Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / EP320 | Jack Langton on the Power of Sharing People’s Stories

Transcript

EP320 | Jack Langton on the Power of Sharing People’s Stories · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Ashley Giordano, and today I'm joined by Jack Langdon, who's
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: cycled more than 8,000 miles through Europe, Central and Southeast Asia.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: And he didn't stop there. From there, he built The
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Human Project, a media brand built around the fact that
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: everyone has a story worth sharing. Welcome to the podcast, Jack.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: I'm so So excited to speak with you.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on, Ashley. Excited to talk
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: about it here.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: And a special thanks to Honcook Dynapro Tire for supporting
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: this week's Overland Journal podcast. Be sure to visit expeditionportal.com
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: to see our features on the recent Honcook experience at
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: the fourth annual Bronco Stampede in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. We
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: took a look at the full line of DynaPro tires
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: and some great Ford Broncos from all over the country
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: as they gathered at this community event of enthusiasts and
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: top brands. Thanks again, Han Cook.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: So let's dive into your cycling trip first, because that
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: ultimately led to the Human Project, where I am assuming
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: some lessons were learned or you've felt that there was
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: something missing in the world that you'd like to contribute
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: about people's stories, especially ones that are extraordinary, unique, overlooked,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: or simply worth knowing about. I love that so much.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, let's back it up and tell me how
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: it all began.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would say, I don't, Human Project, when
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I first left on the bike trip, which was about
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: two years ago, August or April, 2024, Human Project was
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: definitely not an idea. I knew I had this opportunity
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: to take off six months from my job then, which
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: was as a consultant for PricewaterhouseCoopers. And I just kind
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: of wanted, I was searching for something that kind of
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: gave me an adventure and an activity to do every
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: day and a way to see a lot of kind
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: of off the beaten path places and travel in a
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: different way. And one way or another, I landed on
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: cycling and somehow kind of just decided that it was
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: best to start in London and see how far I
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: could get. Ultimately made it. to Singapore, but I would
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: say when I left London, I wasn't sure how far
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I was going to actually get. I knew I had
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: this amount of time and I was just going to
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: keep going east until I had to fly back to
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: the US. So yeah, me and my buddy left from,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: there was two of us from London to Istanbul. So
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: we basically crossed Europe together, which was about the first,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I would say month and a half of the five
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: months actually biking. And then the next three and a
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: half months were spent crossing Asia, which was, which kind
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: of was where I feel like was the unique part
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: of the journey. Europe was awesome and incredible and it
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: had some amazing people and views, but it was, it
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: was more kind of like what I know, I guess,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: because it's closer, probably closer to growing up in the US,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: especially Western Europe. As we got into more Eastern Europe,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: that was definitely starting to change kind of the people
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: and the places and what you saw. But yeah, the
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Asian chunk of it, I think was the most unique
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: experiences and wide variety of terrain and types of people
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: interacted with. And just kind of that whole experience, everything
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: felt new as I was crossing the Asian piece of it.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: So it was an amazing journey. I think it ended
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: up being about 150 days total, actually 120 days cycling.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I believe about 80 of those were spent sleeping in
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: the tent throughout the journey. And the rest were either
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: in larger cities where there was a hotel or a hostel,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: or actually we use this, especially in Europe, there was
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: this awesome thing called warm showers, which is kind of
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: like couch surfing, but for people that have done cycling trips.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: So these people, like it was amazing. People would open
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: up their house for you. And sometimes they wouldn't even
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: be home. It'd be like, oh, hey, I left my
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: key in the backyard. You can use the spare bedroom,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: but I won't be home till tomorrow morning. And so
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: there's this kind of, I found there in the cycling community,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: there's kind of this awesome, like there's just a good
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: feel to it and people are really trustworthy of each other.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: So it was cool. It was cool to experience the
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: cycling community because it had been not been something I'd
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: been part of before. So yeah, it was an amazing
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: journey with a lot of interesting moments and even better
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: people met along the way I'd say.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Very nice and had you you were saying that you
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: hadn't been part of the cycling community before was this
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: something that you just got your bike and you're like
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go or was there more preparation how did
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: you embark?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: So I think growing up I had me and like
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: me and my dad had obviously had done a little
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: biking like Would maybe I would mountain bike on the
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: weekend with friends, but it was mostly mountain biking and
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: there was no, there was never really a desire to
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: road bike. About five years ago, I randomly decided to
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: go to Spain and I cycled the Camino de Santiago
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: instead of, instead of walking it. So I think maybe
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: that was the entry entry to biking, but. That was
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: a totally different thing. Like I rented a bike when
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I got there. I was not prepared at all. I
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: didn't even have bike shorts. It was just two weeks.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: But that was probably kind of where the idea first
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: started that I could do a much larger bike trip
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: was those first two weeks. Yeah, but so then for
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: the larger one, I bought the bicycle in the US.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I think I brought it to a bike shop to
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: get set up. They put it together for me. I
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: tested it out for about like one mile around the block.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: just with all the weight on it and then took
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: it apart and put it in a box to fly
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: to London. And the first time I really rode it
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: was when I touched down in London and we rode
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: around the city. So I would say there was definitely
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: about a month period of getting the legs in shape,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: which you could definitely feel in the beginning. But after
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: that first month, the legs started to feel pretty good.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: But you had to get used to kind of just
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: the daily mileage every day. And then obviously the weight
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: of the bike was something I wasn't used to at all.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: So it was a month I kind of in my
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: head knew I would ride myself into getting in shape
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: for it. And I think that's what I did. And
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: it worked out, but it's not always the best strategy
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: because it leads to some obvious growing pains in the beginning.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: But luckily, that Europe piece was, I think, in Europe,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: we were doing much shorter segments, kind of going from
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: major city to major city, not doing too long a days,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: maybe about 50, 60 miles. And then once I got
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: to Asia, I started to pick up the distance as
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: the legs were feeling better. Like Turkey was probably doing
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: 80 to 90 miles a day. And then the stands
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: in India was probably more in the range of like
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: 95 to 110 miles a day. So as the legs
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: kind of got into better shape, I think I picked
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: up the mileage, which was nice as well.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: What were the toughest moments for you on that journey?
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I think... I found, so in terms of like when
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I was most nervous, it was never really when I
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: was biking except for a couple odd situations, but I
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: did find, I think the tenting alone in rant kind
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: of a tent, being in a tent alone in foreign countries,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: when you don't know the area at all that you're
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: stopping in because you just stopped when it got dark,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: I always found to be a bit nerve wracking because
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, like while I would try to find
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the safest place to set up the tent, Once that
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: tent was set up, whether it was a park or
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: a beach or just kind of in a city center,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: like that's the tent and I'm getting in it and
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: I don't really know what's happening around me. So if
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: someone were to ever come up to the tent, that's
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: when I felt like the most vulnerable. But fortunately, nothing
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: really ever happened. Like I kind of was just like,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: if someone comes up, I'm going to deal with it.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: But somehow, some way, nothing really ever, no one ever
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: bothered me too much in the tent at night. So
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: that was good. The most nerve wracking I felt actually cycling.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I remember there was this one day in Turkey. I
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: had just gone through Istanbul. I was probably maybe a
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: couple hundred miles past Istanbul along the Black Sea. And
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I was trying to take, it was so hilly. I
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: was trying to take a shortcut to avoid one of
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: the big hills. And it ended up being like this
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: dirt kind of mud road through the woods, which was
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: a horrible idea because It turned into me having to,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: like where the mud got so stuck on the back
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: tire that you couldn't pedal. So I remember I had
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: the bike up on my shoulder at one point and
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I'm walking up this hill in the middle of the woods.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: And one, I'm concerned about bears because I do believe
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: there was bears in that part of Turkey. So I
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: remember I'm kind of like trying to sing out loud,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: make as much noise as possible because now I'm in
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: the middle of the woods alone in Turkey. And that
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: felt vulnerable as well. But I was just, it was,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I was going down this path forever in the woods
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: and there was no cars in sight. And then I
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: stumbled onto this makeshift hut with smoke coming out of
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: it and a couple trucks. Probably was doing something illegal
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: if I had to guess, making drugs. And I was
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: just like, I got to get by this as quick
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: as possible. So I kept going down the dirt road.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Turns out why that was set up there is because
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: that road had been wiped out by a mud, like
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: a landslide. So it was, I think everyone else in
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: that area knew there was no point in going down it.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I just happened to stumble down it and tried to
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: go down it. And then I had to do this.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I had a, I tried to go through the landslide,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: could not get through it. And I had to go
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: back past this kind of this, this hut in the woods.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: And I just remember thinking like this, this is, they
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: found me alone in the woods. This is where it's
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: going to get sketchy, but somehow made it through that.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So that, those are kind of the moments that stand out.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: But honestly, people ask all the time. They're like, Did
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: you get robbed? Did you get hit by a car?
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Did people try to fight you? And nothing happened. 99.9%
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: of the people that I interacted with were amazing and
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: only wanted to either talk, have a picture together, give
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: me food, give me drinks, or even offer to sleep
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: in the house. So it was just a experience after
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: amazing experience. And I couldn't be like, it was just
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: such a fulfilling thing to kind of meet these people
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: along the way that really just wanted to go out
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: of their way and talk to you and help you out.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: So that was an awesome part of it. Absolutely.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about the psychology of overlanding or traveling.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: And over time, You're getting used to sleeping in places
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: that are very different almost every single night. And did
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: you find that throughout the journey, you got more and
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: more comfortable because you had that experience where, oh, no,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: everything's going to be OK because I have everything has
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: been OK so far? Or did you find that you
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: were still nervous along the way?
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say like from the beginning to the end
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: of the trip, you definitely get more comfortable with the tent.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: And I think you learn where's maybe a safe spot
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: to set it up and where's not a safe spot.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: try to have it a little hidden, try not to
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: make it where people can see you off the road.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Try to not, you know, have a bunch of people
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: watch you go out where they know you're setting up
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: a tent. I think you learn these little things. You
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: learn how to set up the gear so you're not
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: as vulnerable in the tent. But yeah, I think with anything,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: with anything, right? As you're doing it more and more,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: it becomes more second nature and becomes more comfortable. And yeah,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: by the time I think I got to like Kazakhstan
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: and Uzbekistan and I slept in the tent for many
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: nights in a row, like Really, there was not too
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: much concern. But out of everything on the bike trip
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: where you're kind of going through all these foreign places
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: and meeting all these people, sleeping in the tent was
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: the only thing that really stood out to me as like,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: this feels a little sketchy while everything else did not.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I don't think
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: it was actually like, yeah, it was a minor thing really,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Yes. Very good. So how did it feel moving through
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: the Central Asia and Southeast Asia, you were talking earlier
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: about the change, changing culture and people. What were the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: things that you noticed along the way there?
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: It was, I think the people that were nicest to
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: me were probably Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan. That both, first
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: of all, The first kind of nine, 10 days from
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: the Caspian Sea to kind of reach the first major
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: city on the Silk Road, which I don't know off
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: the top of my head, but was all desert, essentially
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: just kind of cycling down this one road in the desert,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: which was fairly busy for being in the middle of
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: the desert, really. But constantly people were stopping to hand
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: me water, hand me food, ask how I was doing,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: because it was... June, July at this point. So it
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: was about 105 out in the desert. So people wanted
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: to give you water for that. But then in Uzbekistan
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: was kind of the two different times where people, not
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: from like the warm showers app that I was talking
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: about before, people just opened up their homes for me
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: to sleep in. So I remember I met one group
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: of guys at a restaurant that I was at in
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Uzbekistan after I'd gotten out of the desert, met up
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: with these guys, started having a few drinks with them actually.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And then we went back to his house and we
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: did this kind of makeshift celebration. They were just kind
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: of throwing food at me all over the place, which
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: was incredible. The son was a mechanic. I had a
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: flat tire at this point that I could not find
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: the needle in. So I was consistently kind of getting this.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: My tube was popping in the tire. And I just
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: remember like the son, we're in the living room of
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: this house in Uzbekistan and the son has my bike
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: all turned apart and is kind of going through my
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: tire kind of inch by inch trying to find something.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: exactly where the needle was for me after this massive
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: celebration they did at the house. And then a couple
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: of days later in another town in Uzbekistan, I was
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: looking for a place to sleep and I'm kind of
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: going off the side of the road. I see a
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: guy sitting there in his front yard and I'm just
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: kind of making signs at him to ask him if
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: he has a place to sleep because there was not
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of English being spoke there. It was all
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: either Russian or the local language. And then so I
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: couldn't speak either. So it was through Google Translate. But
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I was asking him, kind of making a symbol for
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: a tent. And what ended up happening is he let
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: me actually sleep, I think, in his bed. And he
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: slept on this kind of makeshift porch outside. And then
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: in the morning, he woke me up at about 5 a.m.,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: which was quite unexpected. But woke me up at 5 a.m.,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: brought me around town to show me his, like, he had,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I think it was grapes for a vineyard, like a
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: very small vineyard. And then I went into town with
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: him for this kind of this breakfast they had, they
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: must've been doing. It was about 70 guys from the
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: town and none of them spoke English, but we were just,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: he had me shaking hands with everyone. And then by 7am,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I was on my way again, biking. So it was,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: those are extremes, I think, where people let me sleep
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: in their house. But over and over and over again,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: it was food being given to me. It was stopping
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: to try to have a conversation. It was sitting with
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: me as I'm eating to kind of try to have that,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: that those small interactions with you. And it was just
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: nothing but like really friendly, really incredible people all through that.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: I call it the stands region, but I didn't go
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: through Pakistan or Afghanistan. And then I think the, the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: going South in Asia to India is, I think India
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: was the hardest part of the trip, but also the
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: most unique. I tell people there's, Every country I biked through,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: and then India kind of stands alone just for how
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: different it was, in my opinion, to everywhere else. It
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: has a couple things going that I think make it
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: stand out. One, there is just so many people there,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: and the roads are crazy to bike on. There was
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: really nothing else like it. Every city had that kind
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: of constant theme. I think they use honking as a
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: language there, so... you're constantly hearing the honking there, which,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: which was, which was a bit interesting, but like the
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: colors and the kind of the, just how everything looked
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: and even just the smells of India, it was, there
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: was nothing else like it, in my opinion, it was
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: incredibly challenging to bike through. And the people I think
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: were a little more demanding than every country kind of
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: wanting your time and attention and pictures, but also the
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: most interesting and unique and rewarding just because of how
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: different it was and how much like, You could see
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: the culture physically, visually changing in front of you as
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: you pass through the different provinces or states of each
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: of northern India. And it was just I it stood
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: out as this like kind of just on its own
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: of a little different from everywhere else in good ways
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: and in bad ways. But yeah, India was India was
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: interesting for sure. Very nice.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you and we'll get to
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the human project shortly because I think that'll probably be
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: part of your answer here. But how as travelers do
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: we give back? along the way.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah I think it's just being respectful of their culture
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: to start I think you you should never go somewhere
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: trying to put your own views of life or kind
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: of your perspectives and push that down to someone like
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: people all over the world have grown up differently and
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: have their own perspectives and own views and own ways
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: of doing things I think you should always be respectful
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: of that and you should you should try to learn
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: from that and kind of you know and it You
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: don't have to agree with everything they're doing, but I
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: do think there's something important to being mindful of other
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: cultures and other places and just respecting that as you
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: go there and not trying to push your own narratives
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: on them. And I think if you interact with everyone
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: like that, it's the best way to go about it, really.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: For all the adventure seekers out there in search of
• 17:31
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• 17:36
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• 17:52
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• 18:16
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• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have an open self.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Be open, open-minded. And I think we've talked about this
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: on the podcast before, but do your research and yeah,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: ask questions, all of those things. And I'm curious about
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: your experiences on the cycling trip and how it led
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: to the human project. So you can talk a little
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: bit about how that came to be.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think really it was just, I wasn't filming
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: any of it. I was taking pictures here and there,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: a couple of videos on my phone, but for the
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: most part, my objective was to wake up and bike
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: as far as possible. And I did that, but I
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: missed out on kind of, I didn't miss out. That
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: was the objective. And I did that. But along the
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: way I had, I met so many unique and interesting people.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: I saw so many really kind of amazing things. And
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: at the end of the trip, I don't even think
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: human practice was an idea yet. Right at the end.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I think when, when the trip ended, I was probably
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: happy to decompress for a little bit, but I got
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: back to work and probably about a month and a
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: half later, I started thinking like, well, it would be
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: really cool if I could find, if I could kind
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: of try to merge this love for adventure and travel
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: and all the different kind of unique people I met
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: along the way into an actual more of a business
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: and my life and not just something that I get
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: to do when I have vacation or time off. So
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: that idea led to Human Project where the goal, the
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: idea was that you know, so many people around the
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: world have amazing, unique stories, and they're doing incredible things.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: They're doing incredible work. There's communities doing stuff that I
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: know nothing about, that we know nothing about. And I
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: thought it'd be really cool to try to travel around
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: and make short kind of like mini documentaries about them
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: and interview them. And so that's why that was kind
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: of the thesis for Human Project and how it started.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that started about nine months ago in August 2025.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: I started that. I did the first six months in
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: the US. I drove back and forth across the US twice.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I was sleeping in my car trying to find stories
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: along the way as I was traveling along the US.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: But the goal was always to eventually go abroad. So
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: After the U.S. part, I went to East Africa for
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: three months. I was in Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania. And
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: then now I'm back in Europe filming more stuff in
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Paris right now. I will say like my background, and
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: this is maybe another thing kind of you heard me
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: talking about how I bought the bike. And really the
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: first time I rode it was in London. Maybe this
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: has a similar start, which I, again, think is probably
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: not the best way to do it. But my background,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: like I was doing M & A consulting. I was
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: not in any way in media. But my thesis was
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: that I don't know how to use a camera well,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: and I don't probably know how to interview people well.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: But I can talk to people, and I've had conversations
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: with people all over the world. And I have an ability,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: I think, to find these different stories and unique people.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: And as long as I continue to do that, I
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: will figure out the other parts of it. So... I
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: kind of jumped right into it. And there's been some
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: growing pains. It's definitely harder than I thought to edit
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: and film and ask the right questions and make a
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: compelling story. And the initial idea was to make these
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: longer form videos on YouTube and kind of tell long
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: form documentary stories, 5, 10, 15 minutes. And yeah, honestly,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I just found that that was, it just wasn't good
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: enough at what I was doing yet to make that
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: really like a format that worked for human projects. So
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Through going through learning that, where I've landed now is
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: kind of more these 60 second mini documentaries. I think
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: it allows me to focus on more variety of stories
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: and meeting more people than just one big story at
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: a time, which for me works. So yeah, that's kind
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: of It's definitely still a working process. And there's growing
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: pains every day as I go through it. But there's
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: been some good progress. So I'm glad with how it's
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: gone so far.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I'm curious about the first part of the trip, first
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: of all, in the U.S. Were there some stories that
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: were particularly compelling to you or that were surprising that
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: you learned from or, you know, changed the way you
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: look at life?
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: So when I left, And was in the US. The
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: goal then was to kind of try to find... It
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: wasn't to always find like really serious stories. I enjoy
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: lighthearted stuff, to be completely honest. And if it makes
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: me laugh, then I would love to make a video
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: about it. So that was kind of the mindset I
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: initially set out with. In the US, I stumbled upon
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: these really cool... So in the US, there's actually something
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: that is hard to find anywhere else. And it's like
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: these real life superheroes. It's actually... all over the US.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Any major city, I think, probably has a real life superhero. Essentially,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: it's someone that they usually dress up in a costume
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: because that brings awareness to what they're doing. And I
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: would say 90% of their time is spent handing out
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: care packages to the homeless in their cities. And maybe 10%
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: of the time is used to help break up a
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: fight or like some kind of disturbance going on. But like,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: If you're walking around a city, I mean, how many
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: fights do you really see? Like that's not something that's
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: that common. So really what they're doing is dressing up
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: like superheroes to help out the homeless and they're giving
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: all their own, like, I mean, it's all their own
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: money essentially. And it's not cheap. They're giving socks, care package,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: like toiletries, food, water. Like it adds up quickly when
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: you think about The cities I saw was San Diego,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: which has a ton of homeless people, unfortunately, and Albuquerque,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: which also has a big population of unhoused. So I
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: met up with Skyline in Albuquerque, who does that. And
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: then the Extreme Justice League in Southern California, who helps
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: out with the community there. So it was just it
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: was really cool to see because, of course, you know,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: you're walking around the streets and you have you see
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: a group of people dressed up like superheroes and it's
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: going to get some weird reactions, but at the end
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: of the day, they're just, they're really trying to help
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: out the homeless. So I found what they were doing awesome.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: And it's shocking. I think how many there are just
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: around the U S groups like that. Some other cool,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: really interesting things. I, I think it was December. I
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: went with a community. They rented out an old Mormon
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: polygamous house in Utah and did an ayahuasca retreat. And
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: then they gave me actually access to film most of it,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: which was incredible. And, An ayahuasca retreat, I mean, people
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: go for all different reasons, right? You have, there's a
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: lot of reasons, some trauma related, some not, but just
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: amazing stories about kind of the different things people had
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: gone through and why they're there using the medicine and
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: kind of seeing what that retreat is up like close
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: and personal throughout a weekend was an incredible experience. Personally,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: don't know if I really did it justice because I
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: was only a couple months into human projects at that point.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: So I wish I could have made them a better video,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: to be honest. But it was that was really interesting
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: to see and just kind of like the theme I've
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: realized throughout all this is the camera gives you access
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: to things maybe you wouldn't have normally and a way
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: to kind of view things in a different way. So
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: it's really cool sometimes to be behind the camera. Like
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I would never... have access to be sitting in an
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: ayahuasca ceremony as a group of 30 people are doing it,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: but I was able to do it for this. And
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: that was just, it was awesome to see that. I
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: think one of the other things that stands out from
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: the US leg was traveling circus. I ran into a
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: traveling circus in Georgia. They had been on tour all
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: over the US and kind of just hearing, like you
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: hear about that lifestyle of someone that's in a traveling
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: circus and They're always on the road. It sounds demanding, right?
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: But then you actually see it like how many RVs
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: there are and how much goes into like, you're probably
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: at a fair for two days. And there is so
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: much to set up for a big circus tent and
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: so much that goes into it. And kind of getting
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: to see that and the people that work there, which
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: were mostly a lot of the performers had actually come
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: from Mexico for the group I met. And this was
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: kind of their way of following their dream in the U.S.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: was to join this traveling circus. So getting to talk
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: to them and hear their experiences, that was a really
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: cool one from the U.S. as well.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: How do you find the stories and gain people's trust?
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I first started, I thought like, oh,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to walk around the city. I'll find people.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I'll be able to pitch the idea. And boom, It's
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: going to be all kind of done by word of
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: mouth and me finding people. And I maybe have found
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: one person like that. It has not worked at all.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I've spent, wasted way too much time walking around cities
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: trying to find people to interview and tell stories about.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: So I would say, yeah, 99.9% of it is me
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: reaching out to people online. I think the way I
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: view it is I'm just constantly searching the internet for
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: stuff that I, unique people, unique communities, engaging content that
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I think could make an interesting story that's not, maybe
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: as that talked about right now, or has maybe a
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: smaller following. So I'm just constantly reaching out to people online.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And I think I gained their trust by two ways.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: The initial email is pretty barren. It's just kind of
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: outlining the idea and giving them my links. But then
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of times we'll hop on a call. I
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: think depending where I've been, it's been a little different.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Like when I was in Africa, East Africa, I met
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: up with almost everyone before filming. I grabbed a coffee
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: with them. So I think there they were more comfortable
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: meeting in person. When I was in the U S
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: people were more comfortable with doing a phone call first.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So it's, it's usually takes kind of that initial interaction,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: sending an outline of exactly what I have in mind
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: and then there'll be good, good to film. But yeah,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: it is, it is bent. That was an adjustment when
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I got to Africa. Cause I was like, now I
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: have to, now I have to spend another couple hours
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: getting ready, like in putting into this video that I
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: didn't have to do in the U S where it
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: was just a quick phone call.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: So.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: I think it changes everywhere, actually.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I bet that is such an important part
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: of it is gaining their trust and doing the face-to-face
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: so you can really hone in when you're doing the
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: actual filming on the deeper part of the story. So
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: that's great. In Africa, you were in East Africa. Which
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: countries did you go to? And what are some of
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the highlights and stories from that region?
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I started in... kenya for a month went
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: to tanzania for a month and then uganda for a
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: month fortunately i think there was a lot of english
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: being spoken there which helped me a lot a little
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: more difficult actually i think in paris to find an
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: english speaker always than it was even in nairobi or
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: kampala which is the capital of uganda which is interesting
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: but but yeah there was i like i mentioned before
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: i i was in my head this was always kind
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: of like either underground communities or lighthearted stuff. When I
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: got to Africa, that stuff was either harder to find
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: or I couldn't find it or maybe didn't exist as much.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: So it took a little bit of a different route
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: and started doing stuff a little more serious, I would say.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: A lot of the time, it was maybe partnering with
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: different NGOs in the cities because we They had a
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: good website set up. They were easy to find online
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: and they wanted their kind of NGOs are happy to
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: share their story. So I think it went, it went
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: down that route. And well, the first story that comes
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: to mind from the Africa time is in Tanzania, outside
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: of Arusha, there's a group called HIMD Hindi. Essentially it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: a home in, in rural Tanzania, but also a lot
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: of rural Africa and more than just Africa. kind of
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: young teenage girls face two things. One, arranged marriage, which
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: usually can happen at any age, but is probably before
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: they're 15 or 14. And then two, in rural parts
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: of Tanzania, they go through female genital mutilation, FGM. So
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: they're often caught prior to the arranged marriage. It makes
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: them in the in the eyes of those cultures, kind
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: of more worthy to be married. Really what it does
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: is it kind of removes any sensation from sexual activities.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: And then in their minds, like really there's less of
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: a lust to maybe cheat on your husband is probably
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: why it's done. If you dig into it more, but
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: the girls as kind of, you know, access to information
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: has become more available in those areas, the girls are
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: learning that, yeah, I shouldn't probably go through this. So
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: they've started to run away more. And I met up
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: with a group outside of Arusha, Tanzania, that is a
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: kind of a home for these young girls that have
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: run away, whether it was from the arranged marriage or
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: from the mutilation or from both. And I got to
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: talk to the woman that runs it and a few
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: of the girls as well about their stories. And it's
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, I mean, it's tough stuff. They think
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Over 200 million girls, women in probably have living today
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: around the world have gone through FGM, which is just
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: a staggering number. But like you're, I was in this,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I was in this facility and let's say there was probably,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: there's probably about 15 girls there that I ran away
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: when I was there. I think there's more, but all
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: of them had kids that were probably, they were all
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: between the ages of like 13 to 16 and had
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: kids that were like two to five years old. So,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: It's a tough, it's a different way of life there.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: And I think the hard part is, and what I
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: learned by working with this group, a lot of the girls,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: the young girls think they want to be cut because
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: they've been told their whole life that's what makes them
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: an eligible bride when they get older. And they don't
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: know any better. So half the battle is even just
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: getting the younger women and girls to understand that this
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: isn't good for you. You don't need to go through
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: this because At the end of the day, it's very
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: different than the male circumcision because once the girls there
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: are cut, along from having no interest in sexual desires,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: it also makes childbirth. What I was told is childbirth
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: is way more dangerous because it just can't contract as normal.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: So a lot of the girls that get cut end
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: up dying in childbirth. So when I started Human Project,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't think I'd get into hearing these stories and
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: interviewing these types of people. but, but it was real.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: I'm glad I did. Like it was, it was, it
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: was awesome to learn about and I'm happy I was
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: able to share their story. And I hope someone that
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: watched it learned something new for me. I didn't know
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: that much about FGM and I hope some of the
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: other people that follow human project, maybe, maybe learned a
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: little bit about FGM by watching those, those videos. But
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: I think if you make one more person aware, that's
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: maybe you're one more person closer to finding someone that's
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: actually going to be willing to put in the time
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: and effort. So It's just continuing to try to make
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: more and more people aware until it gets in front
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: of the right person that has the ability and capacity
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: to help an organization like that that's helping these girls
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: that run away. And at the end of the day,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: it all comes back to these groups usually need money, really.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: That's the most helpful thing for them. They need better
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: facilities for the girls. They're trying to run a school
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: for the kids. They need food to shelter the people.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: They need to pay rent. They need money to try
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: to go out and teach educational things. So I don't
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: think it's a clear path from awareness to actually making
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: change happen. But I think for someone like me, like
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: part of the time, the best thing I can do
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: is try to help spread the message. And I think
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: if I look at it as like, if I look
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: at it in too big of a picture, like, oh,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: no change is happening. Like you're not getting in front
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: of people. It becomes, you start to spiral. But if
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: I look at it as, one person at a time.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: If I make one more person aware, that's one more
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: person that was aware than yesterday. And I think that's important.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: And you just never know what could happen. It could
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: snowball into something way bigger. So yeah, I just try
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: to look at it like that.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. And then being on the ground, like you said,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: asking the local people from there, what is the best thing?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: And yeah, they know they're country, region, city better than
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: we do. And so they can, they know what they need.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: It's always asking, but yeah, the spreading of the word.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Tell me some more, some more stories about East Africa.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: So that's the first one that comes to mind. Another
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: one was albinos are kind of treated a little weirdly
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: in East, in, I'm going to assume all of Africa,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: but I only can speak to East Africa really, especially,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, they just stand out a lot, but especially
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: in border region of Kenya and Tanzania. I think more
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: about 10 years ago, there was a big issue with
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: people from Tanzania crossing the border into, well, not only
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: happening in Tanzania, but they also crossed the border into
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Kenya and were abducting albinos in the area because they
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: thought that if they cut off their hands or just
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: killed them in general, that it would either one, bring
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: them riches or two, help the politicians they wanted to win,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: win the election. So I was able to, I actually
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: talked to an Albino guy that lived in the border
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: area between Kenya and Tanzania. And we were just kind
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: of chatting about, yeah, some of the dangers they face.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: They have to always be aware. They have to be
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: especially careful if they're crossing over to the Tanzania area
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: and kind of what's that like. But then also there's
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: just a lack of, and this is probably a constant
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: theme with outside of just someone that deals with albinism,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: but They just don't have the right care facility set
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: up in a country like Kenya to help anyone outside
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: of Nairobi, which is the capital, that has to deal
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: with albinism. So where if you're in the US or
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: some other countries, you could easily go to a dermatologist.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: There's no dermatologist in the border region of Kenya and Tanzania.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: They have to take a six-hour train to Nairobi if
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: they need to see a dermatologist. And for someone that
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: deals with albinism, they need to go to a dermatologist.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Melanoma is the number one risk for them. So getting
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the right care was something they really struggled with in
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: that area. Yeah. And just kind of what it's like
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: to deal with kind of that constant threat of people
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: wanting to cut your hands off or kill you because
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: they think you're albino, that your body's worth helped win
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: a political election, was just really interesting to hear. And
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: then when I was in Kampala, I linked up with
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: this really cool skateboarding group. So they used to have
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: this little skate park right outside. There was one big
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: garbage dump outside of Kampala. It was called Kitsaizi. I
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: might be saying that village slightly wrong. The dump actually
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: closed a couple years ago because it was so... piled
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: up that the trash collapsed in on itself and at
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: least 50 people died it was like a landslide of
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: trash but they had this skate park right outside the
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: dump and it was becoming this skate village where like
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: everyone in the community was going to this little skate
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: park but so recently actually in the last like couple
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: months organization I think it's called make life skate life
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: something like that built them this new incredible skate park
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: like in this random in this smaller village outside of
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Kampala It's by far the nicest skate park probably around.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: I would assume it might be the nicest skate park.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: It would be up there for all of East Africa.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: It's got what they call international standards, which means it
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: meets all the regulations of what a skate park would
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: be in a real international competition. So that's very unique
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: for a village outside of Kampala, Uganda. But now they
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: have hundreds of kids from the village that are skating
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: and staying out of trouble and kind of, they, they
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: teach them stuff about climate change and whatnot at, uh,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: through the woman that runs the skate park, Cynthia. And
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: so it was just kind of really cool. It was
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: just really, yeah, it was really interesting to talk to this, this, this,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: these kids in these village about skating and what it
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: means to them. And then kind of just see like
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: how happy they are at the skate park. It was awesome.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think, oh, the one other one that
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: stands out is back to Kenya. There's, I linked up
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: with an organization that helps There's a lot of homeless
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: street kids, homeless young children without any parents in Nairobi.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: A couple of different reasons. One, their parents often kick
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: them out and it could be like they stole something
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: or they simply just have too many kids and they
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: can't feed them all. And so sometimes they'll just kick
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: one of the kids out and say, go to the city,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: try to make money. But these kids are usually like
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: maybe seven, eight, nine, 10 years old. Then they grow up.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: So there's some older ones there, but there's a lot
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: of kids in that seven to 15 range living on
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: the streets in Nairobi, making money by begging and other ways.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: And they all have become for the most part, hooked
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: on drugs specifically. One of the major ones is they,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: they have, they, hold a towel in their hand that's
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: covered in gasoline and they'll constantly be sniffing it throughout
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: the day because it helps keep off the hunger and
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: also helps them sleep at night. So you can imagine
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: it's like eight-year-old kids are essentially sniffing gasoline all day,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: which is quite a sad sight to see. But this,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I linked up with this organization that is doing amazing things, helping,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: it's called Treat Kids of Nairobi. And He is essentially,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: he does a, he feeds them a lot. He has
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: feeding programs throughout the week, but he also will help
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: relocate them to their parents. So the one day I
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: was there, we were taking this, this, I think he
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: was about a nine-year-old boy. They were getting him cleaned
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: up to bring him back to his family. So they
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: brought him to get new clothes. They got a haircut.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: They fed him a proper meal. Then the next day
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: they were going to drive out to his parents' village
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: and demand his parents that they have to take his
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: kid back no matter what he did. Because at the
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: end of the day, It's still like it is illegal
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: in Kenya to just kick a little kid out to
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: the street. So he goes and demands the parents take
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: the kid back. And if they say no, he'll get
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: the cops involved and he'll get the cops to make
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: make them parents take the kids back. So he's kind
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: of fighting that fight against the street kids in Nairobi.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: And which was just like you see homeless people in
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of cities, but you just don't see the
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: number of homeless children that I think you see in
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: East Africa and Nairobi. So it was quite something to
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: see that, but also an organization that was working to
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: help them out.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I also saw some videos of yours highlighting some artistry
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: and artists.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the people there are incredibly creative and
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: they find ways to do it and maybe they find
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: more unconventional ways to do it. unique ways to do
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: it that maybe aren't done as much in a place
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: where there's more available resources. So, yeah, I went actually
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: one of the guys from the skate park on the
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: side worked at an art shop outside of Kampala. So
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: they had created an art studio. They were making all
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: this different, incredible artwork. And it's just like you would
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: it's I think that it's always funny, like with a
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: place like that, you you can walk by and if
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: the front door is closed, it just looks like this
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: small tin shack in a village. And then if you
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: go inside, it's amazing artwork all over the place. And
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: like they're just making these incredible things inside. So it
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: was really cool. It was really cool to interview them.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: And yeah, they were right outside Kampala as well. So
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: that was a good one.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I also loved the skating video that just went out
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: recently on Instagram. There's a man, yeah, the skate, skate,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: long distance skating.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Or street skating. He's a, he's a professional inline rollerblader
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: from Uganda. He's like, I'd say there's only two or
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: three in the whole country. So not many, but yeah,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: you can, I was talking to him. So especially when
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: he started in 2016, there was almost... No one that
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: was really doing it. He was one of the first
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: people to be a professional skater. And so you can
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: imagine like, even still today, the looks he gets from
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: people are like, a lot of people weren't, were not
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: that supportive of him, obviously to start. So he's, he's
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: made a lot of progress for just how people look
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: at inline skating, but he's, yeah, he's, I think he's,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: it's not an Olympic sport yet in line rollerblading, but
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: he's in the biggest competitions. He's won, I think some
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: gold medals and he's won quite a few international competitions.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: and skated all over the world, whether it be in
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: track for, and they do actually like half marathon and
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: marathon road races on rollerblades, which I didn't know. I
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, I guess that makes sense. But so
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: he's won a few of those as well. He actually,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know when he did this, but he's rollerbladed
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: from Kampala to Rwanda's capital, I'm spacing on the name
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: of it, and just to kind of bring awareness to
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: rollerblading in the area and to kind of get more
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: people involved in it. But he also, aside from just
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: being a professional roller skater himself, has started a club
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: to help all these different young kids in the area
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: that want to skate. It, one, gives them a safe
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: place to do it. I think he said he has
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: about five different safe locations set up because A lot
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: of the times, I think the biggest problem in a
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: place like Kampala is just finding a place to safely rollerblade.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Not that like one, you have to find a paved road,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: which is there's plenty of paved roads, but they're so,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: so busy. And it would just be like as a
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: little kid learning how to rollerblade, it'd be too dangerous
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: to try to skate on most of those roads there.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: There is so many motorcycles going by and kind of
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: right on the edge of the road that one maybe
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: wrong turn by a kid trying to learn how to
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: skate would be would be bad. So He has found
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: these different places for the kids to learn how to skate.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: He provides them with coaching and is kind of giving
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: them a path for kids that want to be professional
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: skaters to learn from someone that's done it, to get
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: access to international competitions and giving them the opportunity to
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: do that. Because even if it's tough, I think, there
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: just to get access to those international competitions, then also
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: the funding for it. And so he's been amazing helping
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: these kids figure out a way to go through that.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: And I think he said, yeah, four of them, four
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: of the best ones are going to Singapore later this
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: year for a competition. So yeah, it's really cool what
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: he's doing there. But even him as the kind of like,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: he's the best skater in Uganda. He's still skating on like...
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: roads that have speed bumps and cars and like not,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: it's not a track, it's a road. And he has
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: to deal with speed bumps and go up. I was
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: watching him practice. He goes up on the sidewalk or
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: he goes around the speed bump or he slows down.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Like even for the best skater in Uganda, it's the,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: they don't have the facilities for something like that. So
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: you can imagine even just that disadvantage versus someone from
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: a country where there's like an actual skating track or
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: like a professional facility to do it in. So yeah,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: what he's doing is awesome there, though. I love it. Yeah,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: it really is cool.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: So throughout the journey, you have encountered stories that range
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: greatly from hardships to grief to joy and community. What's
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: next for you?
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so in Paris now, trying to find stories here,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's slightly skewing back to maybe stuff that's
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: more lighthearted or kind of not... As serious as the
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: street kids or the women running away from FGM. I
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: do still want to do that. And I think that's
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: awesome story to tell. And I love working with those people.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: And that's probably the most fulfilling. But I don't think
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: it will be the only thing Human Project does. I
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: think it will, at the end of the day, be
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a combination of both serious stories
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: and more fun, lighthearted stories. So yeah, I'm working on
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: scheduling a lot of things here. The first, the only
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: thing I've filmed so far is actually, it's called Booher.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: It's the, they, the, the guys dress up as a knight,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: full knight gear and fight each other with real swords. The, yeah,
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: it's crazy. So they, the, the gear, the metal gear
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: weighs like 60 pounds. The helmet alone is about 30 pounds.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. They smash the crap out of
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: each other. Like as hard as you can swing a sword,
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: any part of the body. And then they'll get on
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: top of each other and their head, but each other,
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: they're hitting each other with shields in the face. It's crazy.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: It was crazy to see. So that's, I think a
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: lighter hearted one, but yeah, starting to line step up
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: here in Paris and TVD exactly like where I go,
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: but I do know the goal longer term for human
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: project while I enjoy traveling and I like being on
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: the road, the goal one day would be to have
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: like a proper home base headquarters in one city. And
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: then if, as I'm able to grow it out into
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: an actual company with other people and not just me,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: it would be sending people to all different places around
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: the world to find these kind of awesome, amazing people,
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: communities and stories and telling them all through the human brand.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: And then, and then it wouldn't all be dependent on
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: me trying to be in different cities, different countries all
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: the time. And there'd be, there'd be a real team
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: doing it, capturing these stories. And that's the place I
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: hope to get Human Project to one day. But yeah,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: it's 10 months in. So if we get there, which
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: I will one day, that's way down the road. So
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: for now, it's me and a camera on the road,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: doing the interviews, doing the editing, finding the stories, and
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: just making this work until I'm able to grow it
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: into something more.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: What is it about sharing people's stories that fulfills you
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: so much and lights you up?
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: You know, I think.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Especially for the groups that maybe haven't had a way
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: to tell their story before and just giving someone that opportunity,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: that's exciting. For someone that wants to share what they're
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: doing or wants to share their story and I give
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: them a platform to do that, whether it be for one, ten,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: a hundred people to see, it doesn't matter. I think
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: just seeing the joy someone gets out of sharing their
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: story in a unique way or just kind of seeing
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: the joy someone gets out of someone being interested in
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: their story, it's, yeah, it feels good and it's nice
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: to do and I really love it. So that's probably
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: where I get the fulfillment from it.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: And I bet people are excited, like you said.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Or shy, maybe some are shy and they don't want
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: to as much, but I think it's so wonderful to
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: be heard and to share your story with other people
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: and it's a form of connection for all of us.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a shyness, but I think I'd Well,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: like I always tell them, it's like, look, this isn't running.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: It's not one running loop. Like you need to say
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: it again, say it again. We need to cut it
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: up into pieces. I'm going to cut it up into
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: pieces and take the best part of what you say anyways.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: So I think I'm getting better at that as well.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: And kind of like just learning how to coach people.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Cause it's their story and I don't know how to
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: tell their story, but I do know how to tell
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: them in a way that comes across better for a
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: 60 second video. And it's, I'm getting better at coaching
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: people on how to do that. Like for example, right.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Cause you, it's not like, you know, if I, my
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: name is Jack versus just saying Jack, like I want
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: the person to say the full thing to give context
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: to the story. So it's, it's, yeah, I'm just constantly
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: trying to work on coaching people and getting getting the
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: best out of them because it can be nerve-wracking if
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: you've never had a camera in your face before like
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: it is new and talking to a camera versus talking
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: to a person it's different and sometimes it takes a
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: couple tries but people want to get the story out
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: and and it's it's exciting to work with them for
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: that for sure.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Well congratulations on the project and i'm really looking forward
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: to seeing where it goes and i'm sure as it
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: builds people will continue to reach out and you'll find
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: more and more stories and yeah Best of luck with
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: it all.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Awesome. I appreciate you having me on. This was great
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: to talk about. So thank you. Thank you for doing it.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you for taking the time. Where can we
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: find you online? Where can we learn about people's stories
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: and watch and see these videos?
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the best place would be Instagram. So
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: you've heard me say human a hundred times, but it's H-U-N,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: there's no A, and then underscore project. So H-U-M-N underscore project.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: You'll see the blue U on the Instagram. And yeah,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: that's me. So that's the best place to find it.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Perfect. We will include the links below. Thank you so much, Jack,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: for joining the podcast today. It's been a pleasure.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me on. It was
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: a great time.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Shout out to the Overland Journal podcast listeners for tuning
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: in to today's episode. We hope you enjoyed it and
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: we'll see you next time.