification for the Quran, right?
1:10:41
So it starts turning into circular reasoning, right?
1:10:44
But then that brings me to my second point, because if you
1:10:47
cite grammatical nuance, like like what you say Al Sawat, the
1:10:51
plural written and resetted, right?
1:10:54
OK, so, but unfortunately, my brother, that doesn't prove
1:10:57
preservation. It proves variation.
1:11:00
And that's the that is precisely the problem that Muslim, the
1:11:04
Muslim world tries to deny, right?
1:11:06
The example isn't an argument for preservation.
1:11:08
It's an example of how oral transmission masks written
1:11:12
inconsistencies. As a matter of fact, that very
1:11:15
point is why the aruf in the Kita art traditions even exist,
1:11:19
to try to explain away variant readings, accents and dialogical
1:11:22
and, I'm sorry, dialectical shifts after Muhammad died.
1:11:26
So the argument kind of boomerang backs on itself.
1:11:29
Do you understand what I'm saying now?
1:11:31
Also, without the hadith or early Islamic histories like
1:11:35
Sahih Al Bukhari book 61 or Ivana be Dawood, there is no
1:11:39
record of who compiled the Quran.
1:11:41
That was actually what the hadith were for.
1:11:43
And it doesn't it doesn't know who who compiled the Quran.
1:11:46
It doesn't talk about what materials were used, which
1:11:49
companions disagreed or which verses were forgotten, which
1:11:52
ones were lost, which ones are abrogated.
1:11:55
Khalif Utman burning the other codices, right.
1:11:58
All of these things were included included in the hadees.
1:12:00
I don't my, I, I actually am grateful that they included
1:12:03
Khalis burning of the, the other manuscripts in the hadees
1:12:06
because it was a very honest thing to do.
1:12:09
But it doesn't, it does not help the claim of perfect
1:12:12
preservation, right? But on top of that, guys, and
1:12:16
this is, this is I think probably the most important part
1:12:19
of, of, of the argument of, of, of Islam versus Christianity.
1:12:25
If you're only proof that the Quran is preserved is that the
1:12:28
Quran says so, then it's not evidence.
1:12:30
That's circular phytism, right? That would be like me saying the
1:12:34
Bible is true because the Bible says it's true.
1:12:36
But unlike the Quran, the Bible actually invites external
1:12:38
verification, right? It has historical, it has
1:12:41
archaeological and manuscript evidence.
1:12:44
The Quran, sorry guys, has none of those things.
1:12:47
So you, I, I know that you pointed to us to a Salawat as,
1:12:50
as it was like a linguistic fingerprint of authenticity, But
1:12:54
that's kind of like arguing that a forged painting is real
1:12:56
because the brush strokes look confident, right?
1:12:59
And that's not that, that that doesn't have any actual
1:13:01
evidentiary value behind the argument.
1:13:03
It's just basically saying, you know, that the, the Quran is
1:13:06
true because we've always been taught that it's true.
1:13:08
Well, no, as as history goes on and and as historical documents
1:13:11
are discovered more, do you, you do know that here I, I ask you
1:13:16
this question Neerf there are still surviving manuscripts
1:13:19
because when Khalif Utman sent his assistants throughout the
1:13:23
regions to collect the additional Quranic manuscripts
1:13:27
that did not agree with what he thought should be in the
1:13:31
narrative of the Quran, he had his cronies go around and
1:13:35
collect those manuscripts. Now when they did that, you do
1:13:38
understand that human nature meant that there were people who
1:13:41
didn't believe in what Khalif Utman was doing, right?
1:13:43
And when right and they hid their, they hid them, which is
1:13:47
why until this day there were Quranic, there were variations
1:13:52
of manuscripts that survived and they still have them till today.
1:13:56
Now, I know that Muslim apologists and imams all over
1:14:00
the world cannot stand this because it is something that
1:14:03
they have tried to and failed to explain away for centuries.
1:14:07
But at the end of the day, it's like I said in one of my
1:14:09
favorite movies, you can't hide from the truth, right?
1:14:12
And my question to you is, how do you explain those Quranic
1:14:16
variations that Khalif Utman could not get his hands on and
1:14:20
that show that the Quran, since its conception was never the
1:14:24
word of God and it was never perfectly preserved?
1:14:26
I that's the question that I that I want you to try to
1:14:29
answer. So you want me to answer?
1:14:33
OK, so I will answer this and I'm going to have a question for
1:14:38
you afterwards. Sure.
1:14:39
So how do I explain the differences in the variations
1:14:42
and how they pronounce things and how they write certain
1:14:46
things? Right?
1:14:50
Well, the only thing I could really say is that humans are
1:14:52
fallible, right? So you can't have perfect
1:14:56
preservation if you only have an oral tradition, right?
1:15:02
You only learn your Quran orally, right?
1:15:04
The only thing I can say is that despite, as far as I know,
1:15:08
despite those variations, the message is still the same.
1:15:11
It doesn't take away anything from it, right?
1:15:14
For example, I think the most common one and the one that I
1:15:17
have that I have to deal with because I'm Morocco, right?
1:15:20
Moroccan. So we have the Maliki form,
1:15:22
right? So there's Maliki Omidin, right?
1:15:25
And then in Saudi Arabia they say Malik, so our says owner and
1:15:30
their says King of the day of judgement, right?
1:15:32
OK. Now do.
1:15:35
These contradict. Oh, I'm sorry, are you asking
1:15:40
me? Yeah.
1:15:41
Do they contradict each other? Well, yeah, more than likely.
1:15:44
I mean, you, I, I'm, I'm, I'm the first person to say that.
1:15:47
Like when people try to say things like that about the
1:15:49
Bible, the first thing I do is I look at the context right now,
1:15:53
if you're looking now, if you want me to answer the question
1:15:55
about the word only, then a king is very different than an owner
1:16:01
because a king is a very specific thing.
1:16:04
It is a monarch, right? It is a ruler of a certain, of a
1:16:06
certain area, an owner. You can be an owner of many
1:16:10
different things and still not be the ruler of anything.
1:16:14
You can not be. You can be an I can own a house.
1:16:17
Does that mean that I'm the king?
1:16:20
You're the king of your house. One could say that.
1:16:22
Well, you, yeah, one could say that, but it's not.
1:16:24
But it's not. But you're being dishonest in
1:16:27
meaning, right? Because now you're trying to use
1:16:30
semantics. You're trying to use, you're
1:16:32
trying to say, OK, well, you're the owner of the house.
1:16:34
Yeah, I can call myself the king.
1:16:35
But strictly speaking, through the law, does that mean that I'm
1:16:39
a king? No, I'm not a king.
1:16:40
I might be a king in my own head.
1:16:42
But if you are a king, literally, you are a king,
1:16:44
literally. But being a king does not
1:16:46
necessarily make you an owner. Being an owner definitely
1:16:48
doesn't make you a king, right? If you go back to early England,
1:16:52
right, or the early United Kingdom, there was only a
1:16:55
handful of kings, but there were a lot of people who own land.
1:16:58
So wars ever were every single one of those owners of land
1:17:01
kings? No.
1:17:04
All right, well, there you go. So being an owner, being a king
1:17:07
doesn't make you an owner, and being an owner definitely
1:17:08
doesn't make you a king. You can, you can become a king
1:17:11
of a land and not own a damn thing, right?
1:17:16
And, and it is a good question, but on the surface, it's, it's
1:17:19
here's the thing. It sounds like a minor
1:17:21
difference, right? But when we dig a little bit
1:17:23
deeper, the entire perfect preservation claim starts to
1:17:26
fall apart. And I'm glad that you use that.
1:17:28
So let's talk about that. Let's start with the example you
1:17:30
gave. You said Maliki Yamid Dean,
1:17:33
right, owner of the day of judgement versus Malik Yamid
1:17:37
Dean, which is the king of the day of judgement.
1:17:39
Now owner and king are not the same.
1:17:41
A king has authority and rule and owner has possession.
1:17:46
And Arabic Malik and Malik are different words with different
1:17:50
roots. And if you and and the reason
1:17:52
they sound the same guys, but I'm going to paste them in the
1:17:54
link so that you guys could see what I'm saying.
1:17:56
Because as you see in the Arabic, they're different words,
1:17:58
right? There are different words with
1:18:01
different roots and different meanings.
1:18:02
This isn't just an accent or a dialect issue.
1:18:05
It is a textual variant and it affects theology.
1:18:08
And I'm sorry nerve, I think that you use this example being
1:18:11
taught to use this example and you didn't realize that this has
1:18:14
been pulled apart pretty hard. So you got to ask yourself if
1:18:16
Allah is claiming perfect preservation of every single
1:18:18
letter of the Koran pursued off chapter 15 verse 9.
1:18:22
He said in quote. Indeed, we sent down the
1:18:25
reminder, and indeed we will be its guardian and quote.
1:18:29
Then how do you justify the existence of different canonical
1:18:33
readings of the kitaat where the actual words differ?
1:18:36
And these are not isolated guys. There are hundreds of documented
1:18:40
differences between the Hoffs, the Wash, the Kaloon, the
1:18:43
Alduri, and the other Kitaat, some of which change meaning
1:18:47
entirely. And here's a few examples to go
1:18:49
way beyond pronunciation and the Hoffs.
1:18:52
There's a word that means a ransom of feeding of a poor
1:18:56
person, right in the AL SU C at that same word means a ransom of
1:19:00
feeding poor people. Right now, I can't pronounce
1:19:02
those words, but I am going to go ahead and I'm going to paste
1:19:05
those into the chat so you guys can see again.
1:19:09
Right, right. Sudah 21 four now Hoffs and the
1:19:15
Hoff says he said and the wars says say.
1:19:17
So I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to paste that.
1:19:19
Everything that I'm saying I'm going to go ahead and paste in
1:19:23
the chat for you guys. OK, so here there we go.
1:19:26
I pasted that in the chat in Sudah chapter 3 verse 146 and
1:19:30
the Hoff says it says fought and the wars just says was killed,
1:19:34
right? We're going to paste that in the
1:19:35
chat because I don't want you guys to think that I'm just
1:19:37
saying it for the sake of saying it or just sake of being right.
1:19:40
I want you guys to see it further you guys selves, because
1:19:43
it's not pronunciation that's warfare versus martyrdom, right?
1:19:46
Did you fight or did you lose your life?
1:19:48
And, and those are two very, very, very different things.
1:19:50
Now, I have heard people that have heard Muslims try to say,
1:19:53
well, they fought to the death. No, my brother, you don't get to
1:19:55
just skate that easily because it doesn't say that.
1:19:58
It doesn't say fought to the death and the hafsa says, but
1:20:01
period. It never says fault to the
1:20:03
death. Now, if the Hafsa fought to the
1:20:04
death and the war said that they were killed, that's different.
1:20:08
Because you could kind of point those two towards one another,
1:20:11
but there's a very big difference between just fighting
1:20:13
and losing your life, right? So the claim that they're just
1:20:16
dialects or that the message stays the same ignores how
1:20:19
Islamic doctrine, legal rulings, and recitation rules are even
1:20:23
affected. Even your example, king versus
1:20:26
owner, would spark entire theological debates over
1:20:28
authority, esthetology, and divine sovereignty right now.
1:20:33
Finally, the elephants in the room.
1:20:34
How can the Quran be perfectly preserved?
1:20:39
How can the Quran be perfectly preserved if you yourself admit
1:20:42
that it came from an oral tradition that humans are
1:20:44
fallible and that there are variations in the written forms?
1:20:48
That is literally the exact opposite of preservation.
1:20:50
Now, in contrast, Christianity doesn't claim perfect dictation.
1:20:54
We claim reliable preservation through a vast manuscript
1:20:57
tradition that allows us to reconstruct the originals
1:21:00
through textual criticism. And no Christian doctrine hinges
1:21:03
on a single manuscript variant, not a one.
1:21:05
We have 10s of thousands. Islam does claim perfect
1:21:09
preservation and if even one verse has multiple readings that
1:21:13
changes the meaning and the whole claim is dead in the
1:21:16
water. Does that make sense?
1:21:17
Yeah. So you can you can rebuttal.
1:21:20
I'm happy to listen to your rebuttal.
1:21:22
Yeah, So earlier we said that I like I've been, I've been told
1:21:26
to say that the Maliki one, right?
1:21:29
I mean, I don't really hang out in mosques or really talk to
1:21:33
other Muslim apologists, right? Because most of them just
1:21:36
consider me a heretic, right? As soon as you abandon hadith,
1:21:40
right, you're automatically a heretic from Muslims, right?
1:21:45
So I'm not a person that holds to the to the concept of perfect
1:21:50
preservation, right? OK, I don't see anything that
1:21:54
would really show that right? In the Quran says that we will
1:21:56
preserve it, but not perfectly, right?
1:21:59
It could allow for some for, for, you know, for some
1:22:01
variance, right? As long as it doesn't take away
1:22:04
from the core message of the Quran is what I believe, right?
1:22:07
And that's just my opinion. OK, so now you have, so you have
1:22:11
devolved from what the core Islamic belief about the about
1:22:16
the Quran is to basically what is the subjective opinion of
1:22:21
brother near. And yeah, I, I would honestly
1:22:24
say brother, near that after having said that hardcore
1:22:29
Muslims believe that the Quran exists and is the word of God
1:22:32
because it has been perfectly preserved.
1:22:34
They believe that the Quran is the word of God and they believe
1:22:36
that the Bible has been corrupted, to say nothing of the
1:22:39
fact that they can prove any of these things historically, the
1:22:42
history and the evidence and the archaeology is very unforgiving
1:22:48
towards the Quranic claim of perfect preservation or not.
1:22:52
Because here's the thing, brother, if, if everybody in
1:22:55
Islam was as honest as you are, then it would be a very
1:23:01
different conversation. But here's the fact of the
1:23:04
matter that you're saying that you don't believe in the hadith.
1:23:06
You, you already are, are varying and straying very, very
1:23:10
far away from what typical Islamic claims are right.
1:23:15
And at the end of the day, it makes me wonder how much you
1:23:20
actually believe that the Quran is the word of God, because it
1:23:24
doesn't really sound like you do.
1:23:26
It sounds like you've been raised in that environment.
1:23:29
You are probably a native of Morocco, if I'm not mistaken,
1:23:33
which is a very Muslim heavy nation.
1:23:37
And you believe that because you were kind of taught that you
1:23:41
have to, right? But I can tell you this from
1:23:44
having spoken to you on and off throughout the past couple of
1:23:47
months, right? I, this is episode #30 of
1:23:50
busting up the truth of atheism and, and, and, and Islam.
1:23:54
And I can tell you that in 30 episodes and and over 60 some
1:23:58
odd streams, I've not had a single man or woman come in here
1:24:02
and provide me a single shred of historical or archaeological
1:24:07
evidence that can back up what they say about the Injeel, about
1:24:12
Bible corruption, about early church traditions, about the
1:24:15
Quran. Now, I know that me saying that
1:24:19
is anecdotal. I know that it is subjective to
1:24:21
me, but it is not only subjective to me, it is
1:24:23
subjective. It is it is actually becoming
1:24:26
more and more objective because as we see Muslims like to say
1:24:31
things like Christianity is die and isn't that.
1:24:33
But what are you seeing more than ever on YouTube and on
1:24:35
rumble and on TikTok? You're seeing more Christian
1:24:38
ministry than ever before. You are seeing atheists and and
1:24:42
Muslim apologists getting stomped on a regular basis.
1:24:46
Why? Because the truth doesn't allow
1:24:50
anyone to actually hide, right? The Internet is the worst thing
1:24:54
to ever happen to Muslims who want to continue to deny the
1:24:59
Bible as the word of God and continue to perpetuate the Quran
1:25:02
as the word of God. Because all we got to do is look
1:25:04
back. All we got to do is type a few
1:25:06
keystrokes on a keyboard and say, oh, wait a second, why do
1:25:11
atheists attack Christianity? Why don't they attack Islam like
1:25:14
this now? I'm not.
1:25:15
That's not to say that there are not atheists and Muslims who
1:25:19
don't get into debates. I have seen a handful.
1:25:21
They are very interesting. Interesting to say the least.
1:25:25
Because to me, when you have two people who are both standing for
1:25:27
lies, I, I, I find it nothing short of entertaining.
1:25:31
But at the end of the day, you look at Muhammad that you look
1:25:34
at as a prophet and then you look at Jesus Christ.
1:25:37
And I just don't understand how now or any other time in history
1:25:42
could you look at the actions of a person like Muhammad?
1:25:44
Now that's again, I'm going to back up, right?
1:25:46
Because all of the prophets before Jesus Christ, we're not
1:25:50
perfect, right? They were, they were all
1:25:53
sinners. But we're talking about what you
1:25:56
guys look at as a prophet of Jesus Christ.
1:25:58
We're going to talk about Jesus Christ because I'm not talking
1:25:59
about the Old Testament prophets before a human being who was on
1:26:03
earth did not have the ability to be perfect.
1:26:05
I'm talking about my Messiah. David is not my Messiah.
1:26:08
Moses is not my Messiah. Abraham is not my Messiah, nor
1:26:11
is Noah. We are talking about the man,
1:26:14
the man, the one that I cannot wait to throw myself and hug
1:26:18
him. I'm, I'm glad I have all
1:26:20
eternity because I'm telling you right now, that's how long it's
1:26:22
going to take for me to be finished hugging Jesus Christ.
1:26:25
Now you have Jesus Christ and you have Muhammad Jesus Christ
1:26:29
who stood in front of crowds of hostile people and said, if any
1:26:33
one of you can convict me of sin, please speak forth.
1:26:36
And even his enemies could not say, hey, you know what you did
1:26:40
XYZ man, I saw you yesterday. Not a single one.
1:26:43
Now contrast that with Muhammad, whose sins I won't even name
1:26:46
because you're a smart guy. You know what Muhammad did?
1:26:48
Brother Brett knows what Muhammad did.
1:26:50
Everybody in the chat knows what Muhammad did.
1:26:52
Why would God send forth his Son, his only begotten Son, to
1:26:56
shed his blood for us, be crucified, and then later on
1:27:02
send what you call a prophet who was so morally inferior to Jesus
1:27:08
Christ? It's it is unfathomable to me
1:27:12
that the people in the Muslim world look at Jesus Christ and
1:27:16
Muhammad and actually think that they could sit in the John the
1:27:19
Baptist himself said that he was not worthy to tie the straps of
1:27:24
the sandals of the Messiah, John the Baptist of all people.
1:27:27
And yet people look at Muhammad like if he's on the same level
1:27:30
with Jesus Christ. Now let me ask you a question.
1:27:32
Where's Muhammad's body? The thing in Saudi?
1:27:37
Arabia. Saudi Arabia, right?
1:27:39
Where's Jesus? Like according to my belief.
1:27:46
According to the Quran and according to the Bible, where's
1:27:48
Jesus? In Jesus in the Bible, I think
1:27:52
is in heaven. And according to the Quran.
1:27:55
And I think in the Quran he's dead as well.
1:27:57
No, in the Quran he's in heaven. Yeah, I, I hear this a lot,
1:28:02
right? People in the Quran said that he
1:28:04
was taken up, right? Yes.
1:28:06
But in the Quran says that he died, well, fatally, right?
1:28:11
Are you sure? Yeah, Yeah, I can.
1:28:14
I can go on about this because I disagree a lot of about Muslims
1:28:17
on this point, right? OK, so here, let me stop you
1:28:19
right there. And I'm not trying to cut you
1:28:21
off near because you know I never do that.
1:28:22
But here's the problem, brother, you cannot say Are you sure
1:28:28
you're a Muslim man? Because you're saying that you
1:28:30
disagree with pretty much most of the things that they say,
1:28:32
right? No, I mean I just read the text.
1:28:35
I was hoping to ask him a quick. Please, please go ahead.
1:28:37
Please go ahead. Go ahead brother.
1:28:38
I'm step away for a second. I think I'm noticing the same
1:28:42
thing Mavericks noticing here with you.
1:28:45
Can I ask you something? Do you feel like you're in some
1:28:46
kind of danger if you speak out against the Muslims in your
1:28:50
local area? It sounds like it.
1:28:52
If if I go out publicly, then yeah.
1:28:55
Yeah, that's what it is. That's what.
1:28:57
It is so you, you realize I, I don't think any of those people
1:29:01
are listening right now. But if you are honestly
1:29:06
questioning and you're having some skepticism, which does
1:29:09
sound like you do, but is, is this what's holding you back
1:29:13
because you're worried about your your health and condition?
1:29:20
Well, as of right now, as I'm talking with you guys, I'm not
1:29:22
really worried, right? Like I'm, I'm, I'm in my room,
1:29:24
everything is locked, right? So I'm, I'm safe right then,
1:29:28
Yeah, I do have some skepticism, right?
1:29:29
That's why I'm here asking questions.
1:29:32
Then you're also in fear that if you were to publicly speak about
1:29:36
this, you'd be in trouble. Yeah, if I were to publicly go
1:29:39
out about this, yeah, I'd be in trouble.
1:29:43
I'm so sorry to hear. I'm so sorry to hear about that.
1:29:48
That's OK. No, it's it's not OK.
1:29:52
You should be able to question and talk about how you see
1:29:56
things. Asking questions makes you
1:29:59
stronger. Being able to ask questions
1:30:02
about your views and ideas is is good for you.
1:30:06
And if you can't go out in public and talk about these
1:30:09
things because you're concerned that your life might be in
1:30:12
jeopardy, it's just, it's not fair.
