Latest / Rusty's Garage / Dario Franchitti (Part 1)

Transcript

Dario Franchitti (Part 1) · Rusty's Garage

0:02
A listener production.
0:10
I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
0:27
I'm in New Zealand for this ep and my guest, well, he's in Scotland.
0:31
Can't tell you how excited I am to chat to Dario Franchitti.
0:34
He's been high on the wish list for some time.
0:37
Like many of you, I greatly admire what he's achieved as a racer, especially in America where he won the IndyCar title four times, including three in a row.
0:47
And he got to drink the famous winner's milk at the greatest spectacle in motor racing, the Indy 500, three times.
0:54
It's a feat that very few have achieved.
0:57
I've been fortunate to meet and interview him before during broadcasts of the Gold Coast event, but never had a good chance to talk at length about his proper love of cars and his genuine appreciation for the history of motorsport.
1:10
Our podcast happened at the time of his Instagram series, Dario's Career in Cars, and man, there's been a few, from those that he was just at one with and others that left him nursing serious injury.
1:23
Dario's career in cars,
1:23
Sadly, he lost some good mates along the way too.
1:26
We'll talk about that later.
1:28
And a crash that forced him to call time on professional racing.
1:32
Mind you, he still pulls on the helmet for some seriously cool opportunities to drive priceless machines that made their mark in the sports annals.
1:40
And he's pretty handy on the mic, calling the electric Formula E series as well.
1:45
We start with early life and a true generational love of cars.
1:51
So I was born in a place called Bathgate, just outside Edinburgh.
1:57
And my love of racing, first of all, I think it came from my dad.
2:04
You know, it's funny, I've been thinking about this recently and people always say, oh, who's your heroes?
2:08
And we're always talking about, yeah, Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart and all that.
2:12
And it occurred to me the other day at the age of 46 that actually my dad's my hero.
2:18
And the decisions that I made and the things that I did and the things I fell in love with were all because of him.
2:24
And he raced at the weekend.
2:27
Actually, I've got a model of his old Formula 2 March there, March 792.
2:37
And he raced Formula Ford and stuff locally in Scotland.
2:40
And that really...
2:42
That started it all for me.
2:44
I remember sitting watching him, watching all the different cars at Ingolston, just outside Edinburgh, right next to the airport.
2:51
And it would be a situation, you would go there, I mean, late 70s, you'd go there and it'd be three or four Formula One cars, couple of year old F1 cars, running around this little one mile circuit.
3:01
It was madness.
3:02
And that sort of, that instilled that love of racing.
3:06
And as far as cars,
3:09
Yeah, my dad had some pretty tasty stuff early on before he started blowing all his money on my racing.
3:16
I think he sort of highlights what RS3100 Capri Escort Mexico before that.
3:23
And then he got a Ferrari Dino, a blue 246 Dino, which unfortunately got written off.
3:33
What else did he have?
3:33
Then he went to Porsches and had a bunch of Porsches, which there was one in particular that...
3:39
It was a 1980, he bought a red 930, 911 Turbo.
3:44
And I loved that car.
3:45
I mean, it was just, there was a point I went, I had all these red cars in my garage and it was all because of this one car.
3:53
And I found it.
3:55
I was reading one of the magazines I've got behind me there and I looked at him and I thought, I'm sure that's my dad's car.
3:59
I've actually got the magazine behind me here.
4:01
I'm sure that's his car.
4:02
And I looked at the interior and I said, it's got to be.
4:04
So I did a bit of research and it was, I sort of stocked it for a while, bought it at auction, had it fully restored.
4:12
It's absolutely mint now and gave him it last,
4:16
middle of last year.
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So that was a lot of fun to do and to have the car back to the family is really cool.
4:23
And then he spent all his money on racing and that was the end of the big car collection.
4:29
is the extension, the little extension to that story that he sold the Porsche to help your career.
4:34
So that's the cool part of getting it back, isn't it?
4:37
Yeah, that was, you know, I think at that point he could start, he could see it, you know, this racing Lark was going to get expensive.
4:42
And yeah, and so that car went.
4:46
And as I say, I looked for pictures of the car.
4:48
I just, it was such a big part of my childhood memories.
4:53
And Marino was the same.
4:55
Marino and I remember sitting in the back of it,
4:58
back in the day before, like seatbelts for kids and stuff in the back of the car.
5:02
And, um...
5:04
Yeah, so that was really cool.
5:05
His face, I videoed it all when he walked in the garage and it was undercover and he's like, well, what's this?
5:10
And his face just dropped.
5:13
So that was fun.
5:15
It's in the family, the genetics, that's clear.
5:17
Your brother Marino is an accomplished driver too.
5:20
I recall you telling the Motorsport Magazine guys that you both have very similar driving styles and the engineers have noticed this, haven't they?
5:29
Yeah, we always talked about driving cars and what we did and everything.
5:34
But until you really see it in the data, you can't be sure.
5:39
And we did Daytona together for the first time in 2005.
5:43
And those first laps that we overlaid and the data, the data traces all these lines of data, exactly what you're doing, the throttle, the brakes, the steering, all that stuff.
