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Fran Hauser: Create a Career You Love Through Bold Curiosity · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the lead or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold-grown mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they faced challenges or doubled along their way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own culture.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be created.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the bold lounge.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited this morning to have Fran Hauser, who is a startup investor and also the author of two books.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't have them, you need to get them The Myth of the Nice Girl and Embrace the Work, Love Your Career.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Fran.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Lee.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very excited.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need too much of an introduction because I think a lot of our listeners most likely know you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: But in brief, if you were to do your one-minute intro, can you introduce yourself to the listeners?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I am a former media executive, turned startup investor.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I left the corporate world 10 years ago to do angel investing.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I am really passionate about leveling the playing field for women.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So most of the investments that I make are in female founders.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I also write and speak about women's leadership, behaviors that are holding us back at work and how we can achieve careers that we love without becoming people that we hate.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a mom, I'm a mom of two boys.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you're very busy.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So on top of everything you're doing, you have lots of good things happening at home as well.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think from the perspective of what I'd love to jump into is kind of the boldness of your career.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, we spoke briefly, just you know, there's been some career changes and things you've done.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if you would define bold, what does bold mean to you?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say that what bold means to me is unabashedly going after something when you're not quite sure what the outcome is going to be.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think a lot of things people, when you hear that definition, they may say, well, what keeps someone from doing that?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we can talk a little bit about that as well.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about your life and your bold, when was the first time you remember kind of you would slot the line for you of being bold?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's actually very clear for me.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very early on in my career when I was working at Coca-Cola Enterprises and I was running finance for the New York division.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was a great job working for one of the world's most admired companies.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I knew that I didn't want to stay in finance.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just, when I when I looked into the future, what I saw was a role that was much broader, you know, more of like a general management type role where I was running all aspects of a business.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And out of the blue, like I got a call from an executive recruiter about a job at Movie Phone, which do you remember movie phone?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm old enough to remember.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So this was back in like 1997, I want to say, somewhere around there, where it was 777 film and they were launching moviephone.com.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really kind of at the beginning of the internet, and they were, you know, launching Show Times and being able to buy movie tickets online.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they had a senior role that they were looking to fill.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was the SVP finance and administration.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I ended up meeting with the founders, loving them, basically telling them that, you know, look, what I want for myself is more of a general management type role.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if I come and work at Movie Phone, much smaller company than Coca-Cola, I want to make sure that I'm doing more than just finance.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I really want to make sure that I'm getting my hands wet and I'm, you know, learning more about sales and marketing and strategy and operations.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they were very open to that.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a big condition for me.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: I took the job and I went back and told my boss at Coke.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember everyone at Coke saying, you're crazy.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how can you be like you're on the CFO path?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could be the CFO of the Coca-Cola company one day.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you give that all up to go to work for this very early stage company, not even sure if it'll be successful or not?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really because I knew that if I stayed at Coke, like finance was my path.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And while I loved finance as a foundation, I didn't want to do that, you know, full time for the rest of my career.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a huge risk, you know, leaving a company that was so stable, that was so successful, that was a global brand, leaving that for a very early stage company, which, you know, carried a lot of risk.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to tell you, Lee, it was the best thing.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was the best thing that I could have done because it got me into the internet, it got me into digital, it got me into media.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Movie phone ended up being acquired by AOL.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up going to work for AOL.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up running Movie Phone as a division of AOL.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I got the general management job that I wanted.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: From there, I went over to Time Inc., the world's largest magazine publisher.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it really changed the trajectory of my career in such a positive way.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely your bold move puts you on a path that you hadn't predetermined.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think absolutely a lot of boldness in there, not only of making the switch from a company to an unknown company or a smaller startup, but also you negotiated and you advocated.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's true.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad you brought up the negotiation part because, you know, when I went back to Coke, they countered.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went back to Movie Phone and I ended up getting, you know, a better compensation package from Movie Phone in terms of salary and options.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the options were really important because we did end up having an exit.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: We were acquired.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: So there was real value to those options.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the negotiating part, that was actually the first time that I negotiated my salary, believe it or not.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, up until then, it was always like just so grateful, you know, so grateful to have this job.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, thank you very much.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the the first time that I really realized the power of negotiating and advocating for oneself.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, it kind of sets you on this path to ultimately end up at time and a lot of good things in between and learning.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: One thing people I think think bold means like you're fearless and you just jump without thought and you just do things.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that is some folks' definition of it, but a lot of the times it's very thoughtful, it's pragmatic, it still has that unknown, but it's led you to where you are now.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's always like amazing to me, just with some of the things that I've done.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's just I didn't plan it out perfectly when I was 20 years old to say here's where I'd be today.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: But man, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change anything because I think each piece is a learning to that.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you talked a little bit about leaving stability too, which I think that's something that when we think about finding that career that's aligned with who we are and what our purpose is, a lot of the people will say, Well, my job I have now is very stable, it has benefits, it has retirement.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: But in the world today, you can see there are people being, you know, let go from what would be considered stable roles or stable companies.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So 97, you're you're making that switch very different time in many ways.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: But what does that feel like when you know you're making that move from stability to unknown to startup?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it really depends on where you are in your life.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, I do have people who come to me, especially I would say over the last year, who are going through these existential crises and they're they're kind of questioning, you know, coming out of the pandemic, we're all questioning, we're questioning the meaning of like everything in our lives.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I have had people come to me and say, look, I'm in this like really stable job, but I'm kind of like itching to do something different.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, my first question to them is always from a financial perspective, you know, can you afford to take the risk of, you know, leaving the stable job to do something that financially could be very risky?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if the answer to that is no, I really can't afford to take that risk, then often what I'll suggest is, you know what, maybe stay in the stable job for a little bit longer.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, can you find a side hustle?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Can you create something that like for me?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was when I was at Time Inc., I started angel investing.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: I started, you know, doing startup investing on the side.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: That was something I did for two years before I decided to go, you know, full on.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So is there something that's going to bring you joy that, you know, will really allow you to be creative and innovative that you can start, you know, and then see like how does it feel?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Can you make money, you know, but before you make that big jump?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that might be a more pragmatic, a more thoughtful way to make that kind of transition.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I think so much of it depends on where you are.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: If financially you're at a point where you can take a bigger risk, then why not?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but I think you you do have to really have that self-awareness.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a one size fits all answer.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important to recognize that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or there may be something in between.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you would have asked me that question in August of 20, can you financially do this?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: The answer would be absolutely not.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: But what is the risk of not making the move?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, was I bootstrapped, I used our savings, we we put off certain things, did not do things we had planned, and I had a runway.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I planned like where I would need to get off this ride if it wouldn't work.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So thoughtful, pragmatic, but still unknown financially.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was the main person bringing in the income.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of responsibility there.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the price of not doing it, I think would have been my health and my mental state and all those other things.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, gotta do it.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that Lee, I think, is really important.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: This idea of really understanding like where are you from an emotional well-being perspective.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if you're at a place where like you're working in a really toxic environment where you're feeling burnt out, that is untenable.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a situation that you have to get out of, right?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And for 100%, I could not agree with that more.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I'm more talking about the job where the culture is like a really nice culture.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's aligned with your values, like it's good enough, you know, you're making really good money.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my point of view on that is like you may not be as energized and as jazzed, and there may not be as much joy as you'd like.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, you deserve more because we all deserve careers that we love.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I really believe that.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's coming up with a plan to get there.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily, oh my God, I have to leave today, but like, can I give myself six months?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Can I give myself a year?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that, and honestly, that's really the point of my second book, which just came out in March.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Embrace the work, love your career.