Latest / Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers / 188: Choosing Joy: How Intention, Presence, and Gratitude Transform Your Life with Natalie King

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188: Choosing Joy: How Intention, Presence, and Gratitude Transform Your Life with Natalie King · Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers

• 0:21
  Well, hello and welcome back.
• 0:22
  My name is MaryAnn\ Walker and I'm the life coach that helps highly sensitive people learn how to set boundaries, take up space, and just experience more joy in their day-to-day life.
• 0:31
  And because of that, I am so excited to introduce to you today Natalie King.
• 0:36
  Natalie King is a British transformational coach, speaker, and podcast host that is dedicated to helping women embrace their authenticity and step more fully into their one precious life.
• 0:46
  And in fact, that is the title of her podcast, one Precious Life.
• 0:49
  I've thoroughly enjoyed both her podcast and her social media.
• 0:51
  So.
• 0:52
  Come and check her out.
• 0:53
  But today we're talking about how to experience more joy, especially when life is hard, especially when so much is going on in the world.
• 1:01
  It was very interesting, as she and I were chatting, she shared that allowing yourself to experience more joy is actually one of the top five regrets of the dying.
• 1:09
  So I know that this is a very important topic to be discussing right now.
• 1:13
  It's especially timely with it being around the holidays and Thanksgiving here in the States.
• 1:18
  So I just am so grateful for Natalie for this conversation, and I hope that you enjoy.
• 1:23
  MaryAnn Walker: I am so excited for this conversation today, Natalie, thank you so much for agreeing to collaborate with me.
• 1:29
  Natalie King: Oh, it's my pleasure.
• 1:31
  Natalie King: And thank you for agreeing too because all day to day.
• 1:33
  Natalie King: I've known that this is where my diary is, like a highlight.
• 1:36
  Natalie King: I've been really looking forward to this conversation about joy.
• 1:39
  Natalie King: I think we're gonna inspire each other and inspire our audiences too.
• 1:43
  MaryAnn Walker: I think so too.
• 1:44
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 1:44
  MaryAnn Walker: And I thought a really fun place to start would be just kind of exploring when is the last time that you experienced joy and what was that like for you?
• 1:52
  MaryAnn Walker: So yeah, go ahead and share Will ya.
• 1:54
  Natalie King: I think that's a lovely place to start and I can literally signpost a moment of joy this morning.
• 2:02
  Natalie King: I try and get out in nature every day.
• 2:05
  Natalie King: Nature's one of my kind of environments where I remember to wake up and just be immersed in the sensory experience of it.
• 2:14
  Natalie King: And, we were do walking my dog Bella.
• 2:17
  Natalie King: And it's near Remembrance Sunday, so certainly in the UKs we go around wearing our, our poppies, um, and we have a little poppy for Bella and she's like running around all playful.
• 2:27
  Natalie King: Um, and she just looked very smart with her poppy.
• 2:30
  Natalie King: And I dunno, there was something about the playfulness of it and, uh, it's a lovely autumnal day.
• 2:36
  Natalie King: The colors are lovely.
• 2:39
  Natalie King: Um, you know, our hour fall].
• 2:41
  Natalie King: Um, yeah.
• 2:42
  Natalie King: And it was just, yeah, it, it really filled me with a moment of just joy.
• 2:48
  Natalie King: Yeah.
• 2:49
  Natalie King: What about you?
• 2:50
  MaryAnn Walker: I love that.
• 2:51
  MaryAnn Walker: Yep.
• 2:51
  MaryAnn Walker: I'm the same way.
• 2:52
  MaryAnn Walker: I just find so much joy in animals and in nature, and as I was thinking about the last time I experienced joy, I was just taking out the trash this morning and it just was unseasonably warm and the colors are so bright.
• 3:04
  MaryAnn Walker: My backyard is completely covered in yellow maple leaves and it just felt so good.
• 3:10
  MaryAnn Walker: I was planning on, in preparation for this, spending some time indoors and meditating, and I was like, no, I'm gonna do a walking meditation because it's just so glorious outside.
• 3:19
  MaryAnn Walker: So I love that we both kind of find joy in the nature element.
• 3:23
  Natalie King: Oh, and then kind of leads into our first thing that we said we were gonna like really lean into is the noticing of the joy, catching joy when we experiencing it, but also intentionally, making a conscious choice that's important in our life.
• 3:40
  Natalie King: 'Cause I don't think I always caught the joy as readily as I do now, and I'm still a work in progress as we all are.
• 3:48
  Natalie King: But when we have more of a, I guess, a.
• 3:54
  Natalie King: Knowing that it's not indulgent, knowing that, it's, it's a crucial part of life for our wellbeing.
• 4:03
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 4:04
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 4:04
  MaryAnn Walker: I love how you refer to it as catching joy, where it's like, oh, I got some.
• 4:09
  MaryAnn Walker: Oh, this is so beautiful.
• 4:10
  MaryAnn Walker: Right.
• 4:10
  MaryAnn Walker: And, and it's like catching butterflies, like you're going out with the intention and, and you're just so excited to see what you're going to get.
• 4:17
  MaryAnn Walker: And I love that idea and the intention behind it.
• 4:21
  MaryAnn Walker: And I, I think this is an especially crucial conversation to be having right now.
• 4:26
  MaryAnn Walker: Because as I've been coaching with people and talking with people, you know, just this morning I saw somebody's Facebook post where they said, I feel almost ashamed to share how beautiful of an experience I had on my hike this morning because I know that so many are having a hard time.
• 4:41
  MaryAnn Walker: I'm feeling guilty for experiencing joy.
• 4:44
  MaryAnn Walker: And I think so often we tend to minimize it even in little ways.
• 4:48
  MaryAnn Walker: Like somebody gives you a compliment like, oh, I love your haircut.
