Latest / Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025 / The insight gained from my involvement with victims of Nathan Chasing Horse
Transcript
- Marina Crane: Good morning, it's May 19th and I published a podcast earlier on ⁓ systemic racism and ⁓ that was ⁓ with an audience of immigrants ⁓ who wanted to know some history about Calgary. So they invited me. Now, ⁓ I do a few things within the community, not within Sioux, Tena, but within the city of Calgary. ⁓ like tonight, I'll have a meeting with artists. We usually have, this is going to be our last dinner ⁓ and it's been amazing. There are so many things that... I try to keep myself as active as I can. And at the same time, too, I want to make sure my podcast is insightful. So a lot of times, you know, I've met various people and ⁓ again, too, when I'm talking to victims of violence, unless they're willing to disclose ⁓ personal deep information, ⁓ then I'll publish it. Over the course of time, I've never really given names. Sometimes, too, when I started writing on my blog, I was asked if I could keep the names of the children private, so I've done that. But a lot of times, too, they need to have that privacy. You know, people want to know who the victims of Nathan Chasing Horse are. And even within my community, like I know these young women, but I haven't talked with them and I don't feel like it's my place to talk to them. ⁓ Like I said, I'm not a therapist or a social worker and I don't think you need to know their names as well. I could briefly talk about their connection with Nathan Chasing Horse and how they first met him. that's, I think, the guilt in the sense because I did set up the Wulwipi ceremonies for their moms and them. ⁓ like, again, I couldn't help. ⁓ I couldn't help or say anything to even rescue them because I keep on thinking and seeing Ren Leone as an eight-year-old in our elementary school gym, standing there with ⁓ Nathan and his entourage and her mother. And what I knew then, I couldn't even approach them. Like I just... I knew he'd lie and there'd be an argument happening. So I think that's the majority of what I think I've heard over the years is that when people did confront him at powwows or at community gatherings, there was like, there were like fights, like arguments and yelling and screaming. And he even got kicked out of one of the powwows in Saskatchewan. So there's been a lot of ⁓ angst or lot of anger and conflict. when it comes to ⁓ people trying to ⁓ get people aware of what Nathan Chasing Horse was doing in our indigenous communities. It wasn't for the lack of trying. I think it was just the whole nature of conflict or that fawning. People didn't want a cause of ruckus. Like I said, when I saw him with that child, I didn't want a cause of ruckus because I knew I wouldn't. even stand a chance ⁓ arguing or anything because he was invited. So that means he had a crowd in our community supporting him by then. And ⁓ the thing about it is like, don't know anything about what happened to Ren and her mother afterwards. I can only speculate. And again, I think if people were actually at the trial and listened to her testimony, her witness statements, even her mother's, I think you'd get a gist of what she went through. And again, too, that's what I'm saying with the victims of Nathan chasing horse. the children that left with him and came back as women, unless they publish it or unless they've been interviewed and it's a public notice, then anybody can look that up. And from what I understand too, is like there have been other people who have put podcasts out there prior to me. The information is out there for you to grasp and take in, but it's the nature of the beast. It's like politics and politicians and you ⁓ want to ask them for help or something and you have to go through this whole gambit of questions and... people and it becomes public and then you're going, why did I even bother? I think it's the same in the same sense too. It's harder for victims of violence because you're going to be running up against a lot of people who have their own opinions of, ⁓ you know, what actually happened. I don't know if I will ever be able to talk personally about ⁓ like some of the victims that I met, like Sierra. I can only say that she's a beautiful young woman and has a lovely family. And ⁓ the first time I saw her was at the courthouse. And after the sentencing was delayed, I saw her crying in her mother's arms and it just broke my heart. And I have talked with Lynette, her mother, and we've had long discussions. I'm just amazed at... And I've said this to the two women, just feel overwhelmed at just the process and the connections and the networking they've had to do for the past 15 years. it, it, I like, I didn't know the extent of the timeline and, but I, but I did know, ⁓ Lynette had tried to reach out to me and we did eventually connect. So it was important for me to actually meet her in person as well as get a gist of exactly like, ⁓ where I stood or how people saw me in, in like, or even if they even knew who I was. So those were burning questions for me as well as just the whole nature of the relationship or the community that they made. It's like they say like he had 300 followers. like that's a pretty well organized indigenous community. Mind you, I think the supporters were all over the place, so I don't think it was in one group. I don't think he had that much power over people. But I do... ⁓ know that it's important if you really wanted to ⁓ find out further information about the victims, it's on YouTube. can go on YouTube and you can listen to them. As well as I think there are about three or four documentaries out there, ⁓ American, Canadian and So you can actually Google it or search the internet or YouTube and find this information for yourself. So ⁓ that's ⁓ up to you to do. My podcast has been just about ⁓ my experience with systemic racism, gender violence, ⁓ just the whole nature of why we got into this situation or why is it that for Indigenous women that we have to battle, like we get this battle fatigue, like about ⁓ justifying who we are and why do we have to justify who we are? This is our personal lives and yet for some God forsaken reason we've been pushed into a public light. When we become victims that's what happens. You've had a private life and all of sudden, wham bang, you're pushed into a private, you're pushed into a public spotlight. but it takes courage. And even being pushed into the public means you're going to be ostracized, you're going be criticized, you're going to be, there's going to be so much that you're going to be combating. And that's, that's, I think the nature of my podcast is just the reality of how hard it is for indigenous women to come forward and lodge a complaint against the perpetrator. And even though you think you have support, it's the quality of support that you have that's vitally important. Now, ⁓ I don't know if Lynette will ever hear this podcast, but for me, I just want people to realize, like, this woman is outstanding. When I talk about the quality of support that Indigenous women need, I think Lynette is the expert on this. I mean, the quality of support she gave her daughter, not only that, but to Melissa and Wren and other people, other women, like from in California, Montana, Arizona, New Mexico, Lynette networked. As much as I can say, I have my podcast. ⁓ I don't think the dynamics of just the nitty gritty of ⁓ having some discourse and dialogue and just the support because it's not easy. mean, my own personal experience is nothing compared to the dynamics of what Lynette had to do. And kudos to her. The reality though is like a hard lesson. This is a hard lesson. And for anybody who sees Lynette, go up and give her a hug or just be there and just be grateful that... I don't know how to express it. I just know that the lateral violence that this young woman has experienced continues to experience and still remains supportive. And that's the whole point. I think when you have a group of women who support each other, no matter the, we'll say the tornado or the storm or the angst or the bombardment of lateral violence, the verbal roughage or call it tripe that comes out ⁓ in the discourse of who said what she said, they said, all that gossipy stuff, like I just can't even comprehend. I mean, I know I'm not saying I'm perfect and I'm oblivious to this. I've had to make my own sacrifices too, all because of this learning lesson, this learning curve about lateral violence. That's why I'm praising Lynette for the support she gave her daughter and just the fact that after the sentencing, the other women from the different... areas ⁓ did a Zoom with Lynette and again the integrity and just the moral support they gave each other is vital in just healing, the healing process because a lot of times ⁓ therapists and social workers and psychiatrists are they're not indigenous. They don't know a damn thing about what it's like to live in a on a reservation or on a reserve, they don't know what it's like to live in indigenous community. And I think that's the same thing too, when people say, well, why did it take so long for people to ⁓ catch nascent chasing wars? Like I said, I don't think people realize just the struggle, just the conflict, just the perseverance of trying to get this man caught. Eventually he did get caught, but it had to be done in Las Vegas. Numerous places, like even in my community in B.C., Saskatchewan, Ontario. It was just a matter of time. mean, were leagues of Indigenous women in Saskatchewan who were rallying to try and go to Ottawa to get this man banished from coming into Canada. Like that's how much Indigenous communities knew how much of a predator he was. Like, can you believe that? I mean, like, you look at, you look at Sierra, she reported what happened to her to the police and, and they just like turned a blind eye. Like it took 14 years for her to get her day in court in Las Vegas. Like imagine that. Like, you know, I think, ⁓ people immigrants or non-indigenous people or whoever who aren't indigenous don't realize the the the cusp of it like the reality of of advocacy or like the What is it that? Battle fatigue it's not just indigenous women. It's the men to her were fighting to get this man caught ⁓ I just, like I said, I don't think people get the gravity of what it took to have support and to be there for each other. ⁓ I'm not saying people are perfect. There are conflicts with anything. again, my hat's off to Lynette for... ⁓ just being a strong individual who, like she knew Nathan since she was 14 years old. I made a comment to her about his psychic abilities and don't get me wrong, all human beings have psychic abilities. That's just my point of view. I know some people are skeptical because maybe for religious dogma or some, I don't know, for some reason people are close to their own abilities but ⁓ I just believe that ⁓ There's a great mystery out there. Why deny it? So I had a cousin talk