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's really all about how do you create a career action plan, a thoughtful framework to make sure that you're planting seeds, that you're laying the foundation to get you to a place where you're feeling fulfilled in your career, because we all deserve that.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely not a one size fits all in what I did, what you did, what someone else does.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's all individual.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's important.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the steps don't need to be big, they can be smaller steps that lead you there.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I love about your book, the most recent one is like it really walks you through that, whether it's meditation or even coloring or just even, you know, creating the visual of what you're looking for.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think it helps people kind of walk through that.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely something for anyone that is feeling in that space of something's misaligned or not really bringing them as much joy as it used to.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: It probably means you're growing and evolving and you need to think through what may be your next step.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or even at the same organization, too.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it doesn't mean you always have to leave where you are.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: It can just be redefining what your role is.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I love that because I have to tell you, one of the most surprising things that I'm hearing from readers of this book is that what they've discovered is that there is a part of their job that brings them joy.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's figuring out how can they double down on that part?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: How can they do more of that?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: When I was at Time Inc.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: and I'd been there for eight years, and I had a great run there.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I really loved the time that I spent there.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: But after eight years, I was definitely starting to feel a little itchy.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I did this exercise and I have this exercise in the book where I looked at my calendar for the prior like two or three months, and I picked out the meetings that put a smile on my face.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I really thought about like, okay, what was it about these meetings that I enjoyed?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, was it the type of problem that I was solving?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Was it the skills that I was using?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Was it the people that I was meeting with?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And what I realized is that the part of my job that I really enjoyed was meeting with founders of startups because I was meeting with them to try to come up with ways to partner.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I had these legacy brands, People Magazine, InStyle, Entertainment Weekly.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I would be meeting with startups, you know, technology startups, to kind of like try to come up, be innovative, and try to find ways that we can be helpful to each other.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I loved that part of my job.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized, like, wow, what if I could do more of this?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really leaned into that.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I proposed to the company that we launch an innovation lab, which I ended up running.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: I launched with my colleague John Canarala this startups, 10 startups to watch franchise that we, you know, we did this big like award ceremony every year.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I was able to really like figure out how do I do more of this in my current role.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I'm hearing from readers is they're like, they're reconnecting with their work by figuring out and their company, by the way, by figuring out what is it about my job that I do like and how can I do more of that?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: The answer isn't always I have to leave or I have to pivot or I have to do something completely different.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: The answer might it might exist within the the current company that you're working for.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to remind people what could you do more of and what could you do less of?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the way that you defined it, even kind of like making the tea chart of the pro-con or what puts a smile on your face, you know, for me it was always whatever meetings were more strategic, wherever we could be creative, where we could be innovative and we could push the boundary.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, those weren't all happening eight hours a day, but those were the ones where I got the most joy and the felt like, okay, how do I do more of that?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so as I even started off, I was like, so where do I start?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: After over 20 years being in corporate, a lot of creative ideas that were kind of just bottled up.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: So how do I kind of put them into action?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So thinking about that too was fun just to be able to kind of free that a bit.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And exploring stuff, I think you can you know still stay in your role and try that art class, take that, you know, go out and and do some things.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you were doing angel investing on the side while you were doing it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then that was like, wow, that was a powerful, joyful moment for you.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I need more of that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, and also, you know, my kids were so young, they were they were babies, you know, my two boys.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, what I one of the things that I realized was that I just I wanted to spend more time with them.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really hard, you know, the the role that I had was a it was a really big job.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was commuting into the city and I had worked so hard with my husband to have this family.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we adopted both both of our boys, and I just had this like moment of like, gosh, we worked so hard to have this family, but I'm not seeing them like during the week.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I literally like I was getting home at like eight o'clock at night.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just such a wonderful opportunity for me to say, you know what?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really enjoying this angel investing.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do it full time, and it's gonna give me the flexibility to be with my family more.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just like the perfect confluence of just like everything kind of coming together.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think let's talk about that for a little bit.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you've helped over last like looked, it was 30 plus, so but it may be even more now.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Companies get started in primarily female founders, if not 100% female founders.