Latest / What's on Your Riste? A Watch Podcast / S01E16: Japan, Part 1 of 2: The Country That Quietly Won the Engineering War (Seiko, Grand Seiko, Citizen and Casio)
Transcript
- 0:00The year is 1967, the place is Nushkatel, Switzerland.
- 0:04The occasion is the Nushkatel Observatory Chronometer
- 0:08competition, the most prestigious timing competition
- 0:11or the contest in the watch world and running basically
- 0:14since the mid 1800s. Every year the finest
- 0:17watchmakers in Switzerland, Omega Long, Jean, Gerard,
- 0:21Perrigo, Zenith. They send their best movements
- 0:24to be tested and then measured against one another ranked.
- 0:28Their best movements will come in obviously 1st 1964 Seiko
- 0:32entered for the first time and their best movement finished
- 0:36144th. 144th, not so great. Then a year later, 1965, their
- 0:43best movement finished 114th. Hey, we're moving in the right
- 0:47direction, but it's not good enough for our brothers over in
- 0:50Japan. 1966, just a year later, from 114th, 9th, I think you see
- 0:57the trend here. And in 1967, a movement from
- 1:01Seikos, a factory in Tokyo, finished fourth, the highest
- 1:05placed mechanical wristwatch movement in the entire
- 1:08competition. The movement rankings, the
- 1:10manufacturers, all the manufacturers, all the
- 1:13countries. Seiko finished second.
- 1:15The year after that, Seiko entered the Geneva Observatory
- 1:18competition and their movements swept positions four through 10
- 1:24in the mechanical wristwatch category.
- 1:25Seiko was first because their top three positions went to
- 1:29Swiss quartz movements, and Seiko's mechanical watches were
- 1:33the most precise mechanical watches in the world.
- 1:36Did you catch that? The reason that the Swiss ones
- 1:38won is because they had submitted quartz and Seiko only
- 1:42lost out to the quartz movement. Seiko's mechanical watches were
- 1:46again the most precise mechanical watches in the world.
- 1:49And then in 1968, the Geneva Observatory Tory, they cancelled
- 1:53the wristwatch competition altogether.
- 1:55We don't want you guys to play anymore.
- 1:56And in 1972, this Swiss watch industry, these executives went
- 2:02to see the Canton of Mooshkatel's industry minister.
- 2:06They demanded the trials be ended, the minister reported.
- 2:10Apparently, they told them the point of the competition was for
- 2:14the best to win. The Swiss threatened to boycott
- 2:19Neuschkatel. Trials were suspended.
- 2:21And guess what? They were never revived.
- 2:23And when the competition was finally restarted, you know,
- 2:26decades later, the new rules required that all movement parts
- 2:29be made in Europe. Switzerland won the marketing
- 2:36war, but Japan won the engineering war.
- 2:39So today we're going to talk about why that might matter
- 2:43more. Look where the cedar leans.
- 3:02The layers keep turning slow. Small rooms, sharp hands, one
- 3:09loop 1 steady. Welcome back to What's on Your
- 3:12Rest Day? I'm Wachovsky.
- 3:14We've been through a run through Non Swiss Watch world for a
- 3:19couple of episodes now. We went to Tool watches, we went
- 3:22to American watchmakers. We were in Germany even for a
- 3:26little bit today. We're going to go somewhere that
- 3:28we should have been in this conversation much earlier, and
- 3:31I'll take the blame for that. I get so excited about brands
- 3:34and sometimes I have other ones that I just assume everybody is
- 3:37sort of on board with. And you know, then I, I realized
- 3:39that maybe we're not. So this is kind of a two-part
- 3:42episode. Part 1 today is I'm going to
- 3:44call these guys the heavy hitters, the brands that most
- 3:46western enthusiasts are somewhat aware of, but probably don't
- 3:50maybe not fully understand. And then Part 2 is the next
- 3:53episode where to get into the Japanese Indies because again,
- 3:56this is a niche show and you can't get much more niche than
- 3:59super niche. So the Japanese Indies is we're
- 4:01going to go after that. Now the makers of what I would
- 4:04say is almost nobody outside the hobby knows about who are doing
- 4:08work that rival the best work in Geneva, Lilac and so on.
- 4:12So settle in, we're going to go East this time.
- 4:15Segment 1, the thesis, Japan and the engineering war.
- 4:19Now, before I get into this, I want to say hello and what's up
- 4:22to the listeners out in Japan? I, I saw my data and, and some
- 4:28of the analytics that are coming back from this podcast.
- 4:30And again, now we're on multiple platforms.
- 4:32We're on Spotify, we're on Amazon, we're on YouTube, we're
- 4:36on what were the other ones? iHeartRadio, a couple of other
- 4:40ones. So I'm just, I'm just really on
- 4:42Apple podcast. And so I'm just really excited.
- 4:44And whatever platform you're listening to, thank you for
- 4:47doing that. And then also thank you for
- 4:48giving it a thumbs up or liking it or sharing it.
- 4:50And then also thank you for subscribing.
- 4:52That actually means a lot when you get those notifications that
- 4:54the the podcast is, you know, there's a new episode or
- 4:58whatever. Give me a heads up.
- 4:59I just, I really appreciate it and thanks for the feedback too.
- 5:01So let's get into Japan. And again, brothers and sisters
- 5:03out in Japan. I'm just saying hello from
- 5:05Southern California. So again, before I get into the
- 5:08brands, I want to establish this argument because I think this is
- 5:11an episode with a real thesis, or at least I think it is in my
- 5:14head. The watch world runs on a
- 5:16particular story and it goes kind of something like this.
- 5:19Switzerland is where watchmaking was affected.
- 5:22Switzerland is the land of hot horology.
- 5:24Switzerland is the place where serious watches are going to
- 5:28come from. Japan makes affordable,
- 5:30reliable, competent watches. But they're just, you know, a
- 5:34category below Switzerland. Can you catch the sarcasm in my
- 5:37voice here? You know, they're a useful
- 5:39alternative for people who can't afford the Swiss standard.