5:53
Identical.
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the way we released the brake pedal, the way we pressed it back to the throttle, the steering angles, the balance we liked in the car.
6:01
It was quite shocking actually, just how it's sort of hardwired in your brain.
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I blame my dad because he was the one who set up both our carts when we were kids.
6:13
And it was like, he set them up with a certain balance in mind and we drove to that setup.
6:18
Amazing.
6:19
Did you get competitive?
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He's younger, but brothers so often do.
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Well, as youngsters, it was a five year age gap.
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So it wasn't so much getting competitive.
6:27
He just annoyed me up until he was about, I mean, seriously, up until he was about 15, he just annoyed me.
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And then,
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I thought this guy's actually quite cool.
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And I sort of, I might have let him drive my car to school.
6:45
Couple of times my factory, when I was driving from Mercedes, my company car.
6:49
And so I'd let him drive it to school.
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From that point on, we became great mates.
6:52
He lives five miles from here.
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And we're great friends.
6:57
And we, my sister likes to say we share a brain cell.
7:01
We literally will be thinking someone
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And the phone will ring and there's Marino.
7:05
Oh, I've been thinking.
7:07
And yeah, he's great.
7:09
The only time we've ever got competitive, I think, in the car was the last race we did together.
7:14
We did Petit Le Mans in, was it 12?
7:19
I think 2012.
7:20
And we were testing and he'd gone out and done a lap in the car and I thought, right.
7:28
have I got this?
7:29
And off I went.
7:31
And the car had live camera back to the pits because the gentleman driver that was, the team and everything was funding it.
7:38
They wanted to sort of give him real time data and tell him what to do.
7:43
So I'm blasting around.
7:44
I come to turn one at Road Atlanta, and I'm thinking, I'm on new tyres.
7:46
I'm going to show Marino who's boss, put a big lap in, and I've hit the dip at turn one at Road Atlanta.
7:52
I think it was a breathe on the brakes, down one gear, flat on it.
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Hit the dip, the car snapped sideways, and I've caught the thing.
8:01
It's got a massive tank slapper.
8:03
Got it all together.
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I've come back, and I've come down the pit lane, and I'm literally shaking with adrenaline.
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And Marino's hanging over the pit wall going,
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Big congratulations, applause.
8:14
Big congratulations, clap.
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And I just, yeah.
8:17
That's the only time I think we've ever been properly competitive.
8:21
You're a proper student of the sport and you have been for a long time.
8:24
You have a real thirst for it.
8:26
Where did that come from?
8:28
And especially the fondness, the real appreciation that you have for the legendary Jimmy Clark.
8:32
I mean, I think it started very early.
8:35
I have these memories of being like, I'm literally five or six years old and I'm in my grandparents' house in Italy.
8:44
And there was motorsport magazines, you know, only one or two sitting around the house.
8:49
And it had that green cover with the white lines.
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And I would sit and just look at the pictures.
8:54
And that sort of got me a bit into the history.
8:58
I'd read Autosport every week.
9:01
And as I sort of got a bit older, I looked back more and more.
9:06
And my real love, I guess the first love is the
9:12
the late 70s sort of F1 cars.
9:14
And I've got models behind me right here that I just bought on eBay recently because my grandmother bought me these when I was a kid.
9:24
And that sort of started my love of certain Formula 1 cars.
9:27
And so I bought them.
9:29
But the Jim Clark thing,
9:35
I think it was 1993 and Jackie phoned me up.
9:40
I was driving for Paul Stewart racing.
9:42
And so Jackie's phoned me up and said, oh, we've got a dinner in Edinburgh.
9:45
I would like these to go.
9:46
I said, yeah, okay, of course, whatever you want.
9:51
What's it about?
9:52
And he said, well, it's the 25th anniversary of Jim Clark's passing.
9:56
and we'd like to go up there and honour him.
9:59
And I'd like you to be there."
10:01
So I went and I sat next to Eric Dimmock, who's written, I think his book's actually up there too.
10:07
And he was a great friend of Jim.
10:09
And I sat at this dinner going, who was this guy?
10:13
I knew a bit about him, but I thought, who is this man?
10:16
Who is... And it started a sort of a real appreciation.
10:23
And I...
10:25
I went home and it was one of those things, mum's like, what do you want for your birthday?
10:29
I said, oh, I'd like a Jim Clark picture.
10:31
And I got all my friends to buy me Jim Clark pictures, a lot of which I've still got up on the walls in Scotland.
10:36
And that's where it started.
10:36
And it was reading the books and talking to his friends.
10:39
And then it got a bit out of control and it was buying race suits.
10:41
And I got his 1964 Lotus Cortina at home.
10:46
And there's a room in the house that's just, or in my garage in Scotland, it's just full of Jim Clark memorabilia.
10:54
It's been so interesting.
10:56
I've gone to Indianapolis every year and people will come up and tell me stories.
10:58
Oh, I was at the 65 race.
11:00
I was at the 64 race.
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I met Jim.
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And people would come up and say, here's my scrapbook from when I was a kid on Jim Clark.
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My kids and my grandkids have got no interest in it.
