Transcript

Sharri | 4 August · Sharri

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Speaker 1: Live on twenty four you're watching Sharry Good Evening.
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Speaker 2: Well, the Royal Commission into Anti Semitism was a disgrace today.
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Speaker 2: The Commission is meant to be examining the Opera House
0:15
Speaker 2: rally of October nine, and Jewish leader David Ossip was
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Speaker 2: giving heartfelt evidence about the way that rally offended the
0:23
Speaker 2: community with its disgraceful chance of f.
0:27
Speaker 3: The Jews, where's the Jews? And even we're going to
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Speaker 3: kill them all?
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Speaker 2: But then Palestinian groups were given the flaw to harangue
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Speaker 2: David Ossip about Palestinian casualty figures Israel's military action in Gaza,
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Speaker 2: even statements Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin nettin Yaw who had
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Speaker 2: made and United Nations reports.
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Speaker 3: I mean, David Ossip is an Australian.
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Speaker 2: He's the president of the New South Wales Jewish Board
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Speaker 2: of Deputies. He represents Australian Jews. He has nothing nothing
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Speaker 2: to do with Israel's response, and he can't be accountable
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Speaker 2: for casualty figures that may or may not be right
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Speaker 2: or biased United Nations reports. Yet the Royal Commission allowed
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Speaker 2: him to be interrogated by two lawyers acting for Palestinian
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Speaker 2: groups now, firstly, just a reminder. Here is what unfolded
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Speaker 2: at the Opera House in October nine. This is the
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Speaker 2: reason Ussip was there to give evidence. It's vile stuff
1:54
Speaker 2: and the police just stood back. There only arrest that
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Speaker 2: night a peaceful Jew. Now Osip started by giving evidence
2:03
Speaker 2: where he spoke about how police advised that it wasn't
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Speaker 2: safe for Jews to be in the Sydney CBD that night.
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Speaker 2: He said he was surprised and disappointed because the Premier
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Speaker 2: had made the decision to light the Opera House in
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Speaker 2: blue and white in solidarity with those killed in the
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Speaker 2: Hamas attacks.
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Speaker 4: And we'd also seen quite an infamous gathering in Greenacre
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Speaker 4: where one shik got up to celebrate the atrocities of
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Speaker 4: October seventh, and his infamous words of it's a day
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Speaker 4: of pride, it's a day of courage, I'm smiling, I'm elated,
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Speaker 4: reflected a sympathy for the acts of violence, and to
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Speaker 4: think that those individuals would be going down to the
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Speaker 4: Opera House where a gathering of the Jewish community would
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Speaker 4: be taking place obviously gave rise to concerns.
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Speaker 2: There was a visual planned but the Jews couldn't attend
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Speaker 2: and control of the streets, as US have said, was
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Speaker 2: effectively handed over to the pro Palestinian protesters.
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Speaker 4: I can't recall any group, particularly any religious or racial group,
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Speaker 4: ever being provided advice that they should avoid their own
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Speaker 4: city CBD for their own safety, and well was effectively
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Speaker 4: the police saying we can't keep your community safe. And
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Speaker 4: as I've said in my statement, in my view, it
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Speaker 4: was effectively the police transferring control of the CBD to
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Speaker 4: the protesters.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, precisely now.
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Speaker 2: The council assisting the Commission, Richard Lancaster, noted that police
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Speaker 2: had disputed chance that some attendees heard of gus the
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Speaker 2: Jews and instead police claimed where's the Jews was chanted?
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Speaker 3: But then Lancaster made this point.
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Speaker 5: What exactly was intended by a chant of where's the
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Speaker 5: Jews is unclear, but the sentiment is unmistakably anti submitting
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Speaker 5: what other impression Jewish observer gap from hearing a chant
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Speaker 5: where's the Jews or any abuse of Jews? Generally in
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Speaker 5: a protest in the forecourt of the Opera House on
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Speaker 5: the night on which the Opera House sales were illuminated
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Speaker 5: in blue and white as an expression of sympathy to
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Speaker 5: the nation, of Israel for a murderous attack on its
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Speaker 5: citizens two days earlier. The Commission has heard evidence that
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Speaker 5: the conduct of the police on nine October gave some
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Speaker 5: members of the Jewish community the impression that the police
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Speaker 5: were protecting anti Semitic demonstrators.
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Speaker 3: Yep, he's quite right.
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Speaker 2: But then the Royal Commission handed over the floor to
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Speaker 2: lawyers representing major Palestinian groups, and these lawyers proceeded to
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Speaker 2: interrogate David Ossip about alleged casualty figures in Gaza, about
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Speaker 2: claims from the United Nations about Israel, about the context
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Speaker 2: for the Hamas attacks. I mean, I actually couldn't believe
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Speaker 2: what I was watching. Now here's one lawyer, Ragnimtha, acting
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Speaker 2: for the Australian Palestinian Advocacy Network and APAN is run
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Speaker 2: by Nasa Mashni, who has called Jews who support Israel filth.
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Speaker 6: And you appreciate and understand, don't you, mister Ossip, that Palestinians,
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Speaker 6: both in the occupied territory and here in Australia, have
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Speaker 6: also suffered deep psychological trauma.
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Speaker 2: This question during an anti Semitism Royal Commission ordered after
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Speaker 2: the terror attack at Bondi.
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Speaker 6: But it got worse, and the context in relation to
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Speaker 6: the events of seven October twenty twenty three are firstly
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Speaker 6: that in the period between two thousand and eight and
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Speaker 6: twenty twenty three seven October twenty twenty three, roughly six
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Speaker 6: six thousand, six hundred Palestinians had been killed by the
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Speaker 6: Israeli security forces. That's the context, isn't known?
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Speaker 4: I mean, that's your assertion. I wasn't prepared for this.
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Speaker 4: There's no wape and actually comments on that.
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Speaker 3: Wow.
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Speaker 2: David Ossip was being asked to account for the so
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Speaker 2: called context of October seven and alleged casualty figures which
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Speaker 2: he couldn't possibly know if they were.
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Speaker 3: Accurate or not.
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Speaker 2: And again, this at a Royal commission into the terror
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Speaker 2: attack at Bondai. I mean, this conflating of the Middle
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Speaker 2: East with Australian Jews is precisely what allegedly.
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Speaker 3: Led to the attack itself.
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Speaker 2: And yet the line of questioning was permitted by Commissioner
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Speaker 2: Virginia Bell and this vile interrogation continued.
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Speaker 7: It's your understanding, isn't it.
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Speaker 6: However, that in the period of twenty twenty three, the
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Speaker 6: United Nations offers for the coordination of a humanitarian is
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Speaker 6: called twenty twenty three the deadliest year for the West
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Speaker 6: Bank Palestinians since it began recording casualties in two thousand
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Speaker 6: and five.
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Speaker 7: In the first nine months.
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Speaker 6: Of the year of that year alone, before October seven,
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Speaker 6: roughly two hundred Palestinians had been killed, including roughly forty children.
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Speaker 7: That was information known to you, wasn't it.
