Latest / The Lawtino™ / Christina Guerola Sarchio: President of the Hispanic National Bar Association

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Christina Guerola Sarchio: President of the Hispanic National Bar Association · The Lawtino™

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Latino podcast where we discuss the intersection of law and our Latino communities with legal, political, and community leaders and visionaries.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, it's John Gomez, and welcome to another episode of The Latino, where we represent or where we talk about the intersection of law and the Latino community.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: We invite community leaders, judges, elected officials, and other uh thought leaders to kind of talk about uh where law and our Latino community kind of come together.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this episode, as always, is brought to you by our sponsor, Gomez Trial Attorneys, one of our nation's largest Latino-founded consumer rights, civil rights, personal injury, and employment law firms.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're joined by a very special guest.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, maybe, you know, we could say perhaps the president of well, in fact, the president, but the president of the Hispanic National Bar Association.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, maybe, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, I would think that would be the lar the highest job that you can have as the head of a community of lawyers, you know, that do what we do.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that is uh Christina Weyrola Sarcio, who is a partner at Deckard in Washington, D.C.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so joins us from all the way across the country.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in our podcast room in Southern California and San Diego.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: She joins us from Washington, D.C.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you for being with us, Christina.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: John, it's such a pleasure to be here.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for the invitation.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm really excited to be part of the podcast series.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: You've done an amazing job.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's always entertaining and informative.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm thrilled to be here.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're I'm so excited to, you know, learn a little bit about you, learn more about the Hispanic National Bar Association.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so, starting with you, you know, we always ask our guests to kind of share, you know, how they grew up, you know, what led them into law.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: If they're in law, you're obviously, you know, uh a very um elite lawyer.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so, where did you grow up, you know, and how did you decide to go to law school?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, John.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, like many immigrant kids, um, you know, my my I'm first generation, and so my parents came over from Spain.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my parents grew up under Francisco Franco's regime.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And frankly, my grandfather had fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil War.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: As a result, he was uh jailed as a political prisoner, and Franco took everything from my family.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: So my parents left and made their way to the United States, sort of the land of opportunity, uh, but importantly the land of freedom and democracy.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so, growing up as a kid of immigrants, we always talked about sort of the value and the privilege of being in this country and the opportunities.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think I got interested in the law at an early age, mostly because of survival for my parents, right?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: They were immigrants, they didn't speak um English very well.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: And as a kid, you pick it up easily.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I often translated for them, I often negotiated for them, and frankly advocated for them.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got my skills as a lawyer early on in my career.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then I remember or really early on in my life, and then I remembered when my dad became a US citizen, and that was my first experience with the law and uh being in a courthouse, being in front of a judge.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I fondly remember the judge's statements to all of us that were there that day to get the, you know, to for folks that were getting sworn in, in terms of the importance of citizenship and the importance of making sure that you are participating in the democratic process.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I took that to heart.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, as I was deciding as a young child what to do with my life, the law seemed like a natural fit.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now I didn't know, other than having that encounter with that judge, I didn't know any lawyers, I didn't know anything about the law or what I wanted to do.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I knew I liked to argue.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: I knew I wasn't shy about um speaking to an audience.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it seemed like litigation was the right field for me.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's how I got into it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: What an amazing story.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And what part of the of the United States did you guys end up in?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we grew up in New York City, actually, um in Manhattan.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so um so you're there with your parents and and you you got your your your father, your parents fled from Spain under Franco.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and probably, you know, are you are you running into a lot of people from you know your home community?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you talking to Puerto Ricans?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does New York look like when it comes to Hispanics?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a great question, John.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, most of my friends were either Puerto Rican or Dominican uh growing up in New York.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: There was a very small uh community from Spain.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but by and large, because we all spoke Spanish, it was actually really easy to make friends in school because we all spoke this common language with you know slightly different uh accents.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, I for me, um, you know, being part of the Latino community was really being part of the Puerto Rican and Dominican community.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: And what I loved, especially in New York, it was such a great melting pot.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I felt very welcomed.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, I could get uh, you know, uh teased about my Castilian lisp, right?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: But other than that, um, it, you know, we we all felt like we had this common bond.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really empowering as a young child, sort of trying to navigate um the world and and frankly, especially because my parents had no experience with schools or or even housing.