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Spirits or Signs? Untangling Spiritual vs. Paranormal Experiences · Let’s Talk, Sister!

0:00
Welcome to Let's Talk Sister, about life, the whole damn thing.
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We're Shel and Krissy. We're sisters, and this is where we talk about life
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as we've lived it, as we're living it, and sometimes where we're still trying to figure it out.
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We'll talk about family, relationships, love, loss, grief, joy,
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work, money, spirituality, aging, our bodies, and probably a whole bunch of
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other stuff we haven't even talked about yet.
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We don't have all the answers, and we're definitely not going to pretend we do.
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We're just two sisters having real conversation and inviting you to be part of them.
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So grab your coffee, your wine, or whatever gets you through the day and come hang out with us.
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Let's talk, sister, about life, the whole damn thing.
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We scripted this because we tend to go off topic and get a little ridiculous at times.
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So we did script part of this and then the tomfoolery will ensue after we read
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the script so listen to the whole thing to get to the good stuff yes please
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so today we are untangling two phrases people like.
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Okay see i can't even read a fucking script,
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today we are untangling two phrases people use like they're interchangeable,
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spiritual experience and paranormal experience And if you've ever said something
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happened and I don't know what it was, this episode is for you.
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Because that's what I would do is call you and say, something happened and I
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don't know what it was. That's not exactly the words I would be saying. No, it is not.
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The minute you tell someone that you've had an experience, half of the room
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goes, that's a sign from the universe.
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And the other half goes, your house is haunted, sister. Same event,
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totally different interpretation.
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Exactly. So let's start with simple working definitions.
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When people say spiritual experience, they usually mean an event that feels
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meaningful, connected, and personally transformative.
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It might involve a sense of presence, guidance, love, or even deep clarity.
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The emphasis is not just on what happened, but on what it meant.
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Paranormal tends to mean something happened that seems to break the rules of
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your own understanding.
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A weird sound with no source, an object moving, a figure seen,
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a voice heard, an impossible coincidence.
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The emphasis is more on the anomaly itself.
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Paranormal is about the event being outside the normal explanation.
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Paranormal. Get it? Paranormal. Yeah, at least at first glance.
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Spiritual is about the event being inside a bigger context of meaning,
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values, and interchange.
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But of course, in real life, a single experience can land in both categories.
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For example, if someone sees a bright light in the room and also feels overwhelming
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peace, that would be both.
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One person can call it an angel.
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Another calls it a hallucination.
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Another calls it a ghost. And yet another calls it a nervous system thing.
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Oh, and if you're a fucking science nerd. Nervous system.
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So maybe the better question is, what lens are you using?
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And what are you trying to understand? Because the same story can be told in multiple languages.
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Years ago, when I was at this retreat, they actually gave us sunglasses to put on.
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And you'd put on these sunglasses and then they gave us another pair of different colored sunglasses
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and a third pair of different and you had like all these glasses on like you
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know barely even like wearing one pair barely hang on your nose and it was just
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because it changed the view it was just like you know an exercise and I was
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like oh the lens you look through is a big
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were any of them rose colored yeah okay yeah exactly,
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so let's talk about hallmarks if you had to make a list that something of what
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makes something feel spiritual what would you say a big one is coherence spiritual
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experiences often come with the feeling of this fits,
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even if it's mysterious it feels a line,
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another hallmark is after effects people report becoming calmer kinder less
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afraid of death more grounded or more,
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motivated to live differently so it's not just a cool story it actually changes
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yeah it makes you want to go to the gym and like be healthy and shit no.
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No. Well, and don't go nasty here, okay? I won't. I won't. Because another hallmark is intimacy.
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Spiritual experiences often feel personal in a way that's hard to translate.
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Not in a narcissistic way, but in the sense of being directly addressed. This mattered for me.
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So funny that you had to preface that with no bumping uglies.
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Well, I've met you and I've met me, so it's probably a good thing.
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Okay, now paranormal. I'd say external weirdness.
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Something physically or observable. Something you might want to capture on video.
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I don't like to capture, you said. I love to capture. I don't mind capturing
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like if it's a picture. I don't want like a live action fucking video.
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Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Because like I went on this little like we went
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to downtown Greeley and we were in like by the by the old grain mill and stuff like that.
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And you want to talk about haunted like it's haunted there.
