Latest / The SEANC View / Budget Standoff, Map Drama, and the Fight for Raises and COLAs

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Budget Standoff, Map Drama, and the Fight for Raises and COLAs · The SEANC View

0:00
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Scenic View podcast.
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I'm your host, Jonathan Owens, alongside Artis Watkins, Suzanne Beasley, and Sammy Klein.
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I spent with the titles this week. Yeah, we still need titles.
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We didn't need them anymore. We've gone, what, I bet we've gone 72 episodes.
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So I think at this point people know us. 73rd episode. Household names. Yeah. Yeah.
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Well, we got a lot to cover this week. Short three-day session at the legislature,
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but a lot to talk about. So let's get to it.
0:42
So the state legislature did return on, I guess, Monday, the Senate came back,
0:47
and then Tuesday, the House took session.
0:50
So they made a lot of national headlines with their congressional map redistricting.
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But for our folks, not a lot changed, right?
1:01
That's correct. Yeah, the big focus this week was obviously,
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I think I said it in my video, unless you're living under a rock,
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Everybody knows, heard it in your news, either on social media,
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wherever you get your information from about the congressional maps being redrawn
1:16
this week. So that definitely was a big focus.
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There were committee meetings where they allowed.
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Can you explain real quick, though, why redistricting right now is unique or wouldn't matter?
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So, you know, whatever party is in charge, they get the ability to redraw maps.
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Democrats got to redraw the maps when they were in power. You know,
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that's a thing that happens, but this was outside of the— It's every 10 years.
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Yeah, this carved out another district, which will assure that there are enough red seats in Congress.
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So the stated goal, if I was hearing this correctly,
1:52
was, I mean, it was said by Senate and House leaders that President Trump wanted
1:58
our legislature in North Carolina to respond to the activities in Texas,
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which had drawn their districts mid-cycle,
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because this was mid-cycle for us, a very unusual thing to do.
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And Texas gave, if things go the way they drew them, they will give more Republican
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seats in Congress in the midterm elections.
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California responded by saying, Texas, you should not have done that.
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California's has got a weird wrinkle, though. They said, we're going to draw
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it to where there's likely to be more Democratic seats out of California.
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However, California's has to go to the voters.
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Their legislature couldn't just draw them outright and do it.
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So North Carolina's legislative leaders seem to be saying in the last few days,
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President Trump wants us to respond to what California did.
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So here's our response. I think the big issue here is you're focused on this.
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And I heard this from, we heard this from the general public that was there.
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We heard it from protesters that showed up this week.
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I've heard it just in conversations with people I know.
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But even a lot of legislators, we're here focusing on congressional maps and
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we don't even have a budget yet.
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The bigger issue is not having a budget. Back a number of times on a bunch of
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stuff and haven't done a budget. I mean, well, I mean, that was the thing.
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And here we are again. And we're focused on something else besides passing a
3:16
comprehensive state budget.
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So, you know, all the things need to happen.
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And, you know, that's important. Obviously, those are our issues.
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But there are other things in the budget that need to be funded and get some attention.
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So it's problematic that we don't have a state budget. Let's back up just a second.
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Can you explain, I guess, what the holdup is? What is the issue?
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Why are they not going to?
3:38
So, yeah, understanding this week anyway.
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So the House doesn't want to
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agree to the tax cuts and the personal income tax that the Senate wants.
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That was agreed upon by a different General Assembly under different leadership.
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So that's where we hit the bump in the road. The House is just not moving on
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that because they were not the ones who made the promise.
4:00
Leadership was not the ones who made the promise. It was a different.
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The argument of the House is there wouldn't be enough money to pay the bill. That's true.
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And that's coming from both parties, obviously, the Democrats,
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but even the Republicans realize that.
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So but there's that's a hard line on the Senate side. So nothing is moving.
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There has been some discussion, you know, the House wanted more money for state
4:23
employees and some retiree money.
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Senate does not. So, yeah, it's just the biggest doggone stalemate ever.
4:31
Just, you know. Is that strange, given that both the House and the Senate are
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controlled by the same party? Or do you see that often?
4:39
No, it's not unusual to see. No, but I think that there's usually a little bit
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of an appetite for negotiating and actually coming to an agreement on some level.
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Even if it's through many budgets, we still keep things funded and keep things moving along.
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I don't know. Remember the year we were there right before Thanksgiving?
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We were actually more than one year.
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Yeah, I mean, we've had our people down there. member. And that was when Democrats
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were in charge of the House and Senate.
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And there were many times they would be at loggerhead. I think it just depends what somebody's.
5:15
Signature issue is going to be in the Senate's pretty much decided,
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look, continuing to lower that personal income tax rate, which the stated intention
5:24
was in a continued march towards zero, being a state without personal income tax, which is great.
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No one wants to pay state personal income tax.
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However, they want the services that that pays for and they want the really
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strong university system and stuff like that.
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And they want to complain when DMV isn't. Right. And I think therein lies the problem.
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You know, what are you going to do? There's not enough money.
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So, you can't have all the things. It's like sitting down with your personal
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budget. You can't have all the things.
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You have to figure out what doesn't get done.
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Well, first you have to have an actual budget. And prioritize those things. Right.
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Well, what's not getting done in this is us. In terms of the state employees
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raises and the COLAs for retirement. I mean, not even in a mini budget, you know.
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The House yesterday did pass, you know, which both chambers have passed some kind of spending bill.
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The thing is, those spending bills aren't crossing over to the other chamber
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to be heard, you know, and both chambers have to agree for this to happen.
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So, you know, the Senate did their spending bill this week, which most of that
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was focused on Medicaid.
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Then the House came in yesterday with Senate Bill 599, which they gutted and
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put in the language from their original House budget that they passed.
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So that does include, you know, the pay raises, the steps.
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There were some bonuses in there. You know, it does include all that.
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However, just because it passed the House doesn't mean it's moving anywhere.
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We've still got to have a budget for all these things to happen,
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even though they were approved in these bills.
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Both sides have to approve. Both chambers have to approve them.
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The House is not hearing the Senate legislation.
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The Senate's not hearing the House legislation. And we don't have a comprehensive
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budget to move either one of them.
