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Bryan Kohberger Stashes 'Momento' of Quadruple Stabbing Victim · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece Brian Coburger in the headlines again.
0:18
Speaker 1: As you will recall, Coburger charged in the murders of
0:21
Speaker 1: four Beautiful University, Idaho students, believed to have been asleep
0:27
Speaker 1: at the time of the attack. In the last hours,
0:32
Speaker 1: we learn that Coburger apparently kept a memento, a trophy
0:37
Speaker 1: of sorts from one of his murder victims. What we
0:43
Speaker 1: believe a student ID or driver's license was kept by
0:48
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger. Now the ID has been identified as being
0:56
Speaker 1: found in either Coburger's car or Coburger's family home, put
1:05
Speaker 1: inside a glove in a box. Now there has been
1:11
Speaker 1: much ado regarding was it found in the glove compartment
1:16
Speaker 1: in his card or in a box in a glove
1:19
Speaker 1: in his parents home. Either way, it's a memento. It's
1:25
Speaker 1: a trophy from the quadruple murders. Joining me right now,
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, founder and director of the Cold Case Research
1:34
Speaker 1: Institute and star of a brand new hit series podcast,
1:38
Speaker 1: Zone seven. Cheryl, can you believe this guy? You know, Nancy,
1:43
Speaker 1: you and I talked early on about him having some
1:47
Speaker 1: type of trophy, some type of memento that he would
1:50
Speaker 1: keep the fact that it's an ID tells me not
1:54
Speaker 1: only did he want it, he wanted it close to him.
1:58
Speaker 1: That's something you could carry in your wallet, so that
2:01
Speaker 1: you could put in your visor of your car and
2:03
Speaker 1: look at it. It's not big and it's it's protected.
2:08
Speaker 1: So the fact that an I do would have some
2:10
Speaker 1: you know, type of you know, covering to keep it
2:14
Speaker 1: where you've spilled something, it would maintain its integrity. That
2:18
Speaker 1: just tells me what it meant to him. Sure, I'm
2:20
Speaker 1: a collum. Do you know you know how I scrap book? Right? Oh? Yeah,
2:24
Speaker 1: and yeah, I know. I completely took over my husband's closet.
2:29
Speaker 1: He's got room now for like one shirt and one
2:33
Speaker 1: sock because the rest of the whole closet are stacks
2:36
Speaker 1: and stacks of scrap books and they're mostly photo albums
2:42
Speaker 1: with memento stuck in there. Right man, I got behind. Okay,
2:46
Speaker 1: so I'm stuck on Christmas twenty seventeen and it's all
2:51
Speaker 1: over the den. I haven't even made it up to
2:55
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve yet. But that said, I was looking at
3:01
Speaker 1: the day the morning it was a Saturday morning, and
3:04
Speaker 1: see I'm doing it right now. I was putting together
3:06
Speaker 1: the segment in the scrape book about when the twins
3:11
Speaker 1: and I and then David wandered in decorated the Christmas tree.
3:16
Speaker 1: And I was remembering because there was a picture of it.
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Speaker 1: John David was playing the piano while we were decorating,
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Speaker 1: and I made him stop and come over and help
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Speaker 1: me decorate. The piano's right by the Christmas tree, and
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Speaker 1: I was just remembering that, and we had Christmas music playing,
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Speaker 1: and It's one of the closest things that I've ever
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Speaker 1: come to a hallmark moment at Christmas time. But that said,
3:44
Speaker 1: I couldn't help because this news came out as I'm
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Speaker 1: working right in the middle of twenty seventeen Christmas with
3:49
Speaker 1: the twins, And can't you just imagine co Burger with
3:54
Speaker 1: that id And you know it's one of the females
4:00
Speaker 1: Alleagal saw was Mannie Logan. I think one of them.