- 5:42And that story is at best incomplete.
- 5:45At worst, it's the version of history that people who control
- 5:49watchmaking's marketing budget choose to tell.
- 5:52And sometimes they have the biggest megaphone.
- 5:54And then some people on Reddit believe it.
- 5:56Here's the other version. Japan has over the past 60 years
- 5:59matched or exceeded Switzerland in virtually every single
- 6:02measure, every single objective measure of watchmaking Precision
- 6:06in house, movement development, material science, surface
- 6:10finishing, movement, architecture, volume, production
- 6:13quality at scale. And yet quietly, like in a room
- 6:16A2 room, you know, workshop in the mountains of Nagano, for
- 6:19example, Japan has produced something that completes our
- 6:23competes directly with Philippe Dufour and Protect Philippe for
- 6:27the title of the finest finishing in the world.
- 6:29And Japan did this with almost no coverage in the Western watch
- 6:33press until relatively recently with almost no boutique presence
- 6:37outside of Japan. Well, again, until recently,
- 6:39with almost no global marketing budget compared to the Swiss
- 6:42luxury groups, the Swiss won the marketing war.
- 6:45I completely I will give them that.
- 6:47But I think and I'm going to make the argument Japan has won
- 6:50the engineering war. And if you want to totally
- 6:52understand this hobby at full depth, I think we have to
- 6:55understand and appreciate what's going on in Japan.
- 6:57Segment 2 we're going to talk about Seiko, the foundation of
- 7:00really everything. So let's, let's start at the
- 7:02foundation Seiko Seiko, founded in 1881 by and I believe the the
- 7:07proper pronunciation of this. And I'm going to screw it up
- 7:09like I always do if I don't, if I don't offend at least someone
- 7:13in a country by butchering languages, I haven't done my job
- 7:16correctly. Quintaro Hattori, I hope that's
- 7:19right in Tokyo. He's 21 years old and he opened
- 7:21a clock and watch workshop and then he started manufacturing
- 7:25again, all these 20 year olds, right?
- 7:27The company grew steadily for like a century, became one of
- 7:30the largest watchmakers obviously in the world.
- 7:32And Seiko today is not just one company.
- 7:34It's this umbrella over several entities, some of which you
- 7:37probably recognize and some of you probably wouldn't recognize.
- 7:40Some of these and the Seiko Watch Corporation markets
- 7:43watches and specifically Seiko Epson, which is based in a
- 7:48smaller kind of subset of Nagano.
- 7:51We manufacture movements components, particularly the
- 7:53Spring Drive and Seiko Instruments handles mechanical
- 7:57watch assembly. The Seiko family includes Grand
- 8:00Seiko, Crador Prospects Passage and kind of the legacy King
- 8:04Seiko and Seiko 5 lines. And that's kind of a large and
- 8:07somewhat confusing ecosystem. And we're going to walk through
- 8:10kind of parts of that and when I think that it's going to kind of
- 8:13make sense. And what Seiko did, what their
- 8:16core contribution to watchmaking is, I think comes down to really
- 8:19two things. First, they democratize this
- 8:22precision, the Seiko 5 lineup, their affordable automatic
- 8:26watches at a very accessible price.
- 8:28They're sold globally. They, you know, they're still
- 8:31running reliably decades after manufacturer.
- 8:34And it's kind of one of the most important families, I think in
- 8:37watchmaking history. And they made mechanical watches
- 8:40available to people who would otherwise never have owned one.
- 8:43And that matters. It matters for the hobby and it
- 8:45matters for the craft. The SKX, for example, which is,
- 8:49you know, we've talked about this in the tool watch episode.
- 8:51It's the kind of the spiritual descendant of this tradition.
- 8:55Now second, they made some of the most technically ambitious
- 8:58movements in history on their own in house with no Swiss
- 9:02assistance. The high beat movements that won
- 9:05the observatory trials that quartz Astron, for example, the
- 9:08world's first quartz wristwatch in 1969, the spring drive like
- 9:12the nine SA 5, the high beat mechanical and even if you're
- 9:16going to go if you look at like the caliber 0100 through citizen
- 9:21they're again they're competitor and sometimes though they're
- 9:24collaborator. Japan built all of this now for
- 9:27listeners who want a single entry point to Seiko beyond the
- 9:31SKX, the Seiko passage line is I think where the brand's
- 9:35thoughtful approach to design and Japanese aesthetics.
- 9:38It really shows up at this very accessible price.
- 9:41Think like enamel dials and cocktail time dials, but also
- 9:45lacquer work. The Seiko 5 sports is kind of
- 9:48like every man's gateway and I think the prospects is, you
- 9:50know, we covered that in the tool watch episode.
- 9:52So but then get those are those are the gateway, the places, you
- 9:56know, where this episode I think is going to go much further.
- 9:59So let's get into segment 3. I call this the Grand Seiko
- 10:02section, the rebellion that became a legend in 1960, the
- 10:06Seikos Suwa factory. They made a decision.
- 10:09They would create a watch that did not compromise, a watch that
- 10:13met or exceeded the standard of accuracy, finishing reliability
- 10:17that could be applied to a wristwatch, and they called it
- 10:19Grand Seiko. The original Grand Seiko, a
- 10:22caliber 3180, debuted in 1960 with this set of international
- 10:27standards that they called the Grand Seiko standards.
- 10:30These were way more demanding than your cost certification
- 10:34requirements. They required greater accuracy
- 10:36across a wider temperature range, better reliability, a
- 10:40specific level of water resistance, a specific case
- 10:43finishing quality, and every single Grand Seiko had to be
- 10:46signed off internally before it could leave the factory.
- 10:49This wasn't like some luxury positioning move.
- 10:52It was an engineering manifesto. And again, you know that I like
- 10:55questions and I like answers. And the question that Grand
- 10:58Seiko and the folks in in at Seiko were asking were what can
- 11:01we do that's better? How can we make it better?