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Speaker 4: Mister Osip Again, I mean that is your assertion. I
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Speaker 4: haven't seen what you're the document you're referring to. I'm
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Speaker 4: not aware of the contacts. I'm not aware of who
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Speaker 4: the author of the report was, what the background of
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Speaker 4: that author was. I accept it's a very contested part
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Speaker 4: of the world that there are ongoing security challenges, but
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Speaker 4: obviously you had a listed terrorist organization from US which
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Speaker 4: was running Gaza and terrorizing not just Israeli civilians in
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Speaker 4: the surrounds, but also terror the Palestinian civilian population of
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Speaker 4: Gaza as well. It's very complex.
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Speaker 2: I can't believe David Ossip, who's a friend of Premier
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Speaker 2: Chris Mins and who has done nothing but try to
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Speaker 2: keep Australian safe over the past few years. I can't
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Speaker 2: believe he had to sit there and answer questions about
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Speaker 2: United Nations biased allegations against Israel.
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Speaker 3: It's utterly disgraceful.
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Speaker 2: And this line of questioning went on until the lawyer
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Speaker 2: representing the Jewish groups, Zoe Hillman, objected, and only then
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Speaker 2: did the commissioner think perhaps this wasn't an appropriate line
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Speaker 2: of questioning. But still Ragni Metha snuck in some more questions,
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Speaker 2: and David Ossip had no choice but to sit there
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Speaker 2: and answer her hostile questions.
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Speaker 8: This witness is not the appropriate person to give an
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Speaker 8: opinion as to what those funimations.
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Speaker 9: The witness has given evidence of histions of the distress
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Speaker 9: to the Jewish community. There's math is is. It's open
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Speaker 9: to her to seek to see if the witness will
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Speaker 9: agree with the proposition that's being put, and I propose
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Speaker 9: to allow it. Did you I think the question you
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Speaker 9: completed your question.
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Speaker 6: Right, yes, in the context of your earlier evidence that
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Speaker 6: you found it unsensitive, insensitive that a protest should be
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Speaker 6: called on the seventh you understood, didn't you, And you
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Speaker 6: appreciated the Palestinians. Palestinian Australians were likewise filled with deep
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Speaker 6: fear with respect to what the future held for those
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Speaker 6: in the occupied territory.
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Speaker 4: I'm not the best place to opine on what Palestinian
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Speaker 4: Australians were feeling. It's definitely possible and probably likely that
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Speaker 4: there was concern after you had the government of Gaza
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Speaker 4: commencing a war in such a vicious and brutal way
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Speaker 4: as it did. Notwithstanding all of that, I think it's
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Speaker 4: important for all of us as citizens of Australia to
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Speaker 4: show kindness and respect and understanding and sensitivity to others.
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Speaker 4: And notwithstanding any trauma that those Palestinians Australians were feeling,
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Speaker 4: I feel like if they were involved in organizing this
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Speaker 4: raelly at a time when such grievous acts of violence
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Speaker 4: had been committed against Israeli civilians, I think that showed
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Speaker 4: a lack of sensitivity.
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Speaker 2: He was forced to answer the question and he handled
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Speaker 2: it superbly. Now there was another lawyer who wasn't much better.
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Speaker 2: This is dominic to me acting for the Palestine Action Group,
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Speaker 2: which organizes many of these troublesome protests. And here's one interaction,
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Speaker 2: and again OSIP responded, very well.
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Speaker 10: You are aware, aren't you, that Israel Defense Force FARTA
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Speaker 10: jets began conducting air strikes in the Gaza Strip at
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Speaker 10: around five point thirty pm Sydney time on the seventh
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Speaker 10: of October.
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Speaker 4: I just have to make the point. This is a
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Speaker 4: Royal Commission on Anti Semitism. We're dealing with the protest
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Speaker 4: where protests shouted out f the Jews and wear the Jews,
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Speaker 4: and I'm going to kill them all. And I'm a
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Speaker 4: bit confused as to why we're getting caught up in
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Speaker 4: the minutia of the timeline of a foreign military operation,
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Speaker 4: even though I do reject the.
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Speaker 2: Premise of your question exactly and that lawyer Dominic Toomey
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Speaker 2: is the president of the New South Wales Bar Association,
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Speaker 2: by the way, which I find worrying now. As you
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Speaker 2: heard there, Osip tried to stop the questions going ahead.
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Speaker 3: He said it again.
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Speaker 2: He said he thinks it falls outside of matters that
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Speaker 2: are before the Commission, but Virginia Bell ruled that this
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Speaker 2: was all in order.
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Speaker 9: Have look, mister Ossip, if the line of questioning falls
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Speaker 9: outside matters that are properly before me, I will rule
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Speaker 9: the question inadmissible. I have not made that rule.
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Speaker 2: And that was how this objectionable offensive line of questioning began,
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Speaker 2: and Torumy continued to ask ossip about what Israeli Prime
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Speaker 2: Minister Benjamin Attigna who had said and the aftermath of
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Speaker 2: the Hamas attacks where his civilians were raped, slaughtered and kidnapped.
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Speaker 10: Are you aware that Prime Minister Letnya who at six
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Speaker 10: pm Sydney time on the seventh of October declared that
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Speaker 10: Israel was at war with Hamas, not an opera, not
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Speaker 10: around at war and that Israeli defense forces had launched
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Speaker 10: air strikes into Gaza, vowing to inflict an unprecedented price.
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Speaker 2: And Ossip was even grilled about his personal conversations with
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Speaker 2: New South Wales police, which he shouldn't have had to answer.
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Speaker 10: So you have never discussed with police their investigations into
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Speaker 10: what happened on the ninth of October.
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Speaker 4: There have been discussions with police about the events of
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Speaker 4: the month of October, concerns about some of the behavior
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Speaker 4: we saw that evening and repeatedly I've asked police to
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Speaker 4: ensure that any unlawful conduct is addressed through investigation and
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Speaker 4: if necessary, prosecution.
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Speaker 10: And have they been discussions between you and police officers
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Speaker 10: or others and police.
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Speaker 2: Officers And it went on and that was highly inappropriate
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Speaker 2: and to me, was trying to present his clients as
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Speaker 2: completely innocent. But have a look at what the Palestine
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Speaker 2: Action Group actually said on the night of the October
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Speaker 2: nine protests, and I first reported this exclusively last October.
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Speaker 2: I've also obtained footage of the speech made by Asala Sahara,
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Speaker 2: who was with the Palestine Action Group at the time
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Speaker 2: and she helped organize that Opera house rally. She said
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Speaker 2: in her speech that HERMAS has the right to resist
14:31
Speaker 2: these comments just two days after one thousand, two hundred
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Speaker 2: innocent babies, children, parents, and the elderly were gunned down
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Speaker 2: in cold blood.
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Speaker 11: So to anyone who comes out with an argument that
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Speaker 11: says her MASS is a terrorist organization.
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Speaker 8: Organization, let me tell you that Cans internationally recognize that
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Speaker 8: we're Palestinians, as hamasked having right through six.
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Speaker 2: She also defended her MUSS as fighting against colonialists, and
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Speaker 2: she urged the crowd to use the word Sahayani, meaning Zionist,
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Speaker 2: and not the word yahood, which means jew. The current
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Speaker 2: Palaesine Action Group organizer Josh Lees also said he supports
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Speaker 2: Palestinians when they fight back. Now again, these comments were
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Speaker 2: just forty eight hours after the worst massacre of Jews
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Speaker 2: since the Holocaust. So that's the Palestine Action Group again,
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Speaker 2: whose lawyer today said they had condemned the anti semitism.
