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Episode 002 - The Wonder of Job's Story · The Holy Wonder Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:07
  Speaker B: Welcome back, everyone, to the Holy Wonder podcast. Today we're opening up one of the most remarkable books in all of scripture, the Book of Job. And we're going to search for wonder within it. Job's a story full of great things to ponder. From the opening scene in the heavenly courts to the whirlwind when God finally speaks, this book pulls back a curtain most of us never get to see behind.
• 0:30
  Speaker C: But Job is also a story full of suffering. Very few figures in the Bible lose as much as fast or as inexplicably as Job does. His wealth, his children, his health. Gone, seemingly all at once. Then the lament of chapter three. And the sheer honesty of a man broken by his circumstances. He longs for vindication, but only gets humiliation. Thankfully, the God who humbles is also the God who forgives and restores.
• 0:58
  Speaker B: Woven throughout the wonder and the suffering is something otherworldly. Job gives us a rare glimpse into a conversation between God and an adversary that looks a lot like Satan. It gives us a glimpse into forces and realities operating far beyond what Job himself, or even we, can see and understand.
• 1:19
  Speaker C: Then this book confronts us with the most pressing question any of us will ever ask. Why do bad things happen not in the abstract, but to good people, to faithful people, to people who are doing everything right? As we begin this series exploring the moments where we find wonder, we want to start by appreciating the wonder of Job himself. His experience, his faith, his God, and ultimately his survival.
• 1:43
  Speaker B: And as we begin, we. We want to marvel at something else, too. God's patience with us through our own pain and suffering. Because if Job teaches us anything, it's that God is present in our toughest questions and our darkest days. I'm your host, Neal Mathis, here once again with Andy Yant. And after a short break, let's dig in.
• 2:34
  Speaker A: Hello, Andy.
• 2:35
  Speaker C: Hello, Neil.
• 2:36
  Speaker A: I'm so glad that we are here today and that we get to spend time with my favorite book of the Bible. I'm a little jealous, but you got first pick and you took Job as your moment of wonder. In particular, all the patience that's flowing from both God and him. So I'm so excited that we can do this. And I think you know, this that I'm not afraid to say from the pulpit and just general conversations that what we learn from Job is maybe as important as any book of the Old Testament. And some might recoil at that a little bit because they're like, well, we find out where we came from in Genesis, and we find out our spiritual Ancestry through all the books of history. And we see the coming of Christ and the prophets and the righteous feelings of God's faithful in the psalms and prophets, Proverbs. But Job answers Andy, what might be the single most prominent question that I face from people who are curious in the Bible, why do bad things happen? Now, they often add the little addendum, why do bad things happen to good people? Or why do bad things happen to me? But this book answers that question, and I'm so grateful we get to spend time talking about it today. I'm just going to say up front, thank you for picking this.
• 4:00
  Speaker C: You're welcome. Thanks for speaking about it the last few months, because it's been in the forefront of my mind because of that.
• 4:05
  Speaker A: Well, I'm glad to hear that. If I can get anyone more interested in this ancient book, I am ecstatic. As we begin, I want to make sure that the two of us are on the same page about the things we have to know about Job. And that means we want everyone listening at home or in their car, wherever they might be, on the same page with us. So, Andy, let's take a couple minutes to talk about the background of Job. This book might be the oldest written piece of literature in the Old Testament. Job categorically fits into the timeline of what we would call the patriarchs. He's existing before the law of Moses has been delivered at Mount Sinai. He's existing before Israel is a fully formed nation. And so he lives in a time that is very different than our time, and it's full of familiar stories and people, but I don't know how familiar we are with the actual term and what it means to be called a patriarch.
• 5:03
  Speaker C: Let's talk about that. We hear it with other biblical characters and biblical people, but Job's not usually mentioned in that way, and he's not
• 5:11
  Speaker B: because he sits outside of the traditional range of them. That's right there in the book of Genesis. So the first patriarch would be Adam, the father of us, all, right?
• 5:22
  Speaker C: Correct.
• 5:23
  Speaker B: And he has this unique relationship with God where they walk and talk with each other. You see, those characteristics carry through in the next generation. With his sons, God speaks to both Cain and Abel. And then as the generations keep going on, you jump ahead a little bit. You get Noah, Genesis 6. God speaks to him, tells him to build the ark. And then you get Abraham, God speaking to this father of the faithful, Right? He says, leave your father's house in Genesis 12 and go to the place I'm sending you. Then he comes back and he speaks to him again. And there are documented moments of God doing that with these men who serve as fathers of their families. Now, sometimes those families are bigger than just, you know, the four of you and the five of us that live in our houses. Those are large families think of like tribes and nations. Even Abraham is the father of a nation. Joshua was the leader of a nation. And so these patriarchs serve as father figures. Job gives us a great illustration because not only was he the head of his household and a great man in the east, but he was their priest. He offered sacrifices. And so we would put him in a position where we would say he serves as the intermediary between God and his family, and God speaks to him. Now, the dynamics of how God spoke to all of these patriarchs is a little lost on us, Andy. Sometimes God spoke to them like you and I are speaking today. Build an ark, leave your father's house. But we don't know how. All the other times God spoke, and there might have been just a Neil or an Andy that lived alongside of them that don't fit into this, you know, character study of Adam to David to Jesus. Yet they were still patriarchs in their household, and God spoke to them in some way. I'm a big believer that one of two things happened. One, God spoke to all of them directly, like he did the great heroes of faith. So they got instructions about how to offer sacrifices and what to teach their children, and law and order and righteousness was a conversation they had with God. Now, that conversation could have been in a dream. That conversation could have been in a
• 7:43
  Speaker A: booming voice from heaven.
• 7:44
  Speaker B: I'm uncomfortable telling you it had to be one or both or either. That's one option. Second option would be is every family had a patriarch, but not every generation had a patriarch.
• 7:59
  Speaker A: And in that instance, you think about Noah. He was the patriarch for his family.
• 8:05
  Speaker B: And God never directly communicated to Shamham or Japheth, but through Noah, they knew God's wishes.
• 8:13
  Speaker A: And then you have some generational time
• 8:14
  Speaker B: that passes, and God doesn't speak to
• 8:17
  Speaker A: all of those children, but then he speaks to Abraham. I guess we technically would call him Abram them.
• 8:23
  Speaker B: And so there are generational stops along
• 8:26
  Speaker A: the way where not every father is a patriarch, but every patriarch is a father, father of a nation, tribe, kingdom, family, that then dispenses what God says through the generations. I'm not here to tell you that the Bible gives us a definitive answer
• 8:43
  Speaker B: for which one is true, but I
• 8:45
  Speaker A: think that there's a lot of smoke around either option, because God spoke to both Cain and Abel right after he had spoken to Adam. There is definitely a precedent, looking at Abraham to Isaac to Jacob to Joseph, of God directly intervening, talking, communicating, sharing with them, messages. But then there are big gaps, Andy. And so we put characters like Job into this patriarchal period.
