Latest / Space News Today / Artemis 2 Success, ESO Fallout & The Intriguing World of X-Ray Binaries | Space Nuts: Astronomy...

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Artemis 2 Success, ESO Fallout & The Intriguing World of X-Ray Binaries | Space Nuts: Astronomy... · Space News Today

• 0:00
  Hello again. Thanks for joining us on
• 0:02
  this yet another edition of Space Nuts,
• 0:06
  where we talk astronomy and space
• 0:08
  science. My name is Andrew Dunley, your
• 0:10
  host. Great to have your company. Coming
• 0:12
  up on a fresh episode, Arteimus 2 making
• 0:15
  headlines for all the right reasons.
• 0:17
  What a sigh of relief that was. Did you
• 0:19
  watch the launch? I sure did. Uh, but
• 0:22
  some bad news for the Australia ESO
• 0:24
  deal, which has got astronomers upset.
• 0:27
  One in particular I can think of. what's
• 0:28
  his name again? And the discovery of an
• 0:31
  X-ray binary. That's all coming up in
• 0:33
  this edition of Space Nuts.
• 0:36
  >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
• 0:41
  Ignition sequence start.
• 0:42
  >> Space Nuts.
• 0:43
  >> 5 4 3 2
• 0:46
  >> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
• 0:48
  >> Space Nuts.
• 0:49
  >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
• 0:52
  >> Just wondering what an X-ray binary is.
• 0:54
  It sounds like something you could get
• 0:55
  arrested for. And joining us to talk
• 0:58
  about all of that is Professor Fred
• 1:00
  Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,
• 1:02
  Fred.
• 1:02
  >> Hello, Andrew. And uh I I pick you up on
• 1:06
  that because I nearly got arrested once
• 1:07
  for doing astronomy with a an old brass
• 1:10
  telescope in the front garden, which the
• 1:13
  neighbors thought was a bazooka. Uh and
• 1:15
  so I had a visit from a very large
• 1:17
  policeman. I think I was uh 16 or 17 at
• 1:20
  the time
• 1:22
  >> cuz these these days you'd get accused
• 1:24
  of of being a peeping tom or something,
• 1:27
  >> but back back then they thought it was a
• 1:29
  weapon.
• 1:30
  >> The reason why they do have weaponike,
• 1:34
  >> you know, looks them, don't they?
• 1:35
  >> Yeah, they look like a gun. That's
• 1:37
  right. The reason why I didn't um I
• 1:39
  didn't get uh any complaints about being
• 1:42
  a peeping tom was that our front garden
• 1:44
  overlooked the cemetery uh and there
• 1:46
  wasn't anybody around to complain.
• 1:49
  >> That's Yeah. Okay. Lots of things come
• 1:52
  to mind, but I'll I'll just I won't go
• 1:54
  there. Won't go there.
• 1:55
  >> No. But yes, like Yeah. When when was
• 1:59
  that?
• 2:01
  >> The early 1960s. Yeah. Uh-huh.
• 2:03
  >> Long after the Second World War, which
• 2:05
  is where why bazookas were on people's
• 2:07
  minds.
• 2:08
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Everyone was still super
• 2:10
  sensitive, I guess.
• 2:12
  >> Fred, it's been an exciting week. I know
• 2:14
  this is podcast, so some people will
• 2:15
  hear this well after the fact. But, uh,
• 2:18
  the other day, Artemis 2 lifted off very
• 2:21
  successfully, which was very, very
• 2:23
  exciting. And I watched it live on NASA
• 2:27
  live, which a lot of people did. There
• 2:29
  were tens of thousands of people logged
• 2:31
  on and the system held up and I just
• 2:34
  watched the whole thing. I had it on my
• 2:36
  computer. I sat there and I just I
• 2:39
  watched the whole hour build up to the
• 2:41
  to the launch and and watched it all
• 2:43
  unfold. And it went something like this.
• 2:46
  10 9 8 7 RS25 engines. 8 4 3 2 1 booster
• 2:57
  ignition and liftoff.
• 3:00
  The crew of Artemis 2 now bound for the
• 3:03
  moon. Humanity's next great voyage
• 3:05
  begins.
• 3:07
  >> How cool is that? How cool. And and
• 3:09
  those engines, the the sound of those
• 3:11
  engines, even over the over the internet
• 3:13
  on a on a shony microphone cuz NASA
• 3:16
  can't really afford good stuff. Um, no,
• 3:19
  that it sounded You want to hear that
• 3:21
  again? That that that that just the
• 3:23
  sound of the engines. Okay. All right.