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So please don't get confused. I know it sounds good. You hear the House passed
7:12
this thing, but this thing isn't going to move.
7:15
Yeah. We have to have a budget for things to move. And in the News and Observer
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story on this today, Representative Erin Paré, is that right? Paré.
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Paré pointed out the comprehensive budget negotiation that we're all waiting
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on. That's how the raises would happen. That's right.
7:31
That's right. That's, you know, over the years we've seen bills that are filed,
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you know, separate standalone bills for a COLA.
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You know, you see a bill for a COLA, a bill for pay raises.
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And those are great. They keep the conversation going. and they keep it,
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you know, out front so everybody's hearing about it. But those bills aren't going to pass either.
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Those things are handled through the state budget always.
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Yeah. Now, with that being said, like, what about a mini budget to take care of that? Would that?
7:59
So they could. Yeah. I mean, and they've done that before, carved out whatever
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piece of the budget, which could be our pay raises, retiree money.
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That could all be in one mini budget.
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They still have to pay for it. Bill, they still have to pay for it.
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Yeah. So I just see here that that bill passed 110 to zero.
8:16
Yeah. You'd think that with that much support in one house, you could find some sort of package for...
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But let's not forget what the House passed in that bill in terms of pay raises,
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this symbolic bill. Yes, yes.
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Is those pay raises would still be very inadequate when the House came out with
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their, but this is the exact same thing the House put in their version of the
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budget, which had pay raises that were disrespectfully low.
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Yeah, two and a half percent. To most of state government.
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Now, they did very well in some pockets where we really do need to.
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Yeah, this step. plans and be competitive and there's no enforcement.
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But for most of the state employees and for all of the retirees,
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it was a disrespectful budget.
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And I take issue with the fact that people keep referring to what was put in
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that budget for retirees on the floor as a COLA.
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It is not. It is not. It's a bonus.
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Nothing about that money has anything to do with a COLA.
9:16
So calling it a COLA bonus or calling it a COLA supplement, anything with the
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word COLA in it is And a lot of times they kept saying 2%, the 2% for retirees.
9:25
Well, that's misleading, y'all.
9:27
I don't think anybody really intended to mislead by saying that,
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but the effect of that is very misleading.
9:33
If a retiree hears that, they think that if you say 2%, that means COLA. Yeah.
9:39
I mean, last night I was still answering comments on social media,
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some text messages, some emails from folks who were confused about that.
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You know, you throw it out there and people hear it and they get excited.
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They think something's going to happen. Or they're like, that's it,
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you know, that's all we're getting.
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And so I've had to explain a number of times that this isn't the final place
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that we stop. But the amount of money is still minuscule.
10:01
It's not a COLA. It's not going to raise your base benefit.
10:04
Right. And for, again, most of the active employees, and we have vacancy problems
10:09
all over state government.
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This wouldn't do anything to keep people, even if it was real and not just something. Well, exactly.
10:17
And, you know, what we still hear, because it's the truth, is they're going
10:21
to have premium increases. So that's coming up.
10:23
So they're still going in the hole. Two and a half percent, they're getting
10:27
a premium increase. So you're still going in the hole.
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Yeah. And just to take you on a little journey here with where my thought process
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is going, like, at the same time, other employers, private employers are probably
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giving raises, right? Right.
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So they become even more attractive to state employees when they're not getting raises at their work.
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What's to stop them from going somewhere else? So we're just going to keep losing people. Right.
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Yeah. I mean, absolutely. We're kind of a training ground.
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I've reached out to OSHR and at the moment there doesn't seem to be a specific
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number for the cost of turnover.
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But we know that that's— Well, the last time there was a cost,
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which was before the vacancy rate got acute post-COVID, even the last time,
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it was more than half a billion dollars then.
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So, I bet people did stop keeping track of that because it would be sobering and distressing.
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You know, and Representative Prather even touched on that. She didn't give a
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number either in her comments yesterday, but she touched on the fact that this
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is costing so much money to this day.
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If you've run a business, you know. That's right. It costs you money if you
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have turnover. Taxpayer issue.
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Just an aside, a little podcast promotion. You said OSHR, we will be having
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OSHR director on. Is it next week or is it?
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Okay. Super excited about that. Exciting.
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Stacey Meyer. So stay tuned for that. But back to the session.
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You, Artis, you mentioned that,
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you know, they've had several of these sessions and nothing happened.
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I think what makes this a little different is because, what,
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House Speaker Dayston Hall said that they are not going to take votes.
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Yeah, Speaker Hall, you know, at the end of session, notices and announcements,
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he announced that he did not anticipate any more votes this year.
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Now, the adjournment resolution requires there be a session in November and
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a session in December, but they hold skeletal sessions when they're not doing
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actual business. There will be no votes.
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Anything can change. It's the legislature, but he made that announcement,
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so you can pretty much count on that they're done.
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I did hear a lot of chatter yesterday that they won't do anything until after
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primaries, which makes sense, too.
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So that will put us right at short session. And if you guys remember,
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we talked about this at the first adjournment by the General Assembly.
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You know, we were told by folks in leadership that it would probably be short
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session before they actually did a comprehensive budget. So that looks like
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what's probably going to happen.
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Every month that there's no raise, that's money the state saves.
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It is. And so there's going to be a whole year that goes by,
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in all likelihood, where the state can try to make the fiscal outlook of the
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state look better by not giving raises or not giving anything to retirees.
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But this is not new to state employees and retirees because this chronic vacancy
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crisis since COVID has put billions in the state back in the state coffers.
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So when you look at what's there, it's not always because of policies.
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It's because of the services we did not make sure people are getting, if that makes sense.
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I don't know if that, if you've got those jobs vacant and you're therefore keeping
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more money around because of that, that's not the economy's great because the
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policies are working. That's just on paper.
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That's not services being delivered.
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Which is where people are feeling this. Right. So, Suzanne. So that money that
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they're saving, where's it going?
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Well, I mean, right now, it's not money.
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When it was vacant positions, that money just reverted.
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Right. But this isn't money that's sitting there because it's not being spent.
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But if you're trimming your costs by not taking care of your workforce.
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Yeah. Would be your first thing you deal with. So, essentially,
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they're almost making cuts by inaction, right? So basically what I'm trying
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to say is we keep seeing more and more government, but less government services.
