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Does Ryan Helsley as a starter actually make sense for the Tigers? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, a The Trot Tiger's podcast. I
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: am kieren Sekley with me as always as a man
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: whose favorite dish at Thanksgiving is canned whoop bass served
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: to his haters, He's Coddy Stavid Strong.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I kind of like it. I don't even know how
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: to transition from that. Maybe a quick word to the people.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: We do have a little sale going on at Tiger
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: territoriesshop dot com. I don't think we have any shirts
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: that say like whoopass available, but we have some stuff.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll have a link in the description for
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: this podcast and on YouTube. But you can also use
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: code black Friday ten percent off. So pretty cool little deal.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: So I hope you guys take advantage of that. Uh
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: transition to something that is not going to be a disaccount, Cody.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: And that is the latest report that the Tigers are
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: interested in the guy who was the hot one of
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the hottest trade market you know, candidates, trade candidates, targets
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: whatever last season. Obviously Tigers are not bite there. There's
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: a pun and now they might be nibbling at acquiring
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: his services. Via free agency, but not in the usual role.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So what's going on here with Ryan Helsley.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty interesting report this weekend myself and my colleagues
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Ken Rosenthal Katie Wu reported that the Tigers and on
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Ryan Helsley as a starter, not a reliever. It's my
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: understanding the Tigers met with Helsley or his camp last
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: week to pitch this idea. Now it turns out there
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: are some other teams who may have already been thinking
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: this or may have already met with Helsley. There is
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: something about Ryan Helsley that teams like as a starter.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I think the important context here to consider is the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: amount of relief pitchers who have transitioned to starting in
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: the last couple of years and had a lot of success.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Seth Lou, Michael King, There's some others. Jordan Hicks did
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: it with not quite as much success, but there have
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: been some guys who've done it and done it really well.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Michael King was a name I had heard the Tigers
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: having some interest in not long ago. Michael King was
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: a relief pitcher for the Yankees. They converted him to starting.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: He's now projected to get by the Athletic three years
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: seventy five million in free agency. I would view this
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: as let me just tell you my initial reaction when
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I heard the healthy thing, it was like, okay, like
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Helsley's good, but are the Tigers just getting too cute?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Like can they ever just be normal and go sign
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: a guy, go sign a really good starter. But after
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: thinking about I was like, I mean, I get it.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Why pay Michael King three seventy five if you think
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: you can create your own version of Michael King. Now
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: there's a little bit of a risk there. Helseley had
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: a really bad second half of the Mets, but let's
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: not kid ourselves. Ryan Helsey, even in somewhat of a
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: down year, some really good stuff. He throws triple digits.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: He has a wipeout slider. If you're looking on YouTube,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: we have his stat cast rankings up. There's a lot
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: of red on this page, even last year, and if
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: you go back to twenty twenty four, Kieran wooh dominant
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: dominant stuff. So we'll see, we'll see what the cost
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: would be. But if you can pitch him, I don't know,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: one year sixteen or one year with a player option
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: for sixteen, something like that would make a lot of sense.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing. If it doesn't work, if he
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: struggles even just move him back to the bullpen. And
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: you got a guy who throws one oh two at
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: the back end of your bullpen. So it's an interesting idea,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: it's a creative idea. It is classic Tigers trying to
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: do something a little outside of the box. And I
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: do want to again note sounds like other teams have
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: this exact same idea, So it's not a slam dunk
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: that he's going to be a Tiger. But I think
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: it's a really interesting report. And this is legit too.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: There's some steam behind this. We heard this from multiple places,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: very interested to see what will happen next.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting, and I just wanted to kind
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: of lay some some bio biographal saying that reference biographical
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: thank you facts about Helsley because I think some of
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: this stuff is at least worth noting. So he is.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: He'll turn thirty two in the middle of next season,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: all right, So obviously he's not a sprink chicken. But
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: if you look at his uh his innings logged fifty
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: six last season, sixty six twenty twenty four, that that season,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: you just referenced Cody H thirty six in twenty twenty three,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: sixty four in twenty twenty two. So the point is
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: they're like, I'm guessing I'm no pitching expert, I'm no
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: biomechanics expert. But I'm guessing that one of the merits
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: of this idea is that you're getting an ex like
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: you have a combination that you just almost never get,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: which is an experienced pitcher with a in a way
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: kind of younger armed like he just you know, logging,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: you know, like like.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Was a starter in college at Northeastern State. Makes me
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: wonder why are Oklahoma State Cowboys missed on right Helsley?
