Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Tristan und Isolde with Costume Designer, Clint Ramos - The Costume House with Spencer Williams

Transcript

Tristan und Isolde with Costume Designer, Clint Ramos - The Costume House with Spencer Williams · The Art of Costume Podcast

• 0:13
  To the Costume House with Spencer Williams, a podcast
• 0:16
  dedicated to the art and storytelling of costume design
• 0:19
  in film and television. I am your host, Spencer
• 0:23
  Williams, and for today's episode, we're stepping onto one
• 0:26
  of the most legendary stages in the world, the Metropolitan
• 0:29
  Opera, for production that represents the mountaintop of
• 0:33
  operatic storytelling. We're talking about Tristan,
• 0:36
  Unisilda. I am so excited to be joined by
• 0:38
  the incredibly talented costume designer Clint Ramos, whose work
• 0:42
  on this production is nothing short of breathtaking.
• 0:45
  For many artists, Tristan Uni Zelda is a dream, a towering
• 0:49
  emotional and deeply visual work, and to bring it to life on
• 0:52
  a Met stage is an experience like no other.
• 0:55
  In our conversation, we explore how Clint uses color to a shape
• 0:59
  the emotional worlds of our title characters, from Tristan's
• 1:02
  deep connection to the sea to his Zelda striking presence and
• 1:06
  lush, evocative greens. We talk about texture and scale,
• 1:10
  and how even through the Mets HD Live series, the costumes feel
• 1:14
  reachedly dimensional, interacting beautifully with the
• 1:17
  movement of the set and precision of the lighting.
• 1:20
  We also dive into Clint's unique perspective as both a costume
• 1:24
  and set designer has influenced his approach to this production,
• 1:28
  and how that interdisciplinary lens shapes the world of Tristan
• 1:31
  Uni Zelda. And of course, we get into some
• 1:34
  unforgettable visual moments. The commanding presence of King
• 1:37
  Mark to bounce between opulence and modernity, and a powerful,
• 1:41
  intentional use of white throughout the opera, creating
• 1:44
  contrast, ritual, and emotional clarity against an already
• 1:48
  stunning visual landscape. This is a conversation about
• 1:51
  scale, texture, and the emotional language of costume at
• 1:55
  its highest level. So without further ado, let's
• 1:58
  step inside the costume house. I am so happy to be here today
• 2:12
  with the incredibly talented someone whom I've been wanting
• 2:15
  to talk to you for so long, costume designer Clint Ramos.
• 2:18
  Clint, thank you so much for being here.
• 2:20
  Hi, Spencer. I'm so excited to talk to you.
• 2:24
  The opera Tristan Uni Solda is such incredible production.
• 2:29
  And I mean, when I was asked to talk to you about this, I
• 2:32
  almost, almost was a little. I mean, I was nervous.
• 2:34
  I was like, this is like the mountaintop of productions.
• 2:36
  I mean, I don't even feel qualified to be talking to you
• 2:39
  about this. But, I mean, I can let this pass
• 2:42
  by. I mean, the costumes are
• 2:45
  incredible. So I'm excited to get into this.
• 2:47
  Yeah. Yeah, well, thank you for having
• 2:49
  me. Of course.
• 2:50
  Well, let's do this. So Wagner's Tristan Unizolda is
• 2:54
  such a celebrate opera. It is like the mountain top for
• 2:57
  so many performers and creatives.
• 2:59
  And to be a part of this production at the historic
• 3:03
  Metropolitan Opera of all places is an opportunity like no other.
• 3:07
  So first, I mean, can we just talk about what this experience
• 3:10
  has been like for you? I know this is your second time
• 3:12
  working at the Met. What has this been like for you?
• 3:15
  I mean, it's amazing, you know, to be working at the biggest
• 3:18
  Opera House really in the world, you know?
• 3:20
  But it's also like, you know, it's kind of like a yeah, it's
• 3:27
  like the mountaintop, you know, I the first time I did, this is
• 3:31
  my first time doing costumes at the Met.
• 3:33
  The first time I engaged with the Met was I was doing, I was
• 3:38
  designing scenery. So, you know, it was a little
• 3:45
  not easier. Costumes is always hard.
• 3:47
  OK, I'm just gonna lay it out there.
• 3:49
  Costumes is always hard. So yeah, I know it's been, it's
• 3:54
  been amazing. Yeah, it's been an amazing
• 3:56
  experience. Plus also the shop at the at the
• 3:59
  Met is just they're just unbelievable.