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And I did take like a Polaroid picture and I see this little boy and his dog
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like underneath the grain mill.
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And it's just it was heartbreaking for me because he was his spirit was trapped
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there and I wanted to cross him over. But it just wasn't the time or the place
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for that because I was literally walking around downtown with the fucking Polaroid
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camera and a voice recorder.
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And and I just I don't it didn't feel like the right time at that time to go
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cross him over. But that's a whole other thing. Yeah, of course. So...
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Paranormal reports often feature disruption. Yes.
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The ordinary world gets interrupted, and the emotions can be intense,
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like dread, shock, fascination.
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It can also be neutral. But fear is common because unpredictability reads as threat to the brain.
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So fear feeds fear, and it kind of manifests like a big snowball,
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and it just rolls down the hill, and the more scared you get,
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the more shit you do in your pants and, you know, stuff like that.
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Which is why I don't watch scary movies because they feel like paranormal to
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me these days with all the things they do.
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And for me, I was like, I know how true things are and I don't want to mess with it.
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No, because watching scary movies like brings the scary movie energy and shock
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and awe to your energy field.
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And that just kind of like makes it just much bigger than it needs to be.
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Like for me, that's what scary movies do.
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So here's where it gets tricky. People assume spiritual equals good and paranormal
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equals scary, which does feel a little bit true for me, but that's not always
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accurate. Yeah, not always.
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Some spiritual experiences are deeply unsettling, like a moment of confronting
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grief or an overwhelming sense of being observed or a life event that breaks you open.
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And some paranormal experiences are just odd, not traumatic.
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So the emotional tone doesn't neatly classify the thing.
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That is correct. Another distinction worth mentioning, spiritual experiences
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often center the inner world, while paranormal experiences often emphasize the outer world.
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Not always, but often. Give an example.
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Well, spiritual, you're walking after a hard conversation and suddenly you feel
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this profound sense of being held by life.
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Nothing supernatural is visible, but internally it's huge.
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Paranormal, you and your friend both hear footsteps in an empty hallway.
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You check, and there's nobody there.
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I'm like, yeah, give it to me. Now, the debate that always shows up,
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are paranormal experiences automatically spiritual?
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Like, if it's real and inexplicable, unexplainable would be that word,
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does it mean it has to be spiritual?
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Not automatically. Something can be unexplained without being spiritually significant,
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and something can be spiritually significant without being explained.
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So, in other words, what you just said is, call it whatever you want. Yeah, basically.
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Like for me, like, like I've had lots of paranormal spiritual experience combination.
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Like if you want to dissect it, but they all just come down to me not listening to my spirit team.
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Yeah, people think that they have to pick a team. Either it's miracles and spirits
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or it's psychology and psychics. Physics.
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But I think there's a third option. Curiosity without instant conclusions.
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You can hold meaning and skepticism at the same time,
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you could say this felt sacred and still say i don't know what caused it let's
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build a quick checklist so listeners can,
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refer back to this not a label not to label your experience forever but to help
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you just sort out your thoughts okay first question are you ready.
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Was the experience primarily internal, external, or both?
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Internal meaning feelings, vision, intuitive knowing.
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External meaning sounds, lights, movement, shared observations.
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Second, was it shared? Did anyone else perceive it or was it independent to you?
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That matters because if it's shared, it doesn't mean it's true because it changes
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what kind of explanations are likely.
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Third, what was the after effect? Did it leave you feeling more connected,
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more compassionate, more grounded?
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Or did it leave you hypervigilant, anxious, or losing sleep?
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That's where the scary movies come in for me, losing sleep.
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I cover mirrors like, nope, no thank you.
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No thank you. Fourth, what story did your mind rush to?
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Angel, ancestor, ghost, demon, glitch, coincidence.
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The first label often tells you more about your worldview than the event itself.
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Fifth, what is the most boring explanation you haven't fully ruled out?
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Not to dismiss you, but because sometimes the nervous system,
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sleep, stress, medication changes, grief, or environment can create really vivid experiences.
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Yep. And we've talked about this. I have a relative that was.
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Oh, I would just say they had a, they coped with different methodologies and
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they had some really vivid experiences.
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Mm-hmm. Yeah.
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And sixth, even if you never solve it, what is the next wise step?
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Like, if it's spiritual, maybe you journal or you reflect.