to me about ⁓ bad medicine and good medicine. And see, this is the superstition, or call it superstition from a non-Indigenous point of view or colonial point of view. ⁓ But yet, I think in religious dogma, think ⁓ religious people ⁓ do have some sort of commandment where it's like, ⁓ like the whole commandments are all like, cured to, you know, treating each other with some compassion and humanity. But in the whole gist of it, there's the reality that there are people who are jealous. There are people who will pray for bad things to happen to people that they're jealous about. Or even if, you know, to pray bad for people who they can't control. So there's so much, ⁓ pettiness. But the reality of it, it's also based on trauma or some illusion or delusional thinking of somebody that, like because it's unrealistic, but yet they still have this notion that they need to pray for, you know, something bad to happen to another person. Now, I wasn't raised that way. I think most Indigenous people aren't raised that way. I do think that somehow, somewhere, someplace, people got the notion that they could pray for bad things to happen. And again, maybe you can see it in, you know, like, we'll even look at the religion, you know, like they crucified, they crucified a person. They crucified a person, what, because they were jealous, because they were praying bad for him? So, you know, history does have its historical moments, and ⁓ we haven't changed much. We haven't, I mean, that was just what, couple of thousand years ago. But you know, we're still, we're still not as evolved as we think we are. And I think that's why, like when it comes to ⁓ what people do to other people ⁓ at a psychological level is very critical. That's why when... I talk about good or bad medicine or I talk about hung prayers and things that might seem really abnormal. I'm talking in layman's terms. I'm not talking in psychological terms or jargon, but I do try and slip in the odd academic word once in a while ⁓ so that I am reaching ⁓ non-Indigenous people. So ⁓ the whole point that I'm trying to get at is that You know, when my cousin says to me, she says, Marina, do you believe in bad medicine? She says, she got injured. Okay. And she was saying that her former daughter-in-law said, somebody put bad medicine on you. And she said, do you believe in that? And I said, it's when people talk bad about you. I said, if you believe that. ⁓ If you believe that and you take it into your being that you're that bad person they're talking about, then yes, you are succumbing to those bad or those prayers, how people pray bad for you. I said, if you succumb to that and you hear it and like lateral violence, then what is it that... What is it that you're trying to understand? Like my cousin, said, you've heard that people pray for bad things to people. And she says, yes, but I don't believe in good or bad medicine. said, you do understand that people can get jealous, right? And she said, yes. I said, well, it all depends on how you. how you interpret it. said, you know, if you believe that you know your foot is injured because someone prayed bad for you or you just accidentally hurt yourself but yet the healing process of what your body has to go through is determined on how well you look after yourself. all these, again, why am I talking about this? Okay, ⁓ I use an example, I said 20 years ago I didn't give Nathan Chasing Horse tobacco because I didn't trust him. But at the same time too I didn't know how much he was intimidated by me. But just the mere fact that I was writing something on a blog and the fact that for all those decades that people would once in a while go on my blog I had people saying, is this blog still active? And I'd say yes. I mean, there were some years or months that there was no activity. But the reality of it is I could sense that ⁓ people didn't trust me, like within my community. understand this, there were a lot of followers in my community, members of my family, members of my community. So basically, if they chose to not interact with me, then I was wondering, what's going on? You know, I never questioned the followers. I never questioned like, okay, you know, they're collecting tithing or they're donating thousands of dollars, like $10,000 for his prayers. I mean, it's one thing to give him a 6,000 for a WP ceremony, but just the reality of how many people he was able to manipulate money from. And here I am in my community. advocate, against him. You know, like I'm going, you know, take modern medicine and take spirituality and find balance in both. Don't just gravitate to one. Do your homework and go shopping. Like even when you go to for a therapist, go shopping. Just don't pick one. Feel, pick one that's comfortable with you, that you're comfortable with, that you can trust. But for my cousin, I said to her, people do pray for bad things to happen to people. I said, it's not only that, it's the lateral violence. I said, for 20 years, Nathan Chasing Horse was laterally violent to me. just the reality of the impact of those women coming up and giving me a hug and shaking my hand because they knew who I was. That's how horrible this man was that they knew who I was because he told them not to read my blog. And even though I try and tell people in my community or even you as my audience, even my cousin, I said, you can sense when somebody just hates you when someone just wants to hurt your reputation. You can sense it. It's just out there. It's like, you know, it's just this energy. And I use the word energy because if ⁓ I took, if I believed what he said about me, yes, it would have really like I would have, said, ⁓ yeah, this is, you know, he, don't know. I like, like that's why I'm trying to advocate and just praise Lynette because No matter how hard and no matter what he said about her, I don't know. I don't know how he turned his followers against her or all these women who ⁓ came forward to try and prosecute him. Like, see, I have my community. I have people who can talk about me behind my back, try and get information from me. ⁓ petty stuff. And I say petty because I want you to understand the gravity of what these women had to go through, the courage that it took for them to do what they had to do. And like Lynette had said, she says, I feel like I was obligated because I knew there were other victims out there. And for me with my blog, was publishing that there were other victims out out here. And ⁓ I just want to say that if you're advocating and you're looking for justice, because throughout the years I've met various women who were so angry at their perpetrators and advocating this and that. And again, they're angry. They're going through a process. They're reactive. There has to be some point where healing takes place and you have a sense of closure. And that's what I hoped with Lynette and Sierra and the other victims. I know for some, it's going to be a little harder. It's going to be a hell of a lot harder because again, I can only relate to something that happened to me, ⁓ geez, 49 years ago, almost 50 years ago. And even that, like that's how old Nathan chasing horse is. Okay, when I talk about trauma and intergenerational trauma, I'm coming from a point of view where I've talked to a lot of ⁓ women and men, and I've seen the actions of individuals. I've seen the repercussions of ⁓ what happens with high-risk children, high-risk teenagers. the reality or the denial that, ⁓ well, we don't want them to learn the hard way. yet, you know, life isn't easy. And I do believe if we take a look at how we learn to trust or not trust. Now, why am I going around in circles talking about stuff? Well, I think a lot of times when people come into Canada, or just non-Indigenous people who may have just come across my podcast, are wondering about Indigenous people, and they just think, ⁓ well, they're Canadian or they're American. yes, but there's a history. And it's because of that history that... There's certain notions of privilege that people think Indigenous people have. maybe, who knows? just know there's a crisis out there. And it's a crisis ⁓ towards Indigenous women and girls and children. I try to talk about it, I try to pinpoint it, and yet unless you're actually within a community, a collective holistic community, like it's one thing for me to talk about Lynette and her community, but her community is so scattered like in California, like I said, different parts of the states, but yet it's impactful, okay? I don't want to minimize it. This is impactful. She had to have that and people need to have that. But if you can have that within your own community, then it becomes a very powerful tool in healing. It's a matriarchal society. I I sensed it with my grandmothers, I sensed it with my aunts, and their Dakota Sioux. So my definition of matriarchy, to be born and raised in it, is part of that healing process. So when I talk to immigrants about just life, like what it meant for me to be proud to be an Indigenous person. I say, you know, if my parents hadn't gone to South America and my father hadn't talked about Machu Picchu or my mother hadn't talked about, you know, being shot at by rebels while they were trying to show a movie at a university, all the dangers of life that they took traveling on trains with 250 Americans and other people in the world going into South America were... some of the airports all they had was a tower, wooden tower. Just the reality of the hunger and the filth and the poverty and the thousands and thousands of Indigenous people who all spoke Spanish. So it was just an adventure in itself. But hearing that and knowing, like my mother describing, seeing seven foot tall Incas. in the museums like they're skeletons and seeing like they were doing brain surgery. Just the reality of the contributions of vegetables and food products that's been based off of the agriculture of Indigenous peoples that have contributed throughout the world for the past 500 years. This is why I can't understand like white privilege. What, you had the Roman Empire and all these marbles and coliseums and hey, what did you contribute? Sure as hell it wasn't tomatoes. Or rice? What was it? You just contribute grain? See, corn, beans, like you do the research. The indigenous populations of the Americas contributed so much to agriculture in the world. And yet, for 500 years, it's been silenced. It's been oppressed. We've been looked down as our culture being matriarchal. It is less than. Why is it less than? You know, as women, we try to look after our communities, feed our children, and in society, ⁓ that's the whole nature. I even, like even when they went to India, when my parents went to India and the stories of when John F. Kennedy was assassinated and my mother said, she said, I looked out and I just saw all of these people just falling to the ground and praying. They were so scared it was the end of the world. They were just waiting for the bomb to drop in their city. Just like that. Just like that. I can't even comprehend that. Just the nature of what's happening in the world today, the thousands and thousands of atomic bombs that every country has, almost every country, which is mind-staggering. This is what it's come to. And because of that, here we have patriarchy, very fragile. We have... ⁓ white privilege just very fragile. The world is so much smaller. it's like white privilege is being absorbed by brown and black skinned And the fragility of like, oh my goodness, we're going to lose this. I'm going to lose what? What are you losing? You know, when they say, our history, well, what history? You know, this is why, like, when I hear the modern news about, ⁓ well, how many Jews were killed in the Second World War, I'm going, you don't get it. Look at Portuguese, Dutch, French, ⁓ Spanish, French. The five conquering races in the Americas killed over a million people. the first 100 years, five generations of children. Is that in the history books? Can you imagine how many, that's like what, for 100 years, that's like over million people dying every year, every year for 100 years. And yet all we focus on is World War II and six million Jews. What? How many years was the war? Even before the World War II started, they were already killing Jewish people. So, look at South Africa, or look at, you know, how many black people they murdered. So, when it comes to humanity and us having our ability to press a button and have an atomic war, because why? we want to prove that we're better than another person or that we want to pray bad for another person. You you get a sense like, what is it all for? And so when, I think in matriarchy, when you say, well, what is it all for? It's for the children. Patriarchy, it's like the woman serves the man. In matriarchy, it's the other way around because it's the woman who is creating the society and the woman who's nurturing the children. And it's also the women who go through menopause and who have lessons to teach the younger ones. So in the fragility of patriarchy and just the things that are happening in the world today, ⁓ See, this is the whole problem, even when it came to Nathan Chasing Horse and the fact that he was so patriarchal. Like here is a Dakota man who was supposed to be raised in a matriarchal society, Sundance, a weepy ceremony, all those rituals and ceremonies that were handed down by a woman, white buffalo calf woman, thousands of years before the white man even came to the Americas. That's why in my own opinion, as much as white people and other indigenous people who've lost their identity, who are patriarchal, not matriarchal, want to say that white buffalo calf woman is still coming or the signs are here. I'm going, no, that's no. I believe she already came. The signs were there. They killed over a million every year for 100 years. How diabolical is that in terms of prophecies or foretelling about ritual and ceremony and holding onto these so people like me could be alive 500 years later? People like me could be alive 500 years later. I have 6 % European blood in me. 6 %! The bloodline, my bloodline, 93 % indigenous came from all the ceremonies and rituals that my ancestors were taught thousands of years ago. That's why when I talk to immigrants, I'm going, we have been practicing matriarchy for thousands of years. And just for people to gravitate to white buffalo calf woman now. Just like, like it's like who discovered it? White privilege in the academic books of the universities, like in the past, 150 years? Like, like how insinuate, how diabolical, how critical, like the privilege, the like that they can do this, they can change the history, they can rewrite everything. And, and to what? You know, it's up to our young people to have critical thinking skills. And that's why I think it's important for me to do a podcast so I can have people actually do some critical thinking in what is it that we're doing and why are we doing what we're doing. It's not just a question of, ⁓ well, you need a job to survive and food on the table. Yes. But you also need to live. in a community to function and help each other. When I was a teenager, ⁓ the first time I ever heard about suicide, one of the young men that I grew up with, he was 15, killed himself. At the same time, that same year, my uncle shot himself, killed himself. So as a teenager, as a kid, I never knew people. would kill themselves. Now today, like even within the year or just in the past 10 years, the amount of young people who've died and continue dying from accidental overdose, alcohol and drug cirrhosis. Like sometimes when I hear about it and I think and I know these people and I'm going, I didn't know they were drinking that bad. You know, I think sometimes I'm naive about things too, like that the addiction is so overwhelming that people will even hide what they're drinking in front of you. I've had that done to me before. I've had people who've had addictions and I didn't even know, you know, how enmeshed they were in their addiction. And again, maybe... Maybe that's the whole point of the podcast too, is that for people to understand, I'm Indigenous. Don't think like, don't think like every day there's alcohol in my life or, you know, that I'm panhandling on the streets or whatever stereotype people have about Indigenous people. Don't think that way. Please don't. Because really, when people immigrate into Canada and they go and they see Skid Row and they see homeless Indigenous people, like that's just a small percentage. The majority of ⁓ Indigenous people that are actively working and contributing to society, it's like I kept on saying at the beginning, maybe a couple of years ago, even when I was doing some social media was saying there's a renaissance happening with our young people and then there was an influx of TikTok influencers and then this past week there was, I was on Instagram and I had met some ⁓ classical indigenous musicians and composers at the BAM Center and one of them ⁓ died in a car accident on Saturday. 45 years old. Just devastated. Just... Like the contributions this young woman had made and would have made, and just the impact of what it is to be who she was. Like that's the hope that I have for the people who listen to my podcast is to carry that young woman's life, who she was and how she lived her life. is the renaissance of our young people. Her name was Chris Dirksen. Part of the group was like Ian Cushions, Jessica McMahon, Sonny Ray Daychief, and what's his name? I keep on forgetting his name and yet at the same time, he's, anyway, they're, It's like, just, ⁓ like even when I say verbs and non verbs and pronouns and all that, like transparency, diversity, equity, you gotta live it. And this young woman did that. She lived it. I like it's, it's heartbreaking that she's gone. I know all the people who, like Jeremy Dutcher is one of the other group members that I had met. I don't know, it's sad, really. Just all these young people and what they're contributing to Indigenous culture because they have allies and cohorts. I'm trying to get across, I'm an elder. That was, we didn't have that when I was a teenager or in my 30s. We didn't. So the fact that there are young people doing the work they're doing is immense and you can't undo it. As much as, as much as people still spew hate to indigenous people, as much as people pray for bad things to happen to indigenous people, we are still here. We are still here and we've been here for thousands and thousands of years. The prayers of our ancestors has power. The prayers of our ancestors are here so that we can understand how to treat each other. You got to trust your gut. Listen when people talk about you know people if you if you generally respect yourself and Like my my my uncles and my aunties they you know just tell the truth Tell the truth and and This is what my late mother said she says you know when when the Sioux people traveled she said they came into Alberta and they encountered the Tsutina. This is where I grew up. They encountered the Tsutina. She said, the Tsutina were fierce people. They had rings in their nose. Now the Sioux people knew when they came into the Dupu-Turu tribes of Blackfeet Cree Tsutina, when they come in and they introduce themselves with sign language, because they don't speak the same language. But they had to address themselves. And they had to stand up and say who they were and where they came from. And they knew, even if they said who they were and where they came from, that they could be killed. They still had to stand up and say who they were. So you've got to be honest. That's how integrated, that's how much Like the effort, the effort to reach out and help each other, the effort to connect to another human being, even if that human being is going to kill you just by addressing who you are. See, I, the genocide, the amount of killing that took place, it just... The whole impact. So that's why, you when people talk about good or bad medicine and how people pray bad for people. Yes, for 500 years we've had ⁓ Europeans, like I said, French, Dutch, Portuguese, English. Did I say French? French? Five anyway. Spanish. Praying for bad things to happen to us and actually doing it. We're still, there are still people out there praying bad for us. Especially praying bad for Indigenous women and girls and children. And they take them into their foster homes, teach them their language, whatever language it is in that foster home. Never thinking that these Indigenous children are not, you know, like that they're less than. No, we don't have sovereignty over our children. We don't. And as much as Indigenous people ⁓ wish to think, ⁓ well, I'm a social worker, I'm working for child and family. Yes, but you're working for the province. You're not working for the chief and council. You're working under an agency that is governed by the authority of patriarchy. So again, how much of our traditions and values are being honoured? by non-Indigenous people if they refuse to even listen. Just look at what happened. Just look at what's happening in Alberta. What, 300,000 people wanting to separate from Alberta? Why? Because they feel they're being treated unfairly? Why? Because what, somebody killed all their families and put them in communities that they don't like and they can't leave those communities? Like how outrageous. Or like what? They're not allowed to vote or have a voice? All the problems and the historical evidence of, ⁓ we'll say, religiosity, praying for bad things to happen to Indigenous people, has been going on forever. And I truly believe that, you know, if we believe them as Indigenous people, if we believe them, then we succumb to them. And I hope we're stronger than that. And I do hope. You know, if you have thoughts of suicide or ⁓ just wanting to end your life through drinking or alcohol or gambling, I'm susceptible to that. That we have the strength. we have the ability to stop when we're overreactive. ⁓ I mean, it affects us every day. It affects us every day. I know ⁓ some people are so passionate about giving advice to Indigenous women and saying, you can walk away from those womanizers, those white men who are womanizers, who blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, I... Even that's like mansplaying, isn't it? You know, when somebody says, you need to live this way. It's a choice. It's a freedom of choice. And sometimes I think ⁓ people just don't like it when you choose not to live or make the choices someone else has made. So again, like I said, if you wanted to know more about victims and the impacts they've had. ⁓ You know, mean. Throughout my podcast and throughout, I tried to prepare as much as I could before the jury and even during the jury and the trial and even speculations on things. know, a lot of things that I'd speculated on haven't even been dealt with in terms of the trial. Like, no, there's just so many things. Like, Nathan Chasing Horse can appeal. But at the same time, like look, he's even saying he's innocent. So of course there's still gonna be a hell of a lot of people who think that he doesn't deserve life in prison. I don't know, I think... I don't, the words coping and resilience seem to be coming up quite a bit. And I don't know if the, like for me, how do you cope with living with somebody or knowing somebody for decades? And how do you become resilient knowing that you're enmeshed in this behavior of this person? Like it'll take a lifetime of deconstructing and analyzing like your own self-reflection. You've got to have self-reflection to heal. And ⁓ I'm grateful, like I said. You can go on YouTube, you can do whatever, you can go on social media, you can research and you can find out like the people who followed Naysan Chasing Horse. It's important for them to write books, it's important for them to tell their stories. It's important for them to just be angry. You know, like be angry. It's okay to be angry at me, to be angry at other people. It's a process. It's a process of healing. And I can see it, like I saw it when I went there. I wouldn't have, if I hadn't gone, I wouldn't have witnessed it. I wouldn't have seen it and I wouldn't have felt it because I'm the observer. I can relate because I've gone through that night and again, indirectly, I've been exposed to to his lies. But yet at the same time, there's an underlying common factor of what we as Indigenous women have gone through. And we have to stop projecting lateral violence on people. We can't fit people in a heterosexual framework of patriarchy. The diversity and the healthy human sexuality of being binary. Like... You know, I just grieve. the renaissance of our young people. the reality of ⁓ the loneliness of getting older and not having support. See, when I listen to non-Indigenous women who've been married and have raised their children or they've been divorced or they're widowed, and they come from a patriarchal society, they either gravitate to religiosity or try to find some community that will support them. But yet they've spent decades serving their partners, doing the dishes, washing, raising their children. They've been serving their partners. And then once their partners are gone, like they feel lost, anxiety, they're going insane. See, I don't have that because I'm matriarchal. ⁓ Sometimes I don't think people understand that, for me, even with the chief and council, and because they're 50 % female and 50 % male, and just the respect, I don't know how to explain it unless you've actually lived it or embrace it. When I went into a community of immigrants from Africa the other day, and they were all speaking their language. You know, I'm going, they spoke their language. You know, I'm going, yes. I said, do see why I don't speak my language? Do you understand the history of genocide, the history of gender apartheid, the history of trying to erase the identity of Indigenous women and children that we don't even know our language? Like I... I walked into that room and could just feel respect. could just feel respect. Even the majority of the audience were men, but I could feel that respect because I'm matriarchal. That same respect that I get within my community, I felt it in that community that I visited yesterday. I don't know how to explain it. I just felt it. My white friend ⁓ in Montreal, she said, what do you mean? How did you feel it? I said, I just felt respected. I said, even like they came up and shook my hand, like it was like a warm embrace. It was like, I don't know, that's the only closest thing I could get to the realization. Even it was like a glow. If energy had a glow, I'd say the room was glowing. But that's my analogy ⁓ of respect. And I've never felt that in... Like I've never felt that before when I go to ⁓ meetings in the city. So it was a unique experience and I'm grateful that there's a potential that they're gonna invite me back, which I will accept. But ⁓ again, I'm not trying to minimize ⁓ patriarchy. It's all over the world right now. I I grew up in it. ⁓ I grew up in it in the sense that I had to go to school in it, come home at night into matriarchy, go into the city patriarchy, back and forth, back and forth like that as a child, as a child. And some people say, ⁓ well, it's one eyed or two eyed. And I'm going, no, you don't get it. born in it and you're raised in it. I know a lot of Metis people, ⁓ mixed blood people who have just lived in the city under patriarchy try to identify with their indigenous roots, yet there's the identity of like this is how it is. Yes, this is how it is for mixed blood people who are raised in patriarchy. It's not the same for Indigenous people who've been raised in matriarchy, who are male and female, who follow the traditions of their family, their individual family group. And just to have that respect for that family, I think it's a deeper connection. ⁓ Matriarchy has a deeper connection. Some people might see it from me as being like, oh, well, she's ordering me around. I got to get her tea. But she wants this or she wants that. And I'm going, that's... And they get tired of it go, I'm not going to treat you like that. And I'm going, okay, well, that's fine. You can go and do what you want. But, you know, if somebody wants to give me, get me tea and all this stuff, then... and show me that kind of respect, okay? See, ⁓ it's like volunteerism. ⁓ I've served people my whole life. See, matriarchy comes with a price. But if you see it as a price and if you see it as a burden, then, you know, like patriarchy, you know, when individualism where female services her husband, raises his children, and then he leaves and she's wondering, like, she's all alone. Most older women too now are finding that they just don't want to ever be in a sexual relationship anymore or even date or just ⁓ It's a different world, I think, for older women in any culture, in any situation. But I do find myself in a unique situation because ⁓ I'm in my own home. ⁓ I have a beautiful view of the mountains. ⁓ I don't know how I am happy. I mean, I'm lonely and alone, but I'm happy. And again, you know, I have my own community and I have my own support and this is my life. I hope that anything that I can contribute to my podcast or have people give some sort of insight in what it is to be Indigenous. and to be an elder, and to be a vocal elder. Understand that too. See, this is the whole point that I'm trying to get across. Even when I talk about binary and I talk about art and culture, just the creativity that's out there. I can see it and I can embrace it, but I want you to understand a lot of people my age don't and can't because of past trauma. The beauty of Indigenous renaissance is lost to some Indigenous people because of our inability to not heal. our inability to suppress our feelings so that we aren't unable to heal because we're too scared to feel. as hard as it is and as hard as it was. I'm just grateful. I am so grateful. It's important to protect your heart, mind, spirit and soul on a daily basis. As John Trudell had said, he's a Su philosopher. We live in a time where people are eating our spirits, our energy. So protect yourself. Encircle yourself in a bubble of protective, reflective, healing energy. Embrace it. Feel it. Feel that respect and love. At the same time release whatever is not serving the higher good that you have a difficult time to release. But you're protected so you're able to do it without anybody criticizing, violating you, condemning you, trying to guilt you into something that... They want you to fit in. Release that. Self-defeating idolization. That's self-defeating illusion or delusion. It's a mantra that I live by every day. If I can help and share things with you that are meaningful in the sense of knowing that there's hope out there and that there are invisible helping hands out there. This is what I said to Lynette and Serena. I said I've had invisible helping hands helping me throughout the decades in my life. Some of them I've had to let go and then start again. Some of them you learn a lesson and then you let go and some just go into the spirit world. But the remembrance and the reality of just knowing that there are invisible helping hands and be open to it because you're learning to feel again. I really admire this mother and daughter team. I wish more Indigenous moms and daughters were like them. I'm not saying they're perfect. I'm just saying to them when I spoke with them, I said... somebody I said I was told that if I went through this process I'd wonder why didn't I do this earlier. So that's why I'm talking about Lynette and Sierra. They're young. They've done this. The potential of what's ahead of them in terms of influencing and helping other Indigenous women heal and communities heal is so profound. So as much as Nathan chasing horses serving life. It took the courageous groups of women, now the three that took him to court, more power to them and may they be blessed for the rest of their lives. And for all the other victims who are out there who will never see justice, know that he's serving life and he's not going to ever hurt another child again. It's time to let that go. and get on with your life. There are so many things and so many invisible helping hands and so many people out there who just want somebody to hold space for them. As challenging as the world is, that has to be embraced and released by holding space and bearing witness to the injustice of what you're witnessing. Again, it's the 19th. I'm going to dinner this evening ⁓ with a group of artists and other Indigenous elders for the City of Calgary. And it's also a time of grieving. Not for myself, but for all those artists, all those people, those Renaissance people. that lost a... An artist. who shared her life. May her partner recover from her injuries, and may all who knew her personally for decades. It's amazing. I know when I met this core group of people, I knew it was amazing. That's why I am grateful as an elder to have met such gifted young people.