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I'd like you to look after it for me.
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And stuff like that is really humbling.
11:16
Yeah.
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Processing.
11:18
Tell us more about that car.
11:19
Our listeners would love to know more about that, Cortina.
11:22
Yeah, so it's the 1964 British Saloon Car Championship winner.
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He did eight races in it.
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He won all eight.
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And the number plate is BGH417B.
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If you go on YouTube, you'll see it sort of three-wheel around Crystal Palace and stuff.
11:40
The story there, I've been looking for one.
11:43
And I had my accident in Houston and I was lying in the hospital, had a fair bit of morphine on board, feeling good, not feeling much pain.
11:54
And Andy, Andy Middlehurst, who owns the Jimmy's, the BRM engine car that won at Watkins Glen.
12:03
Andy's a huge Jim Clark fan too.
12:04
He's got a Cortina.
12:05
He restored a bunch of the cars in the late eighties and he,
12:09
I phoned Andy, I said, Andy, I want to buy that car.
12:12
There's a car for sale with somebody, I want to buy it.
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And he said, it's not really the one you want.
12:20
He said, the one you want, I know where it is, but the guy won't sell it.
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I said, well, life's too short, just let's buy it.
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So then he phoned me back and he said, it's surprising I can remember this actually, because I don't remember much of that time.
12:35
And he said, they've just put the price up, mate.
12:37
He said, forget it.
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He said, we'll find the right car at the right time.
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I said, okay, good.
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Then he phoned me up, I don't know, eight months later and said, that car's for sale.
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The guy wants to sell it.
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He wants to sell it to you.
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This is the price.
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There's no haggling.
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Do you want it?
12:51
Yeah, I'll have it.
12:52
And it showed up in Scotland on an open trailer.
12:54
Yeah.
12:57
Oh my God.
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And it's, I've driven it a couple of times.
13:01
I drove it from my house in Scotland to the Jim Clark Museum where it's now, it's in the museum sitting next to Lotus 25 that actually I think came from Australia.
13:10
And it's, yeah, so it's sitting there and at some point I'll take it back and I take it out and I drive it to the shop for coffee or something.
13:20
It's funny when people see it,
13:23
they go, oh, Lotus Cortina.
13:24
Then some people will see it and just freak out.
13:26
They know.
13:27
Just when you park it on the... Yeah, because they know when you see it when it's parked on the street or whatever.
13:32
And I just, I love the fact they get to sit where Jim's at and it's got his special steering wheel that he liked.
13:38
And it... Yeah.
13:41
Honestly, the borders roads, round about where he used to take his cars and play around, the car just came alive.
13:47
It was brilliant.
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It wasn't so much fun on the motorway, but on the back roads, it was brilliant.
13:52
Magic.
13:53
You've had success in the early part of your career in carts, like most drivers, and then the junior formula.
13:58
When did you crystallise it, that this was more than pastime, it would be your sole pursuit, your life?
14:04
I was always very serious about it, Rusty.
14:06
I always...
14:08
from even in karting, I've always wanted to be a racing driver.
14:12
It's all I ever wanted to do.
14:13
From when I was a little boy, I wanted to be a racing driver.
14:16
Then as you become, you get older and you realize, this isn't quite as simple as you would like it to be.
14:25
And even in karting, I was very serious.
14:30
And then my, you know, it's one of those things, you're not going to do it without support.
14:33
And I had a lot of support, my parents, some friends back in Scotland too.
14:40
And was there a big, was there a great plan
14:48
I knew what I wanted to do, but really from that point, it was just trying to make it happen.
14:54
And I was very fortunate in the people I got involved with, you know, with David Leslie, father and son, Jackie Stewart, that sort of stuff.
15:03
And, you know, it's a usual story.
15:07
Without finance, you're not going to go anywhere.
15:11
And my dad spent a lot of money on karting,
15:14
And what people spend today, it was a drop in the ocean, but it was a lot of money at the time.
15:20
And, you know, he remortgaged the house for me to go race in that first year.
15:26
And without, without, actually, to be honest, he didn't tell my mum he remortgaged it either.
15:31
And if you've ever met my mother, that was a brave move.
15:34
But then getting involved with Jackie Stewart and stuff, that was when,
15:39
I thought there's maybe an opportunity.
15:42
But I look at the decisions I made at the time and I wasn't scared of risk, I'll tell you.
15:48
I had nothing to lose, but I really wasn't scared of just throwing it out there, making big choices.
15:55
And it was, I was going to say it was an exciting time.
15:57
It was a terrifying time because you knew you were sort of one mistake or, you know, one decision by somebody else from having to go find a real job, which I had no idea what that would be.
16:11
You were, you know, single-seaters early on, but there is the patch where you're at DTM with Mercedes and so on.
16:18
Was there a point where you were thinking, maybe I'll end up going down this kind of saloon car or touring car path?
16:24
Or was it always that you wanted to get back to single-seaters in some way?
16:28
I wanted to go to F1.
16:31
At that stage, I wanted to, you know, through the single-seater ranks, through Formula 3, I wanted to be an F1.
16:36
And...
16:39
94 kind of changed my thinking a bit.
