Latest / Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast / Darling Bish Hour: SLOMW S5: Part Two

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Darling Bish Hour: SLOMW S5: Part Two · Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What is Dakota's deal?
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: That was such an evil laugh.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: But like, what is his?
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know you've got a lot written there,
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: but if I could tee you up, he is evil.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Like when you see the videos that have been exposed
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: and you hear him talking about the videos that he
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: has against her and you know where he's coming from now,
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: now that we've seen season five and this isn't We've
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: seen nothing like so much has gone on. We have
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: no idea how bad it actually got. Right. What is
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: his deal? What was he addicted to? I don't remember
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: what his drug or alcohol choice was. But do you remember?
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I don't remember.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: But when I met, he was sober. He didn't drink.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Allegedly.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Allegedly.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Because here I'm going to tell you, sobriety is seen
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: in our behaviors. I'm just going to be very honest
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: about that. You can tell when someone's sober. And when
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: they're just saying that they're sober, because part of like
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: when you're sober, you're not supposed to get into a
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: relationship for a year. And this is the reason why,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: because it's so common for people to replace their substance abuse. So, yeah,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I just looked this up. Dakota Mortensen from The Secret
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Life has spoken openly about his past struggle with opioid
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: and fentanyl addiction.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, damn.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: And that's very serious, which included a year long battle
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: and multiple relapses. So the start of his addiction, he
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: experienced with pain pills beginning at 17 after sports injury, which,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: by the way, this is a tale as old as
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: time in terms of how people get addicted. All people,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: they get an injury, they go to a doctor, doctor
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: prescribed something. They're not monitored. Boom. And then addiction. Yeah.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: It's also a good excuse people can use, to be
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: honest with you.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: They weren't doing it recreationally or something.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And so I think that what I
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: have noticed from working in inpatient rehabilitation, and I only
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: worked with men, I was the antisocial whisperer. That's who
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I was because of how I grew up. I grew
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: up having to appease a sociopath. And so that made
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: me really good at doing it professionally. And not that
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I appeased them, but it led me people are like,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: how do you deal with these people? I'm like, well,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I grew up with my dad. So I am well
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: practiced in letting a sociopath know you're not going to
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: manipulate me. I'm not falling for this. This is what
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: you're here to do. You focus on you. And so
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: as the result of that, I got a lot of
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: threats and had a chair thrown at me and all
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: these other things. Because when you oh, yeah, I've been
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I've really I've been in the trenches, certainly, and I've
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: almost been hurt quite a few times by people who
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: don't want to. They don't want to change. And when
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: someone is unable to manipulate you, that's where you're going
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: to see. So, for example, when Dakota learned that he
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: could no longer manipulate, those behaviors tell you who that
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: person really is.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Everything before it was a mask. And then when you say, nope,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: you can't get to me, you're not manipulating me, you
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: can't control me, that is when you start to see
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: the true person come out. And what happens is for
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: some people who use substances, a lot of people in
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: recovery and in active addiction are wonderful human beings with
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: a terrible disease. But there are a faction of people
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: who the substance use is more indicative of antisocial personality traits.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: The addiction is almost secondary to their psychopathology, if that
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: makes sense. I don't know the statistics. In my personal experiences,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I would say it's certainly not the majority, but it
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: does happen where it's like, oh, well, not everyone who
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: gets sober is actually a great person. Sometimes people get
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: sober and then you're like, oh, you have a lot
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: of psychopathology, a lot of abusive qualities and characteristics and
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: all these different things. Because my thought is that being
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: team kids, I believe that she was reacting. And this
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: is the distinction in terms of reactive abuse. This is
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: an important distinction. True abuse is rooted in an ongoing
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: pattern of power and control. A reaction driven by stress, exhaustion,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: self-protection is a defense mechanism. It's not an act of aggression. However,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: What happens when we stay in these relationships, it's like,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: you know how you hang around garbage, you start to stink?
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: That's the saying? Yeah.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I believe it was spoken by Caroline Manzo.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, Caroline Manzo. You hang around garbage, you start to stink. Yeah,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I miss Caroline. What I mean by this, and I'm
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: going to give an example that I know people aren't
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: going to like this, but when they went to Jesse's
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: new house and Taylor was talking to Michaela and Macy.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: What I watched Taylor do was Darvo on them. Wow.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Wow. She literally did the denying the reverse. Like, no,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: you're a bitch. And this is why people don't like you, Michaela.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: And you're this and you're that. And I'm the victim here. Right.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: it starts to impact how we communicate with other people
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: and engage with others. So because Taylor experienced this and
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: has been not able to extricate herself from it, it
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: is starting to impact her behaviors towards others. And then
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: that's where she's got to learn to do things differently.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Because even, let's say this was reactive abuse, Her child
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: got hurt. This can't happen anymore. If this was reactive
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: abuse or if these events happen, she's still got to
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: do better for herself and her kids, period, end of sentence.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: And how many other events happened that we don't know about?
