Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Gorgeous co-ed raped, murdered, kidnapped from Target. 'Don't Be A Victim'

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Gorgeous co-ed raped, murdered, kidnapped from Target. 'Don't Be A Victim' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How many times do you
0:12
Speaker 1: wheel into the grocery store or them All or Target
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Speaker 1: and you hop out of your car and you're race in,
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Speaker 1: barely looking behind you. Maybe you think to keep the
0:25
Speaker 1: lock on the mini van? How many times do you
0:30
Speaker 1: do that? A week, a month, a year? Guys, I'm
0:36
Speaker 1: about to tell you the stories, the true stories of
0:40
Speaker 1: some young ladies that did exactly what we do every day,
0:45
Speaker 1: but they never made it home. Does the name Kelsey
0:57
Speaker 1: Smith ring a bell? It's the name I'll never forget.
1:04
Speaker 1: Listen to this. Saturday, June second, two thousand and seven,
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Speaker 1: Kelsey left her house to go to Target. She was
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Speaker 1: going to buy a gift for her boyfriend for their
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Speaker 1: six month anniversary. She was talking to her mother on
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Speaker 1: the phone at Target, found which you wanted, went to
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Speaker 1: the checkout stand, and basically, I think, closed out a
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Speaker 1: phone conversation with her mother saying I'll see you in
1:27
Speaker 1: a little bit. Kelsey was supposed to meet her boyfriend
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Speaker 1: John at the house at seven thirty. She had spoken
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Speaker 1: to her mom at Target at seven seven thirty. Rolls
1:36
Speaker 1: around Kelsey's not home. She wasn't answering text messages. She
1:41
Speaker 1: wasn't answering phone calls. That was a media caused for
1:45
Speaker 1: concern that something's up. The distance from Target to the
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Speaker 1: Smith's house probably an eight minute drive, and didn't take
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Speaker 1: them long to realize that something's not right. Her boyfriend
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Speaker 1: waits around for about a half hour. He's calling her,
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Speaker 1: he's texting her, and she's not answering. He starts to
2:05
Speaker 1: become really concerned, and that's when he calls Kelsey's dad,
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Speaker 1: Greg with me an all star panel to break it
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Speaker 1: down and put it back together again. And let me
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Speaker 1: tell you, we are not trying to make you afraid
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Speaker 1: of going to Target or the grocery store, of them
2:22
Speaker 1: all trying to arm you with information to protect you
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Speaker 1: and your children. It took me two years to research
2:32
Speaker 1: and write Don't Be a Victim Fighting Back against America's
2:36
Speaker 1: crime Wave. Proceeds are going to National Center for Missing
2:41
Speaker 1: and Exploited Children. When I began writing the part of
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Speaker 1: this book about protecting yourself while shopping, the first person
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Speaker 1: that sprang to my mind was Kelsey Smith. For so
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Speaker 1: many different reasons me Doctor Dewe. Joff ellis psychologist, Professor
3:03
Speaker 1: Columbia Jason Ocean, renowned attorney joining me out of New York.
3:08
Speaker 1: Richard Truntz, private investigator with Crispin Special Investigations out of Liquidille.
3:14
Speaker 1: Former police officer, doctor Tim Gallagher the medical examiner for
3:19
Speaker 1: the entire state of Florida, and you can find him
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Speaker 1: at pathcaremed dot com for your forensic needs. Sierra Gillespie
3:29
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com, investigative reporter. But first I want
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Speaker 1: to go to who I consider a friend, the father
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Speaker 1: of Kelsey. Greg. Thank you for being with us. Greg.
3:49
Speaker 1: I'm actually getting chill bumps on my arms and legs
3:51
Speaker 1: right now because I remember when we spoke and all
3:58
Speaker 1: you and your family went through when Kelsey went missing.
4:05
Speaker 1: What do you remember? You know, I have children now
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Speaker 1: and you're never going to believe it. Greg, They're about
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Speaker 1: to turn thirteen, and you're a little girl, just five
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Speaker 1: years older than my little Lucy. What do you remember
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Speaker 1: of that night when Kelsey went missing? It was it's
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Speaker 1: tough to describe. I mean, I didn't want to believe
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Speaker 1: that anything had happened to her, but it was so
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Speaker 1: out of character for her to not come home when
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Speaker 1: she said that she would be there. So the whole
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Speaker 1: evening as it unrolled, she was going to shop, like
4:44
Speaker 1: you said, to get a gift for her boyfriend, and
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Speaker 1: then they were going to go out. She was supposed
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Speaker 1: to be back at the house to meet him, and
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Speaker 1: she wasn't there on time, and we couldn't get ahold
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Speaker 1: of her by phone. On again, this is two thousand
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Speaker 1: and seven, so cell phones are not quite as ubiquitous
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Speaker 1: as they are now, but still a lot of people
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Speaker 1: had them. Texting was all the raids back then. Of course,
5:05
Speaker 1: that was back when you got charged for every text
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Speaker 1: that you made. I can tell you about phone, but
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Speaker 1: not being able to get a hold of her was
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Speaker 1: our first queue that something had gone wrong. And then secondly,
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Speaker 1: my parents lived out. I knew where she was at.