16:41
I was in, in Formula three with Paul Stewart racing and I was sort of, and Jan Magnussen and I were teammates and Jan, I won the first race and Jan won, I think nearly every other race that season.
16:50
It was dominant performance.
16:52
And, uh, I thought, you know, my, my, the plan was always, I was going to stay with Paul Stewart racing through the whole staircase and that, that changed my mind a bit.
17:04
you know, just the way things went inside the team, not with Paul or Jackie, but some other people.
17:08
And I just, I decided to, I got the opportunity to go to Mercedes and I drove the car.
17:15
I loved the car from the first moment I drove it.
17:17
That V6, that little heist, Revan V6, just screaming away all the tech, all those things.
17:25
And so I thought it was probably time to make a change.
17:28
And I,
17:30
I thought there was still a chance to do Formula One.
17:32
And it turned out, you know, actually came pretty close with Mercedes at one point.
17:36
But I would have been happy being a DTM driver.
17:40
I had so much enjoyment driving those cars and being in that championship.
17:46
But then within two years, it priced itself into oblivion.
17:50
Opportunities did come from them, though, to ultimately go to America, which I think was super cool and so pivotal for your life and what unfolded there.
18:00
You mentioned Formula One.
18:01
I mean, there was the test for Jaguar and the chance to be test driver at McLaren.
18:05
But in taking those punts you talked about before, you clearly thought that America was the right thing for you, did you?
18:14
Well...
18:15
In the 95, I tested the McLaren as part of winning the McLaren, the Autosport Young Driver of the Year.
18:20
That was the test.
18:21
But normally you got sort of 10 laps around Silverstone on a wet December day because I was a Mercedes Young Driver.
18:30
They said, right, we're going to Jerez and it'll be a half day.
18:34
I was like, oh, OK.
18:36
So I did the test.
18:37
It went well.
18:38
Actually, Bernd Schneider and I got to do it.
18:40
That was the first time Schneider had driven a decent Formula One car.
18:44
And as I say, it went well.
18:47
And then nothing happened through.
18:50
I've actually got a letter from Ron Dennis explaining to me why I've kept everything, by the way, all the memorabilia.
18:56
But there's a letter from Ron explaining why he didn't, you know, he hasn't sort of taken, given me an opportunity to do anything.
19:03
That was 96, 97, I went to America.
19:08
And I sort of just arrived there, got my feet on the ground and Ron, actually Norbert called and said, you need to be in Woking on whatever day.
19:15
We're gonna have a meeting with Ron.
19:17
And that was, and I said, can I bring my manager?
19:20
And he said, absolutely not.
19:20
Oh.
19:24
Okay then, it's gonna be one of those meetings.
19:26
So, you know, it was Ron laying out
19:30
his sort of vision of what it was gonna be.
19:34
And it was me being test driver.
19:35
In those days, remember they tested Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday every week.
19:39
So it'd be driving in America on the weekends.
19:43
McLaren would, or I think it was West at the time, would sponsor the IndyCar.
19:49
I'd do the race on Sunday, I'd go to New York, jump on Concorde, fly back to the UK, they'd fly me to the test, the test Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, do the reverse trip back, race the IndyCar.
20:00
That was going to be my life.
20:01
And it was a great opportunity, but there was a part of me didn't, I was going to say didn't trust Ron, that's the wrong thing.
20:11
I just felt it was...
20:13
It was sort of, I'd seen the way Alan McNish had been spat out by the whole Formula One system.
20:20
And I didn't, there was something in me just saying, no, I'm not doing it.
20:23
And I said, no.
20:24
And I think the first time Ron and I had spoken since then was two years ago, the Goodwood revival.
20:32
That was it since then.
20:33
How did that go?
20:33
It was actually quite pleasant.
20:35
I think that day he'd actually just been paid for his McLaren share.
20:38
So he was feeling pretty good about life.
20:42
And that was, but that was, I think that was also the beginning of the end for my Mercedes relationship.
20:48
Who knows what life would have been like had I taken that option, but I didn't think it was the right thing to do.
20:54
And I'm pretty happy with the way things went.
20:57
Yeah, you should be.
21:10
The Goodwood Festival of Speed is an annual hill climb, featuring historic motor racing vehicles held in the grounds of Goodwood House, West Sussex, England.
21:20
Just as famous is the unique building high sculpture erected on the grounds each year, that represents the car manufacturer.
21:27
Last year it was Aston Martin, the manufacturer that was also displayed in the very first Goodwood in 1993.
21:35
Tell people listening about the first time you drove a Champ car, where you were, the sensations, the feeling that it left you with.
21:42
So to give you a bit of backstory, I was at the end of year Mercedes party in Stuttgart and I sat next to one of those complete
21:54
just fortunate things.
21:55
I sat next to Paul Morgan and Paul was one of the founders of Ilmore with Mario Alien and those guys did the Mercedes F1.
22:01
In fact, they still do.
22:04
The companies sort of morphed into Mercedes high performance engines, but they did the F1 engines, the Mercedes IndyCar engines.
22:11
And Paul was just one of those just cool people.