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, sure. I would guarantee... Hundreds, if I'm being conservative,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I would guarantee hundreds, which is very sad. I think
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: that she has been through a lot, but now she's
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: to the point where you have to own your role.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: And then going forward, you've got to do this different. Otherwise,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: you're doing the same thing that he's doing to people
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: that you're supposed to love.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: And that that's the hardest pill, I think, sometimes for
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: survivors to swallow is the ways that they've crossed the
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: line from victim to to perpetrator because of being in
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: that unhealthy situation for so long wow that's hard.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: You know i'm surprised that she's not in jail and
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: someone's dead out of the two of them to be
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: honest with you that he's not in jail or she's
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: not in jail and someone's dead is what i meant
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: to say um Because that's how heightened and scary the
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: situation is with them. And just like you said, when
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: he's doing Darvo, when he's like Darvo-ing on her, that's
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: when those situations get physical. She can't handle it. And
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: she goes at him, right? Because now she's a fighter
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: and that's how she's trying to deal with it. And
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: so how has she been a mother this whole time
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: is like what I want to know.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: She's... That's, you know, that's the thing when it comes
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: to any sort of addiction. OK, whether it's love addiction,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: sex addiction, substance abuse, the addiction becomes the primary driver.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Your best friend, the love of your life, all of
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: those things. And so that's also a hard pill for
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: people to swallow when they become sober or get out
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: of these relationships. is it's hard for them to understand
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: the ways that they've let down other people around them
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: because they were so focused on this addictive behavior. It's
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: the hardest thing I've seen from parents that I've helped.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: People who are wonderful humans, you can't be a good
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: parent when you're in this sort of relationship. When you're
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: not able to keep your children safe, when you're not
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: able to keep yourself safe because you're so triggered, it
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: doesn't serve her. It doesn't serve them. And so that
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: is another really tough thing. She's got to accept the
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: ways that she let her kids down, irrespective of Dakota.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: And I think she has a hard time doing that.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: And that's my frustration.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: The last scene when she's calling the girls and they're
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: sitting on the couch before they cut production. And she's like,
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: I'm not coming today. He's trying to ruin my life.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: And he called CPS.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Right. So. CPS is Child Protective Services. And being a
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: therapist for many decades, CPS is there to protect children,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: but depending on what city you live in and, again,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: the institutional ways we get let down, unfortunately, a lot
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: of times things slip through the cracks. And I'm going
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: to be honest. I think if a child is being hurt,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: I don't care who it is. I think reporting it
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: is appropriate, if I'm being honest. Now, I'm not saying...
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: for Dakota to do that. But because we can't forget
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: about these kids and all of this, like if Dakota
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: and Taylor aren't able to extricate themselves, someone's got to
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: look out for those kids.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: So I think it's really insane that he would do that.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: And I think it's more about power and control. But
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: the behavior itself, I'm like, well, someone's got to be
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: looking after those kids and advocating for them. So I
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: think the report isn't problematic, but it's the fact that
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: he did it and why he did it is problematic.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And again, indicative of narcissistic abuse.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: And he is the one who's pointing the finger at
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: her that it's all her problem. Remember at Jesse's new
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: house in the kitchen after she stormed out, Taylor left.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: He said, I can't believe you guys would have this
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: conversation with her knowing how unhealthy she is.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: And it's like, here's the thing. Here's what like made
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: me side-eye that. Taylor's emotional stability is not anyone else's problem,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: but Taylor. And so Dakota saying that it's like they're
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: codependent on each other because I fully believe that this
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: is like a love addiction situation for Taylor. But it
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: is very indicative of that. So it's like, so you
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: ruined her life because she was finally done But you
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: want her friends to not trigger her. Let me be clear.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I have complex PTSD. My triggers are only my responsibility.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: There are nobody else's responsibility. It is nobody else's fault,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: problem or responsibility. And that, I think, again, is what
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to say with Taylor, where it's like, no, man,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: she's got to be accountable for that. And by the way,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: his concern was so fake. Because it's like, so you're
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: going to say that to them and then you're going
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: to actively destroy her life? Well, you didn't give a
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: shit about that.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Come on. Also, like, you're the reason. I mean, obviously
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: she has to take ownership for herself, but you're the
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: exact reason why she's not in a good place and
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: hasn't been for so long. And then for him to
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: be picking up the camera and showing how, you know,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: dysfunctional and abusive she is when, in fact, you're on
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: the other side, you know, very much provoking the situation.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: And then for him to call CPS. And again, it's
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: putting it all on her. It's putting it all on her.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: But remember, when you're confronting people like this, that's the
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: reason for the first letter in the acronym is deny.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: They cannot accept. that they have done anything wrong. That's
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: indicative of severe narcissism.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Did you see the video when the body cam came
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: up to their house and it was them at the
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: door and he was.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Like, Taylor, look at Taylor.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Taylor, don't.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Taylor.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: And she was like, you know, and she practically hit
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: him right there in front of the cops. So she
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: looks like she's the crazy one, right?
