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Episode #125: Mail Bag: Joel & Sina Answer Your Questions · Beyond Labels Premium

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Hi, welcome to Beyond Labels.
0:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough, and I'm here with Joel Salatin, our favorite farmer.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: And today we have kind of a different podcast for you.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: We're doing a mailbag episode.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: We've had so much uh mail that we've received from our listeners, and we love receiving it.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: And we're finding that we don't have time to dedicate a whole podcast to each question.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna try to do more of a lightning round of questions with Joel and myself.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna jump right in.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: The first question comes from Sharon Newman.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: She says she saw an article about carbon sequestering that really raised her eyebrow.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Now it was in the Wall Street Journal.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: So I have I can't access the article, but Joel has accessed it.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: So he is going to explain to us what is happening with this new carbon sequestering technology and give us his thoughts.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so as you know, there's a there's a stampede right now in great big businesses to try to become carbon neutral or go to zero, whatever, um because of climate change.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: We we're not gonna get in all the debate about that, but but this latest is American Airlines, and um they're teaming up with an outfit called graphite.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: It's a startup.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'll just read you the paragraph that's that's critical here.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: Um it collects agricultural waste products such as sawdust or tree bark that naturally absorb carbon dioxide.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: It compresses that dried biomass into shoebox-sized bricks and seals it using a special barrier to prevent the plant matter from decomposing and releasing carbon.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: The bricks are then buried and monitored using an embedded tracer substance to ensure they are locking away carbon.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Now, I want you to just think about this.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Just think about this they're taking biomass and making sure it can never decompose.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Now, I want you to think about the most elemental building block of ecology, which is all about decomposition.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: What feeds earthworms, what feeds the soil, it's decomposition.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, if if this is if this is correct, then we should eliminate all compost piles and take all that carbon and bury it in landfills, you know, and and and make sure that it can't uh decompose.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: And so um the the truth is here here's the truth.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Here's my little my little bottom line note on it is this they're barking, ha, no pun intended, they're barking, barking up the wrong tree, bark, tree bark.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's the wrong goal.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: If they really want to reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, what they need is to take all this biomass, the sawdust, the bark, and all that stuff, and and use it in the soil to increase organic matter to grow more vegetation, and the vegetation then uses up the carbon dioxide.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: The way the ecology balance sheet works is when CO2 increases, plants increase, and then when CO2 decreases, plants decrease.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: That's the way it works.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: And so um without getting into all the you know the the chemistry of of carbon sequestration, all that stuff, the bottom line is that this is solar, solar created biomass that is here to create fertile soil, to grow healthier plants, to consume more carbon dioxide.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: So the entire idea of taking decomposable material and making it never decompose violates every principle of ecological cycling known, you know, known to exist.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, it's Baldur dash.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: That's the bottom line.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's crazy.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: What did it say what are what are they sealing it with to stop it from decomposing?
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Um it didn't it didn't say uh the the the main thing is that this system supposedly is um like they've got a chart here um the cost of carbon removal by metric ton and um direct air capture costs almost$700 per metric ton and graphite this new uh company is saying that they're gonna be able to do it for about$100 per metric ton.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: So if you're in American Airlines and you're trying to uh trying to get take tell your stockholders that we are carbon neutral, obviously, if you can drop from$700 a Q uh a metric ton to$100 a metric ton, it makes it much more viable to be able to tell your stockholders, you know, to be able to uh sequester that much carbon.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: But you know, I mean the very idea, I mean, think about this.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: I I didn't, I should have, I should have taken time to do some um some math on this, but um right now this company, it's um it's in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, collects waste from two timber mills and a rice milling operation.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: So they're using rice holes as well.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Um the company aims to start manufacturing its biomass bricks in January, burying them in July, hopes to be making roughly 140 pallets of blocks a day, enough to store 50,000 metric tons of carbon annually.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: 50,000 metric tons of carbon annually, okay?
6:31
SPEAKER_00: Um American Airlines generates, are you ready for this?
