Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / VEGAN PARENTS' INFANT BOY STARVED DEAD IN OWN BASSINET, siblings’ teeth rot black from malnutrition

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VEGAN PARENTS' INFANT BOY STARVED DEAD IN OWN BASSINET, siblings’ teeth rot black from malnutrition · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: A little baby starved dead in his own bassinet while
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the parents are in the home. The home is a wreck.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: One child sleeping in a hammock, one child sleeping in
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a dog bed on the floor, the other child in
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the bassie, wasting away until the baby dies. Now the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: parents are claiming, Oh, it wasn't our fault. We're vegans. Okay.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I've heard of the twinkie defense. I've heard of the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I'm all my period defense, but now the vegan defense.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want justice
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Two parents in Cape Coral are
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: charged with the death of their eighteen month old son.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: The baby wage just seventeen pounds at the time of
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: his death. Experts say seventeen pounds is what a seven
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: month old should weigh, not a baby who's a year
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: and a half old. A Lee County grand jury indicted
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Ryan Patrick O'Leary and Sheila O'Leary Wednesday on charges a
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: first agree murder, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter, child abuse,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and two counts of child neglect. According to a police report,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the mother called nine one one in September when she
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: noticed her son was not breathing and felt cold. According
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: to Newspress, the baby was dead when paramedics arrived. The
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  Speaker 1: state attorney for the case says the indictments also include
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: three other children who suffered child abuse and extreme neglect.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: They are three years old, five years old, and eleven
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: years old. You are hearing our friend at CBS Miami.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: That's Katie Johnson's speaking. An eighteen month old infant dead,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: weighing just seventeen pounds us what a baby should weigh?
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: A six or seven month old? With me an all
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of it all. Doctor Daniel
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Bober forensics psychiatrist at Doctor Daniel Bober on Instagram, Doctor
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the State off Florida Forensics,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Zasberg Founder Beer Bones Consulting, Karen Smith, James Shelnut twenty
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: seven years metro major case and SWAT officer, now lawyer
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  Speaker 1: and joining me special guests to represents. Sheila O'Leary, the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: thirty five year old mom and you can find him
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: at MUSCA law dot com MUSCA. But first, let's go
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: through the facts. What we know happen when mommy calls
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: nine one one. Sheila O'Leary thirty five and Ryan O'Leary,
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  Speaker 1: thirty are from Florida, and mommy calls nine one one
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: when she realizes her baby is cold to the touch.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: First of all, to doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the state of Florida, how long would it take in
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: all beyond air in a home. Let's just say at
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: sixty eight to seventy degrees in the home. How long
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: would it take for a baby to get cold to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: the touch? Well, after the baby dies, the body loses
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: about one degree per hour, So then cold to the
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: touch of sort of a relative term, So I would
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: guess it would be a few hours before the baby
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: starts feeling cold to the touch. I'm sorry, did you
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: say one to three hours. I'm saying that the body
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: loses one degree of temperature every hour, So if the
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: baby feels cold to the touch, the baby should have
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: been deceased for several hours. Well, how what body chimp
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: makes you cold to the touch? How cold you have
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: to be to be cold to the touch? Well, that's
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: a relative term. Everyone's a little different, you know, But
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I would think that once the body temperature goes below
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: ninety degrees aarrenheight. Then most people would assume that that
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: would be a cold to the touch. Okay, below ninety
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  Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit equals cold to the touch, and that's I'm
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: sure ephemistic. I'm sure you're you're going with in light
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  Speaker 1: most favorable to the mom and dad. So body temperature
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  Speaker 1: is typically ninety eight point six Do I at least
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: have that right? You certainly do now, certainly, So to
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: get down to ninety degrees to be cold to the
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: touch would be eight point six hours. Is that not correct?
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: That would be true for an adult with a baby,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: possibly they would lose heat even even faster than that.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: So I would say maximum eight hours of death, but
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  Speaker 1: it could be a half that, it could be four
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: hours or so. It depends on the body, the surface
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: area of the of the baby when they die. I'm
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: very curious about what time of the day that nine
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  Speaker 1: one one is called. I'm taking a look at the
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: family's home. They are in Cape Coral. It looks like
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: a lovely home. There is a grass yard in the front,
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  Speaker 1: a palm tree in the front that it's landscaped and manicured.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: It's not big, but it looks like a typical ranch
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: style home. It looks to me like there is a
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: BMW parked in the front. But what I do know
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: is that mommy calls. Also, we've learned that there was
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: a probably caused affidavit that was issued by police. It
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: says the other children were pale and had yellowish skin,
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  Speaker 1: and one of them had blackened teeth caused by dental decay. Okay,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: doctor Gallingher, I know you're a you're an MD, not
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: a DDS a dentist, But what can you tell me?
