Latest / Yes And Land / The Great Mouse Detective and Leading Without Ego | Marianne Johansen on Authentic Leadership

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The Great Mouse Detective and Leading Without Ego | Marianne Johansen on Authentic Leadership · Yes And Land

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  I will tell you, I got tricked into going into
• 0:02
  administration. It was never in my game plan.
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  You got tricked? Who tricked you? A week later,
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  the world shut down and I was a first year principal
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  trying to figure out how to like make people
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  wear masks and do contact tracing. And it was,
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  it was crazy. It was crazy. And I was also pregnant
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  with my first child. Dr. Watson and Sherlock
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  Holmes do find this way to really counterbalance.
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  Everybody sees. Columns is a brilliant guy, but
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  in reality, he had to have the grounding nature
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  of Dr. Watson to really be able to make it work.
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  I think ego gets in the way and we try to call
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  ourselves a mouse when we're a rat. If you're
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  a rat, it's okay to be a rat, right? It just
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  is. But sometimes that's hard. Sometimes it's
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  hard to accept our shortcomings. Sometimes it's
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  hard to accept who we are. I wasn't prepared
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  for the level of which parents would push back.
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  When I felt like I was trying to help their kid,
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  our scores have increased beyond anything I ever
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  even thought possible. I wouldn't treat them
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  for anything. Welcome to Yes and Land, where
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  we say yes to the reality of yesterday and today.
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  And we say and to the possibility, growth, and
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  imagination of tomorrow. Welcome, everybody,
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  to another episode of Yes, Anlan. We are very
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  excited today to be joined by a bit of a star,
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  I'm going to say, in Jordan School District,
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  amongst the principals in Jordan School District.
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  Marianne is well known for her skills in entertainment
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  with students in the past, with, well, really
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  still the students, but in a much broader scale
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  because now she's a principal. And we will hopefully
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  get to hear a little bit of that a little bit
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  later, which is some freestyle rapping. Very
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  excited about this, right? Because Lin -Manuel
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  Miranda is one of my favorites. And boy, that
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  guy can do a freestyle rap. Amen. Like he is
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  incredible at it. So we're very excited to hear
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  a little bit more about Marianne's story of kind
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  of how she got into teaching and education. a
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  story of how she got into administration and
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  to being a principal and we're going to look
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  at a lot of this stuff through the lens of the
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  great mouth detective yes which is um boy it's
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  a little known gem because as i was going back
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  in the annals of my brain i don't think i ever
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  actually watched it before no i don't think i
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  did because like it came out and i would have
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  been relatively young and it didn't do amazing
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  in the box office And so I've actually watched
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  it twice since we first talked. Okay. Because
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  I watched it the first time and I was like, I
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  don't think I saw this. And I was like, okay,
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  now I watch it with my kids now. So now I watch
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  it and I'm like, I actually really like this
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  little flick here. This is a good little gem.
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  Yeah. So we're going to be talking about that.
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  And we're going to look at just some life lessons
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  that we can pull from it. Where maybe it'll be
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  lit where you stand. maybe it'll be something
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  different. That's our topic today. We're going
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  to kind of see. We want to kind of see how this
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  plays out, Marianne. So I'm very excited. I'm
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  excited to see how this conversation organically
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  evolves to fit. And I might have to take my notes
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  and just throw them right out. And that's okay.
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  Because we can freestyle the conversation as
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  well. And the rap. And the rap. The rap freestyle
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  probably won't come from me. But it can come
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  from you. As long as I don't have to sing, then
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  maybe it's okay, right? I can, you know, I guess
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  I can rap. I can talk. Yeah. Yeah. That's why
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  I like some of Lin -Manuel's stuff that he's
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  done with Disney, because you're welcome. You
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  don't really have to sing to sing that song,
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  because you can just rap it. And it's just totally
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  fine. I intentionally, when I write my raps that
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  I perform for my kids, I intentionally choose
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  songs where I don't have to worry about the pitch.
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  Because although I have a vocal background, it's
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  too much. But I'm trying to spit out all the
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  words, and I usually finish writing it at 1 a
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  .m. the night before. I just thought... that's
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  a component that i don't need to work in and
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  so i intentionally choose songs that are pretty
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  like vocally flat that totally makes sense yeah
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  i uh a number of years ago at a prior job i had
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  tried to write rewrite words that were for this
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  meeting for some of my teammates okay uh with
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  uh a song from tangled and now now the name's
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  escaping me what's the one that she's in the
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  snuggly duckling I've got a dream. I've got a
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  dream. That's what it was. Because, you know,
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  in that one, like, you don't really have to sing,
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  have to sing. Like, you can kind of talk, sing
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  it, you know? So I was like, you know, I could
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  probably make this one happen, right? I'm going
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  to have kind of the gruff voice, right? Yeah.
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  So, yeah. So, I mean, I'm with you there. Okay.
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  Parodies are such a great way to, like, teach
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  and get your message across, you know? See, I
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  love this. You're so right. And I've been talking
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  with a number of people recently about how we
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  learn. and how we can make learning more fun
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  and more entertaining. We should. And, you know,
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  we should connect you with too is Dr. Disneyland.
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  Dr. Disneyland, his name is Jeff Barnes. He originated
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  and taught the only course at the collegiate
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  level on the history of Disneyland. And he's
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  all about like finding entertainment in the way
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  that you teach. It's phenomenal. Get connected
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  with him. And I am all for it. I think that there
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  are so many ways that we can make learning more
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  fun. If I had a tagline that I wanted to live
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  and die by, that I would want people to remember
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  me by, it would be that rigor should be fun and
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  fun should be rigorous. And that's kind of the
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  mantra that I embrace at my school is that, you
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  know. Einstein actually said, creativity is intelligence
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  having fun. My favorite Einstein quote. That's
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  a good one. So it's a good one. Yeah. But yes,
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  when kids are engaged and having fun, they are
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  learning more and at higher levels. What's your
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  opinion about, which I think we're going to vary.
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  I know, we're already. So what's your opinion
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  about attention span? A lot of people are saying
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  right now that kids have. worse attention spans
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  that's what they're saying people think it and
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  some of the studies aren't necessarily backing
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  that up but i want to see i want to hear what
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  your opinion is about kids attention because
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  you're seeing kids yeah every single day and
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  how how that attention span plays into their
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  ability to learn in school right what's your
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  what's your take um again it's are you prepared
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  and is your content interesting to kids. Kids
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  can pay attention. I think this gets blamed on
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  video games and YouTube. But if you think about
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  it, kids will play the same video game for hours
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  and hours and hours. It's not the attention span
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  that's the issue. It's what they're interested
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  in is shifting. I have a lot of areas that I
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  could grow professionally and in every area of
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  my life, but I I can command a group of 350 kids
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  for 45 minutes without any problem. It's an entertainment
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  component, right? I'm sticking it in front of
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  adults and it's an entirely different story.
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  But if you want me to entertain kids, we had
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  the national chair of the art council visit my
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  school from Washington, D .C. this year. And
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  we had, it was kind of a last minute thing. We
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  prepped this whole assembly. And she was at an
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  event up at the Capitol and wound up being delayed
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  by, like, 25 minutes. We had to postpone the
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  assembly. The kids were sitting there. They were
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  waiting. It was packed. It was May. It was the
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  end of the year. You know what I mean? Like,
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  it was zero issues. Like, you know, I stood up.
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  I told some jokes. We, like, talked a little
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  bit. Like, kids can do it. They can do it. You
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  have to make them want to. Yeah. Which that I
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  think has been a little bit of a mind shift,
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  right? I think there was a time where you were
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  just expected to sit in your desk and be quiet.
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  And those days are definitely gone. For sure.
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  But you can get kids' attention for a long time
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  if you do it the right way. That's exactly right.
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  You know, it's interesting that you've keyed
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  off on that. I was just listening to some material
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  by Adam Grant. I love it. okay he's amazing right
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  he's very research -based like he's going to
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  pull in studies and pull in research and he has
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  very strong opinions about this and uh what his
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  opinions are based in the research is that when
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  you look at adults and children's attention spans
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  from 30 years ago 20 years ago 10 years ago and
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  now it's not actually any different it hasn't
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  gotten worse it's just what keeps them entertained
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  for longer Because he brought exactly the thing
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  that you did. If a kid can sit there and play
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  a video game for 14 hours straight, we don't
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  have an attention span problem. That's not the
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  problem. If a kid can binge a season of Netflix
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  that's 10 episodes long and watch the entire
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  thing in one sitting, we don't have an attention
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  span problem. We have an entertainment problem.
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  What's going to keep their attention? And that
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  does up the ante a little bit. It may be a little
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  bit harder to keep their attention. But I like
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  what you said, right? Like it's fun is rigorous.
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  Rigorous is fun and fun is rigorous. Fun should
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  be rigor and rigor should be fun. Yeah. And so
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  it takes effort to get there. But it's, I mean,
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  it isn't easy. You definitely have clearly a
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  natural ability, right? To entertain kids for
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  that long. Some people have to work at it a little
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  bit more like, but they should. Yes. Because
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  we need to keep their attention. I love this.
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  And they deserve that. They do. They deserve
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  to be taught in a way that they can learn. Yeah.
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  Yeah. So interesting. Okay. Okay. So that was
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  a fun detour. That was. You might take a few
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  more though. We used to do a whole different
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  podcast just on my philosophy of like arts and
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  education and how we can help kids learn. Well,
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  I think we're going to pull something into that.