4:06
Speaker 1: Of course it could have been Zanna. I think, well,
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Speaker 1: obviously it was one of the girls, So I'll leave
4:12
Speaker 1: it at that. How many times he looked at that idea? Now, Cheryl,
4:16
Speaker 1: what about this? Get this in your head. Remember his
4:19
Speaker 1: father was driving the Elantra at one time during the
4:23
Speaker 1: trek from Washington State University over two thousand miles to
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Speaker 1: the parents' home in the Poconos for I guess it
4:31
Speaker 1: was Christmas vacation, and he had that idea with him
4:36
Speaker 1: because whether it was found in the glove compartment of
4:39
Speaker 1: his Elantra or whether it was found in a glove
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Speaker 1: in a box in his parents home, he had to
4:45
Speaker 1: transport it. And how many times during that trip did
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Speaker 1: he console himself or worse with that ID. It was
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Speaker 1: a vital part of his post behavior, There's no doubt
4:59
Speaker 1: about that. And the fact that we know it was
5:02
Speaker 1: in the vehicle while his dad was there, he probably
5:05
Speaker 1: took some that kind of twisted you know, gratification in
5:11
Speaker 1: that as well. So if it was in the glove compartment,
5:14
Speaker 1: so to speak, the glove compartment was locked, so his
5:17
Speaker 1: dad couldn't maybe gain entry. And remember when they were
5:20
Speaker 1: stopped by law enforcement, not once, but twice, what if
5:24
Speaker 1: that idea was in his wallet at the time. Yeah, wallet,
5:28
Speaker 1: it's a good idea. The whole reason people started thinking
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Speaker 1: that this ID and it could have been a student ID,
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Speaker 1: it could have been a driver's license, it could have
5:38
Speaker 1: been a library card, it could have been any type
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Speaker 1: of idea. It could have been a credit card without
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Speaker 1: a picture on it. We don't know what it is yet,
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Speaker 1: but a wallet would have been a good place to
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Speaker 1: hide it. I think the idea of the glove compartment
5:53
Speaker 1: came from the fact that if you look at I
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Speaker 1: believe it's entry number thirty five of the many any
6:00
Speaker 1: lines in the search want return, it says I d
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Speaker 1: found in a glove in a box. It could have
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Speaker 1: been a box of stuff he brought back from Washington State.
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Speaker 1: It could have been a box that he hid you
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Speaker 1: in his parents' home. But just think about him going
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Speaker 1: to the effort of putting it inside of a glove.
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Speaker 1: I was saying earlier. It reminds me of people that
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Speaker 1: still hide things in their underwear or their sock drawer,
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Speaker 1: which I'm totally guilty about. I still have in their
6:32
Speaker 1: locks of the twins hair when they would get their
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Speaker 1: first haircuts and more, and their teeth at the tooth
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Speaker 1: Fairy returned to me after she took them. Yeah, in
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Speaker 1: my underwear drawer, Like, that's not an obvious place to look.
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Speaker 1: People high jewelry and everything else in there. But just
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Speaker 1: think about the act of him. Let's just say hiding
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Speaker 1: the id in a glove in a box, transporting it
7:01
Speaker 1: across the country and then having it at his parents home.
7:05
Speaker 1: What about that and knowing the whole time it was there.
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Speaker 1: And it's all about power and control or over your
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Speaker 1: victim or reliving the moment. Oh, it's definitely reliving, no question,
7:18
Speaker 1: it's reliving. And the fact that it's in a glove,
7:21
Speaker 1: think about it. There was a glove left outside the scene.
7:25
Speaker 1: He might have worn gloves at one point. So the
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Speaker 1: glove to me is a little twisted too that that's
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Speaker 1: what you're going to put it in. I mean, you
7:32
Speaker 1: can put it in a smaller box than inside another box.
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Speaker 1: He doesn't do that. He chooses a glove, which I
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Speaker 1: think is critical. And you know, Nancy, you know I've
7:43
Speaker 1: got an old cigar box and it's one of those
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Speaker 1: old wooden ones that's real pretty at all, and I
7:50
Speaker 1: had some stuff from when Walton I were in high
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Speaker 1: school and to anybody else that's jump but not to mince.
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Speaker 1: So again, anybody that might have humbled upon this, they
8:00
Speaker 1: didn't know where it occurred. The glove would be meaningly
8:05
Speaker 1: and I don't know what might have been in that box.
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Speaker 1: It might have just looked like like a jump doing
8:10
Speaker 1: your thing time stories with Nancy Grace. You know. The
8:28
Speaker 1: other day I was with Lucy. I forgot where we were,
8:31
Speaker 1: but she had the wrapper off of a drinking straw
8:37
Speaker 1: and she sat there and turned it into a ring
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Speaker 1: and put it on my ring finger. And we were
8:44
Speaker 1: getting out of there. We had dinner wherever we were,
8:47
Speaker 1: and we were getting out, and we always try to
8:51
Speaker 1: gather up all the They trashed the car. It's insane.