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Speaker 3: Of the Opera House protests. What a joke.
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Speaker 2: Perhaps he should look at these comments before making those claims. Now, ultimately, eventually,
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Speaker 2: Commission of Virginia Belle did shut all of this nonsense down.
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Speaker 9: We have we have now received some material concerning the
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Speaker 9: steps taken in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas incursion
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Speaker 9: into the territory of Israel.
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Speaker 12: We are not going to.
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Speaker 7: Explore that.
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Speaker 9: The hostilities in greater detail.
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Speaker 3: In this commission, but that took far too long. Now,
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Speaker 3: David Ossa did extremely well. As you saw.
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Speaker 2: He was calm, polite, respectful, sensitive and empathetic to Palestinian
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Speaker 2: suffering and he should be applauded for the extraordinary way
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Speaker 2: he handled that.
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Speaker 3: But the bottom line is deeply troubling.
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Speaker 2: Commission of Virginia Belle allowed the lawyers representing the Palestinian
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Speaker 2: advocacy groups to cross examine ossip about the actions of
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Speaker 2: the Israeli government while he was giving evidence about the fear,
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Speaker 2: the trauma and the anti Semitism experienced by Australian Jews.
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Speaker 2: This was a profound perversion where a witness appearing before
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Speaker 2: the Royal Commission was placed in the position of answering
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Speaker 2: for the conduct of a foreign government. This is victim
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Speaker 2: blaming and the Royal Commission outrageously allowed it to unfold.
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Speaker 3: Worse still, allowing.
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Speaker 2: This line of questioning plays into the dangerous narrative that
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Speaker 2: Australian Jews are legitimate proxies for Israel and may be blamed,
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Speaker 2: challenged or held collectively accountable for events in the Middle East.
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Speaker 2: This conflation is at the heart of the antisemitism crisis
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Speaker 2: that has swept Australia since October seven, and today it
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Speaker 2: happened on the Royal Commission's watch. Now I'll come back
18:28
Speaker 2: to that later in the show with Simone Abel from
18:31
Speaker 2: the Executive Council of Australian Jury. But now, it was
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Speaker 2: day two of the explosive Alan Jones trial and the
18:38
Speaker 2: young athlete known only as Jay returned to the stand
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Speaker 2: to give evidence. The alleged victim was emotional as he
18:46
Speaker 2: recounted a weekend away at Jones's Southern Highlands home. And
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Speaker 2: here's the latest from Channel seven's Chris.
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Speaker 13: Reason Sitting unresponsive to Lurid details from alleged victim, theneen
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Speaker 13: athlete complainant Joe, recounting a trip to Jones's sprawling, seventeen
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Speaker 13: million dollar farm at Fitzroy Falls in two thousand and four,
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Speaker 13: alleging that in the car on the way, Jones took
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Speaker 13: hold of my leg and part of my penis and said, oh,
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Speaker 13: what's that. When they arrived, he says he was told
19:15
Speaker 13: to shower and change into a bathrobe, nothing else. I
19:19
Speaker 13: almost knew what was going to happen. He said, he
19:21
Speaker 13: wants me to come out in the nude, easy access.
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Speaker 13: He's going to touch me. Jones, then, in his sixties,
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Speaker 13: allegedly grabbed the teen's penis and kissed him very sloppy.
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Speaker 13: Saliva was everywhere, up on my nose and down on
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Speaker 13: my chin, he says. He asked him to stop, went
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Speaker 13: to his bedroom. Jones allegedly followed lay beside him, probably
19:41
Speaker 13: as scared and nervous as I was in a long time,
19:44
Speaker 13: like my heart was going to come out of my chest.
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Speaker 3: And Alan Jones denies the allegations. Again.
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Speaker 2: Let's turn to some other headlines now, and questions around
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Speaker 2: Pauline Hansen's security have a gained been raised after protests
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Speaker 2: erupted outside a One Nation event at a Hawthorne pub
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Speaker 2: last night and joining me to discuss News twenty four
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Speaker 2: hosts Steve Price and former Victorian Liberal Party president Michael Kroger.
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Speaker 3: Terrific to see you both, Michael.
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Speaker 2: Look, police shielded Hansen from around one hundred protesters, but
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Speaker 2: as we saw, one group did manage to break through
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Speaker 2: to chant disgusting messages.
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Speaker 3: This is a security issue, look.
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Speaker 14: It certainly is, but this is only helping paul and Hanson.
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Speaker 14: It keeps her in the news and Sharie. It might
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Speaker 14: come as a big surprise to people watching tonight, but
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Speaker 14: Melbournians are sick of these demonstrations by the fascist left.
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Speaker 14: We've put up with them for two years in these
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Speaker 14: Palestinian demonstrations in the CBD and we've got the sayis left.
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Speaker 14: This is the hard extreme fascist left now trying to
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Speaker 14: take on paul En Hanson. If they keep doing this,
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Speaker 14: her vote is going to increase because people here are
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Speaker 14: sick of these extremists. This is one of the things
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Speaker 14: that's tainted Melbourne and Victoria for the last couple of years,
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Speaker 14: and the more they do this, the better it is
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Speaker 14: for her. So please, if you've got any understanding of
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Speaker 14: how politics works, my friends in the mad socialist left,
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Speaker 14: please stop this because you're only helping the woman you're
21:28
Speaker 14: trying to harm.
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Speaker 2: I mean, I agree with you, Mike. I think that's true.
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Speaker 2: People are totally sick of it. They hate it, and
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Speaker 2: only encourage you support for one nation. But Steve, I
21:37
Speaker 2: also do think this is a serious concern and it's
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Speaker 2: a safety issue for Pauline enhancement. And look, you got
21:44
Speaker 2: to say I'm worried about it.
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Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm not sure Michael has too many friends in
21:51
Speaker 11: the hard socialist left, but we'll park that notion to
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Speaker 11: one side. The Public Response Unit was called out last night.
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Speaker 11: Now that's an organization that is hired and trained to
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Speaker 11: handle violent protests, and so they're getting obviously intelligence within
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Speaker 11: the Victoria Police Force that there is a serious threat
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Speaker 11: to Pauline Hanson. Now we've seen all this before. I mean,
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Speaker 11: Michael and I are old enough to remember back in
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Speaker 11: the mid nineteen nineties Pauline Hanson coming to Melbourne and
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Speaker 11: there were violent protests much bigger than that one last night,
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Speaker 11: surrounding her and trying to silence her. She's already said
22:28
Speaker 11: today on radio that she intends to spend quite.
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Speaker 12: A lot of time in.
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Speaker 11: Victoria in the lead up to the November election. She's
22:35
Speaker 11: going to make at least three or four visits to
22:38
Speaker 11: regional Victoria. Can you imagine the police resources are going
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Speaker 11: to be required to make sure that she's kept safe
22:45
Speaker 11: wherever she is. But it is really, as Michael said,
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Speaker 11: it's not doing her vote any harm at all. And interestingly,
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Speaker 11: at that meeting last night there were one hundred and
22:55
Speaker 11: fifty one Nation supporters in attendance, somewhere between one hundred
22:59
Speaker 11: and fifteen and someone else three hundred, I'm not sure
23:01
Speaker 11: the exact figure, and they paid one hundred and twenty
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Speaker 11: dollars ahead. I don't think the existing major parties are
23:08
Speaker 11: the labeled the Liberals or the Nationals would get one
23:11
Speaker 11: hundred and twenty people on a cold one hundred and
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Speaker 11: fifty people on a cold Melbourne night in the middle
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Speaker 11: of winter to play one hundred and twenty dollars to
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Speaker 11: go and listen to their leader.
