Latest / Self-Schooled / Best Humaning: Understanding the Child Behind the Behavior with Nikki Magliaro

Transcript

Best Humaning: Understanding the Child Behind the Behavior with Nikki Magliaro · Self-Schooled

• Heather DiNino (she/they): Welcome to Self-Schooled, a podcast where we explore how to understand our children and ourselves more clearly. I'm Heather, parent, educator, and micro school founder. And every week we talk to someone who gives us a different lens for understanding what it means to be human and parent other humans. Because the more we understand, the more connected we feel to the people who matter most. And the more confidently we can parent and find our family's own path. This is the education that actually matters. Let's dive in together. Hi everyone. We are so thrilled to welcome Nikki to the podcast today. Nikki Magliaro is a licensed mental health counselor and the co-founder of Puzzle Pieces, which is right here in Quincy Mass, so local to me, lucky me. Puzzle Pieces is a multidisciplinary pediatric practice. She spent her career supporting children and families, and she is especially passionate about helping parents. Better understand their children, strengthen their connection, and feel more confident navigating the everyday challenges of parenting, of which there are many. Can you see why she's so perfect for this podcast, right? Like textbook. Nikki Magliaro: Uh-huh. Heather DiNino (she/they): Nikki's also a DIR floor time expert training leader, which we will talk more about because I'm so excited to have her expertise there. And perhaps most importantly, a mom of two young children. So Nikki. Gets it. She brings both the personal and the clinical perspective to the conversation. So welcome, Nikki. I'm so glad to have you here today. Nikki Magliaro: Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be on. Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah, I'm so excited anytime I get the chance to talk to you So how long has puzzle pieces been around and kind of like what got you to where you are? Nikki Magliaro: So I founded Puzzle Pieces with another licensed mental health counselor, Megan Selchin. it'll be 13 years this fall that we've been around. Quincy and we've just like we we didn't plan to be as big as we are when we started, but I think that the community really told us we need this here. and so we've just kind of followed the the needs of what families and kids are asking for in the community and we've grown a ton since we founded in 2013. Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah, so when you and Megan first founded, what was your original like what was your first idea? Like what were you like, let's do this first? Nikki Magliaro: Yeah. So Megan and I met working in early intervention, which is such a beautiful program here in Massachusetts. It's birth to three, it's home-based, it's all of these lovely family-centered services, transdisciplinary, so mental health clinicians, speech therapists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, music therapists. But when the child has their third birthday, they're they're no longer eligible for early intervention. So to us it felt like such an arbitrary date in that family's journey. with whatever was going on for them, that then they lost that family-centered support. and of course there are other supports, there's outpatient supports, there's school supports, but what was really missing was someone to kind of provide that wraparound like, let's talk to the parents, let's hear what you need, let's meet you where you're at, let's support you as parents. And then of course get your child whatever else they need, the mental health support, the speech, the OT. So So that was really our our biggest like no one's doing this, like let's do this, we can do this. and and it was much needed and we've had families that have been with us the you know, ever since the whole thirteen years. Heather DiNino (she/they): And then how did that grow over the years to what you are now? Or maybe talk a little bit about like what you are now, like all the services that you have to offer and kind of how that's grown. Nikki Magliaro: Yeah, so what Puzzle Pieces is today is we function as an outpatient therapy practice. We provide mental health services for children and for their parents. we provide speech therapy, occupational therapy. We are also an accredited provider of a therapy called DIR floor time, which is an evidence-based approach for supporting children on the autism spectrum and other neurodiversity. We also provide small groups. we provide Free community-based programming for parents monthly, where we kind of do free parent seminars, all kinds of other fun things that we do throughout the year. And in the fall, we do a spectacular, which is like a Halloween event for families just to come and be in an inclusive environment. So that is certainly not what we envisioned. We we started as just men, Megan and I are both mental health clinicians, and we said, let's do this family-centered work. But what we found was families were going, you know, to To this place for one service, to this place for another, and it was really hard for those providers to communicate with one another. And we said, well, if we put all of these services under one roof, then we can collaborate, we can coordinate care, and just make sure that the family just make it easier on what is not a easy parenting journey for the family. Heather DiNino (she/they): Are you able to meet with the family and talk about different things that you're seeing from different perspectives? Nikki Magliaro: Yes, we we are, and that's the beauty of having us all be under, you know, one organization and collaborating. Our providers are able to collaborate and say like, hey, I'm using this to really help regulate this child, or you know, the mental health clinician on the case might say, hey, you know, this is going on for the family, this would be helpful for you to know, even though you're the speech therapist. And then yeah, we also can then bring all the providers together with the family if that's something that they want to do and talk about the family's concerns. You know, talk about what their goals are for their child and just really be f fully collaborative. Heather DiNino (she/they): You get the the whole child picture instead of these little Nikki Magliaro: Yes. Heather DiNino (she/they): like no pun intended, but y instead of like little puzzle pieces like that are separate, you get them together, Nikki Magliaro: Yeah. Heather DiNino (she/they): right? So that's really awesome. Nikki Magliaro: Yeah, we are putting the pieces together. That's really the intention behind our name too, is we wanted to put these pieces together for families so that they're not feeling like, you know, they they have this scattered puzzle on the floor of like, okay, well, the speech is telling me this, OT is telling me this, Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah. Nikki Magliaro: school is telling me this. And we we also do provide a lot of collaboration with the school team. They're part of our team. So our providers Heather DiNino (she/they): You know. Nikki Magliaro: are always reaching out to them, you know, getting on the same page with goals. attending IEP meetings or whatever the team meeting is if they're if the child is on a a plan at school as well. Heather DiNino (she/they): I think families need more support, not just the kids, right? Nikki Magliaro: And and that's what it's all about. And I think you know, local to this area, we're we're we're in a time where most families have two working parents and it's like well how much are we expected to accomplish between the hour of five and seven PM? You know, right? That's also not a great time for learning. So another thing that we do is we provide community-based services. So we'll go see kids, you know, in their daycare. If they're in a private school setting, we'll go see them there and like let's provide their services. services while they're you know alert and regulated and and ready to learn. and then also provide that that consultation with the parent so the parent can still feel like part of the team. So then that way maybe when parents are done with work, you know, they can connect with their child, you know, in enjoy that after school time and not have to rush to bring them to therapy. Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah, and then not get to see them. Nikki Magliaro: Yeah. Heather DiNino (she/they): You know, like you don't want your only time with your kid to be in the car, although the car is some of the best conversations, I think, but Nikki Magliaro: Sure. Ye totally. Heather DiNino (she/they): so you mentioned earlier that you provide therapeutic support for the kids and for the parents. So do do parents come to see you for mental health support for therapy? Nikki Magliaro: Yeah, parents do come to see us. So we specialize in specifically working with parents around their parenting. so it can be v incredibly isolating and like you mentioned, can feel like a burden and it can also just feel like there's n the the parenting book wasn't written for this kid that I'm parenting. And often outcomes are best for children when their parents are able to be better aligned with. You know what works for my child, how do I understand my child? How do I connect with my child even? And so often some of our most impactful work that we do here is work with the caregivers without the child present in that. And there are some families that we work with. We we haven't even met the child, we don't see the child, we just work with the caregiver. and and that's data driven as well, too, especially for kids that are neurodiverse, sometimes imparting the change through. that parent-child relationship can be the most impactful. Heather DiNino (she/they): Absolutely. I mean, I see that in my work as well for sure. Nikki Magliaro: and it's and it's totally normal to feel that way too. Listen, I'm the person providing this kind of support for parents and I have this very same thoughts about parenting my own children. I'm like, was that wrong? Was that right? You know? and Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah. Yeah. Nikki Magliaro: it can be so helpful just to have a sounding board, someone to go to, Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah. Nikki Magliaro: you know, to to talk through like this happened, this is how it unfolded, like like let's look into that and figure out what was behind that and Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah. Nikki Magliaro: you know, just to help parents feel more supported and less isolated in their journey. Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah. That's just that's invaluable. I'm I'm so glad to hear that you're supporting really the whole family, right? So you mentioned DIR floor time. Can you like for someone who's never even heard that term before, can you tell a little bit about what Nikki Magliaro: Yeah. Heather DiNino (she/they): that is? Nikki Magliaro: Of course. I love talking about DIR floor time. So DIR floor time is an evidenced-based therapeutic approach for supporting kids on the autism spectrum. The D stands for developmental, the I stands for individual differences, and the R stands for relationship-based. So those are kind of just like what it's about. So DIR looks at what we know about how humans develop. There are stages that we go through, and often when a child has a neurodiversity or an autism spectrum disorder, there they go through these developmental stages, but there are capacities that they don't really fully strengthen that then they can have splinter skills that they you know develop along the line. So we look at behavior through this developmental lens. So when a child is happy. A behavior that's perhaps problematic or causing them stress or causing the family stress, let's look at their development and let's look at their individual differences. So things like their sensory differences, their processing differences, their learning differences, and let's consider all these things and try to figure out what it is about that child's profile that's causing them to have challenges in whatever domain. And often when we get very curious about what's going on, we can look at strengthening. that underlying capacity that perhaps has some weaknesses and it can help the child do better in whatever area they're having problems with. Heather DiNino (she/they): Okay, so you're talking about kind of the the swimming upstream model, right? Of like instead of Nikki Magliaro: Mm-hmm. Heather DiNino (she/they): looking at what is presenting and trying to just like fix that or change that, you're actually like getting curious about what's coming before that. Like why why is that kiddo presenting that way? Because let's take a behavior of hitting that there could be ten kids that are all hitting. For ten different reasons, right? Nikki Magliaro: Mm. Heather DiNino (she/they): Okay, so what might a DIR floor time session look like? Nikki Magliaro: Yes, so every DIR floor time session is gonna look totally different and it's based on what that child's bringing to you. And really every floor time session can look different based on every child and like what they bring that day. So it is a child-led play based for younger kids, but then certainly DIR floor time is for all individuals. It can be used with really little itty bitty babies, it can be used with tweens, with teens, with young adults, with a with adults. It supports individuals throughout their lifespan. So what it might look like is just really meeting that individual at where they're at. So if we're thinking of a younger child who is working on maybe some of those core capacities like being self-regulated. That's the the first one, regulation. It might look like Tailoring the environment to help them regulate. So dimming the lights, maybe making not a lot of noise, not a lot of movement, joining them in whatever they're interested in. So if a child is interested in swinging, then maybe just kind of being with them while they're swinging. It might look like for an older child who maybe has a special interest of Marvel comics, talking to them about their Marvel comics, showing them that you hear them and you're meeting them. Where they're at, and then maybe using their Marvel comics to help them, you know, solve other problems or see the perspectives of others or whatever capacity they're working at. So the beauty of it is that it is very fun and enjoyable for children. Individuals who are certified in DIR floor time are awesome at finding that just right challenge for the child where it's fun, it's engaging, it's doing what they want to do, but we're just pushing them kind of like right at the Edge of their development in working on whatever their developmental capacity is that maybe they need a little strength in. Heather DiNino (she/they): Okay. And you said and first of all you can tell like your you your energy changes when you talk about DIR floor time. Like you are glowing, you are like into it. This is so clearly like your area of expertise, your zone of genius, Nikki Magliaro: Mm-hmm. Heather DiNino (she/they): which I think is so important in finding in people. So I I love that. Nikki Magliaro: I love that term. I've never heard Zone of Genius and I am gonna take that in my pocket and take it with me. to to add to that explanation, like what I love the most about this and what my personal feeling. Favorite thing is about floor time is that it's also a family-driven model. So our goal is not only for me as the therapist to be providing this therapy, I want the parents in on it. So I want parents in on my sessions. I want to be teaching parents these strategies because we all learn best through who we have, that effective attachment relationship with. So when we're talking about, you know, younger children is kind of my cup of tea, that's my specialty. I really want caregivers to understand their child. I want them to learn how to connect with their child. I want them to learn what their child is meaning. I think a long time ago when I was starting, when I was just training in floor time, I had a parent ask me one time, you know, is my child happy? Like, are they happy? And I'm like, don't ask me. Like, I don't know your child. And it really made me think about like they the they need the confidence in helping to understand. And of course, this was a very happy child. That expressed a lot of joy. and I could feel that in our work, and I was like, I need this parent to feel confident in that like this it all means your child is happy and like here's how you can know that and here's how you can feel that joy with your child. So that's the thing that I love most about doing floor time is helping parents build those connections with their kids and feel like they can speak the same language as their child, whether they they have a kid who's speaking verbally or a kid who's who's, you know, kind of communicating in other ways. Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah, and it sounds like you're really translating that for parents. I mean, we have the privilege of having gone to school to learn a lot of these things, and you and I have both spent a lot of our professional career like fine-tuning these things, right? But parents Nikki Magliaro: Mm-hmm. Heather DiNino (she/they): don't always come with that expertise and y they all want to know their kid, but when you have a kid who might show joy. differently or show love differently or connect in different ways. So you mentioned and I know younger kids you said are your cup of tea, but DIR floor time could be for all ages. Nikki Magliaro: Yeah, it is for all ages and stages and there's a lot of evidence based in even working using this methodology with dementia patients. so it it's helpful for for a lot of different populations. but the majority of the evidence based is for kids on the autism spectrum. Heather DiNino (she/they): You mentioned that DIR floor time is often for kids that have been di or folks that have been diagnosed on the autism spectrum. But does it have to be or could it be like do you need that diagnosis to access DIR floor time? Nikki Magliaro: No, so you certainly don't need that that diagnosis to access DIR floor time. That's what like the the wealth of ev evidence bases around that and actually, originally when it was founded by Dr. Stanley Greenspan, this is back in the I don't I'm gonna misquote this, I'm gonna say probably the seventies. it was originally researched on kids who were at risk who came from you know, they had a lot of risk factors in their life with trauma and early adversity. so there's a a a wealth of knowledge for children who have experienced early traumas, it being applicable to using to treating them as well. and and I have used it really with with like any kid and kind of at puzzle pieces, it's really our philosophy for approaching, you know, whatever other modality that we may also use, right? And I kind of find it like it's just like best humaning, right? Like we wanna be curious about what another person is bringing, we wanna be curious about someone's individual differences, right? And in like how they support the world. and we have this term we use like most generous interpretation of someone's behavior, right? And like getting curious about it. And if you kind of navigate the world in that way, you know, you're you're kind of a better human for it. So, yes, it it is an approach that Heather DiNino (she/they): That's shooting. Nikki Magliaro: we Heather DiNino (she/they): So do you use this best humaning practice at home with your own kids or with your partner or with like your friendships? Right? In some ways, isn't what we do like Nikki Magliaro: Yeah, I certainly try. Yeah, right. You know, somet sometimes when you when you go home you take that therapist hat right right off. I don't know if my husband would say that I always am using this best humaning approach with him, but I do what I can and certainly it is so helpful to to think about w with kids and you know when they do something or even yourself, even that having that internal reflection with yourself and being like, you know, I was Heather DiNino (she/they): gosh. Nikki Magliaro: not the best parent in that moment and then thinking about well what else was going on for me there and like giving yourself that piece of forgiveness and perhaps learning from it if it's something that you want to change next time. Heather DiNino (she/they): Yeah, we all need best humaning on ourselves for sure. Yeah. Nikki Magliaro: Yeah, yeah. Heather DiNino (she/they): So Nikki, we're gonna wrap up soon, but I wanna make sure that you get a chance to just explain a little bit about the workshop calls that you do. So I I don't know that that's what they're actually called, but like I get them in my email inbox. I often want to go to them, right? Nikki Magliaro: Yeah. Heather DiNino (she/they): They're like these Parent, they're free, you can register online. So, like no matter where anybody's listening from, they could register. Can you talk a little bit about them? Nikki Magliaro: Yeah, definitely. So Part of our mission at Puzzle Pieces is to be able to make this lens, this outlook of parenting or supporting your child through what you know whatever journey you're on accessible to all. So we have been doing monthly parent seminars that are open to the community, so you don't have to be a client of Puzzle Pieces. They're all virtual, so you also can join from anywhere. And they're also recorded. So if you can't make them live, if you register for the event, you'll get sent a link to the recording. so we do these monthly just around we kind of build our schedule with just based on like what we're hearing from parents. I I facilitate a lot of them, as does my co-founder Megan. And then we also bring in other guest speakers from our team and from people in our community. so I think that let's see, this month and a couple weeks, I'm doing ones on how to talk to your kids so they really listen and diving deep into when kids aren't listening to you, why. That's happening and why punishment and other methods of behavior correction don't always work and get to the root cause. we have one, we've had some really great ones. We have a member of our team who's a problematic gaming specialist who loves talking about gaming, what it does for kids, screen time, and all of those things. She's doing our our parent event in December. So I encourage anyone listening to certainly join us for those. Heather DiNino (she/they): th I mean, talk about accessible, right? It's virtual, recorded, like by licensed mental health counselors and you know, folks that are experts in their area. I'm gonna need to have the gaming person on the podcast for sure. That's an area I'm super interested in. Nikki Magliaro: Yeah, and yes, yeah, she is a wealth of knowledge and has just like I've learned so much. Heather DiNino (she/they): that's so cool. And I mean, there are so many people at Puzzle Pieces I'd love to have on the podcast. You just have such an incredible team of experts and just like good humans. Like really good. You you can tell you're all doing the best humaning. Like you're all, you know, you Nikki Magliaro: Yeah, yeah. Heather DiNino (she/they): are all a joy to be around. You can tell you really love what you're doing, which is so important in this work. It's a pretty high burnout field. So Nikki Magliaro: It is, yeah. Heather DiNino (she/they): It's just, it's so awesome. I'm really appreciative of your time. So I'll put all the links in the show notes and in the description so that folks can easily access signing up for those seminars and getting in touch with Nikki in whatever way works for them. Nikki, thank you so much for your time today. It was awesome having you on. Nikki Magliaro: Thank you so much for having me. This is a pleasure.