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  Okay. I think we are. I would love that. So let's
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  go to your background. Yeah. So you get into
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  education. Was that something that you always
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  wanted to do? Was it something you fell into?
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  Like, tell me about that journey to getting to
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  be an educator. It was something I always wanted
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  to do. I dabbled in some other ideas. I was like,
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  maybe child psychology. There was marine biologists
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  for a little bit. I think every kid goes through
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  that. If you go to SeaWorld. A little George
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  Costanza? Yeah. And then there was architecture.
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  Art Mandalay. All right, here we go. We're aging
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  ourselves a little bit. We're 90s kids, clearly.
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  No, I think. I just don't ever know that I thought
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  there was a different option. I think I thought,
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  well, I can be a teacher. I can be a nurse. My
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  mom was a nurse, is a nurse. Which is a noble
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  profession. And she's amazing at it. She's very
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  good at it. I didn't like blood and was more
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  on the queasy side. So I was like, that's not
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  for me. That's not my thing. And so, yeah, I
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  think too, I just, and this is kind of where
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  I think. I really started to connect with this
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  movie on a different level when I was watching
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  it again through this lens is that our things
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  don't always work out the way that they're supposed
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  to, but you lift where you stand and you do what
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  you can with the resources that you have and
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  you connect with your people and things work
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  out for the best. And so I, I think in my head,
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  I mean, I grew up in Magna and I think in my
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  very naive brain I was like yeah you know we'll
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  graduate from college and then I'll teach for
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  a couple of years and then I'm like gonna stay
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  home and and get married and have seven kids
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  and like raise all of them to be amazing humans
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  and that's gonna be my life and so I don't think
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  I ever considered it as a long -term profession
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  I never saw myself being in this career for a
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  long period of time and so Yeah, after I had
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  been teaching for a couple of years, I started
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  to think, well, there's a whole world of opportunity
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  out there. I don't know why I never explored
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  it before, but I want to explore it now. And
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  so I did. I decided I was going to go to law
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  school and went down that path. And that didn't
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  work out. And, you know, I didn't meet my husband
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  until I was 29. And I could not be more grateful
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  that my life has turned out the way it has. Which
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  is very normal. Very normal. Except in Utah,
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  not as normal. But actually, I met my wife when
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  she was 29, and she had never been married. Oh,
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  really? Oh, that's fun. Absolutely. Okay. I know,
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  right? I know. You guys need to, like, get connected,
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  right? Yeah, we need to be friends. Yeah. So
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  when you were originally kind of deciding this
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  education thing, was it that you knew you wanted
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  to do elementary? You did elementary school?
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  Or did you do something else? I did elementary
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  school, although when I first decided I was going
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  to go into teaching, My first declared major
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  was actually a math teacher, a high school math
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  teacher. Oh, you like math? No, I don't. Oh,
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  well, actually, maybe that helps. Yeah, math
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  was difficult for me. Yeah, so that's probably
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  why you'd be a good teacher. And yes, and that
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  is what my AP statistics teacher told me when
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  she was convincing me to. become a math teacher
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  is you know i said i'm not good at this this
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  is a struggle for me and she said that's why
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  you'd be good at teaching it because you get
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  why kids don't get it um and so that's kind of
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  where i started and then where did you do your
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  undergrad uh utah state oh like the place to
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  go for uh education especially elementary education
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  where my sister went oh and it's like good for
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  her super it is yes it's i mean like top west
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  of the mississippi even um so yeah in fact i
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  also did my my graduate degree there so i double
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  dipped what was your graduate degree in uh uh
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  educational leadership okay yeah amazing yes
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  and that in and of itself like i will tell i
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  will tell you i got tricked into going to into
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  administration it was never in my game plan you
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  got tricked who tricked you yes which is kind
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  of part of the story that is um thinking about
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  jumping into today so i so so let's let's take
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  a pause yeah okay give us the synopsis of the
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  great mouse detective because i'm guessing we're
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  going to layer in some stuff and because the
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  great mouse detective came out a little while
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  ago and maybe not everybody's seen it no we're
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  going to rely on the synopsis so i am okay buckled
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  up i'm ready to go yeah it's a very fringe disney
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  movie yes um but my kids love it which is kind
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  of why we decided on this show because it's it's
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  lesser known and my five and three -year -old
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  are obsessed with it and it deserves some attention
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  100 it does um so it's basically disney's spin
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  on um sherlock holmes and so it's placed in 1886
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  england and you have a toy maker and his daughter
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  who are just hoping to celebrate her birthday
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  quietly in their little toy shop and they are
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  interrupted by um the antagonist or i guess the
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  antagonist uh page boy who uh comes to kidnap
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  the toy maker for some nefarious plans that uh
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  radigan is the the moriarty of the story and
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  he has some various plans that he is putting
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  into motion and this very astute and tenacious
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  daughter who was left behind in this toy shop
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  um finds an article about this detective basil
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  of baker street right solves all the mysteries
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  and he's brilliant and so this little you know
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  she can't be more than five or six um this little
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  girl just takes off and and goes in search and
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  i mean she's a mouse right so the great mouse
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  detective so they're all they're all mice and
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  rodents in the movie um and they're all most
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  of them in this are mice the little page boy
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  meaning he's like a bat right and then rat again
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  is a rat and that's a thing He's mad about being
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  a mouse. He wants to be a mouse. That's right.
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  He has a complex about being a mouse. Totally
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  has this complex. It makes everybody lie about
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  it. Yes. Makes everyone call him a mouse. Yes.
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  And then she finds Basil of Baker Street and
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  on the way meets Dr. Watson. She actually gets
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  lost and is unsuccessful in finding and tracking
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  down Basil of Baker Street. Runs into Dr. Watson
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  and he helps her and they find him. you know,
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  convince him is a strong word. He doesn't want
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  to help. He doesn't want to help at all, right?
• 17:23
  No. In fact, he's like very much trying to brush
• 17:25
  her off and is not interested in her lost father.
• 17:29
  Until she mentions the bat. Yeah. And then he
• 17:33
  all of a sudden realizes that, oh, this could
• 17:35
  be an avenue in which I can finally beat Rattigan.
• 17:39
  Yes. And so then he's all in. and he's like fully
• 17:43
  committed but he doesn't want the girl to come
• 17:45
  so he tries to leave her behind and she is not
• 17:49
  one to be waylaid by intelligent detectives so
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  she um insists on accompanying him and he gives
• 17:58
  in um but then they go on this adventure where
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  they're trying to like track down this rat and
• 18:08
  they're essentially just trying to interrupt
• 18:10
  his plans or um ultimately you find out later
• 18:14
  in the movie um kidnapping the queen of england
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  who i mean the time period and everything it's
• 18:20
  supposed to be queen victoria right and it's
• 18:22
  her diamond jubilee and so they're kidnapping
• 18:25
  her and replacing her with a toy version hence
• 18:29
  the reason he needs the toy maker i mean spoiler
• 18:31
  alerts we don't we're not worried about so to
• 18:40
  create this toy it's an animatronic toy essentially
• 18:44
  that he can use to make it sound like the queen
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  of england is giving all of her power and signing
• 18:51
  over her job to him and letting him run the country
• 18:55
  and he has all of these um evil ideas you know
• 19:00
  or how he would run the country but he just he's
• 19:02
  power hungry and he just wants to be in charge
• 19:04
  and so um it's just kind of how they eventually
• 19:09
  you know succeed in this plan and of course they
• 19:14
  all live happily ever after because it's a disney
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  of course that's that's the way it has to work
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  right which is good it's a great synopsis and
• 19:21
  as we as we go there's a couple of quotes from
• 19:24
  it that that i'll plot at times uh to ask you
• 19:28
  about because there's some really interesting
• 19:29
  things that happen along that path that i think
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  play into this this idea that we're going to
• 19:36
  talk about lifting where you stand um playing
• 19:39
  your roles but also accepting when other people
• 19:42
  are and what that means so it'll be fun okay
• 19:45
  it'll be fun okay so now back to your story yes
• 19:48
  so you go to utah state you end up also doing
• 19:53
  graduate degree and then you get tricked and
• 19:56
  to become an administrator. So tell me more about
• 19:59
  that. So I had been teaching, I taught fifth
• 20:02
  and sixth grade. My first teaching job, oddly
• 20:05
  enough, was PE, which I graduated from college
• 20:10
  and then I actually served an LDS mission in
• 20:12
  Taiwan. And when I came back, it was January.
• 20:14
  It was the middle of the school year. The only
• 20:16
  teaching job available is PE. So I'm like, I
• 20:20
  can do that. And again, it was never my plan.
