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Transcript
- Romie Montpeirous: Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Leadership from the Heart. Today I have with us Russell Harvey, known as the Resilient Coach. With more than two decades in leadership development and over 6,000 hours of coaching executives and board-level leaders, Russell has helped organizations navigate uncertainty, build resilient cultures, and lead through change with clarity. His mission today is simple but powerful. It's to help organizations become a force for good. By developing leaders who don't just survive disruption, but they grow because of it. Russell, welcome to the show. How are you? Russell: Brilliant, thank you. I loved that introduction. It's good. It's making Romie Montpeirous: Thanks, thanks. Russell: me smile. You forget about the things that you've done. And whilst it's sort of front and center in my head why I'm here, that was beautifully articulated when we thank you. So yeah, I'm all good. I'm all good. Romie Montpeirous: Thank you, dude. Thank you. Thank you for what you do. I love the idea that you are doing it for a force of good because leadership is it can be used for a various number of reasons, you know. And I wanted to start the show off with redefining what resilience is. You know, everybody talks about resilience, but I think most people may or may not misunderstand it. So how do you define resilience and what do most leaders get wrong about it? Russell: Thank you. Yes. So I really, really want people to take away resilience being about springing forward with learning. So that's just really wanted. I am not a fan of the term bounce back. Essentially, I appreciate it's Romie Montpeirous: Okay. Russell: there. But what concerns me about that sort of attachment to resilience is that what I observe, so to answer a of your second question, what was it leaders get wrong? Humans get wrong. in relation to resilience is that they might face into a challenge and I'll go right I've faced into it I'll now go back bounce back to how I was and And so I go well just whoa hang on a minute stop there pause What did you learn and in that learning? That for me is you know some assumed values around just bringing forward learning, you know, you're getting into a better place, you know, you're thriving. But this is also around actually there is an element of community in this striking Romie Montpeirous: Right. Yes. Russell: a better balance between self and community, essentially, Romie Montpeirous: Yes. Russell: that that's assumed in there. So just from an ethical moral point of view, the resiliency piece for me isn't around being I win everything. It's a case of I've got to take some others with me. So championing Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: businesses to be a force for good is like, you know, one leader at a time or on a leadership development program or a big conference. It's like hundreds, know, thousands of leaders Romie Montpeirous: Right. Russell: to really think about how they are impacting the answer to the question for them and their team of how are you? So Romie Montpeirous: Sure. Russell: there's lots of research that shows that one's ability that when you've got a boss, line manager, a leader, your ability to give that a decent answer of like, you know, I'm, all right, you know, or there's a lot going on. I'm pretty good is down to how their leader role models all sorts of things in the resiliency space. So one of the other things that people get wrong around resilience is only thinking about it as it's literally, I've got to keep going regardless. Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: sometimes we are We do need to roll model resilience that we've got to get through a situation, but Romie Montpeirous: Right. Russell: somewhere either during it or immediately after it, you need to pause. our pause can be all sorts of things. Listen to a podcast, great conversation with a friend, literally staring at the wall and just going, I've done, you know, Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: that's a pause, you know? Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Yeah. Russell: So yeah, just bringing forward learning, essentially. Romie Montpeirous: I love that. Even having a podcast and and talking Russell: Yes. Romie Montpeirous: to someone like you, this is a great pause for me. So thank you for that. Thank you for that. Yeah, Russell: Likewise, likewise, thank you. Romie Montpeirous: yeah. What brought you into the space? I'm just very curious. Russell: Into the resiliency space. Yeah. So literally since I was a kid, always interested in human behavior. and you know, why we do things that we do. then most 90 % of my career has been in learning and development, leadership development, organizational Romie Montpeirous: Okay. Russell: development. And so the specific resiliency piece was probably about 14 ish years ago. If anywhere between the timeline keeps getting skewed on me. It's like, you know, Romie Montpeirous: That's okay. Russell: How old am I? Anywhere between 14 to 18 years ago. I was at the last permanent role that I had was a company called the Co-op Group, which I love a great set of values, but it went through huge changes. Just the world fell on everybody's heads at some point. And all of my clients, which were this part of the pool of internal leaders, literally came to their head in the hands and said, what's going on? I said, well, we're looking at this word resilience. And I've been looking at this framework called VUCA, which has, you know, been around for a while, but I think it's still got validity to it. And I just went all our solutions for how you will work through all of these challenges are in there. So when I knew that it was a likelihood that I would leave the co-op because of just the volume of change and restructures, that's when the resilience coach was born, essentially. So my specialism for a long period of time has been how to lead yourself and others well in a full on crazy world. Romie Montpeirous: Yes, yes, yes. A crazy world it's been. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Russell: And it continues to be, yeah. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Yeah. Every time it feels a little smooth, it it just comes right back up. And that's, you know, that's just where we are right now. And it's still the best time to be alive, you know. So I I appreciate you helping people see that it's not just a bounce back. It is also a what did you learn from this? So maybe we don't have to keep learning it, you know. Russell: No, well, that is the thing that fascinates me and sometimes I can be inside my own head and get myself into a pickle of like, you know, not sure we're learning. seem to miss them. Can we say mistakes? Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: How well done that for? And then I will speak to like yourself and go, right. It's okay. It's okay. It's fine. You know, I'm really curious. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah, absolutely. Russell: I loved your sentence and I know it's the best time to be alive. If I may. How come you say that? I agree with you, but how come you say that? Romie Montpeirous: I mean, just when we look at history and we identify just you know, I think every piece of history has gone through very similar struggles, right? And I think it's all relative. But I think when I think about our freedoms right now and just what we are able to do. And someone like you, someone like me, who both have companies, right, who get to dive into their passion of leadership and create a career and a living from that. I don't know if everyone had that 60 years ago or if we would be on the line, you know, pressing a machine and and helping Henry Ford create cars. You know what I mean? If I'm being totally honest, I think there's a Russell: Yeah, totally. Romie Montpeirous: lot of freedom here. Yeah. Yeah. Russell: yeah, there really is. Yeah. No, it's a really good Romie Montpeirous: As bad as it is. Yeah. Yeah. Russell: point. There are, you know, there's so many people that are forging their own path, essentially, Romie Montpeirous: Yes, yes. Russell: which is great because one of the dimensions of being resilient is having a purpose. So Romie Montpeirous: Mm. Russell: I think we've enabled over the recent decades for more people to have that opportunity to discover that for themselves Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: rather than it have been essentially We're not even going to get you to think about whether you've got a purpose or not. You just need to do this. Romie Montpeirous: Right, right, right. Yeah, your purpose can wait. Russell: And in this, don't I say this is, this is why I'm, I know it will come up with the advent of artificial intelligence. I just Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: think it is a huge opportunity to revisit the question. What makes us human? Cause it's the same question of what makes us resilient in my opinion. It's the same question. So I just, and so, yeah, we've watched a couple of documentaries recently in the UK, all about this and, some of them. continue to spar of despair, but then others can give you some hope and optimism, essentially. So I just think it is, you know, lots of people with freedom and purpose, it's my, you the existential question is, how do we support more of the human race to make some good decisions about what they choose to do? You Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: know, in today's world, I think, we've really got to try and find a way to support people to be that place rather than being dragged into what appears to be we're being pushed towards by some individuals who have ownership of all of this AI essentially. Romie Montpeirous: Right. Yeah, and as the world continues to evolve in that direction, I think something also something else is also evolving in terms of reconnecting. You know, you have a lot more communities, you have a lot more restaurants who have you know, the thing in the middle of the table to drop your phone and just be present. I just saw yesterday that Sony is working with Spotify to come up with a Walkman. So you don't necessarily have to have your phone on you all the time, but you can just have music like we used to, just with a Walkman and and stream your music still. because God forbid, you know, but I'm like, wow, we really are, as we're continuing to disconnect, we are also finding ways to connect again. And I think it's such a beautiful thing, in the midst of everything else, you know, very cool. Russell: Just so I think that is great. And just on that though, how come we need any form of technology involved in supporting us to connect as humans? It's like, so it's yeah, great idea, but how come we've gone down that route of like, we feel as though in some instances, technology hasn't supported us. And our solution is to continue to try and use tech in another way. And I'll just occasionally go, well, why don't you just not use the tech and go and knock on somebody's door and go say hello. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Yeah. No, great point. Great point. I think it's gonna be an evolution. You know, I think taking tech away right now would be very frightening for people. Russell: Yeah, I don't mean that it's just we ironically are quite often see things to go there's a problem and which which may have been instigated by too much technology and Romie Montpeirous: Sure. Russell: I and I quite often see the solution seems to be well, let's continue to use tech to resolve it and I'm just Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: going excuse me. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: what if we didn't do that and we tried something else instead? Romie Montpeirous: That's a great point. That's a great point. Thank you for saying that. Yeah, that's good. That's good. So after you left the core group, you started your own company. And then you Russell: Yes, yes, yeah, the resilience coach is 11 years old this month. Romie Montpeirous: hey, congratulations. Russell: Thank you. Romie Montpeirous: And so is that when you started helping companies merge and do acquisitions and stuff like that? Russell: So that it was not necessarily so much in the merge and acquisitions. It was just hundreds of different ways to respond to the inquiries around something isn't quite right around here. Where, know, there is too much change or overwhelm or, you know, with the volume of change, it often meant that some departments, some teams, some organizations were gonna come together. Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: And so how do we navigate all of that? So the huge amount of it is change management or change leadership or behavioral change. And I have always had the belief, as I said earlier on in our conversation, that this is about the individual leadership relationships. You've got somebody that signs off somebody's holidays. Ergo, they're your boss, they're your line manager, they're your leader, or whatever terminology you want to use. And when you ask a human being, how are you, a huge capacity and capability to give a decent answer to that question is down to this relationship. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: so immediately when you are a leader, there are all sorts of assumed things on your shoulders. So to try and simplify that for anybody that's a leader, to start with, I say to them, look, you're only responsible for three things as a leader. which one of them is a few bits in the first one. But in the first one, what you're responsible for is delegating brilliantly to your people, to their strengths and removing the blockages to them performing. You're responsible for that. Okay. Romie Montpeirous: Yes. Yes. Russell: The second thing that you're responsible for is to build, grow, nurture and develop a resilient team. Romie Montpeirous: Yes. Russell: And then Maybe this should be first, but I'm keeping it third. The third one is to be able to do the first two, you have to make the choice and the decision, responsible choice and decision to engage with your personal resilience and be a resilient leader role model. That's three things when you're all day every day. And then so I don't want to work with, you know, teams and leaders and clients. I'll say, so those three things now look at your diary. How many of the things in your diary are in those three buckets? And most of the time people go, not a lot, Russell. Romie Montpeirous: Right. Russell: And go, okay, there's an opportunity to now simplify, adapt, shift, change. And as long as you see the value and the benefit in it, because Romie Montpeirous: Right. Russell: the value and benefit will be when I ask them, how are you as a leader? instead of them saying something like golly, god, there's a lot going on and I don't know what to do or I'd be all right if it wasn't for they say there's a lot going on Russell the world is absolutely crazy and I'm good Romie Montpeirous: Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Russell: That's the difference, essentially. And in, and in, and I'm good, there's huge amount of things because it's, what is it that's enabled you to give that answer? And what's enabled them is that they have worked on their own resilience, understood what it means to be a resilient leader. And they have a lot more clarity on point, purpose, decision-making, what they're to do, how they're going to go about it, what they're going to say, where they're going to turn up, how they're going to turn up. Romie Montpeirous: Hmm. Is that the core of what you see as the opportunity regardless of industry? Russell: Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter what the industry is. It really doesn't, essentially, because it's about the human relationship. So, you know, I'll Romie Montpeirous: Hmm. Right. Russell: also go to different places, just try and start the conversation and go, right then, resilient humans equals a resilient organization. Discuss. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Absolutely. Russell: sees where it goes. Romie Montpeirous: So Russell: Your brain is far enough all sorts of things there isn't it, Romy? Romie Montpeirous: It's it's firing on all cylinders right now. I'm loving it. I'm loving it. You know, I often say that pressure like changes us. I say a lot on my show and and in my content that, you know, pressure often amplifies who we are as a leader, who we are already inside. and leadership does the same thing. Money does the same thing. What has pressure taught you about the human behavior? Russell: What so what's really taught me is that there will be some behaviors that I'll default to. So, you know, it's on perpetual levels of self awareness and self understanding. That's what it's taught me and the difference between knowing and doing that that Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: has really taught me a huge lot around that. I'm like, I know I'm supposed to be doing the behaviors of, but I'm not. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: And, um, know that I'm not going to yet either, but I know that I will at some point, but I'm just not ready yet. So Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: all, all of this pressure. you know, I've been made redundant six times in my career, essentially. So things to learn from that and challenges come in all sorts of different ways. Um, know, running a business for 11 years and you know, it's still challenging at times. pandemic and all sorts of things. And yes, you know, we've mentioned it before the two letters of AI, they're just, still a journey of discovery about how it's going to impact. And at times I put the pressure on myself inappropriately. Um, and it's about the sort of noticing. So I'm quite lucky in that I have spent all of this time cogitating on the word resilience. So I have Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: all of the tips, tools and techniques to hand. It's now about whether I choose to do them or not. And then Romie Montpeirous: Sure. Sure. Russell: occasionally when somebody asks me, so how resilient are you? I just want to go, naff off, go away. It's like a stupid word. I'm just like, you Romie Montpeirous: I'm here for you. Russell: who invented this, you know, silly word? Romie Montpeirous: Ha ha ha. Russell: You know, there are times that that is my response. Romie Montpeirous: Sure, sure. So do you think that a person could become a better leader without first becoming extremely self-aware? Russell: Not really, Rummy. Not really. Self-awareness is the key. You know, Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Agreed. Russell: and it's really interesting when over the years I've heard somebody go, yeah, I think I'm really, you know, I'm pretty self-aware. Straight away, I'm like, just tell me a bit more about that. And Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: I would say probably about 5 % of the time. somebody is, you know, they give an answer and I go, okay. And it's not about the arrogance of me of I know what their self awareness is or isn't. It's just, you know, yeah, 95 % of the time when I go, I'll just tell you a bit more about that. I'm going, hmm, not sure you are. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah, and what prevents somebody from becoming self aware aside what my belief is protection, self protection. Russell: Yeah, so I think curiosity is one of the things that is the bedrock of resilience. So, you know, that gets in the way we talk an awful lot about our desire to be open minded. But I don't think we are kind enough to ourselves to understand just how challenging that is. You know, our brains are hardwired for confirmation bias. So all of the time on I'm trying not to do that with the knowledge that all day, every day I am, you know, confirming my view of the world. So then the counteraction that is, is perpetually putting yourself in places where you have to feel stretched. We have to go places, speak to people, do things, have conversations Romie Montpeirous: Right. Russell: where with different points of view to you. And you've really just got to let it wash over you. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: You know, even if something feels, know, uncomfortable and all of that gets in the way of, of the self-awareness because it can feel tough. It can feel overwhelming. So how you then do it to go full circle is you make the decision and the choice responsibility. Number three, to engage with building and growing and nurturing your own personal resilience because the resilient person is more open-minded and more curious and more confident. in themselves with greater levels of self-awareness. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. And I want to encourage the listeners that like it does take an awful lot of courage to become self-aware because you're going to learn some things about yourself that will shock you, you know, and and it's okay. It's just you. It's just you with you, you know. It's okay. Yeah. Russell: It is, really is. Yeah, there's only you at the end of the day. Yeah. But Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: you haven't got to do it by yourself though. You really haven't. You know, it's Romie Montpeirous: Don't. Yes. Yes. Russell: like one of the other dimensions of the resiliency piece is your support network. you know, Romie Montpeirous: Yes. Yes. Russell: some of us have got the natural propensity just to want to have a smaller one and some of us want to have the larger ones, which is fine, but just, you know, do... find ways to involve others in nurturing your self-awareness. Romie Montpeirous: One thousand percent. You know, I encounter that so much where people are just afraid to ask for support and and it's so disabling. Because people do want to show up for you, you know, people do want to be there and help support. And likewise, you know, it's the it's the cost of community. And, you know, there are coaches, there are mentors, there are friends, there's family, you know, and yet we all think that we're isolated. And yet, you know, this is just happening to me. And you know, the two of us can reassure you that whatever you're going through has likely happened to someone else, if not millions of others. Russell: And yeah, is. alongside that, one of the things, try and talk about the support network places that when you do ask for help, you find a way to get to the place where you, you are clear of what you want from that support. Romie Montpeirous: Yes. Yes. Russell: because human beings are gorgeous, wonderful. They want to help. But a lot of the time when I've gone to others and go, can I just work something through with you? You know, or I could do with the chat. from a very nice place, they don't give me what I need. And so understanding or just doing it more often to work out actually what it, when, when I asked for help or support, what is it that I'm wanting these other individuals to do? Romie Montpeirous: Exactly. Russell: for me. That takes a little bit of working through as well, essentially. Romie Montpeirous: Yes. Yeah. Takes a little bit of processing to say this is something I want you to fix or I just want you to listen and allow me to dump, you know, it's important. I think that's such a good point that I don't think I've ever heard anybody point out before. That's really good, Ross. Yeah. Russell: Yeah. So anybody that's listening now, and the next time that somebody may come to you and go, have you got a minute or can I have a coffee or can I have a chat? If you can, once they've started, just ask the question and yeah, you know, what do need from me? Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. So good. So simple. What is Russell: and for goodness sake do what they tell you you know please do what they tell you Romie Montpeirous: What they ask, please. Yes. Yes. Yes. Not what you want. Do what they want. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. in your opinion now, what is the difference between emotional resilience and mental resilience? Is there a difference? Russell: Well, yeah, you can split it with thoughts and feelings really simplistically, you know, if there's any scientists listening now, there'll be more to it. But you know, that would be my simple answer. So that the mental side is going to be a little bit more in our thoughts and our self talk. And so one of the aspects of the dementia, the resilience wheel, there is there's a meaning word, which is the meaning that we attach to events. That's our internal storytelling. Once Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Yep. Russell: again, it's back to that question about how are you? How was your day? How's your project going? How was your week? It's noticing how you answer that because that is creating beliefs in your brain and memories, essentially. So the mental resilience is how you talk to yourself. And then the emotional is the feeling side and they're completely interconnected. They're intertwined. And yeah, it is most definitely about the self awareness, the emotional intelligence of recognizing your feelings and thoughts and we'll have preferences around these. Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: And one of the things there's a few clients I'm running, but one in particular, we, with this client, we got to, um, there's one time they swore at me, but then mostly laughed about it. Cause one time I said, look, you can't. think yourself out of a feeling. And, and the first time I said it, there was a something off, essentially. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: And then there were other times as the relationship develops, and they went off and again, I've never thought about thinking feeling, I was about I was about to. So just understand that your feelings are stronger than your thoughts. Romie Montpeirous: For sure. Yeah. They often so thoughts and then feelings and then behavior, right? Yeah. Russell: Yeah. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. One thing I appreciate about the the work that you do is you're you're not necessarily telling people to push harder, right? And there's Russell: No. Romie Montpeirous: a difference between endurance and resilience. And I think also people confuse endurance with resilience. And what would you what would you say to that? Russell: Yeah, so they're interconnected. So yes, you can confuse it. So there are times when you may need to do a temporary level of enduring a situation, Romie Montpeirous: Sure. Russell: because resilience is part of resilience is recovering from adverse events. And an Romie Montpeirous: Yes. Russell: adverse event doesn't always necessarily have to be a negative. So Romie Montpeirous: Right. Russell: for quick example, someone came to me one time and asked that exact question, does an adverse event have to be negative? And I went, no, it doesn't. Please tell me why you're asking. And they said, She said, I'm saying she on purpose because her answer was well, in the last couple of years, a totally not life planned, had a baby, essentially, wonderful, lovely that they're here. It was an adverse event. And I went, yeah, perfect example. Yes, Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Right. Russell: you know. He says, yes, I'd absolutely totally unexpected and not in the life plan and it happened. And I'm glad that he did, but by golly, was it an adverse event or it still is essentially. Romie Montpeirous: Sure. Sure. Russell: so there are times we'll need to endure, but it is not just about that. So in this space, you know, you, you've got terminology around mental toughness. You've got grit, is Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Russell: Angela Duckworth. and the perseverance piece and then you've also got hardiness and you've got resilience. these are you know, there are academics proponents in these spaces and I'm going yeah, they're all about the human condition. I'm wanting to take people into the resiliency definition of the spring and forwardward learning so that as much as humanly possible you give yourself the best chance you spend more of your life in the thriving space and the definition of that is when you're asked how are you you can go look going on and i'm good Romie Montpeirous: Right, right. 'Cause there's a separation between the two. Amazing. Russell: Yeah, So surviving is hanging on by your fingernails. Romie Montpeirous: Right. Russell: Coping is a bit of a broad spectrum of I'm okay. Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: Now it might be I'm okay. And I think I might be able to might be going into surviving not okay. But I might sometimes mean, you know, I'm okay. I do know I think I could probably get myself into I'm good, actually. Romie Montpeirous: Right. And how long does one stay in the you know, because we do have to feel the feelings, right? And so how long does one what is your recommendation or what is your experience and how long does one get to stay in what I call our our pity party, you know? Russell: yeah. So this, well, I don't think I can put a 10 seconds Rummy. Yeah, I can't put a time thing. It's Romie Montpeirous: Count down. Count down. Russell: like, what we need to enable yourself to do with the pause and the spring Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: for learning is that self awareness of When have I gone into wallowing? Essentially. Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Russell: Now, so that enables me to sort of say, and in your pauses, what the resilient human, resilient leader role models is in their pauses. They ask themselves three questions. So that's like, these are slightly different. The three things you're responsible for. But the three questions are in your pauses, either conversation with a friend or self-reflection is what behaviors have I been doing recently that have been serving me well? against the resilience wheel. So the second question is, so what behaviors have I been doing recently that have not been serving me well Romie Montpeirous: Sure. Russell: against resilience wheel? And the third question is, how can I do more of the behaviors that are the answer to the first question? Until when you raise your self-awareness, you will then move, spend the relevant time in your pity party. You know, it's because when you're not, if you're not ready to move on, then you're not ready to move on, you know? but then you'll have a greater level of self-awareness of like, do you know what? I've spent too much time here. It's It's Romie Montpeirous: That's exactly it. Yeah. Russell: time to go and I'm, and I'm going to do it essentially. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Yeah. I always tell people to choose to be in the pity party. Because once you make it a choice, Russell: Mm. Romie Montpeirous: you often you often don't want to be there that long knowing that, you know, it's not happening to me. I'm choosing this feeling and that's okay. I wanna be here. I'm not ready yet to move on and be resilient just yet. But once you make it a choice, I think for me at least it it works, where I can snap out of it much faster from a place of like from a place of love, self love, and instead of like, Whoa it's me. Russell: Oh absolutely yes. So I was just thought as well, is it a party, Romy? Because for me a party... Romie Montpeirous: Is it a p it's a party of one? It's a party of one. Russell: But is it a party? Because for me a party is enjoyable. So, you know, is it a Romie Montpeirous: you're right. Yeah. that's good. Russell: pity pit? Romie Montpeirous: Yeah, it could huh. Let's redefine it. Russell: That's just what suddenly, I've said it loads and it just suddenly popped into my head I go, a party is something nice Russell. So yeah, you might enjoy bit of wallowing. Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Right. That's good. No, let's reframe it. Sure. Sure. For a little bit. Russell: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's a party, Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: party light. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah, hard lies. coming back full circle, you know, we started off your intro with saying that you help organizations come from a place of for good, right? Russell: Yes. Romie Montpeirous: And and although that's very inspiring, what does it actually mean to you when you say it's it's for good? Russell: So I'm a pragmatist to live in the real world. absolutely understand that, know, corporations, businesses, organizations, it is about, you know, serving some form of master financial master, it's stakeholders, it's the board, it's shareholders. Romie Montpeirous: Sure. Sure. Russell: It's, you know, there needs to be profit for everybody to have a role. So the force for good is that and the resilient organizational culture is that actually With this acknowledgement of what this business is about, the relationships that we are having, you know, we want to support the people that come to work and be at their best, have a go, you know, Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Russell: create the right environment, you know, and it's and yes, it's not about people being able to do whatever they want, whenever they want. It's about the strengths based approach to go actually, how well do I understand myself and others? what they are naturally energised by to be at their best and produce and perform and engage. And so it is creating that environment. so as an example, so I'm not trying to do anybody out of a job where a resilient organisational culture doesn't necessarily need a wellbeing strategy. So what I mean by that is that there is the risk sometimes Romie Montpeirous: Mm-hmm. Russell: that the culture of an organization isn't as good as it could be. And one of the solutions is we'll have a wellbeing strategy. We'll do gyms and massage days and things like that. And I absolutely get, for anyone who is listening now that's got the job title of head of wellbeing, I'm not criticized, not out of the go. It's just that there is a risk that wellbeing by some organizations is seen as a... sticking plaster. So Romie Montpeirous: Sure. Russell: the resilient organization, the people in the organization are well. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Yeah. That needed a pause. No, it's true. Russell: you Romie Montpeirous: It's it's it's yeah, they're just well. Russell: their well. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. You know, it's often it's well intended. It's well intended. You know. It's Russell: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's well intended. Yeah. Romie Montpeirous: just not full it's just not the full picture or it doesn't encompass all of wellness or it's not good, you know. So I don't want to say it's not good, but it's d it doesn't get to good. Russell: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Romie Montpeirous: Doesn't get to go. Very cool. it is absolutely a conversation we need to have more of. I couldn't agree more. I think we need to, you know, we need to start saying a lot of different things out loud and allow the organizations and the people who are well intended to have the feelings about it as well, you know, but we have to start saying things out loud that that we know are true. and it's an evolution, you know, it's not the same that it was as our parents growing up or working and stuff like that and all of that is okay. Organizations are making more money now than they've ever made before. So it's obviously okay. You know? Yeah. Russell: It really is. It really is. Romie Montpeirous: Yeah. If you had any final words for the audience, what would it be? Russell: Final words, final words, learning. Just consider how you learn or what enables you to learn. And then think about, what makes you hopeful. Romie Montpeirous: thinking about it for me. That's good. Russell: You Romie Montpeirous: I love learning. I'm super curious. But like what makes me hopeful? I I mean I I I have an idea. It's leadership obviously, right? Like done the right way. And right is even relative. But thank you. where can the audience find you? Russell: So yeah, theresiliencecoach.co.uk, that's where can find us and Russell the Resilience Coach, put that in, you'll find me in all sorts of different places, know, websites, LinkedIn, whatever, that's where you find us essentially. I've been doing a huge amount of writing blogging recently, so there's about 25, 30 blogs that are just in train. I'm just doing one a day at the minute. It's just helping me. Romie Montpeirous: Sure. Russell: with my reflections and thoughts and where am I and what do want to say, what do want to do. Yeah, absolutely. Romie Montpeirous: I love that. I love that. Cool. Well, thank you, Russell, for being on the show. thank Russell: Thank you. Romie Montpeirous: you everybody for listening. And that concludes our episode of Leadership from the Heart. Don't forget to like and subscribe. And of course, please check out Russell. We'll have all his links in the show notes. So scroll down, check him out. He's obviously well intended, knows what he's talking about, and I think he can help the world through resilience properly. more than what we know today. So thank you for that Russell. Thank you for what you're doing in this world. Appreciate you. Russell: Likewise, Romy, thank you. Romie Montpeirous: Thank you.