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Speaker 2: She's certainly a draw card, that's for sure. And you know,
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Speaker 2: wherever she goes, she's just mobbed on the streets. It's
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Speaker 2: kind of quite extraordinary, really, let's turn to the latest
23:30
Speaker 2: Redbridge poll on the Victorian state election.
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Speaker 3: Both of you are and Victoria. Of course, the Coalition is.
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Speaker 2: Leading on thirty Jess Wilson soaring ahead there, followed by
23:40
Speaker 2: a Labor on twenty three and One Nation on twenty
23:43
Speaker 2: two percent. Freshwater Strategy has a similar story in their polls.
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Speaker 3: So, Michael, Jess Wilson does seem to be.
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Speaker 2: Doing well do you think I mean still a couple
23:53
Speaker 2: of months away, four months away, but do you think
23:54
Speaker 2: she's on track to be premier?
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Speaker 14: I think she is prefer to be in her position
24:01
Speaker 14: than Ben Carroll's position, because you add the Liberal One
24:05
Speaker 14: Nation vote together, they're closing on fifty and a bit
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Speaker 14: more fifty two, and the left vote which is Labor,
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Speaker 14: Greens and the Cannabis Party are sort of you know,
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Speaker 14: it's sub forty. So it depends how many seats we win.
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Speaker 14: We need to win sixteen seats without losing any to
24:24
Speaker 14: get to forty five out of eighty eight to get
24:26
Speaker 14: a majority in our own right, is it likely that
24:28
Speaker 14: One Nation will win a few? If you're on twenty
24:30
Speaker 14: two percent primary across the state, you're probably on thirty
24:33
Speaker 14: five maybe forty in some country seats and lower in
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Speaker 14: the city so one Nation well may win a few,
24:39
Speaker 14: so you know, the objective is to win government. Obviously,
24:43
Speaker 14: Jess Wilson her team will have to negotiate with One
24:45
Speaker 14: Nation afterwards if we don't get to forty five seats.
24:48
Speaker 14: But I think there's a unity of purpose between the
24:51
Speaker 14: Liberal Party One Nation, the Liberal Democrats and other center
24:55
Speaker 14: right parties to defeat this toxic government which have basically
24:59
Speaker 14: destroyed Victoria. And I think Carrol's going to lose as
25:03
Speaker 14: they should. He's been there for the entire journey of
25:06
Speaker 14: the Andrews Allen government to sort of say, oh, I'm
25:09
Speaker 14: a new face. No, Ben, you've been there forever made.
25:11
Speaker 14: You're part of the problem. You're not the solution.
25:13
Speaker 3: No exactly.
25:14
Speaker 2: But I mean, Steve, you've always been a bit pessimistic
25:17
Speaker 2: or worried that Victorians will vote Laboring again.
25:21
Speaker 3: How are you feeling about it now?
25:25
Speaker 11: Well, changing to Carroll helps the Labor Party obviously. I
25:28
Speaker 11: mean he's had a little dead cat bounce in the
25:31
Speaker 11: polls there up a couple of points, so that's going
25:34
Speaker 11: in the right direction. There's going to be a damning
25:37
Speaker 11: report come out tomorrow around Daniel Andrews and his dealings
25:41
Speaker 11: with the Fieries Union down here that apparently is going
25:45
Speaker 11: to be explosive. That won't help Ben Carroll. Victoria is
25:49
Speaker 11: not Queensland and Victoria is not regional New South Wales.
25:52
Speaker 11: One nation would always find Victoria the hardest state to
25:56
Speaker 11: get some traction in. But when you look at yesterday,
25:59
Speaker 11: Pauline announced seven Upper House members. They're obviously targeting the
26:04
Speaker 11: Upper House, hoping that they can get enough in there
26:06
Speaker 11: to hold the balance of power. I agree with Michael
26:09
Speaker 11: that Jess Wilson's on track to win, but the labor
26:13
Speaker 11: machine is very clever, very determined, and they're not frightened
26:19
Speaker 11: to pull dirty tricks. So this is going to be
26:22
Speaker 11: a fascinating four months. It'll be closer than everyone thinks.
26:28
Speaker 11: You can't predict it this far out, I don't think.
26:31
Speaker 2: And meanwhile, Liberals are just getting inundated with questions both
26:34
Speaker 2: federally and in Victoria about you know, whether they would
26:38
Speaker 2: do a deal or an alliance with one nation if
26:40
Speaker 2: it came down to it. I mean, Andrew Hasty was
26:43
Speaker 2: the latest here, he was this morning on News twenty four.
26:47
Speaker 1: I mean, Peter, I've always enjoyed preference flows from one
26:50
Speaker 1: nation in previous elections.
26:52
Speaker 7: That's not changed.
26:53
Speaker 1: The question is do I want to go into a
26:55
Speaker 1: formal partnership with them, And the answer to that is no.
26:58
Speaker 1: I believe in the Liberal Party and I want to
27:00
Speaker 1: win government and have a Liberal government.
27:03
Speaker 3: That was That was with Pete Stefanovic.
27:05
Speaker 2: But Michael, I mean they're each trying to Every liberal
27:09
Speaker 2: here is trying to wiggle an answer out on the
27:13
Speaker 2: spot on live television.
27:14
Speaker 3: I mean they need to work out whether.
27:15
Speaker 2: They actually are going to do an alliance, whether they
27:18
Speaker 2: will do preference deals, and work out how to answer
27:20
Speaker 2: questions from journalists about this.
27:23
Speaker 15: No.
27:23
Speaker 14: I think to be fair, the position's clear, and it's
27:26
Speaker 14: this you tell us Will Okay, Will Will Angus Taylor
27:32
Speaker 14: or Jess Wilson form a government with one nation as
27:36
Speaker 14: part of the government and have ministries. The answer is no,
27:40
Speaker 14: nor have one nation asked for that. By the way,
27:42
Speaker 14: privately or publicly, has there been any indication they want
27:45
Speaker 14: to join the government. I don't think they want to.
27:47
Speaker 14: So are we intending to go into government with one nation?
27:50
Speaker 14: The answer is no, are we intending to if we
27:54
Speaker 14: don't have a majority in our own right. Talk to
27:57
Speaker 14: the anti labor parties including one Nation in Liberal, Democrats, Independence,
28:02
Speaker 14: whoever else? Areteals about confidence and supply to ensure that
28:07
Speaker 14: we have the confidence of the House in the case
28:10
Speaker 14: we have a minority, Yes, we will be doing that.
28:13
Speaker 14: And thirdly, will we be swapping preferences with one nation? Well,
28:17
Speaker 14: the Greens will be going last, Labor we're going second last,
28:21
Speaker 14: and one Nation will be going ahead of those two.
