Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to David Maskell about his choice of Revelation of the Daleks (1/2)

Transcript

Talks to David Maskell about his choice of Revelation of the Daleks (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
I'm still with a plump pen my for doing quicker, quicker.
0:40
Quicker David. I have a message from the great.
0:42
Healer, you must leave with me if I am Joe Bell.
0:51
The place wouldn't function without me.
0:55
I figures the height of fashion. A fat, bald eggotist like you?
1:02
Welcome back. To a hamster with a blood thin
1:07
knife. And I may have given you a big
1:10
clue as the story we're talking about today.
1:14
My wonderful guest is Mr. David Masco.
1:18
You might know him as Missus Remington Fan from Twitter and.
1:22
This hamster commentary such as, oh silver Nemesis, we've done,
1:26
we've done, Oh my God, what else have we done?
1:30
We've done Terrors of Voids. That's right, Sun Makers, your
1:33
sagacity. And oh, in paradise, of course.
1:40
The fact that I just had to make that noise and you knew exactly
1:44
what it was from the get go. You know, obviously we're doing
1:47
Revelation of the Dalits say, but I've noticed there is a
1:50
little theme with these stories. They are a little bit camping
1:53
over the top that they are cinematic masterpieces.
1:58
That's terror of her boys is yes, yes, yes.
2:02
They are a little bit camp. Yeah, I will.
2:03
I will. I will agree with that.
2:06
Yeah, I'm also probably this one here.
2:08
Don't. You.
2:10
It's the best soul. It's the best soul.
2:12
I mean, this is, we were just saying before we start, this is
2:15
like one of my favorite stories ever, and it's probably the
2:19
campus story you'll ever get in your life.
2:22
And just seeing a picture of Elena Bron is just the height of
2:24
dampness. Come on.
2:26
And it's disgusting Little Squire in whole Galaxy.
2:33
Anyway, we're just quite. Are you are you picking your
2:36
nose? Oh, we're gonna have fun with
2:40
this one. Okay, this has been in the
2:42
pipeline for ages, this story quite a while.
2:45
And can I just say now before we start viewers, you know, not
2:49
going to be ready for this because we are.
2:52
We're going to just laugh our way through this, aren't we?
2:54
Let's face it, it's going to be the most crazy commentary you'll
2:58
ever hear. It is the truth.
3:00
I believe that. I mean, I've met about four
3:04
members of the cast of this story, but I believe you may
3:07
have met quite a few more. Yeah.
3:11
I think I've met nearly everyone from the story, with the
3:14
exception of the ones that are dead.
3:16
And I'll see me. I'll see me.
3:20
Yeah. Yeah it's it's a it's a big one
3:24
for me in terms of cast meets a lot and some of them have been
3:29
pleasant and some of them have not been pleasant and.
3:31
I'm going to get all of those stories out of you as we go.
3:35
I mean, I was there. Some of those stories.
3:38
I was. I was going to say you were, you
3:42
were a witness to one of them, spoiled as everybody this is
3:46
going to be. I'm going to drop the single
3:50
worst conventional. Appearance I've ever seen in any
3:55
convention, and I'm not even going to say who it is.
3:58
We'll wait till we're in the episode and this particular
4:00
actor or actress appears. This is, this is what you got to
4:05
look forward to. Who's it going to be events now?
4:09
I bet everyone's going now as the Clyde Swift.
4:14
He gets that interview in Doctor Who Magazine.
4:17
All I can say is get down. And I say get down, yeah.
4:22
Rock'n'roll. Whoa, yeah, go for it.
4:27
OK. But before now, listen you guys,
4:29
sorry, I missed, sorry. Don't waste you alone, Pretty
4:34
weird things going on out here, sorry.
4:39
Oh my God, we're born this time, not tear my.
4:45
OK, before we devolve into high camp madness and anecdotes, as
4:51
is all want, would you care to explain?
4:55
Because I'll sit you off my This is possibly my favorite classic
4:59
Who story. That's how high this is for me.
5:02
So if you could just give a brief explanation as to why you
5:05
hold in such high esteem and then I'll do the same.
5:09
Well, I think part of it was when I was growing up and
5:13
watching Doctor Who, I always thought the darts win every
5:17
episode. I was little.
5:19
The first story I ever watched was Destiny of the Darts, so I
5:21
thought the darts win everyone. So this was a very, very, very
5:24
early one for me when I was a kid.
5:27
I loved it because it was lots of Alex emanating people and
5:30
lots of, you know, button ducks basically.
5:34
But the more I watch this and the older I get, more, I realize
5:38
it's just a really fantastic script.
5:40
And it's Doctor Who doing quite dark story and there are loads
5:45
of things in it. And to work so well in a Doctor
5:50
Who story. I mean, I'm spoiler alert, you
5:53
haven't watched the story, but I hope you would have.
5:56
But like, the whole thing of recycling dead bodies into food
6:01
for people, like that's a horrible idea.
6:04
And having a DJ for dead people, that's a yes idea.
6:09
Like, it's just so, so bonkers, but it's also really, well,
6:14
really well done. Production values of it are
6:17
high, very high. Graham Harper directs
6:21
magnificently. And it is also, I think, got one
6:23
of the best guest casts in whom personally, and the Daleks
6:29
actually are in it. They're actually doing stuff and
6:32
they're quite scary. And anyway, I've talked too
6:34
long. No, no, you haven't at all.
6:36
Often there, that's. I couldn't disagree with any of
6:39
that. I think all I could probably add
6:41
to that without sort of repeating what you said, is it's
6:45
one of those unusual Doctor Who stories that sort of carves out
6:48
a corner of the universe. And we're sort of getting a bit
6:51
of a peek into all these different lives that are going
6:54
on and all the politicking. And you know, you've got all
6:59
these different brilliant double acts, these great characters.
7:03
There's a central idea of people being turned into food, which
7:09
fuels the story. That's why Natasha and Gregory
7:13
are there. Obviously that's the great
7:15
healers there. That's his big scheme for for
7:18
marketing in the universe. That's why Cara and what's his
7:23
name, Vogel. I'm trying to kill him.
7:24
That's why I'll see him. Bostock.
7:26
I'll go in because he's made a success of it and I was saying
7:32
to to Mark when we're watching this that.
7:35
You really don't need the Doctor and Perry in this for this story
7:39
to succeed. And for once, I would normally
7:42
say that's a weakness. For once, I think it's a
7:45
strength. And I think when the Doctor does
7:46
enter the story, he's brilliant, and so is Perry as well.
7:49
And they're actually given. I think his confrontation with
7:52
Davros is potentially his best scene in his entire run, and
7:56
Perry's given some of the best material as well.
7:58
But this course stands up as a, I want to say, a piece of drama,
8:02
a piece of sort of macabre. Comedy.
8:06
Horror, Definitely. In its own right.
8:09
And you're right, it looks amazing.
8:11
I think the energy in it the Graham Harper brings is
8:15
astonishing. What's astonishing is that this
8:18
was the last story before the show was put on hiatus, just as
8:23
they were finding their groove in 22.
8:26
And you know, and it went out of a massive high.
8:29
It's a crying shame, really, it is.
8:32
And I agree with what you're saying about the Doctor.