1:30:15
It's not right. It's not.
1:30:16
And the thing about it is, guys, is that he does live in Morocco.
1:30:19
This is why I've never asked near why he doesn't show his
1:30:21
face. First of all, I don't require
1:30:23
anybody to show their face or give their real identity.
1:30:24
As a matter of fact, please don't come out here giving your
1:30:26
real identity. That is completely unnecessary.
1:30:30
Everybody knows who God is. I don't care what, what, what
1:30:34
alias we use. But that is a very insightful
1:30:36
question from brother Brett because I was actually thinking
1:30:38
the same thing. And I and, and the reason I know
1:30:42
that brother Nerva is because I don't think that you actually
1:30:44
believe in the Quran as the word of God.
1:30:46
I think that you are worried and looking over your shoulder.
1:30:49
I think that you and your heart know and feel Jesus Christ
1:30:53
tugging on you. I think that you feel the right,
1:30:56
that what the right thing is to do and, and, and our and our
1:30:59
just praying to God that the Moroccan government is not
1:31:01
listening in on you. You and I are going to have to
1:31:05
find a way to actually talk outside of the stream because I
1:31:08
don't think that you really do believe in the Quran as a word
1:31:10
of God. And the reason I know that is
1:31:12
because when you first called here, you were asking me about
1:31:15
biblical scripture nonstop and I could hear how interested you
1:31:19
were. And, and, and more than that,
1:31:21
when you would speak about the scripture, you would speak about
1:31:24
it in a way with this confidence that you never speak about the
1:31:28
Quran about right? This is a, you are a, a, a
1:31:31
self-proclaimed Muslim man from Morocco.
1:31:32
And I've never once heard you speak about the Quran or
1:31:35
Muhammad until this call. You called here like 3-4 times
1:31:37
already and all your questions have been about the Bible.
1:31:40
So if I had to be a guessing man, I would say that you are
1:31:43
seeking truth and you do feel a calling from Jesus Christ and
1:31:47
you do feel like Jesus Christ is a true Messiah.
1:31:49
You're just too afraid to say it because you don't want to lose
1:31:51
your life. Does that sound about right?
1:31:55
I'm certainly curious about, you know, the about the fate, right?
1:32:00
That's why I'm here, you know, asking questions.
1:32:02
Yeah. I, I I don't really think that I
1:32:05
have enough evidence to say this is the truth or this is
1:32:08
falsehood, right? I feel like I cannot judge as of
1:32:12
right now. I don't, I don't have enough
1:32:13
knowledge, right? Which is why I'm here asking
1:32:15
questions because people who are more knowledgeable than me.
1:32:18
Amen. And I, and I, and I appreciate
1:32:19
that man, because there's nothing I love more than an
1:32:22
intellectual, honest person. I told you from the beginning
1:32:24
that I feel that that's exactly what you are.
1:32:27
I think that you need to continue reading.
1:32:31
You need to continue reading that Bible.
1:32:33
And even if you have to hide it because you're in fear for your
1:32:35
life, do what you got to do, brother.
1:32:37
Do not be ashamed of seeking the truth, even if it means you may
1:32:40
lose your life, because it's not because you're doing it because
1:32:43
you're ashamed of Christ. You're doing it because you
1:32:46
don't want something to happen to yourself and to your family.
1:32:48
And I completely understand that there are countless millions of
1:32:51
people going through the same thing in China, in North Korea,
1:32:54
and any number of Middle Eastern countries.
1:32:56
OK? Do not in Africa, do not ever
1:33:01
feel like you're the only one who's there.
1:33:03
I, my social media is open. My Discord is there, my
1:33:08
Instagram is there even look, even if you want to call me on
1:33:11
Instagram, if you want to direct, you don't even have to
1:33:13
show your camera. Nothing like that.
1:33:14
That's why I leave my links there because I did that with
1:33:18
the understanding that there were going to people be people
1:33:20
who called from all corners of the world who we're going to be
1:33:25
curious about Jesus Christ. And that is something that
1:33:28
Lucifer will continue to try to stop no matter what.
1:33:32
Now, I do appreciate you trying to defend what you believe, but
1:33:38
I will honestly ask you a question And I just, I, I, this
1:33:41
is not because of anything else, man.
1:33:42
I just, I just want to honestly say I want to, I want you to
1:33:45
give me an honest answer. Do you believe if you had to
1:33:49
look at this objectively and you look at the conversation that
1:33:52
we've had and I've given you all of the historical evidence that
1:33:55
I have, Muslim and otherwise, right?
1:33:57
Secular evidence, Muslim evidence, archaeological
1:34:00
evidence, scriptural evidence. Do you honestly believe that
1:34:04
knowing everything that I have informed you of today, that you
1:34:08
can still look at the Quran and say if you had to choose right
1:34:11
now between the Bible and the Quran right now, just based on
1:34:15
this conversation, which one would you choose?
1:34:19
As of as of right now, if I had to choose one book that I could
1:34:23
pick and, and you know, go on with what do we mean the, the
1:34:26
Bible? Do we mean the the the New
1:34:28
Testament or do we mean? No, just the Bible in general.
1:34:31
The Bible, The Bible includes A Torah, right?
1:34:33
We don't, we don't pretend. We don't pretend like the Torah
1:34:35
didn't happen for us. The Torah was just human beings
1:34:39
and God slowly shepherding from the Israelites, showing the the
1:34:43
traditions through the Israelites.
1:34:44
When eventually Pagan nations started seeing what, what, what
1:34:47
a nation of Yahweh looked like. It was a just the Old Testament
1:34:51
for us was literally just looking forward to the New
1:34:53
Testament, right, which is why it's in there.
1:34:54
We don't try to pretend like our brothers in Israel are not our
1:34:57
brothers or that none of these things happened.
1:34:59
I'm talking about the Torah and, and, and even what you know,
1:35:02
some Muslims try to act like the Injeel that didn't happen, which
1:35:05
is a is a book that they claim is not the New Testament that
1:35:08
has never been historically corroborated.
1:35:09
That they try to make up and say that Jesus had with, which is a
1:35:12
complete lie because history verifies that Jesus read from
1:35:15
the from the Torah, which is, which is funny to me because
1:35:18
it's he read from the book of Isaiah.
1:35:20
He read from the book of David and Psalms and so on.
1:35:23
So again, my question stands, if you had to look and, and, and
1:35:27
listening to the historical evidence between which book is
1:35:30
actually backed by more historical and geological and
1:35:35
archaeological evidence, which one?
1:35:37
Would you say as an intelligent person that if you had to make a
1:35:40
choice right now and you can never make that decision again,
1:35:43
which one are you going? With Amen on those criteria.
1:35:56
Hallelujah for intellectual honesty.
1:35:59
That's it. I'm done.
1:36:00
I'm done. I have no brother but you.
1:36:01
Take off. I, I, I, I cannot have ever come
1:36:04
to more of a mission fulfillment than that one.
1:36:06
Go ahead, brother. But I, I, I, I'm just stay here
1:36:09
with the Holy Ghost and just enjoy that one right quick.
1:36:10
Go ahead bro. I appreciate the honesty and it
1:36:13
is really, really good news that you say that I'm just still in
1:36:18
the in my heart, I'm concerned for you.
1:36:20
Me too. No matter who if, if you have
1:36:23
Muslims that are in your family or or Muslims that you have are
1:36:27
friends. I'm not telling you to lie or
1:36:29
anything, but you need to keep your views to yourself until
1:36:33
you're in a safe place. Yeah, man, Yep, yeah, of course.
1:36:37
And near what is it? And I and I don't know much
1:36:40
about Morocco. I this is actually a genuine
1:36:41
question. Is it, is it normal or is it
1:36:47
standard practice for the Moroccan government to be
1:36:49
listening in on their people like the way they are known to
1:36:52
do in the United States? Well.
1:36:55
In, in, in, in Morocco, right? It's, it's not like, you know, a
1:37:00
country torn by war or anything, right?
1:37:02
Right. You do have people listening on
1:37:05
their conversations, right? I mean, they don't really care
1:37:07
about what you think religiously, right?
1:37:09
As long as you're not a threat to the government.
1:37:11
OK, OK. But they do view religion as a
1:37:15
way to control. Yeah, absolutely.
1:37:17
I understand that. I'm just, I'm just glad that
1:37:19
it's not something where we got to worry about not hearing from
1:37:21
you. Again, no, no, Yeah.
1:37:23
Yeah, well, you know my dad and that's, but it's a good
1:37:25
conversation, man. And and I'm glad that you came
1:37:27
in. I'm glad that again, that you
1:37:28
had the intestinal fortitude to come in.
1:37:31
You admitted yourself, you didn't, you didn't have a lot
1:37:34
of, of evidence to present. You just kind of came in with
1:37:37
what you're, you were taught. And and I will gladly count that
1:37:40
as evidence. No, no doubt about it, because
1:37:42
of the way you presented it and you were able to be articulate
1:37:44
about it. And you know, when it comes down
1:37:47
to it, I really do appreciate, like Brother Brett said, I do
1:37:50
appreciate you being honest. Because no matter what, that is
1:37:55
what the truth is right now. You can always say that truth
1:37:58
and honesty are not always synonymous, but you can't get to
1:38:00
the truth if you're not being honest.
1:38:02
Does that make sense? So for brother Nirv guys, this
1:38:06
is what we got. I appreciate it.
1:38:12
Brother Nirv, do you have any other questions, my brother?
1:38:17
Yeah, well, I wanted to ask a scriptural question, right.
1:38:21
Like, yeah, please do what? The Bible, right.
1:38:22
Yeah. So, so I, I read the Bible.
1:38:26
I've, I've been reading quite, quite, you know, quite a lot,
1:38:29
actually. Good.
1:38:31
I'm trying to gather knowledge about it, but one of the one of
1:38:35
the things that always stood out to me is why do Christians not
1:38:38
uphold the law anymore? Which law?
1:38:42
The Law of Moses. Oh, I see, so that comes down to
1:38:45
Jesus Christ fulfilling the ceremonial.
1:38:49
There was so the Israelites that have a lot of laws, right?
1:38:52
They had the ceremonial laws, they had the dietary laws, they
1:38:55
had their ordinance laws and of course they had the original
1:38:57
moral laws. Now all of these other laws were
1:39:00
not because God was just trying to put arbitrary like if you
1:39:04
look at those all of those original laws, there was like
1:39:06
over 600, I want to say 613, which a lot of people still to
1:39:08
this they try to fulfill. But the short answer is that
1:39:12
Christians do believe in the law of Moses, but they believe
1:39:16
through its fulfillment in Christ, not by rigidly
1:39:19
practicing every command as Israel did under the old
1:39:21
covenant. And I'm going to explain that.
1:39:24
So when people say why don't Christians follow the Mosaic law
1:39:27
like ancient Israel did, it's because Jesus fulfilled it.
1:39:30
And that you can find that in Matthew 517, it says, do not
1:39:33
think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.
1:39:37
I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.
1:39:40
Now we have to think logically about that.
1:39:42
When we say if something is fulfilled, it's completed,
1:39:45
right? You don't keep writing checks,
1:39:47
right? It's like if the debt is paid,
1:39:49
you don't keep on paying it. You once you're done, you're
1:39:50
done, right? And you don't keep you, you
1:39:53
don't keep training and studying after you graduated.
1:39:56
Jesus didn't cancel those laws, right?
1:39:59
He only kept the moral laws. Does that make sense?
1:40:02
That when he brought Gentiles in, it was because Yahweh had
1:40:06
obviously found it that enough of the Pagan nations around
1:40:10
Israel saw what a nation of Yahweh looked like, right?
1:40:14
But in Hebrews 711 talks about it a lot where it says Now if
1:40:17
perfection had been attainable through the Levitical
1:40:20
priesthood, what further need would there have been for
1:40:23
another priest to arise after the order of I always mess this
1:40:28
name up. Melchizedek.
1:40:31
Melchizedek. I hope I'm saying that right,
1:40:34
guys. But I, I hate old names because
1:40:35
I can. Yeah, I could not say them
1:40:37
right. But that's what the verse says.
1:40:38
OK. Hebrews 711 even if the Old
1:40:41
Testament, though Brother Nirv anticipated this change,
1:40:44
Jeremiah 3131 prophesized a new covenant.
1:40:47
So there was a prophecy and Jesus, that was another one that
1:40:50
he fulfilled where it said in Jeremiah 3131, I will make a new
1:40:54
covenant with the House of Israel, not like the covenant I
1:40:57
made with the Father. So Jesus explicitly inaugurated
1:41:01
the new covenant at the Last Supper in Luke 2220 when he said
1:41:05
this cup is the new covenant in my blood.
1:41:08
So Christians aren't cherry picking and choosing.
1:41:11
We follow Jesus and he fulfilled the ceremonial and civil aspects
1:41:14
of the law and those were tied to the temple, they were tied to
1:41:18
the sacrifices, they were tied to the kosher laws, etcetera.
1:41:21
So what does continue is the moral, although things like
1:41:25
unaliving people, adultery, theft, because they reflect
1:41:28
God's unchanging character and they're reaffirmed in the New
1:41:32
Testament. If you want to read in Romans
1:41:33
13, Galatians 5 and so on, there are many more if you want me to
1:41:37
send them to you. So the summary behind that is
1:41:40
that we're not choosing to ignore the old laws, right?
1:41:42
Because a ceremonial law says it was fulfilled by Christ.
1:41:45
And you can reference Hebrews chapter 10 verses one through 10
1:41:48
for that. The civil law tied to the
1:41:50
ancient theocracy of Israel and the moral law is still upheld
1:41:54
and reinforced in the new covenant.
1:41:56
The law was a tutor to lead us to Christ.
1:41:58
And it says so in Galatians chapter 3, verse 24.
1:42:01
And it wasn't at least a drag around after he had already
1:42:03
come. It was pointless after that.
1:42:05
So good question. But that's that's that's one
1:42:08
common thing that a lot of people like to try to say that,
1:42:11
you know, Christians pick and choose.
1:42:12
But that's because when people say that, it's simply that they
1:42:15
haven't actually read the Bible in context, and they don't even
1:42:18
know what the sacrifice of Christ even actually meant, if
1:42:21
that makes sense. Yeah, so.
1:42:25
I would say this real quick. Jesus said that if you love God
1:42:28
with all your body, heart, soul, mind, and you also treat others
1:42:33
as you want to be treated to unto others, the golden rule, if
1:42:36
you think about it, you're actually fulfilling all the
1:42:39
commandments by doing a thesis said correct, because you're not
1:42:42
stealing, you're not hating, you're not killing, and you're
1:42:45
honoring God and your parents and all that by simply doing
1:42:49
what he narrowed it down to. Yep, Amen.
1:42:54
So that's why it has it has nothing to do with ignoring
1:42:57
them. That's actually a that's
1:42:58
actually a popular atheist talking porn or or something
1:43:01
that people who are who practice homosexuality like to say.
1:43:06
But then you reply to them and you tell them, well, that first
1:43:08
of all, I'm not a 2000 year old Israelite.
1:43:11
So no, I don't not eat pork, right?
1:43:14
I don't care about mixing my fabrics.
1:43:17
I don't care about shaving my head, the sides of my head.
1:43:19
Because those laws were fulfilled already by Christ.
1:43:23
The only laws that Christ refused to abolish was the moral
1:43:28
law. Does that make sense?
1:43:32
Yes. So was it only fulfilled when
1:43:36
when he died on the cross? Correct.
1:43:40
So up until then, everyone had to follow them.
1:43:42
Well, the Israelites did because that was God's original chosen
1:43:45
people. Those are the people that he
1:43:46
chose to take out of bondage and to show the rest of the world
1:43:51
and the Pagan nations around them what a nation of Yahweh
1:43:54
looked like. Because at this point, you got
1:43:55
to remember, the people of the world were so corrupted.
1:43:58
They were polytheists, right? They were people.
1:43:59
Like, for example, it's the reason why the nation of Israel
1:44:03
has fallen so many times, because it was a group of people
1:44:05
who for the entirety of their lives had been under the rule of
1:44:09
the Egyptian and guard. And in Egypt they worshipped
1:44:12
many gods, right? So it's why so many times the
1:44:16
ancient Israelites fell into polytheism and they fell into
1:44:19
idolatry and things like that. So God knew that because human
1:44:23
beings are so stubborn that if he tried to do this with many
1:44:26
people, no, most people weren't going to listen.
1:44:29
He had to, he had to pick a group of people that were so
1:44:33
that that were so in in bondage, that were in slavery, that were
1:44:38
so persecuted that they are, their hearts would have been
1:44:41
open more. And that's why.
1:44:43
And, and even then, even with the suffering that they were
1:44:46
going through, they still fell back into their old ways so many
1:44:48
times, right? It's why they were a people who
1:44:52
a trip that should have only taken a week took decades
1:44:55
because of their because of their stubbornness, because of
1:44:58
their inability to listen. I'm sorry.
1:45:01
God calls them stiff necked, right?
1:45:03
Yes. Yeah, I mean, when, when I read
1:45:10
it right, it it seemed like for the most part, it was mostly
1:45:14
like Jesus was upholding the law, right?
1:45:17
And that only later on, you know, through Paul's letters,
1:45:22
was the law slowly taken away, right?
1:45:26
No, because Jesus made it clear that he had fulfilled the
1:45:28
covenant as I had, as I had already alluded to in the book
1:45:31
of Luke I. See, yeah, So nowadays people
1:45:37
don't like you, don't really earn anything by following the
1:45:40
law. No, because, because to follow
1:45:43
the law, to insinuate that you can get into heaven by following
1:45:46
the law makes the insinuation that you can get into heaven by
1:45:49
works and nobody can get into heaven by works.
1:45:51
Not a single one of us, everybody gets into heaven by
1:45:54
proclaiming with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, truly
1:45:56
believing in their heart, allowing themselves to be
1:45:58
consumed by the Holy Spirit and, and, and living a lifestyle of
1:46:02
repentance. If you're not doing those things
1:46:04
and ensuring that you get baptized, if you actually have
1:46:06
the ability to get baptized, then you are not, you are not
1:46:10
doing what Jesus commanded. And if you're not doing what he
1:46:12
commanded, then you are not going to be readopted into the
1:46:16
presence of, of Yahweh. OK.
1:46:19
So yeah, about that, right? So do Jews go to heaven
1:46:23
according to Christianity? Not if they reject the Messiah.
1:46:28
Even if they proclaim that the Father is God.
1:46:30
Doesn't matter, does not matter. Jesus made it clear there is
1:46:34
only one way to heaven and that is through me.
1:46:37
I don't care who you are and I and I know that sounds harsh,
1:46:40
but at the end of the day, I think that this world has had
1:46:42
enough sugar coating and, and when it comes down to it, the
1:46:45
truth is the truth, right? Jesus made it clear he was the
1:46:48
only perfect person to ever live, right?
1:46:50
Jesus was sinless. Even in, in the Quran, it talks
1:46:53
about as Jesus as sinless. Now, that's not because I
1:46:55
believe that the Quran is the word of God, but even in the
1:46:57
Quran it, it, it admits that Jesus was sinless, right?
1:47:00
So if a person who has never committed a sin comes out and
1:47:03
literally says that I am the only way to God the Father
1:47:07
through me, I am the mediator, guess what?
1:47:11
I'm going to follow what the only perfect person on earth to
1:47:14
ever have lived physically says to me, and it's not going to
1:47:17
matter what anybody else says. So yeah, unfortunately, that
1:47:20
means that Jews are right there with them.
1:47:22
Because the thing about Jewish people is that they don't
1:47:24
understand that they have rejected A Messiah as a
1:47:28
suffering servant, but they don't realize that the
1:47:32
prophecies that were projected in the Old Testament, many of
1:47:36
them could only have been fulfilled in the time that they
1:47:38
were fulfilled. Too much time has passed for
1:47:41
almost any of those prophecies to be fulfilled now.
1:47:45
And there's no way that we're not going to have another
1:47:47
servant that's born in Bethlehem that is sinless, right?
1:47:50
We're not going to have any of that.
1:47:51
And, and the fact of the matter is they, they are, they are
1:47:55
talked to the same way that Muslim kids are talked to, where
1:47:58
you are just taught to believe this.
1:48:00
And this is what you will say and this is what you will
1:48:02
believe. And that's just how it's going
1:48:04
to be, right? Unfortunately, that's, you know,
1:48:08
very far from the truth. I don't know if nerd's able to
1:48:12
see links that I post into the ninja thing, but I I actually
1:48:17
did a article less than a week ago about this very topic that
1:48:21
we're talking about and I supplied verses in order to back
1:48:25
it up. Nerv, if you get an opportunity,
1:48:28
when you get a chance, if you got that link, you can text that
1:48:31
article up before. Maybe that'll clear it up a
1:48:34
little bit better. Yeah, well, thank you very much.
1:48:37
Yeah, I'll, I'll read that thread.
1:48:39
And then there was also the, I think a passage in Matthew 7,
1:48:43
right where I think Jesus tells people to depart from him, and
1:48:48
he calls them workers of lawlessness.
1:48:50
Workers of iniquity, yeah. Yeah.
1:48:52
Is that related to the law, to the same law we're talking
1:48:56
about? That verse is about people who
1:48:58
call themselves Christians but are not really Christian, right?
1:49:01
Those are Those are about people who are Christian in name only
1:49:05
and they're not right. For example, there are many
1:49:08
pastors and my pastor talked about this at length and he said
1:49:11
it a lot of times when it's true.