8:56
Speaker 1: It's constantly trash because of the twins. Anyway, I said,
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Speaker 1: let's gather up all this trash and get out. And
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Speaker 1: she grabbed the little ring and say, here, throw this away.
9:03
Speaker 1: I'm like, are you kidding? I'm keeping this ring And
9:06
Speaker 1: I put it on my finger and guess what I
9:08
Speaker 1: did keep it so it might look like junk to
9:12
Speaker 1: a lot of people, but it's something to us. But
9:16
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about the planning it took for him
9:20
Speaker 1: to take that id out of the victims home and
9:25
Speaker 1: then leave with it. That's very risky behavior to keep
9:30
Speaker 1: an ID. And I made up a list of other
9:33
Speaker 1: killers that have kept things all right. Listen to this
9:37
Speaker 1: ed guyne who was I started to say insane, but
9:41
Speaker 1: he was not legally insane. A gun made masks with
9:45
Speaker 1: his victim's faces. Okay, there's this other guy, Evomulot. He
9:51
Speaker 1: would stalk his victims at campsites, then murder them, then
9:57
Speaker 1: bury them in the woods. But he would keep pieces
10:01
Speaker 1: of their camping equipment. I mean, just think what if
10:05
Speaker 1: he used their camping equipment. Every time he would stir
10:08
Speaker 1: something in one of their pots and pants, he would
10:10
Speaker 1: remember that particular murder victim Alex Mangele wait for it.
10:16
Speaker 1: When police were doing their search, they thought they found
10:18
Speaker 1: a wig. It was not a wig. It was one
10:21
Speaker 1: of the victim's scalps, and he kept it and he
10:25
Speaker 1: actually wore it when he snatched his next victim. We've
10:29
Speaker 1: got John George Hay actually kept his victim's dog. Really,
10:36
Speaker 1: he kept the victim's dog. Every time the dog would
10:41
Speaker 1: run to the door or come for a pet, he
10:44
Speaker 1: would think his murder victim. I mean, he goes on
10:48
Speaker 1: and on and on. Robert Hanson kept victim's jewelry. John
10:52
Speaker 1: Christie kept bodies in his kitchen. One killer Stanley Dean
10:59
Speaker 1: Baker kept his victims bones, always the finger bones. What
11:04
Speaker 1: were you saying Damer. I mean he kept yeah, bodies
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Speaker 1: and genitals. He kept his victims genitals, I guess the
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Speaker 1: penis and the testicles. Harvey Glatman photographed his victims after
11:18
Speaker 1: they were dead, and at one point I think that
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Speaker 1: they couldn't find one of the bodies, but they had
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Speaker 1: the picture of the dead body. Dennish Raider, That's who
11:28
Speaker 1: I was thinking, kept copies of or the actual victims
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Speaker 1: driver's licenses, much like what we're seeing right now. And
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Speaker 1: we know there's some weird connection between Dahmer and BTK
11:43
Speaker 1: excuse me, between Coburger and BTK Dennis Raider. So what
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Speaker 1: about the fact they may have copycat mementos? It would
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Speaker 1: be again completely significant. And here's what it says to me, Oh,
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Speaker 1: your driver's license. I'm gonna be able to remember it
11:58
Speaker 1: not just your faith, but an address other things about
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Speaker 1: you that it's going to say on there, whether or
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Speaker 1: not you're an organ donor the color of your eyes,
12:08
Speaker 1: your weight, all of that is on there. So I'm
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Speaker 1: capturing this moment in time forever, and again I can
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Speaker 1: keep it really close to me because it's small. When
12:19
Speaker 1: you're talking about mask and IDs and wigs and photographs
12:23
Speaker 1: you're talking about a victim's faith. It is critical to
12:27
Speaker 1: that killer. They want to remember what you looked like,
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Speaker 1: what they fantasized about the other folks. When you are
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Speaker 1: talking about equipment and dogs, that is something you've touched.
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Speaker 1: That's something that you loved, That something you took care of,
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Speaker 1: and he took that from you. So he's revictimizing you
12:43
Speaker 1: again on a different level. Now we've also got ted Bundy,
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Speaker 1: who would keep victim's heads and then he would masturbate
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Speaker 1: with the head. Now that's something to pause and think
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Speaker 1: about just for a moment there. Well, I can tell
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Speaker 1: you all of these that we kept were masturbated with
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Speaker 1: every one of them. You know. Um, when I talked
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Speaker 1: to you, As I've said before, I never know if
13:07
Speaker 1: i need a shrink or a drink, but since I'm
13:09
Speaker 1: a teetotal, I'll have to go with a shrink, you know,
13:12
Speaker 1: after a Yeah, right, people say a masturbation tool. Actually yes,
13:21
Speaker 1: when people say coburger, it wasn't a sexual crime. I
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Speaker 1: always tell people, you don't know that preim post behavior matters.
