Latest / WA Police Confidential (Formerly Operation Podcast) / Ep 26 - Guns Made with Toilet Cleaners

Transcript

Ep 26 - Guns Made with Toilet Cleaners · WA Police Confidential (Formerly Operation Podcast)

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast discusses real life crimes and law enforcement matters.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: It may include detailed descriptions of criminal activity, traumatic incidents, and other content that could be confronting or distressing, particularly for victim survivors.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: If you find any of these topics upsetting, please consider whether this content is right for you and seek support if needed.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_04: You're listening to WA Police Confidential, the official podcast of the Western Australia Police Force.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Sergeant Nate Gilmore.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm Joey Catanzaro.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_04: Coming up in this episode, we look at a recent firearms investigation in Perth's East, where detectives allegedly uncovered privately manufactured firearms, homemade weapons, and other items of concern.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_06: Yep, we're going to be joined by Detective Senior Sergeant Cam Hubbard, and he's going to explain, and well, you will know by the end of this episode what the link is between this particular job, who done it, and the average dunny cleaner.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_06: I know that sounds bizarre.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_06: It is bizarre.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_06: Keep listening and find out.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_04: I'm busting to know.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: We'll also head to the Kimberly.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: Oh sorry.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_06: I love it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_06: Keep going.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I love it.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_06: Rolling.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_06: We're still live.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_06: We're still live.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_06: Sorry everyone.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_06: Sorry everyone who's listening.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: We'll also head to the Kimberly where there's vision circulating online of a white Toyota Land Cruiser allegedly being driven through Kananara, which gained plenty of attention.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, well look, one of the constables from up there will join us, Nate.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_06: And I think the thing here that we're going to hear about is there's there's usually more to the story when you see that vision online, then we're gonna we're going to explain that and what you don't see.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's it.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_04: I only see a little bit of it, so uh yeah, that'll be good.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_06: And there's a different story, I think, that Claire is bringing us this week.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_06: Nate?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, missing persons week, uh this week.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, this week and uh a particular case from I think around 1950 um of a uh an unsolved crime, which uh be interesting.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, well, and and look, and a few, I think, you know, obviously we're always on the on the lookout for for our missing peoples here in Western Australia and elsewhere.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_06: Um, this one we just hope will capture your attention.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_06: You could keep your eyes peeled, maybe we'll get some good results for family and loved ones.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_06: But first, this is confidential.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: This week on WA Police Confidential, we're joined by Detective Senior Sergeant Cam Hubbard from the Drugs and Firearm Squad.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: A recent search warrant in Perth East led detectives to uncover a collection of unusual weapons and firearm-related items raising concerns about a growing trend police are monitoring closely.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_04: Cam, you've been on the show before.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: We've spoken about privately manufactured firearms, and uh here we are again.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_04: What happened on High Wickham?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, thanks, Nate.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for having me.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah, this one started with the drug and firearm squad illicit firearm team, uh, who investigated um some suspicious imports which were detected by Australian Border Force, and they were items used commonly in the unlawful manufacture of firearms.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_05: So an investigation started on this individual, and what they had attempted to import was what we call unfinished firearm barrels.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that's items that are marketed as explosion explos explosion proof pipe and manufactured for that illicit purpose for firearm parts.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_05: So investigations recently commenced and then recently uh further information was uncovered, which led us to some positive police action um in High Wickham, where we have uh attended that address with a search warrant and some other specialist resources being the tactical response group, the bomb squad.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_05: And so you're really taking no chances here, you're getting all the specialists involved.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_05: That's right, yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_05: And that's on the back of conducting some risk assessments and identifying what potential risks there are for safety of officers.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_05: Because you just don't know, do you?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_05: We don't know, and we'd rather be safe than sorry and go prepared.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that you know results in the tactical response group who roll out with quite a formidable force.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_06: So more than just fire uh explosion-proof barrels, let me tell you that.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_05: That's exactly right.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_05: And it's probably a bit of a note for people involved where we're talking firearms, we're talking safety.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_05: We're not going to take these chances.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_05: So um tactical response group rolling out, and with the presence that they have, it's it's quite a statement for us to make, but it's for a purpose of maintaining safety.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_06: What what did you find when you actually went through that door?