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RnG: Actual Play as Art [PUBLIC] · DiceSized

• 0:05
  Welcome to RNG, where you get to listen to my brother and me and
• 0:08
  talk about whatever is top of mind and top of die, because of
• 0:11
  course we're going to roll for it today.
• 0:13
  Our topic to guide our discussion is actual plays as
• 0:18
  art. But before we get to that, this
• 0:20
  is me, not your DM today, but still and always your friend
• 0:23
  Robert Whitehead. And with me, as always, is my
• 0:26
  lovely brother. It's still a table of family and
• 0:31
  friend, but brother welcome. Hey, it's G and happy to be
• 0:36
  here. We are doing the brother thing
• 0:38
  and you're going to have to listen to it.
• 0:40
  Yep, I'm trying something new. You got Cozy Corner recently,
• 0:43
  You got R&G now. Maybe I'll post, Maybe I'll post
• 0:46
  them at the same time. I don't know.
• 0:47
  It's like a, it's like those authors that are these days, I
• 0:50
  don't know if you've seen this, but a lot of fantasy authors
• 0:52
  these days will do like the same series but from two different
• 0:55
  POV's and then release it as it's like brother sister series.
• 0:59
  Oh cool. I think that's kind of fun.
• 1:01
  But today we are here to talk about actual plays as art.
• 1:04
  We're going to talk about all the things that go into our post
• 1:07
  production process, which is quite a bit I think between G
• 1:11
  and I. Our episodes these days end up
• 1:13
  being somewhere between like like combined layers.
• 1:16
  What do you think? Because I'm putting, sometimes
• 1:20
  we've got 4 voice tracks, but then on top of that, sometimes
• 1:23
  I'm putting two to three layers of reverb, a voice Effect, 3
• 1:27
  layers of ambiance in this last one, and you know, SFX on top of
• 1:31
  that, which oh God, don't even get me started.
• 1:33
  Yeah, that it turns into, I think quite a bit.
• 1:36
  I mean, I go into it with a plan to hit 3 layers, you know, I
• 1:40
  mean, I, I'm going to do some paper laughing.
• 1:43
  Yeah, I'm going to do some baseline.
• 1:45
  I'm going to put some choral effects in there with like a
• 1:47
  lead instrument and it inevitably turns into 10/15/20
• 1:51
  tracks. I still remember the the first
• 1:53
  night we sat down to compose, I don't know if we'd even played
• 1:56
  yet, but we were just like, what is Witch Hunter going to be
• 1:58
  like? Yeah.
• 1:59
  And like, before we even had actually played for the
• 2:02
  campaign, just kind of trying to vibe it out.
• 2:04
  I still remember you playing and putting something together and
• 2:08
  me being like, OK, that's enough.
• 2:10
  Yeah, you could now this is the point.
• 2:11
  This is what we can move on from that.
• 2:13
  And then you'd be like, I could add a little bit more.
• 2:15
  And then me just seeing the future of a lot of overworking
• 2:18
  weekends. Oh, and.
• 2:19
  I've got, dude, I am coming from like a perfectionist past as a
• 2:23
  as a musician, not because I'm good.
• 2:25
  I'm just, you know, I, I just you're you're quite good, but
• 2:28
  going to healthy work ethic it towards the the music that I
• 2:32
  want. And I really think that what was
• 2:34
  cool with the initial, you know, what felt like, hey, is this
• 2:38
  gonna work? You know, I think it was episode
• 2:40
  0 that we were sitting down or 00 that we were sitting down to
• 2:42
  play along to. And I'm like, I have this idea
• 2:45
  of like just playing some like jazz piano and listening along
• 2:49
  and they're, you know, the reactions won't be right on
• 2:51
  point, but sometimes I can guess.
• 2:52
  And we did some cool stuff in B major and E flat minor.
• 2:57
  And it, it really kind of sold to me the idea that, OK, I do
• 3:02
  have an ear for what's going on, but the music I played in that
• 3:05
  moment, I, I almost knew right away.
• 3:07
  I'm like, this is me writing notes for something bigger.
• 3:12
  Yeah. Every piano note felt like a
• 3:15
  plan to like, really capture the story, but I had no idea what it
• 3:19
  looked. Like, yeah, you did a wicked,
• 3:20
  you did a Hamilton with this one.
• 3:22
  Like there you for sure. I think back to the layers
• 3:24
  thing. I'm putting sometimes 16 layers
• 3:28
  into into 20 layers into, yeah. That's wild too.
• 3:31
  Right. Like, but that's just my side of
• 3:34
  this of the road. And then with the music on top
• 3:36
  of that, it's just wild to me the the 30 layers that will
• 3:40
  sometimes get in scenes and you can feel it.
• 3:42
  We'll listen to a couple throughout this episode. 21 is
• 3:45
  one of my favorite episodes for that reason.
• 3:47
  Yeah. And of course the the family for
• 3:49
  the for that reason. But there was obviously some
• 3:51
  growing periods and your perfectionism was only matched
• 3:55
  by my need for competency. There's so many things about
• 4:00
  sound design that you can do, but you don't have to like.
• 4:03
  You don't have to EQ yourself, you don't have to take out the
• 4:06
  low end, and you don't have to like.
• 4:08
  God, I thought you were gonna say add footsteps here or not.
• 4:12
  No, I didn't get there. I'm talking about earlier.
• 4:13
  I mean, even before that, just like learning that there was
• 4:17
  more that you could do outside of cuts, that you could make a
• 4:20
  voice sound more pleasant or that you could.
• 4:22
  I feel like we have a cinematic sound behind the show.
• 4:25
  And I think that started with wanting to produce the sound of
• 4:28
  the show just a little bit heavier and like a little bit
• 4:30
  like more in your face. We started out so soft and
• 4:33
  ethereal. And like, it took us several
• 4:35
  episodes to be brave enough for you, I think, to put in like,
• 4:38
  rhythm and beat and for me to, like, even think about doing
• 4:41
  sound effects. Oh, that's such a good point of
• 4:43
  like two things of like what influences, you know, we pulled
• 4:47
  from starting out and maybe where it went and also the, the
• 4:51
  style that came out of that influence at what rate based on
• 4:56
  basically my insecurities. Really, I mean, really, cuz I
• 5:00
  mean, I, there was a point within the very beginning that
• 5:03
  it came with ideas of a hyper respect for what we were saying,
• 5:08
  being very sensitive to music in the background as a person
• 5:11
  listening to a movie or anything like that.
• 5:14
  And so I went into it with like, I am just gonna do like ethereal
• 5:16
  tones and maybe have some themes around big moments that have
• 5:20
  more music. Yeah, I know that.
• 5:21
  You said early on, like my biggest fear is that I take away
• 5:24
  from the experience of just listening to us, which is in, in
• 5:28
  our opinion, good enough. Like already as a baseline like
• 5:31
  we, don't we? Don't we do not need the music.
• 5:32
  Yeah, I although I think the music is obviously one of the
• 5:35
  many and primary things that make our show special, it's
• 5:39
  definitely a a creative choice largely on your part.
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  Like I'm not sitting here being like you have to give me the
• 5:45
  most amazing cinematic sounds today.
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  Like I would be so OK with the ethereal piano even from the
• 5:53
  beginning and like punctuated with little bits here and there.
• 5:56
  But the way what you've grown into, it's so cool to have seen
• 5:59
  you more from a live play style. Like I've watched my brother
• 6:03
  grow from a live stage musician with obviously some amount of
• 6:08
  experience at producing his own music, but I can't imagine you
• 6:11
  were playing hour long songs for yourself like back in the day or
• 6:14
  sometimes. Actually, it's really weird that
• 6:16
  it actually perfectly aligned my at least going from a live
• 6:20
  performer of like anywhere from 10:00 to 12 years of bar shows,
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  weddings and every type of convention that you can think
• 6:29
  of. Five piece bands, two piece
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  bands and everything above and below like solo and big band.
• 6:35
  I guess I could have just said, but it was the stuff at home was
• 6:39
  on a loop pedal and I'd come home and a lot of the times that
• 6:43
  when I did do solo shows, it was much more like EDM video game
• 6:47
  music mixed with acoustic guitar.
• 6:49
  Or my influence is more than being any specific genre of
• 6:54
  music are often times like activities I do yeah it like
• 6:57
  whether they're synesthetic or come with music already.
• 7:00
  So like video games soundtracks I've heard in my head while I
• 7:03
  read. Yeah, yeah, I'm hearing the
• 7:05
  Zelda soundtrack right now. Yeah, you can't go on, but yeah,
• 7:10
  any. 90s kid. That's like, listen to a video
• 7:12
  gave long enough so that it gets like ear wormed into you and
• 7:16
  then like you're just vacuuming later and the vacuum triggers
• 7:19
  this note that suddenly just makes you sing this Zelda song
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  from 1520 years ago. I'm not sure if I'm sure a lot
• 7:27
  of people are like that. I don't think everyone is so
• 7:31
  mindful of things that pop in. Like there was a time that I, I
• 7:34
  remember you were so aware of your influences and like
• 7:38
  honestly avoidant of influences in general because you were.
• 7:41
  The one to the right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:43
  And like, it's really cool to see you, like, accept or at
• 7:47
  least recognize influences in your work and be like, you know
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  what? It's I, I should honor the part
• 7:51
  of myself that, like, loved. First of all, the Legend of
• 7:53
  Zelda soundtrack slaps. Yeah, it does.
• 7:55
  You should honor, like, things like that from your childhood
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  and be like, this is part of what made me fall in love with
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  music. This is what I mean.
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  That's a great example of, like, adventuring and role play and
• 8:05
  all things that tabletop is about.
• 8:07
  But towards the topic of what we're talking about today,
• 8:09
  actual plays as art, what do you talk about for an artist?
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  What do you think? What do you talk about for a
• 8:14
  painter? You talk about where they were
• 8:16
  at in life, what they were experiencing at the time, what
• 8:19
  their, what the world was like at that time.
• 8:21
  There's a lot of things that I could talk about.
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  Just the general composition of Wish Hunter and it itself as a
• 8:28
  project was forged in fire. Totally.
• 8:32
  Like many podcasts and passion products are, all of us put in
• 8:35
  way more time than is sanely made sense.
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  It's true. We did it because it was art.