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Speaker 1: What he thought of that scene is what matters, not
13:33
Speaker 1: what the general public thing. You know. Another thing about
13:35
Speaker 1: him keeping him a mento, and that is what it is.
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Speaker 1: There's no reason for him to have one of these
13:42
Speaker 1: victims IDs, none at all, except to relive the moment.
13:48
Speaker 1: I wonder how he got it now. A lot of
13:50
Speaker 1: people believe Coburger had been in the home before the
13:54
Speaker 1: murders took place. I don't know if I agree with that.
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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about him fumbling around inside the home, the
14:03
Speaker 1: girl's home, and Ethan Chapin was also there that night.
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Speaker 1: Did one of the victims have her id laying outside
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Speaker 1: the bed? A lot of people do that. Did they
14:14
Speaker 1: have it on the kitchen counter so they could grab
14:16
Speaker 1: it in their car keys when they leave in the morning,
14:18
Speaker 1: and a lot of people do that. Did he just
14:20
Speaker 1: see it and grab it or did he fumble around
14:25
Speaker 1: in the dark looking for mementos? And if he took that,
14:29
Speaker 1: it makes me wonder did he take anything else, like
14:34
Speaker 1: some killers take the woman's underwear, or they take jewelry
14:40
Speaker 1: or a photo. He could have other things that have
14:44
Speaker 1: not been identified yet as belonging to these victims, Cheryl.
14:47
Speaker 1: He could have other things that haven't been located, like
14:50
Speaker 1: issual keys. We don't know that he hasn't hidden things
14:52
Speaker 1: somewhere in a cachet and some bucket. We don't know. Well,
14:56
Speaker 1: what we do know is what he took again, to me,
15:01
Speaker 1: is one of the most significant things you can take,
15:04
Speaker 1: because if you take underwear, that's not her face, that's
15:07
Speaker 1: not where she went to school, that's not an address,
15:11
Speaker 1: that's something that only you would know what he took.
15:16
Speaker 1: Once it's located, everybody's going to know this is hers.
15:21
Speaker 1: This isn't Oh, was this underwear belonging to a B
15:24
Speaker 1: or C. We may not know this. This we know
15:30
Speaker 1: another aspect of this, Cheryl McCallum. There's so it's like
15:33
Speaker 1: a rubus que. You have to keep turning it and
15:35
Speaker 1: turning it and thinking about it. And this may never
15:38
Speaker 1: be part of the evidence at trial. But there's the
15:41
Speaker 1: additional psychological twist that he brings this memento of a
15:47
Speaker 1: quadruple murder and its fixation on at least one of
15:50
Speaker 1: these girls into his parents' home, right under their noses.
15:57
Speaker 1: They suspect nothing, they know nothing, They welcome him with
16:01
Speaker 1: open arms, and then right under their noses, he has
16:04
Speaker 1: a memento in their home of a quadruple murder, and
16:10
Speaker 1: not just that he went to their home after his
16:14
Speaker 1: car was identified, Like he knew they're getting close. They're
16:18
Speaker 1: looking at the car I drive. They are looking within
16:22
Speaker 1: eight miles of where I live. For me, now they
16:25
Speaker 1: put out a video, So now they're tracking my car
16:29
Speaker 1: quite possibly right back to my apartment complex. And not
16:32
Speaker 1: only did he keep it, he kept it in the
16:35
Speaker 1: same Dagon car they're looking for, and then transported it
16:39
Speaker 1: into Mama's house. Like they're not going to be able
16:42
Speaker 1: to get a warrant for here, They're only going to
16:43
Speaker 1: be able to get a warrant for my apartment. Again,
16:46
Speaker 1: he doesn't understand how you know this thing really works.
16:51
Speaker 1: There were two estates that he made that clearly tell me.
16:56
Speaker 1: Let me just say this. Everybody's asked me, do you
16:58
Speaker 1: think he's killed before? Do you think there's other victims everywhere?
