Latest / Becoming Financially Confident / My Son Came Home From College Saying Capitalism Is Evil. How Do I Answer Him Without Losing Him?
Transcript
- 0:37What do you say when your kid tells you the whole system is rotten and needs to be torn down?
- 0:43Now, that's not a debate on television.
- 0:45That's a mother sitting at her kitchen table watching a conversation with her son turn into a wall.
- 0:51And she wrote to me because she's scared she's about to lose him over it.
- 0:55I've got some numbers on this one that might surprise even you, and the answer isn't the one most parents are reaching for.
- 1:03So stick around.
- 1:04We're getting into it right now on this bonus episode today.
- 1:17Hello there, and welcome back to Financially Confident Christian.
- 1:20I'm Ralph Estepp Jr.
- 1:21And I'm so glad you're here today.
- 1:23Now, this episode is going to be a little different.
- 1:26This one isn't about a budget or a debt payoff or an insurance policy.
- 1:31Today we're talking about what to do when somebody you love has lost faith in the whole economic system and you really don't know how to answer them without blowing up the relationship.
- 1:41The listener who wrote me is 58 years old.
- 1:44Her son is 24, and he came home from college convinced the whole game is rigged and ought to be replaced.
- 1:51And now every single conversation about money in that house ends in a fight.
- 1:56And she's genuinely afraid that if she pushes back one more time, she loses him.
- 2:02Now, I want to name something right off the top because I think it's the real story here.
- 2:07This isn't a political question, not really a political question.
- 2:11This is a mother who's terrified that being right is going to cost her her relationship with her son.
- 2:18And if you've ever been in that spot with a kid, with a sibling, maybe with somebody at church, you know exactly what she's feeling.
- 2:28And if you've got a question you'd like me to take on head on just like this, no questions are off the rails here.
- 2:34Go to financiallyconfidentchristian.com question.
- 2:38I read every single question and I will answer every single question.
- 2:43Again, that's financially confidentchristian.com?
- 2:48So let me read you what she wrote in and imitate right now.
- 2:50The subject line stopped me.
- 2:53Cole said this.
- 2:54My son came home from college saying capitalism is evil.
- 2:57As soon as I saw that, I said, this is one I got to talk about.
- 3:00But here's her question.
- 3:01She said, Hi, Ralph, I'm 58 and I've listened to your show for about two years now.
- 3:07I've never written in before.
- 3:08I'm writing because I don't know who else to ask about this.
- 3:11Without it Turning into an argument.
- 3:14My son is 24.
- 3:15He's a good kid, he's kind, he's hard working, he finishes degree, has a job.
- 3:21But something changed the last couple of years.
- 3:24He came home at Christmas and told my husband and me that capitalism is evil and the whole system is rigged and that people like us got ours and pulled the ladder up.
- 3:33He said it right at the dinner table.
- 3:35Ralph, my husband, got angry and it went downhill fast.
- 3:39Nobody talked for the rest of the night.
- 3:42The thing is, Ralph, I know he's hurting underneath.
- 3:45He's got about $40,000 in student loans.
- 3:48He and his girlfriend have been looking at houses for two years and they can't touch anything.
- 3:54He works harder than I did at his age, honestly, and he has less to show for it.
- 3:58So when he says the game is rigged, part of me understands why he feels that way to him.
- 4:04But I've also read enough history to be genuinely frightened by where he's heading with it.
- 4:08I don't think he understands what he's actually asking for.
- 4:12And every time I try to say that, all he hears is your problems aren't real and shuts down.
- 4:18Raph, I've prayed more about this than I've prayed about anything in years.
- 4:22I don't want to just win an argument.
- 4:24I want my son back at my table.
- 4:28How do I talk to him about this without losing him?
- 4:31Thank you.
- 4:33Alright, first thing, I want to say this to you.
- 4:37Thank you for writing this and thank you for that sentence at the end.
- 4:42I don't want to win an argument.
- 4:43I want my son back at my table.
- 4:46And that sentence tells me you already understand something most people never get to.
- 4:51Here's the big idea I want to hold onto for this entire episode.
- 4:55You will never argue somebody out of a conclusion that you refuse to understand.
