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Transcript

Your Burning Listener Questions Answered · Scalability School

• 0:00
  Like if I'm being like super straight up,
• 0:01
  it's like if you can change the offer
• 0:03
  and the ad account could turn around
• 0:04
  overnight and you can push up more scale
• 0:06
  because now consumers are realizing, Oh,
• 0:08
  this is easier to understand or it's
• 0:10
  easier to unlock or
• 0:11
  whatever that might be.
• 0:12
  There are exceptions to this, but most of
• 0:13
  the time they're a flash in the pan and
• 0:15
  they're not the people that are out there
• 0:16
  consistently doing the work.
• 0:19
  And the other thing is all of these
• 0:20
  people that we all know that are well
• 0:22
  known in our industry, including us.
• 0:25
  There are like multiple people under them
• 0:27
  that are also or with them that
• 0:30
  are also doing the work and that are
• 0:32
  really smart and potentially smarter
• 0:33
  than them and or than us.
• 0:35
  I think for a while, people would be
• 0:37
  shocked to hear that you're spending
• 0:38
  40% upwards of 40% more in some cases of
• 0:42
  your revenue on marketing.
• 0:43
  I think people are
• 0:43
  really shocked by that.
• 0:44
  And I think that's just like somewhat the
• 0:46
  reality unless you have a really unique,
• 0:48
  you know, you have strong LTV, you have
• 0:50
  some kind of like organic mode.
• 0:51
  Like there's a lot of things that could
• 0:52
  factor into that, but, um, kind
• 0:54
  of the, kind of the barrier to entry at
• 0:56
  this point, you can still have
• 0:57
  other playbooks that can work.
• 0:58
  I mean, these guys do
• 0:59
  crazy affiliate stuff.
• 1:01
  They do a ton of stuff with tick tock
• 1:02
  shop driving traffic over to Amazon.
• 1:04
  I mean, there's definitely no one size
• 1:05
  fits all playbook that everyone has to
• 1:07
  follow.
• 1:08
  And if someone says like, this is how you
• 1:09
  grow a brand, like just know there's
• 1:11
  going to be a bunch of other ways that
• 1:12
  you probably can go about it.
• 1:13
  I also think like you also just have to
• 1:14
  tap into what you're good at.
• 1:15
  And now let's take a listen to the
• 1:24
  scalability school podcast.
• 1:27
  First of all, big
• 1:28
  celebration, huge confetti emoji.
• 1:31
  Like we're texting
• 1:32
  each other on an iPhone.
• 1:34
  Congratulations to my co-hosts.
• 1:36
  Good job.
• 1:36
  Most people, this is like a restaurant.
• 1:38
  Like you don't make it past
• 1:38
  the first six months or whatever.
• 1:40
  Like look at this.
• 1:40
  Most podcasts fail after
• 1:41
  the third episode, right?
• 1:42
  We're here.
• 1:43
  Not us.
• 1:44
  Not us.
• 1:45
  Hanging on.
• 1:46
  We've continued to receive tens of emails
• 1:48
  from people about how great this
• 1:51
  podcast is.
• 1:52
  So everybody actually people like that.
• 1:54
  They said they actually, I've had three
• 1:55
  people comment this week.
• 1:57
  Tell me that they love how
• 1:59
  informal, informal it is.
• 2:01
  So it's not like too structured.
• 2:03
  And we're like, that's just cause we are
• 2:05
  bad at planning and we don't.
• 2:07
  All right.
• 2:07
  All right.
• 2:07
  Hold on.
• 2:08
  I'm doing a decent job.
• 2:09
  Of course.
• 2:10
  But anyway, guys, we're anyway, guys and
• 2:12
  gals and everything in between.
• 2:13
  We're glad you're here.
• 2:14
  Thanks for being here.
• 2:15
  We're excited to talk through questions
• 2:17
  that we got on our mostly
• 2:19
  Zach's Twitter profile in response to his
• 2:22
  tweet or sorry, X talking about
• 2:25
  everything from, Hey, you know, we want
• 2:28
  to answer your questions.
• 2:29
  People ask us for this.
• 2:30
  And so it's, it's, it's a whole bunch of
• 2:31
  stuff we're going to go through today.
• 2:32
  A potpourri, if you will, a potpourri of
• 2:36
  questions, a lot of different things.
• 2:38
  So we're going to go
• 2:38
  ahead and dive right in.
• 2:41
  Hey, what's up?
• 2:42
  This is Andrew from scalability.
• 2:43
  School.
• 2:44
  And we really believe in way flyer.
• 2:45
  And the episode is actually brought to
• 2:47
  you by way flyer today.
• 2:48
  If you ever run a brand or you work with
• 2:50
  brands, you know, the
• 2:51
  challenge isn't getting sales, right?
• 2:52
  It's it's managing cashflow.
• 2:54
  So you can actually grow.
• 2:55
  There's things like inventory invoices
• 2:57
  that come due ad spend ramps up before
• 2:59
  big sales periods, and suddenly you're
• 3:01
  caught between waiting on revenue
• 3:02
  and needing money today.
• 3:04
  And that's what way
• 3:04
  flyer helps with, right?
• 3:06
  They help DTC founders get fast access to
• 3:08
  capital, usually within 48 to 72 hours.
• 3:11
  And the repayment terms are designed
• 3:13
  around how e-commerce actually works.
• 3:15
  Think flexible monthly caps, fixed
• 3:17
  repayment options, and even products
• 3:18
  built specifically for brands
• 3:19
  selling on Shopify and Amazon.
• 3:22
  What makes them different is they
• 3:23
  actually understand the space.
• 3:25
  They know the ups and downs of inventory
• 3:26
  cycles, the importance of timing,
• 3:28
  ad spend, and how seasonal swings can
• 3:30
  make or break a year.
• 3:31
  Working with way flyer feels less like
• 3:33
  borrowing from a bank and more like
• 3:35
  having a partner who's
• 3:35
  invested in your growth.
• 3:37
  So whether you're looking to cover
• 3:38
  inventory, smooth out cashflow, or give
• 3:40
  your marketing budget the fuel it needs
• 3:42
  before a big season, check them out
• 3:44
  at way flyer.com
• 3:45
  forward slash scalability.
• 3:47
  First question.
• 3:48
  You know, I think Zach, I've heard people
• 3:49
  ask you this and I think it's worth
• 3:51
  bringing up right away, which is when
• 3:53
  should an agency try to be a DTC brand?
• 3:55
  Or like, when should
• 3:56
  people make that transition?
• 3:57
  Cause that's something that we, I hear
• 3:58
  about literally all the time.
• 4:00
  I talk about founder members bring it up.
• 4:01
  Oh, I'm starting a brand like Zach stuck.
• 4:04
  And I, it's a thing that a
• 4:06
  lot of people chat about.
• 4:07
  So when and why should they ever do that?
• 4:09
  And Brad, you have this as well.
• 4:11
  So I'd be curious of your take.
• 4:13
  Yeah.
• 4:13
  I mean, I think I had the
• 4:15
  intention all along to do this.
• 4:16
  So when I started Homestead, I was like,
• 4:18
  Hey, I want to do the agency thing.
• 4:20
  And then I would go into brands.
• 4:21
  Cause if I go way back, I actually
• 4:23
  started a brand and I
• 4:23
  was 19 in college and did
• 4:25
  like a Kickstarter and
• 4:26
  all that fun stuff for it.
• 4:27
  And I always loved
• 4:28
  being on the brand side.
• 4:29
  So I always knew I wanted to get back
• 4:30
  there at some point.
• 4:31
  So like, that's the like forward answer.
• 4:33
  But I think a lot of people, you know,
• 4:35
  are in this mode of like, okay, agency
• 4:38
  game is a grind, maybe I
• 4:40
  want to try the other side.
• 4:41
  I think that it really comes down to like
• 4:44
  your time and energy and where
• 4:46
  you're getting energy from.
• 4:47
  If you're getting energy from solving
• 4:48
  problems in businesses versus like
• 4:52
  agency problems, like people and staffing
• 4:55
  and leading and teaching people things.
• 4:58
  You get a lot of energy from like
• 5:00
  teaching and stuff like that.
• 5:01
  I'd say keep running your agency.
• 5:03
  Like you're probably doing just fine.
• 5:04
  And you should stick to
• 5:05
  that and keep focused on that.
• 5:06
  But if you are in this quest of like, I
• 5:10
  want to go learn something new that I
• 5:11
  know nothing about, which is like product
• 5:14
  and ops and finance, really, like really
• 5:17
  going deep into all those things.
• 5:18
  I think that's a great
• 5:19
  opportunity to do it.
• 5:20
  I think that the biggest thing is it's a
• 5:23
  time suck, you know, where I've tried to
• 5:25
  run a bunch of different businesses at
• 5:27
  the same time, and it's really hard to do
• 5:28
  a lot of things at once.
• 5:29
  So I think you just have to be cognizant
• 5:31
  of how much time it's going to eat up.
• 5:34
  And I also think like the other thing is
• 5:37
  just like financially how much you're
• 5:38
  willing to like take a bet on.
• 5:40
  So the first brand that we started with,
• 5:41
  like I dumped 150 K cash into, it was a
• 5:44
  lot of cash and I
• 5:44
  shouldn't have done that.
• 5:45
  Should have started way smaller.
• 5:46
  It should have
• 5:46
  launched a brand from scratch.
• 5:48
  But yeah, I think that you kind of have
• 5:50
  to take those things into consideration.
• 5:52
  If you're, if you're like debating it and
• 5:54
  you're like, Hey, I've got 50 grand
• 5:56
  to spare and I'm ready to take the risk.
• 5:59
  And I feel like the team that I have in
• 6:00
  place at the agency allows me to step
• 6:02
  away for 10, 15 hours a week to go kind
• 6:05
  of get this thing rolling.
• 6:07
  Um, I say do it, then give it a shot.
• 6:09
  But I mean, definitely
• 6:10
  prepared to torch that entire 50 K.
