Latest / CareTalk: Healthcare. Unfiltered. / The United States of Care

Transcript

The United States of Care · CareTalk: Healthcare. Unfiltered.

• 0:00
  - Welcome to Care Talk, America's home for incisive debate about healthcare business and policy.
• 0:05
  I'm David Williams, President of Health Business Group.
• 0:08
  - And I'm John Driscoll, the CEO of Care Center.
• 0:10
  Yes, David, we have a special guest today.
• 0:14
  We have the president of the United States of Care, my friend Natalie Davis.
• 0:19
  And the US of Care is focused on building a better healthcare system.
• 0:22
  And since we all know that it kind of sucks right now, she's gonna explain what we're doing, what we all should be doing about it, and what the US of Care in specific is doing about it.
• 0:34
  Welcome, Natalie.
• 0:35
  - Great. Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:37
  - You know what, I think it just shows how important healthcare is.
• 0:41
  You know, not only do we have a United States of America, but we have a United States of Care to go along with it.
• 0:45
  I think that is just terrific, John.
• 0:47
  It really shows how important it is.
• 0:49
  - Well, I think that they're actually, while you're poking fun at it, I think one of the biggest challenges we have, Brett, Natalie, maybe you start here, is getting people to agree on what some of the problems are and kind of coming up with common solutions in this uber politicized time.
• 1:08
  Why, why does, why does a united approach to the United States of Care really matter?
• 1:14
  - Yeah, thank you.
• 1:16
  And thank you for the question it actually tees me up perfectly to talk about what we do at United States of Care.
• 1:21
  When we launched five years ago, we really set out to find a path of where do people across this country, across demographics agree where the healthcare system is working for them and where it doesn't.
• 1:33
  You know, we, we looked around when we, when we launched this organization, it was right under the heels of the summer of repeal and replace.
• 1:40
  And we said, there needs to be an organization that is thinking about the future of our healthcare system, but really with the idea of understanding what works for people and what doesn't and finding those united needs and united experiences.
• 1:53
  So we spent years doing that, going across the country and talking to people.
• 1:58
  I started out at a kitchen table in San Diego, to the streets of Philadelphia, then moved to Zoom during the pandemic, focus groups and national polls to really understand what is working and what isn't.
• 2:09
  And I can tell you, the future of the healthcare system, when you talk to people, it needs to be affordable, dependable, personalized, and easy to navigate.
• 2:17
  And the four goals that that really resonate with people are aligned there.
• 2:21
  They have this certainty they can afford their healthcare, their coverage is there when their life changes and they can depend on it, that the healthcare system provides personalized care when and how they need it, and the healthcare system's easy to understand and navigate, which might be the hardest one to tackle, but, but those really resonate across. Yeah.
• 2:39
  - But we have these standards. I mean, I think maybe to frame it for a moment,- Yeah.
• 2:46
  - You know, over the last, you know, since the, the, the Obamacare got passed, being pro or against care in general has been a lightning rod issue for politics and has divided even those who might agree on different policy decisions.
• 3:03
  You're now talking about people agreeing on policy as well as approach to healthcare.
• 3:10
  How the heck is that going?
• 3:13
  - It's, it's going well and it's going and it's frustrating'cause there are things that we need to fix in this healthcare system.
• 3:21
  But we have seen progress towards these four goals and, and we took these four goals and found the 12 solution areas, the 12 specific areas that people want us to, to focus on.
• 3:30
  And some of the ones that we've seen progress on were just recently out of Congress with reducing prescription drugs.
• 3:36
  That was the number one issue people wanted us to work on, to making sure people could afford their health insurance.
• 3:42
  We saw the, the tax credits pass and people will have, you know, those, those benefits of making sure they can afford their insurance.
• 3:50
  Over the last three years we've passed legislation in three states to make sure more people have more coverage that they can afford and continue to see progress at the state and federal level.
• 4:00
  But there's so much more to do.
• 4:02
  People cannot afford their healthcare.
• 4:04
  It's the number one issue that we hear, even when you talk about caregiving, maternal health or others.
• 4:08
  It comes down to affordability.
• 4:10
  And so there's a lot of room for progress.
• 4:13
  - So, Natalie, I'm trying to understand, you know, why it's important to go on this sort of, you know, listening tour.
• 4:22
  We have a lot of experts around, you know, you have Mr. Driscoll among, among others.
