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Mini: Talking With Myself · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why We Do What We Do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why We Do What We Do Mini. I'm your host, Abraham.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: And I'm your host, Shane.
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  Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about humans and
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  Speaker 1: non-human animals and all the things that they do. And
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  Speaker 1: we do that in a very short discussion on Mondays.
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  Speaker 1: And we call it a mini because it's short. And
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  Speaker 1: so we're going to try and get in there and
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  Speaker 1: talk about this and then get out of there and
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  Speaker 1: you can go about your day. And that's the goal here,
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  Speaker 1: 15 minutes or less, what we're shooting for. Yes, yes,
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  Speaker 1: and we will do it. Yeah, we're committed to this. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: before we jump in, if you are joining us for
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  Speaker 1: the first time, welcome. I hope that you enjoy what
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  Speaker 1: you hear in this discussion. And if you do and
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  Speaker 1: you'd like to support us, you can head over to Patreon.
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  Speaker 1: You can leave us a rating and review, like, subscribe,
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  Speaker 1: coming back, then welcome back. If you haven't supported us,
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  Speaker 1: you can do that in the ways that I just mentioned.
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  Speaker 1: And just thank you for listening either way. We appreciate
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  Speaker 1: you being here. And so I think that's what we
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  Speaker 1: have to say. We'll jump right into it. Are you ready? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: let's do it. Okay, I'm going to tell a short story.
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  Speaker 1: I go to the fridge. I open it. Look inside.
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  Speaker 1: I mutter under my breath. What was I looking for?
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  Speaker 1: Why did I come over here? A quick scan of
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  Speaker 1: the contents of the fridge do nothing to expose whatever
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  Speaker 1: enigmatic motivation sent me on this futile quest. But more importantly,
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  Speaker 1: who was my question for? I said, what was I
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  Speaker 1: looking for? Why did I come over here? There's no
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  Speaker 1: one here to hear it or answer, but myself. And
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  Speaker 1: nor would they have been able to answer even if
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  Speaker 1: they'd been able to hear it because I'm asking myself.
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  Speaker 1: So what's going on here? Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Once we learn to talk, we talk a lot, like
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  Speaker 2: a whole lot, like so much. We talk to each other.
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  Speaker 2: We record our talking for other people to listen to later. Like,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, I would picture that being like some
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  Speaker 2: type of radio format or I don't know, whatever this
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  Speaker 2: thing is called. Podcast, I guess. We talk to our pets.
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  Speaker 2: We even talk to ourselves. But what is the point
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  Speaker 2: of talking to ourselves? Why do we do it? And
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  Speaker 2: what does it even mean?
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  Speaker 1: So we're going to talk to you about talking to
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  Speaker 1: yourself or ourselves and other people talking to themselves. And
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  Speaker 1: we're going to try and answer those very questions. Why
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  Speaker 1: do we do it? What does it mean?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So self-talk, as we might call it, is any
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  Speaker 2: verbal behavior directed towards ourselves as the audience. So we
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  Speaker 2: are the speaker and we are also the audience to
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  Speaker 2: our own speaking behavior. And it can impressively span a
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  Speaker 2: pretty large range of possible forms. So for instance, if
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  Speaker 2: I stub my toe and I shout out in pain,
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  Speaker 2: that could count as talking to myself. Obviously, speaking in
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  Speaker 2: full sentences when no one is around is talking to myself.
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  Speaker 2: But thinking in a monologue can count as talking to
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  Speaker 2: myself as well. So reciting a list, commenting on a
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  Speaker 2: situation without an audience, an outward audience or an external audience,
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  Speaker 2: I should say.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And then even writing in a diary can all be
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  Speaker 2: counted as talking to myself.