22:15
And so we sat down to dinner and he says, so what are you doing next year?
22:18
I said, well, I'm
22:20
I'd like to go to America.
22:22
So Jan Magnussen had gone there.
22:23
He was my teammate at Mercedes DTM.
22:25
And Jan said, you've got to go there, mate.
22:27
You've got to drive these cars, they're awesome.
22:28
It's so much fun.
22:30
And I said to Paul, I'd like to go to America.
22:31
And he sort of looked at me and he said, well, let me see what I can do.
22:36
Okay, thanks very much.
22:38
And January came and he phoned me.
22:39
He said, right, this is what's going to happen.
22:41
Norbert's going to call you in probably half an hour.
22:43
He's going to tell you he's organized this test, which I have.
22:47
And,
22:49
You got to test with a man called Carl Hogan.
22:51
Good guy.
22:53
He's just bought new Raynards.
22:54
He's got this team together.
22:57
We'll support it.
22:58
And if it goes well, you got to chill.
23:00
So I went to Homestead and I was actually thinking about this other day, because I flew out of Miami after they aborted St. Pete race.
23:09
So I flew into Miami, went to rent a car and they went, I'm sorry, where are you from?
23:14
How old are you?
23:15
No.
23:16
I was like, I've got to go to Homestead.
23:19
So I had to go to this really dodgy rental car place and off I went.
23:23
And it was Homestead Road Course and it was May and Jimmy Vassar, I think.
23:27
And Jimmy was the reigning champion at the time, we're testing.
23:32
And the first time the turbo lit up on that car,
23:36
It was like, you know, that scene in Star Wars when the Millennium Falcon goes to light speed.
23:41
Oh, my God.
23:44
I was used to driving a car with a sort of nine inch rear tires, power steering, all this stuff.
23:49
This thing is a beast.
23:51
Every time I take my hand off the wheel to pull the lever for the sequential shift of the car would veer across the road because I couldn't hold it in a straight line with one hand.
23:59
Yeah.
24:00
and the grip level and the fast corners and just how physical it was.
24:05
I loved it.
24:06
I was totally out of my depth and I absolutely loved it.
24:09
And it went well and I got the job.
24:13
You sure did.
24:14
And it began a chapter in your life, mate, that was hugely successful.
24:19
I want to, in steering this champ car, IndyCar aspect of your time, let's talk a little bit about Aussies for a second and involvement with Aussies.
24:33
Tinkle Green, Barry and Kim Green, I mean, Aussie motor racing fans look upon them in this sort of this, you know, this legendary manner.
24:40
What was it like to be a part of all of that as a young racer?
24:44
I'm sitting here thinking of Barry.
24:48
There was a clip the other day.
24:50
I've been doing this thing on Instagram, sort of visiting each car I drove throughout my career.
24:54
Which is fabulous, by the way.
24:56
It's fabulous.
24:57
Oh, thank you.
24:58
It's about to get better.
24:58
I've just gone through the NASCAR years.
25:00
It was a bit bumpy.
25:00
It's about to get more successful again and more fun.
25:05
And there was a thing when I went to drive for Jaguar and they interviewed Barry Green at the IndyCar race.
25:09
And Barry's like,
25:11
He wanted to do it, we let him do it.
25:14
We hope he's gonna stay with us.
25:16
And it was just Barry's attitude from day one.
25:20
He was just, I think, pragmatic is a word, but he just did things with such a light touch.
25:29
He managed his team up until there was the famous saying, you got a minute mate?
25:37
And if he said that, if I said that to Paul Tracy just now, Paul, go, it was that anybody in the team got him in at night, that meant you're in for a bollocking.
25:48
So he was fierce, but from the first time I sat with him midway through 97 and talked about driving for his team, I just thought, yeah, you're the guy I want running my team.
25:59
There's something just about him that he's just, he's a different class.
26:05
And...
26:07
When we won in 99 at Surfers, he was able to win his home race, him and Kim.
26:14
It was, that was just like a bit of payback because that guy put a tremendous amount of trust in me and gave me a really big chance.
26:23
When I look back now and I think in 97 season, all I did was crash.
26:28
I was either really quick or crashed and he said, yeah, I want that kid in my car.
26:33
Amazing.
26:34
That 99 Gold Coast experience was huge for all sorts of reasons.
26:38
The state of play in the championship, you worked with Brett Crusher Murray, the gregarious PR man.
26:45
Is that, I'm trying to remember, is that the famous Don King presser?
26:49
Is that the year that he did it too?
26:52
Yeah, that was the famous Don King press conference, different times.
26:57
But that was Crush.
26:58
I mean, the first time I met Crusher, I came off the plane, I think, in 97.
27:03
And it was one of the early races at that point in the calendar.
27:06
And I came off the plane going, there was all these press people.
27:10
And there was this big guy that sort of bossed me around.
27:17
And I didn't, at that point, I didn't enjoy any of the sort of the fun of Australia.
27:20
I went there, kept my head down, did my job.
27:23
And then in 98, Greg and I went there like two weeks before.
27:29
And I fully enjoyed the surfers experience before the race, but after the race.