1:49:12
He was like, you guys got to understand that on the day of
1:49:14
the harvest, not the rapture, but the harvest as it actually
1:49:18
talks about accurately in the Bible, where Jesus is going to
1:49:20
return and his children are going to ascend into the heavens
1:49:23
with him and it's going to be for all the world to see.
1:49:26
I want you guys to honestly understand this and because it
1:49:30
is 100% true and I wish that it wasn't.
1:49:34
When Jesus Christ returns and he streaks through the sky with his
1:49:39
hair glowing white and his eyes glowing red to return for
1:49:42
judgement and everybody sees everyone ascending.
1:49:46
You guys have to understand that there are going to be jail
1:49:49
cells, prison cells that are empty and there are going to be
1:49:53
Christian pastors that stay behind because there are so many
1:49:57
people who claim to be Christian but don't read the Bible, don't
1:50:02
have a relationship with God, do not they they do no good works.
1:50:05
They are not baptized. They just like to sit there
1:50:07
sanctimoniously acting like they are actual Christians.
1:50:12
But Matthew Chapter 7 verse 21 says not everyone who says to me
1:50:15
Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of my father.
1:50:17
It follows up to say I will tell I will say to you depart from me
1:50:21
worker of iniquity for I never knew you.
1:50:23
Now a lot of people, the non believers like to try to say, oh
1:50:26
see Jesus isn't God because he doesn't know people.
1:50:29
No, the original word is a word that indicates a relationship
1:50:33
with you. I never had a relationship with
1:50:35
you, which means you never sought me.
1:50:36
You never wanted to be with me. You never wanted to know me, you
1:50:39
never wanted to love me. Therefore I don't know who you
1:50:42
are. I know who you are, but I don't
1:50:45
know you personally. And now you're sitting here
1:50:48
because you have proclaimed my name in front of people for
1:50:50
money or whatever other reason. It was thinking that you're
1:50:53
going to get in here. Well, guess where you're going
1:50:55
to spend eternity and it ain't up here.
1:50:56
Home skillet. That's what Matthew 721 is
1:50:59
about. It's about those people who like
1:51:01
to say that they have the Holy Spirit.
1:51:03
It's it's, it's about the people who, and I'm not, you know what
1:51:06
I was about to say names. I'm not even going to do that
1:51:09
because I'm not going to to talk about the speck in my brother's
1:51:13
eye while I have a Moat in my own.
1:51:14
I'm not going to do that. I'm going to judge with
1:51:16
righteous judgment, as it says in the book of Galatians.
1:51:18
And I will tell you guys that no matter what, I'm not going to
1:51:21
name names because people can repent, right?
1:51:22
I don't know what people are going to do.
1:51:24
Only God sees the beginning from the end.
1:51:27
But when it comes down to it, those people, if they continue
1:51:30
to live unrepentant, right? Those prosperity pastors, those
1:51:33
people who want to get on TV and tell them, send us money and God
1:51:36
is going to help you pay off your mortgage.
1:51:37
You guys keep on doing that dumb crap.
1:51:40
You're going to be sitting there down there just with all those,
1:51:42
with all those P3D OS and all those criminals and all those
1:51:45
other people and all those atheists who sat there and
1:51:47
thought that they knew more than God, right?
1:51:49
You keep on pulling that crap and see what happens.
1:51:51
At the end of the day. That's what Matthew 721 is
1:51:53
talking about. It's not talking about.
1:51:54
I know that there are people who get a pause in their heart when
1:51:57
it comes to that, but let me tell you something.
1:51:59
That verse doesn't scare me. If you are a person who really
1:52:03
loves God and really truly has a relationship with the Messiah
1:52:06
and you feel the Holy Spirit consuming you on a regular
1:52:08
basis, that verse doesn't scare me because I know that I know
1:52:11
Jesus. There's nothing fake about it
1:52:14
that. But that verse is for those who
1:52:16
like to say and proclaim Jesus name for their own personal
1:52:19
greedy reasons, but don't really know Jesus Christ and have never
1:52:22
once got on their knees to pray and never once actually felt the
1:52:25
Holy Spirit and never once got baptized and everyone's even had
1:52:27
a conversation with the Messiah. Does that make sense?
1:52:33
Nerve. Are you still there?
1:52:34
Yeah, I'm still here. Nerve, you mind if I ask you a
1:52:38
couple questions? Yeah, of course.
1:52:41
Now, according to your knowledge and what you know, was Muhammad
1:52:45
born naturally? Yeah.
1:52:50
He was born naturally. What about the other prophets of
1:52:53
the Bible? Not the Bible.
1:52:55
I don't mean of the Bible, I mean of the Quran.
1:52:58
Of the Quran, the only two people that have had I guess
1:53:04
unnatural birds would be Adam and Jesus.
1:53:09
So Jesus had a you would say it wasn't like Muhammad when he was
1:53:14
born of a virgin, correct? Yes.
1:53:17
So why was Jesus if he was just merely a prophet?
1:53:21
Why was he born in this way but not Muhammad?
1:53:28
Mainly because it's the Messiah, right?
1:53:29
That's what the Quran calls him. Yeah, that's.
1:53:35
So if the Quran, the book that you were raised to believe,
1:53:39
points back to the previous book, to the Messiah of the
1:53:42
previous revelation, which was the actual last revelation, why
1:53:47
would anything else that the Quran says be credible?
1:53:51
Why would you follow up a perfect human being with a
1:53:56
barbaric, questionable, morally person like Muhammad?
1:54:04
You said it earlier. You said it earlier, Jesus is in
1:54:07
heaven, right? That he ascended above.
1:54:09
Muhammad's body is in Saudi Arabia.
1:54:13
Why would we think that the Quran is an updated version of
1:54:18
God's revelation when he used such a despicable human being?
1:54:24
The question the answer is because he did not.
1:54:28
Muhammad was not a prophet of God, Not by any shape.
1:54:32
In no shape, form or fashion was Muhammad a prophet of God.
1:54:38
I mean, if, if, if I had to say it right, I mean based on
1:54:43
hadith, right, I would say that the prophet is some pretty
1:54:45
questionable self, right? Oh yeah, yeah, I, I, I cannot
1:54:49
defend that right. But in the Quran he seems OK
1:54:53
right? I think the only things you
1:54:55
could really argue based on the Quran is would be that some
1:54:59
verses are pretty violent, right?
1:55:02
That's right. I mean, we have violent verses
1:55:04
in the Bible. That's not what I'm basing it
1:55:05
off of. I'm talking about moral
1:55:07
character. Can you give me an example?
1:55:11
His marriage to Aisha. His marriage to Aisha, right?
1:55:17
Well, I, I, I've had this question, right?
1:55:20
And then so you think his marriage to Aisha would not be
1:55:24
something that God would want, right.
1:55:27
One minute, please. I have a phone call.
1:55:29
Sure. Excuse me?
1:55:35
So I mean, Muhammad's marriage to Aisha is just one of many.
1:55:44
You know, the thing about it is guys, is that I just don't, I
1:55:46
don't get how people can look at Muhammad and look at his, his
1:55:51
his predecessor, right and and say these guys are on the same
1:55:56
level. Why it just, I mean
1:55:58
theologically, even even sensibly, it makes no sense.
1:56:02
Why would we have a perfect Messiah who completed it?
1:56:05
Jesus said when he was on the cross, it is finished if Jesus
1:56:10
said it is finished. And even the Quran looks at
1:56:13
Jesus Christ and says that he was a perfect individual who was
1:56:15
ascended into heaven. And Jesus when he died on the
1:56:18
cross said it is finished. So if it was finished, then why
1:56:23
later on are we supposedly with another prophet named Muhammad
1:56:26
right now? The Quran looks at Jesus Christ
1:56:29
as a Messiah and it says, yes, he was the Messiah.
1:56:32
Yes, he ascended into heaven. Yes, he was sinless, He was born
1:56:35
of a virgin. It admits all of these things.
1:56:38
Yes. It admits every single one of
1:56:40
these things. So how are we even looking at
1:56:44
Muhammad as a Messiah, Right. I'm sorry, brother.
1:56:47
Go ahead. Say what you were going to say.
1:56:48
Yeah. So we're like on on his marriage
1:56:51
to Aisha, right? So.
1:56:54
And I asked, would his marriage be something immoral to God?
1:56:58
Yes. Right.
1:57:00
So that's what I would think as well, right.
1:57:03
But then when I when I read the Old Testament, at least it
1:57:07
seemed like being married to young people wasn't really an
1:57:10
issue, right? Do you have any evidence for
1:57:12
that? Do you, do you have any evidence
1:57:15
that there was anyone in the Bible who married somebody that
1:57:18
young? I would say the for example the
1:57:23
sort of Moses for the Midianites.
1:57:28
Can you elaborate on that? Yeah, so when, when the
1:57:32
Midianites had their wicked parties, right, With the, with
1:57:36
the, with the children of Israel, right.
1:57:39
And then God decided to punish them, right.
1:57:42
I think it's in numbers. I'm not, I'm not sure in the
1:57:44
particular chapter, I'd have to look it up.
1:57:47
But he basically told them to kill everyone, right?
1:57:52
Including the infants, and to take every girl who hadn't slept
1:57:56
with a man. So you're OK?
1:57:58
So first of all, you're confusing God's judgments, which
1:58:03
so God gives life, which means he can take it away whenever he
1:58:06
wants, right? You cannot compare God making a
1:58:10
judgment and saying, OK, I will now end your lives, and that is
1:58:14
going to be part of the judgment I cast upon you because God is
1:58:16
perfect. God can cast judgment on whoever
1:58:19
He wants, whenever he wants. He can give life as soon as he,
1:58:22
He can take life as soon as he gives it, or he can take it 100
1:58:25
years later. That is completely different
1:58:27
than anything that Muhammad does Right.
1:58:29
But the common passage that you were brought up to to challenge
1:58:32
the moral integrity of the Bible was from Numbers 31, where God
1:58:36
commands Moses to take vengeance on the media nights after their
1:58:40
intentional seduction of Israel into idolatry and sexual
1:58:44
immorality. And that's Numbers 25.
1:58:47
That's where it happened, right? But if you actually read the
1:58:50
full context and understand the culture, the crime, and the
1:58:53
covenant, you'll realize that this wasn't just some
1:58:56
unjustified bloodbath. So here's what it comes down to.
1:59:00
The media nights weren't not just throwing wild parties, they
1:59:03
were intentionally orchestrating Israel's spiritual collapse.
1:59:07
So they were getting together and they were literally
1:59:09
conjuring up conspiracies to try to destroy Israel and their
1:59:13
relationship with Yahweh, right? And it wasn't just a matter of
1:59:16
national conflict, it was religious sabotage.
1:59:19
So Numbers chapter 25 verses one through 3 makes it clear that
1:59:23
they use their women strategically to lure Israelite
1:59:25
men into fornication and Baal warship who essentially is the
1:59:29
devil, which is a direct violation of God's covenant with
1:59:33
his people. This was what God considered to
1:59:36
be spiritual treason and 24,000 Israelites died in a plague
1:59:41
because of it. So God's judgment and #31 wasn't
1:59:44
about ethnic cleansing. It was justice against a nation
1:59:48
that had weaponized sex and idolatry to try to destroy the
1:59:51
very foundation of Israel's faith.
1:59:54
Now, of course, this is a nation that God is trying to use to
1:59:57
show the world what a Yahweh fearing nation is supposed to
2:00:02
look like. Do you really think that he was
2:00:05
going to allow the Medianites or anybody else to interfere with
2:00:08
that? Absolutely not, right.
2:00:10
And, and, and then you, you tried to allude to the infants
2:00:13
and, and you don't take the lives of everyone and the
2:00:15
elderly and the infants, right? And that's a part that, yeah, of
2:00:18
course shocks the modern ears, understandably.
2:00:20
But an ancient tribal warfare, leaving the boys alive meant
2:00:24
preserving the future warriors of that enemy tribe.
2:00:27
So. Those people would eventually
2:00:28
grow up and continue the same hostility, which was Total War,
2:00:32
right? Not diplomacy.
2:00:33
So even though, yes, it is unpleasant at the end of the
2:00:36
day, let me ask you a question. These little, these, these tiny,
2:00:40
these tiny little bees, these babies and everything that were
2:00:44
that their lives were taken by the Israelites or anyone else
2:00:46
that was commanded by God's judgement, right?
2:00:49
Those babies obviously had not passed the age of ascension.
2:00:52
So if God is now taking back the life that he provided to those
2:00:55
babies, where are those babies now?
2:00:57
I mean, in, in heaven. Thank you very much.
2:01:03
So at the end was justice served by those babies not being
2:01:08
allowed to grow into men that were going to be participating
2:01:10
in iniquity and become men who are going to be cast out into
2:01:13
the flames where there is darkness, weeping, weeping and
2:01:16
gnashing of teeth, right. You can see that mercy, right?
2:01:19
Yes, absolutely. My my question is as well.
2:01:22
I mean, the, the original question wasn't really about
2:01:25
this, right? It was it tied back into the the
2:01:27
marriage that they had with the the the girls left, not not the
2:01:32
little infant spoil right and you hadn't slept with a man or
2:01:36
known a man intimately. I know what he's talking about.
2:01:40
Unless he's, I think he's going with chapter 31, verse 17
2:01:45
through 18. If you read further up in the
2:01:48
verses, I've heard a lot of atheists actually bring that
2:01:51
verse too, because he tried to make God look immoral, like he's
2:01:55
allowing it. If you look right in the very
2:01:58
first beginning of the chapter, God actually says wipe them all
2:02:02
out, right? Take them all out, Take out the
2:02:04
entire midnights when the soldiers got a hold of them and
2:02:08
killed them and all this. It was their idea to actually
2:02:12
keep the little girls and all that.
2:02:13
And Moses actually yells at them about it.
2:02:16
If you continue to read through the passages, they then after
2:02:20
the the killing that had happened, they go and they wash
2:02:24
their hands in the river and they clean up and all that and
2:02:28
they go about their way. But God actually instructed they
2:02:31
all get ended right. For some reason, some of the
2:02:34
soldiers decided they wanted to have plans of their own, which
2:02:38
Moses ended up correcting them are.
2:02:40
Right. And for those of you who are in
2:02:42
the chat who try to what you think is clever to mention
2:02:46
Rebecca, the Bible does indirectly talk about her age.
2:02:50
Because Rebecca was already doing things that for that
2:02:53
culture in that time was already synonymous with what the work of
2:02:56
a young woman would be, which was hauling islands of back of
2:02:59
water back and forth and so forth.
2:03:01
So because that has never been the duty assigned to a
2:03:04
three-year old ever in history. That's just a typical Muslim lie
2:03:08
that people try to use in order to try to justify what Muhammad
2:03:13
did to that little girl. You're not going to get there
2:03:15
because the Bible completely destroys anything that you're
2:03:18
going to say about Rebecca. Rebecca was not the age of
2:03:20
three. I don't know where the hell that
2:03:21
came from. I've seen some of Muslims, some
2:03:24
of Islams top apologists get crushed trying to use that in
2:03:27
debates because they're asked to historically verify that.
2:03:30
And then all you got to do is go to the Bible where it makes it
2:03:33
very clear that Rebecca was doing things that only was
2:03:36
allowed from a young woman of that culture at the time.
2:03:38
So unless she was a three-year old that had the strength of
2:03:41
Superman, there is no way that that girl was hauling gallons of
2:03:45
water back and forth if she was the age of three or the age of
2:03:48
six. Women weren't even allowed to do
2:03:50
that until they were much later in their teens, about anywhere
2:03:53
from 14 to 18 to 19 years old, depending on who what The Who
2:03:56
the girl was depending on when they got their their, their
2:03:59
menstrual cycle and all those other other things.
2:04:01
But Rebecca was not three. That, that is just a typical
2:04:03
Muslim lie that Muslims think they're going to pop into a chat
2:04:07
when they think they're being clever.
2:04:08
But you have actually no historical evidence or
2:04:10
documentation to back that up. It's just a stupidity repeated
2:04:13
by desperate Muslims who want to try to justify that Muhammad was
2:04:18
a dirty old 50 year old something man who decided that
2:04:21
he was going to be touching little girls.
2:04:23
Sorry you don't like it. Too damn bad that's the truth.
2:04:26
Hey, I was wanting to know if I could share with you and nerve
2:04:29
something you may know about this already Maverick, but I
2:04:32
noticed Muslims gloss over this. Or maybe they they
2:04:36
intellectually don't notice it whenever they're talking about
2:04:38
it. But you know how the argument is
2:04:41
about Jesus and the crucifixion? Well, there's something
2:04:45
fascinating in the verse and the reason why I'm bringing this up
2:04:49
as you earlier, we're talking about where's Muhammad's body?
2:04:52
Where's all this? It's rumored.
2:04:54
There's no facts to exclusively bring it up, but it's rumored
2:04:58
that Muhammad's body's off under some kind of Dome thing as far
2:05:02
as Jesus goes. Now this is fascinating.
2:05:05
And Surah and Nisa I think is how it's pronounced 4157 through
2:05:11
158 the Quran addresses it says and for saying indeed we have
2:05:17
killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of
2:05:20
Allah. And they did not kill him, nor
2:05:23
did they crucify him, but another was made resemble to
2:05:27
him. So according to this, it's
2:05:29
verifying that a crucifixion actually happened.
2:05:32
They're just saying that it was a change out.
2:05:34
But keep listening. Here's where it gets
2:05:37
fascinating. And indeed, those who differ
2:05:39
over it are in doubt about it and have no knowledge of it
2:05:43
except the following assumption. Now you remember when you asked
2:05:46
him where's the body of Jesus? Well the verses declare that
2:05:52
Allah raised Jesus up and Allah is God and he went directly to
2:05:59
heaven. Basically they didn't have a
2:06:01
story about the women and the tomb and all that, but still it
2:06:05
says that he was actually taking up the Allah so why would he do
2:06:09
that for him if if Jesus wasn't special?
2:06:13
Yep, and to answer any comments about I'm going to use actual
2:06:18
evidence in reality to to put this to bed once and for all
2:06:22
because I knew it was only going to be a matter of time once I
2:06:24
brought up Aisha that somebody was going to mention Rebecca.
2:06:27
But unfortunately what you're saying is one of the most
2:06:29
butchered and cherry picked misrepresented maturistic
2:06:33
traditions you'll hear parroted by what is only desperate
2:06:37
critics of the Bible. Because I'm going to be
2:06:38
extraordinarily clear with you guys, Nowhere in the Torah does
2:06:42
it say that Rebecca was three years old.
2:06:45
That number comes from a later rabbinic speculation in Percade,
2:06:49
the Rabbi Eliser, which is a non canonical Jewish text written
2:06:52
centuries after the biblical account, and it is not taken
2:06:56
seriously by almost any Jewish scholar and definitely not taken
2:07:00
seriously by any Christian scholars or even secular
2:07:03
scholars. Genesis 2416 describes Rebecca
2:07:06
as a young woman in Hebrew. Nara.
2:07:09
I'm sorry, na ara, very beautiful to behold.
2:07:12
A virgin. No man has known her.
2:07:14
The Hebrew word na ara refers to a girl.
2:07:18
I got somebody else in here I'm going to mute.
2:07:23
The Hebrew word na ada refers to a girl of marriageable age,
2:07:26
typically between 12 and 20 years old, not a toddler.
2:07:30
There is 0 precedent for a three-year old being called na
2:07:34
ada. In fact, the same word is used
2:07:36
for women like Dina in Genesis chapter 34 verse 3 and Ruth in
2:07:41
the book of Ruth chapter 3 chapter 2 verse 6 and they are
2:07:44
clearly not infants. It looks like we have somebody
2:07:47
else in the chat. I don't see the name.
2:07:51
Do me a favor, if you have the stream on in the background for
2:07:54
our new guest, let me let me just mute it because we're
2:08:00
hearing I'm hearing my own voice in the background.
2:08:02
It doesn't shows that you don't have a name here, so that's
2:08:04
fine. I'll leave you in.
2:08:06
Can you hear me? No, not you, Nerv.
2:08:10
There's another guest here, but he's not saying anything for my
2:08:12
new guest. You don't have a name, you don't
2:08:14
have a camera. Do, is there something you want
2:08:15
us to call you? Hello.
2:08:22
I know you can. I know you can hear because I
2:08:24
heard my voice in the background.
2:08:26
Hello. Hello.
2:08:28
Yes. How can I help you?
2:08:32
Hello. All right, guys, I'm going to
2:08:37
be. I'm not going to.
2:08:38
I'm not going to waste time on people who are going to call
2:08:39
them. Just not say anything, all
2:08:41
right? So, yeah, yeah, one more point,
2:08:44
right? Yep.
2:08:44
So did Jesus tell people to follow the Pharisees, right?
2:08:49
Did he tell them to follow the Pharisees?
2:08:51
Yes. Where are you getting that from?
2:08:55
Well, that's that's that's the thing I hear.
2:08:57
But wait, the thing I have. No brother, I don't want here, I
2:09:00
want I want evidence. What?
2:09:02
What biblical scripture are you referring to?
2:09:06
The then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, the
2:09:10
scribes and the Pharisees set on Moses seat.
2:09:13
So do want to observe what they tell you, but not the works they
2:09:16
do, for they preach but do not practice.
2:09:19
I think that's Matthew 23. One to one to three.
2:09:22
Oh, I oh, I see what you're saying.
