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Red Drop’s Bet on Pain-Free Blood Collection and the Next Wave of Diagnostics · Diagnosing Dx

• David Filby: Thomas, welcome to the show this week. How are you? Thomas Briggs: Doing excellent. Enjoying the summer here in the US, so it's starting to get very warm. David Filby: just in time for the World Cup. Probably too warm to be playing football, but especially down in like Florida, but they're gonna do it anyway, so. Thomas Briggs: Yeah. Yeah, they're gonna I think the water breaks are gonna be mandatory in the in those games. David Filby: I think I had to, yeah. And where in the US are you? Thomas Briggs: About an hour north of Philadelphia, so David Filby: Okay, yeah, so nice time of year to be kind of the North East, right? Thomas Briggs: Yeah, it's finally feeling like summer up here. David Filby: Yeah, yeah, love it. Well, we've got a really interesting episode to record with you this week, which I'm super interested to get into. But before we do that, we always like to give the guests the opportunity to give an intro to themselves and their background and career. So if you want to sort of bring us up to speed and then then we'll get into Red Drop. Thomas Briggs: My name's Thomas Briggs. I'm currently the Chief Growth Officer at Red Drop Diagnostics. And I've been in the role since January, so about six months. I'm a trained molecular biologist, I have my master's in molecular biology, and then also I have my MBA in marketing and management. So kind of the the yin and yang approach, having a a business background and a science background. And so I spent about the first twelve to fifteen years of my career in pharma and big diagnostic companies. for Abbott, Merck, Johnson and Johnson and Becton Dickinson. And over the last, I'd say, three years I've been into the startup realm. So it it's been kind of a r a complete flip from from what I was used to, but getting into the more the startup realm and kind of building businesses and kind of taking technologies to new heights and opening markets. So I think that that for me is much more exciting than kind of the corporate world versus you know kind of having the ability to build something. And I think that's what really gets me going and excites me a lot. So being in the the med diagnostic field now and with all the kind of new innovations, it's it's a very exciting space and I'm I'm loving every minute. David Filby: That's great. And you've almost worked for a who's who of big corporations, but as it Thomas Briggs: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. David Filby: always had a diagnostics leaning through your career. Thomas Briggs: Actually when I started, I started at Merck and I was working in some of the vaccine production. So I've worked on some really interesting products. So so the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine that all the children get, I was on that project and I was d I was in the lab doing RNA and DNA analysis for for patients who took the drug. and then I went to Abbott and I was on the Humera program. So I was on the patent for Humera. It just expired a couple years ago, and that really makes you feel old when you get a letter in the mail from the US government saying your patent's expired, because that means you did it 17 years ago. So that it makes you feel a little bit old, but you kind of see these products that you developed in the in the pharma space kind of become products and you see commercials for them. and then I kind of went more into the diagnostic space at Johnson and Johnson for for cancer detection and cancer staging. And then From there I got my MBA and then started going into more of the business development side and, you know, growing business and business strategy side in but but using that in the space of science and and molecular biology and and blood for the most part. David Filby: Right, so how long were you in scientific roles before you went back and did your MBA and sort of added on the, or went down a commercial path? Thomas Briggs: So I was in in my scientific roles from about for about six years. And then I had a mentor at JNJ. So I gave a project presentation on a cancer staging diagnostic that I was developing. And the VP of sales pulled me aside and he's like, We need to talk. And I'm like, I'm like, Am I in trouble? What did I say wrong? You know? And he pulled me into his office and said, I'm gonna I'm gonna support you and nominate you for the MBA program. He's like, Because when you talk science, I understand it. And I've never taken a science class in my life outside of high school. And we're talking about advanced molecular biology stuff. And he's like, go get your MBA and you're going to be very, very, very satisfied with the results. Because if you can speak science and have a business background, there's so many opportunities for you in in in the med device world. And so I I took that to heart. And that's when I started my program. And I did it, you know, part time at night, because I still had my job working in the lab. And I got my degree. It took me six years to do. But I got it in two thousand eight, my MBA. So so I pretty much had it for eighteen years now. So once I got that I made the transition into more of a a business development role and sales roles. David Filby: Yeah, interesting. So it's quite often a very natural transition, right? Because it's almost a personality thing that organically comes up where people just feel that they've got the scientific