28:23
Speaker 14: It's inconceivable that the Liberal Party, after the shocking mess
28:28
Speaker 14: that Labor have left in Victoria or the economic disaster
28:32
Speaker 14: coming federally, that we would put give elbow any preferences
28:37
Speaker 14: or the anti Semitic Greens. So there's your answer. No
28:42
Speaker 14: to being part of government, yes to confidence and supply,
28:45
Speaker 14: and yes to preferencing one nation ahead of Labor and
28:48
Speaker 14: the Greens. And that's the anceer Shary.
28:50
Speaker 2: Well, you give a far more clear answer than most politicians.
28:54
Speaker 2: But Steve, the issue is that if the Liberals or
28:57
Speaker 2: if the coalition falls well shot of governing in its
29:01
Speaker 2: own right, then it might have to have conversations about
29:04
Speaker 2: ministries or governing in an alliance.
29:09
Speaker 11: Look, I'm great friends with Michael, but he displays the
29:13
Speaker 11: sort of arrogance that's got the Liberal Party in trouble.
29:16
Speaker 11: I mean, Angus Tyler won't even have a meeting with
29:18
Speaker 11: Pauline Hanson. She hasn't seen him since he took over
29:22
Speaker 11: as the leader. So the Liberals have got to wake
29:24
Speaker 11: up to themselves. They're not I mean, the polls say
29:30
Speaker 11: that the public of Australia are sick and tired of
29:33
Speaker 11: arrogant Liberals and lying Labor Party people, and so that's
29:37
Speaker 11: why they're going to Pauline Hanson. Michael, I mean, you
29:40
Speaker 11: can't just sit there and say, oh, we won't form
29:42
Speaker 11: government with them. We might have to, mate. I mean,
29:45
Speaker 11: we want to get rid of labor in Victoria. We
29:47
Speaker 11: don't care who you do or deal with. Let's just
29:50
Speaker 11: get rid of labor. And if it means you have
29:51
Speaker 11: to form a coalition with the One Nation, do it.
29:54
Speaker 3: Michael. Got to give you a response to that, Well, we'll.
29:57
Speaker 14: Be forming a coalition with the National Party. There's never
30:00
Speaker 14: been a request by One Nation God for to be
30:04
Speaker 14: part of the government. No, Steve, seriously, mate, Historically our
30:09
Speaker 14: relationship has only ever been with the National Party. One
30:12
Speaker 14: Nation have un asked for portfolios and those discussions. Look, well,
30:17
Speaker 14: those discussions, well we'll hang on. Those discussions will only
30:20
Speaker 14: ever take place after election. But I can't remember the
30:23
Speaker 14: last action. Well, that wasn't a one nation election. That
30:28
Speaker 14: was about a free money election where Labor bought the
30:30
Speaker 14: election with billions and billions of dollars of free money.
30:33
Speaker 14: That's why they won the election. It wasn't really about
30:35
Speaker 14: one nation. So you know, these things yet to be determined.
30:38
Speaker 14: But though we determined after the election. Steve, all right,
30:41
Speaker 14: question varrogance.
30:41
Speaker 2: My friend, No, and I certainly wouldn't agree with the
30:45
Speaker 2: characterization of you as arrogant.
30:47
Speaker 3: Michael Kroger, just getting that in there, all right, Michael,
30:50
Speaker 3: Steve Price. Good to see you both, and still to come.
30:54
Speaker 2: Major concerns about business and the economy, plus some breaking
30:58
Speaker 2: news about Labour's attack exchanges. A Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson
31:02
Speaker 2: will join me after the break.
31:07
Speaker 3: Well.
31:07
Speaker 2: In breaking news, the Albertezy government has backflipped on its
31:11
Speaker 2: plan to scrap negative gearing for widows. The Australians reporting
31:15
Speaker 2: that Labour has caved into demands to preserve grandfathering of
31:20
Speaker 2: negative gearing on residential homes in case.
31:22
Speaker 3: Of death or divorce.
31:24
Speaker 2: Unwinding its widows tax and exempting testamentary discretionary trusts from
31:30
Speaker 2: the new minimum capital gains tax rate. And Shadow Treasurer
31:34
Speaker 2: Tim Wilson joins me now lie from Rouchie Dolg, Queensland. Tim,
31:37
Speaker 2: great to see you, Thanks for your time. Well, let's
31:40
Speaker 2: start with this breaking news. Are you satisfied with these
31:44
Speaker 2: changes as they're being reported by.
31:46
Speaker 3: The OS.
31:49
Speaker 16: Well, of course we're not satisfied because the government has
31:52
Speaker 16: introduced a series of taxes Australians didn't vote for their
31:56
Speaker 16: pairing it back after laying a series of financial lands
32:00
Speaker 16: across the country. As people are slowly it's discovering them,
32:05
Speaker 16: they're financially maiming households, families and of course widows. The
32:10
Speaker 16: Governor is now trying to diffuse the land mines they've
32:13
Speaker 16: laid across the economy, but it's not enough. They haven't
32:17
Speaker 16: found them all and they're certainly not prepared to diffuse
32:19
Speaker 16: all of them. Australians deserve to go to an election,
32:22
Speaker 16: vote for a government and then for that government to
32:24
Speaker 16: honor its commitments, not to wake up one day when
32:28
Speaker 16: the Prime Minister has, after fifty times promising to the
32:31
Speaker 16: Australian community changed his mind and then turn around and
32:35
Speaker 16: break his word.
32:37
Speaker 2: So even with these changes, you would still unwind the
32:41
Speaker 2: tax reform if you got into government.
32:46
Speaker 15: Well, we shouldn't use the word tax reform.
32:48
Speaker 16: It's a tax grab and it's just a budget that's
32:50
Speaker 16: focused on how it increases the revenue of the government.
32:53
Speaker 16: So we've said consistently we will repeal the measures in
32:57
Speaker 16: the budget that increase capital gains tax because it's hitting
33:01
Speaker 16: startups and small businesses and those who are backing themselves
33:05
Speaker 16: to get ahead. Will change the rules back on negative
33:09
Speaker 16: gearing and of course on trust because what the government
33:12
Speaker 16: is doing is not just tightening ever a sort of
33:16
Speaker 16: an economic news around the small business.
33:18
Speaker 15: Of the country.
33:19
Speaker 16: They're undermining the very basis in which small businesses are
33:23
Speaker 16: the foundation of the Australian economy.
33:25
Speaker 2: Look, we're hearing a lot about first home buyers. Figures
33:28
Speaker 2: show that about thirty four thousand first home buyers are
33:31
Speaker 2: at risk of a two point two billion dollar wipeout
33:34
Speaker 2: with property prices dropping. This is mainly the first home
33:38
Speaker 2: buyers who enter the market with a five percent loan scheme. So,
33:43
Speaker 2: I mean, Tim, what do you think the government should
33:45
Speaker 2: do now to address this situation where you've got thousands,
33:49
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of first home buyers who could be
33:51
Speaker 2: at a major financial loss.
33:55
Speaker 16: Well, it's difficult to know what the government should do.
33:57
Speaker 16: That's a problem that they have created for themselves. They
34:00
Speaker 16: actively stoked young Australians to take out more debt, perhaps
34:04
Speaker 16: than they could afford or certainly that they'd saved for themselves.
34:08
Speaker 15: Now they're finding themselves.
34:09
Speaker 16: In negative equity and essentially hostage to their properties.
34:13
Speaker 15: And of course it's not just them.