8:35
I know a lot of fans day at night this time because the
8:36
Doctor won't turn up for quite a while and we'll get into it more
8:39
when we talk about it. But actually, I think it works
8:42
really well actually. But it's it's it's a slow burner
8:46
really and you've got the whole world setting up and the whole
8:49
world building. And for for most of part, one
8:53
really is meeting all these characters.
8:56
And I think once like you say the Doctor arrives it's fall
8:59
into best performance even though.
9:02
So I was going to say it wouldn't work if those
9:05
characters weren't as good as they are and they weren't as
9:07
well cast as they are. Because you've got other stories
9:09
in this season where the Doctors don't turn up for a while and
9:12
it's a bit tedious. Because what's going on is time
9:14
Lash or something like that actually had quite a lot of Time
9:16
Lash. But because because the world
9:20
that's being painted is so interesting, you're just happy
9:23
to spend time there, whether the Doctor's there or not.
9:26
Definitely, definitely. And that's all.
9:27
I also think down to the actors who are playing those roles.
9:30
They're all have an aware of a time in it.
9:34
It's also really, it's very gracious.
9:38
Very. Adult moments and it has her
9:40
great laughs as well. And also, what other show would
9:44
you play a DJ for? Dead people I can't think of.
9:48
You don't get around casualties, you know what I mean?
9:51
You should. You should.
9:54
And it's tragic as well. What about?
9:56
OK, what about Tassenbeka? Get into her.
10:01
We're going to leave that for when we start the episode
10:03
because. But you know, I'm going to.
10:04
Fight for Jenny Tomlin because I know you and I have spent the
10:08
last couple of years. Ripping this performance and
10:11
doing dreadful impressions of it in conventions, but she's kind
10:15
of supposed to be the ugly duckling, isn't she?
10:17
That's the idea, Is she's this unloved character that's a bit
10:21
worthless and a bit pathetic. Well, I can't think of anyone
10:24
bet cast for that role. Can I just say when Joe says
10:29
really bad, terrible impressions.
10:30
And that's brilliant impressions.
10:31
OK, thank you. Yes, I agree.
10:36
Unbelievable. Especially amazing in a lunch
10:38
queue at a convention. All right, What you need is what
10:44
you need, you know. Shall we?
10:46
Should we press play on episode one and see where this
10:49
astonishing story takes us? I think we should.
10:52
Let's let's start it because oh God, I'm so excited.
10:56
Why don't you count as in I'll go 321 go?
11:05
So you are how old when you saw this?
11:07
Probably about three or four. Or may I say, your parents are
11:11
very irresponsible. OK, My dad.
11:14
It was my dad and anything. Yeah, I don't know what it was.
11:19
I think I was just a kid. I thought the Daleks were in
11:21
every. I just assumed they were in
11:22
every story. I was like, I'll only ever watch
11:25
Dalek stories for a while. So all of like like,
11:29
Resurrection, Revelation, Remembrance, Planet were all the
11:32
stories that I watched first because because they had Daleks.
11:37
Were you disappointed when you found that?
11:38
Otherwise? Really, I don't think.
11:41
But this is. But then I think these are the
11:43
ones I enjoyed more as a kid. David.
11:47
Yeah. No, I.
11:50
Is this the best looking TARDIS materialization we have ever
11:53
had? I think it's look at that it's I
11:56
remember them saying about the snow.
11:59
How? How effective does that look,
12:01
considering it wasn't supposed to be?
12:03
Harper says that oh God, you're so angry because we couldn't go
12:06
to all the locations that we wanted to.
12:08
And then he's doing the commentary can stuff it.
12:11
It looks amazing, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:14
And and what we would One of the things I will say that it's an
12:17
advantage in the story which possibly isn't in the rest of
12:20
the season. I sometimes don't think the five
12:23
minute episodes work, especially in a lot of season 22 when the
12:29
box set came out, I really watched the whole of season 22
12:32
and some of the stories. 45 minutes does not work this.
12:35
It races through a faith I also think highlight of showing the
12:40
quality of what good is because say to Doctors for example, it's
12:47
a great story but it does, it does drag 45 minutes per
12:51
episode, whereas this zips through.
12:53
Well, to pat out 345 minute episodes, he has to do lot.
12:57
I think there's like a 10 minute dialogue scene in episode one of
13:00
the Two Doctors and you just wouldn't have TV like that.
13:02
Now do you know what this does? Actually, this does something
13:05
very similar to Do you like the Romans?
13:09
I've watched it in years, but it is fun, isn't it?
13:12
Well, it does something very similar because the Romans has
13:15
four sub four plots going on, one for each of the regulars,
13:18
right This story has. About, I think it's about 5 or 6
13:24
pairings of characters and we keep coming back to them.
13:28
So the story feels incredibly pacing because and each time we
13:32
come back to them, it inches along a little bit more.
13:35
Definitely. Definitely, yeah.
13:38
And what do you think of the blue?
13:40
Mouthless. He looks very striking.
13:42
He should have kept. It probably should have kept it,
13:45
Yeah, he should have. Although, I don't know, you
13:47
ballooned out a bit in 23. You would have looked a bit like
13:51
Donald, wouldn't he? Costume, why don't you?
13:55
I think, yeah, Nicola Bryan's a beautiful woman, but she does
13:58
look a bit padded out there. She probably had.
14:00
She probably had paint warmers or something on, didn't she?
14:03
She probably. OK, so come on, was they shot?
14:07
But this is the thing. There go on.
14:09
I was just saying, this is the thing that they were in Panther
14:14
at the time of doing this, which is why they're in episode one.
14:16
They're only filmed because they were on stage in Cinderella, so
14:21
that's why they weren't in this episode as much as they should
14:25
have been. Oh, here we go.
14:26
Sorry. Lovely, lovely.
14:29
Sorry. What were you going to say?
14:34
Well, I was. Going to say, well, we've
14:35
started. With the 6th Doctor and Perry
14:38
and it's quite nice to have a scene with the minute.
14:40
Don't get used to them, cuz I ain't going to be around much,
14:43
but maybe we should start with Colin and Nicola then and
14:47
experiences of meeting them. I mean I think Colin, Colin is a
14:52
great ambassador to the show recently.
14:54
I mean he's just, I have, I have met him more times than I've had
14:58
hot dinners. But he is, he's always lovely.
15:02
He's always charming and he has you know he's always been there
15:05
and supported when some of the other doctors haven't.
15:08
Let's face it. And I think, you know fans
15:12
generally love him and I think he's, yeah, I think he's lovely.
15:14
I think he's such a great man and always nice to chat to and
15:19
Nikola is the same. Nikola I've met quite a few
15:22
times and she's always the same, always very chatty and unlike
15:27
the man on screen at the moment. Okay.
15:30
So we started positive with your.
15:31
Recollections of Colin and Nicola.
15:33
What about Clive Swift? Well, this is a story.
15:38
Oh, there she is. Look at her.
15:40
There's. Jenny, Tommy, There's going to
15:42
be a lot of fun. God.
15:46
So this is a quick this is like a there's going to be lots of
15:48
anecdotes in this book, in this story.
15:51
It was lovely. Anyway, so the year Voyage of
15:55
the Dam was being broadcast. A couple of days before the
15:57
Voyage of the Dam was being broadcast, I swift forward to a
16:00
show where I lived called Richard Bucker Presents and it
16:06
was celebrating his life. So I went along.
16:08
The show was dreadful. Can I just add, the show was
16:11
dreadful. At the end of the show he goes,
16:13
oh and don't forget to watch me and Doctor Who on Christmas Day
16:16
because I'm in it with Tyler and all this.