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about what you do in that particular area?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, you know, what happens is if you have a business idea and the idea requires funding.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not something that, you know, that you can bootstrap.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: What you do is you fundraise.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you can fundraise from lots of different kinds of investors.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's there's venture capital funds out there, you can take out a loan, or you can take funding from angel investors, which is what I am.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So an angel investor is an individual, right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't run a fund.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not investing other people's money, I'm investing my own money.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really incredible because I get to work with founders who are values aligned, who are building products that I want to see out in the world.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, in addition to writing a check, the fun part of the job is really working with them, working with them on the product, working with them on the business model, you know, opening doors for them, making introductions that could help accelerate their business, whether it's an introduction to a client, a partner, you know, another investor.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, and usually what happens, Lee, is because I do have over 30 companies at this point, you know, there's always like, I would say three to five that at any given point in time like really need my help, you know, and the rest of them are just kind of like chugging along.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing their thing, or maybe they're not doing well and they're kind of planning on dissolving or whatever.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: But there's there's usually like three to five that really need my help.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's wonderful, you know, because I get to choose.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel so blessed that I'm at a point in my career where I get to choose the people that I work with and the projects that you know I work on.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I can make those decisions, right?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I have like full agency over that.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been really great.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I focus on female founders is because they're underserved.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, only 2%, 2% of early stage funding goes to women, 98% goes to men.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's something that I learned when I was at Time Inc.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it was something that I realized I I wanted to be a part of changing that.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been a huge focus of mine.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I've talked to obviously other founders and entrepreneurs who are, you know, raising capital.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the stories I've heard of some of the meetings they've had are horrendous.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the things that they hear or things that are said to them, like I wouldn't think that that would happen, but it does.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I bet you have heard these stories too.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that you're helping people with their pitch decks or kind of just being a one-to-one, like even just giving ideas and then actually helping, you know, 30 plus companies get going and understand how to keep going.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: That has a level of servitude that I think is incredible because it's neat.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't expect it to be as hard as it is.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know a lot about that particular world.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that can also hold people back too from maybe trying something new.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: What advice would you give someone who wants to just learn more, figure that out?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because maybe that is the next path they want to take, but it just feels so overwhelming.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, it's interesting because I when I think about being a timing and recognizing like how much I loved working with startups.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I would have made this change if I hadn't had this coffee meeting with this young woman, Soraya Darby, who was a founder.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And she said to me, She said, Fran, you know, when I look around, I have so many female friends who want to launch businesses, but they don't know how to get started.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: When they look up, they don't see female angel investors, they don't see female mentors.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And she she literally said to me, You could be that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you could be the investor, the advisor, the mentor that so many of these women need.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the reason I wanted to share that story is because it's so important to be meeting with people that do things that are outside of your world.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like the fact that I took that meeting with Saraya, you know, she reached out to me saying, Can we have coffee?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she she was like hoping to pick my brain on something or ask for advice.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up getting the best advice, you know, from her.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And she ended up opening up her network to me because she knew all of these other founders and she knew other investors.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the pieces of advice that I would give is like, be curious, be open, just reach out to people that, you know, where if you're interested in what they're doing, in what they stand for, kind of the impact that they're making in the world, reach out to them.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've reached out to people cold.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite stories is I read this book called Half the Sky by Nick Christoph and Cheryl Wudan years, years, years ago.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And back of the book, they talked about this nonprofit organization, Global Giving.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I really like loved that Global Giving was using technology for good.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I tracked down the CEO and founder of Global Giving, Mari Kuriishi.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Hey, I'm Fran.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I work at people.com and I'd love to be helpful, blah, blah, blah.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Next time I'm in New York, let's get together.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: We did.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I like ended up joining her board.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was on that board for 10 years.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was on that board of directors.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm still, even though I'm not on the board, I'm still such a huge fan and supporter of their work.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just because I was, I was curious.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to learn more, you know, and I reached out to her.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And like that started this whole journey of mine that's really been more in like the impact space.