Latest / The Articulate Fly / S6, Ep 43: PJ Smith Unravels the Driftless Mysteries

Transcript

S6, Ep 43: PJ Smith Unravels the Driftless Mysteries · The Articulate Fly

0:03
PJ: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.
0:07
PJ: On this episode, I'm joined by PJ Smith of PJ's Guide Service in the Driftless.
0:12
PJ: PJ shares his fly fishing journey, what makes the Driftless a must fish,
0:17
PJ: and his tips for cracking the Driftless code. I think you're really going to enjoy this one.
0:22
PJ: But before we get to the interview, just a couple of housekeeping items.
0:25
PJ: If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave
0:29
PJ: us a rating or review in the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.
0:33
PJ: And we're excited to partner with our friends at Jesse Brown's to bring the
0:37
PJ: Chocolate Factory to Charlotte on May 4th.
0:39
PJ: Blaine will be teaching private tying classes, discussing predator and prey,
0:44
PJ: and sharing his favorite rod, reel, and line combos.
0:47
PJ: Check out the link in the show notes for more details.
0:50
PJ: Now, on to our interview.
0:52
Music: Well, PJ, welcome to the Articulate Fly.
0:55
Intro: Thank you very much for having me uh looking forward to talking all about fly
1:02
Intro: fishing and fishing here in the driftless so yeah thank you oh.
1:06
Music: You bet uh me too and you know i we have a tradition on the articulate fly we like to ask.
1:11
Intro: All of our guests to.
1:12
Music: Share their earliest fishing memory.
1:13
Intro: Earliest fishing memory um that one is probably uh fishing with my grandfather
1:23
Intro: father at our farm in Missouri at a, uh,
1:27
Intro: oh, we've got several farm ponds
1:29
Intro: there and catching largemouth bass and bluegill, uh, conventional gear.
1:35
Intro: And, uh, yeah, it was just, uh, one of those things, uh, you know,
1:40
Intro: I, I got to spend my summers at the farm with my grandparents and, uh, got to fish a lot.
1:46
Intro: And so, yeah, that's kind of the earliest that I can remember walking through the pasture.
1:54
Intro: I think I was probably about two or three years old.
1:57
Intro: And, yeah, just catching big bass on probably a Zepco.
2:03
Music: Yeah, one of those green Zepco 33s probably.
2:07
Intro: Yeah, more than likely that or I don't know.
2:10
Intro: We had several different Zepcos, but they were all pretty much in that same
2:14
Intro: line. uh the closed face uh spinning rails so yeah yeah i.
2:21
Music: I had to uh call no moss.
2:23
Intro: On the.
2:23
Music: Bait casters i can never quite get the hang of those.
2:25
Intro: Yeah as i
2:28
Intro: as i got older i actually got into them for a little
2:31
Intro: bit and uh yeah you can
2:34
Intro: well nowadays they're so like i
2:38
Intro: don't know they're almost engineered near where you can't backlash but back
2:42
Intro: in my day it was definitely one that you had to keep your thumb there and uh
2:47
Intro: throttle it down once you got casting in that but yeah it's uh things have come
2:52
Intro: a long long way that's for sure so yeah.
2:55
Music: So so pj when did you come to the dark side of fly fishing.
3:00
Intro: Oh, the dark side. I had just finished up with college and had started working
3:07
Intro: at the Morton Arboretum.
3:09
Intro: And at that time, I was pretty much fishing ultralights, all kinds of stuff like that.
3:15
Intro: And just really kind of was really intrigued by it. Had seen the movie River Runs Through It.
3:23
Intro: So probably right around 95, 96.
3:28
Intro: My mom had a friend that she worked with and he knew fly fishing and we tend
3:36
Intro: to I had a place that I could fish and then he knew enough about fly fishing to kind of get me started,
3:44
Intro: right at that same time I was dating my wife Donna and so we both fished we went out she kind
3:54
Intro: of fell in love with the casting and i just fell in love with
3:56
Intro: fly fishing and uh we just
4:00
Intro: really i don't know i went head first full throttle do not stop do not pass
4:07
Intro: go i just hammered down into fly fishing just loved it and uh got in with a
4:13
Intro: great shop uh at that time I'm Marcos Varga,
4:17
Intro: ran Flying Field in Glen Ellyn and met some great guys there that just kind of helped me out.
4:26
Intro: Time flies and all that, but Marcos was a huge factor, helped me out greatly,
4:33
Intro: hooked me up with gear that I could afford that was really good quality equipment.
4:41
Intro: I think the first one that I had was a five-weight Orvis Rocky Mountain.
4:48
Intro: That was the first one. I caught a lot of bass on it. I still have it.
4:52
Intro: It's a two-piece. It's old school.
4:56
Intro: So, yeah, that's kind of the start to it. And we just kind of kept going from there.
5:04
Music: Yeah, pretty neat. And so, you know, obviously it's been, you know,
5:08
Music: gosh, almost 30 years, you know, who are some other folks other than Marcos
5:12
Music: that have mentored you on your fly fishing journey? What have they taught you?
5:16
Intro: So, uh, another one that sticks out really well for me is Bill Harrell.
5:21
Intro: Uh, he was a guide up here in the drift list.
5:26
Intro: Um, you know, he really, I mean, that was kind of my first, uh, trip.
5:33
Intro: We kind of took a, uh, um, a trout school up here, uh, in the drift list.
5:40
Intro: And Bill Harrell was, uh, the teacher on that.
5:43
Intro: And it just I don't know
5:46
Intro: we just Don and I fell in love with this area um
5:50
Intro: he kind of taught us to just uh take it
5:53
Intro: all in not just focus on the fishing but take
5:57
Intro: it all in like um you know
6:00
Intro: you need to see what's coming off what
6:03
Intro: bugs and his approach was super simple
6:06
Intro: you just he's like you don't have to know what the name of the
6:09
Intro: fly is you just have to know that there's
6:12
Intro: flies coming off and they're about a size 10 or
6:15
Intro: 12 or 20 whatever and then
6:19
Intro: uh just look in your box and see if you got a fly
6:21
Intro: that kind of matches and um so that was a really good way to learn for me um
6:29
Intro: i'm kind of a visual learner um you know he also had a thing where uh uh he
6:37
Intro: could cast pretty well uh again up here in the driftless, you'd have to cast fairly well,
6:41
Intro: but he's like, it doesn't matter how it gets there. The fish don't care.