• 3:29
  >> No, that was just me blowing into the
• 3:31
  microphone, but um yeah, fantastic
• 3:34
  stuff. Uh it was so exciting to watch. I
• 3:37
  um I really got a big kick out of it and
• 3:39
  uh you could hear the crowd cheering at
• 3:40
  one stage. It was so loud that the
• 3:43
  microphones picked up the crowd and um
• 3:45
  yeah it was an amazing moment and of
• 3:47
  course as we speak today they have
• 3:51
  reached the moon and done their lap.
• 3:53
  They went onto the dark side and uh all
• 3:56
  that loss talk was being spoken of with
• 3:59
  loss of signal. I mean, they were
• 4:00
  blocked out by a big rock and um and
• 4:04
  they achieved so much. I think uh yeah,
• 4:06
  it's been a pretty exciting week, hasn't
• 4:08
  it, Fred?
• 4:09
  >> You can say that again. And that um that
• 4:12
  live broadcast that you're talking
• 4:14
  about, um I've still got it on in
• 4:18
  this afternoon.
• 4:19
  >> Yeah, we're we're getting updates uh uh
• 4:22
  all the time. And you know, this is kind
• 4:24
  of NASA at his best, isn't it really?
• 4:26
  It's just uh such a fantastic
• 4:29
  achievement for us to see this mission
• 4:32
  uh going so profoundly well. Um uh you
• 4:36
  said the uh the trans traverse behind
• 4:40
  the moon has taken place. Uh now um
• 4:42
  there was a 40-minute loss of signal
• 4:44
  which you'd expect for exactly the
• 4:46
  reason that you mentioned. Uh the moon
• 4:48
  is a big rock and gets in the way of
• 4:50
  sign of radio signals. But also what the
• 4:53
  astronauts on board Arteimus saw was an
• 4:56
  eclipse of the sun. So the moon's disc
• 4:59
  actually covered the sun. Now from our
• 5:02
  vantage point on Earth, the sun and the
• 5:04
  moon look to be the same size. It's one
• 5:06
  of the most curious cosmic coincidences
• 5:08
  that we've got our satellite and the and
• 5:11
  our star which have the same angular
• 5:14
  size half a degree in the sky. But of
• 5:16
  course from the vantage point of the u
• 5:18
  of the Arteimus astronauts uh who are
• 5:21
  roughly 6,000 kilometers from the moon's
• 5:24
  surface at the moment uh the moon is is
• 5:26
  a lot bigger and so yes they did see an
• 5:29
  eclipse uh and as the moon covered the
• 5:33
  disc of the sun they would see first of
• 5:35
  all the inner atmosphere of the sun what
• 5:37
  we call the chromosphere which often has
• 5:39
  pink uh glowing clouds of hydrogen on it
• 5:42
  but more especially they would have seen
• 5:44
  the corona the sun's outer atmosphere,
• 5:46
  which is what uh captivates eclipse
• 5:49
  goers whenever they go and see a total
• 5:51
  eclipse of the sun. And I can't resist
• 5:53
  there a plug for 22nd of July, 2028 when
• 5:57
  a total eclipse of the sun uh will see
• 6:00
  the moon shadow passing over both where
• 6:02
  you're sitting at the moment in do and
• 6:04
  where I'm sitting at the moment in
• 6:06
  Sydney. That's going to be a huge event.
• 6:08
  Perhaps not quite as momentous as seeing
• 6:10
  it from a spacecraft on the far side of
• 6:12
  the moon, but still pretty good. uh and
• 6:15
  uh you know the the astronauts are
• 6:17
  indeed now on their way home. They in a
• 6:20
  sense they've been on their way home
• 6:22
  ever since they left Earth orbit because
• 6:24
  the trajectory that um that the rocket
• 6:28
  was inserted into the the Trans Luna
• 6:30
  insertion move uh which took place above
• 6:33
  the Earth's surface that that really
• 6:36
  placed them on on a path that inevitably
• 6:39
  would take them in a figure of eight uh
• 6:41
  loop around the moon and bring them back
• 6:43
  to Earth. Uh now there are midcourse
• 6:47
  connection sorry corrections. I think
• 6:49
  there is one planned for later today uh
• 6:53
  uh after which I think the um the
• 6:56
  astronauts are going to be given some
• 6:58
  time to themselves because they've been
• 7:00
  pretty hard at work in the last 24 hours
• 7:02
  with the with the lunar far side flyby.
• 7:04
  >> Absolutely. Uh they've achieved so much
• 7:07
  today. Um the four astronauts Reed
• 7:10
  Weisman, Victor Glover, Christina Ko or
• 7:13
  Kosh depending on how you want to
• 7:15
  pronounce it, Jeremy Hansen uh have
• 7:17
  become the um the first humans to go
• 7:21
  beyond where Apollo 13 set the record
• 7:24
  for the first furthest distance for
• 7:26
  humans from Earth. So they are now world
• 7:30
  record holders. Is it a world record
• 7:32
  when you're not on the world?