• 4:01
  You know, like they, they're basically at the top of, of, of
• 4:04
  their game and, and they're in the business of fulfilling
• 4:10
  designs and making your dreams come true.
• 4:12
  So right it was. Yeah, it was a joy.
• 4:15
  Well, it was incredible. So let's talk about our title
• 4:18
  characters. I was instantly struck by your
• 4:20
  use of color just from the very beginning, helping tell the
• 4:24
  stories of both Tristan and he's old.
• 4:27
  Let's start with Tristan, who at the beginning of this story is
• 4:30
  leaving the ship that carries is old on at sea.
• 4:32
  And with that, I feel like Tristan was very tied to the sea
• 4:36
  throughout the story with your uses of Blues, maybe some light
• 4:39
  purples. Yeah, very much yeah.
• 4:43
  I feel like that was very intentional with your use of
• 4:45
  color. Yeah.
• 4:47
  I think stepping back a little bit, you know, I think part of
• 4:51
  what we this particular productions concept was that the
• 4:55
  idea of this duality or this couple really stems from a
• 5:00
  contemporary framework. You know, so we do start them at
• 5:03
  the table wearing contemporary clothes, but the production
• 5:07
  employs like multiple kind of, I wouldn't say tricks, but
• 5:11
  devices, you know, where there are double S of the characters.
• 5:16
  So we can kind of radiate this idea that what's happening at
• 5:22
  the table is actually, you know, a container for the myth for
• 5:28
  this big fable that happens, you know, wherein we explore the the
• 5:33
  sort of the Celtic myth, right? And sometimes we have triples,
• 5:39
  you know, so you're seeing multiple results at the same
• 5:41
  time or you're seeing multiple Tristans at the same time.
• 5:45
  So it was important to me that we needed to sort of really trap
• 5:49
  these characters by color, right?
• 5:51
  And then so with Tristan, blue was immediate for me because he
• 5:56
  is sort of the invader from the sea, right?
• 5:58
  Although, you know, it is Isolde is also referred to as a sea
• 6:02
  maiden. I really thought it was more
• 6:05
  kind of about how she was grounded in the land, you know,
• 6:10
  and and Tristan was this force coming from the sea, you know,
• 6:14
  and and sort of exhibits this kind of violence that comes from
• 6:21
  a really angry ocean, you know. And so that's how, you know, the
• 6:25
  blue kind of started. And as with both characters as
• 6:29
  they, one can look at this opera as really a process of both
• 6:35
  falling in love and of dying, right?
• 6:37
  They both die these really protracted deaths.
• 6:42
  And so in many ways, that was a big inspiration for how I also
• 6:47
  deployed how we use those two colors for those two characters.
• 6:52
  You know, they slowly started to desaturate as we got to the end.
• 6:56
  And like you said, on the other hand, Ezolda is in very
• 6:59
  beautiful greens, quite the opposite of her seafaring love
• 7:02
  affair, very much grounded in the earth.
• 7:04
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, she's also like this
• 7:06
  kind of, she's a little witchy. Is that OK to say?
• 7:10
  No, that's this is very correct. You know what I mean?
• 7:13
  Like she, she creates these potions, you know, she's like,
• 7:16
  you know, so there's like there's something really
• 7:19
  grounded with like, I almost like looked at her as like, like
• 7:24
  she deals with herbs and like plant life, you know?
• 7:28
  So there was, there's really something kind of rooted in, I
• 7:34
  don't know, in, in, in the green in the forest, you know,
• 7:37
  particularly a Celtic forest for me, you know what I mean?
• 7:40
  Yeah, for her. I see what you mean.
• 7:42
  OK, so the next question has two parts to it so I want to break
• 7:44
  it down first. I love your use of texture
• 7:47
  because I got to watch this on the big screen through the Mets
• 7:50
  HD Live series. So with that, I got to see the
• 7:53
  costumes very 3 dimensionally because I was saying up close in
• 7:57
  my recliner seat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:59
  And I got to see all the detail and I was.
• 8:01
  Very. Oh my God.
• 8:02
  Very fascinated by the overall scale of this production as
• 8:05
  well. Yeah, with all the moving sets
• 8:07
  and the lighting. So, yeah.
