Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 405 - Under The Bridge Downtown...

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 405 - Under The Bridge Downtown... · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Repent of any sage juice, tear up the True down.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: A rare rabble from the junis the mo dipent very
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: rule being mister.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Foot is in the pure awenness.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: It's fine night ship, the lights, the break with.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: All sides, never be friend of the basting you and
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: the boy for all to see.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: And here we go. What's up?
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Everybody?
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Welcome into the show. It is Friday night. It's Big
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Bad Bob and the Joe Beazy here with you again
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: for another exciting episode the lonecom Podcast. What do you say?
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Joe hop along case of what do you hear? What
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: do you say?
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I have no idea what you just said?
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: But okay, it's what do you hear? What do you say?
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like, what's up? I am doing well, sir,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I am doing well. It is Friday and we are
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: on the pod, and I think we have some good
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: stuff for tonight. Oh yes, yeah, I enjoyed Quick Hits
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: a lot. It was a great show.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: And that's a show.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: And yeah, we did a part two on Wednesday, so
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: not a member? What are you doing?
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: You missed out?
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Also, and I also had an empanada before the show.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Rob with some Silk City and by the way, use
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: our code Gunman for twenty percent off like in the description.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: And it was fire literally.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Over the show. Yeah, and I heard something new is
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: going on with the YouTube now, Joe. So they are
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: giving away free trial memberships, so you can check out
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the membership before you actually commit really pay any money. Yeah,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: for any channel that offers memberships, you can sign up
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: for a free trial membership. So if you've been hesitant
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: before and you want to check it out, perfect time
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: to do it. Just saying I don't know what it
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: all entails. It is a YouTube thing. It is not
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: a lone guming podcast thing, so I it's out of
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: my control. But disclaimer disclaimer, Yeah, and one other thing
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: before we get right into the show. Welcome in everybody.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: We see you, we hear you, we love you. But
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: you know how it goes on Friday night. We're gonna
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: jump right into it so real quick. Before we do, though,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Joe and I got sideswiped this week. Disclaimer by a
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: British author named Martin Fitzgerald who we were going to
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: have on the show.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: And so here's what I have to say about that.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: Go.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: You know, if you take the time and you're trying
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: to self promote your shit all over Facebook and the Internet,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: and you agree to come on the show for an
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: interview about said book that just came out in the
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: United States on the biggest show, the biggest stage that
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: you could have ever had on a podcast to get
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: your book out there, and you want to ghost the
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: show at the last minute. We had to scramble a
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: little bit because, well, the last message I sent to
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Martin he never answered. And you know how a messenger
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: works when you can see where somebody's read your message, Joe, Yes, yeah,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: sometimes you read the last message I sent him.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you ignore me. So I'm just kidding, Well, you.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Know might answer eventually.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: He's had over eight days to answer.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: You don't take that one.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: No, And it was to set up everything for this show.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: So that being said, I would encourage all my listeners
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: to ignore his book The Umbrella Man and other stories.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: And that's all it is is stories about everything you've
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: already heard.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: So that being said, Martin, you're fucked up son.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: You should have come on the show. But now we'll
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: just be honest and tell everybody that your book really
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: ain't nothing special. And if you think I'm full of shit.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I have it right over there on my bookshelf. I've
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: started to read it. And by the way, real quick,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: everybody that lives in Britain, yeah, I want you to
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: type in the word curb.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Real quick, just as anyone who lives in Britain.
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, anybody who's British or English or whatever.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Does Ireland Scotland count.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: Fucking throw them in.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: It can't be any worse than this.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Just put the just put in the word curb.
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: Okay, sadly yep, okay, right, okay, yeah, oh.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: That long another Okay.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: So I'm not retarded when I say in his book
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: he spells the word curb k E r B.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Well, it's like it's not a British thing, right.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: No, it kind of You're gonna have to get in
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: the comments here. But it's kind of like when they
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: say rationalize but they don't don't use a Z and
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: they use an S. You know what I mean.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: That's a big difference between Q or c U and
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: k E.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, Paul, you're not we know you're not Burton.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: Right, But.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Sally says it can be curb k E r B.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: How can it be curb when it is c U
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: R B. I don't know anyway, we dichrius. Sorry, Martin,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: you get to us now, enjoy your week sales, all right?
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: To get into tonight's show, boy, that's an awkward, awkward intro.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: But you know, hey, don't don't double cross, you know,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: don't double just saying don't don't last minute this, don't
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: don't big time the big timers.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: Son.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was looking forward to this as well.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: But we will allegedly have a guest on next week,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm gonna say.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Allegedly, not on this show, but a different show. Allegedly.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I didn't tell you about that yet. Oh, get with
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: me after the show. Here we go.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a fiction book, Joe, So I don't want
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: to have a fiction author on the show for two
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: hours talking about the case. So I decided to make
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: a little addendum to our book review show and call
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: it Author's Corner, like to many minutes with the author
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: you know where we just talked to the guy, well
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: ship get a bit, you know, a little bit about
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: his book, and we're out right right like it doesn't
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: warrant a two hours show to talk about a fiction
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: book about the Kennedy assassination.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, because it's none of it.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Is real, right, but with the with that author.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Right right?
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. I had the idea I flowed to Rob a
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: long time ago of having like our researcher friends do
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: like guest book review interviews with us and read the books.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: But we have to make that happen. Maybe we will
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: someday the idea.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: And before we get started, I want everybody to check
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: out Joe's new tattoo that he got over the weekend.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Here we go, Here we go.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: You're gonna love this, folks. Check out Joe' new tattoo?
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Is this AI here?
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: No, it's real? You got it on young? I mean
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: you should know it's not AI bro Okay, it's right there.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Interesting, it's a little area I keep myself pretty well trimmed. Sorry. Interesting,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: that's a tattoo you saw online a Facebook group or
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: something like that.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: That's the picture you sent me?
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: What I did send you that This is my first
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: time viewing.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: We'll let him lie to you, folks. This is Joe's Torso.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Do I need to prove it?
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Hey? You want to stand up and whip that belly
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: out on it right now, you go anyhead.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: Other sad?
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: All right, fake newsha belly. You gotta keep yourself fresh.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: All right, let's stop this silliness. So I think we
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: have a couple of pictures to show because we're going
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: to be talking about all the people that were on
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: top of the overpass at the time of the assassination,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: and that includes railroad workers. I'm gonna have problem with
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: that word all night, and a couple one or two
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: police officers. You're gonna get into that. I really don't
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: know exactly who was out there. I think I have
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: statements from almost all of the railroad workers, and I
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: know we did this. We went over a couple of
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: their statements about like ten months ago, but now I
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: found more and FBI statements. So let's uh, let's get
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: into it. Thank you get me too? You looking for
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I have tattoo free? Oh you did get my Oh?
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: This is my picture?
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, this is your picture?
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, first one at the PowerPoint and you see on
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the top left of the picture three people to the
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: right with a little bit of gap for people, all
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: from the Union terminal station. And I believe this guy
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: is DPD, but I.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Do not on the guys. So I don't know what
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: you're looking at.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, standing.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Little arrow, your cursor is not up on the guys
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: that you're talking about.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Oh it might be like a delay or something.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: Uh, now it's up in that general area, and now
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: it's back down. Now it's up.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, these four the child is blocking it. And
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this is a police officer. Maybe
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: we can figure it out during this episode. But yeah,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: that is uh, obviously a picture very soon after the shots.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Right, this would be the Altan's seven, which was taken
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: ready after the Alcin sixth photo of the doorway you
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: got on your torso, yes, is that Clint Hill?
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: That is Clint Hill's ass. Yes, that is his ass.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I wasn't looking at that, but twoeets his own.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Okay. It's when you're right at what I call it,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: and you can't you can't deny, right, I mean he
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: was the only person. Yeah, you know, it is what
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Looks like Jackie's kind of back in the seat already,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: right and they're about to go under the overpass.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: He's pushing your back down the seat the bits get down?
