Latest / The MOOD Podcast / Photography as a Catalyst for Creative Impact and Social Change, Kevin Mirc, E063

Transcript

Photography as a Catalyst for Creative Impact and Social Change, Kevin Mirc, E063 · The MOOD Podcast

0:00
Kevin Mirc: Sometimes you don't know what's real or what's not.
0:02
Kevin Mirc: Sometimes it's a bit overwhelming social media.
0:05
Kevin Mirc: How do we make ourselves unique?
0:07
Kevin Mirc: I try to stay consistent, I guess.
0:10
Matt Jacob: How do you beat the competition?
0:11
Kevin Mirc: There's enough work for anyone.
0:13
Kevin Mirc: So instead of comparing yourself with others, maybe it's better even if you help them.
0:18
Matt Jacob: Do you have any advice or strategies that can put you in a place where you try and have a steady stream of income, have a steady stream of income or a steady stream of clients that you're working with?
0:28
Kevin Mirc: I think you need to.
0:30
Matt Jacob: That's a great tip.
0:31
Matt Jacob: What do you think the future of a photographer looks like?
0:35
Kevin Mirc: The future?
0:36
Matt Jacob: I'm not sure, but Welcome to the Mood Podcast, where each week, we bring you inspiring conversations with top artists and creative minds from various fields, exploring their personalities, purposes, processes and philosophies.
0:55
Matt Jacob: Whether you are a seasoned photographer, an aspiring artist or simply someone who just loves to learn and be inspired, this podcast is certainly for you.
1:05
Matt Jacob: I'm your host, matt Jacob, and thank you for joining me in today's conversation.
1:10
Matt Jacob: And today our guest is Kevin Mirk, a travel photographer who has captured wonderful images from some of the most incredible destinations around the world.
1:21
Matt Jacob: Kevin's work is characterized by its vibrant colors, dramatic compositions and a unique ability to evoke a sense of adventure and wonder.
1:32
Matt Jacob: In this episode, we dive into his journey as a photographer, exploring what first inspired him to pick up a camera and how the online persona of At Wondersky came to life.
1:44
Matt Jacob: Kevin shares his creative process, from scouting locations to capturing the perfect shot, and we discuss the philosophy and vision behind his work, how he uses storytelling to convey emotions and messages through his images.
1:59
Matt Jacob: We also touch on the challenges of travel photography and the industry as a whole, the evolution of his style and the impact of social media on his growth as an artist.
2:12
Matt Jacob: Kevin offers valuable advice for aspiring photographers on balancing content creation for social media, with staying true to their artistic vision.
2:21
Matt Jacob: True to their artistic vision.
2:22
Matt Jacob: Additionally, we explore Kevin's thoughts on adventure and sustainability and the responsibility that photographers might have in promoting responsible travel and conservation.
2:32
Matt Jacob: So now I bring you Kevin Mirk.
2:35
Matt Jacob: Kevin Mirk, welcome to the Moo Podcast.
2:48
Kevin Mirc: Thank you for having me.
2:53
Matt Jacob: Yeah, it's great to have you and great to have a fellow Bali resident with us.
2:56
Matt Jacob: So I wanted to start with before we kind of get on to kind of who you are and what you do.
3:00
Matt Jacob: One thing I've seen you talk about is how photography is a window to the world.
3:05
Matt Jacob: Can you explain that a little bit more in terms of your insight?
3:10
Kevin Mirc: Yeah.
3:11
Kevin Mirc: So photography window to the world, window to the soul.
3:15
Kevin Mirc: I see it like it's a way to express, to show the world to people that maybe don't, will not go places, don't travel.
3:30
Kevin Mirc: How would they know If there's no people like you or me that will?
3:35
Kevin Mirc: I guess document Photography for me is more like a documentary Show different angles, different perspectives and I see it also like a superpower, like it's time travel.
3:53
Kevin Mirc: You freeze a moment and people can see it in 200 years and then remember oh, this guy took this picture and that's what happened at this time.
4:03
Kevin Mirc: If we're not here to document, then it's almost like it never happened.
4:07
Kevin Mirc: So it's like it's a window for people pretty much.
4:12
Matt Jacob: And it's a window that is very subjective, right, it depends on your perception as a photographer and we'll talk about this a little bit later, about what makes you different and what makes photographers different from others.
4:22
Matt Jacob: But you choose to document landscape cultures.
4:28
Matt Jacob: Why are those kind of two main genres important to you in terms of your perception of the world?
4:35
Kevin Mirc: Um, I guess because it's how my journey started as a photographer.
4:41
Kevin Mirc: First with landscape, because of traveling, getting out of the comfort zone, out of the country, learn english and I guess the the more accessible first approach to photography was landscape and culture.
5:02
Kevin Mirc: I guess it comes with travel you experience different people, different way of living from other people.
5:11
Kevin Mirc: Maybe you might not understand and you want to understand, so you try to capture it, you try to get their point.
5:22
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, I guess that's it.
5:29
Matt Jacob: And we're living in a place that is full of culture and landscape, right?
5:32
Matt Jacob: Was that something that drew you to Bali initially?
5:34
Matt Jacob: I guess?
5:36
Kevin Mirc: not mainly, I guess with most of the people here, they don't know how they ended up here, so it became one of the reasons that made me stay.
5:47
Kevin Mirc: I guess maybe not the reason that made me like come here in the first place, but then discovering the island, the culture, all the variety of landscape you can get here you can get within one hour.
6:00
Kevin Mirc: You have a luxuriant jungle and then you have a freezing volcano, then you have like black sand, beach, white sand, like you can get everything here and like it's all like compact kind of so and, yeah, culture definitely is one of the main thing that made me stay.
6:20
Matt Jacob: Yeah, I think Bali is is is a microcosm of Indonesia in general in terms of the diversity that you can get here.
6:30
Matt Jacob: It has a predominant culture, but certainly the landscape is diverse.
6:36
Matt Jacob: Like you said, within an hour's scooter ride, right.
6:39
Kevin Mirc: Yeah.
6:40
Matt Jacob: You can get pretty much anything you want, apart from snow.