• 20:25
  but that's where i taught that's where i learned
• 20:28
  to entertain kids that's where i learned to master
• 20:31
  my classroom management and it's really where
• 20:34
  i learned to integrate um because i really wanted
• 20:37
  i was at a title in school so a very low income
• 20:39
  school and i just really wanted to help i wanted
• 20:43
  to feel like i was helping with the academic
• 20:46
  components and so um they would come to me and
• 20:50
  it was it was also a win -win right we would
• 20:53
  play you know you get out those little scooters
• 20:55
  and they'd have like this the squishy foam balls
• 20:58
  or whatever and i put up goals and and we'd play
• 21:00
  these games but you want to work on passing and
• 21:04
  you want to work on teamwork and you want to
• 21:05
  work on sportsmanship and so i would shoot the
• 21:07
  rules of the game to okay it's five points when
• 21:13
  you score a goal but you get three points every
• 21:16
  time you pass the ball before you score so every
• 21:18
  like continual so if you pass it five times and
• 21:21
  then you score a goal your team just earned 20
• 21:23
  points right and so then they were more inclined
• 21:27
  to pass the ball but i also made them keep track
• 21:29
  of points while they were passing so then you
• 21:32
  know i have third graders who are counting by
• 21:34
  threes which is part of their curriculum and
• 21:35
  so um i just really wanted to maximize their
• 21:38
  time with me and make sure that we were using
• 21:40
  it well and uh you know it was never my plan
• 21:44
  but it really kind of jump -started my teaching
• 21:49
  career into what it evolved into. So then I taught
• 21:52
  fifth and sixth grade for a few years, and then
• 21:54
  my school district started this program where
• 21:56
  they wanted to have teachers go and teach art,
• 22:00
  music, dance, drama to kids throughout the district.
• 22:05
  And so I got really excited. i'm a pianist i've
• 22:10
  taken piano lessons since i was five i took them
• 22:12
  until i became an administrator and so um my
• 22:15
  piano teacher is my second mom so shout out to
• 22:17
  cindy lambert she will always be cindy lambert
• 22:20
  so near and dear to my heart um and and like
• 22:24
  i said i also have some vocal training and so
• 22:26
  i applied for this job and was hired and i just
• 22:31
  fell in love with it it was like all of the best
• 22:33
  parts of teaching and none of the bad parts of
• 22:35
  teaching. And so I would go, I had four different
• 22:38
  schools and each day of the week I'd show up
• 22:40
  at my school and I'd have kids for 45 minutes
• 22:42
  and I would do these lessons where again. I wanted
• 22:45
  to feel like I was contributing to their academic
• 22:48
  success. And so everything I taught was integrated.
• 22:52
  And we, you know, it might be math, it might
• 22:55
  be language arts, it might be whatever, science,
• 22:57
  but it was all integrated. And I did that for
• 23:00
  a year. And after my first year, our supervisor
• 23:05
  asked if I would take over leading that charge.
• 23:10
  And so essentially managing the program. And
• 23:14
  so I, of course, agreed. And I moved into my
• 23:19
  little district office cubicle. And I still got
• 23:22
  to teach three days a week. And then I had two
• 23:25
  days at the district office to mentor and coach
• 23:28
  and run the program. And so I would set up our
• 23:31
  master schedule. And when teachers were struggling,
• 23:33
  I would go out and help with them. And every
• 23:35
  Friday, I had to put together a three -hour professional
• 23:37
  development to help make sure that my teachers
• 23:40
  were doing the best job that they could do. um
• 23:44
  i loved it it was like so fun and so after about
• 23:49
  a year of this my boss said people who work in
• 23:53
  my department have master's degrees and i said
• 23:56
  it's always been on my radar i just can't decide
• 23:58
  on which one i want and she said you need to
• 24:01
  get an administration because it opens the most
• 24:04
  doors and i said okay like that that makes sense
• 24:08
  it does um and she said plus like i think i think
• 24:12
  it would be good for what you're doing right
• 24:14
  like you're essentially she kept telling me you're
• 24:15
  just you're already doing the job you're already
• 24:17
  doing that gotcha and so i was like yeah i love
• 24:21
  this so i went into administration and she just
• 24:23
  kept saying like you're doing it you're doing
• 24:25
  it you're doing it and so she convinced me to
• 24:28
  apply to the admin pool and i was hired keeping
• 24:36
  in mind my entire experience was elementary And
• 24:39
  I was hired to be an assistant principal at junior
• 24:42
  high. And you're the living daylights out of
• 24:46
  me. It's challenging. Like I can do this. Yeah.
• 24:48
  No, I love this. I love it. And like the first
• 24:54
  week of that job, I was like, why have I done?
• 25:00
  This is so hard. And I hated it. It was so difficult.
• 25:05
  My boss, oddly enough, retired. the same time
• 25:08
  that I left the district office to go out and
• 25:11
  do admin work. And she called me like in October
• 25:14
  and she said, so how's it going? And I said,
• 25:18
  it's really hard. I mean, I didn't want to be
• 25:20
  a total baby about it. So I just said, you know,
• 25:22
  it's really, really hard. And she said, oh, I
• 25:25
  know I hated being a principal. It was the worst
• 25:27
  job I ever had. And I said, what, why did you
• 25:31
  do it? do it and she just laughed and she said
• 25:33
  oh I knew it would be good for you and I knew
• 25:35
  you'd be good at it you needed to do this and
• 25:37
  I was so mad at her I was so mad at her I was
• 25:40
  like I had this job that I loved it was the perfect
• 25:43
  fit for me I was doing everything I possibly
• 25:45
  could have wanted and you convinced me to come
• 25:48
  do this thing that is awful like all i do is
• 25:51
  like break up fights and take away marijuana
• 25:53
  and call angry parents and like deal with teachers
• 25:55
  who are annoyed like there is nothing fun about
• 25:57
  this so um but we powered through and i did that
• 26:03
  job for three years and i cried at least once
• 26:08
  a week bless my husband's heart i mean we were
• 26:11
  fairly newlywed at that point um during that
• 26:16
  during that time what was what was the hardest
• 26:20
  thing the conflict okay i tend to be like a very
• 26:26
  positive person i don't like conflicts um i wasn't
• 26:32
  prepared for the level of like the minutes which
• 26:42
  parents would push back when i felt like i was
• 26:45
  trying to help their kid Um, the first time I
• 26:48
  called a parent because I found marijuana in
• 26:51
  her child's backpack, um, and had talked to him
• 26:54
  and he had broken down and told me that he was
• 26:57
  feeling depressed. And that was the only thing
• 26:58
  that helped. And, you know, um, and I called
• 27:02
  the mom and just said, Hey, you just found marijuana
• 27:03
  in your son's backpack. And she immediately was
• 27:05
  just like, how do you know it's his, you don't
• 27:07
  know that it's, I mean, she's got very defensive.
• 27:09
  And I said, he admitted to me that it was his.
• 27:13
  really struggling with depression and like really
• 27:14
  has a hard time. And I said, I need you to come
• 27:17
  down and give him. And she was like, I'm at work.
• 27:18
  I can't come get him, call somebody else. And
• 27:20
  I was just like, and I'm sitting there thinking
• 27:23
  if someone had called my mom when I was in junior
• 27:25
  high and told her that they found marijuana in
• 27:27
  my backpack, it would have been a very different
• 27:29
  experience. Right. Um, but I was, I was dealing
• 27:33
  with, um, people who were carrying things that
• 27:36
  I knew nothing about and I was not prepared for
• 27:39
  the level of emotion and anger. that came with
• 27:43
  that um and i was also wholly unprepared for
• 27:48
  the awful things that kids both experience and
• 27:52
  get into at that age um and it was very eye -opening
• 27:56
  yeah yeah what was what was the the way through
• 28:02
  what got you through that when you're experiencing
• 28:04
  these really hard things um i mean there would
• 28:07
  be these fleeting moments right where i would
• 28:11
  build these relationships with kids and that
• 28:13
  was the one part i did like about it um is i
• 28:18
  would see kids in the hallway crying or i would
• 28:21
  just know that they were having these struggles
• 28:23
  and i did to some degree have the time to like
• 28:28
  bring them in my office and have a real conversation
• 28:31
  about it you don't have that luxury when you're
• 28:32
  a teacher right there are 30 other kids who need
• 28:34
  your attention right then and so um i remember
• 28:39
  it was the first day of school and i was walking
• 28:41
  down the hall and i just saw this poor little
• 28:42
  seventh grader with like tears streaming down
• 28:44
  his cheeks and i just said we went into my office
• 28:48
  and he just cried and he was like i'm so scared
• 28:50
  i miss elementary school you know and i was like
• 28:53
  oh i can i can really kind of dig down and and
• 28:58
  help kids on a different level and in a different
• 29:00
  way than i was trying to help them when i was
• 29:02
  a classroom teacher yeah what do you what do
• 29:05
  you feel like your your biggest takeaways were
• 29:09
  in growth that you experienced in that that provided
• 29:14
  you a better baseline for when you became a principal
• 29:16
  yeah um i just think realizing i think teenagers
• 29:22
  get a bad rap yeah and i think that um i went
• 29:28
  in there thinking like they're all they're all
• 29:31
  just kind of like jerks and they all do whatever
• 29:34
  they want and i learned that they're such babies
• 29:37
  like they're so little and they're putting on
• 29:41
  these like tough fronts but really they just
• 29:43
  they just want to be loved and most of the kids
• 29:46
  that are causing them really hard things don't
• 29:49
  feel loved um or have had life experiences that
• 29:54
  have really kicked them into survival mode and
• 29:57
  they don't know what else to do um and so i just
• 30:03
  learned to listen and not jump to conclusions
• 30:07
  um and to just really love them in a different
• 30:12
  way and at a different level and now when i see
• 30:15
  teenagers like you know on the streets or at
• 30:18
  the movies like i'm just like hey what's up and
• 30:21
  usually they're very friendly like they can look
• 30:24
  really tough but they're usually very friendly
• 30:27
  I love them. I think a lot of it too is just
• 30:31
  if you bring the assumption that they're going
• 30:33
  to be terrible and bad and you bring that to
• 30:35
  the interaction, it's going to be in part of
• 30:38
  self -fulfilling prophecy because you're going
• 30:40
  to bring that kind of energy to the conversation
• 30:41
  as well. So you did that for three years. And
• 30:45
  then what was the next step? And then I was appointed
• 30:46
  to be a principal. I got appointed at a board
• 30:50
  meeting on like March, I don't know, 7th, 8th,
• 30:53
  somewhere in there of 2020. Oh, no way. Yeah.
