Latest / Clyde Confidential / How Yale Breslin Turned Grunt Work Into Industry Access

Transcript

How Yale Breslin Turned Grunt Work Into Industry Access · Clyde Confidential

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I think there's been times in my life. Listen, I
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: do a good job, but there's been times in my
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: life where I question. I'm like, was I a personality hire?
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: How about a hybrid? How about a hybrid?
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Hi, everyone.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Clyde Confidential. It's my
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: pleasure to introduce you to my guest today. I have
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: fellow podcaster and host. Very eligible bachelor in New York City,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Yale Breslin, joining me today in the studio. Hi, Yale. Hi.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: How are you?
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: I feel nervous. Why? Because I'm usually where you are.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you've done this a hundred times.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: I know, but I don't really have control.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I feel like now you're able to ask me all
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the questions and I have to answer them versus.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Being over there and controlling the whole narrative.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: You can also ask me questions. We can also collab
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: on this.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's go.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we can cut down whatever, so don't be nervous.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, good.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: It's so funny because I feel like the people who
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: come on who have no reason to be nervous, like
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: one of my best friends came on the podcast and
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: he was like, shaking in his boots before he sat
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: down on my couch. And I'm like, I've talked to
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: you thousands of times. Why are you nervous? But there's
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: something about the lights and the chairs. I don't know.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: People really, because I do this too, people really tense up.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: And it's a totally different thing having a conversation on
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the street or at a cafe. It's a completely different
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: thing once There are cameras and lights and a location
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and time.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: It feels very different. So let's see how I do.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: This will be very chill.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Okay, good.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: How is your summer?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: My summer is great. My summer is over. And I'm
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: actually quite happy about it.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: I'm... I'm ready to get back to work.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: And focus on things that I have had on my mind,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: especially with the Office of podcast and the new iterations
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: of what I want that to be. I sort of
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: took the summer truly to recalibrate and think about because
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I put out a season, right? I did one season.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I put out almost 40 episodes. A lot of work. Dude.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: 40 episodes is crazy. I don't even think I have
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: 40 episodes out.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: One a week. One a week. One every single week.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: I didn't miss a week since I launched in October.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: When did you officially launch?
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: Last October.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, wow.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I am really proud of what I've done.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: And I'll talk about the concept and everything in a second. But,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: you know, I put out 40 episodes. I didn't really
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: have time to sort of sit and think and breathe
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: about what was working, what's not working, how I can
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: do better, where I want to allocate resources. dollars? Where
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I want to save money? What do I want to
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: invest in? And I took the summer. I went on hiatus.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Season one wrapped. I was super stoked about it. Season
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: one was over.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: And I took the summer to sort of reframe and
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: rethink and think about what I want to do going
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: into season two.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: Did I do a good job about rethinking it all summer?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: No.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: I feel like the summer's over and I'm still a
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: little like... You're on vacation. Yeah. Still like, huh, I
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: didn't really figure that out. But you know what? I
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: think it's really.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: interesting to evolve and figure things out in real time
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: and iterate and iterate and iterate. And it's not that serious,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's, it's not that serious. We host
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: amongst other things, conversations with people. It's the format in
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: which it goes out and that is the medium, but
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: you can change, you could change it up all the
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: time and it's a okay.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be perfect.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, what we're doing today, is hard and
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: we are in the most oversaturated market of podcasting. And
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I think it takes a minute to take off obviously.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm someone who is used to getting results in
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: real time and I'm very action oriented. So if I
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: want something to happen, I just go out and do
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: it or pick up the phone and call someone. That's
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: just the assistant in me. Uh, so I launched my
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: show in March and we're, you know, we're still climbing,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: but I'm, I'm patient and I believe in it. And
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Your concept is amazing too. And you just got to
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: keep going. And eventually it'll, you know, we're both going
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: to be fine.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: We're going to be fine. We're going to be fine.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Do you find this fulfilling?
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: I love it. I do too.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: When you DM me, I was so excited. I was like,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: hell yeah, let's go.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Let's go. Yeah.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: But I'm also sort of in this mindset of, I
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: want so many people have supported me and I want
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: to support as many people as I can as well.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: And I always say this, like, getting something off the
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: ground is not easy.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: No one needs this. No one needs my podcast.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: You guys didn't ask for this.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: No one asked for it. It doesn't matter.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Like, but the fact that we believe in it and
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: we continuously put the work in to make it into something.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: It's tough. It's, it's tough. So I applaud anybody who
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: I applaud yourself.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I applaud you.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I applaud me. Like anybody.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited to learn about you and what you're building. Cool.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Well, Anything you want to know, I'm an open book.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I have a lot of questions. Okay.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: For all the listeners who don't know what Office of is,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: can you tell us about the concept and what you're
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: working on and what you're building?
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Totally.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: So my experience or my point of view is that
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: in the podcast space, there isn't this area for men
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: to sort of be a little bit more vulnerable and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: talk quite freely about shed the layers of toxic masculinity,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: and just get to know these people on a deeper level.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: Fundamentally, that's all I wanted to do. I'm a guy.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: I'm curious about men. I'm curious about.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: How they think, how they operate, how they navigate themselves
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: throughout the world, what scares them, what excites them, what
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: turns them on, what turns them off. Holistically, it's just
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: about getting to know who these public figures are on
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: a deeper, more human level. And I'm a former magazine guy.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I was a magazine editor for many years and I
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: like to talk to people. And I think something that
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I'm good at is I can make people feel comfortable.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: And when you make people feel comfortable, the layers are
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: shed and people are easier to sort of.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Open up a little bit.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: And when I turned 40 and I had been working
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: for so many people, I kind of wanted to take
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: the time to invest in myself and and launch something
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: that I created. I've had so many ideas over the years.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: This is sort of the first one that I've actually said, okay,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I believe in this, let's go. And Office Of was
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: this concept that I wanted to create this modern clubhouse
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: of guys to come in, shoot the shit, talk, be vulnerable,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: learn about who they are, they can learn about who
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I am, and hopefully shed a light on what it
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: looks like to be a guy today.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: So it really is just....
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Interesting conversations with men from all walks of life that
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I think are doing unique things and have something to say.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: It's getting to know the people behind the movie, getting
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: to know the person behind the album, getting to know
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: the person behind the hotel and their inner monologue and
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: their thought process.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: And I love to know, you know, what, what scares.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: People and how they fight through challenges and how they
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: navigate being a father and a son and a, boyfriend
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: and going on date, like all of it. So it's
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: just this curiosity that I have that I'm sort of
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: trying to bring into the real world.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Am I the first female, technically?
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: I'm so honored. Yes, you absolutely are. And I am
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: on your podcast. Yes.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Well, cool.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is going to do something for me.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: People do ask me if I'm going to start inviting
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: women onto it.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: And I.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Will eventually, but I think this is my hook for now.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: It's your focus, yeah. It's my focus.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: It's my point of view. It's something that I'm interested in.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: People might think it's whack. People might think that I'm
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: missing out on a lot of people, which I am,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: but I have a hook that I want to sort
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: of focus on and harness and see where it goes.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: There are a few women who I would make the
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: exception for.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's really cool that you're sticking
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: to that, and there are so many podcasts out there about...
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: dating that are led by females and really not enough
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: led by males. I feel like Jared Freed is probably
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: the only male that I've heard talk about.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, he was on dating. Wow.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I would love to have him on.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: He's a great, he was, he's funny.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: He's funny and he's real and he's interesting and he
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: has a good converse.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: He's a good conversationalist. Yeah. He was awesome. I loved
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: having him on.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: He, I, two of my friends, who don't know each
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: other have separately gone out with him in our twenties
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: in New York. So I've heard his name for years
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: and that guy is funny as hell, but he gives
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: really good advice. He was actually on the foster twins
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: podcast and I listened to him give some dating advice
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: and I found it really, I don't know. It really resonated.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: It hit.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: He's a good dude. I was very grateful that he
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: came on. Um, and he had a lot to say.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. How do you, how do you go about getting
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: a Jared Freed on your podcast or any of your guests?
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: However, like a DM, an email, a text, a phone call,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: knock on their door, show up, ask them at dinner.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I am calling in a lot of favors. I am
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: asking people to connect me. I am pitching myself like crazy.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: There is no rhyme or reason how I.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Go about it.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: I just will not stop until I get an answer.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: And if the answer is no, because I get a
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: lot of them, a lot of them, that's okay. I'll
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: try and pivot. I'll ask for a later date. At
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: least keep me in mind in the future. And then
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a relationship is formed. Totally.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: And circle back.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: We'll circle back.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: We'll circle back.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: If you're not ready now, we'll circle back in the spring.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Give me a chance to blow up a little bit more.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: We'll circle back.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: Exactly. And I think it was.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: So many years sort of working in media, I launched,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I recorded basically 30 episodes before I even launched.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I did the same thing. Thank God, to be honest,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: because I'm sure it saved both of our asses.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: For sure. For sure.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people were like, okay, we'll
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: throw Yale a bone here. We don't really know what
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: it is, but it seems kind of cool. People took
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: a chance on me. And then I slowly started to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: get some more influential names and chatter.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: And it's a new media outlet.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: And I think PR firms and agents are always sort
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: of looking for a new format.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: And I'm hustling, baby.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I am just like pounding the pavement and trying as
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: hard as I can. Because if you're not going to
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: work as hard for yourself and for something that you're launching,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: no one's going to do it for you.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Nobody.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: You could literally walk away from this right now and
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: it'll be over. So I feel the exact same way.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: If I'm not going to put in the effort, if
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to try my hardest, no one else
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: is going to do it for me.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: There's not a team. Office of is me.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Well said. I mean, that was the next thing I
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: was going to ask you. I know we touched on
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: this briefly before starting a podcast for people who don't
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: know how to start a podcast is so hard and
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: you don't really know what you're doing. And there's so
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: many moving parts. So how did you, how are you
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: doing this by yourself and how did you get started?
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Well, season one, um, I, I basically Googled like how
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: to start. I didn't know how to do it, how
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: to start a podcast.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Where, how do you do it? What do you need?
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Where are podcast studios in New York city?
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: And I found these wonderful people at newsstand studios at
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Rockefeller center who have a podcast there.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: Um, it's this tiny, it's tiny, it's tiny.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: It used to be a newsstand, like one of those
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: newsstands on the streets where you buy magazines and gum
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: and cigarettes. And it's, They have a podcast studio there
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: and I got in touch with them and I said,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: this is my idea. Can we work together? Lots of
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: conversations back and forth for a while. And finally they said, yeah,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: let's take it. Let's, let's grow this together. So I
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: guess the learning lesson is I leaned into people who
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: knew how to do something that I didn't know how
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: to do. I can get the guests. I can have
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the conversation. I can market it. I can make merch.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I can get the word out there as much as
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I can. I don't have a camera. I, I don't
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: know how to edit. I don't know how to, you know,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Frankenstein the conversation to make it better. And so I
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: leaned into the people who sort of knew how to
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: do that while I focused on getting the guests and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: continuously like watering this plant and putting the podcast out
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: every single week.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: So I there's no rhyme or reason.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I just focused on what I know how to do
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: and worked with other people who are experts in their
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: field to figure out the other stuff. with me sort
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: of overseeing it and working alongside them, but really putting
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: my trust in people who are experts in their skillset.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: And they must have also obviously trusted you to, no
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: one's just going to take a chance on a random
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: guy that's like, Hey, can I use your studio? They
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: obviously believed in you and your concept.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: I had to do a test.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: No way. What kind of test?
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: I had to do a test.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I had to get a friend, my very good friend, Elliot, who, um,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: is hilarious and talkative and smart and witty and funny.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: He's a, he's a great friend of mine and we
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: have really wonderful banter. The podcast studio said, we need
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: you to, you need to bring a friend in here.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: We need to record a conversation to see how you do.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: It's like, they're basically like, it's one thing that you
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: think you can have a podcast and you think you
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: can have a conversation with somebody. It's another thing. Once
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: the cameras are rolling, it's another thing. Once the lighting
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: is up and there's a little bit more pressure and
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: a So that was my test. I never aired the conversation.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: He's constantly mad at me for never airing it.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you air it?