16:18
It was really easy, you know, picking himself up.
16:22
And then he said all afterwards, I'll be exciting.
16:25
So we were queuing out to get his autograph and I presented
16:29
him a picture of Mr. Copper. It was that it was the promo
16:33
shot that, I don't know if you remember, but they released
16:35
promo shots with all the guest styles in it.
16:37
And that was one of them. And he looked at it and he went,
16:39
where did you get this from? And I said, oh, I got it off the
16:42
website. Well, they shouldn't have my
16:44
image. How dare they?
16:46
No. And I went, well, I said it was
16:49
just, well, I'll be in touch with them because actually I'll
16:51
be suing them for a lot of money.
16:52
That's not, that's not okay. And then I went and said, oh,
16:56
could you sign something else for me?
16:57
I was quite young and I just say I was probably about 12 or 30.
17:00
I said, oh, would you sign this? And he went, no, you've had
17:02
enough now. And now fuck off.
17:04
No, he didn't. He did.
17:08
So then I walked away. And then this lady, this lady
17:12
who was like running the theater production, came over to me and
17:14
my dad and went, he had a lovely time.
17:16
Did you get everything you wanted?
17:17
And I said all, No, Mr. Swift wouldn't sign this for me.
17:20
And she went, oh, no, don't get it done.
17:22
Free, lovely. He was absolutely lovely to her.
17:24
But yeah, he was. So he was like, about
17:27
everything. I'm about all the cows, yeah.
17:29
So that that's. That that is not an uncommon
17:32
experience, no. I mean, you've read DWF.
17:37
Yeah, there's much more to life than this Doctor Who will.
17:40
You know, it was, it was it was one of those moments that you
17:46
remember more because of how nasty he was.
17:49
Then you remember meeting people like that than the nice ones.
17:52
Whilst we're on it, I might as well I should mention this
17:55
because he doesn't appear for very long.
17:57
Ken Barker plays the mutant who was a very good friend of my mom
18:00
and dad's because my dad used to be magician, as was Ken Barker.
18:05
So my dad and mom used to meet him a lot, and they were doing
18:07
magic events and stuff and I sadly never got to meet him.
18:10
But they said he was the nicest man you could have ever have
18:13
met. And yeah, he, I think it was a
18:17
thing he did on the side. I think he had some big
18:20
Hollywood films but was a magician when he wasn't working.
18:23
Wow. Well.
18:24
I'll tell you what, he's fucking gay.
18:26
He rolling about and that snowed, like, whoa, yeah, I
18:28
mean, I wouldn't have done that. Do you know what I find baffling
18:33
is how Graham Harper genuinely brings dynamism to action
18:37
sequences and Doctor Who. He did the same thing in case of
18:39
Anderson. You remember in episode four
18:41
with that gunfight with the Doctor running, just to make it
18:45
feel really done in a way that most Doctor Who directors failed
18:48
dismally. Yeah, definitely.
18:50
And he directs. I think that's what I remember
18:53
Peter Davidson saying. What's so different about Graham
18:55
Harper is he doesn't just put camera in one place and that's
18:58
it. He it's you see it a lot on
19:00
this. There are shots where the Daleks
19:01
come. You see the ice talk coming into
19:03
view. And I remember, but I think it
19:06
was when we were at the convention, he was sort of
19:08
saying I was trying to make Daleks more frightening.
19:10
So I was using different camera angles, you know, filming them
19:13
from above, from below, sorry. And in this it shows how
19:18
powerful they are and quite how good he is to.
19:22
What was really apparent listening to the commentary and
19:26
watching the documentary was how he was involved in every part of
19:29
this production. Like, finally, The Who does the
19:33
music for This Roger Lim. Roger Lim, finally, he's
19:37
delivering decent music for the show and that's because Graham
19:39
Hopper is going, this is where I want music and this is what I
19:42
wanted to sound like. You know, he's on the floor.
19:44
He's actually directing all the actors on the floor and giving
19:47
them a ton of energy and all of the actors on the documentary
19:50
going. He was there like a madman.
19:52
We were feeding off his energy. He had a passion for it.
19:55
So suddenly we had a passion for it.
19:58
I just don't think there was another director doing this in
20:01
the 80s. And I think and you've you've
20:04
probably noticed this. So there were a lot of direct
20:06
because at that time he was just like oh Doctor Who, that's what
20:09
it was. You know they they thought of it
20:11
just as a job. I mean Peter Moffett was bless
20:13
him, who didn't really kind of think of it as much particularly
20:20
we'd probably much rather be directing all Creatures Grant
20:23
and small. But with Graham Harper, it
20:25
always felt like, and even now he's so passionate about talking
20:28
about it and like you say, bringing so much energy into it
20:31
and and making and the same as getting the best out of people,
20:35
you know, getting the best out of the sets, the costumes, the
20:38
actors, everything and keeping it.
20:42
Doesn't it at its absolute best? Exactly, exactly, yeah.
20:47
And I think it's both of these are possibly this and Cable
20:51
probably the best directed classic stories have you.
20:55
I put remembrance up there as well because that's very well
20:57
directed, but especially in the 80s those of, for me, the best
21:02
directed stories. Sorry, I hate to have sex.
21:07
It is a fact. You know that when you are in a
21:09
relationship with a Doctor Who fan and you and I both know
21:13
something about this, that one opinion and things could never
21:17
be the same again, you know? Well, when we were watching
21:22
this, Mark turned to me and he went, Graham Harper is the best
21:24
director of Doctor Who ever. And I was a meet because
21:27
obviously I want to disagree with him immediately.
21:29
And and then I went, I was just stopped and I went, no, you're
21:32
right, he is. And even his new series stuff if
21:37
you if you take that. Everybody talks about didn't
21:40
stay stolen. Earth turned, Yeah.
21:42
Water. The Mars.
21:43
Water. The Mars.
21:44
Dead. Yeah, yeah.
21:46
And I don't think you've had that since, really.
21:50
And he's. Got a pace about him.
21:53
It's like dynamism in his direction and I I met him
21:57
recently at the at an event and even things that are not
22:01
related. He directed to couples episodes
22:02
of Inside #9 which I love and he was so passionate about talking
22:07
about that it's it was the episode that he did was a
22:09
Christmas. It said that was must be like a
22:12
horror bee movie, but he was talking to me like that about
22:17
isn't it brilliant? Is it the one with Ruva Lenska?
22:19
Have you seen it? Yeah.
22:21
He directed that well before with that he was, he was, it's
22:26
great, isn't it? He was talking about how, you
22:29
know, he would say to people, right, what can we put in here
22:31
that makes it look rubbish? So things like when the cameras
22:34
come in to chat and stuff, he would all go right, right.
22:37
Well, you know you you do this so that that looks like that
22:41
this has gone into. And he was getting people
22:43
involved. And he even said to the actors
22:45
that if you want to say that line really badly because
22:48
obviously it's supposed to be a B movie, you say it really
22:50
badly, tell me what you want. And I and I think that's
22:53
brilliant. And whereas a lot of other
22:54
directors come in, they know what they want, they don't.
22:57
Well, like we can see with Casey Vanzani and Revelation of the
23:00
Daleks and it's new series stuff that he can produce extremely
23:04
polished, fantastic television to make an episode of something
23:11
that looks deliberately bad, deliberately acon athletes.
23:15
But so the audience knows it's deliberately bad rather than
23:18
just going wow, this is really badly directed.
23:22
That's a real skill, the master class.
23:24
It's a master class and it's pretty.
23:26
Funny that, that there's a sequence where they're about to
23:28
have dinner. No, they're having.
23:30
Dinner and the camera comes in and they're all just paused,
23:34
waiting to eat their food. And they're not eating and they
23:38
never eat, though, do they? That's the thing.
23:39
They just cut their food up. They don't actually ever eat the
23:42
food. And yet, you know what, David?
23:44
I think the final scene of that episode is one of the scariest
23:48
things I've ever seen on television.
23:50
I won't give it away, but if anyone's not seen it, here we is
23:54
Alexisel doing this. With the Met with you, my friend
23:59
Free, you get down after I get down.
24:02
If you haven't seen it, watch it.
24:04
Basically, I was going to say Alexisel.
24:07
I think he's brilliant, Alexisel.
24:10
I love the stories about him delivering this.
24:12
Very uncharismatic before. Yeah, J&T going.
24:16
Oh my God, we might have to recast.
24:18
And then he gets to the studio and just bursts into life.
24:22
And it's it's really funny what Jake, because I read in things
24:25
that he was such a big Doctor Who fan and he was, he was so
24:27
desperate to get it right. But that's how he works.
24:30
He's such a perfectionist. And then he comes up with
24:32
something like this, and in the second episode, you know, when
24:35
actually he's a bit more shy and reserved, it's.
24:38
It's really new ones, isn't it? When he's with Sherry, sorry.
24:42
When he's with hero, Yeah. Girlfriend, yeah.
24:46
Do you know what? This So I got a question of
24:48
this, but this whole bit where he goes on about the cured Beck
24:52
syndrome years ago, I wonder what he's really doing with the
24:54
money. Okay.
24:55
Here's my question for you. Where?
24:58
The fuck has this Eric's award been hiding for the last five
25:02
fucking seasons? No, no, it's it's, it's, this
25:07
was, it's what's so odd as well, because if you look at Harry
25:10
Saywood, I think is a great writer.
25:13
His stories that he's written like Earth Shock and Asian,
25:19
maybe not so much resurrection, that's a bit, but that they're
25:24
quite good scripts. Whereas I just feel like with
25:26
this, I don't know what happened, but suddenly I don't
25:30
know what it was, if it was just that he hadn't written the show
25:33
for a while or I don't know. I don't think it's a coincidence
25:37
that him and Robert Holmes were having a very close friendship
25:40
at this point, that Robert Holmes has delivered Case
25:42
Andrazani. And I'm almost willing to bet
25:46
he's looking over his shoulder and saying, you know, because
25:50
this is pure Robert Holmes, the things I said earlier, the
25:53
double axe carving out a corner of the universe and such vivid
25:57
detail, that's exactly what Robert Holmes does at his best.
26:01
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I've got a question for you
26:05
now. Now we've seen her a little bit
26:06
and we've not really discussed them up.
26:09
Who's that now? But hey, Tomasy, and this is a
26:13
genuine question, right? And this is not me taking piss.
26:17
Do you think it's a good performance from her?
26:21
I think, I think she's, I think it.
26:26
It Oh my God, I can't get. My I think it translates really
26:30
well on the screen. I think she's probably a little
26:32
lost in the studio. I'm wondering what the fuck
26:35
she's involved in. But I think she's supposed to be
26:39
playing someone totally pathetic.
26:41
Yeah, and she absolutely has the acting chops to do that Now.
26:46
Take about what you will. No, that's that's that's a very,
26:51
that's a very distinguished answer.
26:53
She's supposed to be awkward. And she is, Yeah.
26:56
Trouble is, she's awkward In any performance I've ever seen her
26:59
in. I don't think she.
27:00
I don't think she could probably give a properly nuanced
27:04
performance. You've seen her Emmerdale clips,
27:07
then? Go on, go on.
27:12
I'll wait until she's on back on screen.
27:15
I'll leave. I'll leave the viewers one thing
27:17
more. See, it's just because I think
27:20
she's terrible. But I think, and I mean this in
27:24
the nicest possible way, I think because everyone around her is
27:28
so good, It's not. If everyone around her had not
27:33
been as good as they are, she might have got away with it, if
27:36
that makes sense. But because everyone around her
27:38
is like, brilliant, you know, Elena, Bron, Clive Swift, Lex
27:44
Desel will import. They're all absolutely giving it
27:48
their all, but it does feel like she's not really.
27:53
Yeah, she's not great, really. In the commentary, right, this
27:58
is a genuine anecdote, he says. I I feel as if she was a little
28:02
bit lost on the set, the scenes where she was down in in the
28:05
Davros's lair with me, she wasn't acting as if she was
28:09
afraid at all. And he goes, and you know what I
28:11
think initially, She genuinely. Thought that was what I looked
28:15
like. Rather than I was in a costume,
28:20
I remember, I remember asking you because I've got my Tasmbeka
28:23
socks, I've got my. Tasmbeka coasters.
28:27
Thanks to you, I'll see her every day.
28:29
I will have a cup of tea in the morning and I, I said to Terry,
28:35
my lawyer, I asked her about her and he said all the things that
28:37
he did with her was like playing.
28:39
It was like having a tennis match for treacle.
28:41
He was giving it, he was giving it all that.
28:44
And that's how she responded was yeah.
28:48
No, no. I think if she was playing any
28:50
other role apart from being the ugly duckling, I think it would
28:55
just bomb. But I think because that's kind
28:58
of who she was and that's. What she's playing it.
29:02
It works. It works for me and I.
29:05
Think it's very funny because she's so open.
29:10
I just think. I just think she sticks out
29:12
because everyone around is so good.
29:13
I think had they asked people that weren't as good as the
29:17
actors that they got, she might have got away with it, but.
29:19
Imagine if she'd been in time. Lash her and Paul Darrow
29:22
together. She could have been veena,
29:24
couldn't she? No, we're edging towards the
29:29
oblivion. There's there's a comment.
29:35
There's a story that Trevor Cooper tells on the commentary
29:39
that she was quite a heavy smoker.
29:42
And there was a there was a moment where one day he walked
29:46
into the rehearsal, he was as a BBC and now having breakfast and
29:50
he said just as I was about stuck in my full English
29:52
breakfast. But suddenly he heard this and
29:58
it was Benny coming in after having a looks like and
30:00
apparently you're going to say what, but apparently having
30:03
Clive Swift didn't get on. Clive Swift did not like her
30:07
particularly. Yeah, well, this.
30:11
Is a great segue I think into talking about.
30:16
Someone who's on the screen. That's Natasha.
30:19
Who and what's the actress's name?
30:22
Bridget. Bridget Lynch Bloss.
30:26
Bridget Lynch. If you guessed Bridget Lynch
30:29
Bloss, you guessed her as the as the person who was awful, then
30:34
give yourself a point. I don't think anyone would, but
30:39
before I say this, I do want to say I think she gives a good
30:42
performance in this. I thought she did till I met
30:45
her. Joe's going to explain the story
30:51
because he explains it much better than I do.