2:09:23
So you're saying so you think that he was literally saying to
2:09:26
do as they do? Well, to follow what they say,
2:09:32
but to not do what they do because they preach, but they
2:09:35
don't practice. So and I yeah, so that what he's
2:09:38
talking about guys is from the book of Matthew chapter 23 verse
2:09:41
one through 3 when Jesus said to the crowds and his disciples,
2:09:44
the scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses seat.
2:09:46
So do and observed whatever they tell you, but do not the works
2:09:51
they do. You see how inconvenient it was
2:09:53
that you left that part out? You see that?
2:09:55
This is exactly why I talk about intellectual honesty guys,
2:09:59
because it says do and observe whatever they tell you, but not
2:10:03
the works that they do, for they preach but do not practice.
2:10:09
Right. OK, but so you would have to
2:10:11
follow what they say, right? So right here, well, I will
2:10:15
explain to you Jesus what he was doing in those verses was
2:10:18
exposing hypocrisy, OK? He wasn't endorsing Pharisee
2:10:22
traditions. The verse wasn't, is not Jesus
2:10:25
giving the Pharisees a stamp of approval.
2:10:27
As we can, as, as we know from history, Jesus and the Pharisees
2:10:30
had it out all the time, right? Not in a way that made Jesus
2:10:33
sinful, but the fact of the matter was they did not like
2:10:36
that he was exposing their hypocrisy, right?
2:10:39
It was literally a scathing indictment of Pharisee practice.
2:10:43
He was pointing out that they sit in a position of teaching
2:10:45
authority, and that's why he called it Moses's seat.
2:10:49
But he was pointing out to them that they abuse that authority
2:10:52
by being hypocrites and telling others to do what they wanted
2:10:56
them to do while living in the contradiction of what it is that
2:11:00
they were telling people. So it wasn't the defense of the
2:11:02
Talmud, Oral Torah, or Rabbinic Judaism.
2:11:06
It's the setup for the entire chapter where Jesus absolutely
2:11:09
dismantles their spiritual arrogance in the famous woe to
2:11:13
you scribes and Pharisees tirade.
2:11:16
Now when we talk about Moses's seat, it refers to teaching the
2:11:20
written Torah and not oral traditions, right?
2:11:22
Because in Second Temple Judaism, the seat of Moses
2:11:26
referred to the role of publicly reading and explaining the Law
2:11:30
of Moses. OK.
2:11:31
And it was written in the Torah. It's not the equivalent to a
2:11:34
modern rabbinic authority or oral law later codified in the
2:11:38
Misna and the Talmud. And so basically in other words,
2:11:42
Jesus is telling them to obey Moses, not the man made
2:11:45
tradition. And this is actually reinforced
2:11:47
in Mark Chapter 7 verse 8. So Jesus said you leave the
2:11:51
commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men right.
2:11:56
So it the verse doesn't it doesn't justify rabbinic or
2:11:59
Phariseedic law. It condemns them for abandoning
2:12:01
God's commands in favor of their own systems.
2:12:03
But I want you guys to see what happened when near of there guys
2:12:06
because he mentioned the verse but I want you guys to notice
2:12:10
this is exactly why Christian apologists always talk about how
2:12:14
important context is because if he would have read the very next
2:12:18
verse, it would have completely under the point.
2:12:20
So I'm going to repeat it. Nerf said then Jesus said to the
2:12:23
crowds and the disciples, the scribes and the Pharisees sit on
2:12:26
Moses seat so do and observe whatever they tell you right and
2:12:32
then he stopped there. The rest of it said but not the
2:12:34
worst they do, for they preach, but they do not practice.
2:12:37
That part you didn't read. I'm pretty sure I did.
2:12:40
I didn't hear you say that. I could have swore I didn't hear
2:12:42
that part. But and then I went on to
2:12:44
explain that, you know, you should follow what they teach,
2:12:47
but not follow them literally because they don't practice what
2:12:51
they preach. I went on about that part.
2:12:53
Right. Yeah, but that, but that that
2:12:55
that is that is a very, that's a very broad misrepresentation of
2:12:59
what Jesus actually said, because he didn't say you said,
2:13:02
well, follow them, but they'll follow, but don't follow them
2:13:04
literally. Well, what the heck does that
2:13:06
mean? That doesn't mean anything, but
2:13:08
that's not what Jesus said. Jesus was saying follow the law,
2:13:12
not he was saying follow God, follow the laws, don't follow
2:13:16
man made traditions. That's what he was saying,
2:13:17
right? So when you say to somebody
2:13:19
follow them, but don't follow them.
2:13:20
Literally, if I go to my kids and say, OK, listen to what I
2:13:23
say, but don't literally listen to what I say, they're going to
2:13:26
look at me like I've been taking drugs.
2:13:29
You see what I'm saying? You have to say things the way
2:13:31
that they were actually said. Otherwise it is a very large
2:13:34
misrepresentation of what was actually said and what was
2:13:37
preached. Does that make sense?
2:13:39
Yeah, I'm sorry because I mean many because English is on my.
2:13:43
Oh, no, it's OK. No, I get, I understand.
2:13:44
I'm not, no, I'm not picking on you.
2:13:45
I'm just explaining to you how it is, how, how very important
2:13:49
it is to really look at context and what was said specifically
2:13:53
and then take that in reference with the the social historical
2:13:57
context and everything else around it.
2:13:59
Yeah, because my argument was going to be right because I I
2:14:02
heard this somewhere, is that mainly if if Jesus accepted the
2:14:08
Pharisees as a teaching authority, right.
2:14:10
And the Pharisees had in their midrash, I think that's what
2:14:14
it's called, right? In their laws, a three-year old
2:14:17
could be be shalted right So she could be married.
2:14:21
In their laws, yeah. In the ancient Levitical laws.
2:14:25
I think it's a major so in in their traditions.
2:14:28
I'll I'll get you the the exact passage.
2:14:33
Oh. I know what you're talking
2:14:34
about. Yeah.
2:14:35
OK, so the origin, yeah. So the origin of that claim is
2:14:39
an argument that traces back to a literal misrepresentation of
2:14:43
Genesis Raba, which is a 5th century AD Jewish Madras, right?
2:14:48
So where that came from is that some rabbis trying to reconcile
2:14:51
timeline speculated that Rebecca was born when Sarah died and
2:14:56
married Isaac three years later, which would make her three years
2:14:58
old. But that wasn't a doctrinal
2:15:00
teaching, it was a rabbinic thought experiment, and even
2:15:03
other rabbis vehemently rejected it.
2:15:05
So what's going on is that you're hearing things that were
2:15:09
fringe theories from millennia ago already, that people somehow
2:15:14
came up with some arbitrary fringe timeline that has been
2:15:17
debunked time and time and time again.
2:15:19
And even scholarly consensus among Jews says that it's not
2:15:23
true because most Jewish and Christian scholars, including
2:15:26
Rashi and Ivan Ezra and other contexts acknowledge that the
2:15:29
three-year old claim is not meant to be literal.
2:15:32
It's not to be literal. I'm sorry.
2:15:34
It's an exaggeration based on creative calendrical math and
2:15:38
not a statement of historical fact.
2:15:40
And as a matter in fact, in ancient Israel, puberty was
2:15:43
assumed lower bound for marriage and not preschool.
2:15:45
OK, so I, I know what you're doing.
2:15:48
And, and it's not because you're trying to do it on purpose near,
2:15:50
it's because you're literally repeating things that you've
2:15:53
heard right or things that you've read and they're
2:15:56
presenting them as fact. But then they're not telling you
2:15:59
that this is actually something that was thought of or something
2:16:03
that was put forth that was immediately rejected.
2:16:05
That's the part that they're leaving out.
2:16:06
They're not actually telling you the truth because we have
2:16:09
already, for the last, I don't know how long I've been talking
2:16:11
about Rebecca's age. And I haven't given you any
2:16:13
number of historical documents and scholars that I've said that
2:16:16
Rebecca wasn't even close to three years old.
2:16:18
Because again, the Bible makes it clear that Rebecca was
2:16:22
already an age of a young woman who was carrying gallons of
2:16:25
water back and forth. Do you know any 3 year old that
2:16:27
can carry gallons of water back and forth?
2:16:28
Because I don't. I've never met one.
2:16:30
I don't neither I I personally from my perspective, and I could
2:16:35
be wrong, but it almost sounds like we're trying to make an
2:16:38
argument on why it was OK for Muhammad to hook up with little.
2:16:42
Girl, and that's exactly it and that's and near we have spent so
2:16:45
much time talking about fair of a Pharisee law.
2:16:48
We were talking about Moses. We were talking about you know
2:16:51
what, the things that we have already established that we're
2:16:54
not true, right. So now that we have established
2:16:56
these things are not true, I'm going to ask you again, why
2:17:01
would anyone? We have already established
2:17:03
biblically that the Bible does not allow for men, especially
2:17:08
grown crusty old men like Muhammad, to be marrying little
2:17:11
girls. So how could you look at Jesus
2:17:14
Christ and think that Muhammad is even worth being mentioned in
2:17:20
the same sentence as him when you have one who was literally
2:17:23
sinless, which was even admitted to by his enemies?
2:17:26
And then you have the other one who decided that it was a good
2:17:29
idea for a man who was 53 years old, minimal, minimal 53 years
2:17:34
old and consummated a marriage when he was 56 years old with a
2:17:39
nine year old girl. Do you understand what I'm
2:17:43
saying? Like we, we, I asked you this
2:17:45
question and then you kind of did what, what, what, what
2:17:47
typical, you know, Islamic apologetics do.
2:17:50
And they try to go to Rebecca. Now I have proven to you beyond
2:17:53
a shadow of a doubt that Rebecca was not three years old, right?
2:17:56
Mary was not 11 or 10 or 12 or 9 or whatever it is that other
2:18:00
people try to say. That has been proven by history
2:18:03
time and time and time again. So I will no longer allow this
2:18:07
to delve back to the Bible because we have defended the
2:18:10
Bible and we have done so successfully.
2:18:12
We have done so historically. We have done so biblically, We
2:18:16
have done so archaeologically, We have done so culturally, We
2:18:19
have done so temporally. So now that I have explained all
2:18:24
of that, why do we think that the Prophet Muhammad that you
2:18:28
call as a prophet that I don't think is a prophet was justified
2:18:32
in taking advantage of a girl that in the hadith?
2:18:34
So I know you don't acknowledge A hadith, but why do we think
2:18:38
that a man who married a little girl who in the hadith that she
2:18:42
wrote or attested to, I don't know if she wrote them or or
2:18:44
dictated them. It doesn't matter because to me
2:18:46
that's not how history works. She could have either written
2:18:48
them herself or she could have dictated and somebody else
2:18:50
written them. To me, it's the same thing.
2:18:52
At the end of the day, what I care about is how is it OK that
2:18:56
Muslims say that Muhammad did that to a little girl?
2:19:00
Maverick, while we're getting into that, may I share a couple
2:19:05
of the laws that they had in the Bible?
2:19:07
Please do. I'm gonna take a potty break
2:19:10
while you share those because I got to use it anyway so there's
2:19:11
a perfect time. Oh, I was hoping you'd be able
2:19:14
to hear some. Yeah, I'll rush.
2:19:15
I'm going to rush back. It ain't going to be that.
2:19:17
Long. All right, I'll wait a moment
2:19:20
for you. So nerve, was that what you were
2:19:24
trying to do? You were trying to say because
2:19:26
of some of the stuff in the Bible that to give Muhammad a
2:19:30
pass on it? Because that's how what I was
2:19:33
feeling on it. Well, if, if, if you want me to
2:19:36
explain it right, So to me, right, If, if you ask me, is it,
2:19:40
is it fine to marry a six year old or a nine year old, right.
2:19:43
I would disagree. I I think more or less.
2:19:46
Why would you disagree for it? Why would I disagree that
2:19:50
marrying a six year old or a nine year old is bad?
2:19:53
Yes. Why, according to your moral
2:19:55
framework, you find that to be bad or wrong?
2:20:00
Because there's a very large power dynamic between the two of
2:20:03
you, right? If you're 6 or 9, you're not
2:20:06
going to know much, right? You're going to be very easily,
2:20:10
you know, able to be manipulated, which wouldn't
2:20:14
happen if you were, let's say, 18 or 20.
2:20:18
Then you agree on a psychological level, a person
2:20:22
that is that young isn't able to make responsible decisions.
2:20:26
Of course, yes. OK.
2:20:28
Just making sure on that. Yeah.
2:20:31
Does it bother you whenever people bring this kind of stuff
2:20:35
up about Muhammad? Well, me personally, it doesn't
2:20:39
really bother me, right? People can say whatever they
2:20:42
want, right? Everyone is entitled to their
2:20:45
own opinion, right? If if someone thinks I'm
2:20:47
Mohammed was a pedophile, you know they're free to think that,
2:20:50
right? And I would, I would say that
2:20:54
that's even what the Hadith said, right?
2:20:55
If someone marries a six year old right, that would make them
2:20:58
a pedophile. Well, fair enough.
2:21:00
I appreciate you pointing it out that on a psychological level it
2:21:04
would be objectively wrong in your moral framework.
2:21:07
So that's good. We're getting somewhere.
2:21:10
Now, if you don't mind, I'd like to share with you some of the
2:21:12
marriage laws that even the Pharisees themself had.
2:21:15
Are you guys ready? I'm going to be.
2:21:18
Way to go dude. Take your time dog.
2:21:19
I'm going to take notes. All right, so betrothal marriage
2:21:25
began with a formal betrothal, a legally binding agreement, often
2:21:29
involving a contract outlining the groom's obligations.
2:21:34
Betrothal could last A2 year, during which the couple was
2:21:37
committed but not yet cohabitating.
2:21:40
Consent. While parental arrangement was
2:21:42
common, the bride's consent was generally required.
2:21:47
So right there, I want you all to think about this as we're the
2:21:51
Muslims. They'll grab a girl and even if
2:21:54
she's crying and begging not to be in this, it doesn't matter
2:21:58
what she thinks are her consent, she'll be taken into it no
2:22:01
matter if she likes it or not. But even the Pharisees believe
2:22:05
that the person had to consent to the marriage.
2:22:09
Do you understand the power dynamic to that?
2:22:13
Yep, I do. OK, now that's that was one of
2:22:18
the more important parts as far as divorce goes in case
2:22:22
anybody's interested permitted under Mosaic law, typically
2:22:26
initiated by the husband for reasons like infidelity or
2:22:30
failure to fulfill marital duties.
2:22:33
Deuteronomy 24 one the Pharisees debated grounds for divorce with
2:22:37
the school of Shami being stricter infidelity.
2:22:43
So basically, if your person, your spouse is committing
2:22:46
adultery, then you have a right to be able to talk it out and
2:22:50
and figure out what you're going to do with that.
2:22:53
So there you go. There's no, there's no grooming
2:22:57
and forcing people into things. Contracts have to be done.
2:23:01
The parents have to agree the child are are not child, but
2:23:04
young adult has to actually agree in the process.
2:23:08
And they do. I do believe that they have some
2:23:10
kind of age of consent in there. So there you go.
2:23:15
That's some of the important parts there.
2:23:18
Yeah. Well, thank you.
2:23:20
Thank you for that, Brett. That's very informative.
2:23:24
It's all that. So I want to go over a little
2:23:29
bit of what Brett said. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah.
2:23:35
I mean, you, you guys can look at what, what he said and you'd
2:23:42
have to do it independently if anybody was writing it down
2:23:44
about betrothal, about the, the age of marriage.
2:23:47
And again, the Bible does talk about that, right?
2:23:53
Yeah. And, and Jewish law, the, the
2:23:54
halaqa has always recognized marriage as a contractual
2:23:58
agreement and consent from the woman was required.
2:24:01
And you can refer that to that guys from the Talmud Kidushin to
2:24:05
a a woman is acquired in marriage with her consent,
2:24:08
right? And he did talk about
2:24:10
Deuteronomy chapter 22, verses 28 and 29.
2:24:13
I was looking up the things that he was talking about them talks
2:24:15
about a man who seduces or violates a virgin.
2:24:18
But this is more about restitution laws, not a model of
2:24:21
ethical marriage. Pharisaic Judaism interpreted
2:24:25
marriage laws with increasing attention to mutual consent and
2:24:29
legal procedure. And again, you can look at the
2:24:31
Talmud Ki Dushin 2A everyday holiness, the Jewish spiritual
2:24:37
path of Moussaar from Alan Marinas.
2:24:41
So the conclusion? Yes, Pharisaic Judaism did
2:24:44
uphold the need for consent. The statement is correct in
2:24:48
context every single day. There you go and notice that if
2:24:54
the parents disagree and they don't want their daughter to or
2:24:58
boy to young adult, whatever the case may be, to get married,
2:25:02
they can say no and they don't have to worry about getting
2:25:04
stoned or beaten up over it with sticks or anything like that.
2:25:09
And anybody who tries to say that the Bible is barbaric
2:25:11
because of the way that people were treated or women were
2:25:13
treated are just, you know, intellectually dishonest people
2:25:16
who've actually never looked at the Bible or what it says or
2:25:18
looked at the historical context or the culture at the time and
2:25:22
how things were working. Brett also made a claim about
2:25:25
divorce under Mosaic law being permitted by the husband based
2:25:29
on Deuteronomy 24 one, which is again, 100% accurate.
2:25:34
Deuteronomy 24 one makes it clear when a man has taken a
2:25:37
wife and married her and it comes to pass that she find no
2:25:41
favor in his eyes, then let him write her a bill of divorce.
2:25:46
Now the Pharisees did debate the grounds for divorce.
2:25:49
The Shamai school, which is conservative, is only for
2:25:52
serious sexual immorality, and the Jaleo school, the liberal
2:25:56
one, even for minor offenses like burning a meal.
2:25:59
So, but there was grounds for divorce.
2:26:03
I definitely would stick with the conservative one, guys.
2:26:05
But you know that the point is that what He was saying is 100%
2:26:08
true. Now Jesus does comment on that,
2:26:10
which I did want to follow up with guys.
2:26:13
Jesus comments on this in Matthew 19 verses 329 where he
2:26:17
sides against the loose interpretation and emphasizes
2:26:20
the sanctity of marriage sources again Deuteronomy 24 one and
2:26:24
Matthew 19 the Jewish Annotated New Testament by Amy Jill Levine
2:26:29
and Mark Zavi Brettler. The conclusion is that it is
2:26:33
historically and scripturally accurate.
2:26:36
Brother Brett also talked about there being no grooming or
2:26:38
forced contracts in ancient Judaism and there were age and
2:26:43
consent boundaries and this is accurate for Judaism in
2:26:47
principle and there was some nuance to it.
2:26:49
The contracts had to be made with the father's involvement,
2:26:52
especially in ancient Israel, but the girls consent was still
2:26:55
required in practice, especially during the rabbinic era.
2:26:59
So that just goes to show there was even 2 the the woman had to
2:27:02
agree and her father still had to agree, right?
2:27:04
Which actually makes it even more hurtful to any Muslim
2:27:06
argument that makes it seem like, you know, women were just
2:27:09
treated the same way that they were in the nation in in in
2:27:11
Islam. This is probably one of the
2:27:14
reasons too, Maverick, why nowadays we hear people say,
2:27:17
well, I got to get my father and mother's blessing.
2:27:20
Yep. Yeah, because it's traditional,
2:27:23
although it is not legal as it was at that time, right.
2:27:26
But the contracts had to be made with the father's involvement,
2:27:29
especially in ancient Israel, but the girls consent was
2:27:31
required. Right now the term young adult
2:27:34
is a better term, although betrothal could occur before in
2:27:38
ancient times. Talmudic law differentiates
2:27:41
Cortana minor under 12 1/2 could be betrothed by the father,
2:27:45
could be Nah Nah, 12 1/2 and older, more autonomy and ability
2:27:51
to refuse. So there were there were
2:27:56
historically, although not biblically in the in, in Israel
2:28:00
times where you could do that. I don't see any examples in the
2:28:03
Bible. But to be completely transparent
2:28:06
with you guys, the Father could do that if he so chose to.
2:28:10
But then again, you'd have to find the man who was willing to
2:28:13
do that, which, good luck. So the conclusion While child
2:28:17
betrothals existed in ancient Judaism, like in many ancient
2:28:20
cultures, the notion of coercive grooming is not compatible with
2:28:24
the legal teachings of the Pharisees or little rabbis.
2:28:27
Right, So. Something to think about though,
2:28:30
Maverick, Even if the father says that he's a OK with that,
2:28:34
he's got some kind of weird problems with his brain and
2:28:36
decides that the person who's getting married has to consent
2:28:41
as well, which is totally different than Islam.
2:28:44
Yep, exactly true. So brother near.
2:28:47
Did you have anything else, my man?
2:28:50
Well, yeah, we were talking about why, why like what defense
2:28:55
could I put up for Mohammed marrying a nine year old, right.
2:28:58
Yeah, for sure. Well, the the defense wouldn't
2:29:01
be about kind of defense of marrying a nine year old.
2:29:03
Obviously that's that's that's. I'll be a stupid of me to argue
2:29:07
for this, right? Well, you already said it was
2:29:10
morally wrong when you and I were having a conversation and
2:29:14
brother Maverick was taking a snack break.
2:29:17
No, I was using the bathroom. I know like.
2:29:22
But go ahead brother, to your vote.
2:29:23
So what was the point you were going to?
2:29:25
Make so I I hold to the view, right, that she may have been 17
2:29:30
or 18, right? And that's mostly based on her
2:29:34
sister's age, right? So it's, it's been stated that
2:29:38
she's 10 years older than Aisha, right?
2:29:41
And she died at the age 100, right?
2:29:44
And you're 73 after the hijra, right?
2:29:47
So if that's the case, that would make her 17 or 18 at the
2:29:53
time of consummation. So that's mostly how I patch it
2:29:57
back up. So then why in the hadith would
2:29:59
she have written that she was still at the age of playing with
2:30:02
dolls when she was with the Prophet?
2:30:06
Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I don't really trust
2:30:09
hadiths, right? I don't really think they're
2:30:11
attentive, right? And obviously the one about her
2:30:14
sister being 100 when she died could be, you know, wrong.
2:30:18
And the one. I mean, I understand brother
2:30:21
Near that you don't want to look at the hadith because they do
2:30:24
admit a lot of things that you would not normally want to admit
2:30:27
to. But you have to understand that
2:30:29
the hadiths have been have been historically verified.
2:30:33
Like, for example, when we talk about Khalif Uthman, Khalif
2:30:36
Uthman burning so many manuscripts that were different
2:30:40
from what he thought the Quran should say, those are
2:30:43
historically verified. So the things that we're talking
2:30:45
about, it's not the that the hadiths just saying things for
2:30:49
the sake of saying these are historically verified things.
2:30:51
And it's unfortunate because they they so fervently expose
2:30:57
the Quran for what it is. Right?
2:30:59
But the entirety of the Aisha being 17 or 18 theory is
2:31:03
literally a modern revisionist defense tactic.
2:31:06
And it is not what the earliest Islamic sources say.
2:31:09
And it is not what the vast majority of classical Islamic
2:31:12
scholars even agreed upon. And the primary source evidence
2:31:16
from Sahi Boukhadi is crystal clear.
2:31:18
Sahi al Bukhadi 5134 was narrated by Aisha herself.
2:31:23
And this is something that to me, me, you would think that you
2:31:25
would at least respect, regardless of the fact that you
2:31:27
don't want to look at the hadith, right?
2:31:31
But in her words, it says the Prophet married me when I was
2:31:33
six years old and consummated the marriage with me when I was
2:31:36
nine years old. That's Aisha's own reported
2:31:39
words, verified in the most authoritative hadith collection
2:31:42
in Sunni Islam. And this narration is repeated
2:31:45
multiple times, not just once, right?
2:31:48
So that brings me to my next point that no early Islamic
2:31:51
historian claimed that she was ever 17 or 18, right?
2:31:54
Not Ibani Shock didn't say that, Ibani Sham didn't say that and
2:31:58
Tabadi didn't say that. As a matter of fact, Al Tabadi
2:32:01
even confirms and said quote, she was married to the Prophet
2:32:05
when she was 6 and the marriage was consummated when she was 9.
2:32:09
Now you can reference what is this book called Tariq Al Tabadi
2:32:13
volume 9 right? The so then you made a point
2:32:16
about the 100 years old sister argument.
2:32:19
That argument is, is is very flimsy and misleading.
2:32:22
And I'm going to tell you why Ozma, who was Aisha's sister.
2:32:26
So Ozma bint Abibakar, right? Am I saying that right?
2:32:30
OK is said to have been 10 years older than Aisha.
2:32:34
She died in 73AD, reportedly at the age of 100 or, or, AH,
2:32:40
whatever it is that that Muslims use, reportedly at the age of
2:32:43
100. But if she was actually 100
2:32:46
lunar years old, which was typical for Islamic record
2:32:49
keeping, that would be about 97 actual years old.
2:32:53
So that's only a difference of about three years right?
2:32:55
Now, that's far from a perfect anchor point, because the lunar
2:32:59
year only uses a few days less every single year than the
2:33:03
typical Gregorian calendar. OK yes So if you actually
2:33:08
calculate that in a term of a century, you're only missing
2:33:11
about three years, which means that still the same age.
2:33:13
OK so when you look at so if you look more importantly though, at
2:33:19
the age at death reports and medieval texts often include
2:33:23
rounding, exaggeration, inflation, especially for
2:33:27
respected figures. OK so using her estimated age to
2:33:31
back to to like to basically calculate Aisha's age was what
2:33:34
you were trying to do. It ignores direct narrations
2:33:38
from Aisha herself, right? That's like throwing out
2:33:40
eyewitness testimony because someone heard a rumor from their
2:33:43
cousin's uncle. It makes absolutely no sense.
2:33:45
You have direct documentation and narration and dictation from
2:33:49
the girl herself. But because of modern times and
2:33:51
because of how the fact that people are now more willing to
2:33:54
expose that depravity for what it is now, people are trying to
2:33:57
throw out these modern Muslim apologetic defenses which are
2:34:01
failing 100%. So if you look at all four major
2:34:06
Sunni madhabs accepted, they all accepted the age of 6 at
2:34:12
marriage and Nina Consummation, they all accepted that, right?
2:34:15
So you're talking about Imam Malik, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam
2:34:19
Shafi Shafa Ill and Imam Ahmad Iban Hanbal.
2:34:23
They all have said yes, she was 6 and consummated at 9:00.
2:34:28
We have verified that historically.
2:34:30
There is no problem with that. They think it is what it is.
2:34:32
The prophet can do whatever he wants.
2:34:34
I obviously disagree, but you know what?
2:34:36
They didn't bat an eye on it. But why they didn't bat an eye
2:34:38
on it? They didn't care because it was
2:34:40
common knowledge in their time and the context of the 7th
2:34:44
century Arabia was different. They didn't feel the need to
2:34:46
revise history to appease modern sensibilities.
2:34:49
And that's essentially what you're doing, brother.
2:34:51
Never. You're trying to appease modern
2:34:52
sensibilities because we are looking back at it and saying
2:34:55
that was disgusting, something that didn't happen in the Bible,
2:34:58
even though people try to say otherwise.
2:35:00
Then we use history to prove otherwise.
2:35:02
And then we go back to the Quran and say, now explain this again.
2:35:04
Now that we have successfully gotten you off of us, you're not
2:35:07
going to put us on our heels. We're showing you that what
2:35:10
you're trying to do is revision U.S. history.
2:35:12
It was wrong. Even the Bible knew it was
2:35:14
wrong, even in the, even though they were in the same culture,
2:35:16
funnily enough, people in the Bible in that culture back then,
2:35:20
which was 76 to 650 years before this event occurred, right?
2:35:25
Let's just say in a conservative number, let's say 625 years, 625
2:35:30
years during the time of the New Testament.
2:35:31
This was something that they already knew was something that
2:35:34
was considered detestable behavior.
2:35:35
People who followed Yahweh, people who followed the Messiah,
2:35:38
and yet for some reason people who followed Muhammad did not
2:35:41
know that this was behavior that was detestable and still to this
2:35:45
day tries to defend it. So I understand what you're
2:35:48
trying to do. You're trying to use the lunar
2:35:50
year thing. But that is something that
2:35:51
actually has been debunked very hard because lunar years don't
2:35:55
change the way age is calculated, right?
2:35:57
You're saying 17 to 18 years old.
2:35:59
There's no way that even from the ancient Islamic calendar of
2:36:03
the lunar years doesn't mean a thing because you're only coming
2:36:06
out 11 days 10-9 to 11 days short per year.
2:36:10
You would have to go for about 1000 years before you even have
2:36:14
years that make a difference before you have the amount of
2:36:16
years that make a difference. If if her sister was 100 years
2:36:19
old in lunar years, then that means she was 97 years old in
2:36:22
regular years. So you're talking about a
2:36:23
difference of three years. There's no way that Aisha being
2:36:26
6IN lunar years would skip her all the way up 11 years when a
2:36:30
full century only gets you three years.
2:36:32
The math ain't math. And dog, the math ain't math.
2:36:36
Well, I mean, the, the, the main claim wasn't really about the
2:36:39
lunar year, right? It was mostly about her being
2:36:42
100 years old, right? In, in 73 Azure, right.
2:36:47
And I think if you convert that to the Gregorian calendar, that
2:36:50
would be 692, right? No, the year 692.
2:36:57
Well, we're not talking about the year itself.
2:36:59
We're talking about the fact that you're stating that you
2:37:02
were trying to calculate Aisha's age based off of her sister,
2:37:05
right? So even if her sister died at
2:37:08
100 years old, what I'm trying to explain to you is that using
2:37:12
the using the aging methodology at that time would only have
2:37:17
made it to where a person who lived the full century, 100 even
2:37:21
years according to our calendar, according to I'm sorry,
2:37:25
according to if they live 97 years, that would be 100 years
2:37:28
according to the ancient Muslim calendar.
2:37:30
Now that doesn't hurt. That doesn't help you.
2:37:33
That actually hurts you because as you move back, the number
2:37:36
gets smaller and smaller, right? So if you talk about well here,
2:37:40
let's look it up. I will look it up for you right
2:37:42
here, right? Let's check this out.
2:37:46
If Aisha was six years old according to the original Muslim
2:37:56
calendar, does that mean she could have been?
2:38:02
Wait, what? What?
2:38:03
What was your claim that how old was she?
2:38:04
1717 or 1817 to 18 years of age actually.
2:38:19
I looked up on my AI and she speaks from her own words and
2:38:23
she was 6 and then nine. Yeah, through confirmation.
2:38:26
So yeah, I go with the horse's mouth on it.
2:38:30
So do I, but also when I looked up I'm and I'm not even looking
2:38:32
up what Aisha said anymore because I made my, my, I made my
2:38:35
stands completely clear on that. But when you look up here, it
2:38:38
says, no, absolutely not. The argument that Aisha was six
2:38:41
years old according to the original Muslim lunar calendar
2:38:43
and therefore might have been 17 or 18 the real age, is
2:38:45
completely false. And here's a breakdown of why
2:38:48
the lunar versus the solar year excuse has been debunked.
2:38:52
Muslims sometimes try to soften the blow by claiming Aisha was 6
2:38:56
lunar years old, which is only about 5.8 solar years.
2:38:58
So maybe she was actually older than we think.
2:39:01
But this works in the wrong direction.
2:39:03
Lunar years are shorter, not longer.
2:39:06
And here's the math. 1 lunar year is 354 days.
2:39:09
One solar year is 365.25 days. So 6 lunar years is about 5.84
2:39:16
solar years. 9 lunar years, which is her age at
2:39:19
consummation, is about 8.5 solar years.
2:39:22
That makes her even younger, not older.
2:39:26
So by today's standards, not only was she not even 9 years
2:39:30
old, she was probably 7 or 8 years old according to the
2:39:33
standards that you are putting forth.
2:39:35
So the more that you guys try to make this claim, the crazier it
2:39:38
makes it right? Because you guys continue to
2:39:41
say, well what about the the claim that she was actually 17
2:39:44
or 18? Now your question flips the
2:39:46
script because if she was said to be 6 lunar years old, could
2:39:50
she actually have been 17 or 18 in some other reckoning?
2:39:54
Absolutely not. That would require adding over a
2:39:57
decade of I'm somehow being misunderstood, which is a
2:40:00
complete historical absurdity. And I'm going to be completely
2:40:03
blunt. The original narrations of Sahi
2:40:05
Abu Qadi, Sahi Muslim explicitly state her age.
2:40:10
A quote. The Prophet married Aisha when
2:40:12
she was 6 and consummated the marriage when she was nine.
2:40:15
That is from Sahi Abu Qadi 5134. The Muslims use the lunar
2:40:20
calendar consistently, but that only shaves off a few days per
2:40:25
year, not over 11 years. OK, so no historical source from
2:40:30
early Islam ever suggests that Aisha was 17 or 18.
2:40:34
That theory was invented recently by modern Muslim
2:40:37
apologists who are trying basically to do like a public
2:40:40
relations cleanup and trying to defend what they're what they
2:40:43
the person did that they call it they a prophet.
2:40:46
Right, but the 17 to 18 years old theory usually tries to
2:40:51
connect Aisha's age to her sister Asma, which is what you
2:40:54
tried to do who was allegedly 10 years older and died at 100
2:40:58
years old. But that is built on weak
2:41:00
historical links and requires ignoring the hadith.
2:41:04
Assuming ages at death are exact and they were not, and assuming
2:41:08
birth order equates exact age difference, which there is
2:41:11
absolutely no historical proof of.
2:41:13
That's actually called retroactive damage control and
2:41:16
not a historical argument. So the conclusion no matter how
2:41:19
you look at her brother Nirv is absolutely not.
2:41:21
Aisha was not 17 to 18. She was actually 6 lunar years
2:41:26
old at marriage, 9 at consummation.
2:41:29
That's the position of every major Islamic source, Ibad
2:41:32
Hisham, Ibad Saad, Bakuri and Muslim Tabadi and so on.
2:41:37
You can't revise that without throwing out the entire hadith
2:41:40
tradition, which I understand that you don't respect.
2:41:43
But at the end of the day, the hadith are very historically
2:41:46
accurate about how and what happened in the Quran and how it
2:41:50
was canonized. And it's exactly why we know the
2:41:52
Quran, from its very conception, was not the word of God and is
2:41:56
very shady in the way that it was canonized by Khalif Uthman.
2:41:59
Maverick, you mind if I also make what is referred to the
2:42:02
common sense argument? Nope, you go ahead please.
2:42:06
The common sense here is I believe that Muslims know
2:42:10
exactly what the deal is on this topic.
2:42:13
I think they know 100% and why. I know this for a fact, we see
2:42:19
child brides all the time in our modern times due to Muslims.
2:42:23
If it weren't true, then why are they doing it?
2:42:26
Yep, so true. So true.
2:42:29
As a matter of fact, I met a guy and this guy was honestly one of
2:42:34
the nicest guys that I ever met. His name, I'm not going to say
2:42:38
his name. He was a neighbor of mine in a
2:42:39
in another place that I lived a very long time ago IA very long
2:42:43
time ago. I would say probably closer to
2:42:45
15 years now. And when I met this man, he was
2:42:49
a Middle Eastern man from Jordan.
2:42:51
His wife was a younger looking girl.
2:42:55
But you know, didn't it didn't it didn't strike me as anything
2:42:58
abnormal, right? Well, he ended up telling me
2:43:01
later on now, and I have this question for you near.
2:43:03
If this is a question directly, it's going to be directed
2:43:06
completely at you. All right.
2:43:08
This man told me that in Jordan, where he was from, that a guy
2:43:15
who was in his mid 30s to early 40s will only marry a female who
2:43:20
is between the ages of 11 to 13. Because if they're older than
2:43:26
1314 years old, they're already considered way too old and no
2:43:30
man is going to want them. So I want you to think about
2:43:33
that. Traditionally that these little
2:43:36
girls are being picked by men who are decades older than them,
2:43:41
right? And then said that that's very
2:43:43
normal for over there. That's that that's the way that
2:43:45
it's supposed to be. You want a a little girl?
2:43:47
You know what he told me? Because we want to get them when
2:43:50
we can still make sure that they do things the way that the man
2:43:53
wants and not the way that they have been taught by anybody
2:43:56
else. So they want a little girl who
2:44:00
is barely even understanding what life is, who's going to be
2:44:03
married to a man who is at minimum 35 years of age, married
2:44:06
to a 12 year old, OK, Married to an 11 year old.
2:44:09
Disgusting. And then you know what he told
2:44:11
me? But we always want a better life
2:44:14
in America, but we have to make sure that we don't come until
2:44:17
after they're a certain age because we don't want to be
2:44:19
arrested. And I was like, holy crap.
2:44:22
So these guys know that what they're doing is wrong.
2:44:25
They just choose to make sure that they seek a better life
2:44:29
after a certain time because although they know that there's
2:44:33
something morally reprehensible about what they're doing,
2:44:35
they're still going to do it. And I'll just stay in my country
2:44:37
until she's old enough. When when when I saw when he
2:44:40
told me that I was like, that is disgusting to to to sit there
2:44:46
and act like that is such a normal thing.
2:44:48
When I told him that my wife and I met when we were in our early
2:44:51
20s. He looked like he wanted to
2:44:53
throw up. He was like a guy would never
2:44:56
get married to a girl in her 20s because she's too old.
2:44:59
A girl in her 20s to a guy from Jordan is too old.
2:45:06
Yeah, well, I, I can, I can respond to that, right by giving
2:45:09
like a bit of background as to why people think that way,
2:45:13
right. At least in Morocco, right.
2:45:15
We still have this, you know, like thing where all the men go
2:45:20
out to villages, right? They can't do it in a normal
2:45:22
state, right? Because obviously their, their
2:45:24
parents are not going to want that.
2:45:26
So they go to places where people are really uneducated and
2:45:29
stuff like that, right. And they, they ask for their
2:45:33
children, right. Usually like 9/10/12, right?
2:45:38
And I actually know a person that has done that, right?
2:45:41
He's a he's an old man. And I asked him, shut up.
2:45:44
Like why do you do that? Right, OK.
2:45:47
And his argument was that he doesn't want a girl.
2:45:51
That was, I mean the word he said is used by someone else.
2:45:58
So you need to get. So you're saying that the you're
2:46:04
saying that the argument behind that is that you want to get
2:46:07
them as young as possible because they're so So you're
2:46:10
telling me that you can't find a girl who is 17/18/19 years old,
2:46:13
20 years old, who's not been used by someone else?
2:46:17
Yeah, the they claim that it's, it's, it's impossible for like
2:46:21
they say that for example, like if if someone grows up and let's
2:46:26
say in a city, right, they go to school, they're 1516, they, they
2:46:30
might date someone and they might do something with that.
2:46:32
And that's unacceptable to them. So that's the reason most of
2:46:35
these guys go for young girls, because they can raise them up
2:46:37
and make sure that no one has been with them.
2:46:40
Near what? I'm sorry brother, but what you
2:46:42
are describing is deeply troubling, and not just
2:46:45
socially, but ethically OK. When grown men deliberately seek
2:46:50
out isolated or undereducated villages to find very young
2:46:54
girls at the age of 9:10, 11-12 years old for marriage.
2:46:58
They're not practicing tradition.
2:47:00
They're taking advantage of vulnerability.
2:47:02
And I'm going to be abundantly clear with you, OK?
2:47:05
That's not cultural. That is calculated predatory
2:47:08
behavior. The fact that this can't be done
2:47:11
openly in cities shows that people recognize it as
2:47:15
unacceptable. So instead, these men go to
2:47:17
places where they assume the parents won't resist or no
2:47:21
better. And that's not honorable.
2:47:23
That's manipulative, I'm sorry. And the reasoning behind it is
2:47:26
morally flawed. When somebody says, I want a
2:47:29
girl who hasn't been with anyone, they're not speaking
2:47:31
from a place of moral conviction.
2:47:33
They're reducing a person, often a child, to an object defined by
2:47:38
inexperience. And that's not purity.
2:47:40
That's literal dehumanization. OK.
2:47:42
And there's no justification in faith for this.
2:47:45
In biblical ethics, marriage is about love, mutual respect and
2:47:49
consent and not control. Jesus didn't treat women as
2:47:53
property or tools or male desires.
2:47:55
He elevated their dignity right here.
2:47:57
This is this is exactly why I continue to say what I say.
2:48:00
The further our conversation goes, the higher Jesus goes and
2:48:03
the lower Muhammad goes. OK, Jesus elevated the dignity
2:48:07
of women. He rebuked power structures that
2:48:09
oppress the vulnerable, as you can read in Matthew 23 four.
2:48:13
And he warned severely against having children and Matthew 18-6
2:48:17
and using someone's lack of education against them is not
2:48:20
wisdom. It is completely wicked.
2:48:23
Seeking out places where people are are, are, are uniformed or
2:48:26
powerless just to get what one wants is exploitation, plain and
2:48:30
simple. That's disgusting.
2:48:33
That's not just that one of the other issues.
2:48:35
There's a couple different issues here there.
2:48:39
There could be some logic in the sense that the the old predators
2:48:44
might be worried that rape gangs might get a hold of the girls
2:48:47
and stuff and then they won't be able to have that for themselves
2:48:51
#2 if any of these young females ever speak out against the man.
2:48:56
The laws are set up in such a way in Islam where they can
2:48:59
stone the child or do whatever they want and actually allow
2:49:04
abuse. So I mean, that's how they
2:49:06
become programmed. And there you don't find any of
2:49:11
this morally ethical, do you? I hope.
2:49:13
No, I don't know. I mean, most of these marriages
2:49:17
are done like they're not really lawful right there.
2:49:21
Sounds like they actually go get papers for their marriage
2:49:24
because the government doesn't allow this, right?
2:49:27
Even even if these people cite, you know, for example, the Asia
2:49:30
Hadid, right, and they can say that, oh, it's if the prophet
2:49:34
did it, then I can do it, right? It's still not accepted by the
2:49:37
government. Nuke Nuke on TikTok says the
2:49:40
same accounts can be made of Christians in the Old Testament
2:49:42
as well. Well two things with #1 you just
2:49:45
showed how the world how stupid you are because there was no
2:49:47
Christians in the Old Testament #1 #2 Christ hadn't come to
2:49:51
pass. So I don't understand how
2:49:52
Christians would do anything in the Old Testament.