background and understanding, but they're being pulled in a different direction Thomas Briggs: Yes. David Filby: and motivated by different things. So it's awesome that somebody's seen that in you and was able to sort of give you that platform. That's great. Thomas Briggs: Yeah, yeah, and and and that's something I've always ch like that those one of those inflection points in life. You know, you know, you always look back like what if I didn't do that? But I'm glad I did. And and now like later in my career when I was at Becton Dickinson, I was a part of the the mentoring program. So I had mentees come to talk to me about this same scenario. And I just love being able to kind of pull that forward. And even after I left Becton Dickinson, my mentees still call me on a weekly basis and we talk just about what they should do and kind of how their careers are progressing. So I always find, you know, giving back that way is very satisfying to be able to help people make those decisions that really help them along in their lives and w with their careers as well. David Filby: And talk to me about your startup experience there. So it's been three years now and a few different firms. How's the startup world been treating you? Thomas Briggs: it's hectic. It's a lot different than the corporate world. I mean, you know, day to day is very different. but I th I wouldn't change it for the world. well I I joined your bio health in October twenty four. and they were struggling and they need a new leadership team to kind of build the product up and, you know, get it ready for sale for acquisition. and then in sixteen months we got the company to an acquisition state and it was bought by Him's and Hers Health. to include in some of their home sampling programs. So that was a really good experience to kind of build it and get it all the way to the point of an acquisition. and working with, you know, the venture capital firms that wanted to get their their investment back out. So kind of seeing it from a different standpoint versus in a corporate world, you're kinda just working on projects and day to day and it just keeps going. This one is far more dynamic and far more I think I think for me, your efforts are immediately visible in a startup world because there isn't eighteen layers of things to going on. It's kind of really visible and and you can you can affect something very quickly, which I like. As a scientist I like to see results. So in big corporate world you do a project for four years to finally see a result. In the startup world it might be four weeks. So I th I like that that kind of that satisfaction of seeing those results with kind of my science background. David Filby: Yeah, what was the product at your bio? Thomas Briggs: It was an arm-based blood collection device. So you would put it on, press the button, and a little little microtube would fill with blood. And then you could use that blood for analysis, like for a CBC or a metabolic panel, lipid panels, those types of things. You could you could look at from small small amounts of blood. So it's really trying to take the blood collection away from like the hospitals and the big patient service centers, like your quests and lab cores, and take it and put it into the home. Or even the doctor's office where the doctor, you know, because we all go to the doctor and say, Okay, now at your yearly checkup here, go get these blood tests for, you know, the general health blood test. Where they could actually have the device, grab that sample and send it in themselves from the office. So you would kind of eliminate that step in in the process. And I don't know about you, but if I would get a blood draw order, usually it goes on the back of my calendar and I forget about it until about a day before my next doctor appointment and I run out and get it. So I don't get yelled David Filby: Yeah. Thomas Briggs: at. so I think that can kind of like streamline healthcare and also I think from the from the healthcare standpoint, get people I think be more proactive about their healthcare and and be able to track things earlier and learn earlier about potential conditions. because I think if you skip the blood test you kind of lose a lot of value for your doctor to to see something early. And I think that's a big part of it as well and help with the compliance part for blood collection. David Filby: Why did it make sense for, in your opinion, as a product fit for him's and hers? Why would that be a smart acquisition? What was their vision for the product? Thomas Briggs: well right now as you know, they're doing a lot of GLP one and a lot of sexual health drugs. and people need to have blood tests to be able to kind of measure. Like if you're on testosterone treatment, you want to know what your baseline is. You know, what is your baseline? So sending a home kit to to take the blood collection, send it and then say your testosterone is this level and we would recommend this treatment at this dosing. So it can really help manage the treatment programs and also show progress. So then like six months later, okay, your testosterone's like you know, two points higher because of this program. Or with the GLP ones, I you know, we're seeing even in some of the the T V advertisements talking about blood tests and with GLP ones, people are losing weight, so you want to see your HBA one C levels drop. You you would want to see maybe your lipid levels drop because you're you're losing weight. And you also wanna make sure like with some of these drugs there is some indications about thyroid cancer. So having a thyroid panel tagged at that to make sure that you're not negatively affecting your body as well, besides the positive of losing the weight and having the benefits from your H B A one C or your lipid panels. But but make sure you're not negatively affecting it as well. So to kind of track that. So I think those are areas where you can kind of play into these direct to consumer drugs, but then also make sure that they're taking them right and and they're still healthy overall. David Filby: really exciting space at the moment, isn't it? The sort of the gray area between diagnosis, diagnostics and wellness and giving people access to their own data. That probably ties really nicely into the red drop diagnostics in your role there. So give us an intro, who are red drop diagnostics and what's your role? Thomas Briggs: Yeah, so so we're as we're a small medical device manufacturer. We manufacture, the red drop one device. So this is a device where you can see it has a little switch here. You would put it on your upper arm, pull this switch down, and there's see on here, but this might not be the best for a video, but there's two little V-shaped slits there. the little microneedles come out, pierce the skin, and then the blood will flow down into the tube. And you can use this tube for testing. So It's a really really good concept, virtually pain-free. it's like a one on the longbaker pain scale. And that net that pain scale goes from zero to nine. So vanipuncture, I think, is usually around three or four on that scale, so it's less, much less painful than a vanipuncture. And it's much easier to get. So you can see a doctor could do this. It's it's just pull a switch. And even in the future, you know, getting a home-based clearance on this is kind of one of the next steps for the whole industry for these ARM-based devices, because currently They are cleared as lancets, FDA cleared as a lancet, for for HCP use, so for healthcare professional use. But the next step I think in this market is to take that next step and get a home collection clearance so that lay users can use it for diagnostic testing instead of just wellness testing like what we what we're seeing currently. David Filby: How does the product compare then to a your bio that you've just come because obviously similar realms and similar fields. Thomas Briggs: Yeah. David Filby: So what's the comparison and the differentiators? Thomas Briggs: Yeah. So the comparison is I have one of the Eurobio devices too, so we do side by side. so the Eurobio device here has a plunger. It's a little bit you know kind of unwieldy there. and it looks like you would be pushing this whole length into your arm, which wouldn't be good. But also Eurobio has about in there they have a little micro needle array. So in there there's thirty little micro needles that pierce the skin and allow for the blood to flow. Ours has about six six little bit bigger micro needles. that pierces skin and let the blood flow. So it's a lot of kind of the same process about a piercing and not a laceration. And I think that's very important with these devices is that if it's a cut, it's a laceration, it takes longer to heal and there's potential for scarring. Or if it's a puncture, it's a much cleaner wound and they they heal very well and you don't get scarring. So I think that's a really interesting kind of caveat with devices like this is a puncture versus a laceration. and I I think that's so we have a puncture, but then we also have a little bit higher blood f blood volume. So Our device is about 750 microliters on average. The your biodevices are around 500 or so. So there's a higher David Filby: Hmm. Thomas Briggs: volume there because if you go too low in the volume, you don't have enough material to do all the testing you need. And I think that's that's the balance here. You need enough blood to do the testing, but you don't want too little blood because it won't be useful downstream. You might be able to test one analyte or two analytes. So that's kind of what we're playing for. And that's what I hear in the field a lot is we want more blood. But With your capillary beds, you're always going to be restricted, right? It's not like you have a vein where you can pull as much blood as as you want. It's a capillary bed, it's a small location. There's only a certain amount of blood that can come out of that that that footprint. So that's David Filby: Mm. Thomas Briggs: what we're dealing with right now. It's trying to maximize the blood collection, but also knowing that you have a small footprint. So there's going to be a limit to what you can get out. David Filby: And where do you see the commercial direction then for Red Drop versus like your bio that have ultimately been acquired and now hims and hers are using it for self use to ultimately feed their wider purpose and organization. Where does Red Drop, where does the commercial strategy come into and where are you seeing the most uptake or where do you see the future potential for where this product is going to be utilized the most? Thomas Briggs: Yeah, I I think there's a there's a few avenues here. I think the direct to consumer market's obvious, like for your sex hormone testing, testosterone replacement, estrogen replacement, your GLP ones, that kind of market's already kind of there. and I think getting into those markets for home for home collections are are are kind of the immediate market. But then also I think