Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Dr. Sandra Lee on Being Downsized, Networking Like Crazy, and "Be Brilliant Be Brief" Lesson

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Dr. Sandra Lee on Being Downsized, Networking Like Crazy, and "Be Brilliant Be Brief" Lesson · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:12
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and
0:17
today's guest is Doctor Sandra Lee, chief executive Officer of
0:21
Creative Dining Services. They are a hospitality
0:25
management company that creates custom dining programs for
0:28
colleges, businesses, senior living, communities and more.
0:33
There help organizations build a sense of community through
0:36
fresh, personalized meals and transparent partnerships.
0:41
Doctor Lee brings a wealth of experience, having served as
0:44
division president at Chartwells Higher Education and holding
0:48
executive positions at Auburn Pan, Ruby Tuesday and Olive
0:52
Garden. She has earned several honors,
0:55
including the Olive Garden Michelangelo Award and
0:59
recognition as one of the top 50 women leaders in Illinois in
1:03
2022. And she is a proud U.S.
1:06
Army veteran. Now, before we get into all that
1:09
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All right, back to our guest today, the CEO of Creative
2:08
Dining Services, Doctor Sandra Lee.
2:10
Thanks for making the time to Share your story today.
2:13
Thank you so much for inviting me, Anthony.
2:16
So Sandra, you are AUS Army veteran, was there a specific
2:21
experience when you were enlisted that continues to
2:25
influence how you lead today? Definitely.
2:29
I would say basic training because you're just not quite
2:32
ready for basic training. And when you get in there, all
2:35
of a sudden you're running 3 miles every morning before
2:38
breakfast and you have to, you just have to persevere.
2:41
Otherwise you're going to be sent home and you're not going
2:45
to complete your training. So I would say learning to
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persevere when I was in the military and then watching how
2:52
the drill sergeants really leaned into leadership by
2:55
encouraging and making sure that we understood how to accomplish
3:00
the mission. I mean, I know there are several
3:02
people that just don't go out and run every day.
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And I wasn't one of those. So it was.
3:07
It was something that taught me how to persevere.
3:10
So the picture that I have in my head for movies of drill
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sergeants is not what I would call encouraging.
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It's very aggressive. Was that your experience as
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well? There was a little of that, but
3:24
beneath that is a tenderness and a heart because they want you to
3:29
succeed and they know that potentially it's going to be
3:33
life and death. You may be sent somewhere where
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you have to survive. So there has to be a little bit
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of toughness, but more than anything there's a lot of
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underlying caring for the individual.
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And how long were you in the army?
3:48
Five years active duty all over the world, mostly in Germany.
3:53
OK, did you ever see a war zone? I can tell you I did see some
4:00
enemy fire but not much of A war zone.
4:04
OK. All right.
4:05
So in the armor for five years and then is that shortly after?
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Is that how you found your way into the restaurant and dining
4:13
and hospitality space? Absolutely.
4:16
So when I left the military, I left during the time of a
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recession. So imagine trying to get a job
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and being overqualified because, you know, I'd been in leadership
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training. I was the leadership instructor.
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I was also the precursor of HR, so the only real job I could
4:35
find was delivering pizzas. And I became a pizza delivery
4:40
person because, you know, quite frankly, you have to put food on
4:43
the table and you have to survive.
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And I may have joined, you know, the food services industry
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because at the time there wasn't anything in my field.
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But I can tell you I stayed in it because of the love for the
4:58
business and the people. What?
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What sparks that love? What?
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What is it that you feel so drawn to?
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I believe that as humans, we tend to gather around food,
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family, friends, faith and fire. I mean, when we think about how
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villages first formed and my goodness in the food service
5:20
industry, those are all present. Those elements are all present
5:25
at in some way, shape or form. Now you said that in the Army
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you were involved in sort of the precursor to HR with.
5:34
Did you just have a different name back then?
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It was called personnel management specialist.
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And as you were coming out of the army into civilian life,
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this just wasn't as much of a thing.
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It wasn't, it wasn't. It was, you know, during the
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time of a big recession when jobs were very competitive, very
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difficult to come by. At the time, I did not have a
5:59
complete degree. I had started in the military
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and I had my GI Bill, so that's why I ended up in the food
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service business, in the food service business, because it was
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flexible enough for me to go back to school.
6:13
Not only did you go back to school, but you know, we heard
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in the intro I introduced you as Doctor Sandra Lee.
6:20
So tell us about the doctorate. The doctor came in 2022, not so
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long ago. And in fact, Anthony, you know,
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it took me years to get my bachelor, my bachelor's degree
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because life just happened. Sick mother who I had to take
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care of for a while, sick father who I had to take care of.
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They both unfortunately passed away.
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But you know, willingly, you know, I stepped back from what I
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was doing and my goal of completing college to take care
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of them. And then, you know, once, once I
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was back on my feet, I got a job waiting tables.
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I worked for Darden for a while and went to general manager, won
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the Michelangelo Award, then went into executive positions.
7:09
And it was during that time when I became an area director or
7:13
director of operations that I decided to go back and finish my
7:16
bachelor's degree. So I was well into my 30s before
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I finished my bachelor's degree. And then I became hungry for
7:27
that MBA and immediately went for my MBA at the University of
7:34
Tennessee in Knoxville. Govals had to give them a plug.
7:40
Why was that bachelor's degree so important to you?
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You had now you were on a career path.
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Why divert from that? Now I'll take it back to having
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wonderful parents. My father was drafted into the
7:54
military before he could finish high school, and he always
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encouraged me to get my education.
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And in fact, that was one of the promises I made when he was in
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the hospital in his last few weeks.
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Is he said, please promise me you'll finish your education.
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And I said I would. And I had.
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I just didn't stop because I knew he always wanted what was
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best for me. So it was a leap of faith, but I
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also have an innate curiosity. How do things work?
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You know, what, what can I find and make better or what do
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successful people do? And and I just love to study and
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finishing my, I have a master, an MB AI, also have a master's
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in education in online curriculum development and
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technological implementation from Purdue.
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And then I went on to finish my doctorate in education
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leadership. What was that second masters
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for? What was the purpose?
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The intent? At the time, I was working for
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Obama Pan and I was leading the training department and the
9:03
professional development, and it was at right at the precursor of
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E-learning. It hadn't been widely adopted,
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and I knew that in order for us to scale that we needed to
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embrace e-learning relatively quickly.
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So I decided to go to Purdue after doing a lot of research
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and some of the better programs, and Purdue was ranked among
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amongst the best. So I went back to learn how to
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do that so that we could implement e-learning.
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Wow. And then at some point you
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decide you want to continue with your education, you want to get
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a PhD. Was that also to fill a need and
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where you were in your career at that point?
9:46
Absolutely, Anthony. I was working at Sharkwells.
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I was a senior vice president at the time.
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And you know, presidents of universities, I was in a higher
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education contract, dining services and presidents of
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universities want to speak with like minded people and having a
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doctor in front of your name really opens doors.
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So that was one of the reasons. But the second reason was to
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truly understand the inner workings of higher education.
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So I have a a doctorate in education, higher education
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leadership, so that I could understand as a partner to
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university presidents and to auxiliary services and financial
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services and academic services, what their unique challenges
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were and how that they worked as an institution so that I could
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fold our organization as the true value proposition.
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So that's one of the reasons. And as you were getting each of
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these degrees, the 2 masters, the bachelor's, the doctorate,
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were you also working at the same time through all of these?
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I was full time, very much so. In fact, my bachelor's degree, I
11:03
was in director of operations for the Olive Garden.
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And of course, directors of operations are on call 24/7.
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But you make it work. I mean, one of the things that I
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recommend to anyone is really learn to manage your time, but
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write your goals down so that you never lose sight of your
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goals and you know how to invest your time best.
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Wow. I want to go back a little bit.
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We've kind of gone through a little bit of a chronology here,
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but I want to talk more about the time that you took off to
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take care of each of your sick parents.
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Excuse me, sick parents. I mean, it's amazing that you
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had that in your heart to do that.
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But at a time when you're young and you're just starting your
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career, what was that like for you?
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In hindsight is the best thing I could do.
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When my mother became I'll, I was a general manager with the
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Olive Garden. So I, I stepped down.
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I, I became a server. Imagine, you know, I'm used to
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running a restaurant and then I am serving tables or hostessing
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or cashiering or cooking. And the same with my father.
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You know, I, I was in a higher role at the time, but also I
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just stepped down and waited tables so that I could dedicate
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the time to him. And our parents sacrificed so
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much for us. I mean, think about, you know,
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I, I left home when I was 17 to join the Army.
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And my parents made sure that I had everything I absolutely
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needed. And I knew that they needed me
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to be there for them. And that's why I did it.
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And it didn't hurt my career to go from general manager to
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server or from area director to server in cashier.
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Because life turned out the way it was supposed to be.
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And I do believe in a bit of karma and in the power of doing
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good. So when your parents, each of
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them had passed and you were ready to step back into a more
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senior corporate level role, it wasn't difficult for you to sort
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of, this is the wrong phrasing, but like, reclaim your turf.
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Well, I waited. My father passed away.
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You know, after my father passed away, my husband and I moved to
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Cincinnati, OH and we thought we were going to go to college
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together. And so we were hourly employees
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again. We were waiting tables together
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and one point I said one of us needs to have a full time job.
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We both can't go to college at the same time.
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So I went into management and went, went backed up to kitchen
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manager, to general manager and then I was later on promoted to
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the area director with, with the Olive Garden.
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So I didn't go immediately right, right back in.
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I took my time because I was really searching for what I
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wanted to do next. But once I entered back into
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management and into the executive roles, I I just really
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realized how much I enjoyed it and missed it.
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You know, we referenced this briefly in the intro.
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You have been recognized with some different awards, Olive
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Garden, Michelangelo Award, the Joe R Lee Diamond Club Award.
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What do you think the qualities you possess are that led to
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these awards and you're rising through the ranks in these
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different corporate roles? I believe as leaders we don't
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win awards on our own. It's because of the team that we
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put together and the team that chooses to work with us because
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everyone has a choice. And you know, I, I'd like to say
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that one of my superpowers is building a winning team.
15:03
I'm a big sports fan. You'll hear all about that.
15:05
But I do believe that you have to put a winning team together.
15:10
And instead of focusing on opportunities and what some
15:14
people call weaknesses, I try to focus on leaning into their
15:20
strengths and making sure that each team member strengths
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complements the the, the mission of the team, that we know where
15:27
we want to go and what players we need on that team to get
15:31
there. So let's talk more about that
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superpower being able to build a winning team.
15:37
How do you evaluate talent? Do you have some magic questions
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or processes that you've learned sort of tricks of the trade that
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you can share with folks? When I was in the military,
15:50
Anthony, I remember a drill Sergeant saying to me, you
15:55
always want to be the one that pluses up any organization you
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join. So I look for that team member.
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I'm a big fan of Patrick Lencioni and our organization,
16:11
Creative Dining Services uses the book The Ideal Team Player,
16:16
Hungry, Humble and Smart as our guide to hiring everyone from
16:22
our dishwasher to our senior vice presidents and our C level
16:27
executives. So I would say that, you know,
16:31
just embracing materials that are out there, but truly
16:34
believing in them and living in them and having a plan with the
16:37
team so that they support it is what makes our team function so
16:42
well. How do you evaluate that talent
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or how do you spot it? Because, you know, and you're
16:49
probably a bit removed from a lot of the hiring roles now, but
16:55
I've interviewed lots of people. Some folks interview really well
16:58
and don't work out. Some people don't interview that
17:01
great and end up being star team players.
17:04
Curious to hear what your experience has been like there.
17:08
Oh, I've, I've hired so many people in my career and I
17:10
continue to hire people. So what I look for are, first of
17:15
all, hospitality. You can tell how someone will
17:19
behave with a customer or client by how they even walk into the
17:23
interview. Are they on time?
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Because time is our most precious commodity and asset.
17:29
So wasting someone's time, it's, it's just not acceptable, right?
17:33
So are they on time? Are they dressed as best as they
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can be? And, and that's different from
17:40
are they dressed to the dying nines?
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Because there are, there are people right now who just don't
17:46
have the means, But we have to look beyond that and, and see
17:50
and really look at that individual.
17:53
Are they, are they genuine? Do they smile when they ask the
17:56
question or, or answer a question?
17:59
Are they making eye contacts? And the other thing I look for
18:02
is preparation and curiosity. Are they curious about what we
18:08
do? And are they asking those
18:10
questions? Or are the questions centered
18:13
around the I, the individual? Because individuals contribute
18:18
to the team and the individual needs to be successful, but it's
18:23
ultimately the team that will carry the individual at all
18:27
times. I like that.
18:30
I want to get into what you're doing at Creative Dining
18:33
Services, but first let's talk a little bit about the work you
18:36
did at Chartwells. You joined them in 2017, still
18:40
in the food industry, but a bit different from your other stops.
18:44
Can you tell us about the work that you did there?
18:46
What a learning curve, Anthony. I had no clue about contracts,
18:52
about what universities we're looking for other than the
18:57
hospitality, the quality of food, the timing of the food.
19:01
So I I had that and I also knew how to build a team, but
19:06
learning the language of higher education, learning how to write
19:11
really good contracts that are two sided, that benefit both
19:15
parties and not just our organization.
19:20
So that was a very interesting time for me.
19:23
But I can tell you, I had mentors, people who cared.
19:26
Again, you know the drill Sergeant, there's always
19:29
someone, if you look close enough, who is raising their
19:33
hand, waiting for you to ask them to help you.
19:37
So I don't shy away from asking for help.
19:40
And in fact, my first account pursuit was a very large
19:44
organization and I felt I was way in over my head.
19:49
And I called the CEO at the time, it was a woman by the name
19:53
of Lisa McEwen. And I said, I have no clue how
19:58
to do this. I'm going to need help.
20:03
And I promise you, I will be a great student.
20:07
And she assigned a mentor to me, another regional vice president,
20:11
but she was waiting for me to raise my hand.
20:14
And, you know, then he continued to mentor me.
20:17
His name was Nadeem Safar. In fact, he's one of the Co OS
20:21
now at Chartwells and he taught me a lot about contracts and
20:26
there was just so much patience around me where people were
20:30
willing to take the time and explain contract food services
20:34
because I understood food services.
20:37
So yes, it was quite different, but quite rewarding.
20:42
I like this story because I think it's really hard for most
20:46
people to ask for help. And I think there's a couple of
20:50
components there. One, it's hard just to admit to
20:53
yourself, let alone to anyone else, that you need help, that
20:56
you're behind the curve, that you are not where you are
20:59
supposed to be or want to be. And then I think the other
21:04
component for a lot of folks is I'm going to be bothering them
21:07
like they're busy. Like what would you say to those
21:10
things? I say we have to get over that
21:13
fear. We have to allow ourselves to be
21:17
vulnerable. And we're only human.
21:20
We do not possess the knowledge of the entire universe
21:24
individually, but collectively we do.
21:27
And that's when we have to to raise our hand.
21:30
It is not a sign of weakness when we raise our hand and say I
21:35
need help. In fact, I always view that as a
21:39
sign of strength, the willingness to admit what we
21:42
don't know so that you don't potentially make an even larger
21:47
mistake. So I'd say get over the fear of
21:50
you're interrupting them, you're bothering them.
21:53
If I, if I want to reach out to someone, I usually text them and
21:56
say, do you have a moment I'd like to discuss approach.
22:00
And I always let them know what I'd like to talk about so that
22:04
they can prioritize their time instead of saying, could you
22:07
call me that? That gives them no context.
22:10
If they're in a meeting, is it an emergency or can we make a
22:14
time later today? I like that.
22:16
So you're texting them, which is a tiny interruption, but you
22:20
know, it's an asynchronous form of communication so they can get
22:24
back to you when it's good for them.
22:26
You're asking for the help and you're giving context for what
22:29
it is that you want to talk about.
22:31
So they know they have some sense of, oh, is this a 3 minute
22:34
conversation? Or is this, you know, something
22:36
that's going to take quite a bit longer?
22:38
That's right. Any other tactics around that?
22:41
Because I really like that because, you know, people are
22:43
listening, they're OK, I need to ask for help, how do I do it?
22:46
And that's brilliant. Any anything else to share?
22:49
I would say, you know, I keep notes.
22:51
Sometimes it's index cards, a lot of times it's the notepad on
22:55
my iPhone. But I know exactly when I what I
22:59
want to talk about. And I also know when I don't
23:02
know what I don't know and, and I will approach the conversation
23:05
when here's what I'm thinking. However, here's where I'm
23:09
gapping. Can you help me fill in the
23:11
blanks so that I'm not just rambling or they're not trying
23:15
to figure out where I need the help?
23:18
So be prepared. I mean, preparation is just one
23:22
of those. It's, it's a talent.
23:24
Just be prepared when you come to a conversation.
23:27
Oh, I love that. Because you want to be
23:28
respectful at their time, right? Because the next time that you
23:32
need assistance, if you need to go to that same person, you want
23:36
them to have a memory of you being prepared and efficient and
23:39
ready to go. So kind of have a script or an
23:42
outline ready before you reach out and ask for that help.
23:46
And that's, that's so true, Anthony.
23:48
In fact, I, I give all sorts of credit to Lisa because the first
23:51
time I asked her for help, I wasn't quite so succinct,
23:55
succinct or concise. And Lisa was like, she just
23:58
said, be brilliant, be brief. And I, I remember that.
24:03
And in all of my interactions, I try to just be brilliant, be
24:06
brief and be very respectful of that time.
24:10
And it is a skill that I didn't possess.
24:13
I, I wasn't born with it. And it was one obviously later
24:17
and you know, after 2017 that I actually started working on it.
24:21
So another bit of advice I would give anybody is it's never too
24:25
late to learn a new skill or to even do something better that
24:30
you might have been struggling love.
24:33
That love that a lot. OK, so how did the opportunity
24:36
to join Creative Dining Services come about?
24:41
Well, you know, when you talk about life's challenges, we all
24:45
have those challenges. And when I was with O Bong Pan,
24:49
we were preparing for a sale and we brought in a new CEO and I
24:55
kind of saw the handwriting on the wall.
24:57
I knew, oh, oh, this means a reorganization.
25:02
So I went through a reorganization at Beaubont Pen
25:07
and for anyone who has ever been riffed, that is very humbling.
25:15
It's. Can you explain that?
25:16
Rift at reduction in force or let go or downsize.
25:21
There's so many, you know, words for it, but ultimately is your
25:26
cut from the team and your first instinct is I'm not good enough
25:33
for the team and why did the team not embrace me or why
25:38
didn't somebody fight harder for me or I'm a failure?
25:44
That's our first instinct is to lean into becoming the sole
25:50
guest at our self induced pity party.
25:53
And we have to get over that. Because what I realized during
26:00
that time of being cut from a team and it was the first time
26:05
was that it wasn't about me necessarily.
26:09
It was about them needing different skill sets for mergers
26:14
and acquisitions. And at the time I was in
26:17
training and leadership development and we already had
26:20
established that foundation. So for anybody who is listening,
26:26
being let go isn't necessarily about you.
26:30
It's about what the organization needs at the time.
26:34
And understand that every every one of those incidents in your
26:40
life opens another door. My husband has a wicked sense of
26:46
humor and he says if a door closes, find another door to
26:50
open. It's a door, you walk through it
26:54
and I believe that, you know, somebody say, well, the window
26:57
opens and opportunity will open up.
27:00
And that's what happened with me, with Obampan.
27:04
I, I was downsized. I was given the opportunity to
27:07
work with an agency to write resumes and all of that, but I
27:11
didn't get my job doing that. What I did is I was networking.
27:15
I took the time after two weeks of feeling sorry for myself and
27:19
binge watching some of my favorite shows to make my full
27:24
time job. Getting a full time job and I
27:28
networked like crazy. I went and talked to people that
27:32
I'd worked with. I got very active on LinkedIn.
27:35
I went to different meetings and I volunteered to help people.
27:40
And it was through that networking that I was introduced
27:44
to somebody at Delta Airlines who asked me to help them source
27:49
great team players for a newly established airline catering at
27:55
Boston Logan Airport. So it's, it's, it was very
28:00
circuitous. But the the one thing I learned
28:04
that I recommend to anyone is network and look at every
28:08
interaction that you may have, whether it's in a grocery store,
28:13
library, as something that will potentially help you or the
28:18
other person because there are other people out there doing the
28:21
same. Sandra, can you say more about
28:23
your approach to networking because for some people that
28:26
were kind of takes on a little bit of a scuzzy feeling.
28:29
How do you approach it? Well, he would not not know it
28:32
now, but I'm a little bit shy by nature and it really took me
28:38
finding somebody else who was in the same position said let's go
28:42
to this meeting and 1st listen to what people say.
28:46
Of course, I took my stack of business cards and my contact
28:50
information, but usually at the first meeting I was evaluating
28:55
what others were doing and then, you know, trying to get more
28:59
comfortable with the different people in the room.
29:02
And then maybe by the second or third meeting, I became more
29:05
outgoing, more introducing myself and then realizing
29:11
networking is not, it's not that scuzzy thing.
29:14
It truly is how businesses and relationships work.
29:19
You just never know who is going to reach out to ask you to join
29:25
them or to have you know you may want to have them join you, but
29:29
it's nothing to be afraid of. Just be yourself.
29:33
I like that. Be yourself.
29:34
And you know, one of the things that I think has helped me over
29:37
the years and some of my guests have helped me put words around
29:40
this is rather than approach networking as a what can I gain
29:45
from this person? What can I take?
29:47
It's where is my opportunity to give, Let me listen, let me
29:51
learn what it is that they do. Do I know somebody that might be
29:55
helpful to them? That's exactly right.
29:59
And in fact, you know, one of the meetings I attended later on
30:04
when I landed a new position, I hired them.
30:09
So it worked for several of us. And like I said, don't be afraid
30:14
to ask. Don't be afraid to tell people.
30:16
Look, you know, I'm, I'm in between roles.
30:19
I'm waiting for my next great role.
30:21
If you hear of anything, would you mind letting me know?
30:25
And I will do the same for you. And then do it.
30:30
I like that. So tell us, Sandra, about the
30:33
work that you're doing at Creative Dining Services.
30:35
What is this company? This is a mighty little company.
30:41
And in fact, you know, when I think about where I worked at
30:44
Chartwells and how much managed revenue I had, I mean it was it
30:48
was behemoth and Creative Dining Services is much smaller, but
30:54
we're a contract food services company that isn't a vendor.
30:58
We're a true partner and we were founded by two Christian based
31:03
universities that were unable to find dining partners to take
31:10
care of their students. So they decided to form their
31:14
own company, and that's the genesis of our organization, 2
31:19
faith-based colleges, understanding the needs of the
31:23
students and food services and then saying we can do this
31:27
better. And we've grown to, you know,
31:31
more than 70 locations in 16 states from those two
31:34
universities. And a lot of that growth has
31:38
been organic through referrals, through networking.
31:42
I mean, again, I come back to the networking, but referrals,
31:45
you never know who's listening to your story that's inspired or
31:50
who's listening that says I have a need that they can fill
31:54
because it resonates with me. Their message resonates with me.
31:59
So we do everything from independent boarding schools K
32:04
through 12 to senior living to corporate dining to higher
32:09
education and camps and conferences.
32:12
So we're all over the map and we have experts in each of those
32:16
fields leading those. And So what specifically are you
32:20
doing, Let's pick like a college or university.
32:23
You are staffing and completely running the dining hall
32:27
operations. Is that correct?
32:28
Absolutely. And we're running what they call
32:31
retail locations, coffee shops. So not only do we provide the
32:36
food, the beverage, of course we have quality, high quality food.
32:40
We have chefs at each of our locations.
32:42
So it's not just, you know, throwing some food together,
32:46
it's really well thought out menus.
32:49
We provide food for for people who have allergies, sensitivity
32:53
to foods, what I also call diet restrictions, what dietary
32:58
restrictions, whether it is their choice as in vegan or
33:03
they, you know, have to have gluten free.
33:06
We do all of that. But more than anything, we serve
33:10
food with a smile and we believe in service.
33:14
We serve the communities in which we operate, whether that's
33:20
outside the four walls or whether it's on the campus, the
33:24
corporate campus, the the camp or the university campus.
33:29
We serve the people there. So Sandra, when you talk with a
33:34
new prospective client, are they traditionally thinking about
33:39
moving from managing it themselves to having you do it
33:43
or are they moving from another third party service to you?
33:49
It could be either and in fact, we know we've competed against
33:52
other contractors and one we do. I think our people are our
33:58
differentiator, our passion for doing it right the first time
34:02
and that that need to serve. You know, you can always tell,
34:06
you know, when somebody has that discretionary behavior, right?
34:09
They, they smile, they'll pick up a piece of paper off the
34:12
floor, they'll hold the door open without being asked.
34:16
They say please, they say thank you.
34:18
It's just who they are. And then we also work with the
34:23
self operators because sometimes they just need to understand the
34:27
purchasing of food and we have partnership.
34:31
We've partnered with them in different ways.
34:33
For example, sometimes we just go in and help them manage and
34:36
other times we will take it all over and incorporate them onto
34:40
our team. And why are they typically
34:44
looking for your help if they're already operating it on their
34:47
own? What advantages are you guys
34:49
bringing to the table? There is power of purchasing and
34:53
you know, we deal in a lot of volumes, so we tend to get some
34:57
incredible prices. We also get great pricing with
35:01
great product. The other thing is that
35:04
knowledge, because now we increase their knowledge and
35:08
they increase our knowledge. So working together is they
35:12
don't know what they don't know and we bring in different fields
35:16
of expertise, whether it's innovation, whether it's writing
35:20
great menus, whether it's catering.
35:22
That absolutely amazes and wows all of the donors.
35:27
They may not have seen that and we can bring all that to the
35:30
table and make it happen for them.
35:35
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.
35:36
Whether you're talking about a college and university or
35:39
corporate environment or senior, like they have to do so many
35:44
different things. They are not the experts in
35:48
hospitality and food service like you guys are.
35:50
That is all that you do. You focus on it all the time.
35:53
You got these massive purchasing contracts, better pricing there
35:56
and you've just done this over and over again in so many
35:59
different environments. So that you're you're pulling
36:02
from a depth of expertise that would be unknown to them.
36:07
That's correct, Anthony. And we're always curious.
36:10
Our team is, is attends conferences, they they learn
36:13
from others. We, we are, we strive to just
36:17
get better and better. And the other thing is a self
36:20
operator doesn't have the resources we have.
36:23
So let's say all of a sudden they're going to do a tailgate
36:27
1000 people, they may not have the means to do that.
36:31
And we can bring in people from nearby different partnerships
36:34
that we have that can support them.
36:37
So now they have. They've just exponentially
36:41
increased their ability to deliver even greater things to
36:45
their constituents. I like that you guys really put
36:49
a lot of focus on being able to personalize your service to what
36:54
the client needs you use that tailgate example was a good one.
36:59
Is there another one that you can share with us that kind of
37:01
highlights that? Absolutely.
37:06
Donors especially, you know, high dollar donors,
37:09
universities, you know, we all know higher education right now.
37:12
You know, a lot of funding has has been cut off or you know,
37:16
it's just what happens and you know, there are donors out there
37:20
that are willing to come and you know, it fund a building or
37:26
completely, you know, fund a new program.
37:29
And we want to make sure that they get that top notch
37:33
experience. And the president and the board
37:35
of trustees always want the university to look their best.
37:41
And having those high end catering meals where it's black
37:46
tie and the food is just something that hits social media
37:51
and is burned into their memories for a long time really
37:55
helps to get more of those donations.
37:59
So yeah, we do quite a bit of those and we personalize it to
38:03
the university with the colors or, you know, with the
38:06
organization that that may be sponsoring it.
38:10
And then we find something to personalize.
38:12
You know, if there's a special donor that they would like us to
38:15
focus on, we make sure we do background on them so that we
38:21
come prepared. Can you give me an example
38:24
without using any names on somebody you prepped for?
38:28
Yes, you know, around Michigan there are a lot of buildings
38:32
with a lot of different names, but there are, you know, 5 or 6
38:35
very prominent ones. And we were, we were catering A
38:40
donor dinner and one of those donors was that person and our
38:46
team looked at what they done recently.
38:48
They found out that they had done a really nice event with
38:53
Boys and Girls Clubs. And we could lead into that
38:56
because we had recently also done a charity event for a Boys
39:00
and Girls Club. And it was one of those things
39:03
where there was an immediate connection.
39:05
And that connection, you know, it's a memory they'll have from
39:09
that dinner. And hopefully it inspired them
39:12
to just continue giving like they've so generously done
39:16
before. Now, Sandra, you've been in this
39:19
role, the CEO role in Creative Dining Services for just about a
39:22
year. When you first started, what was
39:26
a big initiative that you undertook?
39:30
How we hire team members, the hungry, humble and smart.
39:34
All of the executives have read the book.
39:37
That was one of the first initiatives.
39:40
And then another book that we were working through is Extreme
39:45
Ownership by Jocko, and I'll remember his name a little
39:49
later, but Extreme Ownership. So we talk about critical
39:53
thinking and empowering our team.
39:56
So that that's a little different, is making sure that
39:59
we give them the tools and then we empower them because we're
40:02
hiring the best. We should just get out of their
40:05
way and do what they're so great at.
40:08
What are some other initiatives that are either underway or that
40:12
you've got kind of in the top of mind that are coming?
40:16
Well, we believe in innovation and we're always looking for a
40:21
way to connect more with our customers and to, you know, kind
40:26
of bring them something they haven't had before.
40:29
So we've just recently piloted a, a global concept that's very
40:35
much embraced by, you know, whether it's corporate dining
40:38
and even in camps and conferences from the the smaller
40:42
children five years to the age of 18.
40:45
So that was one of the initiatives and that was started
40:48
before my time. And then, you know, the other
40:51
initiative is just making sure that everyone understands that
40:56
is a Pittsburgh Steelers expression for Mike Tomlin.
41:00
The standard is the standard. We talk about what's the
41:04
standard and why would we deviate from the standard unless
41:08
we're actually going above and beyond that standard.
41:13
Can you say more about the program that was piloted?
41:17
Oh, yes, it was, you know, we find that more of our students
41:23
and more of our customers really have allergies to food, food
41:27
sensitivities. So we piloted at international
41:31
cuisine that is completely free of all of the 9 allergies.
41:36
So still working on that. We're, we're going to be
41:39
introducing it into one of our universities here pretty soon,
41:43
but it's so important that students who have allergies
41:46
don't feel like they're a little bit marginalized.
41:50
We want them in the main dining area.
41:53
We want them going to, you know, where we serve our allergy free
41:58
foods, but it also is in the main dining area because we want
42:02
them to feel part of that student community and to feel
42:05
like they belong. Wow.
42:08
Do you see this being more of a niche kind of a thing, or do you
42:13
see this being popular more globally?
42:18
I do see it being popular more globally because the food tastes
42:22
so great and you wouldn't even realize it didn't have the the 9
42:26
allergies in it because the 9 allergens in it because they
42:30
have these great substitutions or you know, great vegetables,
42:35
etcetera. So there are ways to make food
42:39
that are free of those allergens that absolutely taste great.
42:42
And if you didn't tell somebody it was free of allergens, they
42:45
wouldn't know that because they would gravitate to that
42:47
freshness. So what are we talking about?
42:49
Like peanuts and dairy? What's?
42:53
Soy, you know, wheat, those types of things.
42:57
Absolutely. And you know, it is as much as I
43:01
had to say it, but it is, it could it could send somebody to
43:05
the hospital if they ingest something that they're severely
43:08
allergic to. So we we really make sure that
43:12
we label all of our allergens in all of our dishes.
43:15
So they can look at, we have icons, they can look at the icon
43:18
and say, oh, that has dairy, I can't do it or that doesn't have
43:22
fish. I'm good, OK.
43:26
We've talked a little bit about sports and how important that is
43:30
to you. You mentioned one of your teams,
43:32
Tennessee Volunteers. Who else is in your stable
43:36
there? Oh, my goodness.
43:38
So at college and university, my husband's a Razorback.
43:41
So we're very much the SEC house divided, you know, we cheer for
43:45
our own teams till the other one loses, and then we cheer for the
43:48
other person's team. And then in terms of, you know,
43:54
other teams, you know, the like the NFL, my goodness, I, I've
43:58
been a Steelers fan since forever, you know, way back when
44:02
the Bradshaw days, of Roethlisberger days and when I
44:06
lived in Boston. Of course, it couldn't help but
44:08
be a Patriots fan during the Brady era.
44:11
But I'm just a complete, you know, sports fan because when I
44:16
think about what they're doing on the field, it feels a lot
44:20
like they're building a great team.
44:21
Everyone knows what they need to be doing so that the team
44:25
ultimately gets to the Super Bowl.
44:27
And I say to our team, every partnership that we win and earn
44:33
is our Super Bowl. So that's that's kind of why I'm
44:37
a sports nut. I just believe that it's all
44:39
about teamwork. You know, we're recording this
44:42
the day after Indiana University beat the Miami Hurricanes for
44:46
the national championship. That's right, Coach Cignetti
44:50
took the one of the losingest programs in all of college
44:54
football history and in two years turn them into an
44:57
undefeated national champion. What do you take from that
45:01
storyline? Well, first of all, my Vice
45:05
president of New Partnership Development has been a die hard
45:10
fan forever and we have all been rooting for the Team Indiana,
45:16
like, you know, wearing the Indiana logo in the office,
45:20
etcetera. So what I take from that is
45:23
never give up. Your season is coming.
45:27
He built a great team that the mission was clear we're going to
45:31
win. And by golly they did.
45:34
And how did they win? I mean, it was just everybody
45:37
said they couldn't do it. You know, I for me, my take away
45:42
is there people in all of our lives who may not believe
45:46
there's something we can do, but if you believe in yourself and
45:49
you believe in your team, you're unstoppable.
45:52
And that win last night was just something I was even celebrating
45:57
while I was traveling and I was like, oh, Jeff is going to be so
45:59
excited and I'm sure he's over the moon today.
46:04
You know, it's interesting you mentioned the Steelers.
46:06
I'm a Browns fan. Condolences are appreciated.
46:10
And my wife is a Steelers fan. And so we've had a similar kind
46:14
of arrangement to the way you and your husband do with
46:16
Tennessee and Arkansas. So I when our teams play each
46:20
other, obviously I'm rooting for my team for the rare win.
46:23
And likewise, you know, when we're not playing each other, I
46:27
want my wife to be happy. I'm rooting for her.
46:30
So hoping you guys find a good coach, but one that's worse than
46:37
ours. I understand, Anthony.
46:41
Our time has come. Anyways, let's let's get back to
46:45
creative dining services. What does the future look like?
46:47
Where are you guys growing new industries, new services?
46:52
Talk to me. And we are definitely growing in
46:55
new states. You know, our plan is to at
46:59
least add two more states over the next year and then to
47:03
continue adding States and then moving more into the senior
47:09
living space. We are such a, we're such a
47:12
great fit for that just given our need to serve, our desire to
47:16
serve and to really bring that hospitality.
47:20
But understanding, you know how our, you know, I call it senior
47:27
senior dining, it truly is lifestyle dining.
47:30
Just because somebody may be older doesn't mean they don't
47:33
want great food. So we're really leaning into
47:36
that now and have actually established A partnership with
47:39
an organization to wrap that up much quicker.
47:43
Interesting. A partnership.
47:45
And so that would be somebody who's already selling into the
47:50
senior living space, OK. Yes, but they're adjacent.
47:53
So they're not in the food services aspect of it.
47:57
They're more into the supply aspect of it.
47:59
OK. How fascinating.
48:02
And you mentioned that, you know, moving into two new states
48:06
until you said that it hadn't really occurred to me that
48:08
there's probably like a, you know, a logistical, it's like if
48:13
if you're not in, I'm going to make it up the state of
48:16
California, you haven't gone West of the Mississippi yet.
48:19
There's some logistical challenges there with having the
48:22
right team on the ground, having supply chain in place, etcetera.
48:26
Am I thinking about that correctly?
48:27
You're absolutely thinking about that correctly.
48:29
In fact, you know, would you like to join our team because
48:33
really that those are the considerations and we will not,
48:37
we do not want to commit to going out where we do not have
48:41
someone close by that and support them or that we don't
48:45
have the supply chain. So our primary partner in our
48:49
supply chain is really has really grown with us and
48:53
they've, they've done a lot to help us move into other states.
48:57
So we work very closely with them and appreciate their
49:01
willingness to help us scale up as they scale up.
49:06
Mine is a true partnership there.
49:08
What role is AI playing in Creative dining services today?
49:15
My goodness, we are just at the tip of that and and I believe
49:19
that you know our entire country is at the tip of that.
49:22
But we are looking at AI just in terms of food waste because we
49:28
we do not want to throw food out that somebody could have eaten
49:32
or over prepare food. So AI is very helpful in terms
49:36
of helping us with our production planning and our
49:39
ordering so that our product doesn't expire or we don't over
49:43
produce. And there is some great
49:46
organizations out there that are piloting that and we're working
49:50
with them to see if they can back into each of our different
49:54
sectors because we have such a different business model from
49:58
from K through 12 or corporate dining or you know, even going
50:02
into senior living in camps and conferences.
50:05
But I do believe that AI is something that can serve us well
50:10
if we use it judiciously and smartly.
50:14
And so the examples that you just gave there, it sounds like
50:18
you're working with third party vendors who are custom creating
50:22
these tools rather than sort of developing them in house.
50:25
That's correct. I go to the experts.
50:28
We're experts in great food, great service, engagement and
50:32
connection, but we're not the experts in AI.
50:36
So definitely I believe in using their expertise to help our
50:40
team. And in terms of growth for you
50:42
guys, you've mentioned a lot comes from referrals, talking
50:45
about different partnerships that are really valuable.
50:49
What other growth levers do you have?
50:51
We have a sales team. In fact, we're adding to our
50:53
sales team, we're adding a few more because you know, we, we
50:57
want to establish a relationships before and a
51:00
request for proposal comes out. Because when the request for
51:04
proposal comes out, you're usually behind and you're just
51:06
one of many that they've sent it to.
51:09
So then you have to work harder to get your story to them and
51:12
you know, really to connect with them.
51:14
So really increasing that sales team being led by a very happy
51:20
Indiana fan, which is a gentleman by the name of Jeff.
51:25
OK. And So what is that relationship
51:28
building look like in advance? You know he's going and knocking
51:32
on doors at places that may or may not ever put out an RFP.
51:37
That's true. We do a lot of studying that
51:40
curiosity. We do our homework, we're
51:42
prepared. And what we do is we try to find
51:44
what I call intersectionality. What have they done that we
51:48
might have done or what do they need that we can provide?
51:53
And we go into, you know, cold calling with satisfying a need.
51:58
We don't just go in and say, hey, we're one of many.
52:01
We come in and say our understanding is that this is an
52:06
area of concern for you and I'd love to spend some time talking
52:10
with you about how we can partner and alleviate some of
52:13
that pain for you and. That's generally well received.
52:18
It is, it is and, and we attend a lot of conferences where we
52:23
make new friends, our partners, our friends, their family, our
52:26
one of our core values is family and they truly become part of
52:30
the creative dining services family and we become part of
52:33
their family, whether it's a corporation or university.
52:38
Sandra, I know that you're a big fan of helping to inspire others
52:43
not to give up when they hit hardship.
52:44
When we've talked about some of the challenges that you've been
52:47
through in your life, I wonder if there's another one that you
52:51
would care to highlight to help give people another
52:55
inspirational story to show that when you hit the hard thing in
52:58
life, you don't throw in the towel.
53:00
Oh, my goodness. Yes.
53:04
There was a time where, you know, my husband and I were a
53:08
bit overextended. We were just overextended.
53:12
And unfortunately, these things happen because you're paying for
53:14
college, you're paying for so many different things.
53:17
And, you know, we had to say we're going to give up
53:22
everything. We're going to move to a smaller
53:24
place. We are going to start over.
53:26
We're going to tighten our belt and we talked about all of those
53:30
things that we thought we needed that we didn't the need what we
53:34
the IT was a want, not a need. So we, we caught it all back to
53:40
just what we needed. And that's what we did.
53:42
And it wasn't easy. It wasn't always fun.
53:46
You know, there are people going out to dinner all the time or
53:48
going to movies all the time. And we were going over to
53:51
friend's house to watch, you know, cable because we we cut
53:54
off cable. So these things happen.
53:57
But it's OK. It's OK to some people may call
54:01
it a fail. It's OK to fail because you're
54:04
going to come out of it stronger if you don't give up.
54:07
And if you use critical thinking and all of your resources and
54:11
your inner determination to get past it, you will get past it.
54:18
You know, I'm glad that you shared that specifically.
54:20
And it sounds rather innocuous, but the, the giving up the
54:23
cable, you know, I think that in, you know, our society,
54:27
there's some things that people just feel like are a given, a
54:32
must. Like you can't go without them.
54:34
And if they are in a similar situation where they really need
54:37
to tighten their belts, they might not be thinking about
54:40
things like that, which you know, can save over $1000 a
54:45
year. You know, which for, you know,
54:46
somebody that's looking to right the ship that that's significant
54:50
money. What, what else?
54:51
If you as you think back to that time, what were some other belt
54:54
tightening tactics that you used?
54:57
I think many can relate with this.
54:59
It was that special coffee that you get on your way to work.
55:03
You know, that's that special drink and you know those are
55:06
five 6-7 dollars. Imagine doing that every day
55:11
that had to go. That was one of the first things
55:13
that that went. And of course, eating at, you
55:15
know, going out to dinner or, or breakfast or anything, it was it
55:18
was a bowl of cereal and milk and it became fuel.
55:21
We we started looking at our food as the fuel we need it.
55:26
And then of course, back then we were clipping coupons when he
55:29
clipped coupons. So all of those things and they
55:32
added up and then we would start putting that money aside and
55:35
then paying down things. So, but there's a, well, there's
55:39
a way. Just have to think your way
55:40
through it and be willing to give give up some things.
55:43
Yeah, short term pain for the long term gain, right?
55:47
That's correct. How?
55:48
Long was it between when you made the decision that you were
55:51
going to make these difficult cutbacks to when you would kind
55:54
of right sized everything? Two years.
55:57
It was about two years, but we, we came out so much stronger.
56:02
We're, we're, we're together. You know, money never got in
56:06
between, you know, us, it never became that issue.
56:09
So I, I have to say I feel very fortunate.
56:12
But it, it was 2 tough years. But now we're we think about
56:16
what we do. And it, you know, it, it comes
56:21
to me and having had this conversation with you, Sandra,
56:23
that mindset is a big deal for you.
56:27
The way that you approach things, the way that you get
56:30
your mind healthy and ready every day.
56:33
What, what is your approach? What?
56:35
What practices, habits do you use?
56:39
I say it out loud every morning, I write it down every night, and
56:44
on my way home from work, I take that time in the car to reflect
56:50
on the work day. So it's those three steps.
56:54
It's say manifest what you want by saying it out loud and
56:59
writing it down and then reflect on how close he came to it or
57:04
what additional steps you may take to achieve it.
57:08
So an example would be I want a $10,000 raise this year.
57:13
And so you're going to say that out loud?
57:15
Write it down, reflect on it. Absolutely, absolutely.
57:19
You know, I, I didn't put a number, but I remember saying I
57:23
want to make significantly more money at one point in my life.
57:27
And I every morning I said that and I said I wanted it for my
57:31
education. And then at night I would say,
57:34
OK, what do I have to do to make that happen?
57:37
And then I would reflect on it, you know, any opportunity I had
57:40
and it it works out, you have to be willing to sound a little
57:45
foolish, look in the mirror and say, I want, you know, for those
57:48
of us who struggled with weight, I, I struggled with my weight.
57:51
I wasn't going to wish it off, but I had to take the first step
57:55
and say I want to be healthy. And healthy to me is good muscle
58:01
tone and less weight. You know, that to me was
58:04
healthy, right? And I wrote it down.
58:07
I said it every morning. And then I would reflect, did I
58:09
eat healthy today? Where could I have done better?
58:12
And you know, after a while, things just start happening and
58:16
you don't even think about it anymore.
58:17
It just it, it becomes your reality.
58:21
So I like the ending part that you added on.
58:25
It's a lot of, I hear some similar advice from folks where
58:28
it's like, yeah, write it down, mail it to yourself, say it out
58:32
loud, etcetera. And I think those are a good
58:35
things, helpful things. But then the part that you
58:38
added, at the end of the day, you reflect and you say, OK, now
58:41
what steps can I take to get me there?
58:44
So it's not waiting for a magic wand to be waved.
58:47
It's I'm putting this out there, I'm saying it, I'm confirming
58:52
it. I I'm, I'm saying it out loud so
58:54
that my brain and my body can hear it and then I do the
58:57
reflection on OK, but how can I get there?
59:00
That's right, continuous improvement.
59:03
No, I love that. What's your favorite thing to do
59:05
outside of work? OK, watch sports, definitely
59:10
watch sports. I'd love to go to live games,
59:13
whether it is a university game, even high school games.
59:16
But I, I just love sports or, you know, I love to ride
59:20
bicycles. That's that's a lot of fun with
59:23
my husband and we have great trails where we live.
59:25
Oh, nice. OK, Sandra, I've just got one
59:28
more question for you today. But before I ask it, I want to
59:31
do 3 quick things. First of all, anybody who wants
59:33
to get in touch with Sandra's company, Creative dining.com,
59:37
creativedining.com, we'll have that in the show notes.
59:40
But it's easy to remember, easy to spell Creative dining.com.
59:45
Also as a reminder, if you want to get more hospitality
59:47
employees, access to therapists, doctors and prescription meds
59:51
that, as paradoxical as it seems, actually increases your
59:55
company's net profits, reach out to us at adbackbenefits.com.
1:00:00
Finally, if you are enjoying the show today, a quick comment or
1:00:03
review on your favorite podcast app goes a long way towards
1:00:07
helping others discover our show.
1:00:09
So thank you for taking a quick moment to do that right now.
1:00:13
All right, Sandra, last question for you.
1:00:15
A year from now, what is 1 very specific thing that you hope to
1:00:18
be celebrating? With my team, several of them
1:00:24
being in new more expansive roles that they have kind of are
1:00:30
starting to manifest celebrating their successes.
1:00:35
Your answer there says a lot about you.
1:00:37
It wasn't anything that you wanted for you, it's what you
1:00:41
wanted for your team. It's the team.
1:00:45
Yeah, I love that. Well, Doctor Sandra Lee from
1:00:48
Creative Dining Services, I want to be the first to thank you for
1:00:51
sharing both your time and your story with us today.
1:00:53
I really appreciate you. Thank you, Anthony.
1:00:56
It was my pleasure. Have a great day.
1:00:59
Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
1:01:02
podcast. Thanks for learning with us
1:01:03
today.