30:52
We're having a marvelous time at the Pandorica convention in
30:56
Bristol and she comes in and Graham Harper's late for the
30:59
panel. And so we're sort of right at
31:02
the back of the where the seats are in the audience and she's
31:06
right up front. And this poor feller
31:08
interviewing her. Who was interviewing her, John,
31:12
I think it was. Yeah, well, he's given her all
31:14
these feed lines, all these questions, and she's given
31:18
single monosyllabic answers. I'm just cutting the
31:20
conversation dead. She ain't interested at all, I
31:23
swear. At one point she even said, oh,
31:25
I'm only here to see Grandma. I get a bit of work out of this.
31:29
Or something like that. She did, she did, she did.
31:31
And she made a COVID joke. I remember that as well.
31:33
And you know, what's it like working with the Daleks?
31:35
Yeah, right. Like, you know, you couldn't do
31:37
nothing with it. Okay.
31:38
Fine. Let's put it out to the
31:39
audience. So my friend David here, who's
31:41
always the first, his hand in the air to say ask a question to
31:45
a celebrity, go on. And can I just say just, I was
31:49
very excited to meet her. Because I've got to the stage,
31:51
because I've done so many conventions over the years that
31:54
it's, you know, it's great to be cool and all that, but it's when
31:56
they get people that I and stories that I like, I get very
31:59
excited to meet and carry on the story.
32:02
So he puts his hand up and asks asks the question.
32:05
What? Was it like to work with Jenny
32:08
Thomason? Well, the atmosphere of the
32:11
entire room went cold, as if somebody had died.
32:16
She goes right through the audience because we're right at
32:19
the back and she's right at the front.
32:21
What do you mean by that? What are you saying?
32:24
She was mentally ill? You know what?
32:26
What are you saying about her, Lala?
32:29
And David, I've never ever seen you lost the words like you
32:34
didn't know what to say, did you?
32:36
Or how to react. No, it was it was the fact
32:39
because she said, she said that and I went, oh, she's like, why
32:44
do you want to know? And I said, well, I because I I
32:47
like her as an actress And she just turned and went, well,
32:49
she's dead. And the guy doing the, the guy
32:53
doing the talk went well. I think David just wants to know
32:55
because she's died, what would she like to work with because it
32:59
would never get to meet her and she just went wish her she had
33:02
mental health issues. It was the end of the
33:05
conversation most. Awkward moment I could ever
33:08
imagine in a convention. And you know what?
33:11
She's being and after that I mean and.
33:12
Put it on a bit, you know, and be there for the fans.
33:15
And she just, she just laid into it.
33:17
It was terrible. It was.
33:20
It was only when Graham Harper turned up that she was a bit
33:22
more. But I will.
33:24
I will say it was because I was so excited about seeing her for
33:28
the rest of the day. I just like just did not care
33:33
about seeing her whatsoever. But I felt like I kind of got my
33:36
own back a little bit because later on in the day they had a
33:39
revelation of the Daleks, which I got.
33:42
It's very hard for Colin Baker and brigitly lost.
33:47
I know Colin had just turned up to the convention and the doors
33:51
open to the lift and he comes out and he's being well.
33:54
Hello, hello everyone. And they say, oh, Colin, you
33:57
know, this is the photo shoot area.
33:59
And he goes straight over to Grandma Harper and says, oh,
34:00
hello Graham, lovely to see you again.
34:02
All so lovely. And then he turns to Bridget and
34:06
he goes, oh hello, are you having a lovely time at the
34:08
convention? Have you been here all weekend
34:10
thinking she's a fan? To which Graham Harper says no,
34:14
no, this is, this is Bridget. And he goes, who's Bridget?
34:17
His Bridget Lynch bloss. Who is in Revelation of the
34:20
Daleks? And he goes, you're a Bridget
34:22
Lynch plot. Hello.
34:24
And I just thought to myself, that'll teach you.
34:28
It's just that little bit in the mind of me that thought, yeah.
34:31
There is a salutary lesson he thought you were a fan.
34:34
Don't like? Go ahead and meet your heroes.
34:38
And all of that. I'm not sure Natasha was of you.
34:42
But no, she wasn't my hero. I didn't.
34:44
Have but you know, but approach with caution.
34:47
Sometimes, you know, sometimes you're going to have the best
34:48
time and sometimes you're going to be disappointed.
34:52
Yeah, I know she's not in the story, but that was the same
34:55
convention where we met Nitty Mccauliff, who had completely
34:58
was the best thing since sliced bread in my opinion, and then
35:01
had to have that suddenly. Anyone.
35:04
Who's not sure who that was? She's a fabulous woman in the
35:06
sound of drums who dies with the protracted scream with the
35:10
master shutting and closing the door, and she does the scream in
35:14
the convention for about 2 1/2 minutes.
35:17
I don't know when this is going out, but she's at a convention
35:19
on the 2nd on the 3rd of June in Milton Keynes.
35:22
Get a ticket just to say because it's worth it.
35:24
The hero Scream. Just for her now, look, I'm
35:27
going to quickly direct us back to the story for a second, just
35:30
for their atmosphere in these scenes.
35:34
It's under music. Well, yeah, yeah.
35:37
But I also think the set design in this in the catacombs.
35:41
It's such a clear because they said it was like a ring in the
35:45
studio, so you could just keep going around and around.
35:48
It always look like it was going off in different directions, but
35:50
it's pumped full of dry ice. The lights are low.
35:54
Don't you tell me they can't do atmosphere in the 80s.
35:56
They absolutely can, absolutely. And again, directing, he's
35:59
brought that really close up to the cameras.
36:02
If he's not, you know, put them far away, like I'm sure a lot of
36:05
the others do. You actually see the set, which
36:07
is very rare really. You see that it's shot from
36:10
above, it's just jam and. There's so much in the sets, in
36:14
Devers's letters, all those statues, you know, there's
36:17
flowers everywhere, Peacock feathers.
36:19
There's just so much to draw your own.
36:22
Oh my God, this sequence. Now, where Natasha, is this,
36:26
like, is this the one of the scariest moments?
36:30
I mean, psychologically I think and, but in terms of body horror
36:33
as well. Oh yeah, and and of what we were
36:37
saying, how great a performance he gives, even though he's only
36:41
tiny part in it. And that glass Daleks,
36:43
considering it's plastic, it looks amazing.
36:45
It looks like it's proper. So there's some pretty really
36:51
weird things going well there. Yeah, as you know.
36:57
David, we have snatchers in the complex.
37:01
Go on, go on. I can't remember the rest.
37:05
I just know because who knows where?
37:13
It is. It is really sick, isn't it?
37:15
A DJ? But again, it's a genius.
37:19
I do you think you know, it's such a fun idea.
37:21
You think, why would you ever do that?
37:23
But in no other program would you have a DJ for Deadly.
37:28
No. In fact, you know what?
37:28
The closest I've seen for a synergy between the dead and
37:32
comedy like this. Is 6 foot under.
37:35
In series one where they had throughout the season they set
37:38
in a Funeral Home and throughout the season they had these
37:41
brilliant comedy adverts for their Funeral Home going on
37:45
throughout the season. You know, get your caskets
37:47
cheap. Now and that, yeah, it was
37:49
really, really funny. And it was just sort of laughing
37:52
but going, should I be laughing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:55
And it's the same with that, really.
37:56
You laugh about it and you think, well, actually, hang on a
37:58
minute, that's not, yeah, this. This is what we're talking
38:01
about. I mean the makeup and everything
38:03
is. Throbbing organ on his head And
38:08
the teeth. And the teeth.
38:11
I mean, I know that's that's like the least impressive thing,
38:14
but like it's metal and like, it's just, yeah.
38:19
What what I really know is watching this back was how he
38:22
paced this scene. So yeah, both Harper, so the
38:27
music starts slowing bills and bills.
38:29
His performance starts slow. And he's Stengos, and he's a
38:33
little bit the Dalek. And then the Dalek starts taking
38:35
over and everything rises up to a massive crescendo, which is
38:39
her shooting him. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's one
38:44
of the best scenes in Classic Who I think.
38:46
Well, I remember when Doctor Who did an article on this and this
38:50
was in the top 20 best scenes. That's it.
38:54
I'm not surprised, not surprised, but it's a great
39:00
acting wise. It's a great example show.
39:02
Even though he doesn't have much, he still gives a brilliant
39:06
performance. He still does a you know and
39:09
considering his other Doctor Who roles, that actor, quite the
39:14
range. He's Osgood in the Demons, and
39:18
he's also in Robot. Is he Osgood in the demons?
39:24
Yeah, he is. I didn't know that.
39:26
No, I've learned something, yeah.
39:30
Yeah, OK. That's quite a different role,
39:35
quite a different. Role Yeah.
39:38
Oh, this is all really nasty. The way they're punched in the
39:41
stomachs and the knives come out, you know?
39:43
Oh, and the bit where they force the alcohol down his neck.
39:47
Oh, I mean that's Saturday daytime, if you mind 620.
39:52
No, I don't want. That you just You wouldn't have
39:54
it now, Elena Braun. Oh, this whole sequence now
40:00
she's brilliant. I think some of the.
40:02
Lines are a bit ripe. In this sequence, but these
40:06
actors, they they smooth them out and sell them.
40:11
But they're classic, you know, they're classically trained
40:13
actors, aren't they? I mean, God, Elena Braun.
40:16
I mean, he was, yeah, she she's magnificent in it and she's
40:21
having a well at the time. She's having the best.
40:23
She probably I know she hates Doctor Who.
40:26
And she hates talking about it. I have also discovered, but go
40:32
on, go on. Again, it's in that it's a stage
40:35
door. I was very, very young.
40:37
She came out and she was, she signed something for me, but she
40:42
she, she only signed it to David.
40:43
And I said Oh yeah, that's why I turned it.
40:45
And then she said I have done other things apart from Doctor
40:47
Who, you know, walked off. I was probably only about 10.
40:51
I was quite young, but you know. Yes, I think she's.
40:56
I think she's one of those that doesn't really.
40:59
I think, yeah. I don't think she grates it
41:03
highly in her career, shall we say.
41:05
Whatever. Sheila Hancock.
41:07
Particularly no. Sheila Hancock was lovely.
41:10
I met her. Sheila Hancock was the complete
41:13
opposite of her. Blimey, Blimey do.
41:16
You know what? Her costume.
41:17
Was based, yeah. I was watching this and
41:19
apparently her costume was based on.
41:23
The Wicked Witch in Snow White, a sort of the turban and I.
41:27
Can see that. And the eye, yeah, and the eye
41:31
may come. Well, I think it's on the behind
41:33
the sofa, Peach Davis says. She's wearing a lot of turbans
41:35
in those. Things Man, oh man.
41:39
The only thing she's. Classy though, isn't she?
41:43
She is. It must have been a bit of a
41:47
surprise when she was in it actually, I would think.
41:50
They're all these actors, really, because they're all
41:52
proper. You know, they they they're
41:54
classically trying, don't they? They, you know, happen for the
41:57
world. What's interesting is she came
42:00
back to do a big finish, didn't she?
42:01
She was in Lugoru, which was a Peter Davidson big fest in a big
42:06
role, and apparently she came to the studio well prepared.
42:10
She started the script, She was playing a werewolf.
42:12
She goes, no, you're not doing the sound effects.
42:14
I'm going to be the werewolf when I'm the werewolf.
42:20
I'll have to listen to that. I'll have that.
42:21
I'll add that to my list. I'll add that to my list.
42:24
Brilliant in it. She's as good in that as she is
42:26
in this. No, she's a she's classy.
42:31
She moves a lot of class to the to the population, Darling.
42:36
But don't you look at the fact that they sort of suggest, isn't
42:38
it, this is the whole business empire and she's, you know, that
42:43
which Stavros has established. And she's sort of, what's she
42:47
like, the marketing manager or something like that.
42:49
She's the one that's selling it to everybody, you know, and she
42:53
basically wants. To put also the throne.
42:57
Yeah, yeah. And and even though we don't, I
43:00
mean, we see that shot of, I believe, because of how good,
43:04
how much I believe this is a company.
43:06
You know what I mean? Like, you know, another two
43:08
stories where you see like one set and you think, Oh yeah, OK,
43:11
it's supposed to be a whole world, whereas I know we only
43:13
see one shot of it. But this I genuinely believe.
43:16
But again, I think that's down to how good the direction is
43:19
from from Graham. I also think once he's on screen
43:24
because it was shown up, this is terrible.
43:26
His best performance with Davro. On the TV on.
43:30
The Country Mall. Yeah, yeah.
43:33
I mean. To play Davros with loads of
43:35
humor. Yeah, yeah, and two Davrosses.
43:38
But. I just love it when he's sitting
43:40
there watching Colin Baker. And laughing his head off.
43:44
I think this is the bit, I think this is this is the bit coming
43:47
up, yeah, where he's he's going well.
43:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also as well, he's got some
43:53
cussing. I believe it was called
43:56
consumer. It was such a great line.
44:01
Yeah, but also as well, do you know, I really believe that
44:04
there is a back story with all these couples or senior and bus
44:07
stock with Kara and Vogel? Yeah, yeah.
44:12
Degree Tas and Beka and Joe Bell.
44:17
Tarkus and little. Yeah, all of them, I believe.
44:20
And I think that's it's there in the script, but it's there with
44:24
the chemistry between the actors as well.
44:26
Definitely, yeah, definitely. And even if they didn't get on
44:29
very well, here we go. This is the laugh.
44:35
Even if they didn't get on very well, The actors, it doesn't
44:37
show. On screen, it doesn't show.
44:39
But talking to Tarkus? So Trevor Cooper is a lovely
44:45
man. In 2015 Dimensions.
44:51
I did a version of Just a Minute because they used to have, you
44:55
know, the entertainment that they have, which you've been to,
44:57
and they're the ones you've been to really good fun.
45:02
But I have been to earlier conventions that were not great.
45:05
You'd sit in the bar and they'd have John Levin singing or
45:08
something like that. God no A fate worse than death.
45:12
Exactly. Yeah.
45:13
So I I was quite, I was quite borrowed of me, actually.
45:17
I sent an e-mail saying, look, have you ever thought about
45:22
doing something that just in it? Doctor Who convention?
45:26
I said because I think it would work really well.
45:28
And I got an e-mail back going, yeah, all right, you organized
45:30
it. You organized it and we'll do
45:33
it. Okay.
45:33
Fine. So they said, what do you want?
45:35
And I said, well, I'd like a few.
45:37
I had like 2 celebrities and two fans and then it would be some
45:40
of it would be Doctor Who related, some of it wouldn't and
45:42
you know just like just a minute work the convention and they
45:46
said they said all. So we've got Trevor Cooper is
45:50
involved. He wants to do it and Daphne
45:55
Ashbrook is going to do it and I thought.
45:57
Great, I'll sing into my heart now.
46:01
For what Daphne Ashbrook had no, I had never heard of just a
46:04
minute. But she was like, I'll do it.
46:06
The next thing I know, I'm, I'm walking around the convention
46:08
and the guy who runs the convention got a bit of a
46:11
problem. I just know what's that went
46:12
well. Nicola Bryant has heard about it
46:16
and she wants to join in as well.
46:17
Is that all right? And I said, yeah, of course.
46:19
It's absolutely fine. I said I just thought, can I
46:21
just go and meet them just so that, you know, like just to
46:25
introduce myself because I don't want to like and do get on stage
46:28
and. You know, like, oh, here we are.
46:31
So I went and met them and Nicola and Daphne and Trevor
46:34
were lovely. And then Nicola said, oh, Colin,
46:36
you're doing it as well, aren't you calling school?
46:39
And Colin was like, what? And he said, yeah, you're doing
46:41
this just a minute thing. And he went, yeah, all right,
46:42
I'll do it. So suddenly I had 4 lectures and
46:46
two fans blessed. The two fans were going, well,
46:49
we don't have to do it if you don't want to.
46:50
And I was like, well, no, I want to.
46:52
I want you to be a part of it. Because during the end we had
46:54
six. Like 3 members of Revelation
46:58
that's doing just a minute. It was great and I'm happy to
47:01
say Trevor Cooper won. Oh, I was about to say.
47:04
I know this is a revelation of the Darlex commentary, but how
47:07
did Daphne Ashbrook do? Do you know, I sat next to her.
47:11
Obviously she did all right. Once she'd started getting into
47:16
it, and once she started like, getting what the rules were, she
47:19
did all right and I helped her out a little.
47:23
But. But yeah, I know it was good.
47:25
It was good of, yeah, she, she's great.
47:28
Great. I love her.
47:28
Yeah. No, Trevor Cooper won it and he
47:29
was absolutely lovely. He's such a nice man.
47:32
I'll tell you a story about Ashbrook.
47:35
Sorry, I want to go way off. Revelation now, but so right
47:38
when I was courting with Mark, I wanted to gift him something
47:42
special. So I've got, I got that because
47:45
he loves TV movies. So I gifted him a Daphne
47:49
Ashbrook cameo. But I wanted her to sort of
47:52
declare my love. So she did a video, right?
47:56
She's going. Hi, Mark.
47:58
OK, so I've been thinking about this for ages, how to do this
48:01
declaration of love from Joe So and I thought I was doing love
48:05
song and I'll do a love poetry reading and none of that was
48:09
really coming out so so she just did this massive declaring that
48:13
was the most funniest over the top.
48:16
I've ever seen Typical Man. I couldn't have just done it
48:21
lasting quietly. No, no, she was.
48:23
Oh, she she was brilliant on this.
48:25
Just a minute. Her and Nicola had a bit of a
48:27
fighting match because you know how it works.
48:29
Just a minute where they they're not allowed.
48:30
And it literally got to the point where I think Daphne was
48:33
going like repetition of a repetition of the You're getting
48:42
into the spirit of it and then. Some oh David DC really love
48:47
these scenes between Davros and Tassabika serve.
48:51
They work really well. They're total being and I should
48:55
allow you to become a Dalek. That's just enough that I can't.
49:01
I'm not good with the impression did the?
49:06
Impression, aren't I? It's.
49:08
Just another. Must be fulfilled through blood.
49:12
Oh man, the dialogue is ripe, isn't it?
49:16
It's very yeah, yeah. Mr. Children finally booted off.
49:29
Can I do, can I do one more anecdote?
49:31
Because then second episode will be no anecdotes.
49:33
No, I love her. Go on.
49:36
Another actor I've met in this story is Royce Mills who.
49:40
Is was was the loveliest and I I was I was collecting which
49:46
across very young and I went to see him to play probably only
49:49
about 8:00. I was quite young and it was
49:53
like Russ Abbott, Susan Penn Halligan Barry Howard Muddy, how
49:57
I and Royce Mills and I didn't care about any of those.
49:59
I wanted to meet Royce Mills because I was like Dalek anyway,
50:03
he came out the stage door. And he signed the stuff he
50:06
really, really loved. And the way I was with my mom,
50:09
he goes, oh, where are you going?
50:09
Where are you going now? Marks and Spencer just across
50:13
the Market Square, is it? Oh, I'll come with you.
50:16
And then he started shouting exterminate to everybody just to
50:18
make me laugh. So he was going to be going to
50:22
the place and people must have thought he was a right widow.
50:26
But it made me laugh so much as the kidneys going.
50:28
It's nice to meet you. See, That's the complete
50:32
opposite of Bridget. Bitch face, isn't it?
50:37
Richard. Bitch.
50:37
Yeah. Bridget.
50:38
Bitch face it was. Yeah.
50:40
Again. That's another one that I
50:42
remember, just cuz of how lovely this little last image I saw of
50:47
him was going at home. And I think he's an underrated
50:54
Dalek voice. I think he's great.
50:57
Why? Thought the Darla voices sound a
50:58
bit too humid in this, but actually.
51:02
Are are the Daleks? Are they humans?
51:06
Like have they come from humans in it?
51:08
He's turning into Daleks, isn't it?
51:10
So that's kind of the idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:13
Yeah. No, I I quite, I quite like his
51:15
voice. I know those people don't.
51:18
But this thing here I find very old, because Tarkas and Little
51:21
ultimately turn out to be the heroes of the peace.
51:23
And yet there is torturing, shoving alcohol down people's
51:27
throats and generally behaving in a very abusive manner.
51:31
And they don't die. They're the only characters that
51:32
don't die. Go figure.
51:35
That is a that is an unusual thing in an aerosol script.
51:38
If you survive, you must really like you do.
51:41
You think with that I was thinking about this before we
51:45
recorded. Do you think it's lazy writing?
51:48
Well, killing everybody off, yeah, for sure.
51:50
Because yeah. Because it happens, I think it's
51:53
worse in Resurrection of the Daleks.
51:54
I feel. I feel like, yeah, it's.
51:58
With Resurrection, it's like I don't know what to do, these
52:00
characters so they'll be exterminated.
52:02
It does happen a bit in this as well, which is a shame is there
52:06
are a lot of characters in this that could have survived.
52:09
But the difference, I think is they are all bumped off in
52:12
various spectacular and creative and true ways in like really
52:18
memorable scenes. And like you really care because
52:21
you care about these characters. But as in Resurrection, I just
52:23
feel like the cast is is vast and they're basically there to
52:26
be murdered. Yeah, that's true.
52:28
And Clive, another favorite of mine.
52:35
The other thing I find interesting about this story,
52:39
and I don't know if you've ever noticed this, is Clive Swift is
52:44
one of the only people, I think, who's in a Dalek story that
52:46
never meets a Dalek. Yeah, of course.
52:50
He never meets a Dalek and I don't.
52:52
There is another one I think does that in a bron.
52:54
Oh no, she doesn't meet the Dalek.
52:56
But yeah, it must be weird being.
52:58
Because, like, if it was me, right, if I was an actor and
53:01
they were like, you're gonna win a Dalek story, I'd be like,
53:02
right? OK, firstly, I want scenes with
53:04
Daleks, and secondly, I want to be extended.
53:06
And he doesn't get either of them.
53:09
No, Clive Smith is quoted as saying in the documentary.
53:12
It's the weirdest piece of entertainment he's ever taken
53:16
part in, and then it's very complimentary about pretty much
53:20
every. Level of the production and the
53:23
script and and just just that he loved playing this really
53:26
grotesque aesthetic man whose ego has gotten out of control
53:31
and you know, props to him. I think it's a great turn.
53:34
It's totally grotesque. It is.
53:37
Weirdly, he I'm the plays here, so it's believable.
53:44
That's quite a scale when you've.
53:47
Got. He plays it.
53:49
He's so yeah, he is. Considering how much I don't
53:52
like him in my life, he plays it so well.
53:54
And he gets some very funny moments in episode 2.
53:57
What is it? It would take a mountain to
53:59
crush an ego like yours. Are you picking your Nets?
54:05
Those rose red Ruby lips were made for kissing.
54:10
I love a woman who plays hard to get.
54:13
So vile so. We're at the end of the first
54:17
episode already. That's what I mean.
54:19
How? This story goes so far.
54:21
I don't know. I'm not a big fan of this
54:23
cliffhanger, I will say, but it's better than others.
54:28
I'm not. I don't know how I would have
54:29
where I would have cliffhanger, but.
54:32
Tell you a story about this cliffhanger.
54:36
I think you might. I might have told you, but I've
54:39
certainly said on Hamster before.
54:41
But when I watched this on the BBC, was it a BBC2 repeat in the
54:45
90s Revelation? Of that.
54:49
When I saw this right, I was so bewitched by this cliffhanger,
54:53
which is why it's important to me.
54:55
I spent the entire evening, right?
54:58
I went up because I had this sort of long, tall wardrobe that
55:01
was a bit wobbly and I was in my room and I was screaming that.
55:06
Didn't statue. And then throwing the wardrobe
55:10
on myself going. Well, my mum, come in the room
55:13
and go. What are you doing?
55:15
Well, just playing Doctor Who. Don't worry.
55:18
Bear in mind I was about 15 at this point.
55:22
No, I can. I can completely imagine all of
55:25
that. You know, I'd still do it now.
55:30
Yeah. I've got another question for
55:32
you about the story. Now we did, you might think we
55:35
didn't cover the story, but actually we did cover a lot of
55:37
elements of the story that we've been talking about, the
55:39
performance and the direction of that.
55:41
I want to ask you about the theme of death in this, and
55:46
whether that is an appropriate topic to base a Doctor Who story
55:50
around and sort of take the piss out of an explore.
55:54
And is it too much in a season where there's a lot of this
55:59
going on, a lot of sort of horror and body horror?
56:05
Personally, I don't know. I take the piss out of it.
56:11
Personally, I just think it's, I think, I think maybe it was in
56:15
the wrong season. I will say that because if you
56:17
look at the rest of the season, things like Benjamin from
56:20
Barros, seeing that attacking assignment, you know it's a bit
56:25
much, you know it's a little bit much, but I don't think it takes
56:29
the piss out of it. I think it's it's something that
56:33
Book Two has never done before, but I think it.
56:38
It does it really well to bring the aspect of how your family
56:44
members going to die. So you either pay for a lovely
56:46
funeral and they become a Dalek or they're going to get eat,
56:50
which I know this is going to sound really weirdly to say, but
56:52
I could imagine that happening. Not the darling bit, you know,
56:55
like turning your relatives into food.
57:00
I mean, you know, it's. Yeah, it's it's it's something
57:08
the Doctor Who has never done, and I don't think it's done it
57:10
since, has it particularly. But I can actually imagine this
57:12
happening and I know that's a really weird thing to say.
57:16
I'm. Laughing in some ways this is as
57:19
dark water and I know a lot of people had issues with dark
57:22
water and that sort of don't create and how that dealt with
57:25
death and death in heaven where all the corpses coming to life
57:28
again what? I think is interesting about
57:32
this, it's how it marginalizes death.
57:34
So we hear about somebody who's in tranquil repose, who's over
57:40
off, has taken all the money that could have cured them and
57:44
is having a high life. Whilst whilst he's stuck there
57:47
listening to a Lexi sale and we have come to see the Doctor's
57:51
friend and he's been turned into a Dalek.
57:54
And then we hear that everyone else has been turned into grub.
57:58
I mean, it's dog it, that is. And Natasha's Natasha's dad,
58:01
isn't it? I mean, he's that's the same
58:04
thing, isn't it? It's like she's finding out that
58:06
her dad is not. Akbar is dead, but it's been
58:08
turned into a darling rather than what they've said.
58:11
I mean to them, which I can't remember, but I think it's just,
58:14
isn't it? Like you just did a peaceful
58:16
death and you get like, I think they explore it more in the
58:19
second episode, but you know, you get a peaceful death and
58:23
then you get the DJ and stuff where she's the one finding out
58:25
all about it. I would say this is probably
58:27
darker than dark water, sure. Yeah, in some respects.
58:31
Because, like, the mystery it promises is what has happened to
58:35
Arthur Stengos. That's what are into the story.
58:37
That's why the doctors there, and I don't think in our wildest
58:41
dreams we would have come up with a solution.
58:44
Oh, he's in a Funeral Home where everybody is being turned into
58:48
grub. Yeah, yeah.
58:52
But I think it's, I think it's fantastic story.
58:55
I think it's such a. Great.
58:57
You know, say it's something that they've never done before,
58:59
and actually what a fucked up story it is, but what a great
59:02
story. You know, it's.
59:03
It's one that you think about. I can only think of one other
59:09
story that's married humor and sort of really grotesque horror
59:16
this successfully and you're going to tell me what it is?
59:19
Oh. No, don't say that.
59:22
Is it classic? Yeah.
59:25
No, I think the brain of Morbius is very funny and really sick.
59:30
And I think this is very funny, really sick as well.
59:33
Do you know I would put up there as well?
59:34
This is just me because I love this story.
59:36
To definitely break happiness control because that's quite
59:39
done and. Yeah.
59:42
There's a there's a lot of comic moments in it, and I think I've
59:45
said on Haps before, I hate it when people say I always puffy
59:51
and silly. And camp.
59:54
And I'm like, it's none of those things.
59:56
And it's the same with this story.
59:57
A little bit. People go, oh, don't like
59:58
revelation because it's silly and camp and not very good.
1:00:02
And you're like, it's the complete opposite of all of
1:00:04
that. Very, very.
1:00:07
But weirdly enough, that line between humor and horror is
1:00:10
something that Doctor Who can tiptoe through really well.
1:00:13
It doesn't happen very often, and I think it takes a prior to
1:00:17
get it right because I think sometimes it can go over a
1:00:19
Cliff, like the acid bath scene in Veges and Varos, you know,
1:00:24
like there's no subtlety in that at all.
1:00:26
The scene eyes horribly and the doctor makes a joke and it just
1:00:29
is, like really awkward. And the scene of in the fact of
1:00:34
Simon with the lip gets his hands you know where the you
1:00:39
know what I'm trying to say yeah.
1:00:41
I mean, it's. Yeah, yeah.
1:00:43
I think it's. I think it's mouthfulness.
1:00:48
I think it's marvelous too. And I think we should probably
1:00:50
skip into Episode 2. Oh yeah, yes.