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so trying to figure out where to live, where to go to school, how to do things, it it was great to have that community behind me.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, we're gonna talk a little bit about, you know, you headed off to the Ivy Leagues and, you know, then to law school.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, it seems fitting, you know, as you talk about that, that you're now the president of the Hispanic National Bar Association because, you know, us out here, like we kind of think the world begins and ends with kind of Mexico and, you know, immediate sort of lat uh um, you know, the Americas, North America, maybe a little bit of Guatemala and like we get down a little bit, you know, but we sometimes can tend to forget, you know, that within our country, there are um, you know, people within our community from all over the world, Dominican Republic, you you mentioned, Puerto Rico, Spain, um, you know, the globe.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have obviously you have members, I imagine, of Cuban descent that faced a similar story as your parents.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, like, talk to us a little bit and then we'll back up about this inclusive umbrella that you've created and rose to be president of, which is the Hispanic National Bar Association.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, with respect to the Hispanic National Bar Association, the organization represents the interests of over 68,000 individuals.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we include in that bucket not just practicing lawyers, but judges, law professors, law students, and legal professionals.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: So the paralegals and other professionals that support lawyers in their endeavors.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really quite a large organization.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right, John.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've got um affiliates all over the country.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so what we realize, I think, early on, even though we're a large number, when we come together, it seems like there's so many of us.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: We really are usually the only ones at you know, at work, right?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's only one or two Latinos maybe in a law firm setting or maybe in in the legal department of a corporation.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so it can be a little lonely and isolating sometimes when you're at work and then you come to our events, you come to our conferences, and you're like, oh, mira todos los Latinos aquí, and you're so you feel so empowered.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it really sort of motivates you.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: And frankly, what you realize is that we have more things in common than we do, then we have differences.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so whether you're Cuban or Mexican or from Argentina, um, you know, and and that's what I love is the diversity of our community that um I think frankly makes us stronger because we we put our side our differences and we work together for common goals.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, talk to us a little bit about because I think there could be a misperception um among some that um, you know, we all speak uh the same in terms of politics.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: We all feel the same way about immigration, we all feel the same way about abortion, we all vote for a certain party, and that's just not true, is it?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And look, I'll be honest, sometimes it can be a little tricky where a strong group of the membership want us to be vocal about a certain issue that, and and what we do, I mean, our guiding principle is is it consistent with our mission?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and our mission is to promote and advance the interest of Latino lawyers.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: We are not political, we are um, we are not not partisan at all.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: And we really try to stay true to our mission.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: And as a result, John, I think because we haven't taken political positions, frankly, we enjoy good relationships with anyone who's in the White House.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: As long as they're willing to meet with us, we're happy to support them and their our our job, right, is to get more Hispanic judges, is to get more Latinos appointed to political positions, U.S.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: attorneys, um, general counsels of federal agencies.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so we work with different administrations.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I've had the privilege of working with Republican administrations and Democratic administrations.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we we present our best members, and then hopefully we'll support them um in getting through sort of that that process.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: But we really we, you know, it can be a little tricky sometimes when there's hot button issues.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like for instance, if a Latino judge is being attacked by a certain, you know, politician, how do we react?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we have to defend the judge, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: If he's being attacked just because he's Latino, we have to defend that.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Is he if he's being attacked because of other issues, that's something we may not step into.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: But certainly, if any time that um our identities become at issue, we do have to stand up for them, but we really do work with all parties and and we really try to stay neutral on things.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't I don't know, you know, what particular judge or issue you're referring to, but there was there's a judge here, Gonzalo Curriel, who's uh a guy I worked with at the U.S.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Attorney's Office.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: He was my chief of narcotics when I was uh a line federal prosecutor doing narcotics work.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then um, you know, we were doing cartel work, and he actually um, well, I don't know if I'm allowed to say, but he he had some personal safety issues.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so then he went on the bench, and I remember there was some attack about him being a member of La Raza Lawyers here in San Diego, which we're real active in.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, like super, you know, I thought not um consistent with truth or who the guy is, like he's a good law and order guy.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it would issues like that, is that the kind of thing that you're referring to?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, those kinds of issues where you're just attacking someone's affiliations um or frankly their ethnicity, um, as opposed to judging them on their merits, right?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Justice Sotomayor was also questioned about, you know, she had served on the board of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund when she was uh a younger lawyer.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that that is also, it's not a political organization.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's a nonprofit association.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there are many nonprofit associations that, you know, mainstream judges are parts of and they don't get questioned yet.