• 9:13
  Speaker C: That makes sense. It reminds me though, of the responsibility of the patriarchs and the greater number that some of them may have had and how that parallels with us as fathers. Oh, yeah, the household of five. You have the household of four. I have Job offering the sacrifices and doing what he did for his children. It's just a parallel of what we need to do for our children, of how we need to make sacrifices in a different way, but we need to put our family first. And the parallels, Old Testament, just another example of how we can use them today.
• 9:44
  Speaker B: Sure. Like the Old Testament is full of all this vivid imagery, right? Their physical sacrifices are our spiritual sacrifices. You know, they left their father's house to travel to a completely different nation. We're simply told to leave this world and live in a different one without changing location, without changing address. You know, there's not a country that we go settle in. That's the land of Canaan. We make Canaan in the land where we settle. So their actions are almost like a shadow of what our actions will be and everything builds upon it. But they did these things that are just truly exceptional. Job is, for all we can see, not just a good man, one of the best men ever. God pays him that compliment. The compiler of this book pays him that compliment. And we sit here today talking about him thousands of years later. And I can tell you, I will tell you that about him when I grow up. One day I would love to be considered someone that is even similar to Job. And I use that phrase because nothing about me thinks of him as a middle aged man, as a young man. I think of him as what he is, an aged man. You know, a man who has lived his life preparing for this challenge and he was unaware of how difficult it would be. That's where the limit comes in. But he also listened to God in a way only a real learned man does. Someone who's experienced right and wrong and catches it. So the right and wrong is a real big topic of discussion in Job and Andy. We've discussed this a little bit, but I want to make sure everyone's on the same page. The book of Job, to understand it, you have to understand his world. And in their world, they believed in something that has a Big fancy theological name called the doctrine of retribution. And you may never have heard of that term before, but you know what it means.
• 11:56
  Speaker A: Because we live in a world where
• 11:57
  Speaker B: we believe good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people. That's the thing that we want to see. So if I roll up my sleeves and I work hard, what should I get?
• 12:09
  Speaker A: Should get a reward if I'm a good person, Andy.
• 12:12
  Speaker B: And I run a business in a
• 12:14
  Speaker A: right manner where I treat customers.
• 12:16
  Speaker B: They're supposed to be what should happen to my business.
• 12:18
  Speaker C: You should prosper.
• 12:19
  Speaker A: You absolutely should. In fact, we even call it the prosperity gospel. Job's world believed good things happen to good people. And that he is the greatest man in the east is attributed not to his character, but to the list of his wealth. And because he is so wealthy, he must be, what, so faithful?
• 12:43
  Speaker C: Very faithful, very just.
• 12:45
  Speaker B: And when he loses all of that, that's why his wife and his friends cannot come to terms with his cry for vindication.
• 12:54
  Speaker A: And they use words like, you're a fraud, you fooled us. You must have hidden all of this. She even says, and we need to give her a little, a little bit more grace. She wishes him. She wishes death for him because she says, you can't stand anymore and say, I am this person, so just fade away and be removed from this guilt. She wanted compassion. She wanted him to move past the pain of what he was dealing with.
• 13:25
  Speaker B: Not an accusation that you're a terrible,
• 13:28
  Speaker A: awful person, just an accusation that maybe you weren't what we thought you were. So that doctrine, that thought that we still believe in today, even though it's bogus, is prevalent throughout the history of faithful people. John 9 is a great instance of that. Andy. Jesus is with his disciples, and they stumble upon a man who's blind and he's begging. And they ask the question to Jesus, who sinned, this man who's born blind, or his parents. And Jesus says, neither. He was born blind. That you would see the works of God today. Job experienced all of this so that we'd see the works of God. You and I experience our own Job like moments, probably not in that intensity, but to us in that frequency.
• 14:19
  Speaker B: And that's the moment where we're learning that the works of God are seen in our survival. The works of God are seen in our trust and faith in him. And the works of God are not seen in what we have. They're seen in what he provides. And those are not always understood to be the same, because when I work really hard, I Don't always give God the credit. I say, look at what I have done. Look at my wealth. And in that moment, that moment, I gotta understand something important, that it never was mine and it never really truly will be mine. It was always his. And his faith in me and his trust in me is partly why those blessings are sitting at my door today. We'll really understand that when we get into the text. But that doctrine of retribution, the background, what scholars think of Job being an ancient book, maybe the most ancient, the world that he lived in just tells us so, so much to appreciate. And I am grateful that we can take the time to do it. So I think we've set the stage enough. You ready to dig into this?
• 15:25
  Speaker C: Let's do it.
• 15:26
  Speaker B: All right, Andy, I'm going to let you. I guess we're going to say take the wheel a little bit. Start with a couple of things here for everyone that's listening. What was it that is so impressive to you about our man named Job?
• 15:42
  Speaker C: There's a few things, but Job's endurance obviously stands out. He. He put up with what we can't even imagine. He lost everything that meant anything to him, down to his own health. And he didn't give up. He continued to be faithful. And the initial part of that is what really made me think of this story for what we're talking about. But digging in deeper and thinking about it on a different level. God had faith in Job. He had belief in Job, that Job would endure and that Job would. Would stand the test. And throughout multiple tests, he did. And it made me realize, not for the first time, but made me think about it again. God has that same belief in us. And even though we're tested, do we have that belief in ourself? I don't think we do as much as we should sometimes. And Job's example, it just stands out for many reasons. But that was the main things.
• 16:42
  Speaker B: You know, it's not everyone whom God says, and I'm going to quote Job, chapter one, verse eight, not all of us. The Lord says this about when the Lord's talking to one called the Accuser, the adversary, probably translated as Satan. In all of your Bibles, he says, have you considered my servant Job? I love that line, my servant, like it's already a compliment before he even gets into it. There is none like him on the earth. He is as a blameless man who is upright. He fears God and he turns away from evil. Those are four great descriptions. And what I find amazing about this story, because we're Taken away from this world. The book starts with this great description of what makes Job great, right? And you can go through it. He was born in the land of uzum. He has 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, 500 female donkeys, many servants. He has sons and daughters and influence and respect. He has all of this, right? And then the story leaves. Our world goes to. We would call it this heavenly realm because we don't have a word that we can, like, attach to it, this place where God dwells, right? And it looks like a court, particularly like a medieval court, where the king sits on his throne and all the nobility and all the servants come before him. And they say, I've conquered this in your name, and I've brought this in your name, right? And one who appears is an accuser, an adversary. That's literally what the name Satan or Satan means.
• 18:33
  Speaker A: It's a title.