- 11:04And from 1960 to 1967, Seiko's two factories, the Suwa Nagano
- 11:09and the Danny in Tokyo, they developed the high beat
- 11:12movements. They were running at 36,000
- 11:14vibrations per hour and high beat movements are more accurate
- 11:18because they have a faster balance wheel, which is more
- 11:20resistant to these positional errors.
- 11:22And they submitted these movements.
- 11:24And again in Noush Katel and they went from 144th to 4th from
- 11:291964 to 1967. And we told that story in kind
- 11:32of the open because I think it's significant.
- 11:35We came out of those observatories.
- 11:36And what came out of those observatories is this
- 11:39technological feedback back from this competition that went
- 11:41directly into Grand Seiko's movements.
- 11:43And then in the late 1970s, something remarkable happened.
- 11:47A young engineer at Seiko's SUA factory.
- 11:50If she, I think it's a Yo Yoshikazu and was his first
- 11:55name, and then I believe the last name is Akai Haine Akai
- 11:59Haine Yoshikazu Akai. And if my, my Japanese brothers
- 12:02and sisters are out there, correct me.
- 12:04He had an idea, though, This dude, he wanted to make a watch
- 12:07that was as precise as quartz, but powered entirely by a
- 12:11mainspring. So not a battery and not a solar
- 12:13cell, a mainspring that winded itself on the wearer's wrist.
- 12:17And we, we know what that is. We have watches with rotors and
- 12:20we under, we know exactly what that means.
- 12:21And so the inspiration for the mechanism came from this really
- 12:25unlikely place. He watched a bicycle that was
- 12:27descending a hill at constant speed, but it was using brakes
- 12:31and the braking principle applying force to this
- 12:34controlled rate of something powered by gravity.
- 12:37It gave him this idea kind of a light bulb or not.
- 12:39What if there was a tiny electromagnetic brake that
- 12:42control the rate of a glide wheel driven by a mainspring?
- 12:46And if that brake was governed by a quartz oscillator, the
- 12:51result would be a movement that generated its own power, but it
- 12:54kept quartz accuracy, and now you don't have any batteries and
- 12:57no compromises. And so this dude started working
- 13:00on this thing at 19, 77. And in 1982, his team had a
- 13:05working prototype. It ran for four hours, but that
- 13:07wasn't enough. The integrated circuit
- 13:09technology that would make it run longer hadn't been invented
- 13:13yet. And so the project got shelved.
- 13:15And in 1993, the circuit, the integrated circuit technology
- 13:19finally caught up to this idea. And then they restarted it
- 13:22again. So in 1997, they were given this
- 13:24this leadership over this entire watch division to put Spring
- 13:28Drive on kind of the front burner, as in we have the
- 13:31technology, it's caught up, let's restart this project.
- 13:33And so in 1998, Seiko presented a working Spring Dr. model at
- 13:38the Basel watch fair in the world and specifically the watch
- 13:42world started to pay attention. And then in 1998, at the age of
- 13:4552, before Spring Drive ever reached the market, he passed
- 13:50away. He didn't live to see it.
- 13:52The movement that he conceived in 1977 that he worked on for
- 13:56more than two decades. And finally, this opportunity
- 14:01that he wanted to see his work come to fruition, he never saw
- 14:04it on anyone's wrist. The first spring Dr. watches
- 14:07went on sale in Japan in December of 1999, fourteen
- 14:10months after his passing. The spring Dr. had a glide wheel
- 14:14instead of a balance and escapement, and the glide wheel
- 14:17rotates 8 times per second, powers a reference quartz
- 14:21oscillator and the oscillator's signal continuously applies a
- 14:25variable electromagnetic brake to the glide wheel to maintain
- 14:29contain this exact rate. And the result is gorgeous
- 14:33Result is the second hand that does not tick.
- 14:36It doesn't beat. It glides continuously, smoothly
- 14:41and completely silently. If you were to put this watch a
- 14:44spring drive on your time grapher, your time grapher would
- 14:47not read it because there is no TikTok.
- 14:50And this was in a way it was so smooth and so silent that in a
- 14:52way that it had this, there was like no purely mechanical watch
- 14:56that could replicate this. No mechanical escapement can
- 14:59release the seconds hand in a perfectly continuous motion in a
- 15:03perfectly continuous flow. Only spring Dr. does this.
- 15:06Now some watches can trick your eyes into making it look like
- 15:10it's gliding right. A 36,000 oscillations for
- 15:13example, and A and a high beat movement like what you'll find
- 15:16in a zenith for example, or even some of the Grand Seikos that
- 15:18hive high beat. If you're watching it with your
- 15:20eyes, it does look like it's moving.
- 15:22But if you record it or you put your phone on it and you put on
- 15:25slow motion, you will see it ticking.
- 15:27The Grand Seiko will not do that.
- 15:29It will glide. And so this accuracy, it was ±15
- 15:33seconds per month on these standard calibers and it was ±10
- 15:38seconds per month on the higher spec versions.
- 15:40And then you get ±1 second per day on the very finest of the
- 15:45Micro Artist Studios models. And this is, this is crazy.
- 15:49So the for context cost certifies a mechanical watch and
- 15:53they give it a certificate if it's within ±4 seconds per day.
- 15:58So standard Spring Drive is four times more accurate than a
- 16:01certified Swiss chronometer. In the first Grand Seiko Spring
- 16:04Drive, again, the caliber 9R65 automatic had a 72 hour power
- 16:08reserve and it launched in 2004. Think about how long it took for
- 16:12the rest of the industry to get catch up to even, you know, over
- 16:1650 hours of power reserve And they were already at 70 and that
- 16:18was 22,000 and four. And from there, Grand Seiko
- 16:21developed Spring Drive into one of the richest movement families
- 16:25in modern watchmaking. Now Spring Drive is only one
- 16:28part of the Grand Seiko story. The other other part are the
- 16:30dials. Grand Seiko dials are made by
- 16:32hand in two factories in or in two facilities in Japan's
- 16:36mountainous regions and the Shinchu Watch Studio in Nagano.
- 16:40And then there's also the Watch Studio in Iwate.
- 16:44And they're inspired by these nature scapes, natural
- 16:48landscapes. And I think people who know
- 16:49Grand Seiko know this. The textures, the dials, the
- 16:52colors, the patterns that grand Seiko dials have, they're not
- 16:56printed. They're formed through kind of a
- 16:59material material process. Typically they're hand
- 17:02lacquered. The snowflake textures, for
- 17:03example, they're achieved by pressing and then color
- 17:06variations and gradations and finishing.
- 17:09And the most famous one is obviously the note, the
- 17:11snowflake. Most folks know this.
- 17:13The reference of the most recent models is the SBGA 211.
- 17:18It's a white textured spring Dr. Dial, whose surface was created
- 17:22by pressing this special resin to achieve a texture that
- 17:26replicates irregularity, which is ironic.
- 17:29There's this layered surface that basically makes it look
- 17:31like freshly fall and snow. And when you look at it a
- 17:33different light, it changes. Under direct light, it's almost
- 17:36pure white and its shadows kind of can deepen it.
- 17:40But then under a loop, every section of the surface, you
- 17:43start to notice that there's something very unique about
- 17:45this. And I think that's what's
- 17:46gorgeous about these dials is that I think a lot of folks will
- 17:49go well, everything is about perfection.
- 17:50Specifically when you look at the case and the polishing and
- 17:53everything is so perfect and then you have this dial that is
- 17:56perfectly imperfect and it's just it is it is a sight to see.
- 18:00And that is what this is what Grand Seiko is about, right?
- 18:03That when we talk about Grand Seiko, the Grand Seiko, the
- 18:06snowflake itself has become, I think one of the most recognized
- 18:08watch styles in modern horology, not because Grand Seiko marketed
- 18:13it hard. They they didn't because people
- 18:15who saw it in person came back and could not stop talking about
- 18:18it. And this is what Grand Seiko is.
- 18:20It's an observatory grade level of precision and ambition and
- 18:25it's applied to watches that just happened to look like these
- 18:27Japanese mountain escapes and they're they're stunning.
- 18:30Now the current mechanical caliber known as the nine SA 5
- 18:34grand Sego's most recent high beat automatic has a dual
- 18:37impulse escapement and it delivers power way more
- 18:40efficiently than a traditional Swiss lever escapement ever
- 18:43could has 80 hours of power again, 36,000 vibrations per
- 18:47hour. They're available in the
- 18:48Heritage collection and they're around 5000 to 6000 bucks at the
- 18:52time of this recording for steel pieces.
- 18:54And obviously they're considerably more for titanium
- 18:56and gold and limited, limited editions.
- 18:58But you're talking anywhere of, you know, a third to half of
- 19:01what is being offered from other manufacturers that you're not
- 19:04getting as accurate or as well finished watches, dials,
- 19:09movements, etcetera. Now segment 4, we're going to
- 19:10talk about Credor Credor and I would say that this is Japan's
- 19:14secret apex. Now I want to tell you about a
- 19:17brand that you you may not have heard of, even if you consider
- 19:20yourself a fairly watched serious enthusiast, even if you
- 19:23follow the industry closely. Now you're going to hear Credo
- 19:26and you're going to hear Credo. It's, again, this is ironic
- 19:30because the word credo, I believe, comes from French, as
- 19:33in like credo, it's the Crest of gold.
- 19:36So Credo is Seiko's Hot Horology subsidiary.
- 19:39They're founded in 1974. And specifically, they were made
- 19:42to compete with Switzerland's highest level of luxury
- 19:45watchmaking. And they have mechanical and
- 19:48quartz pieces, pieces in precious metals.
- 19:50They're available almost exclusively in Japan and that's
- 19:54changing now more recently, but it's still you're typically if
- 19:57you're on Cornell 24 you're you're put picking something up
- 19:59from Japan and they're at select retail locations, but they're
- 20:02extremely limited quality quantities.
- 20:04Ecuador is made specifically in micro artist studios.
- 20:08Their two room workshops in Seiko's Epson's facility and I
- 20:12believe the the city is pronounced Shiojiri.
- 20:16See Shiojiri 3 man, I'm a mess. There's a small town in the
- 20:21mountains of Nagano. And the studio was established
- 20:24in around the year 2000 and it has 10 people, watchmakers and
- 20:28engineers. And together they produce
- 20:30between 30 and 40 watches per year, like total across
- 20:34everything that they make. Sounds a lot like hot horology,
- 20:36doesn't it? Now the models at the Micro
- 20:38Artist Studios make the creator Ichi 2 and at their you know,
- 20:43the time, they're kind of, you know, time only dress watch.
- 20:45They also have a minute repeater.
- 20:47They have the sun are they have a they have an 8 day, which uses
- 20:51kind of the same workshop that is using kind of the 9 RO one
- 20:55there, but they have triple barrels and eight days of power
- 20:58reserve. And let me tell you kind of how
- 20:59the micro auditors studios how they kind of came into a current
- 21:02form. This is part of the story that I
- 21:04want you to kind of hold on to. OK, I'm going to mess up some
- 21:07stuff in here. I got I have tons of notes and
- 21:09I'm still going to, I'm going to still mess up pronunciation, but
- 21:12I'll do my best. When the studio was established
- 21:14in 2000, the team's founding director, it's Kenji Shio Hara.
- 21:21Kenji Shio Hara. That's that's pretty close.
- 21:24He made a trip to Switzerland specifically, he went to the
- 21:26workshop of Philippe before, and that's the same Philippe before
- 21:29that we've discussed multiple times in the show.
- 21:30So arguably, again, one of the greatest watchmakers, living
- 21:33watchmakers on the planet, and the man whose simplicity, the
- 21:36watch simplicity, set the benchmark for what is considered
- 21:39fine finishing in this modern era.
- 21:40So he went to learn and guess what Dufour showed him
- 21:44specifically, He showed him how he polishes the beveled edges of
- 21:48his movement bridges, what is considered anglage.
- 21:51And he used a piece of dried wood.