34:14
Speaker 16: There's been about two hundred and thirty billion dollars that's
34:16
Speaker 16: been wiped off the value of homes across the country,
34:21
Speaker 16: and that means that there'll be plenty of Australians out
34:23
Speaker 16: there who will be living in negative equity where they
34:26
Speaker 16: owe more than their house is worth, and they're now
34:29
Speaker 16: living to service a bank rather than themselves and advance
34:32
Speaker 16: their own.
34:33
Speaker 15: Wealth and opportunity.
34:34
Speaker 16: Their government has to go back in time effectively and
34:37
Speaker 16: undo the damage they've done. Instead, Australians are just left
34:41
Speaker 16: with the wreckage, I.
34:42
Speaker 2: Mean, the treasure of Jim Charmers over the past couple
34:45
Speaker 2: of days has been celebrating news about the economy. He
34:48
Speaker 2: says more businesses were created in July and that headline
34:52
Speaker 2: inflation is coming down.
34:54
Speaker 3: What's your response to this.
34:58
Speaker 16: Well, I don't want to, you know, I want to
35:01
Speaker 16: be very careful about what I say, but I would
35:03
Speaker 16: say that he probably needs to breathalyzeer. Frankly, the idea
35:07
Speaker 16: that you will be high fiving yourself after seeing a
35:12
Speaker 16: huge number of small businesses being open because people are
35:15
Speaker 16: trying to restructure their finances and declaring this is some
35:18
Speaker 16: new era of growth is frankly just delusional and.
35:22
Speaker 15: A lot of people have called that out. Yes there
35:25
Speaker 15: was a spike, but it was a spike because.
35:26
Speaker 16: People are restructuring their finances at every point. This government
35:31
Speaker 16: has overseen record small business confidence collapsing, record consumer confidence collapsing.
35:39
Speaker 16: And this government simply does not understand the impact its
35:41
Speaker 16: budget has had on the Austraine economy.
35:45
Speaker 2: That was a joke, right when you said he must
35:47
Speaker 2: need a breathalyzer. You're not making actual accusations against the
35:50
Speaker 2: treasure I'm just checking.
35:53
Speaker 16: Well, all I'm saying is that somebody who makes such
35:55
Speaker 16: ridiculous claims needs to really get a sanity check.
35:59
Speaker 15: And this is the problem.
36:00
Speaker 16: The Treasurer and the Prime Minister think that they can
36:02
Speaker 16: spin and lie to the Australian community and get away
36:06
Speaker 16: with it.
36:06
Speaker 15: We need to call out their bs.
36:08
Speaker 16: We need people to understand and Australian people to understand
36:12
Speaker 16: that they are being lied to by this government, and
36:14
Speaker 16: even worse than that they lie so easily. As we've
36:17
Speaker 16: seen in the case of Victoria, we had a government
36:20
Speaker 16: that consistently lied to the public, who saw government as
36:23
Speaker 16: simply a pathway to take from taxpayers to feed themselves
36:27
Speaker 16: and their mates were now the most corrupt government in
36:30
Speaker 16: nearly Australia. You have to argue Australia's history in Victoria
36:33
Speaker 16: and Anthony Albanesi has taken that model and exported it
36:37
Speaker 16: to Canberra.
36:38
Speaker 2: Just a quick couple of questions, just really quickly before
36:42
Speaker 2: we go. You know, there's a lot of discussion about
36:45
Speaker 2: how the Liberal Party should handle one nation. You're one
36:47
Speaker 2: of the only politicians who managed to win a seat
36:50
Speaker 2: back from the tials. Do you think there does need
36:52
Speaker 2: to be a preference deal at the very least done
36:56
Speaker 2: with Pauline Hansen.
36:59
Speaker 16: We always look at preferences on a case by case basis.
37:02
Speaker 16: Pauline Hanson has previously got Fraser Anding elected to the Senate.
37:06
Speaker 16: You know, I'm not a big fan of preferencing people
37:09
Speaker 16: like Fraser Anning who then go on and consort with
37:11
Speaker 16: very undesirable sections of the community. We should look at
37:14
Speaker 16: this in a measured way at the time, factoring and
37:17
Speaker 16: all the information we know that the Greens put up
37:21
Speaker 16: anti Smmittic candidates, you certainly want to put them last.
37:24
Speaker 2: Sure, just very quickly, tim just your reaction to my
37:27
Speaker 2: editorial where I spoke about Jewish leader David Ossp facing
37:31
Speaker 2: a grilling from lawyers acting for Palestinian advocacy groups today
37:35
Speaker 2: the Royal Commission in what I saw as a case
37:37
Speaker 2: of victim blaming.
37:41
Speaker 15: Well, this is what we should be very concerned about.
37:43
Speaker 16: The point of the Royal Commission is to get evidence
37:47
Speaker 16: and truth on the record about the scale of the
37:50
Speaker 16: anti Semitic attacks that have occurred across the country. The
37:54
Speaker 16: Prime Minister from the government has tolerated an escalation of
37:58
Speaker 16: anti Semitism where we basically have the biggest outbreak of
38:01
Speaker 16: racism in Australia's history, and we should be supporting the
38:05
Speaker 16: Jewish community to tell their truth and to make sure
38:07
Speaker 16: that they are able to stand up and speak out
38:09
Speaker 16: because it's important.
38:10
Speaker 15: For the record.
38:11
Speaker 3: Yeah all right, Tim Wilson, thank you very much.
38:14
Speaker 2: And still to come, Simone Abel from the Executive Council
38:17
Speaker 2: of Australian Jury.
38:18
Speaker 3: We'll talk about that very issue.
38:20
Speaker 2: Plus, Albanese's tax changes have sent property prices into freefall,
38:25
Speaker 2: and the experts who will join me next predict that
38:28
Speaker 2: the worst is yet to come.
38:30
Speaker 3: That's after this quick break. Thanks for tuning in.
38:37
Speaker 2: Well, the total value of the national property market has
38:40
Speaker 2: reportedly dropped from twelve point seven trillion dollars to twelve
38:45
Speaker 2: point five trillion in just four months, and enjoining me
38:49
Speaker 2: to discuss is auctioneer Tom Panos and SQM Research managing
38:53
Speaker 2: director Louis Christopher.
38:54
Speaker 3: Thank you both for your time. So, Tom, I mean,
38:57
Speaker 3: that's two.
38:57
Speaker 2: Hundred and thirty billion dollars from the national property market
39:02
Speaker 2: in just four months.
39:03
Speaker 17: It's massive, it's extraordinary, it's extraordinary, and to be honest
39:07
Speaker 17: with you, there's no signs that it's about to change
39:09
Speaker 17: anytime soon. So that number in a month or two
39:12
Speaker 17: months might even be bigger. So Shari, like as I
39:16
Speaker 17: said to you, if no one is happy, and to me,
39:19
Speaker 17: one of the biggest unintended consequences that we're going to
39:22
Speaker 17: face soon is I think there's going to be a
39:24
Speaker 17: big fight between the state government and the federal government.
39:27
Speaker 17: Twenty five percent of revenue for the states or New
39:31
Speaker 17: South Wales comes from stamp duty and that's come to
39:33
Speaker 17: a bit of a halt at the moment. So it's
39:36
Speaker 17: not good at all.