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  We did it because especially during a time in our life where
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  we, I think all needed art like Sav brings up a term every once
• 8:47
  in a while, collective effervescence, which is just the
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  the idea of being overwhelmed by that feeling of all the things
• 8:54
  that go into something. All of the ways that something
• 8:56
  connects all of the the the the many connections and the mass
• 9:02
  broadness of humanity that went into it, whether it was like a
• 9:05
  small group or a big group. Like you just feel the
• 9:07
  collective effervescence of it. And I think I, especially with
• 9:12
  our latest episodes, can feel that at these big moments of, I
• 9:15
  mean, I was there at the table. So I have the benefit of that.
• 9:17
  But hopefully our listeners too can feel the growth in the music
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  matched with the cinematic moments that again, you grew
• 9:24
  into the style that just like, slapped.
• 9:26
  It just bangs, dude. You touched on a really great.
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  OK. So that was one of my questions
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  that I definitely felt like really personally was the
• 9:33
  composition of the overall campaign.
• 9:37
  Now, in hindsight, you know, from A to B, the A to B in each
• 9:39
  episode, and also aligned with the growth as a creative and a
• 9:44
  sound designer. How I described it, I guess that
• 9:46
  more straight to the point was trying to keep up with how good
• 9:49
  we got on the table. Yeah.
• 9:50
  Yeah, you know, that is like the amount of time that I thought to
• 9:53
  myself, God damn, George, if you describe one more thing before
• 9:56
  the end of the episode, I'm gonna.
• 9:57
  It was, it was a blessing and a curse for us to start out
• 10:00
  shaping how we were going to do this podcast and how we were
• 10:03
  going to bring our home brew D&D to life in on these microphones.
• 10:08
  And at the same time, like starting to get really good at
• 10:12
  it really quickly, you know, And like the music I felt like on my
• 10:15
  end really felt like at first it was, it had to be ethereal tones
• 10:18
  because it was like contemplate. You could feel the exploratory
• 10:22
  contemplation in our brains, in our imagination, as we were
• 10:25
  role-playing. And it it.
• 10:27
  Yeah, the whole rave arc, like when you guys get to the
• 10:30
  unclaimed lands, you're in the Starring Valley.
• 10:33
  And we, I mean, we had no idea that we were flashbacks were
• 10:36
  going to be such a severe part of the campaign until around
• 10:38
  that time there, there were so many things about early on, they
• 10:42
  were just decided on the fly. And the music, like you were
• 10:44
  saying, kind of reflects that. It reflects the, the warbling
• 10:48
  nature that there's energy there, right?
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  You can feel the want to become something that the music just
• 10:55
  grows right as we hit the rave arc.
• 10:58
  Maybe you also wanted to do honor to Maya's character.
• 11:01
  But the rave music is some of the first music where I'm just
• 11:04
  like, I cannot deny that this is a style that you've you've grown
• 11:08
  into and that there's something here.
• 11:10
  It's like stuff I've heard you play before, but there this this
• 11:12
  shit slaps. There was, there is.
• 11:15
  It's such a like to the blessing and curse bit.
• 11:17
  It was like so cool to come in kind of uninformed of what it
• 11:21
  felt like to Mickey Mouse us with music or Mickey mousing
• 11:25
  being like following the actions with some sort of tone or music
• 11:29
  to align with the happenings of even if it's in an imaginary
• 11:33
  space and not a cartoon. At first I had this big idea of
• 11:37
  either just jazz piano with some like rhythm that shaped what
• 11:40
  happened. And there's some sitcoms out
• 11:43
  there that do this from scene to scene.
• 11:45
  But it grew into something that I think really had to keep up
• 11:49
  with the creativity we're bringing to the table, the
• 11:52
  coordination we are bringing to our character growth and the
• 11:55
  world's descriptions that we were keeping up with and the
• 11:58
  story growing. And to me, what that really felt
• 12:01
  like. But the pace over what we were
• 12:02
  setting was like, oh, man, I've chipped at a video game or two.
• 12:05
  Yeah. And I've heard the same
• 12:07
  soundtrack over and over. And for some reason, I didn't
• 12:09
  hate it. Yeah.
• 12:10
  What? Is it possible?
• 12:11
  It's possible. So I slowly got more confidence
• 12:14
  instead of just adding music to big moments or moments that were
• 12:19
  I felt were emphatic to the story or highlighting to a
• 12:22
  character or supporting to your exposition.
• 12:25
  Yeah, I started to feel this like, what if I just now that I
• 12:28
  feel the tone and I do really feel like it was waiting to
• 12:31
  grasp the mood of Witch Hunter, the tone of the story, the not
• 12:35
  necessarily the direction, but like, what does this world sound
• 12:38
  like? Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 12:40
  I think we didn't realize how much of A or campaign it was
• 12:43
  going to be. Yeah, yeah, it's all minor key,
• 12:46
  dude. Yeah.
• 12:46
  Right. Yeah, like the Wish Drinker,
• 12:48
  that entire arc, I think I've said it on several after shows,
• 12:52
  but if we were wanting to run a shorter campaign, that would be
• 12:55
  the end of the campaign. Yeah, right.
• 12:56
  And the rest would be left for mystery or campaign too.
• 12:58
  And you did say that, yeah, that ever would could have possibly
• 13:01
  that first combat could have been the end of the Wish Hunter
• 13:04
  campaign. I mean, if I remember correctly,
• 13:06
  that's like the first episode where strings are coming in and
• 13:10
  and like you're you're really expanding to out of just the
• 13:14
  like you're comfortable instruments, you're going into
• 13:16
  things that you're really stretching.
• 13:19
  I mean, like you did from episode 0, but you're learning
• 13:21
  to stretch these muscles of like, well, maybe this
• 13:23
  instrument, maybe maybe this is like always expanding, always
• 13:27
  growing. And same way for me, the wish
• 13:29
  drinker fight is the first time, I think I said earlier, the
• 13:32
  first time I'm brave enough to be like there could be a a
• 13:35
  slash. There could be a slash with the
• 13:37
  sword because I think my growth like you were saying you had I.
• 13:41
  Love that nuanced thought. So cool.
• 13:43
  Just keep going. I just, yeah.
• 13:44
  Similar to how you said you were kind of like exploratory in
• 13:48
  nature with the music, I was exploratory with sound effects,
• 13:52
  right? Like I've always been a mouth
• 13:54
  sound effect guy. When I was a kid, I used to
• 13:56
  play, I mean when I was a kid, last week, today I'll play with
• 14:00
  some action figures, make a sound affection too.
• 14:01
  I mean, it's how my brain like kind of marks action.
• 14:05
  Dude, you used to do it. I got to be your older brother.
• 14:08
  Yeah. You know more than I do about
• 14:09
  it. You probably, yeah.
• 14:10
  I mean before you were even like, I mean totally sentient.
• 14:13
  I would say we would be on walks and you would add sound effects
• 14:18
  to every motion. Whoa.
• 14:20
  There are some things that like I knew right away and also why
• 14:24
  like I I'm now a beat boxer. Yes, a good one for people to
• 14:28
  talk decent. And it came from honestly, my
• 14:32
  little brother being so inspired by these freaking sound effects
• 14:35
  that I would sometimes make that he would just go on and make a
• 14:38
  like, like just develop categories and genres of these
• 14:41
  sound effects. Like it wasn't just a machine
• 14:43
  gun sound. He would make 3 or 4 different
• 14:45
  types of machine gun sounds. Thank you.
• 14:46
  And you were like fucking four years old.
• 14:49
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 14:50
  It was very cool. I think like in the reflection
• 14:53
  of the growth in Wish Hunter, they'll probably hear like, oh,
• 14:56
  he's just aligning stuff that's going on in his brain.
• 14:58
  That was actually a question I had is like how much of the I in
• 15:02
  the sound design for somebody who probably hears a lot of like
• 15:06
  more sound effects in picking which ones that just seem like
• 15:10
  the right compositional moment or, you know, that's I guess
• 15:13
  where the question end is like what makes you feel like the
• 15:16
  sound effect goes here? That is such a good question.
• 15:18
  And I think it's, it ties in exactly with that exploratory
• 15:21
  nature of my side of things, which was mouth sounds.
• 15:23
  It was like, and I I think we joked around about the table of
• 15:26
  it being mouth sounds and mayhem kind of being our early campaign
• 15:29
  vibe because the sound effects, apart from those sound effects
• 15:33
  that feel better to just describe, but like, it's way
• 15:36
  better to describe a waterfall than it is to gurgle.
• 15:39
  Yeah, there's something romantic about the word waterfall, right?
• 15:42
  But like, no, like, I mean, you hear like that's not the that's
• 15:52
  not the one to do. But with in terms of sound
• 15:55
  design, that is one of the most impactful sounds that you can
• 15:57
  happen is right, like rave, one of my favorite transitions is
• 16:00
  from the music transitions at the same time as you hear the
• 16:03
  waterfall appear and at the same time you're hearing this more
• 16:07
  magical and mystical sound come in.
• 16:09
  But that's slightly besides the point.
• 16:11
  Like I was saying, it's the mouse sounds that really made me
• 16:14
  decide where to put sound effects first.
• 16:16
  Like because that's where I'm inspired.
• 16:18
  Like papaya. Oh God, I love.
• 16:20
  I love when. You get so engaged with an MPC
• 16:23
  that you interject or you you interrupt.
• 16:26
  It's I know Rob's feeling a freaking MPC when he has the
• 16:29
  bravery just straight up interrupt RP and it's it's
• 16:32
  always it's good too. It's fun.
• 16:34
  You're like to join and. Yeah, I do.
• 16:35
  I do love to jump in. And I think it stems from
• 16:38
  character descriptions, or rather characters describing.
• 16:42
  I think in that moment something happened.
• 16:43
  You describe like Papaya. I remember at one point like
• 16:46
  looming over Vilano and I think I cut you off.
• 16:49
  So yeah, there's there's several moments where you just describe
• 16:52
  papaya as being intimidatory and I'm just like papayas not
• 16:55
  waiting for parable to finish. That's one perfect example of
• 16:58
  just like papayas voice naturally felt great.
• 17:01
  And as a sound designer, I didn't realize it feels awesome
• 17:05
  to enhance things that want to be enhanced.
• 17:08
  Totally. Like, yeah, But could you expand
• 17:10
  on that for people that might, Yeah.
• 17:12
  Totally, totally. You can make lots of sounds
• 17:14
  sound like something else and make it sound kind of close to
• 17:17
  what you want. Brick is a great example.
• 17:19
  Maya is so good about taking the breath out of those sound
• 17:22
  effects and making them solely vibration.
• 17:25
  Yeah. And meaning that I can use
• 17:27
  something called a flange or there's a number of different
• 17:30
  things that I could do that that would just play with the
• 17:32
  frequency of the sound to make it dance and move and wobble.