6:46
Intro: Once it's on the water, that's when they care. So just kind of worked it that way.
6:54
Intro: And then of course, Marcos at the shop is another guy that kind of mentored
7:00
Intro: me quite a bit, Steve Finnelli.
7:05
Intro: I hope i'm saying that name it's been a long time
7:08
Intro: but uh he was a shop guy there at uh
7:11
Intro: flying field and uh we always used to hang out and he was from montana just
7:16
Intro: would tell awesome stories so i always took it in and that oh probably another
7:22
Intro: real good mentor of mine has been uh vith uh he's He's a guide over in Minnesota.
7:29
Intro: And, oh, we've done many, many trips with Kip, having him guide us for Smallmouth and Muskie.
7:40
Intro: And so he's always been a great guy to just bounce ideas off.
7:46
Intro: And when I decided to become Orvis Endorsed, he was already endorsed and kind
7:52
Intro: of helped me get onto that track. So I'm pretty happy about having all those
7:58
Intro: guys in my corner and kind of cheering me on.
8:01
Intro: So I'm definitely helping out whenever I needed someone to at least listen to
8:08
Intro: me and bounce some ideas off of them.
8:10
Music: Yeah, very neat. And for folks that aren't familiar, you know,
8:14
Music: I know your home waters are located in the Driftless.
8:17
Music: You want to let folks kind of know a little bit more about the area and what
8:20
Music: makes it such a special place to chase trout? out.
8:23
Intro: So the Drupalist where we're at is basically southwest Wisconsin.
8:31
Intro: It's affectionately called the Drupalist. It does go into other states.
8:38
Intro: It goes into Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and a little bit of Illinois.
8:45
Intro: So obviously it's split by the Mississippi River,
8:50
Intro: And what it is, is it's an area that the glaciers basically missed.
8:56
Intro: Every time that the glaciers would advance, this area was kind of like a big, giant rock in a stream.
9:06
Intro: The glaciers just kind of went around. I do know on the Minnesota and Iowa side,
9:13
Intro: there was either one or probably like one or two advancements that actually
9:18
Intro: kind of got into their side. a little bit.
9:23
Intro: But on the Wisconsin side, it's pretty much been untouched.
9:30
Intro: It's an area that steep valleys, erosion is kind of the biggest thing.
9:39
Intro: It kind of started off as a plateau
9:42
Intro: type area and then erosion has kind of caused it to be what it is today.
9:48
Intro: Um so down at the bottom of all these
9:50
Intro: valleys is usually uh spring fred small creeks um and they can be just a few
9:59
Intro: feet wide to 20 or 30 feet wide at the best um so they're pretty small intimate
10:09
Intro: creeks that hold mostly brown and brook trout.
10:17
Intro: The brookies are the natives here, and then obviously browns were brought in early on in that.
10:26
Intro: But the spring-fed water helps keep the water clean and cold.
10:31
Intro: There is a lot of natural reproducing trout, out, but they do some...
10:40
Intro: Uh stocking at times uh it's just uh numbers and then um you know sometimes
10:47
Intro: we've had some flood events that kind of change things up so um there is uh
10:52
Intro: stocking that does go on in that,
10:55
Intro: so yeah definitely very special uh there's areas around here that are like no other place on earth,
11:03
Intro: um you know you can really look into it as you get towards the mississippi um
11:10
Intro: you can definitely kind of see where it uh you know the tall bluffs and,
11:16
Intro: just the sheer rock cliffs that are uh that are there it's pretty spectacular,
11:22
Intro: and then all throughout this region you can just go up and down all the valleys
11:27
Intro: and uh get lost but you always seem to find your way out of them so definitely very fun very.
11:33
Music: Very neat and i would imagine too you know having relatively small low gradient
11:39
Music: streams that don't have a lot of structure in them probably makes for a pretty
11:44
Music: technical fishery right.
11:45
Intro: Oh yeah it is uh i like to say it's it's definitely the hardest easiest place
11:52
Intro: to catch trout um they uh they are spooky but yet there's so many of them uh
12:00
Intro: you know if you can get your fly into the water you can,
12:04
Intro: pretty much catch something um we just have the numbers uh per mile um i've
12:11
Intro: heard as much as you know,
12:13
Intro: 4,000 per mile, give or take,
12:16
Intro: uh, which is quite a bit, um,
12:20
Intro: on that same aspect we have uh with them
12:23
Intro: being so small um the edges
12:27
Intro: grow up uh that's why right now here
12:30
Intro: in the springtime now that the snow and.
12:32
Intro: Everything's kind of mushed all the uh the brush
12:36
Intro: and weeds and stuff down it's.
12:39
Intro: It's pretty easy to get around but at the same time that
12:42
Intro: makes it really tough because they can see you coming from
12:45
Intro: a long ways away um so yeah
12:49
Intro: so is the is the year goes on uh the
12:52
Intro: weeds and uh grass and all that
12:55
Intro: brush starts growing pretty heavy and uh
12:58
Intro: it just makes it tougher and tougher to get that cast
13:01
Intro: in there um and that's where accuracy
13:05
Intro: is a huge deal um being
13:08
Intro: able to just understand like uh like
13:11
Intro: a good roll cast bow and arrow cast um and
13:16
Intro: i call it like my little flip cast even uh
13:19
Intro: doing some downstream work just letting the
13:22
Intro: fly kind of um trickle down and that
13:25
Intro: is is definitely helpful um there
13:28
Intro: are some open areas uh some of the some of
13:31
Intro: the landowners are actually doing a little bit of mowing and that
13:34
Intro: so uh you know there is
13:37
Intro: there is some stuff that uh as a beginner you can
13:40
Intro: get into uh i've been you
13:43
Intro: know obviously fishing up here for so long you start learning all those areas
13:47
Intro: and and that so uh we can go from fairly easy uh easy to get into not a lot
13:55
Intro: of brush not a lot of trees to uh super technical if you want to get into that
14:00
Intro: so there there's a lot of variety.
14:03
Intro: For sure but it is uh it makes
14:06
Intro: for fun fishing um and it'll just make you a better better fisher person all
14:14
Intro: the way around because it uh once you can fish here and catch fish you can go
14:19
Intro: anywhere and be able to cast and be accurate so it's definitely a helpful thing too yeah.
14:26
Music: And so you know in terms of i understand you know the the challenge the casting
14:30
Music: challenges you know when you've got tall brush and.
14:32
Intro: You can't.
14:33
Music: Really have a back cast, but, you know, what about some sort of on the water
14:38
Music: strategies, you know, once you've got your fly in the water where you're,
14:41
Music: I imagine you're fishing to really clear water.
14:44
Music: Um, probably a lot of it's probably pretty shallow and it's also probably relatively smooth.
14:50
Music: You know, what are some suggestions for folks to be a little bit more effective in those situations?
14:56
Intro: So once you, uh, once you get that fly in
14:58
Intro: the the water um you know
15:01
Intro: everybody's heard of a dead drift um and
15:05
Intro: that but we actually will find uh if we do our dry fly fishing actually adding
15:12
Intro: a little uh oh we call it the i call it the dry fly shake um you kind of get
15:18
Intro: that fly to kind of move a little bit um live bugs move so um.
15:26
Intro: You know, you need to put a little action into them. So I don't mind skating
15:31
Intro: a little bit on some of my flies.
15:35
Intro: They'll take it on the swing, which is pretty cool. If you're doing like nymphing
15:41
Intro: at that, just trying to like get those flies in without a huge splash.
15:47
Intro: Again, it's pretty hard with the heavier tungsten and that.
15:51
Intro: Um so i i try
15:54
Intro: to limit um trying to
15:57
Intro: do a huge splash sometimes just adding a little extra tippet to make that presentation
16:03
Intro: a little softer um i do kind of i fall into the keep it really simple so all
16:11
Intro: of my leaders start off at seven and a half foot either a three or a
16:15
Intro: 4X and then I just add on tippet as I need it.
16:19
Intro: That way I kind of know exactly how long my leaders are most of the time,
16:24
Intro: unless I've had to cut them apart and make them super long and that.
16:30
Intro: But most of the time you can get away with something like that.
16:35
Intro: On a real open stream where the fish are being a little more finicky,
16:40
Intro: adding a little more tippet is definitely helpful it doesn't have to be smaller
16:46
Intro: but it just gives that a little easier presentation and then um i try to uh
16:53
Intro: i'll use a more of a dry fly as opposed to an indicator.
16:58
Intro: Um especially the harder indicators like um the ones that are like uh made of
17:05
Intro: plastic and that they work good but they're just they're a little bit too much
17:09
Intro: on these small creeks so i go with a.
17:13
Intro: Um oh like a larger almost
17:16
Intro: like a hopper a rubber leg stimulator uh we
17:20
Intro: have a fly around here called the hippie stomp it's actually
17:23
Intro: from out west uh highly effective around
17:26
Intro: here and the nice thing about
17:29
Intro: that is is like now you've actually put two hooks on
17:32
Intro: the water so your chances of hooking a fish are
17:34
Intro: uh are doubled now so uh it
17:37
Intro: makes it pretty easy um those foam indicator
17:41
Intro: style flies are uh really buoyant
17:44
Intro: so they stay up pretty good so yeah so it's again
17:48
Intro: i try to keep it pretty simple there's a lot of
17:51
Intro: good techniques like anytime we
17:54
Intro: get a a rain around here uh we
17:57
Intro: usually will try to switch over to streamers as well
18:00
Intro: um because once that water stains up boy
18:03
Intro: they'll they'll actively go after streamers and stuff
18:06
Intro: so it's kind of um there's
18:10
Intro: a lot here you can learn a lot of different techniques a
18:13
Intro: lot of euro guys around here uh and that
18:17
Intro: and that's always something that we kind of dabble in
18:20
Intro: a little bit it's something that is kind of on our to-do list
18:23
Intro: around here as well uh learning that a little bit more but um yeah so it it's
18:31
Intro: one of those that you can kind of run the gamut if you're a dry fly guy you
18:36
Intro: can do really well nymph streamers so yeah Yeah.
18:41
Music: What's not to like is they like to say, and, you know, PJ, when did you get the guide bug?
18:49
Intro: Oh, the guide bug was probably not too long after I started fishing up here.
18:58
Intro: I think I'm right now I'm in my 14th season, give or take.
19:04
Intro: I'd have to look back and see if I can find my original guide license that I had.
19:10
Intro: But yeah, I just we were coming up here so often.
19:14
Intro: Uh you know we we would come
19:17
Intro: up here throughout the summer and fish and every
19:20
Intro: once in a while i'd run into bill and uh
19:24
Intro: i you know i'd always talk about
19:26
Intro: it like oh it'd be kind of cool to be a guide and all that
19:29
Intro: and finally one day he kind of just told me
19:32
Intro: he's like you know either do it or don't do
19:35
Intro: it but he goes you just just shut up about it like
19:38
Intro: he goes i don't care what you do but you've worked
19:41
Intro: here you've done enough fishing in here um he
19:45
Intro: goes just just do it so that was oh i
19:49
Intro: think i had been fishing up here for almost 15 years
19:52
Intro: uh so uh yeah that's what that was a push that i needed i'd always kind of helped
20:01
Intro: friends when we were fishing together um so i I guess I was kind of guiding
20:06
Intro: them without actually guiding them, you know, a friend trip.
20:09
Intro: I always wanted to make sure that they caught fish and whether that was fishing
20:15
Intro: for bass or panfish or trout,
20:18
Intro: you know, I'd go on some of our trips with the club that we belong to in Illinois, Drift.
20:31
Intro: And then I'd always just kind of help out the new guys that weren't totally
20:36
Intro: sure how to do some stuff.
20:38
Intro: So yeah, that kind of got me started into it and then I got my guide license
20:43
Intro: for Wisconsin and yeah, just kind of,
20:50
Intro: Went from there, was working a full-time job and pretty much driving up a lot
20:57
Intro: of weekends and doing the guide thing.
21:00
Music: Yeah. And so did you always just guide for yourself or did you kind of start
21:05
Music: guiding through shops in the area?
21:08
Intro: No, I've always just been an independent.
21:13
Intro: At that time, I just didn't feel confident enough to go into a shop and that.
21:20
Intro: Probably should have at times, but again, hindsight's always 20-20.
21:24
Intro: And as far as things go now, I'm happy that I could do what I can do.
21:30
Intro: I did it all on my own, but with a lot of help from friends and family and that.
21:37
Intro: So I just stayed independent.
21:42
Intro: 2018, I left my full-time job and went full-time into the guiding world.
21:47
Intro: Uh at that same time i uh i
21:51
Intro: decided i uh went out to
21:54
Intro: an orvis guide rendezvous really liked
21:57
Intro: their program and decided to uh become orvis
22:00
Intro: endorsed so i guess that's kind of the thing there and my wife at the time was
22:07
Intro: actually working for orvis in uh madison at their store so uh yeah so she she's
22:14
Intro: kind of been on the the shop side of it i've been uh
22:17
Intro: just the guide and the guy that ties the knots and rows the boat.
22:21
Intro: So, um, yeah, I just, uh, you know, that's what I like doing.
22:28
Intro: I, you know, that, yeah, just guiding and helping people, uh,
22:33
Intro: get into some fish and all that and hoping they have a fun day.
22:37
Music: So, you know, it's interesting. We're, I think, uh, we're of a similar vintage.
22:41
Music: Tell me a little bit more about how you made the decision to kind of quit the
22:44
Music: safe full-time thing and become a full-time fishing guide.
22:48
Intro: Yeah that one is a good one yeah
22:51
Intro: i uh i graduated college um and
22:55
Intro: graduated college on a saturday drove
22:58
Intro: home sunday started work monday at the morton arboretum and uh 26 years later
23:06
Intro: uh the day before i turned 50 i left there and became a full-time guide um yeah i mean i had done a
23:16
Intro: full-time job in the Chicagoland area.
23:20
Intro: And I don't know, you just get to a point where you just need to make a change and you're.
23:29
Intro: Yeah, I mean, I was, yeah, I just had that drawing to just become a guide.
23:35
Intro: That's what I wanted to do.
23:37
Intro: I figured if I didn't do it by the time I was 50, I wouldn't ever do it.
23:42
Intro: And then I'd have that regret.
23:43
Intro: So, yeah, it was a tough one.
23:47
Intro: Stepping off that cliff was very tough.
23:51
Intro: You know, I mean, we were smart enough to know that it wasn't going to be easy.
23:59
Intro: You know, I had been guiding for many years part-time in that.
24:04
Intro: And then all of a sudden, now I'm going to hopefully try to make a living out of it.
24:07
Intro: But we had planned, we had savings, and we actually had a house up here in the Duraflis.
24:16
Intro: So it kind of made things easy to transition.
24:21
Intro: And that, so yeah, just kind of made that jump and hoped for the best.
24:27
Intro: And I held on to a few things.
24:30
Intro: I kept my CDL license just in case I needed to go back and be a truck driver,
24:35
Intro: a heavy equipment operator.
24:37
Intro: But yeah, I've never looked back. I've been happy after that.
24:42
Intro: Wake up every day and feel kind of blessed to be here.
24:47
Intro: Luckily with my wife being in the industry and being understanding,
24:52
Intro: she was right there with me and said, yeah, let's do it.
24:56
Intro: So, um, but it was tough.
24:58
Intro: Uh, there's no doubt about it. There's days that I, I just hope that,
25:03
Intro: uh, someone calls and books a trip.
25:06
Music: So is that kind of the biggest challenge is just kind of keeping your plate
25:12
Music: full or are there other things that have kind of surprised you kind of making
25:15
Music: that transition from a kind of a safer gig to, you know, working for yourself?
25:21
Intro: Um, yeah, I would definitely say just keeping busy, uh, you know, COVID didn't help.
25:28
Intro: It, it helped, but it didn't help, uh, at the same time, uh,
25:32
Intro: got a lot of people outside.
25:34
Intro: Uh, so there are a lot of people that needed, uh, help in getting into fly fishing, uh, on that same thing.
25:45
Intro: It, uh, it didn't help because we were shut down the entire time that COVID was,
25:52
Intro: happening in that so uh so that
25:55
Intro: was a little tough um right now we're just
25:58
Intro: we're kind of really ramping back up we're doing
26:01
Intro: a lot of shows doing uh programs at
26:04
Intro: shop wherever we can go into uh uh like tu meetings and other uh clubs we're
26:12
Intro: trying to do meetings and um i've got several uh PowerPoint programs that I
26:17
Intro: give throughout kind of this upper Midwest area.
26:23
Intro: So, yeah, so I kind of focus on that. That's how word of mouth kind of helps too.
26:28
Intro: And then obviously being Orvis endorsed now is really big for us because that
26:35
Intro: really has kind of pushed it a little bit more. but we're always,
26:39
Intro: always looking to fill some more, more dates.
26:43
Intro: Um, you know, there's, there's obviously, um.
26:49
Intro: You know, the off season, we're looking at trying to fill some of those that
26:54
Intro: time with some other stuff that we're looking into.
26:58
Music: Yeah. And so, you know, it's interesting because, I mean, can you talk a little
27:02
Music: bit more about kind of the process of becoming Orvis Endorsed?
27:05
Music: I know, you know, it's kind of a little bit of a mystery, right?
27:08
Music: And then there's a lot of lore around it.
27:11
Music: But can you kind of tell us a little bit about the process and kind of why you
27:15
Music: thought having that credential was so important?
27:18
Intro: Um a lot of it had to do with uh kip
27:21
Intro: v he uh oh i
27:24
Intro: i kind of was talking to him about it and uh we ended up going to an ogr out
27:30
Intro: in asheville um and just you know their their whole program the fact that they
27:38
Intro: uh were letting at that time they were uh anybody that was kind of on a pro
27:44
Intro: -staff, like a guide could come out and go to their stuff.
27:51
Intro: And it just kind of made it nice and an easy transition.
27:57
Intro: You know, they were pretty open and pretty forthcoming with all their information.
28:03
Intro: You know, they talked about how they were revamping some of their program and
28:09
Intro: they were going to kind of start putting guides first again.
28:14
Intro: You know, if you needed help with some stuff, they would help you get that.
28:19
Intro: You know, if you needed rods repaired and stuff like that, although now it's
28:23
Intro: a little different, you know, it's easier to get parts and stuff now.
28:29
Intro: So I just I and I enjoyed that part of it.
28:32
Intro: Again, when I got back from that, that trip, I talked a little bit more with
28:37
Intro: Kip and then I reached out to Orvis. And we basically set up a.
28:44
Intro: A time to meet. So they, they actually kind of vetted me.
28:48
Intro: Uh, I know there was other people that I'm sure were called and asked if I was, uh, legit.
28:55
Intro: And, um, so yeah, it kind of, that kind of started it.
29:00
Intro: And then I ended up having to basically do a trip, uh, with Pete Kutzer from
29:05
Intro: Morris and, um, yeah, so it, it was kind of weird cause it was actually a musky trip.
29:12
Intro: Um by the time he could get out
29:15
Intro: uh it was
29:18
Intro: muskie time uh trout fishing had already closed
29:21
Intro: so we did a muskie trip and ironically that
29:24
Intro: day the whole week before it was super nice weather and all that and then he
29:29
Intro: comes out and the weather is absolutely terrible uh it rained so much there's
29:34
Intro: probably eight inches of water in the bottom of my boat um so that made it fun
29:40
Intro: uh but we moved some fish And, uh, yeah,
29:43
Intro: it just, that's, uh.
29:45
Intro: You know, it was fun and they realized that, uh, I was really just wanting to,
29:53
Intro: uh, make trips, uh, an adventure and, uh, take care of clients.
29:58
Intro: And, uh, I wasn't just some guy looking to just get into it all about the money or, or whatever.
30:06
Intro: It's like, I, I want people to enjoy their trip. It's they're paying me to basically
30:12
Intro: go on a vacation and that.
30:14
Intro: So, so, yeah. So I was approved and I think my approval went through sometime in 2019 or early 2020.
30:25
Intro: And so I became an enormous endorsed guide by then.
30:30
Music: Yeah. So it's just in time for COVID, right?
30:34
Intro: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, not exciting, but, you know, that time was a little
30:42
Intro: rough because I was like, wow, did I make a mistake?
30:46
Intro: But we got through it. You know, it's stuff that I can't control.
30:53
Intro: So I try to, you know, not focus on that and just focus on what I can control.
31:03
Intro: It's kind of like the weather. I can't control the weather.
31:06
Intro: I can't, you know, control stuff like that. So, I try to not dwell on that.
31:12
Intro: It's hard not to, but that's what I try to at least strive for.
31:20
Music: Yeah. And I guess, so, you know, they vet you and then, you know,
31:25
Music: you're kind of put on the website.
31:26
Music: And I know they have great support services because I've talked to other Orvis Endorse guides.
31:30
Music: And it's like, if you break a rod, they're literally FedExing rides out to you.
31:35
Music: And then I guess, right, there's an annual membership fee to kind of stay in
31:38
Music: the program. Is that generally how it works?
31:40
Intro: Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
31:42
Intro: Yep. Yeah. And they, they do still make sure like they, they come out,
31:47
Intro: um, or, you know, with COVID and that that's kind of changed some stuff up, but, um,
31:52
Intro: you know, I, I talked to Pete Kutzer and, and that, uh, I wouldn't say frequently,
31:59
Intro: but I talked to him pretty much, uh, yearly, if not more.
32:03
Intro: Um, so we're just making sure things are on the right track.
32:07
Intro: Um, you know, obviously Obviously, if there's any problems with clients and
32:11
Intro: they call Orvis, you know, and it becomes a problem and they obviously talk
32:17
Intro: to you, but not any of that,
32:19
Intro: you know, we don't have problems with clients.
32:24
Intro: They, uh, I, again, I try to work with them and do the best that I can, uh, for everybody.
32:32
Intro: So, um, so yeah, if you, uh, if you strive to reach their goals,
32:38
Intro: uh, you don't have problems. So, yeah.
32:41
Music: And which, which is a great segue into my next question, PJ is what do you think
32:45
Music: is the secret to being a good guide?
32:49
Intro: Well, you know, everybody will be like, oh, you got to catch a ton of fish and
32:53
Intro: all that. And I can tell you right now, you know, I do catch a lot of fish at times.
33:01
Intro: But to be honest, to be a good guide, you have to be able to listen and kind
33:07
Intro: of read people, understand them, understand what they're not saying to you,
33:12
Intro: along with what they are saying to you.
33:17
Intro: I've seen a lot of guys out there and they're like, oh, I, you know,
33:21
Intro: 100 fish days and all that. And to be honest with you, when things are good,
33:25
Intro: yeah, you can get a hundred fish day.
33:27
Intro: It's not an impossibility, but it's the days that you don't catch any fish.
33:33
Intro: That's when a true guide is going to shine.
33:38
Intro: You know, most of the time, like I said, when it's easy, it's easy.
33:42
Intro: When it's hard, that's when you'll find out who a real good guide is.
33:47
Intro: Um, so I really try to strive for just, um, being the best I can be,
33:55
Intro: uh, giving 110% of myself, uh,
34:00
Intro: Uh, yeah, I mean, I just, you know, I want them to be happy.
34:05
Intro: I want them to go home and feel like they had a good time.
34:10
Intro: Um, yeah, I do try to get them fish.
34:14
Intro: Uh, but some of it's not all about that. A lot of my clients,
34:18
Intro: they want to learn something.
34:19
Intro: So I try to teach them like, you know, we talk about the drift list or we talk
34:23
Intro: about like casting or we talk about different whys and stuff like that.
34:28
Intro: So it's not always about that.
34:31
Intro: You just, you know, you try to help them kind of on their journey as well.
34:40
Intro: They, you know, they've trusted you to take them out.
34:45
Intro: So, yeah, so I try to teach and, you know, if anything goes wrong,
34:50
Intro: I try to be there to help solve their problem.
34:55
Intro: Them um so yeah so i just
34:58
Intro: uh um yeah listen to their needs and uh that's kind of hard for some people
35:06
Intro: because they they don't always like i'm a really i'm a good listener and i can
35:11
Intro: i can sense when something's not going right even if they don't see anything you can just,
35:17
Intro: I can just tell when something's not right and then I'll just kind of keep prying until I get it.
35:23
Intro: And sometimes we just sit back a little bit, talk a little bit,
35:28
Intro: you know, because sometimes it's not always about just the fishing part of it.
35:35
Intro: I mean, I get a lot of people that have told me a lot more than I I wanted to know.
35:40
Intro: You know, it's like, you know, people have outside lives. And,
35:44
Intro: um, sometimes when you're fishing, it, it comes out quite a bit.
35:49
Music: So yeah, it's like being a bartender on the water without a beer, right?
35:54
Intro: Exactly. I'm a really cheap therapist. That's for sure. Yeah.
35:59
Music: And so, you know, what do you think PJ is the biggest misconception that people
36:04
Music: have about the life of a fishing guide?
36:07
Intro: Oh, well, you know, if you look at Instagram, it's, it's all perfect.
36:11
Intro: I think every day is a bluebird day and you catch tons of fish and you get free
36:18
Intro: deals and everybody gives you a fly rod.
36:22
Intro: And it's just super easy. And that is probably the biggest thing that is so untrue.
36:33
Intro: There's a lot of days where, you know, like, well, I've got a trip tomorrow.
36:39
Intro: And I've been working on this trip for the last two or three days now.
36:44
Intro: So I I've scouted water, checked everything out, got my boat already, um, checked all my rods.
36:52
Intro: So it it's, you know, it's not just the day that you're on the water.
36:56
Intro: It's it's the days beforehand.
36:59
Intro: I planned out a meal prep and all that.
37:03
Intro: Um, you know, just making sure everything's ready, uh, going through flies.
37:10
Intro: Um, so yeah, so it, it's, it's a lot more.
37:13
Intro: And then on top of it, when, uh, you're not getting those calls or you got days
37:18
Intro: off and, um, you know, you're, I'm, I'm going to the laundromat doing laundry and stuff like that.
37:26
Intro: So it's, it's not all glamorous. risks there's a
37:28
Intro: lot of uh can be downtime um and
37:33
Intro: then you know the seasonal depression is
37:37
Intro: kind of a weird one too uh during the winter
37:40
Intro: when we're not fishing as much um that
37:44
Intro: can kind of get to you know you get the gray days and
37:47
Intro: you're just like oh my gosh and uh some days
37:50
Intro: you're like i'm just gonna sleep in and other days
37:53
Intro: you're like okay i need to get out of bed and get some work done so
37:56
Intro: um but yeah it's not always uh
37:59
Intro: what you see uh instagram's showing
38:02
Intro: you just probably the smallest and just the best
38:05
Intro: parts um you know it's tough i mean you know from paying all your insurance
38:12
Intro: and guide fees and uh making sure that you're legal and all that it's it all adds up um So, again,
38:22
Intro: it's not just calling yourself a guide. It's really working hard at it.
38:28
Music: Yeah, it's funny you say that. I was talking to somebody earlier today and,
38:31
Music: you know, I was trying to explain to them they don't really fly fish,
38:35
Music: but we're kind of talking about the guide game and, you know,
38:37
Music: that whole disconnect where, like, you know, the client is there to have fun,
38:41
Music: but you're working, right?
38:44
Intro: Yes.
38:44
Music: And so that's a huge thing. And, you know, what they don't understand is,
38:48
Music: you know, if you meet them at 730, you probably got up at 530 to get the boat ready to do lunches.
38:54
Music: And then at the end of the day, you've got to go home and clean the boat out,
38:58
Music: you know, maybe wash it and get ready for the next day.
39:00
Music: And so, you know, a 10 or 12 day on the water is really a 16 hour day without doing anything.
39:05
Music: And, you know, it's funny because I talked to my buddies that got out West and
39:09
Music: it's like, you know, they got 13, 14 days in a row and they're so excited to
39:13
Music: get a laundry day. It's crazy.
39:14
Intro: Yeah exactly yeah i mean
39:17
Intro: uh it is uh yeah it's it's it's a tough life it's it's fun there is definitely
39:25
Intro: days where you're just like yeah this is exactly why i guide all the time and
39:30
Intro: i've you know i you try to have more of those days than days you're like oh
39:35
Intro: my gosh why did i decide to
39:37
Intro: do this for a living um but i mean and i i'm definitely not at that point i've
39:43
Intro: been doing this for a long time and every day i'm just happy to be out on the
39:48
Intro: water and that but it's uh.
39:52
Intro: Yeah. I mean, I have to do laundry and, uh, you know, we have some lodging at
39:57
Intro: our house and, and stuff.
39:59
Intro: And, uh, so yeah, I'm like making beds, all the glamorous stuff,
40:04
Intro: you know, going to the grocery and getting groceries for the next week and making
40:09
Intro: sure I've got everybody's, uh, uh, dietary needs taken care of,
40:14
Intro: uh, you know, so, and then making lunches that, uh, we're all going to be happy with.
40:19
Intro: I try to simplify it as best I can, but then sometimes I try to change it up
40:24
Intro: and maybe a little more gourmet.
40:26
Intro: If I got somebody that's like got a birthday or something special is going on,
40:31
Intro: or, um, you know, I, I've had some clients that have, uh, uh,
40:36
Intro: needs that, uh, you know, like celiac.
40:38
Intro: So I got to make sure everything's cleaned out. And, uh, so they,
40:42
Intro: you know, so they have a good day cause I don't want them to get sick or anything like that.
40:48
Intro: So, um, yeah, so it, it's a lot of, uh, planning.
40:52
Intro: Uh, I take a lot of notes, uh, with all my clients, so I know what's going on
40:59
Intro: and, and that, so I just, uh, yeah, I mean, it's long days.
41:05
Intro: I do try to, I'm definitely not doing the, uh, hours like I used to do when
41:11
Intro: I was a heavy equipment operator.
41:13
Intro: Some of those days were, almost 24 hours
41:17
Intro: straight but uh um yeah there's
41:20
Intro: days i get in late and then you know if you're hosting some
41:24
Intro: people now you're also spending more time with them afterwards and that and
41:30
Intro: i you know once you get done with that now you've got to come home and get ready
41:33
Intro: for the next day so uh we try to
41:37
Intro: be uh take care of ourselves though too because uh you don't want to get,
41:44
Intro: too over the top uh so that you have a meltdown in that so yeah.
41:48
Music: That's that's no good and you know the other thing too right is we talked about
41:52
Music: it a little bit you also guide for smallmouth and muskie right.
41:55
Intro: Yeah i i will run my boat for uh smallies pike and muskie um so i run a stealth
42:04
Intro: craft uh drift boat and then i just added a stealth craft raft uh so i'm one of their ambassadors,
42:12
Intro: and that's really broadened my...
42:18
Intro: Um repertoire for for guiding for fish um
42:22
Intro: you know the the driftless is awesome and
42:25
Intro: and all that but we're starting to see uh summers
42:29
Intro: where the temps are just getting way too hot for
42:32
Intro: the trout so we uh you know
42:35
Intro: years ago i was like you know i if i want
42:38
Intro: to be a more rounded guide i need to add this uh
42:42
Intro: aspect to fishing and and
42:45
Intro: it's kind of cool i've even uh i even do a little bit
42:48
Intro: of trout stuff early season i'll run
42:51
Intro: my boat uh for trout here in
42:54
Intro: the drift lists and one of the few spots you can get them
42:56
Intro: but uh yeah i mean smallies pike and musky that they're super fun uh adds a
43:04
Intro: whole new game to it uh the rods are much bigger you can uh you know the cool
43:09
Intro: part Part is you're in a boat and you can see some pretty cool water and all of those fish are, boy,
43:16
Intro: they love to eat and they put a good bend in your rod. So it's fun.
43:23
Music: And so are you chasing those guys kind of in the middle of the summer when it's
43:27
Music: kind of too hot for trout?
43:28
Music: So it's kind of trout early and trout late and then smallmouth,
43:31
Music: pike and muskie in the middle and maybe some muskie kind of at the end of the season?
43:35
Intro: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. When it starts getting too warm here,
43:39
Intro: it's an ideal time to switch over to smallmouths.
43:43
Intro: I kind of tell people I'm and like this year, especially we were even though we just got some water.
43:52
Intro: You know, I've got to make sure that the trout survive. So I will forego doing
43:57
Intro: trips here in the Driftless, even though I could probably find water that's cold enough.
44:03
Intro: But, um, so yeah, we'll definitely go after them, uh, during the hot months.
44:10
Intro: Um, I do a little bit of musky stuff after I'm done with my trout.
44:15
Intro: Like October 15th is the last day for trout in Wisconsin here.
44:20
Intro: And then I'll switch over and we start chasing, uh, musky for a little bit.
44:25
Intro: Uh, I usually go until about October, maybe a little bit into November.
44:30
Intro: And then I usually just kind of take a break.
44:33
Intro: I like to deer hunt in Missouri, so head to my grandparents' farm for that.
44:38
Intro: So I just kind of wrap it up. Usually by then things are getting cold,
44:43
Intro: and it's nice to take a break.
44:45
Intro: I'm usually pretty fried from guiding the whole season and that,
44:51
Intro: so it's good to take a break and rest.
44:55
Intro: You know, head and just kind of do my own thing, sit in the,
44:59
Intro: sit in the deer woods for a while and, and do that. So kind of a nice break.
45:06
Music: Yeah, absolutely. I wait for some guys to come eat some acorns, right?
45:10
Intro: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And, and they're pretty good eating too.
45:16
Intro: So don't mind filling the freezer with them.
45:19
Music: Yeah. And so, so PJ, what is a day on the water like like with you you want
45:23
Music: to kind of give folks an idea of like you know what what it looks like to get
45:26
Music: on a boat or to wade with you for a day.
45:28
Intro: Sure um so my
45:31
Intro: uh walk and wade stuff uh you know we'll just meet usually in the morning uh
45:37
Intro: depending on you know i may meet you in town or uh you know if you're staying
45:43
Intro: here at our place we get going we try to we may have breakfast i always try
45:49
Intro: to start with a good breakfast,
45:51
Intro: whether I've got to grab it at a gas station or something, but I always need
45:56
Intro: a little breakfast to get going.
45:58
Intro: So we'll either go to breakfast or make sure everybody's got breakfast. It's a good way to start.
46:05
Intro: And then we'll talk over what's going on.
46:09
Intro: And then we'll get out to the water fairly quick.
46:12
Intro: Again, depends on the conditions. If it's a warm one, we try to start pretty
46:17
Intro: early in the early, early season.
46:22
Intro: If it's really cold, I have no problem waiting a while until it gets a little
46:27
Intro: bit warmer out at 9.30, 10 o'clock time.
46:33
Intro: But during the late spring into summer part, we're probably getting going by
46:39
Intro: 7. And trying to get out to the water, I'll get everybody geared up.
46:45
Intro: I usually try to run down and check water temps real quick just to make sure
46:50
Intro: that the streams haven't warmed up too much.
46:55
Intro: Uh, and then, uh, once everybody's kind of geared up, we just, uh, get started.
47:01
Intro: We're, you know, we're rigging rods, uh, you know, starting in an area.
47:06
Intro: And especially if you're someone that I don't know, we'll go to a spot that's
47:11
Intro: maybe a little more open.
47:14
Intro: Um, cause you know, some people, uh, like to exaggerate how good a caster they are.
47:21
Intro: Um so yeah in about five minutes i can tell if
47:24
Intro: you're a good caster not a good caster need a little work and
47:28
Intro: need to get a little warmed up putting that but
47:31
Intro: uh yeah we'll be hitting some water with that's got
47:34
Intro: fish in it i kind of vary it up there's obviously
47:38
Intro: a lot of water here on the wisconsin side uh so we'll we'll hit different areas
47:45
Intro: uh then we usually break for lunch and then head back to the truck and we'll
47:51
Intro: either move or we'll just tailgate and have lunch on the back of the truck.
47:56
Intro: Or I've got a couple of spots that I can picnic and stuff like that.
48:03
Intro: So we'll have a lunch.
48:06
Intro: Again, I usually switch spots. It's kind of nice to vary it up.
48:10
Intro: And then we'll get back on the water after lunch and basically chase trout some more.
48:17
Intro: Um you know and we'll try to
48:20
Intro: fish for about eight hours give or take um you know if i start seeing bugs coming
48:26
Intro: off or we're getting to that uh you know almost like dark 30 time uh you know
48:32
Intro: we may stay out a little bit longer um some guys ask for kind of doing some
48:37
Intro: uh almost like night fishing,
48:40
Intro: and we can bury that up too usually at lunchtime we'll uh head back in and then
48:46
Intro: like kind of take a little siesta.
48:50
Intro: Uh recharge a little bit and then head out later in
48:53
Intro: the evening so there there's a lot of variable that we can
48:56
Intro: do with uh with my
48:58
Intro: kind of fishing uh obviously if we're in a boat we're doing it a little different
49:03
Intro: we're getting in the boat we're going down and having lunch on the river and
49:07
Intro: then you know so it's an a to b uh type trip um so yeah so once we're done we
49:14
Intro: just kind of wrap things up,
49:18
Intro: you know if someone's asking about flies we go over flies and stuff like that,
49:25
Intro: and then depending on what their schedule is we may go out to dinner,
49:31
Intro: you know maybe a cocktail on
49:35
Intro: the back of the truck or whatever or just had
49:38
Intro: our separate ways however people want it their day and often you know that's
49:45
Intro: that's kind of how it is it And hopefully everybody walks away happy and feel
49:52
Intro: they got fulfilled and doing some fishing with me.
49:56
Music: Pretty neat. And I know you mentioned this earlier. You and your wife are teaching
50:00
Music: some classes and workshops. You want to let folks know kind of what you have coming up?
50:06
Intro: Sure. We are, again, the way we learned was doing a trout school.
50:13
Intro: That's kind of how I met Bill Harrell.
50:16
Intro: And now that we do guiding and stuff, we figured we wanted to kind of help give
50:23
Intro: back and offer these classes as well.
50:28
Intro: And my wife is a certified casting instructor, so we do some trout schools.
50:34
Intro: We got a couple of basically beginner schools.
50:38
Intro: We're doing two of them. uh may
50:41
Intro: 4th and 5th is going to be a beginner class
50:44
Intro: um and it's co-ed uh we've got i believe we have two two filled and we still
50:53
Intro: have room for a couple more people and then may 18th and 19th my wife is doing
50:59
Intro: a women's beginner school for uh trout fishing um,
51:06
Intro: So, yeah, and then our program, we have lodging here, and then we also do breakfast and lunch for people.
51:15
Intro: So it's kind of all-inclusive. Dinner is usually out on the town.
51:21
Intro: That way we can help spread the wealth, and it helps show you what's around
51:27
Intro: town and all the fun little restaurants that are around the Driftless here.
51:34
Intro: And then we're hoping to do a smallmouth trip in July, get a couple of boats together and do that.
51:44
Intro: That's going to be July 12th to the 15th.
51:47
Intro: That one's still a little bit of a work in progress thing.
51:50
Intro: And then in August, August is kind of a fun time here in the Driftless.
51:57
Intro: We're going to do a hopper dropper mousing weekend. weekend
52:01
Intro: uh and that's august 16th and
52:04
Intro: 18th uh we hope people can
52:07
Intro: get here early on friday so we head out friday evening uh try to get into a
52:14
Intro: spot that's fairly easy to wade um it's close to the house and that and then
52:21
Intro: uh so we'll do some mousing then,
52:25
Intro: And then fish until it's pretty dark, until everybody's done,
52:30
Intro: usually around 10 o'clock in the evening, kind of wrap it up, head back to the house.
52:39
Intro: Get up early in the morning, do some hopper fishing, have lunch back at the
52:46
Intro: house and just kind of chill for most of the day.
52:50
Intro: And then we'll head out again in the evening after dinner and do some more mousing.
52:56
Intro: So we go over like the hoppers in the morning and that and then the mousing
53:02
Intro: in the evening. and then we finish up on Sunday, getting up and doing the hopper dropper game again.
53:10
Intro: So just some trips that we offer here, and they're all kind of fun, kind of different.
53:19
Intro: Again, the Smalley trip, again, we're trying to work with a couple other guides
53:24
Intro: that we know to help out with that.
53:27
Intro: That so it's uh hopefully gonna be that's one that we're kind of adding and
53:31
Intro: hoping that will uh will go over pretty well but the trout schools we've been
53:36
Intro: doing them for quite a while and they always uh it's always kind of fun so pretty.
53:43
Music: Cool and i imagine if i remember correctly all those classes are on your website right.
53:48
Intro: Yeah there's uh if you go to my website uh it's a pj guide or pjguideservice.com, you can look on there,
54:01
Intro: and it's kind of got a rundown of all those classes and it's a way to connect with me too.
54:07
Intro: You can, my phone number's there.
54:12
Intro: You can call or text and then obviously email me. So, yeah.
54:19
Music: And I'll drop a link to that in the show notes. And PJ, is there anything else
54:23
Music: you want to share with our listeners before i'll let you go tonight.
54:26
Intro: Um i don't
54:29
Intro: know i mean fly fishing has just been super fun um i just encourage anybody
54:35
Intro: that is into it just thinking about getting into it got into it over covid um
54:42
Intro: if you're looking for a fun challenging time uh come fish with us here and the Driftless.
54:49
Intro: But stick with it. It's definitely a sport that can...
54:55
Intro: Just kind of change you. It's a great way to kind of just forget all your problems for a little bit.
55:02
Intro: I definitely see that in myself, you know, when I need to get out there and
55:08
Intro: kind of, you know, take a minute and breathe. It's always fun to get out.
55:15
Intro: So, yeah, I mean, and fly fishing is definitely one of those sports that everybody is super helpful.
55:22
Intro: Helpful um we may not
55:25
Intro: always give you all our hot spots and that but we will
55:29
Intro: definitely uh try to help you with your casting
55:32
Intro: and everything so i mean that's that's the beauty of fly fishing it's just it's
55:37
Intro: been an awesome journey and we just feel so privileged to be able to help and
55:43
Intro: offer this and then also with my wife and i living here in the driftless is
55:47
Intro: just it's kind of a dream come true.
55:51
Intro: And we certainly didn't expect to be here when we first started dating.
56:00
Intro: It was not one of those things. But once we got married, boy,
56:05
Intro: we were into fly fishing then.
56:06
Intro: So yeah, I just hope everybody can have a chance to come here to the Driftless.
56:13
Music: Very, very neat. And I think I've got your website and I'll drop your phone
56:17
Music: number in the show notes you want to let folks know i would imagine you're probably
56:20
Music: an instagram guy you want to share your instagram handle before i let you go.
56:23
Intro: Tonight yeah so instagram is pj guides um,
56:30
Intro: on instagram there's there's yeah i think my logo is on there uh and that so
56:39
Intro: it's uh kind of a brook trout coming out of a uh a small stream in a pasture and that so,
56:48
Intro: So look us up. I try to post when I can.
56:52
Intro: So it's not all grip and grins on there either.
56:56
Intro: It's just, you know, some scenery and there's some cool pictures of trout now and again.
57:03
Intro: And some small mouth pictures and then kind of just life here in the driftless.
57:11
Intro: Yeah.
57:12
Music: Yeah. Well, very cool. Well, listen, PJ, I really appreciate you spending some
57:15
Music: time with me this evening.
57:17
Intro: Well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
57:22
Intro: And yeah, I'm looking forward to talking some more with you at some point in time.
57:27
Intro: And, you know, if you need fishing reports, just let me know.
57:31
Music: Yeah, absolutely. And maybe our paths will cross on the water sometime soon.
57:36
Intro: Absolutely. Sounds great.
57:38
Music: Take care.
57:39
Intro: All righty.
57:41
PJ: Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.
57:45
PJ: Don't forget to check out the show notes for more details on the Chocolate Factory
57:48
PJ: coming to Charlotte on May 4th. Tight lines, everybody.