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Generates 35 million metric tons a year.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: So this plant that's gonna do 50,000 metric tons uh in order to do all of American Airlines would um no real-time calculator, 35 million divided by 50,000.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: It would take 700 of these plants, 700 of these plants to do American Airlines only.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: That would take uh um, yeah, it would be fun to do some more math on this, but but it's 700 of these plants would would take um mountains and mountains of biomass that currently is used for composting, municipal composting, livestock bedding that that then gets composted a lot of it, uh for for landscape mulch, for I mean, it it it it would it would make your your uh bark bults for your vegetable patch or your flower bed probably you know quadruple in price, uh, because there'd be a short it's Cena, it's nuts.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: It's just nuts.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: And it sounds crazy.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: I almost couldn't come up with a good solution.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it doesn't it it doesn't work, it it doesn't work practically, and it definitely doesn't work ecologically, it just it doesn't make any sense.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: But this is the kind of stuff you get from you know people that are smart about some things and not very smart about others, and well, and and let's leave it at that.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: I think I think that that's enough said.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, great.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Then I'm gonna go on in this lightning round to question number two.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: And again, this is a question for you, Joel.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is a farming question.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: This comes from Lisa, I believe it's uh Friel.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and she says she lives in northern um Ohio.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: She has young egg layers, or she got young egg layers this past summer.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: She has a mobile coop and a 49 square foot A-frame, um, a run that's covered on all sides with hardware cloth.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: We've been moving the chickens around my small suburban backyard every few days since we got them.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Now that it's cold, we're about to park the chickens for the winter in a stationary location because nothing is growing and because the weather makes moving them impractical.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: My plan at the moment is to rotate the chickens to new grass for the warm six months of the year and have them stationary for the other six months.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: So she has two questions.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: The first is a big one, she says.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: The second is a small one.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, as it's gotten colder when there is cold rain, hail, and snow, the chickens huddle in the very small covered area under their elevated coop.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: I had thought to increase their wintertime area to roam happily, since it is since it is so often precipitating, that I should cover their A-frame run with a clear plastic painter's tarp, pulling back about half of the plastic cover only if it was unseasonably warm or dry.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Now in episode 55, Joel emphasizes the need for the run slash compost scenario to be exposed to moisture.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: So does Joel think A, I should let the snow and cold rain come into the whole run all winter unabated?
10:24
SPEAKER_01: B, cover just the north 50% of the A-frame run area, or C, cover all of the A-frame roof is okay since the two vertical A sides will be open all winter to the elements.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, and I have to say, reading this, the A, B, and C options.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, Joel, it brought back so many flashbacks of tests during grad school.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was when it's a fight or flight.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Which one is it?
10:51
SPEAKER_01: A, B or C.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: A, B or C.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: So, Joel, which one is it?
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Which one is right?
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, uh the the I think my answer is it doesn't matter.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: I think the real the the unspoken thing here is when it rains, cold rain, hail, and snow, the chickens huddle in the very small covered area under the elevated coop.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: So my first response to you is your coop is not warm enough for the chickens.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: So the coop, the the the actual the the little the little area, the coop that you're actually calling their protected area is not comfortable enough for them.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: If you make that area more comfortable, i.e.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: uh tighten it up a little more, um uh maybe maybe put a little um a plastic hoop over it so it can be like a little bit of a you know, a little bit of a greenhouse there, um, a little additional canopy, so that the chickens can actually be comfortable in there when it's cold and rainy and snowy, then they will go out into the A-frame run, covered or not.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: And so so I don't think the covering the A-frame is really the question.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: The question is why are the chickens uncomfortable at any time?
12:13
SPEAKER_00: They should be comfortable, they should be able to get to a place of comfort all the time.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: And if they have that, they will venture out into the A-frame run whenever they want to.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and well, then I have a follow-up question for her.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's for you on behalf of her.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so but she said that you emphasize the need for the run slash compost scenario to be exposed to moisture.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: So if she's putting like a hoop, like I'm envisioning like a hoop house over it, doesn't that stop the moisture from coming in, like from the rain?