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: And he's talking to the cops like, I don't know, man.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: And I just, Taylor, she's crazy.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Like, and then talking about institutional DARVO, the response of
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: officers also matters. And do they, like a lot of
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: male officers, you'll look at this body cam footage of
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: like people who've been murdered and you see the varied
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: responses from institutions and And more often than not, it's
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: they're taking the man's side. They're like, oh, yeah, this
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: bitch is crazy. Look at her. Blah, blah, blah.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking about that. The murder of that young girl,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: the blonde girl. I can't remember her name.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Gabby Petito.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Petito.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: When they had the guy who killed her, they put
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: him in a domestic violence safe house. And it's like, y'all. Right.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: So this is where institutional Darvo then comes in, because
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I think officers were all too happy. to look at
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Taylor and to say, oh, yeah, bitches be crazy.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Institutionalized Darvo is a term that I never understood. I
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: never knew it existed. It makes so much sense. And
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: it makes me feel like we women need to rise
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: up and get in positions of authority.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we fucking do. So let's take a moment from
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: this podcast to say, ladies, we're fucking taking over this shit.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Vote volunteer, get involved, because women need.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: To run this shit. Go to the police academy.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, we need to at all levels, we need
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: to take these. Never mind. I should bite my tongue.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: But we know what I'm saying. These terrible, awful humans
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: that are they're not even humans. They're demons that are
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: in powers of position trying to make it easier for abusers.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. You know, it's just. Yeah. Things need to
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: change on the institutional level because it really is. It's disgusting.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: It's too widespread and it's gone on for way too long.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: This shit's over.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Well, I hope the best for Taylor. I hope the
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: best for Dakota for the sake of his child. And
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: I can't imagine them having to continue to be in
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: each other's lives as they co-parent this child. Because the
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: best thing that ever happened to them was a judge saying,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: this situation is insane. You guys cannot be near each other.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: And the law needed to get involved. Like, it was
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: so bad, the law needs to separate them. So when
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: this restraining order lifts, God forbid, it should be in
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: place forever, to be honest with you.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: I don't know how, you know, they're going to ever
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: get to the other side of this, but I really
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: hope that Taylor can. Is there like a rehab for
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: situations like this?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: So here's what I want to say. For sex and
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: love addiction, There is something called Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: S-L-A-A dot com. There is a whole 12-step community. And listen,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: the 12-step program isn't for everybody. So this is just
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: one thing I'm going to suggest.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: There's a whole community of people treating this issue. Typically
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: in rehabs, they will have some form of sex and
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: love addiction therapy because it's very common in people who
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: use substances. And so the resource that I want to
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: give about that, because I do have some resources here.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: So for domestic violence, please know that there's a couple
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: of ways to get help. The hotline.org. The number is 1-800-799-SAFE, S-A-F-E.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Or you can text START to 88788. Now, that sex
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: and love addiction 12-step program, you can go to S-L-A-A-F-W-S.org.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: or just Google Sex and Love Addiction Anonymous, you can
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: find online meetings, in-person meetings, resources, lots of really good
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: stuff on that website. And there are ways to heal
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: and recover from this for sure. And then the other
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: thing I want to note is that the 988 Lifeline,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: so it's lifeline.org, and you can text 988. And this
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: is for suicidal ideation and things like that. And then
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: SAMHSA's helpline, which is for substance abuse, that is 800-662-HELP. Again,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: 800-662-HELP or SAMHSA, S-A-M-H-S-A dot gov. And the reason why
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I share these resources, because the message is that we
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: all deserve love. We all deserve to be happy. We
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: all deserve to be free from like trauma isn't our fault,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: but it is our responsibility to fix. Taylor deserves a
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: better life. Her kids deserve a better life. And so
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: my message really is one of hope and healing in that.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Do I have hope for Dakota? No, because that sort
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: of pathology, there's not either have empathy or you don't. Yeah.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: And if you don't, that's, you know, There's not a
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: lot you're going to do for him, but I'm saying
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: for Taylor and for all the other people listening to this,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: who this has really resonated with them, the end message
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: is that help is available, recovery is possible, and happiness
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: can be in our hands again after these situations. It's
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: really important.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing those resources. Are you going to put
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: them in the description?