• 17:36
  And you need good input to get good output.
• 17:39
  And like, wanting to enhance things like Papaya is a natural
• 17:43
  one where it's like that's the synergy of the Mao sound, the
• 17:46
  mayhem and what we come to find in like the skill of combining
• 17:50
  music with the moment. I think Papaya is just a very
• 17:53
  direct example of a technically a returning sound effect that
• 17:56
  makes you want to hear it more or hear it differently, right?
• 18:00
  Same as Brick. It's weird, it's really
• 18:02
  intrusive sound, but it's like, it's also like something that I
• 18:05
  get excited to hear. Yeah, on the pod or even when
• 18:07
  you do it at the table. It's like hard to be soft voice
• 18:10
  when you're rolling your, you know, but it also also to your
• 18:13
  point, like hard to do it without totally into the
• 18:16
  microphone. This is a great question though
• 18:18
  that I have, but I want you to finish on the papaya bit.
• 18:20
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just mainly the fact that
• 18:23
  my favorite thing now these days is finding ways to theme moments
• 18:27
  in the same way that you have themed the characters with
• 18:30
  different sounds. And that's one of my questions
• 18:32
  for you, but it was just so fun to find early on examples of
• 18:35
  places where I felt inspired by, like I said, mouth sounds.
• 18:38
  That's where I want to put the sound effect because I want a
• 18:40
  slash there or I want to feel the the pull of this.
• 18:44
  And now I know the words to search for right swell Stinger
• 18:49
  reversed. Like there's all these things
• 18:50
  that I know that there are sounds that exist, that people
• 18:54
  have had these same kind of audio hallucinations and I have
• 18:58
  and somebody has put them out there and there's 1001 great
• 19:01
  royalty free places. But it's also super fun to make
• 19:04
  your own with your own mouth sounds.
• 19:05
  And yeah, I just learned to fall in love with both of those until
• 19:08
  it was all I wanted to do. That is so cool.
• 19:10
  Yeah, I think the that is a great composition idea of vote.
• 19:13
  Like basically do everything you can with your mouth on the
• 19:17
  microphone and anywhere you can't add a sound effect.
• 19:19
  I was, I was actually thinking about when we have guests on the
• 19:23
  show, I want to encourage people to make their own mouth sound
• 19:26
  totally because I don't think many shows would be super
• 19:30
  supportive of that and I love doing that a little.
• 19:32
  Reverb on that? Yeah, it sounds great.
• 19:34
  And if you're bad at it, then I'll cut it and put a sound
• 19:36
  effect that sounds like what you intended like it.
• 19:39
  It helps me to understand what your mental images of this
• 19:43
  moment like. Good point.
• 19:44
  You guys are all really, really good about that.
• 19:46
  And sometimes you guys are just all so good enough with
• 19:49
  description that it makes it easy to be like, yeah, this is
• 19:51
  exactly what they want sound like.
• 19:53
  When you describe something sharp, it's got to be a high
• 19:55
  ringing sound that comes afterwards that reminds you of
• 19:58
  the sharpness of the blade. That's the stuff that I feel
• 20:01
  like you have a natural, natural talent for or a passionate skill
• 20:05
  towards because I don't think in the same way that some people
• 20:08
  can identify relative key or say, hey, this sounds like AG
• 20:11
  note here. I think being able to.
• 20:14
  Identify what adds frailness or sharpness or the sense of dread
• 20:19
  or the sense of is definitely a skill that you've honed.
• 20:23
  Thank you. We actually, I was actually
• 20:24
  thinking about this. This is a tangent, but we went
• 20:27
  to a John Marco show and he's a fantastic comedian if you've
• 20:30
  ever seen him. Amazing.
• 20:31
  Yeah. John Marcos Razi, if you haven't
• 20:33
  heard of him, he's a great comedian.
• 20:34
  But there was a moment in a show where someone dropped like a
• 20:37
  clatter of a sound and it kind of sounded to me like somebody
• 20:41
  being like, ha, like it. It sounded like a really harsh
• 20:44
  laugh, but it could it was obviously like the clatter of
• 20:45
  silverware or something. And he responded to it and said
• 20:49
  Yep. And he like he, he just.
• 20:51
  He took a sound in the room and responded to it.
• 20:52
  Exactly, and I, and I think everyone's got this little bit
• 20:55
  of them that is able to insert sound like I'm not I'm doing
• 21:00
  half the work the your brain is doing the rest of it, like the
• 21:03
  fact that I don't necessarily have to capture every single
• 21:07
  little action, but can put the feeling of that sound over even
• 21:11
  if I can't capture it. Exactly.
• 21:13
  That's a beautiful thing about actual play is that I can put
• 21:16
  chains moving this way and chains moving that way and A and
• 21:20
  you can feel the shifting of Zen riding a horse as I add that
• 21:26
  gallop and the flames rise up and they're winding through
• 21:29
  those chains. My only fear is same to you as
• 21:32
  being obtrusive and being like, Oh, I, I put those chains in for
• 21:35
  too long. They rattled for too long to the
• 21:37
  point where it's like, Oh, I'm actually, I'm out of the, I'm
• 21:38
  out of the if the listener is mine.
• 21:40
  Totally. I wanted to add like tips
• 21:43
  honestly and tasks that I've run into and moving from the
• 21:46
  background and deciding where the music goes.
• 21:49
  I think really where I've learned is depth, depth being
• 21:54
  volume fading and fading in and out with your tracks to even if
• 21:59
  it's not to, you know, unhearable decibels.
• 22:02
  Early on before I was confident in creating themes and aligning
• 22:06
  compositionally the drums versus the bass versus the lead strings
• 22:09
  versus the the low strings to shape these drops INS and outs.
• 22:13
  I would straight cut the track or add a fader or like just
• 22:17
  literally hold down a choral key and change 2 fingers as I'm
• 22:21
  going and changing the volume on my piano up and down.
• 22:24
  The early episode episodes are I can't reuse any of the stuff
• 22:27
  because I would increase the volume when somebody would get
• 22:30
  ridden for. It and then say it down but.
• 22:34
  Yeah, those like early on, like tips I would have for myself
• 22:37
  were like keep it simple and a lot goes with one harmony all
• 22:42
  the way through and adjusting dissonance to that one harmony.
• 22:44
  Like if you've ever been to like a sound bowl or like therapy or
• 22:47
  a sound bowl healing class, it's very similar.
• 22:49
  We're just adding a little dissonance to a chord can do a
• 22:52
  lot of a home and away effect. Totally.
• 22:54
  That's, that's something I would really love to talk about.
• 22:56
  And I haven't asked many questions, but my, one of my
• 22:58
  biggest ones is that I know that you have a lot of love for music
• 23:01
  theory and of course classical music theory, but also like your
• 23:05
  own relationship with music personally.
• 23:07
  And I feel like I've I've grown to sense that that in terms of
• 23:10
  how you talk about resolution and how that there is like a
• 23:13
  home in music and you can find yourself wanting that next thing
• 23:17
  you. Know he's lost the magic too.
• 23:20
  I've seen behind the screen. I am the wizard now.
• 23:22
  I am the wizard now. Because it's just an old cranky
• 23:25
  man. Sometimes I even play piano, but
• 23:29
  he's good at it too. Thank you, but maybe I'll put
• 23:31
  some stuff on the show. 1 day but I I now know that there's
• 23:35
  places like in the finale, for example, when parable spoilers
• 23:39
  for the finale. If you haven't let's do it true
• 23:41
  parable makes a strike that rings you describe and rings
• 23:44
  once and then I re describe it rings twice and then you re
• 23:48
  describe it a third time and it rings A3 a third time
• 23:51
  differently each time reverbed. But then there's the one last
• 23:55
  moment where it needs to all come together and I re describe
• 23:59
  it one last time and I add in like chunks of stone falling
• 24:04
  off. And it's it's just that that is
• 24:07
  the composition aspect that I really really now fully relate
• 24:11
  to you on about how some things need to be there and need to be
• 24:15
  heard. Because it's like if I, if you
• 24:17
  just done those 3, then it's just, it's just three sounds
• 24:20
  that kind of reflect that moment instead of a composed
• 24:25
  imagination moment that feels like listener, this is what I'm
• 24:28
  thinking of. Are you thinking of the same
• 24:29
  thing? Dude, it's wild because like I,
• 24:31
  I don't want to bring up that Rob and I played soccer together
• 24:33
  a lot when we were, we were kids, but that felt like a
• 24:35
  mental pass of I, oh, good pass. Like I, I threes are a big
• 24:39
  thing, right? And storytelling.
• 24:41
  And then you, you got 1A duality and then you got this Trinity
• 24:44
  and you like, however you shape that.
• 24:46
  I can tell a whole story, even just playing with marbles.
• 24:48
  And I I really believe that math has been a big part of my life,
• 24:51
  but mainly because of the pattern recognition that comes
• 24:54
  with it and a craving that comes from things having intervals and
• 24:58
  spaces between. So if like a three goes a
• 25:01
  certain way, a steffer issue creates a build, you want
• 25:03
  resolution. I think John Mayer even talks
• 25:05
  about embodies of Wonderland. He doesn't sing it a fourth time
• 25:07
  until the last the last round of the.
• 25:09
  Course, yeah, until you're like your brains begging for.
• 25:12
  Resolution and then you get resolution and it's a little
• 25:15
  pop, the song trick and music theory, but there's playing with
• 25:18
  home and away completion of resolution to this whole
• 25:21
  composition in and out and how close you get to it.
• 25:24
  And honestly, what I've loved exploring in a little bit of
• 25:28
  the, I guess you would say jazz of the music or more, you know,
• 25:33
  outside of the music theory is playing with dissonance, playing
• 25:36
  with clashing chords, playing with unresolved endings to songs
• 25:41
  and weird rhythmic tempos and things like that.
• 25:44
  Totally. It's really just not necessarily
• 25:46
  to make the listener feel a certain way, but to kind of play
• 25:51
  enough with that away from home and comfort discomfort binary to
• 25:55
  leave it in a neurodivergent friendly space that feels
• 25:58
  stimulating back and listen to the words.
• 26:00
  Which, which is funny, like the way you play is kind of we
• 26:04
  jokingly sometimes call Lorefi, yeah, instead of like Lofi Lofi,
• 26:10
  Yeah. And it's it's just, I don't like
• 26:12
  that description. It's pretty close.
• 26:15
  Well, it it is. But like, I feel like lo fi is
• 26:17
  kind of considered like low effort sometimes, which very
• 26:21
  repetitive. Yeah.
• 26:22
  And and like your music is exactly the opposite, opposite
• 26:25
  of that. It's like whenever my brain is
• 26:27
  wanting something new, suddenly a new instrument is introduced.
• 26:29
  And like that I think that that level of intention is felt at
• 26:34
  least on my side. Cool.
• 26:36
  I did have a question. How do you combine all that with
• 26:38
  character theme though? Maybe it's just the nature of
• 26:41
  the campaign, but the discordant nature of ODD and the plane that
• 26:45
  you guys find yourself in for the last couple episodes is you
• 26:49
  somehow played through every song that's ever been played in
• 26:53
  our campaign. It also made it representative
• 26:57
  of the moment, right? Like.
• 26:59
  Oh my gosh, that is such a cool and big question that comes from
• 27:02
  the beginning of this instrument sounds like the desert, the
• 27:04
  recorder representing the Middle East in some romantic or desert
• 27:09
  in some way, only because a snake or like the flute in some
• 27:12
  ways and really shape the ear and and really pull from
• 27:16
  references that we might have, you know, sociopolitically and
• 27:19
  things like that. Culturally, media wise, like we
• 27:22
  have been again towards that earlier point of like accepting
• 27:25
  your influences and realizing like, oh, I do actually have a
• 27:29
  language that's been societally given to me about, yeah, maybe I
• 27:33
  don't know what a hug sounds like, but it's actually just the
• 27:36
  squeezing of rope, guys. It's just, it's just rope
• 27:38
  tightening. It's rope or leather tightening.
• 27:40
  That's so funny. Yeah, I love those little like
• 27:42
  Easter eggs or ether eggs about sound effects of what they
• 27:45
  actually are when you hear it. But yeah, to the point of like
• 27:48
  growing into, I think knowing what, where, what instruments
• 27:53
  shaped what and in what way I it all ended up being like those
• 27:56
  intervals and patterns. So like that necessarily was the
• 27:58
  flute. I was doing like a a solo with
• 28:01
  the flute over one of our tracks, and I noticed it was
• 28:03
  just the pattern that I was playing and I could change the
• 28:07
  instrument that I was doing and maybe do it on the French horn,
• 28:09
  and I'd still get the same vibe. Yeah.
• 28:11
  So I could set down the stereotype and really still
• 28:14
  shape this desert theme with like an electric guitar or
• 28:17
  something like. God I love the electric guitar
• 28:20
  tracks. I think the strings and the
• 28:21
  electric guitar are two of my favorite instruments outside of
• 28:25
  the piano. Piano will always be my favorite
• 28:27
  instrument that you play. I yeah, that shit slaps dude.
• 28:30
  Like I think we should get into playing some clips here soon
• 28:33
  because I just want to listen to some good stuff.
• 28:35
  Yeah, Yeah, we can. I mean, that's a good point to
• 28:37
  like, I mean, as a musician, I've always been kind of aware
• 28:39
  of like the floors and ceilings in a setlist.
• 28:41
  Like how big is a song versus like a slow?
• 28:43
  And it's a lot like tempo. It's you know how hard you're
• 28:46
  playing as well, how many instruments around and all that.
• 28:49
  But with the floor and ceiling initially just being a couple
• 28:51
  tracks and some ethereal tones and slowly growing into OK, this
• 28:55
  instrument represents this actually this pattern and this
• 28:58
  this mode or this scale represents this and really kind
• 29:02
  of shaping what eventually felt like a Tavern rock version
• 29:06
  totally of our music. But the dude.
• 29:10
  Yeah, I'm reminded of A Knight's tale and like that that moment
• 29:13
  that it kicks into like, like, I mean, that it's it's that vibe,
• 29:16
  right? Like not, not the music exactly,
• 29:18
  but like the the feeling that you're capturing it again.
• 29:21
  You somehow put us in a fantasy setting.
• 29:23
  Well, playing electric guitar, right?
• 29:25
  Like, like you, you make me feel A and and maybe it's the fact
• 29:29
  that Electra's horror reminds you of lightning and and Akuma
• 29:32
  is a snaky dragon fire. And like, I see conceptually how
• 29:37
  like your brain could leap to that, but that's for for me,
• 29:40
  that's only in hindsight. If I'm, if I'm scoring, if I'm
• 29:43
  in your position, I'm listening to a medieval fantasy campaign,
• 29:46
  I'm Googling fantasy instruments and none of them are electric
• 29:50
  guitar. You know, like I'm.
• 29:52
  Divergent enough I guess in that neuro sets like I have a
• 29:56
  soundtrack going now. Like.
• 29:58
  For us, like and. It's.
• 30:02
  Just that's way I stay focused. I can use the elevator.
• 30:05
  Yeah, I just got best compliment I've ever got, the ultimate
• 30:12
  background music, the hold music in the elevator.
• 30:14
  But yeah, the floor and ceilings were really.
• 30:16
  I discovered there are some things that you can't avoid with
• 30:19
  it or you could avoid but would be very difficult to reinvent
• 30:22
  the wheel. If you add electric guitar to
• 30:24
  orchestra music, it's the biggest you're going to get.
• 30:27
  If you had a hip hop 808 beat to orchestral music and then some
• 30:31
  electric guitar or or EDM wub like that's the biggest.
• 30:35
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:36
  Well, I would say that the. That's the biggest that you're
• 30:38
  going to get, barring if you unless you had 15 minutes to
• 30:40
  hear horns rise. Right.
• 30:42
  Yeah, right. Yeah.
• 30:43
  Or it gets really complicated to start or orchestrating different
• 30:47
  things that sound really cheap on a synth you know.
• 30:49
  So unless you have 12 horns or a time to overlay.
• 30:52
  Just as like I do often forget about, like sometimes I'll
• 30:56
  think, think about a track and I'll I forget that you're also
• 30:59
  composing under the pace of our storytelling, which, which can
• 31:02
  shift like this or that or that and.
• 31:03
  Week to week to week. And my I'm glad that my sound
• 31:06
  effects can some Times Now serve as the place where a sudden
• 31:10
  shift needs to happen or something because like when we
• 31:13
  first started. Literally fucking gold.
• 31:14
  Thank you. They're like, they're like,
• 31:17
  they're like, in addition to being like brain Stemi, they're
• 31:21
  like chapter markers that are so organic where like, I don't have
• 31:24
  to put like this math to it. It's just there intuitively.
• 31:27
  It's so funny because sometimes a lot of times I get sound
• 31:31
  effects first to George and sometimes he gets music to me
• 31:34
  first. I think it's been much more
• 31:36
  often more sound effects to you. But I think I've had one or two
• 31:39
  times where I've gotten to listen to music and then like
• 31:42
  add more sound effects or like like really Polish the episode.
• 31:45
  And I'm like, it's just so funny how we're both sitting here
• 31:47
  like, give me your stuff so I can make my stuff because I I,
• 31:51
  I, your music is so driving. There's like often moments where
• 31:54
  I'm just like, Oh, the sound effect doesn't go need to go
• 31:56
  here because towards that composition point, like episode
• 32:00
  21 I think is an example of where I got music and then had
• 32:03
  the time to return to it and add a little bit, make sure ambiance
• 32:06
  felt perfect and had so many fucking layers with the space
• 32:09
  battle. Space stuff is hard.
• 32:11
  Yeah, space stuff is hard. But it is just so good to have
• 32:13
  your music that's driving. And it's just like towards that
• 32:16
  composition point. I love being like, Oh no, the
• 32:19
  the strings are swelling here like that.
• 32:21
  That's where like and just for for sound visibility, like in
• 32:28
  mixing, if frequencies clash, then one wins out that like you
• 32:32
  don't get you don't always get are able to capture a a pure
• 32:35
  mixture of sound. And I'm like, I'm thinking of
• 32:37
  one example where I really wanted the flap of like parables
• 32:41
  cloak falling and I and just like having the opportunity to
• 32:45
  time it with ebbs and lulls and music is just it's so fun.
• 32:49
  It's such a fun thing to do on my side of.
• 32:51
  Things I'm glad it's fun because like I'm always worried.
• 32:53
  I was always worried that in taking up that space, we might
• 32:57
  lose this really cool sound effect that could have gone
• 32:59
  there. Because I definitely feel like
• 33:01
  you were had the ability to be more particular like to the if
• 33:04
  we're talking about the skills we're bringing to this
• 33:07
  experience and me making the music and you doing these sound
• 33:09
  effects that you hear as you're listening or doing storytelling
• 33:12
  at any time. It I definitely felt like it was
• 33:15
  hard for me to not just do music throughout.
• 33:18
  And I ended up going that direction because it was easier
• 33:20
  for me to score the entire episode than pick where the fuck
• 33:24
  music goes. Yeah, especially when you care
• 33:26
  about the story so much and I'm the person I am.
• 33:29
  Like I'm reading a book and I'm like, oh dude, that was such a
• 33:31
  cool song. Oh shit, I'm reading.
• 33:34
  I think there's I think there's so something so powerful about
• 33:36
  the fact that whenever, whenever there's not music on the show,
• 33:39
  listeners, you can know I made an intentional choice to cut
• 33:43
  something or otherwise diminish it so much in the mix that jeez,
• 33:48
  music cuts out. Because my favorite thing about
• 33:50
  that is especially if it's in the middle of the song, it comes
• 33:53
  when it comes back. Like you're maybe again, it's
• 33:56
  just me, but I can feel that like you're not just picking up,
• 34:00
  you're not just picking up on the bar.
• 34:02
  Like, of course, I'll try to pick a good point like in the
• 34:04
  song that feels measure wise correct to drop in and drop out.
• 34:08
  But like I think there I think you again can feel the
• 34:12
  collective effervescence of that goes into like, no, I'm going to
• 34:14
  listen to this whole thing. I'm going to make sure that like
• 34:17
  every moment has a musical counterpart.
• 34:21
  And if it doesn't, then Rob took it out.
• 34:24
  I'll do layers in and out of just like, you know, normally,
• 34:28
  like if there's strings, there's at least 4 tracks for the
• 34:30
  strings, if it's not just a lead and then there's bass and some
• 34:34
  other type of bass and then rhythm and you know, it could go
• 34:36
  on. But the idea of like letting the
• 34:38
  dice decide the drop, Oh yeah. So just like with the music, it
• 34:43
  is hard sometimes to decide to the point where like where a
• 34:46
  sound effect goes. Totally.