• 7:33
  >> I don't
• 7:35
  It's a solar system record. Yes, the um
• 7:39
  yes indeed the distance 47,000
• 7:42
  kilometers from Earth
• 7:44
  >> uh which uh and I think it was about
• 7:47
  400,000 that the Apollo 13 astronauts
• 7:50
  flew out. So it's a significant increase
• 7:53
  from that more than 6,000 km.
• 7:55
  >> So the most isolated humans in history
• 7:57
  in real terms.
• 7:59
  >> Yes, in a that's right in a sense. Um
• 8:01
  and they probably felt like that when
• 8:03
  they were out of communication for that
• 8:04
  40 minutes when they were in the moon
• 8:06
  shadow from radio signals from Earth.
• 8:08
  >> M yeah and uh one while I was listening
• 8:12
  to the live broadcast uh this afternoon
• 8:15
  our time uh I heard them talking about
• 8:19
  seeing uh meteorite flashes on the
• 8:21
  surface of the moon. They they spotted
• 8:24
  uh three four impacts while they were um
• 8:28
  rounding the moon which I I find
• 8:29
  astounding and it was really exciting
• 8:31
  for everybody especially the science
• 8:33
  team that were talking to them at that
• 8:35
  moment.
• 8:37
  >> Now that I didn't hear so that's great.
• 8:39
  That's great.
• 8:39
  >> Yeah. Quite incredible. Yeah. So, you
• 8:42
  know, things are happening that you just
• 8:43
  you wouldn't. And and apparently where
• 8:46
  the where these impacts happened, people
• 8:49
  on Earth who were observing the moon at
• 8:50
  the time may well have seen them, too.
• 8:53
  >> So, um I don't know if it's just a
• 8:56
  coincidence. We just happen to have a
• 8:58
  spaceship right there at the time or
• 9:00
  this happens a lot.
• 9:01
  >> I think it's happening a lot. I think
• 9:03
  that's the bottom line. It's um um you
• 9:06
  know these things have been observed
• 9:08
  actually since the 1950s when they were
• 9:10
  called transient lunar events which we
• 9:12
  now know are as you said meteorite
• 9:14
  impacts. Um I also noted that uh two
• 9:19
  relatively fresh and unnamed craters
• 9:22
  have been uh given a name by the uh
• 9:25
  astronauts. One is is integrity which is
• 9:28
  the name of the spacecraft and the other
• 9:30
  is Carol which is the name of Reed
• 9:32
  Wiseman's late wife who died a few years
• 9:34
  ago.
• 9:35
  >> Yeah. Lovely lovely stuff. Yeah.
• 9:39
  >> Yeah. And more more to be written I
• 9:42
  suppose as this mission unfolds. Um and
• 9:45
  and so far so good. um and a whole new
• 9:48
  generation um feeling the same
• 9:50
  excitement we did back in the 60s and
• 9:53
  70s when the Apollo missions did exactly
• 9:56
  the same thing. This this flyby is
• 9:58
  probably a replication of what Apollo 8
• 10:01
  I think
• 10:02
  >> very much. Yeah, very similar to Apollo
• 10:04
  8. December 1968 I remember it well.
• 10:07
  >> Christmas was
• 10:09
  >> it was Yeah, that's right. Christmas Eve
• 10:11
  I think it might have been but it
• 10:12
  depends on your time zone. It's sort of
• 10:15
  um occurred to me a couple of times. I'm
• 10:17
  kind of rambling a bit now, but um in a
• 10:22
  perhaps a quai Trumpian manner. Uh but
• 10:25
  um I think it's really interesting to me
• 10:28
  because my career in astronomy, my
• 10:30
  working career in astronomy is kind of
• 10:32
  bookended by lunar missions. Um because
• 10:36
  it was early in my career that we were
• 10:38
  watching all the Apollo flights and I
• 10:40
  don't think anyone even with the best
• 10:41
  will in the world would deny that I'm
• 10:43
  now late in my career and we've got the
• 10:46
  Optimus excitement coming as well. It's
• 10:48
  just great stuff. It is fabulous stuff
• 10:50
  and you can read all about it or even
• 10:52
  watch it live as it happens which we
• 10:55
  really couldn't do back in the 60s and
• 10:57
  70s. Not like this. We had to rely on
• 10:59
  television but now you can just log on
• 11:01
  to NASA live and watch it all happen in
• 11:04
  real time. s. Fantastic stuff. Yeah. Uh,
• 11:07
  so more more to talk about down the
• 11:09
  track, I'm sure, but uh, if you've been
• 11:10
  following it, well, you probably know
• 11:12
  more than we do. This is Space Nuts with
• 11:14
  Andrew Dunley and Professor Fred Watson.