17:02
Speaker 1: I don't know how there's other victims everywhere. When he
17:06
Speaker 1: made the mistakes he did with this one, he would
17:08
Speaker 1: have been caught before. I mean, he used his own car,
17:12
Speaker 1: he used his own cell phone. He didn't have enough
17:15
Speaker 1: sense to really shut the whole thing down. He's used
17:18
Speaker 1: his apartment to hide crab. He uses Mama's house to
17:21
Speaker 1: hide crab. I don't see this as a criminal genius
17:24
Speaker 1: that's gotten and he takes the memento. That's a huge
17:28
Speaker 1: blunder as far as I'm concerned, huge blunder. And again
17:31
Speaker 1: a pair of underwear. I couldn't put this belongs to
17:35
Speaker 1: this victim for sure, but an idea. I can't crime
17:53
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Now, when you mentioned potential other cases,
18:00
Speaker 1: a police are currently we've been told looking at two
18:03
Speaker 1: other cases in Pennsylvania. Now are they connected? Don't know.
18:09
Speaker 1: Another thing that has come up, very very curious is
18:14
Speaker 1: potential communications between well, I can't say it's between Coburger
18:20
Speaker 1: and one of the female victims, but by Coburger as
18:23
Speaker 1: far back as twenty twenty one was he fixated on
18:28
Speaker 1: one of these girls before he even started his PhD
18:32
Speaker 1: program at WSU Washington State University. Another issue we are
18:36
Speaker 1: learning about is potential demolition of the crime scene. The
18:41
Speaker 1: home where the four students were murdered. It was set
18:44
Speaker 1: to be demolished and then suddenly screeched to a halt.
18:47
Speaker 1: Seeryl McCollum, I do not think it should be demolished
18:51
Speaker 1: until after the trial and after the appellate courts confirmed
18:56
Speaker 1: the affirmed the conviction, and that could be from a
19:00
Speaker 1: long time. We just saw Alex Murdog's jury taken to
19:07
Speaker 1: the dog kennels. We know that Maggie and Paul were murdered.
19:12
Speaker 1: We saw the OJ Simpson jury want to go see
19:16
Speaker 1: the home where OJ Simpson lived at the time. I
19:19
Speaker 1: mean if denied that opportunity, if it becomes integral or
19:24
Speaker 1: critical at the trial to the defense, that could be
19:27
Speaker 1: a big problem. Well, we already follow it. When they
19:30
Speaker 1: tried to move everything out and give everything back to
19:32
Speaker 1: the parents. The deepense was like, wait a minute, we
19:35
Speaker 1: have the right to look at this too and examine everything.
19:39
Speaker 1: You and I are firm believers that the jury not
19:43
Speaker 1: only has the right to, but should visit a crumb scene.
19:47
Speaker 1: I don't think anything should be kept from a jury.
19:50
Speaker 1: You are making the decision whether somebody is going to
19:52
Speaker 1: lose their freedom. You should have access to everything or
19:57
Speaker 1: their life. Correct. One more issue, I think we then
20:02
Speaker 1: the KAI boss has been put on demolishing the house
20:05
Speaker 1: for now anyway. But that said, here is another monster
20:10
Speaker 1: that has reared its ugly head. The rumor of an
20:16
Speaker 1: internal affairs investigation on one of the cops. Don't know
20:22
Speaker 1: how involved, they were in the coburger case, but on
20:26
Speaker 1: some cop involved. We don't know if it's a cop,
20:30
Speaker 1: if it's a man or a woman, if it's a detective,
20:33
Speaker 1: it's a crime scene analyst. That we don't know. But
20:35
Speaker 1: there is a report of an internal affairs investigation, you
20:38
Speaker 1: know what, that could skew the whole thing. Look what
20:41
Speaker 1: happened in O. J. Simpson, Absolutely right. Do you know
20:44
Speaker 1: what the allegation is for the AA. I've heard rumors,
20:46
Speaker 1: but I'm not prepared to state it. Understood. Well, here's
20:49
Speaker 1: the deal. It doesn't matter. It's going to be a
20:52
Speaker 1: black guy no matter what. And again, those things, though,
20:57
Speaker 1: you know, they're made public and that can come in
21:01
Speaker 1: the revolts of it can come in. Oh yeah, it's
21:04
Speaker 1: called Brady versus Maryland. That went all the way to
21:07
Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court, and it was determined that anything exculpatory,
21:13
Speaker 1: which means it esculpates or the defendant or shows that
21:18
Speaker 1: they may not be guilty, has to be handed over
21:21
Speaker 1: by the state if they know about it, to the defense.