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  Speaker 1: You're doing language that's just for you. That's it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's all for you. So if there is any question
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  Speaker 1: about whether or not this is normal, and I got
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  Speaker 1: to say that when I was looking into the research
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  Speaker 1: on this, that was a question a lot of people
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  Speaker 1: seem to have. Sure. In response, first, there is no
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  Speaker 1: such thing as normal. So there's that. But if by normal,
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  Speaker 1: you mean that do most people do it? Those with language, yes,
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  Speaker 1: that is the case. Once you have language, there will
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  Speaker 1: almost inevitably be an opportunity to use verbal behavior and
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  Speaker 1: self-talk In one way or another, like it's just, it
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  Speaker 1: is just a thing that we do that we talk.
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  Speaker 1: And sometimes we don't have an audience besides ourselves to
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  Speaker 1: talk to. And again, that can even be like, if
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  Speaker 1: you're writing down a list to remember things, that's kind
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  Speaker 1: of like talking to yourself, right? Like that is you
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  Speaker 1: are your own audience there. Right, right.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly. So what does it mean? It mostly means that
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  Speaker 2: you have an intact verbal repertoire. It also means that
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  Speaker 2: experiences with self-talk have been useful, productive, or at least
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  Speaker 2: feel comfortable or familiar enough to persist in the absence
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  Speaker 2: of social engagement. So it's worth noting that self-talk may
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  Speaker 2: also happen during times where people who are experiencing a
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  Speaker 2: psychotic episode or other mental health issues, such as hallucinations,
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  Speaker 2: might show up there. So in these cases, self-talk may
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  Speaker 2: indicate a need for a specific mental health support service,
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  Speaker 2: and it should be administered quickly. But that's not as
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  Speaker 2: common as kind of your day-to-day self-talk.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, just like... Everybody does self-talk. It can also happen
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  Speaker 1: during a psychotic episode, but it doesn't mean you're having
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  Speaker 1: a psychotic episode, right? Right. Exactly. So that's an important
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  Speaker 1: thing to understand is like hallucinations that are happening as
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  Speaker 1: part of mental health disorders that are happening. There could
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  Speaker 1: be self-talk happening, but most of us do it a
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  Speaker 1: lot of the time. Right. Now- There are people out
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  Speaker 1: there who find great joy in taxonomizing things. And by that,
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  Speaker 1: I mean coming up with categories to call one thing
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  Speaker 1: different from another. And they have delineated three types of self-talk.
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  Speaker 1: Negative self-talk, positive self-talk, and neutral self-talk. Very quickly, negative meaning,
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  Speaker 1: in this case, critical or cruel, saying something mean about yourself.
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  Speaker 1: Positive in this case, meaning affirming and kind, something nice
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  Speaker 1: about yourself. And neutral meaning having no evaluation of valence
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  Speaker 1: about yourself. It's just a thing that is said. Sure. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: That's a thing. Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Now, briefly, some experimental arrangements find that negative self-talk can
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  Speaker 2: improve performance in some very narrow circumstances, like motivation in sports,
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  Speaker 2: sometimes inconsistently. Positive self-talk generally has useful outcomes and helps
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  Speaker 2: people focus, relax, and manage their emotions. And neutral self-talk
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  Speaker 2: often occurs when narrative or listing or looking for things,
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  Speaker 2: and it can be helpful in those situations. That's usually
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  Speaker 2: when we see that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And so sometimes we just talk about things that
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  Speaker 1: we're selling, and those are ads talk.
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  Speaker 2: Negative self-ad talk.