2:49:53
And #3 we have spent no shorter than two hours and 49 minutes
2:49:58
and 41 sub seconds showing that there are no accounts in the
2:50:01
Bible, Old Testament or New where the the actions that were
2:50:05
taking place by Muhammad were anywhere taken in the Old
2:50:07
Testament. Now if you want to join you can
2:50:09
type in in your browser of choice cross unit dot live
2:50:11
forward slash call and I will rip your your idiotic statements
2:50:14
apart. But we literally have been here
2:50:16
for almost 3 hours proving that the Old or New Testament does
2:50:20
not, does not allow any of the things that are done in Islam or
2:50:24
done by Muhammad. So at the end of the day, nuke
2:50:26
on TikTok if you want to make idiotic comments number one, at
2:50:29
least get your terminology right #2 get your history right #3
2:50:32
have the balls to type in cross unit that live forward slash
2:50:35
call and call the show where I will take your lies apart in
2:50:38
real time and I will use history.
2:50:40
I will use archaeology. I will use any number of things
2:50:42
to pull your lies apart. So if you're going to come in
2:50:44
here copying and pasting what you read on Reddit, then do me a
2:50:47
favor and keep it moving, brother.
2:50:49
Nerv, I got another question for you.
2:50:51
Have you ever heard of the term called?
2:50:53
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
2:50:57
I've never heard that, no. What does that mean?
2:50:59
What basically means if the men can do that with little girls,
2:51:03
how can we don't hear anything about women, older women going
2:51:06
out to villages and finding young little boys?
2:51:10
Why is it only seem to be a male thing?
2:51:12
Good question. Yeah, because males mostly in in
2:51:16
Muslim communities, males are given the the authority over
2:51:20
women to do certain things. I see what can, what can what
2:51:23
can seem. Fine.
2:51:24
Even when they become women, they're nothing more than
2:51:27
property and they don't get to have the any of the same rights
2:51:31
whatsoever. That's that's awful.
2:51:35
Yeah. Well, in in the Quran at least,
2:51:40
women are not exactly equal with men, right?
2:51:43
There's always going to be a man has authority over a woman,
2:51:47
right? For example, if, if one, one
2:51:50
woman were to say, oh this, this man did this and another man
2:51:54
comes and says this man didn't do that, they're going to take
2:51:56
the man over the woman, right? Because his man, a man can not
2:52:00
only just go out and get him a little girl, but he can get a
2:52:02
few of them, his wives. But the the little girls, when
2:52:07
they grow up and become older women, they can't go out and do
2:52:10
anything like that or they'll be considered infidels.
2:52:14
Everything else, you get stoned, right?
2:52:19
Yeah. Wow.
2:52:20
And of course, they don't get to drive, so they can't escape,
2:52:23
right? Yeah.
2:52:25
Goodness gracious nerve. How?
2:52:26
How is it that you don't pull your hair out from doing all
2:52:29
these things? Well, I mean, most of the things
2:52:33
that that you said, for example, women not being able to drive,
2:52:35
that's mostly like those hardcore Sharia countries.
2:52:39
For example, I would say Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, right,
2:52:44
Morocco's more LAX on on religious rulings.
2:52:48
To women, they get to drive around there.
2:52:50
Yeah, women get to drive. They don't have to wear a hijab.
2:52:54
You see women walking out, they can go to the beach, they can
2:52:57
wear bikinis if they want to. You're still going to get odd
2:53:00
looks from people right if you do.
2:53:03
That's crazy because and and nations that have been Christian
2:53:06
for centuries, women have been doing all of those things
2:53:08
without a problem, without getting an outlook for God knows
2:53:10
how long. It's funny how that works
2:53:12
because, you know, the thing about that is that, you know,
2:53:15
when you describe him, we're looking at the contrast in the
2:53:17
order of the Bible and the Koran.
2:53:19
Nothing that you said is described in biblical order
2:53:22
ever, right? It's a complete cultural bias,
2:53:24
which of course, those cultures which are deeply rooted in in in
2:53:28
the religion of Islam, and it's been around since the fall of
2:53:31
man, without a doubt. But the Bible repeatedly,
2:53:34
repeatedly cuts through that corruption by elevating women in
2:53:36
ways that were radically countercultural and even
2:53:39
scandalous for their time, which again, is just something else
2:53:42
that elevates the Bible so far above the Quran, right.
2:53:45
And, and you can use examples like why women were chosen as
2:53:48
the first eyewitnesses for the resurrection.
2:53:50
Now, mind you, women had no legal standing back then.
2:53:53
Why would the Bible elevate women's eyewitness accounts of
2:53:56
the resurrection to something that was so important?
2:53:59
Because God, Yahweh, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
2:54:02
always elevated women and always thought that what a woman said
2:54:05
was equally as important was as what a man said, right?
2:54:09
It says in the Bible for in Luke 24, one through 3.
2:54:12
But on the first day of the week, they found the stone
2:54:14
rolled away from the tomb. The women were Mary Magdalene,
2:54:17
Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them.
2:54:21
Luke 2410. Why is that important?
2:54:23
In 1st century Jewish culture, a woman's testimony was considered
2:54:27
inadmissible in court. And yet God chose women to be
2:54:30
the very first witnesses of the resurrection, the cornerstone of
2:54:35
the Christian faith. If men were automatically more
2:54:38
credible, then why would Jesus entrust this earth shattering
2:54:41
trust to women? First, because God is not bound
2:54:46
by culture. Cultural sexism as you can find
2:54:48
running rampant inside of the Quran.
2:54:50
Now we can also talk about Deborah, who was a judge over
2:54:54
Israel and judges 4/4. It says now Deborah, a prophet,
2:54:57
the wife of Lipidoth, was judging Israel at that time.
2:55:02
She wasn't just a prophet, she was an actual judge, which means
2:55:06
she was the highest civil and spiritual authority in Israel at
2:55:10
the time. Men and women came to her for
2:55:12
judgment. She commanded Barack to go into
2:55:15
battle and when he hesitated, she told him the victory would
2:55:19
go to a woman. And it did.
2:55:21
Judges 49 in Jael. That is divine endorsement of
2:55:25
female leadership and not male exclusive authority.
2:55:28
What about Priscilla, who taught Apollos in Acts 1826?
2:55:33
Apollos began to speak boldly in the synagogue.
2:55:35
When But then. But when Priscilla and Akilah
2:55:39
heard him, they took him aside and explained the way of God
2:55:43
more accurately. Notice who's listed first?
2:55:46
Priscilla, the woman, she was not silent.
2:55:48
She corrected a powerful male preacher in doctrine and there's
2:55:52
zero rebuke from God or Paul for it.
2:55:54
And why? Because truth and authority in
2:55:57
the Kingdom are tied to obedience and not calling and
2:56:01
not simply gender. You can talk about Esther,
2:56:03
right? You can talk about how Jesus
2:56:05
affirmed and defended women constantly.
2:56:07
He defended a woman caught in adultery.
2:56:09
He sat with the Samaritan woman at the well.
2:56:11
He honored the woman who anointed him, right?
2:56:14
The final word on that again, guys, between the Bible and the
2:56:16
Quran 10 times out of 10, God's order doesn't just mean all men
2:56:21
over all women. It means mutual submission in
2:56:24
Christ, as you can find in Ephesians chapter 5, verse 21,
2:56:28
and spiritual authority based on gifting and faithfulness and not
2:56:33
chromosomes and gender. So no man's word isn't
2:56:35
automatically above a woman's. In fact, God has repeatedly
2:56:38
reversed that very assumption to expose the arrogance of fallen
2:56:42
culture. So if you want authority, submit
2:56:44
to the word of God and not the words of the world's power.
2:56:47
Power structure that pretty much masquerades as Biblical or
2:56:50
Quranic. There's I believe a Muslim out
2:56:55
in your comments that is apparently trying to defend the
2:56:58
Quran by attacking the Bible, which we're used to obviously by
2:57:02
the maverick by saying well what about women restricted to not be
2:57:06
able to preach or teach? Well egalitarians point to
2:57:09
examples of women in leadership roles in the Bible such as
2:57:12
Deborah a judge in Prophetess, Judges 4 to 5, a prophet, the
2:57:18
Second Kings 22/14/20 and Priscilla who taught Apollos
2:57:23
Acts 1826 and Phob at Deacon Rogan 16/1.
2:57:28
These women demonstrated God's approval of women's teaching and
2:57:32
leading. As far as the Paul verse, I
2:57:35
believe Paul was getting on to those particular females because
2:57:39
they were uneducated and they didn't have the authority based
2:57:43
upon what was going on at that moment to do that.
2:57:46
This wasn't a global command. Jesus says that He exists within
2:57:51
all of us and we all have this authority as disciples and
2:57:56
saying so we are equal under God to be able able to preach.
2:57:59
So sorry you lose one point for me, 0 for you.
2:58:04
Again, and not only that, but you know what?
2:58:06
You can try to do whatever you can try to do in the comment
2:58:08
section, but this is not a comment section debate.
2:58:09
If you want to make comments, at least have the intestinal
2:58:12
fortitude like Brother Nirv does, who was a Muslim man who
2:58:15
decides to come in here and try to defend his faith.
2:58:17
He has questions about the Bible.
2:58:18
He has questions about the Quran, but at the end he's
2:58:20
intellectually honest and you cannot say that you don't see
2:58:23
the graphic there. It is there on YouTube live.
2:58:25
It is there on YouTube Shorts live crossing that live forward
2:58:29
slash call. Call it to the show.
2:58:30
If you think that you have some argument against the Bible and
2:58:34
some argument that corroborates Quranic morality, you're going
2:58:38
to leave out of here crying. Yeah, so one, one last question,
2:58:45
right. For for a girl brother, my
2:58:47
regret. Sure.
2:58:48
Well, earlier today I read that for example, one verse I read
2:58:54
there were like a multitude of verses that they that they went
2:58:57
into, right? It was, I think if you've ever
2:59:01
seen the website answering Christianity, you've ever seen
2:59:04
the website. Yeah, Yeah.
2:59:06
Their claim is that. Let me get the exact first.
2:59:11
While he's getting that passage, I've been meaning to ask you,
2:59:15
Brother Maverick, are you familiar with the minister by
2:59:18
the name of Kent Hovind? Yeah, I was.
2:59:23
I don't know how you feel about him or whatever, but he's going
2:59:25
to be coming on my show on Monday and he wants to have an
2:59:29
open room to debate people about evolution and I guess the
2:59:33
cosmos, if that's something you'd be interested in
2:59:36
participating or saying hello to him if you've ever had a chance
2:59:39
to talk to him. Oh, no, I love him.
2:59:40
Hold on. I would.
2:59:41
I would. I will be there no matter what I
2:59:44
got to do unless something happens.
2:59:45
No, no, no. When are Monday?
2:59:47
7:00 PM Central. Yeah, that's tomorrow.
2:59:51
Yep. Oh yeah, I'll be there, I'll be
2:59:53
there. All right, all right, He's, he's
2:59:55
been on my show a few times. He, he loves the heck out of me
2:59:59
because I'm one of the few Christians that, well, how do I
3:00:03
put this? Some Christians feel like they
3:00:05
should just kind of let people go crazy on him.
3:00:09
And I don't do that. I'm like, you come in, you act
3:00:11
professional, ask the man questions about the Bible.
3:00:15
Don't get personal because some atheists like to bring up stupid
3:00:18
stuff of the past that doesn't even have.
3:00:21
I'm not doing the discussion and I I shut that down.
3:00:24
Oh, yeah. Well, yeah.
3:00:24
Well, that's the thing too, is that I, I, I actually had that
3:00:26
conversation with Deconstruction Bonehead on my show where I was
3:00:31
bringing up some things that Ken Hovine had said.
3:00:34
And I made it clear to him, I'm like, I'm not interested.
3:00:36
First of all, what Ken Hovine's been accused of, whatever he's
3:00:39
been accused of, or he has a record, I don't care, because we
3:00:42
can sit here and we can talk about a lot of the scummy things
3:00:44
that atheists have done, and you won't want to talk about that.
3:00:47
So I'm not, that's The thing is that they don't like that they
3:00:51
can argue against the the argument.
3:00:54
They they cannot refute the things that he says.
3:00:57
They have no credible way to refute anything that he says.
3:01:00
So what they want to do is they want to try to attack his
3:01:02
character because they're a bunch of spineless cowards who
3:01:04
have no other way to attack him other than in a personal manner
3:01:07
like what he did in the past. I don't care because I'm not
3:01:10
perfect there. There's things that I've done
3:01:12
that I'm not proud of. I'm sure there's things you've
3:01:13
done that you're not proud of. And even whether they're true or
3:01:15
not, that's not what the discussion is, right?
3:01:18
Because unless every atheist in the world can sit there and say
3:01:21
that they've never committed a crime or they've never committed
3:01:24
a sin, I don't give a damn what they say about Kent Hovine.
3:01:26
And I'll be the first one to tell him that tomorrow if anyone
3:01:28
tries to come through and try to say something stupid.
3:01:31
Well brother Maverick, if you're interested after you're done
3:01:34
talking to him, feel free to if you are up for it, you can
3:01:38
invite him up on your show a couple times if you want to.
3:01:41
He actually loves it. He enjoys it as long as he knows
3:01:45
he's not going to be, you know, growing up against the wall over
3:01:49
personal attacks and all that. He's like any Christian out
3:01:52
there. He doesn't.
3:01:52
Want to? Yeah.
3:01:53
I've been listening to him for years and years.
3:01:56
You never. Interacted though.
3:01:58
I I've never, I didn't, I never even tried to reach out to him.
3:02:00
I don't, I'm not the kind of person who thinks that people
3:02:02
will actually like listen to or, or want to come on my show.
3:02:05
I mean, I'm a nobody. I'm just here for the glory of
3:02:07
God. So I don't, you know what I
3:02:08
mean? I don't try to bother people.
3:02:10
I just try to do the best I can. And then if somebody takes
3:02:12
notice, then praise God, but I don't, I don't like to bother
3:02:14
people. I.
3:02:15
Started talking him back whenever I was formally an
3:02:18
atheist, I'd call him up because I actually respected him and all
3:02:21
that. And he would have numerous
3:02:24
conversations with me and he, he set me straight on a lot of
3:02:27
things. It was because of a lot of
3:02:29
things he said about evolution when I got out of that crap.
3:02:32
But yeah, later on when I became a Christian and all that, he
3:02:36
said, hey, I see you doing shows.
3:02:39
You want me to come on there? And I'm like, yeah, if you want
3:02:41
to, sure. I'd love to have you.
3:02:43
So I started having him up and boy, he tore atheist up left and
3:02:47
right and all that. Boy, oh boy, it's rough.
3:02:51
And he's, he's so kind and calm about it, too.
3:02:54
Yeah, for sure. I bet, man.
3:02:56
Yeah, I'm, I'm wondering, I'm going to see if there's a way if
3:02:58
I can actually stream that on my channel because that'll be cool.
3:03:01
That'll be really cool. There you go.
3:03:03
Any way I can help you with that?
3:03:05
You let me know if you can't figure out how to get it
3:03:08
streamed. You're more than welcome, as
3:03:10
always, to copy the entire thing and do what you want with it.
3:03:14
Oh, yeah, no, I'm, I'm talking about because since I go live
3:03:17
Mondays and Tuesdays anyway, I'm just thinking that I might just
3:03:20
call in and then just like pipe it all through the OBS studio
3:03:23
and there's you go with it from there.
3:03:25
You know what I mean? Not even have anybody calling my
3:03:27
show. Just kind of be live with it and
3:03:29
just kind of just be on your show and then just use, you
3:03:32
know, just broadcast stream labs as as yeah, that that'll be
3:03:37
easy. That'll be easy.
3:03:38
That won't be no problem. Well, I usually do about a 5
3:03:41
minute intro, sometimes a little bit longer than that, so that'll
3:03:45
give you an opportunity to make sure all the audio settings are
3:03:48
set up and all that. Yeah, because I know that
3:03:51
whenever I come in here, you get distracted by my awesomeness
3:03:55
and. Dude, I'm I'm glad to just not
3:03:59
be a talking head man because if you weren't here, like the only
3:04:02
thing I'd be doing is basically just playing a game and talking
3:04:06
until somebody decides to come in.
3:04:07
And and even then I would, I wouldn't even be entertaining
3:04:10
like the comment section or whatever.
3:04:11
Because I feel like the more I do that, the more people aren't
3:04:15
just going to call in. Like if you really have, if you
3:04:17
really have cojones and you want to say something and you feel
3:04:19
like you can defend your, your beliefs, then call into the
3:04:24
show. But it's just supposed to show
3:04:25
that 99.9% of people are cowards.
3:04:27
They're not going to come in. They're not going to do nothing
3:04:29
because they know they can't. They know they can't, they can't
3:04:31
withstand the test of, of, of of time.
3:04:34
Islam can't do it. Imagine that's they definitely
3:04:36
can't do it. You know, near.
3:04:40
I'm sorry. You had a question.
3:04:40
You said you had one last question.
3:04:42
Yeah, go ahead. Yes.
3:04:42
So about about first John 557, right.
3:04:48
Let me read it for you if I can. Yeah, I have too many tabs.
3:04:52
No, you're fine. So do I, I have billions of tabs
3:04:54
open. Yeah, it gets confusing
3:04:56
sometimes. Yeah.
3:04:57
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,
3:05:00
the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.
3:05:04
Yeah. The main claim against it is
3:05:07
that it doesn't show up in any Greek manuscripts before the
3:05:11
15th century. And they said that it was a
3:05:14
later edition by Trinitarian Christians.
3:05:19
They're talking about the Trinity.
3:05:22
Yes. OK, so the thing about that.
3:05:25
Favorite. Subject.
3:05:26
Yeah, I know. So let's talk about that first.
3:05:28
John 57 is a later. It says that the claim is that
3:05:32
the first John 57 is a later Trinitarian edition, not found
3:05:35
in early Greek manuscripts. The response is that yes, the
3:05:38
verse is not found in the earliest in the earliest Greek
3:05:41
manuscripts, but that does not mean it was invented later, nor
3:05:44
does it disprove the Trinity. So here's the full truth behind
3:05:47
that in context, manuscript history doesn't equal
3:05:50
theological fraud. OK, so it is true the foot it is
3:05:53
true that the full version of first John 57 for there are
3:05:57
three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the word and
3:06:00
the Holy Ghost. And these three are one does not
3:06:02
appear in the majority of Greek manuscripts before the 15th
3:06:05
century. But here's the key to that.
3:06:07
It does appear in Latin manuscripts centuries earlier,
3:06:10
including CODIS Full Densis which was from 546 AD which was
3:06:15
prepared under Victor of Kapol, Kapua, Kapua CAPUA.
3:06:21
It was also in Codex Cavendsis in the 9th century and the
3:06:25
writings of the early Latin Church Fathers.
3:06:29
Cyprian from 250AD explicitly references the Father, Son and
3:06:34
the Holy Spirit, and these three are One and Trieste 1/6.
3:06:40
The Brazilian Brazilian of Avila from 385AD quotes it almost word
3:06:46
for word. So no, it wasn't invented in the
3:06:48
1400s. It existed in the Latin
3:06:51
tradition long before it made its way into Erasmus, Greek New
3:06:55
Testament. So why Erasmus initially left it
3:06:59
out and then put it back in? Well, if you look at this,
3:07:02
Therius Erasmus, when compiling his 1516 Textus Receptus, left
3:07:07
the verse out because he didn't find it in any Greek manuscripts
3:07:11
at the time. When challenged by critics,
3:07:14
Erasmus said it would include it if a single Greek manuscript
3:07:17
contained it. Sure enough, one was produced,
3:07:20
which was the I'm going to probably butcher this guy's the
3:07:23
Codex Manta 14. OK Mont for tape Montfortianis.
3:07:30
Montfortianis. There you go.
3:07:32
Codex Montfortianis in 1520, though likely retro, translated
3:07:37
from Latin. Erasmus reinserted it in later
3:07:40
editions, which became the basis for the KJV.
3:07:43
So it wasn't a theological deceit.
3:07:46
It was textual caution and then fulfillment of a scholarly
3:07:49
promise, because it was in the Latin manuscripts, even though
3:07:52
they didn't have it in any of the Greek manuscripts.
3:07:55
But even if John, and this is where I'm really going to
3:07:58
destroy that whole argument. Even if John first John 57 were
3:08:03
removed entirely, the Trinity still stands on undeniable
3:08:06
scriptural ground. So let's just say that we right
3:08:09
now found irrefutable evidence that we had to remove first John
3:08:13
57 from the Bible. Does it mean that now the, the,
3:08:19
the concept of the Trinity is gone?
3:08:21
Well, let me hurt some people's feelings real quick.
3:08:23
Matthew chapter 28 verse 19 says baptizing them in the name of
3:08:27
the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit which was in the original
3:08:29
manuscripts. John 11 says in the beginning
3:08:32
was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
3:08:37
Second Corinthians chapter 13 verse 14 says the grace of the
3:08:41
Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the
3:08:45
Holy Spirit. Acts chapter 5 verses 3 and 4
3:08:48
says we're lying to the Holy Spirit is equated with lying to
3:08:52
God. So removing first John 57
3:08:54
doesn't collapse a Trinity, it removes one of the many that it
3:08:57
supports. And why some believe that God
3:08:59
preserved it anyway is because, As for example, the King James
3:09:02
translators believe that God had providentially preserved his
3:09:06
word not just in Greek, but through the consistent witness
3:09:09
of the church across centuries, including the Latin W where this
3:09:12
verse was cherished and quoted. So while modern critical texts
3:09:17
omit it. Texas Recidivist.
