Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / The backdoor approach to getting your CPG food brand stocked in Wholefoods, with Lil Bucks Founder Emily Griffith

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The backdoor approach to getting your CPG food brand stocked in Wholefoods, with Lil Bucks Founder Emily Griffith · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Emily Griffith for Female Startup Club. Hey everyone, Dune here. Today's episode is brought to you by Klaviyo and I'm chatting with Emily Griffith, founder of Lil Bucks.
• 0:21
  After discovering the potential of an underutilized superfood while living in Australia, Chicago native Emily Griffith founded Lil Bucks, the buckwheat company with a mission to offer innovative buckwheat snack and breakfast products while promoting a more nutritious diet and soil health in North America. We're chatting about how she got into whole foods, pitfalls to look out for when you're in the CPG space, and building your network.
• 0:47
  And if you've heard me mention our listener research interviews but haven't reached out yet, please do. I want to speak to as many people who are enjoying the show as possible, and I would be so honored to have a moment of your time to ask you a few quick questions. You can reach me on email at hello at femalestartupclub.com, and we can pop a time in the diary. But that's all for now. Let's jump into this episode. This is Emily for Female Startup Club.
• 1:15
  Emily, hi, hello, and welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat with you. Really cool podcast and can totally relate to a lot of the stories. Oh, thanks. Love that. Do you want to start by introducing yourself and what your business is?
• 1:35
  Yeah, so my name is Emily Griffith. I'm the founder and CEO of Lil Buck's. We're America's buckwheat brand. So we make different crunchy snacks and breakfast toppings from activated buckwheat seeds. I got this idea, which we can get into while I was living in Australia and kind of found widespread use of buckwheat there.
• 1:57
  And yeah, so right now we're still like Whole Foods in the Midwest, online, Amazon, both retail and online are huge parts of the business. And we're expanding quite a bit this year. So lots to share on this journey. Lots to share. It sounds like it. And I love that this starts in Australia, obviously being Australian. I love it. Let's go back to that time. What was the light bulb moment or what was the experience that got you thinking about buckwheat of all things?
• 2:28
  Yeah. So, I mean, I'm from Chicago originally. So similar to London, bit of a, we joke, there's a permacloud over Chicago, except for summertime shag. That's a good time. But, um, so always been California dreaming. And when I was in college, I studied abroad in Sydney and really felt like I was coming into my own there. And I was like, oh my gosh, I need to go back. So I got a
• 2:52
  job I got an agency ad agency to sponsor me in Australia and went back down under living my best life like trying to learn to surf like loving the food scene obsessed with just like the Aussie brekkies and like spreads and like going to the beach and like having every kind of dip and just I felt like it was I was so blown away by it because to you in Australian you're probably
• 3:22
  But to me, it was just so interesting because I felt like healthy food was so integrated with life. Like it wasn't just for like the health hippies or like the hardcore like LA, like weird potion drinking people. Like everybody's like, yeah, cool. This is beet dip or whatever. Like this openness to ingredients versus in the US, like we're like a little afraid of you think, especially in the Midwest where like a lot of the trends.
• 3:49
  It takes years to get to the Midwest. And then there's a lot of, they're a little scared to try things. Not everyone, obviously. But yeah, so I'm living in Australia, loving all that, loving the food culture, loving my Aussie brekkies. And I have a life-changing acai bowl there at this wonderful cafe in Bronte by the beach. What's it called? Bare Naked Bowls.
• 4:12
  Um, they, they started in Manly and now I think they have like a few locations, but highly recommend. Great. Shout out to them. Gonna check them out. I can't wait to go back and be like, you guys like it's fine. You start this business that is now like all over the U S.
• 4:27
  But so they use sprouted buckwheat, activated buckwheat is what I think Australians and UK people say. But so they use sprouted buckwheat as a grain free granola replacement on the bowl. And I just loved the crunch, big crunch fan. So
• 4:45
  first and foremost, blown away by like the texture of it. And then more so after the fact, like how I felt after eating it, I just felt amazing versus maybe having like a really sugary granola and acai bowl with like honey and a lot of, you know, you kind of get a sugar rush and might feel a little sluggish after. And I just felt like really satisfied and energized. So, so much so I went back to the cafe and I was like, what are these weird seeds?
• 5:09
  activated buckwheat I start seeing it just used as a hero ingredient and a lot of breakfast products there cafes putting it on like avo toast salads just even in desserts like there's some dessert chocolate company is putting it in desserts and I was like this is so interesting how is this not a thing and
• 5:29
  I was like, maybe it's a thing in New York and LA just hasn't made its way to the Midwest. But turns out Americans were missing out on this crunchy superfood. So I was like, it kind of started as a simple, I was a graphic designer and I was working in an ad agency. So I had marketing experience. I was like, oh, how hard could it be? I'll just launch this brand and, you know, start selling buckwheat. Oh my God. I love it. I just want to focus more on this kind of light bulb moment because I'm,
• 5:57
  You know, I see things all the time that I'm like, wow, this is amazing. Love it. Cool. High five. Done. You know what I mean? Like, how do you actually think I'm actually going to turn this into a brand? I love it so much that this is a vibe. And like, how did you go about validating the idea and sort of thinking it through to building it into a business?
• 6:19
  Yeah, it is funny because I've actually had a lot of people be like, Oh, like, did you always think you're going to be an entrepreneur? Like, were you looking for an idea? And this was just like the one and I was like, I wasn't, that wasn't the case. Like looking back and looking at my personality and how I work, it makes a lot of sense that I fell into entrepreneurship, but I was by no means looking for an idea. I was not feeling like I fit in with the traditional ad agency model. And this was my second agency in Sydney.