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  Speaker 1: All right, we're back. So those who have looked into
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  Speaker 1: this from an experimental perspective report that generally speaking, self-talk
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  Speaker 1: has many benefits. People who self-talk while engaged in a
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  Speaker 1: task will usually stay more focused on the task and
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  Speaker 1: complete it more quickly and more accurately. There's some actual
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  Speaker 1: specific studies that have done this. Some evidence suggests that
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  Speaker 1: people with anxiety who talk to themselves when they do this,
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  Speaker 1: they sometimes create a distance from their anxious feelings and
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  Speaker 1: that helps them process their emotions in a way that
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  Speaker 1: can help them reduce their anxiety. And it's not like
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  Speaker 1: you'll go from a 10 to a zero, but it
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  Speaker 1: might help you bring you down from like a 10
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  Speaker 1: to maybe an eight or a seven. And so if
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  Speaker 1: you can just help bring the thermometer down a little bit,
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  Speaker 1: that can potentially help. And again, doesn't work for everyone
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  Speaker 1: all of the time, but some evidence has found that
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  Speaker 1: people who are anxious, who self-talk, maybe sometimes feel less anxious.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Now, a popularly cited 2012 study by Lupien
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  Speaker 2: and friends in the Quarterly Journal of Experimental Psychology demonstrated
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  Speaker 2: that people who engage in self-talk were able to more
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  Speaker 2: quickly locate things that they were looking for, like in
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  Speaker 2: a specific task in which they were asked to find
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  Speaker 2: things relative to people who only talk to themselves in
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  Speaker 2: their minds or not at all. So this like open
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  Speaker 2: vocal self-talking seemed to be most helpful in that situation.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So it was like, find this thing. People found
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  Speaker 1: it more quickly if they were engaging in self-talk while
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  Speaker 1: looking for it. I think they speculated, if I recall correctly,
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  Speaker 1: that people were sort of reminding themselves of what they
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  Speaker 1: were doing. It helped them stay on task more. And
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  Speaker 1: so they were therefore more quick at finding the thing
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  Speaker 1: they were looking for. So this thing. Now there is
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  Speaker 1: this weird rabbit hole. Some sources we found went down
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  Speaker 1: in which they point out that the purpose of talking
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  Speaker 1: is communication and the exchange of information. And so what
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  Speaker 1: is to be gained from talking to oneself? There is
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  Speaker 1: no exchange of information. Then there's not really communication. So
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a quick rebuttal to this silliness that
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  Speaker 1: these people decided they needed to spend time writing an
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  Speaker 1: article about. The purpose of verbal behavior is not necessarily
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  Speaker 1: an exchange of information or communication. So, no.
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  Speaker 2: No. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
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  Speaker 1: We disagree. Yeah, your premise is flawed. Like, you're arguing
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  Speaker 1: if the purpose of it is information exchange, then what
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  Speaker 1: are we doing with self-talk? And I'm going to say
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  Speaker 1: it's not information exchange. There are a lot of reasons
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  Speaker 1: we engage in verbal behavior. It is a way we
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  Speaker 1: interact with the world. It is our language, our verbal behavior.
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  Speaker 1: Sometimes that means it's an audience and sometimes it doesn't.
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  Speaker 1: It's just a thing that we do. So if you
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  Speaker 1: understand that that's the point, that's the purpose, that the
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  Speaker 1: purpose is not necessarily exchange of information, then your question
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  Speaker 1: becomes null and void.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Now, overt self-talk has two features that contribute
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  Speaker 2: to how it works and its uniqueness. One is that
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  Speaker 2: it is a form that is overt. So for those
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  Speaker 2: of us who hear, the sound of our own voices
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  Speaker 2: carries with it more impactful stimulus features than internal talk.
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  Speaker 2: The sounds are overt, they're audible, and they carry with
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  Speaker 2: them those stimulus functions of heard language. So basically, it's
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  Speaker 2: speaking out loud.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And again, I'll just go back to the easy
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  Speaker 1: example of making a list. If you say that list
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  Speaker 1: out loud, it is often easier to remember than if
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  Speaker 1: you are just reciting it in your mind. Right. Again,
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  Speaker 1: when you hear things out loud, they are out loud.
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  Speaker 1: They're more salient. They are clearer. They are more present.