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: What are you doing?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: All right? Is that the only one picture you wanted
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: to show before I get into the.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: This white car up here in front of the Yeah, yeah, exactly,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: and I wanted you to show your picture. I have
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: a bunch of statements from all these seven up here,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: these railroad workers that I'm gonna get into. But I'm
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: gonna let Rob.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Started off in a sense, So you showed yours, now
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna show you mine.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: All right, that's only fair, right, fair, all right.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: This is a cropped version of the picture that everybody
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: just saw of the autun seven.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: You can kind to see a little better.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna get my cursor up here. So this guy
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: appears to be wearing a suit tie and like a fedora. Right,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's a cop. I don't think so. Well,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: as we'll come to find out here in a minute
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: about where the cops actually were in this picture. But
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: you got the forewhere every workers, and then the other
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: three right here or these other people on the left
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: side are, well, maybe we'll get there. I think the
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: guy on the far left is a cop. He kind
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: of looks coppish to me. It's been said that there
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: is a maybe a shotgun or rifle like posted up
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: there between his legs in the hole. I don't know,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: but it's been said. And we'll see here. I had
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: a I kind of clear up a picture of.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow, so you have you have the gap right
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: here on the like top right hand side ish of
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: the four guys and the three right right there to
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: the right.
• 16:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, right there this gap. I think that's the gap
• 16:31
  Speaker 6: my picture, which would you say, Awkins eight seven?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Wow? That is awesome.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Now, I don't know how accurate this is or anything.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I just ai to clean it up and uh, colorize
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: it and uh, you know, kind of fill in some details, stop.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: It go back a little bit. You obviously have a
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: cop right there on the left hand.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Inside possibly, So yeah, we'll get into who that might
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: be and who this guy here in the suit might
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: be because he's not a railroad worker, but we'll get there.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I probably he is not, no, and I have his
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: testimony about.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Who he actually was.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: He was, but we'll get there, Okay, And these other
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: skuffoozas I don't know. But I don't know about this
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: chick here, I don't know if that's an accurate depiction.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: She's kind of hot, she's blowing in the breeze, nice
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: sundress on at least a I thought it was a woman.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: But when you go back and look at ship this
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: picture again, I mean you can see it's a very
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: grainy version. I can see where they pull a woman
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: out of this, but it might be. I mean, for
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: all we know who, right, So I found this cluster
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: f of a map. Uh. This is the craziest map
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: ship hold on. This is the craziest thing I've ever
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: seen in my life.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: That much. Please Uh.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: I don't even know what this is supposed to be.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: It's just a lot.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: But what it does tell us is it names all
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: the people that were up here on the overpass, Simmons, Foster,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Foster was a cop, Holland, Dodd, Miller, Skelton, Pearley or Riley, Murphy,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Bishop Potter something. I can't read it because some asshole
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: put a red square around half of them. But then
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: you have this arrow pointing down here right towards the
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: the grassy knoll, towards the pergola, and this is of
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: course where people said they saw smoke. Right and right
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: the left of it, you can see, according to Holland,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: which would be SMS or Sam Holland. He was a
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: railroad worker supervisor. He talks about some of the cars
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: that he saw back there, which I'm sure Joe will
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: get into and all of that.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: But I thought it was a this is a weird map.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: I couldn't.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Donald Robert, Oh, yeah, that's the we call it. We
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: christen this the clusterfuck map. I don't know what it's
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: all about, but it's interesting, right, all right, let me
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: get rid of this shit hold on. Okay, So, but
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: before we get there, wanted the touch on a little
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: bit about the order of vehicles in the motorcade.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Because there's some things that I didn't know.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: I thought there was just a League car that Jesse
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Curry and Bill Decker and the guy head of the
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Secret Service was in, and that was it.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: But apparently I was wrong.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: There was a lot more vehicles in front of the
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: presidential limousine than I previously had thought.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: So I wonder who was in them.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Well we'll get there, I promise in just a second.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: So the first car of the motorcade was something that
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: they called the Advanced Car, and it had one occupant,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: one person driving it, and his name was Captain Perdue Lawrence.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: His call number was one twenty five and he was
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: a Dallas Police captain. So he is in the very
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: very first car by him himself, by his little lonesome
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Let's see.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Then we have.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: The pilot car, and in this pilot car we had
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Deputy Chief of the DPD George Lummy Lumpkin, DPD Detective
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Fay Turner, DPT Detective William Billy Sankle, Lieutenant Colonel George
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Whitmire of the US Army.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Reserved East Texas Section Commander.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: For some reason, Lieutenant Colonel has nothing to sneeze that either. Uh.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: And then we have Jacob Jack l Putterball from and all.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: It says he's from the White House, so he must
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: be part of Kennedy's team. That doesn't say secret Service, White.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: House, maybe pet Coon, Department of Defense something like that.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: This was just a simple white Ford Sedan provided by
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: the DPD, let's see. And then we have some advanced
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: motorcycles and they were driven by Sergeant Bella Glenn McBride,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: no relation to.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Joe and JB. Garrick.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: They were riding Harley Davidson two wheel motorcycles and there
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: were three of them.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: More motorcycles These were the lead motorcycles, Leon Gray, Buddy Brewer,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Harold Freeman, W. G. Lumpkin, who was probably some kind
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: of relative to Old Lummy Lumpkin, and Sargs Sergeant Stavis
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Ellis Stas Elis Stavis Ellis.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Let's see it says here.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: At Maine. In Houston, Brewer and Freman joined the three
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: advanced motorcycles to assist in Stemmen's freeway traffic control, leaving Ellis,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Gray and Lumpkin leading the motorcade through Dealey Plaza. None
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: of the three leave the motorcade as it is claimed
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: to be seen in the Recruiter film, as all three
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: can be seen beyond the underpass in the Bell film
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: and in the McIntyre photograph. Ellis, Gray and Lumpkin escort
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: the motorcade to Parkland after the shots in traffic control
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: on Stemmens, Brewer reported to deeply plaiz by driving back
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: the wrong way on Elm Street. Freeman goes on to Parkland. However,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Officer Hudson testified that he thought Freeman was at the
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: entrance of the depository shortly after the shooting. Brewers later
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: inside the school book depository on the sixth floor. Mary
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Mormon number four photo, not the famous Mary Mormon photo
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: of the Grassy Old, but the ones she took before
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: that of What's her Face's Boyfriend shows Lumpkin and the
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: sixth floor corner window of the depository, which we don't
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: have because they took it and didn't give a vent.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: Shocker.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Then we have the lead car Joe finally, and in
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: this lead car was Chief Jesse Curry driving okay. Sitting
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: next to him a Special Agent Winston Lawson of the
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Secret Service.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Sitting behind him is.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Dallas County Sheriff James Eric slash Bill Decker, and seating
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: beside him was Special Agent in Charge for Sorrels of
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: the Dallas Division of the Secret Service. And they were
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: in a white Mercury four door se Edan also provided.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: To be a fly on the windshield for that one.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Special Agent loss and has a portable direct communications s
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Secret Service radio tuned to Charlie frequency. However, according to Curry,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: it wasn't working too well at the time of the assassination,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: and thus there was no radio contact between the league
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: car and the presidential limousine. And we know that there
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: was some radio contact made from Jesse Curry. According to
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: the police logs. They think, you know, they said somebody's
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: shooting at the motorcade. They think it's coming from the
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: grassy no area. Somebody needs to check it out, right,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: And then we finally get to the limousine, of course,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: when we know who was in there. And then we
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: have the presidential motorcycles flanking Billy, Joe Martin, Bobby Hargas,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: James Cheney, and Douglas Jackson d L.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Jackson. And then.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: We have.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: The Queen Mary that would be the presidential follow up
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: car of the Secret Service. And in that car there
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: was ten fucking people, if you can believe it, ten ten.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Number one driving with Sam Kenny beside him riding shotgun
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: is Emery Roberts.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Right, both Secret Service ass.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Right behind Kenny was Kenny O'Donnell, special assistant to the President,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: beside him, and behind roberts is Dave Powers, also an
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: assistant to the president. Friends of JK right, yeah, yeah,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: And behind Kenny O'Donnell is George Hickey, the guy with
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: the AR fifteen that's been accused of shooting somebody in
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: the book Mortal Error. And beside Hickey you have Glenn
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Bennett in seat six. But then you got two agents
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: on each running board on each side of the car, right,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: and those are on the driver's side you have in