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: He was amazing.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: You're like, I look back.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: No, I look back on it like a little bit.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: I didn't know what I was doing.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like a little embarrassed of where I was then.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I feel when I look back on that conversation, I
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: didn't have it even remotely figured out.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: And it gives me a little bit of... the ick
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: a little bit.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: My first podcast episode, I was like holding the mic.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't even know what to do
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: with my hands. I was so nervous too. You could
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: redo it.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I could redo it one day. He's, he's wickedly successful
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: and amazingly talented. And he always brings it up. He's like,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: you never aired that episode. And you said you were
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: like season two, season two, season three.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Season four. You'll, you'll come, you'll come back one of
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: these days.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Once I've sort of honed my skill and my voice
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: a little bit more hysterical.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Do they make everyone who uses our studio do a
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: test episode?
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: They have some pretty big people. I imagine no. I
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: think they were kind of like, who is this kid?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: He's coming in with this pitch. Let's make him do
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: a test. They believed in what I was offering, but
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: let's actually see if he can live up to what
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: he says he's going to do.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: And I passed. You did. And I did it.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Now you're here.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: And now I'm here.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Are you still using them?
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: No.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Okay. So what are you doing now?
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: So what I'm doing now moving forward is the whole
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: concept is called Office Of. And I think it's really
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: interesting to actually go into people's offices, whether that's a
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: chef in their kitchen, a painter in his studio, an
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: actor in the makeup chair, a musician in a car
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: going to their venue, whatever it may be, wherever their
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: office is, because not everybody sits behind a desk. I
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: will go to you and we'll all have a conversation there.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: It's going to be shorter form content, more social forward.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: And yeah, You know, getting guests isn't easy. It's very hard.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: It's very hard.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And getting somebody to come to the studio for an hour,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: it's not the easiest thing to schedule. So I will
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: now come to you. I don't need an hour. I'll
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: make it work with whatever time you can give me.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: I'll cut it up and I'll move on. The talent
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: or the subject doesn't have to leave.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: They stay put. I come to you.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: And I think people are nosy and curious and like
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: to see what people's spaces look like and... You get
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: a sense of their environment.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, I do. I want to see what all
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: that stuff looks like. 100%, yeah. I want to see
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: all of it.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: So instead of being in a studio, which I'm so
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: grateful for, for season one happening in a studio, moving forward,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: it's going to be in their spaces. Very cool.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: In their offices, whatever that may be. Very cool.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: When I started doing my podcast, I did it in
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: my living room in my old New York apartment. And
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: then I moved out of that apartment. And now I'm
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: here at the Brownstone Social. And it's really nice because
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I just book on their website and they're super flexible.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: And if it's two people, if it's three people, they
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: move around the furniture. But I did my apartment because
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: with all of my high profile clients, it was easier
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: at the time because some of them were late. Some
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: of them were canceling. So We'll see how this goes,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: but so far it's been really lovely and nice to have.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: It's a cool vibe. It's a cool setup here. I'm
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: happy to be here.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I'm sure the two followers I have on YouTube are like, oh,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: she's changed her background. But anyways, it is hard to
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: get guests. It is so hard.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: It's challenging. It's challenging, but I kind of have blinders on.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I was working on a very high profile subject that
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I was so close to getting and it just canceled
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the other day.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: And I think the old me would have been gutted
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: about it. Okay. Like, okay. Moving on.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: There's no time to sort of dwell back, circle back.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I wanted it to happen. It's not happening. You said
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: no for now. Let's, let's just move forward. So I
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: understand the grind.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a bunch of people, not a bunch, but
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: there's certain people that have said no to me who
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I have relationships with too, which has been a little shocking,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: but it's been a big motivator for me to keep
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: going because I can't wait to circle back. when I
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: have a bigger audience.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: Why do you think they've said no?
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I think just with schedules and, you know, at the beginning,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: it's like, I didn't, same as you, like I, people
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: took a chance on me. They came on because they were,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: we had a personal relationship and it was, it was
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: a very kind of all of my clients who have
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: my big famous clients who have come on. I, some
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: of them, I was like, wow, are you sure? Like
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: it was so kind. Um, and others, I think just like,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: didn't really get what I was doing at the time.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: But as I said to you earlier, this podcast, I
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: started it as be, I started this podcast because I
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: really want to talk about careers and mentorship and building teams.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: And that also obviously ties into my agency. But there
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: are so many younger folks who don't know what it
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: was like to work in New York before Instagram or
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: when there were still Blackberries and when unpaid internships were
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: still a thing. And that grind, you just don't see
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: it very often anymore. So I would love to just...
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: tell stories about that grind to remind people you got
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: to work. And if you want to make it anywhere,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: go be an assistant. Like that is just, that's, that's
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: all I have to say.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I was a, I'm originally from Toronto. I grew up
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: in Toronto. I'm Canadian, Canadian boy. And I graduated from
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: university and I got an unpaid internship in New York, um,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: at nylon magazine, um, And Nylon is still amazing, but Nylon,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: when I was interning there, was like rad.com.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: It was like, it was it. And I got an
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: unpaid internship there.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: How did you get that at the time?
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: How did I get that? I looked on the masthead
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: in the magazine. I found.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: the person's name who I wanted to get in touch with.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I figured out the email format and I emailed them
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: and they wrote me back immediately. I went to, I
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: came for an interview and I got the unpaid internship
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: and I spent a summer in New York city interning
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: at nylon in the advertising department. So I, I, And
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: it's a little blurry actually what I was doing because
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: I was sort of doing everything. Everything like all the tasks.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I was in the advertising department, but I was also
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the unofficial office coordinator. Like I was ordering like print cartridges.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I was definitely taking out the garbage. I was pinning
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: up magazines with the advertiser and sending them off so
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Diageo or Calvin Klein could see their ad in the magazine.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: I would walk the office dogs.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: There were office dogs? Yeah, the two founders of the
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: magazine had two dogs at the time, and they were like,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: the dogs were like the CEO of the company, and
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I would walk the dogs every day. And once you
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: gain the trust of the founders of the magazine to
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: walk their dogs, you were– I felt special.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: You should because I have two dogs, and you bet
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: your ass there is no one who is touching my
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: dogs unless I trust them.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: So I gained their trust through walking their dog. I
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: also think I gained their trust by getting them coffee.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I don't drink coffee.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: You don't drink coffee? No, I don't drink coffee.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: How?