something I've always had since my days at Bacton Dickinson is the pediatric collection market. I think, you know, I was asked for ten years, do you have something, a smaller tube for pediatrics that's not a finger stick? Right. And and not a vena puncture. I me too. David Filby: I hate the finger sticks by the way. I hate the finger sticks. Thomas Briggs: I and and then then you get a finger stick and then you try to type and you feel it for the next seven days and it's just like bang and we're David Filby: Yeah Thomas Briggs: all typing every day, so it just you're like, you know. David Filby: Yeah. Thomas Briggs: I got that question. What do you have that can get me blood from a pediatric patient that's not a venipuncture because peas are really hard to get a needle in because those David Filby: Hmm. Thomas Briggs: veins are very small, and not a finger stick. So that was always the kind of thing I've heard for ten years and and when I started with Eurobiom like this is the solution in pediatrics. You know, this this is the fit. This fits with what they want. And so I think that's one market that we could put this in, you know, state primary care pediatrician's office. Grab a sample, do a lead test, because a lot of states require lead testing in the first year of life. That's a perfect application. Grab a sample, send it in, you got your lead test done, the the parent doesn't have to take more time off and go to a secondary blood draw site. or have a vena puncture or a finger stick on the child, it could be a very easy experience where they could do it right in the doctor's office, it's done. And it's a very comfortable environment for the child as well. and a very no pain environment too. So it's very I think the anxiety level for the parent drops significantly in there. So I think that's a really interesting market for a device like this. I don't think this device is a device you're gonna put everywhere because the blood volume is small. So you know we're not gonna try to replace all vena punctures everywhere because sometimes you do need seven vials of blood to do a panel of testing. But for but David Filby: Hmm. Thomas Briggs: there's other cases where you're only looking for a few markers. So this might be the perfect application for that. And one market that we were develop we're developing is over in Europe, in the NHS, in in England. They found great use for micro sampling, arm-based micro sampling for their autistic and neurodivergent patients. Because David Filby: Okay. Thomas Briggs: a lot of times it's very difficult to get a blood draw vanipuncture, you have to hold the child down, have three people, and and just the experience is awful. David Filby: Yeah, Thomas Briggs: so this could be where the parent could even put the device on with the doctor to collect the sample and it's a much more calm experience and it's pain-free. So it's a really good kind of application for a device like this. And and they sound some has some great results. Dr. Karen Perkins over there with the NIGH has done a lot of presentations on it and it's just a really good application and a great fit for for a patient base. So That's another one. And then also, in the the major hospitals, I I see there's a market here as well for patients with difficult vein access. about you know thirty to forty percent of people have difficult veins and that means you're trying to go multiple times and try to get a vein apuncture, which costs a lot of money. Whereas you could put a device on this and your vein access doesn't matter because your capillary beds are at the surface of your skin. You know, it's David Filby: Hmm. Thomas Briggs: it's easy access because they're there. use heat the skin and and they're there to be able to do that collection. So I think that could really play into the difficult vein access as well and decrease costs in the hospital for di difficult vein access, working in the US medical systems, decreasing costs on things is a very big priority. So if you can kind of show something will in certain situations, that that's where you can find adoption of products like this. David Filby: Yeah, interesting. Is the industry and the market well developed or is there still an element of education and awareness for this type of device and product where you're going into new markets? You can use pediatricians as the obvious example. Thomas Briggs: Mm-hmm. Yeah. David Filby: When you're going into them, is there still an element of, we haven't even thought about this yet, but this is a great idea, or is it now... because there is other companies, obviously you're a buyer, you've worked for one before, how developed is the industry itself for sort of pain-free, easy, you know, blood draw? Thomas Briggs: I think in in like the direct to consumer space, I think it's it's much more developed. I think it's being used much more frequently, but in the hospital pediatrician managed healthcare space, they see a device like this and their their eyes just open wide up. They're like, I didn't know this existed. You know, that's their re response and they're like, I don't believe it. Number two, and we're like, Okay, give me your arm. We're gonna we're gonna test you right now. And then they're like, You did it and then there's blood in the tube, like, my god, this is the greatest thing. So I think right now we're at the point in the market of education. we're trying to educate as many people as possible about the ability of these. And then also in that space, doctors like, I need to I need