• 6:12
  Um, especially on the first one, like we
• 6:15
  are on technically brand number six
• 6:17
  right now in the portfolio.
• 6:19
  Um, a few of the first ones didn't like
• 6:21
  pan out to be massive.
• 6:22
  I mean, we got lucky.
• 6:23
  How has been like chipping away and a
• 6:25
  little bit slower growth out of the gate.
• 6:26
  But yeah, I mean, I think you just have
• 6:27
  to be prepared to on time side and
• 6:29
  financially and what you're really
• 6:31
  willing to risk on that front.
• 6:33
  Yeah.
• 6:34
  I think just to add on the financial
• 6:35
  piece of it, I don't
• 6:37
  have an opinion one way
• 6:37
  or another on what any
• 6:39
  individual person should do.
• 6:40
  I think you covered that really well.
• 6:41
  I think agency people think that running
• 6:44
  a brand is easier than it is because they
• 6:46
  get to do the marketing stuff.
• 6:48
  Um, and I'm not saying this is this was
• 6:49
  just that said this, and I don't think
• 6:51
  just as extremely smart, so I don't, um,
• 6:53
  this is not a knock on him directly.
• 6:54
  If you, if you haven't been involved in P
• 6:57
  and L conversations and ops
• 6:58
  conversations with clients and helping
• 7:00
  like guide some of that decision making,
• 7:02
  you're going to get slapped in the face.
• 7:03
  The first time you have to do that now
• 7:05
  that you're not capable of doing it.
• 7:06
  But I think people are under for a little
• 7:07
  bit of a rude awakening with that.
• 7:09
  Uh, and then the cash flow consideration,
• 7:10
  it's extremely different.
• 7:12
  It is just a fundamentally different
• 7:13
  business model from cash, a cash
• 7:15
  position and agency assuming you bill up
• 7:17
  front or with even reasonable 30 day
• 7:19
  terms, like you have way more cash in an
• 7:21
  agency business than you probably ever
• 7:23
  will, uh, or for several
• 7:25
  years in, in an e-com business.
• 7:27
  So I think that just be cautious.
• 7:29
  Yeah.
• 7:29
  Just to be like very blunt, we got
• 7:31
  homestead to a million in annual revenue.
• 7:33
  And I didn't know how to read a P and L
• 7:34
  at all, like zero, like that's not
• 7:36
  possible with the, with the DZ brand.
• 7:39
  You need to know exactly where all your
• 7:40
  cash is and what you're losing money
• 7:41
  on and what you're spending it on.
• 7:43
  Right.
• 7:43
  It's just much easier to do in an agency
• 7:45
  space where it's like, here's how much
• 7:46
  money I have in my checking account and
• 7:48
  how much money is coming in based on what
• 7:49
  we just sent on QuickBooks invoices.
• 7:51
  I usually get paid within X amount of
• 7:53
  period or a few days late, like let's go
• 7:55
  hire another person and keep pushing up.
• 7:57
  So, I mean, again, that's like me saying
• 7:59
  how dumb I was when I started the
• 8:00
  agency, but like, it's very, it's much
• 8:02
  harder to do that properly.
• 8:03
  Like Brad said on the brand side.
• 8:05
  I mean, I would say
• 8:06
  that it's also two things.
• 8:07
  One is, is like, what do you want to do?
• 8:09
  Is that actually
• 8:10
  something you want to do?
• 8:11
  Is it because you want to have a brand
• 8:13
  because it's cool to have a brand or is
• 8:14
  this actually something you want to do
• 8:15
  because you think it's interesting and
• 8:16
  it's going to add
• 8:17
  something unique to the world.
• 8:19
  That's a big difference.
• 8:20
  And it's going to show in the way that
• 8:21
  you go through and the way that you're
• 8:22
  working late at night for it.
• 8:24
  If you really are like,
• 8:25
  this is a great product.
• 8:26
  And I believe in this and I like this
• 8:27
  versus I want to launch this because
• 8:28
  it's a good idea.
• 8:30
  The other thing that I would say is, you
• 8:32
  know, going through and allocating, like
• 8:34
  if you want to just do it from an agency
• 8:36
  to say, Hey, I want to have a brand.
• 8:38
  I want to get it going, then like have a
• 8:40
  plan for how you will market it and how
• 8:41
  it will be part of the journey for you
• 8:43
  getting more leads in your agency.
• 8:45
  That's a lot of people's like, it's like,
• 8:46
  Oh, I'm starting this brand.
• 8:47
  But then it's like, well, what are you
• 8:48
  going to do with it?
• 8:49
  It's like, well, we're not sure.
• 8:49
  We're getting it off the ground.
• 8:51
  It's like from day one,
• 8:52
  you'd be posting about it, right?
• 8:54
  That's going to be a transparent thing
• 8:55
  that people identify with because brand
• 8:56
  owners that could be your potential
• 8:58
  customers are there or have been there.
• 9:00
  And that's going to be a way that you can
• 9:01
  connect with them right away.
• 9:02
  There was a bunch of questions that came
• 9:04
  in about, well, basically like scaling
• 9:06
  and how you scale.
• 9:07
  And we've covered this in the last
• 9:08
  episode of like, how do you go through
• 9:10
  and scale and a
• 9:11
  little bit of the playbook?
• 9:13
  That's a, it's a hot playbook, honestly.
• 9:15
  And if you haven't listened to the
• 9:16
  episode, go back and listen to it.
• 9:17
  Yeah.
• 9:17
  So it's episode eight.
• 9:18
  We're checking out for us to ask how to
• 9:20
  scale from zero to 10 K 10 K to 100 K.
• 9:24
  I will ask what's needed to go from 50 K
• 9:26
  and spend to a hundred K a day and spend.
• 9:29
  And then, you know, Garrett asked, Matt
• 9:33
  asked, how do you love your campaign
• 9:36
  structures you're using for scaling and
• 9:39
  testing and how it goes.
• 9:41
  And we've talked about this a whole, you
• 9:42
  know, obviously a bunch, I would say
• 9:44
  predominantly it comes down to creative
• 9:46
  and your systems for getting creative.
• 9:48
  Into the, into, you know, the, this into
• 9:51
  your workflow and not just creative,
• 9:53
  but personas as well and unlocking new
• 9:56
  personas and unlocking offer testing
• 9:59
  and landing page and,
• 10:01
  you know, CRO testing.
• 10:03
  Other things you guys want to say about
• 10:04
  scaling from one level to another.
• 10:07
  A lot of folks seem to be interested in
• 10:08
  sort of like the, the one K to five
• 10:10
  K or the 50 to a hundred.
• 10:13
  And I don't know that
• 10:13
  actually they're that different.
• 10:15
  Yeah. I think the zero to one is pretty
• 10:17
  different than some of
• 10:18
  the scaling up stuff.
• 10:19
  I think at the zero to one, you're just
• 10:20
  trying to find anything
• 10:21
  that works that you can lean into.
• 10:23
  So generally what that
• 10:24
  looks like is going wide.
• 10:25
  I think Zach has laid
• 10:27
  this out pretty nicely.
• 10:28
  I think in episode eight, when we talked
• 10:29
  about kind of this, this playbook
• 10:31
  generally speaking and another podcast, I
• 10:33
  know he's been on, kind of like laying
• 10:35
  out, go wide with the messaging, use
• 10:36
  statics, because it's easier to crank
• 10:38
  statics out, you can be, if it focuses
• 10:40
  you to be clearer and more concise
• 10:42
  with the messaging
• 10:43
  that you're looking for.
• 10:44
  So I think getting from zero to something
• 10:46
  is just trying to go wide with what can
• 10:49
  have the potential to work.
• 10:50
  And then once you have any evidence of
• 10:52
  success in any of those things, it's
• 10:53
  like, in my opinion, it's kind of
• 10:55
  obsessively focusing on
• 10:56
  whatever that one thing is.
• 10:58
  So if it's a specific persona, how can
• 11:00
  you get more out of that?
• 11:01
  And what we talked about in that episode,
• 11:02
  just to give you a quick highlight
• 11:03
  is you kind of take that
• 11:04
  and diversify the messaging.
• 11:06
  Like how can that, that same kind of
• 11:07
  thing be used across similar types of
• 11:10
  messaging for the same persona, but maybe
• 11:11
  slightly different angles of it.
• 11:13
  How can you take the
• 11:14
  static, turn it into a video?
• 11:15
  That's kind of how to expand that and get
• 11:16
  the creative flywheel rolling
• 11:17
  around that, whatever that is, that's
• 11:19
  working, match it up with a landing
• 11:20
  page that is consistent with the message.
• 11:23
  Is there anything you could do with the
• 11:24
  offer that compounds it further?
• 11:26
  Can you go into the whitelisting route?
• 11:27
  Like there's, there's a bunch of
• 11:28
  different steps that you can take, but I
• 11:29
  think zero to one is starting wide.
• 11:31
  It's like, maybe you have some opinions
• 11:32
  on that as well, but I think it'd be
• 11:34
  interesting for you to talk
• 11:35
  about the scale part of it.
• 11:37
  Five to 10 to 10 to a
• 11:39
  hundred or whatever you want.
• 11:40
  Yeah.
• 11:41
  I mean, like we, just this last week, we
• 11:44
  ran into inventory stuff, uh, back
• 11:46
  half of June and then finally got in a
• 11:48
  better spot and we're prepping
• 11:50
  hauls for fourth of July sales.
• 11:51
  So, I mean, when we were looking at the
• 11:53
  thirds, this was what the fourth
• 11:55
  was on Friday.
• 11:56
  So this was Thursday and meta.
• 11:57
  We were spending 32 K a day on that day
• 12:00
  on the fourth or on the third.
• 12:02
  Sorry.
• 12:04
  We had one, two, three, four, five, six,
• 12:06
  seven, eight, nine, 10 campaigns
• 12:08
  running in our ad account.
• 12:09
  And of those, we have one, two, three,
• 12:12
  four that were just focused on sale
• 12:14
  campaigns that were basically sale
• 12:16
  creatives and
• 12:17
  everything else was evergreen.