• 18:35
  Speaker B: And while this character fits all the descriptions that we see that are consistent with that devil character from the New Testament that is prowling, that is hunting us, that tempted Jesus. In Matthew chapter 4, God has a conversation with him. And there's no introduction, there's no formality to it. There's just this conversation. The Lord asks them, you know, from where have you come? Satan tells him, I'm going to and fro on the earth. God says, have you considered my servant Job? There's none like him.
• 19:09
  Speaker A: He's great.
• 19:11
  Speaker B: The accuser says that you, Lord, have hedged him in.
• 19:16
  Speaker A: You've protected him from me.
• 19:18
  Speaker B: So of course he's faithful to you.
• 19:21
  Speaker A: And he proves in that moment that he believes in the doctrine of retribution too.
• 19:26
  Speaker B: Does he truly believes that if I
• 19:29
  Speaker A: hurt you enough, you'll turn your back on God? That's what this whole book is about. And I love your line just a minute ago. I want to believe that they're having that conversation today about you and me. I want to believe that, that they're having that conversation about all of us. And we are spoken of as highly as Job was.
• 19:50
  Speaker C: You said the word a second ago. Compliment. Job, as far as we know, never knows really what happened.
• 19:56
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 19:57
  Speaker C: Why it happened. He knows what happened, but not why.
• 19:59
  Speaker A: No explanation is given.
• 20:00
  Speaker C: This was actually a compliment to Job. And that's hard to understand, but God had that much trust and faith and belief in Job that he knew he was a just and righteous person. And as you said, I hope we qualify for that same conversation.
• 20:18
  Speaker B: It's a really nice thought to think that the Bad things that happen to you are because God has belief in you. Like, but I don't think that's our standard operating procedure. That's not our. What do you call our go to. Yeah, like, our factory settings are not that way. When bad things happen, I've heard people say to my face, I feel distant from God. Yet in that moment right here, you have maybe a closer connection to God than you can imagine. If this is truly what's happening today, then when Satan is targeting you, it's because God the Father has belief in you that he doesn't in others. I mean, that kind of blows my mind when I learned that, and I'll never forget, I was sitting in class at freed Hardemann University, Dr. Clyde Woods. It was seminar in Job. And I remember, like, it felt like those eureka moments. You remember those? You ever seen those? Like, the clouds part and the sun falls on you and there's like, yes. You know, and there's this musical background playing, and you're like, whoa, this is not about Job being a bad guy. This is about Job being the best guy. And he faces this because he's able to face it. Now, that would tie in really well with the New Testament. You know, you're not given more than you can bear. No, temptation can't truly be overcome. You know, you can really hold on to the theological, like, thread that's running through the Bible of Satan is not stronger than God. He does not have to be stronger than you. He is dangerous, and he does threaten and he does carry through with his threats, but he is defeatable.
• 22:10
  Speaker C: He only wins if we allow him to win.
• 22:12
  Speaker B: I think that's a really good point. You know, the New Testament tells us if you resist him, he will flee from you. You know that. That doesn't sound like someone that defeats me. That sounds like someone who's afraid of me. And I'm of the persuasion that Job's story is purposefully a pattern for all of us. We might not be the greatest man in the east, we might not have thousands of sheep and camels, and we might not have a family of 10 children, but we face temptations and suffering that are similar to this. And our response to what God is doing can be similar as well. Full of frustration, wanting vindication. And then when we hear God speak, realize that what we needed more than anything is the humiliation to be humbled and say, God, I trust your answer, even if it's not mine. I'm just. I think you could tell we could spend hours talking about this man. There are threads that run through this book that go beyond what it is you're amazed with. So I'm going to pull back on some of my threads and maybe we'll get to them one day. I love that his patience in particular is something that we stand in awe of. You know, question I would ask you, and I'm curious about this.
• 23:36
  Speaker A: Do you think.
• 23:39
  Speaker B: Do you think we overlook Job because we think it's impossible to do what he did?
• 23:46
  Speaker C: I think we don't realize what we're capable of with God's help.
• 23:50
  Speaker A: Nice.
• 23:51
  Speaker C: And we can do anything he tells us. He won't put anything on us we can't bear.
• 23:57
  Speaker B: That's right.
• 23:58
  Speaker C: And we. We need to use Job as an example that we can do the same. Not as a superhero. That makes it seem out of our reach. And it also helps me to realize we can't appreciate the great times if we don't have the bad times. And as hard as that is to realize when you're in the midst of it, it's the truth. If every day was great, we would not appreciate it. We're complacent now with so much because it seems normal to us. But when we have the tough times and we get through them, the good times are that much better.
• 24:32
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 24:32
  Speaker B: Great. Great thought. I have a question for you to think about. If Job didn't have the fairy tale ending and it just ended with him saying, I now repent, do we think less of it? Do we love the fairy tale ending?
• 24:47
  Speaker C: We do. And it makes the story more relatable and where we can maybe enjoy the happy ending.
• 24:56
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Speaker A: What if.
• 24:58
  Speaker B: What if, though? What if there's not a happy ending? What if the wealth doesn't come back? What if the children aren't born? What if you're just. This is just the burden you have to carry?
• 25:13
  Speaker C: Job endured. So in my mind, he still wins.
• 25:16
  Speaker B: However. Very good.
• 25:17
  Speaker C: Yeah. As a worldly. You know, from a worldly standpoint, we probably wouldn't see it quite that way. But if he continued to endure and what God said in job 1 8, if he says that at chapter 42, then job still 1. He just may not have all the stuff. But he with the most stuff doesn't always win.
• 25:37
  Speaker B: Yes. I love that. We definitely make sure that's understood that God's not good because he restored it. God was good throughout it.
• 25:47
  Speaker C: It was almost a bonus.
• 25:48
  Speaker B: It is. You know, And I've read somewhere and I wish I could remember where. And I didn't have time to look at but one of the scholars that's written over Job in the past paints the end of Job as an analogy for heaven. And Job's experiences with all the ups and downs is an analogy for life. And it says, this is. This is life, right? You're given blessings that are too numerous to understand. Those blessings are taken from you incrementally. Think about us, middle age, right? We're starting to lose our athleticism and youthful looks. And, you know, we can see some of those blessings are already diminishing a little bit in their intensity. And you can notice that, hey, maybe there are some years ahead that I have less than I had behind and all those things. And you're kind of like coming to terms with these things he came to terms with. And every now and then, you get a little vindicated. You're like, God, I need 10 more years. God, I've got this I've got to do, and I've got that I've got to do. And maybe you lose your health or you lose something, and you just get caught up in that moment. Then God speaks, and you're like, oh, okay, I gotcha. I understand now. I thought I did, but I didn't. And Job's reward ultimately, is not the restoration of all his wealth. It's the reality of he understands God better. And, you know, he says this very classical line near the end of the book that we will definitely get at in our second part of today's podcast, where he says, I heard of you before, but now I see you like. And for anyone that's gone through personal health and all the problems that can arise with that, you've lost loved ones, heaven forbid. You've had to be a widow, a widower. You've had to bury a child. For those who have remained faithful in my life, my conversations with them, they are more clear in their faith after the moment than they were before. That doesn't mean that their faith was worth piling on before, but there's clarity, having gone through that, that they now believe without any doubt and without any uncertainty that the God who brought them through it is the God who is bringing them to a reunion.
• 28:19
  Speaker A: While one day, I'm amazed by that.
• 28:23
  Speaker B: And I think Job's story sets the stage. As we kind of start to think about wrapping up this first part, is
• 28:31
  Speaker A: there anything about the suffering that he
• 28:34
  Speaker B: went through that you are particularly
• 28:39
  Speaker A: in awe of?
• 28:40
  Speaker B: Is it the totality of it? Is it the very personal nature of it? Is it.
• 28:46
  Speaker A: Is there anything that sticks out that you're like, I want to make sure people know.
• 28:49
  Speaker B: I think that's pretty cool.
• 28:52
  Speaker C: The. I don't know if this is cool, but the rapid succession with which he went through everything, I mean, one guy couldn't get through speaking hardly before the next appeared. And there's no recovery time. There's no, let me catch my breath. And then when he gets done hearing all that, job worshiped God. 1 verse 20. He didn't complain, he didn't have a pity party. He worshiped. And to be able to. To me, that shows his true heart, because it wasn't instinct that did that. That was his heart. That was what he knew to do. It wasn't a, you know, spur of the moment thing. That was his heart. And so the totality of the suffering with. And his reaction, you know, and this is early on, obviously he hasn't gotten everything yet. But as far as the succession of everything early on, with the possessions, the personal, you know, the potsherds for scratching himself and trying to endure that, it's unimaginable. But the totality of everything being so fast and no time to think about it, no time to recover, but he immediately worships God.
• 30:09
  Speaker B: One of my favorite terms to use, and it's not original with me, but the hyperlinks that you find from one story to the next in Scripture, where you're like, the Holy Spirit wanted us to see this, David, after his sin with Bathsheba and the pronouncement upon that child that would die, you'll remember he went and he worshiped and he prayed and he fasted. And when he heard that the child had died, he got up and instead of eating and meeting his physical needs, he went and worshiped again. Yes, yes to all of that, right? To these two men who were living through awful circumstances right now. One of them is his own doing. One of them was the doing of a world that is. Well, a world that's challenging. Yet their response to suffering in both moments was the same. Let me praise God for who he is. I've told the story before, and I'll say it again. There are some personal friends of mine who are some of my favorite people in the world, Andy. And I won't mention them by name over here, but many people who know me will know who I'm talking about. A couple of years ago, their son died. And he was 8, almost 9 at the time, if I remember correctly. And he passed away the early part of a weekend.
• 31:33
  Speaker A: It was Friday afternoon, Saturday morning, and Sunday morning.
• 31:37
  Speaker B: They were sitting in their seat at the church building. And it caught a lot of people off guard.
• 31:43
  Speaker A: And their response was, where else do we have to be? Now, that speaks to their character. That speaks a lot like David and Job to their heart. Yes, it was broken, but who's going
• 31:57
  Speaker C: to repair it in that instance? I think it also speaks to the importance of a church family.
• 32:03
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 32:03
  Speaker C: I don't know how people go through things. I can't imagine going through that. But I can't see how people go through things without a church family. And that example is an incredible one of them knowing between God and their church family, that's what was going to get them through it.
• 32:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. That's what makes Job's story even more
• 32:22
  Speaker B: remarkable, because he suffered.
• 32:24
  Speaker C: Exactly.
• 32:24
  Speaker B: And he was the target of the ones who should have been saying, hey, I'm here for you.
• 32:30
  Speaker C: Exactly.
• 32:31
  Speaker A: So, yeah, I think that's wonderful.
• 32:34
  Speaker B: I appreciate all of that.
• 32:37
  Speaker A: You know, there's a line at the end of chapter two that I really want us to focus on before we take a break, because we've got a
• 32:46
  Speaker B: whole conversation about chapter three.
• 32:47
  Speaker A: I think chapter three might be the most beautiful section of pain in all of Scripture. It feels worth so much discussion. But there's a line near the end of chapter two that I'm curious for you to think about. It's about his friends, and it starts in verse 11. It talks about Job's three friends, heard
• 33:10
  Speaker B: all the evil that had come upon
• 33:11
  Speaker A: him, and they came from their own place, these three guys, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophara. They travel to get there, and they make an appointment to do it. So it's almost like they're traveling, if not together, at the same time. Like we, like. Like we'll go together to make things better for him. And it says in verse 12 that they saw him from a distance and they didn't recognize him. Now, you talked a minute ago about, you know, he got afflicted with boils, and so he was scraping himself with, you know, pottery, you know, just scratching away.
• 33:47
  Speaker B: I'm.
• 33:49
  Speaker A: I don't know that I can put this into words that are gonna make sense for everyone, but I want to say this. Do you remember the last time you saw someone who was unrecognizable, but you knew it was them?
• 34:01
  Speaker C: I do.
• 34:02
  Speaker A: It was. It was their face, or it was their disposition, or it was their. It was just how they interacted with you. Right. I remember that moment. You know, just not that long ago. I was having a conversation with a young person, and they. They were going through it, and they Are. I'm going to use the term, they're fun to be around. And no one wanted to be around him that day. And he was broken, you know, just mentally. And it was resulting in a break physically. And it's hard to see that it really is. And that's who Job is. He is unrecognizable. And so when we think about our suffering, we think about the suffering of people in our lives, right? The unrecognizable to us is still recognizable to God. Job doesn't look like Job to anyone in the world, but he is still who to God? My servant, who's blameless and upright, who fears me and shuns evil. And today I hope that one of the great lessons that everyone listening takes away from this is that in your moment of despair, God's view of you doesn't change now. The world's view of you changes, right? But God's doesn't. You're still his servant. And all the qualities that you possessed before are all the qualities he expects you to keep through and all the qualities that you should be thought of as you pass beyond it. Job is still blameless and upright, fearing God and shunning evil at the end of the story. To me, that's the key to being in awe of what he did. He was unshakable, even though his heart felt shaken. And what defined him was not what you saw outward, but what was inward.
• 36:06
  Speaker C: His faith was deep rooted. You spoke about roots last night in Bible study.
• 36:10
  Speaker A: I did.
• 36:10
  Speaker C: And the importance of roots. We don't have trees. We don't have anything that grows without roots.
• 36:15
  Speaker B: That's right.
• 36:15
  Speaker C: And his faith was very deep rooted. It wasn't just on the surface.
• 36:20
  Speaker B: You know, he even says it. I think it's chapter 23. I'm going to put myself to a test here, here, because I don't have it all memorized, but I think it's chapter 23. Oh, yeah, verse 12. Even in his frustration, he's asking through 23. You know, he says things like, my complaint is bitter. I would lay my case before God. I would fill my mouth with arguments and all of that. He feels, you know, frustrated. Look at what he says in verse 12. He says, I have not departed from the commandment of his lips. I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my portion of food. There's faith that is deep and noteworthy, like the root of a tree you're trying to knock over.
• 37:02
  Speaker C: He goes on to say in 14. That was one of my notes is for he will complete what he appoints for me. And many such things are in his mind.
• 37:10
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 37:12
  Speaker C: It's just he knew that God had his hand over him and was with him.
• 37:20
  Speaker B: I love that line. He will complete in me. You know, that. That. That kind of feels New Testament coded, you know, the work that was started in us, Jesus will complete on the day of salvation, on the day of judgment. It all started before, you know, before anyone knew us, you know, when we were being formed in our mother's womb. Just intricate details and darkness. God had a plan for us, and he was cementing those plans with his will. And Job, even in his frustration, seems to understand that. I am standing in awe of that today. Very, very amazed that a person made of the same stuff I'm made of can survive something that I think would defeat me. And if he can survive it, then, you know, when bad news knocks on my door, Andy, I think I should be able to survive it, too.
• 38:18
  Speaker C: We've got the example to look back at. It can be done.
• 38:21
  Speaker B: I'm so glad that you picked this one. Are you ready to dig into chapter three?
• 38:25
  Speaker C: I'm ready.
• 38:26
  Speaker B: All right, well, for all of you listening at home, we're going to take a short break, and when we get back, we're going to dig into chapter three, Job's lament and the cries of a man who was bitter. This is the Holy Wonder podcast. Thank you for listening. We'll be back in a few
• 38:43
  Speaker C: sa.
• 39:09
  Speaker B: Welcome back, everybody. It's time for us to finish our study of the book of Job. We're going to start in chapter three with this last little bit, because from my personal point of view, and I hope yours, when we're done with this, chapter three is the pivot point of the book. We have spent some time talking about chapters one and two, how both Andy and I are in awe of not just what God knew about Job, but how Job responded to the circumstances that
• 39:41
  Speaker A: were put before him.
• 39:42
  Speaker B: It's not always true that you look
• 39:45
  Speaker A: at these stories in scripture and the
• 39:48
  Speaker B: character of God matches the character of God's servants. In fact, I would say far too often it's the opposite of that. That's why we grow frustrated with the things they're doing. Job is going to, in chapter three,
• 40:01
  Speaker A: speak from a place of truth that very few people seldom reach.
• 40:09
  Speaker B: Chapter three is dark.
• 40:11
  Speaker A: It is full of despair.
• 40:13
  Speaker B: It has what I think to a lot of us would feel like doubt. But at the end of the day, what it really is, it's just brutal honesty.
• 40:22
  Speaker A: He's just brutally honest. The circumstances around are worse than he can possibly imagine. And there is a statement made that
• 40:34
  Speaker B: we're going to look at here in just a few moments.
• 40:36
  Speaker A: That is in. No, I would use this term without any exaggeration.
• 40:44
  Speaker B: Heartbreaking.
• 40:46
  Speaker A: So it says there in verse one that after this.
• 40:50
  Speaker B: Now, what is the this there?
• 40:51
  Speaker A: Well, it's several days, seven in fact, of just sitting with his friends in quiet after this, seven days of waiting after all that Job had lost, he opens his mouth.
• 41:02
  Speaker B: He cursed the day of his birth.
• 41:04
  Speaker A: So before we even hear what he said, it's worth seeing that these are not momentary reactions in the midst of suffering. This is after he had time to sit and think about it.
• 41:14
  Speaker B: Andy.
• 41:15
  Speaker A: And I'm a big believer that usually when you sit and think about things, you become more reasonable. That might not be the case here. He's.
• 41:23
  Speaker C: It's the hope.
• 41:25
  Speaker A: Yes. Yes, it's hope. But, like, I'm gonna be real honest with you, it's kind of hard to find the hope in the midst of this. A couple things are worth seeing. He starts in verse three. Let the day perish on which I was born. The night that said a man is conceived. Let that day be darkness. May God above not seek it, nor light shine upon it. Let gloom and deep darkness claim it. Let clouds dwell upon it and let the blackness of the day tear. Terrify it that night. Let thick darkness seize it. Let it not rejoice among the days of the year. Let it come into the number of the months. Behold, let that night be barren, and let no joyful cry enter it. Wow. Like you're shaking your head. And I'm sure that if there's someone listening to this and they've heard all of the virtue of Job that we have extolled in the first session, here's this now. And they're like, is this the same guy? Well, yeah, it's 100% the same guy. But this is a guy who has sat with his suffering, and this is a guy who has come to a simple foregone conclusion in his mind. All the good of my life was not worth the bad I've just experienced.
• 42:39
  Speaker C: He's still human.
• 42:40
  Speaker A: He is. And even the best of us, Andy, are limited in what we can see tomorrow and the next day. If.
• 42:51
  Speaker B: If Job sees the end of his story through his story, he doesn't arrive at the story's end that God had planned for him. There's something that has to be learned. There's growth that is both spiritual and philosophical. And there's growth about what he knows about God, and there's growth in his understanding of how this world works. From what we talked about earlier and what you're looking at now, his response seems appropriate. He believes bad things happen to people, have messed up, and look at what's messed up. You know, his life is messed up.
• 43:29
  Speaker C: Everything as far as he can see.
• 43:31
  Speaker B: Yes, in every direction. We talked about this before the show. He lost his wealth, he lost his health, he lost his relationships, and he lost his future, the things that we hold onto in this world. And he lost all of them. And so for him to see what lies in front of him, he says is not worth the greatness or the joy of what lied behind him.
• 43:59
  Speaker A: Now, for the man who was called
• 44:00
  Speaker B: greatest in all the east, who God paid a compliment to and said there's none like him, do you find it discouraging that he is human?
• 44:10
  Speaker C: I almost find it encouraging because he's like us. But the encouragement side of it is he does keep going and he does recover. And it gives us hope and knowledge that if we continue to do what we're supposed to do, it's going to work out. We may not understand it at the time, we may not understand it when it's over completely, but it's going to work out.
• 44:37
  Speaker B: Do you think we'd think differently of Job if the story ended in chapter three? Like if his last words were the words of chapter three, where he says, I am not at ease, nor am I quiet. I have no rest, but trouble comes. Do we think differently of him if those are the last words we hear him say?
• 44:56
  Speaker C: I would say we do.
• 44:57
  Speaker A: I think so.
• 44:58
  Speaker B: Now, how many times in our life have those been the last words?
• 45:04
  Speaker C: Too often.
• 45:05
  Speaker B: Too often.
• 45:06
  Speaker A: I am upset, I am angry.
• 45:11
  Speaker B: And I sat with it and I came to the conclusion it's unfair.
• 45:17
  Speaker A: Like that.
• 45:17
  Speaker B: That's.
• 45:18
  Speaker A: That's this.
• 45:19
  Speaker B: That feels like the standard operating procedure and the default settings of humanity. That's what it feels like.
• 45:26
  Speaker A: And I've been in funeral homes and I've been in hospital rooms and I've
• 45:34
  Speaker B: sat at tables across from people who are broken and hurting.
• 45:39
  Speaker A: And they say similar words to this.
• 45:41
  Speaker B: Oh, I wish I would have never.
• 45:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, of course you do. Because, you know, the choice you made to move there, take that job, commit that action, say, that thing has now cost you, and it's really hard to see through all the pain of what it's cost you, all the joy it was to get it in the first place. Job looks like us, sounds like us. Right here. And it, like you said, is encouraging to. To me as well, that he is not something impossible to be. He's just a human being who has suffered and lost. And I'm certain that I have said
• 46:30
  Speaker B: words similar to his. I'm certain of it. I don't remember the date and the time and the place, but I remember the occasions. And I'm certain there will come another day.
• 46:41
  Speaker A: I'll visit the doctor.
• 46:43
  Speaker B: It'll be my health or my wife's health. And I'll say things like, I can't rest until this is fixed. I want resolution. I want vindication. I want salvation. That feels like the. The emphasis behind this. Job wants salvation.
• 47:05
  Speaker A: He wants the wrongs to be righted.
• 47:09
  Speaker B: And his world says that he's a guilty man, but he knows deep down he's not. And for the next few chapters, you
• 47:15
  Speaker A: know what he's going to do?
• 47:16
  Speaker B: He's going to confess his innocence.
• 47:18
  Speaker A: And you know what his friends are going to do?
• 47:21
  Speaker B: They're going to condemn him for being guilty. Because just like Job's wife, all they see is a guilty man. Yet all God sees is a man like no one else. So for us today, I think a
• 47:36
  Speaker A: couple questions worth asking.
• 47:39
  Speaker B: First off, do we inadvertently look down on people who are suffering like Job's friends did?
• 47:46
  Speaker C: Probably more than we realize, subconsciously.
• 47:50
  Speaker B: I like the subconscious. Right. How many of us would be guilty of
• 47:57
  Speaker A: a.
• 48:00
  Speaker B: Of a quick judgment to a person who was homeless, sitting outside the place
• 48:06
  Speaker A: we were going to shop or the
• 48:08
  Speaker B: place we're going to eat, asking for a handout?
• 48:11
  Speaker C: I have been that person.
• 48:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm gonna confess to that, too. Like, I work a job. I have money to pay for this meal.
• 48:20
  Speaker A: I'm responsible. Why aren't you? And it's a whole lot easier, Andy.
• 48:25
  Speaker B: And I'm a little ashamed to say this, but it's a whole lot easier to just judge that person as a failure than it is to ask, hey,
• 48:35
  Speaker A: how can I help you succeed?
• 48:37
  Speaker C: That. And also remember, except for God's grace, it could be us. And that's been a shift I've had to make. I used to see the same people at the same locations regularly, and I don't understand their situation. I don't know. It's. Yep. But I shouldn't have probably judged the way I judged and should have remembered. God's grace is why I'm sitting here. Maybe that could be me if it hadn't have been for that, you know,
• 49:09
  Speaker B: if not for God's grace, the story could be the Story of Zophar or Bildad. You know, it could have. It could have been one of his friends also. But it was Job on purpose because of the quality and the character of who he was. I don't want this to be true, but I will stand up and say this. I would hope that if God was looking for another example of a job in this world, that he would use me. I would love to be thought of that highly. Not because it gets you an extra crown on your ear, an extra star on your crown in heaven, but because it gives you some insight into something you're not. You don't think you can handle it, but God knows you can. And if anyone's going to believe in you, let it be the one who made you, you know? And no one believed in Job in the story but God. Everyone thought he was going to fail but God.
• 50:05
  Speaker C: And even after all those questions that are going to come up in the next few chapters, he still didn't do what his wife told him to do.
• 50:12
  Speaker B: That's right. He never cursed God and died. He never felt the need to abandon God. He thought God was going to be his source of deliverance. You know, he. He cries out, vindicate me, God.
• 50:24
  Speaker A: You're the one who can do it.
• 50:26
  Speaker B: You can tell all of them they're wrong and I didn't do anything. I would tell you. I think he crosses the line a little bit when he's like, put me on trial, you know, and, and, and I've used this term. He almost kind of shakes his fist at God and says, I'm a better judge of character than you are. I don't see any intent in Job in trying to ever usurp God. I see nothing in the writing where Job is disrespectful to God.
• 50:51
  Speaker A: But I do see this moment where
• 50:52
  Speaker B: Job speaks out of turn. I understand better. And I really think that's part of the correction God gives him.
• 51:02
  Speaker A: Like, okay, you understand.
• 51:04
  Speaker B: Better answer these questions.
• 51:06
  Speaker C: You said your piece, now let me say mine.
• 51:09
  Speaker B: Yes, yes. And I remember reading. And once again, I'm struggling to recall the book that said it. But there's a line that I remember
• 51:18
  Speaker A: reading years ago where it says, if
• 51:21
  Speaker B: God did not strike down Job, when
• 51:23
  Speaker A: Job shook his fist at him, but was patient and kind and loving, he'll also be patient and kind and loving for you when you shake your fist at him. But then he follows it up with this great line, that does not mean
• 51:36
  Speaker B: you should get in the habit of shaking your fist at God.
• 51:40
  Speaker A: Like that author and like that kind of poor summary I made of what they said. And I will do my best to
• 51:46
  Speaker B: look it up and put an actual
• 51:49
  Speaker A: name and name and face to all of it in some show notes. I am grateful that God is patient with me when I shake my fist at Him. But I don't want to need that patience. I want to move beyond that. I want to be a person who doesn't shake my fist at God anymore. I want to be a person who says, though he slay me, I will trust in Him. I want to be that person. And I think I'm more that person today than I was yesterday. And for those that don't know, both of my parents have passed away. Both of them died actually before I was 40. I was not that person when my dad died, I was very angry and upset and I was masquerading as this person who had it all figured out. Because after all, I'm the preacher. And the preacher's not allowed to have feelings that are anything other than superhero of faith feelings. And so internally, when my dad died, I was a hot mess, just purely unstable. Externally. I just remained quiet. I don't have anything nice to say, so I'm not going to say anything at all. And my quiet kind of betrayed my thoughts.
• 53:07
  Speaker B: And the best thing that ever happened to me was people just loving on me and being like, it's okay to be hurting. And I remember a friend of mine wrote, and he sent me a text message, and he said, now's the best time in your life to read the book of Job. Just go read it, he said, without any study, without any deep contemplation, just read it. And I remember reading chapter three and saying, those sound a lot like my words right now. And I remember being angry and being like, God, I know better than you, this, this isn't right. And I remember when the, the voice from the whirlwind speaks, kind of feeling a little ashamed, a little embarrassed, like. And my friend who suggested I do that, I have over the years told him that you, you helped me through that. And it was a ten word text message. It was just a ten word text message. So I'm. I'm speaking from a point of view where I love chapter three, because my life, I've said those words. I have felt those words. And I am grateful that those are not the last words in my story. Also, that is so significant to me that the story does not end in your worst moment. There is salvation lying ahead for you. And maybe that won't be your best moment. But it's a moment that's beyond your worst.
• 54:42
  Speaker C: Well, we can relate it to the New Testament. Be angry and sin not. Of course, we can express it, but we can't make a habit of shaking our fist at God. Not that we should at all.
• 54:53
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 54:54
  Speaker C: But to be angry and sin not. The anger is not the problem. It's when we can't control and then what we do with it.
• 55:00
  Speaker B: You know, that would be a. If we were piggybacking on deeper studies now, we'd go to Psalms and we'd look at Psalm 22, and we'd talk about, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from me? Why will you not save me?
• 55:17
  Speaker A: Those are real feelings, honest feelings. I love the Psalms because they are mankind's most honest response to God. And because they're included in that. God gives them his seal of approval that these feelings are real feelings. I don't think that he has to say they're all equally good, to say they're all equally real. And for those of us who feel distant from God in moments like I think Job felt here, there's also the response later that in you, I will trust that you will guide me through this. I feel distant today. You are the one who brings me close tomorrow. That kind of sets the stage, really, for the end of the book. Before we jump there, do you want anything about three? Anything that really sticks out to you
• 56:11
  Speaker B: that we haven't mentioned?
• 56:13
  Speaker C: Not necessarily specifically three, but I think I did make a note that sometimes we can't logically understand why things are happening or understand how we're going to get through them. But we need to faithfully believe that it's happening for a reason and that we will get through them. Yeah. And this is obviously Job being human, as we all are, but it does give that encouragement that we can get through it if we get to the end of the book. Job didn't get to see the end of the book. He didn't at the time. He didn't know what was going to happen, and we don't either. But we have to faithfully believe that it's going to work like it's supposed to work.
• 56:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, it helps that there's no cheat like that. You can't see ahead to tomorrow as you're living today, because then the value of today would be lost on the outcome tomorrow. You know, I'm a soccer coach. You know that a lot of people listening to this will know this. I've Said it before, sometimes a loss is a good thing, but not always. Sometimes you lose and there's value attached to it. And you walk off the field and you hold your head high. Sometimes you lose and the value's gone because of how you played. And you're more the reason you lost than the team that beat you is the reason they won. And then there's times when you'd have been better to not even play the game. You know, the, the, the external defeated the internal, and all the stuff that surrounds the game is why you lost the game. So our experiences in life are similar. Like, we survive this life, but we don't always win, right? Lessons to be learned through loss are valuable. Sometimes, though, the lesson we don't learn is that we are the reason we lost. You know, the sin that separated us from God led to our separation from God and our alienation from God's people and the bad that came from that. And then there's other times when,
• 58:25
  Speaker A: while
• 58:25
  Speaker B: our life should be devoted to our belief, our faith, our hope in God, all the external of this world, the voices of Bildad, Zophar, our wife, the characters that are trying to lead us,
• 58:39
  Speaker A: they're the only ones we listen to. And so we don't actually hear God speak when he does. And so Job, when we get to 38 and the Lord answers, Job has already said everything he needs to say now, like God is wont to do when Job has had his peace.
• 58:57
  Speaker B: God says, all right, man, let me tell you what actually happened. And that's where we get to this.
• 59:03
  Speaker A: And there's some wonderful things. Chapter 38. After all the conversations, the Lord answers
• 59:10
  Speaker B: Job, he says, who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
• 59:17
  Speaker A: Dress for action. Dress. Gird up your loins is the actual, like Hebrew phrase for this, right? Like a man, I will question you. You make it known to me, what does he want made known? Will you answer? Right, Job, here once again, Andy. And to everyone listening takes our place in a conversation with God that we're having with him every day. God, why? Well, let me tell you why. And then he goes on and there's this wonderful imagery of things like, where were you when? Tell me, can you. Do you see what I've done? Can you do that now? In that moment, God is giving him the greatest non answer answer for Job says, why did these things happen? And God says, because I am in control. And that thought of I'm in control and I have been in control is what I want all of us to leave Today with a certainty and an assurance of that no matter how out of control your life feels, none of it is catching God by surprise. He is seen it. He has prepared for it. He has put you in a spot where you can survive it and thrive through it. Job was not randomly selected to be the person who this story was told about. And you and I are not randomly selected to be the person living our life either.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker C: For sure, we have a purpose.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker A: And I'm going to ask you this question, Andy, because you bring a great word. Do we always know what that purpose is?
• 1:01:01
  Speaker C: No. And we don't always understand it while we're supposed to be doing it. But God has a purpose for us.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker A: I would almost venture to say that it's almost impossible to know your purpose while you're living out your purpose.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker C: Going back to what you said about the soccer loss, some of the worst things in our life appear to be a loss at the moment.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker C: Ten years later, we look back and it was. It was a victory.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker B: It was.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker C: We made a decision or we didn't get something we thought we needed or wanted, and it turned out is exactly like it's supposed to be. But we need to celebrate those and be thankful just as much as we are for anything else.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker B: I just wish all of them did not hurt so bad when you lose them in the moment.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker C: Exactly.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker B: And I know that that seems so silly and insignificant, especially when you're considering all the things we've talked about today. But I've watched young boys walk off a soccer field, and I think their head is about as low as Job's probably was in Chapter three. I've seen people come in and tell me it'll be okay and sound just as stupid as Job's friends said, telling me it'll be okay. It's not going to be okay. We lost that game and now we are the three seed in the tournament. Like, sometimes it's just not. But it pales in comparison to real problems. But it gives you a glimpse into how to overcome real problems.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker C: It helps prepare for those real problems.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker B: It does.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker C: Especially for those boys going through it.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker B: Well, that's my hope. What about the coaches going through it? Because they're putting me through it this year. I'm telling you, this too shall pass. I've heard that and read that somewhere. My favorite coaching anecdote is, there's always another game, and very rarely is this your last game. In fact, there will only be one time when you coach or you put on the equipment and it's your last game, and you will play or coach more than likely dozens, if not hundreds of other games, but you very rarely know which is the last one. You're always playing for the next one. And I can tell you, as this season progresses, I will never plan for that to be our last game. I will always plan for the next one. And when that final whistle blows, it hits you pretty heavy. Season's done it. Like the history's written. This is who we were this year, and there's nothing left to change that. And Job three, he ends on a loss, on a debilitating loss. But that's not his last story and not his last game. He has another one, but he didn't know it. He didn't. And so that explains his frustration. And then God speaking explains his answer. Chapter 42. This is really. This is Job's final. I use this term. This is his final step to the plate or his final kick of the game. After all that God said and all this illustration he brought up about, you know, forming the world, bringing the stars,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker A: the storehouses of the snow, the taming
• 1:04:11
  Speaker B: of the animals, Job answers the Lord in 42. And outside of three, these are my
• 1:04:18
  Speaker A: favorite verses in the whole book.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker B: I know you can do all things and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge? That he's asking rhetorical. There. He's saying, I am. I uttered what I did not understand,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker A: things that were too wonderful for me,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker B: which I did not know.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker A: Hear, Lord, and I will speak. I will question you, and you make it known to me.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker B: I heard of you by the hearing
• 1:04:44
  Speaker A: of the ear, but now my eye sees you, and I despise myself, and I repent in dust and ashes. Job, who, like us, was overwhelmed by suffering and loss and wanted to be vindicated, found out that really what he
• 1:05:04
  Speaker B: needed was to be humiliated.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker A: He needed to be humble.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker B: And all of the good that had
• 1:05:10
  Speaker A: happened to him was not because of his faithfulness. It was because of God's faithfulness. And in a world where they didn't truly appreciate that, Job was still the best of all of them, and a man who feared God, shunned evil, was blameless and upright, still missed the point.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker B: And God now speaks and says, hey, dude.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker A: You know, he didn't say, hey, dude, but he says, hey, dude, I know what I'm doing. And if my plans are for you to be blessed or my plans are for you to suffer, I know what I'm doing. And the God who brings the blessings to you is the God who guides you through the loss of those blessings. And the God who brings life to you is the One who brings you through the loss of that life. And the God who created this world for you is the One who has created another one for you. And he brought you into this one. He'll guide you through it and bring you into the next one. All of that is in this. I heard of you, but now I see you. And the God who Job wanted to shake his fist at is no longer the one he shakes the fist at. It's the one who he says, okay, I'm sorry. I should have known better. But I didn't. And as we said early in the story, I'll say again, God does not strike him down because of his ignorance. He's not going to strike us down for us our ignorance in this world. He's going to give us patience. He's going to be patient with us in this world so that we may learn this lesson. Because all of us listening today have heard who God is, and we have very strong opinions and feelings about that. But do we really see who he is past all of our worldly shortcomings, our. Our frustrations with how things are? Can we see that the God who guides us through our suffering and loss is as equally valuable as the God who brings blessing to our doorstep?
• 1:07:12
  Speaker C: It's hard to see sometimes, but we have to.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker B: I don't remember praying for an opportunity to suffer.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker C: Do you never have?
• 1:07:21
  Speaker B: I don't think that that's on a lot of our prayer lists, but I could add it to the bulletin this week. Opportunities to suffer for the sake of the Lord. I think I probably would get a few question marks.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker C: Be a great chance to see who's reading the bulletin.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker B: See who's reading the bulletin. Hey, maybe I'll do it one day. But I need to do it when no one's expecting it. I remember learning when I was younger, and this feels fitting to this as we kind of bring everything to close. I believe the man's. I don't remember the man's name, and I wanted to call him Benedict Arnold, but I know that's not true. Benedict Arnold was the turncoat. There was a historian or a historical figure from the American Restoration, or not American Restoration, American Revolutionary War. That said something to the effect of, I regret that I have but one life to give to my country. Do you remember the name of that guy?
• 1:08:07
  Speaker C: Have no idea.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker B: I do not remember the name either. You know what's going to happen? I'm going to be driving home Today. And I'm going to be like, that's who that guy's name was. I love that there's a principle of that you could apply to this. I regret that I have but one life, but one life to give in my service to God, because I have not given that one life. So I don't know what that cost is. And I don't realize, because I haven't felt it, what the other side of giving that life would be like. And so, like Job and like so many other people, when I face uncertainty and I face loss and I face death, it frightens me. Not because of what waits for me on the other side, but because of what I have to go through on this side. Never had cancer and had to overcome it. Never been told by a doctor, hey, get your affairs in order. I've never faced my mortality, if that makes sense. And I'm very, very conscientious of. I want to face it in a way that gives honor to God. And if I am diagnosed with something that I stand up and say, that's what I've got. That's not who I am. And that if I have six weeks or I have 60 weeks or I have 60 years, that I'm still the same person. Job got caught off guard, kind of like we get caught off guard. Job got frustrated, kind of like we get frustrated. But at the end of Job's story, when he saw everything God had planned for him, he said, I see you, and that's my hope. And I hope, I hope that's where everyone can leave today, that in the midst of suffering, that our greatest awe is in the God who guides us through it. You know, you. You have said that you're in awe of Job's patience. Yeah, me too, with you. Amen, man. But the thing that amazes me the most is how patient God was with him.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker C: That's the. The key. And as we go forward, we're going to talk about that more.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, we are. The patience of God's servants is definitely the thing you're in awe the most of. And I'm not going to lie to you, I'm a little jealous because it lets us kind of see these people as us, because God is patient for us when we survive our suffering.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker A: God is patient with us when we build a house to save our family, we build a boat to save our family.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker B: We build anything to save our family. I have absolutely loved this today. Andy, thank you.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker A: Thank you for picking my favorite book
• 1:10:57
  Speaker B: of the Bible to be the first
• 1:10:58
  Speaker C: one we got to talk about my gift to you.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker B: You know, it's funny, we probably will spend more time over the course of however long we are given the opportunity
• 1:11:06
  Speaker A: to do this talking about Job because there are millions of lessons that could be learned. We did not even come close to tackling a tenth, a twentieth of the things that are said both about God in this world. But I hope we said some things that really help and stick to each and every one of you listening at home as we leave, I want to make sure that you remember a couple of things. First and foremost, that Job is a story full of wonder. And the wonder that we are most impressed with is how wonderful God is to his people. He helped Job survive. He brought Job through. And he will do the same for you. Because the God who humbles is also the God who forgives and restores. The wonder of Job's story is not just how awesome Job's example is, it's how great God is to all the Jobs who live today and follow his example. So we hope that you have enjoyed this time with us for the Holy Wonder podcast. My name is Neal Mathis. My co host, Andy Yant. We're grateful that you've taken the time to listen. Next week we'll be back with another lesson a lot like this, talking about moments in scripture that bring wonder and awe to us. Have a great day my friends. We hope to be with you soon. Bye.