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: And he was a starter all the way up to
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Triple A pretty much up until he got to the
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: big league, So that's part of the thought. He started before,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: just not necessarily in the big leagues.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So like so yeah, there is some So, yeah,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: there's there's acumen there, you know from his younger years,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: which again that when when that was wasn't that recently,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: So that that is also worth noting. But I guess
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: the question is for someone like him, can he be
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the same type of picture, uh, like, if he is
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: in the starter role. So that's I guess that's an
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: unanswerable question because it would become the Tigers would obviously
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: have a plan. I don't think they're gonna, you know,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: pull up that savant page I have right here, probably
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: not gonna be in the nine to nine percentile fastball
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: VLO as a starter, you know what I mean. So,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: like there's questions there is like what kind of picture
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: would you be acquiring? You know, they would obviously lay
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: out a plan for him and his representatives, and they
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: would have to deem it whether it was like metaphorically
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: and literally like profitable for him to like go down
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: this venture or does he just want to stick and
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: be a closer for the next you know, however many
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: years of his career. So I assume that this is
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: something that has probably been in the lab a little
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: bit by the front office for a couple of years.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: It's like you're looking at future free agent classes, You're
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: looking at how your roster can shape like year to year,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: and you just want to be prepared for all possibilities.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: This is probably something that they've thoroughly vetted and think like, oh, yeah,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: we can we can use him in this role. But
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: what that actually would entail I'd be very curious about.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you look at his pitch mix,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: and that's the biggest question. Healthily last year was forty
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: seven percent slider, forty five percent four seam fastball. Ninety
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: percent of his pitches are slider or four seam. When
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I had got winn that the Tigers might have been
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: looking to convert someone, I was kind of gorowing through candidates,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: and I eliminated Hellesley kind of because of that. I
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: was looking for someone who already had maybe a little
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: more of a starter's mix. Helsley does not, So there's
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: gonna be a significant tweak if any team makes him
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: into a starter. He did begin throwing a cutter last year.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: He threw it all of thirteen times, but it is
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: not a pitch he had used at the major league
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: level before. So that's interesting. Something a little bit between
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: that four seam and that slider. He has a curveball
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: that he threw five point eight percent of the time.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: He's gonna have to use at least one of these
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: pitches a lot more. I wonder if they would consider
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: developing a change up. He hasn't thrown a change up
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: since twenty twenty two. It's never been really a strong
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: suit of his, but right now, the four seam slider aspect,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: those are pitches that are going to play better to
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: right handed batters. How would he fare against left handed
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: batters if he's a starter and he's facing the lefties
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: a third time around the order. I think that's a
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: real question. And yeah, the fastball, look, it's I think
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: it's still be a legit pitch, but it's probably going
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: to go down a tack or two if he's logging
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: eighty ninety one hundred pitches in and outing. So highly
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: interested to see what the folks in the lab, whether
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: it's what the Tigers or another team have come up with.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's a super super interesting idea. But there
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: are still some unanswered questions as to why he makes
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: the most sense to make this jump and what it
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: would actually look like.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: That And part of the what it would look like
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: aspect that I immediately comes to mind for me is
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: like timeline wise, to get him kind of under your
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: ear control and get him and like get him like
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: working out under your pitching plan, because I would I
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: would imagine that if I were the Tigers or you
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: know these other unnamed teams that like, all right, I
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: have just laid out and it's a four month plan
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: or you know, and that includes spring training. So it's like,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: if you're down for this, and we can agree on this, this, this,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: it's it's kind of time to like make a decision,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: so we can kind of get working on this as
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: early as possible, like, you know, according to how we