• 12:18
  We, we break up the
• 12:19
  campaign by partner whitelisting.
• 12:22
  We break it out by product.
• 12:24
  Like for us, we might break out like a
• 12:26
  compression sock versus
• 12:27
  like a trade sock or whatever.
• 12:29
  And then we have our
• 12:30
  creative testing campaign.
• 12:31
  All of those for the most part are ABOs
• 12:33
  that are kind of like our evergreen
• 12:34
  campaigns.
• 12:35
  And then when it's time to scale them,
• 12:36
  we'll roll out like a CBO right now.
• 12:38
  We're running lowest cost for the most
• 12:40
  part, almost entirely across our ad
• 12:41
  account, we had some issues getting cost
• 12:43
  controls to spend at the rates that we
• 12:45
  wanted to, but the point that I'm trying
• 12:47
  to make here is cool.
• 12:48
  We have 10 campaigns on Thursday,
• 12:50
  spending 32 grand in meta on Sunday, the
• 12:53
  sixth, we spent 76 grand in meta and we
• 12:56
  killed one of those campaigns off.
• 12:58
  So we literally had the
• 12:59
  same exact campaigns running.
• 13:01
  All we did was push budget up.
• 13:03
  So I think like in theory, what Andrew
• 13:06
  said is very right, which is you're
• 13:07
  going to do the same thing.
• 13:09
  You're just going to see the performance
• 13:10
  that indicates that your new customer
• 13:11
  rise is so strong on a daily basis that
• 13:14
  even like in the morning, it's like,
• 13:15
  Oh my gosh, when your customer is above a
• 13:16
  two or above three, like we can
• 13:18
  definitely push here and that just allows
• 13:20
  you to like push into more spend.
• 13:21
  I mean, I think even for Apple ovens or
• 13:24
  running Apple oven right now, we were
• 13:25
  at like five grand a day sale period
• 13:27
  comes around, we double budget from five
• 13:29
  to 10, nothing complicated.
• 13:31
  We have one campaign in
• 13:32
  there, 20 assets running.
• 13:34
  They're the best video, basically reels
• 13:36
  ads from Facebook and meta ads.
• 13:39
  Copy them over to that.
• 13:40
  Um, one campaign letter, it doubled it
• 13:43
  from five to 10, 10 to 15, 15 to 20
• 13:45
  over the course of four days.
• 13:47
  Again, it's like not
• 13:48
  that complicated to do.
• 13:50
  It's more just about having the right
• 13:52
  tools in place that the performance
• 13:54
  is so strong that then you can push it.
• 13:56
  It's really nothing more complicated than
• 13:57
  that from what I'm seeing.
• 13:58
  So it's not like we're doing
• 13:59
  some crazy campaign structure.
• 14:01
  It's not like we're
• 14:01
  doing anything wild there.
• 14:03
  It's your normal standard playbook,
• 14:05
  creative testing in an ABO or in a CBO,
• 14:08
  let the best ads and the best ad sets
• 14:10
  pull up the spend and that's really it.
• 14:12
  So I think like a lot of
• 14:14
  people overcomplicate it.
• 14:15
  And I think a lot of it comes down to, do
• 14:16
  you have really good ads?
• 14:17
  Do you have a really good offer?
• 14:19
  Have you proven out landing pages and
• 14:21
  then have you killed off landing pages
• 14:22
  that are maybe pulling down your average
• 14:25
  row as, cause like that was something
• 14:26
  going into the sale, we had like eight
• 14:27
  landing pages running.
• 14:28
  We cut it down to three.
• 14:30
  So like, these are the top three.
• 14:31
  Why would we even spend?
• 14:32
  Even if we want to test something
• 14:33
  different during the sale period, get
• 14:35
  rid of the, get rid of the nuance, get
• 14:36
  rid of like the variables and just
• 14:39
  put it all, put all
• 14:40
  your chips in at once.
• 14:41
  So to me, that's how we think about it.
• 14:43
  Usually that's how we scale even over
• 14:45
  like a black Friday period.
• 14:46
  I remember like we had maybe
• 14:47
  10 campaigns going into the day.
• 14:50
  Some of those budgets, we would just like
• 14:51
  X and just be like, okay, we're
• 14:53
  ready to spend, let's see what happens.
• 14:54
  It wasn't anything more
• 14:55
  complicated than that.
• 14:56
  So to me, it's more about having those
• 14:58
  right first variables before you can
• 15:00
  actually hit the gas than anything else.
• 15:02
  Yeah.
• 15:02
  I mean, we use the Frankenstein method.
• 15:06
  Jizz.
• 15:06
  No, I'm just kidding.
• 15:07
  You bring things back
• 15:08
  from where we go near you.
• 15:09
  You bring things back
• 15:10
  from the dead at 70.
• 15:12
  Yeah.
• 15:12
  That's there.
• 15:13
  Yeah.
• 15:13
  And they're all $1 different.
• 15:16
  And then we use the bolt method.
• 15:19
  Right.
• 15:20
  The double up triple up method that
• 15:21
  people joke about on Twitter is real.
• 15:23
  Like, yeah, that's the reality of it.
• 15:25
  If things are working, you can literally
• 15:26
  double budgets and things right out.
• 15:28
  It's totally fine.
• 15:30
  So yeah.
• 15:30
  I mean, that's not that exciting of an
• 15:32
  answer, but that's the truth of what
• 15:34
  we literally just did this last week.
• 15:35
  So yeah.
• 15:36
  Yeah.
• 15:36
  I mean, to dig into the specifics of the
• 15:38
  campaign structure question from Matt,
• 15:40
  like Facebook actually has like some
• 15:42
  decent meta, Facebook, whatever, has it
• 15:44
  actually has some like recommendations
• 15:45
  around this and that Yoni on Twitter
• 15:48
  has called this out as like, you should
• 15:50
  have a specific business case for
• 15:51
  splitting out into new
• 15:52
  campaigns, just like that.
• 15:54
  And that's how we look at it, the lens
• 15:55
  that we look at it through.
• 15:56
  So what that looks like in practice is if
• 15:58
  you let's simplify it and say you have,
• 15:59
  you're a single SKU brand, you should
• 16:01
  probably have one campaign for a very
• 16:02
  long time until you start to
• 16:04
  introduce like more offers.
• 16:06
  We were talking like you should be
• 16:07
  spending several thousand dollars a day
• 16:08
  before I think you need to be branching
• 16:10
  off into new campaigns and even
• 16:12
  ad sets in my opinion.
• 16:13
  Personally, I'm not a huge fan of
• 16:15
  creative testing ad sets.
• 16:16
  I think they're okay.
• 16:17
  But I think at the end of the day, like
• 16:18
  you can keep it very simple and you
• 16:20
  start to add when you have a business
• 16:21
  case to do so, which is you need to hold
• 16:23
  the campaign to a specific target because
• 16:25
  it have different margins or it's a
• 16:27
  different product or it's a limited time
• 16:29
  sale thing where again, kind of a
• 16:30
  margin conversation, but have a specific
• 16:32
  business case for splitting it out.
• 16:34
  In my opinion,
• 16:35
  one thing I was curious, you know, you
• 16:36
  guys looked like I do too about within
• 16:38
  and this is a scaling question is like as
• 16:40
  people are scaling and we got this,
• 16:41
  this is from, uh, from Garrett going
• 16:43
  through the bottlenecks that people face.
• 16:46
  We all look at a lot of ad accounts and
• 16:47
  where the bottlenecks are and what you
• 16:49
  see looking at all these accounts of
• 16:51
  like, why can't we scale?
• 16:52
  I'll just, I'll just go
• 16:53
  answer my own question first.
• 16:54
  This is classic Andrew Foxwell.
• 16:56
  But which is like the bottleneck
• 16:59
  generally that I see is
• 17:01
  that they keep doing the
• 17:03
  same thing and there hasn't been any
• 17:05
  innovation of the things that we've just
• 17:07
  aforementioned.
• 17:08
  So it's like, there's, you know, over and
• 17:11
  over not trying anything new, hasn't been
• 17:13
  any new products has driven to the same
• 17:15
  landing page, you know, like it's, and
• 17:18
  it's like, why can't we
• 17:19
  keep turning up the budget?
• 17:20
  It's like, well, you know, it's, goes
• 17:22
  back to what I taught
• 17:23
  in the scaling course
• 17:24
  that, you know, you guys took and Zach,
• 17:26
  the homestead, all your employees tell me
• 17:27
  that they go through, it's like the
• 17:29
  horizontal scaling method, which is like,
• 17:31
  you can't just take
• 17:32
  one thing, turn it up.
• 17:33
  You have to have, it covers a broad base
• 17:35
  of who you're talking to, why reasoning
• 17:38
  creative, and then,
• 17:39
  you know, go that way.
• 17:40
  I don't know what other like common
• 17:41
  bottlenecks do you guys see from
• 17:43
  scaling from a scaling standpoint?
• 17:45
  Yeah.
• 17:45
  I have a specific example of
• 17:46
  mine from a client recently.
• 17:48
  Sometimes it manifests
• 17:48
  itself in different ways.
• 17:49
  And I think if you go back to not to
• 17:52
  like, keep plugging
• 17:52
  in a previous episode,
• 17:53
  but like the point of that episode where
• 17:55
  we talked about the playbook was to give
• 17:56
  you a bunch of different options for
• 17:58
  things you can go
• 17:58
  change because it could,
• 18:00
  it could be several of them.
• 18:01
  It could be one of them.
• 18:02
  So I think you have to pick one and kind
• 18:03
  of commit to doing that.
• 18:04
  So let me go into a specific example.
• 18:06
  We had a client who basically had like
• 18:08
  one winning ad, like they had just
• 18:09
  kind of kicked off running ads founder
• 18:11
  video doing really well, but we run
• 18:13
  into a point where we increased budget
• 18:15
  and efficiency just drops.
• 18:17
  And there's no marginal benefit of
• 18:18
  increasing the budget.
• 18:19
  And at that point, it seemed to be the
• 18:21
  whole was that we needed some
• 18:24
  additional creative, right?