• 34:48
  To when the drop happens with the beat and a lot of times
• 34:52
  we'll I, but my favorite one is somebody describing something
• 34:56
  cool. Music drops out, You know
• 34:58
  somebody, we're going a little bit more and we got like 20
• 35:01
  seconds going on and they're like, OK, the music's like
• 35:02
  fading out. And what's happening?
• 35:04
  And then Rob says go ahead and give me that roll.
• 35:06
  And it's always not 20. And it's like.
• 35:09
  Yeah, yeah. That's.
• 35:10
  My that is my favorite, but even more than like a sword strike
• 35:14
  that lands into a sick beat or like a bass dropper or electric
• 35:17
  guitar hit, my favorite thing is the dice roll.
• 35:19
  That is a very good point that there are moments that like you
• 35:22
  emphasize with like not only song, but silence.
• 35:26
  Like there's, there's so much filling the soundscape of our
• 35:30
  episodes these days that silence just hits so hard.
• 35:32
  And like I, I know that it's such a big decision about like
• 35:35
  for you, like where you place your songs.
• 35:37
  And similarly, like you were saying, sometimes the slash
• 35:40
  doesn't go on the dice roll it often for me and I'm sure for
• 35:44
  you, depends on how clean our resolution is.
• 35:48
  Sometimes, sometimes we'll roll something and it's like, but
• 35:50
  what's the modifier and what's that?
• 35:52
  And one of my favorite things that you've really become
• 35:55
  fantastic at doing is still learning to make those moments
• 35:59
  matter by increasing tension. And like one of my favorite
• 36:02
  tracks is remind me if you have the title of this one on top of
• 36:06
  mind. It's the episode 21 clip I want
• 36:08
  to play and it's the strings that go and.
• 36:15
  Try to guess the influence here. That is literally called Halo
• 36:18
  Chief. Okay, I just watched the the
• 36:25
  some people love some people hate Halo Netflix series.
• 36:28
  I think it's good and I I grew up the game with Rob and we
• 36:32
  played a lot of Halo. That was honestly where we
• 36:35
  learned to deal with our disagreement.
• 36:38
  Certainly. And it like I, I really wanted
• 36:42
  to make something that was not in any way copyright or the same
• 36:46
  thing totally, but I wanted to make something that really
• 36:48
  referenced something that I loved and cared about and have
• 36:51
  the same energy of feeling like running digitally through the
• 36:53
  snow with your brother with a most futuristic weapon.
• 36:57
  I don't, I, I, I mean, I played that soundtrack forever and
• 37:00
  like, yeah, I can hear the influence, but I, I can't hear
• 37:02
  anything exact at all. And my, but my favorite thing
• 37:05
  about it is just like the way that it rises from so low to so
• 37:09
  high. I that like there's room for
• 37:11
  moments of Nat 20. Oh, no, I have disadvantage.
• 37:14
  No, I'm gonna no, I'm gonna Fortune's favor.
• 37:17
  Fortune's favor? Nat 20, Yeah.
• 37:20
  You know, like for because it leaves space for two rounds of
• 37:24
  the the strings to rise and then to reset and to rise and then
• 37:27
  suddenly you break out of it. And like, there's the big moment
• 37:30
  that is true. That's the true skill that I
• 37:32
  think I've really come to appreciate about the way that
• 37:36
  you play music and for our shows, because it's not, it's
• 37:39
  not just me reaching out to composer and being like, hey, I
• 37:42
  need a song that sounds like the Faye Wilde, plus a little bit of
• 37:46
  a little bit of I need the Faye Wilde jazz.
• 37:48
  My players are going to a Faye. Wilde.
• 37:50
  Jazz club, like like beautiful and just like receiving a 10
• 37:54
  minute clip and being like, well you could loop this and like by
• 37:57
  the way, if you want me to make you a 15 minute version, I could
• 37:59
  do that. Yeah, yeah.
• 38:00
  Like that's the extent of my creative ability.
• 38:02
  If I didn't have a a fantastically talented brother
• 38:05
  who's willing to listen to every fucking second of the show him
• 38:08
  and think about it like and not only that, we're I do want to
• 38:13
  play some clips. Maybe we'll have time for we'll
• 38:15
  all say 2 clips. Yeah, we'll cut most of the
• 38:17
  things. Yeah, we'll cut most of the and
• 38:20
  not only that, like the fact that you've you've come to use
• 38:22
  this as like a creative process, like, because at the end of our
• 38:25
  campaign, you now have an album, right?
• 38:27
  Like I mean how many songs total did we did we I?
• 38:31
  Really know we we wrote these songs.
• 38:33
  I, I really feel that I think the total would be if I were
• 38:37
  including things that were like sometimes maybe a 32nd to three
• 38:40
  minute track, hundreds. If I, if I'm saying what some of
• 38:45
  the themes molded into by say like episode 15 and I started to
• 38:50
  get more confident adding elements that were more
• 38:53
  connected to moments, characters, nuance of energy.
• 38:57
  So combat music or, you know, transitions types of energies
• 39:01
  towards like what magic feels like.
• 39:03
  I would say a total of say like 440, some some larger like 30
• 39:09
  minute songs or they get they're like 15 minute songs.
• 39:11
  So cool dude, like just the, the, the creative process that
• 39:15
  you fell into is just awesome to watch and I'm, I'm excited to
• 39:18
  streamline it a little bit more so we can both get a little bit
• 39:20
  more sanity because. Tips to anybody out there trying
• 39:23
  to make an album, just have your favorite person ask you to do AD
• 39:27
  and D campaign and then you have to make the music for it by at
• 39:31
  the end when it's over. But yeah, I think it was really
• 39:35
  cool to find a process and and rediscover, you know, mixing,
• 39:40
  mastering sound design on my end and working with another very
• 39:45
  least at the beginning, very passionate and now very curated
• 39:48
  and practiced sound designer to go back and forth and try to
• 39:52
  figure out what the hell goes here.
• 39:53
  And in that process. I mean, we really with wish
• 39:55
  Hunter like figured out what it would be like to what felt like
• 39:59
  run a larger. Thing that dicide could be
• 40:03
  totally it's going to slow down in the sense of like being
• 40:06
  better at a lot of the elements that we do.
• 40:08
  But I think where the creative mind met the technical mind was
• 40:12
  in the the speed at which we had to create these and figure out
• 40:17
  what the depth I could I could go without not having enough
• 40:21
  time really turned into I think a style that was representative
• 40:26
  of not just like keeping your attention and trying to be just
• 40:31
  background music and add flavour, but also be something
• 40:34
  listenable and reusable. There was something I discovered
• 40:37
  in that process that I think is hard to quantify and that is Rob
• 40:42
  as got a recap every single time.
• 40:45
  I first felt this in the recap and I dragged one of our, the
• 40:49
  first time I'd done this up until like episode 8, everything
• 40:51
  was new music. Yeah, I didn't reuse anything.
• 40:54
  It was very like to the moment I couldn't anyway.
• 40:57
  And then when I started to make things a little bit more
• 40:59
  reusable, meaning like a little bit more generic and not so
• 41:02
  tightly tuned to what's going on that I could fit another moment,
• 41:05
  like playing to the energy when I started to reuse those things,
• 41:09
  I'm like, wow, that really lined up in a weird way.
• 41:12
  And then I started. Doing that, it's almost like I
• 41:14
  can trust my previous past self. It isn't necessarily exactly
• 41:17
  looking at this moment. Not just that, but like the the
• 41:20
  things like. Per.
• 41:21
  Turn, you know, and it was before like you really tried to
• 41:24
  focus on timing with edits like it was.
• 41:26
  Like, Oh yeah, it was just. Organic and I would drag it once
• 41:29
  once I started using layers, at least for my prior music, like a
• 41:32
  drum track or a bass and then adding things over or like
• 41:35
  including a whole prior track with some new changes for like
• 41:39
  theme. It was so wild sometimes to
• 41:41
  insert something intuitively, I'm like, oh, this is a callback
• 41:44
  to Zen's energy from totally this one thing.
• 41:47
  And with the start of Rob introducing it each turn and all
• 41:51
  the drops and insurance and outs, maybe, maybe having to fix
• 41:54
  two things. There was one time on a 25
• 41:57
  minute track that was very, very nuanced.
• 42:00
  I can't even remember which one it is at this time.
• 42:02
  I was like, which land? I hadn't named it, but it's a
• 42:05
  sad track that melds into pretty intense.
• 42:08
  So it's very hard to find things without really timing it to be
• 42:11
  perfect and per turn. And I was like waiting there,
• 42:15
  like I'm gonna have to fix the ending.
• 42:16
  There's no way that this lined up for 25 minutes.
• 42:19
  And Rob says and we return to and it goes.
• 42:25
  Yeah, man, I love that stuff. There's for our listeners.
• 42:30
  I also actually have a home game which is called The Broken
• 42:34
  Realms of Exodus. Dude, I get to talk about Broy.
• 42:37
  Broy, it's me, my brother, my friends.
• 42:42
  Your good good friend my. Good, my good, my good good
• 42:44
  friend and his brother-in-law. So it's a table of brothers and
• 42:49
  my sibling in law was also part of our table for quite a while.
• 42:52
  And the reason I bring that up is because sometimes I use
• 42:56
  Lorescore and I just put it over our session recordings because
• 42:59
  like, I want to listen to an old, like I got to know what's
• 43:02
  coming up for this next week. Yeah, it's just every I I really
• 43:07
  recommend to folks out there, if you want music on your own table
• 43:10
  recordings, toss a lower score track over the whole thing.
• 43:12
  It's not hard. Like that's why I release them
• 43:14
  in in full. I have personally put them over
• 43:17
  my own home game recording then been like, is this curated?
• 43:21
  How did you know? And I think it's like you were
• 43:23
  talking about before or something about home and
• 43:25
  intervals and yeah, just the space between.
• 43:27
  Innate timing. Like, I mean, we talked about
• 43:29
  innate timing and how long sessions should feel when we
• 43:32
  first started playing D&D, you know, like, oh man, it really
• 43:34
  feels like beginning there. It took like an hour and a half
• 43:36
  to three hours to warm up. And we wanted, we wanted like
• 43:38
  this other three to four hours. And we thought that that's how I
• 43:41
  was going to stay. And then we got better.
• 43:43
  It was like, you know, everybody does.
• 43:44
  And we were like, oh, I feel like warmed up after an hour,
• 43:46
  maybe half hour. I want to Sprint for two hours
• 43:48
  now and I want to collapse after.
• 43:50
  We want to jump and, and we want to feel that experience as
• 43:53
  players like the long will go is like 4 hours 'cause we're in it
• 43:56
  the whole time. And I really feel like if you
• 44:00
  want to use the lower score music, it's very cool to use it
• 44:05
  during the campaign. That's great.
• 44:06
  But one thing that I've noticed if you just want to highlight
• 44:09
  something cool your players did totally and you've got a
• 44:11
  recording of it is slap that shit out of there and play it at
• 44:14
  the beginning of your session to get them hyped.
• 44:15
  You know, use, use one of the the bigger tracks or like
• 44:18
  there's some sappy tracks for low moments.
• 44:20
  There's all different types of stuff for different vibes.
• 44:22
  It is built in a world of fantasy meets modern
• 44:27
  personality. Yeah, that's true.
• 44:28
  That's true. And but there is something to I
• 44:31
  mean for. Some space.
• 44:33
  Yeah, absolutely. But there is something to your
• 44:35
  music that's kind of like defies genre and the fact that we are
• 44:38
  playing high fantasy and it's not necessarily high fantasy
• 44:41
  music, but it in my opinion fits really well.
• 44:44
  And I think there's a lot of DND tables out there that probably
• 44:47
  similarly have high fantasy settings that kind of touch
• 44:51
  different. I mean, that's DND.
• 44:52
  When you go to the astral plane, it's not exactly high fantasy
• 44:56
  anymore. It's astral high fantasy.
• 44:58
  That's. What I love about the anime does
• 45:00
  this a little bit. I Love You showed me some cool
• 45:02
  anime where they make one step into the forest and you're
• 45:05
  expecting Studio Ghibli or Ghibli Fairy music, energy piano
• 45:10
  stuff and also an EDM comes on like shit's about to go down.
• 45:13
  Oh God, I love the My Hero soundtrack.
• 45:16
  My Hero Academia. If you haven't listened to it,
• 45:17
  if you haven't watched that show or aren't an anime person, just
• 45:20
  listen to the My Hero Academia soundtrack.
• 45:23
  I'm going to butcher the name, but it's Yuki Hayashi who's the
• 45:26
  music artist. And it's just like these
• 45:28
  fantastic moments of orchestral music mixed with drums and like,
• 45:32
  like you're saying, kind of similar to the EDM drops, like
• 45:35
  the drums just come in at these moments where you're your brain
• 45:38
  wants them, but the scene is not asking for them, right?
• 45:41
  Like, like sometimes they're overly intrusive, but they and
• 45:44
  they become like almost the focal point of the scene as
• 45:47
  you're watching what's going on. And I love how there are similar
• 45:50
  moments in our in our show where like the music almost takes a
• 45:53
  foreground point where it's like, like one of my favorite
• 45:57
  things about orchestral kind of music is that it's so good at
• 46:01
  making you feel what is being translated about what you're
• 46:04
  watching or listening to. And like, so many times I am
• 46:07
  literally transported by the music at the same time that the
• 46:11
  description of a scene is begging me to be transported,
• 46:15
  which, yeah, my voice is good, but I don't know if we could do
• 46:18
  that alone. To be like, right.
• 46:19
  Like to be like you're in an Oasis, Sand.
• 46:25
  I mean, that's a, that's a hard. Thing you're in an Oasis.
• 46:28
  We're quiet here. You can't talk that loud.
• 46:30
  I love that like because it does lead into like, you know what,
• 46:33
  how to pick an outside of picking an instrument and rhythm
• 46:36
  and things like in the dexterity of your play, like how do you
• 46:40
  create this like entering, exiting tension and rise?
• 46:45
  And there's so many elements to it, but a good idea to bring to
• 46:49
  it is if this were playing in your, I was gonna say Walkman.
• 46:55
  Or your iPod. God don't even fucking start
• 46:57
  about mixing for different things like I mean.
• 46:59
  Just the idea, if you had your headphones in and you're walking
• 47:02
  in this environment, would it feel like the movie would make
• 47:06
  sense, You know? Totally.
• 47:08
  Yeah. You know, just gotta be like, is
• 47:10
  this the theme song for me right now?
• 47:12
  You. Triggered me a little bit
• 47:13
  because sometimes I listen to things in the car versus
• 47:15
  headphones and I was like this is different, which of course it
• 47:19
  is. Oh my God, speaker to speaker.
• 47:21
  That's a whole other conversation.
• 47:22
  Holy shit. That is one of my favorite
• 47:24
  things to do is literally listening to sessions unscored
• 47:27
  and sometimes fully unedited and like listening to the rough cut,
• 47:31
  going for a walk and being like, what do I like?
• 47:33
  Can I actually be swept away? And that actually does bring me
• 47:37
  up to what I think is nearing the end of our show.
• 47:39
  Let's play maybe two or three clips, like maybe one.
• 47:42
  We can roll for it. Great idea.
• 47:44
  I have a couple clips chosen chosen now, and I'm sure you
• 47:46
  have a couple moments that we could maybe like visit and chat
• 47:49
  about and mine, a couple of them are for that very specific
• 47:54
  visual reason that we're talking about.
• 47:56
  So hopefully I roll higher. I wanted to do like a hip, hip
• 48:00
  and a crit of like, but I'd honestly, I don't have the
• 48:04
  memory to say. I'm sure there's moments where
• 48:06
  I'm like all that could be better with my PIP, but.
• 48:12
  My only pip in terms of the music, we didn't have the time.
• 48:15
  No, it was like forge ahead with a lot works.
• 48:17
  Yeah, exactly. And I think we made a lot of
• 48:19
  choices that felt best. I look, I, you know, I'm not
• 48:23
  going to return to old work and be like, this needs to be
• 48:25
  different. But like I'm so excited to have
• 48:27
  the time and few and like again, the language and communication
• 48:29
  skills to be like, what could this be?
• 48:31
  Let's consider this. Maybe not, let's try it, but now
• 48:34
  let's do this. To that point, dude, one thing
• 48:36
  that I'm so excited for that you mentioned earlier is an extra
• 48:39
  like editing time period because of being more aligned with our
• 48:44
  process and my, my music not getting to you a day before we
• 48:47
  post or on the posting day. The ability to add silence
• 48:50
  because I love, like in my work, I do love just to add music
• 48:54
  everywhere and leave it up to the person who's using sad
• 48:57
  music, you know, to anybody else who wants to hire me out there.
• 49:00
  I, I like to give you a lot so that you can pick and choose
• 49:03
  where it goes. And if you're lacking that
• 49:05
  intuition, we can definitely talk about what we do.
• 49:08
  But Rob, you definitely have the intuition like and I didn't give
• 49:11
  you time to like implement those anti drop and silence moments
• 49:14
  where we just talked. And honestly, if I went back and
• 49:17
  remastered the music for the podcast, yeah, some most of it
• 49:21
  would be clipping music. Well.
• 49:22
  One thing I actually I think is actually really special about
• 49:25
  the all music style of the show is that it's kind of always
• 49:30
  telling you to keep listening totally.
• 49:31
  Which I think that's what I want most out of podcasts and why so
• 49:35
  many shows cut Dead Space and why so many shows like, care so
• 49:38
  much about pacing. Like, I think the music in
• 49:40
  moments of silence allows for more space, right?
• 49:45
  Like when I like without ambiance or anything else that's
• 49:48
  saying this scene is continuing. Your phone didn't just pause.
• 49:52
  Like, silence is only so powerful as the things around
• 49:56
  it. And I I do truly think that,
• 49:57
  like, the style you chose of going more music than not is,
• 50:00
  Yeah, just insane to me. But really really add star style
• 50:04
  of show. Yeah, I mean, if you've ever
• 50:06
  been pissed off by the audio book that you're listening to
• 50:08
  suddenly playing music, I never wanted to be that I I really
• 50:12
  hope that it brought a level of easy listening that enhanced our
• 50:17
  story for for everybody out there.
• 50:19
  And if you feel differently, I love feeling, hearing criticism,
• 50:22
  convents, anything that you got. And if you have praise, I'll
• 50:25
  also hear that too. And if you want to hire him, you
• 50:27
  can also hire me. My sound design services are for
• 50:31
  the right price at your services.
• 50:33
  Hey, Frick Hire. For both of us, I mean.
• 50:35
  Well, I think if you're ever booking us you can just ask for
• 50:37
  RNG, but that's outside the point.
• 50:40
  Let's play some clips and chit chat about it.
• 50:42
  And I think to figure out who get to pick first.
• 50:45
  Let's roll off, brother. OK.
• 50:48
  That's a 2. Man, low rolls but I got a six.
• 50:52
  Nice that OK. What is your choice?
• 50:54
  I think we have time for two or three clips.
• 50:56
  So I've we've talked about a lot of moments.
• 50:59
  Are there any the moments that we chatted about or?
• 51:01
  Let's do for the sake of it. Let's do the most recent.
• 51:04
  OK, cool. I.
• 51:05
  Mean, unless you want to save that for last at all.
• 51:07
  No, that that sounds great to me.
• 51:08
  What moments from our finale are you thinking?
• 51:11
  About Dude, let's go to the recap.
• 51:13
  OK, Hell yeah. So this is the recap from our
• 51:16
  most recent episode, the finale most recent recorded episode.
• 51:20
  I'm not sure where it's supposed.
• 51:25
  To. Yeah, that drop is just great.
• 51:27
  Yeah, so I just finished watching Stranger Things and
• 51:30
  they're like, I really to the props point of like letting
• 51:32
  influences start to affect me. You can hear that.
• 51:38
  Yeah. And it's good to that kind of
• 51:40
  ambience that Stranger Things had in there and like, oh, you
• 51:42
  know, shout out to their finale and stuff.
• 51:44
  That's right around the same time as our release.
• 51:48
  And the beat is something that I like whenever I'm deciding the
• 51:51
  beat, I mean, I'm like, I got to pick something that doesn't
• 51:53
  remind people of other things. Yeah, You know, it's got to
• 51:56
  either be like a walk rhythm or a driving rhythm in this one.
• 52:00
  I feel like it just nailed this energy.
• 52:03
  I love that. Gets the drop out there and I I
• 52:07
  really love in this energy of this song.
• 52:11
  It's one of the first ones where I started to access some of the
• 52:13
  Ableton sounds I'm going to. I'm going to boost it because I
• 52:17
  want to hear the textures a little bit.
• 52:21
  Yeah, there's. So there's so much going on in
• 52:23
  the back there. Yeah, yeah, there's about 14
• 52:25
  layers going to. Yeah, I mean, OK, so listeners,
• 52:34
  be aware, I'm going to turn this up just a little bit louder so
• 52:36
  that you can feel kind of the layers and the depth of the
• 52:38
  music, but we don't always get to portray on the show.
• 52:52
  I love that your character theme and something that you can
• 52:54
  obviously like write like I'm talking about Soraya or like
• 52:56
  whatever the. Drop out, then the light next to
• 52:58
  the lighter rhythm comes in. I can, I can feel what I'm
• 53:02
  saying, like the energy of what I'm saying as you're right,
• 53:04
  yeah. Face is rising in the back.
• 53:08
  You start to hear the lead, the lead analog.
• 53:14
  Out of. That I sometimes I'll have a
• 53:16
  lead in drum like that. That normally means it wasn't a
• 53:18
  moment. It was.
• 53:21
  It was leading to something. Cool.
• 53:23
  Like that. And that was only drums for like
• 53:26
  half a bar. Yeah, you're just so good about
• 53:28
  theming those moments where like action needs to be kind of felt.
• 53:32
  Yeah, this is one of my proudest.
• 53:34
  I think mainly because it was honestly influences that I was
• 53:38
  absorbing at the time. It was true to the recap song
• 53:42
  and theme the entire time. So this is the same song that
• 53:45
  you hear on episode 1, just redone with a bunch of different
• 53:50
  instruments. So cool, so cool.
• 53:52
  I love this drum beat. It's just it's supposed to
• 53:57
  tickle in a way that makes you listen to it, but then fall out
• 54:00
  of it and let it just kind of echo.
• 54:01
  Yeah, it just it really reminds me of odd and like the the the
• 54:05
  staircase and like these shifting stair stairs and
• 54:08
  doorways and like again towards the not necessarily high fantasy
• 54:14
  instrumentals being used here. Like this is space and and and
• 54:18
  you can you can like combine with the reverb that I put into
• 54:21
  episodes for voice. Reverb was a human like.
• 54:24
  Oh, I guess do you? Do you ever find the drones or
• 54:27
  the like? The textures that I add to be
• 54:30
  anti? Helpful.
• 54:32
  No, because they're guiding it. Just like if you have a bunch of
• 54:35
  low end and my low end is competing, I'll have that moment
• 54:38
  highlight you with a lot of high end cool.
• 54:40
  And I'll have like the flute go over and stuff or the drums just
• 54:44
  support you. I have noticed this definitely
• 54:46
  depends on what effects that I do.
• 54:48
  But I love this one mainly because it ends up being to me,
• 54:54
  not only foreshadowing of the future fight with Crave because
• 54:57
  this comes in right before we finish off Crave Totally.
• 55:01
  I think it's attractive for and it also is like tied to the very
• 55:05
  beginning of the campaign as like the first song and our
• 55:07
  animatic and everything. It just it's in us also a
• 55:10
  remnant, what started our energy.
• 55:12
  I can hear it now. I can.
• 55:13
  I can hear it. The lucky few that made it till
• 55:19
  the end. You might hear a story of
• 55:23
  bloodshed and glory and a wish a friend.
• 55:28
  Yeah. Dude.
• 55:30
  So like, technically this was all built off an acoustic guitar
• 55:34
  song that I wrote for a campaign as a Bard, and it really
• 55:39
  inspired what I felt like was a party's energy of, like, leaving
• 55:43
  a space behind to find a story. And Rob so graciously included
• 55:49
  it. I love I love the lucky few I
• 55:50
  one of the things I've always loved about the lucky few is
• 55:53
  that the lyrics speak of an adventure that I I.
• 55:56
  Play that I. Mean like like in but there it's
• 55:59
  in such a way that like it could fit many stories.
• 56:02
  And then when you kind of fine-tuned it for Wish Hunter,
• 56:05
  like I first of all felt honored because I was like, I was like,
• 56:08
  dude, these are lyrics that you're kind of always fucking
• 56:10
  and finding. Like the I know that the the
• 56:12
  structure that you've built is a thing that is like set in stone,
• 56:16
  but the way that you have been so ready to modify it into
• 56:20
  whatever it needed to be for Wish, Yeah, just so cool.
• 56:23
  Do you want to take a listen to Lucky of You?
• 56:24
  I would totally listen to lucky of you if we have if you want to
• 56:27
  clip some of any of this, it's fine.
• 56:29
  But I I really love that this whole campaign to me, so it felt
• 56:34
  like sometimes one song expanded, collapsed, redone with
• 56:38
  a few other elements in there. You know, like to the question
• 56:41
  of how many songs I've made on this technically if I wanted to
• 56:43
  be like music theory correct before.
• 56:47
  Yeah, insane. OK, well let's take a listen to
• 56:50
  Lucky Few and then I'll toss a clip in and then maybe we'll end
• 56:53
  our time and but maybe we can do a little bit of extra time for
• 56:55
  the Patreon because I'm having a good time, but I don't know
• 56:58
  about you. Me too.
• 56:59
  Cool. And here is a lucky few by 1
• 57:01
  madly musical mind that is my brother George.
• 57:16
  Ultra leading into the intro. So fun dude.
• 57:21
  The stars above tell us a story of old.
• 57:29
  The heavens beat, and below the fires below the seven completed
• 57:39
  the 8th turn to unfold. As I remember, that's how the
• 57:48
  story go. It's a wish hunter.
• 57:51
  Yeah, and like it. They told me of riches and dead
• 57:56
  men and. Indigenous beyond?
• 57:58
  The rising Rd. it might be. The trick is we ran from those
• 58:04
  witches before they took all our soul.
• 58:08
  Love the back reverb but I added a touch of it at the end of
• 58:11
  this. We only knew the lucky few.
• 58:15
  That made it. Till the end, that's my end.
• 58:19
  There you might hear a story of bloodshed and glory and a wish
• 58:24
  from the dead. We wandered the lands with Fade
• 58:32
  in our hands where Wizards told us to roam.
• 58:36
  Just real echoes of treasure or soul.
• 58:40
  It would measure of any who dare.
• 58:43
  Behold we found what we'd find running from time our hope held
• 58:52
  till stars awoke. They never didn't say what we
• 58:58
  lose on the way. A cruel and fateful joke.
• 59:05
  We only knew the lucky few that made it till the end.
• 59:13
  You might hear a story of blood without glory and a wish for a
• 59:19
  friend. We only knew the lucky few that
• 59:27
  fell along the bend. They might just miss that long
• 59:35
  dead wish they saved for the end.
• 59:43
  Gosh, one of my favorite, absolute favorite songs I've
• 59:45
  ever heard you play, man. And for it to be at the end of
• 59:48
  this campaign, with these lyrics that so feel so perfect to wish
• 59:53
  Hunter. Doesn't it feel perfect to like,
• 59:55
  if I'm going to be proud about it, not insecure about all the,
• 59:58
  you know, the vocal inflections I want to change?
• 1:00:00
  And all that. Sure, go rework 1000 times,
• 1:00:03
  yeah. So I love that I felt like I
• 1:00:06
  captured what it felt like to finish AD and D campaign, to
• 1:00:11
  finish AD and D campaign. Not not only that, I think one
• 1:00:13
  of my favorite details is that you say eighth turn, which the
• 1:00:17
  our campaign ends on the ninth turn.
• 1:00:19
  The 8th turn is arguably the transition point of the three
• 1:00:23
  Wizards. So it's like, it's like he's a
• 1:00:26
  prophet before it all happened. Exactly and and and it's just.
• 1:00:31
  A we're talking about, See, you're informing me about the
• 1:00:34
  Yeah. No, but you're talking about not
• 1:00:36
  at the same time. You're talking about the tragedy
• 1:00:38
  of the three Wizards during the 8th turn and what that eighth
• 1:00:41
  turn accomplishes for the ninth turn, which is like if you only
• 1:00:46
  knew that the lucky few that come next time if you.
• 1:00:49
  But you can't know the lucky few because they're not us.
• 1:00:51
  They're not the Wizards 3 They're not wish time and luck.
• 1:00:54
  They're Parable, Zen and Cassie. Yeah, I guess if you get into
• 1:00:57
  the Canon of it, it's you. I sing the chorus 3 times.
• 1:01:01
  Fourth time being a resident. Hey, we're we're done.
• 1:01:03
  But it's like it's kind of like who I would know then would be a
• 1:01:09
  fortune, fate and favor luck, time and wish parables in and
• 1:01:13
  cast. Yeah yeah.
• 1:01:14
  And prayer promise and potential otherwise.
• 1:01:16
  And prayer, promise and potential and the the neck and
• 1:01:20
  the last one being a sad resonance of it could be.
• 1:01:24
  Yeah, just gosh, There's a word I learned recently, which is
• 1:01:27
  dramaturg or dramaturg. I believe it's dramaturg,
• 1:01:31
  perhaps both. But dramaturgy or dramaturgy,
• 1:01:35
  don't quote me on it, but I do know what it is.
• 1:01:38
  It is. It's a role that you'll often
• 1:01:40
  find in theatre or sometimes movies, but anything that
• 1:01:44
  requires performance and where performance has happened in a
• 1:01:47
  certain way for many years, like dramaturg.
• 1:01:52
  Dramaturics are typically brought on to projects to like
• 1:01:55
  help characters find growth and arcs that make sense.
• 1:01:58
  They they're they do a lot of what Adm does, which is like,
• 1:02:02
  Hey, players, what do you see the seed of this theme and where
• 1:02:07
  do you find your character taking on tropes and like what
• 1:02:10
  tropes do you want to avoid? What tropes you want to live
• 1:02:12
  through and then helping that story come to fruition through
• 1:02:16
  that lens. A lot of times they're brought
• 1:02:17
  on to products that have like long histories that you want to
• 1:02:20
  both honor and also do something new and maybe reference
• 1:02:23
  something. It's such a varied role, but one
• 1:02:27
  thing that makes it very important is that it allows for
• 1:02:29
  consistency totally, and growth. And one thing that I've loved
• 1:02:32
  about this is just working closely on a project like this
• 1:02:35
  with you. And Like Lucky Few is just a
• 1:02:37
  perfect example of how I've seen your art grow.
• 1:02:41
  Thanks man. In terms of the dramaturic
• 1:02:43
  aspect of it, like I think we both do that all four of us, my
• 1:02:48
  beautiful wife and my beautiful not wife and my brother and I
• 1:02:50
  all just I think do a great job of drama turguing for one
• 1:02:54
  another and being like, but remember to truly honor what you
• 1:02:58
  wanted out of this way back when.
• 1:02:59
  It would be like this. And I think talking to old
• 1:03:02
  George from two years ago when, whenever the song with three
• 1:03:05
  years when we a while ago, whenever you first concepted of
• 1:03:09
  this Bardix song for to become what it is in this moment is
• 1:03:13
  just very, very, very cool to me, to the the dramaturgist in
• 1:03:17
  me. Yeah, I mean, I I wrote it in an
• 1:03:19
  afternoon with Dramaturg. I think I wrote it in an
• 1:03:21
  afternoon with Mayas help. And that word is so cool because
• 1:03:24
  I didn't. I really, I feel like it
• 1:03:26
  encapsulates the energy at the table of the zeitgeist of what
• 1:03:31
  we're doing. Smite Geist is what we're doing.
• 1:03:35
  I'm I want to listen to some sound effects.
• 1:03:37
  I don't like a few is is very synonymous or analogous with
• 1:03:42
  Wish Hunter. But I do think the growth of
• 1:03:44
  seeing sound effects come in in the same way.
• 1:03:47
  I felt like I was in the background with the music.
• 1:03:48
  Yeah. I felt like waiting for big
• 1:03:50
  moments to use sound effects, and then it's slowly becoming
• 1:03:54
  part of the style of Witch Hunter.
• 1:03:56
  In the same way the music grew, I I felt like I was almost once
• 1:03:59
  the sound effect started, it did feel without hyping you at all,
• 1:04:04
  without trying, that I had to keep up.
• 1:04:06
  Oh, well, thank you. I've, I felt like there was a
• 1:04:09
  lot of moments that I felt like the music was lifting too much,
• 1:04:11
  right? Like like that.
• 1:04:13
  I wanted it to be an addition and there was a lot of times
• 1:04:17
  where I wouldn't add sound effects.
• 1:04:18
  Like I almost didn't add a waterfall in Rave Part 1 because
• 1:04:21
  I was like, it'll drown out the twinkling.
• 1:04:25
  You're like worried it's gonna make this huge impact, then you
• 1:04:27
  do it. You're.
• 1:04:28
  Like that's what this is like I wanna hear water and piano
• 1:04:31
  together. And yeah, same here.
• 1:04:34
  Like early on I remember, oh, should I put this very harsh
• 1:04:37
  sound? Like is it going to be the right
• 1:04:39
  note? Like, I mean, and like these
• 1:04:42
  days I do, we do actually put that level of intention into it,
• 1:04:44
  but it's not out of the fear. It's out of like wanting to mix
• 1:04:47
  so well. Like one thing I do very
• 1:04:49
  intentionally is I never put in a sound effect raw.
• 1:04:52
  I never just like plop it in there always.
• 1:04:55
  Not only do I fade it in and out, but I normally put in a
• 1:04:58
  couple of duplicates for it to reverb and fade really well into
• 1:05:02
  the music. Totally.
• 1:05:04
  Because I never want the the tone of however that sound
• 1:05:07
  effect was recorded or synthesized to suddenly be so
• 1:05:10
  different that it's like I'm in a different place outside of,
• 1:05:14
  yeah, the vibe of the show. And that happens if you just
• 1:05:16
  plop it in there. Yeah, different room tone, like
• 1:05:18
  the compression values are different, meaning like it just
• 1:05:20
  sounds bigger or smaller, just not in the right place I guess.
• 1:05:23
  But yeah, that is so cool to hear the general growth in the
• 1:05:27
  SFX, like inspiring the music and the music inspiring the SFX
• 1:05:31
  to the point where like we're doing this cinematic video game
• 1:05:34
  energy with like what felt like anime level energy.
• 1:05:38
  Yeah, thank you. At the same time, holding this
• 1:05:41
  mundaneness of like growing from where we came from.
• 1:05:45
  And and it's not like we just suddenly like started doing
• 1:05:48
  space music or we just started say, OK, now we're this big.
• 1:05:51
  It there was an organic continuum where it was like, OK,
• 1:05:55
  this happens next. I'm very excited to get back to
• 1:05:58
  stories that aren't as cinematically massive as we have
• 1:06:02
  come to come to love. Like I.
• 1:06:04
  I now as a creative have to consider my bandwidth as what I
• 1:06:08
  like. Like this was an an endeavour
• 1:06:10
  that I can only take on once every once in a while.
• 1:06:12
  Like our next major campaign we will take on with like greater
• 1:06:17
  skill but with the same amount of wanting to improve and add
• 1:06:21
  on. And I know that I need to
• 1:06:23
  prevent burnout by like going to things that are like, like, I
• 1:06:27
  hope to do something that's like, you can get along with
• 1:06:29
  just the sound of wind rolling and a little bit of, and then,
• 1:06:36
  and then you have the space of 5 minutes because like the sound
• 1:06:39
  of cacti in the distance is good or whatever.
• 1:06:41
  I don't know what we'll do, but. Yeah, and I do think that'll
• 1:06:43
  help to force, you know, if is it spoilers talking about any
• 1:06:47
  kind of. Westerns it it has not been
• 1:06:50
  announced in any way I have been kicking around some ideas of
• 1:06:53
  what we'll be doing next and I am currently considering an
• 1:06:57
  outlaws type adventure so yeah yeah we we shall see but you
• 1:07:02
  know me I got to make it complicated so it's not going to
• 1:07:04
  be just straight a straight western I'm.
• 1:07:05
  Just excited to be trapped in a genre and not be able to expand
• 1:07:09
  out of it so much because Wish Hunter did have a lot of room
• 1:07:11
  for touching different genres of music kind of or styles or
• 1:07:15
  energies of songs. And I think it'll be very cool
• 1:07:18
  to be kind of like more niche with it.
• 1:07:20
  And I think it will create more dynamics, it'll create more
• 1:07:23
  theme and it will also simplify the whole fucking process.
• 1:07:27
  Yeah, exactly like sticking within one.
• 1:07:29
  Very clear. The stereotype, stick to it.
• 1:07:31
  Yeah. But yeah, I want to hear what I
• 1:07:33
  think your favorite, whether it's the end result or the work
• 1:07:36
  that went into it, A sound effect that really impacted you.
• 1:07:39
  I've got three I think that spring to mind immediately, two
• 1:07:41
  from the finale and one from episode 21.
• 1:07:44
  And I think because I love the episode 21 one so much, yeah,
• 1:07:48
  I'm going to hold off on that one till the end.
• 1:07:50
  And for now, I'm going to play 2 sound effects.
• 1:07:53
  That they're sound effects only and you tell me.
• 1:07:57
  Oh, we have to figure out the OK.
• 1:07:59
  You try to figure out the scene that this is from in the finale.
• 1:08:02
  All right, all right. And I'll tell you if you're
• 1:08:04
  right or not, and then we'll play the full clip after.
• 1:08:06
  Cool, this is again an SFX only clip from the finale.
• 1:08:29
  Dude, that's it. That's the whole thing.
• 1:08:31
  Freaking wild, all right? Any guesses?
• 1:08:34
  I'm I'm torn between a crave moment when he is transitioning
• 1:08:42
  in one of his not necessarily phases, but we need like yells
• 1:08:46
  at us. Oh, OK.
• 1:08:47
  And the other one is an attack from parable.
• 1:08:50
  You got it with the second one, an attack from parable.
• 1:08:53
  It's also, you're also kind of right that it's actually a
• 1:08:55
  mixture of both, because it is not only an attack from parable
• 1:08:57
  on one side, but you hear that sharp cut off in the middle.
• 1:09:00
  Yeah. What is that?
• 1:09:01
  That is Crave whipping up a blade of disaster.
• 1:09:03
  It's the moment where you guys stand off and it's one of my
• 1:09:05
  most visually strong moments that I have because you can feel
• 1:09:10
  on either side, or at least in my mind, like the the dual
• 1:09:15
  natures of the bright white combined with the dark black and
• 1:09:19
  the energy of the sounds I make clash in the middle because he
• 1:09:24
  it's like interrupting the beauty of the blade of the the
• 1:09:26
  last breath and so. It sounds like an energy storm
• 1:09:30
  with somewhere in the middle. This extreme coordination
• 1:09:35
  happening like a like a microchip.
• 1:09:36
  You know, when the little thing comes up, I think it would have
• 1:09:38
  said something. Oh, that's my and that's one of
• 1:09:40
  my favorite themes that I've come to love for parable.
• 1:09:43
  Like I used to be like, like you were saying, afraid of being a
• 1:09:46
  little bit repetitive or or not wanting to be.
• 1:09:49
  Every episode this is something new.
• 1:09:51
  Yeah, but like, sometimes, like the sound of it is my, it's,
• 1:09:55
  it's what it sounds like to turn into a genie.
• 1:09:58
  Like now, like it because I chose to use that for the very
• 1:10:01
  first moment. It's never felt right to change
• 1:10:03
  it. Like sometimes I'll make it a
• 1:10:05
  little bit windier, but it's always starts with that sound.
• 1:10:09
  And yeah, so here's here's the full clip.
• 1:10:13
  He's just going to look at his friends doing so much damage and
• 1:10:16
  he's going to fly straight towards him and he's going to
• 1:10:20
  summon his Blade of the Last breath.
• 1:10:22
  As you fly towards him, you see him gathering up the energy of
• 1:10:26
  the Blade of Disaster to cast next.
• 1:10:28
  So this is 2 Gin swordsmen flying at each other from across
• 1:10:34
  a barren wasteland with cosmics. That's so freaking sick like.
• 1:10:39
  But and like so glad that I have the music in that last little
• 1:10:42
  clip, because that's my my favorite track.
• 1:10:44
  That's that's swelling that. That is my favorite too, that's
• 1:10:48
  why I saved it for the last one even even know it wasn't new.
• 1:10:50
  I wanted the last one to where we actually destroyed Crave to
• 1:10:53
  be. And if you've been listening to
• 1:10:56
  us and enjoying it so far, then unfortunately I'm going to have
• 1:11:00
  to stop you here because the rest of it's going to be over on
• 1:11:02
  our Patreon. We originally planned RNG as a
• 1:11:05
  patron only and had such a fun time and talked for such a long
• 1:11:09
  time that this first hour we dropped on the main feed.
• 1:11:12
  But if you would like to hear us continue our conversation about
• 1:11:14
  actual plays as art, please head on over to Die size.com.
• 1:11:19
  So with that, thank you for joining us by the die side, Die
• 1:11:20
  Siders. Now go out there and be twice
• 1:11:23
  kinder.