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If it's paranormal and scary, maybe you improve your lighting,
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check your locks, rule out carbon monoxide, talk to a professional if needed.
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I'm glad you mentioned safety checks, Sissy. anytime someone reports strange
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experiences at home it's genuinely responsible to check practical things first sleep.
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Sleep quality stress levels substances home safety,
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that's not an insult that's care like for me if i have a cinchotini which is
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five shots of vodka not the one,
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i don't sleep that good at night right you know so we try to day drink instead
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of night drink exactly but That's self-care and safety.
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And me, if I have a Cinco-Tini, I am sleeping very well.
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Now, culturally, these things can get messy as well. Some traditions don't separate them at all.
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A dream visitation from a diseased loved one might be fully normal in one culture
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or in one household and labeled paranormal in another. What do you think?
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Connection point. Yeah, me too. So spiritual and paranormal are not purely objective
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buckets. They're shaped by culture, religion, family stories,
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and what you've been taught is possible.
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Let's talk about a common example, sensing a presence. People say,
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ooh, I've got goosebumps, or I felt someone in the room.
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And that could be spiritual, paranormal, psychological, or some mix of all three.
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And honestly, sis, the details matter.
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Was it during grief, during sleep paralysis, during meditation?
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Was it comforting or threatening? Did it come with a message or just a feeling?
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You know what? You made me just segue there. I almost went down a rabbit hole right there.
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I'm going to just mark my point right here. But like if someone,
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you know how people do, you know, like substances to help them,
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you know, learn more about themselves, like that takes you to a whole new place. Right? Yeah.
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If it's during grief, people often report little moments that feel like a contact,
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a smell, a song at the right time, a dream that feels unusually real,
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or in my case, numbers, matching numbers.
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So 1111 or 444 or 4444 or 222, like all the numbers. Yep.
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And even if someone decides, I don't know, that was literal contact,
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it can still be spiritually important.
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You have a lot of skeptics out there, and spirit's going to blow this world
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wide open. I just feel it coming.
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But those experiences can help with closure, with love, with the feeling that
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bonds continue in some form.
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So some people worry that calling it spiritual is just sugarcoating it.
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Like, nope, that's a ghost, not a lesson. And that's fair, but spiritual framing
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doesn't have to deny the weirdness.
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It can be a way of asking, what does this invite me to pay attention to?
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Fear, boundaries, healing, humility.
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Whether the cause is supernatural or not, the question of meaning can still be valid.
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And the opposite is true, too. Sometimes people spiritualize something that
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is actually a red flag, like persistent voices, extreme paranoia,
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and losing touch with reality. that needs help.
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Not a metaphysical label. That shit needs sage. Like, sage that shit. Yes. Okay?
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And if an experience is consistent, distressing, escalating,
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or pulling you into danger, it's wise to talk to a medical or mental health professional.
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Spiritual language should never block someone from getting support.
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So here's a practical way to summarize the differences without making it binary.
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Paranormal is about the nature of the event. That was strange.
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Spiritual is about the function of the event. That mattered.
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I love that. And you can have strange without meaning and meaning without strange.
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Or you can have both at once.
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Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about our experiences. So...
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Tell me, I'm going to just hand it over to you, paranormal and spiritual.
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Give us some examples of your life. Okay. Well, I got a few,
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but I'll kind of, I'll keep it down a little bit.
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Like, I'll narrow it down. So when I was going through a divorce with my first
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husband, I was just super, super distraught.
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And I tried my best to stay strong in front of my kids.
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And I got to this point where it was right before our divorce was finalized.
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I never told you this, but I filed for divorce on Halloween,
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and it was finalized on Valentine's Day. That's great. I fucking love it.
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But anyways, I digress. So I get the kids in bed.
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They're young. Jake was only two, which means Jesse is six and Kay was eight.
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And I get them put to bed, and I go to bed, and I lay down, and I just lose
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it. I'm just sobbing. I'm like, I'm such a failure. I suck at life.
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These kids deserve better, blah, blah, blah.
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And then I just, I prayed and I was like, Lord, please, please,
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please, please, Lord, help me through this. Get me through this.
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I need peace.
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And I closed my eyes and I pulled my covers like way up over my head.
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And I'm just like, I'm crying because I don't want my kids to hear me.
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So I'm crying under the blankets. I'm muffling my noises, you know. And then I feel...
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Somebody sit on the foot of my bed like and I was like what is that and then
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they just start rubbing my leg,
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oh and I was just I didn't feel scared I wasn't scared at all and I knew like
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without a shadow of a doubt because I fell asleep that was the best night of sleep I had had in months,
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and I slept and I woke up and I was like thank you big brother because I know
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without a shadow of a doubt, it was Jay.
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I know it. I love that. And so that for me was very spiritual and it kind of
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started cracking open the, the,
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the spiritual code for me and the, or the spiritual box, you know,
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and then I've been going through a lot of, you know, life changes.
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My kids are moving out and, you know, stuff like that. And, and I don't listen
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to my spirit team because we all have a spirit team and I don't listen,
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you know, we all, you can ask my parents, I don't listen.
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But I landed and I were in bed one night and we hear this like,
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I thought it was a dying raccoon, like for lack of a better or something.
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If we lived in the South, I probably would have thought it was a possum. I don't know.
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But it was weird. Like it was so weird. And I was like, like,
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like we got up out of bed. He grabbed a pistol. Like we combed the entire house.
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We we went down to the basement because I was like, it's coming from underneath the deck.
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And he goes down there with the pistol and we're looking and we open the door
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and I'm immediately drawn to under the deck and I was like oh hell no.
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Like, I didn't see, I didn't see anything, but I felt something.
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And I was like, okay, fuck that shit. So we go back upstairs and he's like,
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why are you rushing me? Why are you rushing me? I'm like, get upstairs. We got to pray.
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And so we prayed and I prayed hard. And I was like, Lord, I know,
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I know that I haven't been paying attention.
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Please don't take it out on me and my family.
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Like, please surround us with your love and light and your grace and all that is good.
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Bring in Archangel Michael to protect my home and extend it to my extended family, clear everywhere.
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And then again, we slept, we slept hard and we slept good. And I was just like,
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oh, and then like, I've had other experiences like that too,
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but it's just about paying attention, you know? For sure.
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So how about you? Oh my gosh. I've got, I have so many, I'm trying to make a
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list of just a few of them so I don't, you know, go all over the place.
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So my very first experience with paranormal was my uncle Larry and my aunt Carla had a house in,
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papillion nebraska and papaya papillion nebraska i don't know where it is but
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we were there and we're playing cards and my uncle's like did you see that and
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i was like did i see what and he's like,
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there's a spirit and i was like i'm scared and i was young and i was i was freaked
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out i was like okay i'm just officially scared i because i had only watched
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one scary movie as a child a teenager freddy krueger
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oh that was my first scary movie no thank you.
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I mean now it's probably cheesy as all hell but no forever change i was like
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never again you know i was like crazy and then let's see i'll give you a couple
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more so right when tasha passed,
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some of you know my owl story she said keep a white owl by your back door i
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heard owls hooting all the time, like,
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middle of the night, you know, or like right at 11.11 or 1.11 in the daytime,
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I'd hear an owl. And I was like, what?
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They're supposed to be sleeping. I know. The house that I lived in,
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the condo, there was an owl in my backyard. And I was like, it was divine.
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Because that's where you lived right after Tasha passed, right?
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Yeah, that's exactly where I moved to.
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And then we'll go to this one later, but right before my mother-in-law...
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Paul's mom passed.
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I was going to go talk to him about, hey, I think I'm going to find my own place.
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You know, I'm not really happy here. I was trying to be an adult about it.
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And we needed to work through some stuff. And I literally felt a hand on my shoulder.
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Like, I went to stand up and it pushed me down.
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And it was loving. Like, it wasn't forceful. But it was like,
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I was like, it was undeniable. And that was absolutely Pat. She told me not to go talk to him.
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And she passed away, like, the next day. Yeah. Yeah.
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So it was like, OK, it just there was like she knew the timing was right.
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Right. Right. So lights come on all the time. Still today, TV's TV turns on,
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all the time in this house, in every house I've ever lived in.
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I see angel numbers all the time.
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Different serendipities just happen. Like, it's crazy what lines up for me.
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It's just I notice it and it's now expected that things are going to line up.
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So I'm never surprised by serendipity. And then my most scary event was I was
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a single mom living in a condo with my Nate and Tasha, and they were at their dad's house.
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And I needed to make a decision about taking a job in Utah. I was going to go
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run a branch office there.