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Yes, yes. It used to be that people said, we want a smaller government.
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And they quite literally meant, I want less employees.
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And now I think it's an odd place we're in where government is getting huge
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in terms of its reach into our lives. But in terms of the support it offers
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our lives, it's diminishing.
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Yeah, that's the hurtful part. Right.
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So and I think, you know, your basic Joe Q taxpayer probably doesn't ever put
14:56
those dots together and say, oh, you know what?
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When I call the secretary of state's office, it's longer for my small business to get a return call.
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That probably is because there's vacant.
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That's not what's what's rolling through their minds. But again,
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I think we talked about this a few podcasts ago in our membership,
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which is scenic members are all over the map politically.
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They're very representative of the state in terms of that so that's kind of a gift for us however.
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One thing I've seen is they're becoming less partisan in some ways than the
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general public seems to be because they do see it.
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And they're like, look, again, we said this last week, they don't really care
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who's in Don Davis's seat so much.
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They very much care that there's not a budget.
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They know the effects on their own personal pocketbook, but they also know the
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effects on the public in their agency when there's not a budget.
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That's right. And we're not moving North Carolina forward.
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So I think public employees are getting pretty jaded by the process, to say the least.
16:03
I think everyone is. And I think that what you just said leads to a lot of that.
16:07
Like people see that they're not getting the services they need and they automatically
16:11
blame the government. I think it's lazy employees is what they think.
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And it's not all, I mean, it's obviously. DMV was the perfect,
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always the perfect example of exactly that.
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Not getting the services, being angry at the employees, thinking they're the
16:26
reason when actually it's lack of investment from our government.
16:31
Well, I think that kind of leads to our next topic. I mean, it does.
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These efficiency committees that are about to come meet, what is it, next week?
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Which one is meeting? Yeah, so next week is the House Select Committee on Government
16:43
Efficiency. What do we call it? What was that? We called it Scode.
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Representative Torbett, Representative Kidwell are the chairpersons of that committee.
16:52
And they finally had their first meeting a couple of weeks ago.
16:55
So they're starting to hear from different segments of government,
16:59
you know, where they possibly can address waste, fraud and abuse, those issues.
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So we did a little poking around yesterday to find out what was on the agenda
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for next week's meeting.
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It wasn't on the website yet, and we're told by both the chairpersons that it
17:14
will be DMV and DOT presentations. So we're expecting to hear from the auditor
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next week, Auditor Bullock, about his report that he did on DMV.
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It's unclear. I don't think that there are going to be any recommendations from,
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I haven't gotten that indication from anyone that I spoke with so far,
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that come out next week, but we can look for some kind of recommendations about
17:35
how to address the issues,
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you know, particularly at DMV, and those are probably going to include some
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privatization discussions, which, you know, obviously scenic as opposed to privatizing
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state services when you've got great people who already do the work.
17:51
So, yeah, stay tuned on that. Haven't we spent a lot of money,
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though, with all these sessions and we don't have a budget? Right.
17:58
So, I'm just being honest here. Like, it's hard to sit there and talk about
18:04
waste and efficiency when the job's not getting done and it's very costly to not get the job done.
18:10
That's hard after a while. That's not efficient.
18:14
I will be very interested to see how they handle that. I think that'd be a tough
18:20
one to pull off right now.
18:21
We had Representative Torbett in our old studio, your office, a few months.
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But I guess it was March or April, right?
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So you can go back and listen to that podcast. And I actually revisited it this
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week. But, yeah, it was a good podcast.
18:37
It was. And we've thought, you know, transparency of state health plan contracts,
18:41
transparency of what we're paying in fees to Wall Street in the retirement system.
18:47
Those are things that we've already teed up for for that committee.
18:51
What a perfect place to address those. And we're talking billions there. Billions.
18:55
Yeah. So you want to talk about, you know, getting rid of some waste and inefficiency.
19:01
Yeah, Professor Torbett was great to come talk with us.
19:03
He's a great guy. He is. And I think that he's a very well-meaning legislator.
19:10
I just think it's really hard to do that.
19:13
I think his committee's been put in a bad position, again, because a lot of
19:18
money's been wasted coming to Raleigh a bunch of times without doing the main
19:23
job the legislature's supposed to do.
19:24
And I think after a while, that makes it very hard to then look at the agencies
19:29
and kind of armchair quarterback them. Yeah.
19:32
How do you do that when you don't even have your spending plan in place? All right.
19:36
Yeah, they waste so much money coming to Raleigh, they're not going to save
19:40
anything from the tax problem that they're arguing about, right?
19:44
And interesting, I've even heard legislators say that. Oh, a lot of them are
19:47
grumbling about that. We're spending all this money to pay for us to come back
19:50
to town, and we don't have a budget.
19:52
Yeah, because they're our-time employees, pretty much. They don't.
19:55
They have lives and jobs. We are supposed to have a citizen legislature,
20:00
a part-time legislature, so that regular people can run for office and participate
20:05
in making policy for the state of North Carolina. They can't do that right now.
20:10
And in the interest of transparency, I've said a number of times to the press,
20:15
not just this year, but in past years, we don't really care so much about getting
20:19
it done by July 1 as getting it done right.
20:23
But there does come a point in time where. Okay.
20:27
Yeah. At some point. Yeah, it does matter. Not by July 1, necessarily.
20:33
Yeah, you can have some wiggle room. Because sometimes they would get it done
20:36
later, make the raise retroactive.
20:39
So you still, you know, you still get paid, even if it's not on time.
20:42
But here we are creeping up on November. Right. No closer to a budget.
20:47
I mean, if they wait till the short session, it'll be probably April or May, right?
20:51
And then... Yeah, short session starts in April. And then they have,
20:55
what, seven months of a budget, and they'll have to do it all they can, right?
20:59
I mean, this is just a mess at this point. And if you're listening,
21:02
you're probably thinking, okay, we get it. They haven't come up with a budget.
21:07
So what are you doing about it, Scenic?
21:10
And that's a really good question. What we do every day is try to push these
21:16
issues with legislators,
21:18
try to make the case for why you should matter as a state employee or as a retiree
21:24
and why that matters to everyone in the state, honestly, how you're treated.