39:37
Speaker 2: I mean, Louis, we're hearing a lot of people say
39:40
Speaker 2: this is the worst they've ever seen, or at least
39:43
Speaker 2: in recent times.
39:45
Speaker 3: How about is this.
39:47
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's been the worst we've seen in some time. Briefly,
39:51
Speaker 12: on the outbreak of COVID, we had a little bit
39:54
Speaker 12: of a panic in the market. They quickly settled down
39:57
Speaker 12: once the government brought in stimulus in to the economy.
40:01
Speaker 12: Before that, we go back to about twenty seventeen, where
40:04
Speaker 12: there was a reasonably sized downturn where housing prices fell
40:08
Speaker 12: by about eight to nine percent, And then before that
40:11
Speaker 12: we need to go back to about twenty eleven. This
40:13
Speaker 12: is a feeling I've been something bigger than the twenty
40:16
Speaker 12: seventeen downturn, that's for sure. We're now recording listings at
40:21
Speaker 12: near record highs, or at record highs or some cities now,
40:24
Speaker 12: and we've been recording this data since the twenty tens.
40:28
Speaker 12: Asking prices are falling fairly quickly now, so vendors are
40:33
Speaker 12: trying to adjust. We've got Sitney down by six percent
40:37
Speaker 12: from its peak in terms of asking prices, yet we're
40:41
Speaker 12: still seeing real lows in auction clearance rates. So despite
40:45
Speaker 12: vendors reducing their asking price, many of them are still
40:49
Speaker 12: not meeting the market. And that is because buyers are
40:52
Speaker 12: continuing to retreat.
40:54
Speaker 3: And you're seeing that firsthand.
40:56
Speaker 17: Tom Well, I mean Shari to give you an idea.
40:59
Speaker 17: On Saturdays, run an auction company, and not only are
41:02
Speaker 17: we having properties not selling, we're having people not register.
41:06
Speaker 17: So what they're basically saying is we know that property
41:09
Speaker 17: prices have dropped, we know that there's bargains out there,
41:12
Speaker 17: but we actually don't have no confidence to bid now
41:14
Speaker 17: because we're concerned if we do and buy a bargain,
41:17
Speaker 17: it's going to be even cheaper next month. That's the
41:20
Speaker 17: concern at the moment. And negative equity is an issue.
41:23
Speaker 17: There's a group of people that have been seduced to
41:25
Speaker 17: buying early with a small deposit. Now some of these people,
41:29
Speaker 17: they're the most vulnerable cohort the first home buyers. So Shari,
41:32
Speaker 17: if they bought a property for a million dollars and
41:34
Speaker 17: it drops ten percent and they borrowed ninety five percent,
41:38
Speaker 17: they've borrowed nine to fifty plus as solicitors fease, plus
41:40
Speaker 17: all those other costs involved with buying. We're talking about
41:43
Speaker 17: young couples losing one hundred thousand dollars as they start
41:47
Speaker 17: off their life.
41:48
Speaker 2: Its incredibly stressful. I mean, Louis, you're saying six percent
41:53
Speaker 2: on average, but then of course in some suburbs the
41:56
Speaker 2: fall is much greater than that.
41:58
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's right. Indeed, I was doing a conference with
42:02
Speaker 12: Tom earlier today and we covered Sydneys East and suburbs.
42:06
Speaker 12: We think asking prices for houses where it's registering a
42:09
Speaker 12: fifteenth percent fall there on houses. Then on the Gold
42:13
Speaker 12: Coasts we're recording about a thirteen percent declining units on
42:17
Speaker 12: the Gold Coast and about an eight percent to climb
42:19
Speaker 12: for houses. So it's vary, but the downturn is overall uniform.
42:25
Speaker 12: It's occurring everywhere now except for perhaps Darwin, but even
42:29
Speaker 12: the Darwin market has slowed down. So this has gone
42:33
Speaker 12: beyond what was initially a city in Melbourne issue before
42:37
Speaker 12: the property taxation changes to a nationwide issue.
42:40
Speaker 2: I mean, Tom, you know, the property tax changes are
42:43
Speaker 2: obviously the instigator for this crash, if you like, But
42:48
Speaker 2: I mean it is the broader downturn.
42:49
Speaker 3: People don't feel well off. The interest rates, the petrol
42:53
Speaker 3: price is the inflation.
42:55
Speaker 17: Yeah, So, Shari, Firstly, when you're telling someone like in
42:59
Speaker 17: the eastern suburbs, as Lewis has just mentioned, hey you
43:02
Speaker 17: are five hundred thousands or a million dollars poorer, Automatically,
43:07
Speaker 17: psychologically that person goes into defense that family actually does
43:11
Speaker 17: not want to invest. Then you turn around and you've
43:15
Speaker 17: got cost of living pressures, fuel We know that the
43:19
Speaker 17: fuel excise comes to an end orid's just come to
43:21
Speaker 17: an end on the weekend. All these things there, and
43:24
Speaker 17: in addition to that, we've got interest rates, which thank god,
43:28
Speaker 17: there appears to be no increase next week, but we're
43:31
Speaker 17: not out of the woods because we're still way over
43:33
Speaker 17: that inflation number. And Shari, if anyone looks deep into
43:40
Speaker 17: what causes inflation, they will turn around and say, hey,
43:43
Speaker 17: our big part of that is a government itself with
43:46
Speaker 17: the way that they're actually going to spend. So there's
43:48
Speaker 17: no sign of all that we're going to get any
43:50
Speaker 17: rate cuts anytime soon. So at this stage it's we
43:56
Speaker 17: got challenges, we got headwinds at the moment, and there's
44:00
Speaker 17: nothing to appear that it's going to change. The only
44:03
Speaker 17: thing I will say is, as long as unemployment doesn't grow,
44:07
Speaker 17: people might not be forced to sell, and if they
44:10
Speaker 17: can hang onto their property, property prices might not go
44:13
Speaker 17: down to that real bottom level because they can hang
44:16
Speaker 17: on to it until the market picks up. We don't
44:19
Speaker 17: know when that will happen, of course.
44:21
Speaker 2: I know looks like it'll be a really lackluster spring market,
44:24
Speaker 2: which is you know when most people look at putting
44:27
Speaker 2: their property on the market. Louis, I don't know if
44:30
Speaker 2: you can make this prediction. You're obviously looking at the data,
44:33
Speaker 2: looking at the research, whereas Tom seeing it off first
44:35
Speaker 2: hand every weekend. But I mean, do you think we
44:38
Speaker 2: are going to get to that sort of crisis recession level?
44:42
Speaker 3: I mean, where is this going?
44:44
Speaker 15: Yeah?
44:44
Speaker 12: Look, I'm not in the camp that thinks this is
44:48
Speaker 12: going to turn into a housing crash. I think we're
44:51
Speaker 12: missing one key ingredient for a crash to occur, and
44:54
Speaker 12: that is an oversupply of new real estate. Rental vacancy
44:59
Speaker 12: rates are still hot around one point two one point
45:01
Speaker 12: three percent. When you look at the crashes which have
45:04
Speaker 12: occurred globally in Japan, in Ireland, in the US, having
45:10
Speaker 12: an oversupplied new real estate was a key ingredient combined
45:13
Speaker 12: with a slow down in population growth. Now we're not
45:16
Speaker 12: having either of those two. So I'm still in the
45:19
Speaker 12: cap at this stage that look, yeah, this downtown is
45:21
Speaker 12: going to be it's going to hurt, but I don't
45:24
Speaker 12: think we're looking at anything like say a thirty percent
45:27
Speaker 12: decline or anything like that. But it will be a
45:30
Speaker 12: painful adjustment. That is what is occurring in the market.