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: the front position Clint Hill, and in the rear position
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: William tim McIntyre. And on the other side, the passenger side,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: the side towards the school depository, you have in the
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: front position John Jack Ready and behind him in the
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: line of fire, Paul landis the guy who just wrote
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: the book a couple of years ago, right, only come
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: out with what his version of his truth is when
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: it comes to everything. So, yeah, ten behind me somewhere
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Hen's cufu's is in the car.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: So Clint Hell jumped out of that car.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well he's on the running board. So he wasn't
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: actually in the car. He was in the front position
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: on the driver's side running.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Board, kind of like hanging out of it if you will.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Well, the running board is something you stand on, you know.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Think think like when you get into a truck and
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: you step on the step outside.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: To get up into the.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Board that you can stand on and hold on to
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: the door, right, and then they would just disembark and run.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: So Clint Hill wasn't actually in the car. He was
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: on the running, but he was standing on the running board,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: so all he had to do was like jump off
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: the car and run to get up to the limo.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Got it, thank you.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Behind the Queen Mary, we have the vice presidential car.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: This is driven by who is this Cafuza.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: There's a lot.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what TDPs stands for.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Some initials. I don't know what they are turning point USA. Uh.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Anyway, Herschel Jackson was driving whoever that is rufus young
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: blood is in shotgun seat.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Behind the driver immediately you have Ralph Senator Ralph Yarborough.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Then you have Lady Bird Johnson in the in the
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: middle seat, and then on the passenger's side, behind the
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: front seat you have Vice President Lyndon Johnson.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So two cars behind Kennedy.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, okay, so you know the president has his
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: own secret service car right behind him. Then you have
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Johnson's car, and then behind Johnson's car he has his
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: own secret service detail. Okay, and this is where we're
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: at now. This is the Vice Presidential Secret Service follow
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: of car code named Varsity, driven by TDPs. Again whoever
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: this I don't know what TDPs stands for. Joe Henry
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Rich writing shotgun up front, I'm sorry writing in the middle.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Up front is Cliff Carter, special aid to the Vice President.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: And in the passenger seat you have Special Agent Jerry
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Cavett of the Secret Service White House detailed his name.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: His code name is Daylight. And then in the rear
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: seat behind the driver you have Special Agent Warren Woody Taylor.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: And sitting behind uh the passenger seat you have Thomas
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Lemuel lim John's code named Dandy. So I guess all
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: these Secret Service guys had like code names. Interesting.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Some of them are cooler, know that others some of
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: them suck like Rufus.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Young Blood's code name was Dagger, which is a cool nickname,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: right right, I'm not even gonna say that joke. That's
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: a very poor taste, rub How dare you even think
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: that you know what Clint Hill's nickname would be? But
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I decided to skip it because I have tooth. Apparently
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: tooth and.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Class I use it.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: So, oh man, all right, make bag a laugh too much.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: So that is what we have going on.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Under the bridge downtown is wherever I drew some blood.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: And yes, yes it does bring back memories of the nineties.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: For sure red hot chili peppers.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Even I got that one.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, even though Joe was in diapers when it came out,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: he got it. He might have been brother, You're probably
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: still wearing him at five all Allegedly Joe had a
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: problem waiting to bed until he was twelve years old. Well,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: don't tell nobody, okay, uh, Jack CLINTI is not on
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: the list, Scott. Sorry, I don't know what car he
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: was in, but he's not on the list.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Although I did not go further back in the motorcade
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: than that, he may have been back there somewhere. Who
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: that Well, no real shooting. I mean, he wasn't in
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: a car, wasn't He couldn't have been.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Oh boy?
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: So when it comes to the presidential protection that day,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: all right, And there there were some Sheriff's deputies that
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: were around in different places, not necessarily assigned to certain areas.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: That was more of a Dallas Police Department deal. And
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: they had a lot of people scattered around, you know,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: posted up at the corners of major intersections things like that.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: And there was actually two cops posted up on the
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Triple Overpass, one on the north side allegedly and one
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: on the south Side allegedly. Okay, that's just as vague
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: as you can get it, all right, So I don't
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: think many people have really went into detail about these dudes.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: But one of their names is J. W.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Foster.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, they asked him where he lives, they asked him
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: he was just a patrolman with the Dallas PD. That's
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: why anybody dressed like a detective. Okay, it's not the
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: guy we're looking for here. We're looking for two guys
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: in uniform. These guys, both these guys that were supposedly
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: posted up here, are not plain clothes. They're not detectives.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: They would have been wearing a uniform as the first
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: guy we're gonna be talking about.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Foster was just a basic patrol man, kind of like Tippet.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Drove around and he was dispatched to certain places, and
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: when it wasn't, he was just driving around looking for
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: guys to rough Upright, Yeah, this guy Foster had been
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: with the police department for nine years and he made
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: it through the ninth grade of high school. So we're
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: dealing with Johnny geniuses here, Okay, I mean, you know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I guess it was a different time, Joe.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: It was a different time, especially then if you're talking fifties, right, yeah,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: well you know sixty three, yeah, well nine years before.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: That, right, yes, Yes, he had a lot of life
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: experience in those nine years since dropping out of school
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: in ninth grade. Apparently, what they asked him what he
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: did after that? And he said, he went into the service,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: into the army.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: And then what did you do? Foster says, like.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Jesus, I was a carpenter for eight years, perfect background
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: to become up patrolman.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Then what did you do?
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I come to work here, of course I got tired
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: of sawdust and shit get in my eyes, and you know,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of right angles to cut, and you know,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: it's just.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: A lot of hand movement, lot of tandem.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. What kind of work were you doing in November
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: of sixty three for the DPDS And I was working
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: in the traffic division. I was an investigation of accidents.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: This is the guy they had investigating your car accidents,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Joe right t ninth grade dropout carpenter.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Is this Warren Commission or HCA, This.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: Is Warrenant Commission.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: They did not talk to this guy for the HSCA
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: that I'm aware of.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: They probably didn't need to.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Uh. He was assigned to the Triple Overpass to keep
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: all unauthorized personnel off of it. Allegedly, Now the railroad
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: guys are authorized personnel. I mean it's the it's their property,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: right right. They asked him do you do you call
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: it the triple overpass?
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: And he says, well, you got three streets running down
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: through it.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: What are they? Commerce? Mad and il?
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: So then they bring out a map and YadA, YadA, YadA.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: He said where. They say, where are you on the
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: overpass and he says, yes, sir, at the east side
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: of the overpass, east side, So.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Let me stop you looking at the overpass from the
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: TSBD angle? Is that the right or the left?
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: Is that the.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: I think that's the right.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I think that's the right right Allegedly. What it fucks
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: me up because you have the north, the North Knowle
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: and the South Knowle, and then you have the east
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: side of the bridge and the west side of the bridge,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: which is right. So I'm thinking east is on the right. Allegedly.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're looking at it from the from
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: the angle of the book depository, you know, if you
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: think I'm looking due north, then it is east, so
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say the right side. There was another
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: officer assigned in that same position. He said, he was
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: assigned to the overpass with me.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir. What was his name? J? C. White? Where
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: was he? Well, he was on the west side of
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: the overpass.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: So you got one of them supposedly over here, and
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: one of them over there at the edge, allegedly.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: And a bunch of workers in between.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, allegedly.
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Now what's interesting here is after he answers this question,
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Joseph Ball takes the conversation off the record mhm, which
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: is interesting, of course. And then he says, back when
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: the director whenever they do that, it's a problem. Yeah.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: So then they got a map here exhibit at A.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: There's the railroad overpass running in the north and south direction.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Is that right?
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Over that pass come trains into the yard. Is that right, yes, sir.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: And that yard is to the north and west of
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: the school book depository. He said, well, that's the whole thing.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: They have yards all over up there. And boy asked him, well,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: what is the general direction from the school bok depository building?