- 5:02The road back to your son doesn't go around his pain, it goes straight through it.
- 5:07And I want to be honest with you about the urgency here, because there is some urgency here.
- 5:11He's 24.
- 5:13The beliefs a person settles into in their 20s tend to be the ones they carry for the rest of their life.
- 5:20So this matters.
- 5:22But here's the hard part, and I'm going to say it plainly because I think you can handle it.
- 5:26Some of what your son is angry about is true.
- 5:30And until you say that out loud, can't hear the other words that come out of your mouth.
- 5:35But let me walk you through six steps to bring this back to where it needs to be.
- 5:40Step number one, you got to stop arguing with the label and find the pain underneath of it.
- 5:46The word he used is not the point.
- 5:48I want you to really hear that.
- 5:50The word is just a container he found for a feeling he already had underneath that statement.
- 5:56The system is rigged.
- 5:57There's almost always something concrete and personal.
- 6:01And in your son's case, you already told me what it is.
- 6:05$40,000 in student loans that he can't outrun.
- 6:08Two years of looking at houses with nothing to show for it.
- 6:12And that feeling that he's doing everything right and losing anyway.
- 6:17So don't debate the word.
- 6:19Ask about the feeling.
- 6:21Try this.
- 6:21Maybe you say to him, when did you start first feeling like the game was rigged?
- 6:26And then this is the whole trick.
- 6:28Be quiet.
- 6:29So many times you want to talk and talk.
- 6:31Just be quiet.
- 6:32Let him talk all the way to the end.
- 6:34Not until you find an opening all the way to the end.
- 6:39Because here's why that matters so much when you argue with the label.
- 6:44He's got to defend an entire ideology.
- 6:47He's got to defend things he's never even thought about.
- 6:50So he digs in.
- 6:51And you're not talking to your son anymore.
- 6:54You're talking to a position.
- 6:55So many of us are living in these positions.
- 6:58But when you ask him about the pain, he doesn't have to defend anything.
- 7:03He just got to tell you the truth.
- 7:05And a young man telling his mother the truth about why he's scared is a completely different conversation than you wanted had at Christmas when everybody got upset.
- 7:15He didn't pick up an ideology.
- 7:17He picked up an explanation for something that was already hurting him.
- 7:21Here's the second step.
- 7:24Say out loud the part that's actually true.
- 7:27This is a step that almost every parent skips.
- 7:30And it's one that opens the door.
- 7:33His grievances are not imaginary.
- 7:36I've got numbers right here in front of me and I want you to have them too.
- 7:40Here's some real numbers.
- 7:41The national association of Realtors put the median age of a first time home buyer at 40 years old last year.
- 7:4740.
- 7:48That's an all time high.
- 7:50When your parents bought their first house, the number was in the high 20s.
- 7:54When I bought my first house, I was 23.
- 7:58Here's another one that's scary.
- 8:00Americans collectively owe about $1.84 trillion in student loans that spread across roughly 43 million borrowers.
- 8:11Your son's 40,000 is not unusual.
- 8:14It's the common.
- 8:15It's the ordinary.
- 8:17And here's the one that got my attention.
- 8:19Gallup found last year that positive views of Capitalism in this country dropped up 44%.
- 8:26That's the lowest they've ever measured.
- 8:29Now sit with that last number for a second because it tells you something important.
- 8:34This isn't your son being difficult.
- 8:36This is a whole generation looking at the same scoreboard and reaching the same conclusion.
- 8:43And I'm going to say something here that may not be comfortable.
- 8:46Some of this is our doing.
- 8:48Zoning rules in this country made it functionally illegal to build the kind of housing a young family could afford.
- 8:54Those are just facts.
- 8:56We handed 18 year olds a loan product that survives bankruptcy and told it was an investment.
- 9:01And when big institutions failed, they got rescued while individuals got foreclosed on.
- 9:08You can't run that play in front of a whole generation and deliver a lecture about personal responsibility.
- 9:13They don't see it.
- 9:16So here's what I want you to say to him in your own words, something like this, son, you're right that housing is out of the reach in a way that it wasn't for us.
- 9:24You're right that your degree costs more and bought less.
- 9:27That's real.
- 9:29And some of that is on my generation.
- 9:32And when you do that, watch what happens in his shoulders when you say that.
- 9:36Now hear me clearly.
- 9:37You're not conceding the argument.
- 9:39You're earning the right to be in it in the first place.
- 9:43You can't talk somebody out of a bad answer until you've admitted they're asking a real question.
- 9:49Here's step number three.
- 9:51Show them the difference between a safety net and handing over the house.
- 9:55Because this is what we got to focus on.
- 9:57Here's why the two of you have been talking past each other.
- 10:00You're using one word for two completely different things.
- 10:05When most people use the word, the polling says they're picking picturing Denmark.
- 10:10Denmark has health care, tuition, paid leave.
- 10:13It's a real safety net.
- 10:15That's the picture in their head.
- 10:17When most of us in our generation are us grayer folks, we're pixing something entirely different.
- 10:25We're picturing the government owning the factories, setting the prices, assigning the housing.
- 10:31Those two are not the same system.
- 10:33They're not even the same category.
- 10:35And that confusion is exactly why every one of these conversations explodes.
- 10:41So let me be honest with you about Denmark, because honesty is what's going to make you credible with your son.
- 10:47Denmark is not socialist.
- 10:49And the Danes get irritated when we say it is.
- 10:53Standing at Harvard back in 2015, Denmark's Prime Minister said this, and I'm quoting him, this is what he said.
- 10:59He said I would like to make one thing clear.
- 11:02Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy.
- 11:05Denmark is a market economy.
- 11:09The Nordic countries run aggressively free markets.
- 11:12Sweden abolished its inheritance tax.
- 11:14Sweden abolished its wealth tax.
- 11:16Sweden runs a national school voucher program that will get you thrown out of an American school board meeting for suggesting it.
- 11:24But here's the part that matters most, and I want you to write this one down.
- 11:28They pay for those benefits by taxing the middle class heavily.
- 11:32They don't soak the rich in Denmark.
- 11:34Denmark charges 25% sales tax on nearly everything you buy.
- 11:39Think about that for a second.
- 11:4025% sales tax.
- 11:44And on top of their income tax brackets kick in at about one and a half times the average income.
- 11:50Which over here would mean paying the top rate on somewhere around $90,000.
- 11:55Think about that for a second.
- 11:56The top rate in the US is not at $90,000, but that's what it is in Denmark.
- 12:02And that last piece means more than anything else in this step.
- 12:06It's not that billionaires pay for it.
- 12:09It's everybody pays for it, including him.
- 12:12And see, a lot of young people don't understand that.
- 12:15Now, that's a legitimate argument between adults.
- 12:18How much government do we want and what are we willing to pay for it?
- 12:22I'd argue with parts of it, but there's a real conversation that you and your son are allowed to be having on both sides of that.
- 12:30What history warns us about is something different.
- 12:32It's not about the size of the state.
- 12:34It's about whether there's any part of your life that the state doesn't reach.
- 12:38That's a real conversation about how big government should be.
- 12:42That's not the same conversation as whether anything stays outside of it.
- 12:47So you got to understand what you're really talking about.
- 12:51Here's the second next step.
- 12:52I want you to ask him the question that actually lands.
- 12:57Don't hand your son a history lecture.
- 12:59If you lecture him, he's going to shut down.
- 13:02I know you've read the history.
- 13:04I've read it, too.
- 13:06But he will hear a lecture and you will lose him in 90 seconds.
- 13:11Ask him one question instead, and then ask it with real curiosity, not as a trap.
- 13:15Ask him this.
- 13:16Who specifically do you trust with that much power?
- 13:21It's a really simple question.
- 13:22Just ask your son, who specifically do you trust with that much power?
- 13:27Not the government in abstract, not the version staffed by people who agreed with him.
- 13:32The actual existing one.
- 13:34The one whose website crashes, the one whose agencies lose records.
- 13:39And then take it one step further.
- 13:41Ask him to picture that same institution staffed entirely by the political side he likes least.
- 13:47This will.
- 13:48You'll be like, wait a minute, Raoul.
- 13:49I can't believe you just asked me that.
- 13:51Because sooner or later, the truth is, that's going to happen.
- 13:55That's how elections work.
- 13:57Every power you build for your side is a power you hand to the other side on a schedule.
- 14:03And then give him one number.
- 14:05Just one.
- 14:06Don't pile on.
- 14:08Roughly 7.9 million people have walked out of Venezuela.
- 14:127.9 million.
- 14:14That's one of the largest displacement crisis on the planet.
- 14:18Out of a country that was within living memory.
- 14:21The wealthiest in South America.
- 14:23The wealthiest.
- 14:25And here's what I want him to understand about that.
- 14:28Nobody in Caracas voted for empty shelves.
- 14:31They voted to stop being poor while sitting on top of the largest oil reserves on earth.
- 14:37That was reasonable to.
- 14:38That was a reasonable thing they wanted.
- 14:40Nobody votes for the ending.
- 14:41They vote for the beginning.
- 14:43And the beginning always sounds compassionate.
- 14:47So let me put my accountant hat on for a second because I can't help myself here.
- 14:51Free is the most expensive word in the English language.
- 14:55It is bounted around all the time.
- 14:57Right now, there is no service a government provides that a citizen does not pay for.
- 15:03None.
- 15:04The only question is whether you pay for it visibly in a bill or invisibly in a tax, in a fee, in an inflation rate, a waiting list or a shortage.
- 15:16And watch who actually pays, because it's never who you're told pays.
- 15:20Wealth is mobile.
- 15:21It hires attorneys.
- 15:22It restructures.
- 15:23It relocates.
- 15:24It waits.
- 15:26That paycheck is not mobile.
- 15:28A small business with three employees and a leased van is not mobile.
- 15:32When the state needs revenue, it doesn't chase the hardest target.
- 15:35It chases the easiest one.
- 15:38The bill for tax the rich gets mailed to the middle almost every single time.
- 15:44A system you'd only accept under leaders you trust isn't a system.
- 15:48It's a hostage situation with good public relations.
- 15:53But then you've got to draw the line between compassion and a transfer.
- 15:57Now, I want to get to the part that I think matters most.
- 16:00And it's the spiritual piece.
- 16:03Your son is not wrong to want the poor cared for.
- 16:07That instinct comes straight out of scripture.
- 16:09And I want you to tell him that out loud.
- 16:12Say something like, hey, the thing you want, people not being crushed, that's the right thing to want, son.
- 16:18And I'm proud of you for wanting it.
- 16:20Because scripture is relentless about this.
- 16:23Think about the widow, the orphan, the stranger, the poor.
- 16:28Page after page of scripture tells Us the same thing.
- 16:32But that same scripture protects property so firmly.
- 16:37So firmly that it forbids not just the theft, but the appetite behind it.
- 16:43You shall not steal.
- 16:45You shall not covet.
- 16:47God addressed the act and the desire underneath the act.
- 16:51Those two things are not intention, but they are two different jobs, and only one of them belongs to Caesar.
- 16:58But here's the distinction.
- 17:00Charity that is compelled isn't charity.
- 17:03It's a transfer.
- 17:06It might be a reasonable policy.
- 17:08I'm not saying that it isn't.
- 17:09But it's not the same act, and it doesn't form the same kind of person.
- 17:14And here's the piece I'd really want your son to sit with.
- 17:18When the state takes over compassion entirely, the church just becomes redundant.
- 17:24And ask him that.
- 17:25Not as a gotcha, as a real question.
- 17:27If generosity gets handled by a committee, what's the church for?
- 17:32Now, he may have a good answer.
- 17:34Let him give it.
- 17:34That's okay.
- 17:35That's a conversation worth having, and it's one you'll both walk away from thinking.
- 17:41But then close the loop.
- 17:42Honestly, because this cuts towards us, too.
- 17:46Our job as Christians is not to defend an economic system.
- 17:50Our job is to be the people who actually show up.
- 17:54Which means the generosity in your own house has to be visible to that young man, or none of what you said today will even land.
- 18:03Wanting the poor cared for is the right instinct.
- 18:06The only question is whose hands do it and what it costs to hand that job away.
- 18:14But now I'm going to tell you something you're not going to like.
- 18:16You got to fix what's in your house first.
- 18:19The last step, and this is the practical one.
- 18:22You can't beat something with nothing.
- 18:24And a lecture is nothing.
- 18:26Give your son something real to do this month.
- 18:29Something inside his reach.
- 18:32I encourage you.
- 18:32Sit down with him and put the actual numbers on paper.
- 18:36That $40,000 balance.
- 18:38But that interest rate, the real debt payoff date.
- 18:41I've done this with hundreds of people over 30 years, and I'm telling you, most folks have never even seen the real number.
- 18:48They're carrying it as a fog.
- 18:50And when the fog becomes a figure, something changes in a person's face.
- 18:55Then do the same thing with the house.
- 18:57What does that starter home in your area actually require?
- 19:00How much of a down payment is it going to be?
- 19:02What's that monthly payment look like?
- 19:05Build that timeline.
- 19:06Make it a target instead of a grievance.
- 19:10And if you and your husband are in any position to help towards a down payment, this is the conversation where that gets Said out loud.
- 19:19And then look at your own county, your own zoning board, your own church budget.
- 19:24Because that housing shortage he's so angry about is mostly a legal artifact, not a natural one.
- 19:31Those meetings are open to the public, and hardly nobody shows up.
- 19:35Ask them to come with you to one, just one of those that will do more than 10 arguments, and I'll tell you why.
- 19:41Because the thing that changes a young person's politics faster than any statistic on earth is watching something actually get fixed in front of them when they can see it.
- 19:51He'll stop wanting to tear it down the day he sees somebody actually repairing it.
- 19:59Now, I want to set the economics aside completely, and I want to talk to you about what you're really carrying.
- 20:04Because it's not economics, it's a quiet table.
- 20:09It's the memory of that Christmas dinner where nobody spoke afterwards.
- 20:13It's that fear that the next time you open your mouth about this, he stops calling.
- 20:18You told me yourself you don't want to win the argument.
- 20:21You want your son back at the table.
- 20:24That's not a political problem.
- 20:25That's not an economic problem.
- 20:27That's a mother's heart.
- 20:29And God sees it, and he sees all of it.
- 20:33Now, I gotta be honest with you about what faith does and doesn't promise here.
- 20:37Faith doesn't promise that he'll come around.
- 20:41It doesn't promise that you'll say the perfect thing or that the next dinner won't get tense all over again.
- 20:46It might.
- 20:48It probably will, at least one more time.
- 20:51What faith promises is that you are not doing this alone.
- 20:55And that love you have as a mom outlasts a disagreement.
- 20:59It almost always does, but it needs somebody willing to stay in the room.
- 21:05James, chapter one, verse 19, says this.
- 21:07You must all be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry.
- 21:13I want you to notice the order of these, because this isn't an accident.
- 21:17Listening comes first.
- 21:19Remember what I said.
- 21:20Listen to him.
- 21:21And it's not some suggestion.
- 21:23That's an instruction.
- 21:25I also want to say something about your husband, because he's in this story, too.
- 21:30What came out of that dinner table was anger, but underneath of it, that was love.
- 21:35With nowhere to go, he watched his son say something that frightened him and he didn't know where to put it.
- 21:43That's forgivable and it's fixable.
- 21:46And I've lived that same thing.
- 21:49Here's the one thing you can actually control in this whole situation.
- 21:53You can control whether that door stays open.
- 21:56And that door is held open by listening, not by being right.
- 22:00You haven't lost him.
- 22:02You've lost one conversation.
- 22:05So I want to encourage you right now, go have another conversation and another one.
- 22:09Listen to me.
- 22:10You're not trying to control your son.
- 22:12You're trying to keep loving him through something hard.
- 22:15That's not weakness, and it's not compromise.
- 22:18That's the harder, braver thing, and you're already doing it.
- 22:22You know, on my show, I always want to give you a win for today.
- 22:25Just one thing.
- 22:26Not the whole plan.
- 22:27Here's what I want you to do.
- 22:28I want you to send your son one text today that concedes one true thing.
- 22:32That's it.
- 22:33Just one thing.
- 22:34One sentence.
- 22:34Something like, I've been thinking about what you said.
- 22:37You're right.
- 22:38Housing is out of reach in a way that wasn't for us.
- 22:42Now, here are the rules, and they matter.
- 22:44Don't add A.
- 22:45But.
- 22:45If you add A.
- 22:45But my wife says this to me all the time.
- 22:47Ralph.
- 22:47You always say B.
- 22:48But don't attach an article.
- 22:50Don't send a second text 10 minutes later explaining the first one.
- 22:54Send it.
- 22:55Put the phone down and let it sit.
- 22:58This isn't a debate.
- 22:59It's a door propped open 1 inch.
- 23:02And here's why it matters.
- 23:04The last conversation you two had ended with a wall.
- 23:07This one starts with you crossing over to his side of it.
- 23:10That cost you nothing but pride.
- 23:13And pride was never worth what it charges.
- 23:16Now, I want to give you a Bible verse today.
- 23:18One Bible verse today from Second Corinthians, chapter 9, verse 7 from the New living translation says this.
- 23:25You must each decide in your heart how much to give.
- 23:28And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure.
- 23:32For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.
- 23:36Look at what God is protecting in that verse.
- 23:39The deciding.
- 23:40The heart does the choosing, because generosity gets extracted, still moves the money, but it doesn't form the person.
- 23:49And God is after the person, which means the freedom to choose is not the opposite of compassion.
- 23:55It's the soil compassion grows in.
- 23:58And I want to point out that this verse cuts in both directions.
- 24:01Today, nobody can compel your son's generosity, and nobody can compel his argument either, including you.
- 24:10How about we pray together?
- 24:12Heavenly Father, I'm praying tonight for a mother who is scared.
- 24:17Her son is 24 years old.
- 24:19He's angry, and she's watching a wall go up after her own dinner table.
- 24:24She doesn't want to be right, Lord.
- 24:26She just wants him home.
- 24:27She wants him back at the table.
- 24:29I just ask right now that you would give her patience to listen all the way to the end before she answers.
- 24:35Guard her tongue in moments that she wants most to use it, Lord, give her husband a soft answer where anger came out last time and give him grace for the night that it didn't.
- 24:45Study that young man's hands over the debt he's carrying.
- 24:48Let honest work still lead somewhere in this country, Lord, and let him see it.
- 24:53And I just ask that you will protect his family.
- 24:56Don't let a disagreement about money become a distance between people who love each other.
- 25:01And remind all of us that you never commanded generosity by force.
- 25:07You asked our hearts first and everything else after.
- 25:11And I just ask this in Jesus name.
- 25:14Amen, friend.
- 25:17I want to say this to you before we go.
- 25:19You wrote in instead of writing him off and that tells me almost everything I need to know about how this story ends.
- 25:27Nothing about your son's situation changed while you listened to this episode.
- 25:31That loan is still $40,000.
- 25:34The houses are still too expensive.
- 25:35But the next conversation changes because you're walking into it with a plan instead of a defense.
- 25:43Let me give you today's takeaways.
- 25:46Stop arguing about the word and ask about the pain underneath it.
- 25:50Do that this week.
- 25:52Number two, say out loud the part that's actually true before you say anything else and let him speak.
- 25:59Number three, show him the difference between a safety net and handing over the house.
- 26:05Number four, ask him who he trusts with that power on the day the other side is holding it.
- 26:10You might be surprised by the answer.
- 26:13Number five, draw that line between compassion and a compelled transfer.
- 26:17And then go be visibly generous in front of him.
- 26:21And number six, fix one real thing together.
- 26:25That loan number, the down payment, one zoning meeting.
- 26:29And if you've got a question you'd like me to go on, go to financiallyconfidentchristian.com?
- 26:37And if you'd rather just talk it out, you can leave me a voicemail.
- 26:39Also by going to financiallyconfidentchristian.com voicemail.
- 26:44We'll put both of those in the show notes because I'd love to hear from you.
- 26:47Thank you so much for joining me today on this bonus episode.
- 26:50This was a topic that I felt like I needed to cover.
- 26:53I want to encourage you.
- 26:54Stay financially savvy.
- 26:56Build that relationship with your son.
- 26:57Because, hey, I get the mother's love part.
- 27:00Us dads have that mother's love part too.
- 27:02May God bless you and you have a great day.
- 27:13We ride.
- 27:19My wealth.