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, great.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Yes, I will.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: Well, before we wrap it up, can we touch on just,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: a couple other people in this cast.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: As you know, Taylor, and this is like really indicative
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: of the situation, right? Is that the ladies have a
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: lot of other stuff going on, but it's really all
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: about Taylor and Dakota. And I think this is a
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: good example of maybe why some of the ladies are frustrated.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just evidenced by this podcast and I
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: get it. But one of two really important.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Right. Do we have time to talk about anyone else?
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: No, no. Yeah.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are very serious, valid issues that are also
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: going to help people, you know, I think.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Tremendous, yeah.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So the one thing that really stood out to me
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: was when Layla admitted that she was in recovery from
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: an eating disorder. She was using GLP-1s as I call
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: it medically assisted anorexia because that's what it is. And
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I love that she talked about it. And she talked
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: about the difference from going to being malnourished to being
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: well-fed and gaining some weight. And I think this is
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the hardest thing for people who are in recovery from
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: disordered eating. The weight gain is very triggering, but it's
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: necessary because the goal is health and feeding our body
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: and nourishing our body. And so I love that she
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: just was honest about it, number one, and number two,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: talked about it because I think that will help a
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: lot of people. I think, unfortunately, in this housewives arena
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: in particular, there's a lot of women who use these
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: meds as medically-assisted anorexia, and it's very concerning. It is.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: It's very concerning.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Very, and I love that she was open about it
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: and her friends were there for her.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: In season five, she looks so beautiful. You can tell
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: that she's working on it.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, gorgeous.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And my heart broke for her when it came to Mason. Oh,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: my God.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: What a douche.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: Hey, can we talk about desire for a minute? Because
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: I feel like nobody tells you that at a certain
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: point in life, getting in the mood sometimes requires your
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: brain to first shut down approximately 47 other tabs. Did
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: I answer that email? What does my daughter need for
• 19:24
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• 19:26
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• 19:28
  Speaker 3: And somewhere underneath all of that is your libido going, hey,
• 19:31
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• 19:34
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• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Hi there.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: We need to talk about boobs again, okay? Because if
• 23:47
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• 23:50
  Speaker 3: I love Honey Love. And I have to tell you
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• 23:57
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• 24:24
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• 24:26
  Speaker 3: And listen, I want comfort, but I also want my
• 24:28
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• 24:32
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• 24:52
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• 24:58
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• 25:10
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• 25:16
  Speaker 3: love about Honeylove. They are a female-founded company, and you
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• 26:19
  Speaker 3: you know I've been talking about one skin for a
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• 26:26
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• 26:35
  Speaker 3: I love a gorgeous jar of moisturizer as much as
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  Speaker 1: Is it doing anything?
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Or am I just paying $ 150 for nice packaging and
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  Speaker 3: code DRAMA. Now, Michaela is, she sure doesn't shy away
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: from a gosh darn thing. When she sat across the
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: table from Mason in New York and said, hey, by
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: the way, thanks.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: For the salt.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Also, Michaela is our girl and we know we really
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: want her to be treated the best way possible. And
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: I don't even know how she said it, but to
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: just say that directly to.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Him blew my mind. And was it emasculating?
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Maybe.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Was it a little?