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_05: There's quite a um large amount of items that uh been privately manufactured firearms, weapons, electrical shock devices, um commercially manufactured items which operate as a firearm, such as uh what's referred to and marketed online as a um jet pro channel cleaner or plumbing tool.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_06: Wait, sorry, uh a toilet cleaner.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_06: Toilet brush.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_05: Well, there's no brush part of it.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but it certainly operates as a firearm.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_05: So these uh were targeted by us um some time ago, and we had ballistic testing conducted on these, and they were deemed to meet the definition of a firearm in accordance with the WA Firearms Act.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_06: So, in layman's terms, effectively, uh someone is manufacturing firearms parts or but explosive proof barrels, as you said.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_06: But they're marketing them as toilet brushes to what to get them into the country?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, well, it's I suppose carefully crafted marketing to promote their sales.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_05: However, the item is a firearm, and these operate by compressed air.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_05: They have a laser sight on them, and they propel projectiles such as steel ball bearings.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, there's that is one L of a toilet brush.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_06: I'm sorry for a toilet brush with a laser sight, just add a mental image.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know you know there is a gun manufacturer called Browning, and I'm wondering, you know, this kind of goes back to the thing.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_06: That that is um wow, toilet humor at its um best or worst.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not too sure.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_06: But look, uh I'm sure that I'm sure that um you know, as you said, it's it's a real thing.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_06: And um as anybody who's potentially who's faced one of these things in a in a in a situation on the streets might have thought that you know I've had a real brush with death.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_07: Sorry.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_06: That was way better.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_05: I would add the toilet humour.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_05: These um channel cleaners, toilet cleaners, look and operate like a firearm, and I'm not sure where the um requirement for a laser sight to clean your toilet.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: You need to be accurate sometimes, you know.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, this is serious, these are serious, this is the real firearms, but also real consequences for those that have them, correct?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely, it's deemed firearms.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_06: The joke's on them.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_06: The joke is on them.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: You are liable to up to five years' imprisonment for possessing one of these because it is deemed a firearm.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, but okay.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_06: Could you take yourself seriously as a criminal if you're walking around with effectively a toilet brush that could shoot people?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_06: I just I just seriously consider a different career.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_06: Come on.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_05: I mean Absolutely.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah, I think your future career plans would go down the drain with uh Oh yes.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_06: That was uh that's pretty good.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_06: Uh another another one here on this list, a a throwing knife.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_05: They had a throwing knife, yeah, a set of throwing knives.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_05: So they are illegal and uh you know you're liable to charges under the Weapons Act for possession of throwing knives.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_05: There's no real legitimate reason to have possession of those, and therefore you're committing offence by being a possession of them.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_06: They seem quite a niche product um to be committing crimes with.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_06: Um I would suggest um maybe not worth the risk given that there are serious penalties for owning them, and and and I've I've never really seen anyone successfully actually use one um in real life before.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_05: No, absolutely not, apart from old movies where they're being used in a circus event or something like that on a spinning wheel.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_05: Uh that's a thing of the past, but uh they're illegal items.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: Cam, did they say they provide any explanation as to why they had those items?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_04: Or are we looking at sort of more organised crime?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_04: What's the story?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_06: What were they going to do with those things?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_05: No, this appears to be the um siloed actions of an individual.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_05: Uh no ex explanation can be given for why they've been involved in this, or manufacturing of firearms, manufacturing of ammunition, manufacturing of electric shock devices were also located.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_05: There's um yeah, the actions of an individual in this particular case.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_06: Um can I um I just look uh we've we've talked about this.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_06: The offences are real, uh, the consequences are potentially very real.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's you know, it's a matter that's um that will go before the courts.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_06: Um and and um you know we're seeing this sort of behaviour happening and and more and more, unfortunately, Cam, but we are seeing arrests happening more and more as well.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_06: So the chance of you being caught, highly likely, I would say.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_06: Can I just offer a an alternative?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_06: Um, just rather than get into the whole gun firearm thing, where you can hurt yourself, you can get hurt, you can face serious jail time.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_06: It would be equally as terrifying to be held up with an actual used toilet brush.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, if if somebody came at me with a used toilet brush and said, give me all your money, I'd be like, Yep, take it.