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Tourist Searching Desert for Rocks Finds Tot Girl's Dead Body · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A tiny girl body found
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Speaker 1: in sand and rocks. She was dead, but also taken
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Speaker 1: from her her name. Years go by, this tiny girl
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Speaker 1: never identified. She became known as little Miss Nobody, I
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Speaker 1: Meanancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you for being
0:45
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven.
0:50
Speaker 1: How does the story unfold? Listen to our friends at
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Speaker 1: the County Sheriff's office in Yavapaie County. Somebody who was
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Speaker 1: out looking for rocks. It was a gentleman out of
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Speaker 1: Las Vegas, was out looking for rocks around Highway ninety
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Speaker 1: three the Congress area Alama Lake Road and came across
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Speaker 1: her partially buried body. Called in our deputies and detectives
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Speaker 1: went out. They recovered her. They tried to identify her
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Speaker 1: the courses in nineteen sixty. Medical science has advanced quite
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Speaker 1: a bit since then, but originally she was thought to
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Speaker 1: be a seven year old girl, and because of the
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Speaker 1: state of decomposition, that was the best estimate that they
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Speaker 1: could give. I just take that in for a moment.
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Speaker 1: A little girl's body found by some guy looking for
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Speaker 1: rocks out in the middle of nowhere. This child left
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Speaker 1: in the elements under the sun, the wind, the rane
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Speaker 1: embedded in sand and rocks. How did this happen? Who
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Speaker 1: is little Miss Nobody again? I'm Nancy Grace. This is
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us, with me an
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Speaker 1: all star panel to analyze what we know. First of all,
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Speaker 1: doctor Kristen Middleman, CHIEFS Chief Development Officer at author m INK,
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Speaker 1: DNA sALS dot Com, Dale Carson, high profile lawyer joining
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Speaker 1: me out of Jacksonville, former fed with the FBI and
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Speaker 1: author of Arrest Proof Yourself on Amazon or Renowned psychologist
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Speaker 1: doctor Jory Crassen joining US faculty Saint Leo University, consultant
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Speaker 1: with the Blue Wall Institute and author of Operation s
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Speaker 1: O S. Doctor Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, medical examiner Sheriff's
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Speaker 1: Department with Lexington County and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide.
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Speaker 1: Mars Nick's longtime friend and colleague, Detective Cobb County Cold
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Speaker 1: Case Unit. But first to Brianna Whitney, Emmy Award winning
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Speaker 1: reporter CBS five and three TV Arizona's family. Brianna, thank
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Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. First of all,
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Speaker 1: I want to understand the area where little Miss Nobody
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Speaker 1: was found. Could you describe that for us? Yeah, So
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Speaker 1: she was found in Congress, Arizona, which is a town
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Speaker 1: not many people have even heard of in Arizona, and
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Speaker 1: that's because it's so rural and it's so small in population.
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Speaker 1: I don't think they have more than two thousand people
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Speaker 1: that live there even to this day. It's one of
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Speaker 1: those towns where if you're maybe driving to Prescott or
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Speaker 1: Flagstaff or Sedona, you might drive through it and not
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Speaker 1: even know you drove through it. So it's interesting that
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Speaker 1: that man was out there looking for rock because had
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Speaker 1: somebody not been out there for a specific reason, I
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Speaker 1: don't think that her remains may have been found. There's
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Speaker 1: just nothing out there. It's really rural Arizona. The most
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Speaker 1: you can get. I was fine to imagine what you're
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Speaker 1: talking about with me. Brianna Whitney Award winning reporter, Brianna,
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Speaker 1: What does it look like? I mean, is it desert? Land?
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Speaker 1: Are there? Is there cactus? Are there trees? Forests? Water, river? What?
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Speaker 1: What does it look like? So Arizona's terrain is interesting
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Speaker 1: because in Phoenix and down in the valley you have
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Speaker 1: the desert. What you picture is Arizona the cac die,
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Speaker 1: the rocks, things like that. But as you go north
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Speaker 1: and northwest where this is, it doesn't look the same.
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Speaker 1: It completely changes. So we're talking rural. But it's not
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Speaker 1: that desert that you picture. There's some trees, even some
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Speaker 1: red woods, some pines up there, and imagine just flat
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Speaker 1: land and one highway in and out that most people
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Speaker 1: aren't stopping at. They're just going through. In that area.
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Speaker 1: There's a lot of truck stops, small gas stations, but
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Speaker 1: that's about it. Of course, I'm taking it everything you're saying.
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Speaker 1: And my ears really perked up when you said near
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Speaker 1: a highway. So it's kind of as you're saying, the
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Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. Let me go to Dale Carson former
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Speaker 1: fair with the FBI, now lawyer in Jacksonville, Dale. This
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Speaker 1: is the perfect example, and I've used it before the
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Speaker 1: case of Dylan and Shasta Grone, who if you take
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Speaker 1: an aerial view of where they lived in cor De Laye, Idaho,
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Speaker 1: you look down, there's nothing but green, the tops of trees.
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Speaker 1: That's it. But there's an interstate going through cor Delaye
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Speaker 1: and the person that kidnapped Dylan and Shasta, a brother
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Speaker 1: and a sister, was driving the interstate looked over and
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Speaker 1: saw Shasta in the distance on an above ground pool,
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Speaker 1: pulled off, stalked the family, waited for the night, killed
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Speaker 1: the whole family, and took the children. And you can
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Speaker 1: imagine the rest. She was only rescued after many many
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Speaker 1: nights of us covering it wins. A woman at like
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Speaker 1: a seven to eleven gas station saw her and recognized
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Speaker 1: her from TV coverage. That's how she was saved. Her
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Speaker 1: brother had been molested and murdered. So when we say,
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Speaker 1: when you're hearing Brianna Whitney, who, by the way, his
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Speaker 1: host of True Crime Arizona's podcast, when you hear her
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Speaker 1: describing what I envisioned like a wind swept desert area
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Speaker 1: with some redwood trees cacti, that interstate changes who may
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Speaker 1: have killed this child. Of course, at the beginning, they
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Speaker 1: don't even know if she was killed or wandered away.
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Speaker 1: But in an area that remote Delle Carson, we would
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Speaker 1: know if a child had wandered away. Well, that's exactly right.
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Speaker 1: The family would know that the child wandered away. And
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Speaker 1: for a young child to be found in a washed
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Speaker 1: out area where somebody would go to look for rocks
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Speaker 1: and things like that is obviously extremely unusual. And the
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Speaker 1: interstate brings in interstate and those areas allow people to
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Speaker 1: drive by, see that gully and figure that's the best
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Speaker 1: place to place a body. Deal Carson, it's Highway ninety three.
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Speaker 1: That is a long stretch of road. So this child
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Speaker 1: could come from anywhere and her body just be dumped there.
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Speaker 1: I agree, there's no indication she had just wandered off,
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Speaker 1: and at that young age, she's certainly not a runaway. Guys,
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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Linda Williams, Phoenix. It
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Speaker 1: appears someone in Arizona got away with murder little girl
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Speaker 1: between three and five years old, found partially buried in
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Speaker 1: the desert. Who was she? And who put her body
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Speaker 1: in the sandwashed creek bed in Congress, Arizona with no answers.
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Speaker 1: Over the years, some nicknamed the victim little miss Nobody.
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Speaker 1: And we're seeing now the age is changing. To doctor
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Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree, forensic Pathologists, medical examiner, we first heard the
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Speaker 1: child is seven. Now we're hearing she's as young as
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Speaker 1: three to five years old. How do you come up
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Speaker 1: with the age change? As we look at the body itself,
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Speaker 1: and we looked particularly at the skull. We look at
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Speaker 1: the size and the length of the bones, and doing
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Speaker 1: measurements like that, we can narrow the age down a
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Speaker 1: lot better based on the length of the bones, based
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Speaker 1: on the length of the bones, based on point of
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Speaker 1: the epipho seals, which is a part of the bone
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Speaker 1: that is solidified or not. What about the teeth. We
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Speaker 1: can look at the teeth as well, absolutely if there's
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Speaker 1: our teeth available. And when you say you can look
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Speaker 1: at the teeth, if you're looking at the mouth of
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Speaker 1: a child, it's three versus the mouth of a child
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Speaker 1: that's seven. What would you expect to find. We would
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Speaker 1: expect to find older teeth. You would expect to find
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Speaker 1: more permanent teeth being there not as many baby teeth
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Speaker 1: and a younger child which would fall out, So you
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Speaker 1: would expect to find older teeth, if you will time
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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. We are analyzing it so in
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Speaker 1: such a sterile way. To Mars Nicks, my longtime friend
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Speaker 1: and colleague, Cold Case Unit cob County Detective Mars, you
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Speaker 1: and I have been working on the cold case of
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Speaker 1: a little earl Debbie Randall for a really long time. Yes,
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Speaker 1: and here we all are analyzing the evidence. How long
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Speaker 1: is the skeleton, how many teeth does she have? Where
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Speaker 1: was she found? Brianna Whitney giving us a description, a
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Speaker 1: verbal picture of what the area looks like. And I'm
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Speaker 1: just imagining this little girl left out in sand and
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Speaker 1: rocks to decompose. But you know what, it's not analytical
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Speaker 1: because this child is somebody's baby. Yes, yes, you know,
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Speaker 1: I'm curious. It's the one they burned. The body then
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Speaker 1: intrigued me. Well, hold on, you're all right, mars Nicks.
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Speaker 1: The body we learned was burned. Take a listen to
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Speaker 1: reporter Joe Dana twelve News. The girls remains were found
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Speaker 1: burned and partially buried in a wash in Congress, Arizona,
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Speaker 1: about eighty five miles northwest of Phoenix. She was laid
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Speaker 1: to rest in an unnamed grave. Over the decades, the
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Speaker 1: cold case simply referred to as the case of little
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Speaker 1: Miss Nobody. The primary goal is to find out who
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Speaker 1: she is. That's Ryan Morris Knicks. You've got to know
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Speaker 1: who your victim is to start the investigation, because you know,
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Speaker 1: investigations would typically start in a case like this with
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Speaker 1: people that knew or even related to the little girl victim. Well,
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Speaker 1: I'm curious is what they used. I was involved in
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Speaker 1: another case where they thought they could put lighter fluid.
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Speaker 1: Of course we know that doesn't get hot enough. It
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Speaker 1: just scorts the body. Was her body seriously learned? Was
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Speaker 1: it scorted? That's a really good question and I want
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Speaker 1: to follow up on that question to doctor Kristen Middleman,
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Speaker 1: chief development officer at Offram. Doctor Middleman, thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us. How badly does the body have to
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Speaker 1: be burned to make it impossible to extract DNA from
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Speaker 1: bones or teeth? So for us, because we're purpose spelt
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Speaker 1: to work with forensic evidence, that's all we do, or
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Speaker 1: able to work with evidence that I mean, cremation would
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Speaker 1: be what you would have to do in order to
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Speaker 1: assure that we would not be able to get DNA
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Speaker 1: off of the body. But that's a very good point,
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Speaker 1: because most techniques out there and most slots out there,
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Speaker 1: could never get DNA from a body that has been
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Speaker 1: burned at all, let alone badly burned as in this case.
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Speaker 1: Why do you say, doctor Middleman, that the body would
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Speaker 1: have to be essentially cremated in other words, burned incinerated
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Speaker 1: to preclude DNA because we have tailored our techniques in
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Speaker 1: order to work with evidence that's otherwise thought to be inaccessible,
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Speaker 1: evidence that otherwise could not be processed and answers could
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Speaker 1: never be gotten from and therefore identities would never be ascertained.
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Speaker 1: So we have build methods that allow us to work
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Speaker 1: with such low amounts of DNA or DNA that is
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Speaker 1: super contaminated DNA that is mostly non human because as
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Speaker 1: you know, if you're out in the elements, as little
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Speaker 1: Miss Nobody's body was, you have a lot of contamination
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Speaker 1: that is non human contamination. We have worked through every
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Speaker 1: one of these obstacles that have previously prevented people from
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Speaker 1: being able to sequence the DNA and create a profile
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Speaker 1: that would give you back that person's identity. And the
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Speaker 1: science is here. It's robust. You can look on DNA
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Speaker 1: solves and look at our solve cases. And doctor Middleman,
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Speaker 1: when you say cremation, the temperature for cremation goes as
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Speaker 1: high as about eighteen hundred degrees fahrenheit. I mean that's
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Speaker 1: more than any you know, consumer oven or a fire pick.
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Speaker 1: I mean it brings to mind, doctor Middleman. I don't
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Speaker 1: know if you're familiar with the case of Teresa Hallback,
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Speaker 1: or you may be familiar with the sensational documentary Making
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Speaker 1: a Murderer about Stephen Avery, her killer, suggesting that he
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Speaker 1: was framed Stephen Avery the night that she's twenty six,
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Speaker 1: twenty seven year old Teresa Halback, she was a photographer
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Speaker 1: for like a penny pincher, oh it's auto trader, and
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Speaker 1: she went to his place to take pictures of a
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Speaker 1: vehicle and disappeared. Not only was her car found on
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Speaker 1: his property hidden, but that night Avery stirred a fire
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Speaker 1: pit all night long. His family, relatives, blood relatives, neighbors
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Speaker 1: describe him stirring a fire pit all night. When police
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Speaker 1: finally went to the location, they found not only the
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Speaker 1: studs off the back of her Daisy Fiuentus blue jeans,
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Speaker 1: they also found teeth. Teeth that was all that was
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Speaker 1: left to raise the haul back. Can you get DNA
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Speaker 1: from teeth? Yes? So I think that that's the case
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Speaker 1: that Awthroom could work. And we have worked and I
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Speaker 1: can't announce prior to law enforcement announcing, but I can't
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Speaker 1: tell you that we have worked cases from charred remains,
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Speaker 1: multiple cases that will be announced shortly. Charred Remains what
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Speaker 1: if somebody's nothing but ashes, why can't you get And
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Speaker 1: I know this seems like a rudimentary question, but why
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Speaker 1: can't you get DNA from ashes? Because they would travel
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Speaker 1: through the ashes and it would be very hard to
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Speaker 1: pinpoint where the location of that DNA would be there.
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Speaker 1: It would be very hard to put it together. You
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Speaker 1: don't want to. The ashes would have deluted that DNA
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Speaker 1: out in a way that we wouldn't be able to
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Speaker 1: find it and get it. When you have a tooth
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Speaker 1: or you have a charred remain, even if it's you know,
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Speaker 1: super super degraded, and that's something I should have said.
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Speaker 1: We are in our methods are insensitive to degradation. We
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Speaker 1: have been able to identify remains from eighteen eighty one.
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Speaker 1: We've been able to identify remains that are severely degraded
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Speaker 1: because they were underwater for decades and decades and like
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Speaker 1: I said, charred remains and has never been an issue.
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Speaker 1: So what you need is something that you can actually
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Speaker 1: pinpoint to collect the DNA from ashes, I think would
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Speaker 1: be hard to Doctor Jory cross and joining us a
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Speaker 1: renowned psychologist faculty at Saint Leo University and consultant and author.
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Speaker 1: I could go on, doctor Jory, they thought, just think
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Speaker 1: of it and it's not pleasant. And I've had to
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Speaker 1: force Gurars to think of unpleasant thoughts before much in
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Speaker 1: this manner. But imagine trying to burn a three year
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Speaker 1: old girl's body. Well, I kind of mindset could do that,
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Speaker 1: to put a flame to a child's ski in. It's
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Speaker 1: just very hard for me to comprehend that. Yeah, and
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Speaker 1: you know the legal term, I guess premeditation. I mean,
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Speaker 1: just look at the for lack of better the organization,
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Speaker 1: and he has he's got to have a fuel source,
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Speaker 1: you know, so he's got a plan. Like the location.
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Speaker 1: This location is you know, very difficult to get to.
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Speaker 1: Uh so, you know, trying to like say profile or
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Speaker 1: understand his behavior, there was somewhat of a plan in
17:32
Speaker 1: this location. It may have just been the ruralness of
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Speaker 1: it and where he could dispose of the body. But
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Speaker 1: you know what doctor Jorian tells me, he's been there before.
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Speaker 1: Because if somebody asked me, where are you going to
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Speaker 1: dispose of a body, I certainly would not think a
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Speaker 1: sand creek wash Congress Arizona. I wouldn't even note to
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Speaker 1: say that. So he had to be familiar with it. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: and probably has disposed of bodies like this before. Alls. Oh,
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Speaker 1: you know what, you're right. I guarantee you the thing
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Speaker 1: is first time at the rodeo Gary Tee. You don't
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Speaker 1: go from zero to one twenty mph overnight. Have you
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Speaker 1: found that to be true? Morris Nix Morris is Cold
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Speaker 1: Case Unit Detective, Cobb County. I mean, this is not
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Speaker 1: this guy's first time at violent crime. You know, to
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Speaker 1: rape and murder a three year old girl, because you
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Speaker 1: know that had to be HWAITI took her then kill
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Speaker 1: her and and burn her body and leave it. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's um, it goes to a certain level of most
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Speaker 1: of us don't understand. It's not something you do one time.
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Speaker 1: And then Debbie's case. That's what we have worked very
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Speaker 1: hard to do, is to connect just with another case,
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Speaker 1: which we haven't done yet. But I agree, this is
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Speaker 1: not a one time thing. No, no, no, no no.
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Speaker 1: If there's another reasons jumping in, is this Dale or
18:53
Speaker 1: it is this Dale? Look, there's another reason you burn
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Speaker 1: a body. You burn a body so it can't easily
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Speaker 1: be a identified And the reason you do that is
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Speaker 1: because there's somebody in the area or the vicinity missing
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Speaker 1: and you don't want that person to be found. And
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Speaker 1: an organized killer as opposed to a disorganized killer. We'll
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Speaker 1: plan things out just as we discussed, and we'll do
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Speaker 1: things like this. They'll burn the body, they'll bury it,
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Speaker 1: all in an effort to cover up what their behavior wash.
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Speaker 1: If you look, there probably maybe other similar behavior patterns
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Speaker 1: with bodies. There may be a lot that. Of course,
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Speaker 1: I haven't been found more missing little girls because it
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Speaker 1: takes a certain type of mind to want to rape
19:46
Speaker 1: a three year old girl. That's not the same mind
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Speaker 1: then wants to rape or attack an adult woman or attainer.
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Speaker 1: So if there are other missing little girls, I would
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Speaker 1: say throughout the region, I would try to connect. Get
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Speaker 1: back to this time stories with Nancy Grace. Back to
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Speaker 1: little Miss Nobody, A tiny girl body found in sand
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Speaker 1: and rocks. Dad, take a listen to our cup one.
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Speaker 1: This is justin Lamb at Fox ten. Little girl between
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Speaker 1: three and five years old, found partially buried in the desert.
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Speaker 1: The case still haunts the Yavapine County Sheriff's office. Who
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Speaker 1: is this little girl in the sketch dubbed a little
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Speaker 1: Miss Nobody? Her partially buried remains found at Sandwash Creek
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Speaker 1: in Congress, Arizona, on July thirty first, nineteen sixty. Investigators
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Speaker 1: believe her remains had been burned one to two weeks
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Speaker 1: before she was discovered. The cause of death undetermined yet suspicious,
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Speaker 1: and it was ruled a homicide. Interesting, you know, I'm
21:14
Speaker 1: just trying to envision where she was left, the burning
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Speaker 1: of her body, and I just heard a new fact
21:22
Speaker 1: to Brianna Whitney, joining us CBS five and three and
21:27
Speaker 1: a host of True Crime Arizona podcast. She was actually
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Speaker 1: partially buried as well, Whitney that I jumped out at
21:35
Speaker 1: me before. Yeah, so that's where she was found, partially
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Speaker 1: buried in the ground the dirt, which I think confuses
21:43
Speaker 1: people even more because that obviously takes effort to do.
21:48
Speaker 1: It's not like her body was just dumped and they
21:51
Speaker 1: drove on. That took some time and some deliberate effort
21:55
Speaker 1: to partially bury her. I am assuming that because it
22:01
Speaker 1: is so rural out there and there isn't much that
22:04
Speaker 1: was an attempt to hide the body, to conceal it
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Speaker 1: without people driving by didn't see it. But then that
22:11
Speaker 1: begs the question why even dump it right there? If
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Speaker 1: it would be so noticeable because there's nothing else there.
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Speaker 1: And it took a guy walking around from another jurisdiction
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Speaker 1: looking for a particular type of rock to come upon
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Speaker 1: the body. And you know, the reality is doctor Michelle Dupree,
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Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. A lot of times
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Speaker 1: individuals come across a dead body, they run the other way.
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Speaker 1: They do not want to be associated, they don't report
22:40
Speaker 1: it nothing. But this guy reported it exactly, Nancy, And
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Speaker 1: I mean we're grateful that they do, of course. And
22:47
Speaker 1: you know, most clandestine graves are at the most eighteen
22:51
Speaker 1: inches deep. People don't want to tape the time to
22:54
Speaker 1: bury a body deeply, and so being partially buried or
22:57
Speaker 1: partially covered, it's not really unusual, especially after so many years.
23:01
Speaker 1: And I want, I want to bring in the mind
23:03
Speaker 1: of a killer to this degree this scene was staged.
23:09
Speaker 1: What does that mean? That means really any contact movement, hiding,
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Speaker 1: concealing the body postmortem after death. For instance, everybody knows
23:22
Speaker 1: BTK buy torture killed Dennis Rader. He worked with a
23:27
Speaker 1: pound It was a dogcatcher. He had many many murder victims,
23:31
Speaker 1: and after he murdered them, he would dress them up,
23:35
Speaker 1: pose them, take pictures of them. Same thing with Ted Bundy.
23:40
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy would bathe some of the bodies. He would
23:45
Speaker 1: apply hair and make up to some of the bodies.
23:49
Speaker 1: Some he would decapitate, have sex with their remains, their head,
23:54
Speaker 1: their bathed body. He would go back and visit and
23:59
Speaker 1: visit and visit that the dead bodies, let one left
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Speaker 1: in the woods. He would go back repeatedly until the
24:06
Speaker 1: decomposition was to a point he could no longer go
24:09
Speaker 1: back for sexual gratification. All of that is staging. It
24:13
Speaker 1: can be putting a blanket over the body. I had
24:15
Speaker 1: one case where a mother was killed and the perp
24:20
Speaker 1: put a wicker basket trash can over her head. All
24:25
Speaker 1: of that is staging. And to you, Jill Carson, staging
24:30
Speaker 1: means you're connected to the person. A random killer kills
24:35
Speaker 1: and leaves. This guy burned the body, he tried to
24:40
Speaker 1: bury the body, He disposed of the body and a
24:43
Speaker 1: remote location. That's staging. Well, the body was probably fully buried.
24:48
Speaker 1: I mean it's then a wash, you get one good rain,
24:51
Speaker 1: and of course then it becomes exposed. Even though it
24:56
Speaker 1: was maybe a short time between the stuff and the
25:01
Speaker 1: recovery of the body. We don't know guys. Take a
25:03
Speaker 1: listen to our cut five. This is Linda Williams at
25:06
Speaker 1: Fox ten. You know this little girl was somebody's daughter,
25:10
Speaker 1: was somebody's sister, or this little rome mattered to somebody.
25:15
Speaker 1: And you know, it's wonderful to see this technology being
25:20
Speaker 1: used in this way to close these and answer these
25:23
Speaker 1: questions from from way back. But once we know her name,
25:26
Speaker 1: what's next? Why CSO donated one thousand dollars to further
25:30
Speaker 1: investigate this case. Then a crowdfunding website featured the little
25:35
Speaker 1: Miss Nobody case, and the four thousand dollars requested to
25:39
Speaker 1: search for further answers was raised in twenty four hours.
25:43
Speaker 1: More answers are coming on this little girl and perhaps justice.
25:48
Speaker 1: Once a little Miss Nobody's case was publicized, this chiles
25:55
Speaker 1: I did ay unknown for so long, everyone began clamoring
26:00
Speaker 1: to identify this little girl and solve the case. Take
26:05
Speaker 1: a listen to the Sheriff's office press conference our cutten.
26:09
Speaker 1: Authorities from Alama Gordo reached out to Yabapai County at
26:12
Speaker 1: some point, we believe in August, and in August said hey,
26:16
Speaker 1: we had an abduction. We think that your found little
26:21
Speaker 1: girl might be our kidnapped a little girl. But because
26:25
Speaker 1: of the age difference in the estimation, our estimated age
26:28
Speaker 1: was seven years old, Sharon was four years old, and
26:32
Speaker 1: she was taken she was about to turn five. That
26:35
Speaker 1: was one reason that they thought that this might not
26:38
Speaker 1: be her. The clothing description was different, and ultimately there
26:43
Speaker 1: was a footprint comparison made by the FBI back in
26:46
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty that said that the two were not the same.
26:51
Speaker 1: Footprint comparisons are not, obviously how we do things now,
26:55
Speaker 1: but that was probably the best technology they had available
26:58
Speaker 1: to him at the time. So our detectives looked at
27:02
Speaker 1: the possibility of this being Sharon Lee Gayegos, but then
27:06
Speaker 1: ultimately ruled that out and moved on to other suspects
27:09
Speaker 1: and other leagues. Jill Carson, I've had to use the
27:13
Speaker 1: footprint analysis before. Could you explain how it's done? Absolutely?
27:18
Speaker 1: There are a couple of ways. One is to use
27:20
Speaker 1: plaster of Paris and to take the footprint and then
27:24
Speaker 1: find previously existing footprints and compare them. Another one would
27:29
Speaker 1: be the actual physical print, like a fingerprint. Our toes
27:34
Speaker 1: and the bottom of our feats have these lines and
27:37
Speaker 1: these ridges as we have in fingerprints, and those can
27:40
Speaker 1: be compared to if there's sufficient remaining in order to
27:44
Speaker 1: do that. And in this case we learn detectives found
27:49
Speaker 1: out about a little girl who hadn't gone missing, but
27:52
Speaker 1: then ruled that out because of the age problem and
27:57
Speaker 1: the footprint. The age discrepance and the footprint seemingly didn't work.
28:03
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut to Fox ten. Lieutenant
28:07
Speaker 1: Tom Bolt says the case made no progress until twenty
28:10
Speaker 1: eighteen when authorities exhumed her body to get a DNA sample.
28:13
Speaker 1: When you have remains that are that old, at that time,
28:17
Speaker 1: the best sample we were able to get was an
28:19
Speaker 1: incomplete sample. Now YCSO has partnered with authrom Incorporated for
28:23
Speaker 1: use of their private forensic lab, a better sample and
28:26
Speaker 1: better technology, maybe, key Bolt says, familial DNA could lead
28:30
Speaker 1: investigators to a close relative of little miss Nobody, and
28:34
Speaker 1: tracking that person down could provide answers. Hopefully they'll be
28:37
Speaker 1: able to, you know, if we get them identified through
28:41
Speaker 1: that familial database, so be able to call us and
28:47
Speaker 1: be able to tell us some of the background story
28:49
Speaker 1: on what happened to her and how she ended up
28:50
Speaker 1: out there. Now, the idea of a DNA possibly extracting DNA.
29:00
Speaker 1: Is it possible? Can it be done? Take a listen
29:05
Speaker 1: to this. Now we will finally know her name, thanks
29:09
Speaker 1: in part to DNA technology. Well, there's been incredible advances
29:13
Speaker 1: in DNA technology that allow forensic technicians to extract DNA
29:18
Speaker 1: from bones and teeth that are more likely to be
29:20
Speaker 1: found in very old cases. In this case, the little
29:24
Speaker 1: girl's body was exhoomed in twenty eighteen. Tuesday, you have
29:28
Speaker 1: a Pike County Sheriff's office with an outside DNA lab
29:31
Speaker 1: will announce who this child was. It's amazing to me
29:37
Speaker 1: the way the case is unfolding. You're just hearing our
29:42
Speaker 1: friend Linda Williams. Now take a listen to Joe Dana twelve.
29:49
Speaker 1: Back in January twelve, News spoke to Lieutenant Tom Bolts
29:52
Speaker 1: about the case. Bolts teamed up with the DNA lab
29:55
Speaker 1: Oathram Incorporated in an attempt to link the girl to
29:58
Speaker 1: living relatives. DNA taken from the girl's remains are like
30:01
Speaker 1: a fingerprint that can be compared to the DNA in
30:04
Speaker 1: existing databases. In Sunday's announcement, the Sheriff's office thanked the
30:08
Speaker 1: lab for conducting the analysis. A mystery appears to be
30:12
Speaker 1: solved thanks to a modern investigative tool. Whether the girl
30:16
Speaker 1: has living relatives who finally have closure about her disappearance,
30:20
Speaker 1: we will find out this week when investigators provide more details,
30:25
Speaker 1: but from what we know, another family is left devastated.
30:30
Speaker 1: Remember the little girl that went missing, Sharon Lee Gallegos
30:38
Speaker 1: between three and six years old out to Brianna Whitney
30:43
Speaker 1: joining US CBS five and three tell me about Sharon's disappearance.
30:50
Speaker 1: So authorities had to basically work backwards with Sharon because
30:57
Speaker 1: all of the information from nineteen sixty at the By
31:00
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's office and anywhere else was not digitized, so
31:04
Speaker 1: they had to basically go back and rebuild this case
31:06
Speaker 1: to find out about her disappearance. We ended up learning
31:10
Speaker 1: that Sharon Lee Gegos was four years old. She lived
31:14
Speaker 1: in Alama Gordo, New Mexico with her family, and she
31:17
Speaker 1: had been outside playing with her cousins and another young
31:22
Speaker 1: child in July of nineteen sixty and that's when authorities
31:28
Speaker 1: tell us Akacar pulled up and abducted Sharon and drove
31:35
Speaker 1: away with her and at the time and Alama Gordo.
31:38
Speaker 1: Her disappearance was all over the newspapers and news outlets
31:43
Speaker 1: in New Mexico at the time, and it did make
31:46
Speaker 1: its way to Arizona, but that's when they decided or
31:50
Speaker 1: discovered that the footprint didn't match and they ruled Sharon out.
31:56
Speaker 1: Brianna Whitney, how far is it between the point where
32:01
Speaker 1: Sharon was abducted and little miss Nobody was found? Hours?
32:05
Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking Ala mc gordo, that's in New
32:07
Speaker 1: Mexico and her body was found in northwest Arizona. And
32:14
Speaker 1: you know, in the West, these states are pretty big,
32:17
Speaker 1: so we're talking hours and hours between where she was
32:21
Speaker 1: abducted to where that body was found. You know, it
32:25
Speaker 1: brings to mind a case that we covered a while back.
32:29
Speaker 1: It was the case of Samantha Running, a little girl
32:33
Speaker 1: about three years old who was playing in the front
32:36
Speaker 1: yard of her grandma. The grandmother was inside in the
32:42
Speaker 1: kitchen looking out the window and sees a part come
32:47
Speaker 1: up and take Samantha and take off with her in
32:51
Speaker 1: a car. I've spoken with Samantha's mother or Aaron Running
32:55
Speaker 1: many many times, and just to think how close grandmother
33:00
Speaker 1: was to Samantha and the perp got away with her.
33:05
Speaker 1: Samantha was killed. But it reminds me of these circumstances.
33:11
Speaker 1: And at the time, many people believe that Sharon's family
33:16
Speaker 1: was at fault for letting her play in the yard,
33:19
Speaker 1: but she was playing with other children, family was at home.
33:25
Speaker 1: And especially in nineteen sixty, who would have imagined, mars
33:30
Speaker 1: Nicks that someone would take little Sharon and kidnap her
33:36
Speaker 1: and she would never be seen alive again. You know,
33:39
Speaker 1: time were so different than asa we know, and people
33:42
Speaker 1: were much more trusting, they were much more secure. Who
33:47
Speaker 1: would have thought somebody would take Debbie fifty feet away
33:50
Speaker 1: from where she lived, especially when she came out of
33:53
Speaker 1: the laundry map where there were several girls in there.
33:56
Speaker 1: But whoever did raise enough to do it? Which is
33:59
Speaker 1: always brought me to the question did she know her abductor?
34:04
Speaker 1: And I think she did, and I think that's why
34:07
Speaker 1: she went to the vehicle. But people that do these
34:12
Speaker 1: clowns are brazen, They are very brave. And yeah, it's
34:18
Speaker 1: a great question, and I really don't know how to
34:20
Speaker 1: answer you. And you know what, Morris, next, everything you
34:23
Speaker 1: just said applies to the case of the missing taught
34:26
Speaker 1: Sharon Lee Gallegos as well. But now back to little
34:31
Speaker 1: Miss Nobody. Can you imagine your child goes missing and
34:36
Speaker 1: you find out about a body being found states miles away,
34:42
Speaker 1: and then you find out it's not her, and for
34:46
Speaker 1: these remains to be called to be dubbed little miss
34:50
Speaker 1: Nobody Nobody? She was nobody for so long detectives did
34:57
Speaker 1: it all. Take a listen to our at eleven. We
35:02
Speaker 1: had to piece a lot of what happened together from
35:06
Speaker 1: newspaper reports at the time. The FBI worked on this case.
35:10
Speaker 1: Ala mc gordo PD worked on this case. You have
35:12
Speaker 1: By County Sheriff's office worked on this case, but unfortunately
35:16
Speaker 1: those reports are not around anymore. So a lot of
35:20
Speaker 1: it that we've been able to formulate, you know, what
35:24
Speaker 1: happened to her is from old newspaper articles that we
35:28
Speaker 1: found on the internet. We still have work to do
35:33
Speaker 1: in this case. We would still like to identify the
35:35
Speaker 1: people who took her. Finally, between DNA technology specifically at
35:41
Speaker 1: author Am Inc. And hard work by detectives, there's an answer.
35:48
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eight. The Sheriff's pressor.
35:51
Speaker 1: We had contact with Nick mc National Center from misseexploited
35:56
Speaker 1: children and in twenty fifteen they offered to fund the
36:01
Speaker 1: exhimation of little Miss Nobody and fund the DNA extraction
36:06
Speaker 1: and testing that was done in November of twenty fifteen. Unfortunately,
36:11
Speaker 1: DNA science at that time, as advanced as it was,
36:14
Speaker 1: wasn't advanced enough to give us an identity. About three
36:18
Speaker 1: weeks ago we got a call from David Middleton with
36:21
Speaker 1: oath from Labs. They had reached out to us about
36:25
Speaker 1: four or five months before that and said that they
36:28
Speaker 1: would like to try and get her identified and try
36:32
Speaker 1: and help us with the case. They offered to do
36:35
Speaker 1: so with crowdfunding. These things are very expensive. We ended
36:39
Speaker 1: up partnering with them and doing that. We got that
36:44
Speaker 1: phone call about three weeks ago, maybe four weeks ago
36:46
Speaker 1: now saying that they were one certain that that little
36:51
Speaker 1: Miss Nobody was sharing Lee Gayegos. It's amazing to me
36:56
Speaker 1: after all that the family Galgos went through to be
37:02
Speaker 1: told this wasn't her. Just ten days a body was
37:07
Speaker 1: found after Sharon goes missing from the yard all this time,
37:12
Speaker 1: it was in fact her. It was Sharon. Little miss
37:17
Speaker 1: Nobody is Sharon Gallegos straight out to doctor Kristen Middleman,
37:23
Speaker 1: Chief development Officer, author from inc. DNA solves dot com.
37:28
Speaker 1: How did you do it? So that's the key, Nancy
37:31
Speaker 1: DNA technology is alike all these other technologies. Two people
37:36
Speaker 1: can't do the same job. And awesome we built off
37:40
Speaker 1: from in twenty eighteen so that we could adapt the
37:43
Speaker 1: most powerful technology that exists as far as sequencing on
37:47
Speaker 1: Earth too forensics, and no one else has ever adopted
37:51
Speaker 1: that technology for forensics in the past, and it allows
37:54
Speaker 1: us to identify people that otherwise are missed using these
37:58
Speaker 1: other DNA technologies. And that's exactly what happened in this case.
38:02
Speaker 1: I think part of the story that hasn't been told
38:05
Speaker 1: yet and is that it actually went to an advanced
38:09
Speaker 1: DNA lab and this process. In fact, there was no
38:14
Speaker 1: funding because the funding was used to test that this
38:17
Speaker 1: other lab in twenty nineteen and the result was incorrect
38:23
Speaker 1: and Sharon Dilegas was not identified. And that is the issue.
38:29
Speaker 1: Using the wrong DNA technology actually leaves victims unidentified, and
38:34
Speaker 1: it leaves perpetrators out there to commit more crimes, and
38:38
Speaker 1: that to me is a crime. Well, what is the
38:40
Speaker 1: wrong DNA technology? You know a lot of people don't
38:42
Speaker 1: know right from wrong when it comes to DNA secreencing.
38:45
Speaker 1: I really feel that when you're working with forensic evidence,
38:49
Speaker 1: especially because every time you run a reaction, you consume
38:52
Speaker 1: that evidence and potentially consume someone's last chance of being
38:56
Speaker 1: identified or being able to get justice. Think that when
39:00
Speaker 1: it comes to forensic evidence, you have to work with
39:02
Speaker 1: a lab that can do this entire process from beginning
39:06
Speaker 1: to end, that are experts in this field and that
39:09
Speaker 1: have adopted their technology for forensics. You cannot work with
39:13
Speaker 1: a medical lab. You cannot work with a consumer lab.
39:16
Speaker 1: Their processes are built for a different purpose. Medical tests
39:21
Speaker 1: are built for fresh DNA. We swab, we have a
39:24
Speaker 1: renewable source, or we give a blood. It's very different.
39:29
Speaker 1: Forensic DNA and medical DNA can't be more opposite. We
39:33
Speaker 1: have to have processes that are built for trace amounts
39:37
Speaker 1: of DNA DNA that's super contaminated, it's super degraded DNA
39:42
Speaker 1: that has a slew of issues that you would never
39:45
Speaker 1: see in a medical lab. All of us here at
39:48
Speaker 1: author and most of us I mean I'm at David
39:50
Speaker 1: the CEO and a DNA parallelab twenty two years ago.
39:54
Speaker 1: Most of us here in AUTHORROM are medical experts. We
39:57
Speaker 1: actually help built a lot of this technology. We were
40:00
Speaker 1: part of the first human GINO project thousand human GINO projects.
40:03
Speaker 1: We actually worked with this on creating the standards that
40:07
Speaker 1: is used by the SBA today in order to deploy
40:10
Speaker 1: the technology in medicine. We understand it, but that technology
40:14
Speaker 1: was not suffice for forensic evidence. That's why we built Awesome.
40:18
Speaker 1: We had to tailor it so that we could work
40:21
Speaker 1: with a type of inputs that come in from forensic investigation.
40:24
Speaker 1: And thank Heaven you did take a listen to our
40:27
Speaker 1: cut seven Stephanie Bennett Fox ten. It was a day
40:31
Speaker 1: of emotion and closure as law enforcement, DNA experts, and
40:35
Speaker 1: family finally shared the news with the public. I always
40:38
Speaker 1: hope I would find her by doing DNA testing, do
40:43
Speaker 1: you know, find that she was still alive, But at
40:46
Speaker 1: least we know now Moncy Holdrea is her niece. She
40:50
Speaker 1: was a very fiery little girl from what I understand,
40:52
Speaker 1: and I just love to play and I wish that
40:55
Speaker 1: my mother was still alive to share in the news.
40:59
Speaker 1: And at the same time, I know, you know, I
41:02
Speaker 1: truly believe that she has already been reunited with Sharon.
41:05
Speaker 1: Now Drea, who you just heard from. It tells me
41:07
Speaker 1: they're hoping to do something to honor this little girl's
41:11
Speaker 1: life with the rest of the family. For now, like
41:13
Speaker 1: you said, no one has been charged with this murder,
41:17
Speaker 1: and they wanted to say a special thank you to
41:19
Speaker 1: the law enforcement and the community. They say this wouldn't
41:21
Speaker 1: have been possible with the community raising money to solve
41:25
Speaker 1: this case in the first place. It is consolation that
41:29
Speaker 1: this little girl has been joined with her family in heaven,
41:34
Speaker 1: but now the search for the killer. Nancy Grace crime
41:38
Speaker 1: story signing up Goodbye, f