21:30
And Suzanne, what else would you say to somebody who wants to know what's CENIC doing about this?
21:36
Well, I mean, first of all, you've got a team on the ground consistently.
21:40
If the legislature's there, by gosh, we're there.
21:43
Continuing these conversations, making sure that they stay aware.
21:47
The perfect example, back when they were hearing Arena's Law,
21:51
there was discussion about, you know, there not being enough beds to handle
21:55
mental health crisis issues and people who may need that kind of help.
21:59
And the reason that there are not enough beds, there are beds there,
22:02
but we don't have enough employees because of the vacancy issue.
22:06
So all those kind of conversations have to continue to happen.
22:10
So that, you know, lawmakers stay aware that that's the reason we need a budget.
22:14
You've got to fund the services, first of all, but you've got to pay people
22:17
in order to entice people to come to work for the state. And awareness of what these agencies do.
22:22
And awareness of what the agencies do. Otherwise, what's going to happen?
22:26
A scalpel, chainsaw, whatever you want to say, is going to come out and start
22:30
whacking at government as another way to try to get to the position where you
22:34
can continue with the tax cuts.
22:37
And honestly it's just easy to do it if you don't have in your face what the
22:41
agencies do and that's a part of why this podcast why we talk to so many agencies
22:46
about tell us what your folks do.
22:49
Because even legislators, they can't be expected to know everything going on
22:54
in every agency unless you tell them.
22:55
One of the big things when we go around talking to legislators,
22:58
and we've got a lot of new legislators, so there's a lot of education that we're having to provide.
23:03
But, you know, one of our jobs, too, is to make ourselves a resource to legislators.
23:08
So, you know, not only are we educating them, but if they're like,
23:11
OK, well, wait a minute, what about this?
23:14
Let me call scenic. So that relationship building is the biggest thing we do
23:19
over there to make scenic, you know, a resource and the place to go when you
23:23
have questions or issues.
23:25
There are lots of times when there's legislation in the making where they come
23:28
and find us. What's your position on this?
23:30
Yeah. So you have to you have to have that voice in the building all the time
23:33
for them to be able to come and ask the question.
23:36
So we're and we're used to being last on the list. I don't care who's in charge
23:40
because we lived through years of the Democrats being in charge of the House and Senate.
23:46
And the governor's mansion for most of those years. And we've lived through
23:49
years of Republicans controlling the House and Senate.
23:52
We're at the bottom of everybody's list because it's an expensive thing nobody
23:56
really wants to spend money on, and that's public services.
23:59
They get mad if they don't have the public services. They don't like the idea of paying for them.
24:04
So, again, we're used to it. I will say Senator Berger made sure we weren't
24:11
put last on that list for a while there with some mini-budgets.
24:15
And, you know, things are different politically right now. And so we're back
24:19
kind of at the bottom of the list for everybody. That's where you come in as the listener.
24:23
If you're a state employer or retiree, you've got to give that pressure because,
24:27
trust me, corporations that want special incentives and things like that,
24:31
they're calling all the time. You've got to call. They've got people on the ground.
24:35
So, you know, Scenic is your voice. And I often say this when somebody asks,
24:41
why is it worth it, you know, being a Scenic member? Well, your voice is being heard over there.
24:47
Can you imagine if there's nobody over there advocating for this?
24:50
I mean, it would just, it would be out the window. There would be no discussion, period.
24:54
You wouldn't be on the table at all. So even when we're at the bottom of the
24:57
list, the benefit of having scenic is that you have a voice over there all the
25:02
time. So you might be on the edge of the table, but by gosh,
25:05
we're on the table. Well, yeah, you would have nothing.
25:08
Nothing. Because nobody's giving you a raise or money as a retiree just because
25:13
they have a feel-good spot for it.
25:16
Yeah, and I think also it's great to reach out to your legislators.
25:21
We always advocate for that. I think we could also maybe move a little public perception if we...
25:27
Maybe had some members send us some videos of why or how you're being affected
25:31
by not having a budget or something like that.
25:34
And let's just compile some of those and let's make it public.
25:37
That would be great. So I think we'll put that in the scoop.
25:40
Send us a 5 or 10 second, 20 second, whatever. I mean, it doesn't have to be
25:44
long. And we can really make your voices heard.
25:48
Tell them where to send it. Getting creative. It'll be in the scoop because I'll have to make a form.
25:52
Well, but maybe somebody's listening who's not a member and doesn't get the
25:55
scoop. Podcast at scenic.org.
25:58
These are all tools in our toolbox to help us make the case for you.
26:02
And it is powerful when it comes from constituents.
26:04
And I know you guys, you know, sometimes you're like, you ask me to call all
26:08
the time, but I don't get a response.
26:11
You know, what good is it doing? If you're a retiree, do a short little snippet
26:15
of yourself, a little video saying what you're not going to spend in your community
26:19
because you're not getting your income.
26:21
I think we're at a point at some point. They still have to hear from you.
26:23
Yes, I think we're at a point at some point we have to escalate the fight to a different level.
26:29
You take it to the public at some point. So, yeah, I mean, it's.
26:32
And that's always been a battle. Public perspective, the state employees, you know.
26:36
Yeah. And some support from people seeing members in action. Yeah.
26:40
And we do get a lot of comments on social media. This is because the Republicans
26:44
are in charge. No, it isn't.
26:46
Democrats, like I said, when they were in charge, we fought the same fights.
26:49
So, honestly, this isn't about party. it's about policy and where you yeah I
26:57
mean the priorities are going to be the squeakiest wheel so get those videos
27:01
in yeah and Scenic's not about party either so let's you know well no we can't
27:05
be because our is issue driven,
27:08
Our members are all over the place. Oh, yeah. So that'll be fun. I think we need some.
27:12
Yeah, send us some videos, y'all. That's a great idea. We'll throw them all
27:15
to Sam and let her take care.
27:18
So she's going to be our TikTok influencer. Yeah.
27:23
Scenic influencer. We need to start that program, by the way.
27:26
Just some influencers to push our message.
27:29
I like it. Anyway, that's a kind of. Think inside of the box.
27:33
Getting with the times. Let's go back inside of the box for a second.
