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The Immaculate Reception · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: 52 seconds remaining.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Red John again.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Red John running out of the clock.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Looking for somebody that's going to find it down the field.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: and there's a collision.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's cut out of the air.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: The ball is pulled in by Franco Harris.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Harris is going for a touchdown for Pittsburgh.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Franco Harris pulling the football.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know where it came from.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, everybody.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_04: I am Tim Hannon, and with me is uh Steve Ward.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_04: So this month is the 50th anniversary of probably the greatest, most famous moment in the history of Pittsburgh Sports, the Immaculate Reception.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_05: Bill Mazarowski might want to have a word with you about that.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_05: Fair.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_04: Fair.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_04: Normally on the show, when we when we cover a Pittsburgh sports event or moment, you know, we go back, we talk about the context behind it and what led up to it, and then we we kind of deep dive into the into the event.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: Two reasons why why we wanted to do something a little different here.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: One is I think everybody knows the story, right?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody knows about the Immaculate Reception and the context around it and what happened.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_04: And then the second thing is with this being the 50th anniversary, there there are literally going to be dozens of retrospectives in both the local media and the national media.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we wanted to do something, like I said, a little different.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: Steve and I aren't journalists.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: We do the show as fans, and we like to give the fan perspective.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: So we thought it would be fun to talk to a fan who was actually at the game between the Steelers and Raiders on December 23rd, 1972.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: So we're we're going to interview a fan that was there, a gentleman named George Hannon, who is also my dad.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: And my dad's been going to Steeler games for 52 seasons and counting.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: And he's been taking my brother and I for about 35 of those seasons.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_04: And growing up, it was always like really cool that I knew that my dad was there for the Immaculate Reception.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it was like almost akin to like somebody's parents being there for the signing of the Declaration of Independence or something.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and and in the interview we're going to play, he gives a lot of great insight about what it was like being in the stands that day.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: And also just about uh what it was like going to steal games back then.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_04: He talks about like, for example, this guy uh who was kind of like the mafia boss of their second at the River Stadium, Steve.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: What's his name?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_05: Specs.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_05: Specs, yeah.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_05: That was it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_05: You don't want to mess with specs.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_05: You didn't come dressed up like an idiot or jump up in the middle of a play if Specs was around.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_04: Or even or even leave before the final whistle.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_05: Apparently.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_05: I mean Matt that was 35 to nothing, you were staying.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_04: So so yeah, he he gives um, like I said, a lot of a lot of really good insight.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: I I found it really fascinating.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I've I've talked to my dad about that play in that game before, but I even heard stuff that that uh I'd never heard before.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: So we're gonna play that just a little bit later.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh first we we wanted to talk about some possibly forgotten fun facts about the play.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh again, everyone kind of knows the story, so we thought maybe it's something different.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: We'd throw out some things that maybe people aren't aware of.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: And the first fun fact I have uh there are three pieces of footage that exist of this play.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: There's the NFL Films version, that's the uh the one where Franco's kind of running towards the camera, was shot by a guy named Ernie Ernst for NFL Films, and for years that was the only footage of the play.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then uh NBC unearthed their version, their their original game broadcast.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so that's out there now as well.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_04: And then there's also a game film, which to me may be the most interesting version of the play because it shows a wide-angle view.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_04: So the game film is uh where the the teams will film the game so that they can use it for you know game planning and scouting the next week.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and they usually film that from real high up in the stadium, or you know, if you're in the New England Patriots, you do that like under like a coat or something so they can't see you.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_05: Or in the team's pr press uh coaching box.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's just more convenient for everyone that way.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, much more convenient.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_04: But but it's a cool angle because you can actually watch all the players on the field and all the routes that the receivers are running.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's a very wide angle.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_05: So we'll post all three of those on our guy running the uh the coaches film, was his name Abraham Zapruder, Zapruder or whatever.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_05: Back into the left, back into the left, Tim.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: It might have been like a 16-year-old Bill Belichick, for all we know.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh another fun fact, um, there's so there's a lot of guys that were involved in this play that people don't really know their names.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_04: Uh one of them is a guy named John McMakin, who was the Steelers' tight end.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: And the reason that he kind of has a role in this play is because there was a controversy.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_04: So everybody knows the controversy about you know who touched the ball, Fuqua or Tatum, and and then did Franco actually catch it or did he trap it on the ground?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_04: There was a third, less kind of known controversy where the Raiders claimed that McMain dove into the back of linebacker Philip Vilipiano's legs, and and that ref should have called a block in the back.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_05: Filipiano still calls that the yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_05: The greatest clip of all time or something like that, because it's clipping.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_05: It was clipping back when they called it.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean it's it's if you look at the replay, it's I I I don't think he hits him in the back, it's pretty much from the side.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, the Raiders are going to be Raiders.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: Uh McMain doesn't really do much in the NFL, but he later goes on to become an insurance salesman and really uses that uh him being involved in that play to his advantage.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_04: He has these business cards that say always be prepared for the unprepared, with a picture of him in the middle of the Immaculate Reception play.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: So good good on him for being able to exploit that for his benefit.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_04: The name of the play, before it was called the Immaculate Reception, the name of the play as it's called in the huddle, 66 circle option.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_04: And the primary receiver on that play, Steve, any guesses who the primary receiver was?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Frankie Fuqua.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: It was not Frankie Fuqua or Franco Harris.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_05: I I don't know who else was left.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I don't know any hit Steelers receivers in 1972 for a thousand, Alex.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_05: Uh not Lynn Swan or John Stalworth, because they were both in college.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I don't know the other wide receiver for the Steelers back then.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_05: Uh me?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_05: No, I was four years not born.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_04: It's uh it's Barry Pearson.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_05: Ah, well, yeah, he was he was pretty immortal.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: He was he was a rookie wide receiver from Northwestern, and also this is his first ever NFL game.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, whoops.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, it's a uh so he never even got a chance because Bradshaw was under all that pressure running around for his life.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: That's exactly right.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: So so he's in the game because uh you you mentioned 1972 receivers, probably their best receiver that year was a guy named Frank Lewis.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: He had gotten hurt, and that's why they had to call up Pearson from the practice squad.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: And that play was a fourth and ten, and and the the play design of 66 Circle Option was for Barry Pearson to run basically like a 12-yard route to try to get a first down on fourth and ten.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: But as you said, Steve, Bradshaw gets flushed out of the pocket, and that whole play breaks down and he just kind of fires it downfield.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Barry Pearson does come back and start 10 games in 1973 and catches three touchdowns.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: So Barry Pearson does play after this and contributes at least somewhat, but he's the intended receiver on that play.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh did you know that Joe Paterno had a pretty big influence on this play?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I know what story you're gonna tell, yes.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he was in the showers helping out.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh boy.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: No, that's um so Joe Paterno, uh uh at when Franco okay, so let me back up here.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: I threw you off your game with that one.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_04: You did, you did.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: So so Franco Harris on that play was in the block.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: He was not even really a receiver on that play.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_04: And after Bradshaw gets flushed out of the pocket, uh Franco's still kind of just out in the flat.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: And and if you look at again, if you look at that wide angle footage, Franco's standing at the line of scrimmage when Bradshaw releases that pass.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but he makes a B-line down the field, literally 20 yards.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_04: He runs 20 yards down the field towards the football, and that's how he ends up making that catch.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: And the reason he does that is because when he's at Penn State, Joe Paterno had drilled into his head, when the ball's in the air, just run towards the ball.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: No matter what you're doing, run towards the ball.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: And if you look at that that wide angle film, a lot of the other steelers receivers, they just kind of stop and and stand there.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the ones that aren't near the ball, which is understandable, which is probably what a lot of players would do, but Franco just darts towards it because Joe Paul had taught him to do that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: And if he doesn't do that, he's still standing back at the line of scrimmage when the ball ricochets off of Jack Tatum.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, Joe Paterno worked out for everybody there.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_05: It was good advice.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_05: So hey, never, never, you know, normally on those Hail Mary type plays, it's always the guy, you know, standing outside the pile that seems to catch it, never the guy that's actually in the mix.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_04: There was a Carnegie Mellon professor named John Fetkovich, who did a very detailed analysis of the play because the again the controversy was always did it did the ball hit Jack Tatum or Frenchie Fuqua?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_04: And the experiment he did, he was a physics professor, and the experiment he he did was pretty simple.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_04: He threw a football as hard as he could against a brick wall, and it only bounced back a couple of feet.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_04: And so his um his theory that he was trying to prove was Frenchie Fuqua was coming parallel to the trajectory of the football, like that brick wall, and there's no way that the ball could have ricocheted back as far as it did if it hit Fuqua.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_04: But if it hit Jack Tatum, who was coming directly at the ball, okay.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_04: That's the only way the ball could go back that far.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_05: Was that the second law of gravity or whatever?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_05: Second law of uh thermodynamics?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_05: No, it's not thermodynamic.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_05: It's the inertia.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_05: No, it's the opposite and equal reaction.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_05: It's oh okay.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_05: It's the law of like energy or something.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's Newton.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, yes.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_05: Okay only with a football, not at Apple, yes.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_05: And equal equal and opposite equal and opposite reaction.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and that's and that's what he was trying to do.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_05: Who knew we'd turned in an episode of Bill Nye, the science guy?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_04: And and NFL Films actually did a story about that, and they showed him doing this experiment where he was throwing the football against the wall.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: And so in his mind, he conclus conclusively proved that there's no way that the ball could have hit Fuquan because of the way it bounced back.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: But just to follow, that's Newton's third law of action and reaction for all you science nerds out there.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, thank you, Steve.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, for for every action in nature, there's an equal and opposite reaction.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_05: So if and if Jack Tatum hits you really hard, you probably won't remember it.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you, Steve, for clearing that up.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: That definitely would have bugged me for 30 or 40 seconds.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um so a lot of a lot of what-ifs on that play.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: One of the what-ifs I feel like never gets talked about is that Franco almost gets pushed out of bounds at the end of that play.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right around like the six-yard line.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, he he very nearly gets pushed out of bounds.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: And if he gets pushed out of bounds, there's still five seconds left.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_04: Roy Garrilla was the AFC's Pro Bowl kicker that year for the Steelers.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: He hits it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: Come on, he hits it.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, uh, yeah, I mean, it would have been remember the post the field goal posts were still on the goal line.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it literally would have been a six-yard field goal.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I think he probably makes that, and the Steelers win nine to six.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: And if that happens, I just wonder, Steve, do you think do you think the play is as famous as it is today?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_05: That's a good question.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_05: Probably not.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_05: It's just like one of those, oh, look at this quirky play that helped the Steelers win.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_05: Or maybe everybody remembers the play and not the field goal, and the final score is like nine to seven, you know?
• 13:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, you're right.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_05: It would have been nine to seven.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I I don't know.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: I just I always wonder that because I mean he if you look at the replay, I mean, he kind of tiptoes down the sidelines.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: And again, it it would have there still would have been plenty of time left to kick the game-winning field goal, but I just wonder if it would have been as as well known had it not been a touchdown, but it was.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what we all remember.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh as we said, there were five seconds left when Franco scored that touchdown.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: The other thing people don't tend to remember what happened after the touchdown, and everybody talks about the you know, the phone call up to the booth, and and we get into that with my my dad in the interview.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but after they settled all that and called it a touchdown, three plays actually happen in this game after that.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: There's the uh extra point, which is kind of funny to watch if you watch the footage of that, because the Raiders at this point are really ticked off and they're just kind of standing there.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_04: One of the Raiders players doesn't even have his helmet on for the extra point.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so Jarello makes the extra point and then he squib kicks the ensuing kickoff because he doesn't want to, you know, they don't want them to get a return.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: That goes into the end zone for a touchback, and then Kenny Stabler fires up a Hail Mary, and since Kenny Stabler and like everyone else in the world can't throw a football 80 yards, that just kind of falls harmlessly to the ground.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but there are three plays that happen after the Immaculate Reception.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_04: I think people tend to forget that too.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, good they didn't return it, huh?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_05: Could have been could have been Buffalo, Kansas City all over again.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_05: That that that could have been could have been bad.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_04: Uh where is the ball?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: That's another fun fact.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh a fan named Kim Baker nabbed the ball and still has it to this day.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_04: He got it actually after the extra point.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um back then they didn't replace, you know, they've really had like one game ball.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: They didn't have like the kicking ball and the and the regular ball and all that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so after the touchdown, they the refs got the football and they put it on the uh the little hash mark for the extra point as they were deciding whether or not it was going to be a touchdown.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: But then after the extra point was kicked, all those fans had stormed the field and this guy, Jim Baker, he ends up getting that football and uh and and was actually offered a lot of money for it at one point, but he says he won't sell it because his son was born the same week as his play, and his son tragically passed away years later.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_04: So he kind of feels like it should stay in the family.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: It keeps it in like some sort of weird vault somewhere.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: I saw That was on like an episode of Peyton's Places where he went and like saw the football, and you can if you pay him twenty bucks, I think he'll let you look at it.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, whatever.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_04: I I do remember he has it like in some kind of huge vault.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's weird.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe it'll be like an Ocean's 14 where they break in and steal the steal the Immaculate Reception.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_05: George Clooney and Brad Pitt.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_04: Nice.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the the play being called the Immaculate Reception, that that name was given by a fan named Michael Ord uh that that evening after the Steelers win.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_04: He's drinking at a local bar and he gets up on a table, he bang the spoon on his glass, and he proclaims that, quote, from this day forward, December 23rd will forever be known as the Feast of the Immaculate Reception.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: End quote.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh his girlfriend, who's there with him, says, Man, that's a great idea.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: More people need to hear that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: So she calls WTAE TV and she says, Can I please speak to Myron Cope?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: And they put her right through to Myron Cope because, you know, 1972.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_04: And and she tells Myron Cope, you know, this idea to call to play the Immaculate Reception, and Cope's actually hesitant at first because Pittsburgh has a very large Catholic population, and it's kind of a sacrilegious name.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: But Cope does go on the 11 o'clock news and he says, I just got off the phone with a good Christian woman, and she had this idea to call the play the Immaculate Reception.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm disappointed that you didn't use your best Myron Cope impression.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: I would not be able to do that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: But that's that's how that name is born.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_04: It actually takes a few years to catch on.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh NFL Films did a good job documenting how like none of the newspapers or even like the subsequent TV broadcasts, they like show footage from like games from 1973 where they're talking about, oh, that great play that Harris made last year, and no one's calling it the Immaculate Reception at that point.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's really not until two or three years later that people start calling it that.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: But of course, now that's how we all know it today.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, drunk fan at a bar.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_05: It's a good Christian woman, Tim.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_05: Where else would she be on a what was that Sunday evening?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_05: She had gone to church.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_05: She was at Mass.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_05: She was waiting for midnight mass.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right, exactly.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, just kind of funny how that the play got its name.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_04: So so those are just some fun facts.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but now um let me play the interview again.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_04: This is George Hammond, fan at the game, uh, telling about what he remembers from that amazing day.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: Dad, thank you for joining us.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, one of the first things I wanted to ask you was you you've had season tickets since 1971, which was obviously a year before this play.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: What can you go back and tell us what convinced you to get season tickets to the Steelers at a time where you know they basically stunk?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Baseball was king back then.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: That was a tough ticket to get.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I actually I went to the first football game in Tree Rivers Stadium, which was an exhibition game against the Giants, and that was Terry Bradchall's first game.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like the future for the franchise because they already had Joe Green, but um he stunk in that game.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he got tackled in the end zone for safety, threw an interception out of the end zone, and that began his reputation as not being that good and stupid.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: So my friend Mike, his uncle, uh 70 was the first year in Three River Stadium.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh his uncle in '71 offered us we could buy buy the seats.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: We were on probation for 1971.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh because uh Specs controlled eight seats uh and he wanted to see how we uh behaved ourselves at the game.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so 71 was my probation year.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: 72 he transferred the two uh one ticket to me.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that's that's how I got started.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: My friend Mike approached me because his uncle had eight eight tickets, and uh people that had gone to Pitt Stadium uh had had enough with the Steelers and football.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a one-year probation turned into 52 seasons of going to the Steelers games.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's well, that's great.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, a quick question Is Specs the same guy they did the NFL films?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_05: Like I've seen an NFL film special on a guy, or was that a different guy?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_05: Like where they had I remember they had like all kinds of food and like behind the seats in Three River Stadium, like there was an NFL films thing.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_05: Is that the same guy?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I haven't seen that one.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Specs uh bring a gas uh gas station on South Side at the end of the Birmingham Bridge there, like East Carson.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_05: Oh wow, yeah, that definitely doesn't exist anymore.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: Whoa wow.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: But he had a a a gang of guys that went to Pitt Stadium and those were the diehard fans, you know, sit on bench seats totally open.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, so it I guess they had had enough from the 60s, and the ticket prices were a little higher at Three Rivers Stadium, of course.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: So they dropped that.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's why we got started.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_05: How much how much was the price of a ticket back then?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just just for total well when I started, it was seven dollars and fifteen cents.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_05: A game.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And three dollars to park in the stadium what?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: So eight, well, how many no, they played 14 games, so seven games plus what two preseasons?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_05: So 180 got you through.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I guess back in 1971, that probably was a fair fair tongue change.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: And three dollars for parking at the stadium.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: A little different today.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: So so walk us through so December 23rd, 1972 is the divisional playoff game against the Raiders.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_04: Does it is there, you know, what is it like that day?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_04: Does it is there like a bunch of energy going into that stadium knowing that it's a playoff game and the Steelers are never in have never been in a playoff game before?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there was that excitement.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's reminiscent of the Pirates playoff game.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: What is it, 10 years ago?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, except the Pirates have been to the playoffs before, the Steelers never in 40 years never had a playoff game.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, there were there was excitement, but it wasn't uh it was just happy to be there kind of thing.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh the team was just beginning to develop.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think they won eleven eleven games that year.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Mostly because of their defense.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um there was excitement, but the the game was not a sellout.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was only fifteen thousand people there and it sat what fifty-nine I think for football.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't even a sellout, which is why it wasn't televised locally.
• 24:44
  unknown: Okay.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because it had to be a sellout back then, be televised.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: So nobody saw that play except fifty thousand people at the stadium or you know, outside of western Pennsylvania.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think you had to go to Erie to get to watch the game.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: So so you kind of alluded to the fact that it was you know low scoring, wasn't much of a game, it was six-nothing, and then the Raiders put Kenny Stabler in, he runs for this go-ahead touchdown.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: Stewers get the ball back, and I think they they move the ball a little bit, but then it's it's like it's fourth down.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh are you thinking at this point, like what's the what's the energy in the stadium?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: It's fourth and ten before that play.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_04: Is there is there like a a hope that they're probably going to convert this, or is it like you're picking up your coat ready to walk out?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well no, uh Specs wouldn't let anybody leave because you were staying to cheer the players because they had made the playoffs, you know, so he wasn't letting anybody out of the out of the row.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that there was no doubt about that.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think I told you I bought a ticket for my friend at work, and he was sitting in that little permanent pie section behind home plate at Three Rivers Stadium, so he would have had a perfect view of that play.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: So on Monday when I went to work, I asked him about it, and he said he didn't see the play because he was in the Liberty Tunnels.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: He had left when uh Stabler scored, he left the game.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_05: So it was obviously over, 7-6.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: So he didn't know what happened.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: He came out of Liberty Tunnels and they were going nuts and he had no idea what happened.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_04: I can't I can't imagine telling that story for the rest of your life.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: That yeah, I was in the game, but I missed it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, where were you?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_05: I was somewhere in the Liberty Tunnels, yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: So so then, okay, so now it's fourth down.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: Can you sort of describe what you saw?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_04: I know this would have been on the other end of the field from your seats.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: They were going towards uh uh pound plate side of the stadium.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I saw the I think Bradshaw threw four passes, and this was the fourth pass, fourth bound play.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I saw the the ball bounce, and I thought that's it, you know, plays over.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't follow the flight of the ball.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh everybody started cheering, and I said, What happened?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: And they said, Franco got the ball, and you know, he's running running for the end zone.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, he went in the end zone and uh ever everybody's going crazy, jumping up and down, hugging each other, and you know uh the official in the end zone signaled touchdown, but the rest of the officials got together and you know what that means.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it was a good fifteen minutes before they came out and actually signaled a touchdown.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: But uh you know, the the officials never would have made it out of that stadium alive that day had had they rolled anything else.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh back in those days you could actually get out on the field, and there were there were like ten people deep on each sideline, up and down the sideline.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I I can't imagine being an official and saying it's not a touchdown because they couldn't have made it out of the stadium fast enough.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: So but uh yeah, that was a wild scene.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Franco ran into the end zone, uh and they had a uh an army truck there because it was Franco's Italian army, was his fan base, and they had an army truck there in the end zone he ran into.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a group of his fans around that truck, and I mean everybody was mobbing him, and you know, it was just a wild scene.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_04: I want to ask you about the refs huddling because that today, if that happened, uh people would celebrate, but we all know how football works today, where there's replay and there's a thousand you know, hours of the refs have to talk about it and phone in New York.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_04: But back then that was not a thing.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like when a touchdown happened, it was a touchdown.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: And there was no huddling, there was no replay, there was no wait for the refs to announce it.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I I imagine that that must have been very foreign to people.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I just wonder, did did people even realize, like you said, everybody went crazy, but then there's like this long delay between the touchdown and the extra point.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_04: Did it did sort of the reality start to sit into the crowd, like, uh-oh, they're like talking about this?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: I wonder if they're gonna say it didn't happen.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, why are why aren't they calling it a touchdown?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um they didn't put it up on the scoreboard, you know, it and some people had radios back then.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so they they were sort of relaying that you know it was being discussed whether uh the ball uh hit Fuca or hit Tatum, you know.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so we we knew what the discussion was, but every everybody was just impatient waiting to get the game over with and celebrate.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_04: So and then did they come out and I don't remember if they had microphones back then, but did they just come out and like signal touchdown and then everybody saw that?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just like today where the referee comes out on the field and turns on his microphone, signals touchdown.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, they did have microphones back then?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, okay, cool.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_05: And did did the I was gonna ask, did the ball hit the ground?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I guess you didn't see it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_05: You you and French you and Frenchie Foucault are taking that to your graves.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Poor Frenchie.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_04: What was there any uh they had I remember they had the big scoreboard, the center, I think it was center field scoreboard.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Left field.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_04: Left field.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: Was there uh a replay?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um did they have that back then?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so nobody, nobody so people were listening to the radio saying they're they're talking about whether it was illegal play or not, but there was no going in on a on a score scoreboard or a monitor somewhere.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_04: They didn't have that ability to do that yet.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Spex was a roles expert too.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: He knew what they were talking about.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_04: Oh okay, so he knew the role was that at the time that the offensive player couldn't touch it.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Offensive players couldn't touch it, yeah.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, yeah, that had to be nerve-wracking waiting through that.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's nerve-wracking today.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, go back to like this Antonio Holmes catch, right?
• 32:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_04: In the Super Bowl, you had to wait for them to discuss it and look at 14 angles.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_04: But it like today you're kind of trained to know that that's what's going to happen anytime there's it's it's remotely close.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_04: But back then, again, you're used to the when the when the play's over, the play's over.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: There's no there's no discussion.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I imagine that this must have been weird.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Good, bad, or indifferent, they called it.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: The coaches didn't have any challenge flags or anything.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_05: So on Madden couldn't challenge the play.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's funny.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_04: His his contention for years was not he never even contended like Fuqua touched the ball.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: His problem was how did you if you didn't think it was a touchdown when it happened, how did you know 15 minutes later?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what and that I that wasn't a bad point because again, they didn't they weren't looking at a replay.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_04: There was no replay to look at.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't I don't know.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: They're saying there was a replay back then that uh the official could have looked at or they could have looked at up in the booth.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_04: So whoever they were talking to on the phone could have been watching a replay.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: I see what you're saying.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: And that's another point of contention because they were in the I think they were in the pirates' dugout on the phone, and there's a lot of contention apparently about who they were talking to.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: So you know because I think uh not Art Rooney, but Dan Rooney answered the phone.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think Dan Dan Dan was like, yep, it's a touchdown.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Some somehow that phone connected to uh you know Dan Rooney at the time.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: So nice.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's convenient.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: Smart.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_04: So so the CRs win.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: Do you do you remember leaving that game or even like that evening thinking like, man, they're gonna talk about this for years?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: Or was it just well, that was a crazy play we won?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just uh crazy play we won.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that was uh first playoff game in 40 years, and you know, it was basically uh a tie game.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I we led 6-0 for almost 59 minutes, and then uh Stabler replaced Daryl La Monica in the end of the third quarter, and you know, back then uh a quarterback that ran was somewhat unique, and that you know he scored like on a 30-yard uh end-a-round play where I I think it was a design run, and that that was deflating the the lead for 59 minutes and then lose the game on a play like that.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_05: So a lot of uh with the I guess the saying back then SOS, same old Steelers.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think people were just happy to be in a championship game for for once in their life.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean Three Rivers Stadium was basically brand new.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the team had a lot of uh future stars on it.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you could see that things were heading in the right direction, you know, so there was a lot of optimism.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't a crushing uh it would have been a crushing loss, but people would have got over it.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they but they knew they had a future uh that chucked the whole in Dean Rooney were building a a good championship team.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, after the art Rooney years of changing coaches all the time and just being basically a joke for 40 years, you could feel things were starting to change.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: And football was just beginning to get popular in the in the late 60s, early 70s because cover TV came started in the late 60s.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: You could actually see the game in coward and not black and white.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the the games in the 60s were basically one camera along the sidelines of you know, you saw the the game.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was crude, to say the least, so people were just starting to get interested in football.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Pro football.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's it's often the people often attribute that as like the start of the Steeler dynasty, but then they they lost the next week.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: So to your point, they probably still have a dynasty, even if that pass falls incomplete, but because it didn't, now there's just all this Pittsburgh lore and statues and 50th anniversary celebrations and everything else.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well that was the the first uh playoff game, first win.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it set the stage for the future, so but it's also there were only 50,000 people in a 59,000 seat stadium, so you know the interest wasn't there, sadly.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was about 74 before they started selling out the games.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that that play didn't really uh necessarily turn everything around, but it was kind of the it's always associated as that.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like the Steelworks stunk meme active reception happened, and then they were great, and it was a little more comp complicated than that, I guess.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it took some time after that.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_05: That was yeah, that was 72.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_05: They won.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: When they win, 74?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_05: 75?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, 74.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in 75.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_05: What about uh what that fake punt by the dolphins?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_05: Were you were you mad when that happened?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_05: I know Joe Green like says it, uh like some of the defensive players, oh that was a cheap way to win.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's just angry being outsmarted by uh uh Don Shula, you know, because Chuck Knoll used to be an assistant coach for Don Shula, and you know you think he would have known better than that, but you know, it was funny because uh the week after the Immaculate Reception that that was that game, and it was like in the mid-60s in January, you know, and everybody was talking about how Miami would have to come up into the cold weather and play, and that that never happened.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_04: Dad, any other any other thoughts for us before we let you go?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was just uh uh it was a lot of a lot of fun being there and uh it's like a a transition from being a perennial loser and laughing stock to a team that that had a future, which you know, which is why I became a seasoned ticket holder for all these years.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen a lot of good football games and had a lot of fun, a lot of excitement.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_04: So for sure.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_04: Although probably nothing could ever really top that in your you know in your second season of going.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_04: So Oh yeah, yeah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: That was definite.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's something you'll always remember being there for.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: Not too many games that come down to that kind of ending.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, although you you guys were were at the New England game that you thought we won and we didn't at the end.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I hope in 50 years nobody's interviewing me about the Jesse James and not catching the ball.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I really hope that's not the case.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, imagine had the officials done that in 72.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it could have happened.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_05: Fred Swear and Jerr would not be uh probably in good health right now.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm sure he isn't anyway, but yeah.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank God he was the referee that day.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Dan Rooney must have done something.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: Art and Danny and Dan Rooney did something right.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they covered their bets.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, if that game's in Oakland, you do wonder if, and the exact same thing happens, you do wonder if they roll differently.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_04: I I don't think that they knew.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: I don't I think even if you had replay, I don't think that they would have been able to determine it, uh, especially with the you know the the quality of the television then.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: But you do wonder if it's in Oakland if it turns out different.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: But it wasn't, so and now here we are 50 years later celebrating it.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_04: All right, thank you so much for being with us.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_04: We really appreciate you taking the time.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_04: And thanks, Mr.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_05: Hannon.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, good talking to you guys.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: See ya.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_04: All right, folks.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I hope you enjoyed that as much as uh we did.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_04: Again, a lot of great insight there.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_04: And uh Steve, any uh any last thoughts here on this um celebration of this great moment in Pittsburgh sports history of on its 50th anniversary.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_05: Just a fun time to remember.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_05: And boy, you it's great we got that on tape because you know we kind of preserve that for pros posterity's sake.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_05: So it's good to hear a firsthand.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_05: That's you know, when historians look, not that you know historians will be looking at our podcast, but that's actually real life history.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_05: A first hand account of something happened is considered you know very historical facts.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_05: So look at us.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_05: We're doing uh we're doing something, right?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: We are contributing to the annals of the real history.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: All right, folks.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you so much for listening.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um please uh check us out on social media on Twitter or Facebook, our website.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um please subscribe and uh most importantly, please get the word out about our little podcast here.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's probably our best way of getting a listener.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, and we will see you.