27:35
And that was really when I fell in love with Surfers Paradise and Australia.
27:40
And, you know, 99 was a great race as far as, you know,
27:45
I'll always remember that, the pole position lap, winning the race.
27:50
It's the one car I have at home, the one sort of champ car, Indy car.
27:55
Yeah, it's the one I have at home.
27:56
And it was kind of the last of the fun races because the next race, Greg was killed.
28:02
And that was the last, so that to me, that was the last sort of of the carefree races when life was just fun and you know, you got paid well to go,
28:12
race Indy cars.
28:13
One of my big regrets is that night after winning that race, I didn't go out because I had to go to Japan the next morning, very, very early.
28:22
I got the Tokyo Motor Show, I think.
28:23
So that was one of those big regrets.
28:25
I wish I'd gone to the after party because,
28:28
you know at that point I'd met Ashley as well and life you know life it's life's changed yeah the car I'm glad you kept the car I think that's super cool that you did that mate I mean it was a period for champ car you mentioned the horsepower before the way the cars what they were like they were just a good sexy looking race car an incredible line up of drivers in that that period of the sport as well to be in the midst of all that to be winning races and fighting for that championship that's huge mate yeah
28:57
Yeah, that was a fun time.
29:00
It was so fun that, you know, fighting 98, fighting with Zanardi at Surfers for Pole Position.
29:06
I remember that well, because it was his last road course race, and he'd been the dominant guy.
29:10
And I wanted to show that, you know, I was gonna, I could go toe to toe with him before he headed off to F1.
29:17
And yeah, so the competition in those periods was immense.
29:21
The cars were so,
29:23
God, they took no prisoners, I'll tell you.
29:27
They even, you know, on the street courses around surfers, you were just spinning the tires up every corner, trying to manage it all, sequential shifts.
29:34
The speed, the noise, the violence of it all was incredible.
29:39
Leaving the pits on cold tires on any of those street circuits was,
29:43
It was an eye-opening experience.
29:45
You mentioned before about Greg Moore and you were mates with Dan Weldon as well.
29:52
I can sense it in your voice, mate, even when you bring it up now.
29:56
To lose those guys from a fan point of view was immensely upsetting.
30:02
I can't imagine how it was for you as a friend.
30:05
How do you regather and go racing when those moments happen, when that comes into your life?
30:15
There were very different times in my life when Greg died, when Dan died.
30:22
So I think I was more equipped to deal, if that's the right word, when Dan died.
30:29
When Greg died, I mean, this is another instance of Barry Green just being an absolute legendary person.
30:35
I said, Barry, I don't want to get in a car.
30:36
He said, fine.
30:37
He said, go away, do what you got to do.
30:39
Go to Scotland, relax.
30:41
When you're ready to come back, come back.
30:44
And I took months and months off.
30:45
And actually the next time I got in the car, something broke on it and I broke my pelvis and smashed my head up and everything.
30:50
But that's a different story.
30:53
But I was really, at that point, just devastated.
30:56
And I didn't want to go near a racing car.
30:58
Didn't really want to do it.
31:00
Really, really struggled.
31:04
When Dan died, it was...
31:06
I mean, it was...
31:08
It was tough, but...
31:11
It was Tony and I were supposed to be testing the new car that Dan had developed.
31:15
And we were both back in the car days later.
31:20
And I sort of felt a responsibility almost to start testing this car.
31:25
And as one of the elder statesmen by that point of the series, and sort of helping to guide and helping to
31:32
to lead everybody forward.
31:33
Tony and I, by that point, were two of the older guys.
31:36
And we talk about it now.
31:38
We did feel that responsibility to get on with things and to keep the show on the road.
31:43
But there's a certain degree of you just go forward.
31:49
You just, I mean, we all do it, I guess.
31:51
You just go forward.
31:51
You just put one foot in front of the other and just get on with it.
31:54
But they were, yeah, those were horrible times both.
32:01
And the problem is a lot of things you forget in life.
32:03
I don't forget either of those.
32:07
moments, I think, when Greg and when Dan died and, you know, when Justin died.
32:11
I was playing iRacing last night with Stefan Wilson, his brother, and I was just thinking about him.
32:18
Yeah, horrible, horrible.
32:20
The real bad side of our sport, I think Mario Andretti said it when Ronnie Peterson died, he said, you know, racing is also this.
32:29
Mm-hmm.
32:31
you can and and and um i'm sure you you do cherish lots of the great memories that you have with those guys there's a fun one that i'd like to continue the conversation on now with you greg moore and and i think max and you guys drove from one race to another in in a motorhome and i think you shared the driving didn't you and you literally kind of made it like a non-stop race you'd
32:54
keep motoring and switch drivers on the go.
32:57
And at the same time, am I right in saying you're all deep in contract negotiations or something along those lines, weren't you?
33:06
Yeah, we were.
33:07
This is when these stories come out now, this is the point where Greg's dad, Rick, you know, 20 odd years later now still goes, I don't want to hear it.
33:19
Yeah, I spoke to Rick, you know, yesterday we text back and forwards and we speak on the phone and stuff.
33:25
And he'll tell me, he goes, I don't want to hear.
33:28
So we were at Mid-Ohio in 98 and we had to get to Road America.
33:35
So a fair old drive, probably eight hour drive.
33:38
And Greg had this bus, you know, like a Prevo motorhome, beautiful thing.
33:44
Yeah, yeah.
33:45
He's like, right, boys, we're going to drive.
33:50
You ever driven a bus before?
33:53
No?
33:53
Max, you?
33:54
No.
33:55
He goes, it's okay, it's okay, I've driven it.
33:57
Greg at this point is 21 or something, 22 years old.
34:00
He's like, oh, God.
34:01
The insurance company must be having a coronary by this point.
34:06
So we head off, we stayed in Cleveland.
34:07
I think Greg had a girl with him.
34:10
Yeah, he did, which is not, well, it's not unusual.
34:15
So we stayed in Cleveland the night, we're driving up the next day and Greg would be driving and the phone would ring and he'd be like, Max, take over.
34:26
So he'd sort of almost drive along the highway, step out to one side, Max would get in, he'd be driving.
34:31
Greg would go in the back, take his phone call with whichever team owner.
34:35
You all right, Greg?
34:35
How's it going?
34:37
Oh yeah, yeah, good, good.
34:38
How'd it go?
34:39
Oh, fine, fine.
34:40
Who was that?
34:40
Oh, mate, you know.
34:43
Then my phone would ring.
34:45
I'd go in the back, oh hey, and I was trying to do a deal.
34:47
I think I was trying to extend my contract with Barry at the time.
34:51
We'd have a discussion, come back.
34:53
How's it going?
34:53
Everyone's fine.
34:54
Yeah, everyone's good.
34:55
Everyone's at home.
34:55
Yeah, yeah, I suppose.
34:56
It's my mum.
34:57
Yeah, she's fine.
34:58
Then Max would phone a drink and he was trying to do some deal and it just, it was so convoluted, but we had these rules.
35:05
that we would never discuss our business.
35:08
We never talked about setups.
35:09
We never gave away secrets.
35:11
We never talked about our business.
35:14
Just had fun.
35:16
We just had fun.
35:17
And you know, that trip to Australia that we did in 98, that was one of the happiest times I can ever remember.
35:25
You know, Greg's great friend, Al Robbie, came down as well and we just messed around.
35:29
And it was, yeah, it was so much fun.
35:33
But,
35:35
then you got on the track and it was work, it was business.
35:39
Yeah.
35:39
I want to bring that sense of mateship back to the Australian connections again for a second.
35:44
And that is a connection for you and your brother for that matter with James Courtney, good mates.
35:49
And you got to drive for Dick Johnson Racing in 2010 on the Gold Coast in the supercars.
35:54
Did you, what was that like for you?
35:56
And was Bathurst in the grand scheme of things something that you would love to have ticked at some stage?
36:02
Yeah, that was,
36:03
That was really cool.
36:06
The original plan was that I was going to drive with James in his car, but the things didn't work out that way.
36:15
I had so much fun.
36:18
God, the car was, it was the most infuriating thing to drive.
36:21
It was such a peculiar style.
36:24
And I loved the challenge of it.
36:30
I guess my big memory of that,
36:33
A couple of those was Paul Morris trying to dry the track using his helicopter at Ipswich.
36:41
But yeah, that was, that didn't work.
36:45
At the start of the race, so I haven't done a standing start since 1994.
36:51
and I'm on the grid sitting there and I pull first and I take off and I was like I'm passing people this is amazing and I've passed Dixon who's I was in the Jim Beam car he was in the Jack Daniels car so I'm going well I don't pass them laughing it's like gotcha come to the first corner of that hairpin
37:09
And all hell's broken loose.
37:10
I think Jacques and I think Will got together and one of the cars is lying in the middle of the track with maybe one corner left on it.
37:19
So I've nosed up to this car.
37:20
I'm like, ah, crap.
37:21
So hit reverse, reverse back and smashed straight into a car that's behind me.
37:28
I look in the mirror and there's Dixon going.
37:30
What are you doing?
37:36
Exactly.
37:38
So, ach, it was a lot of fun.
37:41
Didn't do particularly well, but I had a great time and loved any time I can get to hang out with Courtney.
37:48
It's so much fun.
37:49
I've known him since he was a little boy or teenager.
37:53
You know, when he raced, I think we first met in Paris
37:57
when we were doing the go-kart race, and he, him and Marino and Pat Long and that whole group were as tight as you like.
38:02
You know, they would come up to Scotland and they would stay in my house.
38:05
I'd be living in America and they'd stay in my house and I'd get this, we're gonna stay in your house.
38:10
And I'm thinking, oh God.
38:11
Well, for my mum, I'd say,
38:14
Mum, mum, please, please, please go over to the house, make sure the garage is locked, hide the keys.
38:21
Don't worry about the booze or anything, just hide the keys of the garage because those lunatics will decide it's a good idea to take one of the cars out.
38:29
Um...
38:31
Actually, there's another story with that.
38:33
So I was a Honda driver for most of my IndyCar career, and they would give me a car in the UK.