• 18:25
  Like we have one video that's working.
• 18:27
  If you look in your ad account right now
• 18:28
  and you are being carried by one video or
• 18:30
  one static or one piece of creative,
• 18:32
  there's likely some potential that you
• 18:33
  have the ability to diversify around away
• 18:36
  from that, you know, at a thousand to
• 18:38
  2000, 3000 bucks a day, you can get away
• 18:40
  with one or two, but if you want to get,
• 18:43
  you know, higher than that, you need, you
• 18:44
  need a lot more that's making up a 10
• 18:46
  plus percent of your
• 18:47
  spend than just one ad.
• 18:49
  So for them, it was, okay, what's the
• 18:51
  messaging that's working for them?
• 18:52
  I was speaking to a specific persona
• 18:54
  about the challenges that they face,
• 18:55
  which is very blank away of saying, like,
• 18:57
  I'll just use a random example.
• 18:58
  That's not them old men
• 19:00
  with really bad eyesight.
• 19:02
  Like they needed a
• 19:03
  solution for this thing.
• 19:04
  So we dug into that a little bit more
• 19:06
  with launching some review.
• 19:08
  We took, we took reviews, we turned them
• 19:09
  into like video versions of the review
• 19:12
  or it was like an AI
• 19:12
  voiceover reading the review.
• 19:14
  Cool.
• 19:14
  Now we've got another additional winner.
• 19:15
  Now we have two ads making up 40 or 80%
• 19:18
  of the budget and the rest of the 20%
• 19:20
  made up by the rest of the ad account.
• 19:22
  And we, we, we once again ran into this
• 19:23
  issue of we increased the budget.
• 19:25
  All that happens is now row as degrades.
• 19:27
  We don't actually get a
• 19:28
  marginal marginal win in revenue.
• 19:30
  The next thing that we did was how do we
• 19:31
  make a landing page that is
• 19:33
  cohesive with the messaging of, um, uh,
• 19:36
  just made a five reasons why landing
• 19:37
  page that pretty much exactly mimicked
• 19:39
  the flow of the couple of top ads and
• 19:41
  that up unlocked an
• 19:42
  additional 40% of spent.
• 19:44
  So I think like you'll know that it's
• 19:46
  happening because you can't push spend
• 19:48
  anymore without a massive degradation in
• 19:49
  row as, or you just get nothing
• 19:51
  additional and you just go, you know, I
• 19:53
  think you can kind of go chip away.
• 19:55
  I'm not a big fan of like using
• 19:56
  benchmarks and ad accounts for those
• 19:58
  things, because I think they can be
• 19:59
  really easily, um, rinsed out, but
• 20:01
  there's, yeah, I have really no notes.
• 20:02
  I think Brad nailed that.
• 20:03
  I think it's go back to
• 20:05
  that episode, listen to it.
• 20:06
  We gave like whatever seven different
• 20:08
  things that could be the issue.
• 20:10
  And just pick one a week and try it and
• 20:12
  see if that can, can unlock it.
• 20:13
  Cause yeah, I mean, it's usually offer.
• 20:16
  Like if I'm, if I'm being like super
• 20:17
  straight up, it's like, if you can
• 20:19
  change the offer and the ad account could
• 20:20
  turn around overnight, um, and you
• 20:22
  could push up more scale because now
• 20:23
  consumers are realizing, Oh, this is
• 20:25
  easier to understand, or it's easier to
• 20:28
  unlock or whatever that might be.
• 20:30
  So if I had to pick one
• 20:31
  thing, that's usually the biggest
• 20:33
  thing that has the most leverage.
• 20:34
  We got multiple questions about how you
• 20:36
  use debt to grow and how do you
• 20:38
  advise brands to think about this?
• 20:41
  Yeah.
• 20:41
  I mean, for hollow specifically, um,
• 20:45
  we've used a lot of debt to get to where
• 20:46
  we're at now, I mean, we're bootstrap
• 20:48
  business, um, to go from one to eight
• 20:52
  to 21 to whatever we'll do this year, 40
• 20:55
  something hopefully.
• 20:57
  Yeah.
• 20:58
  It just takes a lot of money to buy a lot
• 20:59
  of socks to sell them.
• 21:00
  Right.
• 21:01
  So I think usually
• 21:03
  brands are starting out.
• 21:04
  They're looking at like Shopify capital,
• 21:05
  cause it's very easy and accessible.
• 21:08
  There's a bunch of other lenders, which,
• 21:10
  you know, way flyers like our
• 21:13
  lender of choice,
• 21:13
  they've worked with us a lot.
• 21:14
  There's great ones settled.
• 21:15
  There's a handful of them that are there
• 21:17
  that are awesome, but way flyers
• 21:18
  been the one that's been kind of there to
• 21:20
  support us and always been there to
• 21:21
  like be there when things get a little
• 21:23
  tough, even some at some point.
• 21:24
  So for us with our kind of cash
• 21:27
  conversion cycle for that business
• 21:29
  specifically, we buy all of our raw
• 21:31
  materials at front, which is pretty rare.
• 21:33
  Sometimes you can buy a finished good
• 21:34
  material from your manufacturer because
• 21:35
  we're making socks out of alpaca.
• 21:36
  It's just very unique.
• 21:37
  And none of the manufacturers in the U S
• 21:39
  for one, take that big of a bet on buying
• 21:41
  millions of dollars of this alpaca yarn
• 21:43
  that they were like, I don't even know
• 21:44
  what this is, we had
• 21:45
  to find a way to do it.
• 21:46
  And so that was really our option.
• 21:48
  Usually how that works is you have to get
• 21:51
  to a certain size and scale out of the
• 21:52
  gate to kind of prove
• 21:54
  that you can produce profits.
• 21:55
  So for us, it was like a million five,
• 21:57
  our first year, I think we did like
• 21:58
  200, 300 K to the bottom line.
• 22:00
  And at that rate, we were, we were
• 22:02
  basically saying, Hey, We can do this
• 22:04
  at more scale we're profitable in our
• 22:06
  first real year here.
• 22:07
  We just need more dollars to go buy more
• 22:09
  product to keep growing.
• 22:10
  And I'll be like, very honest, like it
• 22:12
  was definitely much easier in years past
• 22:13
  to get debt as consumer in
• 22:16
  general was just healthier.
• 22:17
  The market was healthier.
• 22:18
  Things like that.
• 22:20
  A lot of these lenders were much more
• 22:21
  easy to just hand out
• 22:22
  dollars to say, yeah,
• 22:22
  go grow, go grow your business.
• 22:24
  Now it's very profit driven.
• 22:25
  You cannot not be
• 22:26
  profitable and go ask for debt.
• 22:28
  You have to be profitable and have a path
• 22:30
  of continuous, continued profitability.
• 22:32
  For us, I mean, it was in the beginning
• 22:34
  and it's kind of a little bit of Shopify
• 22:35
  capital, a little bit of money from way
• 22:37
  flyer, using credit cards to try and like
• 22:39
  work our way through, uh, pushing back
• 22:42
  payments on fulfillment costs or ad
• 22:44
  spend or whatever, but, um, I mean, for
• 22:47
  us, we absolutely needed it to grow
• 22:50
  to where we're at now.
• 22:51
  I mean, we couldn't, we
• 22:52
  just couldn't have done it.
• 22:53
  If we tried to just bootstrap our way,
• 22:54
  we'd probably be, you know, and maybe
• 22:56
  8 million this year versus, you know,
• 22:59
  two, two and a half, three years ago.
• 23:00
  And I mean, the truth of it
• 23:01
  is it's risk tolerance too.
• 23:03
  I naturally have like
• 23:04
  pretty high risk tolerance.
• 23:06
  And pretty high conviction in myself,
• 23:07
  Brad is, you know, I
• 23:08
  think Brad and Andrew
• 23:09
  can definitely confirm that, but that's
• 23:11
  where a lot of it comes.
• 23:13
  Like you have to know where you're going
• 23:14
  to allocate those dollars and how you're
• 23:16
  going to pay those people back.
• 23:17
  Otherwise, you know, you,
• 23:17
  you risk losing the business.
• 23:20
  I definitely wouldn't be where we are
• 23:21
  either without like our head of finance.
• 23:23
  Jacob, who's just been an absolute savage
• 23:25
  at this stuff, building incredible
• 23:26
  cashflow forecast, incredible like
• 23:28
  modeling, um, to help these lenders
• 23:31
  understand how we think about allocating
• 23:32
  their dollars and obviously returning
• 23:35
  capital back to them.
• 23:36
  So yeah, I think risk
• 23:37
  tolerance is a huge part of it.
• 23:39
  I totally agree.
• 23:40
  Brad, any notes on that?
• 23:42
  Hey, this is Andrew Foxville and I'll
• 23:43
  tell you one platform
• 23:44
  I'm testing now is Roku.
• 23:46
  One thing I love about Roku is that it's
• 23:48
  the number one TV streaming platform
• 23:50
  accounting for 47% of all streaming time
• 23:53
  in the U S as of 2024 and reaches 125
• 23:57
  million households from the
• 23:59
  Roku home screen each day.
• 24:01
  It integrates with
• 24:02
  Shopify, which is pretty cool.
• 24:03
  You can literally have someone shop.
• 24:05
  On their TV using Roku with Shopify.
• 24:08
  The targeting is on point.
• 24:09
  You can use custom audiences has, you
• 24:11
  know, pretty legit
• 24:12
  demographic drill downs.
• 24:14
  You can have a pixel as
• 24:15
  well to track success.
• 24:17
  And if you spend a thousand dollars
• 24:18
  testing it, they give you a thousand
• 24:20
  dollars of credit using code Foxwell.
• 24:23
  You know, it works like one D to C brand
• 24:26
  that I'm aware of increasing conversions
• 24:27
  by 25% using repurposed social video ads,
• 24:30
  which is pretty cool.
• 24:31
  And another D to C brand saw a 3.3 time
• 24:34
  row as from Roku movie, you
• 24:37
  know, using a triple M to prove it.