- 21:53And the wood is gentian and it's a flowering plant and it's found
- 21:59in the Alpine regions of Switzerland.
- 22:01And they take them and they dry stalks that are soft enough to
- 22:05Polish so that these dried stalks, they they become soft
- 22:08enough to Polish steel surfaces basically to a mirror finish.
- 22:11But they don't scratch and they hold a shape for a precise
- 22:16englage work. And so they can cut them and
- 22:17shape them basically these tiny little pieces of wood that
- 22:20they're using to, to to Polish. And so he went back to Japan
- 22:25with these samples of wood. But that is an Alpine plant, and
- 22:30it doesn't grow in Japan. And the team was basically
- 22:33dependent on Swiss imports for a material that was really central
- 22:37to their finishing method. And something happened.
- 22:39They found one more piece of Japan to use.
- 22:42So a university in, I believe it's Hokia.
- 22:47Hokkido. Hokkido.
- 22:49I'm going to say Hokkido. It's H OK KAIOAIDO.
- 22:53And they were cultivating this plant for medical research and a
- 22:58micro artist studio struck a deal with the university and the
- 23:03the Hokiado Jensen became this polishing wood for the Kredor
- 23:08Ichi. Now the result is basically what
- 23:11they would consider this polishing technique that they
- 23:14learned from Dufour, but is executed with Japanese wood on
- 23:18Japanese movements. And that means that they can get
- 23:20the Anglage on the Kredor Ichi 2, which is basically this
- 23:25Japanese technique in every practical sense, even though
- 23:28it's originally Swiss in in origin.
- 23:31And what this means, it's the cultural exchange of hot
- 23:33horology. The same way the Swiss
- 23:36watchmakers learned American production techniques in the
- 23:3919th century and then took them over to Switzerland, The
- 23:42Japanese watch made occurs. They studied Swiss precision in
- 23:46the 20th century and then the craft moves and where it lands
- 23:50and it became the place where again, they're doing it now.
- 23:53So Dufour himself has spoken out about the Credor Ichi 2.
- 23:57He pronounces it very pure when he talks about his the finishing
- 24:02and coming from Phillipe 2 four, that's not like a casual
- 24:04compliment. The Credor Ichi 2, it's 39mm,
- 24:07it's a platinum case. It's a porcelain dial.
- 24:09They're hand painted by a single Craftsman who's trained 3 years
- 24:13specifically in ceramics. The caliber is the 7R1 four.
- 24:17It's a spring Dr. movement with this torque recovery system that
- 24:20redirects excessive mainspring torque back to the barrel and it
- 24:24extends the power reserves like it's it's it's sort of like
- 24:27regenerating itself. And the power reserve is 60
- 24:29hours now and the movement bridges are arranged to
- 24:32represent the regions of the area.
- 24:35And the central barrel is decorated with this Bellflower,
- 24:38which is a symbol of the city. So between 20 and 25 corridor
- 24:42Ichi 2 watches leave the studio per year and the price is
- 24:45approximately $50,000 for a platinum example.
- 24:49Now most of you again probably will never own one, but I want
- 24:52you to know that it exists. There's also the baby Ichi
- 24:55that's again another, we can go on a different tangent on a
- 24:58different time, but it's a much more accessible price range
- 25:01under typically $10,000. You can find those they're
- 25:04printed dials. But again, everything else is
- 25:06pretty, pretty remarkable to look at.
- 25:08Now again, most of us are probably never going to own the
- 25:11Ichi 2. But again, we want we want to
- 25:13talk about them. We want to know that they exist.
- 25:15Because when someone tells you that Japanese watchmaking is
- 25:17like this budget alternative to Swiss watchmaking, the Ichi 2 is
- 25:21the watch that you can describe to them and go seriously, now
- 25:24this is what a Japan can do. I think at the apex in the
- 25:28mountains with 10 people with specific wood that was coming
- 25:31from like a University Hospital research program project, right.
- 25:35And now let's talk about Citizens.
- 25:36Citizens, this estimated giant brand 4 is, I think it's a tonal
- 25:40shift and it's away from these mountain studios and back to
- 25:43kind of the industrial scale Citizen watch company.
- 25:46They were founded in 1918 and the name comes from 1924 when
- 25:49they released her their first pocket watch named and they just
- 25:53named it Citizen. This kind of explicit ambition
- 25:56that it would be a watch for everyone, right?
- 25:58Kind of the idea of a Volkswagen, right?
- 26:00The people's car, right? The idea of Citizen making
- 26:03meaning that this watch is literally for everyone, for all
- 26:06citizens. Citizen is by several measures
- 26:09it's the most important watch company and by a ton of measures
- 26:13in the world, they makeover 1,000,000 watches per year.
- 26:16They own Bulaba Fredri Constant. They own Alpena, Arnold and son
- 26:21and making them quietly one of the largest watch groups
- 26:25anywhere in global horology. But the thing that I want you to
- 26:28understand about citizen is their commitment to precision.
- 26:32Their flagship achievement I would say is the caliber 0100.
- 26:36It's an eco drive solar movement.
- 26:37It's accurate to plus or one seconds per year, one second per
- 26:41year without an external signal. No GPS, no radio tower, no
- 26:46atomic clock connections, just purely internal from the watch.
- 26:50The movement achieves this by using a proprietary like an AT
- 26:54cut quartz crystal oscillator. And they'd normally find this in
- 26:57like precision instruments, like computers, more things that are
- 26:59like temperature controlled compensation.
- 27:01So the oscillator at like they they oscillate typically twice
- 27:05the frequency of a standard movement, which is insane
- 27:08because they're already oscillating super quickly.
- 27:09The result is again, the most accurate autonomous wristwatch
- 27:13movement that was ever made and in all of the history of
- 27:17watchmaking. Again, one second per year for a
- 27:20watch that's not connected to the Internet.