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: view best using your assets or whatever. So I wonder
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: if there's a little bit of a little bit of
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: a turnkey.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: The industry does get the sense that Hellsy would prefer
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: to sign sooner rather than later, So maybe those two
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: things could mesh nicely.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: We will get to some other aspects of the Tigers
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: starting pitching rotation that may or may not mesh nicely,
• 9:43
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• 10:49
  Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, you know, I want to
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: give you a compliment, Cody, because I feel like you're
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say you're the only because that's like
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: a strong that's like a strong statement that could be
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: easily disproven. As somebody else has said this too. But
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like you have been the most consistent at
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: framing the long term viability of the Tigers starting pitching
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: rotation as being not very long term, for lack of
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a better way of phrasing it, because we all know
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: schooble walk here. We all know that clarity is in
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: the last year of his contract after he exercised his
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: option or opted in or whatever. And then also mys
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: is on the same timeline as Schooble as well. So
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that's three guys right there. We don't you know, we
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: don't understand that there can be heavy turnover and pitching
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: year to year anyway, but in twenty twenty six does
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: feel like a crucial year for multiple reasons. But also, guy,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: keep in mind beyond that too, So like, I don't
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: know how much that will play into the Tigers free
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: agency plans, But the more I think about it, and
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: every time you bring it up, I'm like it, damn
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: will kind of should kind of should.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I And maybe it almost goes against the Hellsley thing,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: because I still think there's a case that Tigers should
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: work ahead in a way. They need another starting pitcher
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: for next year, and they're gonna need with multiple starting
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: pitchers a year from now when they're replacing Flaarty Casey Miz. Yeah,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: you will get Jackson, Joe Beck, you have some other
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: guys in the system. But I don't think you want
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: to feel feel like you have to plug all these
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: holes next winter when you need a starter and you're
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: in the market for the starter. Now, I suppose there's
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: no reason that Tigers couldn't just offer Hellsley a three
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: or four year deal for a lot of money if
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: they're that confident it would work. But I assume that
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: part of the reason they're interested in that is to
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: save a buck or two or and maybe it's a
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: short term deal. If you're Helsley, I think you want it. Sure, Yeah,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I'll do that for one year, sixteen mili, I'll shove,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: and then I'll go get rich, you know, a year.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: That's how I would perceive that. So the argument again's healthy.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And for a Michael King or a Dylan Cease or
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: from er Valdez or anyone else you want to name,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: is getting a guy on a multi year deal that's
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: going to be part of your rotation, regardless of what
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: happens with Trek Scuoble, regardless of you know, what Casey
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Miis does this year. You're solidifying your pitching staff for
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: the future. And although you have some guys in the system,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: pitching is not the strength of the system right now.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: So I don't think you can bank solely on internal
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: guys backfilling these rotation spots.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good way to put it. And we're
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: not gonna, obviously spend a lot of time talking about
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the schoobl situation, although we are contractually obligated to give
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: an update, and so I'll just quote from the story,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: which im' make sure I give credit you and Ken
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Rosenthal and Katie Wu on it, as well as Will Salmon.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: And the quote from the story is that the Tigers
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: are privately saying and they want to win with Tark Schooble,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: which is good. I would say there's no harm in
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: saying that publicly, but but it is good that there
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: they're saying in private. So there's your Tark Schoobl update.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: It's contractually obligated per episode.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: They've been very quiet on the Schooble front, which I
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: wonder if that will change around winter meetings. I think
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I think the Tigers are just being like, all right,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: send us your best offer, and other teams are like,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: we're gonna wait this out a little bit here, So
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's sending one hundred and twenty cents
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: on the dollar free Thanksgiving. So anyway, there there there
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: was something that was kind of bouncing through my mind
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a little bit is like, you know, kind of getting
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: ahead of the market, which we obviously we know the