6:43
Matt Jacob: Yeah, not yet.
6:47
Kevin Mirc: Maybe it will come.
6:48
Kevin Mirc: Then you have Bali, but you have also so many different islands in Indonesia you can just fly one hour and then it can be similar, but completely different also, and different still, rich in culture, but different culture than here.
7:03
Matt Jacob: Wondersky, tell me about that name.
7:05
Matt Jacob: Why that name?
7:08
Kevin Mirc: um, uh, it came from uh, two, two things.
7:15
Kevin Mirc: So wonder came from wanderlust, like spirit of adventure.
7:19
Kevin Mirc: When I started traveling, it was like 10 years ago now, and Sky came from In my dreams.
7:30
Kevin Mirc: I'm always flying.
7:30
Kevin Mirc: I ended up flying.
7:32
Kevin Mirc: I grew up with Dragon Ball Z.
7:35
Kevin Mirc: With what?
7:36
Kevin Mirc: Dragon Ball Z, dragon Ball Z, the anime.
7:39
Matt Jacob: Oh, I didn't know that.
7:40
Kevin Mirc: This guy, son Goku.
7:42
Matt Jacob: Ah, okay.
7:44
Kevin Mirc: So they are flying everywhere and like it's like a dream, like if I would have to pick one superpower, I would be like flying.
7:51
Kevin Mirc: So I just combined the two words Wonder Sky and then I put double Y because the other one was taken.
8:02
Matt Jacob: And you named your dog Sky yeah.
8:05
Kevin Mirc: And then I just uh switch sky wonder, that's uh your style.
8:10
Matt Jacob: I mean, we're gonna get on to that in a minute.
8:12
Matt Jacob: I'm interested to know how you cultivated that style and why it might be important.
8:17
Matt Jacob: But let's rewind a little bit about your beginnings and kind of the point in your life where you felt photography was kind of your calling.
8:26
Matt Jacob: I know travel was a big part of it, but tell us your introduction into photography, how that all became so photography, uh, it has been a huge part of my life in even before I.
8:39
Kevin Mirc: I started like when I was younger, or like I was looking at a national geographic magazine or any travel magazine.
8:47
Kevin Mirc: I was always like in, oh, like, wow, like whoever took that picture is like master, and I always wanted to be that person that can do the same but never put like purpose or time to pursue this when I was living in france, and then, with traveling, this came more naturally, I guess.
9:21
Kevin Mirc: Traveling okay, pick up a camera and then just shoot whatever, even if first it was just shooting automatic, everything, yeah.
9:30
Kevin Mirc: And as a hobby it came with the travel.
9:36
Kevin Mirc: The travel brought the photography into my life, but as a hobby.
9:42
Kevin Mirc: And then at the one point in my life was after the wedding of my best friend in Lebanon, but as a hobby.
9:50
Kevin Mirc: And then at one point in my life it was after the wedding of my best friend in Lebanon I basically spent all my money.
9:54
Kevin Mirc: I spent all my money and I was living in Australia at that time and doing any kind of work and it was fun, it was a great lifestyle, but not doing something fulfilling, not something I like, just for the sake of money.
10:13
Kevin Mirc: So on my way back there I was in the Philippines and kind of like backpacking but like hardcore because no money left.
10:26
Kevin Mirc: And then I was in the hotel room and I was thinking like what do I like to do?
10:33
Kevin Mirc: I like to take pictures, and maybe there's a way to make it like people would pay me for it and this was what year that was in 2018 or 19.
10:44
Kevin Mirc: So that was in 2018 or 19.
10:47
Kevin Mirc: So then I was in the hotel room and I was on Facebook still using Facebook at that time.
10:56
Kevin Mirc: And you have a lot of Facebook groups French in Sydney, french in anywhere so I just put a message on this group French in Sydney, french in anywhere.
11:07
Kevin Mirc: So I just put a message on this group French in Sydney, just with a few pictures I took and saying, okay, this is what I do, this is what I can do for you, and I didn't expect so many answers from people.
11:17
Kevin Mirc: That's awesome.
11:19
Kevin Mirc: So that's how I got the first job there, and then I shifted slowly from all those jobs like construction, removalist everything, flyers in letterbox, anything Slowly shifting to more photography work.
11:35
Kevin Mirc: And then one year later I moved here and did the same.
11:45
Matt Jacob: How has the we talked about travel?
11:47
Matt Jacob: I resonate with that because I was a traveler before.
11:50
Matt Jacob: I was a photographer.
11:51
Matt Jacob: You just kind of came with the territory almost.
11:55
Matt Jacob: How has travel itself impacted your view on life and your kind of outlook, on how you want to express yourself?
12:05
Kevin Mirc: uh, I guess the main thing first is that I learned english, like in high school.
12:11
Kevin Mirc: We learn english in france, but I think the high school system there in the school system, is not the best for for languages.
12:18
Kevin Mirc: So I was really average, like below average, in english.
12:22
Kevin Mirc: And then I moved to australia and three months later I was already kind of fluent.
12:27
Kevin Mirc: Like, just like that, like all those years in school, you don't get anywhere, you just move abroad, you stick with english people for a few months and that's it.
12:38
Kevin Mirc: Then you dream in english and then you sold it.
12:41
Kevin Mirc: So, yeah, I guess, uh, travel impacted with, um, yeah, with english first, and then just like discovering and learning all those new culture, because you don't know about it unless you go and see for yourself.
12:59
Matt Jacob: So, yeah, and you having a kind of mixed origins.
13:07
Matt Jacob: Right, You're half Madagascan, half French.
13:09
Matt Jacob: They speak French in Madagascar, right?
13:13
Kevin Mirc: A lot speak French.
13:14
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, either good French or broken French, but still yeah.
13:19
Matt Jacob: Tell me a little bit about Madagascar.
13:20
Matt Jacob: I haven't been.
13:21
Matt Jacob: I'd love to go Madagascar is.
13:23
Matt Jacob: Tell me about how your roots there impact you, so my roots there.
13:28
Kevin Mirc: They're coming from my mom and um.
13:31
Kevin Mirc: It's a beautiful and wild, huge Island.
13:36
Kevin Mirc: A lot to discover there.
13:38
Kevin Mirc: Uh, my parents actually now they live there like half a year pretty much, so I try to go every year and I was living there for one year when I was younger also, and there and also there is a french island one hour from there.
13:58
Kevin Mirc: It's part of france but it's not in france, it's called Mayotte, so I was living there for eight years.
14:05
Kevin Mirc: So I guess I had this kind of travel, uh lifestyle already like from ages ago does it influence?
14:17
Matt Jacob: do you think your roots in Madagascar?
14:18
Matt Jacob: Oh yeah, definitely influence.
14:20
Matt Jacob: Yeah, yeah how?
14:22
Kevin Mirc: because when I was younger I was, uh, living there and experiencing experiencing already like different, uh culture than when then western, and as I grew up then I guess I wanted to see more of it.
14:37
Kevin Mirc: Like madagascar was kind of like, um, something I knew already, so something else like asia, austral, and still need to go to South America.
14:47
Kevin Mirc: But, yeah, made me want to seek more of different culture everywhere.
14:55
Matt Jacob: And did you have inspirations at that time, you know, when you started to travel and you started to kind of pick up a camera with traveling was?
15:03
Matt Jacob: Were there people that you looked up to in that space and were kind of inspired by, or did you just kind of focus on your own thing, on your own style and creating that?
15:12
Kevin Mirc: Uh, no, definitely there were some, some people, uh I think, yeah, on Instagram that I was looking looking up to, like mostly in the travel first, and then uh, more in the like culture, like I love what you do, for example, like amazing and um, maybe not only people, but also places, like there's like people based in some places and then like people based in iceland, or like in, uh, africa or australia that they made me like that's how I went to australia in the first place because of, um, people there and also because of a movie wolf creek all right, okay, interesting.
16:05
Matt Jacob: Um, tell me a little bit, like as you're kind of creating your way in the photography world, especially with the aesthetics and style and we talked about uniqueness earlier like when you're trying to be, I guess, competitive, whether directly or indirectly, with other other photographers and you're trying to pitch for jobs, and it all becomes it starts to become quite overwhelming sometimes.
16:29
Matt Jacob: How do you think that us, as photographers, are able to stand out from the crowd?
16:36
Matt Jacob: You know there are more photographers than there have ever been before.
16:41
Matt Jacob: How do we do that?
16:42
Matt Jacob: How do we make ourselves unique?
16:44
Matt Jacob: How do we make our work unique?
16:45
Matt Jacob: We're using the same gear most of the time.
16:48
Matt Jacob: We're using the same software most of the time.
16:50
Matt Jacob: How do we?
16:51
Matt Jacob: What's the secret recipe?
16:53
Kevin Mirc: uh, it's definitely a um interesting era now, I guess, mostly post covid.
16:59
Kevin Mirc: Everyone just popped up from nowhere and people can take amazing picture now, even with the phone, you know, and but I use, stand out, I think.
17:09
Kevin Mirc: I think you need to stick to to your style, develop your style and, uh, stay true to it.
17:20
Kevin Mirc: Don't try to like because there's new people out there that doing something different and maybe you think you have to do something similar to to success.
17:24
Kevin Mirc: Don't try to like because there's new people out there that doing something different and maybe you think you have to do something similar to to success.
17:29
Kevin Mirc: I think you need to keep your own, your own style, your own recipe and improve it without trying to compete or to um, conform, I guess.
17:46
Matt Jacob: How do we do that?
17:47
Kevin Mirc: How do we do that?
17:48
Kevin Mirc: That's a good question.
17:52
Matt Jacob: How did you create your style?
17:54
Matt Jacob: I mean, your style is unique, it's not.
17:58
Matt Jacob: I mean, I talk about this all the time.
18:01
Matt Jacob: I think it's impossible to be original these days, but it's unique.
18:04
Matt Jacob: You can still find your little unique box, right?
18:08
Kevin Mirc: Yeah.
18:12
Matt Jacob: Was that by accident or did you think?
18:13
Matt Jacob: Okay, but this is what I want to create and this is going to be my style throughout.
18:18
Kevin Mirc: I think it was a little bit by accident and I didn't notice it myself until people told me about it.
18:25
Kevin Mirc: Like, for example, I would sometimes get posted in one places because people share your stuff all the time Even sometimes they don't ask but and then people would send it to me and say, oh, I knew it was you, even before I checked the tag Right.
18:43
Kevin Mirc: And when you get that a few times first, I guess because of imposter syndrome thing, you don't think you're good enough or something, or you don't think you stand out.
18:56
Kevin Mirc: But when then a few people show it to you, then you start to believe it and to have more confidence.
19:07
Kevin Mirc: And so I don't know what is the secret thing in my style, but I try to stay consistent, I guess.
19:16
Matt Jacob: Hi everyone.
19:17
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19:23
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19:32
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19:44
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19:52
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19:57
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20:04
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20:08
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20:13
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20:19
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20:29
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20:33
Matt Jacob: All right, let's get back to the episode.
20:35
Matt Jacob: I think I can tell you the secret but having spoken to many, many people in your position is practice.
20:45
Matt Jacob: The more you do it, the more.
20:47
Kevin Mirc: You kind of learn your own style, yeah that's true.
20:48
Matt Jacob: There's a million different avenues you can go down, but you can only find those avenues if you actually walk down them.
20:54
Matt Jacob: Right oh no, that doesn't work.
20:55
Matt Jacob: Come back oh no, that doesn't work.
20:56
Matt Jacob: I don't really like that.
20:57
Matt Jacob: And then you end up finding what you like and what you're good at, and then what you can be recognized for, which I think is is super important.
21:04
Matt Jacob: Something else that I really wanted to ask you about that I saw on some of your work is how you can have an impact with your photography, and you talked about sustainability and working with brands that don't promote, you know, negative impacts on the climate, environment, on animals, which I am in full support for.
21:29
Matt Jacob: Can you elaborate a little bit more as to why and how?
21:33
Matt Jacob: If that's been quite successful for you, does that limit the people that you can work with, or do you find that, you know, a lot of brands are open to that kind of philosophy?
21:45
Kevin Mirc: find that, you know, a lot of brands are open to that kind of philosophy.
21:48
Kevin Mirc: Uh, yes, I think it limits a little bit, but uh, there's still brands out there that that will prioritize photographer like us that want to make an impact, but it's hard to find them like as in less and less so, or do you think that it's growing a little bit?
22:05
Kevin Mirc: there's more um, I think it's growing, it's better, it's more than in the past.
22:10
Kevin Mirc: For sure, like before, you would never hear about those brands, and now there's more and more that recycling things to make new, to make new, um, uh, new products, like, uh, even like for sky, like this, this brand, uh, cali cali dog wear is all from recycled stuff.
22:29
Kevin Mirc: The that's, that's the main.
22:32
Kevin Mirc: Um, how do you say a module?
22:34
Kevin Mirc: Or or business model model?
22:38
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, yeah.
22:38
Kevin Mirc: So this kind of brand before I think it was really, really small.
22:44
Kevin Mirc: You would never eat about it, and now I guess we start to care more about the planet.
22:48
Kevin Mirc: Now I hope it's not just a trend and you know, I don't think it's even a trend yet.
22:53
Matt Jacob: I mean, I wish it was.
22:54
Matt Jacob: I don't think it's as trendy as a lot of other things, but you know, I wish more people would care, More people would.
23:02
Matt Jacob: Certainly photographers I think a lot of artists think they're excluded from having to have any responsibility in that sense.
23:11
Matt Jacob: But you know, we could certainly do more in the industry.
23:16
Matt Jacob: I don't see many people doing work with brands that have that share the same philosophies and same brand values.
23:26
Matt Jacob: What I see is a selfish nature in what people want to get with likes and follows and money.
23:36
Matt Jacob: Right, and I get it.
23:37
Matt Jacob: Because people most photographers, most filmmakers are self-employed.
23:42
Matt Jacob: Right, they don't know when the next job's coming, so they need to pay the bills, et cetera, et cetera.
23:47
Matt Jacob: But I think if we're able to showcase a culture or a landscape like you said, window to the world right, If we're able to do that, then I don't see why we shouldn't be showing a window to these more important, Like a voice for them.
24:06
Kevin Mirc: Absolutely yeah.
24:08
Matt Jacob: Uh, but the brands have to be responsible as well, that there aren't enough.
24:12
Matt Jacob: If there aren't enough brands to be wanting to do that kind of work as well, having the budget, then what can we do?
24:20
Kevin Mirc: right, we have to do our own personal stuff, stuff which we don't get paid for and then sometimes the brands they just pretend, they just just put this label, but then if you do some digging, then you realize that yeah, they don't it's just a quota and it's just for show, right?
24:36
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, it's just for status so it's hard also even for us when you start working with someone that how do you know if it's legit?
24:44
Matt Jacob: you know are there any specific causes that you feel very strongly about that you want to do more work in?
24:53
Kevin Mirc: I think here for the local issue, I guess it would be the plastic yeah like I would really want to, like maybe reach out to like some guy watch, or something and help them with any project they have.
25:06
Kevin Mirc: Um then in the past I was uh working helping uh rescue 2000.
25:17
Matt Jacob: a rescue 2000 charity and non an ngo ngo.
25:20
Kevin Mirc: Yeah.
25:20
Kevin Mirc: So I put a little pause to that because I was doing it for like one year straight, every month, so I had a little break, but I think I'm ready to get back to it and help the island again.
25:33
Kevin Mirc: Any way to give back to this island is good.
25:38
Matt Jacob: Yeah, it gives so much, we just take, take, take all the time.
25:43
Kevin Mirc: Especially now we see this over.
25:45
Kevin Mirc: Developing is like insane, oh my goodness it's.
25:50
Matt Jacob: It seems to be getting worse daily and I don't want that to put people off from coming to bali, but I also do want to put people off from coming to bali.
25:57
Matt Jacob: But you know that it's so.
26:00
Matt Jacob: It's so, um, it's so focused on, you know, essentially the changu area, that it's so focused on, essentially the Canggu area, that it's insane.
26:08
Matt Jacob: You go out on the road any day and it just seems to be more and more construction and more and more roadworks and more and more queues.
26:13
Matt Jacob: But you go 20 minutes outside to the north or to the west, you're just in paradise right, it's so weird.
26:24
Matt Jacob: But yeah, bali gives so much and I think it's so.
26:29
Matt Jacob: I mean, even if it's a selfish endeavor to give back, because it is like we feel more fulfilled, feel like we have a purpose.
26:37
Matt Jacob: If we just give something back, whether it's just helping a local family or rescuing 20 dogs or whatever, it might be right um, I think if we can find that type of purpose in our hearts, it can help just so much.
26:52
Matt Jacob: But in the photography aspect, like I, I mean, I don't do enough either.
26:57
Matt Jacob: I'd like like to do a lot more when it comes to photography, because it's so powerful yeah, and when we start to grow on social media and we have more eyes on our work, then I mean, I'm going to put this question to you with someone who's has over 50 000 followers on his instagram.
27:12
Matt Jacob: Do you think there's a point where the responsibility now shifts like, okay, I've got a lot of people looking at my work.
27:20
Matt Jacob: That means now I have an element of influence where I can essentially shape or affect people's opinions and awareness and education on matters that I believe in.
27:33
Matt Jacob: Do you think?
27:41
Kevin Mirc: that's fair to say for people.
27:44
Kevin Mirc: It shouldn't be mandatory for them, but they should have this purpose on their own, like if they have many people looking up to them and following them.
27:58
Kevin Mirc: It could be even kids.
28:00
Kevin Mirc: You don't like, uh, the, the future generation, so you, you don't want to.
28:07
Kevin Mirc: I mean, I think you have a purpose or like to show the good example yeah, it's almost like celebrities.
28:20
Matt Jacob: Take a football player, right, you know that a lot of people are divided.
28:24
Matt Jacob: You know, once you become a famous football player and you get paid millions, do you have a responsibility to be a good role model?
28:30
Matt Jacob: You know, do you have a responsibility to behave well and show a good example to the younger generation.
28:37
Matt Jacob: It's difficult.
28:39
Matt Jacob: I understand kind of both sides.
28:42
Matt Jacob: But in the footballers example, they got into football because they love football.
28:49
Matt Jacob: Right, they didn't get into football, I mean 99.9% of the time.
28:54
Matt Jacob: They didn't get into football to be famous.
28:56
Matt Jacob: Yeah, probably a lot of them kind of like that side of it and the money of course, but they love the football, that side of it and the money of course, but they love the football.
29:08
Matt Jacob: I don't think we can say that about photographers or filmmakers and social media.
29:10
Matt Jacob: Like I don't.
29:10
Matt Jacob: I think most photographers film, me included, use social media and put a lot of effort into growing on social media because they either want to be social media famous.
29:20
Matt Jacob: They want that validation, that dopamine, like oh, people love me, right, get likes and follows.
29:25
Matt Jacob: Or they want to make money, right, they want to get exposure from brands and things like that.
29:30
Matt Jacob: So I don't think they're kind of the same, um.
29:35
Matt Jacob: So therefore, I think that if you are going into the social media world with the purpose of getting likes and follows and people and an audience, then that intent is very, very different.
29:49
Matt Jacob: You, your intention, is to get an audience.
29:52
Matt Jacob: Therefore, once you get that audience, for me it should be integral that you have a purpose and a responsibility to to do something good, right to either.
30:05
Matt Jacob: I mean, it's why education is good.
30:06
Matt Jacob: Education inspiration kind of comes with the territory, hopefully once you get an audience, but like offer something back, like try, and you know, try and do something good with that audience that you've worked so hard to garner, right?
30:19
Matt Jacob: I don't know what you think about that.
30:21
Matt Jacob: If you agree with I, I agree, yeah, definitely have you felt that in your own, with your own work and with your own social following?
30:33
Kevin Mirc: yeah, yeah, for sure.
30:34
Kevin Mirc: Like I try to stay and be genuine as possible, not to show someone I'm not.
30:44
Kevin Mirc: I try to stay and be genuine as possible, not to show someone I'm not.
30:46
Kevin Mirc: I try to say the same in my daily life, like on my social media.
30:52
Kevin Mirc: Sometimes it's a bit overwhelming social media, for sure, but I agree that we have a purpose to educate and document and try to do the right thing.
31:08
Kevin Mirc: I guess.
31:11
Matt Jacob: That's why I have an issue with influencers.
31:13
Matt Jacob: I don't mind influencers, but influence for the right things.
31:16
Kevin Mirc: When people call me an influencer, I'm like no, I'm not, I'm a photographer.
31:23
Matt Jacob: It's different.
31:23
Matt Jacob: People come here on influencer holidays, right where they just go to the, to the main spots around bali, just to get their you know the, the stupid influencer shot of behind looking up and but with a waterfall behind or something ridiculous like that.
31:34
Matt Jacob: If they have that audience, use it for good.
31:37
Matt Jacob: I'm not saying do everything for a good cause, but just like, if you have an audience, then like, do some good, like, do do something useful for it, don't just do the next thing, the next thing, just for more likes and more followers yeah yeah, yeah, um, anyway, I digress, I've gone to the social media topic again.
31:57
Matt Jacob: Talk to me about business, of photography, because I'm, as someone who's who doesn't do photography full-time and kind of pursue that business side of working with brands and doing photography projects and stuff.
32:08
Matt Jacob: Tell me a little bit about that world and how you balance the personal art with the commercial pressures.
32:18
Kevin Mirc: Difficult, that's difficult, but I guess, like everything, everything you need the balance, like I found out.
32:26
Kevin Mirc: Like every time you ask yourself some question about uh, should I do more of this or less of that?
32:32
Kevin Mirc: It's all about the balance for everything.
32:34
Kevin Mirc: Everything in life is the balance.
32:36
Kevin Mirc: So for commercial and personal is the the same.
32:39
Kevin Mirc: Sometimes you get a lot of similar jobs that they don't fulfill you, like it's not something you enjoy doing, could be like anything like shooting couples or like I don't know, like some sometimes just basic real estate thing, like you don't feel you can add your creative touch.
33:07
Kevin Mirc: It can be, yeah, it can be a bit stressful because you feel a bit caged, yeah so, but then at the end of the day you have to eat.
33:23
Kevin Mirc: So, but, um, if you like, um, you love your craft and you love getting out there and you can find project that will align with you, with your values and with your art.
33:40
Kevin Mirc: It's hard to get, but it's possible.
33:43
Kevin Mirc: Or you can even do like a project with no money intent, just to be creative.
33:52
Matt Jacob: Do you have any advice or strategies that can put you in a place where you try and have a steady stream of income or a steady stream of clients that you're working with, especially if you can be a little bit selective with those clients?
34:11
Kevin Mirc: I guess for those, it's the one you have to seek those clients, because it's rare that those clients will come to you.
34:19
Kevin Mirc: You have to get out there and show your work and have a portfolio and send hundred thousand of emails which I'm really bad at it, but yeah, um, I guess the best way is to get out there and show your work.
34:36
Kevin Mirc: Uh, show you the work you're proud of, mostly like uh, your favorite project, your favorite pictures, favorite video anything?
34:47
Matt Jacob: how do you be the competition, or do you not worry about that?
34:51
Kevin Mirc: um, it's an interesting question, um, especially now with all the the new, the new competition.
35:00
Kevin Mirc: But I guess I was a bit uh the new competition, but I guess I was a bit uh, scared and um, feeling threatened by that before.
35:13
Kevin Mirc: But with time I understood that, uh, there's no really competition like um, I see it more like uh, I see it more as like we're all doing something we love and there's enough work for anyone.
35:27
Kevin Mirc: So, instead of comparing yourself with others and try to compete and try to beat them, maybe it's better, even if you help them.
35:36
Kevin Mirc: I guess you, me, we have a lot of creative friends as well.
35:39
Kevin Mirc: If there's something, sometimes you try to get all the jobs, even if you it's not your expertise, you will try to do it.
35:48
Kevin Mirc: But sometimes it's better, maybe to give it to someone else, like, oh, maybe it's better fitted to do this job, or she's better, and then, uh, maybe even we can work on it together, you know, yeah, so so I try not to see too much the competition now, and then I feel better like that that's liberating, because if you think too much, then you will get in a spiral and it's not good that's really important for us to remember, and I think that there is enough work to go around.
36:20
Matt Jacob: There's enough abundance in this life for people to take their piece of the pie on.
36:25
Kevin Mirc: So even with so many photographers these days, it's um, it's still out there still there's still brands with budgets right and if it's not this one, then it's the next one.
36:36
Matt Jacob: Exactly, it's fine yeah, say that to the guys.
36:39
Matt Jacob: It doesn't have any money in his bank account.
36:41
Matt Jacob: Tell me about your attitude to storytelling with images.
36:49
Matt Jacob: It's a very difficult subject because it's not very clear cut.
36:57
Matt Jacob: Everyone has their own way of doing it, and with still images it's even more difficult.
37:02
Matt Jacob: Right, I want to focus on still images more than films, but how do you tell stories?
37:11
Kevin Mirc: How do you tell stories?
37:12
Kevin Mirc: So for me personally, I try to show different point of view, different angles.
37:21
Kevin Mirc: That's why I like using different lenses, because you get a close-up, you get a wide angle, you get a drone shot.
37:30
Kevin Mirc: It's the same story but different angles.
37:33
Kevin Mirc: So I guess that gives a bit of perspective for the watcher, the one seeing the picture.
37:43
Kevin Mirc: And then I guess with Instagram, when you do carousel, it's easier to tell a story because you just slide and then you see from the same, even, like I don't know, I can get you portrait and then a close-up of you with the glass maybe of your notepad, and then they know pretty much what we're talking about.
38:04
Kevin Mirc: I guess that's what I do the most is showing different angles and different perspectives, and I guess the caption as well.
38:18
Kevin Mirc: Like words, story like for culture, for example, story like uh for culture, for example, um ceremony.
38:25
Kevin Mirc: Then you want to tell people, not only show the picture but say what is it about?
38:32
Kevin Mirc: You know, like a Galwungan festival or anything like that coming soon.
38:36
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, I guess, uh, any tools you have to tell the story camera, uh, words, any tools you have to tell the story camera, words, voice, if you want to add voice, anything.
38:49
Matt Jacob: Yeah, yeah, a lot of it is technical, isn't it?
38:52
Matt Jacob: Um, portrait is a little bit different because you can help with the person and if you, if you're into directing or posing, then you can help with the expression.
39:02
Matt Jacob: But, yeah, I think I love your take on the different angles, um and how to, because I love doing environmental, like an environmental angle and a close-up as well, and that's why I like flying the drone.
39:14
Matt Jacob: You know people don't think portraits and drone, but I think it's really important to provide context.
39:19
Matt Jacob: Yeah, and that's where it's.
39:21
Matt Jacob: It's a double-edged sword with you talk about carousels.
39:25
Matt Jacob: I love showing series of images because for me, that tells a story.
39:30
Matt Jacob: I think one image can't really tell a story.
39:32
Matt Jacob: It's only like you can provide context, especially if it's an environmental shot.
39:36
Matt Jacob: It can.
39:36
Matt Jacob: You can get other things in the frame, right, but you can tell us a story.
39:42
Matt Jacob: I think that gets thrown around way too much.
39:45
Matt Jacob: But when it comes to series of images, like Instagram have screwed us again, because it's great that we have carousel option and that we're kind of forced into doing carousels no one really posts one image anymore, but that means we've got to take like five times as many photos and edit five times as many photos just for one post, right, but um, yeah, first of all, problem, I guess.
40:07
Matt Jacob: How do you see, um, how do you see us moving forward in in photography world and what do you think the photograph, the future of a photographer, looks like over the next five to 10?
40:22
Kevin Mirc: years.
40:22
Kevin Mirc: I guess we have to give a definition about photography because now it's evolving a lot with the AI.
40:36
Kevin Mirc: But it's like the question do you consider AI photography or is it just art?
40:41
Kevin Mirc: The AI photography or is it just art Like?
40:43
Kevin Mirc: For me, I guess it's more art for the AI because it takes away a bit the process of the to making a picture Like it takes away the thrill.
40:59
Kevin Mirc: So I think photography will still evolve and we'll still be there because we need photographs to show people in a thousand years how it was in our generation, people in thousand years, like it was in our generation.
41:26
Kevin Mirc: But I guess with the AI coming the future, I'm not sure, but I guess it needs to be a balance.
41:32
Kevin Mirc: Again, like you can use AI for small things like removing something on the picture, removing people I think it's fine.
41:41
Kevin Mirc: But when you change completely the photograph for example, like me, I love the process on creating a picture there's a full story behind the picture.
41:54
Kevin Mirc: Usually people who scroll on social or go on your website see the picture say wow, nice picture.
41:59
Kevin Mirc: But they don't know the process Like, oh, I woke up at 5 am, 4 am for this shot, maybe one week in a row, because I didn't get the right condition, and then now people with AI will just go there in the middle of the day and put some stars or put a nice sunset, and it takes away the magic of it.
42:23
Matt Jacob: I think that's important of getting BTS as well.
42:26
Matt Jacob: Again, it's something else we have to think about and add, but that's the challenge, I guess, and I think that will help with kind of separating the good from the great photographers.
42:37
Matt Jacob: A lot of people won't necessarily want to do that.
42:42
Matt Jacob: It's a lot of extra work, but I think certainly the professionals are the people that have come up before.
42:49
Matt Jacob: You know the real rise of instagram, the real rise of ai, then, I think, to stay at that level and to to show that they are real images and it's the real process, like you said.
42:59
Matt Jacob: Um, important to get BTS, important to, I think, legislation to catch up with how we're going to authenticate real images.
43:09
Matt Jacob: You know, even Instagram now you have this made with AI level is super weird.
43:13
Matt Jacob: I don't.
43:14
Matt Jacob: Yeah, I haven't.
43:15
Kevin Mirc: Sometimes you don't know what's real or what's not.
43:17
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, Even like even videos, you don't know if it's the right face the real face of someone.
43:24
Matt Jacob: if they put someone's face and then I'm more scared for people using like the way I'm talking now, and people you know could easily use these clips to just either use my voice or my face to just completely generate something artificial.
43:42
Kevin Mirc: Yeah.
43:43
Matt Jacob: Which scares me.
43:44
Matt Jacob: It's scary, yeah, like my mum getting these people, these old people, getting taken advantage of.
43:50
Matt Jacob: I mean, I don't know if you've heard any stories like this, yeah, yeah, yeah, when their daughter or their son's voice has been cloned and then they get sent this message saying I need some money.
43:58
Kevin Mirc: I need some money, yeah, yeah.
44:05
Matt Jacob: Like how fucking scary and screwed up is that?
44:06
Matt Jacob: And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
44:07
Matt Jacob: So yeah, I mean photography is kind of a luxury, but you know, in the real world it's we've got to prepare ourselves.
44:11
Matt Jacob: It's getting a bit out of hand.
44:12
Matt Jacob: So yeah, we just stay in a little bubble.
44:15
Matt Jacob: Stay in a little bubble.
44:16
Kevin Mirc: It's in a little Bali bubble.
44:19
Matt Jacob: Where do you think?
44:20
Matt Jacob: Oh sorry, why do you think people follow you?
44:24
Matt Jacob: Follow me, why should they follow you?
44:27
Matt Jacob: Two questions Okay.
44:30
Kevin Mirc: So why they follow me?
44:32
Kevin Mirc: I think they probably have a love for photography, I guess, and as I live in Bali, maybe they've either been here before or want to come here, and then maybe they're looking for inspiration about Bali in general or travel, or maybe it's their dream to travel also or to escape the office life.
45:01
Kevin Mirc: I don't know.
45:02
Kevin Mirc: Maybe that's one of the reasons If they love travel and photography.
45:06
Kevin Mirc: That's my main thing.
45:08
Kevin Mirc: My goal is to travel as much as possible, as long as I can, because it came late, I think, to my life.
45:20
Kevin Mirc: Then I realized that life is short.
45:22
Kevin Mirc: We have only one, but I don't know why.
45:24
Kevin Mirc: Before we don't realize it, it's like, oh, we need to work and make money, and then then you wake up and you're like, oh, all the past 30s.
45:34
Kevin Mirc: So, yeah, yeah, I think, if they they like genuine and so yeah, yeah, I think.
45:43
Kevin Mirc: If they like genuine photography, travel, culture that's my main thing.
45:50
Kevin Mirc: If they like dogs also.
45:55
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46:10
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46:18
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46:19
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46:30
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46:45
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46:54
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47:01
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47:16
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47:24
Matt Jacob: Okay, I'm done.
47:26
Matt Jacob: Promise I'll let you get back to it.
47:28
Matt Jacob: What about how you move forward and how you evolved?
47:32
Matt Jacob: Is that something that you're constantly thinking about, like how do I get better?
47:36
Matt Jacob: Or how do I tell the next story?
47:39
Matt Jacob: How do I evolve as an artist?
47:42
Kevin Mirc: I guess it's with what you said before, with practice, like practicing, evolving, like practicing.
47:51
Kevin Mirc: Maybe, when you get really good at what you're doing now, maybe then try something new.
47:57
Kevin Mirc: Sometimes we are a bit forced to like video, but I guess it's not a bad thing also to add something to your, to your, to your skills, to your skill set.
48:09
Kevin Mirc: So, yeah, try something new, get good at this and then again something new, but always something that you enjoy doing.
48:17
Matt Jacob: don't do something because you feel forced to, but then it's always balance again yeah, yeah, I feel like that's part of the, you know, being able to enjoy the process right rather than it's sick.
48:31
Matt Jacob: Do you think about success being an end goal for you, something that you want to achieve, or are you just more focused on the practice, the evolution, the journey?
48:41
Kevin Mirc: uh, I guess it's always in the in the back of my mind like success.
48:46
Kevin Mirc: But it's like, uh, success is like maybe at the end or in the in the process, but when you fix one goal and then you reach it, and then you reach, uh, you fix a higher goal, yeah, yeah, always non-stop.
49:02
Matt Jacob: Yeah, what?
49:03
Matt Jacob: What does the?
49:04
Matt Jacob: If you think about success right now, what does that look like to you?
49:09
Kevin Mirc: success right now I guess.
49:11
Kevin Mirc: I guess it would be more jobs, um be.
49:21
Kevin Mirc: More jobs, curated, I guess, is the word with what I enjoy, more doing like culture and travel, not really commercial, but more travel and culture oriented, a bit like National Geographic, I guess yeah, to give an example.
49:42
Kevin Mirc: So shift those, um, not only like projects but like, I guess, get uh, I don't know how to say that to like main projects in this field instead of commercial and things that sometimes you don't enjoy doing.
50:02
Matt Jacob: Having that freedom of choice.
50:04
Kevin Mirc: Yeah.
50:05
Matt Jacob: Let's start wrapping things up and I want to kind of end with a little bit of takeaways maybe we can give to the audience.
50:12
Matt Jacob: I want to hear from you.
50:14
Matt Jacob: I'm going to give you the chance to give me three tips and tricks that you've kind of learned over six, eight, 10 years travel, photography, business, social media, art, creativity, kind of all of that rolled into one.
50:32
Matt Jacob: And speaking to those people that are wanting to do what you want to do right, People who you say should follow you or do follow you, what advice can you give to them that you've learned along your journey?
50:48
Kevin Mirc: I guess one advice I get a lot from people that they want to do this but they don't do it.
50:57
Kevin Mirc: They don't start Like they're scared, they're like, oh, you're so lucky, oh I wish I could do this.
51:05
Kevin Mirc: And then I'm like, but start Even something small.
51:10
Kevin Mirc: Like if it's photography you want to do, then get even an entry camera is enough to start and practice, and then maybe later you get something else.
51:22
Kevin Mirc: But these days it's enough to start and just practice.
51:28
Kevin Mirc: So I guess that's one tip.
51:31
Kevin Mirc: It's kind of like I guess it's taken a given.
51:39
Kevin Mirc: This tip people need to hear it more like they just need to start somewhere even small.
51:47
Kevin Mirc: Then another tip is yeah, because people are asking about how do you edit this, how do you do that?
51:58
Kevin Mirc: But I guess the best is practice.
51:59
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, practice.
52:00
Kevin Mirc: Guess the best is to practice.
52:01
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, practice is the best, yeah.
52:05
Kevin Mirc: And third tip I'm not sure.
52:12
Matt Jacob: That's enough.
52:13
Kevin Mirc: I can ask you the last one.
52:17
Matt Jacob: Third tip would be I think it's easier said than done, but being true to yourself.
52:26
Matt Jacob: I think it's more important to know who you are than it is to go and create amazing work.
52:35
Matt Jacob: I don't think they're mutually exclusive.
52:46
Matt Jacob: I think, to create a body of work that you're proud of or to you know, look back at some images or films or whatever type of art or creativity you're into and be proud of that.
52:53
Matt Jacob: I think you can only do that when you truly know yourself and are able to you know, know.
52:59
Matt Jacob: Therefore, be true to yourself in terms of what voice or what style or what you're trying to do with, with everything that comes across in work and communication, and certainly with brands, clients, your audience.
53:11
Matt Jacob: So I think that would be.
53:12
Matt Jacob: I'd certainly agree with your first two.
53:16
Matt Jacob: I think you know, just start it's.
53:20
Matt Jacob: You know so many people, um, and it's it's more accessible than ever right now, like you have a phone, you can start if you got well, you've got.
53:30
Matt Jacob: social media is free, you know, so you can go on there, garner some inspiration, start posting, send to your friends and family and just just just go out and just shoot.
53:41
Matt Jacob: Learn YouTube's free, learn the basics there's so many free resources these days, um, so, yeah, I definitely agree with that.
53:52
Matt Jacob: And then practice.
53:53
Matt Jacob: I think people used to say that to me and like nah, nah, I got it.
53:55
Matt Jacob: No, you practice, whether it's edits or the most common.
54:00
Matt Jacob: I've just built an online course around this question.
54:03
Matt Jacob: Most people ask me or they stopped asking me now because I think they know me better but what camera did you use, what lens do you use or what settings did you use for that shot?
54:14
Matt Jacob: Right, yeah, no you're asking the wrong.
54:15
Matt Jacob: you're asking the wrong question.
54:16
Matt Jacob: You're asking the wrong question.
54:17
Matt Jacob: Um, practice and um, just go and figure out what does work, okay?
54:24
Matt Jacob: Um, it's not the, it's not the gear and it's not not most of the time, it's not the setting.
54:29
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, I wanted to say something about that, about this not only the gear is like so many factors that will affect one shot, or like the I guess ability or capacity of one photographer to take advantage of of the gear.
54:48
Kevin Mirc: Like it's not only the gear, but, like I was always thinking, like even just the breathing.
54:55
Kevin Mirc: Like if someone has more steady hand than someone, then they can take more advantage of a slower shutter speed and get more light than someone else, for example.
55:06
Kevin Mirc: Yep, just like, oh, maybe if you work on your breathing, or, uh, if you have, yeah, more steady hand, or that's a great tip like someone, because when you shoot in low light, okay, you can use maybe the flash or something, but some people maybe don't like to use the flash and someone with a more steady end could shoot more in the blue hour than someone else.
55:30
Kevin Mirc: I don't know like so many factors.
55:33
Matt Jacob: Yeah, I drink too much coffee to shoot.
55:35
Matt Jacob: Blue hour, no, but you're totally right, because people rely on image stabilization.
55:40
Matt Jacob: They buy the most expensive camera and they go, it's got, you know, image stabilization.
55:45
Matt Jacob: I'll be fine, but it's, you know, it's, it's kind of defeats the the point, the point being, if you're mindful and thoughtful enough and you're able to, to be in that moment and be relaxed and people don't talk about breathing enough, but it's so important, especially if you're shooting maybe wildlife, or you're shooting people, right.
56:05
Matt Jacob: Landscape is a little bit different, shooting on tripod, but even then, like just to be able to breathe, be in the moment, make sure you get it capturing the right moment, all these little things.
56:16
Matt Jacob: That's so much more important than the gear.
56:19
Matt Jacob: It's not the gear that makes the photographer right, it's the photographer that makes the gear.
56:22
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, sometimes people tell you, oh, your camera takes good pictures.
56:29
Matt Jacob: And I'm a guy that loves buying good equipment.
56:32
Matt Jacob: Oh, yeah, me too, but that's not the same point, it's just a bonus.
56:36
Matt Jacob: Yeah, it's a bonus, exactly Like if you know, you've got to know how to use that equipment and get the best out of it.
56:42
Matt Jacob: And yeah, obviously the better camera with the better sensor and the better lens is going to get you a better quality image, but you've got to know how to get that image in the first place to then get the best out of that quality right.
57:00
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, it's like, for example, in paddle you buy the best racket doesn't mean you're going to be a great player.
57:06
Matt Jacob: It's analogous to anything like that, right?
57:09
Matt Jacob: Anyway, speaking of paddle, we've got to get you off to your paddle tournament.
57:12
Matt Jacob: Thank you so much for joining me today.
57:16
Kevin Mirc: Thank you for having me.
57:17
Kevin Mirc: It was great, great conversation.
57:19
Matt Jacob: Really enjoyable and I know it's a bit of a Thank you for having me.
57:21
Matt Jacob: It was great, great conversation, really enjoyable, and I know you come here a few times before for coffee, so make sure you keep coming back.
57:26
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, of course I will.
57:28
Matt Jacob: Hopefully I'll see you again.
57:29
Kevin Mirc: Yeah, thanks so much, you will.
57:30
Matt Jacob: Cheers.
57:32
Kevin Mirc: Thank you.