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: He said, they have yards to the north and some
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: to the south of it. Down below the terminal, there
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: are yards south. They have yards here, indicating on a
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: map somewhere that is north and west, yes, sir, and
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: also south.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: So north and west or south and east is north,
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: and west is east, and north is west and south
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: is west. Apparently yes again ninth grade education folks get yeah.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Uh uh you Kadola, I think I said that right.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Actually said east side of the overpass should be on
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: the Dally Plaza side.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking, the right side of You say,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: if you're looking at on the right side, you know,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: even though the whole area is Dlely Plaza there, you're
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: lucky to lucan. But that's okay unless he's talking about
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: the east side of the bridge, the overpath.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Everything's all funky here in bizarro world. They asked him,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: did you permit some people to be there? And he
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: said yeah. Who were They were people that were working
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: for the railroad. Where how many people? He said, ah,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: about ten or eleven? Where were they standing? They were
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: standing along the east banister. The east banister, yes, sir,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: in front of me, okay, in front of you, Well,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: will you make a mark and show the people the
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: general area where they were standing. So he indicates on
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: a map. They say, you have marked a series of
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: excess to show where ten people were standing, Yes, sir,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: where you're looking towards them, Yes, sir. Did you have
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: another officer with you there on duty that day?
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: He said, not on that side. He was on the
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: west side, the west side.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: What was his name, j C.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: White?
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: For the third time, mister Ball, Uh so, I maybe
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: he was on the back side of this, Joe, I
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Wording is extremely confusing.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: It's a little Yeah, it's a little confusing, for sure.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I really don't know what to think of it. Because
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: if you're in front of them, you can't really be
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: in front of them. If they're on a little bridge
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: and I've gone over that bridge.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: It's it's very narrow.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: It's very narrow. Yeah, Like there's not like a spot
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: where you can chill like six people back, you know.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: No, it's like if there's a hobo there, you gotta
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: like step over them, yeah, exactly, And I've got to
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: do that, all right.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: So let's get into the shooting now finally, and Foster
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: says that well after he came on to elm street.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I was watching the men up on the track more
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: than I was him. Literally, Then I heard of me
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: a loud noise sounded like a big old firecracker, kind
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: of dumbfan the first and then heard the second one.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I moved to the banister side of the overpass to
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: see what was happening. Then the third explosion, and they
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: were all beginning to move around. I ran after I
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: saw what was happening. What did you see happening? Well,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I seen the President slump over in the car and
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: his head looked like it just done blew up like
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: a watermelon. You saw that, did you, yes, sir?
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: And what did you do? Then?
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Well, it was at that time I broke and ran
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: around to my right to the left, around to the bookstore.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing he means the depository, so let's get that right.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: I ran around to my right to the left, around
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: to the bookstore. This guy is the fucking worst witness ever.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you think he means if you're on
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: the bridge, like say, you're in the middle of the overpass,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: and then you walk right, but then you go left
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: like towards the fence.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Bro I don't know.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I can't even begin to decipher what this guy's even
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: talking about.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: I mean this is literally his answer.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Literally, his answer, I'm sure I ran around to my right,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: to the left, around to the bookstore.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Literally his answer, right, maybe he's on like towards the parallel. Yeah.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Well, did you have any opinion at the time as
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: to the source of the sounds, the direction of the sounds?
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir, What were they?
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Well, it came from back and toward the corner of
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: elm in Houston Street. That was your impression at the time, yes, sir.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Was any shot fired from the overpass? No, sir.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Did you see anyone with the weapon there?
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: No, sir.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: Did you hear any sound that appeared to come from
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: the overpass?
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: No, sir.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: Where'd you go from there?
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Went on around the backside of the bookstore? Okay, did
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: you see anybody coming out that side of the bookstore?
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: No, sir.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: That would be the closest side to the bookstore or
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: the depository, as like, closest to the the bridge, the
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: over pass, Right, he wouldn't have gone around the others.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: He would have gone.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know, man, I don't know what this
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: guy's saying, But I think I'm trying to figure out this,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Ball says. Ball asked him back side, what do you
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: mean by that? And his answer is, well, I guess
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: you could say the northwest side of it. You can't
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: make this shit up, right. So the boss says, where
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: did you go from there? Or no? I'm sorry, He says,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: were there any people in the railroad yards around the
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: bookstore at the time? He said, yes, sir, there was
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: a pretty good crowd beginning to gather back in that
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: area at that time.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Had you seen anybody over the railroad yard north and
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: west of the bookstore before you heard the shots fired? Nope,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: other people that had come up there, and I sent
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: them back down the roadway. I see people had attempted
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: to get on the overpass there, Yes, sir, and you
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: sent them away?
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir. When you got over to.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: The school book depository building, what'd you do? I was
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: standing around and back there to see that. No one
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: came out, and Sor came and got me, and we
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: were going to check all the railroad cars down there.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: He said, uh, who was that?
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: Sergeant?
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Foster said, sergeant came up there. His name Sergeant.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: You didn't have them h.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: No.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: Did you search the railroad cars?
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: My god? Foster said no.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: He sent me back down to the inspector after that,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: told me to report to Inspector Sawyer. Where at the
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: front of the book depository. Did you talk to Sawyer
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: down there?
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir. Did you tell your.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Sergeant whoever or Sawyer either one, where you thought the
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: shots came from.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir. What did you tell them?
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Uh? Uh?
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: I told them it came from that vicinity up around
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: elm in Houston. Did you tell the sergeant at first,
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: or did you tell that to Sawyer? He said, well,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: I just just told that the sawyer. Did you tell
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: that to your sergeant? I don't know whether I told
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: sergeant that or not.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: What did you do after that?
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I moved to down the roadway there, down to see
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: if I could find where any of the shots hit.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: Bos says, you find anything?
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Foster says, yes, sir, found where one shot that hit
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: the turf there at the location hit the turf, Yes, sir.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Did you see any marks on the street any place?
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: No, it was a man hold cover.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: It was hit.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: They caught the manhold cover right at the corner. And oh,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Ball cuts him off right there, Shocker can't have that now, No,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: and Boss says, oh, you saw mark on the manhole cover?
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Did you?
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir? And Ball says, I'll show you a picture
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: here of a concrete flab or a manhole cover. Do
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: you recognize that picture? Yes, sir? Does the picture show?
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Tell me what it shows there? Well, this looks like
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: the corner here where it penetrated the turf right here.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Do you see any mark on the manhole cover itself? No, sir,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't not on the well, it is on the turf,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: on the concrete right in the corner. Now, Joe, I
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: may be a little slow at times, but there's a
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: big difference between turf and concrete.
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: Am I correct in that assessment? You are what would
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: be considered in the dirt.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: In the grass It would be, you know, a hard
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: man made material.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: That we drive on. Sometimes it's called concrete.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, just checking, Yeah, you're you're good. Okay. Can you
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: put an arrow showing the approximate place you saw that
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: he should have been right about here, indicating what I'm out,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: Ball says, make it deep enough to make a mark there, Son,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: The arrow marks the position where you believe you saw
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: mark on the pavement. Yes, sir, it was not on
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: the manhole cover. No, sir, went into the turf, yes, sir.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Did you recover any bullet? No, sir, it ricocheted off
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: the concrete.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: How can both of those be true?
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: So the bullet went into the turf, but it ricocheted
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: off the concrete. I mean, seriously, this guy is a numbskull.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: Or or Joseph Ball has him so confused he didn't
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: know whether he's coming or going. Could be either one.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Also, sure, awesome, Bacher.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Did you have the cram lay make a picture of
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: that spot? No, somebody called them to the location and
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: told them to make a picture of it. Falter says no,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't tell them nothing, called them to the spot
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: and let him take it. Can I see the picture?
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Ball says, yeah, this is the picture we're looking at. Son.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: Foster says, well, I guess that resembles the picture I saw.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: I mean they're just talking in circles now, like right then,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: you know, they wrap it up. Officer, This will be
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: written up and submitted to you for your signature, and
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: you can read it over and change it any way
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: you wish, or you just may wave your signature to
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: Which do you prefer?
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Foster says, well, it doesn't matter, Bos says, suit yourself,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: You make the choice. Falter says, well, I just as
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: soon as go ahead and just signing it over with
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: right now. Okay, we'll notify you and you can get
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: in here and sign it alrighty, thank you. Oh one
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: more question for you, mister Foster before you go. Who
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: gave you your assignment please? That would be Deputy Harkness.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: And you did permit some railroad employees to remain on
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: the overpass? He said, yes, sir, they were authorized to
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: be there. And he asked them, well, how'd you determine
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: that they.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Were railroad employees?