12:47
SPEAKER_01: Because you're blocking it.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it does.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: It does keep it from coming in.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: And uh now she says she's getting a lot of uh moisture seeping up and wicked from the ground from the ground, and and and I I totally get that.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know what?
13:02
SPEAKER_00: Um if she wants to cover it, that's great.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: If she doesn't, that's fine.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: What I'm concerned about is that those chickens are uncomfortable from time to time, and I want those chickens to be comfortable all the time, and if you solve that, then the run becomes uh kind of a moot point.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so maybe you could just cover part of it, like if if someone wanted to cover it, you could just cover enough to give them a space that would be warmer and then the rest would be exposed, right?
13:37
SPEAKER_01: Like, like if someone's having this problem that doesn't have the moisture seeping up from the ground, then maybe that could be a solution.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Just cover part of it, leave part of it open, or or or leave leave it, leave it completely open.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if it's a as long as the chickens have a commodious place to be warm in the in the inclement weather, whether it's cold or rainy or snowy or whatever, the inclement weather, as long as they can be comfortable in inclement weather, they will venture out whenever whenever they want to, without regards to you know, coverings or protection or anything like that.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: When they want to venture out, they will, um, as long as they have a commodious, comfortable place uh to be otherwise.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: I love that too.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: And I love your answers because it's so it's in such contrast to like an industrial farmer.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean, on the obvious levels, but at the level of the heart, right?
14:41
SPEAKER_01: Like it's not a checkbox where it's like, oh, this is the structure, this is what you do with it in all scenarios.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: It's really you're you're listening, you're like a chicken whisperer, right?
14:52
SPEAKER_01: You're listening to the chickens.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: What do they actually need, right?
14:56
SPEAKER_01: And you're sensing that from them, your visual, just the feel from it.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: And that is your primary concern.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: You're taking them as your cue of what you should do to help them.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's so that's in such stark contrast, I think, to most farmers, I would say, especially in the industrial area.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: If the if the ch if the chickens, if the chickens cannot get to a comfortable place, then that's your weak link, not whether the run is open or closed or anything like that.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh the the the critical thing is to have them a safe place, a safe place to get to.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: The other part of that question, Cena, is just um about enclosing that that bedding in the A-frame.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: She's got um uh she's got hardware cloth over it and asks, you know, do I need do I need sideboards for the you know, as we talked, the the carbonaceous diaper, uh the deep bedding in that run, or you know, do I need uh boards?
15:55
SPEAKER_00: Hey, if the hardware cloth will hold it, hold it in, you don't need boards.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh just just your hardware cloth is probably, you know, uh there's all sorts of hardware cloth, and I'm assuming that the holes are small enough and strong enough to hold the bedding in, with just you know, whatever your ribs are, your you know, your basic framework.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: And if that's the case, then yeah, don't worry about the boards, you'll be fine.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: All right, perfect.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: All right, now we're moving on to question number three.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: We're really doing a lightning round, Joel, for like the first time.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: See moving through the questions.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Question three comes from Nikki Gutman.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: She says, in the people's paste recipe, so this was part of my herbal first aid kit.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, she's asking, do you use the root or leaves with the golden seal and the comfrey?
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so these recipes are on my blog, which are on my website.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: And for both Golden Seal and Comfrey, for the wound healing, I use the roots.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, now both roots and leaves both have wound healing properties within them, but the roots have been studied extensively and shown to can typically typically contain higher levels of active compounds for wound healing.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: So, and in fact, golden seal root was traditionally used to treat the root the wounds, it was the root.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, to answer that question, I use both the leaves and the roots have beneficial properties for wound healing.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: I personally choose the roots.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: All right.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, and now next question.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: Question number four.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, this oh, I don't have the name on this one.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, Jill, do you have the name for the intuitive eating?
17:39
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't I don't.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't think the name I don't well, you you didn't send me the name.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if the name was on there or not, but okay.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, I apologize.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: I don't have the name.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: We don't we don't have the name, but anyway, but but we're thankful for the question anyway.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes, very thankful.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: So this person's asking, could we have an episode on intuitive eating?
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Dr.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Cena has mentioned intuitive eating several times.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: As someone has who has been eating whole and healthy foods for some time, I struggle a lot with trying to understand this.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: Yes, in fact, we had so many requests for intuitive eating that Joel and I just announced um I will be doing a monthly show that all of you will have free access to, but it will be a monthly show on how to do intuitive eating um and intuitive cooking.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, wish granted.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, next question.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: Now, um let me preface this one's a little controversial.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: This one is all Joel.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay, this one says, um, this is from Petra Farms.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: It says, hello, um, I love what you do and am so grateful.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: My question is this I know that God originally created us to live in the garden with plants for food, but then afterward gave us clean meats to eat.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: How do you justify eating unclean meats such as pork?
19:01
SPEAKER_01: The vision given to Peter wasn't about food, but about people.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's and I've heard that and it makes sense in context.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Also, the Bible says to not crave his delicacies, for that food is deceptive in Proverbs.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Also, pork carries different parasites and is super rich and fatty.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: What is your take on all this?
19:26
SPEAKER_00: All right, so this is a um a bit of a theological question, and um so I I I'll I'll defer to Cena on the the nutritive aspects of this uh if if um if we go there, but let's start with the the moral or the biblical uh view of this.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: And this is this is not uncommon, this is a very uh common thing.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: So so um first of all, yes, we do have the in Acts we have the uh the the you know Peter's vision and the curtain going down and then the direction to go visit Cornelius, and suddenly, you know, Peter and the other Jewish disciples realized, oh wow, you know, the Holy Ghost is gonna come on Gentiles too.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: That's a novel thing, and so that was that was a big deal.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: And then um, and then in Acts, um Acts 15, 10, um uh Peter is talking about these uh folks that are coming in saying that that the Christians, that the new believers in Christ have to be circumcised.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: And Peter says, uh, why do you tempt God to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
20:44
SPEAKER_00: In other words, so so realize that the the demand for circumcision is part of the law, the Levitical law is all wrapped up in the in in the act of circumcision.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: And so the the the the food laws, the Torah, the Levitical law is all um is all part of that circumcision.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: So so when Peter says, uh, why would you put this yoke, this yoke or this, this, this, you know, shackle uh upon the neck of of us, you know, you know, we couldn't conform to it, neither could our fathers, and so you know, we're not gonna do that now.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was that was one answer.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: And then you have um you have further in the chapter then.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: So they're wrestling with with well what what what is important for a dietary um a dietary rule.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: And uh in Acts 15, 20, they get the they get the answer.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, all of them in the Jerusalem Council, all the the apostles and disciples and all that, they agreed that they uh that there are three things, that three things not to eat.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Abstain from pollutions of idols.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: So um, so the thing things that were were offered to idols, uh, don't eat those and from fornication.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Um and from things strangled, uh, from things strangled and from blood.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: So don't eat blood, don't eat things that are strangled, and don't eat things that are offered to idols.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, it's interesting today, you know, if this if this had been written today, would he have said, you know, don't eat McDonald's?
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I don't I don't have a clue.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't have a clue.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: But um, but obviously these were these were the only three things, only three things that the early church said um was to abstain from.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: They they could have they could have said, well, you know, follow the Levitical law.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: They could have said, you know, all sorts of things, but but this chapter is all wrapped up on on what of the law do we have to follow.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: We don't even we don't even have to follow circumcision.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Circumcision was huge, you know, in their minds.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: And then the final little uh passage that I'll I'll refer to is in um Ephesians, Ephesians uh chapter two, where um the whole discussion is about the difference between you know uh post post-Christ crucifixion versus pre-crucifixion, and and and the Jews and the Gentiles, of course, the Ephesians, the Ephesians, the Ephesus, the Ephesus believers were all Gentiles, they were not Jews, and and so um in Ephesians 2, 13, Paul is telling them, um uh, you know, yeah, it used to be all Israel, but now in Christ Jesus, we you, he says, you, you Ephesians, you Gentiles, you Greeks, uh, who were who were sometimes were far off, you were far off of Israel, you were far off of the Jews, far off of the faith.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: You have now been made nigh by the blood of Christ, by the by the sacrifice of Christ.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: For he is our peace who has made both one, both the Jew and the Gentile one, and has listened to this, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us, having abolished in his flesh the enmity, the enmity, the the the tension, the disagreement, the war, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, ordinances.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: What are the ordinances?
