Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Kenny Wallace & Rick Mast Talk 30th Anniversary of The Inaugural Brickyard 400!

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Kenny Wallace & Rick Mast Talk 30th Anniversary of The Inaugural Brickyard 400! · Kenny Wallace Media

0:00
Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Kenny Wallace Show.
0:04
Or is it any conversation with my dear friend Rick Mast brought
0:10
to you by Jags. Where's Jags at?
0:12
Right there. The leader in high performance
0:15
aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to jags.com and
0:20
they are telling me that they have everything for Jeeps and
0:23
trucks now. Well, Rick, you are the man of
0:27
our You want to take a guess why you are?
0:31
It doesn't have anything to do with politics, I bet, right?
0:34
No, not this time. I bet it has some, you know, I
0:37
will tell you real quick side Side Story to the ending.
0:40
I bet back in 15, I bet Governor Pence right at a little function
0:45
with a function. Actually he had Trump and we we
0:48
met in in Roanoke, VA. Anyhow, Pence walks in the room,
0:52
introduces himself, and I say, hey, Sir.
0:54
He says, oh, the inaugural Brickyard Poll winner, right?
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And I'm like, oh, so you've been, you've been, you've been
1:01
briefed on who you're coming here to speak to, right?
1:03
He says, Rick, he said, you know, I'm the governor of the
1:07
state called Indiana, and there's a race there called the
1:10
Brickyard. It's a pretty big deal to us in
1:12
Indiana. I'm like, OK, OK, you got me.
1:15
You got me. Yeah.
1:16
So I thought that was cool, man. What was that?
1:18
You, 20 years or whatever later, the governor remembers by name
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or who I was. God, I did my studying as O.
1:25
Larry Mac. As as O Larry Mac Raddle say, I
1:29
got my notes. Oh gosh, Larry Macra, where are
1:32
you at? You're, you're looking at the
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great Rick Mast, my dear friend and Rick in front of the world.
1:38
I want to congratulate you on you.
1:41
You had a great take on John Force's big wreck and injury and
1:47
it was a good 5-6 minute take. And that take, if you go over to
1:52
the Kenny Wallace show right now with Rick Mast, Rick, you're
1:58
almost at 500,000 views. Congratulations, because I
2:03
believe that that take was very heartfelt.
2:07
You called out people that were saying that he he shouldn't be
2:11
racing at, at 75 years old. And boy, it struck the chord.
2:16
So congratulations on a on a great take on John Force.
2:20
Yeah, it was a good deal, Kenny. I mean, it wasn't at the time.
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I didn't when I put it out there had he didn't have anything to
2:25
do with number of hits or number of views.
2:27
That was the last thing I thought, well, I hope, I hope
2:29
the bastards that rode that, that maybe do this or or listen
2:33
to this, right. That's the ones I was, that's
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who I was directing it to. Nobody else, but, you know, it's
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been 75 years old and and, you know, questioning that.
2:42
Yeah, I get it, Kenny, I I have no problem.
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Hey, I'm sure people question you at 60 or 80 or however old
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you are now. But but, but you know what?
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I didn't question that. But the deal was the, the, the,
2:54
the people that said he got what he deserved.
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All right, man, you crossed the line.
2:58
Now, you know, we see all this stuff in politics and in the
3:01
media and all, and you, you'd laugh at it, you let it go.
3:04
But when it happens to us, and I'm talking about us being our
3:06
racing brother, I don't care if he's NHRA or IndyCar or NASCAR
3:11
or dirt car or late bottle over here at the Saturday night
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racetrack, When you when you do that, then Rick Mass is going to
3:17
jump in and intervene on stuff like that because it's just
3:19
wrong. It's just wrong.
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Yeah, well, Larry Mcgran, Larry McReynolds is a dear friend of
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yours and mine, and. And we poke fun at him because
3:27
he's a little country and he said to me one time he says, you
3:32
know, Kenny now that we are all out of racing in NASCAR, he
3:36
says, you know, when we raced, we finished first, second,
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third, 4th and so forth. So you could say I was either
3:43
one that day or I was 10th best. Well, when we do the Kenny
3:46
Wallace show, it's like was, was that a good show?
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And and you had a good show because if you go over right
3:55
there right now, you're close to 1/2 a million views.
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And because that's how we gauge our shows.
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Was it a good show or not? And buddy, you got the views.
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So that's what I meant. Good job.
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You, you did a really good job. And you said what a lot of
4:13
people are thinking. All right now as, as they say in
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show business, we're doing a little business right now.
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So congratulations to Rick on his take on John Force.
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And Rick, there it is right here that there it is.
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And I want to, I want to thank you because you are.
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I dropped my pin. Hold on.
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Hold on, Hold on everybody. But you know, the Rick Mash show
4:42
is is a big hit and it was all Charlie's idea again, Charlie's
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got great ideas, but part that that that is yours too.
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Rick. Thank you.
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We're we are over 100,000 subscribers.
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This is the first show what they call it the silver play button.
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And I want to thank you Rick in front of everybody.
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So there it is. And and also first and foremost,
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and we did a show. Thank you fans there.
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It is very rare. And Rick, thank you so much for
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being for doing the Rick mass show on Kenny Wallace platform.
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You're awesome. Well, Kenny, it's like I've told
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you, I've, I've, I'm honored to do it, honestly, you know what I
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mean? I mean, your deal, you're, we
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talk about branding, you know, like, like my son, you know,
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Ricky works for the Braves, right?
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And one of the things that, and he's doing real well or he
5:33
swings a big old stick. And one of the things that that
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helped him in his position, he understands branding.
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He, he, he watched right as a little boy growing up, how you
5:44
as a driver, right? How you grow and you protect the
5:47
brand, you know, and the brand means the sponsor you've got.
5:51
It means NASCAR and it means Kenny Wallace or written masks,
5:56
right? The best in our sport, I think I
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ever saw that protecting the brand to this to this day is
6:01
Dale Jarrett. He protects his brand like
6:03
nobody else, right? Really.
6:05
I didn't know that. He protects himself.
6:07
You just you just just look back.
