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The Ken Franck Episode · Beyond the Sermon

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You're listening to Beyond the Sermon, the podcast the First
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Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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On our podcast, the goal is not just to share our sermons, but
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to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're learning and
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what God is doing in us and in our community.
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This fall, we're living in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke,
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and John and learning how to live from our model, Jesus.
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This conversation was inspired by our series The Gospels.
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You can find more information about our church at
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fumccollingswood.org. Thanks for joining us for this
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conversation. Well, thanks for joining us
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today. We are here with an extra
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special guest this morning. It might not be morning for you,
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but we're we're having the conversation in the morning.
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But special guest Ken Frank. Ken has been a member of our
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congregation for the last few years and a long time resident
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here in Collingswood. Do you actually live in
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Collingswood or is it technically?
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Had in Township. Technically had in Township.
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Yeah, they said years ago like 1/3 of my lawn was in
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Collingswood and what we we paid the, the owner of the house paid
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50 or $70 a year to Collingswood for that little piece of lawn
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and then the rest. Then Collingswood finally said
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just pay all your taxes ahead in Township.
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So my next door neighbor is Collingswood.
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Really. A person across the street is
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Collingswood. Yeah.
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Partial property. It's it's wild how the how the
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lines. Go.
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It was weird. Does that mean that it's still
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Collingswood? They just don't want to fight
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over pennies. I I.
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Or did they change the outline of Collingswood for your third
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of a long? I I don't know how it works.
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I have no idea. All I know is I pay too much
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taxes to have in Township. I know that much.
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We have that in common in Collins.
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Yeah, I'm sure you did. Well, Ken, give us a little bit
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of biographical background, you know, tell us a little bit of
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who you are. What makes Ken Frank, Ken?
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Frank Well, I was raised by two Christian parents and two
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Christian grandparents. My grandmother was like another
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mother to me. I had two mothers growing up and
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always went to church, always made sure I went to church,
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always made sure I went to Sunday school.
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But when I was in school at Woodland, I was a little kid
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below. They only went up to 8th grade,
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so like 5th, 6th grade. We would walk one day a week, I
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think it was Wednesday. We would walk one day a week
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from the school to the Methodist Church and we would have like an
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hour lesson and then we would walk back.
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I don't know why they don't stay.
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They used to do that here in Collingswood, too.
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They'd come here to this church or depending on which
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neighborhood you were in. Yeah, it would be like you'd get
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released from school early to go have Bible club.
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Wow. At the church, yeah.
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I remember, I learned so much and I still remembered a lady,
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Missus Hartman. I remember at Easter time she
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was telling the lesson of Jesus at Easter and how he was
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crucified on the cross. She had so many tears running
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down her face. I, I was so touched by that
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Lady. I still remember Missus Hartman.
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She, she taught me some. That's what I mean, ever since I
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can remember, I've always been a Christian.
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I've always loved the Lord. That's why people have these
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great things they can say about, Oh, how I was saved and, and I
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did this before and, and I, I found the Lord and I've always
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known the Lord since I was knee high to A, to a frog.
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You know, I mean, I just, in fact, if I, I remember like it
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was yesterday, one day I showed up to church.
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My parents had already been there.
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For some reason, I didn't go to Sunday school that, that week,
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but we, I always went to Sunday school and they did, but I got
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there later or whatever, and I didn't have a tie on that day.
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My mother was beside herself. Shit.
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You, you can't come to the Lord's house with, with, you
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know, without a tie, a jacket on and a nice white shirt.
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I just didn't have the tie on and she flipped out over it.
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So I, I, I've always, I've, I've always known the Lord.
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I wasn't always as close to him as I am now.
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And I, I thank you and you and this church for helping me to
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come closer and, and want to serve God.
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I, I'm still nervous counting money every 3rd Monday or every
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second Monday when I and I, I would have never even thought of
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doing that years ago. But like I said, I don't have
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anything exciting to say about how I found the Lord.
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I always have known the Lord, but I've seen the Lord work in
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my life countless times and I, I've been blessed by him.
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I, I know my wife is in other faiths.
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She's Catholic, but she's a wonderful Christian.
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She believes in Jesus. She knows she's saved.
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I've been so blessed by her. She's always been where, where I
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would would go to church on Sunday, but I would just go to
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church on Sunday. And then all week I, I was so
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busy at work. I, I, I wasn't as close to the
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Lord. She was always close.
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She was always, always, always close.
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And she still is. And it it helps me because when
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I see her then I I want to do more also.
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Well, I I have a trick for you for if you come into the same
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situation as you did as a kid, take off the shoelace, tie it
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around and say it's a bolo tie. There you go 'cause I have some
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of. Those exactly in.
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Colorado with my parents as a as a kid, I was probably about 17
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or 18 and I bought a couple of those out there and I still have
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them in my drawer and in my bedroom.
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Oh. Yeah, no, my grandfather only
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did bolo ties after he retired from RCA, he said I'm never
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wearing a tie again. So he only did the bolo ties.
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And So what? What town did you grow up in?
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Hannon Township. I grew up in woodland right next
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door. Right next door.
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So you stayed local and whole? Life.
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I grew up in the Marshall Memorial Methodist Church in
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Woodland, and I still remember the pastor there.
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When I was there, Pastor Sermon, I thought that was the greatest
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pastor's name ever. I said, how much, how much
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better her name can that be for her pastor?
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It's not as exciting as Rambo, but.
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But gets to the point. But yeah, I can still see his
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face. He was a wonderful man.
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And he had two daughters, Mildred and Melissa, and they
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were in the same grade. They were twins and they were in
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the same grade as I was in in Woodland School and we went to
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school together and we were pretty close.
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Wow. And so you mentioned wife and
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you mentioned work. So I don't know which came
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chronologically in your life, what career did you do?
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And also, how did you meet your wife and.
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When I first got out of college, I worked at the IT doesn't even
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exist anymore. It's the Gloucester County
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Times, the newspaper I sold advertising for them, not my
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personality to be a salesman. I did it for four years, didn't
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like it. And my dad had a, had a friend
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that lived next door to us in Woodland when I was growing up,
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George Lilly. And he was a boss at PSE&G.
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And my dad just mentioned to him something, you know, my dad said
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to me, why don't you call George, you know, tell him
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you're unhappy in the job you're in and maybe he can help you get
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in. And he, he's, he's been a mentor
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to me. He, we go out to dinner
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together. And I, I had 35 years at PSE and
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GI, started out just reading meters and then I went into the
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office in the bookkeeping department, did accounting work
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there. And all, all, all wonderful
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people I worked with. I loved, I loved working at
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PSE&G Thank God I'm, I'm one of the last few that still get a
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pension and how people work at PSE&G, There's no more pensions.
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It's just a 401K. So I have, I have the pension
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from there. And so I, I've been blessed by
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that. My, my wife, I, I met her at a
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dance and we just hit, hit it off right away.
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I, I think I talked her ear off about the Eagles, but she was
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from Philadelphia. So she but she didn't watch
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football or whatever, but she acted like she was interested in
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football because this nut was talking to her about football.
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Yeah. How old were you at that dance
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when you met her? 19. 19. 19, yeah, yeah, young
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now. I'm 71 now, We've been together.
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For a few minutes. She's stuck with me for a lot of
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years. I don't know how she did it, but
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she did it. And I've been blessed by her.
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I was telling Pastor Jeremy before we came in here that
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she's always been close with the Lord and and always served at
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our church way more than I ever did.
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And it made me want to do that here.
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Yeah, you made me want to do that here.
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Just just knowing you. 2 And and being with so many, the men's
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Bible study there's like it's grown.
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When I started, when I started with them like two or three
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years ago, it was like 11 of us. Now it's up to 16 and we get
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texts between each other all the time asking for prayers.
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It's been a blessing in my life. It's brought me closer to the
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Lord than I ever have been. And I've told you 100 times
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about the Thursday morning prayer meeting.
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There's something about 6:30 in the morning, especially today,
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it was dark as all heck, but coming in and, and coming into
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the, to the prayer meeting and reading the Bible with other
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believers. And it's just, and something
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about that room that there's I, I always say to them by things
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I'm nuts, but I say there's something about that parlor.
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I'm almost closer to the Lord and I guess because it's more
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confined than in the sanctuary. But when I work at the pantry
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and I come here to the pantry, when I leave the pantry, I
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always go in that sanctuary and pray and I can stay focused
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better there, kneeling at the kneeler and praying in there.
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Because one of one of the guys in, in the Bible study always
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says, you know, I have a hard time staying focused when I
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pray. And I, I told him, I said, well,
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I says, he doesn't belong to this church.
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He lives further away. I says what I do, I says, I come
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into the sanctuary, There's nobody in there.
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It's quiet. And I kneel at the kneeler and I
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pray and I, and I'm so much closer to the Lord that way.
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For some reason. I, I can pray at home.
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I have my own little area at home.
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I pray, I enclosed my front porch and that's my area.
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I have all my, my Bibles there, all my different books that I
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that I read about the Lord and I'm so I got a little love seat
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across from me and I, I picture Jesus sitting right there when
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I'm praying and it's it, it, it really, it's helpful to me.
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That's beautiful. I love that you're talking about
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a lot of how you've grown and and changed while you've been
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here. How did you get from Pastor
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Sermon to this church? When I worked at PSE and GI
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worked so many hours, I shouldn't have worked as much as
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I did. I didn't follow the Lord as
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closely then, and when I retired this one, I really came closer
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to the Lord and I had a great pastor in Collingswood, Pastor
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Jerry Anderson. He's the one that him and
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another pastor helped me, helped me and my wife get our daughter,
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adopt our daughter, and he brought me close to the Lord.
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He baptized me. He was a Baptist minister right
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here in Collingswood, the Baptist Church, and then he left
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here and he went out to Pennsylvania.
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And at least once a month I would drive out to his church in
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Pennsylvania and hear him preach.
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And then we would always go. He was near Lancaster.
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We'd always go to the Shady Maple Buffet.
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As one does when they're near Lancaster.
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I mean, you're driving it off. Right.
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Exactly. Yeah.
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So yes, pastor, pastor and his wife and me and my wife, we
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would, we would take him out to to lunch or dinner, whatever it
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was after church. It is, it is.
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He always kept me close to the Lord, but the whole time I knew
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him, I was working at PSE&G and I was working so many hours.
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I didn't serve the Lord. I, I went to Sunday church
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every, every Sunday and listened to his preaching and, and I, I
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loved it. I was attending after Pastor
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Jerry left Collingswood and went out to the Lancaster area.
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I, I, I didn't like the way they had him leave.
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They, they basically told him to leave.
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I didn't like that. I loved the man like my like a
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second father. So I didn't go to church at all.
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So he called me one day and he asked me how I was doing and how
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I was doing at church and how things were going.
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I said, pastor, I haven't been to that church since you left
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and I'm. Sure.
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He was like, good job, good job, Ken.
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That's exactly what I wanted to hear, right?
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I don't think he thought that, but he was, he was, he said to
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me, he says, I know a wonderful church for you to go to.
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He says Laurel Springs Baptist Church and you know, it was like
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1/2 hour drive or 25 minute drive from where I lived.
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And I said, but I went and my, my mom always went with me.
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So I would pick my mom up and we drive down to Laurel Springs
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Baptist Church and I like the pastor there, Pastor Meldrum.
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He was, he was a good man, a good pastor.
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My mom really got bad with Alzheimer's, terrible, terribly
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bad. And I didn't want to put her in
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a home. So we were able to bring a lady
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in from Ghana. She was a wonderful lady,
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Pauline, and she a little hard to understand sometimes with her
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accent and all, but she took care of my mother wonderfully.
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And my mother was hard to take care of because she was not in
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her right mind. And as she kept her clean and
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she kept her wonderful and all, and but my mother couldn't
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attend church. Why I couldn't take her to
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church. And I never got one call from
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the pastor, never asked about her, never asked about me,
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because I didn't go either. And I was, I was really hurt by
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that. And then one day I think I
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called him and I said, I don't know what to do with my mom.
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She's really bad. I don't know if Pauline's going
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to be able to continue taking care of her.
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And he says you should put her in, I forget some place it had
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in Cherry Hill. He says, put her in there,
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she'll be fine. And it was like a kind of an
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abrupt conversation. And it it really.
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So I stopped going. That wasn't right.
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And I was, that's probably my darkest time away from the Lord.
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I didn't know the Lord as well as I do now.
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I fell away from him and I wanted to get closer.
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And I didn't know what church to attend.
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I didn't know what church to go to.
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And my sister, Joyce Berry, she belonged here.
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You didn't know. Oh yeah, yeah, Joyce is my
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sister. Anyway, she said, oh, we just
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got a new pastor at the at the Methodist Church here, Pastor
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And Bob, he was old Rambo. You can't forget his name is
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Rambo. He's got a great name.
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I says. I said, OK, I said I'll come in
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and and and see what it, you know, see if I like the church
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and the the first Sunday I was here.
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I don't know what you you just well, you came up and saw me
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before the church even started and shook my hand and you said
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your name is Scott, which I can't call you Scott 1st, 1st.
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And I can't call you Jeremy. Everybody calls you guys by your
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first name. I'm, I'm, I just not cut that
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way. Yeah.
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I just can't do it. So I call you Pastor.
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You're not the only one. And I always call you pastor.
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You're old enough to be my son, but.
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And grandson and grandson, but I'll always call you pastor.
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But anyway, she, she told me how much she liked it here.
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And, and I was touched by your sermon and I, and I even went
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and kneeled, kneeled at the front and prayed.
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And you came over. I remember you're putting your
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hand on my shoulder and I was so touched.
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And I, I think I asked you that Sunday if I could join your
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church. And you did.
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And it took a little while, but I finally was able to join.
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And I just every week it seems it gets better and better for me
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here. I, I, I love coming here.
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I love this church, the people I've met in here.
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Lou Farling is like, is like another father to me now.
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I'm probably close to his. I'm 71, he's 80 something.
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So I mean, he's not old enough to be my father, but he brought
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me to the men's Bible study, told me all about it.
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And I, I spoke to him. I says, you know, when I came to
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this church to live, I said, I just had a feeling that this was
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where I should be. This is where I'm going to learn
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to be close to, to the Lord. He says, Kenny, that's the Holy
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Spirit talking to you. That's the Holy Spirit telling
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you this is where he wants you. Yeah.
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You sure, right. And I just, I, I, I love coming
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here. I love being with the people
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here. It's just they everybody just
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makes you feel like you've known them for 100 years.
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And I'm horrible with names, especially as I'm getting older
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now I'm 71. I'm horrible with names.
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But people don't care. They don't, you know, they laugh
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about it if I tell them or call them a wrong name or say I
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forget their name or whatever. Lovely lady.
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I don't know her, her last name, her first name's Carol.
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And I always remember, she says. And I says, I'll forget your
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name, Carol. She says, think of Christmas
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Carol when you see me and you always remember now I always say
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Christmas Carol, how are you? She's in my Sunday school
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normally. And she, she, she was in the
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9:00 with, with the old group of people.
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And now we're all together, which is a great thing.
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I think it's so much better say that again.
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When I, when I, when I sit there, I sit there with my, with
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my friends from the pantry. And I got to talk to you guys
19:38
about the pantry. I got to do an advertisement for
19:40
my but when I sit there with with Connie Klein and and Bob
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Holmes and Pastor Escher, who I've come to love.
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He's a great. He is, he is a great person.
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And it, it, it's the, it's the greatest thing in the world.
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And I'm right in the center of the church.
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You're right. I, I can't look away from you.
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And it's just it, it's, it's wonderful.
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It's, it's, it's, it's, it's fantastic.
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And I've come closer to the Lord thanks to thanks to you, thanks
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to Pastor Jeremy, thanks to this church, thanks to everyone
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connected with this church. It's been a blessing to me.
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I didn't know you were new. I like.
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'Cause you came like 3 years. Yeah, you came after him, but
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before May, so I just assumed. And like you said, the way that
20:37
everyone just takes you in. Yeah, I just assumed that you'd
20:40
been here for. They'd take me in like I've been
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here my whole life. Yeah.
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And I haven't. I'm like 3 years.
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And that's great. And it's so funny when you
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mentioned the calling, calling us pastor is that when I, when I
20:53
like came into this job and ministry, I'm like, I'm
20:57
perfectly. It took me a while to get used
20:59
to being called pastor just because I never thought I'd be
21:01
one. But then like, after a while I
21:03
was like, OK, I, I've come to accept it.
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The time that it's odd for me is in Mexico, where people, once I
21:09
got the title started calling me pastor.
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But I grew up with them and they, they just known me,
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Jeremy. So then it switched to like a
21:15
very formal, I'm like, you've been calling me headache my
21:19
whole life. And now, now it's pastor.
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And there's like this, this tone and respect to it.
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I was like, it's fine. I'm still being.
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I'm still. Same guy.
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But yeah, no, I, I always, I always appreciate and respect.
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And for me, it's a good reminder of the calling in which God has
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specifically put me in. Like I know my responsibilities
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within the church, but to hold that title and what that means
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to many of people, it's always a good reminder.
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So I I want to say that I appreciate you sick and sticking
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to that, even though it still throws me off every once in a
21:56
while, still throws me off just 'cause I forget it sometimes,
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but I'm. 71 years old and and you're so young and I, but I,
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you're, you're, you're a pastor. So to me, I I can't call you
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Jeremy. Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
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And our our final question for you is what are you excited
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about in the future of this church?
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I pray every day and every night that we keep this building and
22:25
we keep this beautiful church. But let me talk about the pantry
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first. The the pantry is, is close to
22:34
my heart. I, I love helping the people,
22:37
people that need gosh, the price of food.
22:40
Now you can't go to a grocery store without spending 80 bucks
22:43
on one bag of food. And so I try to do everything I
22:50
can to help at that pantry and, and having at our church is
22:54
wonderful. It's the greatest thing ever
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when I forget. I, I worked one day at the
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Cherry Hill food pantry, but that's not associated with a
23:05
church or anything, right? I could tell the difference
23:09
right off the bat and, but I, I would have stayed there, but I
23:13
only worked there one time. It was ready to Thanksgiving.
23:15
We were giving out turkeys and all.
23:16
I, I liked it and all, but then they said, well, Pastor Scott's
23:20
thinking about having the pantry come to our church and he's
23:23
going to have a meeting with Susan Merrill.
23:26
And I was just so excited about it, and I was just thrilled that
23:31
it came to our church. Yeah, God really orchestrated
23:33
those things. Yeah, yeah.
23:36
So we do 25 to 30 families. It's like over 100 people were
23:41
feeding. Absolutely, that makes a
23:43
difference. It does whatever we can do with
23:46
the pantry. It it, it touches me.
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Yeah, it. I love it.
23:50
Yeah, and it's a beautiful thing when we can be used to be the
23:53
handsome feet of God. Thank God I came here and I
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found Pastor Scott and Pastor Jeremy because I can see the
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Lord Jesus and both of you and I tell you how I love Thursday,
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Thursday morning, the prayer meeting is it is the greatest
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for me. I just thank both of you for for
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being here and for being here for me and for being here for
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everyone. Well, I'll I'll push that blame
24:25
to God and let him take the credit for it, but can I close
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our time in prayer? That all right, Always.
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God, we're so grateful that you are a God who is always at work
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and you are always working things together to bring about
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your ultimate purposes. And we don't always understand
24:50
how the journeys that we've been on have gotten us to the point
24:54
where we are, but we we know God, that it's because you're
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working. And so today we want to pray for
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those whose whose journeys have taken them away from you.
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And we we trust God that you are the one who knows hearts and
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minds you. You don't judge us by our
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outward appearance, but you know our hearts.
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And we pray God, that those who have known you and and walked
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away from you, God, would you bring them back to yourself?
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Would you draw them close to your heart?
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For those who who have never known you, God, we pray the same
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thing. Would you reveal yourself to
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them and, and draw them close to your heart?
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God, we thank you so much for this time with Ken and for his
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part in our congregation for the the things he's involved in and
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loves and for the ways that you've met him and used him and
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those things. God, we pray you'd continue to
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use our food pantry here at the church to reach out and meet the
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needs of our community. God and pray that you would
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continue to raise up people to to donate towards that and and
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to serve there. God that we would be able as a
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church to continue to be your hands and feet in the world.
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God, we love you and we thank you and we pray all this in your
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name. Amen.
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Well, that's our conversation for today, but that doesn't mean
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the conversation is over. We'd love to hear your thoughts
26:29
on these topics as well. To ask a question about anything
26:32
we've discussed in this episode or to join the conversation, you
26:36
can head over to fumccollingswood.org/podcast.
26:41
Thanks for being part of this conversation.