to take three vials of five mils each to send the quest in lab core. And I think that's a piece where you're taking three vials and you're testing for lead. You need less than a hundred microliters of serum or plasma to do that, but you're taking fifteen mils of blood total. So I think there's there's a mentality of what you actually need and then also on the backside of that is the labs. The labs accepting smaller amounts and validating those smaller amounts with the platforms they have. and that that comes to a n the next step of working with some of the platforms. I'm working on a project called Project Comfort over in the EU, which is a micro sampling initiative run by I think it was like fifteen pharma companies, Med device companies and also the instrument manufacturers had to say, how can we use micro sampling to benefit clinical trials? And can we get David Filby: Hmm. Thomas Briggs: the same data from a home collection as a you know on-site collection for these clinical trials? Can we can we decentralize this? and so that's a project that we're you know, working with like the Roches, the Abbots, the Siemens of the World, and they're all working on their instruments to use less and less sample per test. I know on the Roche the Roche system for a a comprehensive metabolic panel, you need fifty-seven and a half microliters of plasma or serum, which is a tiny amount. Fifty-seven David Filby: Mmm, yeah. Thomas Briggs: microliters really is a drop that volume wise is a drop of blood. You know. So I mean that's how small they can get down to. And they're really kind of being more efficient with their platforms as well. So I think that's I think it's a tie and we can have efficiency on the blood collection side, but you also need that back end to have the lab efficiency to make everything work. And so I think that's where we're growing together to create that market. David Filby: Yeah, interesting. And so where are the company as we speak in terms of what's the sort of story up until now in terms of starting development, commercialization and the milestones you've already achieved? Thomas Briggs: Yeah, it it's been entirely self funded and it it's very very small and and been kind of bootstrapped together by an engineer and and they found this kind of technology and developed it. we haven't gotten a lot of venture capital or anything like that. It's kind of been just really bootstrapped together and and been very cautious. You know, you know, we've seen some, startups go out and raise a lot of money and waste a lot of money on it on things like marketing and all these types of things and to not get a result. Whereas I think the money has been Judiciously spent here to develop a really good product first. And then, okay, now that we have the product that's very durable and it's very easy to use, now we can start amplifying it and and and creating more inventory and starting to take it out in the market once we know it's a high quality product. So that's where we're at right now. in that kind of that gross stage we're increasing the visibility and increasing our our manufacturing capabilities to really try to build into the market appropriately. David Filby: And so the device is available and already being utilized and commercialized. Thomas Briggs: Yes. Yep, yep. So the device is available and we're commercially selling it. you know, we have a variety of customers. I think we we see a lot of a lot of interest in kind of the clinical trial space, which you would expect. we see a lot of interest in the direct-to-consumer space, which you would expect. And we're just starting now building into the managed healthcare systems, the pediatrician's office to build that visibility. so that's where we're kind of working towards right now. But you know, it's it's been good. We've got this device out into customers' hands, they love it. And if now it's just trying to figure out how to best use it and then how to tie it with the instruments that they're using as well. Because especially in the managed care, they've been used to taking high, you know, vanipuncture tubes and sending them down to the core lab and that's it. It's almost kind of working with them to to figure out how to be able to process these. And I think that's one of the bigger hurdles as well, in the space. David Filby: Yeah. And we, I don't, can't remember how many, if at all bootstrapped med device companies we've ever had on the show. mean, it's rare, isn't it? Obviously for obvious reasons, you know, developing products is expensive. Was Thomas Briggs: Mm-hmm. David Filby: there, was there an intent behind that in terms of, you know, purposely trying to avoid VC money for more than just the money Because you hear stories now as well in many industries about how VCs have sort gone a different direction. They're not actually really supporting Thomas Briggs: Yeah. David Filby: early stage seed level rounds anymore. And that's a shame that they've sort of almost moved up the food chain and they're looking at bigger things. But also there's companies that get into bed with VCs and regret it. Was there Thomas Briggs: Right. David Filby: a reason behind sort of avoiding the sort of VC pool? Thomas Briggs: Well, I it was before my my time I've only joined I've only been here six months, but I think having more control and avoiding David Filby: Yeah. Thomas Briggs: kind of the typical VC push, right? we want a a ten X return and we don't care how we get it, versus kind of controlling it and and making the best product possible. And I think that that's kind of where we land it or where they landed, you know, when they were making the decisions. But I but I think I've I've seen it from both sides. at Eurobio we were we were completely funded by flagship pioneering, major VC, right? David Filby: Right, yeah, VT, yep. Thomas Briggs: and so there are there were a lot of demands from working with a major VC for a small startup tr in MedDevice because MedDevice isn't pharma, isn't biotech. it's not a lottery ticket business. I always say that with kind of the biotechs pharmas is you could buy a Or invest in a biotech or pharma for two billion and turn it into a five hundred billion dollar business with one drug. MedDevice is more of you have a device and you can slowly build it. It it there's not that that rocket ship. It's kind of more of a gradual build. And I think that's something VCs have a hard time understanding in MedDevice because you're selling into hospitals, you're selling in these places where the decision timeline takes a long time and you have to build it and there's a lot of price concerns in these spaces. So you can't you can't have huge margins either. because you won't be able to sell any products. So it's a much more kind of stable growth model that VCs got I don't think have seen or or are comfortable with with the other things they invest in. They're looking for those quick sh sh sh you know, rocket ship growth, IPO out. And the med device is a lot different space than that. So I think that I think it's good that we're not in that space from a red drop. So it allows us the chance to build a market at our speed, you know, and and not have that pressure of when are you gonna quadruple your growth in the next three months. You know, those types of conversations. So David Filby: Yeah. And so you coming on board as the chief growth officer this year, is that an indication of where Red Drop are in their journey that now it is about expansion and commercial growth, whether that's through education and awareness or through ultimately revenue generation partnerships and so forth? Thomas Briggs: Yeah, I think that that that's definitely a sign is like my background going into the big medical centers and and working with them to to build, you know, the model out is one of the reasons I joined, is because I had the experience in that market working at Becton Dickinson and at Eurobile, working with major medical centers in managed care to build the story of why we should put a device like this in. Because you can't just go in there and say, Okay, this is a great device. They're like, Okay, we're gonna buy You know, you ac actually have to have your your clinical value propositions, why why it would save them money, why it would be better for their patients, and have this all nailed down and make sense to them on a monetary side as well. And I think that's the piece that, you know, I've learned through my experience and that's why, I was brought over to help kind of guide that that segment growth and build that segment while we're growing our business. David Filby: Yeah, makes sense. And so how are you guys set up to succeed from here and how have you built a business that can thrive, not just a product? Thomas Briggs: we're actively looking at ways to increase our manufacturing capacity in a way that would really would drop our cogs and so that we can be very, very competitive in price. And and especially when you start looking at like in the direct to consumer market it's not as competitive because it's a willingness to pay in that market. There there's a willingness to to buy a hundred dollar kit or something like that, versus in the managed care, these hospitals want everything for pennies, right? Because That's the way they do it. So I think that's that's gonna play into our push into managed care is if we can kind of increase our manufacturing capacity, decrease our cogs, which then can decrease our price, but we can still have a sizable margin to be able to, you know, run the business, but we can get into these spaces that are very price sensitive. And I think that's kind of what we're looking at doing and be able to kind of build our capacity so that we can manage that a lot better. David Filby: And that would involve two completely different type of marketing business development strategy, right? In terms of going into healthcare systems versus Thomas Briggs: yes. David Filby: direct consumer. is there two ongoing strategies there that you're building and implementing as we speak? Thomas Briggs: Yes, yes. So there there's multiple like strategies in these in these different situations if I'm talking to a direct to consumer company, they don't care about the clinical value proposition of replacing a phlebotomist. They're like I don't care. They're like, I just want a device that works and how cheaply can I get it and put it in my kit and send it out the door. and and does the analyte I want is it comparable with capillary and vana vanapuncture? And that's all they really care about. versus on the managed healthcare side, it's it's a red the red tape, you have to go through committees, you have to go through purchasing, you know, and and I think that's a much different sell and it's a much longer David Filby: Yeah. Thomas Briggs: sell. I mean, you're looking at a sales window of twelve to sixteen months, you know, from a start of a pilot study all the way through the the hospital buying the product. So it's it's a long wait. But in the end, if you can get one