24:26
SPEAKER_00: The Torah, the Torah, for to make in himself of two one new man, making peace between the Jew and the Gentile, and so um that he might reconcile both the Jew and the Gentile unto God in one body by the cross, having slain or killed or put to death the enmity, the tension, the disagreement uh between them.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: And so, so um, you know, from a from a theological standpoint, I I can't imagine any justification right now in our current dispensation post-crucifixion, um, can we say post-christmas, uh, in which these Levitical Um uh dietary regulations passed on to the new dispensation, which was after Christ came and then the Holy Spirit came, and we had a totally new that we had the church age, the church age as opposed to the Jewish age, where you know if you wanted to, if you wanted to be saved, you you be you converted to Judaism.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh, today you don't have to, as we've just seen, uh, that enmity, that tension has been broken down, and now the path for both Jew and Gentile is through that um it is through Christ who came.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: And and so there there is no middle wall of partition, there is no tension, there is no regulatory structure um except for don't eat things uh offered to idols.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: Um maybe our our current American idol is Wall Street.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: So if something's if something's been um been grown uh that is sacrificed to Wall Street, maybe that's our cultural idol.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to debate, I just want to throw that out just for for you know relevance.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and things strangled and blood.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Those were the three prohibitions that passed on into the into the church age um by the apostles in Acts.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: That was like a sermon, right?
26:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, a mini sermon for all of us and our listeners.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not even gonna touch on the biblical aspect of it.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: I think you just did a fantastic job.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, but what is your take on the pork carries different parasites and is super rich and fatty?
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Um well, the benefits of lard um are quite, you know, are quite known.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: I I also think, yeah, uh they are they are known for parasites, but that's why you cook it.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: And um also let me just say this too.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes things things are um it depends on how they're raised.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: A lot of differences exist on how they're raised.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: And so I I've often wondered, and and and now I'm straying way off of biblical theology, so you know, don't don't burn me at the stake for this um as a heretic, but um sometimes I wonder if some of the Levitical prohibitions were simply because these things and in that time, in that time, just couldn't or were not being raised uh in a hygienic way.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: And so the easy thing was just to prohibit it rather than try to have another whole uh you know uh uh uh book of the Torah to, well, if they're raised this way, then it's okay.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: And if they're not raised this way, then it's you know I don't know.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I know uh I mean the the parable of the prodigal son where you know uh where he went and fed the fed the husks to the swine, um, you know, they they were they were not raised in in very sanitary ways at that time.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: We know that.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: And so uh was some of this just that it was you know it was difficult to um you know to raise them in a clean way.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Today we've got electric fence, electric fence.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: We can move them around all the time.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: We uh, you know, we we um can feed them other things.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: We can feed them nice clean grains instead of just you know rotten food.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: And you know, there um so there's there there's other ways uh to raise them today that's very different than it was the old the old you know historical pig sty of of yesteryear.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would add to that uh to piggyback on what you're saying.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: Um piggyback, yeah.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Do that intentionally.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm just inherently funny, I guess.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: So my husband's wrong.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: I am funny.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: Like that's right.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Um yes.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, I used to avoid fat, right?
29:45
SPEAKER_01: I bought it to the low fat crays, and now I don't.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Now I eat the fatty animals and I eat the skin on the chicken, and I'll eat the fat on the pork chop.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so personally, my body loves it.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think we've dispelled the fat myth even on this podcast.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: So I don't need to say any more about that.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it is true.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: If you look in the literature, it talks about different um what they call pathogens associated with pork, but there's also pathogens associated with uh meat and poultry.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, and in fact, while you're talking, I just pulled up one study um published in um PubMed that mentions that there's uh more than 9 million cases of foodborne illnesses um annually in the United States.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you break down where are those foodborne illnesses coming from, um, first of all, when they're coming from meat, it's largely they're saying from it, like Joel said, it's not cooked properly, right?
30:45
SPEAKER_01: So it's um you haven't killed any potential pathogens.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: It says though that the majority of viral illnesses were attributed to leafy vegetables, right?
30:59
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about this before with you know spinach and lettuce, and that's why one of your biggest tips is if you're gonna grow one thing, grow your own lettuce, right?
31:08
SPEAKER_01: So, so so the majority of viral illnesses were attributed to leafy vegetables, fruits, nuts, and dairy products.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: The majority of bacterial illnesses were attributed to dairy, which came in at 18%, poultry, which came in at 18%, and and beef commodities, which came in at 13%.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: They said overall the meat, poultry commodities together, so that's beef, game, pork, and poultry, accounted for 22% of illnesses, but specifically poultry was linked to more deaths, 19%, more deaths than any other food commodity was linked to poultry.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: So and yeah, the fact is today, today, Cena, um we are our the chick chicken is by far raised more uh what more filthy than pork or beef in in a cafo, in a in a concentrated animal feeding operation, the pig and the beef is cleaner than the chicken.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: And so the the statistic the statistic the data that you're reading bears that out.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: And so uh today, you know, uh a chicken is riskier to eat than pork in today's world.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: That was not the world that the Bible was written in.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: And so it goes to your point of it really depends on what system you're buying your your meat, your chicken, your eggs from, right?
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Because it depends on how they're raised.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's also uh there's a whole list of different outbreaks of foodborne diseases and meat and meat products.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can go back years and years, but if you look at it, um, so I'm looking at a list right now from 2005 to 2015, and we have one from the US uh norovirus from packaged delicatessen meat.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Then you have E.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: coli from ground beef and then E.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: coli from beef and then E.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: coli from beef and then salmonella from turkey, salmonella from beef, salmonella from beef, salmonella from chicken.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: And there's one salmonella from pork.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not saying that it doesn't happen.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: That's clearly not what I'm saying.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm saying it's a complex system, food system that we have.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: It's not like you're raising your own, you know where it's been, you know, you have your own relationship with the slaughterhouse or you slaughter it yourself.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: It's a very complex system.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: And when you rely on the industrial food system, um, you are exposing yourself to the potential to foodborne disease in not just pork, but any of the meats, right?
33:55
SPEAKER_01: So it's really a risk.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: It's another reason to know your farmer.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I don't think too, uh Cena, one other just little quick tidbit is that I do think that there is more awareness about this in pork.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: And so pork very seldom gets cooked rare.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: Meat gets cooked rare, chicken is often undercooked.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh, chicken should fall apart.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: If that chicken, if that chicken isn't falling apart, it's not it's not cooked right.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: And and and so so pork is often cooked, uh, very, you know, pulled pork.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: Pulled you you you can't make you know good pulled pork sandwiches unless it's completely tender and cooked all the way down.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: And so pork of all the of all the meats, um, pork is the most seldom uh undercooked of all of them.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: And and that that obviously, you know, um speaks to the issue as well.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: It does.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: And again, though, you know, Joel and I are both libertarian.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: Eat whatever you want to eat, right?
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Eat whatever you like, right?
35:01
SPEAKER_01: We're not telling you not to eat it, we're not telling you to eat it.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: It it's your choice, right?
35:05
SPEAKER_01: It's your journey.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: And Joel, we got through five questions.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: We're out of time, but we got through five questions.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: That's a record for us.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: We did, we did.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: That was that was great.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, these are good, and everybody, believe me, we love, we love your feedback, we love your questions.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: We want to be, we want to be the family that that that you can come to every week and affirm you in um in questioning the orthodoxy, in swimming upstream, and daring to think differently and uh and and think beyond labels.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: And so uh so thank you for your feedback and your questions, and uh we'll we'll answer what we can when we can.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for taking uh your time to visit with us again, investing it with us in another Beyond Labels episode, and we'll look forward to visiting with you next week.