• 4:51
  MaryAnn Walker: Well, you know, I had to get it cut like this because they really messed it up the last time.
• 4:55
  MaryAnn Walker: Instead of just saying thank you, that means so much to me.
• 4:59
  MaryAnn Walker: But finding those little ways to really allow yourself to fully embrace joy, I think can have such a significant impact.
• 5:07
  Natalie King: Yes, and I think what you speak to is re really recognizing, catching ourselves if we start to diminish our sharing of our joy and our light, because we might thinking, well, it'll make someone else uncomfortable, but actually the the highest service we can do is to shine and demonstrate, that joy.
• 5:34
  Natalie King: Because if we share how we've experienced it or, or, or just.
• 5:40
  Natalie King: Just to be in that aura, then it has a ripple effect.
• 5:45
  Natalie King: It is permission giving for other people.
• 5:49
  Natalie King: And yes, there is heaviness, but we can also change the radio station.
• 5:56
  Natalie King: And in the simplest things see that there's also always moments to see the beauty in it.
• 6:05
  Natalie King: But yeah, we can get in habits of minimizing the value of that joy or experiencing it and then somehow thinking we ought to be using our time more wisely.
• 6:20
  Natalie King: You know, we have this productivity bias, and I've done it myself.
• 6:24
  Natalie King: I've been in a moment of like, you know, just enjoying sitting with the book or something, and then all of a sudden I think I need to be doing something more important, whatever important might be.
• 6:34
  Natalie King: So sometimes it's almost like our nervous system we have to train it to be more familiar in the okayness of the joy because society or habits might pull us in a different direction.
• 6:51
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why I was so excited to collaborate on this specific subject with you, because as I've watched your feed, so you did a reel recently where you were playing in the leaves and taking pictures, and I found myself grinning from ear to ear.
• 7:09
  MaryAnn Walker: I did not realize how much I needed to see joy and playfulness and levity until I noticed my own reaction to that.
• 7:19
  MaryAnn Walker: And so I love how you're talking about, no, like we're doing the world a disservice if we're muting that because.
• 7:24
  MaryAnn Walker: People are attracted to that.
• 7:26
  MaryAnn Walker: People need that.
• 7:27
  MaryAnn Walker: It's what makes it more sustainable for our nervous system is injecting these moments of joy, right?
• 7:33
  MaryAnn Walker: It's like inoculating ourselves against all of the hard things that we're seeing in life when we can just be like, okay, how am I going to get my daily dose and where might I go for that?
• 7:44
  Natalie King: Yes.
• 7:45
  Natalie King: Like really building it into an important factor of your thriving and your success.
• 7:53
  Natalie King: I love that you spotted that, that reel and it was, it really was a joyful day.
• 7:59
  Natalie King: It was a photo shoot I had and there was like, you know, all, all these leaves and it was playful and there's something we forget, we.
• 8:07
  Natalie King: We forget to be playful.
• 8:08
  Natalie King: I forget to be playful.
• 8:10
  Natalie King: 'Cause life can feel very serious.
• 8:12
  Natalie King: And yes, there are challenges and I'm not dismissing, devaluing any of, the challenge and the heaviness the people might be experiencing in the collective experience right now.
• 8:26
  Natalie King: And, it's like the small things.
• 8:27
  Natalie King: It's like, well, coming back to the small things we were saying, you know, there's the scope to find it in the small accessible things.
• 8:35
  Natalie King: And like, just like you said, how that impacted you and made you question and just think, ah, I need some of that.
• 8:42
  Natalie King: And I hope that this conversation will inspire people to also get some of that for themselves and also recognize its importance.
• 8:52
  MaryAnn Walker: Absolutely, and I think it all starts with just allowing ourselves to experience it, giving ourselves that permission.
• 8:59
  MaryAnn Walker: I think too often we think, no, it's too childish to crunch the leaves or no, that would be silly to go and do that or to, go be playful with my pet in the park, and what are people going to think if I'm being silly?
• 9:12
  MaryAnn Walker: We suppress so much of it, but if we just allow ourselves to enjoy.
• 9:18
  MaryAnn Walker: It was interesting.
• 9:19
  MaryAnn Walker: I was talking with my daughter who recently went to a big Halloween party, and it was interesting for her to compare and contrast that she just decided to show up and have a good time and to not worry about what people would think if she got in the middle of the dance floor and started busting a move.
• 9:34
  MaryAnn Walker: And it was interesting for her to notice that, oh, and those people over there, they're just sitting there.
• 9:40
  MaryAnn Walker: And she recognized that, oh, I'm so grateful that I'm here in this moment that i'm not worried about that, that I'm giving myself permission to enjoy myself, and it was just such an interesting visual contrast there.
• 9:53
  MaryAnn Walker: And you had actually told me something when we first started talking about collaborating that I'm hoping that you'll share, but you had talked about the regrets of the dying.
• 10:02
  MaryAnn Walker: Will you share a little bit about
• 10:03
  Natalie King: Yes.
• 10:04
  Natalie King: So, um, someone amazing called Bonnie Ware.
• 10:08
  Natalie King: She, was Australian, is an Australian, writer, author, but she spent quite a bit of time with people in a hospice in their end of life care.
• 10:20
  Natalie King: During this time she did numerous, hundreds of interviews with, patients in their final days and it was just conversations over, over a cuppa, to sort of explore all the things about their life and what they were proud of, but also specifically regrets.
• 10:43
  Natalie King: And a huge piece of research was done off the back of this, and it's culminated in a book called The Five Regrets of the Dying.
• 10:52
  Natalie King: But number five on that list was that I wish I'd let myself be happier.
• 11:02
  Natalie King: Number one was, I wish I'd been more true to myself.