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Was it humiliating to do on camera? Sure. But necessary, important, and.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Fuck him.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Because like Mason is treating Layla like this on camera
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: before our very eyes. So if you're going to do that,
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: then We're going to have to call you out on it.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: And I was very glad.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: And then for Layla to be so brave later on
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: that night to have that conversation with him was so profound.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: You could see her struggle through doing exactly what you
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: were saying earlier, which is using the left hand to
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: write or whatever, to try to like, you know, make
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: a new pathway through the snow and say, I... like,
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: really want to make sure that, you know, you are also,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: you know, it was clumsy.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: It was perfect. And he didn't know what to say.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Well, again, that's because he can't he couldn't accept the feedback. So, again,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: we see these men who it's like she's first of all,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: everyone get yourself a friend like Michaela, because Michaela is
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: going to do the stuff that needs to be done.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: She's going to say the hard things. She's going to.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: acknowledge the tough stuff. She's going to call you on
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: your shit. And I practice Michaela's method of friendship where
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: it's like, you want to be a friend. You got
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: to be real. We got to we're talking real shit here.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So I think I love Michaela for that reason. And
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's why she is very grounded. And here's
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: the thing. Recovering from sexual abuse, you learn you're not
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: you never keep your mouth shut again. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: What I noticed is that when people are recovering from
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: sexual abuse and they share it, you can't stop sharing
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: because it's open and you're like, I'm never silencing myself again.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: So that's where I think Michaela is coming from. And yeah,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: she's badass and I fucking love her. But when Layla
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: was talking to him, you could tell his ego was
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: so bruised that he couldn't even acknowledge what she was saying.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: And I wrote in my notes, I'm like, dear God,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: please tell me that they broke up. And then I
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, OK, they did. Because. You can't have
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: a relationship with someone who is unwilling to hear feedback,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: to understand the ways that they've hurt you and to
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: acknowledge their own stuff. Like literally you cannot have a
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: long-term relationship like that. So I think Layla is another
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: example of someone who honestly didn't get the love that
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: she needed. She was told she's not enough. And now
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: it's a false belief that she carries with her. And
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: because she believes that she's not enough, She is afraid
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Mason will leave her, not realizing, like, good, get out, bye.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: But she's so afraid of being alone that she just, like,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: buys people's love. And that's kind of what we were
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: talking about at the top of the episode, right? When
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: we don't get the love we need, we stop loving ourselves,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: and then that impacts our relationship. So I am very
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: happy to see that she stepped out with a woman
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: in terms of, like, happiness looks great on you, boo.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I'm so relieved for her.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: So relieved and so happy. And I think she is
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: well on her way to finding out who is Layla.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: And Layla is an amazing human being. She's so kind.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: She's so loving. She's open. She's vulnerable. I love her
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: on the show.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Me too.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: And talk about a slow burn because it's like we
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: couldn't even really dig into Layla for so long because
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: of the other major issues.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Going on with so many of the other women.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Right. Most specifically Taylor that you couldn't really scratch a
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: little most of the surface. But but by gosh, you know,
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: it seems like she's doing really well. And for Mason
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: to be the one to break up with her had
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: to have been like.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing you could tell. So when Layla was
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: crying to who was it that came over with her?
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I forget. She was crying.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: To one of the ladies. That was a trauma cry, too.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: She was like, I have done everything to love people
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: so that I wouldn't be abandoned and look where I am.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: So remember, let's circle back to the beginning of this conversation.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: We will recreate relational patterns that we do not address.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: And so she had this fear of abandonment. She chose
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: someone who couldn't meet her needs at all. And then
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: he did end up abandoning her. So I argue that
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: it's a good learning experience for her because again, we're
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: not going to change until we're in too much pain.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: And we're like, I can't do this anymore. So I
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: hope that was enough for her to realize that she's
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: a fucking rock star.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: And she deserves all the love in the world. And,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: you know, I hope she's finally getting it.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. Me too.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: You had said it's, you know, once you recover from
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: sexual abuse, you learn to never keep your mouth shut.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: You know, you are never going to be silent again.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: I think that's such a profound enlightenment and a gift, really,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: from that. And to know that Michaela and Macy both
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: have had SA in their past.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: And for Taylor to just flippantly say that in that
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: fight was it was yeah, it was like Darvo, right?
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: It was right. She she smelled like the garbage that
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: she was hanging around in that moment, because I don't
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: think that's really her. And it was gross. And I'm
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: glad that she did apologize after because she knew it
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: was gross. She knew it was gross and it was
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: not OK. Because the worst thing we can do is
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: when we're friends with someone and we know their hot
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: button issues and then we weaponize it and throw that
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: in their face. which again, Taylor was subject to a
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: lot of that with Dakota and probably with her family,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I would imagine. That's what starts to happen. It's actually called,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: so it's a defense mechanism. It's called displacement. So displacement
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: is where you're having a hard time, but you feel
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: like you can't express it appropriately. So you take it
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: out like the old analogy is that you go to work,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: your boss chews you out, you come home and you
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: kick the dog. It's not, and I know I'm laughing
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: because it's not funny, but that's, It's like taking your
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: anger and frustration out on those people closest to you
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: who are safe people.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: So that's called displacement, not projection?