3:09:20
Texas Receptus based Bibles like the KJV include it because it
3:09:25
reflects A broader textual and theological tradition, not just
3:09:29
last minute invention. So no one Johnson, as a matter
3:09:33
of fact. Hang on,
3:09:44
I have to. Look this one.
3:09:46
Yep. So and not to mention the fact
3:09:49
that near that I want you, I want you to answer this
3:09:51
question. If the Trinity deny, if the
3:09:55
Trinity is denied by that one verse, right, and all the other
3:09:57
verses I give you, I want you to answer this verse for me.
3:10:00
Proverbs chapter 30, verse 4, which is found in all the
3:10:02
original manuscripts. Who has ascended up into heaven
3:10:06
or descended? Who has gathered the wind in his
3:10:09
fit? Oh, you know what, here, I'm
3:10:10
going to do you one better. Go on to open up a new tab and
3:10:13
type in type in Proverbs chapter 30, verse 4, Proverbs chapter
3:10:19
30, verse 4, any of the new standard languages is finding
3:10:23
new English, whatever you can read it in, and I want you to
3:10:24
read it to me. Proverbs 34 OK, who has gone up
3:10:32
to heaven and come down? Who hands have gathered up the
3:10:35
wind? Who had wrapped up the waters in
3:10:38
a cloak? Who has established all the ends
3:10:41
of the earth? What is his name and what is the
3:10:44
name of his son Bam? Baby, what is the name and what
3:10:48
is the name of his son? How are you going to answer
3:10:52
that? What is the name and what is the
3:10:55
name of his son? I've never read the proverb
3:10:58
upstairs. What?
3:10:59
Is this about exactly who has ascended up into heaven, or
3:11:06
descended? Who hath gathered the wind in
3:11:08
his fists? Who hath bound the waters in a
3:11:12
garment? Who hath established all the
3:11:16
ends of the earth? What is His name?
3:11:18
What is His name near? What is his name?
3:11:20
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
3:11:24
Oh, Jesus. Who has established all the ends
3:11:26
of the earth? If you didn't believe in Jesus
3:11:28
as God, then who has established the ends of the earth?
3:11:30
God, right? Allah.
3:11:31
God. Yahweh.
3:11:33
OK, so then why would the very next line say who has
3:11:36
established all the ends of the earth?
3:11:38
What is his name and what is his son's name?
3:11:44
Who is his son? Because Muslims don't believe
3:11:47
that he has a son. So what is his name and what is
3:11:51
his son's name? Kind of interesting for we don't
3:11:58
believe in the Trinity, huh? It's.
3:12:02
Pretty nice too, brother man. You like that at the end of the
3:12:09
day? At the end of the day, brother
3:12:11
Near. It wasn't.
3:12:12
It wasn't some vague poetic line.
3:12:13
It's a direct reference to a divine Son of God, long before
3:12:18
Jesus was born in Bethlehem, long before, many centuries
3:12:22
before anyone knew the name Christus, the Messiah, the Son,
3:12:28
the Almighty, Right? It mirrors John 313 where Jesus
3:12:32
says no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down
3:12:36
from heaven. Even the Son of man.
3:12:39
He was literally talking about himself.
3:12:41
And people just sitting there with their stupid looks on her
3:12:43
face still didn't know why. Why does this matter?
3:12:45
The verse destroys the claim that the Son of God is a New
3:12:49
Testament invention. It shows that ancient Hebrew
3:12:52
wisdom literature already hinted at a divine son distinct from
3:12:56
but one with God. Not metaphorical, not angelic,
3:13:01
but worthy of being named alongside God himself.
3:13:09
Would you say there's a difference between children of
3:13:12
God and Son of God? When they're talking about the
3:13:15
Son of God, when you're talking about we're children of God,
3:13:17
right? But we are not God, right?
3:13:19
There's a difference between the Son of God when they're
3:13:22
referencing Jesus Christ, when they're referencing the direct
3:13:26
Godhead, the Father Son, and the Holy Spirit, the one God that is
3:13:29
the three persons and talking about, yeah, I'm God's Son, but
3:13:32
I'm not Jesus Christ. I'm not part of the Godhead.
3:13:35
You're talking about two completely different things,
3:13:37
right? I see.
3:13:40
I would like to see. The most Oh man, I didn't even,
3:13:43
I didn't even know somebody else was in here.
3:13:44
I'm so sorry, brother. I'm sorry.
3:13:46
Who are we speaking to? My name is Jesus, Jesus I you
3:13:52
can call him man of the 3rd heaven.
3:13:53
I want to say the most powerful answer to the Trinity that
3:13:58
literally is scripture based. It's very that we know that the
3:14:03
way of holiness is the Trinity Isaiah 35 Con 8 and an highway
3:14:10
and a way it shall be called the way of holiness.
3:14:13
The unclean shall not Passover it, but it shall be goes the way
3:14:17
for Amen. Though fools shall not air
3:14:20
therein, as the tree of life is the chart of our universe and
3:14:27
all creation for God operates as a tree of life.
3:14:30
Jesus name is the branch. The very burning Bush that Moses
3:14:35
saw is an example of the tree of life.
3:14:38
Now if for those who practice Judaism you've heard the
3:14:41
Tennessee figure out well, these three main branches are what
3:14:45
Jesus says. I am the way and the truth and
3:14:49
the life the way which is the Son, the truth which is the
3:14:52
Spirit truth, and the life which is the Father.
3:14:55
For Scripture says Corinthians 12, Colin 6 to 16.
3:15:00
God works in different ways, but it is the same God who does work
3:15:03
in all of us. Therefore these different ways
3:15:06
are this way of holiness. The Trinity and the roots are
3:15:09
one God. Again, the whole old universe is
3:15:12
operating like a tree, planets like Saturn, the rings of it.
3:15:16
That's just an example of a root because well, it's an example of
3:15:20
a branch because branches have rings.
3:15:22
Now it says here Paul talks about in Romans 11 called 18 to
3:15:27
21 boast not against the branches, but if thou boast,
3:15:30
thou bearest not the root, but the root be thou would say then
3:15:34
the branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.
3:15:37
Well, because of unbelief they were broken off.
3:15:39
And thou standest by faith be not high minded but.
3:15:43
Fear. For if God spared not the
3:15:45
natural branches, take heed, lest he also spared not thee the
3:15:49
very tree, the very main branches, which are three
3:15:52
branches, the way, which is the sun, the truth, which is the
3:15:55
screw truth. And the life operates all God
3:15:59
operates, all creation as a tree of life.
3:16:02
And that's why you're seeing some images from astronomers.
3:16:06
They're showing what appears to be AI, but it's actually kind of
3:16:12
like branches, like a tree, because that is how God operates
3:16:15
from that astronomical level that literally debunks all
3:16:20
claims against the treaty because it proves that all
3:16:24
creation God operates like a tree.
3:16:27
And those planets, they are fruit.
3:16:29
There will be a time and a season, a time to be born and a
3:16:33
time to die. The grass Withers, the flower
3:16:35
fades, but the word of God will stand forever.
3:16:39
Now here are some very important things about the Trinity.
3:16:43
The name way for God is the way of repentance, which is Yeshua
3:16:46
the Son. For it is written Psalm 25,
3:16:50
column five. Lead me in your truth.
3:16:52
Teach me, for you are the God of my salvation.
3:16:56
For you I wait all day long. Furthermore, Psalm 38 Colin 18I
3:17:03
confess my iniquity. I am sorry for my sin.
3:17:06
Now the name truth for God is the way of the Spirit of truth,
3:17:10
the Holy Spirit, which communicates the truth to an
3:17:13
unspiritual world. For it is written in Psalm 100
3:17:17
and 145. Colin 18 The Lord is new to all
3:17:22
who call him, and to all who call him in truth.
3:17:24
And the name for life for God represents that He is the way,
3:17:28
the fountain of living water for all life, which is the Father.
3:17:31
The word will last forever. For it is written Jeremiah.
3:17:35
Jeremiah 2 column 13. For my people have committed 2
3:17:39
evils, they have abandoned me. The fountain of living water.
3:17:41
And Doug sisters and broken sisters, and holding the water
3:17:45
and Proverbs 14 column 2014, column 27.
3:17:49
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, enabling one
3:17:52
to avoid deadly chest. Thus, with the said, the way,
3:17:56
the truth and the life are the three coexistent ways of God
3:18:00
that we described in Isaiah and debunks all claims against anti
3:18:05
trinitarian accusations. Hallelujah my brother.
3:18:09
Thank you so much for sharing man, I really appreciate that.
3:18:14
Grace you too. God bless you brother for
3:18:16
continuing to share. Now, I came here along the way
3:18:19
and I'm new to this group. I just came here to say because
3:18:22
when you were discussing about the Trinity, people continue to
3:18:25
say there's no evidence for the Trinity, but the Trinity are the
3:18:29
ways of God, or as you call it, the Trinity.
3:18:33
Yep, Amen, Amen, Amen. It's so true guys, and I'm so
3:18:37
glad and that's why I didn't interrupt because I I felt I
3:18:41
felt the calling to listen to the the words of my brother
3:18:45
here, the man of the 3rd heaven. Thank you so much for coming
3:18:47
through man. I really appreciate your work,
3:18:49
your beautiful words and your insight.
3:18:50
Thank you so much. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
3:18:56
Continue, brother. Amen.
3:18:57
No, you're good, brother. Near.
3:18:59
Was there anything else you want to say?
3:19:00
Because I did want to get back to the video that I was going
3:19:03
after. We still had like 9 minutes left
3:19:05
in it. So did you have anything else
3:19:06
for us? Because I want to listen to
3:19:09
Brett thoroughly dismantle these atheists before we finish off
3:19:11
because I'm excited tomorrow on and you got to worry about what
3:19:14
I'm talking about. I'm going to talk to Can't hold
3:19:15
Vine dog. I can't believe it.
3:19:18
Yeah, I'm sorry, I won't take up more of your time.
3:19:19
I'll just Brett 1111 more question, right.
3:19:24
What is what is your argument for, for God existing?
3:19:28
The main argument, the number one I would say for the
3:19:32
existence of God. It's a good question.
3:19:37
That question was for you, Brett.
3:19:41
Oh, for me. Oh, I didn't even hear my name
3:19:44
mentioned. I'm sorry.
3:19:45
I'm still in awe of what the other person had done.
3:19:48
Amen. I'm.
3:19:49
Like wow. Well, for me I I guess I'd start
3:19:52
from the beginning. One of the most powerful
3:19:54
arguments is science itself dictates that the universe and
3:19:59
its origin is supernatural, and I believe that the only thing
3:20:03
that could define a prime mover. Or a force that doesn't have
3:20:07
infinite regression would have to be attributed to God.
3:20:11
He's the only word and the only concept in human history that
3:20:15
can actually match what is needed for our universe and life
3:20:18
in the very essence of existence to be here.
3:20:22
If you'd like me to define supernatural for you and why I
3:20:25
see The Big Bang as a supernatural climate, be more
3:20:28
than happy to go with that if you want.
3:20:32
Well, I don't want to check out more of the brother Mavericks
3:20:35
time, right? But I mean, I had this the the
3:20:38
same answer as you, you know, in a conversation once with one of
3:20:41
my friends, right? And he said that if, if you
3:20:45
know, the only explanation is that God is the first mover,
3:20:49
right, Because God is uncreated, right?
3:20:52
Why couldn't the universe also be uncreated?
3:20:56
Well, that's not what science claims.
3:20:59
I mean, people can speculate and they can imagine up stuff, but
3:21:02
what even the secular scientists are stating is that the universe
3:21:07
had a beginning, that nature, space and time came into
3:21:10
existence. If that's true, then there was a
3:21:12
point where there was no laws of nature.
3:21:15
That means that very dense little singularity they always
3:21:18
talk about had to be outside of nature.
3:21:21
That means logically outside of laws of nature because they
3:21:24
didn't exist. That would make it a
3:21:26
supernatural origin. Now you have to ask yourself,
3:21:29
OK, then what could that be? That would do something.
3:21:32
Well, first of all, it would have to be so powerful to create
3:21:36
life itself of the universe. It would be creating time, and
3:21:40
since it's before time, it lives outside of time.
3:21:44
Do you get that? Do you got all powerful?
3:21:47
You got this. And also because it's before all
3:21:50
this, it would be an extension of the universe as well-being
3:21:54
outside, as well as in being able to attribute all of its
3:21:58
sight and observation. Only thing that fits the
3:22:01
description of something that can do that is God, period.
3:22:08
So that's one of my main arguments.
3:22:12
I mean, most of the arguments that I hear are like just
3:22:16
theories, right? Some people say that, oh, you
3:22:18
know, like you need something outside time, right?
3:22:20
They say, oh, before The Big Bang, there was time, right?
3:22:23
They said that there was imaginary time.
3:22:26
Again, those are just theories though, right?
3:22:28
That's The thing is that you're going to have any number of of
3:22:30
of desperate attempts to always say, yeah, but it's it still
3:22:33
can't be God. You're you're never going to get
3:22:35
around that no matter what. Even even even if you want to
3:22:39
use science, which I don't look at a science as an end auto be
3:22:42
all because scientists are wrong all the time about almost
3:22:44
everything, right? Scientists have been wrong since
3:22:47
the beginning of science. That's why it's called science.
3:22:49
It's basically just best guess right?
3:22:51
And yet people will look at science and treat it as though
3:22:53
it is, that it has the God of it has the authority of God, which
3:22:57
to me is laughable. Because you will continue to
3:23:01
have faith in people who are wrong all the time, tell you to
3:23:04
your face that they're wrong and you're just OK with them being
3:23:06
wrong and say, OK, well, I'll just believe what you're saying
3:23:07
next. OK, I'll just believe what
3:23:08
you're saying next. But when their last theory
3:23:10
existed, you were talking about it and you were, you were
3:23:13
spewing it out there like it was the law, like it was legit.
3:23:17
Oh, but OK, Pluto was a planet. Oh, Pluto's not a planet
3:23:20
anymore. Oh, we were had global years
3:23:23
ago. A lot of people don't even
3:23:24
understand this when it comes to this climate change crap, right?
3:23:27
Decades ago, they used to say the planet was going to get too
3:23:30
cold, and then they were like, no, no, no, we were wrong and
3:23:33
the planet's going to get too hot now.
3:23:35
Then they started calling it global warming.
3:23:37
Then they realized that they were tired of being wrong.
3:23:39
So what did they start calling it?
3:23:40
Climate change. Because that's a lot more of a
3:23:42
term that's ambiguous. And you don't have to worry
3:23:44
about it being too hot or too cold.
3:23:46
You just want people to believe that the climate's going to
3:23:48
change even though it's not actually done that, as a matter
3:23:50
of fact. But the planet was a lot hotter
3:23:52
50,000 years ago, right? So they don't know what to say.
3:23:56
When I was a child in the 90s, my teacher used to swear up and
3:23:59
down that in the next 10 to 15 years it was going to be raining
3:24:02
acid outside, right? That I have.
3:24:04
I can't even begin to tell you how many things have changed.
3:24:07
I can bring you an astronomy book from from when I was in 4th
3:24:11
grade that if you read the things now, you would laugh
3:24:14
hysterically to the point of almost pissing your pants,
3:24:17
right? But as science does progress,
3:24:20
you know what they are finding? That the more they're able to
3:24:22
study things, the more that they're able to study DNA, the
3:24:26
structure of any Organism, the cell, right?
3:24:29
You know what they're finding? That it has designed everything
3:24:33
that they're looking at. They're seeing more and more, no
3:24:35
matter who tries to get away from it, that the more they're
3:24:37
looking at it, the more designed it is.
3:24:39
OK, DNA is no more arbitrarily constructed and coming together
3:24:45
through some random some random act of osmosis any more than me
3:24:50
opening up a command here. This is this is what you guys
3:24:53
are essentially that not you near, but this is what people
3:24:56
are essentially saying. I'm going to switch to another
3:24:57
scene here to show you guys how ridiculous this is.
3:24:59
OK? I'm going to switch here to here
3:25:02
and I'm going to open a command terminal on my computer, OK, I'm
3:25:06
going to open a command terminal and we are going to just sit
3:25:08
here and what you guys are equating to The Big Bang and
3:25:13
life coming from non life and things just happening randomly
3:25:17
is like me doing like this. OK, you guys see this?
3:25:19
Do you guys see my ear for the for the, for the, I'm going to
3:25:21
open it more for the vertical stream because I want you to see
3:25:24
how stupid this is. All right, I'm going to open it
3:25:27
and I'm going to look at it and I'm going to go.
3:25:29
Keep going, keep going. OK, we're going to, that's good.
3:25:31
OK, Now you guys see me here in my command line.
3:25:33
This is essentially how people create software.
3:25:35
This is how people create operating systems in the same
3:25:38
way that they created the operating system that you were
3:25:40
looking at. I don't care what you're
3:25:41
watching me on, whether you are on a copy of Windows 11, Windows
3:25:44
10, Windows 7, Mac OS, Android OS on your phone, Linux,
3:25:49
whatever it is, these operating systems are all created with the
3:25:52
same foundational structure of code, right?
3:25:56
Very, very, very in depth code that cannot just be random,
3:26:01
right? There's people who go to school
3:26:02
for years to write this code. What you guys who believe that,
3:26:06
that, that in evolution and all these other ridiculous things
3:26:10
that you believe we used to be rodents and you believe we used
3:26:12
to be single celled organisms. This is essentially what you're
3:26:15
saying is happening. You see this?
3:26:19
I'm typing garbage, right? And I'm typing, and I'm typing
3:26:22
and I'm typing and I'm typing and I'm typing.
3:26:24
You see this? This is all trash.
3:26:25
This is not a line of code, right?
3:26:27
I have just typed random garbage and put it all together.
3:26:31
And you guys expect everyone in the world to believe that an
3:26:34
entire universe came together under this very same procedure?
3:26:41
This is the same way that if you guys would, basically the same
3:26:45
people that said Maverick, just keep doing what you're doing and
3:26:48
eventually you will accidentally create a perfect copy of Windows
3:26:52
11. That's what you're saying.
3:26:55
You're saying that it doesn't. It doesn't matter that
3:26:58
eventually DNA will assemble itself, that genetic code will
3:27:03
write itself, that the human cell will assemble itself, to
3:27:06
say nothing to the fact that a human being would come to
3:27:11
existence. Well, what came first?
3:27:13
The brain or the vascular system or the heart?
3:27:16
And by the way, how did the vascular system survive without
3:27:18
a heart? Was the heart with the vascular
3:27:20
system? Well, how did it get oxygenated?
3:27:22
When did the lungs come along? When did the eyes come along?
3:27:25
How would atoms even know to come together to form eyes?
3:27:28
No Organism has ever actually had eyes to visually see things.
3:27:31
When did that happen? But that's what you guys want
3:27:33
everyone to believe. You want everybody to believe
3:27:35
that? The same way I can just sit here
3:27:36
typing random crap that would eventually come out to be a
3:27:39
perfectly functional operating system happened at a much
3:27:43
grander and exponentially large scale to a point where human
3:27:47
beings don't even have names for those numbers.
3:27:50
But you guys want everybody to believe that everything in the
3:27:52
universe assembled itself through that very same
3:27:56
arbitrary, idiotic process. Very good.
3:28:01
And I know that you like Frank Turek.
3:28:02
He would have his quote for this and I love it, he says.
3:28:07
You basically would have had to win the lottery every day for
3:28:10
the next 10 million years under that process.
3:28:14
Yep, yeah, yeah, but let but. But hell, you can even write a
3:28:18
well here. You know what?
3:28:19
Let's ask you. You like to ask AI.
3:28:21
Let's see what are the odds that I could let a let's just even
3:28:29
say a software program I. Think it's the infinite monkey
3:28:33
theorem. Randomly generate computer code
3:28:38
until a perfectly functional operating system would result.
3:28:49
I've never even run this question.
3:28:50
I want to know. OK guys, so I typed and ChatGPT.
3:28:55
You guys heard what I said right?
3:28:57
I said what are the odds that I could let a software program
3:29:00
randomly generate computer code until a perfectly functional
3:29:03
operating system would a result. The answer practically speaking
3:29:07
is 0. Mathematically speaking, so
3:29:10
close to 0 it's indistinguishable.
3:29:13
So let's break it down. This is what it says.
3:29:16
You're describing something akin to infinite monkey theorem,
3:29:19
which is crazy because Nirv just said that right, and I had never
3:29:24
even heard that until right now. If a monkey typed on a keyboard
3:29:27
forever, eventually it could produce Shakespeare.
3:29:29
But there's a catch. That monkey would also create
3:29:33
every wrong combination before getting it right.
3:29:35
It's not about whether it could happen, it's about whether it
3:29:38
could ever reasonably happen if we take even a small operating
3:29:44
system kernel like the early Unix kernel with only 10,000
3:29:47
lines of code. And I know Brother Brett and I
3:29:49
both remember that because that's how old we are.
3:29:51
The odds of generating that exact sequence of code randomly
3:29:55
are astronomically low. So say you have 100 characters,
3:29:59
letters, digits, symbols, and spacing.
3:30:01
A single 10,000 character sequence has a 100 to the power
3:30:06
of 10,000 possible combinations. That's more combinations than
3:30:10
atoms in the observable universe by many, many, many orders of
3:30:14
magnitude. So why is it basically
3:30:17
impossible? Syntax has to be perfect.
3:30:20
One wrong semi colon and it won't compile.