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Tigers are inclined to do. And that's like do you
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: test the waters of a Casey Mize extension? Like just
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: kind of see yeah, obviously you know what you have
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: in him. He is coming off in All Star season.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I thought his postseason debut was good, like you know,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: like like it was like it was adequate to expectation. Uh,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: but could you get him to agree to like a
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: two year extension and like at thirty two million, thirty
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: four million, sweet in the pot just like a little bit,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: and then he you know, from his perspective, he gets
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit more financial security. I'm just looking up
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: his age right now, so I have it one hundred
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: percent correct. And then he still is able to hit
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the market. He is twenty eight years old, he'll turn
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: twenty nine and may. Uh, he's still able to hit
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the market when he's in like his you know, physical
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: prime a little now the back end of a prime,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: but still like in his physical prime, like is there.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: And then you and then from the Tiger's perspective, you
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: get a guy at market value and you have little
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: bit of insurance for that twenty twenty six winter going
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: into the twenty twenty seventh season. So just just a
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: thought that I was kind of bouncing around.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: It is not a question i'd really been heard pose before.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: If I were Casey Mice's agent, I'd say a pretty
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: hard no. You're coming off an All Star gear fangrafts
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: dollars per war Metric has Casey Mice worth nineteen million
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: dollars last year. Not shabby, but he could be a
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: lot better. He had a four nine to two er
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: in the second half. He wasn't that good. I think
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: you're looking to have a good year in your walk year,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: get another All Star game on your belt, and go
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: get paid in free agency for the Tigers. You could
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: almost make the same argument, like, although you you sort
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: of know what you're getting in Casey mies is, do
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: you know, like do we have we figured out how
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: good Casey Mice is yet? I mean, we are Casey
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: mis believers on this podcast. By the way, they can't
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: quit Casey Mice tagline persists. But yeah, it finally seems
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: he's pitching some of his best baseball in the first half,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: but he was outperforming almost all his underlying metrics, and
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: then in the second half the four nine TVRA, the
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: split finger kind of disappeared. Their first stretch. It's still
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: been pretty up and down, and although you like to
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: think there's a little bit more in there, I'm not
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: sure I would. If I were the team, I would
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: want to tie myself to that wagon when there's a
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: whole world of other starting pitchers available at your disposal.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Even the durability to Casey Maiz's career high in innings
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: is one fifty and a third. He's only you know,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: last year, I think it was one forty nine, So
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I think that's that's certainly a question too. You might
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: want someone who has a better track record of throwing
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy one hundred eighty innings a year.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Well, I feel pretty sound in this prediction, and like
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: it is obviously very conceivable that you know, this is
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: his last year with the Tigers coming forward, but he
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: probably will have won maybe even two like excellent years
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: at whatever his next stop or next stops are, and
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: then he could be like, man, well he could like.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've felt that way about Casey for a while.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I could very much see him doing the Matthew Boyd
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: thing where he shows all these flashes but never quite
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: get there, gets there with the Tigers, and then has
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: a big year or two later in his career. I
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: could very much see that, So, yeah, maybe maybe you
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: should just try to sign I don't know.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: The Matthew Boyd thing is so fitting on so many
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: levels that I'm I'm almost like upset that I did
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: never even like made that connection because they're both like
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: great dudes, you know what I mean, And like you said,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the flashes and you know, at different points were kind
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: of considered like frontline starter potential, and yeah, there's a
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: there's one hunderdercent of possibility that Casey Mayes like ends
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: up on Cleveland and faces the Tigers in game five
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: of a of a DS like that. There certainly feels
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: like it's in the the realm of possible.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Matt Boyd got two years thirty million when he had
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: done nothing really to suggest he was worth that outside
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: of a very small sample with the Guardians. Now, Boyd's