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  Speaker 1: They have more stimulus functions. And of course, those without
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  Speaker 1: hearing might even sign to themselves. So those who use
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  Speaker 1: sign language or assisted hearing devices, for example, they might
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  Speaker 1: sign to themselves with a similar effect, which is related
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  Speaker 1: to the second aspect of talking to ourselves, which is
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  Speaker 1: that it requires deliberate, effortful behavior. The fact that we
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  Speaker 1: are moving our mouths or our hands or both for
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  Speaker 1: writing or signing or whatever to produce language requires coordination
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  Speaker 1: and direct motor interactions with our environment. So again, when
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  Speaker 1: we talk to ourselves, the sounds that we hear from
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  Speaker 1: our own voices are more powerful and more salient than
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  Speaker 1: simply reciting things in our mind, which still has an effect.
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  Speaker 1: Like you can still do internal self-dialogue or monologue, that
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  Speaker 1: can work. And when we actually say it, when we're
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  Speaker 1: actually writing it, when we're actually signing it, whatever it is,
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  Speaker 1: when we're producing that language, we have to move. We
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  Speaker 1: have to like move our bodies to do it, right?
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  Speaker 1: Like to do a thing. And that has a salient
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  Speaker 1: and powerful stimulus function as well, because it is overt,
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  Speaker 1: because we have to do something to make it happen.
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  Speaker 1: It has those two features of it. It has salient,
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  Speaker 1: detectable sensory stimulus features, and it requires motor coordination and movement. Therefore,
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  Speaker 1: doing things out loud can affect our behavior in more
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  Speaker 1: powerful ways in many instances than simply doing them in
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  Speaker 1: our minds. Writing things down can be more effective and
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  Speaker 1: more powerful than just reciting it. Saying it loud has
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  Speaker 1: a similar effect. So that's part of why you have
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  Speaker 1: people who say things like, write it down, to write
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  Speaker 1: down an affirming statement or something. But anyway, I'll end
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  Speaker 1: my part there. Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, that's fair, though. And we have to talk
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  Speaker 2: about all that, right? So why do we talk to ourselves?
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  Speaker 2: It's because language is a way that we interact with
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  Speaker 2: the world. It is shaped by social community, and so
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  Speaker 2: are many of our behaviors. Once we have verbal behavior
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  Speaker 2: or language in our repertoire, we can use it in
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  Speaker 2: a variety of ways. And that's true for any behavior, too.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: But this specifically verbal behavior, we can use it in
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  Speaker 2: a variety of ways, including directing or focusing our own behavior.
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  Speaker 2: And that's a nice, simple way to look at it.
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  Speaker 2: So you're not crazy if you're talking to yourself. Actually,
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  Speaker 2: it could be helping you. Other people talking to themselves,
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  Speaker 2: it could be helping them. It is not a thing
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  Speaker 2: that you should try and suppress. If kids talk to themselves,
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  Speaker 2: that could, again, be just a really good thing that
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  Speaker 2: they're developing and using their language in that way. There
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  Speaker 2: are ways that we do it. There are some times
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  Speaker 2: that it is related to pathological things, but not inherently. Right.
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  Speaker 2: There you go.
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  Speaker 1: Perfect. All right. That's what we have to say about
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: talking to yourself. If you'd like to share your thoughts
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: about talking to yourselves, you can talk to ourselves instead
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: by emailing us directly at info at WWD, WWD podcast.com
• 11:52
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• 11:55
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• 11:56
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• 11:58
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• 12:02
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• 12:13
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• 12:16
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• 12:18
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• 12:20
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Of course. Thank you so much to my team of
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: people without whom I could not make this. You all
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: know who you are. I'm going to keep this short
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  Speaker 1: so we can keep this mini, but thank you for
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  Speaker 1: recording with me today, Shane. Hey, thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 1: All right. Is there anything you'd like to add or
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  Speaker 1: anything that I forgot before we wrap up this mini? Nope.
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  Speaker 1: Not today. All right, everybody go talk to yourselves today.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: This is Abraham.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: This is Shane.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Why we do what we do. Mini is out. Bye.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You've been listening to Why We Do What We Do.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: going to www.wwdpodcast.com.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day.