3:30:23
Semantics have to be meaningful. The logic has to actually do
3:30:27
something functional. System structure has to be
3:30:30
coherent. File handling, memory
3:30:32
allocation, device IO, task scheduling, etcetera must work
3:30:37
in harmony. This is like expecting a tornado
3:30:40
in a junkyard to assemble a fully functional 747.
3:30:44
So what does this prove? This is a great analogy when
3:30:47
debating intelligent design versus randomness.
3:30:49
Just as you wouldn't expect an operating system to arise from
3:30:53
random character input, you wouldn't expect the life,
3:30:56
dxoribonucleic acid or DNA or consciousness to arise by random
3:31:01
chemical accidents. Complex information driven
3:31:04
systems are not the product of chaos, they're the hallmark of
3:31:08
intelligence. Here's another thing too,
3:31:11
brother Maverick. Even if you and I went into a
3:31:15
lab one day and decided to throw some scripts together and
3:31:19
somehow it became a Skynet for Terminator.
3:31:23
The problem is, is that, well, we're we would be considered
3:31:27
intelligent designers that required our mind in order to
3:31:30
get the scripts going. So either way, we win, we lose.
3:31:34
Sorry, give me my cookie. And and not only that, but you
3:31:36
know, what's funny is that there that's becoming a somewhat
3:31:38
popular, although fringe, I would say, but still somewhat
3:31:41
more popular argument by atheists.
3:31:42
They say, Oh well, so wait a second.
3:31:44
So if we create artificial intelligence and it has
3:31:49
consciousness, does that mean now that we have now taken a
3:31:53
life? Well, congratulations, you just
3:31:55
admitted that for a life to be created that has consciousness,
3:31:59
it requires a designer. What are you?
3:32:01
Like, Oh my. They don't even listen to
3:32:03
themselves when they talk. It almost is migraine inducing.
3:32:06
OK guys, we're going to get back to this video because I feel
3:32:08
like we're never going to and I don't I don't want to forget it
3:32:10
because it was it was great stuff where Matt Dillahunty was
3:32:13
crying like a woman. So let's get back to that.
3:32:16
Thank you so much, brother Neva. I appreciate it.
3:32:18
You are welcome here anytime and thank you for your intellectual
3:32:20
honesty my friend. You have a.
3:32:22
Nice day. You too, my brother.
3:32:23
God bless you, man. Keep seeking the truth, brother,
3:32:25
keep seeking the truth. God bless you.
3:32:27
God bless you. All right, guys, God right up,
3:32:30
right? So we have here the other half
3:32:33
of this guys, and then we're going to get off because I want
3:32:34
to spend time with my familia and not listen.
3:32:36
I'm starving. I don't know if you guys noticed
3:32:38
this about me, but I'm very intolerant of nonsense.
3:32:40
I'm even less tolerant of nonsense when I'm hungry.
3:32:42
I get angry. OK, so this is Brett Keene calls
3:32:45
atheist Matt Dillahunty, and we're just going to listen to
3:32:48
the rest of this because this is good listening.
3:32:50
Or or sad or upset because you are part of the minority.
3:32:53
Now let's go back to the actual issue here and see there are
3:32:58
studies that address happiness, and with regard to theism or
3:33:03
atheism, those things have nothing to do with whether or
3:33:05
not a God exists. I'd like to ask you, Brett, what
3:33:08
convinced you that a God exists? Well, there I will go into that
3:33:13
with you. But I do also want to point out
3:33:15
that according to stats According to stats, theists have
3:33:20
happier, longer lives. You will answer my question now
3:33:26
because we have honestly addressed your question several
3:33:28
times. When did he honestly address
3:33:30
your question? He didn't honestly address
3:33:32
anything. He wanted to pivot away from the
3:33:34
stats that you were providing that Brett was providing about
3:33:37
atheism and unaliving and and being unhappy by by saying, when
3:33:41
did you become convinced that a God existed?
3:33:43
That's the stupidest thing I ever heard of.
3:33:44
He's such a deflector, it's disgusting.
3:33:47
Or I will drop you from this call and not engage with you any
3:33:50
further. I'm unmuting you now.
3:33:54
OK. So what's your question now?
3:33:57
Go fuck yourself, Brett. If you're not going to listen to
3:33:59
my one question, why should I talk to you at all?
3:34:02
Well, it's difficult with the beep noise is going on in the
3:34:05
ear. I didn't quite hear it.
3:34:07
You said something about unmuting.
3:34:10
Fucking liar. There was no beep.
3:34:16
I wanted, I wanted a record that I heard the beep too, so I don't
3:34:19
know what the what? Yeah, whatever.
3:34:21
I existed, you lying piece of shit.
3:34:24
Because it is more rational and logical to believe there's more
3:34:27
to the universe than just simply stating it all poofed into
3:34:30
existence from nothingness. That's not an answer to my
3:34:34
question. That's my answer.
3:34:36
I'm telling you why I think it's a more rational, logical
3:34:38
position. I.
3:34:45
Get it? You want easy Christians?
3:34:47
You want easy Christians to debate?
3:34:49
I understand. Hang.
3:34:52
On Hang on. No, no, no.
3:34:54
Fuck you, Brett. I muted you.
3:34:55
I don't want easy Christians. I want honest Christians.
3:34:58
I'm the one of the two of us that have been engaged in more
3:35:01
fucking debates than you would ever hope to imagine to.
3:35:04
And I have debated the most dishonest motherfuckers on the
3:35:07
planet, and I have debated some of the most wonderful, honest
3:35:10
people on the planet. And when I asked one of those
3:35:13
honest people what convinced them that a God exists, they
3:35:15
don't spit some fucking pablum about how it's more rational.
3:35:19
Of course you think it's more rational.
3:35:21
That was a fucking given. I wanted to be actual evidence
3:35:24
or argument, but you can't have that on earth conversation and
3:35:27
in response to it you decide to shit on all the other Christians
3:35:30
and pretend that they're less honest than you.
3:35:33
I didn't say anything like that. We'll.
3:35:35
Let everybody else deal with you now while I play chess.
3:35:40
All right, can I ask another question?
3:35:42
A more sciencey thing than psychological?
3:35:45
We asked. You We're not done with the
3:35:46
question we asked. You.
3:35:47
Well, you say he was going to go play chess.
3:35:49
I didn't know he was still there and.
3:35:51
I'm still here, mother fucker. Brett, you were asked why you
3:35:56
believe in God and you said because it's more rational to
3:35:59
believe that there's more to the universe than it just pooped
3:36:02
into existence, which is not an explanation for God.
3:36:05
Because I think everybody here thinks that there's more of an
3:36:08
explanation than fucking magic, which is what pooped into
3:36:12
existence means. So you haven't even given you're
3:36:15
a theist, we're atheist, and you gave your reasoning being
3:36:21
acclaimed that. I think all four of us also
3:36:24
claim we think that it's more than just pooped into the
3:36:27
universe because we wouldn't say something so radically stupid to
3:36:31
describe The Big Bang. Well, one of the, one of the
3:36:36
reasons, one of the reasons why I'm trying to answer your
3:36:39
question, one of the positions that atheists hold is that they
3:36:43
go along with science and a pop Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope.
3:36:47
What's the problem? I'm trying to answer your
3:36:49
question. Your answer to why you believe
3:36:52
in God does not begin with one of the positions which atheists
3:36:58
hold. Your answer to I, why I do I
3:37:02
believe in God begins with I believe in God because would you
3:37:06
like to engage with it honestly, Brett?
3:37:08
Sure, sure, sure. And I get that you want to put
3:37:11
people on the corner and all that.
3:37:13
You don't want to allow explanation.
3:37:15
The next words out of your mouth, they're going to be I
3:37:17
believe in God because go. I believe in God because the
3:37:22
universe has a supernatural origin.
3:37:26
Demonstrate that. Well if you believe in The Big
3:37:29
Bang then you have to believe some prime mover or no is my
3:37:34
answer. Oh I see, fucking idiot.
3:37:38
So it's not supernatural. The universe didn't.
3:37:41
I I wish that one of these clowns, one of these spineless
3:37:46
I, I swear, it's so hard for me not to say bad words right now.
3:37:49
I I wish that one of these spineless clowns would try,
3:37:51
especially in person. First of all, they'd never do
3:37:53
this in person. They would never do this in
3:37:55
person. Especially not Matt Dillahunty
3:37:57
right? Because he will get folded.
3:37:59
I I tell you right now, I wish. I wish to boy.
3:38:02
So you can know how. To honestly.
3:38:04
Engage because it does not start with.
3:38:07
If you believe the big. Bang, then you have to believe,
3:38:10
blah blah blah. We're talking about your belief
3:38:12
in God, and you've said that it the origin of the universe has a
3:38:17
supernatural beginning. I said demonstrate it.
3:38:21
An example of a sentence which might do that would be the
3:38:24
universe has a supernatural beginning because and then the
3:38:29
answer would follow. OK, the answer is there are.
3:38:32
Some other ones, Brett. The answer is the same.
3:38:35
Dishonest route again. OK, choose.
3:38:39
Your favorite, but I've given you a good example.
3:38:41
Unmuting now. All right, so as I was saying,
3:38:45
the answer is because space and time and matter came into
3:38:49
existence. Supernatural is defined by
3:38:52
something that exists outside of nature.
3:38:55
That's the very classic definition of it.
3:38:57
So The Big Bang is supernatural by origin.
3:39:02
No. No.
3:39:05
You are incorrect that nature came in, necessarily came into
3:39:08
the existence, the nature which we interact with, sure, but what
3:39:12
you are describing, if what you are describing was true, why
3:39:16
does no physicist follow that same line of reasoning?
3:39:22
Well, most physicists believe in The Big Bang, that it actually
3:39:25
happened, that space-time and matter came into existence.
3:39:30
Space-time and matter all in an all likely by a natural.
3:39:34
Hey, and by the way, Brett, I'm not even telling you that it
3:39:37
didn't happen by supernatural means.
3:39:40
Well, of course not. I'm telling.
3:39:41
You that there has been no demonstration of whether or not
3:39:44
The Big Bang happened by natural or supernatural.
3:39:47
That said, natural things have been demonstrated billions of
3:39:52
times over. Supernatural things have been
3:39:54
demonstrated to even be possible a whopping 0 times.
3:40:00
So the rational person, as you like to talk about rationality
3:40:04
goes, which one of those am I going to line up with a
3:40:08
supernatural explanation with its zero demonstrations of ever
3:40:11
occurring or the natural, the potential for a natural
3:40:15
explanation, which one am I going to presume though with the
3:40:19
ability to be incorrect? But it's probably more likely to
3:40:22
be the category under which The Big Bang follows.
3:40:27
Well, the well, it is rational and logical.
3:40:33
If you believe in The Big Bang, then you believe in the
3:40:35
supernatural origin. You're an idiot.
3:40:37
I'm Oh my God. Anyone anyone else want a piece
3:40:40
of bread because I. Just you guys don't feel like
3:40:42
you have a lot of happiness and joy in.
3:40:44
You sound very angry by the. Way his his pronouns were he
3:40:47
wanted to identify as the sexiest man alive.
3:40:50
So I already knew it was going to be a stupid call in the 1st
3:40:53
place, but does anyone want a piece of bread before we go?
3:40:55
The only thing I have to add is that ACE Cambridge examined the
3:41:00
raised risk of suicide amongst people with different religious
3:41:04
affiliations and the most at risk group differs based on age
3:41:12
range. It seems to be a significant
3:41:15
factor. There was also factors like
3:41:18
social class, academic qualifications, and marital
3:41:21
statuses seem to have far more significant impact than religion
3:41:26
did. So this whole stat say, sounds
3:41:29
like you found one study that might have suggested that, which
3:41:32
in no way suggests that the cause of the suicidality is
3:41:36
atheism, much in the same way that's the cause of suicidality.
3:41:40
And trans people, as was pointed out earlier, it's not trans
3:41:42
people transness. It's often the society and the
3:41:46
culture and the environment that they're in.
3:41:48
I don't think you've demonstrated.
3:41:49
So. So I want you guys to notice
3:41:52
that this clown found a way to interject trans ideology into
3:41:58
this conversation, which nobody was talking about, but still
3:42:03
said what decided was going to interject transness.
3:42:07
And and not because what they're doing is wrong, because in his
3:42:11
idiotic little mind, it's impossible that what they're
3:42:13
doing is wrong. No, it is more likely that it is
3:42:16
the people around them who make them want to feel that way.
3:42:19
Or is it because you know that what you're doing is wrong and
3:42:22
you don't have people around you who are giving you the rah rah
3:42:25
you're trans women or women crap that nobody actually believes?
3:42:28
That's what it comes down to. People in society are sick of
3:42:32
violating their own conscience for the sake of these kinds of
3:42:34
idiots. That's what it comes down to.
3:42:36
In any capacity that atheism is the cause of suicidality and the
3:42:42
data do not support your conclusion.
3:42:44
So get fucked, Brett. Well the information can be
3:42:48
found on Richard Dawkins website.
3:42:50
Aren't you guys buddies with them?
3:42:52
You might want to ask him, he talks about it.
3:42:55
Oh my God, you can go tone touch Dawkins spark box somewhere
3:43:00
else. Brett, But you guys don't like
3:43:01
Richard Dawkins anymore? I love that you started this.
3:43:07
Because I used to be an atheist and they were like.
3:43:09
But don't worry, I'm going to spend this entire call showing
3:43:12
that I never understood even the notion of skepticism because
3:43:17
Jesus Christ, it didn't get close.
3:43:19
So you guys were saying earlier, if you don't mind me asking, you
3:43:23
have a difficult time being able to do the holidays because of
3:43:26
religious issues. All right, see you later.
3:43:29
There. You're scared of me, are you?
3:43:31
See you later. Yeah, a bunch of they're,
3:43:34
they're a bunch of girls, man. But you know what?
3:43:37
I, I applaud you, Brett. It's for that very reason that
3:43:41
I, I find it very difficult. I'm not, I, I don't have, I
3:43:46
don't have that, that, that patience that you do, man.
3:43:49
Like the minute people start trying to talk over me like
3:43:51
that, I, I've been sending them the hell.
3:43:52
That's why. And that's another reason why I
3:43:54
have been talking to atheists a lot less because it's that kind
3:43:57
of arrogance that I don't want. I, I need to learn more to, to
3:44:01
deal with without being like, hey, you know what?
3:44:03
I'm not, you know what I mean? But having said that, guys, just
3:44:06
to go to Brett's point, before we get off the show here, there
3:44:11
are several studies. Here are several revealing
3:44:14
studies and data sets showing that unaliving rates are
3:44:17
significantly higher among atheists and non religious
3:44:20
individuals, even after adjusting for factors like age,
3:44:23
socioeconomic status, and mental health history, which is what
3:44:26
that one clown was alluding to in the video.
3:44:28
These are not fringe claims. They're well documented in peer
3:44:31
reviewed research and international databases.
3:44:33
Now mind you, I do not care at all about peer review.
3:44:39
I don't I don't recognize it's the appeal to authority of peer
3:44:42
review. But I will tell you guys this.
3:44:45
There are studies called the the Koenig at Al in 2012, which was
3:44:51
from the Handbook of Religion and Health finding.
3:44:54
Numerous studies find that a lack of religious belief is
3:44:57
associated with significantly higher rates of unaliving.
3:45:00
Unaliving attempts and unaliving ideation details the book of
3:45:05
summaries Over 100 studies noting religious affiliation,
3:45:08
belief in God, and participation in religious community are all
3:45:13
protective factors against unaliving.
3:45:14
What is the source? Harold G Koenig, Michael E
3:45:18
McCullough, and David B Larson from the handbook of religion
3:45:21
and health, second edition, Oxford University Press.
3:45:24
Which is funny because that one femme boy was talking about
3:45:27
Cambridge University and said oh you probably found one fringe
3:45:30
study. I found there's a crap, there's
3:45:33
over six right here. 6 studies from different universities from
3:45:36
different people. We had a Lawrence study in 2016
3:45:39
from the psychological medicine from Cambridge University Press.
3:45:42
All funny because this one dude tried to.
3:45:44
So he probably looked at cherry picked the things that like
3:45:48
sided with him and and and ignored the actual study
3:45:52
finding. There was the stack S that was
3:45:54
done from 1983 to the 2000s from multiple meta analysis.
3:45:59
And the finding was that this prolific researcher reviewed
3:46:02
dozens of studies over 20 years and the conclusion was that
3:46:05
religious commitment, especially belief in an afterlife and
3:46:08
regular attendance, strongly predicts lower unaliving rates.
3:46:11
Oh funny how that works. What was the source example?
3:46:13
Stack, S 1983. The effect of religious
3:46:16
commitment on on arriving across national analysis.
3:46:19
Journal of health and social behavior from pages 362 to 374.
3:46:25
The pre pure research actually echoed the same thing the
3:46:29
kleiman and lieu in 2014 journal of affective disorders.
3:46:32
You guys can refer to a source called kleiman EM Lee lieu RT
3:46:37
Prospective prediction of suicide in a nationally
3:46:40
representative sample. Religious service attendance as
3:46:43
a protective factor. Journal of affective disorders
3:46:46
disorders 2014 the world. Well, I can't even talk anymore.
3:46:51
The World Health Organization and underlying data cross
3:46:55
national patterns also echoes what Brett said.
3:46:59
So what is the summary of core protective mechanisms here guys
3:47:02
throughout all these studies, belief and accountability to God
3:47:05
as a moral deterrent, community integration and support, hope in
3:47:10
the afterlife or divine plan and existential meaning beyond
3:47:13
material existence, and finally moral prohibitions against
3:47:17
unaliving and religious worldviews.
3:47:19
Every one of these things completely obliterates which I
3:47:22
probably wouldn't even got a word in because the minute I
3:47:24
would have decided one of those studies, they probably would
3:47:26
have all started telling me to go F myself.
3:47:28
And your next answer better be I'm going to tell you guys
3:47:31
something right now. I don't do well with another man
3:47:35
trying to tell me as a grown man, what better be the next
3:47:37
words out of my mouth because that those are the kinds of
3:47:39
things that again, guys are done by guys who are hiding behind a
3:47:42
microphone. Under no circumstances has Matt
3:47:44
Dillahunty ever tried something like that when he is face to
3:47:46
face with another person, especially one who he knows will
3:47:49
lay him out. Brother Brett, do you have
3:47:51
anything else to say before we get out of here?
3:47:55
I have hundreds of recordings on my Spotify of me debating
3:47:59
helpless atheist and and defeating them.
3:48:02
I've noticed whenever I've taken their invites and went on their
3:48:06
shows and podcast, if I end up tearing them apart and folding
3:48:10
them up as you eloquently put forth, they will remove their
3:48:14
videos. Oh yeah.
3:48:16
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
3:48:17
Edit and delete if you beat them.
3:48:20
So nowadays my attitude is if I'm going to debate them, they
3:48:24
have to come on my show. I will not go on to their stuff
3:48:28
because they're intellectually dishonest and they try to bully
3:48:31
people, meet you, shut you down. And you all seen the perfect
3:48:35
demonstration from the intellectual known as Matt
3:48:38
Dilla. Oh yeah, and you know what is so
3:48:40
funny too, because there is AII always talk about this.
3:48:42
There is a female on TikTok who when it made a whole TikTok
3:48:46
about about our friend just in the deconstruction bone, the
3:48:49
construction bonehead, as I call him, who who thinks he's so
3:48:52
intelligent and went on on the went on Tim cast IRL to get
3:48:56
absolutely smoked by not only inspiring philosophy, but but
3:49:01
Tim Poole, who is a moderator himself, who told him straight
3:49:04
out listened. Don't bring up things that I'm
3:49:06
going to go ahead and forget that you brought up something
3:49:08
and you have absolutely no idea how it works because it makes
3:49:10
you sound really stupid. And I've been listening.
3:49:11
I've been saying that for years. I don't know why y'all need a
3:49:13
Tim pill to tell you that. I could have told you that, but
3:49:16
there was a woman who actually said she was like, yeah, I went
3:49:18
on there and and I spanked him up.
3:49:19
And my biggest mistake was not recording the VOD.
3:49:23
But I'm a new tik toker. I'm not a content creator like
3:49:24
that. And funnily enough, that VOD
3:49:28
didn't make it onto his channel. Well, of course not, because
3:49:31
when they run into people who are prepared, they're not going
3:49:33
to upload that because they want to maintain their image of being
3:49:36
the intellectual superior. But you're not.
3:49:38
You are an intellectually deficient worldview when you
3:49:42
look at atheism and say, yes, that is the way to do it.
3:49:44
I mean, come on, guys. Guardian says Turtle.
3:49:47
The only way to the Father is Jesus, and we are saved by grace
3:49:49
alone. No man should work for.
3:49:50
But yeah, absolutely. Guys.
3:49:51
I don't engage with Turtle. Turtle is not an intellectually
3:49:54
honest person and even more than that does not have the cojones
3:49:57
to call into the show and and type in cross unit that live
3:50:00
forward slash call. Guys, tomorrow's going to be a
3:50:01
great, great, great show. We are going to collaborate with
3:50:05
GOD TV Radio to talk to Doctor Kent Hovine.
3:50:08
I absolutely love that man and his work and it should be an
3:50:12
interesting conversation. Please stay tuned for that guys.
3:50:14
Be safe, be good, be blessed. I will see you guys when I see
3:50:17
you and remember that Jesus is King and the absolute only way
3:50:21
to heaven. Have a good one guys.