• 11:06
  Natalie King: I mean, you could spend, we could spend, if we could, I mean, I'm getting ideas about doing a whole series on, on all the five, but there's something around this.
• 11:15
  Natalie King: I, I wish I'd let myself be happier.
• 11:18
  Natalie King: And it speaks to this permission giving that you have just mentioned, giving ourselves permission just like your daughter was, dance like no one was watching just for her enjoyment, and not snap herself off from that joy and, oh, you must be so proud of your lovely daughter at a young age.
• 11:44
  Natalie King: Choosing when it's so, there's so much pressure of, mm-hmm.
• 11:48
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 11:49
  Natalie King: How to be seen, uh, and, and to sort of, to notice the choices available.
• 11:56
  Natalie King: 'cause this is about choice, isn't it?
• 11:59
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 12:00
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 12:00
  MaryAnn Walker: And choosing into it, making it an intentional choice that, how is it that I wanna show up today?
• 12:05
  MaryAnn Walker: I had heard something recently where somebody was talking about the difference between a mood and a temperament, and they said that a temperament is simply a mood that you've chosen to practice enough, that it becomes a part of you.
• 12:21
  MaryAnn Walker: Isn't that beautiful, especially as it applies to joy
• 12:25
  Natalie King: Yes.
• 12:25
  MaryAnn Walker: that you can choose into joy, and once you do it enough times, it becomes a part of who you are and how you show up in the world.
• 12:33
  Natalie King: Oh, I love that.
• 12:37
  Natalie King: I love that because we are what we repeatedly do.
• 12:42
  Natalie King: We are not predisposed, I don't believe to any one way of being, but we will be how we continually show up in our being and whatever habits we daily do or do not do.
• 13:00
  Natalie King: We will create like grooves in our neural pathways of some things that feel easier and some things that feel less easy, and the things that have been hard worn over time will just feel super familiar, even if they don't necessarily deliver the most joy.
• 13:18
  Natalie King: And so there really is something about what you are saying is the intention and the practicing and knowing that the more we do something, the more we can craft that groove, I suppose, and make it part of our temperament.
• 13:33
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:34
  MaryAnn Walker: And it's not so much, I think sometimes we shame joy because we have this, you know.
• 13:39
  MaryAnn Walker: This or that mentality, and we think, well, I can't be joyful because there's hard things happening, but to step into, no, this and this, that I can experience so much joy going and walking through the leaves and enjoying all of the beautiful colors.
• 13:55
  MaryAnn Walker: And there can still be hard things in the world.
• 13:57
  MaryAnn Walker: It doesn't mean that that those things are diminished.
• 13:59
  MaryAnn Walker: It's no, I'm going to fully embrace all of it.
• 14:02
  MaryAnn Walker: I'm not going to shame my joy because there's hard things happening.
• 14:05
  MaryAnn Walker: I'm going to choose intentionally to practice finding those joyful moments, even when it's hard because I know that that's what's going to help me to have that resilience through the hard times as well.
• 14:16
  Natalie King: Yes.
• 14:17
  Natalie King: And this piece around levity within that, it, it's really healthy for us.
• 14:24
  Natalie King: Laughter it's proven scientifically is really good for us.
• 14:29
  Natalie King: Not to mention our whole other, you know, things and I'm sure as we we go on, we'll kind of add to our, our list.
• 14:36
  Natalie King: I think that's just like so powerful to remember.
• 14:40
  MaryAnn Walker: Well, and I think that what you just said about just even letting yourself laugh, it leads into the second point that we wanted to discuss.
• 14:47
  MaryAnn Walker: Creating that joy every day and that it doesn't have to, we don't have to wait for a big, grand experience, but we can find it in those little moments, like just maybe part of your practices that you do want to have like a laughing meditation where I'm just gonna laugh for 10 minutes, just see how it changes my body.
• 15:05
  Natalie King: I mean, just you even saying that's funny,
• 15:09
  MaryAnn Walker: Right?
• 15:10
  MaryAnn Walker: Like.
• 15:13
  Natalie King: but, but yes, it's contagious that that giggling, isn't it?
• 15:18
  Natalie King: And yeah, it's really good for our nervous system, like whether it's laughter or not.
• 15:23
  Natalie King: I mean, there is research about how many times a day little children laugh and it's kind of hundreds, hundreds.
• 15:31
  Natalie King: And then they do the comparative research with, with adults.
• 15:34
  Natalie King: And sadly, someone's not laughing even once in a day.
• 15:38
  MaryAnn Walker: Mm-hmm.
• 15:39
  Natalie King: But it's so important for our, our nervous system.
• 15:42
  Natalie King: So yeah, whether it's after, it's these everyday things.
• 15:45
  Natalie King: I love dancing.
• 15:47
  Natalie King: And I've started dancing more.
• 15:50
  Natalie King: I know that it's important for me.
• 15:52
  Natalie King: Part of the things that I'm really seeing as important for me this year is just coming into my body more, moving, more listening to the wisdom of my body and my body likes to dance.
• 16:04
  Natalie King: And,, I think because I wasn't going anywhere to dance, I forgot to do it.
• 16:10
  MaryAnn Walker: Hmm.
• 16:11
  Natalie King: I don't know why I just wasn't dancing around my house or just dancing because of it.
• 16:15
  Natalie King: So back to creating intentional practices to make it a habit to recognize I don't need an occasion to dance, I just can take a dance break.
• 16:26
  Natalie King: I've been doing that and I've found it so helpful, maryAnn.
• 16:31
  Natalie King: It's just such a a shift, of that attitude in a moment.
• 16:37
  Natalie King: And so literally, I mean this, you know, this won't suit everyone, but at the end of my day, I put my headphones in and I just dance around the bedroom for a couple of tunes.