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So reach out to people, meet new people.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like get away from the computer.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just feel like so many of us are like heads down doing work.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really important to pick your head up.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Be curious, be open, meet with people, ask questions because you never know what those interactions might lead to.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think people get nervous to network.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, in the corporate world, I felt very confident.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I never felt imposter syndrome.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I always was interested in learning more about it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: But like in the corporate setting, like I just didn't feel it till I got into the world I'm in now, which is being an entrepreneur and being an innovator and being a founder, where I don't feel as much confidence at certain times.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what you just said is so important for people, just be curious.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Don't put a lot of pressure on yourself about a meeting.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just have a coffee, you know, take a walk, like whatever it may be, there's a lot of fun things that you can do.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And now that we can actually be in person, it doesn't always have to be on Zoom.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a big believer in human interaction in person.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And also know that there is so much value that you can add to any relationship.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you think about Soraya, she was like in her 20s when she was meeting with me, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like the big executive.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she was so helpful to me because she had a network that I didn't have access to.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And she had an understanding of the startup space that I didn't have.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Every single one of us, right?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: We each have those strengths, those skills, those connections, relationships.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we we all have things that we bring to the table.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say, like when you're meeting somebody for the first time, like if you're doing that walk or you're doing the coffee, I love to end every meeting with how can I be helpful to you?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: How can I be helpful?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And is there someone else that you think I should meet with?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe a friend of yours or a colleague, you know, where you think it would be mutually beneficial for us to connect.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Those are always like the last two questions.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: How can I help you?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And is there someone else I should meet?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's important too.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think you never know the connections that someone may have, but even more importantly, you may also be helping someone.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the whole purpose of the podcast.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to amplify other people because there's a connection, there's a oh, there's something that hit in that conversation or something that's meaningful to me.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think what I've realized is that everyone's story is unique and everyone has power to help someone else.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And nine out of ten people are kind.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know, lots of people want to help you.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you talking to me, like you didn't know me before I reached out, but you're like, Yeah, let's talk.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think people may think that it's just not possible, but just I hope that I give hope through our conversations that I have on the podcast and through my work.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, I think the things that you've written about and the guides that you've given to people help people kind of walk through that.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there is some energy just in the startups and the founders and entrepreneurs who are out there trying and putting themselves out there, which is not always comfortable.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're definitely out of our comfort zones when we're doing what we're doing.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And there's just, I don't know, there's power and boldness in being vulnerable, which you're not always taught that.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I really I I couldn't agree with that more.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I'll never forget when I was writing my first book, The Myth of the Nice Girl, and I submitted my first chapter to my editor at home in Mifflin Harcourt, and he he hated it.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like he literally called me and he's like, Fran, like you're great, you're doing a great job of like highlighting other executives and incorporating research, but you need to share your own personal stories, you need to share your failures, your learning moments.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be vulnerable because if you're not vulnerable, this book is not going to be relatable and accessible.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I, it was so hard hearing that feedback, but of course, he was totally right.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I redid the chapter, I ended up being so much more vulnerable.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: It made the chapter so much better.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, like that fed into the rest of the book, right?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I just I don't know if I ever really appreciated how important vulnerability is until that moment.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because in that example, it's about being vulnerable so that readers will find the book, like they can see themselves in the book, right?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing with real life relationships.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know if if you can recall a time where like you were with someone and they just came across like everything is perfect, everything is great.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm perfect, my family's perfect, my job is how does that make you feel?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not so great, right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Versus meeting with somebody who is really honest with you about what they're struggling with.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Then it's like, oh, I don't feel alone.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the only one.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the only one that that's struggling.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: I actually reconnected with a friend, a childhood friend yesterday who I hadn't seen in years.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: We had coffee.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was driving to this coffee date and I was wondering, what's it gonna be like?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna be like on the surface?