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Well, no, it's also projection. So in that scene, Taylor
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: was literally doing all the defense mechanisms. There was projection.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: There was displacement. There was deflecting by saying, you know,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: when she talks about how like you go back to
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: the past and... you know, brings up these issues of
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Michaela or brings up these issues for Macy. She's distracting.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: She knows what she's doing. She's throwing everything at the
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: wall to see what sticks because she can't look at
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: her own stuff.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Right. I was honestly shocked that she didn't bring up
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: the issues between Michaela and Chase.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, Jace. It's hard to these these Utah names,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: they always get me.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: But she was dancing around that and she wanted to
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: do it. And I'm so glad she didn't. Obviously, she
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: didn't get out of that scot-free. She said some extremely
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: hurtful things. But I do want to pivot into Michaela
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: and Jace because they are separated. I think that they're
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: like going to get a divorce. I think that's what's happening.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: I'm not exactly sure, but I know that they're separated
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: But they weren't on season five, right? That's what I
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: was confused about. So they weren't on season five, but
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: then after season five wrapped, that's when they separated?
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: That's correct. Okay, gotcha. That's correct.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: So I just, I feel for Michaela. I feel for Jace.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: And when you have SA in your past and then
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: you have issues with intimacy, I... I can't imagine how
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: you get over that. Like, I don't know how you
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: live your life in. Please tell me, like, how do
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: you do that? And, you know, what do you think
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: about their marriage and their situation? They have a new baby.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: I think it's sad because I know there's a huge
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: age gap, right, between Michaela and Jace. Like, Wasn't she
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: very young, like 16 or something when they started dating
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: and he was in his 20s? Am I right about that?
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: I think you are right. Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: So I think that dynamic is also really interesting. I
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: think my here's my message is that finding intimacy with
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: a trusted partner after sexual abuse, after processing sexual abuse,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: it's challenging, but good things are possible. But again, it's
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: like using your left hand and kind of acting opposite.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: It starts with finding a safe partner. And perhaps my
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: guess would be if they're separated and she's healing from
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: this essay that he may not be a safe person
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: for her. I don't know. These are just assumptions that
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: I'm making. But you really have to practice like a
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: safe and healthy intimacy with a partner who understands what
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: you're dealing with. who is open to feedback and to
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: going at your pace and addressing the issues and talking
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: about it and things like that. So there is hope,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: there for sure is recovery, but it is a very,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: very challenging road for sure. Because of physiological, like your
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: body doesn't know the difference sometimes between the good intimacy
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: or the SA and the sensations can feel similar. And
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: so For that reason, it can be very physiologically triggering.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine. They actually did.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: I think at the very end, they did get separated
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: like of season five, because I remember her saying something
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: along the lines of it's it's important for me to
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: like focus on my health right now and work on
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: my health in order to like be better because she
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: has she's chronically ill. Like she has skin condition.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: It was from so I looked this up before we podcasted.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: It was from prolonged toxic mold exposure. It's called something.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Hold on. Let me find it.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, C.I.S. Hold on.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. C-I-R-S. Which comes from long term toxic mold exposure.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: But you can see physically like when you have real
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: medical issues, but you have your processing S.A., you're dealing
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: with the stuff in your friend group, like all these
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: things are going to be triggers that are going to
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: worsen the very real illness. So that's why I thought
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: it was interesting, too. We see a lot of our
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: skin flare ups in response to really stressful events and
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: things like that. And it does help you learn, oh,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: I need to take care of myself because if we
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: don't attend to ourselves, our body is going to be like.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Hey, here I am.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Attend to me now or I'm going to make a
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: mandatory thing later. And so I.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Think they are still there's definitely separated. I think they're
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: still trying to work. on their marriage. So I think
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: that's where they're at. Yeah.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And, you know, listen, only I think the message to
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: of all this is that none of us know what
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: happens behind closed doors in a relationship. And sometimes we'd
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: be really shocked to know either how different people can be.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: But I think that life is too short to be
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: in unhappy situations that don't serve us. So I'm grateful
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: that because it's scary to think about restructuring your whole family.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: And I didn't realize they have four kids.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they have a lot of kids. And again, in
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: the LDS church, I know it's like you're not in
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: good standing if you free yourself from a bad relationship,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: which is a whole other fuckery that I can't even
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: deal with. But I just hope they all are able
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: to get the love and support that they need. And
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I don't think being on TV is good for Taylor,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: if I'm being honest.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Taylor or Michaela? Taylor.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Taylor. Oh, okay. I think that all the other women... Like,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: I would almost love to see what it looked like
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: without her, just for the simple fact of.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I think you'll get your wish. I don't think
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: that they're going to have her back on, do you?
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Honestly, you just don't know with reality TV, because I'm
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: sure it'll make a lot of money. You know, who's
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: in charge of these decisions? Who's making the money? Does
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: someone need another beach house? I don't know, Amy.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: You know what? You know what's interesting?
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: I didn't realize this until, like, several episodes in on
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: season five, but the... the opening credits, Taylor is not
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: in a lineup with them. Like she's, she's just shown like,
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: kind of like moving through the desert, you know, the
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: Egyptian desert, um, as they have them, but they don't
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: have her in the actual main cast. So I think
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: that happened, you know, when they stopped production, they were like,
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: we can't put you, you know, in the cast, even
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: though the entire season is about her.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Well, right, right. And so I would love to see
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: her step away, get the help that she needs and
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: like come back, you know, if you're, because I think
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: that could be an immensely helpful storyline, how you bring
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: yourself back from the brink of destruction. I would love
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: to see her do that. But I think that she
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: is so seeking love and attention that I think she
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: mistakes the fans support as like, the love and attention
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: that she needs. But, you know, these parasocial relationships, as
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: we know, they're not, they're not real, you know? So
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I think that she needs to learn how to, to
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: get her own value and self-worth. And I would love
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: to see all these other ladies. They have very interesting storylines, very,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: really super relevant things going on. Oh, and you know what,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: before we end, there was one really interesting observation that
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I had about Jen.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to talk about Jen too. I do. Okay,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: go ahead.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: So one interesting observation that I had about Jen, it
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: just hit me like a ton of bricks as I
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: was watching the final episode.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Jen definitely has like a victim complex and she's someone
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: who has a really hard time owning and being accountable
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: for her stuff. And so her goals shift depending on
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: where she is in the friend group. Of mom talk. Wow.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: For example, she was joking with Zach about, oh, well,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I want to be on Sports Illustrated and I want to,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: you know, do all these things and like be empowered.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: And then the second that she's out of favor with
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: mom talk, what did she run back to? Well, faith
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: and the church.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: So you asked your husband to step away from the church.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: He did.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: And now you want to have a baby blessing because
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: you didn't get the job, the one job that you
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: went out for, the one acting job. And now because
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Whitney and you are have had a falling out and
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: your only ally there is really Taylor. Now she's going
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: back to, well, maybe let's do a baby blessing. And
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: here's the this is the only time you're ever going
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: to hear me say I feel bad for Zach. Because
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: she moves the goalposts so often that it legitimately is
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: confusing to him.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Because it's dependent upon her moods.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: 100%. I was like, oh, my God, what is she
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: talking about?
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: What is she doing?
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Zach is really taking this a lot better than I would.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: And then for her to be like, I made an
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: appointment for you with the bishop, I would have lost
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: my mind.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Amy, I'm like, could you imagine if he would have
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: done that to her?
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: No.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Could you imagine?
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: No.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: And then to follow it up.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: With like, you know, you're showing up, but just barely
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: or like you're showing up.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, he just spent four months.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: Like, I don't know what this guy can do to
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: prove anything to you or anyone. Like nothing is good
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: enough for her, it seems.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: That's the problem. Nothing is good enough for her. And
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: that's why her relationships suffer. This man, to Zach's credit,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: he changed his whole personality and approach for her. And
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: for her to say that because she was disappointed that
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: she didn't get the one job. Here's what a healthy
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: person would say, right? Oh, I didn't get the job.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I'm really disappointed. But for her, her ego is kind
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: of fragile. So it's Zach's fault. Well, you don't support me.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: And you said you would have divorced me. So again,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: blame shifting, putting the blame on him as if like
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: maybe she didn't get it because somehow it was like
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: his fault. She was worried about this or that. But
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: that's like, girl. You're a mom. You have to start
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: being a big put those big girl pants on and
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: stop confusing everybody around you because your goals are led
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: by your feelings in the moment. That's what that's wild.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: She reminds me of my nine year old who's like
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: doesn't know what she wants to be for Halloween. She
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: switches it every week.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: That's what she's reminding me of. And then I have
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: to remember that she is the youngest of the bunch
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: and she's had no time to figure out what she wants,
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: who she is, or what she is even doing. That's
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: why I think she's in this situation. She's trying to
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: do the things that you would normally do as a
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: 24-year-old girl, young woman. But instead, she has had child
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: after child after child and has been on this reality show,
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: then thrust into, you know, fame with a very false
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: expectation of gaining more star power because she's now seen
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Whitney go on the exact, have the same path as her.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: And now Whitney has now won and now is on
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: Broadway and is now acting. It's like now she thinks
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: that she's entitled to that too, that that should also
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: be her trajectory. When in fact, that's not, that's what,
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: a child would do. They would look at another person
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: and go, oh, that's that's what I should have because
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: they did it, too.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Right. Everyone's the same.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Doesn't like she's very emotionally immature.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: She's very emotionally immature. And I think to that point,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: she's very jealous of Whitney. Yeah. And I think she's
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: jealous of all the women who get more traction or
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: have bigger followings, which, again, the danger of, you know,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: being told by a church like, you need to start
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: a family and like procreate. Someone on the show had
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: a statement about like, oh, it was Michaela's, no, Macy's sister.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: We're put on earth to procreate and repopulate the planet
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: or something like that. And I was like, well, when
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: we're telling women that what they're not getting to do
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: is get a sense of autonomy and understanding about who
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: they are.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: So when you're mothering children and, you know, make a
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: better planet. Right.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: But when you're raising children and you haven't figured your
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: own stuff out yet, you kind of get this like
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: delayed adolescence in a sense where it's like you're famous,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: you're on TV, but you're feeling really left out and
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: you're feeling like you're not getting the things you should
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: be getting. So yeah, Jen's a tough one for me.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: Me too. This season was like, that's a no for me, dog.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm like, sorry, I'm out.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: For those reasons, I'm out, you know.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: Right. So and I feel bad because I am so
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: much older than her. So it's difficult to you know,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: have judgment on such a young person. I can't imagine
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: having all those kids and being in the situation like
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: that when I was 24. Like, there's just no way.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: So I give her space for making errors, but it's
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: hard to not be like, oh, my God.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, here's the thing. If this behavior continues into
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: her 40s, it's going to be a problem and she's
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: going to be very lonely. But do I hope that
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: she reflects on some of this? Sure. Yes. Because, again,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think she's a bad person, but she does
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: need to grow and mature. And, you know, and so
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: my hope is that she does that for her and
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: her kids.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: So.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, Amy.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: This was a marathon, lady. I know it really was.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: It really, really was. But I mean, it's a it's
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: a never ending well.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Truly. To get to put we just keep bringing our
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: bucket down and scooping up more, you know. I know.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: It's like it's never ending. Well, I'm so glad that
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: we got to do this. And this is like this
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: feeds me. So I feel like, yes, what a great podcast.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed this.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: So thank you for doing all the hard work, Melissa.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: No, you too. I mean, you are the one like
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: you're doing so many shows. You're following all this stuff.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Like I always love having these conversations with you because
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, I got a lot of really
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: great feedback from the last podcast we did when you
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: shared your experience with postpartum anxiety. And I just think
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: like you being brave enough to share things really helps people.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: So don't go putting all this on me because you
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: are very important and special and helpful. And so I just,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: I love talking to you about these things because, you know,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: you have so much empathy and understanding.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: And I have curiosity, you know, I'm so curious at
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: what makes these people tick. So to hear, you know,
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: feedback and opinion and insight is so helpful for me.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: It's helpful for all of us. And it gives, this
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: gives me a space to get out of my head too. So,
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you. You know, thank you to Amy and the
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Darling Bishes and the Drama Darlings and the Bishes in general. So, yeah.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: So for today, you know, thanks so much for listening.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: And of course, Amy, why don't you tell everybody where
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: they can find you?
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can get all my episodes, the free ones
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: here on The Public. That's three times a week, Drama Darling.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: And then also, if you want ad-free plus video and
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: bonus episodes and other content, please head on over to patreon.com
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: slash drama darling.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, your Patreon is lit. You do so many great things.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: So you can find this podcast anywhere that it's available.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Now that I am back, baby, for season eight, I
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: am doing two free podcasts a week that post everywhere.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: And then for, you know, bonus content, ad-free, video with
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: subtitles for accessibility, and Zooms and all these other fun things.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: You can also check me out on patreon.com backslash yourbishtherapist.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: So please check us out. And we thank you so
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: much for listening.
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Bye, everybody.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Disclaimer. Posts are not intended to diagnose, treat, or provide
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: medical advice. Your Bish Therapist is for entertainment and informational
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: purposes only. The podcast, my opinions, and posts are my
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: own and not associated with past or present employers, any organizations,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Bravo TV, Greyheart Productions, or any other television network. The
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: information in YBT Podcast and on its social media is
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: provided for general informational purposes only and is not intended
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: to diagnose or treat. Please do not act or refrain
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: from acting based on anything you read, see, or hear
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: on YBT Podcast or associated social media. Communicating with YBT
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: via email and or social media does not form a
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: therapeutic alliance. Melissa, operator of YBT, is unable to provide
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: any therapeutic advice, treatment, or feedback.