• 16:47
  Natalie King: Normally something quite uplifting, and in my mind, I'm going through i'm recognizing and celebrating myself for the, acknowledging the day, because very often it gets forgotten because I go to bed and, you know, onto the next, but there's a moment of just dancing in my body and recognizing even the small things like just making dinner or taking a break with a coffee or having a conversation with a friend or finishing something at work that I'd been procrastinating and, and it's just.
• 17:16
  Natalie King: Just this moment of recognition in my body dancing and it's joyous.
• 17:20
  Natalie King: And in that moment I shift.
• 17:21
  Natalie King: And just to let you know, it's not just an end of day thing.
• 17:26
  Natalie King: There was, the other day come back from holiday and I don't know, you know, sometimes after holiday you just think, oh, I've got all this stuff to do and, and I looked at my diary for the week ahead and it looked overwhelming.
• 17:36
  Natalie King: It really wasn't as overwhelming.
• 17:38
  Natalie King: It's this week we're in now, it's not overwhelming, but you know, sometimes your perspective just reads overwhelm, even if it's not true.
• 17:46
  Natalie King: And I'd kind of got myself in a place and I didn't notice it as quick as I would've liked, but eventually I noticed, hang on a minute, I need to move.
• 17:56
  Natalie King: And I literally got myself up, put my earphones in, just did my dancing, and I felt completely different.
• 18:03
  Natalie King: And what felt overwhelming before, seemed manageable and nothing had changed with my diary.
• 18:12
  Natalie King: But the dancing and this embodiment and the seeking out a moment of joy and levity just changed the entire experience.
• 18:24
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:25
  MaryAnn Walker: It has me thinking about, you know, the emotion is energy in motion, and so whether you're trying to process a hard emotion or invite in a positive emotion, or did I say that right?
• 18:36
  MaryAnn Walker: Process a negative emotion or invite in a positive emotion, then just being mindful about how.
• 18:42
  MaryAnn Walker: Do I want to do that in my body?
• 18:43
  MaryAnn Walker: And I love that you dance and I'm thinking how much just turning on some music and dancing while you're doing the mundane can make it so much more joyful, be it making a bed or cooking or sweeping.
• 18:55
  MaryAnn Walker: And I confess that before this call then.
• 18:58
  MaryAnn Walker: I also enjoy dancing, but before this then I was jumping on my mini trampoline and getting myself hyped up and it's so amazing how just those little things, I mean I was only on there for a couple of minutes, but it helps to shift the energy.
• 19:13
  MaryAnn Walker: And when you talked about all of the things in your diary on your to-do list of what you need to do, it's so interesting'cause I noticed that for myself too, that when I'm experiencing overwhelm.
• 19:23
  MaryAnn Walker: If I can just take some time to get out into nature, to jump, to dance, to sing, to play the ukulele, to do something.
• 19:30
  MaryAnn Walker: It's so interesting how much that changes how I view my list, where my list can go from being so overwhelming to look, I only have three things I have to do today, but that the, the list hasn't changed, but my weight and my mental energy around it has.
• 19:48
  Natalie King: It is like magic.
• 19:51
  MaryAnn Walker: Mm-hmm.
• 19:51
  Natalie King: And there is a little miracle, just that the miracle of perspective,
• 19:55
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 19:56
  Natalie King: and it doesn't have to take along this joy, this levity, the getting in our body, whatever the root may be, and it's different for everyone.
• 20:03
  Natalie King: We're all different, but it doesn't have to be a holiday or a complete escape from life.
• 20:11
  Natalie King: It can just be a moment of presence.
• 20:15
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 20:16
  MaryAnn Walker: So just for fun, I'm really curious if you had to pick three things.
• 20:20
  MaryAnn Walker: You've already talked about dancing, so it's okay if you wanna include that.
• 20:22
  MaryAnn Walker: But what three things do you find you can really rely on and turn to in your day-to-day life that really help you to shift that energy into that joy?
• 20:33
  Natalie King: So, um, I have to include nature and I know I referred to it before, um, but there's something, that just helps me move into an awareness of more than myself.
• 20:46
  Natalie King: So there's moments of awe of listening, you know, to birds or, you know, so there's, there's, there's being out in nature.
• 20:53
  Natalie King: There's the dancing.
• 20:55
  Natalie King: I do also just love to sit and read,
• 20:59
  MaryAnn Walker: Hmm
• 20:59
  Natalie King: Just sit with a book to just have a, a relationship, either with a fiction or nonfiction, something very often it's something inspiring
• 21:07
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah,
• 21:09
  Natalie King: and good coffee.
• 21:10
  MaryAnn Walker: yeah, yeah.
• 21:12
  MaryAnn Walker: It's really those little things, right?
• 21:14
  MaryAnn Walker: It's just.
• 21:15
  MaryAnn Walker: So wonderful to just even take the time to just think on what does bring me joy, and then let yourself thoroughly enjoy it.
• 21:21
  MaryAnn Walker: Right?
• 21:21
  MaryAnn Walker: Because it's gonna be a very different experience, like with your cup of coffee if you're just drinking it quick to just get on with your day versus this is my joyful moment and I'm going to really give myself permission to enjoy it.
• 21:34
  MaryAnn Walker: Even that can create such a shift.
• 21:36
  Natalie King: Yes.
• 21:37
  Natalie King: And you know, yes, of course I could say big holidays and spa days and yes to all of that and bubble baths.
• 21:44
  Natalie King: But, my go-tos were actually the smaller things.
• 21:49
  Natalie King: What, what about you?
• 21:51
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, well, very similar to you.
• 21:53
  MaryAnn Walker: I think that we're very similar.
• 21:54
  MaryAnn Walker: It's probably why we're doing this together'cause we just resonate.
• 21:57
  MaryAnn Walker: But yeah, for me it's that I know that I need to take some time to even just to sit and to breathe.