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's quite ironic to think that an item marketed as a plumbing tool would solve your plumbing problems.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_05: It would cause a lot more problems, I think, that toilets and pipes and any plumbing part of someone's house or business would be destroyed by this device.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: If you had a blockage, you got some real problems.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you do.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I tell you, I mean, the courts um are already, you know, potentially with the amount of arrests we're making in this space, Cam, they're pretty backed up.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we've certainly I was a bit slow to up.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_05: But uh it's terrible.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_05: I've picked it up now.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so sorry, everyone.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_06: Just yeah, um, okay.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_06: Well, Cam, is there look, is there anything else that you wanted to sort of mention before we uh before we move on?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, look, um on a serious note, I would just really um emphasize the dangers of people being involved in the unlawful manufacture of firearms, weapons, firearms using um ammunition.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_05: It's can cause significant harm, safety for themselves, but also other members of the public.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_05: It's something that uh police are taking very seriously.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_05: There's significant penalties involved in this.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_05: We are heavily invested in the area of um people involved in this unlawful and illicit firearm activity.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um we've actually uh got some action on today where uh another person is facing some serious consequences for unlawful firearm manufacture that's unfolding with the illicit firearm team at Drug and Firearm Squad right now.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, we've got a lot of uh partnerships with other agencies where they are um invested in you know this space with us.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_05: So people doing it, there's a high chance you're gonna get caught.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_05: There's a high chance you're gonna face significant penalties.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: We've had you on the show uh previously just to sort of talk more about how prevalent it's becoming.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_04: And you mentioned as well that even just having the blueprints on your computer, if you're curious, you're committing an offence there too.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_06: And it's funny, it's funny that you say blueprints because I I'm just mindful the halfing halfing toilet cleaner.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_06: I don't think anyone's gonna take these guys seriously in prison, but uh that's where they're going potentially if you're if you're uh you're found guilty of one of these offences.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_06: Kev, thank you so much for uh just making my day.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_05: No, you're welcome.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, thanks very much.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: This is WA Police Confidential.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: This is WA Police Confidential.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Well, recently you may have seen online a white Twerda Land cruiser allegedly causing concern in the Kananara community.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_04: What the vision does not show is the police response behind the scenes and how that incident eventually came to an end in Bushland off Weeber Plain Road.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_04: To talk us through what happened and some of the challenges that local police facing when responding to stolen vehicles involving young people, we're joined by Constable Cade Guppy from Kanunara Police.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_04: Cade, I believe you were involved in that incident that night.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: Tell us a little bit more about what happened.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no worries.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I um was actually working the Kananara rodeo event that night um that was happening.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I was just coming to the end of my shift when I heard over the radio.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um officers down on the road, believe they had seen a car driving recklessly um around the street.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and generally for us to that indicate uh it's most likely a stunned car.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's just what happens the majority of the time.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I just stayed back and I just helped out uh with the um shy cameras and helped the joint operator as a spotter.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_06: So these um these uh evade incidents, if you will.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_06: We call them evade incidents, but often they're referred to as you know, police chase or police pursuit.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_06: And sometimes it looks like it looks like police are being chased.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_06: Sometimes it looks like police are chasing uh the stolen.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_06: The truth could be a bit of both.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, I know the commissioner has explained in the past very publicly that often there are certain resolution tactics where police will will want to lead a stolen vehicle uh out of town or to an area where a safe uh resolution that means end to the chase can happen.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_06: Is that is that kind of does that sort of fit with what your experience is up there, mate?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, definitely.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um majority of the times when a car is stolen, um it takes it, it takes the same truck that it usually takes.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: It likes to drive around um certain spots in town.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um unfortunately, um some of the political tenders that possible are aware of where things are like actually.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes it is a bit of a challenge, but we do tend to lead them to um spots where we know we can come to a resolution like a thing out.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we want to get them away from um like buildings, members of the public, and just away from the town.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely, mate.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_06: No, but and look, I think that that makes a lot of sense.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_06: This particular video uh does show, I think it's um a police car, police vehicle, um, and and the stolen car, and it's sort of circling, um, I think.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_06: It's around a tree or something.