• 8:09
  And like you mentioned as well at the beginning, you made your
• 8:12
  Metropolitan Opera debut in 2023 as a set designer for X, The
• 8:15
  Life and Times of Malcolm X My questions to you, you know, how
• 8:18
  did texture play such a role in this opera?
• 8:21
  And how has your existence as a set designer before influence
• 8:25
  your process when it came to approaching the costumes for
• 8:28
  Trusted? And his soldier, I love these
• 8:31
  questions. Well, number one, I think at the
• 8:35
  set designer, I always think about like, what is the what is
• 8:39
  the sort of like backdrop really that these costumes are going to
• 8:42
  exist in, right. And so that's number one.
• 8:47
  And how can we both punctuate what the set designer is doing
• 8:50
  and what I'm doing, you know, for an overall effect?
• 8:52
  It's, it's never about like, oh, this is the costume moment or
• 8:56
  this is a set moment. It's really about like, oh, no,
• 8:59
  this is an opera moment. You know, every moment is an
• 9:03
  opera moment. It's, it's to both amplify the
• 9:09
  music, but also like really tell a story.
• 9:14
  The textures really came from, as you said, you know, I think
• 9:20
  nowadays when I was coming up and where I was going to school,
• 9:24
  everybody talked about operas, the scale, and it's far away.
• 9:28
  So you have to really make these choices like big.
• 9:32
  The trims are big, the graphics are big and all that.
• 9:34
  So you can see it from far away. But with the advent of HD, you
• 9:40
  kind of have to do both. You know, you kind of have to do
• 9:43
  like this, like big scale, but also when you really get into
• 9:47
  like the nitty gritty, you'll see the details of how many
• 9:50
  like, you know, jewels. That you put, yeah.
• 9:53
  I mean, cuz they get in there, you know, and then my big
• 9:56
  anxiety is always about the, the, the wig lace.
• 10:00
  But like any costume designers anxiety.
• 10:04
  But like, for me, the textures played a big part of it because
• 10:08
  it also allowed me to kind of really think about the bigger
• 10:13
  themes of what I was trying to do.
• 10:16
  Right. So when we think about is older
• 10:18
  and when we think about Tristan and the, the court that Tristan
• 10:22
  is bringing, I mean, is old is basically a captive right to
• 10:26
  write this court. I kind of wanted that court to
• 10:29
  be unlike the organic kind of life that is old that is coming
• 10:35
  from. So I wanted that all to be in
• 10:37
  metals and in leather, sort of like almost like this kind of
• 10:42
  like celebrated warrior class, right, but but elevated, right
• 10:46
  and is old. I kind of really wanted to use a
• 10:48
  lot of like organic shapes, you know, but still really grounded
• 10:53
  in like natural fibers, you know, but also natural elements
• 11:00
  like metal. Like, you know, she's wearing a
• 11:02
  lot of like gold because she is indeed a Princess, you know, but
• 11:05
  also a lot of like these jewels, like these like precious and
• 11:09
  semi precious stones. That's, that's sort of like
• 11:12
  really sprinkled on her as if it's no big deal, right?
• 11:16
  Like this is like, I'd imagine this culture that Isolde is
• 11:20
  coming from to be like, oh, right, Like these are the found
• 11:23
  gems and metals in in that land and this is what they're
• 11:27
  wearing, right? And then for the rest of the
• 11:30
  kind of like the bigger idea I worked with this idea of like
• 11:35
  pleats, you know, a lot of pleating, a lot of like weaving
• 11:39
  of leather. You know, the pleating really
• 11:41
  comes from this idea that number one, you know, as as they get
• 11:46
  more and more in love, you know, the idea of mortality and
• 11:52
  immortality and this idea of like, oh, how we need to really
• 11:55
  leave our bodies and ourselves, like the, you know, the self
• 12:00
  that we're so attached to is unfolding, right?
• 12:03
  And so this idea of unfolding and folding was really kind of
• 12:06
  like it, it, it, it, it, it was, it was very evident to me,
• 12:12
  right, that we needed to kind of like deploy some sort of like
• 12:15
  fabrication technique that kind of mirror that visually.
• 12:18
  And the weaving really is about kind of like this, like how do
• 12:22
  we merge these two spirits, these two, you know, these two
• 12:26
  souls, right? And then how do we UN unweave
• 12:29
  them right as they let go of, as they as they slowly die.