• 22:03
  MaryAnn Walker: I enjoy being in nature.
• 22:06
  MaryAnn Walker: Setting a cozy fire.
• 22:07
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, like you said, even delicious food can be fun or intentionally starting a conversation with a friend, like, oh, who can I talk to today?
• 22:16
  MaryAnn Walker: I've noticed that there's some people where I just wanna talk to'em because I just feel so much better once the conversation is done, we just resonate.
• 22:24
  MaryAnn Walker: And so it is kind of amazing to just think about those little things.
• 22:28
  MaryAnn Walker: Make a list.
• 22:29
  MaryAnn Walker: Your go-to list.
• 22:30
  MaryAnn Walker: So then when you are having a hard time reminding yourself that yes, that and this, look at my list of all of these amazing things that I could participate in.
• 22:40
  MaryAnn Walker: Sometimes it's interesting too for me to even think, okay, well I could take a 30 minute walk in nature, or I just turn on, like you had talked about, i'm gonna listen to one of my favorite songs on my playlist and dance for just one song.
• 22:52
  MaryAnn Walker: It's not gonna take a lot outta my day.
• 22:54
  MaryAnn Walker: I could do it on my lunch break, but that those little things can have such a significant impact, is just really it.
• 23:01
  MaryAnn Walker: It's inspiring for me to just really think that, wow, I cannot believe that that five minute song had such a big shift on how it is that I'm showing up and how I'm feeling.
• 23:10
  Natalie King: Yeah, and, and it can feel like magic just because it's like, oh my God, I was like this.
• 23:15
  Natalie King: And now I'm like, you know, the whole experience has shifted.
• 23:20
  Natalie King: And I have in my mind.
• 23:22
  Natalie King: I used to have it written down, but now I kind of, after practicing it for, it's very, it's very clear my thing's on my love list.
• 23:28
  Natalie King: I call it my love list.
• 23:30
  Natalie King: But yeah, if anyone listening has not yet got their own love list, it really merits just spending a bit of time leaning in to the things that you can access in your day to help bring you joy and inter disperse intentionally and deliberately, more moments To allow this to be part of your day, and if we really lean into a question like, what does a successful life feel like to you, a meaningful life, feel like to you when we are not talking about the numbers, uh, or linear or, you know, anything like that, if we are talking about the language of the heart, well, Joy's gonna be in there
• 24:16
  MaryAnn Walker: Mm-hmm.
• 24:17
  Natalie King: and let's not leave it too late to unlock that.
• 24:22
  Natalie King: That vital part of what it is to be human and connect to that as our birthright.
• 24:32
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, I think it's beautiful that you call it your love list because it is an act of self-love to allow yourself to experience that joy, to even just pick one thing off of your love list, even if you're only able to do one thing in a day, to pick one thing and see if it makes a difference for you.
• 24:48
  MaryAnn Walker: See if it impacts your mood, and then notice how practicing that can impact how it is that you show up generally in the world.
• 24:56
  MaryAnn Walker: But it starts with identifying those things for yourself and identifying.
• 25:00
  MaryAnn Walker: I think also it's helpful to notice in the body that, wow, how does this feel?
• 25:05
  MaryAnn Walker: Ooh, this feels pretty good.
• 25:06
  MaryAnn Walker: I'm gonna let myself feel this a little bit more.
• 25:08
  MaryAnn Walker: This feels so amazing, but becoming more familiar with the emotion of joy making it your friend, somebody that's familiar to you.
• 25:18
  Natalie King: Yes.
• 25:18
  Natalie King: And um, just to add to that, you know, if it's not something you are regularly leaning into almost anticipate that the unfamiliar, your nervous system might wanna get you out there because we need to let our bodies, our nervous systems, know that it's safe, it's safe to participate in this.
• 25:38
  Natalie King: It's actually a great thing and good for me.
• 25:41
  Natalie King: But if we are not in the habit or if we have like a, a productivity bias, we thought, oh no, I haven't got time for that.
• 25:47
  Natalie King: We can kind of dismiss and, and knock it off the list.
• 25:52
  Natalie King: So, yeah, even if it feels a little bit un blissful, but also uncomfortable, like, stay with it.
• 25:56
  Natalie King: It's all, it's all good.
• 25:58
  Natalie King: It's all in the service of your highest.
• 26:01
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, I'm so grateful that you pointed that out because it can be a little uncomfortable in the beginning, especially if it's something that you haven't practiced.
• 26:08
  MaryAnn Walker: If it's unfamiliar to you, like dancing, like nobody's watching, it's gonna feel uncomfortable, and then you might notice that as you practice it, other people will be inspired.
• 26:17
  MaryAnn Walker: Other people will want to come and join you on the dance floor.
• 26:20
  MaryAnn Walker: It is a little uncomfortable when it isn't something that you practice, but being willing to be a little bit uncomfortable as you work to cultivate that.
• 26:28
  MaryAnn Walker: 'cause you're right, it is this and that.
• 26:30
  MaryAnn Walker: Even as you're cultivating joy, it's, it's gonna be a little uncomfortable and it's worth it to me to practice that joy.
• 26:36
  MaryAnn Walker: So I'm so glad that you brought that up.
• 26:38
  Natalie King: Oh, and it's that, and again, isn't it?
• 26:40
  Natalie King: It's all things, it's all good.
• 26:43
  Natalie King: Um, oh, I'm just like loving all, all these things and I just wanted to also catch something that came to mind about, you know, this piece leaning into self love, it's really self honoring.
• 26:58
  Natalie King: You know, noticing the importance of your joy and giving it value.
• 27:04
  Natalie King: And I really see this link building for me, the more I honor myself and listen to what's important and safeguard some time for it.
• 27:15
  Natalie King: And it doesn't need to be long time, but I, I feel that it then builds myself trust.
• 27:22
  Natalie King: It builds my self-worth because I'm not abandoning myself, I'm choosing me, but it in that resilience building and that self-honoring, I'm able to contribute more.
• 27:37
  Natalie King: It doesn't take me away from this piece around productivity.
• 27:41
  Natalie King: You know, if someone's thinking, well, I haven't got time for that, it's actually nurturing us such that we can come to our lives more powerfully
• 27:54
  MaryAnn Walker: Hmm.
• 27:55
  MaryAnn Walker: That is beautiful.
• 27:56
  MaryAnn Walker: Oh my goodness.
• 27:58
  MaryAnn Walker: And I love how you said, if you value it.
• 28:01
  MaryAnn Walker: Then you'll prioritize it, right?
• 28:02
  MaryAnn Walker: If you value it, if you actually value experiencing joy, why not invest in it and cultivate more of it?
• 28:09
  MaryAnn Walker: And it was beautiful to me too, how you said no.
• 28:12
  MaryAnn Walker: That's what's self-honoring about it.
• 28:14
  MaryAnn Walker: I hadn't ever considered that before, that not allowing myself to experience joy was actually devaluing self because it's not self-nurturing to mute that, but to nourish yourself with joy is self-honoring.
• 28:27
  MaryAnn Walker: That was just beautifully said.
• 28:28
  MaryAnn Walker: Thank you for that.
• 28:30
  Natalie King: and anything that isn't self-honoring is in the direction of self abandonment.
• 28:35
  MaryAnn Walker: Hmm.
• 28:36
  Natalie King: Um, yeah.
• 28:39
  MaryAnn Walker: So
• 28:39
  Natalie King: mean, what a world if we had more people stepping into their fullest, their highest, their most joyful self, and you know, we, if we show up to life with more joy in our hearts, we send ripple effects of more peace and compassion and understanding.
• 28:58
  Natalie King: It's in the direction of creating better worlds, isn't it?
• 29:02
  MaryAnn Walker: Hmm.
• 29:03
  MaryAnn Walker: So true.
• 29:04
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, and I think that with the idea of creating a better world, I wanna lead into our third point that we wanted to talk about, which is kind of the correlation between joy and gratitude.
• 29:14
  MaryAnn Walker: I.
• 29:15
  MaryAnn Walker: So, yeah, tell me a bit about how gratitude has shifted things for you, and I'm curious about how gratitude maybe also plays into your love list.
• 29:22
  MaryAnn Walker: 'cause when I kind of think of gratitudes as a love list as well.
• 29:26
  Natalie King: Yes.
• 29:27
  Natalie King: And um, I hadn't thought about my love list as gratitudes, but actually, if you think about all the things that I mentioned on my list, it's moments where I come back to the present moment and in the present moment.
• 29:40
  Natalie King: there is a greater appreciation.
• 29:43
  Natalie King: And I think the sacred, the beauty it's in it's in everything, isn't it?
• 29:51
  Natalie King: And, we can't be in gratitude and appreciation and also be in anger or overwhelm.
• 30:00
  Natalie King: It's not possible.
• 30:03
  Natalie King: When you are in gratitude.
• 30:05
  Natalie King: It is like a doorway to a higher level experience.
• 30:11
  Natalie King: It shifts our perspective, and even in difficult things like heartbreak or grief, we can find gratitude for the love that may be existed.
• 30:26
  Natalie King: Also the learning, even if it's hard, that we are wiser as a result.
• 30:32
  Natalie King: And sometimes when things are raw, we might not see it immediately, but even in the most difficult of scenarios, we can find gratitude.
• 30:41
  Natalie King: And in the every day, in the mundane, in the sweeping the leaves or the, or the looking up at the sun and feeling it on your face.
• 30:52
  Natalie King: Um.
• 30:55
  Natalie King: Yeah.
• 30:55
  Natalie King: What about you?
• 30:57
  MaryAnn Walker: I don't know if I can top what you said.
• 30:58
  MaryAnn Walker: That was beautiful.
• 31:00
  MaryAnn Walker: No, no.
• 31:02
  MaryAnn Walker: It is interesting for me to think about though the things that I, that do bring me joy.
• 31:07
  MaryAnn Walker: They also do create those feelings of gratitude where it's like, oh, I'm just so grateful that I can step outside and just feel the sun on my face.
• 31:15
  MaryAnn Walker: I'm so grateful that I can see the beautiful leaves.
• 31:18
  MaryAnn Walker: I'm so grateful for these friendships that I'm cultivating for these kind of beautiful, deep, meaningful conversations.
• 31:24
  MaryAnn Walker: The, the things that the soul yearns for that.
• 31:29
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, it brings me joy and I think that they're very much correlated that they bring me joy because they're things that I am just so grateful to have and actually placing that value in, I'm going to intentionally express gratitude and what's gonna happen when you're expressing gratitude, you're going to be experiencing joy and you're going to be spreading joy.
• 31:50
  MaryAnn Walker: And I think that they're just so tightly bound, that the more we cultivate one, the other can't help but come along.
• 31:57
  Natalie King: Yes, and it's like then the snowball effect, isn't it?
• 32:04
  Natalie King: Because there is momentum.
• 32:08
  Natalie King: We might forget, because we all do, we get engrossed in something and other things appear urgent.
• 32:14
  Natalie King: But the more we're doing it as a practice and creating some more momentum and permission giving and leaning into our love list.
• 32:22
  Natalie King: Then we catch ourselves quicker when we go off track.
• 32:26
  Natalie King: Just like I caught myself the other day when things were overwhelming and, and don't get me wrong, like I teach this stuff and I still get lost.
• 32:35
  Natalie King: You know, and I, no doubt you do, because we all works in progress.
• 32:39
  Natalie King: But what I find is the more we lean into this and discover this for ourselves and go on this journey, that we are just quicker, quicker to, quicker to spot.
• 32:49
  Natalie King: Um, when we go off track, get a little bit more savvy to question the thinking that might have us do something different apart from laugh at ourselves.
• 33:01
  Natalie King: So there's a elevated discernment I think that comes when we.
• 33:06
  Natalie King: Start the, snowball of joy and gratitude and, and even my, like, dancing in the evening when I'm enjoying that, I'm, I'm being grateful for the day.
• 33:16
  Natalie King: It's like the other side of the coin.
• 33:20
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 33:21
  MaryAnn Walker: Well, and it has me thinking how much gratitude really can be a bridge towards joy.
• 33:25
  MaryAnn Walker: That if someone is in a place right now where they're having a really hard time even remembering what joy feels like.
• 33:31
  MaryAnn Walker: They're wondering, okay, well I don't even know what brings me joy anymore.
• 33:35
  MaryAnn Walker: Then taking that time to think about and what am I grateful for, I think can be such a beautiful bridge and connecting point to be able to access joy again.
• 33:45
  MaryAnn Walker: To just be thinking about, yeah, okay.
• 33:47
  MaryAnn Walker: What things am I grateful for in my day-to-day life?
• 33:50
  MaryAnn Walker: Can yeah, shift that energy?
• 33:53
  Natalie King: I love that and also in saying that it really,.
• 33:58
  Natalie King: It's the point about it not being in a doing,'cause some of the examples we've talked about could have us thinking that joy is in the doing.
• 34:07
  Natalie King: But actually it's found in that presence, the present moment awareness.
• 34:12
  Natalie King: And that's the thing that gratitude does because it opens a will window for us to experience awe and appreciation, which by its very nature it gets us in with that, now, um, and yeah, that's what came up to me when you, when you said, I thought, ah, yes.
• 34:27
  Natalie King: Yeah.
• 34:27
  Natalie King: It's in the, it's in the who we be.
• 34:29
  Natalie King: And if we can cultivate more of that gratitude, we can start to connect, reconnect, if we haven't connected for a while with the part that we all have, you know, everyone has access to this.
• 34:43
  Natalie King: It's not, it's not only for the few.
• 34:45
  Natalie King: We all as our birthright can, we just need to listen a bit.
• 34:51
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, I love that differentiation of the doing versus the being.
• 34:54
  MaryAnn Walker: But yes, joy can be something that you do and actively cultivate.
• 34:58
  MaryAnn Walker: And it's an emotion that we can learn and become more familiar with and just be.
• 35:03
  MaryAnn Walker: Like, what would it look like to just be in joy, to embody joy and you don't even have to do anything.
• 35:09
  MaryAnn Walker: I mean, we all know those people that just seem like walking sunshine and it's like, how do they do that?
• 35:15
  MaryAnn Walker: And they're not even doing anything.
• 35:16
  MaryAnn Walker: They're just grocery shopping.
• 35:18
  MaryAnn Walker: But it's like, wow, they're amazing.
• 35:20
  MaryAnn Walker: And it's like, yeah, it's because they have become the embodiment of joy.
• 35:26
  Natalie King: It's back to the temperament, isn't it?
• 35:28
  Natalie King: What you were saying And um, as you were saying about, those individuals, they like the sunshine.
• 35:34
  Natalie King: And um, now I dunno whether this is myth or not, but I read that sunflowers follow the sun.
• 35:40
  Natalie King: So, you know, they move over the day, the sun, they're following the sun because the sun is what nourishes them and they're putting their attention on the thing that helps them thrive.
• 35:50
  Natalie King: And I guess what we are pointing to here is inviting people to put their attention on this, self nourishing piece that is completely linked to our highest wellbeing and thriving.
• 36:07
  Natalie King: So yeah, like the sunflower, let's just put our attention, on that, which brings us more sun.
• 36:13
  Natalie King: And, and you know, the clouds come by as well, but the sun hasn't disappeared.
• 36:18
  Natalie King: It's still there.
• 36:19
  Natalie King: So there's still a knowing it'll come back.
• 36:22
  Natalie King: And in the meantime I'll just look after myself while I'm waiting to the clouds to, you know, or the storm to pass.
• 36:30
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 36:31
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 36:32
  MaryAnn Walker: So I used to live in Kansas, which is known as the Sunflower State, so that's a hundred percent true.
• 36:37
  MaryAnn Walker: They do follow the sun.
• 36:38
  Natalie King: That's amazing.
• 36:41
  MaryAnn Walker: It is true.
• 36:42
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 36:42
  MaryAnn Walker: And, and I love that visual too, of all these things are happening in the world and I'm gonna choose to focus on this.
• 36:50
  MaryAnn Walker: Like, it reinforces that visual helps to reinforce the idea of how much intention can impact us.
• 36:56
  MaryAnn Walker: And, and I was thinking too about, you know, the clouds and the storms and sometimes they come and like you mentioned, we can learn from them, we can grow from them.
• 37:06
  MaryAnn Walker: Like maybe that's exactly what's watering us.
• 37:09
  MaryAnn Walker: Even though it may be really uncomfortable in the moment that even those hard things can, we can find joy and gratitude in them as we look for the lessons, as we appreciate that my grief is so deep because my love was so deep and looking for those things, trying to, to find that silver lining.
• 37:29
  Natalie King: Oh, that's so, that is so beautifully put.
• 37:34
  Natalie King: Well, I can't say anything to top that.
• 37:36
  Natalie King: But, um,'cause I think that feels like a beautiful place to kind of,, bookmark this beautiful conversation.