45:34
Speaker 12: And Tom refers to essentially the wealth effect upon the economy,
45:38
Speaker 12: and most economists are aware of that that housing is
45:41
Speaker 12: a big wealth impact upon the greater economy.
45:45
Speaker 2: All right, Louis Tom, thank you so much. Thank you,
45:48
Speaker 2: appreciate your insight. Thank you, all right, and still to calm,
45:51
Speaker 2: the Jewish leader gives her reaction after that disgrace today
45:55
Speaker 2: stay tuned. Lawyers for Palestinian groups today claimed that the
46:03
Speaker 2: Opera House rally wasn't convened to celebrate the harmas attacks,
46:07
Speaker 2: but have a look at this Facebook post that the
46:09
Speaker 2: Palestine Action Group put up just before eleven o'clock at
46:13
Speaker 2: night on October seven, the same day as the Harmas attacks, and.
46:18
Speaker 3: It says that Israel has declared.
46:19
Speaker 2: War on Palestine for the humiliation it suffered today when
46:23
Speaker 2: Palestinians tore down Apartheit walls at a Gaza border and
46:27
Speaker 2: began to enter forty eight land that is rightfully theirs
46:31
Speaker 2: and joining me now is Executive Council of Australian Jury
46:34
Speaker 2: Head of Legal Simone Abel Welcome.
46:37
Speaker 3: How would you interpret that post?
46:39
Speaker 8: I think there's really only one way to interpret it.
46:42
Speaker 8: I think the fact that they use the word humiliation
46:45
Speaker 8: or humiliate, it's like they're rejoicing in what happened on
46:48
Speaker 8: October seventh. There's an element of glee, and that was
46:50
Speaker 8: something that was observed as well at the time. On
46:53
Speaker 8: October seventh, was just the sheer glee of the terrorists
46:57
Speaker 8: who attacked civilians in Israel.
47:00
Speaker 2: Today, at the Royal Commission, we saw David Ussip, outgoing
47:04
Speaker 2: President of the New South I was Jewish Board of Deputies,
47:06
Speaker 2: interrogated by lawyers for different Palestinian groups. Do you think
47:11
Speaker 2: this was appropriate that he was asked to account for
47:14
Speaker 2: Israel's supposed actions in Gaza.
47:17
Speaker 8: I think the fact that you have one of the
47:20
Speaker 8: leaders of the New South Wales Jewish community having to
47:24
Speaker 8: answer those kinds of questions when clearly what we were
47:27
Speaker 8: there to discuss was domestic anti Semitism and the impact
47:31
Speaker 8: on the Australian Jewish community is just unacceptable and I think,
47:35
Speaker 8: you know, we all feel quite affronted by that, and
47:38
Speaker 8: it felt as though there was an element of gas
47:41
Speaker 8: lighting as well about the movement and what its real
47:43
Speaker 8: intentions are.
47:45
Speaker 2: Do you think it was this dangerous conflation of Australian
47:49
Speaker 2: Jews and a foreign war.
47:51
Speaker 8: I think that's been one of the issues all along,
47:54
Speaker 8: is that we are scapegosted by this movement. Irrespective of
47:58
Speaker 8: where we stand on the political specim what we believe in,
48:01
Speaker 8: it's not relevant at the end of the day. We're
48:03
Speaker 8: all Australians, we live here. We have the right to
48:07
Speaker 8: you know, gather in the CBD and to do all
48:10
Speaker 8: sorts of things that we haven't been able to do.
48:12
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, one of the lawyers representing the Jewish group, Zoe Hill,
48:16
Speaker 2: meant try to object, but the Commissioner, Virginia Bell overruled
48:20
Speaker 2: her and allowed the questions to go ahead.
48:23
Speaker 8: I think, you know, I'm not going to question what
48:26
Speaker 8: the Commissioner has done. I have to hope and we
48:29
Speaker 8: have to hope that there's so much evidence before the
48:31
Speaker 8: Commission now about the protest movement and also about the
48:34
Speaker 8: correlation between anti Semitic incidents and the protests. And I
48:38
Speaker 8: can tell you in my role at ECJ, I've seen
48:42
Speaker 8: spikes in anti Semitic incidents around the significant protests that
48:46
Speaker 8: have taken place in Australia. So for me, it's not
48:49
Speaker 8: at all ambiguous that there is a link between violence
48:52
Speaker 8: and these hateful words that are taking place.
48:54
Speaker 2: Because one of the questions the Commissioner put to David
48:57
Speaker 2: Osset today was you know, was it the timing of
48:59
Speaker 2: the protest when the Jews were grieving? Is that why
49:03
Speaker 2: you know it was so hard to handle the Upper
49:06
Speaker 2: House rally? And so I just felt like, you know,
49:09
Speaker 2: there's not a full understanding yet of the fact that
49:13
Speaker 2: it's you know, the terror flags that are flown, the
49:16
Speaker 2: chants that are so distressing at any point, not just
49:19
Speaker 2: after October seven.
49:21
Speaker 8: I think for anyone Jewish or non Jewish hearing chance
49:24
Speaker 8: of death to any other person in our democracy is
49:29
Speaker 8: just really horrific and an affront to all the values
49:31
Speaker 8: that we stand for.
49:33
Speaker 3: And I don't think, you know.
49:34
Speaker 8: This is not about It's not about what's happening overseas.
49:38
Speaker 8: At the end of the day, as I said, we
49:41
Speaker 8: as a community have a right to gather peacefully, just
49:43
Speaker 8: as any other community. And I think that that particular
49:46
Speaker 8: rally had a really chilling effect. And we've spoken as
49:48
Speaker 8: well last time, Shari about the impact and the two
49:52
Speaker 8: year anniversary and the plan to hold the rally then,
49:55
Speaker 8: and it was prohibited for a good reason.
49:58
Speaker 2: I mean, it's still galling to think that really there
50:02
Speaker 2: weren't any that we know of criminal charges relating to
50:06
Speaker 2: that Upper House rally.
50:08
Speaker 8: I think looking back on the footage, it astounds me, honestly,
50:11
Speaker 8: because there was so much that has been documented that
50:14
Speaker 8: is wholly unlawful, just to my eyes, an unacceptable lawyer. Yeah, absolutely,
50:21
Speaker 8: And you know, I think it's pretty telling as well
50:23
Speaker 8: that the only real police action on the night, as
50:25
Speaker 8: far as I'm aware, was to warn Jewish people away,
50:29
Speaker 8: and in fact to take away a Jewish person who
50:33
Speaker 8: appeared with a flag.
50:35
Speaker 3: Arresting him for his own safety apparently. Indeed, he's terrible.
50:39
Speaker 2: Simon Abele, really appreciate you joining us in the studio
50:41
Speaker 2: and thank you for all your hard work.
50:43
Speaker 8: Thanks so much for having me all.
50:45
Speaker 3: Right, I'll be back tomorrow at eight o'clock. And right
50:48
Speaker 3: now he's Paul Murray.