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Speaker 1: I knew she'd gone to the target. My parents lived
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Speaker 1: out that way. They drove by the target and didn't
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Speaker 1: see her car, but they continued to drive around and
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Speaker 1: there's a mall right across the street from the Target,
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Speaker 1: and they saw her car there. Oh gosh, okay, wait
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Speaker 1: wait wait, wait wait, I'm just getting that feeling. She
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Speaker 1: doesn't answer the phone. She always picks the phone up.
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Speaker 1: You know, she made it to target because she was
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Speaker 1: talking to her mom as she was getting the little
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Speaker 1: present for the boyfriend. This is, as I've always said,
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Speaker 1: a little girl scrubbed in sunshine, I mean precious good grades,
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Speaker 1: sweet sweet girl shopping at Target, and that feeling when
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Speaker 1: mom and dad keep calling, calling, calling, calling, and she's
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Speaker 1: not home. She's eight minutes away, for Pete's sake, the
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Speaker 1: grandparents driving around and they don't see her car at Target,
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Speaker 1: then find it at a mall, a mall near by.
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Speaker 1: But there was no reason for her to be at
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Speaker 1: the mall, right, Greg, not that we knew of the
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Speaker 1: only she was going to Target. She specifically had called
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Speaker 1: her mother while she was at the Target because the
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Speaker 1: item that she was looking for. My wife knew exactly
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Speaker 1: where it was, and they were having that conversation on
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Speaker 1: the phone to where to go to pick up the
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Speaker 1: gift that she wanted to give for John, which she
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Speaker 1: did purchase. It was found in the car. Later, when
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Speaker 1: you heard your daughter's car was spotted at a nearby mall,
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Speaker 1: or she wasn't supposed to be and she's not in
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Speaker 1: the car and the Target purchase is in the car,
7:08
Speaker 1: what went through your mind? Well, my first thought once
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Speaker 1: I got a phone call. The actual call I got
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Speaker 1: was from one of my daughters, Lindsey, who was out
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Speaker 1: with John. They were also driving around trying to find
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Speaker 1: Kelsey's car to see if they can figure out what
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Speaker 1: had happened, and then they ran into my parents, and
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Speaker 1: then Lindsey called me and said, hey, Dad, Mebi and Peppy.
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Speaker 1: My parents found the car and Kelsey's not here, and
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Speaker 1: John wants to open the doors and look around, and
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Speaker 1: I said, no, don't let him get anywhere near the car.
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Speaker 1: I'm on my way of called the police. Why did
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Speaker 1: you say that, Why did you say don't touch the car? Well,
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Speaker 1: I am law enforcement officer, and my first thought was
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Speaker 1: that something could be wrong, and I didn't want to.
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Speaker 1: I didn't want any chance of a crime scene that
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Speaker 1: might have trace evidence being disturbed. How did you know
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Speaker 1: that soon end this could be a crime. Gut feeling,
8:01
Speaker 1: call it appearance instinct or a gut feeling. She never
8:05
Speaker 1: ever ever was late. She was late one time in
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Speaker 1: her life and got grounded and then never did it again.
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Speaker 1: She would always text if she changed locations or call
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Speaker 1: and let us know, hey, I was at so and
8:15
Speaker 1: so's house, now we're down here. And it was just
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Speaker 1: something that I required as a police officer. Of all
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Speaker 1: my kids. I have five, and they Hey, I don't
8:24
Speaker 1: care where you're going, but I need to know where
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Speaker 1: you're at just in case something happens. And so you
8:28
Speaker 1: Richard Trance far of our Fort lauderdelle Cot now private
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Speaker 1: investigator with Crispin Special Investigations, He's so right because how
8:37
Speaker 1: much evidence can you lose or inadvertently destroy by touching
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Speaker 1: the car? Well, touching the car, you're going to touch
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Speaker 1: any DNA that's on the vehicle. You may mess with
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Speaker 1: a fingerprints there to be on there, you may remove hair,
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Speaker 1: any evidence that's in that car. Anybody touches that, you
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Speaker 1: have a very good chance that they're going to get
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Speaker 1: they're going to condamninate. So hold in that car was
9:02
Speaker 1: one of the best things, you know, the father could
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Speaker 1: have ever done. And allowing law enforcement to go in
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Speaker 1: there and let a professional team actually process that vehicle
9:11
Speaker 1: exactly exactly Crime stories with Nancy Grace, guys, we were
9:28
Speaker 1: talking about information to arm you to protect yourself and
9:32
Speaker 1: your family, and our new book Don't Be a Victim.
9:36
Speaker 1: And with me who I consider not just a colleague
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Speaker 1: but a longtime friend, the dad of a beautiful young girl, Kelsey.
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Speaker 1: This is Greg Smith, Well with a law background. He
9:49
Speaker 1: immediately knew what to do. Although how you stealed yourself
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Speaker 1: and told the boyfriend and the other daughter don't judge
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Speaker 1: the car at a time when you felt your daughter's
10:01
Speaker 1: missing amazes me. Guys, take a listen to our friends
10:05
Speaker 1: at Investigation Discovery. The surveillance video was very revealing. A
10:11
Speaker 1: white male was following Kelsey around the store, up and
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Speaker 1: down several aisles, staying far enough back that she couldn't
10:18
Speaker 1: quite see that he was following her. It was a
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Speaker 1: whole flight watching a lion circle a wild the beast.