• 11:18
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• 11:21
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• 12:51
  >> The crew of Artemis 2 now bound for the
• 12:53
  moon. Humanity's next great voyage
• 12:56
  begins.
• 12:57
  >> Space nuts. Now Fred, we go from
• 13:00
  excitement to something um quite uh
• 13:04
  upsetting for Australian astronomers,
• 13:06
  including yourself, and that is an
• 13:09
  announcement by the Australian
• 13:10
  government to um discontinue
• 13:14
  uh the the deal with um the European
• 13:18
  Southern Observatory. It's uh all over
• 13:20
  Red Rover by the sound of it.
• 13:22
  >> Uh yes. Yes, we still hope for um
• 13:28
  something to come out of all this, but
• 13:31
  the backstory here is that Australian
• 13:33
  astronomers uh since 2017 have had
• 13:37
  access to the best telescopes in the
• 13:40
  southern hemisphere without question,
• 13:42
  the best optical telescopes anyway,
• 13:43
  visible light telescopes, which are
• 13:45
  operated by the European Southern
• 13:47
  Observatory, whose headquarters are in
• 13:48
  Munich uh and whose telescopes are in
• 13:51
  northern Chile. uh and um those
• 13:56
  principally the the biggest uh
• 13:57
  telescopes are the four 8.2 2 meter
• 14:01
  components of what's called the VT the
• 14:03
  very large telescope uh which have been
• 14:07
  you know so which um Australian
• 14:09
  astronomers have have had access to
• 14:10
  since 2017 uh and has been a highly
• 14:14
  productive arrangement not just for the
• 14:16
  astronomers but also because our
• 14:18
  instrument builders here in Australia
• 14:20
  the people who build the fancy
• 14:21
  instruments that go on the back of
• 14:23
  telescopes um are um they are have have
• 14:28
  excelled themselves with what they've
• 14:30
  achieved uh because of the you know the
• 14:33
  opportunities to build a kit for these
• 14:35
  giant telescopes. So and plus all the
• 14:39
  spin-offs in terms of education and STEM
• 14:41
  and outreach and all the rest of it
• 14:43
  which we've tried to capitalize on. Um
• 14:46
  but that partnership was always going to
• 14:50
  be a 10-year deal. So 2017 to 2027, it
• 14:54
  comes to an end in December next year.
• 14:56
  >> And uh we in the astronomy community uh
• 15:00
  I started worrying about this actually
• 15:02
  in 2018. Uh what was going to happen
• 15:04
  next uh and to to make a case for the
• 15:08
  next step which would have to be
• 15:10
  according to the rules of the European
• 15:12
  Southern Observatory would have to be
• 15:14
  full membership. Um and that is the
• 15:17
  stumbling block because whilst um whilst
• 15:22
  10 years of strategic partnership were
• 15:25
  valued at 129 million Australian
• 15:28
  dollars, 10 years of full membership is
• 15:32
  $400 million uh nearly half a billion
• 15:36
  and that is something that governments
• 15:38
  don't like big numbers like that. uh and
• 15:41
  especially in times of financial
• 15:43
  stringent which we understand. Um
• 15:46
  however we do think that the government
• 15:49
  could have looked rather more
• 15:50
  constructively at other possible
• 15:52
  opportunities uh before making this
• 15:55
  announcement. Uh and there may be still
• 15:58
  scope for that. Um we've you know we've
• 16:00
  discussed things like uh Australian
• 16:03
  astronomers making inind contributions
• 16:05
  to ESO European Southern Observatory by
• 16:08
  for example building uh instruments in
• 16:11
  including the possibility of a new
• 16:13
  telescope here in Australia that could
• 16:16
  be uh actually um installed in the site
• 16:21
  near the site where the VT very large
• 16:24
  telescope uh unit instruments are
• 16:26
  situated at place called Sarah for
• 16:28
  paranal. Perhaps the most glawing thing
• 16:30
  about this though, Andrew, is that we
• 16:33
  have uh
• 16:35
  our membership, if we were to become
• 16:39
  members of ESO, would give us access to
• 16:41
  what is going to be the most stupendous
• 16:45
  telescope in the world when it comes on
• 16:47
  stream early in 2029. That is the
• 16:49
  European Southern Observatory's ELT or
• 16:52
  extremely large telescope. Sorry, one
• 16:55
  >> that's the one that that's as good a
• 16:57
  title because that's what it's going to
• 16:59
  be. Uh 39 meter diameter mirror. The the
• 17:03
  mirror diameter is 10 times that of the
• 17:06
  biggest telescope in Australia, the
• 17:07
  Anglo Australian telescope that I used
• 17:09
  to be astronomer in charge of. It's 10
• 17:11
  times bigger, which gives you a 100
• 17:13
  times the the sensitivity in terms of
• 17:15
  light gathering power and plus many
• 17:17
  other benefits. That will come on stream
• 17:19
  2029. Um it is sure to generate Nobel
• 17:22
  prizes. uh Australian astronomers will
• 17:25
  be barred from that and the great pity
• 17:26
  of that is uh that Australian
• 17:29
  astronomers have access uh to the square
• 17:32
  kilometer array which will come online
• 17:34
  at about the same time. Uh and to have
• 17:37
  those two things together under the you
• 17:40
  know the opaces of Australian astronomy
• 17:42
  would have given them a head start over
• 17:44
  the whole world in terms of discoveries.