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_06: Around a tree, I think, from memory.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_06: Um, look, we it there is no doubt uh a risk involved in any of these incidents.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_06: A risk both to the the young people who have have stolen the car, but also to members of the community, the public that might get caught up in the chase, and and also the police officers too, right?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, 100%.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_06: Um how how do you guys go with dealing with, I guess, that that element of it?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, the the fact that, you know, you're out, you're out and about, and the next thing you know, you've got uh kids who uh are driving a stolen car potentially at you.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's um it's really car uh it's really hard for us.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um at the end of the day, there are all children um outside of the car.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um we deal with them on a daily basis.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um they're not military, um, they're not evil.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's fine when when they're out of a car, but when you put a bunch of kids in a um, you know, one-time moving basically weapon put off at risk.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, they're they're children, but they're they're in a car which can do serious damage.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_06: So the competing thing for you then is how do you keep yourself safe?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_06: How do you keep the community safe?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_06: And what also I guess how you how are you gonna sort of resolve this without uh the kids being hurt as well?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um we want it to come to a resolution.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: The safest resolution that we can.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so not only do we have to think about ourselves and the members of the public, but we've got to think about the safety of the people in the car.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: So although they're driving at us and uh sometimes even trying to nearly hit us, um like yeah, we we've got to think about their safety.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_06: And I mean, I I just think it's such a professional and difficult job that you're doing, um, that you're you're balancing all those different competing priorities.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Kate, um you mentioned, and this certainly uh matches with with my experience um working up in in the Kimberley in particular.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_06: The kids usually, generally speaking, in in towns like Kananara have a great relationship with the with the coppers.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_06: And people haven't been there will will probably be skeptical of that statement, given that it's police who are often arresting juvenile offenders, but but often um they're out on the streets for a variety of different reasons.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_06: And I note that police don't solve society's problems, they just respond to them.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_06: And and sometimes uh, and it's been noted that you know the closest relationships that some of the kids in town have with with anyone um outside of their own families is is police, and they can be positive interactions as well.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_06: What why do you reckon, given that's the case, is there any sort of any kind of indication of uh why they're getting into cars and stealing them and driving around recklessly?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: They do um we do have a relationship with the kids in in the community in Kanana.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's just because we deal with them um on a daily basis that they kind of get to know us and we kind of get to know them.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I know some of the cops here even have some nicknames.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, they're doing all these kinds of stuff, but we do have a good relationship with them and good rapport.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's a it's a pretty small percentage across the state, if we want to look at the state, it's an extremely small percentage of of all kids in the state are actually involved in crime.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_06: And and uh the police commissioner Cole Blanche has has been on the record many times saying that um you know it's a very small percentage of of juveniles who are committing crime over and over again.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um it's really, really sad, and that's certainly above yours and my pay grade.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_06: Uh and and and Nate's.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_06: Um look, I guess, you know, the thing with these videos, and you would have probably been up there now that there's been a few taken, they don't always tell the whole story, do they?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_07: No, no, not at all.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's it is tough, mate.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_06: Um again, um, you know, I I think it's worth worth noting that a lot of the kids up there are are good kids, that there are some who are doing this.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_06: We hope that we hope that there are other things that you know police can, as we said, can only respond to the problems um as opposed to fixing them.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_06: But we we hope that those other other things that are being done and other partnerships will uh will will maybe help with the uh deterrence longer term.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_06: Um look in the interim, all I can say is, mate, thank you so much to you and to all the team up there in Kananara for doing that extremely, extraordinarily difficult balancing act of keeping yourselves safe, the community safe, and trying your very best to keep these kids safe.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_06: It's really, really appreciated, mate.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: No worries, thanks.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're just doing the best we can.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, mate.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: This is WA Police Confidential.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: All units, the WA police forces looking for people, all kinds of people, people in a tank, in the comedian, into formal comedy, dumb people, in horse people, people who like winter body because helicopters are complicated, people who are big on community, don't be able to communicate, just want to be ordinary people who are ordinary people.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_06: You could be multiple people.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_06: You've found your people.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_06: Search, let's join forces.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_06: This is confidential.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I think it's fair to say that most of us, myself included, have at times, for various reasons, forgotten to show up to work.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_06: Uh maybe it's a public holiday or a a different shift.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_06: But I think it's quite unusual for someone to forget that they're they no longer have to turn up to work.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_06: This is a really sweet and I think really beautiful story about somebody who was really important and had a great career with the Blue family, who has remained very much part of the family and loyal to the family.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, past their retirement.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_06: Joining me today to talk about it is Michelle.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_06: Michelle, your your grandfather, uh Dennis McCrone, was a WA police officer.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_06: He retired as a first class sergeant.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, but his PD number being 3012, he never really sort of stopped thinking of himself as a police officer, as many of them do, but this was a bit more unique, this situation.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_06: Can you tell us about it?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: So Grandad's always been very proud of being a police officer.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we've all heard multiple stories of his multiple times.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um sadly, in the last year he's been diagnosed with dementia.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: And one of his uh delusions that was very hard to shake recently was that he had re-enlisted in the police force and he was ended up very concerned that he wasn't able to do his job properly.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so it led to a few interesting situations that we had to deal with.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_06: I c I can imagine I I look I'm I'm I'm hoping no no one was placed under arrest.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_06: Uh but look it it is I I I think maybe, and I'll put it pose as a question, do you is it maybe testament to his time, and we will get into that in a moment, uh, in the West Australian police force.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe do you think do you think maybe that impression that left on him is that he well maybe enjoyed the job, wanted to come back?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's always been such a strong part of his identity.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I don't know, maybe his brain just went back to where he felt very useful and um had purpose and yeah, how he sees a lot of the world is through those police eyes too.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_06: Wow, okay.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_06: Um now Dennis he joined the police force I I've got Sonic here, 29th of July 1957.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_06: Uh he served in Perth, he served in Metropolitan and regional police stations, including in Kalgooli, Kulgadi, Midland, Mundering, Bunbury, and he also served at the old criminal investigation branch, CIB.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_06: Uh he retired from the CIB on the 2nd of July 1981 after Estella almost, well, she's more than two decades of service to the community.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_06: Um I I just I I wonder, did I know you said those stories, they come out a few times again and again, and and I certainly um I had a grandmother who was living with dementia.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_06: Are there some good ones um that he's telling over and over again?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, yep.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um some funny ones and some like one time he went to uh inspect a uh warehouse that was being burgled, and he's he snuck in and he's healing along the wall for the light switch, and all of a sudden he felt a face.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: He said he doesn't know who jumped more, him or the burglar, but he got um he he got his man in the end.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, look, I get look, so I get it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_06: If you've heard it ten thousand times, it may be have less impact, but that's the first I ever heard it, and that was amazing.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: And another um really cool thing from his police days is he actually credits going being sent to Kulgardi as a police officer with them actually having a family.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my grandparents had tried for nine years to have children and nothing was happening.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: And they got sent to Kulgardi and ended up fostering a little two and a half-year-old.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um they ended up adopting and she's my mom, and she ended up giving them five uh grandchildren and four great-grandchildren, and then plus after they had adopted her, they fell pregnant naturally and had another daughter, and she had two children and four great-grandchildren.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: So grandad says it's one of the best things that happened to us because you know, we got our whole family from being transferred and and having that opportunity in the police force.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, that's actually really beautiful, Michelle.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_06: That's fantastic.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_06: Having heard, I guess that the look, the last thing, I mean, we we didn't want obviously your uh your your granddad to to be feeling like he was not somehow serving his duty, particularly because he did such a great job uh whilst he was in uniform.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_06: You contacted us recently, and I think there might have been a a bit of a presentation to sort of help potentially uh help him uh remember that he's been retired from the force.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I couldn't um convince him that he wasn't in the police force anymore.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um and he was just very stressed.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, I've got to get to the commissioner's office so I can um retire again and and I can't spell to do my reports, and you know, he didn't try arresting a few people and stuff like that.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: How about I email the commissioner's office?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um tell him that you're retired.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I thought to myself, I wonder if they would mind writing a letter just saying that he's retired and um I can print it for him and then he's got it because he does quite well with reading and absorbing information that way.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: And uh then the next thing I know they say, Oh, can we come out?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: And uh next thing the commissioner is coming as well, and he had a little um certificate of service uh presented and the commissioner's coin, and he just felt on top of the world.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it was really lovely.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_06: The commissioner came out and presented it to him.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yep.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_06: Uh Michelle, this is it's been such an absolute pleasure talking to you, and and I thank your uh grandfather for your service.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_06: Please pass that on to him.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I I know that these stories, hearing them over and over again for for you, um, you know, that you clearly you love your grandfather, maybe it loses a little bit of impact, but I reckon everybody who's listening right now would have really enjoyed hearing about it.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_06: And uh, you know, uh perfect to be I mean the one with the the the crook with the face in the warehouse, I'd listen to that 10,000 times.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_06: That is a great story.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's many more of them if you ever want to visit him.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you very much, Michelle.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: No worries, thank you so much.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_06: Cheers, this is confidential.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_06: This is confidential.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_06: Well, as Nate mentioned in the intro this week is National Missing Persons Week.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_06: And it is very, in fact, difficult, if not impossible, to really distinguish importance when it comes to missing persons because each person is missed by someone, and to that person it's extremely important.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_06: So the only way we could do this fairly is by going back in time to our oldest missing persons case.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_06: Claire Sienta, thanks very much for joining us.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_06: Can you give us a bit of a rundown on our oldest unsolved missing person case here in Western Australia?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it was actually a woman by the name of Patricia Daphne Brune.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: She was 17 years old at the time, back in 1953.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it, like you said, it's one of the oldest cases on the books here in WA.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the circumstances around her disappearance are quite interesting.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: She actually received a secret phone call um at work on the day she disappeared.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: She left work early um to meet a man and left with a package under her arm.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: She was possibly pregnant at the time as well.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she's never been seen since.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: She left work and vanished.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_06: Wow.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_06: So um do we do we do was there any sightings?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_06: Nothing at all.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_06: No leads, no nothing.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, uh she would be in her 80s or 90 if she was alive today.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: So this whole time we've we've not seen.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: There's been reports that she could be overseas living a new life, um, but nothing confirmed, nothing substantiated.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a mystery, um, one of the longest unsolved mysteries in WA's history.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so I I guess National Missing Persons Week is is a time to revisit some of those cases and and shine a light on them for and Claire, look, it is sad, but in all honesty, it's probably not likely that um we're you're gonna get a tip off a better nine-year-old woman with a package under her arm um walking around and this will be a happy resolution.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_06: Um this one just happens to be the oldest of our missing person's cases.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_06: But there are many, many active investigations um and many missing people at the moment who I guess do have a very good chance of being found if we have the assistance of the public, right?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there are actually over 300.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: So there's 381 long-term missing people in WA.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so all of those cases remain ongoing and open and anything that would lead to any sort of answers for these families.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's what our missing persons unit does.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they look into every lead and and hopefully, you know, with that commitment of trying to find some answers for that for those families.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: So there's 381 families.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_06: And where are our missing persons unit today, Claire, on this podcast segment?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're busy with National Missing Persons Week.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: They are indeed this week.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yes, they they have their um their plate pretty full.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_06: So not missing, just working.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Not missing, yes, correct.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Working hard for the missing people.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: Is there a place um members of the public can go, Claire, to look up these missing person cases?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if it's uh if you're looking nationally, there's the National Missing Persons Register.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you can troll through there.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's also the Crime Stoppers web website.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, have a look through.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: If anything triggers a memory, would we'd always be happy to hear from you guys and hopefully uh provide those answers.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_04: I think importantly, if you've got something playing on your mind from a long time ago and you may think it's insignificant, or you might know a lot more than what you think the police know.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: Don't don't always assume that the police know everything.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_04: Pick up the phone or jump online and make a report.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_04: You can be anonymous and you might actually bring closure to some of these families, right?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's a there's a really interesting case as well that's kind of the focus for this this National Missing Persons Week.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: A 13-year-old girl by the name of Sophie Woodman trekked right across the country, hitchhiked with her friend.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, she's never been seen since.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Her friend was actually located a few months later.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this one dates back to 1980 as well.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: So there are some really old cases that that we do need your help to solve.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there are also some more recent ones, but yeah, at the moment we um we just want to put that call out, shine a light for National Missing Persons Week.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_06: Jeez, I mean, wouldn't it be good if one of those old ones got got resolved one way or another for the family?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a long time to go without answers.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: We've delved into some of these missing persons cases in previous podcast episodes.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're keen to unpack this a little bit more, go back and have a listen.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_06: One other point I just want to make really quickly, and that is that um the police commissioner here, Cole Blanche, often says, you know, when it comes to weeks of action, um, missing persons week, those sorts of things, it is good because it gets attention and publicity.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_06: But but I just want to reassure the families of those who are missing every week we are out there there looking.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_06: Every week we are out there hoping to find them.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_06: So this is not one week of the year, it's fifty-two weeks of the year every year.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and and and an entire unit dedicated to this very cause.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_06: Claire, thanks very much for um for coming on the the podcast again.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_06: Um if you do know something, say something.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_06: Give us a call at Crime Stoppers, I guess, Nate.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, 1-800-3330 or crimestroppers WA.com.au.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_06: This is confidential.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to WA Police Confidential.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's Claire here and Claire alone.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually bringing home the episode solo today.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Nate and Joey have had some prior commitments.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, in news this week, Carnarvon Police are reminding the community to be extra vigilant following a recent increase in some stealing, burglary, and motor vehicle-related offences in the region.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: So over the past several weeks, there have been multiple reports made to police of predominantly juvenile-related property offences.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: So they're primarily targeting caravan parks, tourist accommodation, and commercial premises.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: So in this investigation, police have actually charged nine juvenile males with 61 offenses as a result of those inquiries.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: So the message is pretty clear to anyone traveling through Carnarvon at the moment or living in Carnarvon.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: The safety of our community remains that number one priority.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: So just take those extra steps, extra precautions to lock up your vehicles and take those steps to protect your property.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: In other news, a 31-year-old man from Melbourne has been extradited back to Western Australia following an investigation into alleged child sexual offences.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it was actually led by detectives from the Broome Detective's Office, and the allegations relate to offences allegedly committed in Perth in September last year, so 2025.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be alleged the accused contacted the victim through social media and online gaming platforms before flying from Melbourne to Perth to meet the victim and allegedly sexually assault her.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a joint investigation through Victoria Police Sexual Crimes Investigation Team and the Australian Border Force as well.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: So a really thorough investigation there.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: That 31-year-old man from Point Cook has been charged with a string of sexual uh child sex-related offenses.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he'll front the court on those matters, and um, we'll see how that plays out.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: And just to wrap up, last week we teased a fact about the WA police's luckiest officer.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I apologize if you're on the edge of your seat waiting for that one, but you're gonna have to wait another week.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Our history team is on it, it's taking a little bit more digging than we thought.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: So um, this week's history fact is uh is actually um relating to one of WA police forces' less lucky officers.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: The Broom race riots of December 1920 was where it all started.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was sparked by a long-standing tension between Japanese and Indonesian purling workers.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: It erupted into three days of violent clashes involving around a thousand people.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: At the center of that crisis was Inspector Herbert Thomas.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: He commanded Broome's small police contingent back in the 20s, and faced with overwhelming numbers, he quickly swore in special constables to restore order, remained on duty throughout the entire unrest.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: So his calm leadership and sound judgment were widely credited with single-handedly preventing the violence from escalating into a far greater tragedy.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: So after days without food or sleep, prolonged exposure to the summer heat and relentless physical exertion, Inspector Thomas developed a fever of 43 degrees, collapsed from exhaustion, and passed away on December 22, 1920, just as order had been restored.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: So in his obituary, he was described as a lover of peace and to have behaved with great common sense.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: He left behind his wife Emma and 10 children, and he was just 54 years of age.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a wrap for this week's episode.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks very much for listening.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is WA Police Confidential.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: WA Police Confidential was produced by Joe Garris, Danny Vandeveer, Lisa Evans, and Sam Ooh.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Sound editing by Joe and Danny and Sam, a cover song by the WA Police Pipe Band, and Cheesy Podcast theme music by Joey Canonzaro.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, why just listen to a podcast about policing when you could actually be doing it?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Let's join forces.gov dot AU.