• 6:50
  I mean, I had great friends there and learned a lot, but I just really did not feel like my career, it was jiving with me. So I was struggling in that way. But then that still, you know, I still, there wasn't really that linear jump from, oh, I'm going to go from ad agencies to like buckwheat business. But it really was just a genuine obsession with the sprouted buckwheat seeds. Like growing up, I always loved healthy replacements to like unhealthy things or, you know, like
• 7:17
  paleo pancakes or even like acai bowls I love because you can literally, if you make them right, they could taste like ice cream. So I just love that. So I think, I mean, I'm not kidding. I didn't just think of the good idea. I started eating sprouted buckwheat every day. So I was buying it at the shop, going through like a pound bag a week. And then once I was kind of like, this habit is getting...
• 7:38
  a little expensive. I started learning how to make it at home. I was like, oh, this isn't that hard. Like you just sprout some seeds and dehydrate them. And I didn't have a dehydrator. So I was like rigging our oven to make it work. And then it really started like genuine kitchen exploration. I started making like, oh, if you can have a flavored granola, like a chocolate granola, then why can't you have a chocolate buckwheat seeds?
• 8:02
  just started messing around with it. And then at the time, just kind of like, this isn't that hard. And I should try to, you know, I'm a graphic designer, I could make a cool logo, like, let's just start sharing this with Americans. And I think it also came from a place of just loving my experience in Australia and not really being ready to leave. But when I quit the agency job, I did need to leave because I was on a sponsored visa. So it was like a way for me to bring some of that inspiration from Australia.
• 8:29
  the Australian food culture back to the US with me, like via this buckwheat idea. But yeah, I feel like the idea gods just like, bestowed this idea on me and I became obsessed. And it really like was never in question whether or not I would do it. It was always worst case. It fails, but I can't not do this. Like,
• 8:54
  Buckwheat will be the thing in the US and either I'm going to be a part of it or I'm going to attempt to be a part of it. You know, totally. Whether it works or not, we'll see. You followed the buckwheat crumbs. Yes. You made your own pathway. You were following the trail. Literally. What were the people around you saying that were like trying the buckwheat that you were making at home and, you know, your friends and your family? What was the vibe? I mean, I think people are a little...
• 9:22
  confused at first. They're like, I mean, like, well, the Australians are just kind of like, okay, like we have this, like, you know, that's cool. And then my American friends actually moved back to the US and was doing some tests while we were waiting to move in together. I was like, living at my boyfriend's place with his two other roommates. And I'm like, hey, guys, like doing buckwheat tests in their kitchen. So they probably loved that.
• 9:47
  But they were there for the ground shattering moments of Little Buck's creation. But yeah, I mean, they were like, oh, this is good. But, you know, I think people didn't really think anything of it. Like they're kind of like, Emily's on this buckwheat thing. She's on this buckwheat thing. Like whatever, you know, it's so foreign and not that buckwheat's a foreign food because actually our buckwheat that we get is grown in the U.S. and.
• 10:09
  you know, now it's kind of becoming more widely understood, partially thanks to us, I think. But, um, you know, they're just kind of like Emily's moved back from Australia. She's going down this buckwheat rabbit hole, who knows what it is. Maybe it's going to be a cute like farmer's market granola brand, which is great. But I don't think they really saw what I was seeing in my mind. I was like, this is going to be in every pantry in America. Like, got it, got it. You know, it took a while and I could have to like learn how to talk about the products and
• 10:38
  explain it properly. So like when I started sharing, you know, my early Will Bucks recipes, I'd be like, Hey, do you want to try my gluten-free, grain-free, high protein, high fiber, like superfood, whatever. And people are like, that sounds gross. Cause how can something be that healthy? Then it doesn't taste good. So then when I started leading with like, Oh, try this crunchy, delicious thing, you can put in your yogurt smoothies, people like, okay. And then you're like, Oh, also it's really healthy. So I just kind of had to learn
• 11:07
  how to talk about it as well. I had a lot to learn, especially being a new entrepreneur. I was 25, I think, when I moved back to the US. So new to the industry, new to trying to start a random food business that seemed random at the time. So...
• 11:24
  Really interesting insight on the, you know, the importance of language when you're trying to sell the product and tapping into consumer behavior and what consumers actually want and what their, you know, struggles and pain points are versus what you think they want and what you think you should be saying.
• 11:40
  Oh, that's a classic and like such a good lesson for, I mean, obviously in consumer packaged goods, because you're literally asking someone to basically not buy something else and instead buy your product. So that communication and that messaging
• 11:55
  But in anything, obviously, is so important. I think copywriting, like I've taken some courses on, or like I've just read building a story brand. And I think whether it's service-based or product-based business, yeah, like messaging it and putting it away to make it something people actually want rather than forcing something on them. Because I'm like, trust me, like it's so tasty and so good for you and you're gonna feel amazing. Like you need to like speak to them in their language and like pull out why...
• 12:23
  they want to try it. But I even use like trends.google.com to look up, like you can look up different, even like for flavor research, I'll look up like what people in the US are more interested in right now. And even early on, I was calling, you know, we're like little bucks activated buckwheat, but that's actually turns out is more of a, activated is a more common term in Australia and the UK. And in the US, we say sprouted.
• 12:53
  but it like kind of means the same thing. So early on, I did a switch. It was very early, so it wasn't a big deal, but hadn't ordered too many activated buckwheat stickers yet. But yeah, it was good to like, I mean, just doing that simple research, I was like, oh.
• 13:07
  people are searching for this way more. Yeah. That's super fascinating. Yeah. Crazy. So I want to go back a little bit to actually how you started the business. What were the key steps to getting this off the ground in terms of manufacturing the product and getting that product or, you know, getting your first order or whether you made it at home and how you sort of started putting that out there into the world? Yeah. So yeah.
• 13:32
  I think one of the biggest things for me, I moved back to the US and started just playing around with the recipes. Of course, I already have the brand ready because I was a designer and I'm very brand forward and had a lot, again, like you said, to do in the background of like manufacturing, getting packaging, like how do we finance this, all these things. And I'm very much a learning by doing person and did not have startup experience. So from the perspective of like, okay, we have our idea and our business plan and now we're gonna go raise
• 14:02
  half a million dollars to like build out a team and like do that. Like I did not know anything about that world and I'm very much a learning by doing person. So I was like, I'll just,
• 14:13
  I freelanced. I had my own marketing consultancy. When I moved back to the US, I'd quit the job in Australia. So I was using... And that was going very, very well. And I was using that money to bootstrap little bucks. So using any profits from that besides paying my rent to then just buy mass buckwheat, buy the packaging and all that. So from that perspective, that's the route I went with financing. But then obviously, there was a ton to learn on the manufacturing side. And I think
• 14:42
  The best thing for me was meeting on other entrepreneurs in this space. So you just learn absurd amounts from people in your industry. And especially if you're going into something, I mean, I'm sure for someone with you, like, you know, so much about podcasting that would just like, you could have a 10 minute conversation with someone who's just trying to learn about it and blow their mind. And like, that's me with the food industry now.
• 15:07
  So I went to a panel where there were like four people, major Chicago food entrepreneurs that have done really well. And so obviously I had to talk to them after and got introduced to an organization in Chicago called The Hatchery, which is a nonprofit that helps food businesses in Chicago grow. So basically, they're just trying to provide resources. Like they literally had a starting a food business 101 class. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is the perfect class for me.
• 15:36
  And then, you know, started getting into the art courses, like getting the proper licensing to produce in a commercial kitchen. Because we didn't start in manufacturing. Like I started making the product, which is a whole other thing because it's very time consuming to be freelancing full time and trying to sell the little bucks and make the little bucks at night was really intense. But, um...
• 15:58
  Yeah, just kept like, every step of the way, like, okay, now I need to learn what the requirements are for packaging, how do I get a barcode, you know, if they didn't have a resource for it, they would introduce me to someone who did. So it was really just networking, and talking to as many entrepreneurs and industry folks as I can, like in Chicago, there's a lot of big food businesses as well. So getting connected to like,
• 16:25
  I think Bell Brands, their US headquarters is in Chicago. So even just... I worked with a packaging specialist for like six months who... She was just doing it for fun, but we were testing different compostable bags and testing the shelf life and whether it would preserve our products. So really, networking and talking to other entrepreneurs was probably like... It was very time consuming. And I gave out a lot of free little bucks because all you can give in return sometimes. But...
• 16:53
  I think the most crucial thing I did to get to where we are and learn about the industry as fast as possible, because there's so many potential pitfalls you can run into. So having someone be like, hey, quick note, don't do that. Okay, like you could avoid months of pain. Oh, gosh, like even I mean, this one's like top of my mind, just because like we recently and it's not like you're going to avoid all pitfalls. And I think you have to have a lot of grace with yourself for that.
• 17:22
  For example, we just started working with... There's two really big natural food distributors in the US that service a lot of the big Whole Foods and big grocery chains like that. And getting into them is kind of key to growth in retail, especially when you're starting out. And we just launched with one of them and we opted into this program that...
• 17:44
  you know, they make it seem like it's really great for emerging brands and all this stuff. But really, like they're a huge, huge food distributor. There's a lot of challenges with working with them. And basically, the program, long story short, not good for emerging brand, like it was very expensive and just like, didn't net the, you know, it's supposed to like get us in front of all these new accounts and all this stuff. And basically, it just like did not do that. And like, if anything, it just costs money down the drain. And if I had talked to someone who
• 18:14
  had experience in distribution and they could have looked at them like that's not a good idea like this is why like this distributor this is how they're structured and like this is just them like using it to get you into a funnel to like make more money off you and I'd be like oh well but you know that's one example of us falling for you know a pitfall and we're gonna be fine it's not like the end of the world but I think the more you talk to people the more you
• 18:44
  And there's been plenty of times where like, I was about to go gung ho on something. And then someone's like,
• 18:50
  you might want to rethink that or just be careful because of X, Y, Z. And then, you know, you, it just helps form the strategy. Really key. Yeah, absolutely. I'm even going through that kind of stuff now where I always look to people who are a few steps ahead of me, or even a lot of steps ahead of me, but they'll take the time to talk to me to figure out what's going on with the journey of the podcast and what the product offering looks like and all that kind of thing. So yeah.
• 19:15
  Yeah, I totally get it. It's definitely key to have those people who are ahead of you who have been there, done that and can give you the kind of key learnings along the way for sure. I want to switch to talking about when you launched the product and how you actually started selling it and getting in front of customers.
• 19:34
  Yeah, so we launched in April of 2018. Our birthday is actually coming up, third birthday. Happy birthday. Which is wild. I launched it at a fitness festival in Chicago. And of course, April 28th,
• 19:49
  Could go either way. It could have been an 80 degree day, but that day happened to be 30 degrees of horizontal winds, which I guess I'm using Fahrenheit. So it was really cold. Got it. Pretty sure actually 30 is like negative one Celsius. So not warm. No.
• 20:04
  Oh my God, that's like extra cold. Yeah. Oh, well, Chicago. And it's so extreme. And it's an outdoor fitness festival. So literally like I negotiated with this climbing gym in Chicago. They were putting it on and all these like local...
• 20:21
  you know, fitness studios and gyms were participating and it was an outdoor workout day. And there was going to be like a 30 minute session from like a bar class and a bootcamp and the climbing people and yoga and all these like health food things. I'm like, this is perfect for me to like have a tent. And I negotiated like normally the brand sponsoring. I mean, it's at least a $1,500, $2,000 sponsorship. And I was like, can I just maybe get a little
• 20:52
  And so I'm setting up this like janky tent while everyone else has like nice tents. Like Clif Bar was there. They're like huge. And my mom was supposed to come into town to help me. And that morning I'm like, it's freezing. Like, don't even come. It's going to be stupid. No one's going to show up. And turns out people are very dedicated to the workouts and they came out on this like
• 21:13
  freezing cold day, I'd made a crunchy, like vegan fudge with the little box. So it was kind of showing a way that they're used. And the samples spread around the whole festival and everyone's coming up and we sold out of our bags that day and actually got into our first little store on the spot. The owner of one of my favorite juice bars walked up and she was like, Oh, these are great. Like I own this juice bar. We'll sell them. And I'm like, cool. How do I sell to you?
• 21:43
  What does that mean? Yeah. So there's a lot of, you know, just kind of learning by doing. Like, I remember the first person coming up and like, okay, like, this is almost like awkward in my mind because I'm totally faking it. And like, this is my product and this is how I'm going to talk about it. And then like, I mean, just after one person came up, then you just all of a sudden, you
• 22:03
  you get in a groove and you do it. It's really just that Nike phrase, just do it. And yeah, of course, those things, you know, visual marketing graphic designer had the website ready. So where, you know, it was a little shaky on like, how do I have a tent? And like, how am I going to do this festival?
• 22:20
  stayed up till three in the morning the night before perfecting our website, because I thought that everything needs to be perfect. And that was a lesson that not everything needs to be perfect. And it never will be an entrepreneurship. So let go of that idea. But I stayed up before this festival, perfecting the website, launched it on Instagram, like obviously at the festival. And then I launched it on my personal Instagram and was just like, Hey, everyone, I launched this buckwheat brand
• 22:46
  And all of a sudden got like 50 orders in mostly from friends and family. But then it was nice because people from the festival could like see, you know, try us and start ordering on the website. And I was like, cool, I got 50 orders. And then I was like, oh, now I have to ship them. And so I'm like digging through my apartment buildings, recycling, taking out like people's used Amazon boxes and using those to ship out the products. I just like didn't have any of the logistics on the back end.
• 23:15
  Like when I say learn by doing, like I learned in the moment, there's a lot more pain that way. I think by the lack of planning, especially on the logistics end of things, I joke about that a lot. But I talked to a lot of early stage entrepreneurs now and I'm like, now let's just like go through the transaction. Are you ready end to end? Like what holes do you need to fill?
• 23:34
  Like, do you have shipping set up? Do you have boxes? Do you have a printer? I had to go out and buy a printer and like print labels. And so just helping people think about the full picture. Cause I think, you know, this could be, I was naive, young, I'm so marketing minded. Even now I still like can fall into that trap of just wanting to think about marketing, but thinking about the business as a whole and what holes you need to fill, whether it's an ops or finance, um,
• 23:59
  So I think that's also goes back to like surrounding yourself with entrepreneurs and other people in the industry, especially people that compliment your skills. So I even brought on our first advisor I brought on. He has huge experience in finance and ops and we're pretty much the opposite. So he's been really helpful because he points out a lot of things that he's like, you're not thinking about this. And I'm like, oh my gosh. You're like, yep. Never thought about it. Never thought about it. Never. Yeah.
• 24:27
  You have since grown into hundreds of retailers. You're doing really well D2C. What has that scaling looked like? Like how did your marketing evolve to get there? Like how did you get from A to B? So I think we did have kind of that big break where we needed to
• 24:44
  It was almost like that first year, I was very much doing like farmers markets and kind of learning and still talking to people. And I think especially for having a new product to the US, like people don't know what sprouted buckwheat is. Even now that we're bigger, it's still really new to a majority of the population. You know, I had to learn how to talk about it and like what our packaging should look like and servings and flavoring. But then, yeah, I got a chance to pitch to Whole Foods and they buy by region.
• 25:14
  I really weasel into, it was kind of like the stars aligned. Like, it's kind of crazy that I got a meeting with them, but I got a meeting with them. And they ended up taking on our product lines into the entire Midwest region, which was 51 stores. So we're like, you know, cool. That's like crazy. High five. How do we do this? Yeah, exactly. I was like, got the call, probably one of the most exciting calls we'll get because that was our first, you know, that's like a big break. And so I'm like, wow, so excited. Did a little dance.
• 25:44
  And I was like, okay, we need to like get manufacturing, real packaging, organic certification, raise money. Like we've got basically five months to make it happen because that's when the Whole Foods thing was going to launch.
• 25:58
  which was March 2020 last year, right when lockdown began. So that was another journey. But yeah, so then I kind of, since I finally had something like Whole Foods on board that like validated my idea and showed that it was going somewhere, like it was going onto the Whole Foods shelves,
• 26:16
  that kind of gave me a little more leverage to talk to higher up people and be like, get connected further with like fundraising, you know, operations, manufacturing, it even gives me leverage with the manufacturers. Cause it's not just like, Hey, I'm this chick with craft bags and stickers on the bags. And I sell it at markets and online, which is great. And you can make that a very legit business, but it was more challenging to get people to take me seriously, especially as a young woman.
• 26:43
  But then when I'm like, hey, I got Whole Foods, like, you know, people are listening. So that kind of helped me start working with a really amazing manufacturer that was able to meet the demands. And then while we still work with them now, I use this launch as a catalyst to raise a small friends and family round of financing. I, you know, started building out a huge brand ambassador team. So basically my plan was,
• 27:11
  let's repeat what I did in Chicago with farmer's markets and just getting out there and sampling and giving out samples and letting people try the crunch. And then, you know, done deal. Cause no one's had a crunch like this before. If you like crunch, if you eat, you know, yogurt, oatmeal, smoothies, whatever, you're going to be in heaven.
• 27:31
  So that was the plan was training up all these brand ambassadors and like 15 cities across the Midwest to start supporting these Whole Foods and do samplings at yoga studios and fitness studios and all that. And then we launched in the Whole Foods in March, you know, the pandemic. And that's when it was really started rolling through the US. So it was just
• 27:53
  We got like a week of demos, which are samplings in the stores in. And then obviously those shut down. It was really intense. So really just had to pivot everything about marketing to mostly online. And fortunately, I do have a digital marketing background, but I hadn't really put a lot of like effort into it just because Whole Foods was so all consuming. And I'm like, this is our big chance to make it in retail.
• 28:23
  obviously e-commerce blew up quite a bit in the past year, but, um, with people having to stay home and ordering online, but it showed me that, you know, our revenue last year was 50% e-commerce, 50% retail. So like whole foods and stuff. So we're trying to grow both hand in hand and have an omni-channel presence because you never know, like if,
• 28:48
  a lot of food businesses, half their business was in food service. So that being like juice bars or whatever. And then all of a sudden, everything shuts down and 50% of your business is like not in operation. So yeah, there was a lot of really good learning lessons. I feel like the pandemic was like, that's kind of when we really started expanding widely and getting bigger and finally had a little bit of funding. And then it was also probably the most challenging time. So it was like the ultimate boot camp, like,
• 29:18
  8,000 million lessons learned. But fortunately we made it through. 8,000 million. Yeah, like, is that a number? Who knows? But yeah, fortunately, you know, now we're in about 250 stores and we're launching a few more bigger chains in the next couple of months. So, you know, we made it through Knucklewood. That's amazing. Yeah. Love that for you. Love that for you. Love that for Americans. How did you get the meeting with the Whole Foods buyer?
• 29:47
  Um, so I actually just went to go back to networking. I feel like you just gotta like weasel around, you know, like, and have no shame. Like, who cares? You can ask, he's like, hey, can you introduce me to that person? No. Or worst case, you get ignored.
• 30:01
  That's kind of another thing that I learned within sales and networking is like, and I think especially as women, we're afraid to ask or we're like afraid to be a burden. And not saying that I'm totally like over this. Like sometimes I still have to push myself and be like, Emily, what's the worst thing that happened? Just ask or just go and you'll be surprised. And so I went to Expo West, which is like the huge natural products trade show. I think it's the biggest natural products trade show, potentially in the world. People come from all over the world for it.
• 30:31
  And so I was just walking the floor. I literally just got my cute little single serve, little buck samples and was handing them out of my backpack to people. So that was kind of me introducing it to the wider industry in my weird way. And while I was there, a friend introduced, she was like, oh, I used to work with this guy who was a Whole Foods buyer and he was a Whole Foods corporate beverage buyer. So he's buying beverages on the national level. So not my category or my region,
• 31:00
  you know, at all. And he was probably so annoyed, but she's like, I'm going to text you guys in a group text and introduce you. And he's probably like, like Whole Foods buyers, like turn around their badges at the fest, these trade shows. Cause they're so like, everyone's obsessed with talking to them. And so he's probably like, so annoyed, like everyone's trying to meet with me. Like, I don't want to meet with your like,
• 31:21
  weird friend. So he's like, I'll meet with you for 10 minutes. I'm going to sample like the new collagen waters at vital proteins, like meet me outside of this booth and we'll like talk. And I could tell he was kind of like, but then like, you know, like I'm a normal person, you know, we had a great chat.
• 31:38
  Ended up hanging out for like half an hour, walking around, sipping our collagen waters, as one does. And then I sent him products and I believe what happened. I mean, obviously, I was like barking up Whole Foods tree in every other direction. Like I submitted for their review process, of course, and like was following up by email and, you know, kind of.
• 31:59
  didn't break into their office, but was let into their office after hours and like dropped off more samples. I didn't break in, but like, I may have been in there when I shouldn't have been. Yeah, exactly. Like I was like, there was not a break in, but I was just going to drop off some, you know, care packages and...
• 32:19
  like the cleaner let me in. So, you know, I was trying all the, like instead of selling Whole Foods, you gotta put on a full court press. But I think what ultimately happened, I think it was the networking that did it because, you know, I'm doing all these crazy things. And I think the simple thing that got us the meeting was,
• 32:35
  this beverage buyer, George, put it on the corporate breakfast buyer's desk and was like, hey, I met this like buckwheat chick and it looks like maybe she's actually up to something. And they sent it down to the Midwest region and were like, you should check out this buckwheat thing. And boom. And boom. Yeah. Holy goodness. 51 stores. That's wild.
• 32:55
  Yeah. Wowza. Love that for you. It was exciting. That was a good break and enter. Yeah. Just do a little breaking and entering, little just weaseling around, annoying people. Oh, I love it. That's so cool. What does the next, say, 12 months look like for you? What are you able to shout about and jump on about?
• 33:19
  Yeah. So I think the next 12 months are going to be really crucial in the future of Wilbucks. I'm really excited about it. I'm kind of having this mindset shift from creating the thing to growing the thing. So everything that we've talked about has really been me and my idea and my creation story and like selling it at farmer's market. It's been so personal. I mean,
• 33:45
  I'm the person that made this happen. But now we're at a point where we're like, we're in distribution and multiple regions. We're doing really well and growing quickly. There's just like a lot, you know, going on on Amazon and our website and with Whole Foods and other retailers. So we're getting into like more of the big leagues. And now I'm really transitioning to I just brought on my first corporate teammate last week and another one starting in two weeks. So I'm like,
• 34:10
  you know, all of a sudden I used to be like, I don't need to read about leadership. And now I'm like obsessed with reading about leadership and team building and, you know, enabling others to go out and go forth and, you know, kind of fulfill their best skill sets on behalf of little books. So yeah.
• 34:28
  It's interesting because I kind of have to hand off some of that like control and, you know, get things out of my head, like so much of the brand and like the ideas and all this historical knowledge is in my brain. So it's been like putting a lot of processes in place. It's not like we're by any means a big corporation where there's like tons of processes and approvals and this and that. Like, you know, it's still very much a startup, but it's really exciting to take that step, get on project management software, bring on a little...
• 34:57
  put a village behind low bucks and we'll be doing a lot more. Just basically we're on these channels. We're established. We have two product lines now. So it's really just growing within those channels and there's a lot of growth to be had. So just taking it to the next level.
• 35:14
  Sounds super exciting and definitely, you know, that new skill set of learning how to be a leader and lead the team and sort of transition out of solo entrepreneur into CEO and leader and all the things. Sounds super fun. Yeah, it's definitely a good challenge and nothing has been more interesting. Nothing has been more challenging, but nothing has been more interesting. I'm really grateful to
• 35:43
  you know, open the computer every day, even in some days really suck. It's always interesting. That's true. No days ever the same. No. What advice do you have for women who have a big idea and want to start their own business? My advice would be, I mean, I keep going back to this community is essential to growing any type of business. And I've talked about it a lot in this
• 36:13
  I really got off the ground from learning how to start the business to ultimately getting in Whole Foods. And it's not really networking just to like, I want to know these people just in case they can help me one day. But genuinely learning from people like you said that are maybe a step or two ahead of you that have been there before. Like try to talk to people that are in the position you want to be in a year, five years from now and see what gaps you need to fill to get there.
• 36:41
  So not only the community and just kind of surrounding yourself with people that, you know, admire and want to follow their path or follow a similar path. But then also in general, like making sure you have a good community of, you know, is it friends, family, like your support circle? Because it can be really hard. And even building, just connecting with other entrepreneurs. I think the first year I was going at it alone and bootstrapping everything.
• 37:09
  It was just really intense. And by the end of it, I felt a little overwhelmed and alone. And then when I started talking to other entrepreneurs and realizing they felt the same, we actually started like a little Chicago female food finders group. And we'd get together and do happy hours, preview and then like, of course. But even now we start like a little group text. And it's just great to connect to people that understand what you're going through. I mean, that just really unlocked my...
• 37:36
  potential, I think, by taking that burden of just going through it alone off myself and just having community, both in business and outside of business, has been huge. Yeah, the support network, for sure. Love that. Thanks.
• 37:53
  We are up to the six quick questions part of the episode. I ask every woman on the show the same questions. Some of it might've already come up, but we're going to go through it anyway. Yes. So question number one is what's your why? Why do you do what you do? My why just comes down to, I want to share this literally life-changing, crunch-tastic buckwheat experience with other people. It made me, you know,
• 38:20
  taste good, made me feel great. And I literally always just go back to that moment that I had where I was so excited to discover something that could taste so good and make me feel so great that I'm like, I need to share this with other people. Love it. Question number two is what do you think has been the number one marketing moment that's happened in your business? Ooh, I think that the number one marketing moment...
• 38:48
  I think has been getting into bon appetit and healthy-ish. So we've had some really good PR and I think that's helped us not only with e-commerce, but general brand awareness. Marketing is all about touch points and a touch point, you know, getting at least three,
• 39:06
  if not six different touch points before someone actually makes a purchase. And then with something like Buckwheat where people don't know what it is or how to eat it, we really needed that exposure and education. So PR hits have been big, but that Bon Appetit hit was... We've been working hard on it. I work with the PR team as well now, but it really generated a lot of new customers and new emails and great SEO, all the things. It really took our e-commerce to another level.
• 39:36
  It was exciting. Wow. Are you able to share kind of how big that push was? Like how many customers did you get or how much revenue does it drive to get one of those key pieces of press that really hit the nail on the head? Yeah. I mean, with something like that, I'm trying to think of the actual number, but it was around like 500 orders in a day. And that's like not something we were used to.
• 40:06
  Wow. I mean, even if it's a good day, if you can get like, depending on your average order size, like 10, 50 order, 5, 10, 50 orders, depending on how big your business is, obviously. So getting smacked with like a massive traffic increase and then orders coming in that night and throughout the next day, it was overwhelming, but really kind of amazing. So we want to make sure we capitalize on that, got them into email marketing funnels and kept communicating with them to, you know, kind of welcome them on this buckwheat journey.
• 40:36
  Yeah, so that was huge. And yeah, I've also heard with getting into... So actually, what's been an interesting follow-up is that once you're in it, trying to make those pieces work the most for us. So a lot of brands will see advertising as seen in Bon Appetit. We're not advertising right now, but we are going to start soon. And we would advertise like, oh my God, we're just in Bon Appetit. Even though it was like six months ago, like consumers don't... Like a lot of people might have missed it. So you kind of can milk that...
• 41:05
  PR piece for what it's worth. And then also getting into Bon Appetit's healthy-ish newsletter, which has happened like two or three times where they recirculate the piece in their newsletter. And then we'll all of a sudden get like, you know, 30, 40 orders just out of nowhere. So I think those pieces where you think about not just, you know,
• 41:27
  And it's interesting which ones work, which ones don't. And it's kind of a test and learn thing. Like, you know, we've gotten into Forbes a few times, which is obviously a great, you know, publication and great thing to get into. We don't really see that one drive as much sales per se.
• 41:44
  obviously there's still value in getting into it, but it's kind of testing and learning, finding these ones that share it again and again, you'd be kind of surprised. Like we were on a local Chicago TV segment once and that also huge with orders. And I think really good for our local retail presence in Chicago. So it's finding ones you can milk a lot of,
• 42:03
  shares and views. Absolutely. And I think the Bon Appetit thing, it's like the people who are reading and browsing Bon Appetit are foodies, they're food lovers. They want to try. They want, yeah, they're hungry. Whereas maybe the people who are reading Forbes are other entrepreneurs and they're looking at you as the female founder and the head of the business versus like, Oh, what's this new product that I'm really interested in buying right now? So it's interesting to make those.
• 42:29
  Exactly. It's kind of like a reader intent. So exactly. Yeah, totally. Love that. Both are great, but like different, like depending on your goals. And when you're early, you're just trying to get sales. So obviously, you know, excited about both. Both are great, but you know, bon appétit. That's a good one. That's a good one. Question number three is, where do you hang out to get smarter? What are you reading or listening to or subscribing to
• 42:58
  Oh, I love that. My favorite thing to listen to to get smarter is NPR, how I built this, especially if I've had a bad day. You know, sometimes you're going to get bad news or like manufacturing runs are delayed or like, you know, fundraising rounds falling through, like all these things that you hear happen to other entrepreneurs, like they might happen to you as hard as you try to avoid them.
• 43:21
  and I'll just go on a run and listen to one of those. And you just hear these crazy stories of people persevering through the most ridiculous stuff or like getting so crafty and like doing these crazy things to make their business come to life. And you relate to all those stories. Cause you're like, yeah, Oh my gosh. Like,
• 43:38
  That reminds me of when I'm trying to make our product in our shared kitchen at midnight and like spilling buckwheat everywhere. Or when you're weaseling into after hours Whole Foods offices. Yeah, you're like breaking into Whole Foods. I'm like, I can really relate to these ridiculous stories and inspire me endlessly. Like no matter the industry, obviously the food one is always exciting for me. I can especially relate to that. But that's one of my favorite. And I mean, even I love Tim Ferriss.
• 44:07
  you know, like just figuring out that one's interesting because it's not as much traditional entrepreneurs and people that have like learned a lot of digital entrepreneurs or athletes and they learn how to like really optimize their life. So I think I learned it's kind of good for me to get out of like direct business podcast stuff, even though they're super inspiring and I learn a lot, but just kind of also helping me and
• 44:31
  how I can live my best life. That's going to make me be a better, like I'm going to think smarter. I'm going to be a better leader. And I'm obviously have a huge impact on the company's trajectory. So if I'm in a good place, then be in a good place. So true. Question number four is how do you win the day? What are your AM or PM rituals and habits that keep you feeling happy and successful and motivated?
• 44:59
  Um, yeah, actually, my friend had this idea that I just started doing like a few months ago, but we have wellness checklist. So it's 10 things. And the point is to try to get to 80% of them and not getting mad at yourself for
• 45:16
  Because, you know, a lot of people, especially entrepreneurs that might be formerly, you know, high achievers or perfectionists, you're like, oh, I only got to nine out of 10 things like I suck. But making the bar 80 percent. So you're trying to get to eight out of 10 of those wellness things and maybe simple things. You're like, so some of mine are making the bed and movement. That's a big one for me. So whether it's it could just be going on a long walk, but.
• 45:45
  or like going for a surf in San Diego right now. So not sleeping in Chicago. So something like that. Another one for me that, so there's obvious ones like,
• 45:53
  It could be like cooking the meal, drinking, you know, hitting your water goal for the day, take your vitamins, super simple things to help you get in the habit. Now I'm actually taking my vitamins every day. So I think I'm going to switch it out with something new. But one of mine on the checklist, for example, is more like practice my Spanish because I think I love traveling and seem to have a really Enneagram 7s.
• 46:16
  If for anyone into Enneagrams, but on travel, I think I'm really motivated and inspired by traveling. This whole brand came from like being inspired by Aussie culture and, you know, smoothie bowls. So learning Spanish is kind of like an escape for me and motivates me to travel.
• 46:34
  I don't know, inspires me in traveling. And it's also almost like a meditation because you're like, you know, it's another language. Love that. Love the wellness checklist idea. I think that's really sweet. I'm going to give that a whirl for myself. Yeah, I was like, oh, that's my friend's business coach like taught her to do it. And the 80% goal. Like the 80% goal. That's great. Because then, yeah, I don't like get mad at myself if I do like all these great things, but I didn't practice my Spanish, then it's not a failed day.
• 47:03
  Totally. Question number five is if you only had a thousand dollars left in the business bank account, where would you spend it? Oh my gosh. I'm like, that would be gone in seconds. I'm just like, um, I would spend it on a teammate helping with ops because that's a big priority
• 47:33
  than others is rather than spending more on contractors or ads or whatever like first having in place like really sound operations and um just a team to handle the workload because like oh it's great if you put 3k behind advertising but if
• 47:56
  you're not equipped to optimize the marketing funnels or check the ads or like make sure they're like, you know, like really work at it because you're too busy processing the orders and dealing with the customer service on the back end, then you're not getting the most out of that campaign. So right now, I like my focus the past month, especially has been like,
• 48:16
  building more of a team infrastructure around myself. Obviously, we're kind of going into a new growth phase. So that's important. But yeah, before we start up like advertising again, or like getting in, we're starting to get into big stores, I want to make sure the background is set up. And I realized there's so many people out there that want to be a part of a business, whether it's from a part-time, you know, a lot of freelancers, a lot of people starting their own hustles.
• 48:40
  And I just resisted bringing other people into the business for so long. Like, oh, I need to do everything and I'm going to do it the best and blah, blah. And that might be true that some of the things you could do the best because it's your business and it's your brainchild and you care the most. But like, you've got to let go. Like, I'm trying to relentlessly delegate, which I'm not good at. But I think, yeah, bringing on someone who's helped with ops has been like,
• 49:03
  a huge weight lifted off my shoulder and gives me so much headspace to think more strategically about the business. So I would put it behind a person. And I think you raise a really good point where it's like, if you're also not doing things like your attention marketing funnel and figuring out what their next purchase will look like with you, then it is not a wasted opportunity, but it's dollars that haven't been optimized, like you said, which is a really good one to think about for other entrepreneurs who are going through that scaling phase.
• 49:33
  Exactly. Like even being in Whole Foods is amazing. But getting onto the Whole Foods shelf is like about one tenth of the battle. It's like once you're on the shelf, that's where like the real challenges begin from merchandising to making sure there's no out of stocks and it's on a store level. So now all of a sudden I went from zero to 51 stores and having to deal with each product.
• 49:56
  of those individual buyers and making sure everything's in stock and like having relationships with them and being the right part of the store and doing sales and blah, blah, blah. So you need to have people or resources. Cause you know, if it's just me, like,
• 50:11
  I'm a bottleneck and I can't put all the love that whole foods deserves into it. But then, you know, if someone else is helping, uh, and they're kind of taking the lead on that or they're doing some other tasks for me so I can put more energy in the whole foods, then we're going to like have a lot more success there. I have success either way, like we have a good product, but like,
• 50:31
  how good is it going to be? And like, you know, how we get to the next level, I think you need to like, kind of bring on other people and, and also just find what you're like, what is the best use of your time and your talents?
• 50:45
  thing for the longest time even for me like I'm like I just come to terms with the fact that I'm gonna have to manage all the manufacturing rounds and order the ingredients and like dealing with the apps until like we get to the next phase blah blah blah like we can't afford a VP of operations yet and then it's like you don't know what you're doing I'm probably the worst logistics operations person ever and I figured it out obviously because it's my business and
• 51:09
  you know, I've learned it, but these are things that someone else can do. So I actually last night put together a job description. So it's such an ongoing practice for me, but really thinking about what can be delegated so that your time's opened up. And I think it's always a process. Like there's still things I'm like, well, I have to do that. And then like a week later, I'm like, I don't have to do that. Yeah. You flip it, you flip it and be like, maybe I don't.
• 51:35
  I'm conscious of time. So I'm going to ask you this last question. I don't want to take up your time past our moment. Totally fine. Is it okay? Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So question number six is how do you deal with failure? What's your mindset and approach when things don't go to plan? I try to have a lot of grace with myself when things don't go to plan or fail. And I think the first thing I always do is go...
• 52:02
  do some sort of activity because exercise always makes me feel better and sweating out the frustration. So whether it's surfing or going on a really long run or boxing, I think it just kind of gets out that energy and anger or disappointment, whatever it is. That's kind of my first thing because, you know, the mind will be running of all these things that you could have done, right? Or like, how did you mess up? Blah, blah, blah. And then I think it then is kind of
• 52:30
  meditating on the why and why you're doing something and do you need to pivot is the why not working for you anymore um just reflection on do you still feel connected to the why and do you want to keep moving forward and then if you do i put on an npr how i built this podcast or whatever inspires you like for me even like going back to what i was so inspired by in australia like maybe i'll go to just let myself enjoy a part of the industry that i love like go to
• 53:00
  get back to why I fell in love with it in the first place and got excited about it and get excited again and then just start again. I don't know. My boyfriend said this to me once we had a particular disappointing news in the fall, which now he's pushed past and all good, but we were getting fundraising and it was probably the lowest I've ever been in the business. Just like this blows. How can I like,
• 53:27
  don't know how to go on, but I'm going to go on because they believe in this. And my boyfriend even just said to me one day, he's like, you just have to not quit and like, just keep showing up and the right opportunity will come, but you just have to keep showing up and being there for that opportunity when it comes. And I was like, okay, that's kind of a good point. I'll just not quit, which is easier said than done when you're like in the pits and you're like, how can I do this anymore? Like I've tried 20 things.
• 53:57
  pitching this or whatever it is. But, you know, you dig deep and just not quit. I love it. I think a mantra that my husband and I often say it's in the same space is just stop stopping. Yeah, I like that.
• 54:14
  Yeah. Love it. That's like a little cute. Just like, you just got to not quit. Stop stopping. Stop stopping. Emily, thank you so much for being on the show today and taking the time to tell us all about Little Bucks and what you're building. Yeah, this is super fun. Thanks for dealing with my chattiness and over-excitement on buckwheat seeds. Can't help it. Love the chattiness. Love the over-excitement on buckwheat seeds.
• 54:44
  Yay. Well, this is super fun. So I appreciate you having me.
• 54:52
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 55:17
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 55:39
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.
• 55:56
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 56:20
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 56:43
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.