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: I never really have.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: I don't like it.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. I love coffee.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: I don't like it. I'll never stop.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: So like, I know this sounds kind of silly, but
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: they were like, you know, I want an iced coffee
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: with like milk. Like, I don't know what that ratio is. Like,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: I don't, is it, so I would always like panic
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: every morning. Like, is it too much milk? Is it
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: not enough milk? So I would bring them coffee, put
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: a little bit of milk in it, and then I'd
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: get another container of milk on the side just in
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: case they wanted it.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: Just in case they wanted more.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know what they want. So I think it was–
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: But you cared enough to think that way.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: I also didn't want to get in trouble. Right.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what trouble looked like, but I
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to fuck this up. So
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: here's your coffee with your milk. If you want more milk,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: there's milk on the side. If not, toss it. At least, like,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: my ass is covered.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. I mean– I would do, similar to you,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: I would go around my floor at Ralph Lauren, my
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: first job out of college, and I would go up
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: to all the people who were on my floor, not
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: even my direct team, and say, I'm going to Starbucks
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: this morning. Does anyone want anything? And lo and behold,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: the entire floor would be like, yeah, I want Starbucks.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: And there was a point where I got into the
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: habit of going with three trays on top of each other. Damn.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: My first year. So I would do that every single morning.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if Venmo was around by then,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: but they would reimburse me with cash. Yeah. and I
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: would deliver it to everyone's desk, and that just became
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: my thing. I was the PR for.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: Barista.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Barista, literally. And I had a note... I had a
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: thing in my phone of everyone's order. So some mornings,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: if someone wasn't in already, I would just buy them
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: a coffee anyways, and that went such a long way.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Were you the best employee? I.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: In my 20s, that job, I was a good employee.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I wasn't the best employee.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: Like, I.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Definitely was like going out in New York and hung
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: over some mornings and not the best by any means,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: but I did my best. I gave it a good go. Ultimately,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: working a corporate job was not for me. And I
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: grew up nannying and babysitting and I was just so
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: fascinated with celebrity assisting. So that was a much better
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: fit for me, not being in a total corporate environment
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: where I had to show up every day in high
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: heels and fashion and be in a cubicle. That was
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: just not what excited me at the end of the day.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: I have a question for you.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Go for it.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: What do you think, like, what do you make of
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: a personality hire? Do you think it's a good thing?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's a bad thing? Do you think
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: it has a shelf life? I, Hmm.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I've done that.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Um, you've hired for personality.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: I have done that and it did not go well
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: for me. Now I think I would much rather hire...
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: When I think about building out my team and as
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: we continue to grow, I want to hire the person
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: who's going to work hard with a really good attitude,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: not the personality to hire. Because if you hire someone
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: because they're cool or they're fun, boundaries often become a
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: big problem, especially in my line of work because my
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: team is so small.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: And I've had....
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Boundary issues with certain people. And I'm at the point
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: in my life where I just really want to separate it.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to talk about your weekend. I'm happy to
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: talk about what's going on in your life. But I
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: don't really want to know it all. I think when
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: personal bleeds into work, it's often a result of a
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: personality hire.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's really hard, at least the way that
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I operate in the corporate structures that I've worked in,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: it's hard to separate the two.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: In fact, I don't want to.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: It's challenging.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Like, if I like these people, I kind of want
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: to know everything about them because I'm nosy and curious.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: And I do actually care. Yeah.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I'm spending all my time with these people. I kind
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: of want to know what's going on. But I understand
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: what you're saying. I think it can get very tricky.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: It can get tricky. I think it's case to case.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Who knows? I think when I have a bigger team,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I think I'll be more keen to hire someone because
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I like their vibe or because they're my friend. But
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: right now, because I'm still in building phase... it's not
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: something that's worked for me in the past.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Interesting. Okay.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Now I know.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: But maybe if I was doing something more creative, if
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I was in events.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: Or if I was in, if.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I was still in fashion, just for what I do
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: because it's such a grind still and because I really
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: need to surround myself by people who understand that we're
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: still in building mode and because of the caliber of
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: the client we deal with, I just, I don't know.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll change my answer, but for now.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: No, I think it's a good answer. I mean, I just...
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: People talk about it a lot.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I think there's been times in my life... Listen, I
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: do a good job, but there's been times in my
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: life where I question.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: I'm like, was I a personality hire? And.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: How about a hybrid? How about a hybrid?
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Listen, I think bringing a personality to the workplace is
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: a good thing. I think you need to have a
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: personality that sort of meshes with your team.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: And I think.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: think there's so much bullshit that happens at jobs. Like
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: if you can, you know, shoot the shit a little
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: bit and be like, and roll your eyes and get
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: along with your co-worker, but still get the task done.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: I think it's an okay thing. Yes.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: And that's what, that's the dynamic I do have on
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: my team. Now we all can do that and have
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: our side conversations and care about each other so much.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: And we are a little family and everyone works their asses.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: And I'm very lucky, but it took me a minute
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: to get here. I think right now my team is
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: definitely a little bit of a mix. We have personality hires,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: but we also have workers who like know the boundary,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: which is important to me.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, cool.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Anyways, everyone right now works out of my house and
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get an office this year. So it's
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: a little like the boundary thing is something that I'm
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: still navigating.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: I hear you.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: Can you also believe I don't drink coffee?
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. That's crazy. I tried to stop and I
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: can't stop.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: I don't like it.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Like I have to get another after this, obviously.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: I don't, I don't like it.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I hate the taste.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: I love the taste of coffee.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I had a coffee in the Hamptons this past summer
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: because I like lavender and I went to this like
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: little shop that had a lavender coffee and I was like, oh,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: why not?
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: Like, let's try that. I was, I was a mess.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: I was a fucking disaster. Really?