21:25
Speaker 1: And that could be anything from a witness saying that's
21:30
Speaker 1: not the guy I saw at the scene. It could
21:32
Speaker 1: be a cop with an investigation going on, an internal
21:35
Speaker 1: affairs investigation. It could be anything that touches on the
21:39
Speaker 1: credibility of the state's case, anything, so it has to
21:45
Speaker 1: be handed over. I mean, I would advise the state,
21:48
Speaker 1: if there's a way to do it, not to put
21:49
Speaker 1: the cop up at all. No, I mean, what do
21:53
Speaker 1: you think. We all remember that you've got to tell
21:58
Speaker 1: the truth and it should come from you first. It
22:01
Speaker 1: should not be anything that somebody gets blindsided with. You know,
22:04
Speaker 1: it's going to be really difficult for the defense to
22:09
Speaker 1: explain away any fantastical tell they will come up with,
22:15
Speaker 1: to explain why one of the victims ID is with Coburner.
22:21
Speaker 1: How in the world can they explain that much less,
22:25
Speaker 1: Ran McCollum, when in combination with the totality of the evidence.
22:28
Speaker 1: And that's just the evidence that we know of right now,
22:31
Speaker 1: that's right, and they have more. We don't know how
22:34
Speaker 1: everything ties in from the apartment to mama's house to
22:38
Speaker 1: his car, but it is a plethora of information and evidence.
22:43
Speaker 1: And you've got his DNA inside that room on a
22:46
Speaker 1: nice chief. You've got that, we know, we've got the
22:50
Speaker 1: phone pinion, we've got him having a traffic ticket, in
22:53
Speaker 1: the same neighborhood. We've got the social media stuff that's
22:56
Speaker 1: going to come out. When the social media stuff comes out,
23:00
Speaker 1: it's gonna blow your mind. This dude was obsessed with
23:04
Speaker 1: the third floor, and those two victims, in my opinion,
23:10
Speaker 1: are the target. The third floor has been the whole
23:13
Speaker 1: key to me from day one, including again the dog
23:18
Speaker 1: and the dog not being harmed. There's a ton of
23:22
Speaker 1: stuff that's going to make complete sense once it comes out.
23:25
Speaker 1: Just imagining Coburger and his efforts to clean up from
23:29
Speaker 1: the crime scene, coming back to his apartment covered in blood,
23:35
Speaker 1: covered in fiber, possibly dog hairs. There's no way he
23:39
Speaker 1: can get away from dog hairs because that dog had
23:41
Speaker 1: been all over that house, and no matter where he
23:44
Speaker 1: went in the home, he came in contact with the
23:46
Speaker 1: dog hairs, the extremes he went to to clean up.
23:51
Speaker 1: But yet, after all that planning and all that imagining
23:56
Speaker 1: and fantasizing about the murders, he's ill took my mento,
24:02
Speaker 1: one of the student IDs with him. You know how
24:08
Speaker 1: many times do you think he has really lived it
24:10
Speaker 1: behind bars? Could have, would have, should have. I can't
24:13
Speaker 1: believe I left without the sheaf. I can't believe I
24:17
Speaker 1: turned my phone on, you know, halfway home from the crime,
24:21
Speaker 1: said all the things he did wrong that are now
24:24
Speaker 1: coming back to bite him in the neck. Every day.
24:27
Speaker 1: He runs through it every day, and it probably is
24:32
Speaker 1: destroying his ego to the point that he I mean,
24:36
Speaker 1: he's not okay anyway, but this certainly is going to
24:39
Speaker 1: be something that you know, he battles every day. And
24:43
Speaker 1: you know what I tell people when they say, well,
24:45
Speaker 1: you know, is there such a thing as a perfect chrome?
24:49
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of a wedding that took a
24:53
Speaker 1: year to plan? It didn't have something go wrong. It
24:57
Speaker 1: may be a little thing, it may not be a
24:59
Speaker 1: big thing, not even be something your guest notice, but
25:02
Speaker 1: you knew it. I don't know. I planned mine in
25:05
Speaker 1: four days and I thought it went perfectly. I know.
25:07
Speaker 1: And that's why the caveat it was a year. The couples,
25:11
Speaker 1: if you do something quick, there's not as much as
25:14
Speaker 1: it can go wrong and you don't have the expectation.