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Speaker 1: I mean, this is something you see in the wild.
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Speaker 1: It was crazy. And then when she goes to the checkout,
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Speaker 1: that's when he leaves the store. We found out later
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Speaker 1: he had left the store before her so he could
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Speaker 1: go to his pickup truck and get his gun. This
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Speaker 1: is not something that happens every day anywhere, but especially
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Speaker 1: not no Flynn Park. To have somebody go missing from
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Speaker 1: a store like that, it's chilling. Anyone could have been
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Speaker 1: the target that day, it just happened to be her.
10:55
Speaker 1: Back to Kelsey's dad joining us, Greg Smith, and he
10:59
Speaker 1: is as one of the founders of the Kelsey Smith Foundation,
11:04
Speaker 1: which you can find online. I encourage you to do that. Greg,
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Speaker 1: what did the video show there at Target? Well, the
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Speaker 1: internal video inside the store, you can see Kelsey going
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Speaker 1: to the various places that she needed to go to
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Speaker 1: complete her shopping tasks and her abductor eventually killer is
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Speaker 1: always present in the video somewhere. He's not right behind her.
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Speaker 1: It's not very obvious. It's Bob Miller, who was one
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Speaker 1: of the lead detectives, described it like a some kind
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Speaker 1: of predator circling wildebeest, and that's exactly it. He was
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Speaker 1: not very overt about what he did, but it was
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Speaker 1: very obvious following his eyes. They were always following Kelsey
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Speaker 1: throughout the store and then of course when she left
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Speaker 1: the store. The abduction was actually caught on tape. To
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Speaker 1: Jason Oceans, new York defense attorney joining us. Jason Oceans,
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Speaker 1: I have always said NASA could take some clues from Target.
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Speaker 1: How many times has Target video been used at trial
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Speaker 1: and in investigations. It's incredible. In Nancy, the advent of CCTV,
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Speaker 1: and you know certainly is aided law enforcement families relative
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Speaker 1: to help you solve a crime situation. Here thousands, thousands
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Speaker 1: of crimes. And so you know the thing about target
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Speaker 1: is and Greg Smith, you know this better than anybody is.
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Speaker 1: It's incredible surveillance video. So I always questioned why people say, oh,
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Speaker 1: my camera wasn't working. The surveillance wasn't working. We taped over.
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Speaker 1: Its too grainy, because if Target can do it, anybody
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Speaker 1: can do it right if they can pull it off
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Speaker 1: the way Target does. And when you look at that video,
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Speaker 1: Kelsey has no idea. This guy is in every picture.
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Speaker 1: As you said, say, she comes in, then she's at
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Speaker 1: the checkout, then she said this aisle, that aisle. He's
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Speaker 1: always in the picture. I heard you say that, Greg. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's very apparent when you watch the video, particularly with
13:26
Speaker 1: you know, secondhand knowledge twenty twenty hindsight, that yeah, he
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Speaker 1: was in there, following her around the store and did
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Speaker 1: not have good intentions and she never noticed him, and
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Speaker 1: why should she? When you go shopping, are you constantly
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Speaker 1: looking over your shoulder? Well, I can tell you this much.
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Speaker 1: I have researched, investigated, prosecutor, and covered so many cases
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Speaker 1: that it really kicks in when you're going back to
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Speaker 1: your car, the likelihood that you're going to be attacked
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Speaker 1: in a department store. In a store is very low.
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Speaker 1: It's when you walk through those doors. Who is this guy?
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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at Investigation Discovery releasing
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Speaker 1: that surveillance footage that really helped this case because thousands
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Speaker 1: of tips came pouring in. It led to the two
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Speaker 1: tips that brought police to Edwin Hall. Edwin Hall was
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Speaker 1: the suspect. He was twenty six years old. Edwin Hall
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Speaker 1: was sitting at work on a lunch break and then
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Speaker 1: the news comes on on the television and one of
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Speaker 1: his co workers says, isn't that your truck? Looks inside
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Speaker 1: the lunch room. His truck's literally parked just outside the window.
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Speaker 1: So his co workers looking at the video on the
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Speaker 1: camp the news looking outside and confirming with Edwin, is
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Speaker 1: that your truck? And at that point Edwin tells his boss,
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Speaker 1: I sick. I'm going home. Oddly enough, Edwin All had
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Speaker 1: a MySpace page that described his interests as eating small
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Speaker 1: children and harming animals. He did have a violent history.
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Speaker 1: He had a record. He had threatened his own sister
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Speaker 1: with a knife when he was just sixteen years old,
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Speaker 1: joining me as Kilsy's dad, Greg Smith, Police releasing that
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Speaker 1: surveillance video footage of the man following Kelsey inside a
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Speaker 1: target with plenty of people around, no one noticed a thing.
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Speaker 1: His name Edwin Hall. He's at work when a coworker
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Speaker 1: sees on the news that police are looking for his truck,
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Speaker 1: and he immediately says he feels bad and leaves. Greg Smith,
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Speaker 1: do you remember that being flashed all across the news
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Speaker 1: in the search for your daughter? Oh? Absolutely, it was.
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Speaker 1: I mean, it was one of the good thousands and
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Speaker 1: thousands of tips that came in. Eventually, there were some
16:02
Speaker 1: people that identified him from the video. Particularly there was
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Speaker 1: a still shot that the law enforcement put out of
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Speaker 1: him exiting the store that gave some detail, and there
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Speaker 1: were several people that said, hey, I know who that
16:17
Speaker 1: guy is. As well as his truck was rather distinctive.
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Speaker 1: It was an older model truck, not that many of
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Speaker 1: them out on the road anymore, so it was clearly
16:25
Speaker 1: easy to identify, but it wasn't clear that he was
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Speaker 1: the person that had done anything because the abduction video
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Speaker 1: was not clear enough to identify who the abductor was.
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Speaker 1: So it was he was always a person of interest
16:42
Speaker 1: until finally some of that evidence that we talked about
16:47
Speaker 1: at the very beginning that was found inside the car,
16:49
Speaker 1: put him in the car. Let me ask you this
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Speaker 1: about that surveillance video and the parking lot. And I
16:56
Speaker 1: devote literally pages and pay greg about safe in parking lots.
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Speaker 1: But how do you think he managed to get it
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Speaker 1: over on Kelsey? She walked out the door, She had
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Speaker 1: a very short walk to her car. In your mind
17:18
Speaker 1: in law enforcement, how did he do it? How did
17:20
Speaker 1: he take her by surprise? He's done him before, that's
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Speaker 1: pretty obvious from watching the video. We got information after
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Speaker 1: the fact again that a lady had been attacked in
17:33
Speaker 1: a shopping district just over the state line in Missouri.
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Speaker 1: We're only twelve miles from Missouri. Same type of thing
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Speaker 1: happened where someone tried to grab her as she was
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Speaker 1: getting in the car. Although this person that attacked her
17:44
Speaker 1: didn't attack her while the door was opened. Her door
17:48
Speaker 1: was still closed and she was able to get away
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Speaker 1: from him. And they didn't have any video there, And
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Speaker 1: she did report it to police at the time, but
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Speaker 1: there were no pictures of him or anything. But she
17:57
Speaker 1: was my understanding as she actually called the police after
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Speaker 1: Kelsey's killer's picture showed up on television and said that's
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Speaker 1: the guy. That's the guy that did this to me.
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Speaker 1: It was very planned out. He parked a road behind her.
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Speaker 1: Video shows him following her into the parking lot. His
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Speaker 1: truck was behind her car. She pulls into a parking space.
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Speaker 1: His truck goes around behind the target building, makes a
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Speaker 1: complete circle, comes back, spots or car parks a road
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Speaker 1: behind Kelsey goes in. He goes in behind her, then
18:28
Speaker 1: he comes back out. He goes out the indoor so
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Speaker 1: it's obvious where he was and to pick him up,
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Speaker 1: and he goes out into the end of the parking lot.
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Speaker 1: And then the abduction you actually see it's just a
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Speaker 1: blur at first coming across the screen from the left
18:45
Speaker 1: hand side to the right hand side, which is the
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Speaker 1: actual abduction that took place. So it was very it
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Speaker 1: was very practiced. It was very quick, seventeen seconds from
18:55
Speaker 1: the time he appears in the video until her car
18:58
Speaker 1: backs out of the parking space, so he'd been there
19:01
Speaker 1: and done that before. This was not his first time
19:16
Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about
19:20
Speaker 1: information in a book that took two years to research
19:26
Speaker 1: and put together for you. This is for you to
19:31
Speaker 1: arm yourself and the ones you love with information. In
19:35
Speaker 1: joining me as a longtime colleague and a man I
19:38
Speaker 1: consider a friend. The father of Kelsey Smith, the founder
19:43
Speaker 1: of the Kelsey Smith Foundation, Greg Smith, along with an
19:46
Speaker 1: all star panel, Jason Ocean's doctor Debbie Joffe, Ellis, Richard
19:50
Speaker 1: Truntz with Crispin's Special Investigations, doctor Tim Gallagher, Sierra Gillespie. Guys,
19:57
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our friends
19:59
Speaker 1: that investig I should discovery. We do search Warren's house.
20:02
Speaker 1: He had us shrine first Healtic religion in his basement.
20:05
Speaker 1: There's talk that there was some kind of religious overtones
20:09
Speaker 1: to its, satanic overtonlets to it. Because of the murdering background,
20:14
Speaker 1: he wouldn't confirm it. But when we found Kelsey, the
20:18
Speaker 1: stakes and branches that were over her body were in
20:21
Speaker 1: a particular pattern that may have looked somewhat like a pentagram.
20:28
Speaker 1: It gave the impression that it might have best sacrificed
20:30
Speaker 1: for that religion. When police go to Edwin Hall's home
20:38
Speaker 1: to question him, he's packing bags with his wife and child.
20:42
Speaker 1: He says they're getting ready to go on vacation. They
20:45
Speaker 1: bring him in for questioning, and his fingerprints are matched
20:47
Speaker 1: for those on Kelsey Smith's car. Edwin R. Hall, twenty six,
20:52
Speaker 1: of Alifa, has been arrested for aggravated kidnapping and murder
20:56
Speaker 1: in the first degree with me is Kelsey's dad. The
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Speaker 1: first to doctor Debbie Jaffe ellis joining us from Columbia.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie, you hear that the rapist, the murderer has
21:11
Speaker 1: a wife and child. I know it's hard for a
21:15
Speaker 1: lot of people to understand. Why would someone that has
21:20
Speaker 1: the opportunity for regular relations with a wife seek out
21:26
Speaker 1: an innocent girl to rape. Well, even if he has
21:30
Speaker 1: some regular relations, clearly his brain is not operating in
21:34
Speaker 1: a healthy way. It's highly likely there's some neurological disorder,
21:40
Speaker 1: certainly psychosis and need to control, dominate and act in
21:44
Speaker 1: such obsessive and evil ways. And unfortunately, from the way
21:49
Speaker 1: you describe Kelsey and Greg, my heart felt condolences to
21:53
Speaker 1: you and your family, Kelsey sunny kind angelic. That kind
22:00
Speaker 1: of disposition can give an impression of an easy victim.
22:04
Speaker 1: And to go to one of the things you alluded
22:07
Speaker 1: to about your book, Nancy, the importance of being mindful
22:12
Speaker 1: to prevent such things that would include not sauntering walking
22:18
Speaker 1: in a very bold, assertive, direct, purposeful way in a
22:21
Speaker 1: place like a parking lot or open space, because someone
22:25
Speaker 1: who looks like an easy catch for an evil minded person,
22:30
Speaker 1: if they walk in a more assertive way, may just
22:35
Speaker 1: may thinking for an area catch. You know. I'm also
22:39
Speaker 1: curious Greg Smith because when you speak of Kelsey, when
22:45
Speaker 1: you describe the investigation, the disappearance, the discovery of Kelsey's body,
22:51
Speaker 1: you sound white law enforcement. How do you even at
22:57
Speaker 1: the time when you go, don't touch the car? How
23:00
Speaker 1: do you steal yourself and speak so clearly about what happened. Well,
23:10
Speaker 1: it's it's training, Nancy. I mean, I've been in law
23:13
Speaker 1: enforcement now for twenty three years. Um. And I mean
23:19
Speaker 1: not to say that this hasn't had a huge emotional
23:22
Speaker 1: impact on me. It has, um And you know, I
23:28
Speaker 1: had I had my round with PTSD because of this
23:32
Speaker 1: and some other things that happened in law enforcement. And
23:36
Speaker 1: it was interesting in conversations that I had with my
23:38
Speaker 1: doctor that he would often tell me when we were
23:42
Speaker 1: discussing Kelsey, stop telling me this, like you're a cop.
23:46
Speaker 1: I want to hear what her dad has to say. Um,
23:49
Speaker 1: it's a it's a coping mechanism. M I talked about
23:53
Speaker 1: it a lot while she was missing. Um. I could
23:55
Speaker 1: analyze the case as a cop and I could keep
23:58
Speaker 1: it together. UM. But when I switched over to Dad,
24:02
Speaker 1: it was a lot harder. So it was it was
24:08
Speaker 1: it was a way for me to function and think
24:10
Speaker 1: that I was doing something and feel that I was
24:13
Speaker 1: doing something to help find Kelsey. If I could stay
24:16
Speaker 1: in that, in that law enforcement mode and stay in
24:18
Speaker 1: that mindset, you know, Greg, Even now, all these years later,
24:24
Speaker 1: when especially when I'm surprised by the question and people
24:28
Speaker 1: ask me about the murder of my fiancee, I still
24:31
Speaker 1: feel sick. I feel I don't like talking about it,
24:37
Speaker 1: you know, As I mentioned, I have the twins now,
24:39
Speaker 1: and if you start talking about it, you take that
24:43
Speaker 1: little chip then it opens up the whole thing. And
24:47
Speaker 1: in the past, that could throw me into a depression
24:51
Speaker 1: that could last days, two weeks, two months, I mean dark,
24:56
Speaker 1: dark depression. And I don't want that for the children.
25:00
Speaker 1: I don't want them to be around that. So I
25:03
Speaker 1: hear what you're saying. It's easier to just kind of
25:06
Speaker 1: cut that off and deal with it. I guess professionally,
25:11
Speaker 1: is the only way I can say it. But when
25:14
Speaker 1: you say you had PTSD, how did Kelsey's murder end
25:25
Speaker 1: up effecting you and your family? Well, that was another
25:29
Speaker 1: conscious decision that we made. I mean shortly after her
25:34
Speaker 1: body was recovered and we were starting the process of
25:38
Speaker 1: all the court hearings and everything that is entailed in
25:41
Speaker 1: a capital in order case. We sat down as a family,
25:46
Speaker 1: my wife, Missy, and I with our kids, and we said, okay,
25:50
Speaker 1: he gets no more. And just to be clear, he
25:54
Speaker 1: is Kelsey's killer. And also to be clear, I never
25:56
Speaker 1: mentioned his name. My goal has always been that to
26:00
Speaker 1: make sure that Kelsey's story is promoted and not his.
26:02
Speaker 1: So I don't ever mention his name. That's just just
26:05
Speaker 1: something that I do. But he gets no more. He's
26:11
Speaker 1: taken Kelsey from us. He's not going to take our
26:14
Speaker 1: family's club for each other. He's not going to take
26:16
Speaker 1: our lives away. He's not going to take away the
26:19
Speaker 1: joy of later on we now have seven with an
26:23
Speaker 1: eighth grandchild on the way from my other children. Those
26:26
Speaker 1: types of things, those are ours, and he doesn't get that.
26:29
Speaker 1: He gets no more. And so that was a conscious
26:33
Speaker 1: decision that the family name and that we actually sat
26:36
Speaker 1: down as a family and discussed it. The second conscious
26:39
Speaker 1: decision we made was that this is about Kelsey and
26:44
Speaker 1: that this should be Kelsey's story and not his story,
26:48
Speaker 1: and so we always go out with that in mind.
26:51
Speaker 1: And Kelsey Smith Foundation, that's one of the reasons that's
26:54
Speaker 1: out there is is to commemorate Kelsey's life and talk
26:57
Speaker 1: about the type of person she was. But then we
26:59
Speaker 1: also of our safety component. I speak all over the
27:02
Speaker 1: United States on safety techniques and safety awareness, being aware
27:08
Speaker 1: of your environment, those types of things, as well as
27:12
Speaker 1: I also go over the United States and brief law enforcement.
27:15
Speaker 1: I do an actual case study on Kelsey's case, and
27:18
Speaker 1: we work. We work with states that have not yet
27:20
Speaker 1: passed the Kelsey Smith back which is legislation that helps
27:24
Speaker 1: law enforcement find missing people through cell phones and talk
27:29
Speaker 1: to each each organization that I can in those states,
27:32
Speaker 1: and now twenty seven states out of fifty have a
27:35
Speaker 1: Kelsey Smith ran to Dodger Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner
27:40
Speaker 1: for the state of Florida at pathcaremd dot com. Dodger Gallagher,
27:48
Speaker 1: can you, for instance, in Kelsey's case, determine how long
27:54
Speaker 1: she's been dead? And that's a good question. Nancy actually,
27:57
Speaker 1: there are excellent studies at some studies done by the
28:01
Speaker 1: University of Florida on the post mortem interval. One especially
28:06
Speaker 1: that comes to mind was done by doctor Leras Sutton.
28:11
Speaker 1: She came up with a formula that if you plug
28:14
Speaker 1: in temperature and a body temperature, ambient temperature, etc. You
28:18
Speaker 1: can come up with a very accurate post mortem interval.
28:22
Speaker 1: You know that's incredible to me, Doctor Gallagher, and I
28:25
Speaker 1: know you look at it as a forensic pathologist, as
28:28
Speaker 1: a medical examiner, but I'm looking at it from a
28:32
Speaker 1: crime point of view, and to you Richard Trump's PI
28:37
Speaker 1: with Crispin Special Investigations dot Com. It's amazing to me.
28:42
Speaker 1: It scary to me that all of this happened and
28:47
Speaker 1: such a short period of time. Kelsey was taken from
28:52
Speaker 1: the target shopping, she came out with the bag on
28:57
Speaker 1: the way to a car. Car was not that far
28:59
Speaker 1: from the door, and within a couple of hours it
29:03
Speaker 1: was all over and this young girl had been attacked
29:09
Speaker 1: and murdered, just like that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
29:27
Speaker 1: we're talking about the disappearance of Kelsey Smith and the
29:31
Speaker 1: death of Kelsey Smith, a gorgeous young girl. Her father
29:34
Speaker 1: joining us to you, Richard Trunce, Statistically, isn't that typical
29:41
Speaker 1: that the kidnapping and the murder occur much more quickly
29:47
Speaker 1: that people realize? I think it is. It does occur
29:51
Speaker 1: very quickly most cases. You know, they tell you if
29:54
Speaker 1: it's not solving forty eight hours, then you know, try
29:57
Speaker 1: and get these cases solved. Time progressive comes a little
30:01
Speaker 1: bit harder, but a lot of these cases do happen
30:04
Speaker 1: very quickly, and you know, thankfully there are good law
30:08
Speaker 1: enforcement officers out there that I mean, let me just
30:12
Speaker 1: cut the chase. What I'm saying is that minutes count.
30:15
Speaker 1: When you're starting to get to thirty six forty eight,
30:18
Speaker 1: seventy two hours, the likelihood that the victim is dead
30:23
Speaker 1: just rises, you know, exponentially. So when you're getting on
30:28
Speaker 1: to twelve twenty four hours, the likelihood the victim is
30:33
Speaker 1: a lie is very low. Yes, that's true. You know,
30:37
Speaker 1: having the law enforcement officers get to the person that
30:40
Speaker 1: got the phone call, getting the law enforcement out there
30:43
Speaker 1: to start doing starting to talk to people, starting to
30:47
Speaker 1: find out what's going on lateness, You know that that's
30:50
Speaker 1: extremely important because they're more fantasting. The officers are talking
30:54
Speaker 1: to other people, and in this incident, you have video
30:56
Speaker 1: for them all. So right away you have officers going
30:59
Speaker 1: over trying to secure video detector sciensper video of at
31:03
Speaker 1: them all in the parking lot. So that's something happens
31:07
Speaker 1: really quick. But you know you have to get out.
31:08
Speaker 1: You got to talk and trogate the parents where the
31:10
Speaker 1: call originated from, trying to find out what happened right
31:13
Speaker 1: away and as quickly as possible. Guys, take a list
31:17
Speaker 1: of our friends and investigation discovery. They had a pretty
31:20
Speaker 1: solid case. They had him on the surveillance cameras, they
31:23
Speaker 1: had his fingerprints. I think the community was very ecstatic
31:28
Speaker 1: that they could wrap this up quickly. Part of his
31:31
Speaker 1: a plea agreement to avoid the death penalty was to
31:34
Speaker 1: give a full confession. Edwin told me that Kelsey was
31:46
Speaker 1: just a crime of opportunity. He had been trolling Oak
31:49
Speaker 1: Park ball all day, was approaching ladies, asking him odd questions.
31:55
Speaker 1: He was looking for a particular behaviors and that's how
32:00
Speaker 1: he found her. Kelsey, unfortunately, was totally oblivious to what
32:04
Speaker 1: was going on around her, focused on shopping, talking to
32:08
Speaker 1: her mom, her She just wasn't paying attention to what
32:10
Speaker 1: was going on around her. Kelsey was just his opportunity.
32:15
Speaker 1: She was at the target. He thought she had nice
32:19
Speaker 1: legs and told Detective Miller that he thought she was
32:23
Speaker 1: twelve and that the evil just overtook him. Greg Smith,
32:28
Speaker 1: you're Kelsey's dad. He thought she was twelve. Ay, that's
32:32
Speaker 1: a lie because he'd been following her driving around and
32:35
Speaker 1: b is that supposed to make it better than he
32:37
Speaker 1: thought she was twelve. That would be a child attack
32:42
Speaker 1: and murder. Do you believe anything he said in his confession? Now?
32:46
Speaker 1: It is rather incredulous that he would think that she
32:50
Speaker 1: was twelve years old when he followed her car into
32:52
Speaker 1: the parking lot. And we often talk about that and
32:56
Speaker 1: how how strange that is that that description that you're
33:00
Speaker 1: that was actually my wife, Missy, talking about that. But
33:03
Speaker 1: you know what, You're right, Greg, Let's don't talk about him.
33:07
Speaker 1: To hell with him. Let's just get rid of him
33:10
Speaker 1: right now. Let's talk about Kelsey and what, if anything,
33:14
Speaker 1: we can do to help other people. That's what this book.
33:19
Speaker 1: Don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave.
33:22
Speaker 1: It's all about my proceeds going to National Center for
33:27
Speaker 1: Missing and Exploited Children. I start this chapter off with
33:32
Speaker 1: describing scenarios, real scenarios that I investigated, prosecuted, or covered,
33:37
Speaker 1: and in them is a story of Kelsey. I follow
33:42
Speaker 1: it up with pages and pages of tips for you
33:46
Speaker 1: to stay protected. For instance, mega parking lots and garages
33:51
Speaker 1: are a predator's playground. Pick a central spot well let
33:56
Speaker 1: because somehow you'll lose track of time inside and it
33:59
Speaker 1: gets the same goes for when you park on the street.
34:03
Speaker 1: Park where there are passer buys or hopefully even an attendant.
34:08
Speaker 1: Always note where you park. I now take a picture
34:12
Speaker 1: of it, especially in an airport or a big parking deck.
34:17
Speaker 1: Look at it before you leave the store, so you
34:19
Speaker 1: don't get out and parking deck number three or the
34:22
Speaker 1: green level and find out your car is not there
34:24
Speaker 1: at all. Isn't it true Greg that now so many
34:28
Speaker 1: cars have a fob with an emergency sound or a
34:33
Speaker 1: car horn on it. If you can't find it, tap it.
34:36
Speaker 1: Your car should make a sound to help you find
34:39
Speaker 1: it more quickly. Have your keys ready once you're in
34:43
Speaker 1: the car, shut the door, lock it immediately, and don't
34:47
Speaker 1: be fumbling with your bags or your cell phone as
34:51
Speaker 1: you walk. There are pages and pages of tips. Look
34:56
Speaker 1: in the backseat just before you get in the car,
34:59
Speaker 1: because once you get in, if there's somebody back there.
35:02
Speaker 1: And I've worked with a lady that this happened to
35:04
Speaker 1: her and her children. As somebody's in the back seat
35:07
Speaker 1: and you're in the driver's seat, it's too late, it's over.
35:11
Speaker 1: Don't linger to look in as you open the door
35:14
Speaker 1: and get in, then look in. But I've got the
35:17
Speaker 1: consummate professional with me who has devoted his life to
35:22
Speaker 1: helping other people after what happened to his daughter, Kelsey.
35:26
Speaker 1: I've got pages and pages and pages of tips, Greg Smith,
35:30
Speaker 1: but I want to hear your tips. It sounds like
35:35
Speaker 1: you've been attending some of our training, Nancy. From your book,
35:38
Speaker 1: all of that is fantastic. I would say two big
35:45
Speaker 1: takeaways that people should have for personal safety. Is one,
35:50
Speaker 1: it's just being aware of their environment, what's going on
35:54
Speaker 1: around them. We get so caught up in what's going
35:58
Speaker 1: on on Facebook or Twitter. As you're walking out in
36:01
Speaker 1: the parking lot. You've got your head buried in that
36:03
Speaker 1: cell phone. You've got no idea what's going on around you.
36:06
Speaker 1: So that would be my first one. The second one
36:09
Speaker 1: is always let somebody know where you're going. And I mean,
36:13
Speaker 1: if you know, if you're running to the store. You know,
36:17
Speaker 1: if I'm going to the store, I let Missy know.
36:19
Speaker 1: I say, hey, I'm running too, you know, the price
36:21
Speaker 1: chopper or whatever. If I stopped somewhere else, I'll text
36:25
Speaker 1: her and let her know that that or vice versa.
36:28
Speaker 1: She does that for me. If at the very least,
36:32
Speaker 1: as in Kelsey's case, that's a starting point for an investigation.
36:37
Speaker 1: If somebody all of a sudden was missing and and
36:42
Speaker 1: you know, make no mistake about it. With Kelsey's case,
36:44
Speaker 1: that's what it was. She just didn't come home on time.
36:48
Speaker 1: There wasn't video immediately available to figure out what happened,
36:51
Speaker 1: and even after the video was obtained, it wasn't obvious
36:54
Speaker 1: what had happened. There had to be some work done
36:57
Speaker 1: on the video to figure it out. And so, I mean,
37:00
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, she just didn't come home, didn't
37:03
Speaker 1: There wasn't in the indication necessarily their crime had been committed.
37:06
Speaker 1: So it was the fact that we knew where she was,
37:10
Speaker 1: the fact that she had these habits of letting us
37:13
Speaker 1: know when she changed location, and the fact that it
37:20
Speaker 1: allowed us in a very short amount of time to
37:22
Speaker 1: say something's wrong, something has happened, this is not normal.
37:26
Speaker 1: Beg let me tell you a couple of more of
37:28
Speaker 1: my tips. Obviously, look at the back seat before you
37:31
Speaker 1: get in, but always position your body to use your
37:35
Speaker 1: shopping cart as a shield or even a weapon. Laugh now,
37:40
Speaker 1: but thank me later. Use everything at your disposal, your pocketbook,
37:46
Speaker 1: your cell phone, the parking, this shopping cart. Keep it
37:50
Speaker 1: between you and everybody else. I know it sounds crazy,
37:56
Speaker 1: but it could save your life. By a at a
38:00
Speaker 1: car wash or an AutoZone type store so that you
38:05
Speaker 1: can see all the way behind you, even if you
38:08
Speaker 1: have a minivan, that you can see what's happening around
38:12
Speaker 1: your car. These are simple tips that anybody can follow.
38:18
Speaker 1: There are pages and pages of them in the new book,
38:22
Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim. And before I sign off to
38:28
Speaker 1: Greg Smith, Kelsey's dad, tell us about your foundation, Greg Well.
38:34
Speaker 1: The Kelsey Smith Foundation was founded exactly one month of
38:36
Speaker 1: the day after Kelsey's death, and the purpose is to
38:41
Speaker 1: provide resources and education to public organizations, schools, lawmakers, whoever
38:50
Speaker 1: about personal safety. And we have several different seminars that
38:54
Speaker 1: we offer at the foundation for that, and we also
38:59
Speaker 1: provide information about the Kelsey Smith Act, which was a
39:01
Speaker 1: law that was inspired by Kelsey started in Kansas, which
39:05
Speaker 1: allows law enforcement to gain quick access to location information
39:10
Speaker 1: only of a cell phone if the person has been
39:12
Speaker 1: determined to be missing or in danger at physical harm
39:16
Speaker 1: of death by law enforcement. The key to that is
39:20
Speaker 1: that the night that Kelsey went missing, we were on
39:22
Speaker 1: the phone constantly with her cell phone provider trying to
39:25
Speaker 1: find out if they could tell us where her phone
39:27
Speaker 1: was at, and they kept saying that they could not
39:29
Speaker 1: let us know because she was eighteen years old. Despite
39:32
Speaker 1: the fact that the phone was actually in Missy's name,
39:34
Speaker 1: my wife's name, they still would not give us that information.
39:38
Speaker 1: That legal procedures were initiated to get that information, but
39:41
Speaker 1: it took three days to get it in it and
39:43
Speaker 1: by the time by the time law enforcement got that information,
39:46
Speaker 1: it was late at night. They couldn't go out to
39:48
Speaker 1: the area and so they had to wait till the
39:49
Speaker 1: next morning. They went out to the tower that last
39:52
Speaker 1: made contact with Kelsey's phone and found her body within
39:55
Speaker 1: forty five minutes. So, now, Greg, and that is why
39:59
Speaker 1: you've got to have I find my iPhone activated, your
40:02
Speaker 1: tracking device on your phone activated. We have life three
40:07
Speaker 1: sixty and when my children just went down to seeing
40:11
Speaker 1: with their school at Disney, we followed the bus at
40:15
Speaker 1: a discreet distance, and we knew where they were. Within Disney.
40:19
Speaker 1: We could see them walking around because they had their
40:22
Speaker 1: cell phones. There's a million ways to stay safe. And
40:26
Speaker 1: before I sign off, mister Smith, I just want to
40:28
Speaker 1: tell you something. You changed my life. You really did.
40:38
Speaker 1: Guys Kelsey's story and many of the tips that Greg
40:42
Speaker 1: Smith is telling you today is in our newpook. Please
40:47
Speaker 1: act on them. Nancy Gray's crime Story. Signing off, Goodye,