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Well they look like them.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Boy, you text the words right out of my mouth. Well,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: they were dressed like them.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: I was the guests, by the way, and.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: The other men that was with them, verifying that they
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: were employees. Right, So they vousked for each other.
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: He works with me down there. Yeah he works me too.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: We all work together, you know.
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: I see we have the railroad clothes on.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: I got my engineer hat on, got my coveralls on.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: I'm dirty, I'm a railroad worker.
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: Man, you know what do you want from me?
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Look the part be the part mother effort.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all says okay, sir, you have a nice day,
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: and sends him on his little mary way and pats
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: him on his anus, and you know, sends him on
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: his way.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: Comes the other officer on the overpass.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, so this would be on the west side.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll see where he puts himself here, Joe, ok okay, okay,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: we'll see if he's just as confused.
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: It's Foster.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: My guess might be us.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: You might be right. This is the testimony of J. C. White.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: If it ain't white, it ain't right.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: So they swear in mister White here, you were asked
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: to come here by your white, says my captain, which
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Captain White says our captain. Captain, No, I'm joking. He
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: didn't say that, he said, Captain Lawrence. So ball's basically,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: uh you know, he says, we asked Chief Curry if
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: we could have you come up here and testify, and
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I guess that's the reason you're here.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: You're willing to testify. He said, yeah, sure, tell us
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: what you know.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: About it, son, basically, which is an odd way to
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: start off the questioning, very weird. I don't know.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: Well, I can ask you questions, sir, and you can
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: answer them.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, I will try. Yeah, I will ask you questions. Then, Son,
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: where were you born van Elstein, Texas? Where'd you go
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: to school? Van Elstein, Texas? How far through school?
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: Ninth grade?
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: Another ninth grader on the bridge?
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: Then what did you do?
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: I went into the army? Okay, yeah, almost three years?
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: And what did you do?
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: I started driving a city bus after that?
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Interesting?
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: How long did you drive a city bus? Son? Six years?
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Then what'd you do? I joined the police department? Sir?
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: How long ago?
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: In nineteen and fifty six? Now, Son, on November twenty second,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, did you have an assignment? Yes, sir?
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: Where on the Triple underpass? And were you there with someone? Yes, sir?
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: Where on the Triple Underpass? Who was with you? J? W? Foster?
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Okay? Stand?
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Where were you?
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: And he says?
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: I was standing on the west side of the overpass.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: On the west side of the overpass.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, where were you? With reference to Elm Main or
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Commerce as they go underneath, he said, I'm about the
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: north curb of Main. Street, I'd say interesting. Interesting, Yeah,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: that would be on the west side of the overpass.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, opposite from Foster right.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: So now they have him mark what then X where
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: he was on this map, which he does it with
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: his initials.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: It's probably probably a Warrant Commission.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Exhibit, am I, it probably is.
• 58:33
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: Is there a rail there? Yes, sir.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: How many people was on the overpass that day? And
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: White says on the same side I was on? Yes, none,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: boss is none. Many people attempt to come up on
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: the overpass around around noon? Not on my side, they
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: did not, No, sir. Had you seen your partner send
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: any people away from the overpass?
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: Yes, sir.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: You had certain instructions, didn't you, Yes, sir?
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: What were they not to let any.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Unauthorized personnel on top of the overpass. Now you did
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: permit some people to stay on the overpass, didn't you, Yes, sir.
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: Who were they workers of the railroad company? Were they
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: people that you knew?
• 59:27
  Speaker 7: No?
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Well, how'd you know they were workers with the railroad?
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: Well most of them were already there when we got there,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: working on the rails. Pretty easy to say. They worked
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: there and you let them stay there? Yes, sir, did
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: you see the President's car come into sight. No, first
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: time I saw it. The first time that I saw it,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: it had already passed under the triple overpass.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: What it's on the backside?
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah? What the fuck is this guy watching?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: He wasn't scrolling, He couldn't scroll back then, I don't know.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: And he didn't have no action on his side of
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: the overpass.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: Apparently right it.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Was less populated. We're talking like closure to the south knoll,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: as you will, right like where that walked truck alleged to.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: Have been Linda.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't know, all right, I said, alleged
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: I killed me. But but if you look at the pictures,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: I guess the.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: What is that?
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: The west side was more populated.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: And boy asked him, well, you were too far away
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: to see it, weren't you? And he says, well, there
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: was a freight train traveling. There was a train passing
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: between the location I was standing in the area from
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: which the procession was traveling, and a big long freight train,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: So I did not see it. Okay, you didn't see
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: the procession, no, sir. Before the train went dot went by,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: did you see some railroad personnel on the it be
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: the east side. Yes, sir, ah how many, he says,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: about ten? I didn't actually count them all. Did you
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: hear any shots? No, sir, you didn't, No, sir. The
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: first time you saw the President's car was after it
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: went underneath, yes, sir. And you didn't hear any shots
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: at all.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: No, sir. Well, as soon as the train passed, I went.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: Over on the northwest side of the depository building, on
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: the northwest side of the bookstore up there with the
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: rest of the officers. And after about thirty minutes they
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: told me to go out and work traffic at Maine
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: in Houston.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: And I said, out there and I worked traffic.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Bos said all right, now you again, heard no sound,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: no rifle fire, no shots, no anything.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: White says, no, sir.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Boss said, son, do you have any hearing impediments that
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: might be from hearing anything? No, sir. You say there
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: was a freight train going through at the time, yes, sir,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: making noise. Yes, sir, it was a noisy train. I
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: couldn't hear nothing but the train Boss's eye I see,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: mm hmmm.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, all right, So he.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: Had enough of that ship.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: He said, alrighty, this deposition will be written up in
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: some minuta.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you for.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: He said, he will wave the bullshit and sign and
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: boss says you wave it.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, fine, yeah, wow wow.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Jinx.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: That's not all. Oh, there is another.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: There is another, allegedly, do you tell me? Well, this
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: is the testimony of Joe Murphy. They asked him what
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: his occupation is. He says, I'm a police officer. How
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: long have you been with the department. I'm in my
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: twenty first year, so a veteran. Wow with the Dallas PD.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: He says, yes, where were you born?
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: Right here in Dallas.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Where'd you go to? Where did you go to school?
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: He says, I went to Saint Joseph High School here
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: in Dallas. You went all through school here in Dallas,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: did you? He said, yes, sir, that's ray What did
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: you do after you got out of high school? He said, well,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: I played pro baseball for about two years Class D
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: West Texas New Mexico League. After that, I went to
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: work for Humble Oil Company in Raytown. I was down
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: there about two years and came back to Dallas and
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: I went to work on the police force. And you've
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: been here ever since. Yes, sir, you're a patrolman. Are
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: you that's right. Do you have a three wheeler? I
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: do a three wheeler Harley Davidson on November twenty second,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: did they assign you to some post? And he said yes,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: I was assigned to the overpass these Stemmens Freeway Overpass
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: northbound at Elm Street over Elm.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: What instructions did you have?
