Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / Navigating Trauma and Healing When Parenting a Child Who Misuses Drugs or Alcohol, with Christopher O'Reilly

Transcript

Navigating Trauma and Healing When Parenting a Child Who Misuses Drugs or Alcohol, with Christopher O'Reilly · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

0:01
Christopher: There's so many ways that stress enters our lives.
0:05
Christopher: And so if there's a stressful situation with your child, maybe there's aspects of that, that there's no quick fix, and it's going to be a process, but like, can you make sure to get enough sleep?
0:17
Christopher: Can you make sure to nourish your body with food?
0:21
Christopher: Can you make sure to find periods of time where you relax?
0:26
Christopher: It's one thing to have a child that is struggling and you have to deal with that.
0:31
Christopher: But if you have, in so many other ways, stress infiltrating your life in a way that's just going to make it so much harder to respond to the stressful situation that really matters.
0:53
Brenda: You're listening to HopeStream.
0:55
Brenda: If you're parenting a young person who misuses substances, is in a treatment program, or finding their way to recovery, you're in the right place.
1:03
Brenda: This is your private space to learn from experts and gain encouragement and support from me, Brenda Zane.
1:10
Brenda: You're host and follow mom to a child who struggled.
1:13
Brenda: This podcast is just one of the resources we offer for parents.
1:17
Brenda: So after the episode, head over to our website at hopestreamcommunity.
1:22
Brenda: org.
1:23
Brenda: I'm so glad you're here.
1:25
Brenda: Take a deep breath, exhale, and know that you have found your people.
1:30
Brenda: And now let's get into today's show.
1:33
Brenda: Hi, my friend.
1:33
Brenda: It is good to meet up here today.
1:35
Brenda: I imagine you have got so many things going on in your life.
1:40
Brenda: And even just today in your day.
1:43
Brenda: So the fact that you're here, you're taking a pause and all you do to listen is really significant and it means a lot to me.
1:51
Brenda: And of course it means a lot to your family.
1:55
Brenda: I hope too that as you're here doing your work, you are giving yourself a big, big pat on the back.
2:04
Brenda: I know it can be so easy to get down on yourself, wondering what more you could be doing.
2:10
Brenda: Thinking about who else you could call or tap into for help.
2:15
Brenda: You're probably navigating through, I don't know, insurance issues, trying to hold your marriage or your partner relationship together.
2:24
Brenda: Or maybe you're trying to find a marriage or partner relationship.
2:28
Brenda: Oh, and then there's your work, your career, your other kids, your parents.
2:33
Brenda: And holy cow, do you realize how much you're doing?
2:38
Brenda: I hope so.
2:39
Brenda: So before we dive into the conversation ahead, which is amazing.
2:44
Brenda: Please close your eyes, visualize, or think about one positive thing that is going on for you right now.
2:52
Brenda: It could be very tiny, but there's probably something positive that's going on and take three deep breaths.
3:01
Brenda: Pause the episode if you want to, but just take a moment to acknowledge your incredible hard work and express gratitude for the good.
3:14
Brenda: Okay, today's conversation is one that I believe is incredibly important for you to hear because no matter what stage of the roller coaster you're in, you've likely experienced some pretty significant trauma along the way.
3:29
Brenda: There's also a good chance that you've experienced trauma in your past.
3:33
Brenda: Maybe it was an unhealthy or unsupportive household, or maybe you had parents who struggled with their own substance use.
3:41
Brenda: You might come from a divorced or fractured family.
3:44
Brenda: Or, you lost a significant person in your life.
3:48
Brenda: There are just tons and tons of reasons why you might be impacted by trauma.
3:53
Brenda: And today we are talking all about it with Christopher O'Reilly.
4:00
Brenda: Christopher serves as the Vice President of Clinical Services for Milestones, which is the residential trauma program at OnSite.
4:08
Brenda: And if you haven't heard of OnSite, it's an organization that offers workshops, intensives, They have an intensive outpatient program for folks who are local in Tennessee, and then the residential trauma treatment program that Christopher runs.
4:25
Brenda: And these are all wrapped up in a world class hospitality experience.
4:30
Brenda: I have never been, but it is actually on my wishlist to attend one of their multi day intensives just to do some ongoing work for myself.
4:40
Brenda: Christopher has an extensive career running residential and outpatient programs, specializing in trauma, addiction treatment, and detox.
4:49
Brenda: He was at Karen Treatment Centers for almost 20 years, where he honed his administrative and clinical skills.
4:55
Brenda: overseeing the full range of operational and therapeutic functions in their residential setting.
5:01
Brenda: Christopher holds a master's degree in clinical counseling and his additional credentials include licensed professional counselor, certified advanced alcohol and drug counselor, certified clinical supervisor, certified sexual addiction therapist, Certified Multiple Addiction Therapist, and because that's not enough, he is also a Level 1 MBSR, which is Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction Instructor at Brown University.
5:30
Brenda: In other words, he's done a lot and knows a lot, and I was so grateful to get time with him to talk about his experience with trauma and addiction, and the fascinating way he started on his journey to recovery.
5:43
Brenda: It's pretty unique.
5:44
Brenda: www.
5:44
Brenda: brownuniversity.
5:44
Brenda: edu We talk about your nervous system, the role it plays in trying to protect you.
5:50
Brenda: We touch on why sometimes kids won't tell their parents about abuse they've experienced, and how for some people the substances they're misusing are actually what saved them from the effects of trauma in their life.
6:05
Brenda: This is such an important conversation.
6:08
Brenda: It may be a good way to begin to understand some of what you're seeing in your child, And I hope, hope, hope it encourages you to embark intentionally on your own healing process.
6:20
Brenda: We all need it.
6:21
Brenda: Take a listen to me and Christopher O'Reilly from Onsite's Residential Trauma Treatment Experience Milestones.
6:28
Brenda: Enjoy.