25:16
Speaker 1: But if you plan for a year and you got
25:18
Speaker 1: doves and rose pedals and you know all that carrying on,
25:23
Speaker 1: something's gonna happen. The cake's gonna get knocked over. It's
25:26
Speaker 1: gonna rain, one of your bridesmaids gets the flue, you
25:29
Speaker 1: forgot the rings. There's going to be something. I'm just
25:32
Speaker 1: telling you. The more you plan, the more that you're
25:35
Speaker 1: gonna notice didn't go like you thought it was going to.
25:39
Speaker 1: And that's a happy thing. If you're planning a sinister,
25:44
Speaker 1: evil thing, there's a whole lot more that can go wrong.
25:47
Speaker 1: And this child, to me, does not look like he
25:50
Speaker 1: planning very well at all. I think he planned a lot,
25:53
Speaker 1: but he didn't do a good job of it. Now,
25:55
Speaker 1: what do you make of the fact that he may
25:57
Speaker 1: have been in contact, or trying to contact, act or
26:00
Speaker 1: obsessed with in some way one of these girls as
26:03
Speaker 1: far back as twenty twenty one, because you know, search
26:06
Speaker 1: warrants were delivered to Google, to Mata, insta Facebook tender,
26:15
Speaker 1: the local bank of course, VZW, and AT and T.
26:21
Speaker 1: They did a data dump from the cell phone tower
26:24
Speaker 1: of all the phones that have been used for about
26:27
Speaker 1: a half a mile around the hours surrounding the time
26:32
Speaker 1: of the murders. I mean, they have really gone on
26:35
Speaker 1: all out regarding forensic data as it relates to technical
26:41
Speaker 1: information like phone records, computer records. They're even trying to
26:46
Speaker 1: match up. I believe credit card in bank card transactions
26:51
Speaker 1: that may overlap with coburgers. Were they at the same restaurant?
26:55
Speaker 1: Did he follow them there? Did he watch them at
26:58
Speaker 1: the Mad Greek or wherever they were? There's gonna be
27:01
Speaker 1: a lot more datas Cheryl McCullum. Oh, it's gonna come out.
27:05
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, it's gonna blow your mind because this
27:07
Speaker 1: is what they also are going to know. It doesn't
27:10
Speaker 1: It would not in any way surprise you and I
27:14
Speaker 1: how long he had been obsessed with them. I mean,
27:17
Speaker 1: that's something you and I talked about days two. Did
27:20
Speaker 1: That's a great possibility because you're talking about a generation
27:25
Speaker 1: that lived their life in real time. All this class
27:29
Speaker 1: up ten twenty in the morning. You know where she
27:32
Speaker 1: is at ten twenty in the morning. You know they're
27:34
Speaker 1: having a party. You know that their sorority is having
27:37
Speaker 1: a formal, you know where the former is. They're posting
27:40
Speaker 1: pictures in twenty minutes. So these are not people that
27:44
Speaker 1: are hiding. His access to them was easy. He didn't
27:48
Speaker 1: even have to be a good sulker. They're making it easy.
27:52
Speaker 1: So again, it would not surprise me. And this is
27:55
Speaker 1: something that you know again. We said on your show repeatedly,
27:59
Speaker 1: they need to look at when he decided to go
28:02
Speaker 1: to school where he did for his PXD, because you know,
28:06
Speaker 1: he could have gotten in at DePaul. He had already
28:08
Speaker 1: gotten his master's there, of cool, but he didn't absolutely
28:11
Speaker 1: and he already knew the instructors, and he already had
28:13
Speaker 1: a close relationship, which is only going to make your
28:16
Speaker 1: work easier. But no, he didn't want to do that.
28:19
Speaker 1: He went and I want to know how many playss
28:21
Speaker 1: he applied to. I bet it ain't but one or two.
28:24
Speaker 1: I'm telling you he was ready to go there because
28:27
Speaker 1: he almost started stalking them immediately. He was at their home,
28:31
Speaker 1: he was at the restaurant, he was on that main drag.
28:34
Speaker 1: We know it right now. We know that some sort
28:37
Speaker 1: of ID driver's license, credit cards did an ID library card,
28:42
Speaker 1: could be anything belonging to one other victims we believe
28:46
Speaker 1: found hidden inside of gloves inside of a box, either
28:51
Speaker 1: in Coburger's in Luntra or in co Burger's family's home
28:57
Speaker 1: in the Poconos. We wait as the evidence and falls.
29:02
Speaker 1: Good Bye, everybody,