• 37:43
  Natalie King: And I have to say, I've had goosebumps pretty much through the whole conversation, which is my sign, my little sign to me that I'm doing the thing that feels most aligned and true and joyous.
• 37:55
  Natalie King: So, I dunno when anyone else gets that.
• 37:57
  Natalie King: I think I, I rather like, it's not the cold, it genuinely is.
• 38:00
  Natalie King: It's sort of like, ah, this is, this is my soul's loving this.
• 38:05
  Natalie King: Um.
• 38:05
  MaryAnn Walker: And I love that you're so in tune that your body even feels it has a reaction to it.
• 38:11
  MaryAnn Walker: I love that.
• 38:12
  MaryAnn Walker: That's beautiful.
• 38:14
  Natalie King: So, um, MaryAnn, I, I feel that this is the first of many more conversations.
• 38:20
  Natalie King: But to kind of, wrap this one up, for any of my listeners who wanna find out more about you and your work and, yeah, say maybe a little bit about how they can find out more and get in touch with you.
• 38:34
  MaryAnn Walker: Oh, absolutely.
• 38:34
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 38:35
  MaryAnn Walker: So I also have a podcast, it's called Inner Work with MaryAnn Walker, and it's a podcast for the empaths The highly sensitive people and recovering people pleasers.
• 38:43
  MaryAnn Walker: And so I help people learn how to state boundaries, take up space, and just find more joy in their life.
• 38:50
  MaryAnn Walker: And so you can listen to my podcast or you can find me on Instagram and TikTok and facebook@MaryAnnwalker.life.
• 38:57
  MaryAnn Walker: So come and find me there.
• 38:58
  MaryAnn Walker: And how can my audience connect with you?
• 39:01
  Natalie King: Um, well, I have my own podcast.
• 39:03
  Natalie King: It's called This One Precious Life.
• 39:06
  Natalie King: And I talk about all things.
• 39:08
  Natalie King: Authenticity, wellbeing.
• 39:11
  Natalie King: But really it's very similar to you coming to life and embracing this one precious life, in a way that feels true.
• 39:19
  Natalie King: you know, bolder less stress and more joy.
• 39:23
  Natalie King: I lean into a lot about self-love and this self-honoring and how we can thrive more in our lives.
• 39:31
  Natalie King: So that's this one, precious life.
• 39:33
  Natalie King: And if any of your listeners want to, join my, the remembering, a monthly free monthly women's circle, I hold, it's called the remembering because this piece around remembering to remember being.
• 39:47
  Natalie King: Kind of we're gonna go off track, but when we come together and remember together, our power, our voice, what's important.
• 39:55
  Natalie King: So yeah, if anyone fancies a coming along to that, then my, I'm Natalie king.net, my website, I'm sure it'll be in your show notes.
• 40:04
  Natalie King: And, at this one Precious Life on Instagram.
• 40:07
  Natalie King: But yes, I'm, would love to, meet any of your community that's curious to join, join me there.
• 40:13
  Natalie King: And, and in on Joy or anything else related to our conversation or beyond.
• 40:18
  Natalie King: Is there any final words you wanted to share?
• 40:21
  Natalie King: MaryAnn?
• 40:23
  MaryAnn Walker: I just honestly want to just express gratitude to you for just being here.
• 40:27
  MaryAnn Walker: You do have that light, you do have so much sunshine energy, and so I appreciate just everything that you're putting out into the world.
• 40:34
  MaryAnn Walker: I wanna tell everybody, I will put all of her contact information in the show notes, but if you wanna catch joy and just kind of be like surprised by a joyful moment, then make sure you're following Natalie on her Instagram, because that's just the energy that she puts out.
• 40:49
  MaryAnn Walker: But being intentional, I guess that that's what I would sum up with is, is my hope is that we can all just be a little bit more intentional about finding joyful people to follow on social media.
• 40:59
  MaryAnn Walker: Finding joyful songs that lift us up and help us to dance and to feel, but to be intentional about what's one thing that I could either start doing or stop doing that could help me to experience more joy in life.
• 41:12
  MaryAnn Walker: How about you?
• 41:13
  MaryAnn Walker: Do you have any final
• 41:14
  Natalie King: Oh, well, equally to echo the, I love following you on Instagram and your podcast, so yes, for my listeners, please do check MaryAnn out.
• 41:23
  Natalie King: It's the kind of inspiring content that helps the world be a brighter, better place and for us to step more into our power.
• 41:34
  Natalie King: And I think I wanna reinforce what you've said about intention because I think that really is the key.
• 41:41
  Natalie King: Because when we put this on our radar as important, I hope that people after listening to this conversation can see, ah, it's a disservice to not go in the direction of my joy.
• 41:54
  Natalie King: We are here, we have one precious life, and part of that life is to experience and to know what brings us joy.
• 42:03
  Natalie King: It is such a worthy investment of your time, and not only that, that investment which you might feel, feels indulgent, I promise you, is not because you come to life, your joy filled life in whichever degree you find, you are able.
• 42:23
  Natalie King: To be much more of service and to shine more like the sunflower.
• 42:27
  Natalie King: So, um, yeah.
• 42:29
  Natalie King: I have loved this conversation and I hope the listeners have too.
• 42:34
  MaryAnn Walker: Yeah.
• 42:34
  MaryAnn Walker: Well thank you so much and yeah, don't let a lack of creating joy.
• 42:39
  MaryAnn Walker: Be one of your regrets at the end of life.
• 42:41
  MaryAnn Walker: You can choose into it today.
• 42:44
  Natalie King: Beautiful.
• 42:45
  MaryAnn Walker: All right, well, thank you so much for being here, everybody, and we'll see you next time.
• 42:49
  Natalie King: Take care.
• 42:49
  Natalie King: Thank you.
• 42:50
  Natalie King: Bye.