• 4:26
  Why is it important to go and, you know, listen to the, listen to the people as opposed to listen to the Driscoll's?
• 4:31
  - Well, when we started the organization, we brought in people like John and Lauren and Senator Frist, Andy Slavitt, Mario Molina, Dr. Rhonda Meadows, people, luminaries across healthcare to say, come with us on this journey, help us be a part of the solution, but let's base it on what people need.
• 4:48
  Because often when you do talk to politicians or to others, there is a belief that people don't agree that the American people want different things.
• 4:55
  And, and while that's true, there are things that people want help on.
• 4:58
  The one that interested me the most, and we're diving into in our policy innovation lab, is a real desire for caregivers, for people to have support when they care for loved ones at home.
• 5:08
  It's actually the, the number one issue that spiked for Republicans.
• 5:13
  And as a political organization, you look for where you find these spikes across political demographics and, and that tells me that we have issues that aren't politicized yet.
• 5:21
  That tells me that if we can base these on human needs, human stories, and work with people across the aisle, or bring smart solutions that the general public agrees on, that we can have some space to work with leaders in the healthcare system to push these forward with policy makers.
• 5:36
  - But it's, but Natalie one of the things that's attractive about the United States of Care is that you've got folks like Senator Frist, who was the Republican majority leader and you've got folks like Mike Levitt who worked as, as President Bush's secretary of HHS and you've also got Andy and others who worked in the Obama administration.
• 5:59
  But what's what's frustrating is that even in the current environment where people agree, they sometimes posture to disagree.
• 6:09
  How do you solve for that around, because when you're talking about caregiving or prescription drug prices, those are all American issues.
• 6:17
  So how do you break through the clutter there.
• 6:21
  - John it's pretty, some pretty dark stuff.
• 6:22
  It's like you say, okay, it's great that people agree and then they decide to disagree despite the fact they agree.
• 6:27
  What are you talking about?
• 6:28
  - Well, that David, David, we gotta get you outta your Covid hiding spot up in the attic.
• 6:33
  - No kidding- That you've been there for two years, the news ain't great, dude.
• 6:38
  There's a fair amount of, there's a fair amount of divide and, and destroy.
• 6:44
  That's just I think part of the conventional politics of the moment.
• 6:48
  But what Natalie's raising, which is both intriguing and frustrating is both the, the, the, I mean that, that Biden just passed the first material drug pricing reduction since Part D is sort of the way I look at it, Natalie, that, that where, that's a genuine benefit to people.
• 7:11
  - Yeah- This is something that both Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump agreed on and somehow they didn't get together on.
• 7:18
  So David actually division's kind of an issue.
• 7:20
  So maybe we'll let Natalie answer it while you sit there in your ivory towered attic in the People's Republic of Massachusetts.
• 7:29
  - You know, I would say that our, one of my goals as the organization is that we are at the table when industries are at the table talking to policymakers.
• 7:36
  That the people's voice is, is, is right there if not louder than that of industry.
• 7:42
  And I think we have the data to back it up on what people need.
• 7:45
  We have the, the, the data of where disparities are occurring, where people are unnecessarily dying or could be treated better based on their race, their class, their, their language.
• 7:56
  And so, you know, I, I am optimistic though.
• 7:59
  I I know it's an uphill battle where we can be there, we can say this is what matters to people.
• 8:03
  We were just in rural South Carolina talking to people about their needs.
• 8:07
  We brought policy makers to the table in this library where we brought community members to talk about what they need and, and, you know, being that, amplifying people's voices that are already loud but we can make them louder, bring those to other states, bring those up to the federal government and be at the table.
• 8:25
  - So, so Natalie just, I just wanna be double click on what you're saying because you've really, as David said, invested in going to what is, what are people's authentic experiences outside of the beltway conversation That's often way too complicated and no one follows it so it becomes a two and fro between personalities, how do you take that, how to talk about the language of healthcare burdens and opportunities and turn that into policy in a way that people even listen to?
• 8:57
  - Yeah, so one of my, the most interesting learnings that I've had over the years of talking to people is I would talk to them on the phone and I'd say, thank you so much for spending time with me.
• 9:07
  And they would say, I'm happy to talk to you, Natalie, about my experiences, but they're mine alone.
• 9:12
  Nobody else goes through their healthcare system because I'm either too smart or too dumb.
• 9:15
  I'm either too rich or too poor.
• 9:17
  I'm too healthy or not healthy.
• 9:19
  So really this experience I have, I'll tell you about it, but it's, it's mine.
• 9:22
  And there are times where that's true.
• 9:24
  But it's actually also, I then heard the same stories over and over again of people feeling like their doctors weren't looking at their whole body, they weren't looking at their head and their, their mental health as the same as their, their physical health that they, you know.
• 9:37
  - In many cases they don't make eye contact.
• 9:40
  - They don't make eye contact.
• 9:41
  People talk about that, that they can't believe their insurance is gonna be there if they, they do get cancer, they get, you know, laid off during a pandemic.
• 9:50
  Their insurance is not there.
• 9:51
  And so we use words very, very intentionally.
• 9:55
  So our first goal, like I said, is people have the certainty they can afford their healthcare.
• 9:58
  We could have just said people afforded it, but when you get to the emotional discussions of people, it's that certainty is like what they don't have and it's what they need and it's what's hampering them from getting care.
• 10:08
  So when we talk to policy makers or we talk to other people who are, you know, thought leaders in healthcare, we say, let's use words that really resonate with people.
• 10:17
  Value-based care: don't use that.
• 10:19
  Value-based care: Nobody knows what you're talking about, but you're talking about an experience where people are seen as their full body, where they're going and they have the support they need from other providers.
• 10:28
  Value-based care: We talk about targeted changes because when you talk to people as much as they hate the healthcare system, they've got it taped up and you know, all of their little hacks that they've done to get through the healthcare system and they're really afraid, if you do a lot, they can't get through this healthcare system and they don't trust you can pull it off.
• 10:45
  Value-based care: - You know, you know, Natalie, you just, you just screwed up a lot of Dave's business by saying that no one understands value-based care.
• 10:51
  Value-based care: He's been, he's been, he's been, he's, he's been, he's been supping at that table for many, many years.
• 10:57
  Value-based care: Come on, David You're on your back on that one- What do you think about it, David?
• 11:02
  Value-based care: Yeah.
• 11:03
  Value-based care: - Well I was gonna say, I, I do live in an ivory tower, but it's a synthetic ivory, so I don't want anybody getting too upset with me about it.
• 11:09
  Value-based care: And I think, you know, value-based care, I think people like the word, you know, value.
• 11:13
  Value-based care: But I, I had a question which relates to the kind of the role of the states versus the federal government.
• 11:18
  Value-based care: You know, I usually expect a national organization to be focused on things at the federal level.
• 11:22
  Value-based care: - Yeah.
• 11:23
  Value-based care: - But it sounds like you've got a mix of state and federal.
• 11:24
  Value-based care: How do those go together?
• 11:26
  Value-based care: - Yeah, so let me tell you about how we do our work.
• 11:27
  Value-based care: We go across the country and talk to people.
• 11:29
  Value-based care: I've covered that.
• 11:30
  Value-based care: We then have come out with the United Solutions for Care.
• 11:32
  Value-based care: It's our agenda for change.
• 11:33
  Value-based care: It is these four goals and the 12 solutions that across demographics people believe will make a difference in their healthcare system.
• 11:40
  Value-based care: It's backed with evidence that these are issues if we address in the right way, we can increase, make a more equitable healthcare system.
• 11:47
  Value-based care: We then run state and federal campaigns to drive these issues where we see opportunities where there are, are leaders happening in states or with the federal government or with Congress.
• 11:59
  Value-based care: For us, we believe that any lever we can, we can work on is, is really important.
• 12:03
  Value-based care: And, and more so when we started the organization, we said let's have these state trials, let's try things in different states.
• 12:08
  Value-based care: We've passed public option in three states.
• 12:11
  Value-based care: Each of those look different because each state is different.
• 12:14
  Value-based care: If eventually there's a place where we can go to the federal government and, and there's a president or another person who wants to run or really think about public option as an issue, we can point to different states that have built it differently, have implemented it differently and have different outcomes.
• 12:29
  Value-based care: So for us it was very intentional as an organization to do that.
• 12:32
  Value-based care: Lastly, I'll say we also have a policy innovation lab where we know that this country doesn't have the right answer on everything or we don't have good enough policy or policy with equity lens baked into it.
• 12:44
  Value-based care: And so we have an innovation lab where we work with people across the healthcare system to build new policy, which we can then deploy either through the private sector partners that we have or at the state or federal level.
• 12:56
  Value-based care: - So, you know, your fourth goal about making an understandable system, and John, this gets to your nasty point about people not understanding value-based care.
• 13:02
  Value-based care: You do have, you do have two solutions related to making the system more understandable.
• 13:07
  Value-based care: One's about making prescription costs more transparent.
• 13:09
  Value-based care: - Yeah.
• 13:10
  Value-based care: - And the other one is about increasing availability of patient navigators.
• 13:13
  Value-based care: Now the navigators, John can explain value-based care I suppose, but what are these two things for?
• 13:17
  Value-based care: And, and you know, do, do you get some, some, some juice out of them?
• 13:21
  Value-based care: - Yeah.
• 13:22
  Value-based care: So what's really interesting about the first one is that we brought, so we had these four goals we heard from listening to people.
• 13:29
  Value-based care: We brought over 70 different policies back out to people and said, we heard your goals, do these, any of these resonate?
• 13:35
  Value-based care: The 12 are on our United Solutions for Care.
• 13:38
  Value-based care: People ranked, even if you can't change prescription costs, just tell me how much they're gonna cost.
• 13:44
  Value-based care: Just tell me.
• 13:45
  Value-based care: And, and even if you don't change 'them, I can't afford it, but at least I'll know.
• 13:48
  Value-based care: And so we see a real need there and I think we're gonna need to bring that to the lab and understand how do we do that?
• 13:53
  Value-based care: Because I know it's not easy, but people, people want to know what the prescriptions are gonna cost.
• 13:59
  Value-based care: And number two, I, I wanted to call it a healthcare buddy because when I talked to people, especially this one group in California, there was a woman who's a wheelchair user and she talked about how hard it was for her to go and get a mammogram if her, if she didn't have a loved one with her to help her lift her up, you know, get her in the machine and then listen to the doctor afterwards about what, you know, what the outcome was.
• 14:24
  Value-based care: And I, and everybody around the table kind of nodded And were thinking, oh, when I've had this issue, I wish someone was there to take notes for me or whatever it is.
• 14:31
  Value-based care: And so, you know, I, I was like, what if we had a healthcare buddy?
• 14:34
  Value-based care: And people were like, yes! Like someone to come with me if a loved one can't.
• 14:37
  Value-based care: The word buddy didn't stick when we talked to others about it.
• 14:39
  Value-based care: But it really is this idea of someone to help navigate- It's a little weird.
• 14:43
  Value-based care: the healthcare system.
• 14:43
  Value-based care: - What's weird?
• 14:44
  Value-based care: - It's a little weird. The whole buddy.
• 14:46
  Value-based care: And like, it just reminds me way too much.
• 14:47
  Value-based care: - Yeah, the term didn't work.
• 14:48
  Value-based care: - Of of of of, of like nursery school and making sure you don't lose people going out to the school.
• 14:53
  Value-based care: - Yeah, so it didn't stick.
• 14:54
  Value-based care: - But I think that, I think that there's a, but what does it say about our system that, you know, with, with, without Sacagawea.
• 15:03
  Value-based care: That was the right reference, right?
• 15:05
  Value-based care: Right, for the Lewis and Clark expedition there, David, to test your knowledge of America.
• 15:11
  Value-based care: - Without a true guide.
• 15:14
  Value-based care: You can't, you can't get the basics.
• 15:15
  Value-based care: I think that's, I mean, is that the right question Natalie?
• 15:18
  Value-based care: Or should we say, how about we design a system that doesn't require, you know, you know, expert supervision?
• 15:25
  Value-based care: I think I, that would be, I mean, I was with you on drug cost transparency and David, you're gonna have to move away from value based bloviation to actually maybe working on it.
• 15:36
  Value-based care: Cause I think that's, that's something that everybody agrees on.
• 15:39
  Value-based care: Like why can't you just tell me what I owe and just don't surprise me.
• 15:43
  Value-based care: I mean, I, I that, talk about a bipartisan issue.
• 15:50
  Value-based care: Can we maybe double click on that and maybe come back to our, our, our, supervised, our supervised our need for supervised help?
• 16:03
  Value-based care: - Well, John.
• 16:04
  Value-based care: - On drugs it's critical.
• 16:04
  Value-based care: Yeah, David, come on, jump in here.
• 16:06
  Value-based care: - Yeah.
• 16:07
  Value-based care: I think a real simple way, if you wanna simplify, you know, people don't like all the sort of specifics.
• 16:12
  Value-based care: If you just say, you know, this is your copay and does it have a comma in it or not, you know, that's, that's how you should just say.
• 16:18
  Value-based care: (John laughs) That's my way to simplify it.
• 16:21
  Value-based care: - You know, it's, it is, but it, it, you know, it really, drugs are not that hard.
• 16:25
  Value-based care: I mean, it is you typically that, that's something that I really do think, you know, it, it typically doesn't affect as much the accumulators and all the other puts and takes.
• 16:35
  Value-based care: But given how important drugs are, you know, they're increasingly the largest spend item for commercial, commercially insured.
• 16:46
  Value-based care: They're getting there on, on, on Medicare.
• 16:49
  Value-based care: If you add it all up that I, I do think that people that if we could just make, get that innovation in place, I think my 88 year old mom would really like to know what she owes and, and how it ties to what she's getting.
• 17:02
  Value-based care: It's this, it's, it's a total black box system.
• 17:05
  Value-based care: I don't know what, what, what do you think about.
• 17:07
  Value-based care: Can we make progress on that one, Natalie?
• 17:10
  Value-based care: - I hope so. I mean it is, it's a, it's a big industry to go up against for sure.
• 17:16
  Value-based care: And when we talk to people, it's like, how can you just even tell us how we set the prices?
• 17:19
  Value-based care: Like I'd love to know how much I wanna cost, but also, like you just said, John, the word black box.
• 17:23
  Value-based care: How are these set?
• 17:25
  Value-based care: Why do they increase?
• 17:27
  Value-based care: I think it'll be really interesting with the implementation of the prescription drug through the Medicare program.
• 17:32
  Value-based care: And, and we will have a sneak, we will have a peak more into how, how they're being set or how Medicare is negotiating for these prices.
• 17:39
  Value-based care: And you know, we're gonna continue to be at the table to say, these need to extend past Medicare.
• 17:44
  Value-based care: We need all people to make sure they can afford their insulin and, and, and other drugs.
• 17:49
  Value-based care: And so, you know, I think there's gonna be a big step forward towards this one of really making, making it clear how we're negotiating the price that the government will pay or, you know, Medicare beneficiaries that will pay for their drugs.
• 18:01
  Value-based care: - You know.
• 18:02
  Value-based care: - If you just. Go, go David.
• 18:04
  Value-based care: - If you think about these dozen solutions, you know, your second one is about eliminating out of pocket costs or basic healthcare services.
• 18:11
  Value-based care: And on the one hand we talk about bipartisan, that also sounds like if you pitch it a certain way, it's like free stuff.
• 18:16
  Value-based care: You know, it sounds like socialism, you know.
• 18:18
  Value-based care: - Well, so our country made a huge step, and I know you guys just had an issue on a session,- Episode.
• 18:25
  Value-based care: - Episode about preventive services that people can get without, without paying out of pocket.
• 18:32
  Value-based care: There is a court case that could take that away for millions of people, especially the unemployed or sponsored coverage if it goes, you know, if the decisions goes in a certain way and the ramifications go a certain way.
• 18:44
  Value-based care: So I think first we need to sure up and make sure that the out of pocket costs that people are shielded from through the ACA stay.
• 18:52
  Value-based care: But I think there's also some real, real desire from people where they can have more mental healthcare and, and preventive care that isn't out of pocket.
• 19:01
  Value-based care: And so we have a real interest in, in working with, with states especially, we see some progress possible in the next couple of years of states of making sure to protect people or increase this ability to get the care that if, if we're staying healthier then and ideally we're not getting sick here.
• 19:17
  Value-based care: - I, I just think there's a really, there was real power, Natalie, in, in, in the problem of solving, I just want to get what I paid for with insurance.
• 19:26
  Value-based care: - Yeah.
• 19:27
  Value-based care: - And with healthcare. And, and that is a huge challenge.
• 19:31
  Value-based care: And if you can chip away at it, and I'd, I'd, I'd start with, with drugs, but if you can get all that preventive stuff, that's great.
• 19:38
  Value-based care: But people just, there's a, there's a, a, a, a distortion field around not just pricing, but value and, and, and access.
• 19:48
  Value-based care: - Yeah.
• 19:49
  Value-based care: - That, that I think is, go.
• 19:52
  Value-based care: - Oh, I'm sorry.
• 19:54
  Value-based care: I was just gonna go back to the value-based care thing.
• 19:56
  Value-based care: Cause I know we've been poking fun at you, Dave, but what we say is, you know, we don't need to talk about value based care to, to the everyday person.
• 20:03
  Value-based care: That is then a tool to make sure that we're paying for, our opinion is, that's a tool to make sure we're paying for care that is high quality and people can access it and really transforming the healthcare system.
• 20:12
  Value-based care: But if we look at these 12 solutions from United Solutions of Care, the issues that people want, we cannot get there on a fee for service basis.
• 20:19
  Value-based care: So when we talk to people on the hill or in the state capitals, we say, this is why you should care about this thing called value-based care.
• 20:25
  Value-based care: It is moving us away from the things people hate from this system.
• 20:29
  Value-based care: And moving us towards a place where we can give people mental health, we can give people support as a caregiver, we can give people navigators or care extenders.
• 20:38
  Value-based care: People can understand when they go to the doctor, they can, you know, then see the pharmacist who's on site as well as the, you know, the PT or the OT.
• 20:45
  Value-based care: It really is creating that experience that people want.
• 20:49
  Value-based care: - So John, I'm gonna give you the last question in a minute, but I'm just gonna put out a little communications suggestion there, which is I think the United States of Care should have like a national anthem and it should include something about value-based care in it and, you know, all these free stuff on.
• 21:02
  Value-based care: - What if we don't use that word though?
• 21:04
  Value-based care: What if we don't use value-based care?
• 21:05
  Value-based care: - Oh, use some, I mean, you can say you can use Rampart, you can say o'er, you know, there's all sorts of special words that you can use in an anthem, but that way people can unite about it.
• 21:13
  Value-based care: They stand up at the end and they start cheering for it.
• 21:15
  Value-based care: I think that has the best chance of being successful.
• 21:17
  Value-based care: - Yeah, great idea, David.
• 21:18
  Value-based care: Why don't you, why don't you, why don't you work on that in your free time?
• 21:21
  Value-based care: - Will you help me write it?
• 21:22
  Value-based care: - Yeah, exactly.
• 21:22
  Value-based care: - No problem.
• 21:23
  Value-based care: - So Natalie, I guess, I guess I guess the, the one thing I'd ask is in the next 12 to 24 months, what's the one thing that you think the United States of Care can get done for the average healthcare consumer?
• 21:35
  Value-based care: The, the, the person who's trying, trying to figure out how they're gonna pay their bills, understanding what they're gonna get, and is worried about their healthcare.
• 21:42
  Value-based care: What what can you do for that American patient?
• 21:45
  Value-based care: - Yeah, so I'm gonna see, I'm gonna talk about the convergence of two things.
• 21:49
  Value-based care: One is the end of the public health.
• 21:50
  Value-based care: So I'm gonna talk about access to care through virtual care.
• 21:54
  Value-based care: - I just asked for one.
• 21:56
  Value-based care: I just want one.
• 21:57
  Value-based care: - But they're coming together.
• 21:59
  Value-based care: They're coming together on the hill.
• 22:01
  Value-based care: We have the end of the public health emergency coming at some point.
• 22:04
  Value-based care: We're not sure when, but a lot of the flexibilities that people have really benefited from of seeing a, a, you know, caregiver or a provider virtually, we need the Congress will need to act on that.
• 22:18
  Value-based care: And thankfully this is a bipartisan area where both sides agree we need to act and make sure these flexibilities continue.
• 22:25
  Value-based care: And so we think in the next six months that will happen.
• 22:28
  Value-based care: At the same time as through this end of the year, this idea of mental health through virtual care where we know it's such a need in this country, that with these flexibilities and with Congress's focus probably in a bipartisan way to make sure that people can especially get mental health through a virtual setting is gonna be really important.
• 22:48
  Value-based care: - Well, that's it for yet another addition of Care Talk.
• 22:51
  Value-based care: We've been talking today with Natalie Davis.
• 22:53
  Value-based care: She's the CEO and co-founder of the United States of Care, which you'll be able to hear about on an upcoming album.
• 23:00
  Value-based care: I'm David Williams, President of Health Business Group.
• 23:02
  Value-based care: - And I'm John Driscoll, the CEO of Care Centrix.
• 23:06
  Value-based care: Natalie, thanks for joining us and for our listeners and viewers, if you like who you heard or you didn't, please subscribe.
• 23:12
  Value-based care: (energetic music fades)