• 17:46
  uh because the two things absolutely
• 17:48
  dovetail together the SKA and the uh ESO
• 17:52
  ELT that is not now going to happen and
• 17:55
  we feel that's a wasted opportunity and
• 17:57
  I might just add one more thing if I may
• 18:00
  because this is um this is a you know uh
• 18:03
  it is something very close to my heart
• 18:05
  I've worked very hard on this for the
• 18:07
  last almost decade um there is a there
• 18:10
  was a report that came out uh last month
• 18:14
  written by one of the country's senior
• 18:17
  economists
• 18:18
  uh a man named Professor Richard Holden
• 18:21
  and uh he's at the University of New
• 18:23
  South Wales here in Australia. He has
• 18:26
  done an analysis of the economic
• 18:28
  benefits of astronomy. Not just about,
• 18:32
  you know, the deals that you can do
• 18:34
  where you get money to build instruments
• 18:36
  and things of that sort. It's about the
• 18:37
  value of ideas, the the spin-offs that
• 18:40
  we have. All of those things um are
• 18:44
  taken into account in a report he wrote
• 18:46
  and he makes the point uh in conclusion
• 18:50
  in that report that Australian astronomy
• 18:52
  adds about $330 million per year to the
• 18:57
  country's economy. Uh which makes $40
• 19:00
  million a year for the ESO deal seem
• 19:03
  really quite proportionate. uh there
• 19:05
  would be a huge return on that $40
• 19:07
  million uh in terms of other benefits
• 19:09
  and that's what the government's missing
• 19:11
  out on. Yeah.
• 19:12
  >> Yeah. I think when we talked about this
• 19:13
  a few episodes ago u because we knew
• 19:17
  which was coming up
• 19:19
  >> um
• 19:21
  I I said something flippant like you
• 19:23
  know the left hand probably won't know
• 19:24
  what what the right hand's doing. So the
• 19:27
  the cost benefit versus cost, you know,
• 19:30
  the the benefit versus cost analysis may
• 19:32
  not get on the right desk and the
• 19:35
  decision could go against you. And I I
• 19:37
  was being a a smarty pants, but kind of
• 19:40
  looks like that's what's happened.
• 19:41
  >> Yeah. I don't actually I think it's uh
• 19:45
  different from that because um we made
• 19:48
  sure that the people who are making the
• 19:50
  decisions um and it's not Jordi by the
• 19:52
  way, but he makes his own decisions. I
• 19:54
  don't know whether you heard that.
• 19:56
  >> I did.
• 19:56
  >> The people Yeah. the people who were
• 19:58
  making the decisions um had access to
• 20:01
  that report. We made that very clear as
• 20:03
  soon as it came out. Um now um I'm
• 20:06
  suspect that the minister and his
• 20:09
  science advisers would also have had
• 20:10
  access to it. Uh so what they've done is
• 20:13
  they've turned their backs on that and
• 20:14
  they've turned their backs on on
• 20:17
  something that is very exciting in
• 20:20
  relation to our exploration of the
• 20:22
  universe at the very time when everybody
• 20:24
  else is looking skyward because of
• 20:26
  Arteimus. We we had this news on the day
• 20:30
  of the Arteimus 2 launch. Uh couldn't
• 20:33
  have been a bigger contrast between the
• 20:35
  two stories. And and where does this
• 20:37
  leave the likes of um the Australian
• 20:40
  Space Agency for example? I mean the
• 20:42
  government's established that or a
• 20:45
  former government did and they've been
• 20:46
  pouring money into it. Now now they've
• 20:48
  sort of shot the door in your face in
• 20:50
  regard to um
• 20:54
  the Europe the the um the work
• 20:57
  observatory.
• 20:58
  >> Yes, exactly. ESO um you know where does
• 21:02
  this put everything? Are we kind of
• 21:04
  going back to the dark ages?
• 21:06
  >> Um, no, no pun intended.