6:09
The one that promoted the brand the best, of course was was
6:11
senior Dale Earnhardt senior. But you know, with this show of
6:15
yours, a Kenny Wallace show, and to get that plaque you got
6:18
behind you, right? I mean, I came in on the very
6:21
back end of this thing. You know, I might have added
6:23
three people to that YouTube. I don't, I don't know what.
6:27
It was it was very small, but but you know, I mean, to some
6:31
people it's like, how'd that happen?
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And I'm like, well, you got to understand Kenny Wallace and
6:36
watch Kenny Wallace on these videos for years.
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And it's, I don't know, it's just, it's just cool for me to
6:42
be a part of this deal. I mean, there's so many podcasts
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out there, right? And everybody has their
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different takes and different ways of doing it.
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But you know, the Kenny Wallace show, man, it kind of gets to
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the, it kind of gets to the soul, all right?
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It gets to the soul of the subject that that we're talking
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about. The way I look at me, so many of
6:59
these things, you know, you, you talk about it and you fuss about
7:02
the talking points and everybody hears the same thing on
7:04
different shows. But this one, you know, I've
7:06
always thought it was a little bit different because, you know,
7:09
when I watched it before it came to part of it, Kitty was.
7:11
And I'd always watch it or I'm like, well, yeah, that's that
7:14
crazy ass Kitty, you know, that's the way he is, you know.
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And by the way, the woman with your mom the other day, oh so
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precious. Oh so precious man.
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She's the best. Maybe best by mom and my dad
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both, but good Lord yeah, such a cool deal.
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Thank you. I love my Mama and Pete.
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Now people know why I'm the way I am.
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I'm almost, I'm a spitting image.
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I'm a carbon copy of my mom. One more, one more as they say.
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Piece of business. Watch me move my head a little
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bit. OK, let me get it.
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This is the second new piece. We got the button right there.
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100,000 from YouTube. Hold on, this is big for me.
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This is the great Dick Trickle and.
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This is. This is awesome.
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And this was given to me, Conrad Peterson.
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Just a real nice note from Conrad.
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Let me see, make sure his phone, his phone number is on here.
8:18
So let's fold it a little bit. But a really nice letter from
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Conrad. Just put it up there a little
8:25
bit saying how much he knows Dick means to me and he watches
8:29
the show. So this this car they called
8:32
Goldie and but that that's Goldie.
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And that was towards the end of Dick's career somewhat.
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And but anyway, all right, Rick, I think we're done with show and
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tell. I got to tell you trickle story,
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man. I know you loved him.
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We loved him. I loved him.
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You know, I didn't know him like you.
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But when he came to cut me and him became buddies and we were
8:56
at Charlotte for the the speed weeks of Charlotte one time and
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and Dick comes to the middle of the week, said Ricky got come
9:01
over to the house. I got to show you something I
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said, well, Dick, I'm kind of big.
9:04
Don't don't know. Hell though, you got to come to
9:06
my house. I'm going to show you something
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while this is this 2 days, right?
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I mean, he was so excited. He wouldn't tell me what it was
9:13
so excited. And I'm thinking, all right,
9:16
I'll come over there Friday or whatever it was and come to your
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house. And I thought, man, he's he's
9:20
got some kind of special race car or somebody's giving him
9:23
something or, you know, some kind of deal.
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I go in there and we talked a little bit.
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I said, what do you want me here for a trick?
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That's what I called him trick. He said.
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I said, what do you want? What are you going to show me?
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He finally takes me over to his shed or his little garage.
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He opens it up and there's a brand new John Deere leaf vacuum
9:38
that you pull behind the bore. And I'm looking around at
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everything and I'm like, OK, what what we're looking at.
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I said what he said, look here. I said what?
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He said my leaf blower. I said leaf blower.
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He said yeah. He went on for 30 minutes about
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how proud he was of this leaf blower.
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He just was a leaf sucker. I'm sorry, leaf sucker, that you
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that he hooked his lawn mower right to suck up leaves and I'm
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like trick no wonder you're you're such a legend as race car
10:04
driver because you're just as dumb as the rest of us.
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But but that was about trickle story that I love and always
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think about. He he was always very practical.
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It was the the simplest of things.
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When you look, when you would look at Dick Trickles race cars
10:19
that he built by himself, it was like, Yep, there's a front sway
10:23
bar. Oh my gosh, hold on.
10:25
Dick Trickle had a rear sway bar back with that old Ford, you
10:30
know, years ago and then remember NASCAR, all of a sudden
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everybody had a rear sway bar. I'm like Dick.
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Dick Trickle had won a 1967 game.
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I'll. Be darned I didn't know that.
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Yeah. All right.
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Well, listen, we we need to start the show first and
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foremost. The Brickyard 400 coming up is
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the 30th anniversary, so 30th anniversary of the Brickyard
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400. And you're looking at the man
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that set QuickTime. He was on the pole.
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It's it's legendary because listen to this.
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Here's why it was such a big deal. 86 cars entered the race.
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It's it's not like, you know, it's not like 60 cars entered
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the race for 43 spots. So here's the parameters, Rick.
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There were 86 race cars that day.
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It's hard for me to believe, attempted to a 43 car starting
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field, 43 cars were in the race. So when you look at it and you
11:37
kind of do the math, basically half the cars went home and
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there you were, the best of the best, as Mark Martin would say,
11:47
when that day was over. The man you're looking at right
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now, Rick Mass was the best that day.
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Let's just start up like that. Rick, I got so much to talk to
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you about because there's a lot of hidden gems, but tell me
12:03
about let let's let's eat you set QuickTime.
12:06
You get out of the car, let let's go right there.
12:11
Kitty, somebody asked me, a reporter this week.
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I did a story or a couple stories, like we always do each.
12:17
And that's how we know how big Indy is. 30 years later, I still
12:20
do a story or two or three or four right before Indy,
12:23
everything. And I still get stuff in the
12:26
bail, honestly, the inaugural Brickyard pole stuff, I still
12:30
get in the middle of the side and, and, and it always gets
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heavy just a couple weeks, a couple weeks after ending like
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I've already started last week, get the deluge of Indy Brickyard
12:38
pole stuff to sign right. And so 30 years later that it's
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still big. When I got out of the car, we
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could talk about everything leading up to practice the whole
12:47
deal. But when I got out of the car,
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we set the fast time. We were the 12th car, I think,
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to go out and we we do. Earnhardt was in, he was in the
12:54
top 4-5 or six of us in practice, or there are a handful
12:58
of us that were consistently good in the different practices,
13:01
right? Earnhardt was one of those
13:02
dudes. Well, he went out directly ahead
13:05
of me and set, set pace at the fast time.
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And then when I went, I beat him.
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So, right. So somebody asked me, well,
13:13
Rick, were you pretty confident that you had the pole?
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I said, well, I came in, I got out of the car.
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We were real tickled with the lap.
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I told Kevin, my crew chief. You remember Kevin Hamlin?
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Yeah. I said Kevin, I said honestly, I
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I can't tell you the only thing that I could do to make a faster
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lap, and I looked at Ron Vaccaro.
13:31
He's the engine builder. Is this goofball here?
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If he could give me a more horsepower, if he'd give me a
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horsepower, the only way I know I could have gone faster.
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I left nothing at any turn. And you know how odd that is,
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Kenny, when you qualify you, you your balls to the walls on that
13:46
edge and you give it everything you got.
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But when it laps over, you're like, OK, I could have got in
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three just a little bit quicker. I didn't work the apex up there
13:54
in one and two just right. You know, whatever you you
13:56
always have those things that you know somewhere messed up or
13:59
the car let you down right. You always know that as a
14:02
driver, honest to God. So when I came off the track,
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I'm like, well, that's it. I mean, the car was dead ass
14:07
neutral. I didn't mess up getting in, I
14:09
didn't mess up getting on the gas.
14:11
It never wiggled. I said, you know, somebody beats
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it. They got to beat me on
14:14
horsepower because they're not going, they're not going through
14:15
these corners faster than I just did.
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It's not possible, right? So anyhow, I get out of the car
14:21
and I'm like, we've gone out 12. So you still got 80 cars to go
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or 70 cars to go. And I remember the biggest part
14:30
of the time, there's a bitch. If you remember the garage area
14:32
where we parked our cars, there's benches in there.
14:34
I spent the most of the time, probably four or five weeks,
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laying down on that bitch that evening, waiting on the rest of
14:45
the cars to be done. We remember the weirdest stuff,
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don't we? We do, yeah.
14:51
Because in the end, we're all pretty.
14:53
We're all pretty much the same. We think differently, but.
14:57
But it was a long, it was a long period, believe me, man, to walk
15:00
through all those cars. OK, so we are talking about the
15:03
very first Brickyard. 430 years ago, 199486 cars attempted.
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All right, now let's start talking about the event itself.
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Rick, some surprise starters, a little tidbit of information.
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AJ Voight was the last car to make the race that that's pretty
15:26
cool. Here's another one.
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Danny Sullivan made the race. Danny was a Indianapolis 500
15:35
winner. Jeff Brabham.
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I don't know much about Jeff Brabham, but Jeff, from what I
15:43
remember, was kind of a road racer and those three drivers
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started the Brickyard 430 years ago.
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Tell me anything in your mind that you remember about AJ,
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Danny Sullivan or Jeff Brabham? Yeah, that those three names
16:04
that that's part of a little group of names that had
16:07
everybody so nervous. Kenny, we had 80 sub cars and
16:11
everybody knew that was that many was entered.
16:13
We had what, 2 provisionals and a champion in these days, I
16:16
think maybe 3 provisionals. You had Junior Johnson, you had
16:20
Rick Hendrick, you had Richard Childers, Bud Moore, The Wood
16:24
Brothers of the World. You had these guys as nervous as
16:29
anybody at that racetrack because they understood, as we
16:33
all did, that there's a good chance that we could go home
16:37
from this race. The reason being just simply
16:40
numbers. You know, 80 cars, 87 cars.
16:43
That's just numbers. Somebody's going to fluke in
16:45
there and knock you out. On top of that, you have these
16:48
IndyCar guys, right, that that have so much experience at Indy
16:53
that you don't know what they're going to pull out.
16:55
I mean, the track, none of us knew what to expect.
16:57
We knew the track was very, very finicky, but finicky track I
17:00
believe I've ever driven on as far as changes the weather and
17:03
how it affects it. And and you just go up there
17:05
with this with somebody unknowns those three guys that made it
17:10
that you pointed out winning race car drivers OK, wins that
17:15
they I think AJ Foyt won it ND maybe I. 4 * 4 time Indianapolis
17:21
500 or AJ Foyt. Exactly.
17:24
So the pressure, the pressure that these team owners were
17:28
under, I've never seen it, but I never saw it before and I never
17:31
saw it after. You would see guys like me and
17:33
you. We're looking at the time and
17:35
board. When we qualify, we're going to
17:36
make top 20. Do we have a chance of going
17:39
home? Do we miss?
17:39
You know how I've got rich, and that is for us.
17:42
Yeah. And let me let's call an audible
17:43
right there. Let me remind everybody in our
17:46
day we had the top 20 were locked in the first day and then
17:52
and then you add to decide the next day they came back and they
17:56
qualified 21, you know through whatever it was and then you
18:00
have provisional. So if you were not in the top 20
18:03
on the first day, you were nervous.
18:06
Big time because typically most race tracks slows down the
18:09
second day. So if you run a if you run a 50
18:13
flat and that puts you 22nd right?
18:17
Well then you've got 40 more cars are going to qualify the
18:20
second day. You can stand on your 50 flat
18:23
time, OK and let everybody else qualify.
18:27
And I've seen this happen. You have to a fluke happened.
18:30
The truck track changes the weather.
18:31
Better that 50 flat on the second round when 40 other cars
18:35
qualify. You could go home, people.
18:37
Could easily 40. Nine 70s, so always a gut
18:41
wrenching thing always. And then you add that to the the
18:44
deals, this being Indy man, you got 67 more frigging cars to
18:50
qualify. Insane.
18:52
What I do, what I do I re qualify or not.
18:54
It just just absolutely incredible what went on.
18:57
OK, let's do a little. Let's make Charlie work today.
19:02
I sent Charlie the starting lineup last night.
19:05
So right now, Charlie, if you don't mind, can you for
19:09
everybody watching insert the starting lineup, there it is,
19:13
the 1994 Brickyard 400 qualifying starting grid.
19:18
And Rick, I got it right here. And let's just look at a little
19:24
bit. Rick Mass QuickTime.
19:27
OK, let's talk about your time for a minute, 172.414 Now here's
19:35
what's pretty wild about this. You kicked everyone's butt
19:39
because Earnhardt was second at 171.726.
19:45
Now that that's not a big margin, but yet you were the
19:48
only driver at 172 mph. Then you had Earnhardt 171 and
19:56
and, and there he is Jeff Gordon, the eventual winner of
19:58
the race. I do want to emphasize that Jeff
20:01
Gordon was the winner with that great battle.
20:05
I believe it went down with Ernie Irvin.
20:07
Ernie had a flat tire. They were side by side for the
20:11
win. We do want to acknowledge that.
20:14
But take me back was was the speed ever talked about you, you
20:21
and I, we grew up in we run A50 flat, but at at.
20:25
Indy, they always talked about the speed, 172 mph was that ever
20:31
talked about the speed? Not too much kidding, but we you
20:34
know what, what made it, what made it start turning into
20:37
speed. That's the first racetrack if
20:39
you and you remember, we go up there to test and get there for
20:41
all the practices. They got all these time
20:44
segments, they got all, they got all the markers in the
20:47
racetrack. And when you go back a lap, you
20:50
get out of your car, you go over to the whatever the room,
20:53
there's a room there in the garage and you go in there and
20:56
they're, they're posted is everybody that's practicing and
20:59
everybody's speeds and everybody's individual lap
21:03
speeds broken down to or enter in turn 1 to the center of turn
21:07
1:00. You got to speed there, the
21:09
center of that turn to exit in that turn all around the
21:12
racetrack. You can look at all these speeds
21:14
and compare your speeds on the racetrack to anybody that was
21:17
out there, right? And and they would do it in MPH,
21:22
you know, so that's kind of what got us into the mile per hour
21:26
thing. And it was A to me, it was a
21:28
coolest frigging thing. I'd run over every time, every
21:30
time I got out of the race car, dude, I'd run over to see, you
21:34
know, where can I be faster? Or were they, were they whipping
21:36
I asset? What can I do right?
21:38
But the mph thing, what came from that little room that you'd
21:42
walk in and look to see how you're comparing yourself to
21:45
everybody else? All right here we already 20
21:48
minutes in that's insane. So we're going to we're going to
21:53
do something a little different. We're going to move forward and
21:56
we're going to talk about where we are today and how we got to
22:01
where we are. So let me let me lead this
22:04
charge here Rick and I want you to respond.
22:08
In 1994, we had 350,000 people. Now, I mean, I'm, I'm rubbing my
22:14
forehead. I can't even believe I'm saying
22:16
that. 350,000 people. How do you even park that amount
22:23
of cars around the racetrack? Right.
22:26
So, yeah. And we can comment on that.
22:30
So. Well, now, now I'm calling
22:33
another audible. What was it like for you?
22:36
Here's here's the question. What was it like for you to come
22:40
off and turn 4? Watch the pace car pull in with
22:45
a sea of people. What was it like to go down go
22:49
down in the turn one? I know you told the story on the
22:52
uncanny conversation, but just run me through that one last
22:55
time before we move forward. It just, it's like the that that
23:00
particular drop in the green was like the whole week for me.
23:04
Very, very, very simple. Very simple, Kenny.
23:08
Magical. That's the best way to know how
23:10
to put it. Just magical.
23:12
Don't miss a. Shift don't miss a shift.
23:14
I've never seen so many frigging people in my life.
23:16
Bill France looked at me and Earnhardt in the driver's beat
23:18
and says this is a big deal, you know, blah blah blah.
23:21
Everything's going on. He looked at me and they'll
23:23
they'll Earnhardt, he said. And when y'all go take that
23:26
green you drop in turn one do not screw up my event looking
23:31
looking straight at me and Earnhardt right?
23:33
And I'm like, OK, I want you. The owner of NASCAR.
23:36
The owner of NASCAR, that's how. And he never talked to driver's
23:39
meeting. Hell, you never seen him in the
23:41
driver's meeting talking to us. But there he was telling all of
23:44
us, do not screw up this first lap and make us look like a
23:47
bunch of monkeys, OK? We understood.
23:50
We understood. You understood the importance of
23:52
it take a degree. My whole honestly Kitty my whole
23:55
thing leading up to that because Earnhardt already put in my
23:58
mind. He said I'm going to leave that
23:59
first lap and I'm like well come on big boys.
24:03
I knew what that meant. I knew what he's going to try to
24:04
do So honestly getting geared up and coming down in front
24:07
straight away that that as soon as that magic it was right
24:10
before they dropped the green flag, the magical part ended
24:14
that I turned back to Rick mass the race car driver.
24:16
OK, and what have I got to do to get to turn one doing where I
24:20
need to be with Earnhardt on the outside of it and what's he
24:23
going to to do and how am I going to react?
24:24
Right. And 100% of everything I thought
24:27
about happened, 100% it just worked out perfect, you know, or
24:30
for me, because Dale was going to lead that first half.
24:33
You remember how it was. Everybody want to be first up
24:35
there to do anything. You want to be first to get on
24:37
the racetrack. You want to be first to go to
24:38
the bathroom. You want to be first about the
24:40
hot dog. Whatever was to be first at
24:43
everybody. Everybody, everybody had a story
24:45
there for a year leading up to that event.
24:46
So again, when they dropped the green flagger right before, you
24:50
know, all the magic went away. It was just another race at that
24:53
point. And it really was, well, it was
24:56
it, but it was my old deal was lead the first lap.
24:59
That was my old deal lead first lap.
25:00
I led the first lap and I'm like, OK, I got that over with.
25:03
Now we can look at lap 160. That was about thought process.
25:07
Yeah, really, really good stuff. And this is documented on Kenny
25:11
Conversation and we're talking about the 1990 four 30th
25:16
anniversary of the Brickyard for 100 Rick Mass that's QuickTime
25:21
outruns Dale Earnhardt senior through turns one third turns 2
25:25
and set sail. OK, Rick, we're going to set
25:29
sail. Let's boogie on down the road
25:30
here. So the Brickyard 400 for so many
25:34
years is a great event. And then all of a sudden, the
25:39
Brickyard 400 just shockingly falls from grace.
25:45
Maybe eight years ago, the Brickyard 400 started and it was
25:50
the Brickyard 400 and there was not 40,000 people in the
25:55
grandstands. It was completely empty.
25:59
There was only some people on the front straightaway.
26:05
It was really this race quickly fell from grace.
26:10
You got all the good out of it. What what do you think happened
26:15
to NASCAR during those times? And, and we will address now
26:22
we're going back. But let's let's just address
26:24
that for a moment because I did have my notes.
26:27
We're going to break it. We're going to break it down.
26:29
The return of the Brickyard. What do you think happened in
26:32
NASCAR, where there was literally almost nobody at the
26:35
racetrack for the Brickyard 400 about eight years ago?
26:40
Kenny, I, I've got a little different take and this goes to
26:43
a broader subject of NASCAR in general.
26:45
I have a little broader take. We were at, and maybe I'm
26:48
getting into your questions you're going to ask, but we were
26:50
at California in 2000 or 2001. And I'm sitting there in the
26:54
drivers meeting and I'm on the inroad, right.
26:57
And it's tight and, and, and those days, every politician,
27:00
every entertainer around, they, they went to these drivers beat.
27:03
Do you remember that? Oh, yeah, I'm sitting on the
27:04
inroad. So there's a woman standing
27:07
beside me, rubbing against my shoulder.
27:08
I look up at Sheryl Crow. All right, the singer, right,
27:11
right, right beside her, against her and, and and I guess my
27:15
thigh was the girl that spends letters on Wheel of Fortune.
27:18
Is that a white? All right, listen to this.
27:21
Right beside her at my foot was the governor of California,
27:26
Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? And I looked down through there
27:29
and I'm like every politician in California is there.
27:32
Every entertainer you can think of is in this room.
27:34
And I, when I got home the next day, I told Sharon, I said,
27:37
Sharon, we're in a fad right now.
27:39
She said what? I said we're in a fad.
27:41
She said, what do you mean? I said, there's no way that this
27:44
sport is as popular as it's been shown, right?
27:47
Does she? What do you mean?
27:48
I said right now, because of everything that happened in the
27:52
Brickyard was part of it the explosion growth that went on
27:55
through the 90s. It was it led to a deal to where
27:59
at the end of 2000 and early 2000s and the TV package right
28:03
at all perfect storm, perfect storm.
28:05
It exploded. NASCAR was a place to be.
28:08
NASCAR was a place to be seen at.
28:10
NASCAR was a thing to do, right? And I remember telling my wife
28:13
Sharon, this thing is a fad, right?
28:15
It's just a fad, right? We have our hardcores, we go to
28:18
gain some fans. I said, But then the fad wears
28:21
off, right? We're going to see, we're going
28:25
to find out really how popular a sport is.
28:28
Now, the fad did wear off, but what happened?
28:30
You know, NASCAR, they, they, they on purposely with not
28:36
intended to turn their back on the core fans, or at least
28:40
that's what the core fans felt and still feels today somewhat
28:44
because they took away the Darlington deal, they took away
28:46
Wilkesboro, they took away Rocket Dam, right?
28:48
They they, they want to move. And we all understand why this
28:51
all happened. We know what it's all about,
28:52
right? And they did not want to lose
28:56
that core fan, but they they lost some of them, right?
28:59
So I think, I think my, I think the deal with Indy is just a
29:03
micro causism. Is that right?
29:05
Let's see Micro no. That's right.
29:07
Yeah. We we that one, that one race
29:11
fell from grace and that one race, some microcosm.
29:14
It means we're focused in on that one race.
29:17
And actually, what you're saying is what happened to the
29:19
Brickyard is what happened to the complete sport of NASCAR.
29:23
Exactly. I don't, I don't think anything
29:24
to do with the Brickyard, nothing at all.
29:26
It's just what happened to our sport because you got to
29:29
understand Kitty in, in my view, you, you had RJ Reynolds coming
29:32
in, you had the 79 Daytona 500 with the fight, right?
29:37
And you had the Brickyard. You.
29:39
I think these are the three, in my view, the three explosion
29:44
points of our sport and what happened with Indy.
29:46
Here's what happened with Indy. The very first number 400, we
29:49
had all these things that have built up.
29:51
We had for, for whatever reasons, man, we had the, the,
29:57
the popularity of our sport was just sitting there brewing.
30:00
It was like, it was like a powder keg almost and.
30:02
It and it was a good the 94 race foot, you know, Ernie Irwin goes
30:06
up there and challenges. Yeah.
30:09
And fans are on their feet and then Ernie has a flat tire, so
30:12
it was a good race. It was a good race.
30:14
It was a very good race. It certainly was.
30:16
And I think it's just perfect timing, man.
30:20
Our sport was ready for a Brickyard 400.
30:23
And when the Brickyard 400 happened, it's like you lit a
30:26
fuse to this powder keg that we've been setting on as NASCAR
30:30
for, you know, five or 6-7 years leading up to this.
30:33
And when you lit that counter plague or powder keg, the sport
30:37
just exploded. I, I, I think in my mind, that
30:41
was Indy's place in our sport. It, it ignited.
30:45
It indicted what we've been sitting under Kurt or under the
30:47
table little bit. It just blew it open.
30:50
And and we live that moment from there.
30:53
The rest, all through the 90s and through the 2000s, all
30:56
right, till everything started going the other way.
30:58
That's what we lived. And to me, that was the
31:02
importance of the Brickyard. Yeah.
31:04
So let's keep moving forward. So they run the Brickyard for
31:08
100 year after year. And it's it's it's doing pretty
31:11
good. And then Goodyear comes in,
31:13
makes a mistake. They kiss the snake.
31:18
We had the debacle where they could only run 10 laps at a
31:21
time. People were blowing tires out
31:24
horribly, crashing into the wall.
31:27
And and then then the new fad was to not like NASCAR.
31:32
So NASCAR said OK, and this one blew my mind.
31:36
They said we are not going to race on the legendary
31:41
Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Now, my, my, my investigation
31:45
here leads me to believe that I'm accurate.
31:48
I believe respond right here. Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Mile is
31:53
the oldest in America. That's key in America.
31:59
And the Brickyard is second. Now there's a track, a British
32:02
track, I believe that's oldest, but let's just stay in America.
32:08
So, so the Brickyard 400, Indianapolis Motor Speedway is
32:12
the second oldest track in America.
32:14
It's got this incredible mystique.
32:17
Michael Andretti told me when I was talking to him, even though
32:20
he lives there, he says you pull in the place and you just, it
32:24
feels magical. So we, Rick, we get away.
32:28
We we, we decide not to run on the racetrack and we, we run the
32:33
Brickyard, quote UN quote 400 on this makeshift Rd. quarter.
32:38
How in the hell? I mean, when I look back on, I'm
32:44
like, what? Now?
32:45
Mind you, this race coming up is the first race where we get back
32:51
to the real Brickyard 400. We're back on not the Oval, but
32:56
you know, the shoebox shape racetrack.
32:59
This is the oddest shape racetrack.
33:01
It's not an old. So take me through that time.
33:04
Give me your thoughts. How did we get on a makeshift
33:08
Rd. course inside? How do we leave the Indianapolis
33:12
racetrack? Well, two things on this, Kenny,
33:16
and one is very one is really, really sad.
33:18
All right, so the one reason you do it is all right, we've lost
33:22
interest. We're not getting fans to the
33:23
race. All right, let's try something
33:25
different. Let's make it a road course.
33:27
We'll do that and see if we generate fan interest.
33:29
Right. Well, of course it didn't.
33:31
It didn't work. But to me in, in, in the more
33:34
telling point of this whole thing is, all right, we're going
33:38
to make it a road course because you're telling me that the Oval
33:43
course and what we've done forever is not relevant.
33:47
It doesn't. Like we need to tear the
33:48
racetrack down. You know what we've done and
33:52
always done? It's it's not, it doesn't mean
33:54
anything. It's not important.
33:56
You know, we're going to do the road course, try to make it more
33:58
exciting or try to get more fans.
34:00
Well, yeah, well and fine, but go down at IRP and do it over
34:02
there, right? Don't do it at the Hallowed
34:05
Grounds. I mean, Kenny, the first time I
34:08
went through those gates said I bet you you felt the same thing.
34:10
I'm like you almost got you almost got chill bumps.
34:14
I did the first time I went in there, man, because all the hype
34:17
leading up to it and what we were told and you know, remember
34:20
IndyCar guys didn't want to serve some of them.
34:22
I remember a lot of those quotes, although we loved them,
34:24
they loved us. And I, I, I totally understood
34:27
it. And we, but you know, we went up
34:29
there as a group. We were told many times what to
34:32
do and not to do. The procedures were different
34:34
and you understood going in there is a different deal.
34:37
But dude, dude, dude, when you come through that tunnel and you
34:41
go into that area and you see that racetrack, you're like,
34:45
damn, right. Then you go under the gasoline
34:48
alley thing, right? Damn.
34:51
Then when you first get out on that racetrack and you make your
34:53
first few laps, you're like, damn.
34:57
I mean, honestly, as a as a race car driver, you're just like,
35:00
damn, wow. Right.
35:02
Yeah. So you're telling me that a few
35:06
years later that that's not relevant, right?
35:09
Going through that gasoline alley thing, going out on going
35:12
into turn 1, going down that front straightaway at 180 miles
35:16
an hour, looking at a wall 90° in front of you and your foot
35:20
says keep it wide open. Your brain says no way in hell
35:22
this is going to work. You know I'm going to die,
35:24
right? All that stuff, all the history,
35:28
everything that goes on there, the hallowed grounds, you're
35:31
going to tell me that it's not important enough to keep the
35:35
event going here? We got to put it on the road
35:37
course. That was the part, Kenny, that
35:39
always bothered me about, about doing that and.
35:44
Imagine us, Rick. Let's put it this way.
35:47
We're good buddies. I can interrupt you.
35:50
Imagine the date. This is your show.
35:52
It does what it that does say Kenny Wallace show.
35:56
We partner, as Schrader would say, we're partners, Rick.
35:59
Oh Lord, oh Lord, oh gosh. But imagine this, let me put it
36:04
in this perspective. We're at the Daytona 500 and
36:07
they go, you know what, let's quit running the Daytona.
36:10
Let's let's run it on the road course.
36:13
So I, I kind of, although it's a different, I kind of feel like
36:16
it's that scenario and, and it's like, I don't want to beat a
36:21
dead horse, but how in the world did we let that happen?
36:26
And you did a good you did a good job explaining it.
36:28
Rick, I don't know. You know, we had golly can we
36:31
could go into depth on this. We could do a whole we could do
36:34
a Ken Burns series and so tapes, right.
36:37
But about NASCAR. But really Bill France junior in
36:44
his vision and what he did. You know, you you you look at
36:48
some of the stuff that that went on some of his visions and and
36:53
the things that happened and he was so so prideful of running
36:57
Indy. OK, You can just see it in
37:01
Billy's, in Billy's demeanor leading up to that.
37:03
Anytime I talk to him about it the whole time we were up there.
37:07
And then, you know, he he we lose Billy, we lose, we lose
37:13
some of Billy's, how could I say this, some of his intellectual
37:19
properties about how NASCAR is run, OK, and how you do things
37:24
and what happens. We start getting we start
37:27
getting a lot of young marketing dudes.
37:29
We're getting young marketing dudes in NASCAR right, Kidding.
37:34
When I came in in 88 or 89 or 90, whatever it was.
37:36
I mean they were like, what was I I forget the number say eight
37:39
people in marketing or six people.
37:42
Hell, when I when I left in 2002 is 128 people in marketing dude,
37:47
right. And they're all 25 years out of
37:49
one O 1 marketing school. And you know, I'll never forget
37:54
Billy France put his arm around me one time at Daytona, said
37:56
band. As long as I keep you SOB side
37:58
by side. And he pointed at the racetrack
38:00
of the grandstands. He said all the rest of the
38:02
stuff take care of takes care of itself.
38:04
Very simple philosophy. I want to say this and I don't
38:09
want to put too much pressure on Charlie, but you know, we
38:12
entered, we had a conversation with Michael Andretti and boy,
38:17
he, you're right, about 15 minutes ago, those IndyCar guys
38:22
did not like these stock cars coming in there for all types of
38:26
reason. Come to find out, that was
38:28
during the pivotal time when like IndyCar and CART, they they
38:32
split up. There was a lot of controversy
38:35
during that time that got us to there and they did not want us
38:40
there. What did you think when when
38:42
NASCAR brought their Roman Chariots to race at the
38:46
Indianapolis Motor Speedway? Yeah, a little disappointed
38:52
because I think that was the beginning of of the problems for
38:56
IndyCar, because I think at that point, this is my own opinion.
39:00
I don't have facts to prove it. But I think France at the time,
39:07
you know, was, was with Tony George.
39:09
And I think, you know, he he tried to convince him that he
39:12
should start his own series, you know, because, you know, the
39:16
cart was getting too big and you know, that it was going to over
39:19
shadow the Speedway and things like that.
39:21
And I think I think that's where the buzz got in Tony's ear.
39:25
And, you know, and then that, you know, obviously it it just
39:30
about killed IndyCar racing, you know, with the two series.
39:32
So that was that from my standpoint, that was not a good
39:36
time, you know, for IndyCar. Listen, I agree with you.
39:41
This is a deal where this could be up.
39:43
The history of, you know, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the
39:46
history of the big yard for Rick.
39:48
Here we are. My hair is about gone.
39:51
You got very little hair. It's 30 years later, buddy.
39:56
Let let's just we're coming to the end here. 30 years.
40:01
Tell me what has happened in your life.
40:05
In 30 years, this Marks and, and, and I want to, I want to
40:09
say this, we're going to wrap this up about this is the 30th
40:13
anniversary of the Brickyard 400.
40:16
We're finally getting back to normal.
40:18
This year's race of the Brickyard will be on the normal
40:21
track. We're trying to get back to
40:23
reality. So what has happened in the last
40:26
30 years? What's your highlights?
40:28
Ben, what's about kids grow? That's awesome, honestly, that
40:31
that's my whole deal. You know, when I was taken out
40:34
of the sport, they were trying to get me to, to do TV.
40:38
All right, this is an O2. Pam, do you remember Pam Miller
40:42
with Fox? She she I had done a little
40:45
work, some little some stuff. And when I when I announced I
40:48
was retiring and getting out of sport, they were talking to me
40:51
about doing it right. And I'm like, man, I don't feel
40:54
right yet. You know, this was in fall of
40:56
that year, fall of. Carbon monoxide poison.
40:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't feel right at the end
41:01
of O2. I said no, I'm not going to sign
41:03
anything to do anything next year, so I didn't.
41:06
So the next spring, I guess it was March or April, they had
41:09
Xfinity race in Nashville, and I forget who was, I forget who was
41:14
supposed to be working it. Whoever it was had an emergency,
41:17
couldn't make it right. So Pam called me.
41:19
I said yeah, I'll do the gig, Hopped on a plane.
41:21
I sold my plane by the end, right?
41:23
Sold my motorhome, sold my motorhome, sold all that crap.
41:26
Anyhow, I had to go like the peasants.
41:28
I had to go to the airport and actually get a ticket and fly.
41:31
We all do the same thing, brother Rusty got rid of his
41:35
helicopter, got rid of his jet, got rid.
41:37
So, I mean, he doesn't have any. Well, it's a smart thing to do.
41:41
You don't. You don't have the big money
41:43
rolling in anymore. We're all there.
41:46
So I go, I go. This is on a Thursday.
41:48
We, I work the deal Saturday night and I had fun at it.
41:52
I was pretty, I was decent at it, I think, right?
41:55
They still wanted me to do stuff.
41:56
And I get home Sunday night at midnight, right.
41:59
The next day, my son Ricky, it was his 21st, I think 21st
42:04
birthday, whatever it was. And I remember looking at Sharon
42:07
one time. I said, when the hell did he
42:08
turn 21? I mean, he was just, he was just
42:11
learning down the ride six months ago.
42:14
Yeah. And I remember my little twin
42:16
daughters, Sarah and Katie, they were seven maybe at the time or
42:21
six. And they were running around the
42:22
yard. And I remember here's no joke,
42:24
Kenny, I took my foot and I just, I took the edge of it and
42:28
I drew a line in the dirt or in the grass and I said, I'm not
42:32
crossing over that line. I'm not going to do this.
42:35
I'm going to watch I, I miss Ricky growing up.
42:38
I'm going to watch my little girls grow up.
42:40
And that's the reason that I didn't do that, because I knew
42:43
if I step back into that arena, you know, it's, it's like a,
42:47
it's like cocaine addiction, I suppose.
42:49
I mean, you're there. I mean, you're, you're in the
42:51
middle of it, right? And, and it would be as much
42:54
time gone as I'd spent going racing, I think, right in those
42:57
days, the way it worked. And then not having your travel
43:00
deal, you know, your jets in your motor homes and all that,
43:03
it would even be worse time wise.
43:05
And and so I did not do it, do it.
43:08
And that's the reason I didn't do it, OK.
43:10
And I came back home and we, you know, had some commercial
43:13
property here and started a couple little businesses and,
43:15
you know, do our thing to to kind of keep it going.
43:18
So, you know, but I will say, Kenny, a deep deal.
43:23
We're in Indy, we're doing this alumni group, the NASCAR alumni
43:27
group, which is one of the greatest things NASCAR in my
43:29
opinion, have done for competitors.
43:32
They're doing a big deal in the right.
43:34
We're going up. They've been trying to get a
43:36
hold of all the drivers. In fact, I've tried to help them
43:39
find some of these goofballs. They're trying to get as many
43:41
drivers as they can in the inaugural race to be up there.
43:44
They're going to put us together and do a picture or whatever
43:47
they whatever they're going to do right, which is pretty cool.
43:50
So I'm, I'm pretty thrilled, pretty thrilled about the alumni
43:53
group right now and. And let's end it like this,
43:56
Rick, I got the starting line up right here.
43:58
When I when I look at this, Rick Mast, Taylor and our OK, we're
44:03
going to end like this. I'm going to say these names.
44:05
And at the end you're going to go, I don't know where to find
44:09
that person. And listen, some, some of some
44:11
of past, some are dead, OK? But let's let's go through it.
44:15
And as a tribute, this is our tribute to the 1994 Regard 400.
44:21
So I'm going to say the names. You can jot them down, and you
44:24
can say I don't know how to get ahold of that person or that
44:27
person has died. OK.
44:31
Rick. Mass on pole.
44:32
Dale Earnhardt, Front row outside.
44:35
Jeff Gordon, Jeff Beaudine. Bobby Labonte.
44:38
Bill Elliott. Brett Beaudine.
44:41
Ricky Rudd. Sterling Marlin.
44:43
Mark Martin. Your top 10.
44:46
Morgan Shepard, 11th. Rusty Wallace, Greg Sachs, Dale
44:50
Jarrett, Michael Waltrip. Dave Marcus, Ernie Irvin.
44:55
Jeff Brabham, Rich Bickel and then 20th Hut.
44:58
Strickland 21st Terry Labonte, Wally Dahlenbeck.
45:04
Junior Ken Schrader, Jimmy Hensley, Todd Bodine, Danny
45:10
Sullivan, Darryl Waltrip, John Andretti.
45:14
Chef Purvis. Joe Nemechek 30th 31st Jeremy
45:21
Mayfield, Bobby Hamilton, Ward Burton, Jimmy Spencer, Bobby
45:27
Hillen, Kyle Petty. Teddy Musgrave.
45:30
Jeff Burton, Derek Cope. AJ Foyt started 40th and then
45:36
I'm assuming your provisionals 41st.
45:39
Lake speed handsome. Harry Gant started 42nd and the
45:44
very last starter was a guy named Mike Chase and I remember
45:47
him from the West Coast. So when I say the 43 starting
45:51
names as a tribute, give me your thought.
45:55
I've got a list here of names that Indy sent me for me to try
45:59
to find the guys. I'll be reading them off real
46:04
quick, dude. Bobby Hill and Dave Marcus,
46:07
Derrick Coke, Greg Sachs, Jeff Purvis, Jeremy Mayfield, Jimmy
46:10
Inslee, Jimmy Spencer Lake Speed, Mike Chase, Rich Bickel,
46:14
Ted Busgrave, Wally Dollenbach, Junior.
46:16
All right, That's the guys they sent me that they couldn't get a
46:19
holed up. So evidently everybody else is
46:21
on that list. They got a holed up.
46:23
I was able to help with. I got him Hillen's number, I got
46:26
him Marx's number, I got him Coke's number.
46:29
Didn't get Greg's Purvis. I got Jimmy Hensley.
46:32
I got Jimmy Spencer. I got Lake Speed.
46:35
I got Musgrave and I got dialing back.
46:38
I could not, could not find Chase down Mike Chase.
46:41
But somebody told me he was working at Penske.
46:43
Now, I don't know if it's say Mike Chase, but I got all those
46:46
dudes, man. Good stuff.
46:51
And I told him, I said. I just said along.
46:53
I said. Now here's Harry Gant's number.
46:56
I'm tired. You call him I.
46:58
Said listen, listen, I said if here's his number and I said if
47:02
you could get him to come to Andy, you will pull off the
47:05
biggest. I forget the word of the
47:07
vernacular I used, but the biggest deal that Yeah, that
47:11
ever happened in NASCAR because Harry Dunn doesn't go anywhere.
47:15
Yeah. And they sent me.
47:16
They sent me a note back. We've already tried Rick.
47:18
He ain't coming. All right, everybody listen.
47:24
That was the best time ever. Thank you Charlie Marlow.
47:28
What a wonderful idea. And once again we realize that
47:31
we can go on and on and on, but we what we did is we we started
47:38
with the 1994 Brickyard 400. We let Rick Mass tell us about
47:44
coming down to the green flag. Then we we talked about how did
47:48
the Brickyard 400 leave and go to the road course.
47:52
And we're tying the bow right now.
47:54
We are going back to the real racetrack.
47:57
And your final say, your final say go.
48:00
Ahead. Thank goodness for that.
48:02
You know what I mean. The core of what drove our sport
48:07
is the core, right? You can't change that
48:10
competition. When I boat that in my seat and
48:13
you're boat in your seat and they dropped the green flag, I'm
48:15
thinking, what have I got to do to kick Kenny Wallace's ass
48:18
today? What have I got to do to do
48:19
that, right? That's our core.
48:21
And there's so many cores about our sport that drove our sport
48:24
to be successful and popular. Indy 400, Brickyard 400 on the
48:29
big Oval. That was one of the that was one
48:32
of the cores. It needs to always be the same.
48:34
Yeah, unbelievable. I, I'm specially I, I want to
48:38
keep going. I want to talk about me and you
48:40
beating and banging in the in the Xfinity days.
48:43
But listen, we are in podcast form and once again Charlie
48:47
says, hey, podcast is getting big for the Kenny Wallace show.
48:51
I want to thank you all for that.
48:52
Remember we are on iTunes and Spotify.
48:55
That's where you go to listen to Rick Mass and this is a long
48:59
one. So you'll listen to Rick on the
49:01
way to work. You turn around, fire it back
49:03
up, listen to him and remember to always respond.
49:07
Tell us what you think of the Brickyard 400.
49:09
Subscribe right here. Until next time, the Kenny
49:14
Wallace show, Kenny conversation, coffee with Kenny
49:17
Rick Mass show. We just keep on rolling.
49:20
Goodbye everyone.