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna like give our updates about everything that's happened over the last 30 years, or are we going to get vulnerable?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we got vulnerable.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: We we went right there.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like we both talked about our emotional well-being, our physical well-being, what's working, what's not working.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to tell you, I left that meeting feeling seen, feeling heard, feeling really connected, you know, because I was open with her about something that I'm struggling with.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then she shared a situation that she had in her life that was very similar.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I just felt this connection with her that I wouldn't have felt if we were both just like, yeah, everything is great.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's more to the conversations than weather and our children and our titles or jobs or what we're doing.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: I actually find that I find it hard not to be vulnerable now, but I think coming out of the role that I was in, it was definitely not a place where I felt I could actually be me 100% of the time.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: But for 20 plus years, I worked real hard to try to make it work, you know, and and I don't mean that was all negative or bad, but I mean certainly towards the end, it was a total misalignment for me of like who I am and what I was doing.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it was nice to be able to one, you know, going back to your first book, to be nice and it be okay.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you're nice, sometimes people think that's a negative versus a positive, and you sometimes can be seen as someone who can be taken advantage of, or you're not as smart, or whatever.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Insert the negative connotation there.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the other thing is you when you actually get to be you and be vulnerable and be very imperfect.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always say I'm a work in progress, but uh I'm working on it, right?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actively evolving and growing, and like your challenges or your messes or the things that have happened in your life, somehow they they do connect to someone else who just realizes they're not alone or they're not the only one going through it, or wow, I thought you were fearless or not never scared you.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, holy smokes, like I'm fearful daily.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I really embrace kind of knowing that I'm on the path that I'm supposed to be on.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's so much power in what you said about that, just knowing that it's being able to be honest with yourself and then be honest with others that I think is something that the more that you can do that sooner than later, the better.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and you know what too, I think when you are honest with yourself and when you're behaving and acting in a way that's aligned with your values, you're more comfortable in your own skin, which makes you more confident.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really important because over the years, like when I've tried to take on a different persona that's not aligned with my values and with who I am, like, you know, at my core, it just doesn't work.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like I I'm like, what am I doing?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I remember very early on in my career, I got like just some really bad advice about like going over someone's head to make something happen and bad, bad advice.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I ended up really, you know, harming my relationship with this person.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I needed to rebuild the relationship, which I did.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, this is not who I am.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do that.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why did I listen to this person?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this idea of like being comfortable in your own skin and the impact that that has on your confidence is a really important thing to just think about, especially early on in your career.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Don't check qualities like kindness, compassion, and empathy at the door when you go to work, right?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because they they will serve you well.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: If that's who you are as a human being, bring all of it to work.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna allow you to build trust, it's gonna allow you to build relationships.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, like being successful in business at the end of the day is all about relationships.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, kind of when it's happening too.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know when something feels off.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, probably when you got that advice, you knew it wasn't good, but you trusted, or you know, there were reasons why you did it anyway.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: You like, and I think as you the more you embrace who you are and what you're about, and it's in alignment, the next time you try to do something that isn't, like it really clicks with you.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like my most recent example was I was going to a conference this week.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I usually wear like anthropology or something like that, you know, like very flowy.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wearing a flower shirt today.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I match my curtains.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone see their curtains?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I mean, it's just very feminine.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: But at work, it's a blue suit, black suit, all that jazz.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was definitely the world I was in.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I was going to this conference, I was like, Man, I gotta get a blazer, I gotta get a jacket, and like I put it on in the morning and I was like, what in the world?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just didn't even feel right.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up changing.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it was just like I'm still like at this point where I still was trying to, in a way, fit in, but I don't have to do that anymore.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do it anymore.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes you just have to remind yourself you don't have to.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're where you are now because of the work you've done.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not happy where you are, you are the one that can take control of that.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just so important for people to hear that.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I've enjoyed so much having you.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: All the information about Fryn, contacting her, her startup investments, and as well as her books are below for you to check out.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Lee, thanks so much for having me.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability, and taking a leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold inside.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey.