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Cardinals finalize Opening Day roster, Victor Scott makes team · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: We made it to Bernie, we made it through spring training.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: At Sunday, March twenty third, I believe it's the third
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: inning across the street at Roger Deane Stadium.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I am here at the Roger Deine Media workroom.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: I'm Katie Wu, He's Bernie Nicholas, and this is Cardinals territory.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: We have a lot to break down. Cardinals finalize their
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: opening day roster today. They know the twenty six players
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: that are going to be leaving camp with them tomorrow morning.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: And like I said, a lot to talk about. Bernie. First,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: welcome back. Thank you so much.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: You're one of my favorite guests, and I find it
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: very fitting that we are talking about this episode because
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: there's just so much to expand on.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Well. I'm just thrilled to be able to work with you,
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: so thank you for the invite. And I'm going to
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: tell our viewers something I told you before we went
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: on the air. As an honor to you. I'm wearing
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: your Northern California roots. I'm wearing a San Francisco Seals
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: vintage cap. The year this cap, the season of this cap,
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Joe DiMaggio was on the team, so I thought it
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: was only I had to do something to honor San
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Francisco Bay area, so I love it very vintalage.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Anytime we bring in the area on the show, it's
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: a good show for me. Could not be farther from
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: San Francisco. Right now, I will say, I'm a Florida girl.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I like it here.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: I love the weather. Being by the ocean is wonderful.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I am ready to get to Saint Louis. This this
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: has just been the last week grueling. But I think
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: with all the back and forth on what the Cardinals
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: are going to do and what they're not going to do,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: what is their roster going to look like? They finally
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: announced that today, So let's just dive into that right now.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Bator Scott will be the opening day centerfielder.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Ali Marmal said today this is one of many moves
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: that the Cardinals finalized. And I told you this before
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: we started the show, Bernie, I knew today was just
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: going to be a lot because it was a show
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: and go. For those of you are not familiar with
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: the tea with that term, that means the team shows
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: up about two hours before first pitch. You do your drills,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: but there's not a lot of like VP, there's not
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of on field stuff. You literally show up,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: go play a baseball game, get out of here. So
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: once I saw that on the schedule, I was like,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: there is going to be a lot more than just
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: a couple of moves. The first one the most pressing
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Victor Scott opening day center fielder Matthew Libertore is the
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: team's fifth starter. The Cardinals will implement a six man
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: rotation starting April sixteenth.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Stephen Matts will serve in long relief until then, when
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: they implement that six man rotation, Matts will join.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: The reason that they're doing this is because the Cardinals
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: have three off days in the first three weeks of
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: the season, and then when they start again from April
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: eleventh to I believe the first week of May, they
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: just have one off day on April twenty fourth. So
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: while I'm not a six man rotation girl, I do
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: understand the logic here, and I'm very glad we'll get
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: to this that if they put someone in there, it
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: was going to be Libby or Matts. What this means
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Michael McGreevey is going to start in Memphis, and that's
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: not something I love. Although I understand and that decision.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: He was cut over the weekend. Michael Siani has made
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: the roster. I know for a very long time we
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: talked about it being Victor Scott the second or Michael Sianni.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: It's going to be both. Victor Scott will start most
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: of the games in center field. Michael Sianni will be
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: the fourth outfielder defensive replacement. What that meant for Jose
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: for Mean was that he ended up being the final cut,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: despite being told earlier in the week he was going
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: to make the roster as the utility man. The Cardinals
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: ultimately decided yesterday and this morning that they denied need
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: a utility man and that they were going to go
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: with Sianni still on the roster. That means the Cardinals
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: do not have a backup shortstop for Mean and Burreer.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Jose Burrow were optioned to Memphis this morning, and Zach
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Thompson will start the year on the injured list. But
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: we knew that was coming. He has not really thrown
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: all spring. So that's where we are at with the
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Cardinals news. Uh, sorry, Bertie, I just got ready for you.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Hi did that there?
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: You go already? You're already you're degien Amy for assignment. Okay,
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: all right, I'll pack my bags. All right, We're good.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks, Yeah, a lot to unpack here. Where Where should
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: we start? Bernie? What are your thoughts about the roster?