• 30:59
  Holy Toledo. We were just starting to hit it
• 31:02
  at that point. It was like a week before the
• 31:05
  world shut down. And so, I mean, right, you finish
• 31:09
  out your year. So I was finishing the year at
• 31:11
  the junior high before I really jumped into this.
• 31:14
  And yeah, a week later, the world shut down.
• 31:17
  And I was a first year principal trying to figure
• 31:21
  out how to like make people wear masks and do
• 31:23
  contact tracing. And it was. it was crazy. It
• 31:27
  was crazy. Where was that first gig? Um, and
• 31:31
  I was also pregnant with my first child. Oh man.
• 31:36
  So yeah, that is complex. Yes. Which again, back
• 31:43
  to my best laid plans. Right. So, okay. The plan
• 31:47
  was to like get married and have a million kids.
• 31:49
  And then I got married at 29 and I'm sorry. I
• 31:53
  got married at 31. We met at 29. And, um, after
• 31:57
  I did my first year at the junior high, which
• 32:00
  was really an intern year, right. I was like,
• 32:02
  okay, I get through this. Like we're going to
• 32:05
  have baby I'll quit. And then like, we didn't
• 32:08
  have baby. And again, looking back, like the
• 32:12
  junior high was not the right time for me. Like
• 32:16
  I've, I've rarely ate. There's just too much
• 32:20
  going on. Um, I think trying to like successfully
• 32:23
  complete a pregnancy. being a junior high assistant
• 32:25
  principal like shout out to anyone that's done
• 32:27
  it i don't know how you could possibly like the
• 32:29
  level of stress the level of everything else
• 32:31
  so um it was again not my plan but it that's
• 32:37
  how that's how the cookie crumbled and it all
• 32:39
  worked out um so yeah i was pregnant with my
• 32:41
  first child and was sick the entire nine months
• 32:44
  um and i'm like a first year principal trying
• 32:47
  to figure this out there was only one other person
• 32:49
  in my entire district that was a first year principal
• 32:51
  that same year and so i mean we really kind of
• 32:54
  leaned happily on each other um but that was
• 32:58
  i mean it was wild yeah it was wild because there's
• 33:01
  not nobody could prepare you for that because
• 33:03
  no one had ever experienced that before so it's
• 33:05
  not like you could go lean on somebody else that
• 33:07
  could help you navigate it they're just trying
• 33:09
  to figure it out too it's so hard yeah And I
• 33:13
  mean, everybody had different ideas. It was just,
• 33:15
  it was a very, it was crazy. How long did you
• 33:18
  need to be in that school? Just that one year.
• 33:20
  Just that one year. So again, like your best
• 33:24
  laid plans, which is funny because at the very
• 33:26
  beginning of the movie, like I said, as I was
• 33:29
  watching it through this lens, Dr. Watson, when
• 33:31
  it introduces him, he's like riding, he's like
• 33:34
  basically riding the rails, but in a carriage,
• 33:37
  right? Because he's a mouse. you see like the
• 33:39
  people that are driving in the people carriage
• 33:41
  and he's like on some little i don't know something
• 33:45
  that swings underneath the carriage and he's
• 33:47
  he's narrating the movie right and so he's like
• 33:50
  i just finished you know service and this and
• 33:54
  the her majesty 66th regimen and i was just coming
• 33:57
  back and he doesn't use the word deployment but
• 33:59
  essentially that's what he's coming yeah and
• 34:02
  he's like i'm just looking to find some quiet
• 34:07
  and a peaceful place where i can just you know
• 34:10
  do my own thing and he had these these plans
• 34:13
  and then he runs into this little girl and gets
• 34:15
  thrown into this adventure like he didn't mean
• 34:17
  to and so i again remember i hate administration
• 34:21
  like it's not it's not fun and so when i um found
• 34:27
  out i was pregnant with my daughter i was like
• 34:30
  sweet this might take it out of dodge like nobody
• 34:33
  is going to judge me if i walk away from this
• 34:35
  profession to raise my baby Um, and that was
• 34:38
  like, I was just like, no, I'm going to quit.
• 34:42
  And this is how I get out. Um, and then I started
• 34:46
  talking and I was like, I mean, I already have
• 34:50
  like, you know, 12 years in a profession that
• 34:55
  offers pensions. Um, and so I said, I just want
• 34:59
  to be able to at least keep my foot in the door.
• 35:01
  Maybe I should look at a halftime. contract somewhere
• 35:04
  well the school district i was in at the time
• 35:07
  didn't offer half -time administrative contracts
• 35:10
  but the neighboring school district did and so
• 35:13
  i submitted an application there really kind
• 35:16
  of thinking i was still just going to quit and
• 35:17
  stay home but i thought well like it'll be an
• 35:20
  option i just like to keep all the options open
• 35:23
  so i submitted my application and had my first
• 35:28
  interview and found out in said interview that
• 35:31
  they were opening an art integration magnet school
• 35:34
  and in in my in the district i was currently
• 35:39
  working in they have administrators for those
• 35:42
  types of schools slated out a year or two in
• 35:45
  advance and so i had zero expectation that there
• 35:48
  would be an administrative position available
• 35:50
  at this school um but i thought if maybe i got
• 35:54
  really really lucky i could be like a half -time
• 35:56
  assistant principal to supplement something there
• 35:58
  you know be involved in some way And what I didn't
• 36:03
  know behind the scenes is that one of my mentors,
• 36:05
  one of my main mentors, who had also oddly enough
• 36:08
  been my eighth grade history teacher in administration,
• 36:11
  was good friends with the superintendent. And
• 36:15
  I had no idea of any of this, but the superintendent
• 36:18
  called his friend and was like, hey, we just
• 36:21
  interviewed somebody from your school district
• 36:22
  who has an arts background. So tell me more about
• 36:26
  this connection. What are the names of these
• 36:28
  folks? Okay, so Bill Kenley. Okay. um was my
• 36:31
  eighth grade history teacher and then in the
• 36:33
  school district i was in um his his entire job
• 36:37
  he was the director of talent development so
• 36:39
  he recruited Potential administrators. Got it.
• 36:43
  You went through like a year, they called it
• 36:45
  the Emerging Leader Academy. So you went through
• 36:47
  a year of like evening classes, trainings where
• 36:49
  he would kind of, you know, build you up and
• 36:51
  get you ready to apply. And then once you were
• 36:54
  in, you had monthly meetings with him and his
• 36:58
  counterpart to like make sure that you were being
• 37:00
  supported and trained. I love that. Before we
• 37:04
  jump back in, can I ask you a quick favor? If
• 37:07
  you're enjoying the journey so far, will you
• 37:09
  like, rate, and subscribe to our show. It helps
• 37:13
  us reach more people like you. We can design
• 37:16
  and create and build the most wonderful place
• 37:18
  in the world, but it takes people to make the
• 37:21
  dream a reality. and so and i had no idea that
• 37:35
  he even knew anyone in jordan district um but
• 37:39
  he and the superintendent were college roommates
• 37:41
  and so oh is this is this dr godfrey okay do
• 37:46
  you know my connection to dr godfrey no i don't
• 37:49
  he was my eighth grade english teacher stop he
• 37:52
  absolutely was Like eighth grade was a big year
• 37:55
  because I had him as an English teacher. Okay.
• 37:58
  And then my history teacher was Mr. Coyle. Okay.
• 38:01
  And he had me do a mock trial and had me assigned
• 38:04
  as an attorney. And that is the reason I became
• 38:07
  an attorney. So eighth grade was a big year for
• 38:08
  me. And I still obviously have a good relationship
• 38:11
  with Dr. Godfrey. He's amazing. He is amazing.
