Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 078: Fishing for a Living

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Ep. 078: Fishing for a Living · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: severely bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything, April boy? Why so you kind of don't.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: You're not even like you never were an American. That's
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: one problem with you. But now you're not even like
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you're not even Canadian. No, no, I'm totally Canadian. But
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: you what's going on with Australia? All right? I live
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: half the year in Canada and half the year in Australia.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I fell in love with an Australian bloke. Yeah, Now
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: do people know what you've got going on? Which part
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: of it? You mean this enormous belly? I'm rocket right
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: now that they know? So? So you got wed locked.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Let's just be honest. I just ate so much Mexican
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: food before I got here. It's no no, I'm pregnant.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I got married and married and pregnant. How did all
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: that play out? Where were you when you met the Australia? Okay,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: we're going to start there. I was on a fishing
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: trip in Norway and just doing my usual thing. I
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: traveled the world, I fish, and I walked outside of
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: the farmhouse and there was this handsome, big, aussy man
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: with bright blue eyes. And that was that. And he
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: was a tourist too. Now he goes there every year
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: to fish. Well, yeah, yeah, sure he's a tourist. Yeah.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: What were you guys fishing for Atlantic salmon? You're a fish?
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Small mouth bass? Of course? I have, yeah, a large
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: mouth bass, Yes, of course I have. You know what,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I don't care. I'll bet you haven't caused many, is
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Matt Elliott as he laughs, well looking at bass, but
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know if many people have. It's pretty fancy,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: so along with the april bolk. Matt Elliott's here, Mat Elliott, Um,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: how many do? I just want to touch on one
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: thing real quick? How many bass have you caught in
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: your life? Nine hundred sixty two? You are not serious
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: right now? You don't count? Oh my god, it's gonna
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: work out, okay, But I've never caught one on a
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: fly rod. Seriously, I love fly fishing. Have you ever
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: seen a dude? Now, Matt has a genuine bass boat. Well,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have sparkles. I don't know mega sparkles. My daughter,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: the first thing my daughter noticed was that boat has
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: sparkles and the whole gel coat. Every color is sparkles.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I totally missed that. Right after Matt
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: showed me where they, oh, handles are hands? He showed
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: me how fat, I don't know how fast would we go?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: We were like, okay, it goes eight. That's fast enough
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: to make you hang onto those handles. It was so rough.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I can't believe how many boats are like Washington. Oh yeah,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: like yesterday we were out. It wasn't even close to today.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: But wait, wait, wait, wait, just a line of boats.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Back to sparkles. Why does a boat have to why
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: fat guys? Why are they flashies? Right? Yeah? Why what
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: is up with that? I don't understand. You're not a
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: lash you guy? I have no idea answer the sparkles question.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: But you have sparkles on your boat? Did you put
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: them there? Second? You bought a second hand at it
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: from a Matt is a now and then professional angler? Okay?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Is is is that fair to say? Is that what you
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: call it? Well? I thought, okay, I don't like. I
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: don't want to put it that way. I don't want
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: to put it that way. You you fish bass tournaments,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: but not as your main occupation and spend tens, including
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: the boat and all the gear and everything, you know,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of dollars, and every once in a
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: while we win. Like you're still you're still like running
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: at it. You're still at a deficit. Yeah, yeah, big time,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: big time. And so I had never gone real bass fishing.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've caught a lot of bass, but I've
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: never going out in by real bass question, I mean
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: out in a bass boat where no one is even
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: thinking about trying live bait and um catching bass and
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: letting them go. Yeah, and I did that yesterday like Matt.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I did like it. I like because I was learning
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: a lot. But Matt, so mats done, is caught. I
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: don't know how many baths. And the guy had never
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: eaten a bass until tonight. Yeah, oh cool, you kept Yeah,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: over we over killed yesterday. We kept four. We kept
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: three dinkers and one good one that had a hook
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: in its eye. I got some blood on the sparkles
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and then we just started killing. Yeah. What did you
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: think of your small mouth sandwich? It was really good.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: It was good. It's it's like a lake fish. Yeah,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: they now because Steve has a trick to get the
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: pin bones. Sal where he cuts a little v notch
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: in it and just pulls on it. They come right out. Yeah.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I learned it from my fishing mentor, John Gary, the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: late John Gary. Yeah, no remorse, No, I had some remorse.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I think I was telling you. So I actually did
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: a little guiding for salmon a long time ago, killed them,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: and I have no I have no problem just killing salmon,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: cutting gills and whacking him on the head. And yesterday
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: watching this small mouth on the top of the pile
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: of perch and the cooler with you know, breathing gills
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: move in the air with no water, I was feeling
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: kind of bad, which is which is very strange. Why
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: don't you bleed him out? Though? You don't need to
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: those fish? Yeah, you don't need to bleed those fish out.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Some do in Japan probably disagree with you. There's always
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: some dude somewhere who will do Yeah, that's right. Some
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: dude somewhere eat something that we would say you don't eat.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Some dude somewhere would disagree with you. Ask somebody anywhere
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: if you can eat carp and just watch the world explode.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Everybody has an opinion. And then how do you harvest them? Anyway. So, yeah,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: so you felt weird, but I'm over it. I think
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: it was just I needed to get over it. I
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: spent my whole life trying to save every beast I
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: catch fifteen minutes at a time, like sometimes trying to
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: pry a hook out, and he's like a surgeon getting
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the barbs. No, but wait, our basket. But our baths
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: like rainbow trot. If there's too many in a lake,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: they start to get kind of small. Yes, you definitely
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: can run into it, like a kind of a tragedy
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: of the common situation where it gets overpopulated. So you're
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: doing a favor to the fisher. It's important for people
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: to eat them. I just never have. I've spent all
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: this time trying to save them, and so kind of
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: looking at them, right, you're trying to save that. You're
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: trying to save something. Catch him again, Yes, that's it. Yeah,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: because it's not like you're like trying to save the
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: world by saving baths. You want him to be there
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: in case you want to come and catch him again,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: especially the dude like you, right, are they indigenous or
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: have they been introduced? They've been introduced, so like the
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Columbia River it's not a non native species. But they've
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: been in the river for a hundred years. Okay, but yeah,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: they're not the point he likes to raise because now
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: they're trying to wage war on small mouth as one
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: of many little things that they think might help salmon
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: because getting divert the attention away from Bonneville Power, who
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: likes to hold the water back so there's no flow,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: so none of the small can escape the predators, so
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: they escape goat everything. I'm on the record on that man. Yeah.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: So he's a bass. He's like a bass, not even
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: a preserve. He's a bass. He's a guy who likes
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: to see more bass in the world. Big bass, you
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: can cash. Okay, got it, well fed, big fat football bass. Yes. So,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: April Um, are you do you still guide here? Now? Wait,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: when you say here, do you mean in the States? Well,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: in this kind in the western of the industry? Yeah? No,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I you know, I I started guiding when I was
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: twenty one, and I always said I would only guide
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: ten years, and I did my my tenth year and
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: after that I was out. So you know, you're only
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: gonna guide ten years because if you don't put a
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: cap on it, you'll end up being a six year
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: old guide, And I just don't know. Yeah, honestly, I
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: don't know very many happy six year old guys. I
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: mean they might say they are. There may be a few,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: but it's rare. So I just always knew i'd do
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: ten years. And it got to the point where after years,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: when of the ten year? When was the tenth year?
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: So I stopped guiding three years ago. Yes, so I
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: still have a guiding operations. You can still book guide
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: trips for me. I'm just not going to be your
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: guide if they beg and plead. It's not that I mean,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: you can still take my classes. I still do a
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: lot of teaching, but yeah, I can't. You're not out
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: on the water with the client being cast over there,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: cast over there? Why are you hanging up on the
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: brank all the time? In ten hours, I mean ten
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: hours a day, you're sitting there being like I could
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: be doing so many other things right now, are doing
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: another business or hunting or fishing or I don't know.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I just got to the point where I was just
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: ready to have some me time for sure. And so
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: what was the year? How old were you? And what
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: was the year that you started doing it guiding. So
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I had been twenty one thirty four now and that
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: was guiding steelhead not not not really. So I actually
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: was a sturgeon guide on the Fraser. So I ran
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: a twenty north river on the Fraser River with a
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: different outfitter. Oh not fly poland no ship. Now I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: learned everything I learned on conventional gear. I mean I
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: was fishing. Yeah, hell yeah, that's yeah. I think that
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: if you really want to be kind of became like
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: a known person, I've a fishing to spoon all week
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: on my property of North trying to get a chinook
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: for the smoker. Oh, you know, I fish gear because
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I still I do believe that if you really want
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: to understand that fish behavior or species behavior, you have
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to fish. But not necessarily relax or he'll believe Steve
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: like you need to be able to fish like a
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: single hook of barbarous hook and BC. Right. But yeah, no,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: So I I guided for sturgeon and pacific salmon on
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: the Fraser for someone else catching sturgeon, how one with baits. Yeah,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: So I'd go out first thing in the morning, depending
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: on the time of year, if it's like the spring
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: or fishing. You know, maybe you're fishing cooligans, or maybe
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you're trapping ditch eels in the ditch and hay bales
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is. Right, but in the summertime, you're
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: going on. In the fall, you're going around first thing
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: in the morning, you're looking for seagulls in the water
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: because they're usually on top of a big floating dead salmon.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And then you go around in the morning and you
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: gather them, throw them in the bowl at a marinae
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: in the sun, and on the bow of your boat,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: let a marinate in the sun, and then they are
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And that's called stink bait. But I was a horrible,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: awful surgeon guide, horrible tragic about what measure like you
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: didn't catch surgeon. No, no, we cause surgeon. Any monkey
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: you can catch surgeon. But I mean, I'm proud of
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: the work I did right well, Like we were part
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: of party of a tagging program. We did a bunch
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: of work. We gave back, for sure, But um, I
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't great at figuring out the drop offs. And you
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: know the boat. I always seemed to anchor my boat
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: and the way of a tug boat and I don't know,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I just wasn't really My stick isn't really much and
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: I just wasn't patient enough dealing with a lot of
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: the funk withs out there and you're drinking vodka. You
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: can I say that on your show? Yeah, I think so. Sorry,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't really catch what it was. They were fun
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: what you say that in Australia? So you pick you
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: picked up you picked up some Australian lingo? Yeah, because
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: it just make it their funk with But yeah, I
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: know they get drinking on the boat. And it got
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: to the point where I was like, look, I'm not
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: a great surgeon guide. I'm going to focus more on
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: winter steel head trips. But my current employer, who was
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: honestly also a funk with um, he couldn't give me
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the trips I needed. So I broke off in two
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: thousand seven, so ten years ago, and I started my
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: own company. Yeah, and that's kind of how it went.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: But did I gather from what we're talking for, did
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: that gather your mom and dad weren't fisherman? No, No,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: not at all. What was the you know, like, what
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: what why were you like when when in your life
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: were you like, hey, you know, I'm gonna try to
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: catch a fish. Yeah, well I mean three four, yeah,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: But you know, I was more into the water, like
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I was always more about the outdoors in general. My
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: parents were totally opposed to hunting still are. My dad
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: will not speak to me about it. He'll leave the
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: room disgusted by it. It is not open for discussion.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: But the fishing, they were able to get their heads
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: wrapped around, and so they explained, you know, dad would
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: take me because he was from Newfoundland. We'd go and
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: we troll in the lakes for for trout. We'd use
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: worms and stuff. We weren't we didn't catch that many,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: but we went out and then would have been when
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I was about seven, I saw a big dead pacific
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: or like a chinook salmon, and it wasn't all rotted
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: out and gross and gray and black yet he was
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: still pretty silver and he'd obviously bumped its head or
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: whatever it was. And my parents explained that that huge
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: fish had to go from you know, they had to
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: get through a river that was only maybe thirty ft wide.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And so it's seven years old. I'm going, but it's
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: only wide, Surely I can catch that fish. And that
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: was when it was start him necked down right where
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and it was never the same after that, so I
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: had an allowance. The fishing shop was next door to
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the mall. My friends and I went to the mall.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: They spent their money on that. I spent my money
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: in the fishing shop. I stocked my plane o tackle
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: box and just counted down to get to be sixteen,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: and got my driver's license and skipped school and with
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: fishing every day and is long old. Not every day,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: but for the most part, for four days a week.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: And the deal was if I brought home straight a's
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: nobody cared. And that went on from sixteen to today.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Here we are, who How did it ever occur to
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: you you would make the you'd make a living fishing.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: That's like, did you run into fishing guides? No? Well no, thankfully,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: because if I had, maybe I wouldn't have gone down
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: this route. I mean, I knew that fish, that guiding
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: for fish was definitely an option, how much like I'll
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: try to give you like the run the quick version
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: of it. So when I was eighteen, nights seen some
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: fly fishers, and at this point I knew that's what
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do for a living, because I wanted
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to be able to go fishing every day, and basically
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: the only way you still need to eat, right, you
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: need to pay your bills and stuff, and so from
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: there I just was like, well, how am I going
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: to do this? And guiding was obviously the first thing
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: that came to mind, but there's other ways to make
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: money in the fishing industry. So I wrote a list
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: of all the pots to put my fingers in, and
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: then I put together a plan to make it work,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: and there was Yeah, so at the time there was.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I was actually a sales rep once for a real
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: company that didn't work very long. This diuldn't go very well,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: but then merchandise, and then television writing, time, custom flies, teaching,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: guiding obviously, and then come commissionable trips, and then that was.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: This is all pre social media. Social media did not
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: exist at this time. So if I, if I had
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: known that, I would have factored in all the other
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: aspects of influencing and you know, sponsors and stuff, But
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: at the time that was not on the table. So
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: it's pretty much just the basic basic ways of getting
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: by the face, he just knew you were going to fish. Yeah,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: well I had to make it work, and then what
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: happened was I was a cocktail server at night at
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the casino. So now you know fast forward. So basically,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: I'm a gear fisherman. I'm I'm sixteen, seventeen. I meet
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: this guy when I'm seventeen. He turns into my best
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: fishing betty. He's in the sixties. He was running into me.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: He's like, girl, it's dangerous out there. We should fish.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I thought it was weird and creepy. My parents come
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: out with me one day. For sure, he had to,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I thought anyway, he wasn't. No. Turned out he was
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: like my second dad. So my parents came and met him.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: His name was Dave Peffer. I love you, Dave, You're
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: the ship. So he ends up taking me fishing, and
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: for my eighteenth birthday, he and all the old guys
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: gave me my first ever I rod and a bunch
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: of VHS tapes and a bunch of jig tying material.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: So now I'm paving them. I'm getting ready to start
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: this fly fishing thing. Come back you up a minute, Yeah,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: go for it. Couple things I noticed that people that
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: fly fish refer to say gear, but guys don't say gear,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Like what what what what comes to mind when you
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: hear the word gear any sort of conventional fishing, So
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: like spin casting, um, um yeah, center pins, but only
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: like fly fishermen use the term gear to talk about
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: all the kinds of ways of yes and no, like
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: a gear fisherman will call it, you call yourself spin fisherman.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: What do you call yourself? Carslf a gear fish, bass
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: fishing and if and and the way I differentiate the
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: two you said it is fly fishing and conventional fishing
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: ways I say it. I don't say gear fishing. Where
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: people were fly fishing before spinning wheels came out, right,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: that's point it. So so why is it conventional fly fish?
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Is conventional gear? Yeah? Yeah, it's a good point. It
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: helps him sell those nine Okay, so that's that's one question.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: But but and then you've got a tough skin growing
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: up where you grew up, and then you go and
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: that and that want to help being helpful with social media,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: But I mean, like I don't understand, like what do
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: you what do you mean that you had a hard
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: time with social because I feel like you kind of like,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: uh so I thought you kind of you kind of
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: like built your career on social media. Well, well that
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: depends on who you ask. Just because somebody may have
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: learned about me in social media doesn't mean I built
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: my career on social media. I built my career on guiding,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and the social media followed as a way of marketing, right,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: So so you know, obviously it was able to it worked.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: It was the right time that it worked. But there's
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: just a lot of hate because there weren't a lot
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: of people doing it at that time. So people were
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: hateful that you were using social media, or people were
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: hateful that you were what like people that weren't weren't
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: mad at every buddy who used social media. Well, there
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: weren't that many people trying to sell themselves on faith.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: This is just Facebook. So yeah, promoter, Yeah, who does
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: she think she is? Shameless? Self promoter didn't like that, no,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: because I was just trying to I was using it
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: as a marketing means like it was. It was a
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: new way of marketing. If I were to publish all
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: my stuff in a magazine, it was no big deal.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: If I were to go ahead and put it on television,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: it was no big deal. If I were to go
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to the clubs and speak no big deal teaching whatever.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: But for some reason, Facebook this big unknown, which just
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: we've just developed a lot of hatred. And at the
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: same time, the forums are coming right, so now you
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: got them hand in hand, and they were just straight
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: up unkind because innovation scares people, scares everybody. And this
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: is before Instagram and step, before everybody in the world
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: was a famous outdoors person hashtag. And that's back when
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: every other article in like a business magazine was like,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: if your company spending money on a social media manage,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: you're an idiot. You know. Yeah, Now companies up three
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: or four of them. It was just different. It was
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: just it was just like remember the first year of Facebook.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I mean it was just the first year. What were
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: you trying to get out of it? Because like if
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you got if all of a sudden you're full balls
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: into social media. Was it like you were thinking, I'm
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: going to do this to book clients. I'm gonna do
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: this too, like create some new thing and bring a
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: level of renwn. I just know I just wanted to
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: bring clients. So I was the guiding company. But it
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: became something must have become something more than that after that,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: because you don't guide anymore, but you still do it. Well,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: it has for all of us. Look what social media
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: has become better. We'll get there. But at the time
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: it was that if I had a guiding operation and
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I was the only guide, you had to know who
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I was if you were going to be guided by me.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: And so I used magazines as well and speaking in
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: clubs and teaching and doing all the other things that
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: we've always done. And social media didn't work. Yeah, of
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: course it did. So the so the it was like
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of plause and six applause and success, but
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: it was tempered by some hate. For sure. I get
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: was scared. It was confusing for people too, because I
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: would waitress wmber. I told you I cocktailed all night,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So I would serve at night and I would waitress
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: from eight thirty pm to four thirty in the morning,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: or from ten o'clock pm to six am, and then
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I'd go straight to the river after COCKTAILNG so I'd
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: had my hair done and my hair down and makeup
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: did and like because I was a sturgeon guy, because
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I still fish bait. Sometimes I had bait under my nails.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: So the cocktail rules you have to have nice hands,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: if you're handling chips in the casino. So the only
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: way to get around it was I had to put
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: nails on. So I just had an image that was
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: confusing to people. They just couldn't wrap it. You were
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: like sexualizing fishing. I mean I would have been sexualizing
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: fishing if I was running around with my tits hanging out.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like that. I mean I just looked in
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a way. I had makeup on. I had a look
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: that was not the norm, and people didn't like it
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: was up. For sure. It looked like I would have
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: spent all night putting makeup on. But the reality is
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to go home to take it off.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Like but let's say you didn't work the night before, Yeah,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: would you then go out? Like would you then get
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: done up or not get done up? No, I just
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: go to the river. But people would see that and
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: they would be like, this is like this new selling
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: of something in the way like I want to sell
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: it in the way I'm comfortable with, which is me
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: smoking a pipe whatever cup creo. Yeah, it was really
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: frustrating time for me because and then pres because you're
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: a good looking girl and like a lot of dudes
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: hate good looking girls. Yeah, I get it. That's some
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: sad ship, get it. I judge, I can't help. But
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: when I see a woman like I can't tell I
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: either want to have sex or or I want to
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: kill her. I think there's a lot of guys are
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: kind of both. I mean, just like a thing that
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: happens with dudes is like that. But they couldn't hear
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: what I was saying. And that was the problem was
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: all these companies that are now jumping on board, and
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: everybody wants to have a piece of the pie. That's
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: not meant to be a pun I'm just saying, right,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: so they want to have a piece. So now suddenly
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: your image is being used, and if you don't even
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: own a photo, graph is being sold without you know
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: at the time, it's being sold at your permission. Your
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: image is being used now in a way that you
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily want it to be used. And so now
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: you're in a situation where you're not being heard, but
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: you're being seen, which is really hard for me because
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I have a lot to say that my podcast is
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: the best thing I ever did, Because now suddenly, if
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: you can't see me, you have to hear me, and
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I think I've got some half decent things to say.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, so what you'll notice, And this is
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: going to sound pretty silly, but I've actually so remember
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I told you I got a ten years, and I've
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: taken a step back, my big step back. I'm done television.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I'm done with all this stuff. My big step back
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: because I'm slowly removing my face. That's the whole point
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: of my entire career and always has been the whole plan. Look,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: excuse me. So some girls want the attention. When you're
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: a cocktail server and you're from Surry, you get all
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: the attention you need. Okay, you're pumping gas, you got attention.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: You're walking on the street, you get attention. You go
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: into safe way, you get attention. Like I don't want
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: the attention. I never wanted the attention. You get it
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: anyway as a chick. So it just when it started
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: coming into my career. I mean, sure, yeah, maybe it
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: helped my career, maybe it didn't. I don't know. It
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: wasn't my main focus. But now it's exhausting. It's just exhausting.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I don't want any of it. So I'm removing my
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: image from the industry and putting my voice in my
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: words out there, and that for me, has been the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: most rewarding thing I've ever done. Like my social You'll
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: notice it's not narcissistic. There's not a bunch of selfies
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: and stuff, you know, it's like, it's it's experience. It's
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: it's maybe what I'm experiencing it. Maybe my captions are
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: through my eyes. It's I'm definitely using the experience, my
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: words and my voice now to be heard rather than
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: my image. And that's been a very very conscious effort
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: for sure. Has getting married and now, yes, it's the
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: best thing I ever did. A lot of girls get
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: married and they're too afraid to tell people because they
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: don't want to lose their following. I went from people
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: wasting yeah, oh my god, you have no idea how
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: many women out there have got significant others because they're
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: thinking like once mugs, No, what's that like? Once mugs No,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: the guys, once folks fellas, No, that I'm taken. Because
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I think guys care. They'll be like, well, I'm not
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: gonna follow her anymore because now I'm not gonna be
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: able to date her. I see it all the time.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: It's it's hilarious. Really, that's a guy that this guy
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: you feel that there's evidence to suggest No, No, of course,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think guys the girls think that way. Yeah,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I know girls think that way. Okay, but I thought
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: they were thinking that way because that's what they know.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Her perception is. Yeah, yeah, let's make
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: sure I'm getting this right, that that they think that
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: if if people know that I'm married, guys won't follow
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: me because they all harbor this or want to go
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: on my trips or anything and that, and that doesn't
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: lead me down the path. So I will say that
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you a quick story about that. Yeah, Okay.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Years ago, I spent some time a significant amount of
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: time in San Jose, California. I had a girlfriend that
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: was doing a writing fellowship in San Jose, California. So
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I was living in Montana but bouncing back and forth
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: a fair bit. And we got to be friendly with
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: a sushi chef and his cousin, Okay, who was the
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: waitress in the sushi restaurant. Just two of them worked there.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: It was a guy the dishwashing the bag, and we
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: become social to the point where we're even going out
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: to dinner together with the cousins. One day it comes
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: out it was a slip up, and it comes out
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: was that they're in fact boyfriend girlfriend and we're shocked
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and like why, and I don't really understand. I was
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: afraid he wouldn't want to commit anymore. Yes see, that's
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. If you knew that the waitress
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: was my girlfriend and that she was taken, what would
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: bring you in? That's that's crazy to me. How much
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: faith we became friends before he would tell me. But
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: that's my that's my point. How much faith or faith
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: do you not have in your products if that's what
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: you're relying on. I'm not that girl. I met Charles
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: in the second I met him, I knew I was
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: going to marry him. I put it up on my website,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: like guys, gals, I found in love in my life
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: and a story. It doesn't matter, and you know why.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: It was the best thing that ever happened to me.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: My emails went from a bunch of people wasting my
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: time to suddenly people who legit. I've got now something
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: about a mature audience who really wants to book me
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: for my trips and they want to use You're not
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: gonna be on the trip. No, yeah, of course not.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: And that was that was the biggest eye opener for me.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: But yeah, getting married is one of the best things
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: that I ever did. And it was also very you know,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: it was very very aware of making it clear to
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the world that I was taking because I don't think
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: it should make a difference. If it makes a difference,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I don't want your I don't want your business anyway.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: So it pulled some of the like, it pulled some
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: of the sex isn't the right word, but it pulled
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: some of the like sexual tension out of the air.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: It did for me with bookings for sure. What it
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: did do it because they're like, hey, I'm gonna go
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: on a trip with this gal, right, maybe really like me. Well,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: what it did with my host of trips, Yeah, that
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: changed everything. So I've always had Yeah, I've always had
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: a hard time selling host of trips and honestly, I
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: hate them and make no money off of them and
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: end up babysitting it's a waste of time. But when
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I did do the occasional host of trip, all my
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: clients were we're divorcement because married men were not allowed
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to go with me, and women never wanted to spend
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: more than X amount of dollars, and the couple's market,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: as much as everyone would like to think that couple's markets,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: like the saving grace, is just not there. What can
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: you explain for people what you mean by a hosted trip? Yeah,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: so there's this thing. It's actually really cute. I get
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of people email me and they'll be like,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I want to I want to follow in your steps.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I want to make money off of social media and
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: host the trips. And I have to take a step
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: back and be like, hey, you realize that that's not
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: how I make my living, right, like not even a
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: little bit. So the thing is is with the host
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: of trips, you go on a trip and you make
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: if you don't have charge, you make commission on the trip, right,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: But then you still have to pay for your flight.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Maybe the company pays your flight out. So now you're
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: making X amount of dollars per person. So it's someone
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: saying we're gonna there's a trip you can come up
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: and fish get a free trip and fifteen percent commission
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: or twenty percent commission on everyone you bring. So I
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: get eight people to come with me. You go out
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to markets to people. Yeah, not only did maybe one
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: or two of those a year because I hate and
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: it might be like, hey, we're going fishing trout and Argentina.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: It was a lodge. You get people all excited to
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: come and fish with you. We're doing the guiding, but
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: you're bringing the clients down and we'll give you a cut,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: a sales commission. Exactly right. That's a host of trips.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: How did you know that? Yeah? Yeah, and a lot
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: of people think that they make that you can make
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: good money that way. I don't know, it's just not
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: my thing. Yeah, most guys probably just do it to
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: get to exotic location. There's there's there are other ways
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: to do it, or you can just actually like make
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: your money doing other stuff and pay to go on
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: a trip. So I don't know. The host the trip
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: thing for me was kind of over, and then after
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I got married, it was definitely over. Nobody wanted to
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: go with not nobody. I mean I had people, but
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: they were all the divorce men were suddenly out, which
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: in my life way easier because I didn't have to
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: deal with any of that, you know, questioning what people's
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: true incentives were, so all in all, like if you
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: look at the whole thing, if you look at all
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: to ask most of your career. Okay, so let's just
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a staff here, and there's like six
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: things you'd like, six money generating things that you do.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's added on since then with the evolution
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: of the world we have today. But yeah, sure, say
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: there's six pots to put your fingers in. Okay, do
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you feel that your fingers have gotten deeper into those
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: pots thanks to being a woman or in spite of
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: being a woman. Oh, that's a really good question. It
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: depends on the pot um. That's a really good question.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I reason I asked because I would think this and
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: and uh, I would think that that that in the
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: outdoor world. There is a certain level of excitement about
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: a woman in the outdoor world because it's been it's
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: like traditionally this male dominated thing. So there's sort of
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: a like there's a bit of excitement and a quite
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: a bit of hatred and envy. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: are you talking about just a regular woman? Are you
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: talking about a talented woman? Because it's very different. I'm
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: just talking about the fact that you have the participation
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: rates like, Okay, let's take hunting for instance. I know
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: this numb. I don't know what fishing and hunting was
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: a participation rate. Okay, So if you look at the
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I think that if you looked at um, people making
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: their living in the hunting industry, I would have to
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: guess that people making a living in the hunting industry,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: probably women are probably man. It's really difficult to say. No,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it for you. Well, let me finish.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Let me because I have fully said it. Point on
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: prime time tell I remember there's a point on prime
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: time television and prime time drama that gays became overrepresented
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: in prime time drama or the percentage of gays for
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: trade in prime time d it was higher than the
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: percentage of gays in the American population. We hit an
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: over not that this is I'm not presenting this as
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: a negative. Just and someone came up with this idea
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: that we hit like an overrepresentation. Okay. Now, if you
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: were to look our women, like our women overrepresented the
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing thing, or do they come in at
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: hunting people in the you know, yeah, look it's yeah,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: it's catering to the minority is what it is, and
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: so I feel and I have watched a little bit
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: of this hunting thing to go down. I don't have
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: numbers for either industry, but yeah, I think there's definitely
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and I think the numbers are growing. I mean, let's
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: just talk fishing specifically, because that I can speak on
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: for sure. The numbers have absolutely grown, for sure, but
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: there's definitely an over um. There's definitely. I think there's
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: a little too much catering. I think that is. I
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of women hashta and and guys.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Let's let's just keep a gender gender neutral. People who
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: think that because they have a certain amount of people
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: following their social media that they can throw out a
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: hashtag it's suddenly now they're worthy of a sponsor. Like
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: that really bothers me. I've got a real problem with that.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't understand what that means. Well, yeah,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: because do you even do your own social you do?
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: How many like Instagram? Use Instagram? Yeah? I like it too.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: I gave up, like, well, I'm not I'm not gonna
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: talk about that. I like Instagram. Okay, that's fair. I know,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: like the crowd. I got it, I got okay. So
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: it's really frustrating for me, though, to see somebody who's
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: been doing this for three months and there their credibility
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: is faced on the amount of followers that they have.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense? I have a real problem with
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: that because maybe I'm old school, but I just remember
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: when you actually credibility and something more than that, like
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: you had to be good, like when I was. Now,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I've only been in this industry for fifteen years, but
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: you still had to be good. You had to be good,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: and I still believe today you have to be good.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: And I get really shitty about it. I mean, the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: hunting thing. I'm gonna be totally honest with you. You know,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I'm new to hunting. It's been like I got my
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: first bow to or three years ago, right, like pretty new.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I've had people trying to sponsor me in hunting. No way,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I am not incredible. I'm not don't try. Everyone listening
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: to this podcast who sponsors Steve, don't sponsor me. I'm
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: not there yet. I'm serious and I'll never I'll never
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: make a living in there saying they're looking. They're saying, like,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not looking for expertise. I look at her engagement,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: and I just I don't think it's cool. I don't
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: think that it's right. I don't think I'm worthy of it.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: And I don't think that you should play. I don't
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: think you should be a fraud. I think you should
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: keep it authentic. I don't think that I don't think
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: all this. Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. So
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with the first one. I'm gonna go
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: first one. What you were talking about an overrepresentation of
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: gaze or females or whatever it is. I was thinking
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: about that. It's almost like a slingshot. What it is
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: is a response to suppression. And I can I back
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: up and say that like Matt does marketing, Yeah, yeah,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: this is Matt does marketing for a for a large
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: successful night company. He can tell you what it's called
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: with a lot of credibility and and there authentic brand,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: bench made knife company. So I was thinking about that
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: almost like a slingshot, Like the farther you pull it
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: back once you release it, the more reaction. It's it's
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: almost like you know when of Newton's laws, Like you're
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: just gonna end up with a greater response to it,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: because it's been suppressed for so long that it's going
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: to take more momentum to overcome. Right. And you're saying
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: pulling back mean the holding back of the female voice, right,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: So it becomes more and more unique, the more right,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: and then it becomes more marketable because it's more unique, right. Uh.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: And and that I mean, I guess that's the way
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I would look at that, But it's not fair. I
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: just feel like so. So so then the other thought
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I had was that people are good. It depends be honestly,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: were talking about this earlier. We're talking about camera guys
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: versus hunters and how it's better to take a camera
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: guy and train him to be a hunter than to
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: take a hunter and train him to be a camera guy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: it's it's easier. Problem. No, no, you just ignore the
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: keep going. So the reason I'm saying that is because
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: you said that you have a problem with people like
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: trying to sponsor you because for hunting. But maybe they're
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: seeing in you an opportunity for someone that's a really
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: good host and in that and I've had them say that,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: and that's cool, not all hunters, but don't sell it hosts.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Don't you think George Foreman is really really really good
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: at making fat free grill? Where do you want to
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: draw the line of this conversation? I mean, but look
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: at any like spokesman did O J. Simpson was, He like,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you one thing I know about. It's renting cars.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, fair, But you had a really good
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: point there. I mean, what do you want me for?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: What do you want me for? Do you want me
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: because I'm a good host? Do you want me because
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: of my conservation efforts? Or do you want me because
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: you think that my social media following is going to
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: drive you the traffic? Yes, because they're not. They're paying
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: for it, you know. I mean, ultimately, the people that
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: are coming to you want you to be able to
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: provide for them return on their investment. That's right. And
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: I did it with fishing, and I will not do it.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: And so it's totally okay to take that stand. Right.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: It's just that not all there are so many killer,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: so many killers. Yeah, I forget who that guy was
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: and said those deer hunters are just killers, and there
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: are so many guys are just killers. Right, But that
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: does not mean that they would make good personalities, good
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: television show hosts, any of that, And like I'm going
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: off on a tangent here, But the coach of the
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: New England Patriots, Bill Belichick, he he has always said
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: that it's easier to train football skills than it is
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: football intelligence. So he looks for players with football intelligence
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: and then he trains them up on the game he
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: wants them to play. Yeah, but there's just so many
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: talented hunters and legit female and male hunters, and legit
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: female and male fly fishers, and I just would like
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: to see a little more of that credibility go to them,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: even if it means they have half the amount of following.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: I just would like to see the game played a
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: little more fair. That's honestly feel that. I honestly that's magnanimous.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: If you do well, That's that's where I'm at. You'll
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: never see me sponsored by a company in in hunting, never,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I give my word. You might. Someone might send me
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: something free and I'll wear it, but you're not going
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: to be seeing me tag it all over the place,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: and you're not going to be seeing some sort of
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: signed The old relationships gonna flat ass turn it down. Yeah,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: because I've done it. If they come to you and
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: say this, oh hit me with it, let's hear it.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Better be good. Better be good? Uh, April, I know
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: you're not a I'm coming at you on the voice right, Okay,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I'm the guy. There's only one angle you could go
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: on this to get me. Let's hear it. I know
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: that you're entering this journey. Okay, great start yea um.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: And I think that there's a lot of young women
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: in this country who would like to take this journey
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: with you, and who better to walk along side by
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: side in this journey of discovery? Then they better let
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: me be so unbelievably audience honest to the audience that
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I'm green as green gets. And I don't know if
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: I want to be that vulnerable in the public eye honestly,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: But yeah, did you like my pitch? I thought it
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: was good. The only other pitch that hit me in
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: the heart once that was pretty good was somebody said
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: to me, we're not seeing a lot of women in
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: the sport with the conservation um to turn like mindset
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: that you have. It's refreshing to see it. We like
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: to see that it is starting to happen with even hunting.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: We'd like to support you. And I said, that's cool,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you can send me stuff. I cannot have some sort
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: of announced relationship with you. And they said, that's totally understandable, Matt, Matt,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: give her a pitch, work up a pitch, you guys,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: I want my integrity just it's just there's no amount
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: of money on it. I pitch. Look at him like
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: the sweetie is so Hebbly doesn't pitch, so he gets pitched. No,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: that's true. I do end up getting pitched more than
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I pitch. So no, yeah, we come up with I'll
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: come up with ideas generally on the on the fly.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: So I don't necessarily know that I would have a
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: pitch for April Day, but but I do, But I
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: really do. I do think actually what you said would
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: have some merit, you know, in in that they're like that, well,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: there is some There's something to be said about female
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: hunter retention, not necessarily just recruitment, but retention. I was
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: at I was at every year at Shot they do this.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: The company that does Shot show is the Shooting Sports Foundation,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: and they have this research breakfast and I heard at
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: that research breakfast that although like it's the big thing
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: to say is that that females are the are the
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: fastest growing new new like demographic entering the hunting market.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: But what they don't tell you is that they're also
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: the fastest leaving. So they're not being because rights because
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: all they're measuring is licensed buying. So what they're not
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: telling you is that that they enter and they get
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: no support, no help. The only person they have to
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: go with is maybe their boyfriend or someone else that
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: kind of got him into it, and then they just
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: give up on it. And having someone like yourself being
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: able to help to drive that man should provide a
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: community for people to follow it didn't come along and
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: offer support, could really could really give some someone a
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: base to have confidence in theirselves as a female hunt
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Since I got married because I made I co worced
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: a boatload of girlfriends and buying hunting tags. They never
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: went back, didn't you didn't? Didn't you? Was it you?
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Are you telling me that you is that maybe that
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: was brody? Somebody had never hunted at all, didn't somebody killing?
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: She were just talking she'd never hunted before. And then
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: in the spring, uh got a black beart turned around
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: and got a mountain go a big horn. Yeah, she
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: is telling Yeah, of course it was no. No, Uh,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: then didn't hunt anymore. Oh no, you're serious. Oh you
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: didn't just put it on her tag gonna. I said,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do this, get you hunter safety. We're gonna
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: put you in for all these permits and tags and whatnot.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: We're gonna tear it up. Yeah. But were you putting
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: her kill on your she actually went hunting. No, I'm
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: saying no. She spring season she killed a bear, yeah,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: and then she left. No, in fall station she killed
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: the mountain go with a big horn. Yeah. But then
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: after all, after that year, she was stop going out
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: and it was just like she was like that was
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: fun and just didn't feel like. I just didn't keep hunting.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: I didn't stick. She was in the same way, the
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: same way that if she let's say I went to
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: do something with her, like, let's say we went down
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: like I used to have a girlfriend. We go down
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: to this thing, um, we go down to these lectures
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: by Jewish scholars about um really old Jewish law. Okay, Uh,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: she'd like to do that. I went along with her.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: We broke up. I didn't keep going to that ship.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: It just went because it was like something she wanted
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: to go do my wife now, and then on our
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: date night, I go with my wife to do yoga
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: in a super hot room. Good for you. I've done
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: that six times now. If God forbid somewhere to have
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: my wife, I would knock go down and do yoga
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: in a super hot room. But I do it because
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: she likes to go do that with me. Yeah. So
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I've had a lot of not a lot, but I
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: had girlfriends over the years. A number added up over time.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Who I would be like, dude, we're going, did you
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: fill this ship out? Get this thing, let's go. If
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for lazy, I would never watch another episode
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: of The Bachelor forever again. And then when it's something
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: of having forbid, he's done. No more Bachelor, no more Bachelor.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I don't even know you guys are talking about right
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: now television program. Well Bachelor's um what okay, here's another
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: thing because I want to lay off you on this
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: ship for a little while. No, it's fine, it's really
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: totally in BC. You have to use a barblous hook
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: no matter what you're fishing for. Yeah, I think in
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Lake fishing you made No, I'm gonna say single barbelous. Yeah,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: you have to use the barblous hook fishing for bass.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I haven't actually done anything. This is
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: what I'm really getting at, is this, Why don't bass
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: guys Matt use Barblous? Yeah, Matt, I'll tell you why.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: If you guys don't really really care about bass. Oh
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: you went down the road, I'm gonna sit back and
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: eat my popca. You know what I mean. I feel
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: like you guys like um, like, why not barblous? I
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: think that every fisherman's motivation is ultimately somewhat selfish. Sure,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: because if it wasn't you just leave him alone? Right,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't fish because it's not good. I don't I
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: don't care. I don't care if you're fishing Barblous or whatever. Right,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: you are putting a hookie in vicious face. And if
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you didn't care, if you if you literally cared completely
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: about their survival, then you just wouldn't do it. Although,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: but you will have a higher survival rate if you
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: can get the hook up actor, and I will take
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: I'll take that back only in the fact of what
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: we were mentioned earlier with without retention, the actual population
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: actually can end up in a worse position. Right, But
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: don't you think you could pop out the hook faster
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: if it was Barbara? Yes? Yes, I agree. I also
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: think that bass are much hardier fish species and traded.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Hey have you ever tried this before? Have you ever
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: tried I don't know if this is not since or not,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: but I have tried it once and it did seem
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: to work on a on a big bass end. Where
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: was I was Michigan? Who's the Michigan person here? Yeah? Yeah,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: so um you ever heard that if it's gushing blood
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: and you yeah, I didn't. It worked it. You can
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: see it start to clock coagulata, does it? So? Bass
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: fisherman will keep like a canus brighter can of coke
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: in their boat and you just pour coke down their
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: throat and it totally. Seriously, I'm no fish. I don't
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: know fish, doctor, but I kind of feeling of what
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: you're seeing is I think that maybe you're remedying a
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: you're remedying a visual symptom. Maybe, so I will say,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: next the chew tin and there and there some seeds
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: they keep it pop back to your question about me
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: caring for not caring for bass. Just two examples of this.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: I once had when I was guiding back when I
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: was guiding, not for bass, for salmon and trout. I
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: had that client. We caught a six pound leopard bow
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: and he really wanted to hold it, and as I
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: told him, no, I said, if you want to hold it,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: you can hold it overside the boat in the net.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: You can explain the fish, because don't like a leopard
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: bow is a native rainbow trout in Alaska there they
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: have these huge black spots. They're incredible there. I've never
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: even heard of it. They're they're amazing fish. Yeah, they're
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: they're incredible. And he caught leopard leopard rainbow trout. It's
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: just like a super spotted rainbow. Because the life aquatic.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: What's the shark there after? I don't, well, the jaguar shark.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: That's so the huge vacist fish. But trout are notoriously
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: although their varacious predators are notoriously fragile, the delicate fish, right,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: And so I told no, you cannot take and he
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: just continued to plead, and final I said, okay, I'm
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: gonna hand you this fish. And yes, I said gonna
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: hand you this fish. I had the boat pushed into
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: the bank. I said, hey, it is fish. I watch
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: you alo onto it. I'll take a picture of you.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: And I gave him the fish. And what do you
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: think happened? He looks like a bar soap. It went
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: out of his hands and landed straight on its head
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: in the boat. Done. I sat in the water. I
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: sat in the water for thirty minutes, you know, the
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: frigid water up to my arms. Fish and it would
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: do the thing where it would kind of kick and
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: then you let it go in and fall on inside,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: and I do it again. And I will do the
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: same thing with the bass. So it's not about me
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: not caring or not caring for baths. And I do
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: really care about fish in general. That being said, I
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: care about fish because I love fishing. And if my
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: love for fishing makes me care about fish, does it
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: really matter if I care about the fish because I
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: care about the fish or because I love fishing, and
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: that's what I like. Whatever it takes for me to
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: care about the resource. And I feel the same way
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: about hunting and conservation, and that if nobody cared about it,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: if nobody hunted, if nobody. If hunters really care about
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: those animals, and if those animals didn't have people that
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: wanted to engage with them, that appreciated them for what
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: they were, and that were involved in that, then they
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be in the condition that they were in today,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: and there wouldn't be financing, financing behind it or any
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: of that. So I just I don't know if it
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: if it matters, You're right the reason I do. Ultimately,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: the reason I do care about fish is because I
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: love fishing. It's not because I just love fish. What
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: you just said it was totally on point about like
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: people need to know about something for them to actually
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: care enough about it to protect it. The reason that
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: that we don't use barbarous hook so is because they're
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: much easier to get into the boat because you catch more.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: And I think that comes from the tournament culture, because
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: you know, there's guys fishing tournaments, mostly guys with gals
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: to fishing tournaments, and sometimes in these tournaments, especially at
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: the high levels, of people aspire to those fish. The
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: difference of ounces can mean the difference between a twenty
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: dollar check and a hundred and twenty five dollar check. Yeah, Okay,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: that's but that brings it to a whole different reason
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: of fishing. But that culture, I think it sort of
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: drives that. And bass also are not as fragile, like
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: you're you're gonna be able to release the bass and
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: there there's a good chance for the boy. If you
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: did that to a trout, there's no way. There's Another
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: big factor to consider is that bass aren't are would
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: be on the i u c N List, they'd be
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: species of least concern. I mean there is no, uh,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: there is no conservation concern whatsoever on large mouth and
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: small mouth bass. Typically you see maybe region maybe in
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: some regions, some watersheds, but I mean in a in
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: a national sense. They both those species are found way, way,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: way outside of their native ranges. Yes, they're very hardy, right,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: it's like a coyote that is everywhere. Yeah, so you're
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: removing the idea that you're gonna like go and in
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: a mess up something some systems, ecosystem. If anything, it's
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: the opposite. Yeah. Yeah, you find the places like the
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Columbia River they've decided where they become exotic, deleterial. And
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: they even said at the hearing about that we don't
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: know if this is gonna work. We don't even know
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: if there's going to have an impact on salmon species
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: at all. But whatever, we're just gonna do it because
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: they're not native. Yeah, I don't even want to go
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: down that road. You don't want to get me started
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: on that. Um, you don't where you from. There's no
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: like April, you don't. You don't kill steelhead. No, well,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: we kill hatchery steelhead if we're unfortunate enough to have
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: a hatchery system in place. But now where I live.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: So I live in northern BC on the Bulkley River,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: and it's illegal to pertain wild steelhead, thank god, just
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: flat out yeah. I mean I'd like to be able
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: to retain wild steel I wish there were to harass
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: and hook them in a lot of places, is not. Yeah,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of Thompson was my goat to spot. I mean,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: I cut my teeth in a lot of ways in
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: the Thompson. But it's shut down and it got low enough,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: or they can't even risk you killing one on accident,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: not even accident, no no, So yeah, I mean, and
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: we all want to be able to retain steel head.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: We're not like a bunch of hippies here, like we
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: want to retain steel head to eat them, but there's
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: just not enough of them out there, right, Like it's
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: a really fine line. It's a really sensitive subject. And
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of fisheries that are open to fish, I
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: won't fish because I don't feel like it's it's moral.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's right. Like you feel like
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: they should get a reprieve. Yeah, I feel like the
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: fisher should be shut down for sure. But BC is
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: pretty not BC is not bad. BC is pretty good
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: with their regulations, regulations. I feel, so explain to your
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: guiding business that you're still involved in but don't guide. Yeah,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: I mean I guess, I guess technically i'd be a
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: booking agent nowadays. Technically, yeah, I don't have staff. I
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: don't have guides on salary or anything. I mean I
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: did for the first year or so, I tried to
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: have guides just you know, they'd be I'd pay them
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: their day rate, I'd take my cut or whatever. But
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: it just makes it's just way I guess I don't understand. Yeah,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: So here's so here's like, so say my day right,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: say my day right? For a walking wade was six
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: hundred bucks. Right, So then what my other options were
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: that might be what a steelhead guard makes. Say, yeah,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: say for walking, what's the bass guid make, But we're
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: talking about boats. I'm talking walking person for the boat
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: that boat only carries too oh yeah, no, so so
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: it gets to being more expensive than that and BC
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: with boats. But then say to say I make my
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: six bucks, right, so you're saying like wade fishing, wade fishing,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: God might make six hundred bucks in a day. But
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: now what will happen is say I've got a guy
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: that I've got to pay my guy bucks an hour
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: for eight hours. So it's costing me two bucks, but
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: I'm still I'm still charting bringing out six hundred bucks.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: So now I'm pocketing my four d bucks. Right. So
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: now if you have three guides out working in a day,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: now you're taking your fo for guys. Now you got
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: twelve bucks a day. So that works, But then you've
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: got to be licensed, you gotta be sure, you've got
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: to still be dealing with the emails of my flight
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: and my listen. It just was really time consuming. So
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: now I'm at a stage where I'm still super involved
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: in my in my bookings like you reach out to
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: me and I'm going to get you set up, no
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: question with the fishery that. So you're like a travel
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: agent kind of sort of. Yeah, I guess technically these
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: days I probably am because I no longer do the invoicing.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: I no longer do to helping with the flights. But
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I'm there to help you through your entire trip. But
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm now working no hell no, I would never
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: do that to myself ever, that's a total money dump.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: So but I work with the lodge and make sure
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: that everybody is happy. So really the client has twenty
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: four hour support between me and the lodge, whereas for
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: a long time it was just me and there's just
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of pressure because I travel right for I'm
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: always gone. So now it's me and the lodge and
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: and it's just easier for me to say, listen, guys,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: I'll just take I'll just take a cut on the client,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: and then if they just keep coming back, I don't
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: even need to know about I'm always here if they
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: need me. But yeah, I guess technically nowadays I am
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: a booking agent. So some dude goes online, yeah, and
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: he's like, man, The thing I really want to do
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: is go to BC and fish Steelhead. Yeah, And he
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: types in BC Stalhead Fishing and he's dicking around and
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: pretty soon he sees what that would prompt him to
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: call you. Well, a lot of people who are my
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: people who are calling me have heard of me, and
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: they're not finding me on Google anymore, and they think
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: you not No. No, I think it's pretty clear nowadays,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: and I'm no longer God what do they call you for? April.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: We understand that you are from BC, and we know
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: that you're honest and you'll tell us where we should go,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: and I stay true to that. So they're using you
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: to keep from getting screwed. And then they don't care
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: if I take because it doesn't the commission I get
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: doesn't come out of their pocket. It doesn't there's no
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: price difference for them. But they know I'm going to
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: do my best to make sure that they're totally set up.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: And the lodge I I honestly were mostly work with
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: one lodge on the Skina now because they take such
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: good care. I mean, I've never had an unhappy client
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: leave this lodge and they have no problem paying me
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: my percent off the top because they're just happy to
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: have this awesome clientele. So it really is a win
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: win for every back, understand. Yeah, And it's just starting
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: off like ground zero. And and you've developed reputation of
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: putting them into a quality trip and if you put
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: your your if you approve with your stamp of approval
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: on a thing, Yeah, that's and and the other thing
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: you need to remember is I'm there right Like I'm
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: in northern BC. So I'm gonna come by and be like, hey,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: you know, hey Bob, how's it going? Has everything doing?
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: And my best friend guides out of this lodge and
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: the guy who owns it as one of my good buddies,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Like they really are walking into a family environment like something.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: You need to realize that I I guided five years
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: on the Dean River and which is a really famous
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: driver in BC, and I basically subcontracted out the lodge.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: It was it was a family environment, like you came
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: when you came, you were guided by me, but you
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: were coming because obviously the fishery is incredible. But it
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: was myself, my brother in law, my sister and a cook.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Like it was a really small intimate operation. And I
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: still take pride in that. Like if you come to
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: fish with U SNBC at the lodge I work with,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: which is called Ski this Spay, it's still the same thing.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: I'm there, Brian who owns the places. They're my best
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: friends there. It's still this real intimate venue and nobody
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: there's no bullshit like I'll never ever ever try to
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: take your money just to get you into lodge. Ever,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: if it's not your best interest, I will. I'll take
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: you straight up, don't come. Is this lodge on the
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: road system or it's on the river. It's on the
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: road system on on the river. Yeah. Yeah. And then
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: now that you are in Australia, you're still doing that. Yeah.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Well I'm only in Australia in the winter. It was
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: your old man come here with you when you're here.
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: He comes here for a four to six weeks when
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: I'm here for money and works there. Yeah. Yeah. I
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: don't know what's gonna happen with the baby. Things are
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: going to change. But I bought the property. But before
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I met Charles, I was really I was established and
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: had my own had my property and my dream. So
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: I bought twenty acres on the Bulkley and it was
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: just bare land, and my dream was to build it
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: up from scratch and just have it be like my
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: I just kind of wanted to live off land and
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: and just I've got this beauty, a full riverfront property
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: and full fish and there's a bunch of grouse on
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: the property. And I mean it's not a huge property,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: but my neighbors all in like six hundred acres. I
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: mean there's just lots of landing. You don't mean that
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: you're gonna build a lodge, No, No, I was gonna
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: build my little cabin out of my poplars on the
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: on the property. I quickly learned that that was a
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: good work. So first year before I met Charles, I
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: lived up there in a trailer, and then I met
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: him and I built a wall tent with we we
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: put up a wall tent, and then the next year
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: we're able to stay in the wall tent and was
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: able to insulate at the wall tent. And then it
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: came down in a nice storm, which is to be expected.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: That's fine. And then this last year I spent a
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: bunch of time with with buddies, building up all four
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: walls and a roof and making it into like a
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: little shack and right now where I was yesterday, where
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: I am at this time of my year, is up
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: there right now doing all the rest of all my
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: maintenance and just getting ready for the season. Yeah, and
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: he'll come in. He comes in September, so he'll be
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: in a little later. He comes in for the he
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: comes in for the fishing, and I go in for
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the maintenance. Yeah. But that's cool because he doesn't mean
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: it is, you know, the stuff in Australia. So he's
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: got his life. I've got my fishing business. No, no, no, no, no, no.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: We went on a fishing trip, but he's not in
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: the business now. Yeah, been there, done that, Steve. Come on,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: I want to know how you insulated the wall to Yeah,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: great questions. So with the floor and then I had panels.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: So what I did was I put in like a
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: like a structure rights on beams and then I had
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: to put that common bats. Do you guys call them bats?
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Like the foam foam inslation role you put in between
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: huge huge slots that you just cut up. Um yeah, no, no,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: that those are the bats in the wall. Sorry. The
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: card the foam, the sheets, the sheets, Yes, you put
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: those on the floor, and then we put lamb in
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: on top, and then we put bats ones that you
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: don't want to touch with your hands because they, yeah,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: in the walls. So I had like a four foot
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: structure all the way around of these um like a
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: like would what's that thin wood? No, no, this stuff, yeah,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: like a veneer all the way around it, and then
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: was able to inslave. But we couldn't inslate up top
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: obviously because the wall tan was fifty So we did
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: lose heat that way of putting a wood stove, and
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: that was able to maintain some temperature. But now and
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: then you know, when it came down, we obviously rebuilt
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: and put in baths all the way along and put
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: inslation into the roof and so now we've got it's
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: actually warm. But it worked, It did work. We definitely
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: were able to keep some heating, but we did these
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: lose heat through the top of the wall tan. Yeah,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: it was a badass pent I wish Yeah the river again,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: the Bulkley, there's no fish in it. There's no fish, Yeah,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: there's fish. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want people flocking up there.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: It's busy. It's busy these days, So I literally I fished.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: I wake up. I fished because my spots right between
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: there's like a launch up here and then there's a
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: takeout point there. So the only way to get to
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: my place, because if if you're coming in a jet boat,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I can hear you, so I'm going to beat you
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: to the river. And then if you're coming down in
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: a in a raft, it takes you quite some time
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: to get to our Oh yeah. So I usually go
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: out of fish first sick in the morning, in the
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: morning for the first after totally, and then when I
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: do see the first drafter, I usually just very quietly
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: disappear so that I'm not ruining their day and they
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: still feel like they have fresh water. And then that's
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: when I actually go back to my life. So I'm
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: constantly fallen trees, bucking trees, splint trees, and then that's
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: what Remember I spoke to you last time when I
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: was here, and I was talking about all this grouse
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: hunting I'm doing. So I spent most of my day
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: just grouse hunting, and then come back to all my chores,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: pump water, do all that stuff, and then fish in
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: the evening and then cook and do it all again
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: the next day and you're talking just fishing for steelhead. Yeah. Yeah,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Well I was there just like this last couple of weeks.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: I was there fishing for chinook, like I say, with spoons,
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: and then when I go back up, um, I'll be
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: fishing for coho. Now, Matt, have you guided? Did you
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: ever guide bass? No? I never get it bass, just salmon.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: If I remember right, you got interest in ternament bass fishing. Um,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: because we're working in a sport good store. I got
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: interested in tournament bass fishing and then ended up working
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: in a sporting good store because of that. So I
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: fell in love with fishing at a very young age,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: like three, kind of the same and started with warm
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: water fish, catching bluegillo, one corn under my friend's dog,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: and then vividly Roman. I think any hardcore fish junkie
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: remembers the first fish that started their obsession. I caught
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: a fish in the rainbow trout and metolius on this
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: overhanging undercut bank ledge. I was standing on incredible fish.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: I still have a picture of it to this day.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: This was a long time ago. We kept that fish,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: but uh no, then through that through the years, I
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: ended up getting into bass fishing lot just because I
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: like the approach. I like sort of patterning bass because
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: their resident fish. It's sort of the same way you
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: pattern trout as opposed to fish that my great salmon
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: steelhead it's like to have over. Yeah, And I just
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: think that it's interesting a fish that lives in that
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: body of water, the way that things change for them
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: even throughout the day. And bass can be unpredictable, they
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: can also be predictable. But anyhow, so I I got
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: really into bass fishing. And then one day I was
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: down on the river fishing and my buddy brought this
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: other guy who turns out fish terms. He's older than us.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: But I didn't even really I had never even thought
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: about tournament fishing. But he started talking to me a
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: little bit about it, and it got me interested in it,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: and so I started talking no because I thought it
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: was cool. Like we had a little We decided to
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: put a little side bet down that day, and I
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: beat that guy. Now that I was better than him.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: I just caught more fish than him that day, and
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was cool that you could be
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: competitive at fishing. I never thought about fishing against somebody,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: and I thought about fishing against yourself and not against
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: somebody else. And so then I started going into the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: sporting goods stores and talking to the guys that worked
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: there about bass fishing. And I met the guy ended
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: up becoming my mentor, a guy named Gary Yxley and
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: and and he ended up he was a fishing store manager.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: And then when he moved from a store Fisherman's Marine,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: which is in the city I live, into Sportsman's Warehouse.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: I then he he asked me to come work for him.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: I was guiding in Alaska in the summers and in
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: college at that point in time, and he said, you know,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: He's like, well, come work for me. You can have
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: the summers off to guy, And that's okay. I'll come
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: work at the sporting good store. And that's actually I
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: met my wife Lacey. Yeah. I was gonna tell April
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit about you meet her to get her
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: opinion on it. The overview provided at Sports's Warehouse, oh
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: the oh that creeper status going. I'll look up there
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: and nexture there's no employees he caught wind of. He
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: caught windows a new woman working at the place. But
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: I saw, I gotta if you're gonna going to dress
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna get dragged into this. I gotta tell the story.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: It will be a very honest representation. I promise my
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: own version, kind mostly in my head. Okay, I was
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: living I was living with with my friend Dylan at
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: the time, and he'd come into he'd come into Sportsman's
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: he used to go at all the time, like everybody
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: would get their fishing gear. And I was working in
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: the fishing department, and and he comes home one night
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: and he's like, who is that? Who's the girl? Who
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: is that redheaded girl that works at the front of
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: the store, And like, what, I just come back from
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: fishing in Alaska. She had just gotten a job there
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: while I was gone, And I wasn't that familiar. But honestly,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: I hadn't. I don't know. I was paying a whole
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: lot of attention. He was like, who is that right
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: at of girl? Yeah, late, like an only girl. I
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: can think it was Lacey, And I just hadn't really
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: hadn't clicked before. I'm like, okay, maybe I should like
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: check check out Lacey and so in sports and warehouse. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: I've seen her before. I just hadn't. I don't know that.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I was like really out crawl and looking for out
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: of a season in Alaska, and you really that's like
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: getting out of jail. Every time I got out of
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: a guiding season. When I was single, I was like
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: out of jail. Okay, I was enjoying my life as
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: a as a bachelor man. No, but I was in college.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: I was like, so sports is where I was of
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: you ever been in one? They're all the same, and
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: they have this cat walk around the upstairs and that's
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: where they keep all the storage. And so I like,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I went up to the cat walk and I went
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: up to like you can see over a customer service
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: in the front desk, and I was like looking down there,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: laces down there. I just they're staring and I was like,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, lazy is like I need to go
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: talk to lazy. And just sort of like triggered something.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: So it just says to me, why did you have
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: to be where nobody else could see you? What were
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: you doing up there? Ladies go to the front of
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: the store. I just that was good point. I didn't
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: even think about that. Oh yeah, no, I'm just up
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: here because I want to see if there any new
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: kind of candy bars, candy bars are you playing? It's
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: over and that's over in the clothing department, I worked
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: way over and fishing, so I would have been it
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been wre like, what are you doing out here? Okay,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: so you're blocked by nothing? What if she looked up?
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: What if you looked up? Uh? Yeah, act like but
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: I like to think that. I like to think that
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Lacey kind of like I thought I was cute too,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: So maybe she would have been like creepy guy. Did
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: you later say to her, like when you asked her out,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: did you say, you know I've been up in the catwalk,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I'm looking down years before I let on about that.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: She actually started coming back and talking. I'm I'm a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: total when it comes to talking to girls. She she
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: came hard, I'm not good at it. She she came back,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: you need to talk to you more out very well,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: so she she she actually came back and started talking
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: to me in fishing. So she's is a lot more.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: She's a lot braver than I am. Was she Uh So,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: now that she knows and the snickers is under, is
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: she now that she knows? When she found out about that,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: she wasn't troubled by that it was too late at
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: that point. No, I don't think she was troubled by that. Yeah,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: it was probably too late now, and I don't honestly
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: was very innocent. It would have been cute because after
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: you know, he's not crazy. But like, there's always a
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: moment in the first year when we're dating you guys
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: were like, is he crazy? Is it there? Right? And
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: and then you're like, and then you reach that moment
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: where you're like, now I can tell her that I
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: really am crazy, and she won't leave me exactly, and
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: then you both realize how crazy you are. But I
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: think that you really are the main thing you're doing. Like,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: once you get to a point where you want, once
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: you get to the point where you're you're open to
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: the idea of settling down. I think when you're dating,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: all you're all you're really trying to do is suss
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: out the craziness. If you got half a brain, that's
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: what you're trying to do. It's like dating is saying, like,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to determine because obviously the fact that I'm
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: here and you're here, I'm obviously I'm attracted to you, right, Like,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: all that sets the place now I just need to
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: find out whether you're insane or not. I think some
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: people miss that part and they wind up married to
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: insane people. It does happen, It really does happen. Yeah,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: but I think like a reasonable approach, like a reason
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: way to describe the process is to be like, I'm
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: finding out how livable you are, right, you know, because
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: I'm attracted to you like I am, because I wouldn't
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: have said yes, I wouldn't have asked you out. So
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: the second part is, you know, how likable are you?
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: How I mean, how crazy you are falls under that.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: How likable you are, how much you can handle that person,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: how much you want to be away from them, all
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: that stuff. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, we are totally assessing
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: other crazy and uh and you had like you so
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: you're saying you had like a love at first sight moment. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: actually I really did honestly have like in the movies
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: love at first sight moment. But there's still you're still
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: always trying to be on best behavior in the first year,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: and you're still always wondering. You'll see something and you'd
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: be like, is that, like is that is that a
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: crazy tendency that he has? Or is that just is
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: that a flaw? Can I handled that flaw? Can I
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: handle that flaw forever? It's a flaw if he doesn't
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: fix it because he's Charles is forty five years old. Like,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: let's get real, I'm not fixing the guy. So so
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: he's eleven years older. So for me it was like, Okay,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: that's who he is. Am I cool with that? Yeah? Yeah,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: I'm cool with that. You don't call you don't call
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: him Chuck. No, he's no, he's like, he's Charles, Yeah, Chiles.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: He's an ausy. So it's no hard no hard hours, Charles.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't hard for you just to give up
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: on just to move to Australia. No, because when I
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: met him, I always my whole plan has always been
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: I was when to live somewhere warm in the winter,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: because yeah, because I I guys, well where against he's
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: rather he's got now he's got that ausy accident. Every
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: time he said what him is it water? I was like, oh,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: you're mine, all mine? But yeah, know, so what happened
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: was I was always I was always traveling in my
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: off season, and I only fish for winter steel Head.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: I mean I fished for winter steel. It when I
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: was a crazy obsessed had to be fishing every single
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: day of the week angler and then for so long
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: it became work. So it just I kind of lost
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: the passion for winter steel. And I've never lost fashion
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: for summer steel had but winter steel it was hard.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: I had a really bad car accident, I've had to
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: rebuilt foot and it just started to get really hard
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: out in the in the cold water, in the cold weather.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: And so I started doing a lot of I do
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of permit fishing and a lot of saltwater fishing. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: tons of flats fishing. And so I've been spending all
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: of my May, June July doing as much of that
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: as possible, well May in June, some April if I
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: could take the time off. And I started to look
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: for places to purchase. So I was either going to
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: buy in the Keys or in Rotan, and I found
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: this piece of property and a guide down there. No, no, no,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: I've always known I was not going to guide for
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: that long. Actually as a recreational prop I was just
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: gonna live and disappear. That was always the plan. And
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: so when I met Charles, it was like well, Australia
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: just a lot longer plane ride. And then of course
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: there's permit. No, there's tons of permit. Sure it is
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: good for permit. We don't talk about going for permit.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: People don't know anything about Australian fishing. Yeah, the Indo
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Pacific permit, it's a little different, but they're actually a
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: better looking fishing. Yeah. You never hear someone say I'm
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: going to Australia for permit. Good, let's keep it that way,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Let's keep it, keep it quiet. But you know, there's
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: fantastic permit fishing in Australia. And marlin, I mean, marlin
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: is like my big, huge obsession these days, marlin fishing.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: You know what, man rode, Okay, check this out. Oh
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: I can't wait. See what do you? I was just
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: down and I was down in down in Mexico on
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: the Pacific coast near Cellulida, fishing with my family and
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: we're out fishing gear conventional with bait and it was
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: a fly guy okay, okay, but we we use bait
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: though to get the fish up. Pathetic. He's got two
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: eyes on the boat. Okay. They obviously went out with
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: the cast net for like three days and caught enough.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: And I can't imagine how much bait they had on
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: this boat. Guys whose job it is, they're called shovel
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: live bait overboard. No, he's chumming while this guy flails
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: the water and they are raining, I mean raining scoops
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: of live bait into the water. Well, this guy just
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: beats the water, beats the water, beats the water. Seagulls
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: coming down to eat this bait. They're thrown out fish.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: You're all over the place. And eventually, of course, of
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: course he like catches one on a fly. Wait wait wait, wait,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: but pull but that is like is that a Mexican thing?
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: Because that is not how people fly fish from marlin?
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying how we do it as any better.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: How do you draw it up? I'm not saying it's
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: any better. No, No, the rooster fish, Oh oh that's why.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: Look now, I'm not saying what we don't say, but
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: what we do made me worse. And I'm just gonna
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: go ahead and put it out there out because you
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: put a plug in front of it on the on
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: geary and then you reel it up. Eventually plaster fly
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: down in front of it, and I guess it's worse
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: because we spend a ton of gas trolling. It's my
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: number one guilty, conscious conscience thing that I do is
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: trolling from Marlin because I know because you're using gear. Yeah,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: you're using gear. It's not the gear. I don't mind
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: the gear. I mind. Yeah. And so the whole point
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: that is to create this disturbance and whitewash to make
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: it look like you're a big school of tuna, and
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: then your your lure or you're dragged sardie or whatever
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: it is that we're flaming mackerel, whatever it is that
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: you've got in the back is looking like a trailing,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: you know, behind fish. And then of course it comes up.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: Everyone freaks out, The bills up and it's all the
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: fish is all for essent, and it's coming in, and
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: you've got a deckie here, and then you got your
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: captain up there, and it's just a total cluster. And
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: so he's reeling in the right as he's about to
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: yank the bait out of the way. You know, you
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: go yep, yep, you communicate, he pulls it out, you
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: cast it in, and then this fish on anyone who
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: catches at bullshit started to get to you, not necessarily
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: if you're honest about it. So the reality is anyone
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: who's caught a marlin who stands there in a photo
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: and says, this is my marlin. No, it takes four.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: It depends. Like when Charles and I go out on
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: our own, is the two of us. So what we've
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: got to got our boat, We troll in our time
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: in our little boat. Okay, he's got the gear rod
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: or me, whoever's on drawer, whoever's on you know, up
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: to cast. So he's on the gear road or on
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: the do what do we want to call on this
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: um teaser based he's on our teaser bait. Okay, and
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: I've got the daisy chain out So he's got the
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: teaser here. I've got the daisy chain out here on
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: this side. What's the daisy chain. It's like it's a
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: series of squid. I've got it roped off and tied
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: onto the clearing. So it comes up. Yeah, it's like
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: it's like a it's like a shorter teaser. Sure if
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: you will write, so neither have hooks. So the fish
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: comes up, he reels in. This is what I love doing.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: But just when it's just me and Charles. He is
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: trying to reel the teaser bait in. I'm now doing
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: the crazy daisy chain, really really trying to get in.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: It's only maybe the daisy chain itself is probably only
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: six feet and it's only put back maybe you know,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: eight ft, not very far. So I gotta get the
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: daisy chain in the boat. He's got to get that in,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: and you know, the teaser bait in. He's gotta go yep,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: I gotta go yep. I gotta get my flyer on.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: I gotta make the cast and land it in front
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: of the fish. It's still a team effort. It is
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: almost always a team effort. But you're so in love
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: with the idea. You're someone love with the idea of
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: being able to say that it was a fly rod
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: not necessarily that you're going like stop, You're preventing the
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: fish from getting hooked in all these ways, so at
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: the last minute you can get hooked on a fly
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: like I called it, on a fly not necessarily. It's
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: a totally different fight because I've caught him on gear.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: I've caught Marlon on gear. They're great, super fun. How's
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: it's not like you're you're not like doing some standing
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: on a rock doing like the shadow cast. There's no
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: such that's what I'm saying. You're flopping this thing down.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: How's it because the reel is a little bit different. No,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: it depends on how you want to pitch it. I mean,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: if you're going around and you're promoting yourself all over
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: the place saying, look at what I caught on a
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: floor rod, then that's one thing. But the reality is
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: it's just an entirely different fight. Like for me, my
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: real just to have it, I don't know. I mean,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: I guess that's a really good point, and it's a
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: really good argument. This is bullshit. Well, no, turning on
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: how you want to look at it's it's no, it's
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: not just bullshit. It depends on what's a lion hunter.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: He's a houndsman when he gets the guy, when he
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: takes a guy out and they tree a line. Yeah,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: And a bow hunter is like, I'm gonna shoot in
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: my boat. Well he doesn't like, he's like, okay, shoot
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: the guy shoots at the boys like I killed a
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: line with my book, you killed a lie with hounds. Yeah,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: but you're talking about the bodn't have anything to do
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: with this. Yeah, but that's so for me, it's a
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: challenge thing I cannot so the biggest marlin I could
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: land if I was lucky on a fly rod. If
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: I was lucky, it would be an If I was lucky,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: you just immediately you just you disadvantage yourself. It's just harder.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: So it's that the it's you're like, Okay, I'm gonna
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: do all this ship like a conventional gear and spinning
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: rods and this and that and live baby. Just you
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: know what, at the last second, I am gonna I'm
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: gonna limp dick myself and throw out a fly pole. Totally.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: That's exactly like because maybe you'll break off. Well, it's
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: more than that. I don't know. It just depends on
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: what your challenge is, like, what do you set out
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: to do, and what's your motient. I don't know what
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: everyone's motivate is. Mine is not to post to social
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: media photo. It's just I have this thing in my
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: head that it would be really cool to catch one
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: on the fly. I just wanted. I just wanted for myself.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: I just want to catch it on the fly by
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: by any means, by any means, as long as it
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: ends up with a fly. If you wanted to know,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: if you wanted to have a better argument, if you
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: wanted a better argument, because there's a better argument. Yeah,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: there's a better argument than what you're giving me. You
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: do because that's you just limp picked yourself because you've
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: got nothing. Here's the thing. A better argument would be that,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: all right, let's talk if a bullshit. So a better
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: argument would be, what do you think about this? If
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: you troll your fly behind the boat and the boat
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: is running, so you're trolling and you hook a marlin
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: on right, it doesn't count. But let me finish it.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: But if you I want to do it proper. Now
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: you can see me and no one else can see
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: my hands. But the quotations. If you want to properly,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: you have to shut the boat. You have to take
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: the boat out of gear and then make the cast
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: so that technically you're not trolling, and only then is
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: accounted as a fly cop fish. That's a better argument.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: That is a better argument. What happens if you make
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: how did you make a bad cast? Will it not
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: take the fly? No? I still take the fly just
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: because that because that would have solved it all together.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: You had to like put it right on the spot. Yeah.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: I g a International game Fish Association, nationally international. So
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: they're like, they're saying that, uh, if you're trolling like
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: it's not, that's not that does not on his fly.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Both got to be out of gear. Now when we
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: go out, we do take the boat out of gear
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: because honestly, inertia well, yeah, of course it does. Check
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: this out. Duck hunting, you got all momentum from that
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: engine needs to cease before you can shoot. You should.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: I agree. That's why I'm giving the argument you're breaking
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: the law. I'm giving you the better argument because I agree.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: I agree. Now, there is this thing, Steve, that you
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: can do. It's called free casting. So sometimes you see
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Marlin just bake like sun baking there, just hanging out.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: Bring up. That's so cool. That's like my dream. I
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: would totally be no guy that used to harpoon him
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: like that. When he was a kid, Let's check this out.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: They were so they were a commercial fishing family. He's old.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: But when he was a kid, his mother was a pilot.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: His mother would go scout for swordfish, basking swordfish. Yeah,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: put the coordinates in a canister or you know, a
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: bearing in a distance and coordinates and the canister and
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: drop it out of her plane. Her father would get
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: it and they would move up, and they had a
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: harpooner on the bottle of the boat and they would
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: move up in harpoon basking sword fish. Oh my goodness,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: that's unbelievable for commercial like commercial sale. So I would
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: say if some dude went out and found himself a
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: genuine bit ball in his boat, kayak, whatever the hell
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: he's in, found himself a genuine bitball, stalked in there,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: stripped the flying through there and tied into a Marlin,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: I would be like, that's something bitch called marline fly.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: I'll give you that. There is no other way to
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: discuss this. Yeah, no, it's tough one. I've only been
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: doing it. I mean, you and I can have an
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: argument with you about steelhead forever, and I know I'll
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: win when it comes to steel because I've been doing it.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know but with Marlon though, I've only been
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: doing it for four years, so I'm constant, and I
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: could never land any one on the fly. I really
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: don't know shit about it, but I know that it
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: fascinates me. I just get busted off. Everything, everything that
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: can go wrong goes wrong. So I'm actually I'm gonna
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: go next week because I'm just determined before this baby
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: comes to get a marlin to the boat or to hand,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: I just so badly want to get when it's just
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: like it's a competition. I said it for myself. I'm
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: not competitive with anyone else, and it's certainly not for
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: any bragging rights like you can't lift the fish out
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: to get photos or anything. Just for myself, I just
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: want to know that. I just want to know I've
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: done it. It kind of like here's the thing, and
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: and and I used to think this is gonna sound
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: horrible because and I used to look at I used
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: to look at bass fishing a little bit like this too.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: That it is people taking elements of golf, which I detest,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: and introducing golf elements into fishing. Do explain what's your
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: reasoning behind them? Just like um taking all the reality
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: and the blood. Once you remove the reality and the blood,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: I just feel it winds up. But it is reality
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: and blood, Like how can you remove reality and blood?
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: That's like saying, how do you remove reality and blood?
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: From hunting, like become a photographer. Well you can't, right,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: protects some of the sanctity of hunting. Right, there's people
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: to get around because people that shoot stuff and then
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: don't take care of it, or shoot stuff and whatever.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's like ways of um of breaking the chain,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: right that leads from the action, which is like it's food.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: These are old food acquisition technologies, okay, like ways of
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: acquiring food. Now we've stripped out all kinds of ship
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: and some might argue we've stripped out the necessity. Right
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: if I don't hunt fish like I like to eat
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of wild game. If I didn't hunt fish,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: I'm sure ship not gonna starve. I'd eat great. Okay,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: So the necessity is gone. And some people would look
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: and say, dude, the necessity is gone. You've stripped the
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: reality away. It's nothing now, it's just a shadow. It's
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: just a game you play now, because the reality is gone.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: And I would look in and I could explain that
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: I do feel that the reality is still there, okay,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: because this is a choice that I'm like, this is
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: a choice I make about how I live and how
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: I eat. But I'm open to the idea. So I
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: might present that and I think that once you get
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: but but there's other steps, like we all sort of
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: find our own way, we all sort of recognize our
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: own methods in life as being like kind of perfect right,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: and everyone else is a deviation from that. But I
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: would look and say, like some things, when you strip
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: more of it away, it's just you're playing golf with
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: living golf balls. Yeah, i'll give you that with Marlon fishing.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: I won't give you with all fly fishing, or I'll
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: give you that with Marlin because I know that for
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: me when I was first getting into it and learning
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: about it, there's a whole lot of weight what like
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: why how does that make sense? Or how does that
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: make sense? I don't get it. You know, there are
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of things that didn't that still don't make
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: sense to me. Same with the i if aithing. You
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: know they want a fish and twenty pound later and
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: my big thing, yeah, thirty pound, And my big thing
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: is aren't you playing with fish longer? And that's a
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: whole different argument, And that's a whole different guest because
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not an id F a player. But yeah, I'll
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: give you that with Marlin fishing. It is a game. Yeah,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of things. Yeah, yeah, I guess so.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, but I don't feel guilty about it because
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: the marlin haven't been in my four years anyway. There's
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: been no hurt. Marlin will tell you that. But there's
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: been a whole lot of hurt to me, but not
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: to the marlin. I haven't heard of Marlin yet, kicking
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: my ass? Are you kidding me? Owned? I'm getting owned.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: Do you fish with twenty or thirty pound? I have
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: fished with thirty and forty? Yeah, yeah, I've never actually
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: hooked up on thirty. I hooked up on forty, saying
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: to win, you gotta be down to in the if
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: you I don't do it. I don't know, yes, but
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: I have no interest in it. I think that's strange
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: that they would encourage stressing fishing. I totally agree. But
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: if you talk to and actually this is an interesting point,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: and I'm not again, I'm not the one to speak
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: to you. I've got a guess lined up on my
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: show who is an id F, a record holder, and
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: he is like frothing at the bit to get on
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: the show to explain his point. And he thinks he
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: has a very valid point. I'm interested in hearing it
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: because he's adamant that a skilled angler can land that
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: fish on twenty pound in the same amount of time
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: as a non skilled angler on hunter pound. Yeah, that's
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: his that's what about a skilled angler on hundred pound?
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: His things. It doesn't matter because you're using the drag
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: of the water, right. Yeah, you can say, like a
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: skilled hunter is going to kill a deer the twenty
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: two more effectively than a real ship hunter with a
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: two seventy. Okay, see, so it goes everyone should use.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: That's like a very cock eyed logic. Yeah, you can
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: lay that out, you can you explain that to your guests.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know anything about guns, but I will do
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: my best. Um. But in bass, in the bass fishing,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: you guys don't um the fight of the fish isn't
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: really an issue. How so that is how you eliminate,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: Like you will get them in easier, the faster you
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: get them into the boat. Typically, Yes, So you know,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: like if you're flipping, if you're flipping pads with a jig,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: you'll tie sometimes eight pound, so flip so flipping flipping
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: lily pads, flipping as a technique where you you basically
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: you don't even cast. You you just have line hanging
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: out the end of your rod and you grab in
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: between your first guide and your reel and you pull
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: that line out and that brings the bait up out
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: of the water and then you swing it out and
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: then you let the line go and then it goes
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: a little farther. It just is an easy way to
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: pick your bait up sticking in a hole. Pick it
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: up sticking in a hole. You know what we used
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: to call that, used to steel head like that what
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: like well be like chucking chucking, Okay, chucking. Yeah, like
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: you're like chucking some of you say chucking and ducking
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: when you had lead on the line. Yeah, you literally
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: did check it. B So so we'll run. We'll run
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: eight or fish and frogs over lily pads where the
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: bass company and pull you down into a big map
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: of grass. You'll run eighty pound braid direct to your
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: frog and us and an eight to one retrieve reel
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: meat like total meat stick like it just basically like
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: like a broomstick, and as soon as they bite, you
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: just real as fast as you can and that you
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: basically are skipping the fish almost across the water, so
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: they don't even have a chance to really know what
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: hit him. They're like, just fly inside. It doesn't It
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: does not always work like that. A lot of times
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: they'll pull you down and you get host Anyways, there
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: fass cage fish. They live in places around a lot
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: of cover. They hang you up. They're not big ones
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: are not easy to land. And I can't even argue
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: because he's getting the fish in as fast as possible,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: so there's no argument they're My only argument is that
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: the purpose of it is that you're doing it to
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: catch as many as possible. But because it's bass, I
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: really don't care because they're not feeling not indigenous. But
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: it's more it's not about getting them in. You want
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: to get them in the best way you can, and
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: it depends on what you're using to catch those fishes.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: Like in like Washington, the lake was really clear, so
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: we were having to use drop shot for the most
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: part with very light leader and pretty light rods, which
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: means you can't horse on them too much. You want
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: to bring him as fast you can, but we're in
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: open water and so a lot of times you just
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: have to play them until you get him in the boat.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: If we were running eighty pound braid and they were biting, yeah,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: we would have just sucked him right up. But what's
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: what's the goal that is to catch as many as
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: possible in the tournament. The goal in a tournament is
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: to catch the biggest five fish you can. So you
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: throw your smallest one back put to put one, whatever
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: is bigger than that until you have a bag of
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: five fish that's as big as possible. I get it.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: You know why he was telling me the bass guys
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: don't use tell us again why bass guys won't use
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: live bait? I actually didn't know this. Okay, it works
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: too good. My opinion is that bass guys don't use
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: live bait. Yes one because if you want to know
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: really why I think bass guys don't use live baitas
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: because it's from a marketing perspective, and it's because there's
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: an entire industry established around using plastic and artificial lures.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: That's and again the aspirational element of tournaments. Tournaments drive
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: the culture and bass. It's the same reason they got
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: a both that goes eighty miles an hour, and you know,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: like everything else is like, because the tournament anglers use
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: these things and that drives the market, and the people
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: sponsoring the tournament anglers are all these companies that make
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: money by selling baits. And now we've just circled all
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: of it back to now you understand why my head
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: is where at. I just I just can't all of it.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: I just can't. It's just too much. Yeah, I hate
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: I really hate it. It really bothers me. But I
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: don't think that that's any different. So because that drove
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: me to the state that I'm in where that's the
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: way I like to fish for bass. I could use
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: worms and eighty pound braid and catch bass, but I don't,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: and it's more difficult to catch them on wait on
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: wait less san goes or whatever you might want to
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: you and target them in that way. It's harder to do.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: That's no different than what you're doing fly fishing, and
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: the biggest wanting to make it really hard. Well, I
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: sound like the biggest hypocrite in the world because listen
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: to the fly fisherman saying I mean basically, I just
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: you know, calling myself out for sure, but just when
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: you hear yourself say it, like, you know why we
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: don't fish. I don't know. Did you ever do television?
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: Did you television? No? No? Like like actually, like, what
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: do you mean do tell on television? Television? Yeah? I
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: really want you to plug stuff. And today I'm using bass.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: But did you did you do a show about bass fishing?
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: Now salmon fishing? Yeah? Understand? Now why um? Why is it?
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Why has bass fishing? How come there's not another kind
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: of fish? If people want to go catching, you win
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars for catching it. Yeah, redfish, giant marlin,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: You're going way more money in a marlin. You can
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: win a million dollars in a mark in the in
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: a billfish tournament. Yeah. Used to like to those tournaments. Okay,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: that's that's the Calcutta. Yeah. So bass fishing hasn't like
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: cornered the tournament market. The reason bass fishing is cornered
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: the tournament market here is because bass room forty nine states.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: They're very accessible and everybody can fish for bass, and
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: so it's a very relatable type of fishing. Everybody can
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: fish bass, super approachable. That's why it is. It's like
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: it's like a it's a blue collar fishing. It's like basketball.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: And soccer. Yeah, it's it's the soccer of fishing. Yeah, okay,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: that's right. Do you know what's funny? When I was
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: trying to get my visa to work in the States,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: because there was a time when I wanted it, they
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: wouldn't recognize me as professional angler unless I had a
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: certain amount of like competitive winds and my belt or whatever.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: And I had I had explained, yeah, that with my career,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: that you know, my reputation doesn't based on these competitions
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: that bass anglers have, and they could not wrap their
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: heads around. You could have come down, you could. We
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: could have got some some wins, some second place finishes
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: and club tournaments eight bucks. It would have been great.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: But Matt, you want some person Yeah, yeah, yeah, all time.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: We're definitely in the in the red, but yeah, we
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: want some money. I've gotten some checks north of a
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars. It definitely doesn't cover the costs to tackle
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: and rods and everything else for this. So tournaments there
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: now anymore. It's like you don't even get trophies or
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of times you don't get plaques. I would
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: rather have a plaque than a check. It's it's a
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: bummer to me that I don't get like a little
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: trophy or something when we win. It's yeah, well the
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: check just they're insignificant. Be one thing. If I was
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: making big money, probably wouldn't care about the trophy. But
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: the two you spend three d fifty dollars in gas
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: and whatever else to go to tournament went two hundred
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: and fifty bucks if you win, like, give me a plaque.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: When when I was in tenth grade, Uh, in tenth
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: grade English, you had to write a paper. You had
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: to like write a comparison contrast paper. You guys know
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: what those are. I remember I did mine on Herman
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: Melville maybe Melville Hawthorne. Okay, my comparison contrast paper. In
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: my tenth grade English teacher Mr Heaton sent it into
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: an essay contest, the Ruth V. Robinson Essay in the
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: Humanities contest Um. Again, he asked me if he could
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: send it in and I said no, And uh, I
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: don't know why, but he sent it in and I
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: got second place, first runner up, which I thought I
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: meant one, but then someone clarified the first runner up
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: is just the way of screwing with you, and you're
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: like second place. First place gotta check cash. Okay, they
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: got like five bucks. Second place got a thesaurus. And
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: I was devastated because I went to the awards ceremony
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: thinking that there would be money exchanging hands. Did you
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: know when you went to the awards ceremony that you
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: were not knew that by then I had cleared up
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: that in fact had not one. Did you look up
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: how many ways you could stay disappointed? Yeah? So that's
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: my next paper, the true meaning of this. Yeah. So,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: like I go down there expecting to get money, but
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: didn't get money, and got up the Soros and was
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: seriously bummed because money is like I think there's a
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: validating effect of money. But the reason I bring this
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: up about like money or a trophy in this case,
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: that's the Soros. And one of the ways that like
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: a line I'll always remember is I'm in tenth grade, right,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: and I'm complaining about not getting the cash to Mr Heaton,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: and Mr Heaton said, um, he is off by by
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: a wide margin, but I was complained about only having
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: a the source He said, Okay, she got five hundred dollars,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: but there's ten thousand dollars worth of words in that book,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: which is good the value that he's undervalued and he
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: undervalued the English language, I would say, but it was
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: like it was a thing that happens. We're like money
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: is validating, and I think that you're a bigger man
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: if you're happier with the trophy than money. Depending on
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: how much money, Depending on how much money. Yeah. So
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: if I said, Matt, you can have a hundred grand
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: or a trophy, yeah, no question if you. If it
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: was if it was a thousand dollars or a trophy,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: I would take the thousand dollars. Most of the time.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: These tournaments in our bass club, well you have these
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: plaques and every time you get it for a second
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: or third place, you get like what the lake is?
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: It goes on this plaque. It's got little other little
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: placards you put onto the plaque that say like first place,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: ten amount of lake, you know, nineteen pounds, two pounds,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: and you can fill them up. But we stopped doing that,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: and and you win sixty bucks And it's not like
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: life changing money. I want the little give. The money
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: gets so little. It's about the It's really about thee
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: The competition is what it's about. And so I'd rather
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: have something to commemorate the fact that I placed well
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: in the competition than the than sixty bucks, which is
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: just a deduction from three hundred bucks that costs me
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: to get to ten Mile Lake and fish the tournament. Yeah, okay,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: so it's it's just a totally different mentality. So when
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: social media came around, just circling back to where we
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: started on this, when social media came out, it wouldn't
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: have been a big as big of a shock for
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: you because you guys are already into having that sort
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: of culture of like trying to prove yourselves and trying
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: to showcase and trying to win, and bass fishing is
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: still not really they're still so far behind the times
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: social media wise. How can you guys be behind the
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: times when you're the only ones who make money in
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: this industry? Maybe that's why why do they either like
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: either like the proof. It's all you care about is
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: the number can you catch twenty two pounds or the
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: bass and it's lake you can make. You can make
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: millions of dollars if you're really good. There's only a
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: few people to do. You can make millions of dollars
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: just on tournament earnings, fishing baths you may not may
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: or may not need. By the time you get to
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: that point. Of course, those hugely popular athletes are if
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: you want to call them athletes that you know, the
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: professional bass professional bass fisherman. They are uh, generally older
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: at that point, not always, you know, there's where you're
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: I think I'm getting to a place now though, where
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: the people are thinking of as older are now my
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: age now, Like I think it's like, oh, Danny Brower
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: and Kevin Vanda, well they're they're in their late forties
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: and up to sixty now. But now now that a
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: lot of times you'll see maybe like he wasn't so
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: old after yeah, but but maybe And this may actually
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: go back to the athleticism a bit of it at
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: least in that you have to be in good enough
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: shape to put up with the boat rocking in the
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: casting all day, and that you'll notice a lot of
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: times some of the older guys and bass fishing will
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: start to phase out and the younger anglers will start
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: to do better. When I say younger, I mean people
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: are in their it's exhausting and and to do it
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: four days straight. It's not just not just one day,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: but four days in a row sun just like four
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: long days of eighteen holes in a row. We're back
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: to the gump. But here's the thing is like, now,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: if with the car, if you have to walk the course,
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: I'll give I'll give it to you. But the thing
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: about with the social media that you're bringing up here though,
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: is this is the bass fishing. Is the meritocracy that
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: you were saying you wanted. What does meritocracy mean that
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: things are handed out based on merit? That's not Yeah,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: that's what That's exactly my point. That's the bass fish
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: like it would be that like a professional bass fisherman
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: would have nothing to gain, there's no image. It's just
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: you're not selling your ability to do That's why if
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: he does it, he wouldn't. It wouldn't be such a shock.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: That was my whole point. So if he does it
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: is not a huge shock. But in my world, in
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: our world, it was like wait, wait, wait, what's going on?
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: I mean you don't you don't. You're not supposed to
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: advertise how your day is. You're supposed to keep it
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: quiet because you don't want people to know you got fish.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: You don't want people to know who you're on the water,
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: you don't want them, Yeah, you got it. So just
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: you couldn't even like build up your actual certified credentials.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: You could, but it wasn't necessarily going to be well received.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: That's a whole another And what you would do is
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: you would try to what you should do is try
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: to build up your credentials as far as your skill.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: But then you're not supposed to try to prove it
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: with how many fish you cats. You're still taking a
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: bunch of people out onto the rivers all the time.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: It's a really interesting argument. It's just a really interesting argument.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: And it's one now that we have enough people to
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: be able to have these intelligent conversations because we've kind
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: of we've been in social media for enough years to
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: see where we are today, and that's a whole different story.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: But back then, nobody knew where it was going to go.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: So it just this whole big what if? You know,
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: this big what what if? Up in the air? What's
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: going to happen to our sport? Now that it's on
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: the internet. So do you But you don't regard yourself
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: like do you regard yourself as a social media But
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of so many social media personality. Tons of
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: people think that's what I do. It's hilarious, Well, what
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: is a social media person out? No, I'm not a
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: social media personality, not even close. But what I find
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: interesting is a lot of people will write my bio,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: people who don't fish, and they will assume that because
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: of my social media following, which actually isn't that high,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: but they'll assume that I make a living off my
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: social media and I've got to stop and go like,
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: can you actually revise that? Because I do not make
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: my money off social media. I use it as a
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: platform to get the word out of what I'm doing
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: with I don't make my living off social It's crazy.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: So if someone asked you, um, if you just we're
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: sitting next to someone on a plane, They're like, what
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: do you do for a living? I work in fly fishing?
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: And then I say, oh, I like the fly fish.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: What do you mean? Awesome? Good for you? I don't like. Honestly,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: I'm at the point now where people would be like,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: what do you do for a living? Up, I'm a writer,
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: and then I just hope to god they don't ask
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: me what I writes out. It's too hard to explain
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: what do you do in fly Oh? I like to
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: fly fish all my my brother in law likes to
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: fly fish. What do you do in fly fishing? And
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: then try explaining to someone what your career is when
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: it's so spread out all over the place, So you
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: get an you get sick of the conversation, don't you know,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: don't you I do? It's funny to hear you say that. Um,
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: I'd start at the exact same place. What do you say?
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: Which is like a really cop out right, it's time,
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: I say, eight years ago, I would have been like
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: dead nuts, right, Like any money I made I made
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: from ship that I wrote. That was like all of
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: my income was like like the trading of goods. Here's
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: my product that I wrote. You give me money for
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: the product, flat ass outrider. But now, yeah, it's like
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: in in small talk, which I can't stand, Like I
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: don't like small talking with strangers. Um, yeah, like stuff
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: like that's painful. It's just it's really painful. Kids are
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: like your kids are in school and there you'll find
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: out about this. Your kids are in school and there's
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: like endless events. We're supposed to go small talk with
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: other parents and you're having conversations to go like oh
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: my friend was from there. I just well we live
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: there now we live here. Oh I knew a person
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: that lived there. Now we live here too. Um. You're
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: like you're hurting me my ears right now, Like what
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: do you do? And I'm like, yeah, so what's the out,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: Like I'm gonna start telling people I'm a stripper. It's
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: just gonna shut it down to you know what. No
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: one's going to say like what kind of Oh okay,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: and then they're gonna go back to reading the paper.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: I'm serious. I'm serious. It'll end it yea, yeah, because
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: I'm over it. It's I understand. I'm all uncomfortable now totally,
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: but it's like it's not malicious. I mean they want
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: to engage, right, and it's just but then but then
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: they want to hear the story and it's not like
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: there's an investment of your time because they're never going
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: to book with you. They're never gonna be inspired. I
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: mean sometimes they're inspired enough, but it's rare. Yeah, I'm
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: being a dick right now. I'm gonna like they're not
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: doing anything wrong. Yeah, it's just like especially in an airplane,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: like already coming from not liking If you're already coming
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: from not liking small talk with people, you don't know
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: that you're not gonna wind up. You're not developing relationship.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: If I feel like I'm developing relationships, that makes me happy.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: If I'm doing a one off chat, yeah, I just
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: I have a hard time. And then when you enter
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: into that and then and then you gotta it's just yeah,
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: just strains the life out of me. No, that's interesting
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: to hear that you have the same problem. I just
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: thought I was a bit but but but I never like,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: I still come across charming. I'll still smile and be like, oh,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm a writer, and then I'll usually try
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: to change stuff, and then I'll say, what do you do? Like,
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: I just don't mind me whatever, what do you do? Yeah, stripper, Okay,
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: it might work. What do you tell people you do?
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: There's a tough one too. People ask all the time.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: You say you work in entertainment, no produced television show.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: I think, oh, yeah, what are the producer do? Then
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: then you're stuck. Yeah it's long winded answer. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: I tell them, I'm I generally tell them, yeah, I
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: got two thousand dollars do you say that? Now, I'll
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: tell people that I work in marketing for US. Usually
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: I say I work in marketing in the shooting sports industry,
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: even though yeah, now that is really the primary market
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: that we're in a hunting tactical. Those are the two
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: primary markets for what we call the category sports cutlery
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: or specialty knives. Sports cutloring, specialty knives. So the reason
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: that I don't so I feel like, maybe for the
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: same reasons, but once I started, once I start, once
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: I start into that conversation, it requires a long train
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: of explanation that I don't really want to go into.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: So I will just give them a that is the generalization.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's like, I'm what's the answer that leads to
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: the long train. Well, so I would say, I would say, oh, well,
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: I'm I work. I'm a marketing director at bench Made
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: Knife Company. What's bench made knife company? Well, it's bench
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: Made Knife Company where blah blah blah, you know, and
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: then I usually feel like, you know, maybe they'll maybe
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: they do, or maybe they don't care, but it's going
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: to require me to have a conversation that leads down
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: the road of Okay, well, tell me more about sports cutlery,
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: or tell me more about shooting sports or oh, tactical knives.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: That was a cool attempt. Yeah. So if I'm invested
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: in the conversation, I'm interested in talking to that person,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: then yeah, fine talking. But I generally also don't I
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: don't know that I, especially with strangers, really enjoy talking
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: about myself that much. So I usually will ask them
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: questions about themselves. For me, it's it's already in a round.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: It's just a total mood thing. If they catch me
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: like ten am in the airport and I've had like
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: one or two coffees and I'm feeling pretty sprouted and
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: I just got done on a hunting her fishing trip
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: and they're like, so what do you do? And I'm like, buddy,
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: you got an ear, you know? But yeah, right now,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: I don't want to tell any stories. What do you say? Like?
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: What would be? Because my big thing is because then
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: they want to know my life story? Really did your
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: dad fish? How did you get into it? Oh? That's
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: so interesting? Are there a lot of women in the sport?
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: I just what's a good way without me saying I
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: take my clothes off for a living what is a
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: good like, help me out, guys, give me a picture.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: All about the picture. It's give me an excuse. What's
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: something I can say to get out of this? To
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: get out of it? I could say I work in marketing.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: You or you could say that's say I'm a I'm
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: a professional, I'm a professional fisher. No, hell no, that's
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: what gets me. Do No, that's never gonna end. It
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: gets me just to just to plane get out of it.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: I don't work, get me out of it. I'm gonna
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: stay at home mom. No one's gonna be like no, yeah, yeah,
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: so yeah, so I'm not actually a mom. That sounds
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: a good point. It's probably what kind of mood you're in,
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: and like if you're just not if you just really
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: don't like talking about yourself with strangers that much and
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: you feel like it's not necessarily going to turn into
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: something meaningful, then it doesn't matter what you say. Like
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: you're right. You could say I'm a stay at home mom.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: You could say I'm a stripper, and the person might
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: say like, oh, that's cool, Like my sister was a stripper.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: Tell me about tell me more about stripping. Right, The
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: best way is to diverge the conversation, just get back
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: at them. I think that's what's worked worked for me
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: best is just being like, you know, you know I
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: work in the outdoors, what do you do? Or you know?
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: I notice you're reading this what is? And I'm actually
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: interested in what they do. I just don't want to
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: explain my life story. I know my life story. I'm
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: not interested in it anymore. It's kind of cool to
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: hear someone else's something this whole thing up. Um, I'm
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: gonna say that. I'm it's pleasantly surprised to hear the
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: other people don't like that kind of small talk. And
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: what it's gonna change for me is I'm going to
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: really make damn sure that I never now I'm going
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: to assume there's four people at this table who don't
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: like that kind of small talk, really gonna be very
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: good about not telling, not making other people do what
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: I now know is universally and not liked good. I'm
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: never gonna say to someone what do you do for
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: a living? I don't feel to do that now. It's
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: just too load of a question. It's just too much,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: it's too much. I'm done, man, if I've ever done
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: it for, and I don't think that I have Like
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: damn sure, I'm not gonna now go up to someone
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: now that I know it's gonna be so annoying for them.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: When I asked what they do for. We talked about
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: this before. We're pretty good at sausing now, the hunters
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: and fisherman. I can smell them mile away at the
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: little events, So you know that's that's the conversation gonna
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: go fine, and then you just get to talk about hunter. Yeah,
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: but like I gotta go to a wedding reception, this
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: one Jude Native fishes or Hans, I'm gonna find him. Yeah.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: If not, I'm not I'm gonna try real hard, nuts
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: talck to anybody find the guy with the elk tattoo
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: on his forearm. Yeah, I I maybe that so guiding.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: That's the thing that I didn't like about guiding that
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: I decided, like early on, I don't want to be
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: a guy because I would come back from Alaska and
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: I would have no interest in going fishing for salmon.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to. I didn't want to even look
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: at a salmon. And I thought, man, this is like
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: my thing. I love fishing. I don't want to turn
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: fishing into work, and that so I can talk about
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: fishing with some of your hunting all day because it's
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: not work, because it's not work. And I think, then
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: that's a really interesting point. You just said that, because
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: because like you, I made that mistake with fishing, and
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: I love Mike. I'm very blessed to have my career.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not taking it for granted by any means, but
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: because I do know the mistakes I made with fishing,
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: and I know I don't want to make those mistakes
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: with hunting. I can't tell if it's because I don't
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: have unting as a career or if it's that I
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: just haven't been hunting long enough. But I'm more than
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: happy to talk about hunting the people don hunters, hunters, whomever.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: But it hurts me to talk about fishing. And if
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: you really want to hurt me, pull your iPhone and
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: start showing me photos, have your fish on your iPhone.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: You wind up talking to some duds showing us a deer,
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: and it winds up being that, uh, you could have
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: just gone on to a website. Like by the time
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: they get done with all. This is my cousin's brother's
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: neighbors shot this buck? Yeah? Really are we talking about?
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: How do we even get here? Exactly? Know? So maybe
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: that's what it is, because yeah, there's certain things I
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: got no problem talking about, but with fishing because it
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: is my career. Because I'm just so sick of hearing
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: my own story, I'll talk about it anymore. But to
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: touch on the hunting thing for a minute. Have you
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: shot a big game family yet with a with a
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: gun or bowl? Not successful? I've Yeah, well I went
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: stag hunting this year with Adam green Tree and he called,
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: what this one beautiful stag? And you know in Australia,
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: got great stag hunting in Australia. But I guess because
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: I wasn't comfortable with the shot. Was I mean he
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: came in at me face on, and so you know
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: how the ribs closed up as they face you, and
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: I was shooting one of those like a triple what
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: do you call the triple blade, tribe blades or three boys? Yeah,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: and I just it wasn't the right shot for me,
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: so I didn't take it. My heart was going crazy
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: and it was just have you obviously you've hunted stag before? Yeah?
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, and you know how they got in New Zealand. Yeah,
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: so you know how they roar that crazy who are
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: hunted during the roar, I've heard it. I've never hunted
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: the most incredibly terrifying thing that I've ever experienced in
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: the most wonderful way. And of course you hear in
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: the ground and you know it's like vibrating underneath you.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: It was amazing. But now I wasn't able to get
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: a decent shot in, So I'm going back. When you
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: have the restraint, you didn't just be like what the hill?
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, no, no, um no. I wanted to
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: be right. I wanted to be right, so it wasn't right.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: But maybe the snack go back next week because I
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: was I was selling out. Is that my goal before
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: this baby is to catch a giant Travali and a
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: marlin and get a deer on the bow five I've
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: got I've got a book. So next week I go
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: to ash from my from my hunting trip and then
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: I go on my marlin trip. So I'm I got
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: my trips book. I don't know if I'll be successful,
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to go for it. My brother's wife
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: she huked up and killed the Mountain Go when she
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: was six and a half months pregnant. Oh yeah, and
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to still be going till I'm seven and
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: a half. I'll be going straight through until they say
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: I can't anymore for sure. Can't you hunt anything in
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: Australia pretty much any time a year with the Yeah,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: for the most part, you don't. I mean, obviously kangaroos
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: are indigenous, but even they are open season. I have
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: a no paw rule. I just don't eat things with pause.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: It's not not even an ethical thing. I just don't
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: you kind of kangaroo as a paw. Yeah I do. Yeah,
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: I just have no interest in hunting or eating kank
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: I've eating kangaroo. I don't particularly fancy it. So it's
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: not interested in the fact that they called deer and
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: that people if I mean farmers want them dead and
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: then they just wrought on the property. They don't even
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: eat them half the time, or they shoot them at
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: a helicopters. It's just it's a really great entrance into
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: the sport. Is you know, are these feral dear because
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: you still appreciate and love them, but it's just a
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: different mentality over there because you feel better about killing
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: the deer and had here doesn't suffer less knowing that
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: he's fair. I know. And when I had you on
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: my show, you had a super valid point. But it's
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: just for for the population wise now. But for the
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: population wise, it's easier just to wrap your head around
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of that's are hunting, and the same thing
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: with the with the pigs, like it's just yeah, you
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: just come in cold without understanding a whole lot of
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: like complex history and structural regulatory structure. You can come
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: in cold and be like, Okay, so I'm not doing
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: I can just without really looking into this hard, figure
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: out that I'm not doing ecological damage by hunting this animal. Yeah,
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: and I don't think you're doing a logical damage by
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: hunting animals that are wild and bc either, for example.
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: But there is something for me, not even for me actually,
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: because I'm I'm good hunting in both countries. I'm quite
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: content and I do hunt in both countries or on
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: both continents. But like for my dad who's so opposed
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: to hunting, it is easier for me if I am
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: going to go down the path of having the conversation
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: with a non hunter, which is just as painful. Oftentimes
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: it's talking about what you do for a living. But
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: if I am trying to explain to a non hunter
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: why um hunting in Australia maybe isn't so bad. The
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: fact that they can envision people hunting them about helicopters
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: and just letting them all rotten mass piles, that really
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: that really strikes a chord with them. They'd rather that
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: animal be consumed. So it's just a good it's a
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: good starting point. Like recently on my podcast started interviewing
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: hunters as I had you on there, and I decided
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: I had you and several other hunters and I decided
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: to post by Adam green Tree podcast first for a
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: reason because he's an Australian hunter. Because he could explain
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: hunting to all my listeners who don't you, who don't hunt.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: He could explain hunting and always fall back on the
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: feral animal thing, even though let's get real, like the
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: fair are the animals don't know they're feral. But it
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: does help the non hunter wrap their head around it
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: a little bit better. I find like two people would
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: say like, yeah, I believe in hunting as long as
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: it's a feral some and some people actually do they're wrong. Well,
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: it depends on how far you want to go into
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: like the you know they're they're wrong. Yeah, I think
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: if if you either believe in hunting or you don't,
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: full stop in the story. But because there's always a
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: conservation issue behind all hunting, like, let's get real about it.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know anything about the Africa stuff, but I'm
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: just talking about in BC and in Australia, whether it's
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: an indigenous animal or whether it's introduced, there's always conservation,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: um background or reasons somewhere behind that opening for the
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: most part, somewhere in it, somewhere in there. So you
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: feel that if you're talking to your audience and they're
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: fly fishing people, that the fly fishing people are, you
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: feel more comfortable, uh, introducing them to the idea of
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: hunting by having to be that you're out killing. I
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: thought that because I was going to interview him anyway,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: and I just thought that strategically I might just post
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: that one first because he came across quite gentle and
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: he was just I felt like he was a good
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: starting point to introduce my listener to bow hunting and um,
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: and I was right. I was right. The amount of
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: feedback I got was incredible, the amount of people who said,
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: I was actually really upset to hear that you were
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: going to start posting about hunting. I listened to the
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: podcast and it made perfect sense to me. I totally
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: got it. And I think because Adam was able to
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: fall back on explaining why a lot of ferial animals
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: are so bad to the egan ecosystem, it did give
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: him he probably likes those animals being there hunt him,
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: of course he does. Yeah. No, we could take the
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: argument as deep down as we want. You knows deep
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: down that road as we want. But the point is
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: for the average person who wouldn't even think to entertain
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: picking up any sort of gun or a bow, it
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: was just a good starting point. It gave them. It
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: gave them a little bit different perspective. Now, of course,
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: that same perspective is here in North America. The same
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: conservation issues and apply here, But for some reason, just
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: as soon as they hear feral and wasted meat and
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: helicopter culling, for some reason, they're just more receptive to it.
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: And for me, I don't care how I get them
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: to listen, Like if I could just get my tache
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: lists and just anyway. And if that's how I'm going
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: to do it by talking about fairl animals, then hell,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk to fairl animals. I find that here
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: in this country where people people will be like, um,
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: you know, all their life they heard because where they were,
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: where they were brought up, generally how and where they
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: were brought up, they've heard all their life like hunt's
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: real bad, hunting is bad. There's all these you know, inductrines. Um.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: When they start getting interested in hunting, they are working,
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: they're trying so hard to find a way to justify
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: it because they're kind of sickened. They're sickened to buy
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: their own interest. They're like, I feel this need. I
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: feel like I want to go do something, and I'm
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: tapping into some deep thing that I want to go do.
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: I just need to find a way that I can
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: just sell it to everyone. Everyone usually wants the first
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: thing they want to go do because they want to
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: go on a wild pig because they're like that way,
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: I don't need to deal with I don't need to
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: deal with that much of trying to like figure this out,
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: I think you have. I can fall back on this
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: idea that the pigs shouldn't be here. So this is
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: gonna be an easier way for me to get into
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: this than getting into the ship. That's like really complicated
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: and hard. Everything you just said is bang on in
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: my experience, because you're talking to one of those people
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: right now. I've been I've been brought up to understand
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: the hunting is bad, it's a necessary don't worry about
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: where your food comes from. I mean all this bullshit, right, Obviously,
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: I don't believe in that that's why I hunt. But
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: the thing is is that it's not about me justifying
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: to the rest of the world. I mean, I wanted
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: my podcast to be listened to by the rest of
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: the world so that they could open their eyes and
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: their ears a little bit. But for me, I'm that
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: person you're talking about, and and it was never about
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: justifying to other people. It was about justifying to myself
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: because I was so confused because the animal and I
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: did this piece on social media the other day. There's
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: actually a picture of the stag that we called in
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: and it's the moment where I'm on full draw. We're
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: like fifteen yards from each other. We're literally he I'm
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: watching him search my face with his eyes until his
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: eyes locked into mine and then we have that moment.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: It's just the most incredible moment of my life. And
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: it was one of those situations of I really don't
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: want to shoot you, like please go away, like just
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: don't don't give me the right shot. Don't give me
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: the right shot. And of course he didn't, so you know,
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: but it was a constant It's a constant battle of
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: if I really want to kill this animal, if I
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: really want to harvest this animal, then why do I
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: have this crazy urge to not pull the trigger. I mean,
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: it's a constant battle within myself. It's very confusing. And
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: I made my first hunt to be a pig for sure. Um,
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: I wanted to see. I was in Florida. Granted it
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: was just that's what was in season. There were pigs,
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: so I don't know if it was a conscious decision,
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: but I wanted to see how I felt about having
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: an animal die in front of me and my buddy.
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: My buddies were going on it. I got a hunting
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: trip with guns, and I really was not it didn't
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: didn't thoroughly enjoy the experience. Um, but I did choose
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: a pig. It was interesting to hear you say that,
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: because I did choose that as my first one, but
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: to justify to myself. And it's still a constant battle, Steve,
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: It's still a constant battle about why when that animal
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: does come in, why, there's a part of me it's like,
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: oh God, I really don't know if I want this shot,
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: but then deep down I really want the shot. It's
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: very confusing, it's very conflicting for a new person, and
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's my own if it's my
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: upbringing and my indoctrination that inserts that sort of uncertainty,
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: or if it's my own sensitivity, or if it's my
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: own uncertain Like, I don't know what it is, but
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: there is something in me as a new hunter who's
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: just a little bit confused by it. For sure. Then
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: pigs want to be in the gateway drug though, man
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 1: they are I think that well. I think seeing your
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: first animal dies really it's a different experience, right, Like
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: it was a real experience for me to watch my
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: first animal die, and I needed to see if I
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: could handle it. And for some reason, for some reason,
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: the pig was a justifiable animal for me. I'm not
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: saying it's right, but I think it's an adult onset
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: hunter thing where you're like, you're just mature enough to
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: have collected thoughts in that moment and to be like
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: I do, but don't I do, but don't run away.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: Don't run away? Where when you're twelve and that deer
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: runs in for the first time, it's just you know,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: tunnel vision. Yeah, all these people getting into hunting as adults. Man,
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: they're dealing with like they're on a way to trip
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: when you're like a kid who grows up around hunt.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, it's but it's hard.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: It's a very very conflicting trip. It's it's it's difficult,
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: and that is something we're talking You asked me earlier
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: about if somebody said, you know, I want you to
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: take people by the hand and lead them through. And
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: that's the sole reason why I've introduced the the Hunters
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: on the podcast is just to have them follow with
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: me in this crazy journey because it is conflicting coming
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: into this as an adult. It is, for sure. You
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: just need to get one under your belt. Yeah, it's
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: just some money you have, you have a sense of like,
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: I didn't grow up a hunting family either, you know,
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't really start hunting hard until I was eighteen
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: and my friends could. We had cars and you get
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: around on our own and all that. But yeah, when
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: you're young and you don't have a whole lot of
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: maybe thoughts of your own at that point in time,
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: and then you're just looking to have fun. You get
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: that out of the way early. Then later on there's
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: always there's always if you really, if you sounds like
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: you may be sort of soft hearted when it comes
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: to never been for fun, don't There will never not
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: be a sense of remorse. No, And it's impossible for
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: me to not have a sense of remorse because there's that, Yeah,
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: do you feel bummed out when you kill a chinook um? Yeah,
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: for a moment, I do. Yeah, No, I feel a
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: little bummed. I mean, I kill a ton of bow
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: hunt bow hunt a ton for gross and my first
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: few were yeah, I don't know. It's remorse is definitely
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: a severe appreciation, serious appreciation. I do feel a little
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: weird though, Yeah, when I touched it and still warm,
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: and there's a little bit of yeah, we're dudes eating chicken. McNuggets. Man,
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: when they buy it in that nugget, they're not there's
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: twelve or how many? How many chickens are in one McNugget? Right,
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: But that's why I started trying to get them all
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: blended together. Chickens one of the reasons why we started hunting.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: Like I was. I'm saying, the don't they don't have
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: to cope with it. Are still warm, They don't need
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: to cope with it, They don't need to think. I
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: like the term severe appreciation. It's a paradox. The sense
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: of elation outweighs the sense of remorse, but the sense
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: of remorse is still there. Yeah, that's a good pointing in, Matt,
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a it's an interesting journey, ladies and gentlemen,
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: Matt Elliott paradox. So you got any You got any
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: final thoughts you want to add in? I don't know.
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: You kind of derailed me. I got off on a
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: bunch your rants, you know, I just know you didn't.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: You had the one about where you grew up, which
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: was interesting me because I didn't realize when I think
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: a BC, I just think they're all like quaint, little
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: cute little talents. Yeah, no, no, no, Google sory, Google sory.
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no. I think the thing for me is,
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: if I had to just clarify and summer in summary,
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: I'd say, there's always every time I teach, I always
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: say two things, like, there's always asterisks beside everything I say,
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: and there's always an It depends. Everything has an't it depends.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: So a lot of this stuff we've spoken debated about
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: today has been really fast paced. So I just want
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: to make it very clear that the social media argument,
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: I understand where there's hypocrisy in both sides. I understand
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: where the argument can be debated on all sides. I
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: get it. We haven't had we don't have ten hours
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: to sit here and hash it out. But yeah, I
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: just want to kind of summarize that there are a
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: lot of it depends. I mean, I meant everything I said,
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: but there are some times where it depends. Social media
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: has been great in a lot of ways for our sports.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: It's been great for awareness, and it's been great for
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: advocacy and for community and all of that. But again,
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: it depends. Yeah, it does depend because nothing really social
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: media is so big, but then nothing really has like
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: what I don't know what it's done. You really stand
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: back and look at like hunting in America or wildlife
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: in America. Okay, public lands in America, clean air and
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: clean water in America. I can't sit back and go
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: like man, uh, things sucked and then social media came out,
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: and now man ship is great. Tangible in any kind
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: of tangible way, but as far as like as far
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: as as far as the bounds within which we're discussing
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: right now, in any tangible way, participation, amount of money,
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: amount of extracurricular spending or or non essential spending that
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: a hunter will do or a fisherman will do for
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: conservation efforts, or how clean air and water are Like
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: you're thinking, none of this ship, None of this ship
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: has been improved by it. It does not matter. The
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: real things that matter, right, but the small thing bull
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: But the small thing like Marlin vision with rise Off,
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: the small things that make up the broad things that
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: would do I have found make a difference. They tell me,
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: just real quick, just real quick, tell me the thing
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: that you're like. That part of the world sucked and
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: then social media fixed it. I can't do with that
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: part of the world. I can tell you situations where
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: we've needed awareness to be able to collect money and
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: support to be able to fight big corporations in British
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: Columbia and having the exposure again, whether it be radio
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 1: or written articles or social media or podcast or whatever
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: it may be. The the awareness has helped to beat
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: out large corporations because we've been able to accumulate funding
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: to be able to you know, have lawyers. And this
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: keep in mind, this is coming from a guy that
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: uses they used it. Well, that's what I'm saying. You
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: want to speak the biggest hypocrite, That's fine, but I
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: try not to. Um. I try to be realistic about
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: I find your social media educational and I hope that
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: my social media is inspirational. I just don't find either
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: of our social media and narcissistic. I mean, I know
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: if you go through my phone, you're not going to
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: find a single selfie on it. I just don't do them.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not going to be an entire fee
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: of me looking hot and smiling in the camera. And
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: I'm certainly not fishing to get photos of looking hot
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: and smiling in the camp. Well, if you want to
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: be a hunting hosts, yoga pants selfies is how you
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: do it. I'm never getting pictures of yourself exercising and
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: be like getting ready for both season. Okay, so I
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you that's the that's
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: the female path of success. Now, if I feel like
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: I might look hot in my yoga pants, I might no, no, no,
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: but hey, look here. If you're not catching the sarcasm, yeah, no,
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: I caught the sarcasm. But I'll be gonna be honest
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: with you. And what I'm gonna say is a big deal.
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: It's a big deal. I have enjoyed bow hunting more
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: than I enjoy fly fishing. That's huge for me to
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: say that. And I love it so much that when
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: I first got into it, I was so I loved
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: it so much that it actually really threw me off
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: because it was all I could think about, still all
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: I can think about, and it really scared me that
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: someone was going to try to take it away from me.
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: And that was very strange to be like, well, who's
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: going to take it away from me? And then I
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: had to really look into myself and reflect and go, okay,
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: this is this is your fear because of fishing, and
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: so I just refused to let anyone take this from me.
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: This is mine. The industry, neither industry can have it.
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: This is mine. You know what I think you're liking
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: about it? What do you think earlier? I thought about that,
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: the stripping away of realities. I think that, Um, what
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: you're liking about is it's it's it's got it. It's
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: it's more connected to the reality. It is. It's all reality,
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: even more connect it to that ancient food acquisition technology,
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: even when the triggers not pulled, just getting up on
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: that animal there, it's only reality, it is only there's
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: no game here that It's not a game for me.
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 1: It's not a game for me, because you're right, with
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: the marlin, it's totally a game. But with this, with
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: this hunting thing, doesn't matter, bou, whatever it is, this
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: is not a game. No, you can't make them into
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 1: a golf ball. No, no, take it really seriously, Matt,
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: what do you think about all that? So I was
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: going to go back to what I was saying about
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: not liking to necessarily have conversations with people about I'll
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: tie this in, but I actually do, like on an
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 1: airplane talking to the well. So I don't like what
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: talking about what I do for a living. But I
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 1: do like talking about nives. I do like talking about
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: bench made and I do like talking fishing, and I
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: like talking hunting, and I especially like talking hunting with
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: people who either a don't hunt or even be I
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: don't agree with hunting because yes, because most of the
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: most the time, I feel like I feel like I
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: can champion an argument that we'll win out over somebody's argument.
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: Again saying, I'm not saying that I'm always going to
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: be infallible in that conversation. You're a pretty non intimidating
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: guy too, Like the same thing with Adam. It's a
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: softer approach. I guarantee you. I guarantee you as a
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: nod hunter. If I sat down with you, Steve, and
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 1: if I sat down with you, I would be much
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: more inclined to listen to what you had to say
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: because you're just a little softer in in your approach.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: That's the way I feel, because you are so said
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 1: in your way, Steve, like you would be intimidating I
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: think for a non hunter. And yeah, like you changed
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: my mind about major ship every day. No, I understand that,
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: but like you just there's just a different approach, Like
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: he's a soft guy for the most part. I mean,
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: but like like look at look at how look at
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: how ready turned on. He was talking about spying on
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: his wife from the catwalk, Like creepy, you know what
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: I mean. But I think that I think that you're right.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: I think that, Um, I know. I enjoy talking to
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: non hunters too, especially because I love going on from
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: a software approach. I think I'm just assuming that you
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: have a software approach. I just want people who are
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: thoughtful about hunting and where that practice comes from, to
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: be able to champion that conversation as often as possible
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: with people who don't to change their mind, to have
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: them realize that people are a part of the ecosystem
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 1: and it's important for us to take upon ourselves that
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: responsibility of being the apex predators, and it's good for
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: it's good for the wildlife. He does have a soft approach.
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: I've got to eat my words because I googled you
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: before I met you, and I watched you tell some
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: vegan guy explain your point of view on it, and
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: you actually did a fantastic job, Like I shared it.
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: Because I'm talking there, I'm talking to someone I don't know,
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: and I don't know what they know. But I'm talking
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 1: to friends of mine and we're like if I'm talking
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 1: to friends of mine and we're like dicking around with
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: like very fious ideas, I'm not worried about it. I'm
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 1: not worried about like coddling them into some kind of belief.
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: Just like I'm not like, you need to be gentle
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: with young Matt here. You know. It's like he knows
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: what he knows. Yeah, but if he does something that
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 1: seems funny to me, honestly, time, I think it's funny. Yeah,
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: I had a great time fish and bass, but I
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: still think there's a lot of stuff about bass fish
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: and it's really strange. I will not I'm not gonna
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: roll up on some dude. I'm not gonna pull my
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: boat up next to a bass fish and and be like, hey, uh,
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: here's here's what I think is weird about what you're
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: up to over there. It's just not invited, you know.
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: It's just a way different thing like to talk to
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: to talk to people you are friends with and admire.
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's just a difference, but it's not.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: It's not the rhetorical approach I would use if confronted
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: with someone who says, like, hey, man, um, I have
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: serious reservations about hunting, and here's what they are. How
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 1: would you handle some guy in the air a plane? Then,
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: so you have to say, I don't know. If I
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: had an hour, we could mock up a conversation, but
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't handle it with him by like, it's just
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: as different. It's just a different conversation. It's not what
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 1: we're doing right now, right. No, But you don't but
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: you don't enjoy the conversation that I would. You do
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: enjoy the conversation, that conversation because that's not small talk.
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: I don't like. Okay, that's all I was trying. I
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 1: don't like the kind of thing like oh. And then
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: we moved to got it, got It, got it, and
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, because that's why you're taking out
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 1: You like meaningful, you like meaningful, but you do you
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: do like the conversation. And someone said you're reading the
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 1: hunting magazine, young man. Um, I really just dislike hunting
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: and I'm not unfamiliar with it. I grew up in
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 1: a hunting family, and I came to hate hunting, right,
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: idel Like, let me put away my work. It would
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: love to have a long check. That's all I was wondering,
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 1: got it? Okay? All right, so we're all the same
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: page there, right, Yeah, small talk, that's cool. Right. So
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: I'm telling someone, well, we have three kids. Not my
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: cousin had three kids like that. I also don't want
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 1: people to think that I'm like Avida. That's okay, everybody
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 1: knows I'm a creep now Avidly again. Yeah, I'm not
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: against retention bass fishing either. As long as they're smaller
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: than fourteen inches, you should keep all of them you want.
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: Got it? Yeah? And it tastes great. They do taste good.
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 1: I aint I caught my first small mouth bass intentionally today.
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 1: It was always bycatch. It took a while to get
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 1: the hook set down, but then you were on them.
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: After that. What what were you fishing to get your
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: catching them accidentally? Like? How are you? I don't know,
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: just here and there. I was probably just floating down
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: some Michigan river with a spin rod way back in
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 1: the day, just whatever, bites, just chucking, and all of
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: a sudden there was a fish and I probably didn't
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: even wouldn't even go name it, you know, But no,
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: that was a lot of fun. But yeah, I was
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: being too gentle with him. We've been fishing all week
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: with like like, uh, just like subtle takes on the
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: red fish, and um, I don't know, we just besides
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: the selfish and the and the why who, those weren't
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: subtle takes, but the I don't know, everything else is
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: a little touchy feeling. And I was, you know, match
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: the little dinky rods and the drop shot and a
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: little bitty worm. I didn't even fish a soft plastic
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: that small. I've always fished like stuff that's been six
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: eight inches long and we're fishing what are those three
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: inch Yeah? But um, yeah I was. I wasn't giving
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: it to him. I really started real and down getting
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 1: and that was getting it done. Yeah, you know, nothing
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: better than punching a eight barbed hook right through the
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: face of some baths with eighty pound tests. Sorry, they're
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 1: just gonna pitch back like I taught you less and
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 1: Mr Fish Redneck Country. That's one of the things we
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: didn't get into this, but that this is gonna be
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 1: my concluding thoughts. That was one of the things I
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 1: thought was most interesting when you know, Mad and I
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 1: for a long time and playing on since past bear season,
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: we've been playing on bass fishing. This weekend, he's gonna
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 1: bring up his big fancy bass boat and I've been
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 1: very excited to do my bass fishing. And then we arranged,
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 1: you know, were you able to come and talk to us.
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: And if it's just a funny thing to think about,
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 1: would be that um fly fishing is oftentimes, in the
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: outside eyes oftentimes associated with like a sort of elitism
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: and outdoor elitism, and bass fishing is sort of this
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: like lowly right, you know what I'm saying, The stereotype, stereotype.
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: You could there's people who have a stereotype of like that,
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 1: there's like this elitest quality of of fly fishing like
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: this like holier than quality of fly fishing. And there's
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 1: in that same guy right doing what he likes to do,
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: could also sit and he sees a bass ball and
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: he's gonna have this right redneck he'll build you know
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: what I mean. But it's funny because like when you
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: look at like the if a Martian came, okay, a
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: Martian wouldn't pick up on all this Martian would be
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: like these there's these people who like to go out
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: and catch these fish, and um, that means somehow means
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: a great deal to him to catch these fish and
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 1: let him go and and I'd imagine they all get
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: along very well. Just the way it's marketed. You guys
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 1: are just marketed so much different. It's differently, it's just
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: a different world, No it is. It's just like it's
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 1: just it's peep, it's there. It's fun to go catch fish.
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: And there's different ways of doing it. There's different ways
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: of doing it, and they're really um. If you get
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 1: hung up on the differences, it's because you already know
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 1: a lot about it. Yeah, you should probably just looking
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: for something to out and outside perspective would be like this,
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: this is gonna be my actual thought. Like you know,
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 1: like in certain countries, Catholics and Protestants fight a lot.
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 1: They're not fighting the devil worshipers. Like if you go
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 1: like you're like, oh, you know who really gets me mad,
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 1: It's a Protestant, right, it seems like it would really
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: get me mad, would be a devil worshiper because that's
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 1: like the real opposite of me. Right, You tend to
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 1: kind of those like a little in like it's people
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 1: have a better tendency to do a sort of in fighting. Ye,
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't do it anyone any good. I mean,
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: that's why I get upset when people hate on bake guys,
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 1: because the people we should be hanging on in some situations,
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: or let's say, the government or or you know, commercial
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: nat or whatever trash in the habitats. And if we
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: actually teamed up with if the fly guys would just
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 1: get over themselves and team up with the bake guys,
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 1: and the bake guys would get over with themselves and
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: team up with the flag guys, we'd have a much
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: bigger community to actually make a difference. You start a
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: thing called the Clean Water and Lots of Fish Alliance
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: and all and all these types of fishermen with their
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 1: like idiosyncratic methodologies were joined together and fight for clean
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 1: water and lots of fish. In fighting is a very
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: dangerous thing. H there you go. Alright, Matt, you red
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 1: neck especially, I love bass fishing. It's super fun. I
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: think you have a lot of fun even in a
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: sparkly boat. Yeah, we're catching fish off from under people's
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: apart being in that boat's half like the fun's special
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: out there today amongst the sparkles and stand on those
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: decks leaning against the fancy post watching Matt up. They're
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: working the trolling motor and you need to really work it. Man.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: We were getting worked over by the wakes. I mean
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 1: it was a war zone out there today. It's yeah,
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of recreation on that lake. Man, lievable.
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 1: Need to come to Australia for us and Australian bass. Yeah,
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 1: they're fantastic, highest density in the United States. The boats. Yeah,
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: we were taking waves and these boats are built to
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: take rough water and we were taking waves over the
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: bow today from boat traffic. Yeah. Well we were on
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: the trolling motor, not even under power. It's extreme small
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 1: mouth bass. Are you are prepared to charter or see
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: one thirty to get that bass boat over to Australia.
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 1: I bet we could find something. What if I told
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 1: you that we may have a bass boat. I'm not kidding.
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. We do a lot
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 1: of bass fishing, yeah, tons of bass fishing. We'll take
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 1: you bass fishing, all right. Is that a native bass? Yeah,
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: Australian bass. Yeah, it's really crazy too. Because they're in
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: the same small rivers as bull sharks, so like you
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 1: can't get out, and sometimes we catch bull sharks back
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 1: when we're bass fishing. Are they more like a peacock
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 1: bass and more like a like are they Are they
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 1: flashy or drab? No? Pretty drab. I think they look
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: like a large mouth bass. It's exactly what they look like. Yeah,
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 1: they're incredible. What what's a big one? Look? How big
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 1: is a big one? What's this in your guys system?
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: That's yeah, she's showing like a queen. That's a trophy, trophy, trophy, trophy, trophy.
• 2:19:15
  Speaker 1: I'm saying my average probably like this. Yeah, that's pretty average. Okay,
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 1: pretty average. That sounds good. It's good times. I'll take
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: you up on that, all right, let me know, all right,
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 1: thank you for joining us, Thank you for having us
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: on the show. Pulled up a picture. Yeah, he looks
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 1: like he live right here quite nicely. Yeah. I thought
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: I caught something like just like a rock bass. It's
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: like a giant rock bass. And then we have this
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 1: thing called murray cod. You ever seen a murray cod?
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 1: I've heard a lot about those from Australians. Can you
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: punch in murray cod. Yes please. You fish with them
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 1: the same way as you do with bass, So you
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 1: get all up with your big pop persons or whatever
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: it is that you're fishing, and you get right in
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: tight and I love those little things. This is those
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 1: little lures you guys have, But they're like thirty dollars
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 1: of pop. They're crazy. Um, that's yeah. But look at
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 1: how big these things get some wal Yeah, yeah, days, John,
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 1: we're gonna duck out and look at we're gonna talk
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 1: on and look at someone else, someone else. Have a
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 1: good night.