• 24:39
  You know, if you're not doing anything
• 24:40
  else, you can also just remark it to
• 24:42
  people on your list, using the custom
• 24:44
  audiences feature, taking pre-existing
• 24:46
  social content and putting it right on
• 24:48
  Roku and running it to make sure that
• 24:49
  you're in front of as many people as you
• 24:51
  can be, or as many of those customers
• 24:53
  as you can be in Q4 and Q3.
• 24:55
  So hopefully you will give it a shot.
• 24:58
  If you're interested, go to
• 24:59
  foxwelldigital.com forward slash Roku
• 25:02
  and go ahead and click to get started.
• 25:04
  So we have some questions that came in
• 25:06
  about like starting out
• 25:07
  where, what would you do?
• 25:09
  So I'll ask, uh, I'll
• 25:11
  ask you Brad right away.
• 25:12
  If you, this is from Sean G Sean G.
• 25:15
  If you were launching a new D to C brand
• 25:17
  from scratch, would you choose
• 25:18
  a product with tight seasonality windows
• 25:21
  with high first order value, but
• 25:22
  weaker LTV or be an evergreen product
• 25:25
  with lower first order value, but
• 25:26
  stronger LTV over one to two years?
• 25:30
  Curious what you think is trade-offs.
• 25:31
  I obviously have my answer for Brad.
• 25:33
  Yeah.
• 25:34
  I mean, I lean towards the better LTV
• 25:36
  just because you'll have more consistent
• 25:38
  cashflow throughout the year.
• 25:40
  Like at the end of the day, though, like
• 25:41
  both have, I think Alex from Ozy says
• 25:43
  this, like all
• 25:44
  businesses have shit or something.
• 25:45
  So like they all have it.
• 25:46
  Like your acquisition costs are probably
• 25:47
  going to be tougher on the evergreen
• 25:49
  products because you're competing with a
• 25:50
  bunch of people throughout the
• 25:51
  entire year who probably have something
• 25:52
  similar with a tight, it's hard
• 25:54
  without like a specific product in mind,
• 25:56
  but a product with tight seasonality
• 25:57
  window, high, high first order value,
• 26:00
  meaning like what is high, you know, we
• 26:02
  work with clients who have a $5,000 first
• 26:04
  time AOV and like, yeah, that's
• 26:06
  great, but you know how much you have to
• 26:08
  spend in order to get that customer.
• 26:09
  It's like you're spending $2,000 to know
• 26:10
  if an ad's going to work.
• 26:12
  Whereas like a $40, a $40 AOV, you can,
• 26:15
  you can spend the same and you're out of
• 26:18
  learning and ripping really fast.
• 26:19
  So I would lean towards the lower first
• 26:22
  order value if it's kind of something
• 26:25
  that you're just getting used to, unless
• 26:27
  you have a really compelling, unique
• 26:28
  advantage to for the higher AOV product,
• 26:31
  because it's probably more competitive,
• 26:33
  but you can learn substantially faster.
• 26:36
  And I think the cashflow would probably
• 26:37
  be better as a result of that, not to get
• 26:38
  like super fluffy woo over a second, but
• 26:40
  like, I think there's important
• 26:42
  considerations for like having your like
• 26:46
  benchmarks for what is a good business,
• 26:48
  high margin, high LTV, whatever,
• 26:51
  depending on the category.
• 26:51
  But it also helps like really enjoy the
• 26:53
  category or be somewhat involved in the
• 26:55
  category.
• 26:55
  So you have some kind of unique advantage
• 26:57
  in that way of like
• 26:58
  how to talk to people,
• 26:59
  which is ironic coming from an agency
• 27:00
  where we work with the brands across a
• 27:01
  bunch of different things.
• 27:02
  But yeah, that's, that's where my gut
• 27:04
  says is the latter of the, those two.
• 27:06
  You know, what I'm doing is I'm going to
• 27:07
  start, I'm going to start a box
• 27:09
  subscription company.
• 27:10
  I don't know if you guys have heard of
• 27:11
  these, but I'm bringing it back from
• 27:13
  2010 when they were hot.
• 27:16
  Hell yeah.
• 27:17
  It's going to be incredible.
• 27:18
  It's going to be a
• 27:19
  subscription brand curated goods.
• 27:21
  Curated goods that you throw away after
• 27:23
  three months and it's
• 27:25
  going to be incredible.
• 27:26
  Your 90 day LTV is great, but after that
• 27:28
  cooked, that's what I'm going for.
• 27:30
  Yeah.
• 27:30
  I mean, obviously we have brands now kind
• 27:33
  of that fit both of these categories.
• 27:34
  And if I'm going to do it again in the
• 27:36
  future, it's
• 27:36
  definitely going to be number
• 27:38
  B, like it's going to be the higher LTV
• 27:39
  subscription, heavy business for the
• 27:41
  reason that you can like stack wins.
• 27:43
  Right.
• 27:43
  And I mean, like a lot of these brands
• 27:45
  that are one time purchase, getting
• 27:47
  someone back, you know, 30% of people
• 27:49
  back, even in the first year is like a
• 27:51
  good accomplishment, let alone can you
• 27:53
  get 50, 60% of people to buy again the
• 27:55
  next month with a subscription business,
• 27:57
  like pretty likely to do that.
• 27:59
  So yeah, I think that's the move.
• 28:01
  I think you just have to take into
• 28:02
  consideration the cashflow of that model,
• 28:04
  which is you're likely going to lose
• 28:05
  money on the first purchase and
• 28:06
  inquiring that customer,
• 28:08
  maybe not at a very small scale.
• 28:09
  So you can be profitable on first
• 28:10
  customer acquisition of a low way of the
• 28:14
  high LTV product, but with more scale,
• 28:16
  that's definitely going to get inverted
• 28:18
  from any brand that we've ever worked
• 28:19
  with or own now in that ecosystem.
• 28:22
  So you just have to kind of build that
• 28:23
  into your cashflow model of losing
• 28:25
  money on the front end
• 28:26
  and banking on the LTV.
• 28:28
  So yeah, that's
• 28:29
  definitely the move though.
• 28:29
  If I had to choose.
• 28:31
  So let's get to like a market research
• 28:33
  kind of question about what percentage
• 28:35
  of revenue should be spent on total
• 28:38
  marketing costs at
• 28:39
  different revenue sizes.
• 28:41
  What is a good profitability percentage
• 28:42
  goal at different stages?
• 28:43
  We've talked about
• 28:44
  this on another podcast.
• 28:45
  I know that this would be, you know,
• 28:46
  marketing spend includes marketing
• 28:48
  salaries, ad spend, subscriptions, free
• 28:50
  product, agency fees, et cetera.
• 28:53
  What do you guys think about this?
• 28:54
  I'm obviously looking at
• 28:55
  a lot of different brands.
• 28:56
  Do you want me to go first, Brad?
• 28:58
  I can go first.
• 28:59
  Okay.
• 28:59
  Let's just talk about a
• 29:00
  million a year business.
• 29:01
  Then we can go 10 and then
• 29:02
  we can go like 50, right?
• 29:04
  Million a year business.
• 29:06
  I would think you're going to
• 29:07
  spend 400 grand on marketing.
• 29:11
  I think you're going to
• 29:12
  probably put 300 grand.
• 29:15
  So 30% to cost of goods slash cost of
• 29:18
  delivery, maybe even 40%.
• 29:21
  So 400 K to that.
• 29:22
  And you're maybe going to
• 29:23
  put 10% to the bottom line.
• 29:25
  And that doesn't include
• 29:26
  like salaries, stuff like that.
• 29:29
  A million a year business is really,
• 29:30
  really hard in Ecom.
• 29:31
  It's just hard to make that work unless
• 29:33
  you're like a solopreneur or you have
• 29:35
  like a couple, maybe a freelancer or two
• 29:36
  at that scale, it's just very hard.
• 29:39
  It sounds like, Oh, a million dollars.
• 29:40
  It sounds great, but it really, in
• 29:41
  theory, it's very hard to back out once
• 29:43
  you start to factor everything else in.
• 29:45
  I would imagine at that rate, you're
• 29:47
  probably going to spend, you know,
• 29:49
  40% of your revenue.
• 29:51
  That number can probably stay fairly
• 29:53
  consistent, even at 10 million a year.
• 29:56
  If you're calling it marketing salaries,
• 29:58
  marketing budget, influencer,
• 30:00
  content, creative, all
• 30:01
  that stuff all included.
• 30:03
  I think like the standard that we like to
• 30:06
  see in our clients and even like with
• 30:08
  our own brands is like
• 30:09
  running at like a three M E R.
• 30:12
  So call it like somewhere in like the 30
• 30:13
  to 35% range that kind of fluctuates
• 30:15
  on a monthly basis is what you're
• 30:17
  spending on ad dollars.
• 30:18
  And then ideally you're in the 10%
• 30:21
  operating expenses range.
• 30:22
  Like that's 10% of revenue is kind of the
• 30:24
  sweet spot of where you want to be.
• 30:26
  Um, so it's 40% and then cost of
• 30:29
  delivery, probably still
• 30:30
  landing around 40% to get
• 30:31
  the, you know,
• 30:31
  products, the customer's door.
• 30:33
  So in a sweet spot at 10 million a year,
• 30:35
  you're probably 15% that profit would be
• 30:38
  a great target to shoot for.
• 30:39
  Um, 10 to 20 is probably like where we
• 30:42
  see a lot of brands sitting.
• 30:44
  So one to 2 million of EBIT on 10 million
• 30:47
  of revenue would be a great business.
• 30:48
  And then you push it up to 50 million.
• 30:50
  It all depends on like, if there's retail
• 30:52
  distribution or not, that'll definitely
• 30:53
  factor into like your margin at that
• 30:55
  point, assuming you're all D to C shop
• 30:58
  for Amazon, even if you're like 70, 30
• 31:00
  split 70 shop, 30 Amazon.
• 31:03
  I mean, you're probably running still at
• 31:05
  like a three M E R at the end of the day.