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: It was to keep anyone and everyone off the overpass
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: and to keep traffic moving until the motorcate arrived. So
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: apparently this guy was not up on the overpass. He
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: was down below keeping people away from it.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: But apparently he didn't do.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: A good job because some people made it up to Foster,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: who had to turn away at some point. Right right,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: So Joe, let's get into a little bit about the witnesses,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: the other folks that weren't cops upon the.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: Overpass. If you will, please, sir, sure you.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: Can put it up.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 8: I don't know if you want to look at a
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 8: couple of comments. I've been behind on them, so sorry, guys,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 8: I haven't seen them. I think the child is in
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 8: their own world as usual.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I think I highly enthralled them and entertainment with me
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: the user of the mind.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as you do. So kind of call over a couple.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: I believe I have seven skafuzas who are up there.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: And this is Austin Lawrence Miller. This is his day
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: of dpd Affidavid. I believe we did go over this
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: at some point, like a year or something ago. My
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: business and breast blah blah blah. I am Roy Shelton,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: who works with me, was standing at the triple spelt
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: wrong under pass bridge with a large group of people
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: watching for the presidential motorcade. I saw a convertible automobile
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: turn west on Elm off Houston Street, and I proceeded
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: about halfway from Houston Houston Street to the other past one.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: I heard what sounded like a shot. A short second
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: two more sharp reports. I believe this was to say
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: I ran in the back seat, slurped over or maybe
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: a woman again. You have cops typing this up ran
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: the back seat, slipped over, and a woman in bright
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: coil colored dress orange or yellow, grabbed the man and yelled.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: One shot apparently hit the street past the car. Could
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: have been the shot you were talking about. Rob. I
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: saw something which I thought was smoke or steam coming
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: from a group of trees north of Elm off of
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: the railroad tracks. That would be the grass. You know,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: I did not see anyone on the tracks or in
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: the trees. A large group of people concentrated, and a
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: motorcycle officer dropped his motor and took off on foot
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: to the car. So let's see what he has to say.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: A couple months later or a month later in his
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: FBI interview, Austin Miller or this is a recap summary,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: advised that he and fellow worker Roy Skelton decided to
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: watch the presidential mortarcade on November twenty second, sixty three
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: from the railroad tracks on top of the Triple Railroad
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: on the Elm Street side facing east. They arrived at
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: this spot about twelve to fifteen pm and waited until
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: the motorcate came by. He saw an open top limousine
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: containing people turning left off of Houston driving west directly
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: in front of the TSPD. He heard three shots and
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: also noticed a powder dust spray in the street directly
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: to the driver's side and rear of the car. He
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: immediately looked to his left, which would have been towards
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: the knoll on top of the bridge and back on
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: the hill west of the TSBD to see if anyone
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: was standing there. Mister Miller advised that he and fellow
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: worker Skelton decided to watch. Oh I think, I said,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: I said that already.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 9: It was in his first impression that the noise of
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 9: the first shots was a motorcycle backfire or firecrackers where
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 9: we heard that. Before turning back to observe the car,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 9: he saw someone fall forward, but he could not tell
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 9: who it was in the car, and in the car
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 9: was there driving very fast under the railroad overpass. So
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 9: this is before the motorcy goes up to the bridge
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 9: the overpass. After the car disappeared, a motorcycle policeman drove
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 9: up on the hill west of where other men that
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 9: he assumed were plane clothes police officers. And we saw
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 9: that picture on the bridge that you showed Rob. I
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 9: would put my money on that if I was a betting.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: Man, some carrying guns in their hands, and other ununiformed
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: police officers also running up the hill. He noticed that
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: there was no one moving on the hill other than
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: the police officers or on the railroad tracks behind the
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: park wall. He did not notice anyone in the building
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: and did not know where the quote shot end quote
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: sounds came from Okay, let's get to h M Holland
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: and Rob. We showed a video in Holland. I'm sorry,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: smhol we showed a video of him last time we
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: touched upon the subject. Yeah, but I have a new
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: video for you, and it's in here. It's in our
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: private chat by the way, that I want you to
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: kind of queue up. Mmm mmmm, I insist. I am
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: signal supervisor for the union terminal and I was inspecting
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: signal and switches and stopped to watch the parade. I
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: was standing on top of the Triple Overpass and the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: President's car was coming down Elm Street, and when they
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: got just about to the arcade, Perugal kind of I
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: heard what I thought for a moment was a firecracker,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: and he slumped over, and I looked over towards the
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: arcade and trees and saw a puff of smokes and
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: obviously second puff of smoke. Comment but there, But that
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: was the only puff of smoke I saw. I immediately
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: ran around to where I could go see behind the
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: arcade the fence, and did not see anyone running from there,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: but the puff of smoke I definitely I saw definitely
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: came from behind the arcade through the trees. After the
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: first shot, the presence slumped. Blah blah blah, blah blah.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: Kind of more of the same. Now we're gonna go
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: to mister Royce Shelton, also.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: Of the Union.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: Terminal. And again, these are all the skuffoozes we were
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: talking about when we first showed that video at the
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: beginning of the episode. Here right, Yes, I was standing
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: on top of the train track Trussel where it crosses
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: Elm Street with Austin Miller, who we just read his statement.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: We saw the motorc cake come around the corner and
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: I heard something which I thought was fireworks. Again, I
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: saw something hit the pavement at the left rear of
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: the car. Then the car got in the right hand
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: lane and I heard two more shots. So that shots
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: sequence is a problem when you think about if some
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: shot hit the grass. But he's saying one hit the
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: curve and there were two more, as I think you
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: and I believe there were a lot more shots than
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: were accounted for, no matter where they landed. Yeah, couple
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: of you, Yeah, a couple of three. I then heard
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: another shot and saw the bullet hit the pavement. The
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: concrete was knocked to the south away from the car.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if this, if this involves take
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: James Tager or not. It hit the pavement in the
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: left or middle lane. I went down to my car
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: radio to see if I could find out what happened.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: After I came back up, the policeman asked me if
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: I had seen anything and brought me to the sheriff's office,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: which is why you have this first haf David, okay
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: that Skelton, let's forward to long commission testimony or miss
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: the ball? Wait a minute, let me ask you some
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: questions about that. Tell me now about the smoke. Did
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: you see some smoke skeleton after those two shots and
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: the car came down closer to the triple underpass, Well,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: there was another shot, two more shots I heard, but
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: one of them I saw a bullet, and I guess
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: it was a bullet. I take for granted it was
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: hit in the left front of the President's car on
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: the cement, and when it did, the smoke carried with
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: it away from the building. You mean there was some
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: smoke in the building. No, on the pavement, Skelton says,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: pavement when it was hit with a hard object. It
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: will scatter, it will spread. Sounds like a dude that
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: knows his ballistics, at least as a layman. Which way
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: did it spread? It spread just in line like you said,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: I haven't said anything. Tell me what you think it was,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Ball said, Skeleton, Like I said, south of us, it
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: would be southwest, you know, in a direct line from
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: the TSBD I see. In other words, the spray seem
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: to have gone to the west. Is that right? Yes,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: all right, thank you very much. Ball got the answer
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: he wanted. The interviewer, Yep, you go, Red Skelton, Yeah,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: And we got James Simmons, another, let's say, an employee
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: of the Union Terminal. Simmons advised that he furnished his name,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: as did the other people on the viaduct, to an
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: unknown man who he thought was to be a reporter.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: Interesting he stated that none of the ten persons in
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: the group had been interviewed concerning the assassination to his knowledge.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Simmons stated that he and his friends are all employees
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: of the Union Terminal Company, South Houston Street, Texas, Dallas, Texas,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: with the exception of a Dallas police officer who was
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: standing with this group on the viaducts. We must have
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: only saw one.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Of the two right, allegedly.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: Allegedly, he stated that he and his friends have not
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: come forward since they were on duty at a time
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: and the assassination and we're not authorized to leave their
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: jobs to observe the parade. Everyone was there. Simmons requested
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: that his name not be mentioned to either witnesses or
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: to his employer in connection with his call. And following
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: is a list of names furnished by Simmons. So he
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: gave a bunch of names. Wait where is this? Oh?
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: There it is. Sorry, we're gonna hear from Potter, We're
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: gonna hear from Dodd in person. We're from Holland you
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: talked about Foster, So we're kind of getting close to
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: ten here. Mister Calvin Dodd if Dallas, Texas was interviewed
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: and March of sixty four, say that he is employed
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: at the Union Terminal company. Blah blah blah blah blah
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: blah blah. But Rob, why don't you put up this
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: video because I think as we talk about.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, i'd rather hear Richard Died talked and here you
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: as hear you say what he said, yeah, all right,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: hold hold the phone. Let's hear it straight from the
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: old Texas horse horse's mouth, shall we we shall? Oh?