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: always had more of a strikeout profile than Mice, which
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: is actually a substantial difference. But yeah, there there may
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: end up being a really good market for Casey miz
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: outside of Detroit.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: All right, well, we are going to take a quick
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: break and then we're going to get to some other news,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: which includes Casey Mize and some latest roster updates and
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: transactions from arbitration or lack they're up. The first a
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• 20:44
  Speaker 1: You all right coming back here. So Casey miiz you
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: know no stranger to negotiations with the Tigers front office.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I guess you could say, if we're if we're throwing
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: a back a little bit. But the latest news is
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that the Tigers, uh, they tendered contracts to eleven of
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: their twelve arbitration eligible players. This was like kind of
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: like a Friday news dump across all of baseball and uh,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: then we have a graphic here from from Cody's Twitter
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: account at Cody staved Hagen if you're watching on YouTube,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: they reach agreements. So I guess maybe this is the
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: headline with Jake Rogers, Matt Berling, and bow Brisky. That's
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: three million for Rogers, two point excuse me, three point
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: two five million for Vierling, and one point one five
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: for bo Brisky. And then outstanding outstanding contract tenders are
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: for Riley Green, Zach McKinstry, Casey, My Spencer, Togos and
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Kerry Carpenter. Uh, and also Andy A. Bonyez was non tender.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: So where's the headline? Uh? Where's the headline here? Cody?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: What's what's the top? What's the top of the inverted pyramid? Uh?
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Probably the smaller font on our graphic heres since it
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: was a quote tweet, it's probably the fact that Tigers
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: had non tendered Andy Panyez. We had a good feeling
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: that was coming, but it's still the end of a
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: end of an era is probably a little strong, but
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: at the end of the end of the end of
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: the Andy A.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Banya's era.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: And he you know, this is a guy who was
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: a nice little acquisition that Tigers have talked so much
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: about winning on the margins and then the Scott Aris regime.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: He was one of their first claims. He came in
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and he helped them win on the margins. He had
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: a huge hit to help them beat the Houston Astros
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: and the wild card round last year. He was a
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: very likable guy, very dependable there for a minute and
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: just kind of fell off around the second half last
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: year and never quite got it together. He's there to
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: hit lefties. He had a seven to fourteen ops against
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: lefties last season not terrible, but far from the lefty
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: killer he was kind of billed to be. Jamai Jones
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: came up and absolutely destroyed left handed pitching. So in
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: a way, Andy's kind of losing that spot. I think
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: to Jami Jones, Jamai doesn't have the same defensive value.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: I think Andy does enough things well. He's certainly gonna
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: get more opportunity to play somewhere in this league. But
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: I think it's kind of the sign of the Tigers
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: moving on maturing as an organization. There's more competition. Someone
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: else filled your platoon role, played it well, you're getting
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: paid a little bit more. They had to move on.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: So Andy Bonie has you know, nice couple of years
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: with Tigers, but his time here is no more.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was the personification of the platoon style that
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: defined the Tigers over the past couple of seasons, you know,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: including you know, he'll live in Tigers' lore forever with
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: that hit in Game two of the America League Wildcard
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. I was there for that. It
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: happened right down the line where I was seated. An
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: amazing memory. We'll have it forever, but you know, it's
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: just it was it was time and the production wasn't
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: there and he and he got usurped by Jami Jones,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: as you said. And there's also enough young in field
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: prospects that you just can't uh you can't block for
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Andy a Banyez, you know. I mean, it's just that's
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: just the reality of the situation. So Ife Land, you know,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: land somewhere and has success. But it did. It did
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: feel like this time has come.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Now I think about it kind of some some full
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: hero stuff, kind of the end of the full heros
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: of the of the Lean Tigers years in twenty twenty five. Yeah,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: you know a Kiel bad Alex Lang, you know, the
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: sleeveless turtleneck like, uh, yeah, it were it's a it's
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: a it's a new era. New folk heroes will have
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: to be established to fill their place.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I think Jake Rogers is very much a full hero