6:44
Brenda: Christopher, I'm so thrilled to have you here today and have this conversation.
6:49
Brenda: I, I've stalked Onsite.
6:53
Brenda: Honestly for so long like I always go to the website and then I hear people that have gone We have a member actually in hope stream community who just came back and i'm like, oh man I'm dying to get over there.
7:04
Brenda: So I gotta gotta get myself to tennessee.
7:07
Brenda: I apparently i've never been
7:09
Christopher: Yeah, you'll have to visit.
7:11
Brenda: Yeah Super excited to talk with you.
7:14
Brenda: I think you have such a beautiful perspective on so many issues that our listeners and our members in hope stream community You deal with just the realities of a very stressful time in life.
7:28
Brenda: Very stressful, especially when it's our kids.
7:30
Brenda: It's like, yeah, it takes the stress to a whole new level.
7:33
Brenda: So really, really excited to dive into that.
7:36
Brenda: Talk to us a little bit about the, the Christopher O'Reilly story, the 101.
7:41
Brenda: So we know what we're getting into.
7:43
Christopher: Yeah, sure.
7:44
Christopher: Sure.
7:44
Christopher: So I I'm from the Northeast born and raised in like central Pennsylvania.
7:49
Christopher: I had a great childhood.
7:51
Christopher: I had, you know, great parents.
7:53
Christopher: But there was addiction in my family.
7:55
Christopher: And it's, it's so funny because when someone initially asked you, like, how'd you get into this work?
7:59
Christopher: You talk about like wanting to help people and things like that, but then the more you learn, it's like, no, it's deeper than that.
8:07
Christopher: Right?
8:08
Christopher: Like most people that get into the healing profession are.
8:12
Christopher: on their own journey of healing.
8:14
Christopher: So for me, probably early teens started experimenting with drugs and alcohol and the experimentation, you know, progressed.
8:23
Christopher: And it was something where it really took me off track.
8:26
Christopher: You know, I was an athletic kid.
8:28
Christopher: I was a smart kid and, and I found myself sort of choosing, uh, you know, using and partying over sports and school.
8:38
Christopher: So Which ultimately led to even dropping out of high school, really on a path of destruction, which was, you know, when I reflect back on it, it feels like a miracle that things turned around.
8:50
Christopher: But ultimately, in my early twenties, I, uh, stumbled upon mindfulness meditation, and it was literally something that I just heard about.
9:03
Christopher: And I, it was one of those things where you read one book.
9:07
Christopher: And it just kind of lands with you in a way that leads you to read another book and it almost becomes just like a calling.
9:15
Christopher: So, I started practicing meditation regularly.
9:20
Christopher: I didn't know anybody else that did.
9:23
Christopher: And, very slowly but surely, like, some of my self destructive patterns started to subside and I found myself really, uh, interested in being still and noticing what was going on with me and, and just developing self awareness in that way.
9:42
Christopher: Which led me to getting a GED and, and, you know, getting into college and pursuing a career in therapy, uh, graduate school, the whole work.
9:55
Christopher: So it was really kind of, I even sit here today and I'm like, I still don't know how that happened, but I'm super grateful.
10:01
Christopher: You know?
10:02
Christopher: I spent the first 17 years of my career working in a really large non profit addiction treatment center in the Northeast.
10:10
Christopher: And it's probably one of the oldest treatment centers in the country.
10:13
Christopher: It's world renowned.
10:15
Christopher: Uh, it's called Caron Treatment Center.
10:17
Christopher: C A R O N.
10:18
Christopher: I did everything there from like learning how to be a therapist to learning how to run programs and build programs and I, uh, left there in, at the end of 2021 to come to Tennessee, uh, to join the OnSite team and run their residential programs.
10:37
Christopher: And I've known of OnSite for over a decade.
10:40
Christopher: It's it's just such a fantastic thing and it's actually a place that we would send family members when their loved ones were in treatment for addiction.
10:51
Christopher: And because OnSite, they have like really good sense of like, Helping family members and those that are in relationships with folks that are struggling with addiction.
11:02
Christopher: There's trauma associated with that.
11:04
Christopher: There's, there's a lot of stress associated with that.
11:07
Christopher: And so, Onsite has this beautiful history of being a place that people come when their loved one is struggling with addiction.
11:16
Christopher: And it started with workshops, which are like six day programs.
11:20
Christopher: And about ten years ago, They started Milestones, which is where I work and, and the program that I'm responsible for and it's more of like a 30 to 90 day residential trauma program.
11:34
Christopher: Similar to Karen, people come here from all over the world.
11:37
Christopher: It's a, it's a wonderful place.
11:40
Christopher: And they just do high, we do high quality trauma treatment.
11:44
Christopher: So did not fall into this work by accident, uh, by any means.
11:49
Christopher: And I, I feel super grateful to get to do work that is so meaningful and, you know, help to make a difference.
11:58
Brenda: Okay, we could spend the whole hour talking about this journey right here, which I won't do because I know we have so much to get into.
12:06
Brenda: But can I just ask, can we just rewind?
12:08
Brenda: Cause you, you talked about how you were, you know, coping with life in very unhealthy ways, which I assume means that you were struggling with the addiction of some sort of your own.
12:20
Brenda: Yep.
12:20
Brenda: And then you found mindfulness and then you kind of went on and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
12:25
Brenda: How does that happen?
12:28
Brenda: Like how did you, because here's, here's why I want to just pause on that for a second is because we always talk with our parents about the fact that there is not just one way for somebody to change their life, to get into a new life, whether that, whether you call that recovery or not, whatever you want to call it, and that it doesn't always have to include formal treatment like that.
12:52
Brenda: But I think people often get in their head, they have to go to, a treatment program they have to go.
12:58
Brenda: And whether you did or not, I don't know, but would you just maybe peel back one more layer of that onion for us to help us understand how that all took place?
13:08
Christopher: Sure.
13:08
Christopher: I mean, at one level, it feels like it was a spiritual awakening because It kind of came out of nowhere, like I kind of stumbled upon it.
13:19
Christopher: When you start to pay attention, which is what mindfulness teaches you, paying attention to the way that you think, paying attention to what's happening in the body, stress lives in the body so you can start to become aware of that.
13:32
Christopher: You start to realize, and in my experience, what I started to realize is that I was on this self destructive path and that I was managing maybe the stress and confusion that a lot of teenagers have.
13:50
Christopher: In a way that was making things worse.
13:53
Christopher: So in my mindfulness practice, it was almost like I could take a step back and from a more centered place, notice how I was trying to navigate my life in a way that was making it worse.
14:09
Christopher: Like there's some like mindfulness based, uh, nicotine sensation programs,
14:14
Brenda: and
14:14
Christopher: they don't tell you to smoke less.
14:15
Christopher: They tell you just to pay attention while you smoke.
14:18
Christopher: And what you realize is how awful it tastes.
14:21
Christopher: You realize how it's really not enjoyable.
14:25
Christopher: And it's just when you can create space to pay attention to what's happening, you start to see things differently.
14:33
Christopher: And I think so many of us are so busy, uh, throughout the day that we don't really do that.
14:40
Christopher: And by the way, paying attention to what's really happening can be super uncomfortable
14:45
Brenda: and it
14:45
Christopher: can be very unnerving because you, you have to come to terms with the fact that you're behaving in ways that are super counterproductive.
14:54
Christopher: Which then requires change.
14:56
Christopher: Oh my goodness.
14:57
Christopher: And that's hard, right?
14:59
Christopher: Yes.
14:59
Christopher: But I think, I think for me, it was like coming to terms with that I was on the trajectory of just more and more pain.
15:10
Christopher: And I had two options, right?
15:13
Christopher: Like I could stay on that trajectory or I could deal with the discomfort.
15:16
Christopher: Discomfort of change.
15:18
Christopher: And I just felt really good about this new path.
15:23
Christopher: It was like, I was so, I'm like, this is a way out.
15:26
Christopher: It's what it felt like, this is a way out of, you know, because I think under my addiction, I was numbing, you know, aspects of things that I've been through in my childhood.
15:37
Christopher: I was numbing the confusion of being a teenager.
15:41
Christopher: I was probably numbing the fact that I was self destructing.
15:44
Christopher: So keep with that.
15:47
Christopher: You know, start to take steps in a different direction.
15:49
Christopher: It, it was, uh, something even like my friends and family, like, what's going on with him?
15:55
Christopher: It's good, but it's like, where did this come from and what's happening kind of thing.
15:58
Christopher: I
15:59
Brenda: bet.
15:59
Brenda: I bet.
15:59
Brenda: It's interesting that you say that, that it felt like a spiritual awakening because I hear that quite often from people I'm thinking of one, one guy, I'll have to put the link in the show notes of he actually.
16:13
Brenda: was approached multiple times by this woman who kept telling him, total stranger, I think you need to do yoga.
16:21
Brenda: And he was an Ivy heroin user.
16:25
Brenda: And ultimately that, you know, culminated in him finally just giving in just to make her happy and going and doing some yoga.
16:31
Brenda: And then now he's like the number two Ashtanga yoga teacher in the world, like crazy.
16:36
Brenda: But that kind of the same thing where he was like, huh, there's something about this.
16:42
Brenda: I don't totally know what it is.
16:44
Brenda: It came out of absolutely nowhere and hit me in the side of the head.
16:48
Brenda: And that was the path.
16:49
Brenda: So, very interesting.
16:52
Brenda: Thank you for diving a little deeper in that.
16:56
Brenda: I know from talking with so many parents, and I said the same thing, it's almost like a joke, we go, Yeah, gosh, it's kind of like we have PTSD.
17:07
Brenda: And knowing what our parents see, And here and, and the decisions that they have to make about what's going on with their kids.
17:19
Brenda: I, I just want to hug them and say, Oh, but you do have PTSD probably not diagnosed, right?
17:28
Brenda: Cause they're not even taking the time to go to see anybody, but maybe you can talk a little bit about that because you've seen this on repeat for so many years.
17:38
Brenda: What do you see and what do you see from your lens?
17:42
Christopher: Yeah, no, that, that's a, that's a, an extremely good point and, and even if they don't know that language, they're talking about they're not sleeping, their stress level is through the roof, the sense of anxiety, sometimes it's more of a depressive experience.
17:57
Christopher: First of all, I mean, trauma is not only generational, but it is also something that affects systems.
18:06
Christopher: So So, you know, you might have somebody that, you know, in their active addiction experience is really stressful.
18:12
Christopher: Things are traumatic.
18:13
Christopher: Let's say it's a child.
18:14
Christopher: And then the parents are trying to support that child and it's so overwhelming for them.
18:19
Christopher: I mean, it can really impact and shut the whole system down.
18:23
Christopher: And when I say shut it down, I just mean like impact their ability to function.
18:27
Christopher: And what's really.
18:28
Christopher: So difficult about that.
18:30
Christopher: It's like parents want to be there for their kids.
18:33
Christopher: They they, you know, they've always taken care of them They've been there rock maybe in some families That's not the case, but but that that typically that sense of wanting to be able to do that is true So I think when it comes to parents that are feeling that first of all We want to normalize that for them.
18:53
Christopher: I mean you cannot have a child or a partner that's Struggling with addiction and for you just to kind of not be impacted and just be available I'm here if you need something, you know Like it is going to be a lot and as we know addiction is something that like tends to progress over time So it might just it might be years in the making.
19:17
Brenda: Yeah
19:18
Christopher: Which, I'm not sure if that's harder than if, if a parent finds out all at once, right?
19:24
Christopher: That could also be really tricky, but all that being said, parents certainly need to take care of themselves.
19:31
Christopher: They got to put the oxygen mask on first, but easier said than done.
19:34
Christopher: Like I, I don't love just saying that because when someone is struggling with PTSD.
19:40
Christopher: Sometimes it's not, they're not in a space where they can take care of themselves and it's, it's, you know, not something that they can do alone.
19:49
Christopher: They, they could be kind of stuck or frozen in their stress response to their child's addiction.
19:56
Christopher: So normalizing is, is huge and you know, you might need to find support and professional help to kind of get out of that.
20:05
Christopher: And it might look like, to your point Brenda, like it might be trauma treatment.
20:09
Christopher: It might be someone that understands trauma and the nervous system and what happens to someone when they experience.
20:17
Christopher: When it comes to treating and healing from trauma, it's not just an intellectual thing, meaning you can't just, you know, understand it maybe with some psychoeducation and start to make changes.
20:27
Christopher: Sometimes.
20:28
Christopher: The nervous system needs attention.
20:29
Christopher: Sometimes the types of therapies that can help a parent that's in that position are more somatic in nature versus cognitive.
20:38
Christopher: Meaning, you know, like you said, doing yoga is just one thing, can be, Really, really helpful to kind of help the nervous system start to regulate
20:50
Brenda: a couple of weeks ago I was on the phone with a mom and luckily we were on video and she was trying to get her daughter into a safe place literally like as we were on the phone her daughter was in the other room and she was Frozen laying on her bed.
21:10
Brenda: I didn't really know what to do because I'm not a therapist And so, you know, I said I want you to take some deep breaths Drink some water was a therapist at one point told me like put your hands in cold water because sometimes that can just So I was trying to help her do this, but it just broke my heart because I saw her just Absolutely frozen and I think we hear a lot about fight or flight And I don't see either of those in a lot of parents.
21:39
Brenda: I see frozen.
21:42
Christopher: That's right.
21:43
Brenda: Can't move.
21:45
Brenda: I can't make a decision.
21:47
Brenda: I can't think.
21:49
Brenda: Is that pretty common or I, I, I just see it all the time.
21:54
Christopher: I really, I really think it is.
21:56
Christopher: I, I would say that it's probably I think it's more common when you're talking about like relational trauma, meaning you're in relationship with someone that's struggling and that has a having a big impact on you.
22:07
Christopher: When I think of fight or flight, that might be, you know, walking along at night and someone jumps out of the bushes, that kind of trauma response might be more appropriate for that.
22:17
Christopher: Now, some people might freeze in those situations and it's, it's interesting.
22:21
Christopher: I've had a lot of interesting conversations about that.
22:24
Christopher: You know, why do certain people do certain type, have certain types of responses?
22:29
Christopher: You know, that's a really great question.
22:31
Christopher: You know, sometimes it's personality.
22:33
Christopher: Sometimes it has to do with the specific type of traumas that they've had in the past.
22:38
Christopher: Freezing is, can be very common.
22:40
Christopher: And sometimes it's not even like the type of freeze where they're completely frozen, but they might, you know, feel a little bit like a sense of confusion and they're a little disoriented and they Quite honestly, you're losing a sense of being in touch with this moment.
23:00
Christopher: It's, there's like a dissociation that comes with it.
23:03
Christopher: The nervous system does really interesting things and it's all in an attempt to keep the person safe and protected.
23:11
Christopher: I will say to you, even working with young adults that are here for trauma treatment, sometimes they have repressed traumas that they weren't even aware of, but doing the therapy more and more memories come up, which I think It's a really interesting phenomenon to, uh, again, just the way the nervous system and the mind protects people because they really can't maybe handle it at the, at the time that it's happening.
23:37
Brenda: Yeah.
23:38
Brenda: I've heard that before.
23:39
Brenda: And I was always curious about that, how the brain decides to just like, Nope, we're not, we're not gonna, we're not going to go there.
23:45
Brenda: But then like you said, with some work and with some professional help to be able to access some of that so that you can work through it, it's not, you're not trying to access it for the sake of like, you know, blaming somebody or any of that, but that's probably what's contributing to a lot of those problems.
24:04
Brenda: Is that the case?
24:06
Christopher: Yeah, I think so.
24:07
Christopher: And you're right.
24:08
Christopher: It's not about blaming, but it's almost like, you know, the nervous system.
24:12
Christopher: And when I say the nervous system, again, it's, it's the part of you that, you know, really wants to protect you.
24:19
Christopher: The nervous system is not interested in you thriving.
24:23
Christopher: They're interested in you surviving.
24:25
Christopher: So it is that instinctual kind of separating yourself from a stressful situation or not.
24:31
Christopher: But yeah, I think when, when things are lost or meaning like repressed memories, it very much.
24:38
Christopher: It's just too much for somebody to comprehend in the, in the moment and it kind of gets lost in, in the memory, sometimes come back and sometimes don't.
24:48
Christopher: It's really fascinating because I mean, I've seen people in their sixties and seventies have things come up and when they were a kid, it's a mixture of help with professionals, but there's also has to be a level of, of safety.
25:02
Christopher: Their memory tends to kind of give that information up, so to speak.
25:07
Brenda: Oh, I'm so glad you said that because I think what I hear parents, like you said, we want to, like, we want to help our kids.
25:16
Brenda: We want to see them thrive.
25:17
Brenda: And so when we start to see them struggle, a lot of times I think we tried to maybe step into the role of therapist and like, well, what happened and tell me what it like.
25:27
Brenda: You know, we try to get it out of them because we want to help them.
25:32
Brenda: And I'm guessing, when you just said safety, that we might not be a safe place for that.
25:39
Brenda: Either because maybe we were involved, or we're just not feeling like a safe place for them at that time.
25:47
Brenda: We haven't shown up in that way.
25:50
Brenda: You know, if I'm like badgering my child trying to get out of them, what happened and was it this or was it that?
25:58
Brenda: That could even make them even more, you know, like, ah, I don't want to talk to you.
26:04
Christopher: Sure.
26:04
Christopher: Yeah.
26:05
Christopher: And you know, sometimes it's also the child might not want to stress their parents out with the information.
26:12
Christopher: So sometimes the withholding of what happened or what's wrong is really because the child cares about their parents.
26:21
Christopher: And they don't want to burden them with the truth, which is, you know, thoughtful in a lot of ways, but it also, I hope they at least get it out to somebody.
26:33
Christopher: Right.
26:42
Brenda: Hi, I'm taking a quick break to let you know some exciting news.
26:45
Brenda: There are now two private online communities for supporting you through this experience with your child or children.
26:51
Brenda: The stream community for those who identify as moms and the woods for guys who identify as dads.
26:57
Brenda: Of course, this includes step parents and anyone who is caring for a young person who struggles with substance use and mental health.
27:05
Brenda: The Stream and the Woods exist completely outside of all social media, so you never have to worry about confidentiality.
27:11
Brenda: And they're also ad free.
27:13
Brenda: So when you're there, you'll be able to focus on learning the latest evidence based approaches to helping people change their relationship.
27:21
Brenda: With drugs and alcohol in both communities, we have a positive focus without triggering content or conversations.
27:28
Brenda: And we help you learn to be an active participant in helping your child move towards healthier choices.
27:35
Brenda: You'll also experience the relief of just being able to be real connect with other parents who know fully what you're going through and have battle tested mentors alongside you can check out both the stream and the woods for free before committing.
27:48
Brenda: So there's no risk.
27:50
Brenda: Go to hopestreamcommunity.
27:51
Brenda: org to get all the details and become a member.
27:54
Brenda: Okay, let's get back to the show.
28:07
Brenda: A lot of times when I hear about families who the, the child has had a sexual trauma in their past, whether that was when they were very young or maybe in grade school or middle school or whatever, they're trying to deal with that and they absolutely don't want their parents to know because.
28:26
Brenda: And I've seen this several times.
28:28
Brenda: It can fracture the family, right?
28:31
Brenda: Uncle Joe did this.
28:32
Christopher: That's right.
28:33
Brenda: Well now, what's going to happen to our family?
28:36
Brenda: So not only do they have the trauma of the actual event or whatever was happening, they also have to think about.
28:45
Brenda: Am I going to be the one that like lets this out there and now our whole family is going to be impacted?
28:52
Brenda: Yeah, is that something that people can get help with like deciding if they're going to Disclose this information.
28:58
Brenda: I can't even imagine how that would feel
29:01
Christopher: Yeah, so not only you know, is the child not safe in their own family, but then they feel the weight of that Responsibility for the family to be okay Depending on the age of the child, they also, I mean, developmentally, when, when children are younger, pretty much before pre, before they hit puberty, they, they tend to feel that the stress in their environment is related to them.
29:25
Christopher: They're quite egocentric.
29:28
Christopher: And so if mom and dad are fighting, they might think, what did I do wrong?
29:33
Christopher: So if there's a sexual assault on some level, they know that that wasn't healthy or right, but then they also might feel like it's their fault.
29:42
Brenda: And.
29:44
Christopher: I ha I hate this so much.
29:45
Christopher: But the other truth to this is sometimes children that are find themselves in that situation, the adult might say to them like, Hey, don't tell anybody or This will happen, or Don't tell anybody 'cause you'll get in trouble.
30:02
Christopher: And it's just, there's layers of not only trauma, but also manipulation.
30:10
Christopher: Again, there's just so many reasons that kids might not bring that to the surface and then the parents are trying to figure out why the kid starts to behave different because you can't have that level of trauma and just smile and go to school and be fine.
30:24
Christopher: Like there's going to be.
30:25
Christopher: Behaviors that the family sees and they're going to get real curious about what's going on But they might not have context for it,
30:31
Brenda: right?
30:31
Brenda: and of course with substance use the the symptoms of the substance use are Usually so destructive that now the parents are you know, you're lying to us You're not going to school You're blah blah blah.
30:47
Brenda: You're you're basically worse.
30:49
Brenda: What we're saying is like you're a bad kid And they're just responding to this thing.
30:56
Brenda: And so that, I mean, it's no wonder we have so many kids struggling.
31:00
Christopher: Yeah.
31:01
Christopher: Yeah.
31:02
Christopher: No, it's really sad.
31:03
Christopher: And you're right.
31:04
Christopher: The, the, the correlation or the relationship between.
31:09
Christopher: trauma, whether it's abuse or neglect or something else and substance use is, is huge.
31:16
Christopher: And I got to say, when you have someone that's, you know, a, uh, maybe a preteen or something that they're struggling with that type of trauma, Unhealthy environment if you really think about it using substances as a way to get through the day or to numb the pain I think it's a legit option for them.
31:35
Christopher: It's it's better than ending one's life
31:39
Brenda: Right
31:40
Christopher: or something like that because asking for help or being honest about what has happened Might not feel like an option for them at that age in that environment or in that family So it is it's I've talked with people that are adults and they're like, I think the only reason I survived my teenage years was by using, but of course then they find themselves in a place where they need recovery from trauma and addiction, but it, but it was the way that they got through it.
32:10
Brenda: Yeah.
32:11
Brenda: So that leads me to, we are like so on a tangent here, but I want to go with it because I love your knowledge in this area.
32:18
Brenda: So let's say you've got a, like a trauma, big T trauma, or even, you know, I think sometimes it's the 18, 000 little t traumas that
32:27
Christopher: end
32:28
Brenda: up becoming a capital T, whatever it is, and then you layer on the substance use, how do you pull those apart and say, okay, do we treat the trauma part of this, which will then subside this, the need for the substances, or do we have to get the, chemicals out of the body in order to be able to deal with what's actually going on?
32:51
Brenda: Like, how do you approach that?
32:53
Christopher: Yeah.
32:54
Christopher: Yeah.
32:54
Christopher: It very much can be a chicken or egg conversation.
32:57
Brenda: Yeah.
32:58
Christopher: I could answer it a couple of different ways, but I mean, at Milestones, we, because we, we really specialize in deeper trauma that, you know, sometimes is very old, maybe from childhood or, or, or to have addiction.
33:16
Christopher: Somewhat stable.
33:17
Christopher: They have like emotional capability again, because if someone's really close, let's say someone's been drinking consistently and they come to milestones, it might take them like a month or two to sort of start to have feelings again, because they've been numbing for so long,
33:35
Brenda: right?
33:35
Christopher: And to really do the trauma work, there has to be some level of ability to access emotion and kind of work through the trauma in that way.
33:47
Christopher: Ideally, it's really great to have it that way.
33:50
Christopher: But then I will say to you too that some people struggle to thrive in recovery because they don't have the ability to trust others because of their trauma.
34:01
Christopher: Even if we can just get them off the substances and detox, sometimes we got to try and do both at the same time.
34:08
Christopher: We have done really good with clients that have been to addiction rehab five, six, But it is the underlying, underlining trauma that has never gotten the appropriate treatment that keeps them from being able to thrive in recovery.
34:23
Brenda: Right.
34:24
Christopher: With my addiction background, I, I get really excited to be able to provide good trauma treatment to people who can't make traction in their recovery because of the underlying trauma.
34:34
Christopher: It's just, That is such a needed piece sometimes.
34:38
Brenda: Yeah.
34:39
Brenda: Thank you for that, because that's always a, a head scratcher, especially for parents of young people who are like, Hmm, what, which is driving the bus?
34:48
Brenda: And also then which do we address first?
34:50
Brenda: Because it's so hard, unfortunately, to find a really good dual diagnosis.
34:58
Brenda: adolescent type treatment program.
35:01
Brenda: Okay.
35:02
Brenda: Now I want to reverse off the, off the little cul de sac that we went down in thinking about.
35:07
Brenda: The parents who are really traumatized and, and are there some things that you would recommend that we can do?
35:17
Brenda: And like, perfect example, my acupuncturist just moved offices and it happens to be a block away from where my son overdosed the last time.
35:28
Brenda: And I had avoided that street for.
35:31
Brenda: Six years because makes my heart beat, you know, and then I, I literally see him on the sidewalk with the paramedics there.
35:42
Brenda: Like it just, I almost want to throw up just thinking about it.
35:45
Brenda: So, and I've even done EMDR about this.
35:48
Brenda: So I have to be, I have to go there.
35:52
Brenda: And that is so traumatizing.
35:55
Brenda: That's just one of a billion examples.
35:58
Christopher: That's right.
35:58
Christopher: All
35:59
Brenda: of the things our parents are dealing with.
36:01
Brenda: What are some things that we can do?
36:03
Brenda: Like as I'm getting in the car or as I'm like sitting at that stoplight, are there things where we can't access a therapist or we can't access a, you know, week somewhere, what are some things that we might be able to implement in our lives?
36:18
Brenda: Yeah.
36:21
Christopher: Wow.
36:21
Christopher: That's such a great question.
36:22
Christopher: And what you're describing, like, just, it's almost like you have this full body experience, right?
36:30
Christopher: And we can't control the thoughts that pop into our minds.
36:34
Christopher: We cannot control what happens in our body, like emotionally.
36:39
Christopher: But I think in those moments, your body's having a reaction due to past experiences.
36:44
Christopher: So, you So in those moments, you know, there's things you can do is like talk to your support before you know, you're going to go there, for example, just to kind of, Hey, I'm going to do this, say a prayer for me, you know, uh, whatever that might look like, whatever works for you.
37:00
Christopher: But then I think like the physical body is always in the present moment.
37:04
Christopher: It's the mind that can be in the past and in the future.
37:07
Christopher: So, you know, while you're in that space, can you very intentionally feel your presence?
37:14
Christopher: Feet on the ground in the car.
37:17
Christopher: Can you notice the rise and fall of your chest as you breathe?
37:21
Christopher: You know, can you in ways just like remind yourself that you're here now and you're not back where that happened?
37:31
Brenda: Right.
37:31
Christopher: You know, can you roll down the window and like let the breeze kind of keep you present?
37:36
Christopher: We just got to do hard things sometimes and you can't avoid it.
37:40
Christopher: So I'm a huge fan of getting support from others, but there's like ways to like ground yourself so to speak and and I think Expectations are important to set it might get easier every time you go there It's almost a little bit of exposure therapy, right?
38:00
Christopher: So if you expect it to be a little difficult But you know you can get through it if you kind of keep a positive attitude like that Like it'll It'll get easier to get easier, but I, but again, if it's not getting easier, I love the fact that you mentioned EMDR.
38:15
Christopher: There's a lot of really good trauma therapies that can really help people's nervous systems to start to, to calm down in that way.
38:22
Brenda: Yes, that was incredibly helpful.
38:25
Brenda: And I.
38:26
Brenda: I really appreciate the idea about doing something to make sure that you realize you're in this moment and not in the past moment.
38:33
Brenda: Or the other place we go is the future moment, which is now he's, you know, not my kid, but you know, we, we, we play that movie forward.
38:44
Brenda: And even though they're fine right now, we've already got them like dead in a ditch five years from now.
38:51
Brenda: Right.
38:51
Brenda: We've like, we've projected that.
38:53
Brenda: So, And I love the idea of adding an element to it like rolling down the window or feeling your feet because like you said it's really hard to just do that in your mind just to talk to myself and say I'm here I'm here I'm here doesn't really help like I need that added Like a smack in the face, right?
39:14
Brenda: Like you are here
39:16
Christopher: and,
39:16
Brenda: and feel it.
39:17
Brenda: That's
39:19
Christopher: right.
39:19
Christopher: Yeah.
39:20
Christopher: And I, and like, for example, like sometimes I'll even, if I'm having a really stressful day, if I'm walking from one place to another, just making sure I take that time rather than like rehearsing the, what I'm going to say in the meeting I'm going to, or the conversation I'm going to have with this person, it's like, Can I just take that time to feel my feet on the ground as I walk?
39:41
Christopher: The other thing I would say, Brenda, to the parents that, that are in these stressful situations and they need to take care of themselves, everything matters.
39:51
Christopher: And I, and I say that not to stress people out, but like, there's so many ways that stress enters our lives.
39:58
Christopher: And so if there's a stressful situation with your child, Maybe there's aspects of that that there's no quick fix and it's going to be a process, but like, can you make sure to get enough sleep?
40:10
Christopher: Can you make sure to nourish your body with food?
40:14
Christopher: Can you make sure to find periods of time where you relax?
40:20
Christopher: It's one thing to have a child that is struggling and you have to deal with that, but if you have, in so many other ways, like stress infiltrating your life in a way that's just going to make it so much harder to respond to the stressful situation that really matters.
40:39
Christopher: So I'm just, I know it's easier said than done sometimes, but like even, you know, eliminating sugar from your life and from, or from your, from let's just say minimizing it, whatever, or getting the right amount of sleep or making sure to go for a walk with a friend.
40:56
Christopher: These might seem like little things, but We're going to be triggered with anger and anxiety and depression much more.
41:04
Christopher: They're all stress induced issues or illnesses.
41:08
Christopher: And so let's take control of the stress where we can because there's aspects of our life that we have no control of that stress.
41:18
Christopher: So I'm a big picture like I'm like, okay, let's when I'm working like let's look at the big picture and how can we make little differences that will make a big difference because really when your kid needs you if your stress is so high that you cannot be helpful.
41:33
Christopher: Then that's going to be really difficult.
41:37
Brenda: Yeah.
41:38
Brenda: You are speaking my language.
41:40
Brenda: I'm so glad to hear this from someone like you, because I say it.
41:44
Brenda: And sometimes I think people are like, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever.
41:48
Brenda: But it's like, it is, I think for me, the aspect of that is that I still do have agency over parts of my life that I can make those decisions in it.
42:00
Brenda: It's not easy to pick up the piece of fruit versus the cupcake all the time, right?
42:07
Brenda: But that is something that I have control over and it is something as little as that is, it's still something.
42:15
Brenda: And I always say the knockoff benefit of that is your kid sees you making a better decision.
42:22
Brenda: And we can always be good role models for our kids, even if they're out doing crazy things, they're still watching, like, they're so observant, right, of what we're doing.
42:34
Christopher: Very much.
42:35
Christopher: And I love what you just said because As small as choosing fruit over bad sugar, like, if they see you taking care of yourself in other ways.
42:44
Christopher: I mean, we all know that like, what you do is way more important than what you say.
42:49
Christopher: Even working with, you know, families, it's like they want their child to go into treatment and then work a program of recovery.
42:58
Christopher: I'm like, well, you could show them what that looks like.
43:01
Christopher: You know, you can do the same thing, lead by example.
43:05
Christopher: And if anything, then you're going to be more centered and supported and healthier to kind of meet them where they're at.
43:14
Christopher: But I also, I don't want to make it sound easy though.
43:16
Christopher: Like it, like it's not always easy, but how we take care of ourselves and what we do for our own recoveries, parents is, is probably one of the most important things we can do for our kids.
43:27
Brenda: Absolutely.
43:29
Brenda: What can we learn from trauma?
43:32
Brenda: Like, is there any good we can make out of it?
43:35
Christopher: Some of the strongest and, you know, most centered and impressive and magnetic people I know are trauma survivors.
43:48
Christopher: I think it builds resilience, you know, and a lot of times, like, why did good people have bad things happen to them?
43:56
Christopher: Like that's another big question.
43:57
Christopher: But, you know, when you work through hard things and you heal, whether it's from a pain, physical illness or from trauma or from addiction, it builds up resilience.
44:11
Christopher: So I, first of all, I think that's huge.
44:13
Christopher: And it also forces us to be honest with ourselves because there's things in life that we have no control over.
44:20
Christopher: And there's things in life that we have to, to take control over.
44:24
Christopher: And we are all leaders of our own lives.
44:27
Christopher: You know, we can't really always control what happens to us, but we can control how we respond to it.
44:32
Christopher: So it builds character.
44:34
Christopher: It builds resilience.
44:36
Christopher: It.
44:36
Christopher: It teaches us to connect to others in ways that I think sometimes we would never know how to do.
44:44
Christopher: Like not every family environment or family system teaches intimacy and connection, whereas healing from trauma can teach you that.
44:54
Christopher: It can give you healing.
44:56
Christopher: That in a way that you might've never experienced it.
44:59
Christopher: So I think that's a silver lining and you know, it might even what, what another, it kind of like, again, it creates a healer in you on some level.
45:09
Christopher: You have this life experience that.
45:13
Christopher: You've been through some stuff and therefore you might listen to others in a way that you never would have before, which could be the greatest gift that you give somebody.
45:23
Christopher: And I'm talking about either your kids or a colleague or a friend.
45:28
Brenda: It's so true.
45:29
Brenda: And also what I've noticed is I'm much more in tune with my body.
45:35
Brenda: You know, when I.
45:36
Brenda: I used to just feel sick or I would have a headache or whatever.
45:40
Brenda: And now I go, Oh, wait a minute.
45:43
Brenda: What are you telling me?
45:44
Brenda: Like I do the little body scan.
45:46
Brenda: It's like, what are you telling me?
45:47
Brenda: So while I think trauma can be really hard on our bodies physically, it also can teach us to pay attention.
45:58
Brenda: Yes.
45:58
Brenda: Don't ignore those things that are going on because.
46:02
Brenda: They're telling, they're sending a message like, Hey, over here, over here.
46:08
Brenda: So I think that can be.
46:11
Brenda: Really helpful to just as even just practically like as we age just being a little bit more in tune with your body and knowing When to rest and feeling okay about resting
46:22
Christopher: Yeah,
46:22
Brenda: mom's in particular and dad's too, but I know mom's in particular are terrible at resting It's like, wait, you want me to sit down and do nothing?
46:33
Brenda: That's not going to happen, right?
46:35
Brenda: We're so bad at that.
46:37
Brenda: Oh goodness.
46:38
Brenda: Well, there's so much we could talk about, but I'd love to know if there's like a myth or misperception that you think is out there in the world, either about addiction or about trauma or about mental health, uh, that you would like to just clear up for everybody once and for all, because you hear it all the time.
46:59
Brenda: You see it all the time.
47:00
Brenda: You see hundreds and hundreds of people coming through onsite.
47:03
Brenda: What do you, what do you hear that you just want to like clear up for us?
47:07
Christopher: Yeah, that's such a great question.
47:10
Christopher: One thing that comes to mind is that it's, You know, it impacts individuals, whether it's addiction or trauma.
47:17
Christopher: And I, I think that that's a myth.
47:21
Christopher: We're such relational beings and we need each other more than I think most people realize.
47:28
Christopher: And I know that when someone's struggling with addiction or trauma, sometimes they don't want to burden those around them, but it impacts systems.
47:36
Christopher: It impacts families.
47:37
Christopher: And, uh, I think we need people and we learn that the hard way in the healing process, it's hard to heal alone.
47:45
Christopher: But yeah, I, I think that that's a big myth that, you know, Oh, it's, it's, it's my problem or it's their problem.
47:51
Christopher: It's no, it's, it's all of our problem and we need to work at this together.
47:56
Christopher: I think that's a big one.
47:58
Brenda: That is so true.
47:59
Brenda: It is.
47:59
Brenda: We often talk about the mobile, you know, the little one that hangs over the crib and you poke one thing and the whole thing does this.
48:09
Brenda: And that's right.
48:10
Brenda: And I see that with our families that are new coming into our community.
48:14
Brenda: It'll be like, well, where can I send them to get fixed?
48:17
Brenda: And, and I had that same thing.
48:19
Brenda: So by no means am I judging, I, I just assumed, Oh, I'm going to send my kid to wilderness therapy and he's going to come back fixed, like, right.
48:28
Brenda: You send them to the doctor, they get a cast and their broken leg is fixed.
48:31
Brenda: And so that takes a little while to wrap your head around that.
48:36
Brenda: Like, Oh, actually this is all of our thing to heal.
48:41
Brenda: So very, very relevant.
48:44
Brenda: And then finally, what do you love most about what you do?
48:47
Christopher: My goodness.
48:49
Christopher: I think what I love most about what I do is when I see people, whether it's the families or the person that's here in treatment, and sometimes we do family work.
49:01
Christopher: So when they're together, they start to feel hope again.
49:05
Christopher: That is like why we show up every day.
49:08
Christopher: That's why I show up.
49:10
Christopher: And just when people start to see the potential for healing and connection and happiness again, and start to really put things in perspective, like what's really important.
49:24
Christopher: And the possibilities of a life in recovery.
49:29
Christopher: Uh, but yeah, for me, it's, it's all about people kind of feeling like life can get better and, and I'm not going to be stuck in this state, uh, forever.
49:43
Christopher: Yeah.
49:43
Christopher: That to me is, is huge.
49:45
Christopher: And it's just what an honor to get to pour into people to have meaningful work is just super important to me.
49:54
Brenda: Yeah.
49:55
Brenda: Amazing.
49:56
Brenda: So you mentioned.
49:58
Brenda: Uh, and I'll put links in the show notes, so you don't have to try and remember all of this, but just quickly, you mentioned milestones is onsite program for young adults.
50:07
Brenda: Is that true?
50:08
Christopher: We are 18 and older.
50:11
Christopher: So a lot of times we have young adults but we could, we could have an 18 year old and an 80 year old at the same time,
50:17
Brenda: which I bet is really very, very helpful.
50:21
Brenda: I would imagine
50:22
Christopher: it's, it's great.
50:23
Christopher: It's huge.
50:24
Brenda: Yeah.
50:25
Brenda: Okay.
50:25
Brenda: Well, we'll put, we'll put links in the show notes so that everybody can find onsite and milestones so that, you know, our parents are always looking for resources.
50:35
Christopher: That's great.
50:36
Brenda: Where can we get some help?
50:37
Brenda: And then we'll make sure that those are linked in there.
50:40
Brenda: Thank you so much for the time.
50:42
Brenda: I really appreciate it.
50:43
Brenda: Yeah.
50:43
Christopher: You're very welcome.
50:44
Christopher: This was a lot of fun.
50:46
Brenda: Okay, my friend, that is a wrap for today.
50:48
Brenda: Don't forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick.
50:52
Brenda: It's totally free and it will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating those positive conditions for change in your home and in your relationships.
51:04
Brenda: It is at hopestreamcommunity.
51:07
Brenda: org forward slash worried.
51:09
Brenda: And guess what?
51:10
Brenda: We have moved the entire podcast to our website at HopeStreamCommunity.
51:15
Brenda: org.
51:16
Brenda: So now when you want the show notes or resources, or if you want to download a transcript, just go to HopeStreamCommunity.
51:23
Brenda: org and click on podcast and you will find it all there.
51:27
Brenda: You can search by keyword, episode number, guest name.
51:31
Brenda: And we have created playlists for you, makes it much easier to find episodes grouped by topic.
51:36
Brenda: So we're really excited to have that done and hope you like the podcast's new home.
51:43
Brenda: Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today.
51:46
Brenda: Take a deep breath.
51:47
Brenda: You've got this and you are going to be okay.
51:50
Brenda: You're not doing it alone.
51:52
Brenda: I will meet you right back here next week.