• 21:09
  >> No, no pun intended. No, we are going
• 21:10
  back probably several decades for
• 21:13
  Australian optical astronomy. But
• 21:15
  >> um the space agency has been likewise
• 21:19
  um chastised, if I can put it that way.
• 21:22
  They had large budget taken off them by
• 21:26
  the present government about three two
• 21:28
  three years ago. Uh, and I actually
• 21:31
  wonder if some of this is political
• 21:33
  because the space agency was was uh
• 21:36
  initiated by a previous government. Uh,
• 21:39
  and the ESO strategic partnership was
• 21:42
  initiated by a previous government of
• 21:44
  opposite flavor to what we have now.
• 21:47
  >> Um, so there might be a political side
• 21:49
  to it. I'm sure the minister would deny
• 21:51
  that. It takes all of
• 21:54
  >> course he would. that um I've seen
• 21:57
  politics in action and I I I can tell
• 21:59
  you quite clearly we I'll give you an
• 22:01
  example. We we were going to get a big
• 22:03
  sports hub in do
• 22:05
  and uh it was announced by our local
• 22:08
  member who was also the leader of um his
• 22:11
  party at the time and when they lost the
• 22:14
  next election the new premier of the
• 22:18
  opponent party took the money away and
• 22:21
  said no you can't have it.
• 22:23
  >> Yeah. and that that was purely political
• 22:26
  to you just basically to slap an
• 22:28
  opposition leader in the face and yes
• 22:31
  they would deny it but it's absolutely
• 22:33
  that's just the way the game is played
• 22:35
  all over the world. Um this is really
• 22:37
  sad really really sad that it's it's
• 22:40
  come to this any any hope Fred of some
• 22:43
  turnaround some chance of
• 22:45
  >> there's always there's always hope um I
• 22:47
  I
• 22:48
  >> maybe not after what I just said but you
• 22:51
  know
• 22:51
  >> it's okay
• 22:52
  >> I'm not an astronomer. No, no, no,
• 22:54
  nobody nobody listens to this. It's
• 22:56
  okay.
• 22:58
  Um, look, I I am hopeful. We have some
• 23:02
  discussions coming up that I hope might
• 23:06
  emerge from which might emerge some
• 23:09
  perhaps what you might call more
• 23:10
  affordable options uh which might still
• 23:14
  involve ESO. The problem is ESO has its
• 23:16
  own rules
• 23:17
  >> and ESO is I think it's 17 uh member
• 23:21
  countries and if you do a special deal
• 23:24
  for Australia they're all going to say
• 23:26
  well why don't we get a special deal
• 23:28
  like that as well. Um and that's
• 23:30
  understandable. So ISO has to tread very
• 23:33
  carefully in this kind of thing.
• 23:34
  >> Yeah, that makes sense. All right. Well,
• 23:36
  hopefully common sense will prevail
• 23:38
  sometime in the next uh two years and
• 23:42
  somebody changes their mind and sees the
• 23:44
  the benefits rather than just looking at
• 23:47
  the dollar signs.
• 23:48
  >> Looking at the dollars. That's right.
• 23:50
  >> Okay. This is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunley
• 23:53
  with Professor Fred Watson.
• 23:57
  >> Hey, that's one of the better sims.
• 23:59
  Believe me,
• 24:00
  >> we've had a couple of cardiac arrests
• 24:02
  down here too, peeps.
• 24:03
  >> There weren't any time for that up here.
• 24:05
  Space nuts.
• 24:08
  >> All right. Uh, our final story takes us
• 24:11
  um quite a way away from the planet, a
• 24:14
  little bit further than Artemus 2 has
• 24:16
  traveled, in fact. Uh, the discovery of
• 24:17
  an X-ray binary, Fred. Now, I'm not sure
• 24:22
  what this is. Um, but yes, I I know
• 24:26
  there's all sorts of um, you know, radio
• 24:29
  wave type signals flying around the
• 24:31
  universe. X-rays, gamma rays, um, AC/DC,
• 24:35
  you name it. Um, but it's all out there.
• 24:39
  Uh, what is an X-ray binary?
• 24:42
  >> Um, that's a great question because this
• 24:44
  is this is a story about an X-ray binary
• 24:47
  that isn't a binary.
• 24:50
  >> So, just to complicate things further.
• 24:52
  So what's an X-ray binary? Uh if you've
• 24:54
  got a star which has got a star a bit
• 24:58
  like the sun actually these are normal
• 25:00
  stars like the sun uh gets to the end of
• 25:03
  its life uh and after usually something
• 25:07
  in the region of 10 billion years. Um
• 25:10
  what it what happens is it it puffs off
• 25:12
  its outer layers because the nuclear
• 25:14
  reactions change in its interior and
• 25:16
  eventually its core collapses to become
• 25:19
  something we call a white dwarf star.
• 25:21
  We've talked about them before. They're
• 25:22
  about the size of the Earth with about
• 25:24
  the mass of a star. Uh and they've
• 25:27
  basically exhausted their fuel. They're
• 25:29
  still shining because they're very hot.
• 25:32
  Uh so, um that's an a white dwarf star.
• 25:36
  Now, often that will happen in what's
• 25:40
  called a binary system. Two stars
• 25:42
  orbiting around their common center of
• 25:44
  gravity. And a binary is actually almost
• 25:49
  the most common form of stars in the
• 25:52
  galaxy. Many many stars that we observe,
• 25:55
  almost 50% are actually part of a binary
• 25:58
  pair. They're part of a duo. So, if
• 26:00
  you've got a star that's collapsed into
• 26:02
  a white dwarf star, um, which has
• 26:05
  intense gravity, not quite as intense as
• 26:07
  a black hole, but pretty intense, and
• 26:09
  it's being orbited by another star that
• 26:11
  hasn't got to that stage in its
• 26:13
  evolution, then what you get is the
• 26:15
  white dwarf is sucking matter off the
• 26:18
  other star and spiraling it inwards. The
• 26:21
  white dwarf's eating it up. Uh, and
• 26:23
  eventually if the white dwarf has enough
• 26:25
  of that stuff, it becomes unstable and
• 26:27
  turns into what we call a type 1A
• 26:28
  supernova, an exploding star. Um but
• 26:33
  during that process while your your
• 26:35
  white dwarf and your normal star are in
• 26:38
  this dance around each other with stuff
• 26:40
  being pulled off the normal star that
• 26:42
  stuff will be accelerated by the gravity
• 26:44
  of the white dwarf and it will emit
• 26:47
  x-rays because it is being so uh so
• 26:50
  highly excited uh by the energy that's
• 26:54
  basically being imparted to it as it
• 26:56
  gets pulled in. It's a bit like the
• 26:57
  accretion disc of a black hole. It's a
• 27:00
  kind of calm down version of that.
• 27:02
  >> Um, so that all makes sense.
• 27:05
  >> I'm glad it does. That's that's where
• 27:07
  the X-ray bit comes from. So an X-ray
• 27:09
  binary is two stars. One's a normal star
• 27:12
  having its surface sucked away by a
• 27:14
  white dwarf and that sucking away of
• 27:17
  material causes the X-rays. So that's
• 27:19
  how you discover it. So what has
• 27:21
  happened? But this isn't what's
• 27:23
  happening now, is it? With this
• 27:24
  discovery. No, no, but that's the that's
• 27:28
  the backstory if I can put it that way.
• 27:30
  >> Um what has happened now is um there are
• 27:34
  two of them actually two stars that have
• 27:37
  been uh discovered
• 27:40
  >> which show all the signs of being an
• 27:44
  X-ray binary in terms of the X-rays that
• 27:46
  they emit. But there's no other star
• 27:49
  there. There's there's no, you know,
• 27:52
  there's there's there's only the white
• 27:54
  dwarf. there's there's nothing else.
• 27:56
  >> Okay.
• 27:56
  >> Um and that means it's an X-ray binary
• 27:59
  that isn't a binary. Uh and two of these
• 28:02
  things have been discovered um by a
• 28:06
  group of scientists who actually look
• 28:08
  for these things. Uh they've got
• 28:10
  interesting names, perhaps a bit more
• 28:12
  imaginative than the usual astronomical
• 28:14
  names. One is called Gandalf. Uh and the
• 28:17
  and the other is called Moonsized. uh
• 28:20
  they were discovered at different times
• 28:22
  but they're basically um you know they
• 28:25
  are um part of the same survey. So
• 28:28
  they've got this signature of X-rays but
• 28:31
  um no companion object that is basically
• 28:37
  telling you that it's a normal B X-ray
• 28:39
  binary.
• 28:40
  >> So
• 28:42
  does that mean there's something else
• 28:43
  there that it's feeding off or
• 28:46
  >> That's correct. It looks as though that
• 28:50
  what what they have is a a half ring of
• 28:55
  material actually circulating around the
• 28:59
  white dwarf.
• 29:01
  >> So, and that this is the debris from
• 29:06
  basically a star being swallowed up,
• 29:08
  another star being swallowed up by the
• 29:10
  by the white dwarf. Uh it's very very
• 29:13
  odd and very unusual and quite hard to
• 29:15
  get your head around. This uh this this
• 29:18
  moving ring um which uh as the white
• 29:22
  dwarf itself spins and generates a
• 29:24
  magnetic field is not actually aligned
• 29:26
  with where we think the magnetic field
• 29:28
  is. Um so it's it's um it's a puzzle.