27:36
The retirement system will be meeting on October 30th. What do you see coming out of that?
27:41
So this is the meeting where the actuaries come and give the valuation report.
27:47
So there will be a long, boring meeting. Well, I mean, I don't know that I ever
27:51
call it boring because I learn something every single time.
27:54
You know, it's complicated stuff. If you're not an actuary, you have to listen carefully.
28:01
So several slideshows, right? Several slideshows, several slideshows.
28:05
So I remember when I first started Scenic, one of the first meetings,
28:10
period, I was sent to was that meeting.
28:12
And I was like, oh, my God, is this what this job's going to be?
28:17
Yeah, so this is where they'll discuss earned, you know, what,
28:22
the 12 years paying into the unfunded liability.
28:26
There's going to be discussion of extending that to 15 years.
28:29
You know, haven't seen all the materials yet, the reports from the actuary.
28:33
Treasurer Briner talked about that when he was here on our podcast.
28:36
Yeah, he did. So, yeah, that was an informative podcast.
28:39
It's kind of similar to, like, taking a 30-year mortgage out instead of a 15-year
28:43
mortgage, right? Well, yeah, because our amortization rate is really different than a lot of states.
28:50
But also want to point out, again, the way our folks'
28:55
retirement check is calculated in the first place is different than more than
28:59
half of the states, which use a formula that makes it a significantly higher
29:04
number they get in terms of percentage of what their pay had been as their retirement check.
29:10
And they do here. Our people get lower. Yeah, we get lower. Yeah.
29:13
And we talked about that as well on our podcast. We did, yeah.
29:16
If you haven't listened to the one we did a few weeks ago with Treasurer Briner, take a listen.
29:20
Yeah, lots of good information in that one. But the thing about the meeting
29:24
on the 30th is people need to have information about who the board is so they
29:29
can contact them about what do you do with the gains.
29:33
And we talked to Treasurer Briner about that as well.
29:36
Let's say the gains are outstanding. Let's say they made 30% on their investments.
29:42
What do you do with that? Now, Treasurer Briner has to answer to a lot of bosses out there.
29:49
He's got the folks in the system. He's got the legislature. He's got the public.
29:53
He's got to make all these constituents happy, right?
29:56
Our concern is we have such a huge system and,
30:00
Even when we were making tremendous gains, there supposedly wasn't enough money for COLAS.
30:07
So then we weren't making as much money. Well, there's not much money to give,
30:10
so we can't give money to COLAS.
30:12
We go back to making a lot of money. Is that going to change life for retirees,
30:15
or are they still going to tell them, we don't have money to give you a COLAS? That would be hogwash.
30:21
Yeah, so you've heard us speak of the ECRIS before. That acronym means the Employer
30:26
Contribution Rate Stabilization Policy.
30:30
Which means what the state puts in, this would keep a cap on that so that you're
30:36
not asking so much from the state.
30:39
So if there are gains over and above that cap, you know, what happens to them?
30:43
Will operational costs come out of that money to keep the system going?
30:47
And then there's never enough. There's never that amount substantial enough to give a COLA.
30:54
So, yeah, being that this is the year that they will revamp the ECHRIS,
30:58
that they will have conversations about it, that's every five years.
31:00
Now seems the perfect time for us to be making the case for spending that money on a COLA.
31:06
Yeah. You know, like we tell people the system is built to provide its own COLA and it is from gain.
31:12
So if we have, you know, a really good year, then those funds need to address
31:18
the people's pocketbook.
31:20
And not to begrudge any state employee for getting a job or anything and any
31:26
investment in state employees. But you just said that the administrative costs come out of that money.
31:32
And isn't that going to be higher now because they've brought so many investment things?
31:38
Yeah, but it won't. It's not going to. That doesn't. I mean,
31:41
you're talking $130 billion fund.
31:45
That's true. Yeah. Yeah. No. And they need to have qualified investment people.
31:51
Bring that stuff in-house. Stop paying as many fees.
31:53
I mean, you can't see the fees. But, you know, we understand if you look at
31:58
other public systems where you can see the fees that they're probably pretty high.
32:02
Back to the, just a second on the unfunded liability.
32:06
Seems to me that that's always seen as kind of the boogeyman for a lot of these
32:11
discussions. I mean, everybody's not going to retire at one time.
32:14
Yeah, that's, let me explain a little bit. Yeah, so the unfunded liability is,
32:18
you know, you take your asset to liability ratio.
32:20
How much money we have in the system, again, it's over $130 billion,
32:24
versus your liability. If everybody retired today that was eligible,
32:28
how much would it cost us? and everybody's not going to retire at the same time
32:32
because they have different amounts of service and they don't all qualify.
32:35
They qualify at staggered rates because that's how they were hired.
32:38
So it became a really popular thing, gosh, I think about 15 years ago to start
32:43
talking about the unfunded liability of these systems, how it was just crushing
32:48
and that's all we heard from the legislature for a while.
32:51
Then everybody stopped talking about it at the legislature. But Dale Falwell,
32:56
when he was treasurer, he was very focused on it and got our unfunded liability
33:00
marked, you know, to come down a bunch.
33:04
But his whole argument was like, look, one of the ways we get this unfunded
33:08
liability to come down is to stop overpaying, you know, for the fees associated
33:15
with these investments.
33:17
And same on the health plan side, stop overpaying for our health care.
33:21
And then nobody wanted to talk about it. So it's one of those things that gets
33:26
thrown out when it needs to be thrown out. So, if I'm the legislature and I
33:30
don't want to contribute as much to the system, I'm going to start talking unfunded
33:34
liability again. Boogeyman. Yeah.
33:36
Anything not to pay the COLA, right? So, that's the way not only it feels to
33:41
retirees, but it has been. Yeah.
33:43
Anything under both parties not to give them a COLA.
33:47
All right. Well, that was the news portion of the Scenic View podcast.
33:52
No, obviously we'll keep watching everything down at the legislature and that's
33:56
our job. But yeah, take action and send us some videos.
34:00
Tell us what's going on. We'll get you on the World Wide Web. That would be so cool.
34:04
Yeah. I think it's time for people to stand up. Yeah. I mean,
34:07
we've reached that point. We have reached that point, you guys,
34:11
and moving with the times.
34:13
Let's have some tools in the toolbox that kind of reach out to.
34:16
And our best tool is our members, right?
34:18
Yeah, I mean, your stories do matter to your elected representatives. They do matter.
34:22
And if they hear what you're not spending in your community,
34:24
retirees, and if they hear what your experience is, actives with your agency.
34:30
I know some people may not feel comfortable doing a video about how,
34:33
boy, it's bad times around here with all the vacancies, because then they might
34:37
think that's going to get them in trouble at work.
34:39
But you might tell them, here's the things I'm not doing with my family because
34:44
my income's not rising, but my health care costs are.
34:47
Or because we're short-staffed, I'm having to work a ridiculous amount of hours,
34:51
so I'm missing my children's recitals, baseball games, whatever.
34:56
Or I have a friend who just took a job at Target and is making more than me,
35:00
you know. Yeah. Things like that. Absolutely. That's a good point.
35:04
So, Sammy. Sammy, right?
35:09
So what's going on in Gen Z world, Sammy? Sammy?
35:14
He's got to get used to it. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why I started calling
35:18
you Sam, but I understand now.
35:20
We had a whole discussion, by the way, before the podcast started about what to call Sammy.
35:26
Okay, so today, rather than spitting statistics and facts at you guys,
35:30
I'd rather pose a question that has been heavily debated amongst Gen Zs,
35:35
especially around election times or when there is a major humanitarian crisis.
35:42
So I think that TikTok and the internet in general has proven Gen Zs to be very
35:47
politically outspoken and demanding of transparency.
35:51
We like transparent, authentic.
35:54
But this question poses not necessarily how much transparency people are entitled to, but from whom.
36:02
So the question is, do celebrities, and I use this term loosely because TikTokers
36:07
with a couple million followers are deemed as celebrities now,
36:11
do they have an obligation to share their political views?
36:16
I think that everyone has an obligation to share their political views. Thank you.
36:22
I mean, I've never thought about it. I haven't, but part of me is like,
36:27
well, I mean, you've got a platform.
36:29
If you're a celebrity, then you have a platform that you can use,
36:33
Yeah. And I think that the reaction is always dependent on what party or what
36:39
side you're coming from.
36:40
Like if you say Ted Nugent, Kid Rock, say these things, you know,
36:45
in support of MAGA views or whatever, then the left is going to be like, shut up and play guitar.
36:52
But then if like LeBron James does it, they're like, shut up and play basketball.
36:57
You know, so I think that the outrage comes from your opponent no matter what you do.
37:02
But I do think that every, I honestly do think that everybody.
37:07
Because this is America, you know, this is our country, for now at least.
37:12
Like, it's. I guess, and this is generational, too, though, on the older end
37:17
of the Gen Xers and my parents, you know, boomers, I can remember there was
37:21
a time you didn't ask somebody who they voted for.
37:24
That was personal. And so there's still a piece of me that's like,
37:27
well, you know, technically, it's not your business.
37:30
Yeah. But I'm just me. I'm not, you know. I guess I could see that. I think, yeah, I don't.
37:36
I don't. Obligation is a weird word in that situation. I don't.
37:40
Well, it can be deemed as a moral or social obligation.
37:44
Yeah, I've seen people I liked better before I knew what stood for.
37:45
I mean, musicians, for instance, if they want to, fine.
37:51
Yeah. But if they don't, I don't know. I don't feel like they've got some kind of responsibility to.
37:55
They're musicians, and they want to focus on what they want to focus on.
37:58
They may not read a lot about politics, keep up with politics,
38:02
feel comfortable talking publicly about their personal political views.
38:08
I wouldn't feel comfortable talking about most other things.
38:12
We work in politics, so we talk about it all the time.
38:15
Yeah, I guess you're right. I guess maybe my statement was a little too blanketed.
38:20
But like, is that a word? I don't know.
38:23
But like, yeah, you're right. If you don't want to, you shouldn't have to.
38:28
Tell your views. But if you feel inclined, you should also not be shouted down for.
38:33
Oh, it's so, yeah, it's so ridiculous. You have the right to if you want to, I guess.
38:38
What do you think? I feel like everyone has the right to express their opinion.
38:44
However, if someone is speaking on something who is a celebrity based on their
38:51
audience telling them they should.
38:54
That's when misinformation gets spread and people may, exactly,
39:01
is seen more as performative.
39:03
I do think a lot of celebrities put their finger to the wind before they speak
39:09
out on things, you know, like they want to do what's popular.
39:11
So, but yeah, good question. Yeah, it was.
39:14
Yeah. That was just something that I think a lot about because I do spend a
39:18
lot of time on social media.
39:19
And I see people who will say, oh, you need to not follow and cancel these celebrities
39:25
because they refuse to speak on this huge humanitarian crisis that is happening.
39:31
And my response usually is, well, what if they don't know a lot about it?
39:35
It's not part of their industry. They're still people.
39:39
It doesn't necessarily have to do with their particular craft.
39:43
Why do they have to speak out on it?
39:46
Yeah, so straight from Gen Z, y'all, something to ponder. Yep.
39:51
I remember Michael Jordan's old saying on this, right? Republicans buy shoes, too. Oh, yeah.
39:58
Yeah, that's good. But no, that's a very broad question there, Sam. Good topic.
40:05
Before we go to the question of the week, I do want to do a little review of
40:10
last week's Girl Power podcast.
40:12
I have some grievances with you people, and now you're going to hear them.
40:15
With you people, you girls. Go ahead. No, that's from Seinfeld,
40:19
right? Dish it out, John.
40:21
No, I thought it was awesome. That's a great job by Sammy hosting.
40:24
She did kill it, yeah. She has such a much better voice than I do.
40:28
I feel like she should host at some point. I'll pass the reins over and I'll
40:33
sit on the couch with you guys.
40:35
Does that mean I get the swivel chair? Yeah, it's fun.
40:40
I did send y'all the text about the cake judging. I know that y'all brought
40:44
that up because I did judge a cake contest one time at the Lee County Fair.
40:49
And the judges get to eat that cake The question was What happens to the cake afterwards, right?
40:55
So they just like divvy out the cake to everyone It was a great day I was curious
41:00
Because I had told y'all One of my best friends She's a baker She won a blue
41:04
ribbon For one of the wedding cakes That she entered,
41:09
the competition for. And yeah, I was curious what happens to the cake.
41:13
I went and looked at the cakes at the fair that won and they were fabulous. Just so talented.
41:19
People are so talented in the state, honestly. It's amazing.
41:22
And you know how much I love Village of Yesteryear and places.
41:26
Oh, I was going to bring that up to my pottery minute.
41:30
My family from Blowing Rock has been in the Village of Yesteryear like 40 years.
41:37
Yeah. They always have the same booth there. So we always had to go to that place.
41:41
And it does have a special party. Are they there this year? Yeah. I didn't see. Okay.
41:46
Yeah. So. That's cool. So when I heard you mention, I was like,
41:50
wow, somebody else goes to the fridge. I love it there.
41:53
You know, I don't have artistic talent like that, but I appreciate it.
41:58
So I like to go and see what people have done.
42:01
I can really appreciate, even though I don't know how to do it,
42:04
I can tell that's impressive.
42:06
That's tough. And the Moravian cookies are in there too Yes they are Shout out
42:13
to Heritage Forge by the way Those guys go watch the Blacksmiths They're amazing
42:16
Oh yeah I always have A bit about our question of the week.
42:21
Because I know you had some comments on that Oh yeah that was it Well our question
42:26
of the week last week was Who would play you as a celebrity What celebrity would
42:29
play you in a movie Yeah so I wanted to give you mine Because you're not going to expect it But like,
42:36
Once upon a time, John was much skinnier and much more handsome.
42:40
And people said that I look like Matt Damon. Okay.
42:46
Okay, yeah. I can see that. In the face, right? I can see that. Yeah.
42:51
Picture me like many pounds lighter. But yes. I know. Listen, I feel you.
42:58
I mean, yeah, I feel you. And I think I told y'all, I think Sammy has always
43:03
reminded me of Billie Eilish in the face. Mm-hmm.
43:06
But I don't know if that's offensive to you or not, is it? No,
43:09
she is beautiful. I love her eyes.
43:12
And just amazing. Love her eyes. Amazing artist. Oh, my gosh.
43:15
She was in Raleigh for two days.
43:17
Apparently, the traffic wasn't too bad getting to her show.
43:20
Last year, it was horrendous trying to get to Sabrina Carpenter.
43:23
Traffic's bad going to anything in Raleigh, anytime. Well, it was also at State
43:27
Fair time. Oh, yeah. Right at Lenovo Center.
43:31
I am just lucky to have a brother who is an aggressive driver
43:34
and drove me and his girlfriend to that concert last year because god bless
43:39
the highway patrol that's out there trying to get everybody through that traffic
43:43
to the fair so john yes what's our question this week okay so the question of the week john's work we.
43:58
So as you know, I did do a lot of traveling last week.
44:01
My wife and I were able to get away from the children for the week and enjoy some time off.
44:07
We went to Miami and then went on a cruise.
44:10
And I learned a lot of stuff about myself.
44:14
It is you. Specifically on the travel part.
44:17
And I want to know, what is your biggest travel pet peeve? And I have like three
44:22
of them that I wanted to talk about.
44:24
I think it's a very important time for us to talk about this.
44:28
First off, no one ever waits for anybody to get off an elevator these days. Have you noticed this?
44:35
Like, just wait. Just sit there and, like, you push the button.
44:38
You want to go up, right? But let people off the elevator. Even like that at the legislature.
44:44
Yeah. You don't have to jump. There's no rush to get on the elevator.
44:47
It's not going anywhere. And they've got to get off before you can get on. Yeah.
44:50
That's my first one. second one kind of
44:53
the same idea when you're on a plane and people
44:57
get up at the end and like try to
45:00
pass you like we should do this by
45:03
aisle by row and you get your stuff
45:05
out of the thing and then you leave like why do people always try to pass you
45:09
i understand people who have a very quick connection okay we had that problem
45:13
you have a short connection i do understand that but that's also when you put
45:17
your bags like as soon as you get on the plane just find a spot and put your
45:20
bag up so that when it is your time to get off and get out of your row,
45:24
you can just walk forward and then grab your bag. Boom.
45:28
Keep going. So we had a delay, a long delay on our flight from Raleigh to Miami.
45:34
And I think it was maybe something to do with the TSA problems that are going on, the shutdown.
45:41
But, yeah, so when we got to Miami, people who were connecting,
45:45
they made an announcement to let those people off first. So I can understand
45:49
that. Like, those people got off.
45:50
People did take advantage of that, though. And they were like,
45:53
I got to get off, too. But you know they weren't going anywhere else.
45:56
You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's a big one. That one really is upsetting.
46:00
And then the third one is kind of a me problem.
46:02
But, like, people who get on those escalators that are flat and, like, don't move.
46:08
You mean the moving sidewalk? Yeah. Escalators that are flat?
46:12
I was like, what? I mean, that's what I used to call them.
46:15
I'm sorry. Oh, so they stand still on the moving. Well, you can do that,
46:19
but you have to stand to the right.
46:21
And then people can. No, they'll just, like, stand straight across.
46:24
And then. Take up the locket.
46:25
Like, we can't go anywhere else. Like, this is to make us walk,
46:28
like, twice as fast, right? Let's go.
46:31
I just don't get on those because I don't see the point of them.
46:34
They make you go faster. They do make you walk if you're able to walk.
46:38
I am a speed walker. But you'd be even faster.
46:42
So I'm just like, I don't need it. Just move. Like they get on it and act like it's a joyride.
46:47
Like there's a point to this thing. I think that's why I don't use them because
46:51
I usually see people who are just standing on it.
46:54
And I'm like, you would just be in my way. I can walk faster than you.
46:57
Move. No, all the people I saw were young, and they could still move.
47:01
Which brings me to a— John is increasingly becoming that man who yells at glass.
47:06
Exactly. That's why— You look young. Keep it moving. That's why my other option
47:09
for you guys is how do you know when you're getting old?
47:12
Because this is obviously how I know. Tell stories like that.
47:14
There were a bunch of young people. They were perfectly able-bodied.