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 3: Look, I damn it.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: I knew we had to shoot her up on the
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: damn overpass. Look, it was Alan Dulls the whole time.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: That's son of a bitch. That's son of a bitch.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: We solved it, bro Jim, and he has been right
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: this whole time. Unbelievable.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: Screw me, damn it.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: When you're when you're wrong, you're wrong.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: We're mad enough to admit it. Occasionally, yeah, very often. Uh,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: all right, let's hear from old dotty boy. Oh, mister Dodd. Yeah,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: here we go, Joe, here's mister Dodd.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: Look at this cowboy here, he's two.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: It's definitely not a ten gallon hat. That may be
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: a two gallon hat.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: All right, here we go.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: We got Richard Dick Dodd in his two gallon hat.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: Here we go, also graduate of the ninth grade legend.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 4: Where were you on November twenty second, mister Dodd, let's be.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 7: Knowing the underpast Commerce underpass in Dallas.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 4: Text you were you there alone?
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 7: The longest three friends.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 4: Of mine railroad men.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 7: Yeah, all railroad man, mister Holland was one of them.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: I'm try it.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 4: And did you see anything which might indicate to you
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: where the shots came from?
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 7: Well, uh, we all three seen four seen about the
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 7: same thing as the shots. The smoke came from behind
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 7: the hedge on uh north side of the plaza, and
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 7: a motorcycle policeman dropped his motorcycle in the street with
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 7: his gun his hand and run up the embankment to
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 7: the hedge.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: And then.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 7: I went north to look around the corner to see
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 7: if there's anyone behind the hedge. Had met especially agent
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 7: the Katie Railroad, and he went down there, and I
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 7: walked along with him to see if there were any
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 7: tracks there, in which there were tracks and cigarettes, but
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 7: were laying where if someone had been standing on a
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 7: bumper looking over the fence or or something.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 4: Were you questioned by agents of any government agency on
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: November twenty seconds to.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 7: Dodd, Yes we were, if we'd take over to the courthouse,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 7: and questioned by I suppose she could service me in
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 7: of some kind, And uh asked me quite a few
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 7: questions about the same as I've told you men here today.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: But you were never called as a witness by the Warre. Nah,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: there was called because there's the Warren Report and in
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 4: the index your name is not listed, and there's no
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 4: reference in the whole eight hundred eighty eight pages of
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: the fact that you were up there and you saw
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 4: what you saw.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: You heard what you heard.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 7: Well, uh, I don't know about that. Oh, but uh
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 7: there were something that uh looks to me like it
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 7: uh going on there that somebody should have found out something.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 7: A man walked up and she to man handcuffed a
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 7: couple of policemen and get away with that. I figured
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 7: it's something else going on beside if I should be.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: M m mm hmm.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: Lord, I mean, dude, it's funny, but he kind of
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: seems credible to me.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, Uh, not a veteran of being on camera apparently. Yeah,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: he's got a low Texas drawl to him.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 7: Boy.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he does tell you really didn't have too much
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: of edge mcation.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he maybe manage the ninth grade, but no, he
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: dropped out in the night. He was one of the
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: ones that dropped out in the ninth right, Yeah, yeah, wow,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: you and we haven't played that one before. We played
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: one of the other witnesses on the bridge, but uh, Rob,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: if you want to put my powerpoints back up, or actually,
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: let's check a couple of colins. This guy friend of
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: Holland Yeah, you know what, they all kind of knew
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: each other. Some of them weren't. Like when you see
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: you all. I'm just gonna say, like tennish people there,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: they all kind of knew each other, but not all
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: of them knew each other, like maybe Buell and Lee,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: you know, like they were they knew each other by
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: looks and stuff like that, and they were able to
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: kind of finagle their way onto the overpass because they
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: worked there, right, that makes sense, but not all of
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: them were like one big friend group is what I've
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: kind of concluded. That makes sense, like a deep friend group.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're gonna have some buddies that you work
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: with to get along better with others you know, right.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: Well, like Miller is like good friends with Skelton, but
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: he might not have known you know, DoD As well,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: for example. And I'm just saying you know what I mean,
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: Like when you have ten people, you might know some
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: people based on their looks and you've seen them in
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: the workplace, but you might not be you know, you
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: might not know the name of their kids.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: Well brings to a t. You have pretty much all
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: the railroad workers saying the shots came from the knole, correct.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: You have the two cops up on there saying, well,
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: one didn't even hear them, so he has no frame
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: of reference whatsoever. And the other guy said they came.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: It came somewhere down from near Main and Element Houston,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: right the school depository. M hm. But all the other
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: people up there, all the railroad were going to say
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: that they they thought the shots came from there. They
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: saw smoke wafting out from under the tree line there,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: but you know, through the hedges, could have been car exhaust,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: could have been cigarette smoke, could have been from a
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: rifle shot. And a lot of them did go around
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: and and and look, as Sam Holland did as well,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: and so that they saw muddy footprints up on a bumper,
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: lots of cigarette butts that had been freshly smoked stamped
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: out right behind the fence. And you also have Lee
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: Bowers back there in his tower of power, who said,
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: you know, he had a good advantage point at what
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: was going on behind the grass.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: You no fence. He's a weird one.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: But uh, there was another guy up there, Joe, who
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: wasn't a cup and he wasn't a railroad worker.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: All right, well, I'm guessing you have some stuff on him.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: Do you want to I have a couple more workers
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: if you want to add my power point back up
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: to the screen, a couple more slides and then get
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: back to your guy at the end. Does that sound okay?
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: If you insist, I don't like to lose my train
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: of thought.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: We have Dodd, we just heard from him. Of course
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: we have now Nolan Potter. Potter advised that he is
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: a hostler helper for the Union Terminal Company, and I
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: don't remember, I don't remember twenty second He was attending
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: on the Elm Street Viaduct with some fellow employees, awaiting
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: motorcade for John FK. JFK. Potter stated that when the
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: President's car had turned onto Elm Street and driven past TSBD,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: he heard three loud shots, they say, reports, which sounded
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: like firecrackers. He then saw President Kennedy slumpover. Blah blah blah.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: We all heard of this. Potter said. There were people
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: running in every direction, and he noticed a policeman driver's
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: motorcycle up the slope towards the TSBD building.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: Once again, he missed the gym in the middle of
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: all the bullshit.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: All right, what I miss smoke? Yeah, yeah, smoke in
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: front of the TSPD and and think sorry, I think
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: of where he was right, he's looking the TSPD is
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: to his left as he's on the over right, yeah, right,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: which is in the direction of the no area. He
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: had no further information of any value. This is an
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: FBI document. Then you have Curtis Bishop. He advised that
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: he is employed as a hostler as well hostler the
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: Union Terminal company, and on November twenty second, he was
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: attending on the Elm Street viaduct, was and fellow employees
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: awaiting JFK's motorcade. Bishop stated that when JFK's car came
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: into view, he started down Elm Street past the TSBT
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: building when he heard three shots ring out. I'm trying
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: to think of his.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: Walk there.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: He would have had to make it write when he
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: got over the viaduct and then gone towards TSPD. Bishop
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: recalls seeing a motorcycle policeman. We know that. Bishop stated
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: of the President Kennedy's car. Then picked up speed and
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: drove down Elm Street. Could not offer any more information
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: of value. Then you also have Thomas Murphy, another skafuza
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: up there, who was employed as a male foreman at
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: the Union Terminal company. Murphy said he was so employed
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: on the said he was so employed on the morning
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: or remember twenty second, what does that mean? He and
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: some of his coworkers stood on the Elm Street overpassed
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: to watch President kennedy mortorcade drive by. Murphy said that
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: they watched Kennedy's limousine turned down Elm Street, past the
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: TSBD building and start towards them. He stated he then
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: heard what sounded like two shots. He saw Prince Kennedy
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: and Governor Connolly slump in their seats. Murphy said, in
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: his opinion, these shots came from a spot just west
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: of the TSBD, which would have been the knoll. I
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: believe it's my if my calculations are correct. He said
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: there was very much confusion in the area after the
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: shots were fired, and he saw many people running towards
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: the parking lot west of the TSBD. Murphy said he
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: cannot recall seeing any unusual activity and blah. So again
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: we reviewed statements from Rob did this, which we think
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: is Foster right on the right here. Yeah, yeah, and
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: at least five or six seven out of seven of
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: the Uh.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: It's very hard to find a complete uncropped version of
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: the altar and seven.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's a motherfucker.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: I tried and tried and tried. I could find a