• 38:14
  So he connects with Bill. Calls Bill and is like,
• 38:18
  hey, I just interviewed somebody and I had told
• 38:20
  nobody. and granted that i was even interviewed
• 38:22
  because i didn't yeah you know and so was bill
• 38:26
  like what are you doing bill calls me and i'm
• 38:30
  like where's bill camden calling me at 5 30 in
• 38:33
  the evening so i pick it up you know and he's
• 38:35
  just like so i know someone in jordan who mentioned
• 38:38
  the day and i and i start panicking oh yeah because
• 38:41
  i'm like who else knows who else knows he's like
• 38:43
  i really don't think anyone else knows and he
• 38:44
  didn't mention that the friend that he knew in
• 38:47
  jordan was the super like he didn't say anything
• 38:49
  no he left that out and so he said so just tell
• 38:57
  me i'm just trying to help you figure out like
• 38:59
  what you want you know i obviously i love granite
• 39:02
  but i just want people to be happy and so i just
• 39:05
  said bill i i'm expecting a baby i'm just trying
• 39:09
  to figure out what my life looks like and um
• 39:13
  he just kind of said so would you be interested
• 39:16
  in being connected to this art school? And I
• 39:19
  said, a hundred percent. I said, I know they
• 39:22
  probably already have their principal figured
• 39:23
  out, but if there's an AP position, you know,
• 39:25
  and he just said, okay, so that would, that would
• 39:28
  be like your favorite choice. And I said, for
• 39:31
  sure. And so in my second interview, that was
• 39:36
  when I mentioned the halftime thing. And they
• 39:39
  all kind of looked surprised. And I was like,
• 39:41
  you do offer halftime contracts, right? And they
• 39:43
  all just kind of said, yeah, no, we do. and what
• 39:48
  i didn't know is that they were already talking
• 39:50
  about offering me the position as the principal
• 39:54
  um and so in talking with bill he didn't tell
• 39:58
  me anything but he was just kind of like i think
• 40:00
  you need to be honest if you're really interested
• 40:02
  in this art school i think you need to be honest
• 40:04
  and so i called um who is now my boss her name
• 40:09
  is lisa and just said you know i know i said
• 40:12
  i was looking for half time i'm really looking
• 40:14
  for the right fit and Um, I mean, long story
• 40:19
  shorter, I guess, cause it's not short at this
• 40:21
  point, but they ended up offering me this position
• 40:24
  as the principal at this arts integration magnet
• 40:26
  school. And I just felt like it merged everything
• 40:32
  that I had ever wanted. Um, when I called my
• 40:36
  husband, I said, I, I feel like this is weird
• 40:39
  because I've just, I've tried to leave education
• 40:41
  so many times. Like I've, I tried to leave when
• 40:44
  I was like, going to law school i'm trying to
• 40:48
  leave now and i just feel like it's not the right
• 40:52
  thing for me um and then i told him i said they
• 40:55
  offered me the art school and he was just like
• 40:58
  you have talked about opening an art school since
• 41:01
  i met you you would be crazy to turn this down
• 41:04
  um so you know we thought about it for a few
• 41:07
  days but he was just like you you need to do
• 41:10
  this and so we're starting our sixth year um
• 41:14
  but even after i had my baby I was wholly unprepared
• 41:18
  for how difficult it would be to leave her. And
• 41:21
  so as my starting date loomed closer and closer,
• 41:26
  I just started thinking, how can I gracefully
• 41:29
  get out of this position that I have committed
• 41:32
  to? Like, how can I not do this job? Because
• 41:34
  I loved Granite. I loved being there. I knew
• 41:39
  everybody. I was friends with everybody. And
• 41:42
  I knew no one in Jordan. I didn't know a soul.
• 41:45
  And that was a really scary leap for me. And
• 41:48
  I didn't want to. And I just kept thinking, I
• 41:51
  just want to quit. And I just want to stay home
• 41:53
  with my baby. I didn't know what I was going
• 41:56
  to do for childcare. Three weeks before I went
• 41:59
  back to work, my mom had a neighbor who had a
• 42:04
  daughter with severe disabilities. When she was
• 42:07
  born, they told her she wouldn't live past the
• 42:09
  age of two. And she died at the age of 44. And
• 42:13
  her mom had cared for her all of these years.
• 42:16
  And after she passed away, she said to my mom,
• 42:19
  what's Marianne doing with her baby? And my mom
• 42:21
  said, she doesn't know. And she said, I need
• 42:25
  somebody to take care of. And so my child care
• 42:28
  fell into place, right? And so then I was like,
• 42:31
  okay, I can't blame it on child care. So it's
• 42:34
  all of these things. And I'm a very creative
• 42:38
  person. And I could not think of a way to get
• 42:41
  out of this job. So I started it. I ended up
• 42:44
  loving it. It's still really difficult. I tell
• 42:47
  my boss all the time, if they move me, then I'll
• 42:49
  just resign because I, in fact, still don't love
• 42:51
  being principal. It's still a lot of conflict.
• 42:55
  It's still a lot of hard conversations that keep
• 42:58
  me up at night and I stress about them and I
• 43:00
  worry about them. And I would be wholly unsuccessful
• 43:05
  at this job if I didn't work with the team that
• 43:08
  I do. But it's, again, a Title I school, very
• 43:12
  low income. Our scores have increased beyond
• 43:17
  anything I ever even thought possible. Our kids
• 43:20
  are learning. Our kids are happy. They're doing
• 43:22
  well. We're not perfect. But it is so invigorating
• 43:28
  to be part of something that really feels like
• 43:30
  it matters. And to be working with people who
• 43:33
  have different skills. And just like in the movie,
• 43:36
  right? it was funny you talked about attention
• 43:40
  spans because i have never seen someone with
• 43:42
  worse adhd than basil of baker street like he
• 43:44
  is oh yeah he's all over the place yeah and that
• 43:47
  is me right like i tell people all the time like
• 43:50
  this job will give you adhd whether you had it
• 43:52
  or not before you started it will give you adhd
• 43:54
  because there are always a million problems that
• 43:55
  you're juggling um and so as i'm watching it
• 43:58
  i'm like that's that's me like i'm that guy i'm
• 44:01
  like all over the place you think i'm not paying
• 44:04
  attention but then like i'll have observations
• 44:06
  but also like nothing is organized like i rely
• 44:10
  on my team for that my team executes so many
• 44:13
  things um but yeah so when you when you think
• 44:16
  about that with um like the the moving when we
• 44:20
  look at the dynamic that they had right with
• 44:23
  basil and him kind of being over the map and
• 44:25
  him really needing um is it is it it's a take
• 44:31
  on watson right i'm trying to think what the
• 44:33
  is this his name yeah dr dawson awesome dr doctor
• 44:36
  right dr dawson doing that and then uh the little
• 44:40
  girl olivia right in in reality like the three
• 44:43
  of them together what make it happen uh basil
• 44:46
  could not have done it on his own and i do think
• 44:49
  it's a fun dynamic to see throughout all of sherlock
• 44:51
  holmes lore right that like dr watson and sherlock
• 44:54
  holmes do find this way to really counterbalance
• 44:56
  everybody sees Columns is a brilliant guy, but
• 44:59
  in reality, like he had to have the grounding
• 45:01
  nature of Dr. Watson to really be able to make
• 45:03
  it work. For you, you go, you step into this
• 45:05
  position in this, this, I mean, really kind of
• 45:09
  ideal situation, right? With being in our school.
• 45:12
  How was it difficult at all for you to find a
• 45:16
  way to trust your team to be able to offload
• 45:18
  things onto them? Did you feel like you had to
• 45:20
  hang on to things at first before you could?
• 45:23
  At first, at first, um, some things know, right.
• 45:27
  I have an instructional coach who, um, knows
• 45:31
  more about teaching kids to read than I will
• 45:33
  ever know. And so things like that, um, not at
• 45:37
  all. My other instructional coach is just, she's.
• 45:40
  an incredible executor and so sometimes i didn't
• 45:43
  even know i was delegating things to her i would
• 45:45
  like we would be meeting and i would say wouldn't
• 45:47
  it be cool if like this happened and the next
• 45:49
  thing i know she's created wouldn't it be cool
• 45:51
  if and she's like here's the system here's how
• 45:53
  it's gonna work and i would just kind of be like
• 45:55
  the thing that's been tricky for me is to um
• 45:59
  let go early enough coming full circle uh letting
• 46:05
  go of discipline has been really difficult for
• 46:07
  me. Letting my assistant principals take over
• 46:09
  discipline is really hard for me because I got
• 46:12
  so good at it. And so while I've had amazing
• 46:19
  assistant principals, that's one that's really
• 46:21
  difficult for me, especially if I have a relationship
• 46:23
  with the kid, right? Imagine your child does
• 46:26
  something dumb, like letting your neighbor handle
• 46:29
  that. that's that's some control that's difficult
• 46:34
  to let go of it's tough how have you navigated
• 46:37
  that is it because you know i think what's interesting
• 46:41
  about um schools and school districts and administration
• 46:45
  is there's lots of parallels to just business
• 46:47
  in general because the reality is in your role
• 46:50
  where you're needing to do certain things and
• 46:52
  have a certain role and needing to delegate that
• 46:55
  to other people there's tons of similarities
• 46:58
  when i look at pretty much any business, the
• 47:01
  owner of the business versus the people they're
• 47:03
  putting in place to help run certain things in
• 47:05
  the business. How have you navigated that when
• 47:08
  you do need to just trust them to go do it, but
• 47:13
  at times knowing you need to step in and coach
• 47:15
  them more and help them. So you don't go take
• 47:16
  over, right? Because that would be bad. Right.
• 47:19
  But then to coach them and know when to coach
• 47:20
  them in the right moments, when to coach or when
• 47:23
  just to let it happen. Yeah. And that's a very
• 47:25
  nuanced thing, especially when you're dealing
• 47:27
  with people's children. Oh, right. Especially
• 47:31
  when you're dealing with parents who may know
• 47:35
  me. Right. And now all of a sudden, like my assistant
• 47:38
  principal is calling them and they're new to
• 47:41
  the building or they don't have that previous
• 47:43
  relationship. And, you know, I've had. i've had
• 47:49
  assistant principals that were brand brand new
• 47:52
  that i've trained that's a little easier because
• 47:56
  then i can model the the strategies that i like
• 48:00
  and i can model that for them and then do a slow
• 48:03
  release um when i've had people who are a little
• 48:05
  bit more seasoned and and had kind of their own
• 48:09
  styles um i've just been really fortunate that
• 48:13
  they've all been really good so while it's difficult
• 48:15
  to let go um i have been able to like sometimes
• 48:21
  i have to just like ring my finger fingers under
• 48:23
  the table so i don't jump in right um but watch
• 48:26
  and then afterwards just kind of say i maybe
• 48:30
  would have said that or i maybe you know like
• 48:32
  just just a heads up i know you don't know this
• 48:35
  background about this student but you know yeah
• 48:37
  it's interesting as you're talking about that
• 48:40
  like we've got great attorneys here very very
• 48:43
  good uh practitioners I get referrals. I've been
• 48:47
  doing this a long time. So I'll get referrals.
• 48:48
  I don't do cases anymore. So my job is to manage
• 48:52
  the firm, drive cases here, run all the business
• 48:56
  operations side of things. When I do get referrals,
• 48:59
  I have to give those to somebody else. And sometimes
• 49:02
  it's somebody that I know very, very well. And
• 49:04
  when people reach out and say like, oh, this
• 49:07
  isn't going well. it's really easy for me to
• 49:11
  be like, oh, okay, well, let me tell you exactly
• 49:13
  what is happening here. Let me tell you the advice
• 49:14
  about this case. Let me tell you how this should
• 49:16
  work. I'm going to tell you about this commissioner
• 49:17
  and I'm going to tell you about opposing counsel.
• 49:19
  But if I do that, then I've really harmed my
• 49:23
  attorney's ability to execute on their job. And
• 49:26
  I've had to learn that the hard way because I've
• 49:27
  messed up sometimes, right? Or I have like, oh,
• 49:29
  it's just so easy because I know this about this
• 49:32
  case or about this court, right? um but taking
• 49:35
  the extra time to then talk to my team and say
• 49:38
  hey help me understand what's going on here let
• 49:41
  me give you some background knowledge kind of
• 49:44
  like you just indicated it goes a long way into
• 49:46
  building my trust with my team yeah like okay
• 49:49
  ryan's gonna have him back he's not gonna cut
• 49:51
  me out uh you're not gonna cut my knees out from
• 49:53
  underneath me right with a client because that's
• 49:54
  bad he's gonna like come and talk to me about
• 49:57
  it and then allow me to do to my job and it's
• 49:59
  it's hard because it's hard to like let that
• 50:01
  go sometimes because like I know this person.
• 50:05
  I brought them in. Like, that's really hard.
• 50:07
  But it's so much better if you can do it effectively.
• 50:10
  I'm going to read you a quote, okay? You ready
• 50:11
  for this? This is not going to be a general one.
• 50:13
  Do you know who John Maxwell is? John C. Maxwell?
• 50:16
  He's an author, written a ton of books, public
• 50:19
  speaker. He's just amazing in the leadership
• 50:22
  space. Like, he is amazing. And one of the things
• 50:25
  he said, this is a very small quote from his
• 50:27
  book called The 17 Indisputable Laws of Teamwork.
• 50:31
  He said, one is too small a number to achieve
• 50:33
  greatness. And so how have you seen that be true?
• 50:38
  Because you said you love your team. How have
• 50:39
  you seen that be true for you guys to accomplish
• 50:42
  what you want to at your school? Oh, that is
• 50:46
  a really good question. And I love that you said
• 50:48
  that because sometimes, and I don't think anyone
• 50:53
  has any kind of ill intent when they do this,
• 50:56
  but because I'm the principal. people tend to
• 51:00
  bring those compliments of like, oh, your school
• 51:02
  is doing so well. You're doing such a great job.
• 51:05
  And I don't know how to diffuse that enough,
• 51:08
  right? I think people think I'm just like false
• 51:10
  humility when I'm like, no, it's my team. It
• 51:12
  is really my team. Like there, I could not go
• 51:16
  to another school and replicate what I am doing.
• 51:19
  And what's unique about my team right now is
• 51:23
  our skill sets are also very different. and um
• 51:28
  my assistant principal could not be more different
• 51:30
  from me um but we also could not be better teammates
• 51:35
  like i love her and when you're aligned on the
• 51:39
  purpose when you're aligned in the mission um
• 51:41
  then it's a lot easier to understand like hey
• 51:46
  we are we're aligned we're trying to accomplish
• 51:48
  the same thing maybe we go about different ways
• 51:50
  we may have disagreements but if we have mission
• 51:53
  alignment now it's easier to weather that storm
• 51:57
  So let's contrast that for a second with Rattigan.
• 52:01
  So tell me where you think it comes from with
• 52:04
  Rattigan to try to tell everybody that he's a
• 52:08
  mouse and that he refuses to acknowledge that
• 52:11
  he's a rat even though it's in his name, right?
• 52:13
  And then one guy who accidentally calls him a
• 52:15
  rat gets fed that they can't. Now this obviously
• 52:18
  sounds like an extreme example, right? But like
• 52:21
  in what ways is that really emblematic sometimes
• 52:23
  of mistakes that leaders make? Ooh, that's a
• 52:26
  really good point. Yeah, I need a backstory on
• 52:30
  Radigan, right? Yeah. That would be so cute.
• 52:34
  Prequel here. Because up to this point, every
• 52:40
  character, like their best laid plans have been
• 52:43
  interrupted, right? Even Flavisham, the toy maker.
• 52:47
  there's there's no mom in this story and olivia
• 52:49
  is upfront about that because basil is like just
• 52:51
  go ask your mom to find him and she's like i
• 52:53
  don't i don't have a mom right so that wasn't
• 52:56
  in their plan um basil helping this little girl
• 53:00
  like when he's not really a kid person like that
• 53:02
  wasn't in his plan dr watson getting her up into
• 53:05
  this dr dawson getting her up that wasn't in
• 53:07
  his plan um and you can tell that somewhere along
• 53:12
  the way like radigan's best laid plans also interrupted
• 53:16
  yeah like he's clearly not a happy human um and
• 53:21
  i think it speaks so much to how we respond when
• 53:25
  like controversy and adversity he even says i
• 53:30
  wrote this down um he's doing like a little monologue
• 53:33
  when he's first introduced he sings a really
• 53:36
  great song too by the way um but he he wallows
• 53:41
  in his self -described he says like i have experienced
• 53:45
  so much adversity um but this you know i overcame
• 53:49
  it and that's why i'm powerful and that's why
• 53:52
  i'm so great and so um i think it's very telling
• 53:57
  that he has this complex about being a rat he
• 54:00
  doesn't love himself he doesn't love who he is
• 54:02
  um he's chosen to take the adversity and blame
• 54:06
  it on other people i also think it's interesting
• 54:09
  when he does at the point in the movie where
• 54:11
  he captures basil and he's you know he's tricked
• 54:15
  him into his trap um he tears down basil in such
• 54:23
  a way that like it guts basil right he's and
• 54:27
  i'm just watching this and i'm watching him like
• 54:29
  berate him and cut down every part of him that
• 54:33
  he knows really matters to basil um as as a true
• 54:38
  bully would yeah and i was watching that thinking
• 54:40
  somebody did that to him yeah or he believed
• 54:43
  that about himself and he thinks the only way
• 54:46
  to fix it is to become powerful and power is
• 54:50
  never satiated and so he can't get enough um
• 54:55
  so it's interesting he's projecting yes he's
• 54:58
  projecting his own insecurities onto basil so
• 55:01
  that he can try to feel more powerful yes i tear
• 55:05
  you down because it helps me feel better about
• 55:07
  who i am and even though i'm telling you you're
• 55:10
  a fool and you're not a great detective and you're
• 55:13
  not that smart like those are my fears but i'm
• 55:17
  saying out loud but that's thinking about you
• 55:19
  and i think when when people are not in the best
• 55:23
  version of themselves when they're not self -aware
• 55:27
  of things they have, then I think ego gets in
• 55:30
  the way and we try to call ourselves a mouse
• 55:33
  when we're a rat. And it's okay to be a rat.
• 55:38
  Right? If you're a rat, it's okay to be a rat,
• 55:40
  right? It just is. But sometimes that's hard.
• 55:44
  Sometimes it's hard to accept our shortcomings.
• 55:47
  Sometimes it's hard to accept who we are. Sometimes
• 55:50
  it's hard to find the authenticity that exists.
• 55:55
  But when you can, right, then Basil and Dr. Dawson
• 55:59
  and Olivia and Flaversham, is that? Flaversham.
• 56:02
  Flaversham. That's right. You say it with a British
• 56:04
  accent, right? When they do, then much like we're
• 56:08
  saying, then they can achieve greatness and something
• 56:10
  actually great can happen, not something horrific
• 56:13
  and horrible like Radigan's trying to do. Yeah.
• 56:15
  I think it's really interesting. I was surprised
• 56:18
  at how much I loved Olivia. Ah, yes. Which you
• 56:22
  shouldn't be, right? Because you work with little
• 56:24
  kids. Right. And you have some little kids. And
• 56:27
  you're like, wait a second. Of course I love
• 56:28
  Olivia. Yeah. But she is awesome. She really
• 56:31
  is. And she's smart. And she contributes. And
• 56:35
  I found it very funny. At one point, they go
• 56:39
  to a toy shop, right? It's not her dad's toy
• 56:40
  shop. They go to a, they're chasing the bat because
• 56:43
  they're trying to find Rattigan. And they know
• 56:44
  the bat will lead them to Rattigan. And they
• 56:47
  wind up in this toy shop. And I was watching
• 56:49
  it. And both Dr. Dawson and Basil are essentially
• 56:53
  ignoring her, right? They're letting her tag
• 56:55
  along, but they're not. And I'm thinking, she
• 56:59
  is the expert in the room right now. This five
• 57:02
  -year -old knows more about these toys than the
• 57:05
  two of you could possibly know combined. And
• 57:09
  you're overlooking her. And she, you know, I
• 57:14
  mean, she's still a kid. She plays with toys
• 57:16
  and that. causes some consternation for basil
• 57:19
  of baker street um but ultimately she contributes
• 57:23
  quite a bit to the success of the story um you
• 57:29
  know at one point they crash into big ben and
• 57:32
  um bradigan is about to push basil like down
• 57:37
  the shaft of big ben and you know she's the one
• 57:40
  that warns him and i I love her tenacity. I love
• 57:46
  her, like, I'm not going to take no for an answer.
• 57:49
  And her confidence, right? You juxtapose that
• 57:53
  with Radigan, who is so insecure. She knows who
• 57:57
  she is. She also comes from a loving home. But
• 58:02
  she has a confidence that radiates. It radiates
• 58:10
  to Dr. Dawson. It radiates to Basil. because
• 58:13
  she is not willing to give up and because she
• 58:16
  has the confidence that they can be successful
• 58:18
  they are successful um even when she's not you
• 58:23
  know big enough or strong enough and she's a
• 58:25
  little kid to help in certain ways she never
• 58:28
  stops trying which i absolutely love about her
• 58:32
  um you know and connecting that back to like
• 58:38
  not loving administration I had somebody who
• 58:41
  told me like a year and a half in just quit.
• 58:43
  Like, it doesn't matter. Just quit. And I wanted
• 58:46
  to, and I'm really, really glad that I didn't
• 58:49
  because even though it's like still a very stressful
• 58:52
  part of my life, the things I have learned and
• 58:57
  the experiences that I have had, I wouldn't trade
• 59:01
  them for anything. So I'm going to read you another
• 59:04
  quote. It's from Jim Collins. Okay. Jim Collins.
• 59:10
  wrote a book called good to great okay um and
• 59:13
  in it he talks about level five leaders which
• 59:16
  are like the ideal type of a leader right so
• 59:19
  just to give that purpose because it's the quotes
• 59:20
  about level five leaders it says level five leaders
• 59:23
  display a powerful mixture of personal humility
• 59:27
  and indomitable will okay which i think is interesting
• 59:33
  because we talk about juxtaposition right things
• 59:35
  that may seemingly be the opposite Kind of like
• 59:39
  what we're about here in yes and land, right?
• 59:41
  Yes. And yes, you can be humble and you can also
• 59:44
  have an indomitable will. How do you see that
• 59:49
  having played a role in your leadership in the
• 59:54
  school you're in? I love that. That's such a
• 59:56
  good question. When I got to my school, we were
• 1:00:01
  in what we call TSI, targeted school improvement.
• 1:00:05
  And essentially, it means that our school had
• 1:00:07
  been performing in the bottom 5 % of schools
• 1:00:09
  in the state. And if you are in TSI for more
• 1:00:14
  than three years, then you shift into what they
• 1:00:18
  call continuous school improvement, which essentially
• 1:00:20
  means the state comes in and takes over your
• 1:00:22
  building. They tell you what you can and can't
• 1:00:24
  do. They come in and do a full evaluation of
• 1:00:29
  everybody. It's intense. Nobody likes that. And
• 1:00:34
  after my second year there, we were staring down
• 1:00:38
  that barrel of like, if we can't get our scores
• 1:00:41
  up, we're going to be in big trouble. Now, to
• 1:00:46
  be clear, like half the schools in my district,
• 1:00:50
  you can be in TSI for any number of categories.
• 1:00:54
  if if your low income kids are in the bottom
• 1:00:56
  five percent then you can be in tsi if your um
• 1:00:59
  english learners are in the bottom five percent
• 1:01:02
  you can be in tsi if you're low in or when you
• 1:01:04
  said low income um if you're special ed students
• 1:01:07
  like so there are all of these categories so
• 1:01:10
  like most schools like many schools i should
• 1:01:15
  say will find themselves like designated in tsi
• 1:01:18
  at one point or another um and especially title
• 1:01:22
  one title one it's like very common to be in
• 1:01:27
  tsi um it's also very difficult to get out of
• 1:01:31
  tsi like it's it's a heavy heavy left um and
• 1:01:38
  i genuinely was like i don't know if we can do
• 1:01:42
  this but i also knew we didn't have any other
• 1:01:46
  choice and so like we rallied as a team and we
• 1:01:52
  accessed all of our resources we met with our
• 1:01:56
  district data scientists we um we signed up for
• 1:02:02
  every like training we possibly could um we i
• 1:02:07
  mean we were all in we were committed and it
• 1:02:10
  was a team effort so i had like 12 people on
• 1:02:13
  this team that we were like we're gonna make
• 1:02:15
  this happen um and we blew it and everyone was
• 1:02:21
  surprised right nobody saw that coming like not
• 1:02:24
  the district um i remember very distinctly the
• 1:02:28
  faculty meeting where i like stood up and was
• 1:02:31
  just crying and i was like we did it we did it
• 1:02:33
  we did it um the cool thing about that though
• 1:02:36
  is that we have stayed out like it's one thing
• 1:02:40
  to get out it's even more difficult to stay out
• 1:02:42
  um and i think that this component of like we
• 1:02:50
  are not going to do that again like we're not
• 1:02:52
  going to find ourselves in that situation um
• 1:02:55
  has definitely been something that has has become
• 1:03:02
  kind of a core value of our school yeah um i'm
• 1:03:06
  also very good at and that is one of my strengths
• 1:03:09
  on our team right i am good at not taking over
• 1:03:11
  an answer and finding ways to get things done
• 1:03:15
  um whether that be like finding funding or like
• 1:03:18
  i'm a good networker and so like i do think that
• 1:03:22
  that is a component that i bring to the table
• 1:03:25
  so um it's it's interesting that you say that
• 1:03:28
  and i have i have one dream that i have yet to
• 1:03:31
  achieve but i like mark my words i'm gonna make
• 1:03:35
  this happen well let's hear it i want to take
• 1:03:39
  my kids to disneyland right you haven't taken
• 1:03:42
  disneyland yet no no not my personal children
• 1:03:44
  Like my students at my school. Like a certain
• 1:03:49
  select number? Or like, can you tell me more?
• 1:03:52
  So Mike Haynes, who is our mutual connection,
• 1:03:54
  the director of the foundation, he and I have
• 1:03:57
  had many conversations about, you know, one thing
• 1:04:01
  that keeps kids in poverty is a lack of experiences.
• 1:04:05
  Most kids who grow up in the poverty cycle don't
• 1:04:09
  go without or like they don't leave a five mile
• 1:04:12
  radius of where they grow up. And so like one
• 1:04:16
  of my core things that I do for my kids, I really
• 1:04:19
  try to provide experiences for them so they know
• 1:04:22
  how to think outside the box, right? Like they
• 1:04:24
  need to know what options are out there. And
• 1:04:28
  having a connection, my current assistant principal
• 1:04:30
  grew up in extreme poverty. She grew up in Compton.
• 1:04:33
  And she said that when she was in eighth grade,
• 1:04:38
  like something, they got to go to Maui. I don't
• 1:04:41
  know how that happened. That must have been.
• 1:04:43
  a different time um but she said i remember going
• 1:04:46
  to maui with my school group and i thought to
• 1:04:49
  myself i am coming back here one day and you
• 1:04:52
  know she like her older brother was gang involved
• 1:04:55
  like she all the odds were stacked against her
• 1:04:57
  but because of that field trip she was like i
• 1:05:00
  am going to college and i'm going to have a career
• 1:05:03
  and i am going to be able to afford to go to
• 1:05:07
  maui on vacation so that's kind of my thing is
• 1:05:10
  like i like to provide experiences for my kids
• 1:05:12
  because i want them to have those things um and
• 1:05:16
  being an art school we have a full functioning
• 1:05:19
  band right they're quite good like i know you
• 1:05:22
  don't you wouldn't think an elementary band is
• 1:05:24
  like fun to listen to but they really are fun
• 1:05:26
  like they're good um okay Just for a little fun?
• 1:05:30
  Yeah. Okay. We'll do this or that. Okay. And
• 1:05:33
  then we'll do that. Okay. And, you know, if at
• 1:05:36
  some point in time during any of this you decide
• 1:05:38
  to bust out a rap, girl, we're over here for
• 1:05:41
  it. Okay. I don't know how to take it up for
• 1:05:43
  you well, but, like, don't be shy, okay? Okay.
• 1:05:46
  Okay, so here's our this or that. Basil or Dr.
• 1:05:49
  Dawson? Ooh. Ooh, that's so hard. I'm going to
• 1:05:56
  say Dr. Dawson. I love a reporter. I love somebody
• 1:06:03
  who doesn't need the glory. I love somebody who
• 1:06:06
  is just like, I am going to contribute what I
• 1:06:12
  know how to contribute, but I'm not going to
• 1:06:14
  be loud about it. Before, when I was writing
• 1:06:17
  this, 100 % I was Basil. And throughout this
• 1:06:21
  conversation, you talked about the things that
• 1:06:23
  he was doing, especially like... recognizing
• 1:06:25
  that olivia could contribute and then he's helping
• 1:06:27
  to make this stuff happen and then the support
• 1:06:29
  that he's giving my answer changed like it's
• 1:06:32
  dr dawson for me too uh yeah he's fantastic okay
• 1:06:35
  big ben or buckingham palace oh buckingham palace
• 1:06:42
  i mean the magical you know there's something
• 1:06:46
  about a palace yeah that's for sure london fog
• 1:06:51
  or a clear london night oh as much as i like
• 1:06:56
  love a good view like fog is so iconic to london
• 1:07:01
  and like it's so mysterious and just have such
• 1:07:06
  i think i have to go with fog wait um okay a
• 1:07:10
  detective hat otherwise known as a a deer stalker
• 1:07:15
  i had to look it up okay deer stalker or trucker
• 1:07:19
  hat oh deer stalker okay yeah Recess duty or
• 1:07:24
  lunch duty? Ooh, recess duty. I love to be outside
• 1:07:28
  with the kids. I'm sure. I was just talking about
• 1:07:30
  being a PE teacher. I was like, oh, this is probably
• 1:07:31
  an easy one for you. Field trip or surprise assembly?
• 1:07:35
  Ooh, that's a good one. Like, I love working
• 1:07:39
  in a good assembly, but I'm going to have to
• 1:07:41
  go with field trip because of the experience
• 1:07:43
  component. Like, there are things that I can't
• 1:07:46
  do in an assembly that a field trip can do. Yeah,
• 1:07:48
  totally fair. Okay, now this one might be real
• 1:07:52
  controversial. So let's throw this out there,
• 1:07:55
  all right? Everybody buckle up. Everybody has
• 1:07:57
  strong opinions on this one too. I know, but
• 1:08:00
  I've seen it. Whiteboard or chalkboard? Ooh.
• 1:08:05
  Okay, whiteboard is way more functional. Chalkboard
• 1:08:09
  is just so classic. And there's something about
• 1:08:12
  that feeling of like brushing the chalk off between
• 1:08:14
  your hands. But, you know, if I'm looking at
• 1:08:18
  what's best for kids. whiteboard okay whiteboard
• 1:08:21
  every time yeah whiteboards are way easier and
• 1:08:24
  better let's go into some uh we're gonna go uh
• 1:08:26
  general pop culture okay okay you ready for this
• 1:08:29
  yeah hit me up 90s hip -hop or modern hip -hop
• 1:08:32
  90s hip -hop no battle yeah no battle no battle
• 1:08:36
  um karaoke or freestyle karaoke uh morning person
• 1:08:42
  or night owl oh wolf I'm more of a night owl.
• 1:08:46
  I like to get up early. Like it's satisfying
• 1:08:48
  to get up and like get your day going. But I
• 1:08:52
  just, I love the quiet of like being the only
• 1:08:55
  person awake and doing whatever I want. At night?
• 1:08:58
  Okay. See, and what's interesting you say that
• 1:09:01
  is to some extent, that's actually why I like
• 1:09:02
  super early morning. I like getting up when like
• 1:09:06
  the world is not yet awake. It is all to myself.
• 1:09:10
  and i can go get in a workout i can go get some
• 1:09:13
  work done i'll start doing work um uh and i'll
• 1:09:18
  read and it's just like i don't know what it
• 1:09:20
  is when i think the rest of the world's not awake
• 1:09:22
  i love that time it's for me it's just like i
• 1:09:25
  found this early yeah it's just me yeah no which
• 1:09:27
  is interesting because i don't normally like
• 1:09:28
  being alone like solo travel for the birds I
• 1:09:33
  did it, like, really for the first time this
• 1:09:34
  last, like, a few months back. Oh, really? It
• 1:09:37
  was D .C. before my wife got there, this trip
• 1:09:39
  I was on. Okay. Oh, my goodness. No, thank you.
• 1:09:42
  No, thank you. It's horrible. I guess, like,
• 1:09:45
  maybe that's got to work out some issues. You
• 1:09:47
  didn't share that experience. No, I did Disneyland
• 1:09:50
  once by myself when I was studying for the LSAT.
• 1:09:53
  So I had, like, a mission, right? So I loved
• 1:09:55
  it because I was there by myself, but I was,
• 1:09:58
  like, doing something. But, yes, I'm with you
• 1:10:00
  there. It's more fun with people. um okay here's
• 1:10:03
  a rapid fire okay favorite disney movie cinderella
• 1:10:06
  favorite disney song oh okay animated or live
• 1:10:12
  action give me both okay so there is a very speaking
• 1:10:17
  of fringe disney movies um there is a live action
• 1:10:21
  it's not really live it's a it's from like the
• 1:10:24
  60s it's called the happiest millionaire it's
• 1:10:26
  leslie ann warren and i can't remember name um
• 1:10:30
  they actually star in two disney movies so there's
• 1:10:33
  that there's that one and there's the one and
• 1:10:35
  only genuine original family band which is probably
• 1:10:38
  my favorite like people disney movie um but it's
• 1:10:45
  called are we dancing and it's like a it's a
• 1:10:48
  very like romance song um but like i love it
• 1:10:52
  it's very just pretty and simple and well written
• 1:10:56
  so we're gonna have to like Put a link in the
• 1:11:00
  descriptions to this episode for this song for
• 1:11:02
  people. And I'm going to have to go listen to
• 1:11:03
  it right after. I have no idea what this song
• 1:11:05
  is. I'm just going to have to totally check it
• 1:11:07
  out. Very out there. I love it. Yeah. Favorite
• 1:11:10
  Disney princess. Cinderella. Makes sense. That's
• 1:11:13
  her movie. Favorite Disney hero or heroine. Mulan.
• 1:11:19
  I get that one a lot. And that's so for me. When
• 1:11:21
  I think of a favorite Disney hero, Mulan. All
• 1:11:23
  day long. Yeah. She's amazing. Such a good story.
• 1:11:26
  I love that movie, too. Totally rewatchable for
• 1:11:28
  me. Love it. Favorite ride at Disneyland? Teacups.
• 1:11:34
  Teacups? Oh, yeah. Teacups? I haven't gotten
• 1:11:37
  that one yet. Teacups. I love those. Is this
• 1:11:39
  the nostalgia of it? I think a little bit, yeah.
• 1:11:42
  I mean, I do love a good, like, spin. Yeah. But,
• 1:11:46
  like, everybody can ride them. Yeah. Yeah, it's
• 1:11:49
  probably nostalgia. But, like, no, I love the
• 1:11:51
  teacups. I, um, I... teasing my dad a little
• 1:11:54
  bit um but i didn't really go on teacups much
• 1:11:57
  as a kid because spinning doesn't do well for
• 1:12:00
  him makes him feel pretty sick so we didn't really
• 1:12:03
  go i always season we never went he's like oh
• 1:12:05
  ryan we sometimes went and like it's true sometimes
• 1:12:07
  if i was telling me never went like that i never
• 1:12:09
  got gone three cups now i know what i want i
• 1:12:13
  do enjoy it with the kiddos uh especially when
• 1:12:16
  they like want me to spin it real fast yeah so
• 1:12:18
  like sit back and it's like have dad spin it
• 1:12:20
  yeah it's good favorite Subject to teach. Music.
• 1:12:26
  Shot with a guest after a conversation. Totally
• 1:12:28
  makes sense. What we like to end with is three
• 1:12:32
  actionable takeaways. Okay. Three things that
• 1:12:35
  you would recommend somebody could put into effect
• 1:12:36
  today or this week on the topic that we're looking
• 1:12:40
  at. One is bring what you have to the table and
• 1:12:45
  be confident in what you can bring to the table.
• 1:12:51
  But also like you have to work at that, right?
• 1:12:54
  Number two, you can't do it by yourself. And
• 1:13:01
  you have to choose, you have to have a team.
• 1:13:05
  And you have to recognize that the team all pulls
• 1:13:08
  equal weight, right? There's not one person who
• 1:13:11
  gets to be more important than anybody else.
• 1:13:15
  And I think the third one that I would take away
• 1:13:18
  is, When things don't go as planned, there's
• 1:13:25
  a good reason for that. And it's going to make
• 1:13:26
  sense later on. And just trust the process. Love
• 1:13:31
  it. Absolutely fantastic. Well, thank you so
• 1:13:33
  much for joining us today. Thank you for having
• 1:13:35
  me. This has been a blast to talk. You've got
• 1:13:38
  me super inspired to think about getting majestics.
• 1:13:43
  and to Disneyland. That'd be so magical. It would
• 1:13:46
  be magical for that to happen for those kids.
• 1:13:49
  So stay tuned, everybody. We're gonna see what
• 1:13:52
  we can do. Sweet. Thanks. Thanks, guys. As you
• 1:13:55
  leave this conversation, remember that yes, the
• 1:13:58
  past can hurt and you can either run from it
• 1:14:01
  or you can learn from it. So here's to learning
• 1:14:04
  and finding joy in the journey. See you real
• 1:14:07
  soon.