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: and for anyone who doubted it, he is sticking around.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: And if you wonder why these players agreed to deals
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: and not everyone else didn't, I don't know that there's
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: a great explanation other than sometimes the team or the
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: agent likes to get this done. All the other players
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: who were tendered contracts, have an aren't under a guaranteed deal,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: have until sometime in January to come to the dollar agreement.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Drake Rodgers sticking around Matt Vierling. I don't think that's
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: any huge surprise bo BRISKI, I think, in addition to Andy,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: was the one I was very curious if he would
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: stick around. I think that was a more curious conversation
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: because of what the Tigers did with Alex Lang and
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Jason Foley, they straight up moved on, so they're bringing
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: back Brisky now. The fact they're paying him could be
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: one of those things where, hey, if they want a
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: clear forty man spot, they could dfam. Would anyone else
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: be willing to pay bo Brisky one point one five million.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: It's not a lot, but it's more than the league
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: minimum that a lot of waiver guys are. This tells
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: me the Tigers still have some faith in Brisky. They
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: must feel good about where he's at health wise, miss
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: most of the season due to injury. But like Jason
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Foley not long ago, this guy was the growing gas
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: in the playoffs and was a huge part of everything
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: they were doing. Everyone. I'm glad to see that it
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: sounds like he's going to stick around and get another
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: chance after kind of a last year due to injuries.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Uh, you know that that is kind
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: of the cool aspect of the game is that, you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: like very well could have, like you said, like decided
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: to move on like they did a couple other guys.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: But I think I think Brisky kind of fell into
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: the perfect combination of track record, you know, the health
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: stuff that we don't you know, we're obviously privy to,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: and cost like it kind of yeah, it kind of
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: it kind of checked all those boxes that it didn't
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: feel necessary to unnecessarily move on from from Bow Brisky
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: for for lack of a better term there. So, uh so, yeah,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: that's the latest update. Hopefully the our process is cleaner
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: than it has been uh in in some other off seasons,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: although they haven't was a no, only one player has
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: ever gone the arbitration since two thousand and one. That
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: was Fulmer, right, So.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Tigers actually have a pretty good track record at
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: avoiding or with guys. It has been a little mess
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: here in the Scott Air Sarah, there's the Casey Mies
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: fighting over two hundred and fifty k or something a
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: while back, but uh, that feels like forever ago. No
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: one cares anymore. Now we're talking about should they extend
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Casey minds or not?
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well any extension, whatever the number they agree to.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I think the Tigers should throw in it an extra
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty K, just as a little symbolic gesture.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Not gonna miss that at all. All Right, some some
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: fun speculative topics, Cody, some you know, some thought provoking
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: like this pitching stuff continues to amaze me. We're gonna
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: get to some more positional stuff as the offseason moves forward,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: where some where could there be some outside the box
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: maybe some big move ideas. So that's a little tease
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: for some future episodes kind of crafting right here. But well, yeah,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: thank you to you and Katie and Ken for giving
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: us a great topic with this Hellesley thing, because before
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: that I was like, man, we're gonna have to stretch
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: a little bit. But no, now we get to speculate
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: about a closer at the deadline becoming a starter at
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: age thirty two.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Shout out, Well, nothing like November December and baseball, but
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: I think we're getting close to things picking up a
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: little bit. We're gonna say we're already seeing the market
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: moving a little bit across the league. I'm sure we
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: will have more to come here in the next few weeks.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, you guys can follow along at Coy
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Samon Hagen. I'm at kieran on as Course, decly pot
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: page at Tiger Territory Underscore. Reminder, you can use code
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: black Friday at Tiger Territoryshop dot com for ten percent
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  Speaker 1: off your Tiger Territory merch. It is high quality and
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  Speaker 1: love ball when you're sporting Tiger Territory merch. So I
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  Speaker 1: hope you guys take advantage of that great deal. So
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: for Coy Stavenhagen, I am Karence Deackley. Everybody, have a
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: great night.