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when one of our members is part of an association, it thankfully didn't obviously um you know hinder her uh appointment to the Supreme Court, but it was a question that was asked, and we had to we actually worked um uh to help her with the nomination in terms of getting information together to make sure that um we presented all the information and that it was viewed in the light it should have been viewed, which is just you know, it's it's not a partisan organization.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's no bias or concerns that that um members of the judiciary committee should have had by you know um by her participation in that association.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: But it's that kind of thing.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: But unfortunately, that still happens today, right?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that if a judge is either nominated or frankly, if somebody doesn't like his or her decisions, they may attack them again because of their background.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, of course that judge is going to rule that way because he's a Latino.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, I think the judge ruled that way because he or she looked at the facts of the case and you may not agree, but it had nothing to do with their ethnicity.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: To be sure.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's such important work you're doing.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys are in there, you know, advocating for um representative, you know, judges and and and then protecting them, you know, once they get in place.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I I think that is such important work, you know, that that you're doing.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm I think we're all very grateful to you and the organization for those advocacy efforts.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel, I mean, how do you feel it's going in terms of you know getting better representation on the bench?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I think every year we do more and more, and we have a really rigorous process um to before we endorse someone to either a judicial position or frankly for political appointment.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we model it after the ABA's process, but it's very rigorous.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: We look at their opinions, we look at their writings, we look at their social media.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: We really, you know, before we put our HNBA stamp of approval on someone, we want to make sure that that person um shares our values and won't, you know, hasn't done something that is contrary to sort of what we stand for or what we believe in or would embarrass the association.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so we really put people through a rigorous process.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, I think we work with senators from every jurisdiction and we work with the White House, again, regardless of who's in office.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: When we put somebody forward, they know that we've really vetted that person.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: And frankly, over the years, we've gotten more and more credibility because of our process that um it actually means something.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so as a result, we've been able to get more uh individuals appointed to the federal bench and more individuals appointed to uh various government positions.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: We need to work on state court, the state court judiciary.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's a different path.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And as you know, John, every state is different.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, it's still unfortunate where you have some courthouses in predominantly Latino communities, and there are no Latino judges.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: And not that, you know, you need a Latino judge, but boy, you know, you want to make sure that the judiciary is reflective of the community that it serves.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so those are the kinds of things that we are uh looking at in terms of how to better uh support individuals that want to become state court judges and frankly just encouraging people.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, you know, somebody might not even have thought that they would be a good judge until someone says, Hey, have you ever thought about being a judge?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: You'd be great.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then they're like, Oh yeah.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes it's just asking somebody.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we assume that people that want that position would come forward, but honestly, most people are like, oh, I don't think I'm qualified.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I would, you know, have the right skill set.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it takes an objective third party to say, you are absolutely qualified, you're absolutely have the right skill set, and we'd be happy to support you.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing work.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So so let's roll it back to you growing up in Manhattan.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go off to Cornell, undergraduate, Ithaca, New York, um, a little, little bit cold and a little bit, you know, different than Manhattan for sure.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then fast forward uh to George Washington, you know, you you go to law school.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you do you go back to Manhattan?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is that where it all starts as a lawyer?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I still wasn't sure.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: I knew I wanted to be a litigator.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I was very public interest focused.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: So during law school, every summer I did public interest work.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: I I volunteered at the U.S.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Attorney's Office in DC, where I went to law school.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: I volunteered for uh Ayuda, which is a Hispanic uh domestic violence clinic in DC to get women orders of protection.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I did a lot of public interest kind of work.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was where I was leaning.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went back home, lived with my parents, um, had a lot of loans to pay off, and I went to work for the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, which was great because I grew up in not such wonderful neighborhoods sometimes in New York.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so being able to help clean the streets, being able to help protect people from the criminals out there was incredibly fulfilling work.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it allowed me to litigate, allowed me to be in court, which is something I really enjoyed.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, it was the perfect job, other than the money.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and you were working under a legendary guy, too, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: I was under Robert Morgenthau, whose family, um, his I think his grand his father had served as Secretary of State under uh one of the former presidents.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so he, I mean, he was so inspiring and um really just ran that office incredibly well.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so talk to us about how your kind of cultural, you know, background and language skills, you know, translated or you know, shaped your work as a as a frontline prosecutor on the streets of Manhattan.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it helped me in a number of respects, right?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, speaking to um the victims.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: So there were a lot of um Spanish, only Spanish-speaking victims that had that had uh suffered um the crimes.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so being able just to talk to them in their native tongue was incredibly helpful.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, not just victims, but witnesses, right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Just being able to have a conversation and build trust and build rapport helped me to better prosecute the cases that I was handling.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: So certainly the language skills helped right off the bat.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Growing up in New York City also really helped.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: I knew the neighborhoods.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it helped when uh when a crime happened in a certain place, I can visual, I could visualize it in my mind, I could describe it for the jury, but I also knew how to pick a jury based on where crimes happened and the kinds of crimes that happened.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so it enabled me, frankly, to be a very successful prosecutor because it was my hometown.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, if I had a drug case, I knew that I wanted to I wanted to pick working class people that lived in neighborhoods where they had a drug problem because they they would be more willing to to um you know put someone away because they're they under they appreciated and understood that the clean the streets needed to be cleaned up, as opposed to picking people who you know smoked pot on the weekends and thought drugs should be legalized.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it really um permitted me just my background and experience permitted me to to I think um be pretty successful in in the work that I was doing.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so from there, um you went into private practice, is that right?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And first at a smaller firm, you were telling me now you're in what we would call big law deckert.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was I was at a place called Late the Milwaukee's, also what I would call big law.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so like on this little stop in between, did you encounter maybe some you know challenges, you know, that perhaps could be attributable to your identity as a Latina?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, John.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, moving, I moved to DC, I got married, my my husband was in the was an army JAG.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we were sort of at the mercy of the military in terms of where we were gonna live, but thankfully we were in DC.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I left the Manhattan District Attorney's Office and went into law practice.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: I never thought I would like big law.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I had always heard all the rumors in law school of what a sweatshop they could be.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I worked in a smaller firm, thinking, well, let me try a small firm and see how that worked.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: I have to say, John, it was it was an awful experience.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: But a wonderful experience because I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't gone through that experience.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: What I realized was first of all, I was alone.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: There were no Latino lawyers working at that firm and very few lawyers of color at all.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: But it was the culture and it was how I was treated and how the lack of opportunities.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Here I came in as a fourth-year lawyer with a tremendous amount of trial experience.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I was given none of those opportunities where I saw my white male counterparts being given tremendous opportunities, even though they lacked the experience.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really, you know, comments that people would make, jokes that they would say, you named it, I experienced it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it was devastating to me.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was devastating because I'd always seen how my parents were treated, you know, growing up, even though we were in New York City, you know, the comments people made to my parents or making fun of them because they had thick accents.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'd always seen discrimination through their eyes.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: But this was the first time that it was directed at me.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it almost broke me, John.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: It almost made me quit the law.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: They made me feel like I wasn't good enough.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: They made me feel like, you know, I wasn't meant to be in this profession.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so at that moment, I got a flyer in the mail to join a local um meeting of the Hispanic Bar Association.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I went to that meeting and that's where I found my community.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was just that that day, and all it took was one meeting to realize, first of all, I felt at home.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: But also, people were talking about challenges that I was dealing with.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so it made me realize well, clearly I'm not the problem.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: If we're all having these challenges, maybe there's something going on that, you know, we're not really aware of.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so it actually empowered me to leave that firm.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, I decided I was either going to go big or go home.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I went into big law and frankly have been tremendously successful ever since.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: But if it had not been for frankly, that bad experience, it led me to the Hispanic Bar Association and opened up this community that I didn't know existed as a fourth, fifth-year lawyer.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I I wouldn't be where I am today professionally, which is one of the reasons, now having been practicing law for 30 years, that I wanted to give back and I wanted to step up and um had and decided to run for president of the organization.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: What a nice story.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: HNBA kind of rescued you.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you found your community and you're like, okay, you know, I'm gonna give back, and now you're leading that community.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And also what a lesson for others.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm sure there's some folks listening, maybe some younger Latinos, Latinas, um, that are dealing with the kind of things you just described.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they're like, oh, I'm not good enough.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna give up, you know.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're all right.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a failure.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: But then they look at you, you're like a full-blown partner at this huge firm.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're you told we were talking a little bit, you're in charge of talent that is like training, you know, at least at some level, you know, a huge portion of the firm.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're like the coach of the firm.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's an overstatement.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'll she she didn't say that.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I said that.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, partner at the firm, doing great, and all because you know, you found a community that valued you for who you were.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's true, John.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and what I think um it I find disappointing is that not much has changed.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And when I go to conferences, when I go to meetings, when I go to get togethers, and I hear young lawyers talk about their experiences, it's unfortunate that they are sharing experiences very similar to what I experienced, you know, 30 years ago.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, we need to do more to change the narrative.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: We need to do more to support our younger lawyers.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it is a little bit lonely at the top, I'll be honest.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people at my level have either, you know, quit the law or gone into the business side of law or gone on to do other things.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: So to find uh partners in in big law firms who are Latino and forget about being Latina, it's a really, really small number.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's lonely.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to make sure that I do everything I can to increase that number before my year's done.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it sounds like you're off to a good start.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know, you know, I'm I was looking at some figures, Sarah was kind enough to pull them for me.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that tells me that right now, uh Latinos, Hispanics, you know, constitute approximately, we'll say 20% of total U.S.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: population.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um probably higher in the Southwest, you know, kind of where we're at.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had um Attorney General Raul Torres of New Mexico on a couple episodes back.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And New Mexico is actually the first state that's crossed over the 50% mark.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, out here in California, you know, we are the largest population group, uh, but not yet over 50%.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: But back to the the big story, about 20%, and as you know, very, very, very rapidly growing.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, according to the figures that she pulled, you know, at just 7%.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you have different are our lawyers, you know, just 7% of the lawyers are Hispanic or Latino or Latina.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we got work to do.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how do you kind of view the future in terms of making sure that our legal um you know structure reflects the community that we're serving?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: John, so so we have a number of programs, and and you're right.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's still, you know, going into law school, we've got good numbers, but it's then when you go through the sort of the pyramid chart, right?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you start to look at leadership positions at law firms or general counsel positions at companies, those numbers are just tiny.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we're talking about less than 2% at most in terms of equity partnerships at law firms or general councils.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we we've got a number of programs to address those issues specifically.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, this year I created the special committee on equity partnerships because I really want to pull back the curtain on how to become an equity partner at a big law firm.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um that is something that you know you very, very elusive, very it is, it is hard to put your finger on.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard, right?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just having a book of business because I mean you worked at Latham and Watkins, you know, it's not just some people are there without a book of business, but they are there because they've been blessed by others.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so how do you get there?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm putting I've put together a good uh group to really look at that issue and and present opportunities.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: We have a great uh path to general counsel positions.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: We have our Boded Vendicinco program, where it's a specific program where we are training and grooming and mentoring and providing job opportunities to uh a select group of in-house lawyers who we think are ready to be general counsels.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: They just need those doors open.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we're working with headhunters, we're working with other general counsels uh to really kind of create opportunities for them to step into those roles.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: And those are just two of our programs.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have a really we have a program specifically for Latina lawyers.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: We have a Latina commission, where again, it's a program, you apply to it, and you get some training and some development on sharpening your skills, both your soft skills and your legal skills.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: So you name it, we've probably got a program on it, but the pipeline really matters and making sure that we support our students.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we have our annual moot court competition where we invite Latino students from all around the country to compete.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: We give, I think last year we gave more than$250,000 in scholarships to law students.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we are really putting our money where our mouth is and trying to support the next generation of lawyers.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing work.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, um, I kind of forget, you know, you get into your own little world, and you know, I see I I tend to see like a lot of you know uh Latino faces like in in the in the in the criminal court system here in Southern California, um you know, immigration law, maybe a little bit of what I do is mainly kind of consumer stuff, but you're like I think back to like big law and that equity partnership and you know, general counsel is like being the head lawyer at a big company.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think um I I share a stat here that um I look at sometimes, and that is at least in California, the percentage of uh kids in public schools today in California that self-identify as Latino or Hispanic is now 65%.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, my pitch is always, you know, it makes business sense, you know, um to be reflective and better able to serve that community.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And like I think, you know, um I think there can be this perception that maybe we impose upon ourselves that and then gets per perpetuated that maybe we're not good enough lawyers for everybody, you know, like, oh yeah, we're great, you know, for for our people.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I think we maybe, you know, we need to turn from, oh, this is a challenge, oh, we got to overcome to, you know, we're the best of the best as it is.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, if you're Coca-Cola, if you're General Motors, if you're Kravath, you know, then then, you know, our lawyers deserve a spot at the top.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let me tell you a story.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: So one of my first big clients was Exxon.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: And frankly, had it not been for Exxon um helping me, I wouldn't have had the business to then become an equity partner.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: So they really helped in that endeavor.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: But Exxon.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Exxon.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the lawyers from Exxon attended HMBA conference, you know, young lawyers at in-house attended when I was a young lawyer, and we got to know each other.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And 10 years of seeing each other at conferences, um, we kind of grew up, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: I became a partner, they became uh, you know, they got into a position where they could hire outside counsel.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh those lawyers actually invited their supervisors to attend one of our conferences, and I met with them.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason that the the supervisors came, what what they described to me is we're Exxon, we get sued all the time, and we know we're gonna lose most cases, but there are some cases that we should win.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: We actually um have the facts and the law on our side, but when we walk into a courtroom, right, we are five old white guys on the Exxon table, and you've got sort of this, you know, diverse coalition on the plaintiff's side.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so the jurors can relate better to the plaintiff's lawyers.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we realize we were losing because of what we look like in court, and so we are here at the Hispanic National Bar Association conference to recruit outside counsel to help us um change, sort of, you know, level the playing field, if you will.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: And they I was one of the lawyers that they hired um for bigger matters.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: They hired a slew of other of our lawyers, and sure enough, we were winning cases for them.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so it really, you know, it it I enjoyed a really good relationship for a long period of time where I was getting really big cases.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: And um I fulfilled their business need of winning.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: They fulfilled my business lead need of, you know, getting a book of business that I could then leverage to um to become an equity partner.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so that to me is a perfect story of how businesses should be looking at diverse outside counsel just just to you know, not just to give us a chance, but because it makes business sense.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's an amazing story.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And good on Exxon for you know recognizing, you know, that just dollar and cents, you know, business proposition.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, good on you for stepping in and and doing great work for them.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And again, another story about why people, you know, should be involved with the Hispanic National Bar Association.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't know, like um, I I we had a judge from Texas on here the other day, and she was saying um that Johnny Depp's lawyer, Camille Vasquez, you know, like, and you know, like I watched that trial, a lot of it, um, and I was like, oh yeah, she's doing a good job, and uh, she seems really cool and neat.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I didn't really, you know, put five and eight together and you know understand, you know, that she is a Latina that that stood up and tried a huge case for like a highly recognized white male.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so like I thought that was cool as I reflected upon it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: It reminds me of your kind of Exxon story.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we actually honored her uh with a 40 under 40 award last, I think two years ago.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's great.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, she's a great lawyer and she happens to be Latina.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just happens, right?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's the deal.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, we have some of the most talented, you know, doctors, lawyers, scientists, you know, uh, you name it.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, how give us your pitch.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Why should every Latino lawyer in the world, or we'll say in the United States at least, you know, uh may I've got people in Mexico listening, you know, maybe they could join, but why should we all be members of his the Hispanic National Bar Association?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'll say two things, John.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: First is um, I invite anyone to come to just one of our conferences.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I know if you come to one, you will fall in love with the organization.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: You will feel the energy in the room, you will feel the support.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: It is an incredibly welcoming environment.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: And as I mentioned at the outset, it doesn't matter where you're from, it doesn't matter if you're gay or straight, if you're Catholic or Jewish.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we we have sort of an incredible diversity of membership, but we have one thing in common, and that is our heritage.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I encourage folks to join because they will really get a lot of personal benefit from it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: But also the second reason is just professionally.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we are stronger together than we are apart, and we help each other.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: We have amazing CLEs that not only you learn from, but you get opportunities to speak and to present.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you get uh opportunities to work to be on a board uh to for leadership opportunities.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: You may not be getting those opportunities in your day job.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so we really offer you so many professional opportunities.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, so the personal and the professional, I think, are great combination and sort of the key reasons why people should join our organization.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I would dare to add a third.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a member of something called the American Association for Justice, which really promotes um, you know, consumer um issues and probably judges, you know, but you guys are doing the same thing for our community, you know, and I think, you know, as you know, stewards of that um responsibility, like I feel like I have a responsibility to support you through membership and and maybe other ways as well.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great, it's a great point, John.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: And something I actually talked about too is think about how much our families gave up for to be in the land of opportunity, right?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Think of, I mean, they gave up their language, their families, their culture to be here.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: They worked incredibly hard.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we should take every opportunity we can.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: We really should um do more to give back to our community, to honor our families, right, who sacrificed a tremendous amount.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how we can honor them by continuing to stay involved and engage with our community and support our community.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I will say on a personal note that I plan um to take my family to Spain for the first month of summer.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, next summer, we're gonna be over there for a month.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're currently looking at the I I don't imagine that you came from the beach towns of Mallorca and and those places, but that's kind of where we're thinking about hanging out for like a month and then just cruising all over Spain.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's so if you have or your parents have recommendations for us, you know, we'll be in touch.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's uh the you're gonna love the food no matter where you go, but it's it's an incredibly it's a lovely country.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: The people are lovely.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: Try to stay away from the tourist areas, but you know, the the people are great.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, we uh my family's from Valencia, so on the beach, but not not the posh, you know, beaches of of Spain.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, beautiful.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, you know, for being with us.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if folks want to, you know, learn more about you, um, you know, where where can they find you and and your information?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: So HMBA website, hmba.com.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: You'll see the officers, you'll see um, you'll see my profile there.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um at my email is president at hmba.com.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it couldn't be easier.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um obviously you can reach out to me through Deckert as well, but but for HMBA is a little bit easier for people to remember.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: So happy to field any calls, um, answer any questions, and certainly recruit as much as I can.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: So please reach out if you're interested.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being um such a strong and inspiring and thoughtful leader of our organization.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, thank you for being a role model for all of us and particularly aspiring and current um Latina lawyers, you know, who are looking for strong, especially in the trial realm, right?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we didn't talk about that.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we divert just for one moment.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we don't, there's not a whole lot of Latinos like in the corporate suite or the equity partnership, but like actually being in trial, trying big civil cases, like you're a very rare, you know, bird when it comes to that as well.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we how do we get more of us into the courtroom trying big cases?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's true.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and in fact, I um sort of probably uh am your counterpart in in cases, uh representing big companies that have been suited.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah, both ways in consumer class actions and that sort of thing.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think it it really is, you know, those kinds of cases, again, being able to identify with the jury, a jury's gonna be incredibly diverse.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: The the bench, depending on where you are, could be incredibly diverse.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a tremendous amount of value in making sure that there's um diversity in your lead trial lawyers.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's another area that um we we do need to tackle, John.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: So would welcome collaboration with you on trying to figure out how to better promote um the talent that we have within our community.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that'll be a working project of ours.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Exxon, you know, is smart with their money and they made the right money choice.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we would encourage other, you know, big corporate, you know, uh legal departments and big um law, law firms to follow suit.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, in closing, thank you so much again.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it was a great privilege and honor.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait um to sign up.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do it today.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Promise I'm gonna get all my uh Latino lawyers as members.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're coming to the next conference.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: When is the next conference and where is it at?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: So the next conference is gonna be in Atlanta uh in March, I think March 18th, 19th.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it'll be our corporate counselor conference where we it's mostly corporate focused, but we also do a mood court competition.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: We, as I mentioned earlier, we have an annual mood court competition.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: But we have programming for lawyers in every field.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just in in corporate law or corporate you know, in corporate counsel.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but but yeah, that that it's a very fun conference.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I can settle some cases while I'm there.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, but absolutely, John.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been a privilege.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: This has been a lot of fun, but thank you for the work that you're doing too, because it you're really getting the word out there.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so um really appreciate everything you're also doing for our community.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Christina.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: So this concludes uh this episode of the Latino.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, look forward to uh future episodes.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you like what you hear, um please subscribe.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're available on Apple, Spotify, every uh media you can think of.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so with that, we'll sign out.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you for listening.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Latino podcast.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you again next time.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: And be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.