- 27:22The caliber 0100 is available in kind of what they would consider
- 27:25the Citizen series. It's a platinum or a premium
- 27:28line in the citizen range and they feature super titanium
- 27:32cases, sapphire crystals, their hand finished dials and the
- 27:36prices start wait for the price price 3 grand for standard
- 27:40references, 3 grand for the most accurate watch that you can get
- 27:43stand alone watch on the planet. And so citizens broader
- 27:46contribution again is the ecodrive.
- 27:47Now the prices may have gone up a bit from the recording, so
- 27:50don't quote me on that. The again, the ecodrive
- 27:52technology itself, solar charging that converts light and
- 27:56really any light indoor light electric, you know it's going to
- 27:59it could be incandescent, it could be LED lighting and lights
- 28:02from your through a window. It's going to charge up the
- 28:05battery that's that's on board. And so again, and it it doesn't
- 28:08need a battery. Citizens been developing this
- 28:10project and this technology since the 70s and they've
- 28:13produced over a billion with AB billion eco drive movements.
- 28:18The technology underlies everything from their entry
- 28:20level pro master that we discussed in the tool watch
- 28:23episodes all the way up to the caliber 0100.
- 28:27And the other citizen line that we is worth knowing is the
- 28:31series 8. And a buddy of mine has the
- 28:33Serie has a series 8 in his collection in art and our text
- 28:37group and I'm pretty jealous of this watch.
- 28:39And the series 8 is their attempt at a serious mechanical
- 28:42automatic watch and it competes I think aesthetically with Swiss
- 28:46mid tiers. It's been received with mixed
- 28:48enthusiasm and this is I think part of it is the again, it
- 28:52represents citizens recognition to some collectors that they
- 28:55want this traditional mechanical watch from Japan, not just like
- 28:59solar tech. Now, citizen is not the most
- 29:02glamorous brand in this episode. They're not Grand Seiko and
- 29:07they're not credor, but they are a company that has made the most
- 29:10accurate autonomous watches in history.
- 29:13And they deserve to be said and brought up in this conversation.
- 29:17And I'll say this. I have, I think I've brought
- 29:19them up, but I have multiple Citizen watches.
- 29:22Again, pre, even when our home was broken into here and in
- 29:25Southern California when my parents passed away, I had two
- 29:28watches that I'd forgotten about and one that I wore in high
- 29:31school and one that I wore in college.
- 29:33Both Citizens, both. One needed a battery. 1 was an
- 29:36Eco drive. I pulled the Eco drive out
- 29:38thinking, well, you know, this thing's going to be dead.
- 29:40It's been sitting in a drawer. There's no way put it in the sun
- 29:42for a day. So and behold, the watch is back
- 29:44to life. I still have that watch.
- 29:46The other one needed a battery. I popped the battery into it.
- 29:48It still holds time. It still keeps time and I still
- 29:51wear that watch, my high school watch, right?
- 29:53I'm go, we're going on like 30 years right from that, from the
- 29:56moment that thing was on my wrist.
- 29:58Now when you get into segment 6, I want to get to get into a
- 30:00watch called the Casio Oceanis. It's kind of a Japanese watch
- 30:05that like nobody talks about. And this is kind of my wild
- 30:07card. I think I'm going to be brief
- 30:09here, but I think they're fascinating.
- 30:10So brief detour, you know, Casio, Casio, G shock, and then
- 30:14we covered them as in the tool watch section there, you know,
- 30:17the the matrix calculator watch that your uncle wore in like
- 30:201996. Casio is the kind of the
- 30:23consumer electronics giant. They're they're not a watch
- 30:26brand in like the serious sense, which is strange for me to say
- 30:29that because I know I can get ripped in comments, but like
- 30:31they're a consumer electronics brand, except, except there is a
- 30:35Casio line that almost nobody in the Western market really talks
- 30:39about. And it's genuinely interesting.
- 30:41Of course everyone's going to talk about G shock and all that
- 30:42kind of stuff, but no one talks about Oceanus, right?
- 30:45It's, it's available almost exclusively in Japan and they're
- 30:48very select Asian markets and it's, it's slowly making its way
- 30:51West. A range of solar powered
- 30:53multiband radio controlled titanium watches, meaning that
- 30:56they're GPS corrected over time. They're solar powered.
- 30:59There's titanium construction and in cases that like genuinely
- 31:03look like they belong in the risks of someone who's
- 31:05thoughtfully, you know, considered their watch.
- 31:07They also have a Manta line, which is kind of like the
- 31:10collector's choice 42mm. They have these multi layered
- 31:13dials, they have ceramic bezels and they're priced like between
- 31:16515 bucks. And if you import one, which you
- 31:19can do through Japanese Gray market sellers, you're, you're
- 31:22getting, I think it's technically superior solar radio
- 31:26controlled watch that's well designed, it's packaged well,
- 31:28and it's like a fraction of the price of these Swiss
- 31:30equivalents. And so I mentioned Oceanis here
- 31:33because it represents something important.
- 31:35It's the gap between what Japan makes and what Japan's
- 31:39reputation is and what they look like in the West.
- 31:41Now, Oceanis watches exist and they're genuinely good.
- 31:44And almost no Western watch enthusiast that I, that I've
- 31:48seen in small groups has them. You'll see them online.
- 31:50Obviously the the online space makes the world seem smaller,
- 31:54but but they in in in retrospect or in the world you they're
- 31:58really hard to find. So the gap, I think is this
- 32:00whole argument, but it's just kind of in miniature.
- 32:02Now I run, I have a Japanese exclusive astron from Seiko
- 32:08ASTRON and it's funny because it's it will only receive a
- 32:12signal from Japan. And so there's ways to hack
- 32:14those watches, but they're also just high actually accuracy
- 32:16course watches. And it's just a sleeper hit for
- 32:19me. It's octagonal cased.
- 32:21It's a watch that nobody else would would probably know.
- 32:24It's it's has a micro adjust in the clasp and Seiko just doesn't
- 32:27even talk about it. They just snuck it in there,
- 32:29right Titanium case. And so I think I've posted that
- 32:32watch on watch crunch in the past and it's just it's just a
- 32:34good watch. But again, nobody talks about
- 32:36them. OK.
- 32:37And it's also one of the watches that, you know, it has a, it
- 32:40has, it's solar powered. And so when I, you know, leave
- 32:43it and hide it for a while, it will keep time, but it will, it
- 32:46will power down. So when I take it, my kids like
- 32:48to take it and put in the sun and then it will auto set the
- 32:51time and auto set the date. It's just pretty cool.
- 32:54Now segment 7, let's talk about my honorable mentions.
- 32:57I'm going to talk about King Seko and also going to talk
- 32:59about Orient. Now 2 quick mentions before we
- 33:02get into what my thesis is for this whole thing.
- 33:04King Seiko again, Seiko's luxury brand recently revived.
- 33:08They sat alongside Grand Seiko in the 60s and 70s and where
- 33:11Grand Seiko was Seiko's precision line, King Seiko was
- 33:14kind of like their design first line.
- 33:17And they have like now they have revival pieces, particularly
- 33:20they have their 110th anniversary edition, a bunch of
- 33:23re issues that have been coming out, tons of stunning pieces
- 33:25that have this kind of somewhat in some some respects they're
- 33:29restrained and other time they're a little bit wild.
- 33:31And again, their price typically about half of what you would
- 33:34find a Grand Seiko for. So if you want this deep
- 33:37historical, historical kind of resonance and you want to
- 33:41connect to Seiko, but you want it to be like around 2 Grand
- 33:44King Seiko, I think is where to look now.
- 33:46Orient is owned by Seiko and they've owned Seiko.
- 33:49Seiko has owned them since about 2009.
- 33:51You can correct me on that, but my homework had two different
- 33:54numbers and I'm going to go with 2009.
- 33:56And they kind of maintain their own design language and
- 33:59manufacturing identity, which is pretty cool.
- 34:01The Orient Star, for example, that line offers these genuine
- 34:04in house automatic movements with exhibition case backs.
- 34:08They have beautifully skeletonized versions as well.
- 34:10If you're into the skeletonized where you can see your ear
- 34:12movements from front, from the dial side.
- 34:14And they're like around 3 to 400 bucks.
- 34:17And I think they're one of the great value plays in gold global
- 34:19watchmaking. And again, people just don't
- 34:21talk about them. The Bambino line, for example,
- 34:23is killer. Now, segment 8, I'm going to
- 34:24talk about what the thesis is and what Japan has built.
- 34:27So here is what Japan built. And let me say it plainly
- 34:31because I think it needs to be said in this this directly.
- 34:34Japan built the most precise production wristwatch movement
- 34:39in history, Citizens Caliber 0100, one second per year.
- 34:44Japan built a movement architecture that exists nowhere
- 34:48else in the world. Spring Drive, a mainspring
- 34:52powered watch regulated by an electromagnetic brake and a
- 34:55quartz oscillator. Neither mechanical nor quote the
- 34:59quartz. Something genuinely new,
- 35:01something genuinely revolutionary.
- 35:04It was conceived by one man, developed for 20 years, released
- 35:07to the market 14 months after that man passed away.
- 35:10Japan built a finishing tradition in the with homework
- 35:15from Philippe Dufour, the greatest living Swiss
- 35:18watchmaker, who calls their work pure.
- 35:21In the two room workshop in the mountains of Nagano.
- 35:24You have this wood that's sourced from a university in
- 35:27Japan and they make 25 watches per year.
- 35:30And I'm not going to get into the polishing and all that kind
- 35:33of stuff. You, you know, if you've, you've
- 35:35heard about Japanese polishing, you know that the terms and all
- 35:38that kind of stuff. I'm not going to beat that into
- 35:39the ground. You can go all over Reddit and
- 35:41get all that information. So I'm trying to give you
- 35:43something different here. Japan has built a series of
- 35:46dials that look like mountain landscapes because they're made
- 35:49by people who live near mountain landscapes.
- 35:51Snowflake textures, lacquer dials, porcelain fired in
- 35:55studios that are near the factories that they make these
- 35:58movements. They're not decorative
- 36:00exercises. They're, they're, they're
- 36:02aesthetic expressions of a place, things that they see
- 36:05outside. So again, the Swiss have won the
- 36:08marketing war. The Swiss have boutiques and
- 36:11they have celebrity ambassadors and they have record auctions
- 36:14and they have ho dinky covers and they have cultural fluency.
- 36:18The Swiss watch making is genuinely great and we've spent
- 36:22like 11 episodes saying so. But Japan, quiet, steady,
- 36:26without needing your or my approval.
- 36:30They won the engineering war, full stop.
- 36:32And in a small workshop in Japan, they quietly drew the
- 36:37line for what is going to what I think is this finishing war.
- 36:42They, their movements are finished to a standard that is
- 36:46not replicatable. And I want Western collectors to
- 36:48know this, not to replace their relationship with Swiss
- 36:51watchmaking. That's not the goal.
- 36:53The goal is to compete, to understand that this hobby
- 36:56contains a bunch of different variables and it is a full
- 37:00global scape. But Japan deserves our
- 37:03attention. They are not a budget
- 37:05alternative. They are a parallel tradition.
- 37:09And I think for folks that are wearing Grand Seikos, lots of
- 37:12respect to them as well because they are they're finished in a
- 37:15way and they're there. There's a lot of attention to
- 37:18detail and I think a lot of other companies will they would
- 37:21rather just throw on a random micro adjust versus considering,
- 37:25well, maybe this should be really comfortable and rest
- 37:27right now. Next, let's get into Japan Part
- 37:302. So next episode we're going to
- 37:32talk about the Japanese independence.
- 37:34So we covered some big names today, some big institutions,
- 37:36the houses, the brands, the factories in mountain cities and
- 37:39decades of history. But in Japan, just like
- 37:41Switzerland, just like America, they have their independent
- 37:44watchmakers as well. Individuals are very small
- 37:47operations making watches by hand in very tiny quantities to
- 37:51extraordinary standards. And so I'm going to get into
- 37:54some of the brands here now, the independents are, in my view,
- 37:58among the most exciting stories in watchmaking right now that
- 38:01again, no one's talking about no one in the Western watch
- 38:03community knows these brands by name.
- 38:05But by the end, I hope you will. And hopefully I'll have a couple
- 38:09of weeks to to prepare and practice my my pronunciation.
- 38:12So if I screwed these up now, maybe they'll be better in the
- 38:14next episode or maybe they'll be worse.
- 38:16I believe the first one's going to be Hajimi ASA Aloka Asoka.
- 38:22He's a solo watchmaker and he's in Tokyo.
- 38:24He's member of the AHCI. It's like this prestigious
- 38:27Independent Watchmakers association.
- 38:29The dude builds Torbians and chronographs and he builds them,
- 38:32wait for it entirely by hand alone from individual
- 38:36components. And he makes like roughly 5
- 38:38watches per year. And he would be, I think, the
- 38:41analogy to Philippe Dufour, but in Japan.
- 38:44Next one, we're going to go to Nayo Nayoya.
- 38:47That's NAOYA Hida, and he worked at Patek Philippe and then at FP
- 38:53Jorn before launching his own brand.
- 38:56He has an NH Type 1 and NH Type 2.
- 38:58They're among the most thoughtfully proportioned
- 39:01classical dress watches being made anywhere in the world right
- 39:03now by anyone. And he makes like less than 50 a
- 39:07year. You have Kikuno as the last
- 39:10name. I think the first name is Masha
- 39:13Hiro. Masha Hiro Kikuno, it's pretty I
- 39:17don't know, I'm a mess. Another member of the ACHI.
- 39:20He makes turbians again, entirely by hand, almost unknown
- 39:23outside of Japan. He works in a kind of a
- 39:26tradition that the complete individual watchmaker that is, I
- 39:30think vanishing in the world. And he's just a very much a
- 39:33reminder of the other like Kita, for example, and the concept of
- 39:37of what Asahoka, for example, and how they're making a handful
- 39:40of watches, very reminiscent for me of what Reshef is making.
- 39:44And again, accessible entry point into some of these you're
- 39:47going to get into like multiple brands.
- 39:49They're they're collector watchmaking, but they, they
- 39:52don't require you like sell a kidney or a car.
- 39:55Some of them are like sub 5 or $6000.
- 39:57Now, again, there's this design that's unmistakably Japanese,
- 40:00but they are very hard to get. So Japan, I'm going to say this
- 40:04has its own recheck rechebes and they have had them for decades.
- 40:07We just haven't been paying enough attention.
- 40:09So that's going to be Part 2 of the.
- 40:11This kind of two-part series in Japan OK, let's close this out.
- 40:14So that has been episode 16 of what's on your restate if this
- 40:17episode changed how you think about Japan or confirmed what
- 40:21you already suspected or you've been sitting at the keyboard
- 40:23waiting to hate on me because you you're tired of the Grand
- 40:26Seiko Bros on Reddit, I'm going crazy.
- 40:29Feel free to light me up. But I have a deep respect for
- 40:32not only the Japanese culture, but also the Japanese
- 40:34watchmaking and the fact that they just don't pour money into
- 40:37marketing and instead pour all that time and effort into being
- 40:40respectful of your wrist. And I think that's pretty cool.
- 40:43Now if any of this has resonated with you, find me tell me.
- 40:46I'm particularly curious to hear for listeners who already wear
- 40:48Grand Seikos or have credors on their wrist or have had in the
- 40:51past, tell me what it's like in person.
- 40:53I want to know and to the the origin of Grand Sego's Spring
- 40:58Drive. I'm going to do my best not to
- 41:01mess this up again because I think it's it's it's in respect.
- 41:04Yoshikazu AKA Haine, who died 52, died at age 52 without
- 41:09seeing his spring Dr. movement on a wrist.
- 41:12You earned it. 26 years is a long time to believe in
- 41:15something and the watches you made possible are on people's
- 41:18wrists right now. That's not nothing, that's
- 41:21that's everything. I'm watch Offski.
- 41:23Take care of yourselves and wear something good.
- 41:25I'll see you in the next episode.
- 41:42Look where the cedar leans, the lays keep turning slow.
- 41:48Small rooms, sharp hands, one loop, 1 steady close calipers
- 41:57kiss the steel. Every edge gets named.
- 42:04Nothing loud in here, just time may change from the bench to the
- 42:12case, from the spring to the seal, they chase a perfect tick
- 42:16that you can really feel. No parade, no flash.
- 42:20The line stay true, quiet work in the hills and it comes
- 42:25through. Grand Seiko Crater, Citizen in
- 42:31the rain. Grand Seiko Crater Micro Studios
- 42:35Mountain Air fingertips and grin the most accurate watch the
- 42:43smallest visible scar. Quiet.
- 42:47It's loud. That's how legends are hands in
- 42:55white cotton cloth files like winter moons.
- 43:02A bridge gets bevels bright then checked under.
- 43:18In a case few people ever see, from the bench to the case from
- 43:26the spring of the seal, they chase a perfect tick that you
- 43:29can really feel. No parade, no flash, just the
- 43:33line. Stay true, quiet.
- 43:35Work in the hills and it comes through.
- 43:39Grand Seiko credo. Citizen in the rain, Grand
- 43:45Seiko, Credo, Julio's mountain air, Fingertips and green.
- 43:51The most accurate watch the smallest visible scar.
- 43:59Quiet beats loud. That's how legends are.
- 44:07Not a shout, not a stunt, not a name on a wall.
- 44:11It's fire only edge. It's a market, can't recall.
- 44:14It's the hand over hand. It's the patient craft.
- 44:18A mountain keeps it secret in the second slide.
- 44:26Grand Seiko Crater Citizen in the rain.
- 44:31Francisco Crater Micro Studios, Mountain air, fingertips and
- 44:38grain. The most accurate watch the
- 44:42smallest visible sky. Quiet beats loud.
- 44:49That's how legends are.