47:17
I hate to say it, Sam, but most of these pet peeves involve young folk who are trying to get ahead.
47:23
These kids these days, they just don't respect the rules of travel.
47:27
Y'all have any pet peeves? I do. Okay, what's that? Slow walkers,
47:31
in general. Get out of my way.
47:33
As someone who's been to New York multiple times and walks around like she lives there,
47:40
if you're going slow and you're in my way, I will turn in to a New Yorker and
47:48
unironically say, I am walking here.
47:51
Yeah, that's why I'll stay to the right, because I'm not going fast and you're
47:56
not going to push me. Oh, I was so mad.
47:59
We went to Broadway at the end of the night, and we were going to go to a nice
48:02
little speakeasy in the Broadway area because we thought it would be cool.
48:08
By the time we were done with that show, though, I was so irritated with all
48:12
the people walking slow in Times Square that I said, let's just get back to
48:16
the Flower District now. I want to get out of here. I'm done.
48:19
So, Artis, you just took a trip, international trip, right, to Scotland.
48:25
Well, yeah, I went to Scotland. So did you encounter any pet peeves on the way? No, heck no. It's bliss.
48:32
I don't even care the pet peeves I encounter on the way there because Scotland
48:36
wants to get there. Your pet peeve is coming home. Yeah, pretty much.
48:41
Anything from you, Suzanne? Well, I mean, I am not an international traveler.
48:45
But you know, we did a lot of— You've got to go. You've got to go to Scotland
48:47
specifically. Well, I mean, you know, I have some things that I think about.
48:51
It just doesn't fit in my life right now.
48:53
You know, grandchildren, I have a very full life right now. but just travel
48:57
like here in North Carolina we've done a lot of that Brian and I used to ride motorcycles,
49:02
And so this is more of a personal pet peeve. Get up at four o'clock in the morning
49:06
to make a three-hour trip up to wherever you're staying that you can't get into
49:10
being hurried when it's not necessary.
49:13
Like because you can't check into hotels.
49:15
Yeah, so why are we in a hurry to get picked up and leave this early?
49:20
You know, take your time and make that part of the trip also pleasant.
49:24
That is a great one because this also happened to me.
49:29
My wife wanted to get we had to get to the airport
49:31
like two hours early and have you seen the things on tiktok
49:35
where it's like can you get the airport rule yeah it's like can you get to your
49:39
gate in 15 minutes like by arriving in 15 minutes or 40 minutes we got to the
49:45
airport at like 6 a.m for an 8 a.m flight and the flight didn't take off until
49:49
like 9 4 we sat in this airport for like And luckily,
49:53
RDU is a nice airport because we also had to do that in Miami.
49:57
And it's not so much. I mean, it's a nice airport, but it's just huge, you know.
50:02
Yeah. I'm going to be flying solo a little bit in the beginning of 2026.
50:07
So I got to prepare for that stuff.
50:10
I'm flying to Hawaii for a concert in March.
50:14
And I am flying to Orlando, Florida for the exact same band.
50:21
That's a wonderful thing. You've traveled more at your age than most people
50:24
have because you're prioritizing that. Yeah. That's good.
50:28
But I did tell her that she is like venturing into groupie.
50:31
Yeah, because I'm going to the exact same band in Orlando that I'm going to
50:34
see in Hawaii. Oh, you are like a groupie.
50:37
What do they call the Grateful Dead? Oh, yeah. Deadheads. I'm a rusher.
50:41
It's big time rush and we are called rushers. She's a rusher, y'all.
50:45
Speaking of your party life, you're probably the only one in here that is dressing
50:49
up for Halloween. So let's ask that question. What are you going to be for Halloween?
50:52
I'm going to be Barney Stinson from How I Met Your Mother.
50:55
I'm going to buy a ducky tie and wear like a skirt and a button up shirt.
51:01
Because there is an episode in How I Met Your Mother where, Because Barney Stinson
51:06
always wears a suit, always wears a suit.
51:09
And him and one of his best friends in the show find this tie,
51:12
and they call it the ducky tie.
51:14
It's the most atrocious-looking tie ever in their eyes.
51:18
Bright blue tie with duckies all over it. And he loses a bet and has to wear
51:22
the ducky tie for, I think, a year unless something happens.
51:28
He's the guy that played Doogie Howser. Yeah, Neil Patrick Harris.
51:31
Yeah. So I will be Barney Stinson wearing a ducky tie.
51:35
All right. I'm excited. What about you, Artis? What are you going to be? What about you?
51:39
There's any variety of... You want to be an executive? Gary, yeah.
51:45
Yeah, there was a King of the Hill episode years ago where one of the neighbors
51:50
on the street, Hank Hill, lived on, dressed up and said, I'm a high-powered
51:55
Washington lobbyist peddling influence. That's what I'm going to be.
51:59
All I can think of when I think of King of the Hill is, that's my purse.
52:05
Don't be afraid to shout it.
52:08
That's my purse. I don't know you. Love King of the Hill.
52:13
I'm not dressing up. Are you dressing up? Nah. No.
52:16
I mean, I would. You know, maybe at some point I will be. You know,
52:20
those grandchildren kind of rule my life.
52:22
You should do like a group costume with them. Yeah, because they do.
52:26
They do. They're so cute. They do a family. Like last year, I think it was Bluey.
52:31
Oh, yeah. Bluey. Some of y'all are familiar with that. So they were the Bluey
52:34
fam. We did Flintstones one time with Claire. Yeah.
52:37
So I'm not this year. And we live on a really busy road. I don't live like in
52:40
a neighborhood, so I don't even get trick-or-treaters. We don't get trick-or-treaters either.
52:43
I may be single and live alone, but I do know what Bluey is as a full-grown adult.
52:49
Partially because I found it interesting that Bluey is in all colors that dogs can see.
52:56
So sometimes I will turn it on for my dog and he'll actually look at the TV
53:00
and just be like, oh, I see those colors. That's a big thing people are doing, actually.
53:04
Yeah. Oh, okay. Before we go, I have a cat video, a video of like a cartoon
53:10
mouse going around the screen. My cat loves it.
53:15
Have a great week, guys.
53:18
Goodness. Bye, y'all.