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: I was, I had anxiety. I had anxiety.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: That morning from that cup of coffee, I was like
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: running around. My heart was racing. I couldn't wait. I
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: think I took a nap. I had to like go
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: to bed.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. Some of my friends, it really affects. I
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: can have an espresso martini before bed and fall asleep. Yeah.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: I'm built different.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: You're built different. I can't handle it.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I love coffee. I'll never stop.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: Gotcha. Yeah.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Okay. So you moved from Toronto to New York with
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: a job at Nylon, which was probably so exciting back then.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: And you were mostly in the digital space for a
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: long time. When did you decide to pivot out of
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: the digital space?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: So I've kind of always sort of existed in the
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: digital space.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: I was at Nylon.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Then my first real job, which I was horrible at,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: was at V Magazine. And I was hired to run
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: their website, vmagazine.com and vman.com.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: And it was one of those things....
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I think I lied in the job interview in order
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: to get it and say like, I was very tech savvy.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm not tech savvy at all.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: I'm absolutely not tech savvy.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: I'm not tech savvy.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: No way.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: And I lied to say that I could sort of
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: do it all. And after I was there for maybe
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: like a year, a year and a half, there were
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: just so many things that I couldn't, I don't know
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: how to code. I don't know how to fix a
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: broken link. I didn't know how to do any of it,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: but it got my foot in the door. So I
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: was in the digital space and it was, a really
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: challenging job with a wonderful product, but a difficult working
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: environment for me. It was also my first job in
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: New York City in fashion. And there were celebrities and
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: there were parties and there were drinks and there were
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: like cover shoots. And I was just sort of enamored
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: by all of it. And I knew I sort of
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: always wanted to work in it. And luckily I have.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: But um, what was the question?
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: When did you decide to pivot out of this or
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: what were all of your career pivots?
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I think I've sort of maintained in like the digital
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: media space.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Since I started.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've worked at, and now I'm back in it.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Like I've, I worked at a few different advertising agencies
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: working on the social component of things. So while the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: creative directors who I were working with were handling the
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: big TV spots, print campaigns, whatever it would be, it
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: was like, okay, Yale, over here, figure out what the
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: social components are. And it was always sort of an
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: afterthought until 10 years ago and even more recent where
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: it's not an afterthought. It's the most important thing. It's
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the more prominent thing. You need to create social content.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: You need, hopefully, virality. You need to be able to
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: cut through. And I've always sort of existed in that
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: space at a time when I started out in magazines
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: that I wasn't given the privilege of working on the print,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: the printed publication, the magazine. It was always like Instagram
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: or the website or the video site. which nobody really
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: cared about in its inception. And now it's the only
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: thing that people care about. So I was at a
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: great place. I just didn't know it at the time.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: It's so crazy to think about that. Like even when
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I was at Ralph Lauren, there was so much focus
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: on the print. And I remember, I think I left
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: there in 2016. I think that was like the year
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: that like Instagram was popping off and that was when
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: fashion shows really changed from the fashion to who's sitting
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: in the front row and capturing content, which was kind
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: of sad for me because that's the stuff that used
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: to excite me. And the industry really did change right
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: then and there. And I know that we come from
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: similar backgrounds of nylon Ralph and whatever, but like coming
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: up in that time in New York was so interesting.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah. I mean, I recently fell in love with me.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: I fell back in love with New York city again.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Really? Yeah. What made you fall out of love? Have
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: you been here, by the way, since.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I've been here for about 18 years now.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: So it's not that I fell out of love with
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: New York City. And this is, like, a crazy thing
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: that I'm about to say, but I got these headphones, like,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Bose headphones.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: This isn't, like, a plug. This is actually true. Yeah.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I got these, like, Bose headphones, like, DJ style. Like,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: over the head, it's like I could, like, pump out
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: a club.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: And.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: They're noise canceling headphones.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I got them maybe like, I got them a long
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: time ago, but I just opened them maybe a month
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: or so ago.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: I put them on.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I walked the streets of New York. It cancels all
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: the noise. I pump a song and it, I, I'm
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: not joking. I've like fallen back in love with New
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: York city because of these headphones. It's like me and
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: my world taking in the city. Seeing things in a
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: new light without all the noise, choosing a song that
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I like, usually solo, walking through the streets of New
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: York on a weekend.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: There is nothing better than that, truly.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, this city rules. This is so cool.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: And I'm able to make the soundtrack to my existence
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: in the city through my headphones.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: I know it sounds psychotic, but it's true.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I completely relate. I live in L.A. most of the year.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I just got rid of my New York apartment in–
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: July 1 I moved out and I was out east
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: for the summer this is my first week back in
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: the city without an apartment I'm literally staying at the
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Bowery shout out to the Bowery love you guys but
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I need shout out to the Bowery shout out to
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: the Bowery Leo at the Bowery is the best but
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I need an apartment because I'm so back and forth
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: and I have been playing this mind game with myself
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: for the last however long that I've been bi-coastal I
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: hate that word six years of New York LA New
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: York LA and it's like I go so back and
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: forth on it that it's scary sometimes. But whenever I
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: land back in the city and I throw my AirPods
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: in and I go for a walk with my dogs,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I'm like, this is it. This is it. This is
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: the best thing ever.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Can I also say something else?
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I think people need to normalize the New York to LA,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: LA to New York commute is not as easy as
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: people make it seem.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's so easy. Oh.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Oh, I... I took the red eye.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: I love a red eye.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: I hate a red eye. I love red eyes. Why?
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I was so wrecked when I landed in the morning
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: back in New York.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: You just go back to bed.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: I was so disoriented. I was like, this is rough
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: on the body. I know people travel with ease. I'm
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: a little bit more like high strung when I travel.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: I also don't like flying.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I did not like flying until I was an assistant
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: and had to fly all the time. And then you
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: just sort of become numb to it. But I like
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: red eyes because there's no one in the airport at night.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: It's super quiet. Yeah. I don't like to fly during
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: the day because I need to be on call, so
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: it's more efficient for me to do a red-eye, especially
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: when I'm traveling with my massive golden retriever and my
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: French bulldog. There's less people to make fun of you
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: and be like, whoa.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I understand the time efficiency nature of a red-eye. I
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: haven't done it in years, and I did it a
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: few weeks ago, and I was fully wrecked.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: When I got back to New York.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: It's not for everyone. Some do wreck me, but.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: But I saved time. It was like– Yeah, it's quicker.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: It makes the flight not that bad.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: And I was so– I was such a mess when
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I landed. I was like, I don't know how people
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: do this all the time.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, not for everyone. But I do understand the
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: New York headphone thing. It's really getting to me this
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: week especially.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: It changed– good.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: I'm happy that we share that because it really changed
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: my perception of New York more.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: For the better.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: It's not that I never, I didn't fall out of
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: love with it. It just became sort of mundane after
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: all these years and these headphones changed the game.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's nothing like the energy here. It's crazy.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: That's the best.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Be careful with the noise canceling because all the stuff
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: on the street.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: I won't wear them on the subway. Okay.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: I'm like very alert. Yeah.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I won't.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I'm very alert on the subway, you know, and I
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: kind of did it safe. I did it like I
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: did it. Um, There was like a fair, you know,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: when the streets are closed, there's like all the food vendors.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: So there wasn't any traffic. It was just like me
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: walking through like the closed streets with my headphones on.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: So nice. I know. It sounds lovely. I know. I'll
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: send you my playlist.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe you'll listen to it and you'll have a love
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: affair with New York while you're here.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: I would love that.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I will always be in and out.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I'll probably move back. We don't know yet.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Move back. We'll see. Am I doing a good job?
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: You're doing an amazing job. Yes.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go back and ask you some more
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: questions about mentors.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: Yes. The hook of your show. Yeah.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: So who are your mentors and what shaped you when
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: you were younger? And I guess who motivated you?
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: My mentors.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Hmm. My parents will love this. My parents are certainly
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: mentors of mine.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: They... always um wanted me to.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Both personally and professionally explore my interests and no matter
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: what they were it was always like go for it
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: or how can we help you get there or they
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: saw something in me and let's let's hone this skill
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: i was a creative kid they put me in art
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: school i wanted to be an actor for a second
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: i had an a hollywood agent for like a minute
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: i didn't book anything but like Or maybe I did.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: I think a commercial. Maybe. Like nothing.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: But it was all these things that I wanted to
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: do that they supported me through and they still do
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to this day. So we'll start with mom and dad
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: and my sister as well.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: Professionally, I worked for these two.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Wonderful, wonderful guys, Eric Torsensen and Jens Greed.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: I know Eric. Yeah, they're amazing guys.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I don't think they know what a profound impact they
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: had on me personally, but.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: I worked with them.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: They had this agency called the Wednesday Agency, and the
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Wednesday Agency had a magazine as well called Industry, and
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: it was a fashion magazine.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: It was very scrappy.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: It was sort of the three of us and some freelancers,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: and they really let me run with that thing. and
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: they trusted me, and they believed in me, and it's
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: interesting because my time, looking back on my time working
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: with Eric and Jens at Industry, A, the product was
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: super cool, and I was really proud of what we
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: put out. I was able to sort of flex my
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: creativity with their guidance.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: No idea was a bad idea. They had an open-door policy,
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: and they were quite kind, and they were fun, you know?
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: So.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: And I still keep in touch with them to this day.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: And I really value them as people and certainly back
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: in the day as professional mentors.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: They were great bosses. That's all.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: We had a good time. We were putting out a magazine.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: It wasn't the main focus that they were doing. It
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: was this thing that sat off to the side that
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: they loved and they believed in.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: But it was a creative outlet.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: And I was there exercising their creative muscles and just
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: getting it done.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Do you think that maybe had a little to do
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: with inspiring you to go out on your own and
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: now do this podcast and explore your own passion project?
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was them per se. I
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: think it was just me thinking about my future and
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: seeing so many people trying something, trying to launch a business,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: trying to launch a podcast, trying to launch a product,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: trying to launch an agency, trying to launch a content platform.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: And I was.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Always sort of envious of people who got it off
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: the ground. I don't care if it's a success. I
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: don't care if it's a failure. But I was envious
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: of people who took the leap and took the chance
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: and put it out there.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: And that's the hardest part.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: It's the hardest part for sure.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: You have to sort of get over your imposter syndrome.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: You have to get over this like cringe mountain.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: That we all climb.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: It's so cringe.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: It's so cringe. And it still is like, Oh, I
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: can't listen.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: I cannot listen back to myself or yeah.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, listening to my voice.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Like it's like, I sound like that.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's why I have such a problem with
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: voices because like I have to listen to my voice
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: all the time.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: And yeah. Sometimes I like it. Sometimes I don't.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: To be clear, we love this, but it is, it is,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: it's cringe.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it can totally be cringe, but you
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: have to put yourself out there.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: You have to do it.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: And once you get over the cringe, then it, then
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: it's just easier. It's easier for me.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: It's always going to be a little bit cringey, but
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: it's not as cringe as it was.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: When I launched this a year ago. You know what?
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Fuck it. Yeah. Like who, I don't care.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: You're, you're going to laugh. You're going to make fun
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: of me. I, You're probably not. That's probably in my
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: head anyway. And if you are, get lost.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Scram.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: And people, everyone want... I think a lot of people
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: just don't have the courage to do it. And I
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: think that normalizing the cringe can just maybe help inspire
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: other people to start something like this or get out
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: there and make a video or go talk to someone,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: go have a conversation, put yourself out there. You're never going...
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: You're only going to regret not doing it. What's the
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: worst that can happen? Everyone is online these days, so.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: And everybody's doing it.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: And if you want to be like a founder-led podcast
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: product organization, you kind of have to, not kind of,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: you have to put yourself out there. You have to
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: do a lot of like camera work because people want
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: to see the individuals behind the product that's being revealed.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it's super uncomfortable, but I'm getting more used
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: to it now.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: And so what? I'm not getting any younger.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: So might as well just go for it and take
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: a chance. That's really truly how I feel.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: And the other way, the other thing that I feel is...
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: What's the other thing that I feel?
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: I had it. The other thing that I feel is
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: I don't remember.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: It's okay.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: I'm aligned with you on everything you just said.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: I'm hyper.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are too.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: I feel hyper.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I feel.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I need a coffee.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: You need a coffee? I don't.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: I really need a coffee.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: I would have brought you one.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: No.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Had I known.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Well, there is a coffee bar upstairs, which is another
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: very good added bonus of using this place.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Coffee bar, full bar.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: I love it. We could have had a drink. Yeah,
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: we could have.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We'll have a drink.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: We will.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: So what are your goals for Office Of?
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: What are my goals for Office Of? Well, I want
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: to continue... to water this plant that I've recently planted.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I want to continuously put out episodes. I eventually want
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: to make this office of into a book, a coffee
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: table book, you know, the modern, the, the modern guide
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: to being a good guy with excerpts from all these
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: people who I've spoken to and all my learnings that
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I've had. Um, I, like I said, I'm taking it
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: sort of into people's spaces and, I want to amplify
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: the content.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: I want to do way more.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I want to do shorter form content, but I want
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: to stay true to the message because I think what
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I've realized with men is they like to talk and
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: they don't always have an outlet. And I always say,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not a doctor. I'm not a therapist. I'm just
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: sort of curious. I'm inquisitive. I like to know what's
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: going on with people. I like to get to know
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: people sort of on a deeper level if I can.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: And I think that's sort of when magic happens is
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: when two people sort of are curious.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: Um, I'm really proud.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: I've had like a lot of straight dudes on office of,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: and I've had a lot of guys come on and
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: start crying.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: So good.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: That's really good.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: It's so good.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: When I have to take like another dive back and deep.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: Dive, they start to cry.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: And when I, I know it's going to happen when
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I see their eyes starting to water, I'm like, let's go.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: You're like, that's actually the reason why I have this
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: podcast to make straight men cry.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: I'm like, those tears better come down your eyes.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: That's really special.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And because, and they feel better about it
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: and everyone needs a good cry. Everybody needs a good cry.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: And they like talking about their things that are sort
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: of going on with them.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: The good, the bad and the ugly.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: So if I can continuously have conversations with men, um,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: in a positive, emotional, funny, witty, humorous, lighthearted way, then
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I'm carving out my niche and I'm doing something right.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: And it's like I asked you at the beginning, I'm
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: quite fulfilled doing it. I'm still figuring out exactly what
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: the business side looks like and I'm making a lot of.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Headway and I'm really proud of that.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: You should be.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. But it's still not entirely figured out.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I think you have to lean into... how things sort
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: of ebb and flow and don't dwell on the failures.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Don't necessarily celebrate all the successes. Just like keep at
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: it because it's just going to be the cycle.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Stay steady.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Stay steady. And that's how I feel right now. Listen,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: I'm proud that I got it off the ground and
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: I'm proud.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: That is the hardest part.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: It's the hardest part. It's the hardest part.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I had a really, one of my, Very best friends.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: This guy, Michael Scanlon.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: Do you know him? You should. And he should be
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: on this.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Would love.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: He's amazing.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: He really helped me with the branding and the identity
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: and the fonts and the colors. And he has really
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: believed in me and has given it the shape that
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: it needed. Because the interesting thing is sometimes with office stuff,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: like I can do social marketing and, you know, branding
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: for lots of different brands and clients that I work with.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Sometimes when it comes to me, I'm like paralyzed. I'm like,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: I have no idea how to do this for myself.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: So to have somebody like Michael, who I respect and
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: appreciate and have his eye on things from a branding
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: point of view, it's just made things.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: A lot better.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. So Michael is really the one helping you
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: on your side. Is there anyone else helping you?
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have this wonderful girl, Hallie.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: She sort of helped me get the business set up
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: in terms of the copyright, the trademark, the legal docs,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: all of that annoying shit.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: That goes into this.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: That goes into this. There's so much annoying.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: That like it makes my head spin and is so costly.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: But she's exceptional and she's wonderful. Um, and then it's
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: sort of all the agents and the publicists who sort
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: of have helped me along the way too, and who
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: are constantly pitching me some of their talent as well.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but I'm finally at
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: the place where people, you know, it's one thing if
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: I was working for a magazine, it's like, Hey, Yale,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: we have Michael B.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: Jordan. Can we, what do you think of him for
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: the cover of X magazine?
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: You know, it's another thing when this agent comes and
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: it's like, Hey, we have X talent, he would be
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: great for Office Of. Office Of is me. It's not
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: me standing on behalf of somebody else. It's not an
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: established publication. It's not an established brand.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: It's me.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: So I'm satisfied when those come in because it means
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: that people are paying attention to something that I am
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: building from scratch.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: And that must feel so good.
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels great.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Have you ever turned someone down from your podcast?
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: That maybe you didn't align with?
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Do you mean like If they've come on.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: If they've reached out to you or a publicist has
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: reached out to you.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: Tons.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. Which is just crazy because I'm like,
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: beggars can't be choosers. But I also feel like this
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: is so specific and I really don't want to sit
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: across from someone just to sit across from someone. I
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: actually only want to do it if it feels really
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: interesting to me and, and like something that rolls off
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: so easy like this.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: For sure. This has been so fun. For sure. Are
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: you enjoying yourself?
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: I love this.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, good. Are you enjoying yourself? Yeah, I'm having a
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: really good time. Okay, good. I was nervous, but now
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: I'm not.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: No, this is very chill.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: Okay, good.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Very, very chill. Um, yeah, it's, it's funny. Like you
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: have to feel aligned. You have to feel like, I
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: don't know. I think if you say yes to everyone,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: then what does that say about you?
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Like, I am trying to have this, like, well-rounded group
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: of guys from actors, musicians, painters, CEOs, founders, marathon runners,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: everybody in between. I don't want it just to be
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: New York centric, which is a little tricky because I
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: live here and those are the people that I know.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: And that's where we film moving forward. It's going to
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: be a little bit different.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: So I have this bird's eye view of not making
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: it feel so New York focused. And it's challenging because
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: that's where I am and that's where the easiest access is.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Right, that's your core.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: My core.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm excited to see you expand and I can't
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: wait to take another dive on your pod because I
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: really am personally very curious about the way men think
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: and what makes them feel confident. So after all your
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: discussions so far in your 40 episodes, what would you
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: say some of your biggest takeaways are?
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God. It's a good question.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Or a common theme, maybe.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: Men?
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: When given the platform and given the opportunity really like
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: to talk and are an open book they're just not
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: always given the platform to speak freely And I think
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: when they feel safe and they feel comfortable speaking to
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: somebody about really what's going on in their lives, they're not.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: Afraid to show up.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: And I've really realized that in all the conversations that
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: I've had. Again, it's getting to know these people on
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: a deeper level and you have to make them feel comfortable.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: You have to make them feel safe, even when there's
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: cameras rolling and even when there's audio and production. But
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: when they're given the platform and they're given the opportunity,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: they really don't hold back. And that's something that I've
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: learned over all the episodes that I put out for sure.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: They just need the space. And that's sort of what
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to do, give them the space to talk.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: So cool. I mean, it does take a lot to
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: get someone to come sit across from you and to
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: make them feel comfortable. I feel like not everyone can
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: do this, right? Yeah.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: No, not everybody can do it.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to give you and I both a compliment. Right.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: It's like you can't like.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: No, not everybody can do it.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: It's not. It's hard. It's hard.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: We're good with people.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: We're people people.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's sometimes when I'm in your seat and I
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: wonder if you feel this, it's really challenging for me
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: and I feel drained because you need to make this
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: conversation flow. You, I'm sure, are thinking about what's coming next.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Do you want it to feel as sort of natural
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: as possible? So I believe that you're sort of in
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: the moment, but you also have an agenda that you
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: need to get through. Within a certain time, there's points
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: that you need to hit. There's a hook to this
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: conversation that you want to make sure comes through. So
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: you're constantly like, sometimes I think it's like mental gymnastics,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: just trying to get something out of somebody while making
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: the conversation progress.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: And hitting the next points. It's not the easiest thing. Yes.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: But you are very good at it.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you. That's very sweet. Well, this is a collab.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: You're also very good at it. We're kind of collabing.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: You're asking me questions too.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: You're very good at this as well.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, good.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: I've never actually... I don't think I've sat across from
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: someone else who has a.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: Actually.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: My friend Tanks has a podcast, so she came on
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: with her assistant.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: She's great.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: Who I'm not responsible for, and I wish I was
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: responsible for that relationship. But that was the only other
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: person that I think came on who has their own podcast.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: Really? Yeah. Do you have a favorite guest? If you
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: don't say me, I'm walking out.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: It's you. Favorite guest, that's so hard because I truly
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: love all my clients, and I'm so fortunate to have
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: such great clients who come on. I don't think I've
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: laughed harder than when Savannah came on the other week.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: I was like literally peeing my pants laughing. And Emilio
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Vitolo came on.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw that.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: And he came and sat down on my couch and
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: was like, can I curse on this thing? And I
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, go for it. And literally every other word,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: it's like boop, boop, boop. And his story is also crazy.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: So I'm not just focused on celebrities, obviously. I want
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: to have the founders and the restauranteurs and, hoteliers and
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: fellow podcasters. Like I, it's, this podcast is about mentorship
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: and it's how you got your start and it's about
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: career advice. And I, you know, I don't discriminate, but
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: I also obviously want to be a little selective and
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: figure out who makes sense for my brand and what
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to talk about. So it's been really fun
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: to build out and obviously like a little challenging to
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: navigate because I'm also new here. I'm so not someone
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: who's used to being in front of the camera. I'm
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: so the girl that is always behind the scenes, but
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: I want to get this messaging out and really encourage
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: people to be assistants and work in entertainment and just
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: work hard and grind. And if you really want it,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: like you got to work for it.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: You got to work for it.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: And I think that's what I've realized in all my
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: jobs and my upbringing.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: I've always had a job.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I've always worked and I've always sort of understood the
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: importance of it and the importance of a dollar.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: Like you need to work, you need to work hard.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: And I have that really ingrained in who I am, especially,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: especially going out on your own. Like my friend Ian
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: once said this to me, he's like, no one's going
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: to do your pushups for you.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's true.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, now that we wrap up, What piece of
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: advice would you give someone who's looking to start their
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: own podcast or start their own company or just go
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: out on their own in any way, shape, or form?
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: What I have learned in this new journey that I
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: am on is do not be afraid to ask for
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: help and do not be afraid to ask for favors.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: The worst thing that somebody can say is no or
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: not reply to you.
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: But I have.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Even where I am right now, I am constantly asking
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: for help. It's a little uncomfortable at times, but it's
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: the only way that you're going to progress.
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: So don't be afraid to ask for help.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: My other thing is when I ask for help, I'm
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: very clear about what it is that I need help with.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: I think people are so busy and don't have a
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: ton of time. If you're very pointed with your ask
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: and very clear with what you want, then they can
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: wrap their brain around it.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: But if you sort of go in sort of loosey-goosey,
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, I want to do this. I want
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: to do that.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I'm good at this. I'm good at that. It's like, dude,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to help you. I think you
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: need to sort of narrow your focus.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: A little bit. Right.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: So definitely don't be afraid to ask for help.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: Have a clear focus.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: And once you get over the cringiness of putting something
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: out there, that's not it. You continuously have to add
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: to it. And you continuously have to water it to
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: make it grow.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Don't be discouraged by the lack of growth at the
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: beginning or the lack of growth at the end. Like
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: I still want my numbers to be way higher. I
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: want my Instagram followers to be through the roof. They're not,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: but you know, I'm continuously pounding the pavement and watering
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: it and it's only going to continue to grow.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: So well said. I love that. And I echo all
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: the same sentiments. Like I'm trying to do the same.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: And I think what you said about asking for help
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: and being specific is There's so many kids that come
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: through our doors that ask for help or they're like, oh,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: I might want to do this. I might want to
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: do this. I'm like, get clear. Get really clear.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Get clear.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: The clearer you are, the more helpful it is to
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: me because then I know who to connect you with.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Or I know what to do.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: Exactly. I also think like use the DM.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Use it.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Hey.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Hey.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: I use it. I use it. Yeah, exactly. I use
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: it a lot.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: I think it's very, it's a direct line of access
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: to somebody who you want to talk to.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Totally. And with that being said, fellas. Yeah.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: Slide in.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: Slide in. To us both. That sounds weird.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in. This
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: was really fun. I hope I made you comfortable.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: You made me very comfortable. Thank you for having me on.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm very excited to see. Yes. your future and
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: see how this thing progresses for you because it's not easy.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: So any entrepreneur who's doing it or trying to do it,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: I support.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: So thanks for having me on. Oh my God, of course.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: And how can people find you on socials?
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: At Office of and at Yale Breslin.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: We love.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: We love. We love. It's easy.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you guys.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Bye.