percent of the blood draws out of hospital, that's a pretty big number for a a startup company. Right. I mean that how many billions of blood draws are done a year, if we can get one percent of those, that that's a huge win for a small company. So and and that's what we're looking at because our markets are they're not the biggest markets. when you're looking at maybe autistic children, pediatrics, difficult vein access, but when you kind of lump together, there's a sizable little market there for a company in the startup realm that could really, really make a difference. David Filby: Yeah, that makes sense. what are the future milestones we should keep a look out for in the next 12, 24 months and to see how Red Drop are doing for people that want to follow the story. Thomas Briggs: Yeah, I I think one of the things is working on getting the home collection clearance with the FDA here in the US. I think that's the the kind of the keystone to everything in this market. I think once you get that, I think that opened up a lot of doors and a lot of markets and then people start really believing in the technology. I think for us, we are not cleared in Europe yet. So I think getting a Europe and the CE mark and then going over and getting the IVDR. in the UK. I think those are two other big programs that we need to do to unlock kind of those markets because the UK is really forward in micro sampling and and home collections. It was spurred by COVID, but there's a lot of a lot of companies and even the NHS does a lot of home collections now. So I think that's a really interesting market for home collections and and kind of personalized devices like this. So I think the UK is is a great market and then the EU as well. I think that that'll be the next one. So I think that's where getting those clearances. I think would be the next the the kind of some of these major milestones for us to kind of really expand our market and build the market to the what to the level we need. David Filby: Fantastic. And so your overview and perspective of the diagnostics market as a whole, especially as a company that's partnering with diagnostics companies for their at-home use, and what's your view on the industry and the landscape we're in for 2026? Thomas Briggs: I think there's a lot of excitement, you know. I mean I I'm seeing a lot of, you know, even over the last four or five months, a lot of companies going into and marketing home collections, home based blood tests. A lot of new markers are coming out, like for Alzheimer's and those types of things. And if you know you could do that in a home collection setting, think about that market. I see even like in some of the HIV prep drugs and HIV monitoring drugs, there's a lot of required blood testing that patients have to go into the doctor's office for. What if it could just be a home collection kit? You know, just send it home and boom, they grab that sample and send it back and that's it. So I think there's a lot of these markets that can be really built with these types of technologies and making them more available. So I think that's one of the pieces and then also working with, the testing companies themselves with the instrumentation. I think having the ability to use lower amounts of blood on the big platforms is going to be a key because you you can't have all this volume with blood collection and not have have the ability to process it in an efficient way. Because a lot of times with you have to handle these microtainers a little bit more than you would a vanipuncture tube. So how do we make that more efficient and more streamlined and so some of these companies may have to invest in how to do that for the instruments. And I think that could be a bottleneck as well to be able to kind of streamline that process. So I think that's something that we need to look towards as well to make sure We can collect ten million samples right now, but can they be processed in a timely manner? Or or a timely and and cost effective manner as well. Like, you know, in a lab, anytime somebody touches a tube, that's a lot of money. So if we can kind of figure out those pieces and make a complete system, I think then the market really will take off and and you can see this much more frequently and much more common practice with doctors. And you can see a doctor like For your annual checkup, having a kit and saying, here, here, grab this, put this on your arm, take the sample and send it away. And that just becomes common practice versus having that blood draw order or something like that. David Filby: Yeah, I mean that feels so logical and so necessary, Thomas Briggs: Yeah. David Filby: doesn't it? which I love to be honest. I love when we come across in this industry, just really great products that the world clearly needs. And there's, there's obvious benefits, whether that's just to, like you said, there's a group, there's many groups of patients that would benefit, from this type of product, but there's also systems and workflows that can clearly be improved and relieved of challenges by this type of product. And that's really what we want to see, isn't it, through innovation, is those types of improvements. Thomas Briggs: Because I mean, you think about it, blood collection and blood, you know, analytical testing hasn't really changed in the last thirty years. No, you go and get a vanapuncture, they send it to the core lab, the core lab puts it on their instruments that have all been built for these tubes. And that's the way it's been done. So there hasn't been a lot of innovation on that side of the fence. And I think this is where we can really kind of we're gonna innovate from the front to push the back forward in in a way. So David Filby: Yeah, I've got two young kids, right? Two and four. you know, the thought of putting them through a blood collection for whatever reason would, you know, it's just, it's not very nice. Is it? Nobody's going to want to do that. And this kind of at home device that you could just help your child through quick, painless would just, it'd be, it'd be awesome. Also as a Brit, it's great to hear that the NHS are leading because They're not necessarily known for leading. But Thomas Briggs: Exactly. David Filby: it's good that this is a portion of the industry that they're interested in innovation. That's great. Thomas Briggs: But I but I think probably as you've seen, if you've ever gone to an NHS blood collection center, you know, it takes some time. And so if if you can alleviate the pressure and the volume of people going there, like people are always gonna need to go there for you know, some people might need three or four vials of blood, right? Okay. But if you just need something to test your, lipids, why not have a kit shipped to your home and grab it? it it would just take s a lot of stress off the system as well. And I think post COVID I think that a lot of the systems have become very stressed. David Filby: Yes. Thomas Briggs: I think I think we've lost a lot of flo very talented phlebotomists because of that, because the people have been doing phlebotomy for thirty years, they retired. And those people that can find e a vein with their eyes closed, they're all retired. And and nobody's going into phlebotomy anymore. You know, they're becoming more of generalized medtex or something like that, or x-ray text. Phlebotomy isn't one of the sexy type of jobs to go into, so people aren't going into it. So any way we can kind of not have to have that super skill set and maybe use a nurse, just a standard nurse for it, that could be great as well. David Filby: Yeah, that's true. I think maybe that is the Britain because I always feel that the number one challenge in the UK is is stress on the system, right? It's it's a system that's just sort of bursting, right? And and they Thomas Briggs: Yes. Yep. David Filby: constantly talk about wait times and stuff like this. Thomas Briggs: Uh-huh. David Filby: That is just stress because of, know, a backlog of of everything from the most simple, you know, like this could be a blood draw for a routine, you know, check up, but it could be, you know, very serious conditions and an emergency. cases. But then you talk about the US and the comparison that as someone who's lived in the US for nine years, I always think about rural areas or hard to get to areas as one of the biggest Thomas Briggs: Uh-huh. David Filby: challenges. How does the person living in an obscure location get the same treatment and access to someone who lives in a really well built up city that has plenty of options? They tend to be the two sort of main differences that I immediately think of when I think about the difference in the healthcare systems. And this would be great for both. Thomas Briggs: And and and I think on that on that point is even just kind of looking into like a clinical trial. When the clinical trials are done in the US, they're always done in these kind of major cities in the same populations, David Filby: Yeah. Thomas Briggs: and it's within driving distance. So what are you missing? Like you're using the same patient base over and over again. You're missing David Filby: Right. Thomas Briggs: the diversity of the rest of the country. So if you could even screen patients with this for a trial to be able to get more inclusive or more patients with a certain condition in, you could probably speed up your trial number one because you have a bigger footprint to to get people from and number two make it more reasonable because then they instead of having to go to to the main clinical trial site you know time zero, six months, twelve months, maybe you can do time zero and twelve months, but then in an intermediate, take a blood sample every month. And so you can kind of get more David Filby: Yeah. Thomas Briggs: data and and have a better trial and more data for for the the analysis by doing it that way. So there's a lot of ways you can play this together. to really benefit the health system and, drug development and or just general health in in it indeed. So David Filby: Fantastic. Well, Thomas, thank you so much for coming on and sharing an insight into Red Drop and your past and your take on the industry. I always love when I get to have these conversations and this optimism and innovation and this has all of that. So thank you for coming on and sharing the story. It was awesome. Thomas Briggs: Yeah, perfect. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And I love talking about this stuff. And I think I think we're re at the cusp. you get those feelings in the in when you've been in the industry long enough about when you start seeing everything start to build. And I think we're right at that inflection point now with kind of the micro collections and pushing blood collections out into into the the home and be able to do diagnostics from the home. So I think we're right at that kind of inflection point. So it's it's a it's a very very fun time to be in this space. David Filby: Thomas. Thomas Briggs: Perfect. Thank you. Have great day.