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's kind of sad in a way
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: that I was pleasantly surprised they made the right decision
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: to have Victor Scott's start and center. I mean, I
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: think I always feel bad that I have such a
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: crummy opinion of their decision making process, like I come
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: to expect them to do the wrong thing too many times.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: So it's a glorious day as far as I'm concerned,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: because you know, first of all, Victor Scott, as you
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: know man, he earned it. He did everything, and he
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: would look he worked all off season to get better.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's one thing I've heard some fans say.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: It's like, well, you know, he had a good spring
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: last year, and we all know he wasn't ready, so
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: I'm not too impressed with the spring. He was a
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: whole different hitter this spring. He had all kinds of
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: power in his game, unlike last spring. So and it
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: looks like he's improved defensively, but anyway, he clearly earned it,
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: and to me, it was like a like a no
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: contest unless they were fully committed to playing nutpart center field.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: I don't think either one of us thought that they
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: were going to do that. So I'm just really happy
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: for that. I'm really happy for him. And you know,
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: they've had they had a lousy performance collectively from their
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: left handed hitters last year, and they have most of
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: those guys back, and maybe Victor Scott can be kind
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: of an X factor. Maybe he can provide some impact
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: among that or you know, from within that left handed
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: hitting group and give them more outfield offense. So but
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: he deserved it. I'm glad they made the right call.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: I'm glad to and I am also surprised. All spring long,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I think we're just conditioned to expect the decision that
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't make a lot of sense this one. I would
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: have had a really hard time justifying the Cardinals not
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: taking Victor Scott for all the reasons he said.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: He's earned it.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: He had a spectacular he's been in Jupiter since November,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: working tirelessly with John Jay. Really took everything to heart
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: and earned every single bit of this opportunity and I
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: know for a while the Cardinals were kind of toying
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: with the idea of new bar and centerfield to get
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: all the reps to their lefty bats, and they were
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: wondering would that be fair to Victor if he's going
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: to sit the bench half the time. But what Victor
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: did was he forced them to make the right decision
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: because of his play, especially over the last week. I mean,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: those three homers in the last six days or so
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: on the games that he was playing. I think that
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: just solidified the amount of work he did, how he
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: showed up every day, one of the first people here,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: one of the last to leave, so definitely deserved it.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I'm relieved they made the right decision there. It's one
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: of the things I liked about their news today. Another
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: thing I liked was Matthew Libertor making the rotation, which
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: is somewhat of a hot take, but hear me out
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Bernie to Ollie Marmel today and it was an extensive,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: like thirty minute conversation. Obviously lots to break down. I
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: understood why the Cardinals are implementing a six man rotation.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I did not understand if they would if they did
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: it in the beginning of the season based on the
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: off days like we talked about. But it does make
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: sense given how the second half of April again, that
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: six men rotation will go into effect on April sixteenth,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: how that's going to look. So I like Libby there
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: because Libby has also had a fantastic Spring and when
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: you're looking at how to fortify your internal starting pitching depth, the.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Cardinals do not have a lot of that.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: And if they're going to try to turn Libby into
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: a starter one more time, they need to do it
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: exactly how they prefaced it. Ollie Marmal said, this is
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: not a Libby is our fifth starter. He is not
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: going to come in, go two times through the rotation
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: and then we're going to, you know, if he doesn't
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: perform well, where you're gonna yank him out. I want
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: to clear this up right now. Matthew Libertore is going
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: to pitch for us every five or every six days,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: and we're going to give him a long run in
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: this rotation to see what that looks like. That is
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: the right thing to do for long term organization development
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: and long term player development. And Libby, just like Victor,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: based on his Spring performance, earned it on the contrary,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I hate it for Michael McGreevey, who was just as
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: a if not the most effective Cardinals picture in camp.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: He had a one O eight ERA two mistakes all
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: spring two solo homers, did not walk about or struck
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: out twelve looked dominant, But he is, unfortunately the byproduct
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: of the depth situation.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: And when we talked to.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Ali about why they went six man and the different
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: decisions with Matts and McGreevy, you know, they felt like
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: they didn't have any death that was going to be
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: ready right now in case someone got hurt, and McGreevey
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: needed to go to TRIPAA to serve that role. I
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: don't like the decision, but I understand it, and I
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: think that's a really difficult message for McGreevy to hear.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: He's a twenty twenty twenty one first round pick. He
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: did everything they asked him to and more. Unfortunately, he's
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: just a byproduct of circumstance here. I expect we'll see
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: him very soon. But with veterans, you can't move. You
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: can't move michaelists, you can't move Matt's off the roster.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: At least McGreevy was kind of destined to be in
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Memphis to start the year, which is unfortunate, but again
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: something I do understand.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand that too. My first thing when I
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: heard I was on KMAS with Tom Ackerman and Sports
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: on a Sunday morning and he was basically relaying the
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: roster information as it happened. And when I when I
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: heard Liberture in the rotation, you know, my first thought,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: here I go again. It's like I expect the Cardinals
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: to like, even when they make a good call, they'll
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: they'll somehow diminish it somehow. So what I first thought was, Oh,
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: my gosh, they're going to do the thing where they're
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: calling him a starter, but he's not really going to
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: be a starter. He's going to be that sixth guy,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: and which means it's they're going to do the same
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: thing all over again. Oh you know, hey, let me
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: you're a reliever. No, no, you're going to start, well
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: you relieve, start, relieve, start, are you gonna oh can
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: you do this game today? One time last year, as
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: you know, uh, they gave him a bullpen start, like
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: the night after he pitched in Reef and they were
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: just moving him around all the time. He's never gotten
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: a full opportunity to start the big leagues. He really hasn't,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: so I thought that I thought that they were going
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: to put him in the role that they gave the Mats.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: So it's no disrespect to Stephen Matts, who's out a
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: good spring. But for the Cardinals to really support live
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: Be Libertore, sorry, can't talk. For them to really support Libertore,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: they had to do it this way or it was
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: just a bunch of window dressing. So I'm uh, I
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: give them credit for that. There's in fact, it makes
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: a lot of sense to have Matts as a swingman.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: As far as McGreevy, no, I'm you and i'd like
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: the were one percent in agreement on this. I do understand.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: I don't like it, but we also know and I
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: know we'll get into this. You know, we also know
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: that there's some concern, justifiably so, over Sonny Gray. We
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: also know of you know, Polanta for whatever reason, you know,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: had a rough spring. Stephen matt S, as we all know,
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: is vulnerable to injuries. I guess I can name a
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: couple other things, but one way the other, McGreevy will
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: get an opportunity. It's just a question of when it
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: could be early, but he'll get an opportunity, so all
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: is not lost on that. And and I do understand
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: the logic and them having a guy ready to go
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: down in Memphis that they can pop in whenever they need.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: And it's important you look at teams like the Dodgers
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: and the Brewers last year.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Who went through like starting pitch after starting pitcher.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: If the Cardinals, god forbid, have an injury, who's ready
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: to go, We're going to see Michael McGreevey at some
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: point this year when we're gonna seem for extended amount
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: of time that he was not rewarded with an opening
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: day roster spot. I think is disappointing obviously, but in
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: the grand scheme of how this one hundred and sixty
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: two game season is going two.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Unfold, I get it.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I would again I would have loved to see him
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: up here, and he certainly pitched and was deserving of
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: the opportunity. But this whole depth situation is also comes
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: into play with why the Cardinals are doing a sort
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: of six man rotation. And I don't have to figure
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: out a better way how to write this because it's
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: not going to make any sense. But if you start
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: with Matts in the rotation and the Cardinals put Libby
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: in the bullpen like we talked about, and it's kind
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: of that similar here we go again. Role only are
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: you not doing what's best for the long term, which
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: is Matthew Libertor Steven Mas's contract is up at the
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: end of the year.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: They're not going to bring him back.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Not only is that like best, not best, what's for
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: long term? But let's say someone gets hurt. Let's say
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: one of those five of the five projected veterans, also
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Polante in there, even though he's not one. If they
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: go down, you only have Libby, who's all of a
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: sudden back in relief, and he's not going to be
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: able to be built back up. And it's the same
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: problem we saw last year. Where As this makes sense,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: and if someone gets hurt in that group of six,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals either go to Michael McGreevy or you go
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: back to a five man rotation and you wait for
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: another opportunity. So it protects your depth because outside of McGreevy,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: they don't have any Zach Thompson starting the year on
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: the injured list and Drew ram Is off the forty Man.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: He's also hurt Gordon Grissefo ramping back up to Coole.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Robi Nasty has not pitched over forty innings in the
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: last two years, So it makes sense.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I was glad to see the Cardinals make two decisions
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: that made a lot of sense. Victor Scott makes sense.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Matthew Libertor if they're going to do it the way
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: that they said, makes sense. So I do feel I
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: feel good about those two decisions.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: But okay, let me let me uh, let me stop
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: you right there, because I have a question for you.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: And I guess I could take off this cap and
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: like put put a tinfoil cap on. Okay, you know, Yeah,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: So I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go little mini conspiracy theory.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: And I'm not a conspiracy cook. I'm not. But I
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: have to believe, and I don't know that you or
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: anyone else could convince me otherwise. I have to believe
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: heim Bloom has something to do with Liberator going into
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: the rotation if they ask him for his opinion. Heim
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Bloom loves Liberator. I mean, they drafted him in Tampa.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: He's been a Liberatory guy. I mean, I remember talking
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: to Mark Talkin, who covered the Rays or he still does,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: said like, oh gosh, they love Liberator. They're they're they're
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: thinking they're gonna regret making this trade, but they just
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: had to do it. They really wanted Randy Rosarina. But man,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: they're they're like, oh, we hate to give him up.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: Heim Bloom loves him. Now listen, if there, this is
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: my question for you, because you're on the ground there,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: you've been on the ground there in Jupiter, to what
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: extent do you think heim Bloom justs in general had
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: influence in maybe some of the final roster decisions. You know,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: did Moe bring him in the loop on that? In
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: your opinion?
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: I don't think so, because there are a lot of
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: decisions that we'll get into over the Sorry I got
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: a text editor, but that don't make a lot of
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: sense in the in establishing the long term player development
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: of the multiple players we've talked about that Heim is
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: hoping to either inherit or have already made a decision
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: on before he takes over.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: This looks like the rest of the moves.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Again, I don't want to diminish the two good moves
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: that they two good decisions. It looks like a roster
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: and an organization that is once again stuck in the middle.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: So I do think that maybe Heim has some sort
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: of play with Libertorre. And look, he's he was a
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: starting pitching prospect. He came highly touted from the Tampa
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Bay Rays, who do player development really well.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: And when you think about.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Starting pitching the free agent market, it's not sustainable to
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: continue looking that way. So I get why the Cardinals
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: are looking at every single option in their current system
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: to make sure they're not skipping over anything.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: This is the year to do it.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: But the other decisions suggests that the Cardinals are not
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: sure what they want the rest of the year to
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: look like. Because they have such a redundant roster. There
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: are a ton of holes and a ton of log jams,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: and the consequence the other moves that trickle down from
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Victor making the roster and Libby making the rotation has
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: made it really hard for the Cardinals to guarantee playing
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: time to Delicious, went out playing time to Walker Gorman
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: and to an extent, Lara's Newbar. And that's where I
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: really want to get into, and I think we'll have
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: a ton to say, but first we got to hear
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: from Spot Antago ft fam.
• 15:56
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• 15:59
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• 16:02
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• 16:12
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• 16:15
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• 16:20
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• 16:23
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• 16:27
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• 16:28
  Speaker 3: That are customed for each and every one of your dogs.
• 16:31
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• 16:36
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• 16:40
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• 16:46
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• 16:49
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• 16:52
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• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Slash Foulque foul.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Wow bo Scott, cute dog, Penelope, What a cameo, all right, yeah,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: that was from our friends Spotantango. Now, Bernie, here's here's
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: where I'm getting a little confused. If Victor Scott is
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: going to play every day, and this is something Ollie
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Marmle has said, you said today, you know he's gonna
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: get a run out there in center field. They might
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: every now and then mix a new bar start, but
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: for all purposes going forward, Victor Scott's are starting centerfielder.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: How are you going to get the rest of the
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: advats that you need? If this is how your lineup
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: is gonna like, just schedule out Scott and center, Jordan
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Walker and right, new bar and left right, I think
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: we can say to say that's a good opening day outfield.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Mason went it short, Brendan Donovan at second, Nolan Arnatto
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: at third, Contraras at first, Herara slash Pa has catching.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: You're gonna have Gorman as your DH because he's gonna
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: play every day, or you're gonna have Burleson as your
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: DH and Gorman's gonna sit the bench.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: You have Michael.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Sioni coming in as the fourth outfielder, defensive replacement, and
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I do think there is value there. I think clubs
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: really value there. In Sianni has all the skill set there.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: But if Siani's coming in as a fourth outfielder, Jordan
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Walker's not taking at bats late in games, that's the
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: logical sub right, they drop the bench. Okay, that makes sense,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: right handed bat, But how are you going to get
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: at bats for Gorman, Burlison and Donovan every single day?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: And we asked Olie Marmel that and he said, it's
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: a fair question. This roster's not perfect. I'll say so
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: because they have so many rebundant rosters. They have won two, three,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: four or five six lefties, no backup shortstop, two of
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the exact same players in Sianni and Scott, And the
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: whole preface of this season was consistent playing time for
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Gorman and Walker. And now with the way that this
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: roster is constructed, I don't see that happening.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: You know, you get a headache thinking about this stuff,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: you really do. I think one of the reasons, you know,
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: I took a break from writing for a while because
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: I was just kind of like, I just, you know,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to write all this stuff and it's one
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: big puzzle, you know, on my laptop screen it's just like,
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: oh my no, I can't let's move this guy here.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: What do they do there? I mean, yeah, I think
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: there's a real good chance Burlison doesn't get as many
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: ad bets as he did last year. Actually, it's a
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: really good chance he doesn't. And they're gonna be really
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: creative with him, especially if they want to get Donovan
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: a lot of starts at second base and have Gorman
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: d H, which you know makes sense because that gets
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: gets Donovan's bat in the lineup on a fairly regular basis.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: In addition, and then moving him around and I guess
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: he's going to be the backup short stop too, So
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: I think they'll take care of Gorman. We know Walker
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: is going to be out there. You know, Burley is
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: the one I wonder about a little bit. I think Donovan,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: they'll they'll find ways to spread him all over the place.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Burlison played little first base DH maybe the occasional appearance
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: in left field. I don't know, but I do wonder.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: I do wonder with this log jam, and I know
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: what the Cardinals have said, and I know what their
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: intention was, and they couldn't go full quote reset because
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: of the hour and out of situation. But the one
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: thing they definitely had left was well, we're gonna play
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: Walker no matter what. We're gonna play Gorman no matter what.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: And I guess now you can add Victor Scott to
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: that list. So there's three things that do represent a
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: reset among the position players. Well, also Herrera and pahes
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: a catcher, although they played a lot last year. So
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: what I wonder and I've had some fans ask me this,
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: and these are like really reasonable minded fans. They said, well, listen,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: if they're trying to win, you know what happens if
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: they kind of wind up back at square one where
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: Gorman is just flailing, like in the middle of May
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: or late May or early June, where he's just it's
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: just a mess, or where Walker who has had obviously
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: because of the injury especially, he's just had a rough
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: rough spring. Are they Are they truly going to remain
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: committed to playing each one of those guys to the
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: point where they're going to get five hundred, five hundred
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: and fifty played appearances? Is it is it fair to
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: ask that? Is it fair to wonder about that? Do
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: you see them changing their stance on this? If those
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: two guys are having a really bad time. Again.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: You're spot on, and I think that's the biggest question
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: for the Cardinals this year and something that we've you know,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: alluded to spring numbers or spring numbers. I know that
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Gorman and Walker have not looked great. And when we
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: talked about this with Ali, he didn't, you know, he
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: didn't discredit it. He said, yeah, this is this is
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: valid conversations. And I think when you lead the opening
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to a transition year or whatever the heck we're supposed
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: to call it, not a rebuilt though, Uh that when
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: you're guaranteeing playing time for players but you're still trying
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: to win, how long does that guarantee extend?
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: And that's what we're trying to figure out.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: And this is something that all I said, Hey, this
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: is gonna look different in thirty sixty ninety days. We're
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: going to have to have to constantly be reevaluating the strategy.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: But for an.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Organization whose goal was to take a step back and
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: focus on players, and that was the sided reasoning why
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: they did not spend money minus the two million dollars
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: to fill Mayton like two weeks ago, and cut payroll.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: It again goes back to.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Be in Moe's middle right to use your trademark phrase.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: This is a team that is trying to develop its
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: homegrown players for the next wave of the next front office,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: but also trying to win right now because they just
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: can't give it up. And it's so fair to question
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: if Walker and Gorman are going to have consistent advats
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: if they start to struggle, when before we were told
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: that that would be the case. No matter what, I
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: no longer get the sense that it.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Is non sen the problem will be solved, like the
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Cardinals will live happily ever after, at least for twenty
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: twenty five. If if Gorman and Walker can do be
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: close to what they were, let's say, as a tan
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: have been twenty twenty three. You know, they combined for
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: like a four to fifty seleven excuse me, four to
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: fifty seven slugging percentage and a seven to ninety three ops.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's really really good work for two very
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: young hitters at that time. Last year was a disaster
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: a three eighty nine slug six thirty eight combined ops.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: So that's the question, are they going to get the
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: twenty three version of those guys or close to it?
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Or are they going to get something considerably less than that,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Maybe not quite as bad as twenty twenty four, but
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: still not good enough. Right which tandem is going to
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: show up? There so much hinges on those guys, And
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: it's not all on them, obviously, but gosh, so much
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: hinges on Walker and goremet, not just one or the other,
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: but both of them as a duo, because they could
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: elevate this offense in a significant way, or this offense
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: could be on the way to crashing again if they
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: flop again. Yeah, a lot of pressure.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: On them, it is, And that was the whole point
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: of the start of the season was that they wouldn't
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: have that pressure to perform. That if they started April
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: and they slumped, or if they came out and their
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: springs were not good, they wouldn't feel the pressure to
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: perform every day because the Cardinals were going to take
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: a step back from competing.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: But now you're.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Thinking that Jordan Walker is not coming into opening day saying, hey,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I had a rough spring, I had a sideline a
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: little bit. They kept a guy on the roster and
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Michael Sianni, who's going to come in as a defensive
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: replacement If I can't hit. You think that's not already
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: compounding the pressure Again, look at Nolan Gorman. You think
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: he's not coming in here saying, hey, I struck out
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: like forty percent of the time last season.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: My spring has not looked good. If I don't hit.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: There is an established contact with a bit more power
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: this year, and Alec Burlison from the left side, and
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: he's going to take my spot if I don't produce.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: So no, where the stress is coming from is no
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: longer about the team making the postseason winning every game.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: But there's a different amount of pressure now because even
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: if they don't perform for personal reasons, they're still going
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: to lose their spots.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I feel.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: So I just wonder again, and this has been something
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: that we've talked about since the whole transition plan was unveiled.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Can they stick to it?
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: And how difficult is it going to be to kind
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: of ride both waves, Because I'm not suggesting that you
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: can't develop players with your roster and win it at
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: the same time, But the way that they are going
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: about this right now, with this opening roster construction, makes
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: that difficult.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'd love to give them the benefit of doubt,
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: but I can't from the stand, especially with Walker, because
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: as you know, man, he got off to the really
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: good start as a rookie, you know, the hitting streak
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: and everything, and I know he tailed off a little bit,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: but they sent him out before the end of April
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three. And it's kind of like, wait a.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Minute, now, it wasn't involve in the air birding. He wasn't,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: but on the ground.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: I know, and it said, okay, that was I understood it,
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: but I still thought it was weird they were. And
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: I know Jeordan Walker looked terrible at to plate last season.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: I get it. I can't defend anything about his performance.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I mean him chasing those low and away pitches. You know,
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: it was a mess boy. They sure got him out
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: of here quick. And then when John Moselek like in
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: effect intervened and said, well, we're bringing him up, and
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: then Ali said, well, he's only going to play against
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: left handed pitching, and which made no sense and was
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: one of Ali's weird things that I still don't understand.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: And I talked to him about it and I told him,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: I said that, well, I still don't understand it. So
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: who's to say that kind of push pull won't happen again.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: You know, uh is John Mosiah like gonna intervene in
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: some decisions if he disagrees with some decisions, and by
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: the way, all front offices do that. Sure's there's a
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: tendency among Cardinals fans and think like this is the
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: only place in the Major League it happens or whatever.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: In fact, sometimes it's good, like in the case last
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: year with Jordan Walker, it was good that Mosea like
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: intervened and said, Okay, you're not gonna play him, We're
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: I'm putting them back to Memphis because he's got to
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: play every day. So I just I never trust. I
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: just never trust what they say. I never trust that
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: it's going to be followed up firmly and convincingly with
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: their actions. And I probably would think Gorman would get
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: a little more lead. I don't know. Maybe I even
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: shouldn't say that, I shouldn't even try to handicap it.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: But Gorman, man, I just hope for his sake, I
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: hope he gets off to a good start, you know,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: because who the heck wants to go through this all season?
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: The Cardinals don't those two players don't. I know, you
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: would probably like to write about some other things, you know.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: So it's so here come the Cardinals.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, personally victimized by the saying the Cardinals giving
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: you trust issues I know I have and I can't
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: blame your Cardinals fans this. I'm trying to see the
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: vision and the credit to Allie who has said, you know, yeah, this.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Is gonna be difficult.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: He's like, but I'm committed to doing everything I possibly
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: can to make sure these players get the necessary amount
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: of at bats. Is Nolan Gorman going to see six
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: hundred played appearances now? Probably not? Can you see five hundred?
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: So maybe this is just because it doesn't really make
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of sense on paper. The overall roster construction. Again,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I think it's redundant. I also think that this is
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: something that is being downplayed. But not having a backup
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: shortstop is put so much pressure.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: On Mason Win.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: And it's not to say that Mason Win can't handle
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: plane every day, but when when was the last shortstop
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Bernie or you go with stats and numbers, plose last
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: short stop they play one hundred and sixty two games?
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Come on, you're gonna need him to fill in. Donnie
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: can do it again.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Donnie can do everything.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: But you're putting a lot of pressure on a guy
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: who is going is entering his what second full season.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I don't love that there is no true backup behind
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Mason Win.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Well, there's no doubt about that. I I agree. And
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: here's the thing with Mason Win. It's it's again the
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: way the Cardinals do certain things. It puts me in
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: a position where it almost seems like I'm criticizing Mason Win.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: And that's not my point at whatsoever. He's a wonderful
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: player and I think he's going to be really, really good.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: He was good last year and he faded. But that's
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: the point, you know. I know Mason Win says, you
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: know his goals. I'm gonna play one hundred sixt two games.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: You know, manager has got to say no sometimes, like
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: even Nolan Aernado. Again, not to veer off course because
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: it is related. I got respect for Nato, and I
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: think actually he may have a nice, a nice bounce back.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: I'm not getting carried away, but just a decent bounce
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: back because because of some factors that I you know,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: have identified. But so I don't rule that out anyway.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: But then again, this be nothing punitive. But does Nolan
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: I ran not really like have to play one hundred
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: and fifty games? You know, can he can he play
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: one hundred and forty one hundred and thirty five.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: He's gonna want you to get value up.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: But you know, and you know this better than I. I mean,
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: the guy is so intense. He gets tired, and you know,
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: I think he could use more rest and it might
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: be beneficial. But the same with Mason Wynn. Just because
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: he wants to play one sixty two. I mean, you
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: know someone's got to be the parents say, no, that's
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: not a good idea. I love you, but it's not
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: a good idea. And I just wonder that where they're
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: going to run him into the ground. I mean, the
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: guy just completely wore out late in the season. And
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: we can get into this if you want later, but
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: you know, and they also put the pressure of him
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: batting in the leadoff spot, which which carries a lot
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: of responsibility, a lot of responsibility, a lot of pressure,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: and frankly, for all the things he did well last season,
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: he was the wrong choice to bet leadoff. You just
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: can't have a guy with an on base percentage as
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: low as his batting leadoff. It's just it violates, like
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: every on a few principle in the book of managing.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: You know, no, your guys at the top of the
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: lineup has to get on base.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Right because you're starting every game out with one out.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: And I agree with you that he's not. They didn't
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: have a lot of options for leadoff last year. I
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: still don't know if they have any true other options.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I'd like to see what Lars new park and do
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: in the lead up.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: He stays healthy, he definitely want me so many questions, right,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, because here's the leadoff guy that when he's
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: done it. I mean, he's first of all, is you know,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: you know he's he's effective against left handed pitching, so
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: you don't have to worry about platoon. Yeah, he's better
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: against right handed pitching, but he's really good for a
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: lefty bat against lefty pitchers. And he gave you know
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: when he was right, when he was in the lineup
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: with continuity, when he was healthy enough to do it.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: I mean the number of pitches he saw during plate appearances,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: He made pitchers work. He walked at a high rate,
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: he had a high op B. Yet he's also a
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: leadoff man who can hit for some power. I'm not
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: saying he's Ricky Henderson, but he also brings some pop
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: to the leadoff spot. I mean, you could go with him, Donovan.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: If he changes things a little bit, maybe he sacrifice
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: the little powers to get on base. He can be
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: an on base machine too. So I think with all
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: the right handed pitching that major league hitters face, I
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: think any either one of those guys could fit in
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: that number one hole. But I just worry about Mason
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: Win and I'm not the next time I talked to
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Ali and I'm just gonna ask him, I'm just saying, like, what,
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: tell me why you really want to do this here?
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: And I'm gonna like, you know, click off some numbers.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna say, tell me why you really want to
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: do this? What am I missing? And I'm gonna it's
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: gonna be a sincere question because I simply don't understand it.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: I came up with a stat I just shared it
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: with you last night. This is like unbelievable. And see,
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: I'm like stealing my own material for what I was
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: going to use use myself. But it's worth it because
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: I'm part of your team here, so you know, because
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: I'm basically cuckoo and I have one I love to
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: research things and it was bugging me about Mason went
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: his on base percentage last year in the leadoff spot
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: to ninety. So I said, well, how does where does
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: that fit like in terms of Cardinals history. So what
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: I did, and it took me. It took me forty
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: five minutes or so to figure this out using stad
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: hit on a Baseball reference. I said, well, all right,
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Cardinals leadoff hitters who had at least three hundred and
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: fifty plate appearances in a season. Because I want it.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: I wanted it to be a good sample size. So
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Cardinals leadoff men who had at least three to fifty
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: PA in the top spot. Right, Mason went last year
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: and this goes back to nineteen oh one, his leadoff
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: on base percentage was the second lowest in the season
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: by a Cardinals leadoff man. The only guy that had
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: a lower OPB in the leadoff O was Julian Hoavier
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty it was two seventy five. So we're
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: talking about from nineteen oh one through twenty twenty four.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: This was the second lowest on base percentage by a
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: leadoff Cardinals' leadoff Cardinal hitter in the history of the franchise.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Small sample size.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just this the Is this the moment
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: I say I rest my case.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Or or absolutely?
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I mean you It goes back to what we've been
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: talking about, like, does this roster make a lot of sense?
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: And I think Olie Carminson putting a tough spot. I
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: definitely don't want to be like an Olli apologist here.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: It's his job to get the most out of the
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: players on his roster, and it's on the players to perform,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: but it's also on the organization to put their players in.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: The best position to succeed.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: And some they have Victor Scott absolutely, Matthew Libertore absolutely.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Do I think Sianni can can be that fourth outfielder
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: defensive replacement?
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, and you think like a postseason team isn't
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: going to look at that and want him. Do I
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: think that the Cardinals are actually increasing Sianni's value here?
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I do?
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I think it makes a lot of sense for what
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: they're trying to do long term. No, but for for
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: players like Mason. When I wonder if they're putting him
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: on the in the best position to succeed this year.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, just he was so relaxed when he hit
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: down in the lineup last year. I mean, his numbers
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: were like, actually funny, they were so great when he
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: batted eighth or ninth, right, And I just like laugh
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: at him every time I see those numbers when he
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: bet batted low in the lineup, down in the eight
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: and nine spot. I would just hope. I would just
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: hope that if Mason win is really laboring and really
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: struggling and not walking and chasing pitches and all that stuff,
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: they would just take some of the pressure off and
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: just it's not a failure, it's doing what's best for
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: the team. And also for a young hitter who's got
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: enormous potential, just just take some of the heat off.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Let him just find find his offense and do his
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: thing hitting eighth or ninth. There's no shame in hitting
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: eighth or ninth. That's the whole point. You want to
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: have a long lineup where you have guys batting late
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: in the batting order who can do some damage, who
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: can get on base, who can hit doubles, who can
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: draw walks, you know, and so I just I just
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: hope Biole he's not in one of these things like, no,
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm sticking with him.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I believe in him. Well, come on, all right, we'll see.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know how you improve your offense with the
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: leadoff man. It's got a two ninety oh PB. I
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: just don't see how that those two things seem to
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: seem to be in contradiction.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Here's my hot take, Bernie, and I don't think they'll
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: ever do it, but if they do, he heard it here.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: First on Cardinal Territory, Lars view bar lead off Yvon
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Herrera batting second.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: I like that. I like it because Herrera Carrera would
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: make you work and take some walks.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: We will gets on base and he I always I'm
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: under the camp that your number two hitter is your
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: best hitter. And Contrera's has had a freaking fantastic spring.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: He looks great, He's going to be fine. But if
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: you have new bargaining on base working counts like you
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: manage great pitch selection just knows how to get on.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: You have Herrera who can hit for contact, hip for power,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: just a true bat in the two hole, and then
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: you have Contreras and Arnatto backing that up. You're in
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: a much better spot, I think.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: And one thing I like that. And you know, some
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: people say, well, Conterra's is your best hitter, and he
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: has been. I mean he's been terrific. I was looking
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: at you know, his WRC plus the last two years,
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: eight hundred and fifty played appearances over the two years.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: He was the tenth best right handed hitter in the
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: game the last two seasons. But so you say, well,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: there'd be a case to make for batting him second.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: But aha, the difference is Herrera runs really really well
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: yep as a catcher, so you get more speed in
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: the two hold. I mean, no one saying he's Vince Coleman,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: but Herrera really moves well. For Yeah, he's very athletic.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: So in that context, yeah, Nutbar getting on base a lot.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I think Herrera get on base a lot. Herreraic can run,
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: Newpark can run. And then you have Contreras coming up there. Yeah,
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: I'm all in with you on that one, all right.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: I will make sure to slight a no under Dannel
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: diskalso's door as I'm like, hey, think about this. There's
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: gonna be absolutely the first week of the season.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: All right, Bernie, We're almost wrapping up here, and what
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: any gay man, let's see it is the bottom of
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: the fifth We got time. Will I see an inning
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: of the cards Nets exhibition game today?
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Probably not.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: That's okay because I have one hundred and sixty two
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: games to watch starting day. The last thing that we
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: should talk about today is the Cardinals did finalize their bullpen.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I forgot to talk about in the intro because there
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: are so much going on. I sent an apology to
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: my editor with the roster story. By the way, I
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: was like, so this is a mess. Sorry, it has
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: been a week. But with the bullpen, the Cardinals have
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Brian Helsley. Obviously he'll be the closer. Phil Mayton he
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: looked good. I mean, he's had a really short ramp
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: up period, but he said he didn't need a long one.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Doesn't look like he did. He'll meet on the on
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the bullpen or in the bullpen.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Ryan Fernandez, Jojo Romero, similar roles is last year, John King,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: same thing. Stephen Mattz as your long relief and a
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: huge shout out to Kyle Lahy and Chris Roycroft.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy for those guys.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: They came in and they just shoved and they have
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: different roles, different pitch sequences, different things that they can
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: do really well.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: But they were nails and talking.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I hadn't a chance to talk to Lay but talking
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: to Chris Roycroft and his story where how he worked
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: his way up here and now he has his first
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: opening day. I mean he asked me. He was like,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I heard that I have to like sit on a
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: truck and I was like, yes, you do. You will
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: be sitting on a truck and they're gonna ride you
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: around Bush Stadium.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Great.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: I think that it's such such a great moment for
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: those two guys, and I think they're going to be needed.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: There's obviously a fluidity in the bullpen. It's kind of
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: like a revolving door. But Kyle Lahy he brings the
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Cardinals innings and you need that with based on how
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: this rotation is projecting, and he has an outpitch for
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: righty's and lefties. Chris Roycroft just has nasty stuff and
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: the Cardinals are going to have to figure out what
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: their next closer, if you will, should Marian Helsley depart
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: looks like and I think Chris Roycroft is a sneaky
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: under the radar, way too early pick for that, but
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: also he's just looked great all spring. So I thought
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the bullpen and the Cardinals, I'll add that to the
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: things that they did well.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: The bullpen I think will be really good.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: I'm definitely on a team Lahy. I think he's like
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: last season was quietly valuable in the whole bullpen mix,
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: because he'd come into a game you wouldn't say, oh man,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: this guy's really good. All of this guy's really valuable.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: But what's interesting about the Cardinals bullpen last year it
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: was historically great. It wasn't just a good bullpen. It
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: was a great bullpen, and you know, in terms of
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: Cardinals franchise history and yeah, just you know, they just
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: they just locked down late leads better than anybody other,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: maybe than Cleveland. The thing of it is, I was
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: interested because, like you know, the Cardinals bullpen pitched the
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: fourth lowest amount of innings last season, which I think
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: would surprise some people in the National League. In the
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: National League, I think eighth lowest or seventh or eighth
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: lowest in the majors and because the starters gave them
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: more innings than maybe we we thought. But a guy
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: like Lahy was so valuable because when they would have
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: one of those games that was getting away and it's
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: just like, well, we can't go to our high leverage
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: guys that we're going to have a guy just try
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: to hold it there, give us a chance to come back.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: But he's also going to protect our high leverage relievers
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: so we don't have to run them into the ground.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Lay Hey did that job so terrifically well. And I
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: also noticed I don't have the numbers in front of me,
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: and I don't want to be nothing but numbers, numbers, numbers.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: When they put him in high leverage spots last season,
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: he was good. It was fine, he was good. So
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: I think he's a really underrated, valuable member of that bullpen,
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: and he will be a guy that makes sure this
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: bullpen is not basically shredded up and worn out by
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: you know, the All Star break, because that's really important
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: because if this bullpen's not somewhere in the same vicinity
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: where they were last year, it's going to be a
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: really tough year for the Cardinals.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: And given the amount of uncertainty already shaping up.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I would agree with you. There great great
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: points about lay. Those multiples are leaving value, especially early
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: in the season. But BERTI, you know, Bernie, this very
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: fitting episode for you to be back on because not
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: only did the Cardinals make some roster changes, but we
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: are making some roster changes here at Cardinal Territory. I
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: know you've been super busy. You have just announced your
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: partnership with STL Sports Hub. Great things going on there
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: from the digital side in Saint Louis Media. But you
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: are also, so to say, joining the Cardinal Territory squad
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: as a co host with me twice a week.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: When you I was joking, you know, I said, well,
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: when Katie asked me, you know, I had to like
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: really think it over, and I was, you know, pondering it.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Oh three seconds later I said, sure, you know, no,
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: this is this is exciting because I'm going to do
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: this again. I think you're great. I think you're very talented,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: and not not just your work at the Athletic and
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: you've you know, you've just had so many outstanding stories
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: and you break news, but you're a natural on this
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: platform as well. And when we talked about this last
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: time was on when you and I have ever had
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: a chance to work together. There's a chemistry there. We
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: have a good time. Our personalities kind of offset each
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: other really well. We both have a sense of humor.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: We both can get a little salty in a good
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: way when we're making fun of the Cardinals or when
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: they deserve it, of course. But anyway, this is a
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: thrill for me and I can't thank you enough for
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: you know, allow me to be part of the Cardinal
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Territory family and by extension, the Foul Territory family. Thank
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: you so much.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: No, this is so exciting, and I said after our
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: first episode together, I was like this, this makes a
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: lot of sense and hopefully we can figure something out.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad we did.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: We plan to run Cardinal Territory three times a week
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: starting during the regular season. The bad news here is
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Trevor Rosenthal is going to have to step down. He
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: will no longer have in every week role. But of
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: course he's always welcome and I'm sure we'll see him
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: and kind of pop in whenever. Just a lot of
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: things going on for him right now, but we'll have
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: him on one more time at least to just kind
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: of explain what he's doing, what's next for him. But yeah,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Cardinal Territory three times a week. My plan is to
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: run that Monday, Wednesday, Friday, but the baseball season will
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: absolutely impact that and have other plans.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: But if you ever, you ever, you ever, you can
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: bring me out of the bullpen for a third appearance
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: in a week, if you ever get in a jam.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I have no problem.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: No problem running on fumes already.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Is that a good sign when it's March twenty third
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: and you're already scrambling?
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Probably not?
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: I know, yeah, I know you need to so you
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: won't be able to cretch your breath for a long time.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: I thinks, well, yeah, definitely October. The way that the
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: season is shaping up.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: No, but we're not gonna be negative.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: We're not gonna be negative view opening day, No, Bernie,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: this will be great. So I'm really looking forward to
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: it to Cardinal Territory watchers.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: We're gonna probably do an interview.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: I've gotten some really good feedback from the player interview videos.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: If it's probably because when you have Larsnie Born pedro
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Pa has on there, they kind of do the work
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: for you. But if you are a viewer, subscriber, or
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: comment or whatever, and you have a player or person
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: or group of people that you'd like to hear from,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: drop me a note in the comment section. We'll start
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: setting up interviews and we'll plan to do that once
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: a week. So we'll have two analysis cardinals, whatever you
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: want to call them, episodes with Bernie and myself, and
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: then we'll get an interview in about once a week.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: So we are a podcast for the people here. Obviously,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: whatever you want, I will try my best to get.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: But right now where I have to get is to
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Roger Dean. At some point I should probably watch a
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: little bit of the game before I ask all the.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Questions about it. Bernie, this is great.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited to go back to Saint Louis. Not
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: just to sleep in my own bed and see my cat, obviously,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: but I just I love opening day. I love opening
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: up the season at home. Saint Louis just does something special,
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: and I'm excited to get this season underway because win
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: or lose, we are going to have tons to talk about,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: all right.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: I don't want it to take you over time here,
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: and I know you've got to get over to the stage.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: What's your cat's name? I need to know that. I'm
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: a cat guy.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: For all you SpongeBob people out there. Her name is meep,
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: like the little anchovies that used to take over. It's
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: because that's the sound she made. And I wasn't intending
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: to keep her. This is a long This is the
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: most important part of the podcast. Everybody listen up. I
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: found her five years ago, my mom did in a
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: grocery store parking lot, and she was like eight weeks old, disgusting,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: covered with please but I'm not Anna Leaver. So I
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: was like, I'll just like nurse her back to health
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: and find a foster. And you can't name your fosters,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: because if you name your fosters, you're going to keep them.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: So I gave her a little nickname, and then I
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: called her meat because that's a sound she made. She
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: couldn't really meow. And then twenty four hours later I said, yeah,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I'm keeping her. So she's been with me ever since.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: We've got five cats, that's like my dream, five of them,
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: and my wife's amazing because she has. She saved two
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: from the street, literally from the street, brought him in
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: domesticated him, made him healthy, I mean, everything else, and
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: so heck, we may have been added six soon. So
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: we just we just love cats. So if I was.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Home all the time, I would definitely have another one.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: But you know what, commenters, viewers, if you're on Twitter,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: dm me pictures of your cats.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Please don't damn me.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Send me something on Twitter like tag me on Twitter.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Do not damn me. I take it back, but I
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: would like to see cat pictures before Bernie.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: This will be fine, Bernie, you too, I would like
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: to see it all five well, I will.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Wow, this is such a great way to end the
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: podcast for Bernie. For Bernie, I'm Katie. This is Cardinal Territory.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to getting into some real base s
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: fall real soon.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: I'll see you guys back in Saint Louis.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah,