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REMASTERED: How Navy Seals Create an Unbeatable Mind, with Mark Divine (Military, Mindset, Business, Motivation) · The Action Catalyst

• 0:00
  Host: Mark Devine has a degree in economics from Colgate
• 0:10
  University and an MBA in finance from NYU, his first career was
• 0:52
  as a CPA, but four years after joining mark left and became
• 0:56
  pursued his vision to become an elite Navy SEAL officer. And
• 0:59
  what's cool. Not only was he in the Navy SEALs, but he graduated
• 1:03
  as the honor man, the number one ranked trainee of his seal class
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  served nine years active duty, and 11 years as a reserve seal.
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  He is the New York Times best selling author of the way of the
• 1:16
  seal and eight weeks to SEAL Fit, also an accomplished
• 1:19
  martial artist and just an awesome guy, Mark, welcome to
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  the show, man. You know, this concept of unbeatable mind. I
• 1:26
  think it's so relevant. One of the things that you talk about
• 1:29
  is the 20x factor. Can you tell us what that's all about?
• 1:31
  Mark Divine: Yeah, sure. You know, most people have heard of
• 1:34
  hell week Hell Week is that one week during the nine months of
• 1:37
  seal, you know, in dock training, or basic training
• 1:40
  called buds, and then SQ t. So there's one week that's kind of
• 1:43
  famous, and that's the week called Hell Week where we train
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  from new Sunday afternoon until Friday, the following Friday
• 1:49
  around the clock without any sleep, actually, they give us
• 1:52
  four hours just to mess with us on Thursday. But so it's kind of
• 1:55
  legendary, you know, and, and it really is, it's multi purpose.
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  But I would say the dominant purpose is to teach those that
• 2:04
  make it through it, that they're capable of practically anything
• 2:07
  that they put their mind to. The reason I use the 20x term is
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  because as I was preparing myself, for my own Hell Week,
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  you know, I kind of I had some unique rituals, my teammates
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  were all sitting in messing with their gear, and you know, that
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  we had this big tent set up, set up and buzz and they're kind of
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  like anxiously awaiting what we call breakout, which was the
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  start, and I had kind of wandered off over the berm, you
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  know, and just sat and looked at the ocean and just, you know,
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  began my breathing and kind of meditation practice what I now
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  call, you know, winning in my mind before the battle. And as I
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  was sitting there, one of the instructors came up to me and he
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  kind of smiled. He, like, he looked at me, and I don't know
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  what was going through his head, but he must have been thinking,
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  Okay, this guy is a little bit different. And he's doing
• 2:47
  something different. And I get it, and it came at me and he
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  goes, Mark, you got nothing to worry about, because you're
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  capable 20 times more than you think you are, have fun, you
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  know, basically have fun with this one, because he knew for
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  some reason that I was going to make it through. And when the
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  training started, you know, again, the first like, 50, some
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  odd hours are the hardest, because that's the like, the new
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  reality of this, your life circumstances setting in your
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  body is all of a sudden saying, I am exhausted, I haven't slept,
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  I'm freezing cold, I'm shaved, I'm bleeding, you know, I've
• 3:18
  just ache all over the place. But your mind says, Okay, that's
• 3:21
  all fine and good. But you're not quitting, you got three and
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  a half more days. And so that was what was going through my
• 3:26
  mind. In the meantime, my my teammates were quitting left and
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  right, we, you know, we started my class with 185 students, all
• 3:34
  highly qualified super studs, by the time we get to Hell Week,
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  we're probably down to like 120 or something like that. And then
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  by the end of 50 hours a hell week, we're down to like, 60. So
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  they're just dropping like flies. And I was just telling
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  myself can't quit, just keep going one foot in front, the
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  other, you know, words to that effect, my body started to get
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  stronger. So you know, after days without sleep, you know,
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  around the clock physical training, most people
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  conventional wisdom would be that you'd be breaking down and
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  you know, you'd be almost catatonic and my body started to
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  build muscle mass and started to get stronger, and I started to
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  get more alert, and I was still probably, you know, if you were
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  to give me some sort of test, I was probably I would probably
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  have, you know, failed any higher cognitive functions or
• 4:16
  skills, you know, but I was able to stay focused on the tasks
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  that they were giving to me and to stay focused on my team and
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  to, you know, drive through and I was getting stronger and
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  feeling stronger. And so that was really profound to me
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  because I realized you know, afterwards that that that
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  instructor was right, like I truly was capable 20 times more
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  than I thought and how we proved it to me. And so that's become
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  kind of a central tenet of my my teaching today is that you know,
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  you are capable 20 times more and then 20 times again, but you
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  got to prove it to yourself in order to believe it at a really
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  got a heart level. You know, I mean, it's not a cognitive
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  thing. You can't just think yourself that you're capable
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  that much more because that's, that's not enough. You know,
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  you've got to get it know it deeply.
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  Host: Give us an example for some of the people that are not
• 5:02
  that familiar with hell week, what are some of the other
• 5:04
  things that you're doing?
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  Mark Divine: You know, the evolutions they call every event
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  in evolution is that evolution is range from anywhere from, you
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  know, a couple hours to like six or eight hours long. And they
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  had us doing you know, seal like stuff but not the not super
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  complicated like we weren't jumping out of helicopters with,
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  you know, live ammunition and bursting down doors because this
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  wasn't the purpose of the training, training was to
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  attract those people who weren't mentally tougher or emotionally
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  resilient and couldn't be good teammates, and prove those of us
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  who were mentally tough, emotionally resilient, and good
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  teammates that were capable of frickin anything. So the types
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  of things we're doing like one evolution was to take our 350
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  pound logs, and you know, to take them on like a 10 mile
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  journey, right, carrying them over our heads and on our
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  shoulders without putting them down. And so that was, you know,
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  interesting challenge to say the least in the soft sand. Another
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  was to paddle our little rubber boats that called IBS. I'm not
• 6:00
  even sure what that acronym was, but we called we called it at
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  bat ship. little rubber boats. And there are seven of us. And
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  we had to paddle these itty bitty ships around Coronado
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  Island in San Diego at night. And that was I think, on like
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  Wednesday night or something of Hell Week, and everybody was
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  hallucinating, including myself. Now it's like two in the
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  morning. And we're just stroke stroke stroke. And the guy in
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  front of me, literally, his paddle slipped out of his hand
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  and started floating past me and I grabbed it and his arms kept
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  moving. You know, he kept stroking. So I took the battle,
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  I just smacked him over the head with it. And as I hate dummy
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  years battle, he's like, holy cow, I didn't even know I lost
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  that thing a little bit, you know, longer a little bit
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  further along, I saw this massive wave well up in front of
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  me. And I'm like water, water. That's what we used to say, you
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  know, when we go through surf passage, so in a huge wave came
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  up. And so I ducked down and everyone looks at me, like, what
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  are you doing? I said, Doc water, and then I look up and
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  there's nothing there. I'm like, so your mind, you know, our
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  mind, the body first goes, and then the mind goes. And that's
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  that's kind of the whole point here is that the mind starts to
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  play tricks on you. And it's your cognitive mind, which is,
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  you know, the reality is is fraying. And the structures that
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  you used to hang on to his real are starting to shift and to
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  fray. And so you can't rely on that anymore. And so that was a
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  great lesson for me too, as I can't, I can't rely on the way
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  my mind the way I used to perceive my mind working.
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  Because it's not, it's not working that way for me under
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  stress. So I'm working right under stress.
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  Host: So if you go okay, that your body is capable, 20 times
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  more, how do you access that?
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  Mark Divine: I mean, that's the Holy Grail. So in the seals,
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  it's just through these intense experiences that you like crack
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  open your body mind system, and reorganize it in ways that I
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  don't even think anyone really understands, I don't even think
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  the seals understand it, they just know it works. That's why
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  they'll never give up pelvic they've had so many, you know,
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  kind of peacetime attempts to get rid of the whole week
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  program because they think it's kind of inhumane. And you know,
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  then thinking maybe too hard. And you know, there have been
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  people have died in the training and stuff, but very rare,
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  actually. And they're from natural causes, like, you know,
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  someone dies of a heart attack, or they have an accident and
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  they drowned. But no one's died from exhaustion that I'm aware
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  of in Hell Week. So anyways, what I'm saying is the seals
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  just that the training is just brilliant. And it's evolved
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  over, you know, 60 years to really prepare seals for the
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  most rigorous challenges missions and environments in the
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  world. And to believe that anything's possible to believe
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  that they can accomplish any mission. And so you know, that
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  you look at the success rate of the seals and the kind of bears
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  that out that that's a pretty effective training method. So I
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  don't want to mess with it. But I don't think they really
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  understand beyond kind of like the combat effectiveness and
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  some of the work that David Grossman has done with his
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  understanding about how to condition a warrior for the
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  rigors of combat. I think that's all that's all like philosophy
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  and research and it's really interesting, but I don't think
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  they understand what's happening at a emotional, even quasi
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  spiritual level or metaphysical level and also with regard to
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  the brain and the mind, and the nervous system and how all those
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  things are are reorganizing you know, through neuroplasticity
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  and, and also epigenetics so that seals are kind of like
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  turning on and off different genes. And I would say, you
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  know, if there was a warrior gene and then the seals have
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  learned how to turn that on, in a big way to where you get, you
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  get activities like you know, what I'm willing to light might
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  lay my life down for my teammate. You don't see that
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  very often in modern world that is a very much of a warrior gene
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  that's been turned on where you put yourself your teammates so
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  far above yourself and that's one of the reasons that the
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  training is so effective because nothing gets done alone as a
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  seal. That's why we called the SEAL teams and when you have an
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  individual miss a tick, mark them out Lunch, who knows that
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  he's capable of 20 times more. And then you put him with a team
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  of 14 others in a platoon, or maybe you know, 35 others in a
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  troop or 40 others in the troop, and every one of those
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  individuals knows that they're capable of 20 times more. And
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  they're all watching each other's back and care about each
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  other, and know that each other is absolutely essential to
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  getting the mission done, then you get an effect. That's not
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  like 20 times, but like 20 times, 20 times 20 times 20
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  times, you know, I mean, just multiply it by the number of
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  people's it's an it's an enormous geometric effect.
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  Host: So take me to preparing yourself, right? Because I
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  think, you know, like most of us are probably never going to be
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  in this situation. But how do you sort of mentally prepare
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  yourself? What do you do when it's real? Like, right before
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  it's real?
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  Mark Divine: That's great question, because you're right,
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  not everyone is going to go through SEAL training, nor would
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  you want to, frankly, because it sucks. So I've kind of spent the
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  balance of my, you know, the last 15 years trying to figure
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  out how do you train, not that that same experience, even
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  though you know, through my SEAL Fit program, we have recreated
• 11:11
  the whole week experience, and it has an incredible effect, and
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  civilians can go through it, but but through my unbeatable mind
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  training I looked at I said, Okay, so what's what's
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  happening, and I tried to understand what is happening at
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  a mind, body and spirit and nervous system level. And can I
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  kind of parse out those different elements and train
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  them. And so I began doing that with seal candidates back in
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  2007 2008. Because I started training seal candidates, I
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  wanted to help them succeed the way I did, and SEAL training and
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  to have a better career and be more focused and make better
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  decisions and battle and to avoid PTSD and all those things.
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  And, and so I began to draw them more are kind of like I would
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  say, equal parts from my Navy SEAL days, with my yoga and
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  martial arts training. So I realized that the Eastern
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  practices had a lot of tools. And they were a developmental
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  path for accessing greater power, almost 20x power, and
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  developing internal potential, and integrating and being able
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  to use your mind in a unique way or a better way. And this, this
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  is lacking in the West, there really isn't any developmental
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  models that that I'm aware of, that didn't come from either the
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  martial arts or yoga. There were some understanding of it
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  Phillips philosophically, through integral theory, and
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  transpersonal, psychology and stuff like that. But there
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  weren't any practices or paths, if you know what I mean, in the
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  traditional sense. And so I looked at my own millet martial
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  arts training and my own now I was deep into yoga and into
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  teach, I've been to multiple teacher trainings, and was even
• 12:47
  developing our own yoga to teach to seals, which I you know,
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  handled, to really simplify and chunk it out into drills and,
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  and discard any woowoo. You know what I mean, that took the fool
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  out of the Kung Fu and took the woowoo out of the yoga to teach
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  it. And so I came up with these skills, I call them well, they
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  lined sort of with what the seals called the Big Four. But
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  there's, there's more than four. But the biggest and most
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  powerful ones are, first is to develop control over your
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  breath, and to use your breath as a center post of your
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  training, right? Because the breath is what will lead you to
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  being in physiological control of your body. And so the studies
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  have now verified the power of breath control for stress
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  management, stress release, and for triggering the
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  parasympathetic nervous system to bleed off stress. So it's
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  really, really healthy for you and healthview nervous system,
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  but beyond that, the breath is a way to stay focused, because
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  after all, the brain is a organ of the body. And when your body
• 13:49
  is calmer, your brain is calmer, I mean, it's experienced
• 13:52
  subjectively as literally a lower brain, you know, cycle
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  rate and you kind of an alpha beta, when you're really calm.
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  And, and it's healthier, right, and you're detoxing when you
• 14:03
  breathe deeply in so quickly, and you know, you know, you
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  don't have the choppy patterns associated with an anxious
• 14:10
  emotional states. So the breath controls that first skill that I
• 14:14
  started teaching the seal candidates, and that alone and I
• 14:17
  call the practice box breathing, that alone had a profound impact
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  on their ability to focus and remain clear in the heat of
• 14:25
  battle and that type of thing. And then I said, Okay, so once I
• 14:28
  am physically, physiologically and physically in control, and
• 14:32
  I'm clear headed and able to focus, then it's about creating
• 14:36
  the conditions in my mind, so that I can stay focused on the
• 14:39
  right thing at the right time, stay focused on on my teammates
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  and stay focused on a positive outcome. Whereas you know, the
• 14:47
  common individual will seize upon you know, some something
• 14:50
  that's going wrong and that could be like I'm suffering
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  because this sucks, or, you know, I'm I'm in pain. Normally,
• 14:57
  my back hurts, or I can't do this because it's too hard, I
• 15:01
  can't lift this 300 pound log up anymore. There's always
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  something, you know, whether it's physical or mental or
• 15:08
  something really practical, some challenge or crisis in your
• 15:11
  life, there's always something great because that's the human
• 15:15
  condition every day of your life, there's going to be
• 15:18
  something that doesn't go well. Or right, there's going to be
• 15:22
  something that's negative, there's going to be some
• 15:25
  discomfort. And most people will seize upon that, and focus on
• 15:29
  that. And then, of course, that what you focus on tends to grow
• 15:33
  or to, you know, it attracts energy to it. And so I learned
• 15:36
  and I taught the seals that, you know, we accept and be non
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  attached to what happens to us. And we take control in a
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  positive sense of what's happening in our mind, and both
• 15:47
  our rational mind as well as our emotional mind. And so we
• 15:50
  maintain a really positive, energetic attitude and mindset,
• 15:54
  I call this positivity, the train mind, as soon as that
• 15:57
  resistance is experienced, will begin to dialogue in a way that
• 16:01
  generates power instead of weakness. And so when that log
• 16:04
  starts to rub the shoulder or starts to get hard, you know,
• 16:08
  instead of saying, holy cow, I don't think I can do this or
• 16:11
  man, this thing's heavy, or how long do we have to do this
• 16:15
  another three hours, you basically shift that to some
• 16:18
  sort of powerful statement that you also associate with an
• 16:22
  energetic and emotional state, you know, so one of the classic
• 16:25
  ones that I have is this is, this is an easy day, I got this
• 16:29
  piece of cake isn't easy day, I got this piece of cake, I'm
• 16:33
  feeling good. And I'm looking in order to be in Hollywood. And so
• 16:37
  then your internal dialogue, this takes over, and starts to
• 16:40
  drown out any of that other that other dialogue and, and then you
• 16:44
  begin to, you know, this ties into the third skill. The third
• 16:48
  skill is imaging. So that includes visualization, image
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  projection, in terms of the future, what you know, desired
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  outcomes, you know, because if you can see the wind in your
• 16:58
  mind, then you can achieve the win if you believe it and act
• 17:02
  forcefully on it, right. And that's, that clip comes straight
• 17:06
  from Sunsoo, the victorious warrior wins in his mind first,
• 17:09
  and then enters the battle. And so the combination of the second
• 17:13
  skill, which is maintaining and develop, developing and
• 17:16
  maintaining a positive direction, and a positive
• 17:19
  routine, and a positive emotional pattern associated
• 17:23
  with your thoughts. So this is requires like training the brain
• 17:26
  training the mind, to act this way, all the time, especially
• 17:30
  when the challenges appear. This then connects to your ability to
• 17:34
  see yourself succeeding in those challenge, see yourself
• 17:37
  dominating in those challenging environments, being able to
• 17:41
  maintain a clear picture of the wind, in spite of the dark night
• 17:45
  of the soul moments that might come over you or the team and
• 17:48
  you know, you can connect back to that image of the wind and
• 17:52
  go, Oh, yeah, that's it. That's why I'm here. Right. And so, so
• 17:56
  this, this goes, I mean, there's so many subtle skills that are
• 18:00
  involved, how we use our eyes is important. So if I'm, you know,
• 18:04
  if I need to lift the log up, and put it on my other shoulder,
• 18:07
  then I then I shift my mind and my gaze into a very practical
• 18:11
  This is my one task right here, right now I look at the log I,
• 18:15
  you know, I coordinate the movements with my team, you
• 18:18
  know, we breathe together and hoisted up on the command and
• 18:22
  lowered over the and that's, that's the only thing I'm doing
• 18:25
  and thinking of in that moment, K, but then let's say right,
• 18:29
  when that's done, and we're like, get a little relief, it's
• 18:33
  on the other shoulder now, and we're going to take another 100
• 18:36
  paces or so then I softened my gaze, and my gaze, you know, my
• 18:40
  eyes literally go from, you know, pupils dilated, I'm
• 18:43
  focused on a task. And I'm outwardly focused to where my
• 18:47
  eyes go really soft, and almost like they go wide. And I like
• 18:50
  I'm using my peripheral vision. And in that state, your mind
• 18:54
  will soften. And it's almost like, you know, just letting go
• 18:58
  and turning inward. And in that inward, even though my eyes are
• 19:01
  open, I have access to my imagery. And I can go back and
• 19:05
  check in with it, or the image is there for me. Does that make
• 19:09
  sense? So again, this is the tools are how do we use our mind
• 19:12
  effectively, our, our minds are so much more powerful when we
• 19:16
  learn how to use them, right? And so we've been trained here
• 19:20
  in the West to really dominantly we focused on our cognition, our
• 19:24
  rational mind our thinking, right? And then if you're
• 19:27
  creative, they say, oh, yeah, you're creative. So you're using
• 19:31
  that right brain and you have creative powers. Reality is we
• 19:34
  all have the capacity to think better and to avoid our
• 19:38
  cognitive bias. So that's a skill that we have to train for.
• 19:41
  But we all and we also have the capacity to release that to
• 19:45
  literally put that back area of our mind that activate your mind
• 19:49
  to rest like to turn the dial down significantly so that you
• 19:52
  can open up to what I call direct perception perceive
• 19:56
  thinking things just the way they are right now without
• 19:59
  having to judge or analyze or anything. And a massive amount
• 20:02
  of information flows into that. The fourth skill, by the way, is
• 20:06
  task orientation. But if you show up doing everything that I
• 20:10
  just explained, because you've trained to do it, right, it's
• 20:14
  not a cognitive thing. It's an actually, you know, this is a
• 20:17
  very visceral process, then, you know, what you're going to get
• 20:21
  on the other side is energetic synchronization.
• 20:24
  Host: You know, when I think Navy Seal, I think tough as
• 20:28
  nails, I think physical but everything you're describing
• 20:32
  here, this is all mental.
• 20:33
  Mark Divine: Yeah, absolutely. Well, the mental I mean, you're
• 20:36
  essentially the human being has a body in the mind and spirit,
• 20:39
  if you all you focus on it as a body, you're going to be a one
• 20:42
  dimensional being, the body follows the mind. You know, we
• 20:45
  learned that in SEAL training as a tenant of what I teach a SEAL
• 20:48
  Fit, the body follows the mind. And so you could be physically
• 20:52
  fit and still fail at a sporting event, if your mind is not
• 20:55
  conditioned properly, you could be the most talented athlete,
• 20:58
  you know, we've seen this over and over again and still fail,
• 21:01
  you might win one one or two times, but you're gonna fail if
• 21:04
  your mind isn't conditioned, right? So really the mind is is
• 21:07
  is the preeminent everything flows from the mind. And then
• 21:10
  behind the mind is the Spirit knows beyond the scope of this
• 21:13
  conversation, but I could almost make that same statement that
• 21:16
  once you connect with the Spirit, with your Spirit, then
• 21:19
  everything flows from that. And the mind becomes even more
• 21:22
  refined, and finely tuned with universal principles. And, and
• 21:25
  that's when like, your ultimate power comes out. So you're truly
• 21:28
  at your most complete fullest self, when body mind and spirit
• 21:32
  are all aligned. And working together, you know, I mean,
• 21:34
  SEALs who are aligned like that, and everyone's operating that
• 21:38
  way, you know, they literally are shaping their enemy's minds,
• 21:41
  they, you know, seal shape their enemies mind with their violence
• 21:44
  of action and offensive mindset. You know, because everyone is
• 21:47
  thinking, we got this, we are not we are running toward the
• 21:50
  sound of gunfire, we're going to dominate this battle, we're
• 21:53
  going to take it to the enemy, whatever everyone's thinking
• 21:56
  that way. And like I said, at a very subtle level that that
• 21:59
  breeds fear and the enemy and the way we act, and the way we
• 22:03
  think and the way we show up on the battlefield breeds fear and
• 22:06
  the enemy, and they may not even know it, but it happens, right.
• 22:09
  And that's why they you know, their actions and reactions are
• 22:12
  going to be weaker than ours. In Vietnam, this the Vietnamese NVA
• 22:15
  used to call the seals devils with green faces, because of the
• 22:19
  just the way they get you know, the the operators back then
• 22:22
  wouldn't show up in the middle of the jungle, you know, out of
• 22:25
  nowhere, and their faces were painted because they're, you
• 22:28
  know, they were using camouflage and they learn how to stalk and
• 22:31
  to be completely silent as they move through the jungle and they
• 22:34
  would literally just show up and wreak havoc on the enemy and
• 22:37
  then disappear. And that's what I mean like that's, that's an
• 22:41
  energetic that's, you know, obviously there's practical
• 22:43
  skills, but it's also a mindset that the seals had that hey,
• 22:46
  we're gonna be devils green faces and we're gonna scare that
• 22:50
  you know what out of the enemy and they won practically every altercation.
• 22:54
  Host: So where should people go to connect with you if they want
• 22:57
  to learn about SEAL Fit, and you got the unbeatable mind book and
• 22:59
  course and, you know, where do you want people to find you?
• 23:03
  Mark Divine: Well, I think you said that if someone's
• 23:05
  interested in these principles, then there's two books that I
• 23:08
  have out that are that kind of covered down in them one is
• 23:11
  probably the first one to read his unbeatable mind were
• 23:13
  introduced these principles and then second is called The Way of
• 23:16
  the seal both are great books for I hear for for learning
• 23:20
  these principles. And then if you want to find me on the web
• 23:23
  SEAL Fit All one word SCA l fit.com. has a ton of content a
• 23:29
  ton of you know, free resources, and we've got some great video
• 23:33
  training and and that's where all our events, stuff like that.
• 23:36
  Host: Well, then last little thing, man, if if somebody's out
• 23:39
  there listening right now, and they're realizing they're going
• 23:43
  whoa, I am so far from this unbeatable mind like I am so not
• 23:48
  mentally tough, like, I'm losing every battle in my head before
• 23:52
  it even begins. What's like a, you know, one practice, you
• 23:56
  would suggest you go you need to start doing this immediately.
• 23:58
  Mark Divine: Yeah, it's the first skill I alluded to earlier
• 24:00
  in box breathing. And you know, if this the only thing that
• 24:04
  someone gets out of this podcast years, and it's time well spent,
• 24:07
  and so that is simply to begin a daily practice of breathing,
• 24:11
  where you breathe through your nose, your nostrils, with your
• 24:14
  mouth closed, and ideally, your eyes closed and just sit in a
• 24:18
  chair, straight spine and you're going to inhale to a count of
• 24:22
  four or five, hold your breath for a count of five, exhale for
• 24:25
  a count of five, hold your breath for a count of five. So
• 24:28
  you're breathing in a box or a square pattern. And to do this a
• 24:32
  minimum of five minutes, but ideally for 20 minutes a day.
• 24:35
  Best time is probably first thing in the morning when you
• 24:39
  wake up. This is not meditation, but although it has the it's the
• 24:42
  precursor to meditation because it's got the physiological
• 24:46
  benefits of of resetting your your nervous system, bleeding
• 24:49
  off stress, and clarifying your mind and so literally, you're
• 24:52
  going to detox your mind and get your mind really focused. And
• 24:56
  then the secondary benefit is to concentrate ration practice, a
• 25:00
  lot of people fail with meditation, because they, the
• 25:03
  preparatory practice for meditation is concentration. And
• 25:06
  so we need to learn how to concentrate on this one thing.
• 25:09
  And that box breathing pattern is the one thing. And so this
• 25:13
  this practice in itself, I've got, you know, surgeons who use
• 25:16
  it for surgery during their surgery. And, of course, Navy
• 25:19
  SEALs practice this, you know, variations of this, and all
• 25:23
  sorts of people have found some great benefit from it. So I
• 25:26
  would start there.
• 25:28
  Host: Mark Devine. I mean, first of all, thank you for your
• 25:30
  service, and we appreciate you man.
• 25:34
  Mark Divine: Thanks for having me on as well.