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  Speaker 1: How long would it take teeth blackened from decay? Not
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: long at all, as it also depends on the child's genetics.
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  Speaker 1: But if you are malnourished, you do not have good
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: teeth formation, and that they are more susceptible to becoming
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  Speaker 1: decayed if good dental hygiene is not practiced regularly. But
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  Speaker 1: I mean turning black. How can you say that doesn't
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: take long and off your teeth and turn black. Well,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: your teeth have to start out good to begin with,
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  Speaker 1: and if they have a chronic history of being malnourished,
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  Speaker 1: the teeth will not form properly and they are very,
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  Speaker 1: very susceptible to decay if they're not brushed enough. Kept
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  Speaker 1: so you know, it could just it could be we're
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: talking in terms of eighteen months, could be two years,
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  Speaker 1: you know, before they turn black like like you're describing. Okay, No,
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  Speaker 1: wait a minute, you said, no time at all. I
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: guess I'm looking at things differently than you do, doctor Gallagher,
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  Speaker 1: because I'm looking at obvious premeditated child neglect. And I mean,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: for me, that can be a period of hours you
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: neglect your childs if also the swimming pool and dies,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: you neglect your child old, it burns itself on your
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: curling arm because you're not paying attention. That's felony child
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  Speaker 1: abuse neglect. Eighteen months is a lifetime, a lifetime to
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  Speaker 1: form premeditation under the law. But before I have these two,
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  Speaker 1: the mom and the dad, Ryan Patrick O'Leary and Sheila
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  Speaker 1: O'Leary strung up at the gallows, let's go to Sheila
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  Speaker 1: O'Leary's defense attorney, excellent reputation throughout the jurisdiction, John Muska. Okay, John,
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  Speaker 1: how can the children's teeth be black with decay and
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: they're not be parental neglect? What would be the defense
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: for that? Nancy? My understanding is that they had been
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  Speaker 1: receiving don't care, and we have not been able to
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  Speaker 1: confirm on ir ND that they have in fact been
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  Speaker 1: neglected to that extent. So defense counsel is unequivocally denying
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: any type of in that respect. Okay, So here's my question,
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  Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to face this when you guys
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: go to trial or the case is resolved. I guarantee
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  Speaker 1: you that they're going to at least, at the very
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  Speaker 1: least be police witnesses or defacts for what they're worth.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Department Family Children's Services witnesses stating that children's teeth were black.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Not talking about the dead baby, talking about the other children. Now,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: there was an eleven year old in the home that
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: apparently was thriving. Documents revealed the eleven year old, who's
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Sheila Ulear's daughter from another relationship, visits her bioden Virginia
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: every two months. She was in much better physical shape
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: compared to her emaciated half siblings. Now we also learned
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: that when interviewed by police, your client, Sheila O'Leary. This
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: is according to their documents, she said her youngest child
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: had not eaten anything other than breast milk for the
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: week leading up to his death. She said he didn't
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: have an appetite because he was teething. You know, John,
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  Speaker 1: you better not stack that jury full of moms, because
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I nut up if Lucy won't eat her dinner last night.
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  Speaker 1: She only ate half of her steak patty with cheese
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  Speaker 1: on top, and I was beside myself. I made her
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  Speaker 1: a penyb in j after with a glass of meal
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  Speaker 1: to tempt her, which she ate. Sounds a little bit
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  Speaker 1: happier with that, But a week, John, I mean, this
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: is not the police. This is your clients saying that
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  Speaker 1: according to police documents. How can you fight that at trial? Well, Nancy,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: first of all, the reality is that many many kids
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  Speaker 1: worldwide are raised on vegan and vegetarian diets. Are that
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  Speaker 1: you just find something else was happening here, something else
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  Speaker 1: was going on. We're still gathering information, we're still in
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the early stages of China ascertain an alternate cause here.
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  Speaker 1: But we're solidly of the opinion that the child was
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  Speaker 1: doing just fine and had been doing fine on the
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: raw vegan diet. So we're yet to determine where we're
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: going to go from here in that regard. Well, I
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: agree with you on much of what you just said,
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  Speaker 1: John Musca, because many people are vegetarian. My nephews vegetarian,
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  Speaker 1: his wife, girls and my daughter's Scout troop are vegetarian.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: They're doing They're all doing just fine. Now. These children
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  Speaker 1: were all fed a diet, according to mommy and daddy
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: of mainly consisting of mangoes, bananas, avocados. They were also
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: homeschooled by their mother. But to say that the child
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: hadn't eaten for a week because it was teething, that's
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: not gonna fly. I mean, daughter Tim Gallagher Medical Exam
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: or State of Florida. How many days can a child
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  Speaker 1: go without eating and live an infant well, if a
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  Speaker 1: child is well nourished, they can go probably five to
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  Speaker 1: seven days, you know, without protein, but they will need fluids.
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  Speaker 1: You know. Another part of this case is, you know,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the autopsy is going to prove very vital. Here we
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: alone to make sure that the child did not have
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: a gastro intestinal or stomach or intestinal malle Time Stories
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Hearing the couple's initial court appearance, a
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: defense lawyer argued that the eighteen month old baby been
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: six for six months prior to death, But what the
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  Speaker 1: defense is up against is that the autopsy report says
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  Speaker 1: that the baby died from mal nutrition. That is what
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: the autopsy report shows, So too, doctor Tim Gallagher, how
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  Speaker 1: would the autopsy What would the child's body look like
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  Speaker 1: if it had been malnourished, died of malnourishment. Well, naturally,
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  Speaker 1: there would be no apparent fat on the body. The intestines.
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  Speaker 1: Once the inspection of the intestines will reveal that there
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  Speaker 1: is no food in the upper part of the intestine
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  Speaker 1: and no stool in the lower part of the intestine.
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  Speaker 1: Plus all the measurements that we do, the circumference of
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: the head, the circumference of the stomach, the length of
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the body, each and all of the limbs would be
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: well under what would be considered normal. Well, that doesn't
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  Speaker 1: mean anything to me, doctor Gallagher, about the length, because
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  Speaker 1: when Lucy was in my stomach, all the dactors told
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: me that she was progressing perfectly. When she was born,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: John David weighed over five pounds. She barely weighed two pounds.
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  Speaker 1: Her body was the right length, but she was not
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  Speaker 1: getting the nourishment. So I don't know if I agree
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: with you. Of course, I'm a JD. You're an MD
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  Speaker 1: that the length of the body means anything. Am I
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: totally off base? Well, it would have to be not
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: just the length, that's the one that's not the measurement
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: you want to key in on. But it's the circumference
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: of the stomach, the weight of the organs, it's the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: entire body taken as a whole. Okay, so if you look, so,
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  Speaker 1: if you look at somebody who is normal compared to
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  Speaker 1: somebody who was malnourished, you're going to see obvious differences
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: in the sizes of the exterior and when you go
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: inside the body you'll see the same thing on the inside. Well,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: we have another issue. I'm gonna throw this at John Muska,
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  Speaker 1: the lawyer for Sheila O'Leary, the mom in this case.
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  Speaker 1: I guarantee you John, you're going to face an issue
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: in that people judge the mom or harshly than than
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the dad. You know, doctor Daniel Bober, Forensics, psychiatrists joining
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: me out of the floor to jurisdiction. Why is it
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: that in a case like this, people are gonna blame
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: the mom more than the dad. You know, I think
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: you know in divorce cases they always say that the
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: child should go to the mother too, so I think
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: both parents probably share blame equally. But you know, society
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: has preconceived notions about gender roles. No offense, but that's
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: totally not my question. Go ahead. I think society has
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: preconceived notions about gender roles, so I think that's what
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: it has to do it. Okay, I guess you know
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: if everybody searches your heart, I know you love your
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: dad because my dad was closest person in the world
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: to me and I miss him every single day. But
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: when you skin your knee, when you're in trouble, when
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you get out of jail or you're on the run,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: who do you go to? Mommy? Mommy, it's always mommy.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: You look on the inmates in the jailhouse, who do
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: they have tattooed on their arm? Mommy? They don't have Daddy. No,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know why that is. I'm not a shrink,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: but I guarantee you Musca, at trial, they're gonna judge
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: mommy more harshly than dad, unless you can come up
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: with a battered women syndrome defense where she was afraid
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: to do anything other than what she did. Also, is
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: it true that your clients Sheila has a prior case
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: out of Virginia because her oldest daughter had been placed
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: in state custody for failure to thrive and severe malnutrition
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: that had already happened in Virginia. Well, Nancy, I can
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: confirm only that that matter out of Virginia has been closed.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: But I don't I don't believe defense counsel. Well, oh, wait,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: what matter? What matter in virtu indicated that you're inquiring
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: about some type of matter in Virginia. Correct, Okay, I
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: was inquiring about a case out of Virginia that mom's,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Sheila O'Leary, now thirty five, had when our eldest daughter
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: was put in state custody over a failure to thrive
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: and severe malnutrition. Now that happened in Virginia, and then
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: they moved to Florida. I also know the prosecutor said
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: that one of the children had to have teeth pulled
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: because of severe decay and malnutrition. Hold on just a moment,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: let me go to our doctor, doctor Gallagher. Doctor Gallagher,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: when doctors or teachers or nurses see any type of
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: neglect or what they think is neglect, I mean, MUSCA
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: may have a perfectly good reason to explain all this,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: which I doubt musca no offense, but don't dentists if
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: given the opportunity, Okay, no, go ahead, go I want
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: to hear it. And you mentioned defense Council would need
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: to have a good reason, you know, a battered women's
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: under mine. I don't believe. I don't believe we need that.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I believe we need to posit solid alternate theories that
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: speak to both the cause and the manner of death,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: alternative to neglect. And I believe once the evidence is
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: revealed and the facts become known, I believe that we're
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: going to be successful doing just that. As you know, Nancy,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: with first degree murder, it's premeditation you mentioned earlier. Premeditation
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that means that the prosecutor is going to need to
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: prove that Sheila had to have knowledge that she was
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: harming the child in a knowing or intentional manner, and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: we believe that that's going to be difficult to prove. Remember,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: it's the mental state as well that they need to
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: prove the need to somehow get into her head and
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: establish that as a key element of the offense. And
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: we simply don't believe that they're going to be able
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: to prove that. Well. John Muska is joining maybe a
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: lawyer for Sheila O. Leary at Musca law dot com.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Does she have any type of mental or emotional impairment? Well,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: that we're not going to be able to get into
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: as that's protected by the attorney claim privilege. Nancy, I'm
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: not able to comment on that. And again we're still
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: learning more and more about this case daily, okay, And
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I understand that that's going to be an offensive trial.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: You want to keep that close to your vest. But
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: under the law, premeditation can be formed in a moment,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: in the twinkling of an eye and the time it
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: takes you to pull a trigger. If you have already
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: told police you didn't feed your baby for a week,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the baby had never been to the doctor in eighteen
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: months according to police, You've got other children with their
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: teeth getting pulled because of malnutrition and a prior incident
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: in Virginia. Doesn't have to be a conviction where a
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: child is taken away because of malnutrition the law. If
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: all that is true and there is no mental impairment,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: wouldn't that equal premeditation? To doctor Bober, for instance, psychiatrists
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: wouldn't that qualify it? I agree with you, Nancy, you know,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: specifically with the time period. I mean it could be
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: eighteen months, and it could even be a second. I
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: think that's uh, that would be enough to qualify for
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: premeditation crime. Stories with Nancy, Grace got a question, what
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: can you tell me about their vegan diet. John Musca
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: very particular about and making sure that the children were
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: fed in a healthy manner. Vegan diet and as we
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: would know, would include nuts, beans, cantaloupes, potatoes, bananas, just
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: you know, anything, anything and everything that was healthy. Most vegetables.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: The children ate a lot of homegrown tomatoes, cucumbers, homegrown tomatillos,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: even figs. They are around the healthiest of diets, the
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: healthiest of diets. But they, according to police and all
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: the documents, were malnourished. There had been a previous case
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: of malnourishment in Virginia. So you know, you say it's
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a great vegan diet, but they weren't getting enough to eat.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Their teeth were rotting out in pull because of malnourishment.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Another issue I don't quite understand. To doctor Daniel bober
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Neighbors reportedly claimed they did not notice anything wrong. What
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: can you tell us about signs of neglect that are
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: missed well? And Nancy, you know, in a lot of cases,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: families will try to conceal it from their neighbors because
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: they know that the neighbors are probably the first people
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: that are going to be calling the authorities. So I
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: would say that very often attempts will be made to
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: even prevent the child from speaking to the neighbors, having
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: any outside contact, because they do want to keep things
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: a secret and sweeping under the road. You know. Also,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I think that to Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Bare Bones Consulting, when you're speaking to neighbors, very often
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: they may see the children, but they're not close enough
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: to realize something is wrong. And very typically children are
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: not going they're out of fear or they're shy. Are
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: not going to go up to people and say I'm hungry. No,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: they won't. And when neighbors see children may be playing
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: out in the yard, they're closed, Nancy, they have clothes on.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: They're not seeing these children without their clothes on, and
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: that may be a telltale sign. They may be happy,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: go lucky kids playing in the yard. We're talking about
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: an eighteen month old baby here that is now deceased.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: And when you go in the crime scene of something
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: like that, the hardest thing to do is stay clinical
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and stay objective. That's my job. My job is not
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: to hamstring anyone. My job is to go in and
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: find the evidence, to collect it, photographs everything. The mother
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: alleged she was breastfeeding the child. Was she pumping breast milk?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Was there any in the fridge? Did she have a
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: warmer for the bottles? What kind of food was in
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: the cabinets, what was in the refrigerator, What did the
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: environment look like? Where were they sleeping? All of those
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: things would be my job to collect and document. And
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: in this case, I really don't know what they had
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: or what they didn't, But I do know that one
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: of the investigators on the scene said it was horrible,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: and I really don't know what that means. We don't
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: know what that means. We've got to get detailed police reports.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: But I do know this. The autopsy is in the
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: medical examiner says that the taught died complications relating to malnutrition, dehydration,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: micro steatosis of liver, and swelling of hands, feet, and legs.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: What does all that mean, doctor Gallagher. Yeah, that's probably
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: what we would expect to find in somebody who died
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: of malnutrition. So when you draw blood on somebody who's malnourished,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: it is highly viscous, meaning is very thick because there's
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: no water present in the body that the rest of
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: you know. The same goes for the other blood results
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: that you'll get. They certainly would show a pattern of
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: dehydration and malnutrition in terms of having low protein in
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: those fluids. Microsteatosis of the liver is of the there
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: is no protein to support the growth of the liver,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: and steatosis is fatty infiltration of the liver, and if
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you have fat in the liver, then the normal function
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: of the liver is compromised. Right, You're to a point
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: where even if you do get food, Right, You're to
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: a point where, even if you do get food, that
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: you will not be able to process it and recover
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: from this level of malnutrition. Take a listener, friends at
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Fox four. This is Jessica Alprin describing what happened. Going
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: back to those neighbors that I had been speaking with.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: They were again describing a very chaotic scene out here
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: in their home. They say when those officers showed up,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: they saw some of the children being taken away, but
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: they also saw officers going behind the home of the o'learies,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: checking even in the garbage cans to see if there
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: was new evidence even there. So again, neighbors just out
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: here this morning with a lot of questions. They'll remain
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: exactly what happened to that child. We're still working to
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: figure out the relationship of the o'learis, Patrick Ryan, Patrick O'Leary,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: and Sheila O'Leary, And again, neighbors describing to us that
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: they believe at least four children lived inside of this home.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: We do it does sound from those neighbors that all
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: of those children have been taken away ever since that
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: initial death investigation that took place here in September. So
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: we're working to put the pieces together for you, and
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: as soon as we have new information, will be sure
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to update you both on air and online. The indictment
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: also includes three other victims, a three year old, a
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: five year old, and an eleven year old, who it
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: is alleged suffered from child abuse an extreme neglect. The
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: alleged crimes occurred during twenty nineteen in Cape Coral. The
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: evidence in the crime scene in these cases are gut wrenching.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: As a mother and a state attorney, these are images
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I will never be able to forget. I'm very curious
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: about what else was found at the scene. We are
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: learning that the neighbors described as chaotic saying with a
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: children being taken away from their home to doctor Daniel
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Bob or forensics psychiatrists. What effect will that have on
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: the siblings, the ones that lived, Yes, Nancy, you know
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: it's going to be traumatic for them and it's currently
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: they will you know, need therapy or counseling to help
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: them deal with this. Well, I guess so. And how
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: do you get over to doctor Tim Gallagher? Or extreme
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: malnourishment to the point that your teeth have to be
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: pulled out, that's going to be very difficult, Nancy. They're
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: going to have to if it's possible to even recover
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: from this type of malnutrition, they will need intravenous fluid
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: or intravenous protein material through their bloodstream, so we can
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: go directly to their organs and try to resuscitate them
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: or try to get them going again. So this is
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: going to be a very difficult, very long process, and
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I would imagine somebody who was in their adolescence it
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: would probably take six months or maybe even a full
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: year to recover totally. Take a listen to our friends
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: at NBC two. This is Megan Bragg. We're also learning
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: the three other children in the home were only allowed
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: to eat raw fruits and vegetables, and two of them
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: were severely underweight. Sheila and Ryan did admit to police
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: they thought something was wrong with her baby weeks before,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: but didn't call for help. In this nine page report
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: just obtained by NBC two, Sheila tells police the baby
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: became six six months ago and was throwing up and
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: lost weight about a week before the baby died. Sheila
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: says they're eighteen month old, stopped eating and would only
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: breastfeed occasionally. The medical examiner says the baby was extremely malnourished, dehydrated,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: and feet were swollen. Sheila says the baby has never
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: been to the doctor. Was born inside their home. Cape
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Coral police also say two other children were also extremely
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: underweight and one of their children's teeth were rotting. Sheila
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: told police the family would sleep in the living room
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: with one child on a hammock and another on a dogbed.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Sheila and Ryan did admit
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: to police they thought something was wrong with her baby
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: weeks before, but didn't call for help. In this nine
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: page report just obtained by NBC two, Sheila tells police
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: the baby became sick six months ago and was throwing
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: up and lost weight about a week before the baby died.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Sheila says they're eighteen month old, stopped eating and would
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: only breastfeed occasionally. The medical examiner says the baby was
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: extremely malnourished, dehydrated, and feet were swollen. Sheila says the
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: baby has never been to the doctor and was born
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: inside their home. Cape Coral. Police also say two other
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: children were also extremely underweight and one of their children's
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: teeth were rotting. Sheila told police the family would sleep
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: in the living room with one child on a hammock
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: and another on a dogbed. Sheila O'Leary's attorney told me
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: all the kids living in this home were healthy and
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: now I did ask him about the claims of malnourishment,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: and he says o'larry actually breastfed her son just a
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: few hours before he died. So he doesn't think malnutrition
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: was the cause of death. Now, Sheila O'Leary and her
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: husband Ryan face a manslaughter charge after their baby died
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: here back in September. They turned themselves in last night
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: after the medical examiner revealed malnutrition caused the baby's death.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Alariy's attorney, John Muska told me on Skye today that
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: his client was so religious that she did not allow
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: any of her four kids to watch television. He also
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: says she's vegan but fed her children balanced mills. But
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: he did say there were health concerns regarding the toddler
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: before he died. The child had been sick six months
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: prior and had not fully recuperated. The child had started
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: eating better, and then the child began teething, and the
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: mother was concerned, very concerned that that was causing him
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: to not eat as well. You're hearing attorney John Muska,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: who's with us right now along with Fox Foreign Knees
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: reporter Rachel Lloyd. So how do you combat at trial, John,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: when the medical examiner says cause of death is malnutrition,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: starved to death? How do you fight that and say, though, no, no, no,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: that's not why I died. Well, the cause of death
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: may be listed as malnutrition on the corners or port Nancy,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: but the manner of death is listed as an accident.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: And as I'm sure you know, if the suggestion was homicide,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: the manner of death would be listed as such on
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: the corners or and it's not. Also with respect to
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: the cause of death indicated as malnutrition is this is
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: one medical examiner's opinion and one examiner's opinion alone, and
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: so so we're optimistic. Okay, I understand that. I got
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: another question for you. Why is one of the children
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: sleeping in a hammock and another child sleeping in a
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: dog bed? Nancy? I don't I don't have any answer
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to that, Okay. You know that's going to be something
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: fun for you to face at trial. Back to the
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: medical exam, we're joining US Chief Medical exam Er for
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the State of Florida's doctor Tim Gallagher. You know, I'm
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: listening to what John Musk is saying at MUSCA law
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: dot com. What do you make of the claim that?