• 12:33
  And so that's kind of really the the idea behind the texture,
• 12:37
  right? And, and also really wanting for
• 12:41
  me, most of the opera happens in these tunnels and they're in
• 12:47
  these tunnels and these tunnels like like any other tunnel has
• 12:51
  like a ceiling above, you know, because it's and, and the
• 12:57
  lights, you know, have a heart. You can't really do like above
• 13:00
  the above the head lighting, right?
• 13:02
  Everything has to come from the front or from the sides, if you
• 13:06
  can access the side in this tunnel.
• 13:08
  So to me, a lot of reflective materials needed to be deployed
• 13:12
  in the opera, you know, because as is beautiful set was also
• 13:17
  very matte. It was like a matte Gray, which
• 13:20
  was necessary for a lot of the video content that we had too.
• 13:24
  Right. And so that's kind of like where
• 13:26
  all of these like ideas, like it was a confluence of ideas that
• 13:30
  that made me feel like, all right, like I'm just going to
• 13:32
  put as much like metallic and as much leather and as much like
• 13:37
  fabric, you know, fabric manipulation that I could.
• 13:40
  That makes made sense. Yeah.
• 13:42
  So with that, I mean, how much collaboration then do you have
• 13:45
  with other departments? I imagine this must have been a
• 13:48
  very large conversation with everyone else working on this
• 13:52
  opera. Yeah, no, it, I mean, we started
• 13:55
  working on this maybe two years ago, you know, Yuval, the
• 13:58
  director, Yuval Sharon, unbelievable opera director had
• 14:02
  like started like 5 years before the opera, you know, like really
• 14:06
  with this like idea of, of what he was trying to do.
• 14:09
  But when I joined the team, all of these were just ideas, right?
• 14:14
  And we, I remember that day we met like maybe two years ago in
• 14:18
  London and nobody had an A, you know, nobody had a solid idea
• 14:21
  about what the design would look like, right?
• 14:25
  And these conversations really are like, oh, So what is the
• 14:28
  opera about, right? And that's how we kind of came
• 14:31
  up with this, like, isn't like what's happening to them
• 14:33
  happening to every couple on earth?
• 14:36
  And what if, right, like, because there's this idea of
• 14:39
  the, of the, of the hourglass, right?
• 14:42
  And, and you've all had talked about this fascination about
• 14:45
  like how space, right? Like what is happening, you
• 14:51
  know, if you keep on zooming out and zooming out and zooming out
• 14:54
  and zooming out, the thing that we feel so intense about and
• 14:58
  feels like the largest thing that could possibly happen to a
• 15:01
  human being, like falling in love, right?
• 15:03
  Or death or all of that kind of stuff.
• 15:05
  But if you keep on zooming out, you know, in space, right, that
• 15:09
  is like a little Fleck of sand when you really consider it,
• 15:13
  right? And so that and also this idea
• 15:17
  of time and how compressed time is, right?
• 15:19
  That was the initial idea. Like, OK, what if this whole
• 15:23
  opera existed in a second? That conversation, that space
• 15:29
  between a couple when they're at a table, right?
• 15:32
  Either for breakfast or dinner. You know what I mean?
• 15:34
  That like really that, that kind of, you know, that those
• 15:38
  silences or whatever it is, what if it is held in that and that's
• 15:42
  how it radiated, right? So a lot of like the initial
• 15:46
  conversations were about feelings about our own
• 15:50
  relationships with our partners. And then over the months we
• 15:56
  start, it starts to give form and shape.
• 15:59
  And, and I know a lot of people talk about collaboration and
• 16:05
  sometimes like I've worked on projects where there really
• 16:08
  isn't, you know, we're kind of like existing in our own lanes,
• 16:13
  you know, And that's fine too. I love those projects because
• 16:16
  you know what I mean? But this was like, no, let's get
• 16:21
  into each other's lane kind of moment.
• 16:23
  And it was really satisfying. You know, a lot of the video
• 16:26
  content like Ruth Hoppin are amazing video designer and Jason
• 16:30
  Thompson Rick, they shot a lot of the fact that the textures
• 16:33
  that you talk about to create textures, you know, on that you
• 16:39
  see on screen. You know, one thing that we
• 16:42
  didn't talk about, though, was and, and we were just like, holy
• 16:46
  cow, like we've been in each other's minds so much that when
• 16:50
  Tristan appears in the third act in that, you know, kind of like
• 16:55
  painted robe, that it literally was like a manifestation of what
• 17:00
  they were projecting, which was this like sea calming itself
• 17:03
  down, you know? Yeah.
• 17:05
  Another character I do want to talk about, though, was I was
• 17:07
  instantly taken by King Mark. I mean, yeah, well, we were
• 17:11
  breaking hearts in the first two acts.
• 17:13
  I was half expecting to see this dopey king walk in, but instead
• 17:17
  we had this very opulent, well dressed, well mannered, put
• 17:20
  together, stately man, obviously incredible performance and his
• 17:24
  costume was astounding. I mean, you were just very taken
• 17:28
  with him and it blended well of this world.
• 17:31
  Yeah, it felt very contemporary tell.
• 17:33
  Me about. What inspired his costume?
• 17:36
  Yeah, King Mark, when you when you do this opera, you usually
• 17:40
  see the chorus, right? And that chorus is basically his
• 17:43
  Kingdom, right? That when at the arrival of like
• 17:46
  as old and Tristan, we chose to put the chorus and they're
• 17:53
  usually male. It's a male chorus, right?
• 17:55
  Like she's arriving into this like testosterone filled land.
• 18:00
  We chose to put them behind the scrim, right, like as shadows.
• 18:04
  So for me, like a lot of like what King Mark was was like he
• 18:07
  become he had become kind of like this repository of all
• 18:11
  those textures that I was talking about, the leather, the
• 18:13
  gold and everything, right. But I also was really interested
• 18:16
  in like, OK, Speedo, you know, the the bass baritone who plays
• 18:24
  him is like 6364. I was like, oh, that's a lot of
• 18:29
  surface area that we can actually like have fun with,
• 18:32
  right? And so for me, it was really
• 18:34
  about that, like, how can we make him both Byzantine, right?
• 18:37
  And also like reflect like modern couture finishings, you
• 18:43
  know, from like the stuff that John Galiano does, but also like
• 18:49
  the stuff like this, you know, amazing Dutch designer Fong Lang
• 18:54
  does, you know, which is like these appliques of metallic
• 18:58
  threads and fabric mixed with like leather and everything.
• 19:02
  And so that's kind of like he's like a basically in gold and
• 19:08
  leather and he's like the apotheosis of those two
• 19:11
  elements. You know, he is kind of like the
• 19:13
  element itself, right? You know, he wears this crazy
• 19:16
  crown and you know, it's like, it's like it's this crown of
• 19:19
  thorns kind of, you know what I mean?
• 19:21
  But like, it's, it's also it, it evokes this kind of idea of the
• 19:26
  power, right? And the magnitude of what this
• 19:32
  power can do, which is basically like, you know, capture a
• 19:38
  Princess and take her for his bride, you know, But he's mostly
• 19:44
  in goals and bronzes and Browns. And then he experiences this
• 19:47
  sort of spiritual kind of change to in the end.
• 19:51
  And we sort of desaturate him like we do with Tristan and his
• 19:54
  older. And Speaking of the
• 19:55
  desaturation, throughout moments in the opera, specifically
• 19:58
  toward the end, there's this absence of color, the specific
• 20:03
  use of white, especially as he's old, as lost toward the end.
• 20:07
  Through ritual and especially this incredible horn player.
• 20:11
  By the way, I really love his costume, which I can't get
• 20:15
  enough of. So talk to me behind the
• 20:17
  symbolism behind the desaturation we get to see in
• 20:21
  the final act. Yeah, in the final act, you
• 20:24
  really are exposed to the the biggest tunnel, right?
• 20:28
  And and we always looked at that tunnel as the portal to death,
• 20:31
  right? But instead of like being kind
• 20:33
  of like, you know, the Grim Reaper or something really dark,
• 20:38
  you know, we see death through is old as eyes.
• 20:41
  There's two versions of death here, right?
• 20:43
  You can die like Tristan saying, why the F did this happen to me?
• 20:49
  And why is this happening to us, right?
• 20:51
  And all that kind of stuff. And you sing a 45 minute song as
• 20:55
  you're dying, right? Or you could choose to die like
• 20:59
  is older and basically say, listen, we got to let go.
• 21:03
  We have to go. We remember we talked about love
• 21:06
  that goes beyond us and our bodies, right?
• 21:11
  We have, we just need to let it go, right?
• 21:14
  And so it's a manifestation of that, right?
• 21:16
  Like that the, the, the, the death portal is quite, it is
• 21:20
  sort of calming, right? That, that, that death is just
• 21:24
  the beginning of a higher plane, right?