38:39
It was an Accord Type R. Did you guys have that with a big wing?
38:41
Yeah, yeah, beautiful.
38:43
So I would use that when I was at home.
38:45
Anyway, Marino and James were in Scotland and decided they were taking it out.
38:51
And I get this phone call from my mum.
38:54
Marino's too scared to call you.
38:56
There's been a bit of an accident.
38:57
Yeah.
39:00
What happened, Mum?
39:02
Oh, him and James.
39:04
So as soon as I hear that, the sirens are going off.
39:07
Him and James were driving along and they got forced off the road by a lady in a minivan.
39:18
Okay.
39:18
How's the car?
39:19
Oh, it's destroyed.
39:20
Destroyed.
39:21
Yeah, it was completely broken.
39:23
I phoned Honda.
39:24
They're sending a new one.
39:26
They're not very happy.
39:27
So eventually, phone Marino, he's telling me this whole convoluted story.
39:31
Years later, I get the whole story.
39:34
There was a humpback bridge that Marino used to use in his younger days and see how far he could jump his car.
39:41
So he thought, this Accord Type R's getting a bit more poke than the stuff I've been driving.
39:46
Let's see how far we can do it.
39:47
So they're belting along.
39:49
And he sort of turns to James and goes, watch this.
39:52
And they've taken off.
39:54
And he's gone, oh, shit.
39:58
So of course he's jumped out the throttle.
40:00
The thing's gone, boom.
40:03
Nosedive.
40:04
Nosedive, front subframe, everything gone, destroyed.
40:10
And that's when they came up with this ridiculous story.
40:12
So JC, if you're watching, you owe me a few beers.
40:18
Kids do not try this at home.
40:20
Very cool.
40:21
No, exactly.
40:22
Let's go with another friend as well from the Gold Coast.
40:27
That is Mick Dooh.
40:27
And you may remember, we actually did a side story for one quick second.
40:30
We did a boat trip with he, Darrell Beattie and a few others out to Morton Island at one stage.
40:37
And I think Mick had what was called a skater back then.
40:40
And I recall looking across at you and the pair of us, like our faces were quivering like you were doing a parachute jump, you know, it was a...
40:49
I remember that bloody boat.
40:51
Oh, it's hilarious.
40:52
It was hilarious.
40:53
But where I'm going here is two wheels, mate.
40:56
And that is, you have a little bit of a fondness for two wheels.
41:01
And as you shared in your Instagram story very, very recently, it was also one that had kind of frightening consequences for you too.
41:09
What happened?
41:11
Yeah.
41:13
Well, I'll go back a second.
41:15
I mean, who doesn't want to be McDoan or Barry Sheen?
41:19
Exactly.
41:20
You know, I was so fortunate that these guys became my friends.
41:25
But there is still a massive amount of hero worship there.
41:29
Yeah.
41:30
And we actually did a trip up in the
41:35
in the hills above surfers, we took some bikes, make organized for us.
41:39
Back in 2000, we did a bit of a trip and that was a lot of fun.
41:45
But so that was actually when I ordered the bike that I broke my back on.
41:50
It was a Senna, wasn't it?
41:51
Was it a Senna?
41:51
What did you buy?
41:52
It was a Senna, yeah.
41:53
I mean, we were at, what's his name of the bike dealership?
41:57
Oh, with Paul Feeney on the Gold Coast.
41:58
With Feeney, yeah.
41:59
I was going to say Feeney.
42:00
It was Feeney's place.
42:02
And he's like, look at this boy.
42:03
Saw this at the bike show, this MV Senna.
42:05
And Montoya and I are both going, gotta have.
42:09
Gotta have that.
42:10
So I got one.
42:12
And I was up in Scotland.
42:14
I was on my way to the race in Japan.
42:16
I'd stopped off from the US, had a week off.
42:19
And I was, Merino had just picked up a little 600RR Honda.
42:25
And I was riding along on it.
42:26
And the, so what had happened, the MV had sent some go faster bits for it.
42:37
which was very nice of them.
42:39
But the dealership that fitted them, they left an O-ring, actually crimped an O-ring.
42:43
I've got pictures of it on my phone because of the insurance claim afterwards.
42:46
But, and it sprayed oil on the back tire, and I went off and I landed in the back of my head and broke my spine.
42:53
So that was, that was very, I was really lucky.
43:00
I remember McCray, I phoned McCray from hospital to tell him what had happened.
43:04
He's like, oh God.
43:06
And I think Mick had some choice words too.
43:10
Good to have mates.
43:12
Yeah, exactly.
43:17
That's the end of part one of my chat with Indianapolis Motor Speedway and American Motorsport Hall of Famer Dario Franchitti.
43:25
Probably should clarify that when we referenced Max in that fun motorhome story, it was Max Pappas, a former F1 driver and champ car race winner.
43:34
And when he mentioned Ashley, that's his former wife, Hollywood actress Ashley Judd.
43:39
Head back to the library now and fire up part two where we talk a little about Bathurst, his rivalry with Aussie willpower, the IndyCar crash that thwarted plans for a move to sports cars with Porsche, and a whole lot more.
43:53
Listener.