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: And you know when the lawyer says something like he'd
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: been sick for six months, the lawyers getting that from
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: somewhere Muscat to just make that up. That had to
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: come from either the mom or the dad or someone
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: related to the family. So wouldn't that have shown up
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: in the medical examiners report number one and number two?
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: How can the malnourishment, the starving of a child be
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: an accident because it takes at least a week for
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: a child to starve to death. Good questions, Nancy, You
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: know the the second part of the question would be,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: you know, why is it an accident? Well, you know
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: he did mention that it is. There is one medical
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: examiner's opinion. So based on the totality of the evidence
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: provided to the medical examiner at the time of the autopsy,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: they were unable to determine at that time if it
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: was intentional or if it was an accident. Other medical
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: examiners may put the manner of death as undetermined, but
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: he felt confident enough to say that it was an
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: actual How can starving a child? Okay, let me try
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: to rephrase my question. How can a child starve to
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: death over a period of at least seven days and
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: that be an accident? Doctor Gallagher, That's a great question
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: and a great question to ask the medical examiner who
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: did the autopsy. Um, But again, that was his opinion.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Why is it an accident? I really don't have an
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: answer for that. Maybe he was not a praise of
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: all of the information at the time that he did
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: do the autopsy. And I believe that would be the
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: most likely cause, Nancy, we could go ahead, jump. We
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: could have many many causes underlying causes of malnutrition which
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: could eventually lead to lead to dehydration and death. You know,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: children suffering from a very intense flu virus, children having
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: an allergic reaction to a certain food type of food groups,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: which which leads to malnutrition and leads to death. So
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I think we're I think we're I think we need
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: to put away the butcher knives and the pitchforks and
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: not make make a rush to job dgment on exactly
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: what the cause of death was here. But clearly, this
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: particular medical examiner, on this particular day made the conclusion
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: that the cause of death was malnutrition. And obviously, well, John,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I hear you, I hear you. Don't have a pitchfork
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: in my hand, but I do have twelve year old
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: twins boy girl, who I nursed to health when they
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: were born extremely premature, and one greatly malnourished in utero.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I do know that much, and you're right. I don't
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: have an MD MD, I have a JD, but I
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: know this much. I don't need an MD to tell
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: me something is very wrong when your children's teeth are
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: black because of mal nourishment. And I know I don't
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: need anybody to tell me. I know there's something wrong
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: when a baby sleeps in a dog bed on the floor.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I know that nobody needs to tell me that that
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: is going to be your uphill battle. And John Muska,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not attacking you. You are what we want in
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: America because when people are charged with crimes, we need
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: lawyers that are ready, willing and able to defend them
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: with all ethical possibilities. But this is just a tiny
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: bit of what you are up against. Listen to Wink
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: reporter Anika. At first glance, you'd never know the scope
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: of suffering. Police say happened at this house. But after
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: spending the day in the neighborhood, I can tell there's
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: a sense of anger and sadness, sadness for the suffering.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: The children who lived in this house went through an
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: anger at the parents. Detectives say, let it all happen.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: The medical examiner says, in this house, a little boy
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: starved to death, and police likely saved his two older sisters,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: ages three and five, from a similar fate. As a neighbor,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I wish that there was something that I wouldn't go
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: and as a mom, it's horrible. It's horrible. Investigators point
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: the finger at their parents, Sheila and Ryan, and O'Leary's
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: shocking to find that out, especially with little children, he said,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: those four children there was Police removed the surviving three
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: children from the O'Leary's care when they found the eighteen
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: month old victim dead. In the last days the mom
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: and dad were both in court. They both have pled
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: not guilty to murder and other charges stemming from the
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: death of their eighteen month old child, Ezra Sage O'Leary.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Those charges first degree murder, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: child abuse, two count's child neglect. We wait as justice unfolds.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace's crime story, signing off Goodbye friend,