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And i had went to utah toured it and i got this sense nobody said this but i
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got the sense that as a christian woman moving to a different culture that.
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I wasn't going to get the help i needed to run a business this was a long time
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ago many many years ago things have changed since then
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but i just you know our our different spiritual views didn't line up and i just
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what i gave my notice actually for both my job and my apartment and my condo.
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And that night that I gave my notice, I literally had this,
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I can't even explain it. I was levitating out of my bed and there was this deep
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breathing through me and other breathing through me in a different direction.
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So it was like one was going down, one was going up and I just could hear this like.
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You know, like this breathing in and out and I couldn't speak and the lights
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were off. My house was dark and my neighbors were like, there was a bright light
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coming out of your house. We couldn't really explain it.
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And they they knocked on the door and during that same moment i couldn't speak
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so it's in my mind i was like okay jesus i need you jesus help me jesus you
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know i was like just praying to god you know like
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i need help right now this is not normal or okay and at the moment they knocked
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the light that they saw went off they thought i turned off a light okay and
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i was no longer levitating and i I was, my house was just calm.
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And so I can't really explain it, but it absolutely happened. Yeah.
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So, and it's almost like, I felt like when I woke up that the devil and God
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were fighting over my soul. Mm-hmm.
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Is what it felt like. Yeah. And I got to make my decision without words,
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but in claiming in my heart what I believe. Mm-hmm. And that's what,
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and the neighbors knocking. Divine timing, right? Yeah. Also believers,
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you know. They're like, nope, she stays here.
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Right. Exactly. Yeah. So that was my craziest event.
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Yeah. And I've had some others. I just have to. I'm pretty sure I've seen a
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UFO in my lifetime. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I believe. Yeah. I believe.
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Yeah. Sasquatch, aliens, mermaids. Yep. Yep.
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I just know that there is more is my best way to explain it.
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And that more can look different for you, different for me. I'm also of the
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belief that if I grew up in the Middle East, I would believe Middle Eastern
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views and I would have Middle Eastern ways. Right?
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And if they were dropped in the middle of Nebraska with our family,
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they would believe like I believe. Absolutely. So that's just, yeah. No door is closed.
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So before we wrap, I just want to offer listeners a gentle prompt.
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If you've had an experience that you can't explain, instead of arguing,
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well, first of all, we want to know what it is. So please write us.
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Yeah, please. Please share. Hello at Let's Talk Sister.com. But if you've had
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an experience you can't explain, instead of arguing with yourself about what
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it is, try asking two questions.
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One, what do you know for sure happened? And...
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Two, what story am I telling? And three, how quickly can I tell the sisters about this? Yeah.
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And if you want a third question or a fourth question, what do I need right now?
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Do you need grounding, reassurance, community, or silence?
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Sometimes the next step isn't always solving the mystery, it's caring for the
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person who had the mystery. That's a good place to land. Not everything needs a verdict. Exactly.
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And if you're listening and you've been holding on to a story you're afraid
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to tell because you don't want it to sound weird, you're not alone.
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Lots of people have these experiences, whether you call them spiritual,
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paranormal, psychological, or something else entirely.
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Your feelings about it are real and your curiosity is allowed.
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Absolutely. And like we said earlier, Kristen didn't even know about my Utah
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event, moving to Utah until like a week ago.
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I just know it happened. And it was so long ago that unless we had this conversation,
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so we want to know what's happened to you.
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So next time we can dig into specific common experiences.
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So like dream visitation, synchronicities, sleep paralysis, and why they get
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interpreted so differently.
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But we also would love your input. So tell us what's happened in your life.
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Please. And until then, stay grounded, stay curious. And if something strange
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happens, remember, you can explore it without rushing to label it.
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And that's it for this episode of Let's Talk, Sister, about life, the whole damn thing.
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We're just two sisters sharing life as we've lived it, as we are living it,
26:49
and sometimes as we're still trying to figure the hell out.
26:52
But this isn't just our conversation. We want you in it, too.
26:56
Share your stories with us. Tell us what you're going through.
26:59
Ask us questions or give us something you think sisters need to talk about.
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Come join us at letstalksister.com. Until next time, keep showing up,
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keep being real, and remember, whatever you're walking through,
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you don't have to pretend it's perfect. Let's talk, sister.