• 29:34
  I'm going to quote one of the authors of
• 29:37
  one of these papers who says to to note
• 29:41
  white dwarfs of similar age and
• 29:44
  evolutionary stage are typically
• 29:46
  non-magnetic
• 29:48
  while highly magnetic white dwarf
• 29:50
  remnants are already an exception.
• 29:53
  Gandalf is now only one one of only two
• 29:57
  known merger remnants to feature
• 30:00
  asymmetric magnetization.
• 30:02
  That's all gobbledygook for saying this
• 30:04
  is a very very peculiar pair of objects
• 30:06
  that we uh that we see and they're in
• 30:08
  different parts of the universe. They're
• 30:10
  not related to each other. They are
• 30:11
  different parts. So this is a really
• 30:15
  interesting um episode because it looks
• 30:18
  as though a completely new class of
• 30:20
  stars has been discovered here.
• 30:22
  Something that really is not the norm.
• 30:24
  Stuff that we know about and are
• 30:25
  familiar and and love. It's just not
• 30:27
  part of that. It's something quite new.
• 30:31
  as you're explaining it, my thought just
• 30:34
  went to could this just be the end of
• 30:37
  the partnership? Like it's the the stars
• 30:40
  pretty well just, you know, there's
• 30:42
  hardly anything left. You're still
• 30:43
  getting that X-ray deal going on,
• 30:46
  >> but you know, um there's there's
• 30:49
  >> hardly any material left and see you
• 30:51
  later alligator
• 30:53
  >> and and what's what's there is spread
• 30:55
  into half a ring, which seems to be the
• 30:57
  case. Yeah, I think that's I think that
• 30:59
  is probably the the bottom line of this.
• 31:01
  Um, which is is boring.
• 31:03
  >> You figured something out. Perhaps
• 31:04
  >> you figured something out. Yep. Yep.
• 31:06
  >> Where's my Nobel Prize?
• 31:08
  >> Actually, it's I think I've got it here
• 31:09
  in this drawer. So, I put it away last
• 31:12
  week.
• 31:15
  Uh, yes, it's um, look, it's great uh
• 31:18
  that that we've got entirely new
• 31:20
  category of highly magnetized white
• 31:22
  dwarf, which is something that's not
• 31:24
  been seen before.
• 31:26
  Yes, indeed. Very exciting. Uh if you'd
• 31:28
  like to read about that, you can see it
• 31:30
  on uh one of the best websites around
• 31:33
  when it comes to uh science and
• 31:36
  astronomy. And that's f.org, not fi.
• 31:39
  It's phys.org.
• 31:41
  fizz.org.
• 31:43
  Great story. Uh we had a bit of a
• 31:45
  sandwich there. Good news, bad news,
• 31:47
  good news, I think.
• 31:48
  >> Yes. Yeah, that's right. We We do our
• 31:52
  best. We aim to please, don't we? I
• 31:53
  mean, we're we're only adequate, but we
• 31:55
  do aim to please at some level.
• 31:57
  >> We do. Yes. Although, you know, depends
• 31:59
  which part of it you were listening to
• 32:00
  as to what is pleasing and what wasn't.
• 32:02
  I think it was self-evident.
• 32:05
  >> Yes, indeed.
• 32:06
  >> We are all done, Fred. Thank you very
• 32:08
  much.
• 32:09
  >> Great pleasure, Andrew. Always good to
• 32:11
  air my grievances as well as talk about
• 32:14
  the latest in science news. We'll see
• 32:17
  you next time.
• 32:18
  >> Yes, we will catch you on the next
• 32:19
  episode, a Q&A episode coming your way
• 32:21
  very, very soon. And uh while you're
• 32:23
  online uh have a listen or have a look
• 32:26
  around on our website because uh we
• 32:28
  would uh we'd love you to do that. You
• 32:30
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• 32:32
  news feed. Uh you can become a supporter
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• 32:42
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• 32:50
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• 32:56
  get reasonably good ones, you know, two
• 32:58
  and a half, three stars. Woohoo. No,
• 33:00
  we've had a few bigger than that. Uh,
• 33:02
  and thanks to Hugh in the studio. Uh,
• 33:05
  we've just come out of a long weekend
• 33:06
  here in Australia and Hugh's been away
• 33:08
  and um he was running late because he
• 33:10
  was at a convention of white dwarfs. And
• 33:13
  from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for your
• 33:15
  company. We'll see you on the next
• 33:17
  episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye.
• 33:19
  >> Space nuts.
• 33:20
  >> You've been listening to the Space Nuts
• 33:22
  podcast
• 33:24
  >> available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
• 33:27
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• 33:30
  player. You can also stream on demand at
• 33:32
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• 33:35
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