• 21:27
  And we looked at the the horn player really, you know, he's
• 21:31
  like, you know, in in many sort of iterations of Tristan, he has
• 21:37
  a particular like profession. He's either like a court member
• 21:42
  or a shepherd or some, you know what I mean?
• 21:44
  Something like something like that.
• 21:45
  But in ours, we really looked at him as the sort of the
• 21:50
  gatekeeper to this kind of spiritual world, right?
• 21:55
  He is also where I deployed a lot of the pleading techniques.
• 21:58
  You know, it evokes a lot of those Japanese designers.
• 22:02
  And I just really wanted him to be kind of grand in a very quiet
• 22:07
  way, you know? So I experimented a lot with the
• 22:10
  shapes, you know, on him and behind him are like these 20
• 22:16
  dancers were, you know, dressed almost the same.
• 22:20
  But, you know, like really simpler to just kind of like
• 22:23
  radiate this idea that, you know, there are these almost
• 22:27
  like these molecular souls bouncing off of the, you know,
• 22:31
  tunnel, you know what I mean? That's kind of like the the idea
• 22:35
  behind that this is the white and the and the and the death
• 22:41
  tunnel, you know? Yeah.
• 22:43
  I love talking to you about this production.
• 22:46
  It was just so beautiful, so incredible to see.
• 22:49
  My first, I guess, watching opera on screen before I let you
• 22:54
  go. What did this experience mean to
• 22:56
  you, Clint? Oh, it was really to me, it's I
• 23:03
  enjoy these thought exercises. I'm more of like more than, you
• 23:09
  know, more than any other process.
• 23:12
  I think in the design, you know, kind of journey that that we all
• 23:17
  take as a designer, the idea of ideas is what I'm kind of
• 23:22
  addicted to, right? And it's almost like, well, then
• 23:25
  how do you make that happen? Like how do you convey that
• 23:29
  idea? Because most of them are
• 23:30
  philosophical. Most of them are like, you know,
• 23:33
  very heady, right? And then, and then you're just
• 23:36
  trusting the audience to to kind of like get what you're trying
• 23:41
  to do, right. And so, so to me, it really
• 23:44
  meant that that that design is such a tool for thinking, you
• 23:53
  know, particularly costume design, right?
• 23:55
  Like, you know, when we think about costumes, we immediately
• 24:00
  think about like, oh, they're clothes.
• 24:02
  And and hence they're, you know, they're highly attached to
• 24:05
  fashion. That's true too, right?
• 24:09
  But like, I think more than anything, when you design for
• 24:11
  the performing arts, you know, either it's be a Broadway show
• 24:15
  or an opera or a movie or anything like that.
• 24:17
  It really is about #1 story. But it's, but you get such an
• 24:22
  opportunity to imagine how to convey ideas.
• 24:25
  And that's, you know, working on this opera and at the mat like
• 24:30
  really meant that I could do that in it's sort of like most
• 24:37
  kind of like maximal and magnificent form.
• 24:39
  Do you know what I mean? Like until it it was highly
• 24:42
  satisfying, was a lot of work, but but it was incredibly
• 24:47
  satisfying when audiences are like, all right, I'm getting
• 24:50
  this, you know, I am getting this thing.
• 24:52
  I'm getting why they did it this way, you know?
• 24:55
  Yeah, Tristan Unisol, the costumes are Clint Ramos.
• 24:58
  Thank you so much for joining me.
• 25:00
  This has been such a pleasure. I'm so glad I could give you
• 25:02
  your flowers. Oh my God, thank you Spencer for
• 25:05
  the opportunity. It's an honor.
• 25:07
  Thank you so much. The Costume House with Spencer
• 25:10
  Williams is a production of The Art of Costume.
• 25:13
  This episode was hosted, produced and edited by Spencer
• 25:16
  Williams. To discover more conversations
• 25:18
  with the designer shaping film, television and theater, visit
• 25:22
  theartofcostume.com or follow us on social media at The Art of
• 25:26
  Costume. And don't forget to connect with
• 25:27
  me on Instagram at Host Spencer. If you enjoyed this
• 25:30
  conversation, be sure to follow and subscribe wherever you
• 25:33
  listen to podcasts or watch on YouTube and stay tuned for more
• 25:36
  episodes celebrating the designers shaping today's most
• 25:39
  captivating films, television series, and stage plays.