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: little piece enough to piece it together, but not the
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: entire complete uncropped version.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: I couldnt freaking find it.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: And I would have had enough time, but I just
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: didn't have enough time to find it. We were.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: The third this episode together. Thanks Martin.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: It happens, man, It's all good. But you know, a
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: lot of these railroad workers' statements corroborate each other in
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: terms of the smoke, in terms of the motorcycles, the
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: motorcycle cops, and your picture showed I think about three
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: more to the left of the seven, correct. But yeah,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, these guys were in a perfect position, and
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: you can't discount their testimony.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: You can't, No, I mean they had a bird's out
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: of view of Elm Street and everything happening down there, right,
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: It's very hard to dismiss what they have to say.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, you see how the you see how the
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: warrant commission lawyers treated these jaggalloons up there, and those
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: are the ones that actually made it. Most of them
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: didn't make it to the warrant commission.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: Mm hm.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: You know, just two dumb Dallas cops, one who didn't
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: hear or see nothing, and then the other one he
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't know directions from his asshole to his belly button.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 3: So yeah, that's what we get.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, man, that's uh, I believe that's all
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: I have here. You could take that down. Yeah, I
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: know we've talked about a couple of them before, but
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: this is more of a different take on it, if
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: you will.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: Back to the guy who was not a cop and
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: who was not a railroad worker who made it up there.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: Like in the suit.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, likely the guy in the suit that we saw.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: His name was Robert Davison and at the time, he's
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: a thirty two year old Dallas resident, and he watched
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: the motorcade approach head on from his vantage point on
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: the Triple Underpass. In a twenty thirteen interview with The
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: Augusta Chronicle, he detailed exactly what he witnessed from just
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: thirty yards away.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: This is what he said he saw.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: Davison was looking straight at President kennedy Is limousine round
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: at Elm Street and moved directly toward his position on
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: the railroad bridge the first shot he witnessed, Kennedy lurched
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: forward and clutched his neck when the first bullet struck.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: The second shot about ten yards further down the road,
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: he saw the second shot hit the President, causing him
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: to slump over, looking into the car because the vehicle
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: passed right under him. Davison looked at directly down into
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: the back seat, seeing yellow roses scattered everywhere and Jackie
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: Kennedy's skirt covered in blood. Davison stated that he knows
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: for a fact that there was more than one shooter involved.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: He mimicked Kennedy's movements to show how the President first
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: rocked forward, which Davidson attributes to a shot from the
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: school book depository, and was then thrown violently to the left,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: which he believes indicates the second shooter fired from another direction,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: namely the grassy knoll, and so he definitely believes in
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: a conspiracy. But interesting enough his story is he and
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: I can't get to the actual article because it is
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: behind a paywall shocker, but that I'm not paying for
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: because I give two shits.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: About the Augusta Chronicle.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: But basically what he said is he worked downtown on
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: Acker Street somewhere, and he'd heard about the president coming
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: and he thought the best place to see him from
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: would have been Daily Plazid. So he goes down there
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: about eleven o'clock am and he's looking around. He sets
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: up with a couple of different spots, and then he
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: sees the overpass and he's like, that'd probably be a
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: really great view. So he walks over there, and I
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: guess he talks to Foster and he said, I knew
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: the cop that was up there, and I said, hey, man,
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: you care if I come up there and watch the
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: parade with you? And the cop was like, sure, come
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: on up, old buddy, old pal Robert Davison. So apparently
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: he'd let Davison up there because he knew him, all right,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: that makes sense allegedly, And David said, you know, he
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: stood up there and watched everything, and he thinks there
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: was a conspiracy. It wasn't just Lee Harvey Oswald blah
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah. So interesting, very.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: A lot of shit going on on the overpass right.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I didn't realize there was like two cops
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: kind of book marking east side of it east and west,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting to think, you know, when you're
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: thinking about the coverage that day for Kennedy's motorcade through
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: the middle of Dallas, you want to think that the
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: DPD would have been stretched in as hell to get
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: you know, cops at every intersection in elevated areas all
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: throughout the way. Or did they just care about Daily Plaza.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah, but daily plus it was like
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: not the mean focus of.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: The passes, Like the last thing before they just cruise
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: on out to the luncheon, you know what I mean. Yeah,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: Like that was the very end of the parade, if
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: you will. And then they were gonna as soon as
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: they get through that under the bridge, they're gone. You know,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: they can go back up to normal speed, they can
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: get to the luncheon and you know everything proceeds from there.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 3: But it didn't quite happen that way.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean I'm not trying to like
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: land on the fence here, but you know, I don't
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: want to say that like these officers were positioned to
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: control traffic or something. I think they probably were doing
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: their due to diligence. I think the railroad workers were
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: able to like get the good seats if.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: You will, right, Yeah, I mean they had perfect, perfect billing.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: They were.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: You know, the railroad yard owns that overpass. It's their property.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: They built it in nineteen thirty two. When they put
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: in the railroad and everything else. It wasn't like it
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: was Dallas property. So yeah, very interesting. Yeah, there's a
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff going on around that bridge. You have
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 2: people rushing up to the corner of it right after
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: the shots. You know, you had James tag underneath of
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: it getting hit with a fragment of something.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: Right, right, true, And you have to wonder if that
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: shot bricocheted off the concrete that a lot of people described.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 3: Well, it definitely didn't ricochet.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: Off the turf, that's for sure. Yeah.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: Robert Davidson, Harley's brother, m hm, No, he wasn't what
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: Robert Davidson, Harley's brother, Harley Davidson.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: It's not actually a brother though, No, fou bar Timothy
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: Warren says, and that's a saving brother Ryan quote.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: I believe for sure. He's spelled that the British way.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, much like curb it means like screw it, like
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: everything's everything's fucked.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: All right, folks.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: That's it for this exciting episode that put together the
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: last minute. Thanks to Martin Fitzgerald of The Loncoming Podcast
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: episode four oh five. We thank you for hanging with us.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, we got sixty five people live in the
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: chat right now, so thank you. We hope you learned something. Yes,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: and Joe already has the damn dog, so let's play
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: the music and get the hell out of here.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 3: We love you guys.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: Thanks for stopping in and do the YouTube thing. Get
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: a free trial membership. You might like it, you never know.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 3: Give us a shot to win your hearts in your mind.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: We would appreciate it.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: Look at Ruby, She's just like, get okay, motherfucker.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 3: All right, here we go. Here's your music.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: Ruby. For the record, he said, come to Bourbon Street.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 10: We will be back with a special episode of JAF
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 10: Book Confused next week.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: We're calling the author's corner.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 10: We're gonna be interviewing, hopefully an author of a fiction
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 10: book about JFK. Hopefully if he doesn't, who's on us?
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 10: Like Martin Fitzgerald. Also, there's gonna be an epic.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: The quotation is Jim Garrison's.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: Random Research Ramblers with Rob this weekend. I already know
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: the topic and I'm going ham on a fellow conspiracy researcher.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: You're not gonna want to miss it. Oh, Joe the
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: gloves all. I've had enough. I've had enough of the bullshit,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 2: So tune in for that, and of course next Wednesday
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: we'll be back for members only. I don't know if
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: we'll do a part two to this show. If we're
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: just gonna do something else, we'll see. They definitely won't
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: be a part two the Martin Fitzgerald book Show, that's
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: for sure. Joy I digress.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, hit them like guys, if you can, we appreciate it.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: We're battling the i'llgo here every fucking week and it
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: does help, so thank you.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: And look, don't beat me up for the shorts that
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: we're putting out. I'm not putting them together. I'm not
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: putting them out. It is just to generate some views
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: to the channel, that's all. So don't beat me up
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: too bad. I know the last one was like about
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: Judy Baker and I was like, oh my god, you
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: gotta be kidding me. H. It portrayed her as this
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: young black girl. It's it's funny as shit though, but
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: you gotta love AI. Yeah.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: I like it. I've been enjoying them.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 3: It works, it's working.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 8: You know.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: We are getting some new subscribers from them, so that's
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: all we're using them for.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: So don't beat me up too bad about it. People.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: I know, ay, I know they suck, but they're not
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: you there for. The Skafooz is out there to come
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: here and you know, see the greatness every week. So
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: with that being said, we'll see you next time. Thanks
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: for hanging out with us, and until next time, peace, peace,