• 31:08
  You're probably still spending 30% of
• 31:10
  your budget on, on, on advertising,
• 31:11
  especially if you're
• 31:12
  trying to grow at a decent clip.
• 31:13
  Um, so yeah, I don't think
• 31:16
  that really changes a ton.
• 31:17
  I think it more depends on like how
• 31:20
  you're optimizing your operating
• 31:21
  expenses and not
• 31:23
  trying to scale those up.
• 31:24
  Like if you can be below 10% OpEx at 50
• 31:28
  million a year, you're doing great.
• 31:31
  And if you're also spending less than 30%
• 31:34
  of your, your revenue on advertising
• 31:35
  at 50 million year, you're
• 31:36
  probably doing really great too.
• 31:38
  So I would say that's kind of the
• 31:39
  baseline is kind of this like 10% OpEx,
• 31:42
  30% to cost of ads.
• 31:44
  That's 40%.
• 31:45
  You're probably 40% cost of delivery,
• 31:47
  meaning like the cost of the
• 31:48
  COGS, your product land in the U S pick
• 31:51
  pack ship fees at the customer's door.
• 31:53
  Maybe there's duties involved depending
• 31:55
  on if you're shipping international,
• 31:57
  that's where you're like 10 to 20% net
• 31:59
  profit kind of sits.
• 32:01
  Anything below 10%, you're
• 32:02
  like too tight on cashflow.
• 32:05
  Like you're not producing enough profit
• 32:06
  to even like cover cost of interest,
• 32:08
  things like that below 10% and then
• 32:10
  anything above 20%, you're likely not
• 32:12
  pushing enough growth unless your goal is
• 32:14
  like just kind of stabilize and
• 32:15
  just be really profitable.
• 32:16
  But for most brands that are trying to
• 32:18
  grow at 50 to a hundred percent year
• 32:20
  over year, that's usually what we see.
• 32:24
  Yeah.
• 32:24
  I mean, I think you did a good job of
• 32:25
  going through the true cost.
• 32:27
  I think there's an idea that a lot of
• 32:29
  people feel like they're,
• 32:30
  that number is different.
• 32:32
  I mean, and let's just say that the one
• 32:34
  that we see often, right?
• 32:34
  Which is the one to 10 million or the two
• 32:37
  to 10 million, right?
• 32:38
  Which is, I think the most common one we
• 32:39
  see or in there are exposed to,
• 32:42
  which is that there's going to be more
• 32:45
  money at there at the end of the day.
• 32:46
  And the reality is this is not the case
• 32:48
  today, especially if you're going to
• 32:49
  try to be a high growth brand.
• 32:51
  So I think, I think the other thing that
• 32:52
  I'll just like hit on, which I think
• 32:53
  is an interesting point, Brad might have
• 32:55
  some notes here is like how much
• 32:56
  money you're actually taking home as the
• 32:57
  business owner at that rate.
• 32:59
  Okay.
• 32:59
  So 40% goes to taxes.
• 33:01
  So there's 400 K boom gone.
• 33:03
  Then we have investing money back in
• 33:06
  paying for interest.
• 33:08
  Okay.
• 33:09
  That comes out.
• 33:09
  I mean, you're probably still only paying
• 33:11
  yourself like low six figures.
• 33:13
  If that, you know, so it's, it's crazy
• 33:15
  how much you really have to do in profit
• 33:17
  and e-comm for it to really kick out.
• 33:19
  And this is where like a lot of people
• 33:20
  talk about the agency model.
• 33:21
  They just, it's great.
• 33:22
  It's very high cashflow, much easier to
• 33:24
  take cash out of the business because
• 33:26
  you don't need to reinvest it back in to
• 33:28
  buy more things that often you can
• 33:30
  definitely grow, you know, your team and
• 33:32
  people at a steadier clip and a
• 33:34
  steady pace, but yeah, when it comes to
• 33:37
  e-comm, like that's probably the biggest
• 33:39
  misnumerators people are like, Oh wow.
• 33:40
  They're doing 20 million a year in
• 33:41
  revenue and they're doing 2 million or 3
• 33:43
  million in profit, like
• 33:44
  that owner must be killing it.
• 33:46
  He has, he's got to have Ferraris and all
• 33:47
  sorts of crazy shit that owners at 20
• 33:50
  million a year business doing 3 million
• 33:51
  in profit is probably making 300 K max.
• 33:53
  Like max max, which is kind of a crazy
• 33:55
  concept to think of.
• 33:57
  Yeah, which is still
• 33:58
  great on where you live.
• 34:00
  Yeah, right.
• 34:01
  You might be balling it
• 34:02
  up in Appleton, Wisconsin,
• 34:03
  you can kill it at 300 K in
• 34:06
  LA or in Foxwell's new home.
• 34:10
  Santa Barbara, that is not, that's not
• 34:12
  going to go very far.
• 34:13
  You're not getting guac on your Chipotle.
• 34:15
  If you're in Santa Barbara, you are not,
• 34:17
  that is not going to work.
• 34:18
  Yeah.
• 34:18
  Anyways, I just think that's an
• 34:19
  interesting and important
• 34:20
  thing to call out to on that.
• 34:21
  Yeah.
• 34:22
  Just one small side note to just add is
• 34:25
  like, I think, um, I think for a while
• 34:27
  people would be shocked to hear that
• 34:29
  you're spending 40% upwards of 40% more
• 34:32
  in some cases of your
• 34:34
  revenue on marketing.
• 34:35
  I think people are
• 34:35
  really shocked by that.
• 34:36
  And I think that's just like somewhat the
• 34:38
  reality unless you have a really unique,
• 34:41
  you know, you have strong LTV, you have,
• 34:43
  um, some kind of like organic moat, like
• 34:45
  there, there's a lot of things that could
• 34:46
  factor into that, but, um, it's kind of
• 34:48
  the, kind of the barrier of entry at this
• 34:50
  point, get used to it.
• 34:52
  And that's the thing I think that, that
• 34:53
  also, that number has changed
• 34:54
  significantly, okay?
• 34:56
  Like, you know, it used to
• 34:57
  be a different ball game.
• 34:58
  And I think that that
• 34:59
  that's the reality of today.
• 35:00
  And so that's why it's important.
• 35:01
  I think to talk about a Forex row as back
• 35:05
  in 2019 was a thing.
• 35:06
  It was just like, yeah, we're ripping it.
• 35:08
  We're at four.
• 35:09
  Cool.
• 35:09
  Sounds good.
• 35:09
  I'm not even that excited.
• 35:11
  Six, seven.
• 35:12
  I get excited.
• 35:12
  Now it's like seeing
• 35:14
  those numbers of four.
• 35:15
  M E R like 25% ad spend of your revenue
• 35:18
  is like, wow, they're killing it.
• 35:20
  Yeah.
• 35:20
  If you, this is, I know we have an
• 35:21
  episode where we like
• 35:22
  pick fights with people
• 35:23
  or not an episode, but
• 35:24
  there's like a segment at the end.
• 35:25
  So I'm going to pick
• 35:26
  a fight really quick.
• 35:27
  Yes.
• 35:27
  Be some of the pull
• 35:28
  beefs ahead a little bit.
• 35:29
  If you see somebody post a screenshot on
• 35:31
  Twitter and they are running meta ads
• 35:33
  that higher than a 10 X they are full of
• 35:35
  shit or they're not
• 35:36
  spending enough money.
• 35:37
  Like full stop.
• 35:37
  There's basically
• 35:38
  zero argument against it.
• 35:40
  Um, you should question that.
• 35:41
  And if it's, if it's substantially higher
• 35:43
  than a 10 X, they are lying.
• 35:44
  Pure like flat out, they're lying.
• 35:46
  So just going to throw that out there.
• 35:48
  My, that's my, that's my lead magnet for
• 35:50
  the founders membership
• 35:51
  is a 10 X screenshots.
• 35:53
  50 X 50 X.
• 35:54
  Yeah.
• 35:54
  If I stopped there.
• 35:55
  Yeah.
• 35:56
  Yeah.
• 35:56
  Yeah.
• 35:56
  Remember back in the days when I ran all
• 35:58
  the paid media for,
• 35:59
  um, peer Vita bracelets.
• 36:01
  And I remember they would get like, you
• 36:02
  know, 10 X it was like constantly.
• 36:04
  Right.
• 36:04
  And I remember they, there was a week
• 36:07
  period that they never responded to me
• 36:09
  with words, uh, it was only fire emojis.
• 36:14
  And that's all it was
• 36:15
  back in the 10 X days.
• 36:16
  So one person asked a question about
• 36:19
  financial realities of growing and the
• 36:21
  realities of growing a business super
• 36:22
  fast versus sort of bootstrapping it.
• 36:24
  And I think one, this, there's another
• 36:27
  person that has kind
• 36:28
  of a related question,
• 36:28
  which makes me think about what are the
• 36:31
  realities of running a business as a
• 36:34
  brand owner or as an agency owner really,
• 36:37
  but as a brand owner, since this podcast
• 36:38
  is for seven eight figure brand donors,
• 36:41
  primarily that isn't talked about.
• 36:43
  Like, what are the realities of this that
• 36:46
  people just don't talk about or get into?
• 36:49
  And when you're in person with people,
• 36:50
  Zach, or you're in person with people,
• 36:51
  Brad, or like you're having an honest
• 36:53
  conversation that you're talking about
• 36:55
  with them, what are the realities of this
• 36:57
  that you guys see that feel like
• 36:58
  aren't discussed ever?
• 37:00
  I think a lot of entrepreneurs are pretty
• 37:01
  broke until they have an exit.
• 37:03
  I think it's like one of the biggest
• 37:04
  things that I've had a lot of
• 37:06
  conversations about with people, no
• 37:08
  matter what, whatever
• 37:09
  category they're in,
• 37:10
  specifically brand owners, though,
• 37:12
  they're not killing it
• 37:12
  until they sell a business.
• 37:14
  Usually for the most part, especially if
• 37:15
  your business is under 10 million a year
• 37:16
  in revenue, it's really hard to like
• 37:18
  really put a lot of
• 37:19
  dollars in your own bank account.
• 37:21
  So that's one thing.
• 37:22
  The second thing is like, people see all
• 37:23
  these brands that
• 37:24
  raise VC money and they're
• 37:25
  like, man, the owner must
• 37:26
  be making millions a year.
• 37:28
  Usually they have a board and usually
• 37:30
  that board is like,
• 37:30
  nope, you have a salary
• 37:31
  and it's capped and they don't like
• 37:33
  seeing the owners
• 37:34
  taking wild distributions out
• 37:36
  of those businesses.
• 37:37
  So I think that's another thing that a
• 37:39
  lot of people have like a misnomer about
• 37:40
  of like, Hey, they
• 37:41
  raised all this VC money.
• 37:43
  They must be, this owner
• 37:44
  must be making so much money.
• 37:45
  Not always true.
• 37:46
  I've definitely learned that by having
• 37:47
  conversations with brands that are, are
• 37:49
  VC backed and they're like, yeah, I'm
• 37:51
  going to set salary.
• 37:52
  I actually like make more money on the
• 37:54
  side freelancing or some shit.
• 37:55
  But, um, that's, those are
• 37:57
  kind of two unique things.
• 37:59
  Brad, what do you got?
• 38:00
  Yeah.
• 38:00
  I mean, I think that we
• 38:01
  talked about it earlier.
• 38:02
  It's like the, just the cashflow
• 38:03
  considerations, like
• 38:04
  you don't just get to
• 38:05
  pull out a bunch of money whenever you
• 38:06
  want in a lot of circumstances until you
• 38:08
  start to hit those, those
• 38:09
  thresholds that you mentioned.
• 38:10
  I say this with a lot of love for
• 38:11
  everybody that does this is as somebody
• 38:13
  who's literally on a podcast right now,
• 38:14
  it was like, there's a reason a lot of
• 38:15
  brand people do podcasts, like their
• 38:17
  knowledge is extremely valuable.
• 38:18
  And like it, if they can get
• 38:20
  sponsorships, great.
• 38:22
  Like there's no, there's no cost
• 38:23
  associated with that
• 38:24
  other than their time.
• 38:24
  And if they have the
• 38:25
  access time, like cool.
• 38:26
  It's great to get a nice paycheck from,
• 38:28
  from a sponsorship thing, knowing that,
• 38:30
  um, like the brand, whether for growth
• 38:33
  reasons or because it's not big enough.
• 38:34
  Yeah.
• 38:34
  It's like, you just can't pull cash out.
• 38:36
  And again, like I don't think there's
• 38:36
  anything wrong with that.
• 38:37
  I have no shill sass all you want.
• 38:39
  Like we'll probably be doing it.
• 38:40
  So like, I have no concerns about it.
• 38:42
  It's just like, there's a reason that it
• 38:43
  happens at the scale that it does.
• 38:44
  And, um, I don't think it's, I don't
• 38:46
  think it's good or bad.
• 38:47
  It's just this.
• 38:48
  Yeah.
• 38:49
  Yeah.
• 38:49
  No, it's, it's rare to see.
• 38:50
  I mean, like, I think the standard from
• 38:52
  what I've heard is like, at most
• 38:54
  people are pulling like 20% distributions
• 38:57
  of like monthly net profit.
• 39:00
  If you got multiple,
• 39:01
  so here's another thing.
• 39:02
  If you got multiple co-founders, you'd
• 39:03
  really got to break that number down.
• 39:05
  Right.
• 39:05
  I think a lot of people
• 39:05
  don't think about that.
• 39:06
  They're like, Oh, I'm
• 39:06
  going to start this business.
• 39:07
  We've got like four
• 39:08
  awesome co-founders with me.
• 39:10
  It's like, you realize that how much
• 39:12
  profit you're going to have to do in a
• 39:13
  month to take a meaningful distribution
• 39:15
  is really going to get pretty small,
• 39:17
  especially with more
• 39:17
  cooks in the kitchen.
• 39:19
  Yeah.
• 39:19
  You said, are you going to be driving
• 39:20
  that use Prius in 10 years?
• 39:22
  If you're going to do it.
• 39:23
  Yeah.
• 39:24
  I think a lot of it too is, um, obviously
• 39:26
  I think about the stuff a lot
• 39:27
  from a people angle, cause that's where I
• 39:29
  have a lot of, I think a lot of people
• 39:31
  that have a business that are in that
• 39:34
  phase is they're lonely.
• 39:35
  They just don't have a lot of people to
• 39:36
  talk to that they can
• 39:37
  be really real with.
• 39:38
  I think that's one.
• 39:39
  And I also think that there's a degree to
• 39:41
  which momentum keeps them away from
• 39:44
  what they actually want to do.
• 39:45
  So the momentum is, is leading them in a
• 39:47
  direction and they don't necessarily,
• 39:49
  don't take the time to assess and like
• 39:51
  look at their life and be like, is this
• 39:53
  what I want to be doing right now?
• 39:55
  And if it is, I need to be innovating on
• 39:57
  the product or I need to be changing the
• 39:59
  way that we're thinking about the
• 40:00
  operation of this, right?
• 40:02
  And they just kind of like keep it going
• 40:03
  in the momentum ads.
• 40:04
  And then usually more, more workload gets
• 40:07
  added and then they find themselves
• 40:09
  really burnt out and upset and then
• 40:11
  they're just upset for a long period of
• 40:13
  time and, and feel like
• 40:14
  they don't have control.
• 40:15
  So I think that's a big one that you have
• 40:17
  to go through when you're
• 40:17
  always thinking about that.
• 40:20
  That I think is just like a good call out
• 40:23
  is Roman Khan, who runs like a
• 40:25
  old co absolute G killing it.
• 40:28
  He shared with me that like one big thing
• 40:30
  that he's trying to do now is trying to
• 40:32
  find a way to take a bigger percentage
• 40:34
  distribution of his EBITDA.
• 40:36
  He's like, I think a lot of business
• 40:37
  owners just go so full bore into like,
• 40:41
  gotta reinvest, gotta reinvest, gotta
• 40:43
  reinvest that they never take the time
• 40:44
  to say, what if this business falls apart
• 40:46
  one day and I'd not take enough
• 40:48
  money out of the company.
• 40:49
  So I think like slowing down growth to
• 40:52
  focus on profitability and figure out
• 40:55
  how you can take more money out to
• 40:56
  actually like put some money aside.
• 40:58
  I think a lot of brand owners get, like
• 41:00
  you said, kind of get stuck in that
• 41:01
  Hampshire wheel of like, gotta keep
• 41:03
  doing, gotta keep
• 41:03
  doing, gotta keep doing that.
• 41:04
  They don't really actually slow down and
• 41:06
  say, Oh, I actually could take more out.
• 41:08
  If I was meaningful with the dollars in
• 41:10
  the business a little bit more, if I
• 41:11
  spent a little bit less money on
• 41:12
  software, a little bit
• 41:13
  less money over here.
• 41:14
  Maybe I hired off shore instead of
• 41:16
  domestic for my next three hires.
• 41:18
  I could actually end up taking a little
• 41:19
  bit more money out of the business.
• 41:21
  I think a lot of brand owners need to
• 41:22
  like pause, look at their cashflow P&L
• 41:25
  and try to do that because yeah, it's
• 41:27
  hard and not every brain gets that,
• 41:28
  gets an exit, right?
• 41:29
  So if everyone's just waiting for that
• 41:31
  one day, I think it's, it can be pretty
• 41:33
  brutal. So that's, I just
• 41:34
  thought it was like good advice.
• 41:36
  He had a manager for like within the last
• 41:38
  week, probably a couple of
• 41:38
  weeks when this comes out and it's great.
• 41:40
  Like he talked about some
• 41:41
  of those things exactly.
• 41:42
  And somewhat specifically
• 41:43
  about how he's doing it.
• 41:44
  So you should just check that out.
• 41:46
  It's great.
• 41:47
  Sweet, sweet.
• 41:48
  Why don't we do that?
• 41:50
  All right.
• 41:50
  And final question is what's the biggest
• 41:54
  load of shit that you hear in DTC that,
• 42:00
  that, that you disagree with or agree
• 42:03
  with that you agree with that shit?
• 42:05
  What do you guys think?
• 42:07
  He started my beef.
• 42:07
  So like I, I saw, maybe I should let you
• 42:09
  guys answer the beef's question.
• 42:11
  Do you have one, Brad?
• 42:13
  You have one?
• 42:13
  Go for it.
• 42:14
  No, I mean, I just think like one of the,
• 42:16
  one of the questions I was in here
• 42:17
  from, I'm sorry if I mispronounce your
• 42:19
  name, Danivir, but like he kind of, he
• 42:21
  kind of said this is like, what do you
• 42:22
  see on Twitter that
• 42:22
  you like is kind of full
• 42:24
  of shit.
• 42:24
  It's like a lot of it.
• 42:25
  It's like a lot of it.
• 42:26
  Like a lot of people, a lot of people are
• 42:28
  trying to build a following on Twitter
• 42:29
  and they say things that are
• 42:31
  not like totally validated.
• 42:32
  So you just need to be cautious.
• 42:34
  Like I say that knowing full well that
• 42:36
  we're three dudes on a podcast, just
• 42:38
  like sharing what works for
• 42:40
  us within, you know, whatever.
• 42:41
  So, um, I think it just,
• 42:43
  yeah, he'd be somewhat skeptical.
• 42:45
  I think it's cool to get ideas from
• 42:46
  people, but you can't,
• 42:47
  you can't possibly test
• 42:47
  everything at all the time.
• 42:49
  So just, uh, yeah, maybe, maybe just be a
• 42:52
  little bit more skeptical probably.
• 42:54
  Yeah.
• 42:55
  I think that one of the bigger things
• 42:57
  lately is like,
• 42:58
  obviously we focus so much
• 42:59
  on meta and it's like, you can only scale
• 43:01
  your business on meta.
• 43:03
  Talk to a brand person the other day and
• 43:05
  they're, they're doing volume, like call
• 43:07
  it, what is this?
• 43:09
  Tens of millions a month in revenue.
• 43:10
  And they spend little to nothing on meta.
• 43:13
  So it's like, you can still have other
• 43:15
  playbooks that can work.
• 43:16
  I mean, these guys do
• 43:17
  crazy affiliate stuff.
• 43:19
  They do a ton of stuff with tick tock
• 43:21
  shop, driving traffic over to Amazon.
• 43:23
  I mean, there's definitely no one size
• 43:25
  fits all playbook that
• 43:26
  everyone has to follow.
• 43:28
  And if someone says like, this is how you
• 43:30
  grow a brand, like
• 43:30
  just know there's going
• 43:31
  to be a bunch of other ways that you
• 43:33
  probably can go about it.
• 43:34
  I also think like you also just have to
• 43:35
  tap into what you're good at.
• 43:36
  If you're good at ads, cool, then build
• 43:38
  your business off of Facebook.
• 43:39
  Like that's what, that's what we've done.
• 43:40
  So I've been running
• 43:41
  Facebook ads for a long time.
• 43:43
  That's what we know best.
• 43:43
  We don't do anything on tick tock right
• 43:45
  now for any of our brands, but there's
• 43:47
  people that are putting up
• 43:47
  numbers, doing that stuff too.
• 43:48
  So I think like one size fits all like
• 43:51
  takes like, that's the classic, like,
• 43:54
  that's smart.
• 43:55
  Yeah.
• 43:55
  So generally, I mean, that's kind of
• 43:57
  soft, but that was, that's the
• 43:59
  one thing I can get annoyed by.
• 44:00
  That's true.
• 44:01
  I mean, I think that's true.
• 44:02
  You know, to me, I would say mine is a
• 44:04
  little bit related to what you, what
• 44:05
  you guys have both said, which is, you
• 44:07
  know, I think the people that are
• 44:10
  really successful that I learned from,
• 44:13
  and you know, I've been doing this
• 44:15
  work in DTC e-com for
• 44:19
  like, since it was invented.
• 44:21
  So I'm old now.
• 44:22
  I just turned 40.
• 44:24
  You know, so like the people that I take
• 44:26
  inspiration from, you guys, of course,
• 44:29
  but other people, they are putting one
• 44:33
  foot in front of the other and
• 44:35
  like building brick by brick and that
• 44:37
  they have this mentality where they're
• 44:39
  planning the work and
• 44:40
  they're working the plan.
• 44:41
  And I know that sounds like really, you
• 44:43
  know, out there, but there's so many
• 44:45
  people that pop up that they're, you
• 44:48
  know, trying to get leads and they're
• 44:50
  blowing things up and they're putting out
• 44:52
  this and that and whatever.
• 44:53
  And it's like, there are exceptions to
• 44:56
  this, but most of the time they're
• 44:58
  a flash in the pan and they're not the
• 45:00
  people that are out there consistently
• 45:02
  doing the work.
• 45:03
  And the other thing is all of these
• 45:05
  people that we all know that are well
• 45:07
  known in our industry, including us.
• 45:10
  There are like multiple people under them
• 45:13
  that are also, or with them
• 45:16
  that are also doing the work and that are
• 45:18
  really smart and potentially
• 45:20
  smarter than them and, or than us, you
• 45:23
  know, like my team, right?
• 45:25
  They are smarter than me.
• 45:28
  And I love that about them.
• 45:29
  Like they do, they
• 45:30
  put in incredible work.
• 45:32
  They're great people and
• 45:33
  they're doing it consistently.
• 45:34
  And that's what makes us great.
• 45:35
  We're just stacking wins
• 45:37
  one thing after another.
• 45:39
  This is the mission.
• 45:40
  And I think that there's
• 45:41
  a lot to be said for that.
• 45:42
  And I think if you read through, you
• 45:45
  know, successful
• 45:46
  businesses over time, you
• 45:47
  know, everybody loves a very unsexy
• 45:50
  business and I think that there's so
• 45:52
  much focus in ours on sexy businesses.
• 45:55
  But like, that's not true.
• 45:56
  There's a lot of these people that are
• 45:57
  out here just one thing at a time.
• 45:59
  And I think that, that is the people that
• 46:02
  you're always trying to find, right?
• 46:03
  That are like digging in and, um, you
• 46:07
  don't need to be a person.
• 46:10
  You can't be a person that's out there
• 46:11
  giving advice and giving thoughts.
• 46:14
  If you aren't hearing from people 70% of
• 46:18
  the time and listening 70% of the time.
• 46:21
  And that's something that
• 46:21
  I've certainly learned as well.
• 46:25
  Yeah, I think there's time.
• 46:27
  Totally.
• 46:28
  One other thing, one other thing.
• 46:29
  And I'm just now kind
• 46:30
  of ranting about that.
• 46:31
  Maybe we should start fights.
• 46:32
  Yeah, the last thing I'll have to say is
• 46:36
  that when things are good, all the big
• 46:40
  dogs are talking, right?
• 46:42
  When things are hard, they go away.
• 46:44
  Um, and not calling myself a big dog by
• 46:46
  any means by saying this, but like we
• 46:47
  went through a really rough
• 46:49
  period last spring for hollow.
• 46:50
  It was brutal.
• 46:51
  Like I thought maybe we
• 46:52
  would lose the business even.
• 46:53
  It was pretty scary.
• 46:54
  We just over index.
• 46:55
  We had a super like weather was
• 46:56
  completely set off like our sales and our
• 46:59
  velocity of what we were planning to sell
• 47:00
  and what we ordered versus what we
• 47:02
  didn't order of inventory.
• 47:04
  It was definitely scary, but I like just
• 47:05
  got off of Twitter for like three months.
• 47:07
  Cause I'm like, I just, I can't be out
• 47:08
  here talking about things being good
• 47:10
  when things are not good.
• 47:11
  And I think when there's people that are
• 47:13
  always posting about things are good all
• 47:15
  the time, like you can
• 47:16
  usually, you know, call bullshit.
• 47:18
  Cause it's not, it's not the truth.
• 47:20
  Um, so that's just my other point is like
• 47:24
  give people kudos that share the
• 47:26
  L's also, um, versus just always out
• 47:29
  there flexing, which I'm, I do sometimes
• 47:32
  cause it's, you know, it's fun and it's,
• 47:33
  you know, I love to kind of like hype
• 47:35
  the people up a little bit, but, uh,
• 47:37
  yeah, yeah, it's,
• 47:38
  it's definitely the real
• 47:38
  thing though is, you know, it doesn't
• 47:41
  always have to be, that's what's always,
• 47:43
  that's what's always so funny is because
• 47:45
  everybody knows you as Zach from, from,
• 47:48
  from X, but in real life, you're like
• 47:50
  actually incredibly good friend and
• 47:51
  sweet person, which you're not like out
• 47:54
  here flexing like crazy.
• 47:56
  Even though when we had dinner last week,
• 47:57
  I did notice that your license
• 47:58
  plate says D to C, which is pretty sick.
• 48:00
  Yeah.
• 48:00
  I mean, what else can I make though?
• 48:02
  You know, there's three of us in
• 48:03
  Wisconsin that do this.
• 48:04
  So you gotta, you
• 48:05
  gotta let the people know.
• 48:06
  Gentlemen, good to be with you.
• 48:07
  As always, you can feel free to email me,
• 48:09
  Andrew at foxaleligital.com or DM the
• 48:11
  guys, and they may look at their direct
• 48:13
  messages, but if you actually want
• 48:14
  somebody to read it, send it to me.
• 48:16
  I'm happy to look at it and hear from you
• 48:18
  and please rate review, share this with
• 48:20
  friends who really appreciate everything
• 48:21
  you guys do by listening and keep
• 48:23
  questions coming.
• 48:24
  Everyone have a good rest of your day.
• 48:26
  Yeah.
• 48:26
  Thanks guys.
• 48:27
  See you.
• 48:36
  This episode is brought to you by
• 48:38
  Homestead's email and SMS service.
• 48:42
  Honestly, we've, we've done an episode
• 48:43
  with, with Jacob from Homestead.
• 48:45
  He's the man and he's, he's got to be
• 48:47
  probably one of the smartest email and
• 48:48
  retention operators like on
• 48:50
  the agency side hand sound.
• 48:51
  I look forward to seeing the tweets that
• 48:54
  he puts out basically every single
• 48:55
  month with like a recap of the designs
• 48:57
  and as amazing as the designs themselves
• 49:00
  are, it's the actual like tactical behind
• 49:02
  the scenes work where he just
• 49:03
  like knows what he's doing and the team
• 49:05
  at home said like really know what
• 49:06
  they're doing on email and SMS.
• 49:07
  Probably if not the number one, very,
• 49:11
  very close to competing for number one
• 49:12
  retention agency in the DTC space.
• 49:14
  So just killing it.
• 49:15
  Yeah, absolutely agree.
• 49:16
  You know, if you are looking at your
• 49:18
  emails and you're
• 49:19
  like, these are terrible
• 49:20
  and you know, you can optimize the flows
• 49:22
  and you know, you can do SMS better.
• 49:24
  You got to look at the Homestead team.
• 49:26
  So check them out, reach out
• 49:27
  and they can definitely help.
• 49:29
  Make your entire email and retention and
• 49:32
  SMS program so much better.
• 49:34
  And I'm not just saying
• 49:35
  that we've all seen the work.
• 49:37
  I actually had a member who sat down
• 49:39
  with, with Jacob at the
• 49:41
  founder meetup that we
• 49:42
  had, and he came over to me and said, I
• 49:44
  just talked to him for 10 minutes.
• 49:46
  And literally he, he's revolutionized my
• 49:48
  entire email department.
• 49:51
  So agencies are modeling themselves off
• 49:53
  of what Jacob is giving them for advice.
• 49:56
  So anyway, onwards to
• 49:58
  hopefully working with them.